@@mdd4296They were under Imperial rule since Tiber Septim started his conquest, and they didn't gave a sh*t about his worship, until TESV. Even in Oblivion priests of Talos complained that Nords prefered their own gods over Talos. By the time of Skyrim (200 years later), only Froki seems to worship old pantheon. Plenty of npcs shout: Shor have mercy on you! and so on, but not once they mention Kyne or Stuhn or Tsun. Only priest that mentions Kyne as deity is Dinya Balu from Riften, a dunmer, ironically.
@@mdd4296 In a typical fantasy world in eternal medieval stasis, suddenly the Nords have these revolutionary social changes in only two centuries. And all in service of making the lore less interesting at that.
@@grzegorzflorek5623 I agree and Disagree, since Nords in Skyrim are heavily inspired by the Northman (vikings) we can run some parallels between the two. You see vikings first came in contact with the Christian Saxons in the year 789 and by the end of the Viking period, around 1050, most Vikings were Christians. THAT ONLY TOOK 261 YEARS FOR VIKINGS TO CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY. Now lets look at the nords of skyrim, they came in contact with the Nedic people THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, not only that... but the nords and the nedes have made alliances in the past before (saxons and vikings were mostly at war) sure nedes and nords might have had small disagreements but nothing too major. Alessia is one major character that solidified their alliance and made it stronger as they went to war with the Ayleids together... making a nord conversion something that IS GOING TO HAPPEN THE MOST UNREALISTIC PART is HOW LONG NORDS TOOK TO CONVERT... they should have been more imperial HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO... them maintaining their religion and culture for that long is UNREALISTIC... not only that but almost every major human empire of tamriel ( Allesian Empire, Ramen Dynasty, Septim Dynasty) has had Nords play a huge factor in the rising of these empires giving nords more reasons to convert to the alessian pantheon so to summarize, unlike the vikings the nords had BETTER REASONS to convert and become more imperial than the vikings had when they converted to saxon society and way of life... so it all comes down to what you think is important realism or fantasy because nords maintaining their old way of life while being in close connection with the imperials is not going to happen, its simply not realistic... though granted it is a fantasy genre so......
Sovngarde isnt a heaven like we think of it. Its more similar to realms of Oblivion, its just a different plane of existence, an Aedric one instead of a Daedric one. The gods just bring peoples souls to their realms as rewards (or in the case of Daedric realms, sometimes punishments). Elder Scrolls cosmology is crazy.
30:37 "realistically speaking imperials are a no brainer option for tamriel's safety and longevity in mind" this line only makes sense if you ignore the dragonborn. realistically the DB can solo armies. if you add his dragons, guild members, daedric artifacts, etc it becomes even easier. he is talos 2.0.
It's also ignoring that the empire, as the bottom they are. Gives more free passes for the Thalmor than Stormcloak would. Not to mention ignoring that the emperor's own council hired an assassin (DB questline) to kill him, which shows that they're barely united themselves.
44:45 Common misconception about life expectancy was that people actually got only as old as the average. That low average was caused by high infant mortality rates. If you lived past childhood you could easily become 70 years old at least, even in the Middle ages., let alone half a century ago...
Regarding the creation of new shouts, the ancient Nords almost certainly made new shouts if the pre-Skyrim lore is to be believed and reconciled with the new lore. As to why we don’t have these shouts, I assumed when the way of the voice became a purely religious practice, the man-made shouts were cast aside and lost to history. So the only shouts the player can find are on word walls made by or in reverence to the dragons. Regarding Delphine’s age, average life expectancy was greatly diminished by infant mortality. There weren’t a bunch of 40-something’s dropping dead.
Generally hygiene was way worse at then, which naturally lowered average age. Of course, infant deaths dropped it by a mile, but not that many people survived till 50+. But as mentioned in the video, Elder Scrolls takes place in a fictional world with magic so.
Alduin wanted to rule the world due to his nature of being a Dragon, he thinks he deserves it. When the DB shows up to kick his ass Alduin finally said fuck it and wanted to end the world which he still supposed to do hes suupose to do that later.
1:35:04 he doesn’t want to devour the world, he wants to rule it like he did all those thousands of years ago. Thats part of the problem, he’s supposed to end the current Kalpa but won’t.
To me the issue with Skyrim is it promises more than it delivers, and whenever asked they just blame it on the engine, morrowind and oblivion delivered expansive yet deep and immersive worlds, and within skyrim there’s mentions of white run being this gigantic city more akin to minas tirith than the smaller edoras it seems in gameplay, which feels like a letdown, same with mortal, giant industrial city…with 6 buildings. It’s all tell don’t show with Skyrim, which is a shame, because the bits where it shows instead of telling: music, the skybox, etc, are absolutely fabulous
Ironically, if you want a huge Whiterun, play Arena. Cities in that game are massive...basic sure, but they packed a lot of city scape in it and even managed to make each province/country have different looks to their cities for the most part. But yeah, it's always in the lore that we get these big cities, and NPC act like it while all we see is a street or two. Cities smaller than some small shopping malls. I understand that larger takes longer to make, but games have done it before. I don't necessarily need a realistic city size, but big enough to make it feel for the sake of the game at least half way believable.
Totally agree! I still play it now, but god is the writing terrible. The more I play, the more ridiculous I see the writing and situations you're put in are. However, the fun of this game is what you can make of it, and there is so much variety with mods and added content that make the game worth playing 10+ years later.
If it's so eternal how come I can't make it 30 minutes into a playthrough before realising I could just be having more fun playing morrowind? What's eternal about a unfinished game with 4 factions and no player choice? Skyrim is a one and done game, and it wasn't that good the first time
True, but that makes me only hope that Bathesta will do better in ES6 if they see the critisism. After all I adore the series and only hope for the next game in the series to be the best it can be. Not that I have much fate in modern Bathesta, but I can hope :3
In the way I understood it, the Dragonborn didn’t need a dragon soul to learn Dragon Rend because it’s a human made shout. As Alduin said, Dragon Rend is an abomination.
Ah yes, Morrowind's great writing. You might be the choosen one, no you're not, yes you are, no you're not, maybe, yes you are, maybe, Lady Azura manipulated everything to fall in place, or did she?
You try to point and laugh, but Morrowind has the most competently written story and lore of any of Bugthesda dogshit products. Your argument is a lazy whataboutism and you will cease it immediately.
Azura really said "man, these mortals I keep shoving the fulfill this prophecy to overthrow the Tribunals and worship me again keeps dying, oh? Someone coming from Imperial Prison? They fulfill the first part of the prophecy? I'll give them plot armor and gas light them into thinking they're someone else"
@@lamedrawings I like that. You aren't born to fullfil the prophecy, you are pushed and tempted towards it, you have to actively fullfil it in order to become the Nerevarine. It is a fresh take.
The interesting thing about Skyrim is that it has an incredibly vast evolution of story building. It shows how "modern" Nords are completely different than ancient Nords in almost all cultural and social aspects, which is natural for any peoples as times and technologies change. Skyrim's history surrounding its, social and political cultures mirror real world topics in so many ways.
I do love skyrim and despite its flaws I can't help but go back to it. But the civil war is one of my pet peeves about the game (along with the silliness of being the head of every major guild not being important lol) - like all the forts on the hold borders are held by bandits like they should have had more of them held by storm cloaks and imperials or Hold guards (which at least would explain the part where people say the jarls are stretched thin)
That argument about the thalmor 56:10, not really benefitting from the dragon resurgence, is not valid. According to the lore, the purpose of the thalmor is to destroy the world because they believe they are gods and tamriel is their prison. They do not want to conquer. What they want is to have access to the throat of the world and to the red mountain, because according to the legend, below them are some stones that keep tamriel in place and if they remove them the world will cease to exist and they (the thalmor) will be reborn as gods or so they think. So yes, Jurassic park Tamriel is perfectly compatible with their plan
my most recent play through I found esbern on the 30th of frost fall and walked all the way back to Riverwood just so they could be reunited on that date
On paarathurnax turning around and taking over after you die, there is good evidence that other dragons are hiding around the world as well. Any other them could try, but I think the dragons know trying to rule humans is not worth the effort or risk.
It definitely isn't especially in a world where The Last Dragonborn is alive. But as mentioned in the video, without Alduin, no dragon can be resurrected anyway so any dragon would be very vulnerable to regular humans like let's say the Blades. Expect us to get a dragon scholar in TES6 who is a friendly NPC in a random sidequest.
About Delphine - I find it plausible she could have just gotten the horn like 5 years prior to the dragon born's return or maybe at any point within the last few years - knowing to grab it because after learning of the location of the horn - predicting the grey beards would send a Dragon born there. A sort of "preemptive trap" to catch a upcoming dragon born. How'd she get through the trap? Tricking it perhaps? That's not out of the realm of possibility, maybe setting up decoys or demos to lift up the gates. After getting the horn and back, she merely waits and studies the dragon burial mounds. I don't think it is out of the realm of speculation / plausibility for this all to happen and think it is strange people question it that intensely lol
Same. My headcanon has her tailing several "false" Dragonborn who don't make it the whole way & spiriting it out the side exit eventually, maybe with the help of a Farengir type, then years of having that letter there, having the horn in the inn, seeing more false Dragonborns...I think it explains so much of her jadedness & her surprise when you do come along & are actually The Dude.
Maybe im giving the main character too much credit, but I think the dragon born being on the side of either the empire or stormcloacks could severly help them in the long run if they battle the Thalmor. If hammerfell could keep the Thalmor at bay. The nords with ulfric and the dragonborn on their side could as well.
I agree, it is little silly. But I feel like this is more to do with Bethesda simply not implementing any radical changes to Windhelm, due to either lack of interest from their part or lack of development time (civil war itself is infamously half baked and rushed in every aspect). Even if you win the civil war (either side), nothing really changes. It is mostly just dialogue/character role swaps at best.
There is one singular case where I am intrigued by Skyrim, SorcerorDave's recent playthrough. He plays the Nerevarine of his 100+ hour long Morrowind playthrough, the old aged and vindictive man who was cast down from power in Cyrodil before he became the archmagister of Telvannia, the leader of the Morag Tong and the Nerevarine Reborn. And what inspired it was a single line in Morrowind's prophecies, that calls the Nerevarine "Dragonborn".
thank you for your time and effort as this is a really well done video! im gonna enjoy watching this while i bunker down for the night, play my modded skyrim while I hear your thoughts, thank you a ton for this video man! hope the best for this channel I just subscribed
@alexwright5215 The assumption is that Imperials were already stationed with some Stormcloak prisoners at Helgen's Keep and of course, there were potentially hundreds of Stormcloaks that were captured in an ambush. But yeah, there is certainly more of them visible at the keep. However, that isn't really that big of a deal IMO when it comes to plot consistency, as Skyrim's size is already like 30x smaller (if not more) to it's actual canon size due to hardware limitations of PS3 and Xbox 360.
I view Skyrim as akin to how Historical Movie Epics were made in the past. Nearly all movie epics were shot with more detailed lore and connections to past events but these end up being cut because the mainstream audience finds them tedious and boring and a summarized and sterilized version will do just fine. There are endless amounts of tedious lore that could be thrown into skyrim but the average new player to elder scrolls, which is going to be most people, aren't going to care. They care about the archetypes...Roman Imperial, German Nord, Alien Elf. Stubborn nord rebel against Empire because alien elf is given too much power and there are too many immigrants in their land. The actual lore is more deep but doesn't need to be to push the story along. This is a sandbox game with some completionist motivations...story is actually pretty good in that sense.
What I find crazy is that you are forced to kill Paarthurnax otherwise you cannot continue with the mission. It could have been managed in a number of ways.
Regarding the Civil War, an overwhelming majority of the internet sides with the Imperials. Im probably one of the few who think siding with the Stormcloaks is the "right" choice.
I am also part of that minority. I am not a contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but alas I am a minority on a few political issues...................
