Hey everyone! The TH-cam algorithm is suddenly being very nice to me, which is a little terrifying but I’m choosing to be excited about it. If this kind of stuff interests you I’m writing a Skyrim essay now, so I hope to have more content out soon-and yes, will definitely upgrade the microphone situation. Thank you all for watching!
As you're writing the script, challenge yourself to go beyond the basic take of "Ulfric racist = Ulfric bad", which seems to be where so many begin & end their examination of the Civil War story. It is far more than disliking a group because of their appearance. The dark elves weren't distrusted because they were dark, but because they were elves. Note that it is impossible to find a single dark elf in Solitude, which might have interesting implications with regard to the acceptance preached compared to the acceptance which is practiced. Looking into the history of the elven nations & how they've dealt with their neighbors might inform a person as to why the mer are so reviled by the other peoples of Tamriel. The conflict goes back into pre-history with the tale of Lorkhan/Shor and the creation of Mundus.
@@Mr._Anderpson Also nords are hardly racist at all especially when you consider the scheme in tamriel. In fact, deliberately choosing to take in so many dunmer refugees AND ceding solstheim to them is only a sign of respect and cooperation, not racism and hatred.
@@falken5688 It should also be pointed out the Red Year occurred two centuries before the events of Skyrim occur. There probably shouldn't be any refugees at that point. I'd imagine anyone who wanted to leave Vvardenfell to flee the eruptions would have managed to do so a bit more quickly than 200 years later. Well, maybe Yagrum Bagarn would take that long to make the trip. He was kinda chunky.
@@Mr._Anderpson Yeah that's a good point as well, but I think bethesda just totally lacks a proper conception of how long 200 years is lol, see fallout 3 and fallout 4. Whichever way you look at it, the racism angle falls apart
please do. your video is one of the best i’ve watched/listened to. i’ve gone through all the ones i could find until i got recommended your video. make one of these for all the games you want, the views and subs will follow
1:38:57 Just for the record, while not a Skyrim type alternative, in Oblivion you can kill Lucien Lachance at first meeting, which basically locks you out of the whole questline. There's even a quest update for that: "Lucien Lachance, the Dark Brotherhood's representative, has been killed. He was my link to the mysterious assassins guild, and now that link has been severed... forever."
tbh, the dark brotherhood, thieves' guild, and shivering isles are where I think oblivion shines brightest. I think I've subconsciously been thinking of them as the "main" game for some years now, with the kvatch situation a thing I can get around to eventually, like any other side quest
It is evident they saw much more time & attention from the developers than other areas of the game. They didn't put too much thought into what a "good" character might do. The option to side with Jyggylag instead of Sheogorath was absent, so that it felt like another railroaded trip through Bethesda's "Illusion of Choice Simulator" engine. I get what you're saying, though. I endure Fallout 4 just to play Far Harbor.
The insanity of Shivering Isles works in it's favor because of how perfect and storybook-like everything is in Oblivion. It's hard to believe Skyrim and Oblivion's Cyrodiil are neighbors given the drastic visual design difference, but Shivering Isles doesn't need to abide by realism
@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish Aside from both games having different art directors.....they're 2 different cultures in 2 different locations. Just because they're in the same world doesn't mean the cities or towns would look the same.
Shivering Isles is what completes oblivion for me, I love playing oblivion, and I can always come back to it as well as morrowind, I have high regards for both morrowind and oblivion, but not skyrim, skyrim is shallow.
Mage guild was cool too. I like how you had to get a letter of recommendation from each town's mage guild branch before actually being able to become a member of the main guild
Cameron's speech was written by Kirkbride, amd Todd loved the first draft so much it made it into the game. I genuinely wonder what it could have looked like if Kirkbride had been allowed to cook. What I find the most ironic in Cameron's speech, is that he asks where the aedra are. Well.....the Aedra made Nirn, the moral realm. Literally. We can't talk to them like we can with the Daedra because they are the earth, stone, and air. They don't exist in the way daedra do now. As for agnosticism or aethism in TES, well there is an argument that it can exist. The Dwemer never denied the daedras existence. They just never felt that the Daedra were worth worshiping. Or the Aedra tbh. Also also. It's really funny that you show the dichotomy of Oblivions potential endings of mantling either Pelinal or Sheogorath. They are both madmen in their own right, so at the end of the day the Hero of Kvatch winds up mad regardless of who they choose. 10/10 video!
Yeah, someone who knows TES lore and has read even the most obscure of MK texts could probably understand and grasp some of the ideas behind Mankar's speech and thoughts (like Dagon being from a previous kalpa), but to the average Oblivion player it means literally nothing, it's all ramblings of a madman, which is almost a fatal flaw in game design. His ideas of Lorkhan being a Daedra sound kinda dumb to me, but there are some evidence of it on the lore, like Lorkhan being a Padomaic entity too (despite the rest of the Aedra being born from Anu+Padomay); And this is speculation on my part but I think only 7 of the ¿17? Daedric princes are relevant: the Good Daedra and the House of Troubles. Lorkhan would be the 8th Daedra, to compete with the 8 Divines. The Aedra are also many more than 8, but most of them became Earth Bones/Ehlnofey, evolving into different nature things and races.
@512TheWolf512 modern bethesda makes games for the masses. Despite how big they are now they refuse to take chances. Starfield doesn't take any risks or really make a name for itself. The don't even have a marketable mascot.
Tonally I feel Oblivion is kind of the black sheep of The Elder Scrolls series. Morrowind and Skyrim feel more grounded, more real in a way. Oblivion honestly feels like not the events that took place but a retelling of what actually happened. Everything looks a bit too ideal, everything feels like a storybook. It's hard to rationalize that this Cyrodiil is the same province that borders Skyrim because they don't really feel like they're in the same world.