I always saw them as rightful, yet my opinion tweaked a bit after realising the racism. It makes it harder to choose whom to side with. One flag? Multiple flags? No flag at all? I'm incluned towards yhe latter, but how do you achieve it within the Skyrimverse?
A better storyline would involve the Thalmor using dragons (by siding with Alduin) to terrorize Skryim, thus pushing the Empire and the Stormcloaks into an alliance to save the province. Paarthunax would be forced to return to battle and side with the Stormcloak-Empire alliance, turning into an epic war of bloodshed, magic, and dragons. In the end, Alduin dies, the Thalmor are driven out, and the Nords are free to worship Talos again in Skyrim.
first of all Ulfric isn't forcing anyone to live in the grey quarter, that decision was made by Ulfrics predecessor and by the time we get there Windhelm has no empty homes anywhere within city limits and no space to construct more dwellings, so what the hell is he supposed to do other than telling them to make do with what is available? also after one of the nicer houses in Windhelm does become available, Ulfric will happily let any citizen of Windhelm with enough coin purchase that property no matter who it is. Ulfric is also allowing dark elves to purchase farm land outside the city so i really don't get what the problem is.
Dark elves are also slave owning bastards who are probably in general one of the most racist groups and then when they found the body of what is basically Nord Jesus. They perverted it to give 3 people God powers. THEY ALSO WORSHIP DEMONS. All things considered Ulfric is one hell of a reasonable person. TLDR fuck the empire skyrim belongs to the Nords.
"BUT BLONDE MAN RAYCIS", all jokes aside, Stormcloak racism extends about as far as some people shouting mean things and not wanting to let the Thalmor walk over them.
I understand the arguments for going with the storm cloak at the beginning of the game, but the imperial soldier is better armed and armored. Who do you have a better chance of surviving with?
I suspect Hadvar's concern for the child is supposed to sway you a little towards him, too, along with his concern for the PC since he makes it clear he wants you to survive the dragon at least while he still calls you "Prisoner".
I actually really agree with this, especially when Thalmor/A-Dominion is as involved as they are (and no doubt will be a key player in ES6). Or at the very least, it could had played a larger factor in the main quest that we got.
That's completely fine and I am glad you enjoy Skyrim without mods. However, it is unarguably true that mods increase video game's life cycle. Skyrim would not be as popular today if it weren't for mods.
I loved the Blades in _Oblivion._ I despise the Blades in _Skyrim._ I always play with the Paarthurnax Dilemma mod installed so that I, as the Dragonborn, have the ability to put Delphine in her place. After all, the Dragonborn is the one she _claims_ to have sworn allegiance to. So your opinion and decree should, in theory, supercede her own. Even as the acting Grand Master, she should not have the authority to command you, countermand you, or even banish you from Sky Haven Temple, which she wouldn't even have access to herself without _your_ blood! After reminding Delphine who is actually the boss, I bring the three recruits to become Blades. Then I remove her and Esbern's essential status and end their careers... permanently. That way, I roleplay as rebuilding the Blades by myself, in my own image as Dragonborn, without Esbern's and Delphine's corrupting influence. Also, why should Paarthurnax not be left alive? Yes, he committed atrocities under Alduin, but he also is the first of the dragons to rebel against Alduin's domination and assisted humanity in doing likewise. And since then, he has faithfully committed himself to the Way of the Voice (a dragon submitted to a human's teachings!). By implication, then, he has submitted himself primarily to Kyne, a Nordic deity, over and above his own father Akatosh. His very rebellion against-and assistance to humanity in their rebellion against-Alduin is in itself an atonement for his previous atrocities. And his devotion to the Way of the Voice ever since (for literal _millennia_ ) is atonement on top of atonement. If anyone is owed clemency, it's Paarthurnax!
would love to see this kind of in depth explanation for the other big quests and guilds of skyrim as I love the game but also agree, that often the storytelling leaves alot to be desired
Idk it felt like classic not too deep adventure fantasy. I dont want it too complex. Felt like a classic story of old with the classic and iconic creation of Dragonborn and his powers
I haven't yet finished the video, this is more a comment on sjyrim commentary youtube in general: i feel like thise of us still playing Skyrim arent playint it for the gsmeplay or writing any more. Do you buy a blank canvas to look at or to paint?
Of course. Like you said, if they didn't exist, then what's the point of naming the franchise after them? My argument in this video is just to show that the player had to discover an item so rare no one even knows how they work. Without Elder Scroll, you can't use Dragonrend, therefore you cannot hurt Alduin and then Alduin simply wins. End of the story.
@@StorytellerJaeru A sorta counterargument is that it being a Deus Ex Machina is kinda fitting. The Last Dragonborn existing was foretold by the Elder Scrolls. All these coincidences work if you consider that TLD is being placed on this path by Akatosh and fate. He happens to be in the right place at the right time and happens to have all things go right because he is supposed to, and fate and destiny has a confusing existence in TES.
My theory for the start of the game is that there are some scripting errors, which Skyrim is full of really. I think the lore and timeline of the story changed a lot during development. So I think what makes the most sense is that the Imperials captured Ulfric near Darkwater Crossing and then made their way to Pale Pass to reach the Imperial City, but finding the pass blocked off by avalanches they stumbled upon the player character and arrested them there on the spot.
I would imagine that Bethesda had probably planned out something massive for the civil war storyline, which ended up being cut out altogether due to deadlines. This could have impacted the Unbound quest as well as it had to introduce the Civil War quest line and later sync up with Season Unending (if Civil War hasn't been solved by then).
@@StorytellerJaeru Well, I think the timeline of events changed a few times during development. I think that early on the Great War happened much closer to the game's beginning. I mean, consider Ulfric's age and how long ago the war was. He is at his youngest in his late 40's but probably older. No wife, no kids, no family. Has he been a rebel against the Empire for 30 years? How long? The shop owner in Falkreath says he was with the Stormcloaks for years and fought with them... but fought where and against whom? My impression is that Ulfric didn't become an actual rebel until he killed the High King and that started the civil war. Then take "In My Time of Need". I think it is generally agreed upon that Saadia is lying but her lie makes no sense. Neither does what Kematu is saying. Remember; the Redguard's war against the Thalmor ended some 20 years ago or so if I'm not mistake. Close to that. So did people just recently find out that some 25 years ago Saadia helped a city fall? Is she in her 50's too? Kematu says, "The resistance against the Thalmor is alive and well in Hammerfell"... but what are they resisting? The Thalmor withdrew from Hammerfell and that was again, about two decades ago. So what's going on there? It would make MORE sense in both of the cases above if the Great War ended just a few years before the game begin. And/or if Hammerfell was actually still partially under Thalmor control. So for those reasons, I think the lore changed at some point in development and various bits of dialog and other supporting lore didn't get updated to reflect that.
My main nitpick is that Alduin did NOT want to eat the world. That is his purpose, but he decided to abandon his duties and rule over Mundus. When we kill him, we set him back on his proper course to be the true end of the world.
It is an interesting detail for sure, as it does lay a foundation for future games or gives Bethesda a chance to do a full universe wipe whenever they so please. But as an ending to a game, it is underwhelming to say the least. And well, my point about bringing back old villains still stands. It remains to be seen how Bethesda decides to reuse Alduin if they ever choose to go down that path.
Overrated or Overhated? The answer is... yes. Just yes. Look, I'm a huge fan of Skyrim, and despite never playing Morrowind or Oblivion, I don't doubt that the storyline of Skyrim leaves a lot to be desired. I don't see myself really ever going back to "Vanilla" skyrim after mods greatly enhance each playthrough of mine. I won't even touch the countless annoying re-releases. That said, when I see people nowadays jumping on the Bethesda-hate bandwagon and seeing things like "SKYRIM WAS ALWAYS BAD," I just kinda roll my eyes. I can't help but think to myself "it's easy to say that about a game that's well over ten years old by now". Yeah, Bethesda has a lot to be criticized for. Outdated game design. Horrible monetization. A LOT of complacency. I do believe that Todd Howard tends to think big, and deliver small to put it kindly. I think he wants to give us something amazing, but it's unfeeling to stray from the status quo, which hurts his games in the long run. But when people try to apply 2020s standard gaming expectations to a game that came out a decade prior, I just find it kinda stupid.
My two cents: Skyrim has at least one point in its favor (it has others, but this is the main one, in my opinion), which is that it is extremely replayable, a feature that many titles lack, even RPGs. Having said that... the main plot of the game, or the fight against Alduin, is definitely the least interesting of the 3 (dragons, vampires and Miraak), for a few reasons: -our character is elevated to the rank of demigod, and this throws a whole series of discrepancies on the rest of the game. In Oblivion, we were indeed in the emperor's dream, but nevertheless we are normal people, to the point that it is Martin who defeats the threat of the moment. This makes our character free to be the self-made nobody who probably cannot change the balance on the table. In Skyrim we are forced, at least if we choose to embark on the main plot, not only to follow a pre-established path, where there is no choice, but we cannot even choose our path after the defeat of Alduin: if I wanted to make an evil character , interested in power, I couldn't, not only because the plot forces you to play as a hero (and you are labeled as such by everyone), but it doesn't even allow you to kill Ulfric and Tullius and govern Skyrim, based on your chosen race and your own motivations; -secondly, unlike Oblivion (where the opening of the portals actually posed a potential problem not only to the province but to the whole world), in Skyrim the dragons are more of a nuisance...since even the guards can defeat them one.In Oblivion, NPCs did not enter portals (except specific characters, in two-three missions), making it clearer to us that only we players could contain the threat. In Skyrim, dragons are no different from any giant or angry mammoth.
I appreciate your opinion, but based on the facts presented and as someone who plays games with my brain turned on, I can confidently say that you're wrong.
@@theincrediblefella7984 I can accept the fact that a person plays with their brain turned off (just like you can watch a movie without asking too many questions, even with very large logical holes in front of your eyes). However, you need to tell me on which points I would be wrong, at least if you want to start a dialogue.
@@Khan-dell-Orda-d-Argento Are you on crack? TES 5 has no role playing options. No different ways of solving quests. No options for different ways of playing characters. Half of the skills are universal. Every character needs lockpick, enchant, speech, armorer. Are you stealth archer or are you bash man? Those are your only choices. Do you want to kill a bunch of dragur or will you just not do this quest. That's not player choice. It is laughable that you would use role playing and player choice to defend skyrim and clearly shows you've never played an actual rpg
Surely I could had finished it long ago, if it weren't for multiple aspects (mostly irl based), but also stuff like my gpu failing half way through to editing, rewriting the script like 10+ times and my editing software crashing like 5 times into each session (sometimes leading to a lot of lost time) :p
My Headcanon I usally go for when I do a playthrough is I was an arms dealer/collector that got caught while trading arms to the stormcloaks, thus I do the companions for whuthrad and silver swords/red eagle/dawnbreaker as soon as I can etc
Military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan were explained in a lot of detail at the time: techniques like area sweeps, cordons tightening, kettling, operational decapitations/lawn-mowing, mop-ops, etc. --- Skyrim's border has heightened security --- Imperials' military intelligence told them Stormcloaks were amassing in an area --- as you note, there'd be non-Storm cloaks profiteering or making a living in war conditions & camp-followers around them, plus whoever was just randomly around that day --- Tullius planned this ambush as big deal high stakes operation for ending the war So there was a large chaotic battle with a security cordon + sweep/mop operation afterwards, where Imperials were ordered to collect every single stranger in the area & anyone that couldn't be identified + vouched for was on a wagon for Helgen. The US did that every day to innocent people, many ended up dead bc even if they were released bc the civil war meant release after capture was seen as suss, a risk you were an informer or collaborator, so often their lives were taken regardless, by multiple sides, but the initial action of the US marked them for death either way. Me + the Thief from Rorikstead were collateral damage, picked up post-battle. It also solves why they take them to Helgen, not just to spread the word but bc if you're going to break your own laws of war, you don't do it on home soil. A mass beheading doesn't seem to be normal justice in Cyrodiil or Tamriel & I doubt it's a daily Tullius thing. The set up at the beginning feels like the aftermath of a big gamble both sides were taking that day that probably was intended as a one+done for Imperials & the Stormcloaks were obv planning some large operation the Imperials disrupted that day. TL; DR I imagine the initial conditions as a post-battle security mop-up operation within a geographic area an army was trying to clear + hold after a chaotic battle. I was an unlucky passerby with no good excuse for being there bc I'm fleeing my own problems.