I usually interpreted the idyllic & serene setting of Cyrodil as an intentional juxtaposition of the nightmarish realms of Oblivion. Seeing daedra exit a gate & begin attacking the native wildlife is one thing which spurred me to traverse the wilderness shutting them down in my first playthrough years ago.
The destruction of the amulet makes me wonder if Dagon actually won. As the god of hope and revolution, the *destruction* of the amulet seems to allow for both, hitting all three of his notes.
You hit the nail on the head! Dagon does not want to conquer Tamriel, he wants to topple the ailing and stagnant Empire which he does by ending the Septim bloodline and destroying the amulet of King. Dagon played everyone and won.
That basically just means world war Cyrodil, as the other Princes (sans Sheogoroth since he's busy) start scooping up followers and land, and at worst it ends up Jyggallag 2.0 where the rest of the Deadric Princes unite to defeat and then curse him.
Meh I don't know if he won. His ultimate goal was foiled, complete annihilation of the Empire. Yes he destroyed the amulet and ended the Septims, but the Empire exists, humans still have a rallying cause, and the Aedra still have a strong presence.
@@HerohammerStudios Its not "some random empire" its THE Empire that has ruled all of Tamriel for over 500 years (if you only count the Third Empire). Daedric princes often join in on some random petty squabbles of the mortals, so toppling the Empire does not feel beneath Dagon at all. He is the god of Destruction, Revolution and Change so it feels perfect for him to destabilize the Empire and open the way for new forces to rise (Thalmor), the provinces to become independent (Morrowind, Hammerfell, High Rock, Black Marsh) and the civil war in Skyrim. Thats a whole lot of Destruction, Revolution and Change in my opinion.
no because why are they all such good background ;; maybe its because i know tes lore so i can miss a part but tune back in and i know what they're talking about
Thanks for making this honed-in on the story. It's refreshing seeing not just another blanket, general retrospective that touches the same handful of talking points.
TH-camrs have tarnished the word "retrospective". Those are supposed to be an analysis of something long after its release and its impact but they just end being summarizing the plot using the whole fucking dictionary
I have never heard anyone talking about the feudal nature of society in Cyrodiil and the lacking depth of social interaction with NPCs. Thank you so much for a fresh perspective! I guess, I'll never look at this game the way I did. Back when Oblivion was released, these detailes seemed almost obscure.
Patriciantv addressed it, but very briefly. Because his video counted on those in the know, or those who played morrowind. Basically, Bethesda doesn't want to write actual racists anymore. Or any other genuinely evil people.
Oh wow this is your first video? That’s insane, we definitely need more long-form creators and reviewers on the platform, good work! Will definitely listen while at work.
It's interesting he's brought up since he's sort of an inverse of the player character of Oblivion. An advisor who helps Tiber septim claim his throne and fight back an invasion. Only Tiber Septim betrayed his trust and used it to conquer high rock. I feel like Oblivion players could have used more back story
@@yasahana4447 heck yeah, I'd like to know more! It's so interesting to see players' comments esp under a really thoughtful essay like this. I can't play games rn & missed TES when I was gaming but I love gaming essays/analyses & I see so many comments like yours that make me frustrated the lore wasn't used more within the games. It seems like they have so much to play with, & it's tucked away or downplayed or just too missable when it sounds like it'd just deepen the immersion if they kept the lore more "present" in the world/game.
Good video so far. At 1:22:50 it never occurred to me that Mankar's speech probably just sounds like gibberish to most people, since I beat Morrowind before beating Oblivion's main quest and Lorkhan is a major part of Morrowind. 1:27:30 I think a failing of the game is that it always calls Mehrunes Dagon the Prince of Destruction but it never mentions his other spheres of influence, Revolution and Change. Much like with Lorkhan, you have to go looking for supplementary content to get a picture of what Dagon is. I and some others in the community think that Martin's sacrifice was the end goal of Dagon's plan the whole time. The Daedra deliberately decided not to attack the Temple of Akatosh that Martin was in. With Knights of the Nine we see there is nothing actually preventing Daedra from just walking into a church and slaughtering people. Dagon set Mankar up for failure so Martin could get everything he needed for us to get him to the Temple and sacrifice himself. I think we may have had more fleshing out of the two villains if Oblivion didnt have to worry about squeezing onto a single DVD, since they had to cut a lot of dialogue to save file space.
I like that theory! And I didn’t know that about Dagon-you’re definitely right, leaning into the Revolution and Change aspects more would’ve added some much-needed depth to him and the realm of Oblivion. An Elder Scrolls villain built around combatting the cultural and technological stagnation in Tamriel would be fascinating.
One thing about oblivion is the setting was incredibly dumbed down, at least in major direction. The previous parts of the lore that made things like the daedra less absolute evil and more something in-between, something they can choose. Same with the underking and other lore characters that appear.
The second point is easy to explain. Pagliarulo, one of the main writers, is a devout christian since childhood. So basically he bastardised kirkbride's idea into another american interpretation of Satan.
This is a fantastic analysis, I desperately hope TH-cam doesn't knock you down because you very easily could become the VaatiVidya of the elder acrolls
I've second-monitored my way through pretty much all of the TES video essay content on youtube, and this is by far my favorite analysis of Oblivion's narrative ☺️
Great job with this. Once I heard you speaking on the pastoral themes I knew this was one of the king elder scrolls videos actually worth listening to. It’s crazy how much poverty plays a role in the world but is ignored by everyone.