That was solid. You're right, people don't break down the main quest much anymore except as perfunctory overview. I like your balance between "it's a game" vs "but it should be written/handled better here". Yes, at some point the prompts are simply inviting you to play more of the game, & it's frustrating when the games or quests are overly nitpicked without remembering gaming is the goal. BGS does enough head-shakingly weak storytelling that people don't have to go hunting for flaws in acceptable mechanics that don't ruin a quality players value. I'd gotten used to people just dunking on BGS mechanics that are not egregious as more critics + reviewers plunder the carcasses of their games that it was really refreshing to hear someone acknowledge "yeah that part wasn't the smoothest but it's here to invite us to this part of the game...so let's talk about WHY THERE'S MASS IN NORD HEAVEN". Your Thu'um is also mighty & as someone with a kick for linguistics/conlangs, your Dragon Tongue new words segment was fascinating. It's hard to bring something new to this table & I like all the familiar stuff still, but this is a welcome new dish. Thanks for cooking for the feast.
The very fact that there are so many mods still being made for skyrim and the incredibly active community for the game even a decade later is a testament against all the haters that froth at the mouth when you even mention the game. Its far from perfect but it endures. Good thing too since we may not live long enough to see tes 6
Also a testament to the engine being able to do way more than they gave us in base Skyrim, while they tried to bluff and say the engine couldn’t manage it
Just did my first playthrough since it came out. The DLC added a ton of quality of life upgrades, and i love this universe..but nothing in this game touches the climax of oblivions main quest.
Tbh even if the main story makes sense in terms of events from A to B to C , it still feels lackluster , which is weird because you go to the afterlife. The only NPC that I remember from the games Is parthanoux and I remember him only bc he asks you the question of what is greater , to be born good or to overcome your nature through trial and become good. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't remember him either.
If you have to remember only 1 thing from Skyrim, remembering the dragon asking you a fundamental question about ethics sounds pretty f-cking awesome to me.
The horn thing isn’t as big of a plot hole as you point it out to be, at least in them using it to name the player Dragonborn. That’s just ceremonial, the Dragonborn already proved to them they’re Dragonborn by absorbing the word of power instantly and being able to use it. No one except a Dragonborn can do that. They may you get the horn because it’s their tradition, it’s not to prove that you’re truly truly Dragonborn. If you take it at surface level yes, but that’s not what’s being shown
It is a ceremonial thing yes, which Greybeards have seemingly done for decades and TLDB has to go through it in order to get the remaining words for Unrelenting Force. "The plot hole" I criticised has to do with whether Greybeards placed the horn there after summoning TLDB or if it has sat there for thousands of years (last time Greybeards did an audible summoning was when Tiber Septim was summoed. This is mentioned in the game). Of course, reasonably, they probably had the horn at their possession till they summoned TLDB, but if not, then literally anyone could had stolen it during the time Septim Empire has existed. Even then, this is seemingly public knowledge, as Delphine mentions how predictable the Greybeards are. Yes, the horn offers no benefit to someone who isn't a dragonborn, but someone could had still stolen the horn BEFORE Delphine took it, especially if realistically speaking, only thing you need to acquire it is: 1. Basic combat knowledge to navigate the ruin and to stay alive. 2. access to Windcaller's tomb's backdoor (which you use to exit his tomb) OR talent in Whirlwind Sprint. 3. Excellent parkour manouvers or a fire resist potion (as no one other than a dragonborn could use word walls and obtain the Become Ethereal shout). If TLDB were to claim that the horn was stolen (like it ironically enough was), Greybeards would not go through with their ceremony and therefore would never allow TLDB to meet Paarthurnax (the quest that lets you talk to Paarthurnax only unlocks after completing the ceremony and finishing the quest "Alduin's Wall"). It isn't really a plot hole per say. I used it in the video to discredit the Greybeards, as I also discredit the Blades. The difference is that Greybeards don't tell you to kill people (or well, dragons). They are just old-fashioned and likely just didn't think that people outside of High Hrothgar would had made research on their way of handling things.
Alduin's role in the world is World Eater. Hes only technically a dragon, hes actually a god whos role is to destroy the current world so a new one can emerge. He just decided to not do that and abuse his powers to rule instead.
Empire. Only because I want the Stormcloaks and the rest of the Imperials to be able to worship Talos, and the only way that's happening is if the Dominion is defeated, and the only way that's happening is if provinces stop rebelling and the Empire gets it's shit back together after some time "trucing."
@ABurntMuffin The Mede Emperor is literally getting assassinated by his own council hiring the Dark Brotherhood even in Skyrim, the Empire is NOT united and cannot even get their own shit together. If your concern are the Thalmor, a Stormcloak victory would not only kick the empire out of Skyrim, but it would also deny Thalmor justiciars free pass going into cities and a lot of regions overall. Meanwhile an Imperial victory if anything gives them even MORE free reign to arrest people left and right.
@@stranger7131 the emperor assassinates himself because he knows he can't do it and he's tired of it all. The very fact that the empire is stuck fighting rebellions is part of the Thalmor plan. With the empire not in skyrim the Thalmor have complete control, the current Nord situation is a joke.
I am enjoying this very much - only halfway through, but i wanna say a "big thank" for not letting the Thalmor (VS Nords) off the hook for their racial supremacy, nor us humans (vs ecology) in the real world. Very based 🎉 I'm subscribed
This is a poor take in my opinion, as Skyrim isn't the only highly rated game that has aged poorly. And the modding aspect has more to do with how easily Bethesda games can be modded and how supportive Bethesda is with modding in general.
@@StorytellerJaeru it's not a poor take it's an observation. Something can be good and people will want to improve upon it because they like it., that's Skyrim.
Of course, you don't seem to recognize the main reason why things are laid out the way they are. Not that "the timing is a little too convenient" for so many things, but that they are are "driven by the plot". It is a game, so unlike a story, things happen in a certain sequence, regardless of how it is "in reality".
This is true, as the game should put gameplay first before the story and if it didn't place the player in these situations, we wouldn't have story in our hands. For instance, it is easy to forgive Alduin for "rescuing" TLDB at Helgen, since that is precisely what sets the game's events in motion. If it weren't for Alduin, none of the quests; minor or major; would not take place. In other words, the player is used as the driving force for these events to take place. That is fine. The problem arises when you build your story to include multiple conveniences that were written in a specific way to reach the ultimate end goal: that being TLDB slaying Alduin. It is just that many events that transpired throughout the story aren't that well executed, even if it offers a coherent and straight-forward story for the player to enjoy. Can the story unfold as told? Absolutely. It is not like Aurbis is stopping the time from turning out smoothly for our heroes. If the plot turns out the way it does, then obviously TLDB will benefit from them (like Alduin's incompetence or finding Thalmor's dossiers). But that requires pieces of the plot puzzle to align in a very specific way, which I am criticising here. For example: - the game has to introduce an idea of the player's character being a Dragonborn -> spawn a dragon near Whiterun right as the player has returned from Bleak Falls Barrow. - the game has to introduce Delphine (and the Blades) to the story -> make her steal the horn of Jurgen Windcaller ahead of time to lure (potential) TLDB to her inn. - the game has to explain Alduin's threat and Dragonborn's role to the story -> Esbern and Sky Haven Temple. - the player needs to hurry and defeat Alduin, but Alduin cannot be harmed when he is flying -> Blackreach Elder Scroll Fetch Quest and the Dragonrend shout. My point here is that all of these could had been written in a more interesting and less convenient way, while maintaining the plot's smoothness and reaching the same final outcome. My original plans for this video included a short rewrite of the game's main quest (which by no means would have been better objectively lol), but I decided to scrap the idea due to time constraints. Perhaps I should had done that to illustrate further on why I think some plot elements were bad choices to go with in my opinion. Sure, if Skyrim (or any other narrative-driven game) was written like a fantasy novel, it would be extremely difficult to turn into a large-scale open-world RPG game. So it is only natural that the story flows without hurdles and has no major plot twists, because it doesn't have to. Skyrim's main quest is one of the several different quests in the game and was likely intended to be experienced first by new players - hence why lacks complexity and nuance that would make it memorable. It is different than games like TLOU that are meant to be experienced like a movie/novel. Bethesda just decided to play it safe and sweet so the final product is what we got. And that's okay. As plenty of other quest lines are way better from writing front and more enjoyable to play (as I mentioned in the video). That doesn't mean that I won't criticise it, even if my complaints can easily come out as petty to some or even contrarian for sake of being contrarian. But yeah, I do somewhat agree with your take. It can be a stretch to compare a video game, fantasy one at that, to real life, because designers of The Elder Scrolls Universe (or any fictional world in general) can set any laws and/or rules that they desire to minimise inconsistencies in their stories. I will keep that in mind going forward. Thank you for your honest feedback.
@@StorytellerJaeru The difference between good conviniences and bad one is character agency. Delphine in her position should have a network of informants. Player can deduce she has an idea of what TLDB is about to do and plan accordingly. In this case, the character excercised their agency to push the plot forward: good. The dragons just coincidentally show up in whiterun because the story need to progress, there is no other rhythm nor reason to it. Worse, dragons only start spawning after that quest. So their whole conquest was on hold until the plot demanded it while they should have hit when the protag was at their weakest. You can definitely "write" (design is a better word really) an open world game narrative that operate like a novel. But the bravery to write the players out of the story or inconvinient them if they refuse to progress it is largely absent from the mainstream market. And game with the ball to do that often make the narrative largely too impersonal.
I have zero use for Ulfric Stormcloak. At best, he's a ruthless opportunist. At worst..I'm not going over *that* ground again. Even if you discard his use of the Voice as a murder weapon as Imperial propaganda, your'e left with an experienced warrior who challenged a wet-behind-the-ears kid barely out of his teens to a duel to steal the High Kingship.
Hope Duke's working on Morrowind. Honestly the more dishes people want to bring for me to feast on this content is fine with me. Plenty of room still on the table. Plenty of chairs to pull up & join the feast.
What made me choose the imperials almost instantly was my first trip into Windhelm, as someone has faced racial discrimination just for being a bit darker than white i couldnt ever back the stormcloakes. I know they arent all racist but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Which is funny, because Dunmer are canonically the second most-racist group in TES. After redguards, who hated elves so much they hate-bonered a God into existence and sunk their own home continent just to genocide the mer who lived there. Seriously, though: the "Stormcloaks r rayciss" argument is a really weak one in the game's context, especially when the alternative is to side with literal colonizers. I know it's a game, but there has to eventually be a level of critical thoughts if you're going to make these blanket statements.
@@chesterstevens8870It isnt imperials getting harrassed by the windhelm city guards though, is it? Trying to excuse the stormcloaks attitudes and actions in anti-colonialism falls apart when the people who did the colonialism are more welcome in Skyrim than OTHER VICTIMS of imperial colonialism. Also the Nords themselves are an expansionist settler state as easily evidenced by their early history and their current behavior in the reach. They are literally colonists themselves. They aren’t anti imperialists. They have no philosophical issue with imperialism and frequently engage with it themselves.
Bethesda games to me have the problem of wanting to be massive scale RPGs but have all the depth and complexity of a digital theme park. Their plots often involve big, sprawling complicated scenarios, but lack the commitment to dig into that complexity. Their characters exist as little more than archetypes for players to attach to and come back to for quests and goodies. Consequences are lacking because that would potentially force the player to lose out of doing something. And so often, it seems like their games get excused away because players can just choose to not do certain things when they play, despite the fact that their games are designed to be played indefinitely.
This is extra funny bc just like I'd be a main quest-avoider in this, I'm the person who likes the weird small exhibits & shows & rides at the fair that are away from the loud big tent main events.