Just watched the video and I really enjoyed it! I hope you make more. Something worth pointing out: your thesis of the empire being oppressive, corrupt, and crumbling has been a cornerstone of The Elder Scrolls from Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind. However, in all those cases, the player was working to *uphold* that system. When you cut past the mystic symbolism and the mentions of fate, prophesy, the gods, etc, what are you left with? In Daggerfall, you were a friend of the emperor and your ultimate objective is to dethrone the rulers of no less than 5 regions of Hammerfall and High Rock, unify a region that is, both figuratively and literally (due to the map design), the size and diversity of the entirety of Europe and northern Africa under the rule of a single family that would be unquestioningly loyal to the Empire. In Morrowind, you are inducted as a spy that directly works for the emperor as the price of your freedom. Morrowind is the only region of Tamriel that, while still a vassal of the Empire, is free to govern itself thanks to the power of their triumvirate of God-Kings. Your goal - as a *potential* Nerevarine - is to destroy the source of the God-Kings' power, become a cultural icon and leader of the people of Morrowind, and collapse the church of the tribunal...leaving a power vacuum in the territory that will be swiftly filled by the Empire, who already had soldiers, forts, and colonizers spread around the island of Vvardenfell just waiting. Oblivion's falling is the very clear push to make Oblivion more light-hearted and whimsical. Yet the ideas and lore from the past titles permeates the writing of Oblivion and you can see peeks of this darker past and the implications they carry.
Eh, Daggerfall is about two things. On the one hand, there's the Totem of Tiber Septim that can be used to (re)activate the Numidium that has been recently found. You can give it to Wayrest, Sentinel or Daggerfall and thus enable one of them to become the dominant faction in the Iliac Bay; you can give it to Mannimarco who'll achieve godhood with it; to the Underking, who will be able to finally rest in peace; to Gorthwog, the king of the Orcs, who will use it so no one can mess with the Orcs ever again; or you can give it to Lady Brisienna, the Blades' agent, and thus allow the Emperor to rule the Bay with an iron fist. But as the player is an agent of the Emperor, such an outcome is indeed a viable possibility. Then there's the Lysandus story, where you need to avenge the former king of Daggerfall so that his spirit may finally rest in peace and stop haunting the streets of Daggerfall at night. On Morrowind, you're a Blades' agent. So while you fulfill the Prophecy, you're still working for the Empire thus ensuring that Morrowind stays under imperial control. And you give some additional legitimacy to the Empire's presence and claim to rule in Morrowind, since, well, the long gone and prophesized to return hero of the Dunmer people is an imperial lackey.
Finally, a distinctly unique longform critique on Oblivion! Love the analytical narrative approach you took, connecting the story, lore and worldbuilding of the game to form a vision and understanding of the game like I haven't seen anyone do before. People like PatricianTV, WillLovesVideoGames and Private Sessions, that I've seen talking about Oblivion at length, focused too much on describing the details of the game and evaluating its systems, like graphics, combat, levelling, quests, maybe music and lore, without talking much about the interesting themes and motifs that you could extract out of the narrative. Only people like Noah Caldwell-Gervais and you here on TH-cam manage to dig deep into the stories, worlds and characters behind the games and relate that to your audiences, which I greatly appreciate. edit: I would really like to hear your thoughts on previous Elder Scrolls games, too, specifically Morrowind - with probably the best world, lore and narrative in the series. You focus briefly in the video on Lorkhan, saying that it's just a passing reference in Oblivion, but don't mention that the whole idea of Lorkhan was established back in Daggerfall, and explored thoroughly in Morrowind, with the Dwemer and the Tribunal explicitly dealing with the Heart of Lorkhan in that same game.
Thank you! I love Noah Caldwell-Gervais’ work, his channel is a big inspiration for me. I will probably circle back to Morrowind at some point since I know it’s a huge favorite for a lot of folks. I was hoping for a remaster since I’ve struggled to get into it the few times I tried, but one of these days I’ll just download some mods and push through the meh gameplay for what I hear is a much more interesting story.
@@DukeofWhales Can confirm: with some quality of life mods, you'll probably enjoy the best Elder Scrolls narrative. It's not perfect, but it's development and themes are far better executed than Oblivion and Skyrim.
@@DukeofWhales Hope you do get around to playing morrowind, I've really enjoyed your skyrim and oblivion videos and would love to hear your thoughts on tes3. I was in the same seat as you a while ago, having tried and failed to get into Morrowind, but it finally clicked on my latest attempt. What helped was understanding that it was going for more of a pen-and-paper like experience with dice roll combat and a much bigger focus on character creation. It can be a good idea to read through the manual before playing, which was common practice at the time (it's not very long). This will make the character creation part feel less intimidating and also teach some important mechanics. It's also worth remembering that you are absolute trash at everything you didn't pick as a starting skill, common mistake is trying to kill mudcrabs with the tutorial dagger without picking short blade as a starting skill (you will miss 90% of your attacks). Buy a weapon that you have as a major skill in the shop in Seyda Neen first thing you do. I think Morrowind combat can be fun, but more in the way that building an OP D&D character is fun than the way Skyrim combat is fun. Morrowind has a very different power curve with much less level scaling and a much greater willingness to throw large numbers at the player which can be very satisfying once you get over the hump. It is very clucky and underwhelming at the start, but this serves to make becoming a demigod later in the game more satisfying.
I agree Duke is special, but there are lots of great people doing thematic/storytelling game analyses. There's room for many & it's great to see a new generation come up who were inspired by Noah, along with lesser known contemporaries like Grim Beard who grew slow + steady. I'm not arguing for anything other than a flowering of the genre via plurality. Multiplicity makes me happy so I get miffed when people try to say JUST THIS 1 PERSON. Like, go under any pre-2000s music videos & there's always someone saying this 1 singer/band were the ONLY ONES or BEST ONES & it's never true but always pointless. You can have your faves but don't erase a whole genre with multiple diverse creators contributing. Absolutely feel you on wanting to hear Duke take on Morrowind tho!