As a long time TES fan nothing is more depressing than Skyrim being the breakout success, because it means more of this generic, shallow, first-draft BS is all we will get going forward.
Not an endorsement or Ulfric, but: I really don’t like the “Ulfric is racist” line of consideration. It essentially singularly accuses a man of racism in a world where ALL the people are racists. Hell, Dunmer are far worse than nords in the regard. Either way, it’s a fool who accuses a leader of blatant racism because there are people under their leadership who do racist things. By that logic, every leader in human history is racist. Tullius would be a racist too. It’s also narrow minded to ignore social and political implications of trying to tamp out such notions with force, particularly at such an unstable time. We today also have a very “convenient” view of racism in most western nations, having not really suffered true racism in our lifetimes. It’s easy to decry it as flat out evil, worth any cost to root out and destroy- but none of us have been a Japanese boy who lost his family to malicious Chinese torture, experimentation, and invasion. It’s far harder to be a tolerant person when you’ve suffered like that. The reality of it, both historical and fictional (in the case of Skyrim), is far, far more complex than just “this group right, that group wrong.” Also, I’d like to point out that NOBODY has experience being a king until they’re a king. But Ulfric has proven himself a capable leader who inspires his people and is willing to die alongside them. Not a bad start.
So first, it heing more complicated than "This side good, this side bad" is precisely why people decry racism. Second, people under a ruler doing bad things is not what Ulfric is accused of. He is the one who keeps the Datk Elves segregated, he is the one who prevents the Argonians from even entering city walls despite the fact they're vital to his trade, and he is the one who refuses to send anyone to hunt bandits so long as those bandits are only targeting non-nords. Whether or not Ulfric is personally racists is irrelevant. His policies are the cause to the effect of those who aren't Nords being pushed down on. Saying he inspites his people only works as a claim so long as you consider only Nords his people. (And even then, only if you ignore the ones who have signed up to fight against him.) He has done nothing to inspire a large population of his own subjects, unless inspiring hatred of him is what you meant.
@@moonblaze2713 My question is, why is any of that wrong? If the dark elves don't like it why not leave? Tribalism is the natural state of man. I don't think it is a flaw in Ulfric's character that he is not a modern progressive who fails to favor his own people's needs over others. If there is a flaw in Ulfric's approach it is that he might better utilize the Dunmer as an asset if he catered to their needs more. They might be more willing to join his rebellion in that case.
@@Raycloud "If the sea levels rise, the people living along the coasts can just sell their houses." "To who, Ben? Aquaman?" Where do you expect them to go? They're already as far as their money took them. In Windhelm they've reached the end of their resources. Where are they supposed to go? And how? They were offered succor and got crammed in a box, beyond the material conditions problem why are you blaming them for that? Tribalism may or may not be a natural state of man, but either way it's not a good one. You've illustrated that yourself by pointing out how the Stormcloaks would have more resources to hand if they had actually earned the Dunmer's loyalty. I could spell out more, but why? If you wont listen to yourself why would you listen to me?
The AD invading Skyrim after they won their independence makes me thing of Germany and France invading Russia. I don’t think the AD could beat the Nords in Skyrim.
Elder Scrolls 10? dude, its been 13 years since Skyrim and 6 still hasn't come out, at this rate, Elder Scrolls 10 will be made in 67 years at least. Elder Scrolls has to survive long enough first to become that long lasting, or they gotta figure out some miracle to start making these games faster and.....I'm not seeing either happening.
I like people who bring up "Oh man, Ulfric is so racist against the Dunmer!", you know as if the least racist Dunmer didn't make Nords look like MLK by comparison. Remember this, Argonians in Windhelm are underpaid employees while Argonians in Morrowind are farming equipment.
My original script included a long mini-essay about racism in Skyrim and Tamriel as in whole, where I did talk about Dunmer's racism, however I decided to cut it as it was out of topic and tbh, I don't think I had to state the obvious (racism bad). Hence why I only briefly explained levels of racism in Skyrim (Windhelm).
@@StorytellerJaeru Yeah my comment wasn't directed at you, you made it clear enough that the grey quarter was bad but not the worst thing about Ulfric's faction and their plans for Skyrim. I just had to express my annoyance at people who whitewash (no pun intended) the DUnmer as these innocent victims which IMO entirely makes them less interesting as a faction.
@@johnjsneed7591 Other than the ones in power, the Dunmer here are refugees. & just bc Nigel Farage exists doesn't mean I won't correct my uncle when he says something out of pocket about refugees. Just bc she's not "as bad" as Nigel Farage doesn't mean I'm not allowed to side-eye my uncle. & in Skyrim, Morrowind was a long time ago.
I do agree with that, as there are other aspects of Skyrim I didn't mention in this video that are actually really good (for instance music and environmental storytelling). I just used those keywords in the thumbnail to make the video more desirable to click at.
Ah, absolutely. My focus was solely to analyze Skyrim. Any facts/lore analysis that happened in earlier games was told to explain the events of Skyrim. I haven't actually played any other ES title than Skyrim and ESO. Although I am planning to!
What's the problem? I just made it clear from the start, as I played with default Nord Male Dragonborn and thought that using they/them (like I have in the past while discussing games with custom characters) for 2 hours could had gotten confusing while addressing both groups and Drgaonborn in same sentence.
@@StorytellerJaeru I appreciated that not just bc it showed me you were a decent person I could give an hour of my time to but precisely bc in games where you choose so much of your identity, I really like it when people introduce me to the consistent character(s) they are going to use so I know who the canonical hero of our journey is. There was nothing wrong with that & Jaeru you're correct that it helps with clarity. But as a fun personable thing, I also just wanna meet the character taking me thru this analysis of the game, & I am sad when people skip telling me their build. So thank you.
Skyrim was shite, people love to point to it being some great game and then say bethesda has lost its way in recent years. Those of us old enough to remember watching the games before skyrim come out were seeing bethesda going down hill with skyrim. But skyrim was so many peoples first elder scrolls and it was before the devs completely lost touch, so its looked at with nostalgic/forgiving eyes by many, when in truth it was the start of bethesdas end and baby first elder scrolls fans cant accept that. Daggerfall and Morrowind were best. I dont reply to things or check back on my comments so please dont start an arguement with me here when ill never see it or reply to you.
Overrated, obviously, and terribly so. No one can say with integrity that Skyrim's story is even approaching well written on an objective level. Subjectively, sure get whatever you want out of it. Objectively? It's typical Bethesda slop.
Anyone hating Skyrim is just a massive hipster so there is very little one has to care about their opinion. At launch the game was so good it caused massive surge in PC and console sales, not something that would happen with overrated game.
It is great that you just ignore any type of criticism said about Skyrim purely based on an argument that me or anyone else who criticises it are contrarians or jumping on hate bandwagon because why not. There are PLENTY to criticize about Skyrim and this video only touched the surface as other video-essayists have likely already made entertaining breakdowns on other aspects of Skyrim's mediocrity - like for instance how Skyrim's combat was already dated back when the game released. Besides there are bunch of different types of media that have been commercially and review-wise successful, but has seen backlash from some keen fans. Easiest examples to bring out to the table would be basically any MCU product released in Phase 4 or Star Wars Force Awakens. I personally wanted to analyse Skyrim as despite my criticism in this video, I do love the game (like I said in the video), but just because I like something, that doesn't mean I can't simultaneously criticise it.
@@StorytellerJaeru You don't get game being called one of the best games of all time just by hype. I have never heard anyone call Star Wars Force Awakens best movies nor best Star War movies of all time. Skyrim having dated combat at release is simply an exaggaration. If that had been the case, it would have been brought up on reviews.
At FA's release, it was widely concerned as a movie that brought Star Wars back. It was also very common to call it better than the prequel films, which is something people these days seem to disagree with it. It also is the fifth highest-grossing film of all-time and sits at 93% review score in Rotten Tomatoes. It is safe to say that it was VERY WELL received at release. And would likely still be if it weren't for fumbles Disney/Lucasfilm has had since then. Similarly, Skyrim was very well received at the time and got godly reviews, but in modern day, people are criticising it for right reasons. And how is it simply exaggeration? Dark Souls released the same year as Skyrim.
In all honesty, this is a terrible take from the start. Skyrim is considered to be one of the most replay-able games of all time and that isn’t just a personal opinion. I don’t think the fact that many people download mods to replay the game diminishes the vanilla version. The argument itself acknowledges that people are replaying this game and that can’t be said for many others.
Skyrim as a whole perhaps. This video is touching only Civil War and the main quest + there are plenty of negative things I could have talked about, but left untouched so that this video wouldn't be 10 hours long.
Honestly my biggest gripe with Skyrim is that it doesn’t follow up on the older lore about Nords, most of them strike me as Imperials but.. northern
after 2 centuries since morrowind under imperial rule that might very well have happened
@@mdd4296They were under Imperial rule since Tiber Septim started his conquest, and they didn't gave a sh*t about his worship, until TESV. Even in Oblivion priests of Talos complained that Nords prefered their own gods over Talos. By the time of Skyrim (200 years later), only Froki seems to worship old pantheon. Plenty of npcs shout: Shor have mercy on you! and so on, but not once they mention Kyne or Stuhn or Tsun. Only priest that mentions Kyne as deity is Dinya Balu from Riften, a dunmer, ironically.
@@mdd4296 In a typical fantasy world in eternal medieval stasis, suddenly the Nords have these revolutionary social changes in only two centuries. And all in service of making the lore less interesting at that.
@@grzegorzflorek5623 I agree and Disagree, since Nords in Skyrim are heavily inspired by the Northman (vikings) we can run some parallels between the two. You see vikings first came in contact with the Christian Saxons in the year 789 and by the end of the Viking period, around 1050, most Vikings were Christians. THAT ONLY TOOK 261 YEARS FOR VIKINGS TO CONVERT TO CHRISTIANITY.
Now lets look at the nords of skyrim, they came in contact with the Nedic people THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, not only that... but the nords and the nedes have made alliances in the past before (saxons and vikings were mostly at war) sure nedes and nords might have had small disagreements but nothing too major. Alessia is one major character that solidified their alliance and made it stronger as they went to war with the Ayleids together... making a nord conversion something that IS GOING TO HAPPEN
THE MOST UNREALISTIC PART is HOW LONG NORDS TOOK TO CONVERT... they should have been more imperial HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO... them maintaining their religion and culture for that long is UNREALISTIC... not only that but almost every major human empire of tamriel ( Allesian Empire, Ramen Dynasty, Septim Dynasty) has had Nords play a huge factor in the rising of these empires giving nords more reasons to convert to the alessian pantheon
so to summarize, unlike the vikings the nords had BETTER REASONS to convert and become more imperial than the vikings had when they converted to saxon society and way of life...
so it all comes down to what you think is important realism or fantasy because nords maintaining their old way of life while being in close connection with the imperials is not going to happen, its simply not realistic... though granted it is a fantasy genre so......
Lore in most game series keep retconing with each new entry. A weird "the biggest gripe" to have against Skyrim, especially if it's just aesthetics.
Sovngarde isnt a heaven like we think of it. Its more similar to realms of Oblivion, its just a different plane of existence, an Aedric one instead of a Daedric one. The gods just bring peoples souls to their realms as rewards (or in the case of Daedric realms, sometimes punishments). Elder Scrolls cosmology is crazy.
Infinite sized hole in the sky 🗿
That’s cool as hell. It also explains how and why different races have different heavens and none are the same place or nonexistent
You can't just say the word "independence" and expect anything to happen.
Ulfric: I didn't say it. I declared it.
Michael Stormcloak xD
@@sadboiz4lyfe I don't know what devilry this is but you just planted the seed for a PC called "Smooth Jazzcloak" I shall play one fine day...
30:37 "realistically speaking imperials are a no brainer option for tamriel's safety and longevity in mind"
this line only makes sense if you ignore the dragonborn. realistically the DB can solo armies. if you add his dragons, guild members, daedric artifacts, etc it becomes even easier. he is talos 2.0.