One of the best TES video's I've heard. Im a bit of a maniacal fan of the franchise but your perspective, wording and ways of description are simply amazing
Im fairly certain the reason why Cameron could wear the amulet was because in his paradise he could make himself "Dragonborn" or at least of Dragons blood. He was also supposed to be a Bosmer and appears in game as an Altmer. Apparently it all boils down to numedium or some other lore buzzword giving him In Character access to the TES Creation Kit and Console.
That's one interesting thing about the lore community. We get a chance to see how religions are formed in real time. Rather than accept human error in a text which would lead to mistranslation (someone clicked the wrong box when creating Mankar), the priests sit around & think up a new theology to explain why it must be true.
I guess the meta reason is just because nobody would take a Bosmer as a serious threat. Picture Fargoth sitting on a marble throne, legs barely reaching the floor, giving you a speech how he will end you and bring down the empire
@@Zajin13 That's because most people are simple enough to take Fargoth & attempt to paint him as the exemplar of an entire race. If we took Narfi, the mentally-ill Nord vagrant from Ivarstead as our example of all Nords, we would hardly think they could be intimidating.
I first found oblivion at a blockbuster recommending it to my step brother 5 or so years later I asked my dad to buy it for me and I loved it ever since even more then skyrim
i've watched tens of hours of TES content and within the first 10 min of your video i learn two things i've not heard anyone else mention. amazing! i hope you get more views on this!
This video is fantastic and inspired me to delve into the lore more than I have done in some time. I’m eager to see whether you do another video on Skyrim as there’s plenty there for you to compare to Oblivions execution. One thing that has come to mind recently after watching this video is how little Martin Septims sacrifice is mentioned in Skyrim. Talos worship is banned but something as monumental as an Emperor, even a bastard child, channeling the avatar of Akatosh to banish a Daedric Prince and save Tamriel from an Invasion from Oblivion feeling like it’s been scrubbed from history is strange. It kind of makes me feel bad for Martin
I think the deeper I go on the lore, the more I’m convinced Oblivion has the best main story by quite a bit. The implications of Cameron’s theories about the Aedra and Daedra and their relationship to Nirn, the idea that Dagon actually fully achieved his plan in living up to his status as the prince of revolution and change by ending the Septim dynasty. I feel Oblivion actually touched on the most fundamental and fascinating aspects of the ES universe the writers created.
I think Ocato meant he didnt want to leave the provinces alone retiring the legion aid against the daedra. Which is weird since in canon the provinces complained because he did in fact move troops towards the capital
1:08:08 Weirdly enough, some NPCs talk about how the Empire is pulling troops from Black Marsh *("I hear the Legions have been recalled from Fort Swampmoth in Black Marsh, and many of the Argonian slaves have returned to their tribes.")* and in Skyrim we heard about how they "abandoned" Morrowind. It may be a case of revisionism, propaganda or unreliable narrator though. In my opinion it makes total sense to have the Empire recalling the legions to Cyrodiil, it's like when Rome abandoned Britannia to saxons and picts to defend the more central and "important" provinces, like Italia or Gallia. The fact that we don't see these legions in-game may indicate that they had trouble on the way (maybe dealing with the provinces' Oblivion gates pouring hordes of demons). Also, about the Empire being imperialist and crumbling: during TES 3:Morrowind we get to see the Septim empire as an occupation force, which is even colonizing the annexed province and sending their companies to extract Vvanderfell resources (Caldera's ebony mine company and Solsthem/Ebonheart East Empire Company). Some of the locals also speculate about the possibility of a succession crisis *("The Emperor is over eighty, and in poor health. He has two declared heirs, Enman and Ebel, but there are rumors of controversy over the succession in the Imperial City")* and even things like the Imperial guard killing mobs of people who accuse Uriel's sons of being impostors (sus) placed by Jagar Tharn *("They say the Guard charged a mob demanding destruction of the false heirs... lots of folks were killed.")* 1:12:08 It actually refers to Alessia's heirs, which is a way to say "Dragonborn" (as she was the first until Miraak was introduced). Tiber Septim/Talos was a nord who probably had nothing to do with Alessia, at least "genetically". Still, the Septim dynasty could still be considered as "the only ones who could rule" because they are all Dragonborn, and it's very hard to find one of those. Mankar Camoran is actually another "dragonborn" as he could wear the Amulet, yet he did so by using a magic dagger to cut reality and cut his own destiny/soul/whatever. We even have a "reference" of sorts of Skyrim's Thu'um in the Commentaries : _Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. _*_When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire_*
1:20:59 This is wayy too meta, barely referenced in the Commentaries, but Mehrunes Dagon is supposedly a being created on an alternative version of Tamriel/Nirn (or a previous "kalpa") called Lyg. Dagon was made as a deity of Hope by the Magna Ge, and with that hope he rebelled against the rulers of Lyg and destroyed them and their cities and continents. Maybe Mankar saw this daedra as literally that, a hope for a better world who can, through his title of "Prince of Destruction", destroy the Old Order, the Ancien Régime. Maybe the Paradise that Mankar created went wrong, as in that he tried to imitate the idylic world of Tamriel pre-Man/Mer or a previous, more chill kalpa (a "vision from the past") but brought with him all the corruption of the already existent worlds (both from the corrupted mortals of Tamriel and the horrible daedras of Oblivion), including his own corruption (the Daedra seem to attack ALL except Mankar and his children, they are the royalty/Septims oppresing the people).
Great video! Oblivion was my first real RPG and I have a lot of fond memories attached to it. That ghost quest you mentioned reminded me of when I napped on the ship tavern in the waterfront and then woke up on the high seas after pirates had taken it.