It's also ignoring that the empire, as the bottom they are. Gives more free passes for the Thalmor than Stormcloak would.
Not to mention ignoring that the emperor's own council hired an assassin (DB questline) to kill him, which shows that they're barely united themselves.
Medieval life expectancy is mostly dragged down by child mortality. Delphine being fit in her 50's isn't necessarily unrealistic.
Childbirth & infections too. People get punctured a lot in Nirn. They must have amazing antibiotics + hand sanitizer + prenatal care.
44:45 Common misconception about life expectancy was that people actually got only as old as the average. That low average was caused by high infant mortality rates. If you lived past childhood you could easily become 70 years old at least, even in the Middle ages., let alone half a century ago...
Regarding the creation of new shouts, the ancient Nords almost certainly made new shouts if the pre-Skyrim lore is to be believed and reconciled with the new lore. As to why we don’t have these shouts, I assumed when the way of the voice became a purely religious practice, the man-made shouts were cast aside and lost to history. So the only shouts the player can find are on word walls made by or in reverence to the dragons.
Regarding Delphine’s age, average life expectancy was greatly diminished by infant mortality. There weren’t a bunch of 40-something’s dropping dead.
Generally hygiene was way worse at then, which naturally lowered average age. Of course, infant deaths dropped it by a mile, but not that many people survived till 50+. But as mentioned in the video, Elder Scrolls takes place in a fictional world with magic so.
Alduin wanted to rule the world due to his nature of being a Dragon, he thinks he deserves it. When the DB shows up to kick his ass Alduin finally said fuck it and wanted to end the world which he still supposed to do hes suupose to do that later.
1:35:04 he doesn’t want to devour the world, he wants to rule it like he did all those thousands of years ago. Thats part of the problem, he’s supposed to end the current Kalpa but won’t.
Nah, he said fuck it and wanted to end it early.
To me the issue with Skyrim is it promises more than it delivers, and whenever asked they just blame it on the engine, morrowind and oblivion delivered expansive yet deep and immersive worlds, and within skyrim there’s mentions of white run being this gigantic city more akin to minas tirith than the smaller edoras it seems in gameplay, which feels like a letdown, same with mortal, giant industrial city…with 6 buildings. It’s all tell don’t show with Skyrim, which is a shame, because the bits where it shows instead of telling: music, the skybox, etc, are absolutely fabulous
Ironically, if you want a huge Whiterun, play Arena. Cities in that game are massive...basic sure, but they packed a lot of city scape in it and even managed to make each province/country have different looks to their cities for the most part. But yeah, it's always in the lore that we get these big cities, and NPC act like it while all we see is a street or two. Cities smaller than some small shopping malls. I understand that larger takes longer to make, but games have done it before. I don't necessarily need a realistic city size, but big enough to make it feel for the sake of the game at least half way believable.
People can say whatever they want, Skyrim is an eternal classic despite all its flaws
Ah, I absolutely agree with this nevertheless. Despite my criticism, I still absolutely adore the game's atmosphere, soundtrack, environment and lore!
Totally agree! I still play it now, but god is the writing terrible. The more I play, the more ridiculous I see the writing and situations you're put in are. However, the fun of this game is what you can make of it, and there is so much variety with mods and added content that make the game worth playing 10+ years later.
If it's so eternal how come I can't make it 30 minutes into a playthrough before realising I could just be having more fun playing morrowind? What's eternal about a unfinished game with 4 factions and no player choice? Skyrim is a one and done game, and it wasn't that good the first time
True, but that makes me only hope that Bathesta will do better in ES6 if they see the critisism. After all I adore the series and only hope for the next game in the series to be the best it can be. Not that I have much fate in modern Bathesta, but I can hope :3
@bonafidebusta4977
Yeah, I love the world, the writing not so much.
In the way I understood it, the Dragonborn didn’t need a dragon soul to learn Dragon Rend because it’s a human made shout. As Alduin said, Dragon Rend is an abomination.
That subway surf while explaining the dragons was golden 😂😂😂
Gotta keep zoomers/Gen-Z entertained somehow 🤣
Ah yes, Morrowind's great writing. You might be the choosen one, no you're not, yes you are, no you're not, maybe, yes you are, maybe, Lady Azura manipulated everything to fall in place, or did she?
Don't worry, I'll go through every mainline ES game eventually. I just need more time.
You try to point and laugh, but Morrowind has the most competently written story and lore of any of Bugthesda dogshit products.
Your argument is a lazy whataboutism and you will cease it immediately.
That's my biggest problem with the elder scrolls. It's too afraid to commit to anything so the lore is left ambiguous
Azura really said "man, these mortals I keep shoving the fulfill this prophecy to overthrow the Tribunals and worship me again keeps dying, oh? Someone coming from Imperial Prison? They fulfill the first part of the prophecy? I'll give them plot armor and gas light them into thinking they're someone else"
@@lamedrawings I like that. You aren't born to fullfil the prophecy, you are pushed and tempted towards it, you have to actively fullfil it in order to become the Nerevarine.
It is a fresh take.
The interesting thing about Skyrim is that it has an incredibly vast evolution of story building. It shows how "modern" Nords are completely different than ancient Nords in almost all cultural and social aspects, which is natural for any peoples as times and technologies change. Skyrim's history surrounding its, social and political cultures mirror real world topics in so many ways.
I do love skyrim and despite its flaws I can't help but go back to it. But the civil war is one of my pet peeves about the game (along with the silliness of being the head of every major guild not being important lol) - like all the forts on the hold borders are held by bandits like they should have had more of them held by storm cloaks and imperials or Hold guards (which at least would explain the part where people say the jarls are stretched thin)
"you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the Willan" 1:10:31
13:00 I started Skyrim 4 times before I even realized I could join *Ralof instead. Lol
That argument about the thalmor 56:10, not really benefitting from the dragon resurgence, is not valid. According to the lore, the purpose of the thalmor is to destroy the world because they believe they are gods and tamriel is their prison. They do not want to conquer. What they want is to have access to the throat of the world and to the red mountain, because according to the legend, below them are some stones that keep tamriel in place and if they remove them the world will cease to exist and they (the thalmor) will be reborn as gods or so they think. So yes, Jurassic park Tamriel is perfectly compatible with their plan
my most recent play through I found esbern on the 30th of frost fall and walked all the way back to Riverwood just so they could be reunited on that date
That's honestly sweet.
On paarathurnax turning around and taking over after you die, there is good evidence that other dragons are hiding around the world as well. Any other them could try, but I think the dragons know trying to rule humans is not worth the effort or risk.
It definitely isn't especially in a world where The Last Dragonborn is alive. But as mentioned in the video, without Alduin, no dragon can be resurrected anyway so any dragon would be very vulnerable to regular humans like let's say the Blades. Expect us to get a dragon scholar in TES6 who is a friendly NPC in a random sidequest.
About Delphine - I find it plausible she could have just gotten the horn like 5 years prior to the dragon born's return or maybe at any point within the last few years - knowing to grab it because after learning of the location of the horn - predicting the grey beards would send a Dragon born there. A sort of "preemptive trap" to catch a upcoming dragon born. How'd she get through the trap? Tricking it perhaps? That's not out of the realm of possibility, maybe setting up decoys or demos to lift up the gates. After getting the horn and back, she merely waits and studies the dragon burial mounds. I don't think it is out of the realm of speculation / plausibility for this all to happen and think it is strange people question it that intensely lol
Same. My headcanon has her tailing several "false" Dragonborn who don't make it the whole way & spiriting it out the side exit eventually, maybe with the help of a Farengir type, then years of having that letter there, having the horn in the inn, seeing more false Dragonborns...I think it explains so much of her jadedness & her surprise when you do come along & are actually The Dude.
Maybe im giving the main character too much credit, but I think the dragon born being on the side of either the empire or stormcloacks could severly help them in the long run if they battle the Thalmor. If hammerfell could keep the Thalmor at bay. The nords with ulfric and the dragonborn on their side could as well.
> Brunwulf becomes Jarl
> Still maintains the segregation and still doesn't let Argonians inside the city
lol. lmao, even
I agree, it is little silly. But I feel like this is more to do with Bethesda simply not implementing any radical changes to Windhelm, due to either lack of interest from their part or lack of development time (civil war itself is infamously half baked and rushed in every aspect). Even if you win the civil war (either side), nothing really changes. It is mostly just dialogue/character role swaps at best.
@@StorytellerJaeru IDK man, Brunwulf sounds like a grifter to me
There is one singular case where I am intrigued by Skyrim, SorcerorDave's recent playthrough.
He plays the Nerevarine of his 100+ hour long Morrowind playthrough, the old aged and vindictive man who was cast down from power in Cyrodil before he became the archmagister of Telvannia, the leader of the Morag Tong and the Nerevarine Reborn.
And what inspired it was a single line in Morrowind's prophecies, that calls the Nerevarine "Dragonborn".
thank you for your time and effort as this is a really well done video! im gonna enjoy watching this while i bunker down for the night, play my modded skyrim while I hear your thoughts, thank you a ton for this video man! hope the best for this channel I just subscribed
13:26
Just realized that the player probably killed more people in helgen than Alduin did.
Swear there’s more people underground than above
@alexwright5215 The assumption is that Imperials were already stationed with some Stormcloak prisoners at Helgen's Keep and of course, there were potentially hundreds of Stormcloaks that were captured in an ambush. But yeah, there is certainly more of them visible at the keep.
However, that isn't really that big of a deal IMO when it comes to plot consistency, as Skyrim's size is already like 30x smaller (if not more) to it's actual canon size due to hardware limitations of PS3 and Xbox 360.
I view Skyrim as akin to how Historical Movie Epics were made in the past. Nearly all movie epics were shot with more detailed lore and connections to past events but these end up being cut because the mainstream audience finds them tedious and boring and a summarized and sterilized version will do just fine. There are endless amounts of tedious lore that could be thrown into skyrim but the average new player to elder scrolls, which is going to be most people, aren't going to care. They care about the archetypes...Roman Imperial, German Nord, Alien Elf. Stubborn nord rebel against Empire because alien elf is given too much power and there are too many immigrants in their land. The actual lore is more deep but doesn't need to be to push the story along. This is a sandbox game with some completionist motivations...story is actually pretty good in that sense.
What I find crazy is that you are forced to kill Paarthurnax otherwise you cannot continue with the mission. It could have been managed in a number of ways.
You can beat the game without killing Paarthurnax.
After ordered to kill it, just go talk with the greybeard
You are not forced to kill him
Delphine really said "BE NICE 2 MEEEEEE"
Regarding the Civil War, an overwhelming majority of the internet sides with the Imperials. Im probably one of the few who think siding with the Stormcloaks is the "right" choice.
Death to the Stormcloaks!
I think if you're a Nord it's no question.
@@Taylor422 If youre dragonborn, its a no brainer.
I am also part of that minority. I am not a contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but alas I am a minority on a few political issues...................
I always saw them as rightful, yet my opinion tweaked a bit after realising the racism. It makes it harder to choose whom to side with. One flag? Multiple flags? No flag at all? I'm incluned towards yhe latter, but how do you achieve it within the Skyrimverse?
A better storyline would involve the Thalmor using dragons (by siding with Alduin) to terrorize Skryim, thus pushing the Empire and the Stormcloaks into an alliance to save the province. Paarthunax would be forced to return to battle and side with the Stormcloak-Empire alliance, turning into an epic war of bloodshed, magic, and dragons. In the end, Alduin dies, the Thalmor are driven out, and the Nords are free to worship Talos again in Skyrim.
I disagree, i actually think that is much worse
Finally this guy posts a new video after waiting for 6 months...
Save states ARE canon,its called chim
Considering dragon breaks..everything is canon, and not canon
@@eternalsummer8409 Bethesda aren't very good writers if you dig too deep lol 😂
@@ianhandy5090 you know for Dragonborn specifically I always assumed you could also use the logic that Dragon Dad plucked the Dragonborn back in time
@@l0sts0ul89 honestly never thought of that, good idea
@@ianhandy5090 yeah it makes the most sense to me if you don't use CHIM
Nice vid man. Also as a fellow Nordic, I am happy you're Finnish.