So this video, as well as the Firewatch and Skyrim essays, popped up in my feed today. Wonderful surprise for me, as I love video essays. However, when I saw you’ve only published four videos, I can only describe my shock as intense. You convey your points with a deep understanding and appreciation of the game you’re covering. I leave every video feeling more knowledgeable on the subject you discussed. This content is outstanding! Please keep this up. You’re going places.
Fantastic video. Your analysis is deep, well researched, yet also engaging and with just the right amount of levity. Really looking forward to more videos from you!
Holy crap you started this channel a YEAR ago and TH-cam didn't tell me. Saw your firewatch critique first, subbed immediately after, now its time for a marathon of the backlog! Thank you for thinking deeper about games. This is 9000% what I'm here for
Truly love these analyses. I disagree with a few things. But this is super refreshing compared to people using these games as a cheap way to gain views. This is great content. Thank you! It’s been refreshing to revisit these stories in a fair, analytical way. You’ve gained a new fan!
Just found your channel and let me say as a video game studies student, you’re actually doing the kind of work we love. Your narrative critique provides a strong basis for us to study the mechanics behind the narrative (whether the mechanics are intentional or not). Fantastic work!
I’ve binged every single video of yours and I gotta say I really appreciate how you articulate your feelings and opinions in them. Even if I disagree with you on one point I can still say “Okay, I see where he’s coming from”. Also, the editing is really on point and I appreciate the improvement on the quality of your mic over time. So, please please keep the vids coming, you’ve got a real talent for this!
Love your videos man. I love long form content and your work brings a unique and fresh perspective. I always prefer an analysis of story and narrative over splitting hairs on each gameplay mechanic.
Real banger of a debut essay, I think it gets at the core of why so much big budget stuff that's pushing technical boundaries can kind of fall apart when you try to approach it from a literary perspective. When you make the technical achievement (whether that's the graphics, or the scale, or the radiant npcs) your top priority, to the point that it overshadows any thematic potential present in the material, you wind up with something that will grab the attention and stick in the memory--because it is fun! It is impressive!--but might not hold up to closer scrutiny, and certainly won't stand the test of time in the way that works with a stronger conceptual foundation do. Because those goalposts of technical quality are always going to be shifting, but art that deeply resonates with people has the potential to do so far into the future. I do get that there is an argument to be made for works that push those technical boundaries as the strides they make can improve the medium for all works made down the line, but I don't think that's any reason not to critically engage with them and what they have to say, just because that wasn't the foremost priority in their development.
I really enjoyed your thoughts and ideas about Oblivion. This was excellent work I certainly didn't think I would find on a smaller channel. Well, you're 1 member larger now. Great work sir
Wow mate great video. Clicked on your channel and only then realized it was your first. Glad this was recommended to me, I can't wait to see what else you plan on putting out
When I first played Oblivion way back in 2007, I only fast traveled to places I had already been. It was my first game of its kind and I wanted to explore every nook and cranny. I went everywhere in Cyrodiil on foot first and foremost.
Great Video! You can tell much work where going into it. At 1:30:00 following you say, that Cyrodiil isnt really damaged. But Kvatch is litterally destroyed, in every Oblivion Gate you find dead people. In cities there are going people missing. At the end, its not only the temple. The imperial city is burning. That not many NPCs die, its a consequence of gameplay. If the imperial citie would be dead after the main quest, it would hurt the following gameplay and lock you out of quests. The crisis causes even in Oblivion, without the Skyrim lore, heavy damage.
i love your critiques and I use it as background while I work on making 3d models. honestly can't work without some lore or review or such going on in the background and your videos have been so fun to listen too. really keep my brain working.
I never used fast travel during my First ever play through of Oblivion, & the game IS So much better that way! There are so many things you will inevitably miss, if you just fast travel.. The game is meant to be explored, experienced & enjoyed!
I've heard other people say that a no-fast-travel run is better, but I just don't understand why. With so much backtracking and jumping back and forth between towns that following most questlines entails, when I tried it the travelling made the game super monotonous. The staggering amount of times a quest sends you across the map for a short dungeon or conversation before sending you back was crazy to me, given that this came just after Morrowind. I feel like they made the game with the intent of players fast travelling everywhere. That being said, don't let me stop you from enjoying games the way you like. Taste is subjective, so what's good for one of us may not be for the other.
@@kappacat I admit some of it can be monotonous and boring, however there are things that you come across when traveling out in the open world that you would not get to have experienced, if you did not manually run there yourself in other words if you fast travel you would go past it and miss it… Not to mention the fact that you’re getting way more experience for every single one of your skills that you are using such as athletics, archery, acrobatics fighting with swords and black weapons etc., you’re getting more experience due to you getting in more fights as you travel as well as you’re getting more gear and stuff to sell and it just ends up making it a much more worthwhile experience for somebody who is looking for that type of experience! This comment is all the more true closer to the time when the game came out and it was truly revolutionary, to say something like this nowadays, it is kind of more so monotonous due to the fact that there are more sophisticated experiences out there to be had-
@@kappacat take the Witcher three wild hunt nowadays: I know fast travel run in the Witcher three wild Hunt is also just amazing, but there are times where you just about how to fast trouble either the distance being so far away or the fact that you’re over encumbered and you need to get on the horse and then fast travel to the nearest area to sell everything… just an amazing game with so much stuff riddled throughout the world for you to stumble upon and Find! This is the way oblivion was when it first came out, nowadays it seems harder to do that mainly because it’s dated nowadays and it doesn’t seem as grand as it once did? Having a grand sense of wanting to explore as well as wanting to level your character in the most efficient way is what a no fast travel run is really all about? It can be the most enjoyable thing if that’s what you’re looking for, and you love going on and off the beaten path, setting out and seeing what you find? But if you’re more the type of person that just wants to go to the next cinematic interaction with another person or to the next area where you’re going to have to fight a few enemies, well that can be fine too but I argue that that is not as fun due to the fact that you’re just magically jumping around a world that was designed for you to explore?