Thank you!
@@StorytellerJaerupretty voice and dialect❤
Holy shit you jumpscared me suomen puhumisella xD
first of all Ulfric isn't forcing anyone to live in the grey quarter, that decision was made by Ulfrics predecessor and by the time we get there Windhelm has no empty homes anywhere within city limits and no space to construct more dwellings, so what the hell is he supposed to do other than telling them to make do with what is available?
also after one of the nicer houses in Windhelm does become available, Ulfric will happily let any citizen of Windhelm with enough coin purchase that property no matter who it is.
Ulfric is also allowing dark elves to purchase farm land outside the city so i really don't get what the problem is.
Dark elves are also slave owning bastards who are probably in general one of the most racist groups and then when they found the body of what is basically Nord Jesus. They perverted it to give 3 people God powers. THEY ALSO WORSHIP DEMONS. All things considered Ulfric is one hell of a reasonable person. TLDR fuck the empire skyrim belongs to the Nords.
"BUT BLONDE MAN RAYCIS", all jokes aside, Stormcloak racism extends about as far as some people shouting mean things and not wanting to let the Thalmor walk over them.
I understand the arguments for going with the storm cloak at the beginning of the game, but the imperial soldier is better armed and armored. Who do you have a better chance of surviving with?
I suspect Hadvar's concern for the child is supposed to sway you a little towards him, too, along with his concern for the PC since he makes it clear he wants you to survive the dragon at least while he still calls you "Prisoner".
Civil War is actually pure TES lore and should be the main quest imho.
I actually really agree with this, especially when Thalmor/A-Dominion is as involved as they are (and no doubt will be a key player in ES6). Or at the very least, it could had played a larger factor in the main quest that we got.
As far as Delphine's lifespan is concerned, she is a breton.
0:44 i genuinely dont even get why thays a sentiment; ive literally never modded my skyrim game even once and always have a great time playing it.
That's completely fine and I am glad you enjoy Skyrim without mods. However, it is unarguably true that mods increase video game's life cycle. Skyrim would not be as popular today if it weren't for mods.
I loved the Blades in _Oblivion._ I despise the Blades in _Skyrim._ I always play with the Paarthurnax Dilemma mod installed so that I, as the Dragonborn, have the ability to put Delphine in her place. After all, the Dragonborn is the one she _claims_ to have sworn allegiance to. So your opinion and decree should, in theory, supercede her own. Even as the acting Grand Master, she should not have the authority to command you, countermand you, or even banish you from Sky Haven Temple, which she wouldn't even have access to herself without _your_ blood!
After reminding Delphine who is actually the boss, I bring the three recruits to become Blades. Then I remove her and Esbern's essential status and end their careers... permanently. That way, I roleplay as rebuilding the Blades by myself, in my own image as Dragonborn, without Esbern's and Delphine's corrupting influence.
Also, why should Paarthurnax not be left alive? Yes, he committed atrocities under Alduin, but he also is the first of the dragons to rebel against Alduin's domination and assisted humanity in doing likewise. And since then, he has faithfully committed himself to the Way of the Voice (a dragon submitted to a human's teachings!). By implication, then, he has submitted himself primarily to Kyne, a Nordic deity, over and above his own father Akatosh.
His very rebellion against-and assistance to humanity in their rebellion against-Alduin is in itself an atonement for his previous atrocities. And his devotion to the Way of the Voice ever since (for literal _millennia_ ) is atonement on top of atonement. If anyone is owed clemency, it's Paarthurnax!
Agreed. Case dismissed!
[hammer bonk]
would love to see this kind of in depth explanation for the other big quests and guilds of skyrim as I love the game but also agree, that often the storytelling leaves alot to be desired
Idk it felt like classic not too deep adventure fantasy. I dont want it too complex. Felt like a classic story of old with the classic and iconic creation of Dragonborn and his powers
I haven't yet finished the video, this is more a comment on sjyrim commentary youtube in general: i feel like thise of us still playing Skyrim arent playint it for the gsmeplay or writing any more. Do you buy a blank canvas to look at or to paint?
I just gotta say, the Elder Scroll doesn't just come out of nowhere. They are a heavily established part of the lore. They are literally the name.
Of course. Like you said, if they didn't exist, then what's the point of naming the franchise after them? My argument in this video is just to show that the player had to discover an item so rare no one even knows how they work. Without Elder Scroll, you can't use Dragonrend, therefore you cannot hurt Alduin and then Alduin simply wins. End of the story.
@@StorytellerJaeru A sorta counterargument is that it being a Deus Ex Machina is kinda fitting. The Last Dragonborn existing was foretold by the Elder Scrolls. All these coincidences work if you consider that TLD is being placed on this path by Akatosh and fate. He happens to be in the right place at the right time and happens to have all things go right because he is supposed to, and fate and destiny has a confusing existence in TES.
My theory for the start of the game is that there are some scripting errors, which Skyrim is full of really. I think the lore and timeline of the story changed a lot during development. So I think what makes the most sense is that the Imperials captured Ulfric near Darkwater Crossing and then made their way to Pale Pass to reach the Imperial City, but finding the pass blocked off by avalanches they stumbled upon the player character and arrested them there on the spot.
I would imagine that Bethesda had probably planned out something massive for the civil war storyline, which ended up being cut out altogether due to deadlines. This could have impacted the Unbound quest as well as it had to introduce the Civil War quest line and later sync up with Season Unending (if Civil War hasn't been solved by then).
@@StorytellerJaeru Well, I think the timeline of events changed a few times during development. I think that early on the Great War happened much closer to the game's beginning. I mean, consider Ulfric's age and how long ago the war was. He is at his youngest in his late 40's but probably older. No wife, no kids, no family. Has he been a rebel against the Empire for 30 years? How long? The shop owner in Falkreath says he was with the Stormcloaks for years and fought with them... but fought where and against whom? My impression is that Ulfric didn't become an actual rebel until he killed the High King and that started the civil war.
Then take "In My Time of Need". I think it is generally agreed upon that Saadia is lying but her lie makes no sense. Neither does what Kematu is saying. Remember; the Redguard's war against the Thalmor ended some 20 years ago or so if I'm not mistake. Close to that. So did people just recently find out that some 25 years ago Saadia helped a city fall? Is she in her 50's too? Kematu says, "The resistance against the Thalmor is alive and well in Hammerfell"... but what are they resisting? The Thalmor withdrew from Hammerfell and that was again, about two decades ago. So what's going on there?
It would make MORE sense in both of the cases above if the Great War ended just a few years before the game begin. And/or if Hammerfell was actually still partially under Thalmor control.
So for those reasons, I think the lore changed at some point in development and various bits of dialog and other supporting lore didn't get updated to reflect that.
your account is super underrated dude
Skyrim video with persona music in the background? Was this video made specifically for me?
Silent Hill 2 too.
This video should be a good reminder. I barely remember much about the story. Ey Birmingham!
My main nitpick is that Alduin did NOT want to eat the world. That is his purpose, but he decided to abandon his duties and rule over Mundus. When we kill him, we set him back on his proper course to be the true end of the world.
Yeah that little detail at the end was great by bgs. We really didnt destroy alduin, he was the only soul we didnt absorb.
It is an interesting detail for sure, as it does lay a foundation for future games or gives Bethesda a chance to do a full universe wipe whenever they so please. But as an ending to a game, it is underwhelming to say the least. And well, my point about bringing back old villains still stands. It remains to be seen how Bethesda decides to reuse Alduin if they ever choose to go down that path.
He said something about how dragons die but I missed the whole segment for some reason
I watched tens of hours of skyrim reviews at this point... Surely 2 more hours won't hurt.
Overrated or Overhated?
The answer is... yes. Just yes. Look, I'm a huge fan of Skyrim, and despite never playing Morrowind or Oblivion, I don't doubt that the storyline of Skyrim leaves a lot to be desired. I don't see myself really ever going back to "Vanilla" skyrim after mods greatly enhance each playthrough of mine. I won't even touch the countless annoying re-releases.
That said, when I see people nowadays jumping on the Bethesda-hate bandwagon and seeing things like "SKYRIM WAS ALWAYS BAD," I just kinda roll my eyes. I can't help but think to myself "it's easy to say that about a game that's well over ten years old by now". Yeah, Bethesda has a lot to be criticized for. Outdated game design. Horrible monetization. A LOT of complacency. I do believe that Todd Howard tends to think big, and deliver small to put it kindly. I think he wants to give us something amazing, but it's unfeeling to stray from the status quo, which hurts his games in the long run. But when people try to apply 2020s standard gaming expectations to a game that came out a decade prior, I just find it kinda stupid.
My two cents: Skyrim has at least one point in its favor (it has others, but this is the main one, in my opinion), which is that it is extremely replayable, a feature that many titles lack, even RPGs.
Having said that... the main plot of the game, or the fight against Alduin, is definitely the least interesting of the 3 (dragons, vampires and Miraak), for a few reasons:
-our character is elevated to the rank of demigod, and this throws a whole series of discrepancies on the rest of the game. In Oblivion, we were indeed in the emperor's dream, but nevertheless we are normal people, to the point that it is Martin who defeats the threat of the moment. This makes our character free to be the self-made nobody who probably cannot change the balance on the table.
In Skyrim we are forced, at least if we choose to embark on the main plot, not only to follow a pre-established path, where there is no choice, but we cannot even choose our path after the defeat of Alduin: if I wanted to make an evil character , interested in power, I couldn't, not only because the plot forces you to play as a hero (and you are labeled as such by everyone), but it doesn't even allow you to kill Ulfric and Tullius and govern Skyrim, based on your chosen race and your own motivations;
-secondly, unlike Oblivion (where the opening of the portals actually posed a potential problem not only to the province but to the whole world), in Skyrim the dragons are more of a nuisance...since even the guards can defeat them one.In Oblivion, NPCs did not enter portals (except specific characters, in two-three missions), making it clearer to us that only we players could contain the threat. In Skyrim, dragons are no different from any giant or angry mammoth.
I appreciate your opinion, but based on the facts presented and as someone who plays games with my brain turned on, I can confidently say that you're wrong.
@@theincrediblefella7984 I can accept the fact that a person plays with their brain turned off (just like you can watch a movie without asking too many questions, even with very large logical holes in front of your eyes).
However, you need to tell me on which points I would be wrong, at least if you want to start a dialogue.
game has 4 factions, how is that replayable? Skyrim is the least replayable TES game. There's barely any content.
@@rudebox5688 It depends on how you play it, what limits you set yourself and what type of role you choose for your character.
@@Khan-dell-Orda-d-Argento Are you on crack? TES 5 has no role playing options. No different ways of solving quests. No options for different ways of playing characters. Half of the skills are universal. Every character needs lockpick, enchant, speech, armorer. Are you stealth archer or are you bash man? Those are your only choices. Do you want to kill a bunch of dragur or will you just not do this quest. That's not player choice. It is laughable that you would use role playing and player choice to defend skyrim and clearly shows you've never played an actual rpg
I think Dragonrend could've been replaced with Marked for Death
Not a bad idea, but even then, the plot would had remained the same as TLDB would still need a specific shout to defeat Alduin.
Great video, sucks that it takes this long to make long videos like this
Surely I could had finished it long ago, if it weren't for multiple aspects (mostly irl based), but also stuff like my gpu failing half way through to editing, rewriting the script like 10+ times and my editing software crashing like 5 times into each session (sometimes leading to a lot of lost time) :p
1:22:07 this was rather specific 😂
My Headcanon I usally go for when I do a playthrough is I was an arms dealer/collector that got caught while trading arms to the stormcloaks, thus I do the companions for whuthrad and silver swords/red eagle/dawnbreaker as soon as I can etc
Military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan were explained in a lot of detail at the time: techniques like area sweeps, cordons tightening, kettling, operational decapitations/lawn-mowing, mop-ops, etc.