Great analysis. I really enjoyed it! Though one thing I may not necessarily agree with is how you interpreted Martin being a bastard as a result of Uriel simply being a lustful man. Although, that might be the case, I personally interpret Martin to be Uriel's final contingency plan should anything happen to his legitimate bloodline. The man is an emperor so it's no surprise that there would be many people in Tamriel and beyond who would want him and his entire dynasty dead. What also reinforces this theory is that Uriel knew of Martin's existence and it seems like he kept constant surveillance on him. I don't think Uriel would have wasted the Blades' time for that sort of thing if he didn't have plans for Martin. And as we can see from the events of Oblivion, if it wasn't for Uriel's lustful "accident", there would have been no way to stop the daedric invasion.
Another fantastic addition to my growing collection of multi-hour oblivion retrospectives. I'm truly astounded they keep coming out I can't image how much work these things take.
If Oblivion is more “empty” then Skyrim in the areas off the roads, I think it’s fine. I think it makes sense for the roads to barely have any danger as Cyrodiil is the heart of the Empire, which has a standing army, it’s also the trade center of all Tamriel due to the Empire’s influence. Thus it makes sense the roads would be safer then Skyrim, imagine Skyrim and other provinces as like out in the suburbs, more spread out and less densely populated, thus higher chance of dangerous animals in the woods, vs a city which is what Cyrodiil is like more densely populated and visited, thus not as many dangerous animals. Especially since the Legion patrols a lot. Do safer roads.
I always thought it was really immersion breaking to have a cave full of hagravens just be chilling right next to a main road. Or every fort taken over by weak bandits.
I foresee this channel having 200k+ subs within a couple more uploads. Absolutely amazing content, and i have literally never felt the slightest pang of desire to play Oblivion, ever. I'd love to see more narrative critiques of all the side quests, or even different games. I'd love to see this channel do a video on Morrowind also.
Amazing video, especially for a first time creator! Voiced dialogue is a big reason why this game falters. Half the disk was taken up by dialogue. You can't have as many dialogue options as a game like Daggerfall or Morrowind. In daggerfall you can ask every NPC about every faction and where you can find any shops, but the lines are all repeated and are only affected by the mysterious faction and reputation system that runs in the background. Morrowind did this sort of encyclopedic dialogue much better. It seems like the transition from unvoiced to voiced dialogue was a very rocky one. It was never possible to have a ton of interesting branching conversations. Either way, they could have prioritized giving some more important dialogue options more depth and removed some exposition-only dialogue. I never picked up on these hidden themes about the empire and beggars, and I think this is because Oblivion never prompts you to think critically about anything. It never gives you a dialogue option that makes you realize that there could be more to this world than the surface level.
Great video! You hit on a lot of things that make Oblivion (and, tbh, Elder Scrolls in general) fun and frustrating to engage with, especially in regards to how much Oblivion seems to stumble into commentary rather than actually attempt to say much of anything.
Your content is SO good. I love listening when I’m winding down for bed. I can watch them in parts so i have enough content for a few days before bed for about 15-20mins at a time! I love how you describe your work as something for a second monitor bc when i set my second one up again, i can see myself listening. I do like paying proper attention though. As an autistic woman whose special interest is the elder scrolls, i am HYPE! Thank you :)
I just watched this and the Skyrim video, these are incredibly well dome and thought out commentaries. Hats off to you, sir! I hope you create other such commentaries.
Actually, I just realized I forgot mention the most important detail about the Zogok’s design: apparently it and its fellow Jaburo attack MS weren’t so much designed as amphibious MS, but rather as wetland or swamp use units, given Jaburo’s terrain. A small, but important difference that means that these units weren’t considering combat in underwater cruising mode. In the other hand, the hip wire cutter weapon reminded me of another unit that might actually have a similar role as the Zogok: the MS-07G-1 Gouf Vijayanta, a unit designed breach obstacles & work in tandem with firepower focused MS-07G-2 Gouf Tactical Assault Type (pretty much the same role as the MSM-04G Juagg). It replaces the heat rod with a scissor anchor launcher, which it supposedly uses for climbing, though the “scissor” part of the name suggests it is also used for cutting obstacles. As for the extending arms, they vary a lot depending on the source, but even early on we saw the Acguys using theirs to leap around the Jaburo caves. IIRC, the Daughtseat units (coming in two variants) from After War Gundam X had some of the longest extending arms among all amphibious MS. On a side note, color scheme of the Zogok is… interesting, at least considering some of the units that have come up in recent years. Case in point, the AMX-101S Gallus S from AoZ not only shows a guard type using similar colors, but also had a development tree with a few other units using similar colors, which would include the Gyan Eos, the Gaz-R and the Charles Rochester custom Gelgoog RF, as well as the captured F90 in Mars Zeon configuration, most of which are considered knight or guard type units. Finally, as for descendants of the Zogok, I could imagine a OMSM-08RF which added chest beam shower weapons like those of the OMSM-07RF. Ironically, this unit could also borrow the beam sword of the OMS-07RF as a sort of homage. By the way, the on going F90 manga actually added a OMS-18ERF Kampfer RF to the roster of the Oldsmobile units, so there do might be hope for a Zogok RF. Speaking of F90, if you want an idea for an obscure amphibious unit check the Karcharias from Randegger Heavy Industries, which appeared in U.C. 0112.