--- Skyrim's border has heightened security
--- Imperials' military intelligence told them Stormcloaks were amassing in an area
--- as you note, there'd be non-Storm cloaks profiteering or making a living in war conditions & camp-followers around them, plus whoever was just randomly around that day
--- Tullius planned this ambush as big deal high stakes operation for ending the war
So there was a large chaotic battle with a security cordon + sweep/mop operation afterwards, where Imperials were ordered to collect every single stranger in the area & anyone that couldn't be identified + vouched for was on a wagon for Helgen.
The US did that every day to innocent people, many ended up dead bc even if they were released bc the civil war meant release after capture was seen as suss, a risk you were an informer or collaborator, so often their lives were taken regardless, by multiple sides, but the initial action of the US marked them for death either way.
Me + the Thief from Rorikstead were collateral damage, picked up post-battle. It also solves why they take them to Helgen, not just to spread the word but bc if you're going to break your own laws of war, you don't do it on home soil. A mass beheading doesn't seem to be normal justice in Cyrodiil or Tamriel & I doubt it's a daily Tullius thing. The set up at the beginning feels like the aftermath of a big gamble both sides were taking that day that probably was intended as a one+done for Imperials & the Stormcloaks were obv planning some large operation the Imperials disrupted that day.
TL; DR I imagine the initial conditions as a post-battle security mop-up operation within a geographic area an army was trying to clear + hold after a chaotic battle. I was an unlucky passerby with no good excuse for being there bc I'm fleeing my own problems.
The Finnish caught me off guard, especially because I was actually able to recognize some of the words. I’m still learning 😅
That was solid. You're right, people don't break down the main quest much anymore except as perfunctory overview. I like your balance between "it's a game" vs "but it should be written/handled better here". Yes, at some point the prompts are simply inviting you to play more of the game, & it's frustrating when the games or quests are overly nitpicked without remembering gaming is the goal. BGS does enough head-shakingly weak storytelling that people don't have to go hunting for flaws in acceptable mechanics that don't ruin a quality players value. I'd gotten used to people just dunking on BGS mechanics that are not egregious as more critics + reviewers plunder the carcasses of their games that it was really refreshing to hear someone acknowledge "yeah that part wasn't the smoothest but it's here to invite us to this part of the game...so let's talk about WHY THERE'S MASS IN NORD HEAVEN".
Your Thu'um is also mighty & as someone with a kick for linguistics/conlangs, your Dragon Tongue new words segment was fascinating.
It's hard to bring something new to this table & I like all the familiar stuff still, but this is a welcome new dish. Thanks for cooking for the feast.
The very fact that there are so many mods still being made for skyrim and the incredibly active community for the game even a decade later is a testament against all the haters that froth at the mouth when you even mention the game. Its far from perfect but it endures. Good thing too since we may not live long enough to see tes 6
Also a testament to the engine being able to do way more than they gave us in base Skyrim, while they tried to bluff and say the engine couldn’t manage it
People are allowed to go against the grain you know. Everyone's been there at some point.
Same with how many new videos on the Holy Trinity (TES 3, 4, 5) still made daily.
Great video! Skyrim is a fun game but definitely has its problems. Also it'd be great to get your perspective of the Skyrim side quests.
Just did my first playthrough since it came out. The DLC added a ton of quality of life upgrades, and i love this universe..but nothing in this game touches the climax of oblivions main quest.
Tbh even if the main story makes sense in terms of events from A to B to C , it still feels lackluster , which is weird because you go to the afterlife. The only NPC that I remember from the games Is parthanoux and I remember him only bc he asks you the question of what is greater , to be born good or to overcome your nature through trial and become good. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't remember him either.
If you have to remember only 1 thing from Skyrim, remembering the dragon asking you a fundamental question about ethics sounds pretty f-cking awesome to me.
The horn thing isn’t as big of a plot hole as you point it out to be, at least in them using it to name the player Dragonborn. That’s just ceremonial, the Dragonborn already proved to them they’re Dragonborn by absorbing the word of power instantly and being able to use it. No one except a Dragonborn can do that. They may you get the horn because it’s their tradition, it’s not to prove that you’re truly truly Dragonborn. If you take it at surface level yes, but that’s not what’s being shown
It is a ceremonial thing yes, which Greybeards have seemingly done for decades and TLDB has to go through it in order to get the remaining words for Unrelenting Force.
"The plot hole" I criticised has to do with whether Greybeards placed the horn there after summoning TLDB or if it has sat there for thousands of years (last time Greybeards did an audible summoning was when Tiber Septim was summoed. This is mentioned in the game). Of course, reasonably, they probably had the horn at their possession till they summoned TLDB, but if not, then literally anyone could had stolen it during the time Septim Empire has existed.
Even then, this is seemingly public knowledge, as Delphine mentions how predictable the Greybeards are. Yes, the horn offers no benefit to someone who isn't a dragonborn, but someone could had still stolen the horn BEFORE Delphine took it, especially if realistically speaking, only thing you need to acquire it is:
1. Basic combat knowledge to navigate the ruin and to stay alive.
2. access to Windcaller's tomb's backdoor (which you use to exit his tomb) OR talent in Whirlwind Sprint.
3. Excellent parkour manouvers or a fire resist potion (as no one other than a dragonborn could use word walls and obtain the Become Ethereal shout).
If TLDB were to claim that the horn was stolen (like it ironically enough was), Greybeards would not go through with their ceremony and therefore would never allow TLDB to meet Paarthurnax (the quest that lets you talk to Paarthurnax only unlocks after completing the ceremony and finishing the quest "Alduin's Wall").
It isn't really a plot hole per say. I used it in the video to discredit the Greybeards, as I also discredit the Blades. The difference is that Greybeards don't tell you to kill people (or well, dragons). They are just old-fashioned and likely just didn't think that people outside of High Hrothgar would had made research on their way of handling things.
@@StorytellerJaeru I see, thanks for elaborating, makes sense.
Alduin's role in the world is World Eater. Hes only technically a dragon, hes actually a god whos role is to destroy the current world so a new one can emerge. He just decided to not do that and abuse his powers to rule instead.
Empire. Only because I want the Stormcloaks and the rest of the Imperials to be able to worship Talos, and the only way that's happening is if the Dominion is defeated, and the only way that's happening is if provinces stop rebelling and the Empire gets it's shit back together after some time "trucing."
@ABurntMuffin
The Mede Emperor is literally getting assassinated by his own council hiring the Dark Brotherhood even in Skyrim, the Empire is NOT united and cannot even get their own shit together.
If your concern are the Thalmor, a Stormcloak victory would not only kick the empire out of Skyrim, but it would also deny Thalmor justiciars free pass going into cities and a lot of regions overall. Meanwhile an Imperial victory if anything gives them even MORE free reign to arrest people left and right.
@@stranger7131 the emperor assassinates himself because he knows he can't do it and he's tired of it all. The very fact that the empire is stuck fighting rebellions is part of the Thalmor plan. With the empire not in skyrim the Thalmor have complete control, the current Nord situation is a joke.
@@stranger7131 you should read the thalmor's own words on it. they have journal entries and reports all over the embassy.
I am enjoying this very much - only halfway through, but i wanna say a "big thank" for not letting the Thalmor (VS Nords) off the hook for their racial supremacy, nor us humans (vs ecology) in the real world. Very based 🎉 I'm subscribed
Both can be true at once honestly in all but scope its a bit bland as fuck but i still replay it
As long as Emil remains the lead writer and designer I don't expect a Bethesda game to ever have a good story
If skyrim is bad people wouldn't be modding it or even bother to play it
This is a poor take in my opinion, as Skyrim isn't the only highly rated game that has aged poorly. And the modding aspect has more to do with how easily Bethesda games can be modded and how supportive Bethesda is with modding in general.
@@StorytellerJaeru it's not a poor take it's an observation. Something can be good and people will want to improve upon it because they like it., that's Skyrim.
Of course, you don't seem to recognize the main reason why things are laid out the way they are. Not that "the timing is a little too convenient" for so many things, but that they are are "driven by the plot". It is a game, so unlike a story, things happen in a certain sequence, regardless of how it is "in reality".
This is true, as the game should put gameplay first before the story and if it didn't place the player in these situations, we wouldn't have story in our hands. For instance, it is easy to forgive Alduin for "rescuing" TLDB at Helgen, since that is precisely what sets the game's events in motion. If it weren't for Alduin, none of the quests; minor or major; would not take place. In other words, the player is used as the driving force for these events to take place. That is fine.
The problem arises when you build your story to include multiple conveniences that were written in a specific way to reach the ultimate end goal: that being TLDB slaying Alduin. It is just that many events that transpired throughout the story aren't that well executed, even if it offers a coherent and straight-forward story for the player to enjoy. Can the story unfold as told? Absolutely. It is not like Aurbis is stopping the time from turning out smoothly for our heroes. If the plot turns out the way it does, then obviously TLDB will benefit from them (like Alduin's incompetence or finding Thalmor's dossiers). But that requires pieces of the plot puzzle to align in a very specific way, which I am criticising here.
For example:
- the game has to introduce an idea of the player's character being a Dragonborn -> spawn a dragon near Whiterun right as the player has returned from Bleak Falls Barrow.
- the game has to introduce Delphine (and the Blades) to the story -> make her steal the horn of Jurgen Windcaller ahead of time to lure (potential) TLDB to her inn.
- the game has to explain Alduin's threat and Dragonborn's role to the story -> Esbern and Sky Haven Temple.
- the player needs to hurry and defeat Alduin, but Alduin cannot be harmed when he is flying -> Blackreach Elder Scroll Fetch Quest and the Dragonrend shout.
My point here is that all of these could had been written in a more interesting and less convenient way, while maintaining the plot's smoothness and reaching the same final outcome. My original plans for this video included a short rewrite of the game's main quest (which by no means would have been better objectively lol), but I decided to scrap the idea due to time constraints. Perhaps I should had done that to illustrate further on why I think some plot elements were bad choices to go with in my opinion.
Sure, if Skyrim (or any other narrative-driven game) was written like a fantasy novel, it would be extremely difficult to turn into a large-scale open-world RPG game. So it is only natural that the story flows without hurdles and has no major plot twists, because it doesn't have to. Skyrim's main quest is one of the several different quests in the game and was likely intended to be experienced first by new players - hence why lacks complexity and nuance that would make it memorable. It is different than games like TLOU that are meant to be experienced like a movie/novel. Bethesda just decided to play it safe and sweet so the final product is what we got. And that's okay. As plenty of other quest lines are way better from writing front and more enjoyable to play (as I mentioned in the video). That doesn't mean that I won't criticise it, even if my complaints can easily come out as petty to some or even contrarian for sake of being contrarian.
But yeah, I do somewhat agree with your take. It can be a stretch to compare a video game, fantasy one at that, to real life, because designers of The Elder Scrolls Universe (or any fictional world in general) can set any laws and/or rules that they desire to minimise inconsistencies in their stories. I will keep that in mind going forward. Thank you for your honest feedback.
@@StorytellerJaeru The difference between good conviniences and bad one is character agency.
Delphine in her position should have a network of informants. Player can deduce she has an idea of what TLDB is about to do and plan accordingly. In this case, the character excercised their agency to push the plot forward: good.
The dragons just coincidentally show up in whiterun because the story need to progress, there is no other rhythm nor reason to it. Worse, dragons only start spawning after that quest. So their whole conquest was on hold until the plot demanded it while they should have hit when the protag was at their weakest.
You can definitely "write" (design is a better word really) an open world game narrative that operate like a novel. But the bravery to write the players out of the story or inconvinient them if they refuse to progress it is largely absent from the mainstream market. And game with the ball to do that often make the narrative largely too impersonal.
I have zero use for Ulfric Stormcloak. At best, he's a ruthless opportunist. At worst..I'm not going over *that* ground again. Even if you discard his use of the Voice as a murder weapon as Imperial propaganda, your'e left with an experienced warrior who challenged a wet-behind-the-ears kid barely out of his teens to a duel to steal the High Kingship.