A little bit of a note about your musings on the Underking, and the nature of the Empire as an oppressor: while, if you view Oblivion in a vacuum, he may seem like a completely random villain, but he's actually a pivotal plot character from Daggerfall (Elder Scrolls 2) as well as an extremely important historical figure. Bethesda's intent with that part of the story was likely not on any narrative weight, but on enriching the setting and reinforcing continuity - the Underking was (depending on which sources you believe) a victim of terrible injustice at the hands of Tiber Septim, and dedicated his unlife to both opposing the bloody, brutal conqueror's will and dismantling the Tower-That-Walks that is Numidium. It makes perfect sense for the Underking to have assaulted Sancre Tor, as it had become the resting place of Tiber Septim himself. For people who had stuck around since TES2, this would make the world seem more real - like the characters live in it and affect it rather than just popping into existence for the one game that they were made for. Furthermore, if you look to the immediate predecessor to Oblivion, TES3: Morrowind, you get to see what the Imperials right before their collapse look like in the provinces. They're a dispassionate colonizing force - one that any person from any race is welcome with and can prosper under, but also one that actively and constantly works to undermine local power structures, erode local culture, and replace local religion with their own (an Imperial Pantheon that is outright stated to be an artificial construct to serve as a religious compromise between the elves and men of Cyrodiil). If you join the Imperial Legion, immediately after taking the oath where you swear to always carry yourself as the "Model Imperial Citizen" and protect the public trust, you're given the orders to walk up to a poor grieving widow's house (who is currently getting by off of the generosity of her community) and secure the deed to her house so you can build another watchtower on its foundations. In the history of Skyrim as a province, the Imperials have long since done this to Skyrim MULTIPLE times, with Ulfric's rebellion being merely the latest of several attempts from the Nordic people to throw off the centuries-long eradication of Nordic culture. Hell, the Nords at that point don't even honor their own gods - Shor, Stuhn, Tsun, Kyne, Jhunal, and the others! They place their greatest faith in Talos - the mythologized version of the founder of the latest Cyrodiilic power to oppress them! The Imperials have assimilated the Nords so heavily that the Nords WORSHIP the first Septim! The Empire is a cosmopolitan multiracial beacon of tolerance, but it is also at the end of the day an empire. A political machine that exists to conquer foreign land, take their resources, and destroy their culture so utterly that they cannot think of a way to live that isn't Cyrodiilic... which is interesting, because its culture is framed in direct contrast to the local cultures we've seen that are in active opposition to it (the violent Nords of Skyrim, and the enslaving Dunmer of Morrowind). Do you view it as just to support cultural erasure and dispassionate oppression, if the locals are xenophobic in the extreme? Is the way of life of a people really that important if the Empire makes the provinces more prosperous and safe? Should a people have the right to self determination if they make worse decisions than the people they rail against? Is tradition or pragmatism more vital to the soul of an ethnicity?
Loved the video! I especially appreciated how you delved into plot structure and media literacy. You might enjoy the work of KM Weiland on plot arcs. Looking forward to hearing your reflections on Skyrim, because that story is narratively quite interesting, if only in how ambitious it is. And if you get to it, an analysis of the plot of Daggerfall would be awesome.
Amazing critique, and definitely a unique one considering all the different retrospectives and other critiques out there. Can't wait to see your next video!
Popped up on my recommended, watched his videos without paying any mind to subscribers thinking he had over 100K, come to find out he is just over 10K, phenomenal work, very high production. PLEASE keep this up
Hey, this isn't fodder for my second monitor! It's fodder for helping me fall asleep ❤ edit: I have now finished the video after several nights, I can reaffirm that it's great! Hadn't thought about Oblivion this much in a decade.
1:08:05 this is because the oblivion crisis happened across Tamriel. To remove the legion would show the empire was loyal only to itself and not it's subject states.
1:58:33 I'm imagining the player character asking for ~100 gold before handing over the amulet, and this just _immediately_ prompts dialogue to close before he punches you in the face, takes the amulet, and says "Now listen: We're both going to pretend you just told a silly joke and move on. Understood?"
Fantastic analysis and I cannot wait for what you cover next. I never got very far into oblivion, I think for me my main experience of rpgs had been linear stories like Final Fantasy, but also KOTOR and other BioWare classics (Please do dragon age if you can!) I’ve always viewed games as a new way to tell stories. And I think what has always been missing for me from Bethesda games is the companions, the relationships, the stories that you build with them. You can build it in these games yourself but in general I don’t want to hang with the Npcs. As for story complexity, I think its lacking from a lot of triple a titles, there might be nods to something deeper but in order to create general appeal it stops short.
Responding to the question "what good is the Septim Empire if it allowed its people to live like this?" I believe Empires exist for their own sake, especially in a medieval world where values of liberty and equality probably don't exist and haven't been invented. The fact that there exists disparity between people probably isn't even registered as a "bad" thing by people in Tamriel, especially if they don't feel they are responsible for it. In a sense, that is no different to how things where before a unifying empire existed. When you question a state's legitimacy to rule you got to ask what is the alternative. If the Empire was to crumble and disappear there would be a huge power vacuum and the powers that seek to fill it may not be any better than the Empire for the citizenry. Like the Thalmor.
You make valid points so far but i want to pause the video to make a small correction sir, the underking is a fully fleshed out villain and we know quite a bit about him. The thing is, this is lore that was established in a previous game, Daggerfall, where he was one of the main antagonists. For this reason i feel like while your overall criticisms are valid, this statement about the underking didn't apply. Oblivion is the elder scrolls 4, it should go without saying that there will be nods and references to previous games without being fully explained. This would be like starting at return of the king and criticizing it for not explaining the events of fellowship and two towers fully. On a side note, we know who the deep ones are too. Answers are there for anyone that digs deep enough but my point was specifically on your comments of the underking. Anyways, back to the video!
genuinely my favourite TH-camr. one of the only game reviewers who engage so deeply with the content. you're clearly extremely intelligent and you're a great storyteller. thanks for all your content mate
I have it on good authority that the lead writer for Oblivion wanted to do away with the main quest entirely. They felt the storylines elsewhere were reason enough to explore!