Yeah Ulfric gives me Bad BF vibes he is all red flags lol.
Never beat the game and got over 1,000 hours
wholesome
Duke of whales was the OP
Hope Duke's working on Morrowind. Honestly the more dishes people want to bring for me to feast on this content is fine with me. Plenty of room still on the table. Plenty of chairs to pull up & join the feast.
What made me choose the imperials almost instantly was my first trip into Windhelm, as someone has faced racial discrimination just for being a bit darker than white i couldnt ever back the stormcloakes. I know they arent all racist but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
Which is funny, because Dunmer are canonically the second most-racist group in TES. After redguards, who hated elves so much they hate-bonered a God into existence and sunk their own home continent just to genocide the mer who lived there.
Seriously, though: the "Stormcloaks r rayciss" argument is a really weak one in the game's context, especially when the alternative is to side with literal colonizers. I know it's a game, but there has to eventually be a level of critical thoughts if you're going to make these blanket statements.
@@chesterstevens8870It isnt imperials getting harrassed by the windhelm city guards though, is it?
Trying to excuse the stormcloaks attitudes and actions in anti-colonialism falls apart when the people who did the colonialism are more welcome in Skyrim than OTHER VICTIMS of imperial colonialism.
Also the Nords themselves are an expansionist settler state as easily evidenced by their early history and their current behavior in the reach. They are literally colonists themselves.
They aren’t anti imperialists. They have no philosophical issue with imperialism and frequently engage with it themselves.
Tbh Skyrim is either good because of the dragon born or a slave of the dragon born esp in the last part of the story we ate still kicking
Bethesda games to me have the problem of wanting to be massive scale RPGs but have all the depth and complexity of a digital theme park.
Their plots often involve big, sprawling complicated scenarios, but lack the commitment to dig into that complexity. Their characters exist as little more than archetypes for players to attach to and come back to for quests and goodies. Consequences are lacking because that would potentially force the player to lose out of doing something. And so often, it seems like their games get excused away because players can just choose to not do certain things when they play, despite the fact that their games are designed to be played indefinitely.
This is extra funny bc just like I'd be a main quest-avoider in this, I'm the person who likes the weird small exhibits & shows & rides at the fair that are away from the loud big tent main events.
yo, doba 10 hour Video, thanks
always preferred oblivion story and questlines to skyrim
the levelling thooooooo
As a long time TES fan nothing is more depressing than Skyrim being the breakout success, because it means more of this generic, shallow, first-draft BS is all we will get going forward.
Not an endorsement or Ulfric, but:
I really don’t like the “Ulfric is racist” line of consideration. It essentially singularly accuses a man of racism in a world where ALL the people are racists. Hell, Dunmer are far worse than nords in the regard. Either way, it’s a fool who accuses a leader of blatant racism because there are people under their leadership who do racist things. By that logic, every leader in human history is racist. Tullius would be a racist too.
It’s also narrow minded to ignore social and political implications of trying to tamp out such notions with force, particularly at such an unstable time. We today also have a very “convenient” view of racism in most western nations, having not really suffered true racism in our lifetimes. It’s easy to decry it as flat out evil, worth any cost to root out and destroy- but none of us have been a Japanese boy who lost his family to malicious Chinese torture, experimentation, and invasion. It’s far harder to be a tolerant person when you’ve suffered like that. The reality of it, both historical and fictional (in the case of Skyrim), is far, far more complex than just “this group right, that group wrong.”
Also, I’d like to point out that NOBODY has experience being a king until they’re a king. But Ulfric has proven himself a capable leader who inspires his people and is willing to die alongside them. Not a bad start.
So first, it heing more complicated than "This side good, this side bad" is precisely why people decry racism.
Second, people under a ruler doing bad things is not what Ulfric is accused of. He is the one who keeps the Datk Elves segregated, he is the one who prevents the Argonians from even entering city walls despite the fact they're vital to his trade, and he is the one who refuses to send anyone to hunt bandits so long as those bandits are only targeting non-nords.
Whether or not Ulfric is personally racists is irrelevant. His policies are the cause to the effect of those who aren't Nords being pushed down on. Saying he inspites his people only works as a claim so long as you consider only Nords his people. (And even then, only if you ignore the ones who have signed up to fight against him.) He has done nothing to inspire a large population of his own subjects, unless inspiring hatred of him is what you meant.
@@moonblaze2713 My question is, why is any of that wrong? If the dark elves don't like it why not leave? Tribalism is the natural state of man. I don't think it is a flaw in Ulfric's character that he is not a modern progressive who fails to favor his own people's needs over others. If there is a flaw in Ulfric's approach it is that he might better utilize the Dunmer as an asset if he catered to their needs more. They might be more willing to join his rebellion in that case.
@@Raycloud "If the sea levels rise, the people living along the coasts can just sell their houses." "To who, Ben? Aquaman?"
Where do you expect them to go? They're already as far as their money took them. In Windhelm they've reached the end of their resources. Where are they supposed to go? And how? They were offered succor and got crammed in a box, beyond the material conditions problem why are you blaming them for that?
Tribalism may or may not be a natural state of man, but either way it's not a good one. You've illustrated that yourself by pointing out how the Stormcloaks would have more resources to hand if they had actually earned the Dunmer's loyalty. I could spell out more, but why? If you wont listen to yourself why would you listen to me?
The AD invading Skyrim after they won their independence makes me thing of Germany and France invading Russia. I don’t think the AD could beat the Nords in Skyrim.
Elder Scrolls 10? dude, its been 13 years since Skyrim and 6 still hasn't come out, at this rate, Elder Scrolls 10 will be made in 67 years at least. Elder Scrolls has to survive long enough first to become that long lasting, or they gotta figure out some miracle to start making these games faster and.....I'm not seeing either happening.
Dear talos, please force tod howard to focus on tes 6. I beg you
What if the Lord of Destruction + Revolution is bringing us a better game-master than Todd?
No Todds No Masters
I like people who bring up "Oh man, Ulfric is so racist against the Dunmer!", you know as if the least racist Dunmer didn't make Nords look like MLK by comparison. Remember this, Argonians in Windhelm are underpaid employees while Argonians in Morrowind are farming equipment.
My original script included a long mini-essay about racism in Skyrim and Tamriel as in whole, where I did talk about Dunmer's racism, however I decided to cut it as it was out of topic and tbh, I don't think I had to state the obvious (racism bad). Hence why I only briefly explained levels of racism in Skyrim (Windhelm).
@@StorytellerJaeru Yeah my comment wasn't directed at you, you made it clear enough that the grey quarter was bad but not the worst thing about Ulfric's faction and their plans for Skyrim. I just had to express my annoyance at people who whitewash (no pun intended) the DUnmer as these innocent victims which IMO entirely makes them less interesting as a faction.
@@johnjsneed7591 Other than the ones in power, the Dunmer here are refugees. & just bc Nigel Farage exists doesn't mean I won't correct my uncle when he says something out of pocket about refugees. Just bc she's not "as bad" as Nigel Farage doesn't mean I'm not allowed to side-eye my uncle. & in Skyrim, Morrowind was a long time ago.
I chose ulfric because he was an "ist"
Based king ulfric
Legate Rikke 💗
Why not both? I think it's both overrated and overhated
I do agree with that, as there are other aspects of Skyrim I didn't mention in this video that are actually really good (for instance music and environmental storytelling). I just used those keywords in the thumbnail to make the video more desirable to click at.
Sain sydänkohtauksen kun puhuitkin yhtäkkiä suomea, luulin, että täällä huoneessa on joku. 😂
Anteeksi 😭
This is a decent analysis, but keep studying you only scratch the surface of elder scrolls lore.
Ah, absolutely. My focus was solely to analyze Skyrim. Any facts/lore analysis that happened in earlier games was told to explain the events of Skyrim. I haven't actually played any other ES title than Skyrim and ESO. Although I am planning to!
He / him 🤦♂️ oh god
What's the problem? I just made it clear from the start, as I played with default Nord Male Dragonborn and thought that using they/them (like I have in the past while discussing games with custom characters) for 2 hours could had gotten confusing while addressing both groups and Drgaonborn in same sentence.
@@StorytellerJaeru I appreciated that not just bc it showed me you were a decent person I could give an hour of my time to but precisely bc in games where you choose so much of your identity, I really like it when people introduce me to the consistent character(s) they are going to use so I know who the canonical hero of our journey is. There was nothing wrong with that & Jaeru you're correct that it helps with clarity. But as a fun personable thing, I also just wanna meet the character taking me thru this analysis of the game, & I am sad when people skip telling me their build. So thank you.
Skyrim was shite, people love to point to it being some great game and then say bethesda has lost its way in recent years. Those of us old enough to remember watching the games before skyrim come out were seeing bethesda going down hill with skyrim. But skyrim was so many peoples first elder scrolls and it was before the devs completely lost touch, so its looked at with nostalgic/forgiving eyes by many, when in truth it was the start of bethesdas end and baby first elder scrolls fans cant accept that.
Daggerfall and Morrowind were best.
I dont reply to things or check back on my comments so please dont start an arguement with me here when ill never see it or reply to you.
Overrated, obviously, and terribly so.
No one can say with integrity that Skyrim's story is even approaching well written on an objective level. Subjectively, sure get whatever you want out of it.
Objectively? It's typical Bethesda slop.
52.48
Anyone hating Skyrim is just a massive hipster so there is very little one has to care about their opinion. At launch the game was so good it caused massive surge in PC and console sales, not something that would happen with overrated game.
It is great that you just ignore any type of criticism said about Skyrim purely based on an argument that me or anyone else who criticises it are contrarians or jumping on hate bandwagon because why not. There are PLENTY to criticize about Skyrim and this video only touched the surface as other video-essayists have likely already made entertaining breakdowns on other aspects of Skyrim's mediocrity - like for instance how Skyrim's combat was already dated back when the game released.
Besides there are bunch of different types of media that have been commercially and review-wise successful, but has seen backlash from some keen fans. Easiest examples to bring out to the table would be basically any MCU product released in Phase 4 or Star Wars Force Awakens. I personally wanted to analyse Skyrim as despite my criticism in this video, I do love the game (like I said in the video), but just because I like something, that doesn't mean I can't simultaneously criticise it.
@@StorytellerJaeru You don't get game being called one of the best games of all time just by hype. I have never heard anyone call Star Wars Force Awakens best movies nor best Star War movies of all time. Skyrim having dated combat at release is simply an exaggaration. If that had been the case, it would have been brought up on reviews.
At FA's release, it was widely concerned as a movie that brought Star Wars back. It was also very common to call it better than the prequel films, which is something people these days seem to disagree with it. It also is the fifth highest-grossing film of all-time and sits at 93% review score in Rotten Tomatoes. It is safe to say that it was VERY WELL received at release. And would likely still be if it weren't for fumbles Disney/Lucasfilm has had since then.
Similarly, Skyrim was very well received at the time and got godly reviews, but in modern day, people are criticising it for right reasons. And how is it simply exaggeration? Dark Souls released the same year as Skyrim.
@@StorytellerJaeru Please enlighten me how would you implement Dark Souls combat into first person mode?
In all honesty, this is a terrible take from the start. Skyrim is considered to be one of the most replay-able games of all time and that isn’t just a personal opinion. I don’t think the fact that many people download mods to replay the game diminishes the vanilla version. The argument itself acknowledges that people are replaying this game and that can’t be said for many others.
Skyrim as a whole perhaps. This video is touching only Civil War and the main quest + there are plenty of negative things I could have talked about, but left untouched so that this video wouldn't be 10 hours long.
How tiresome and pointless.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@StorytellerJaeru I'm always so curious about these commenters lol
I open up with the storm cloaks, because I wanted heavy armor. Doesn't mean I agree, especially as I favor Dunmer.
Do you play as Dunmer in Skyrim or another TES?