I honestly think you’ve put ten times more thought into the nuanced parallels of Cyrodiil’s inhabitants, environments, and narratives than Bethesda ever did. They seem more like the kind of happy coincidences that arise when a dev team dumps every generic fantasy trope they can gather into a single melting pot.
The Imperial City is clearly the Roman Empire. Cyrodiil was a jungle, narratively, but the LOTR movies success led the dev team to turn Cyrodiil into Middle Earth.
i like morrowinds approach to the 'choosen one' trope yes, you are the choosen one... IF you can convice everyone around you of it by deeds that a prophecy foretold. and on your way, you can see so many people who have tried to do the very same you havent been the first, and you will likely fare the same, dying in horror and pain somewhere, forgotten after just a few weeks by the inhabitants of this strange land an buried under the ashwind... when you finally unite the ashland tribes, or become the hortator, it feels earned, because you didnt achieve that because of a prophecy, the prophecy instead is just what allows you to have a path to go by, a few general steps that you will wish to follow. you are even allowed to kill people that would be important to the main plot, dooming your world in the process, and proving, that a prophecy dosnt automatically make you a hero, just because you happen to match two or three of its criteria.
I actually don't play it on my second monitor. I play it on my first with nothing else on while I go to bed. I love these kinds of long videos for that and your voice is soothing enough, so you have one new subscriber. Go Team Sleep!
It's the Ayleids. That's how the Mythic Dawn knows of the secret passage. The White-Gold Tower was built by Ayleids, and they worshipped the Daedra. Of course they'd know of the secret passages.
“Someone must always be suffering in the lava” also reminds me of the Ursla K. Le Quin book about the City, where there is one child who lives the worst possible life of poverty and illness and frailty, to maintain the utopia
1:11:28 the significance of this line wasn't lost on me playing Skyrim either - "...if the Empire should slacken it's dedication to the *Nine* Divines" The Thalmor knew exactly what they were doing when they banned Talos worship
Keep it up dude. Haven't finished the video yet but you have major talent! "Weightless" is the perfect description for Oblivion! I love the game but it's true.
Dude this analysis was such a breath of fresh air! I love Oblivion and hearing your takes about what works, and how lots of content and the use of the setting was also such a missed opportunity was great. I love a good hero story and I don't think they needed to reinvent the wheel with Oblivion, but MAN they really didn't do anything with what they had for the main quest. I still love it, but its still a tad disappointing.
Hey everyone! The TH-cam algorithm is suddenly being very nice to me, which is a little terrifying but I’m choosing to be excited about it. If this kind of stuff interests you I’m writing a Skyrim essay now, so I hope to have more content out soon-and yes, will definitely upgrade the microphone situation. Thank you all for watching!
As you're writing the script, challenge yourself to go beyond the basic take of "Ulfric racist = Ulfric bad", which seems to be where so many begin & end their examination of the Civil War story. It is far more than disliking a group because of their appearance. The dark elves weren't distrusted because they were dark, but because they were elves. Note that it is impossible to find a single dark elf in Solitude, which might have interesting implications with regard to the acceptance preached compared to the acceptance which is practiced.
Looking into the history of the elven nations & how they've dealt with their neighbors might inform a person as to why the mer are so reviled by the other peoples of Tamriel. The conflict goes back into pre-history with the tale of Lorkhan/Shor and the creation of Mundus.
@@Mr._Anderpson Also nords are hardly racist at all especially when you consider the scheme in tamriel. In fact, deliberately choosing to take in so many dunmer refugees AND ceding solstheim to them is only a sign of respect and cooperation, not racism and hatred.
@@falken5688 It should also be pointed out the Red Year occurred two centuries before the events of Skyrim occur. There probably shouldn't be any refugees at that point. I'd imagine anyone who wanted to leave Vvardenfell to flee the eruptions would have managed to do so a bit more quickly than 200 years later.
Well, maybe Yagrum Bagarn would take that long to make the trip. He was kinda chunky.
@@Mr._Anderpson Yeah that's a good point as well, but I think bethesda just totally lacks a proper conception of how long 200 years is lol, see fallout 3 and fallout 4. Whichever way you look at it, the racism angle falls apart
please do. your video is one of the best i’ve watched/listened to.
i’ve gone through all the ones i could find until i got recommended your video.
make one of these for all the games you want, the views and subs will follow
while you were relegated to my second monitor in the physical realm while i mindlessly played minecraft, you were on my primary monitor in my heart
Awww
Damn bro nice
1:38:57 Just for the record, while not a Skyrim type alternative, in Oblivion you can kill Lucien Lachance at first meeting, which basically locks you out of the whole questline. There's even a quest update for that:
"Lucien Lachance, the Dark Brotherhood's representative, has been killed. He was my link to the mysterious assassins guild, and now that link has been severed... forever."
That's a good catch, thanks!
That “forever” at the end is chilling. Like missing out on a big part of your adventure
I just started playing Oblivion and I killed Lucien Lachance because I made a character that's not a murderer.
@lucianwong420 not to detract from your character, but to even encounter Lucien Lechance, you would have had to murder someone in cold blood.
@@lucianwong420You murdered someone because youre not a murderer?
tbh, the dark brotherhood, thieves' guild, and shivering isles are where I think oblivion shines brightest. I think I've subconsciously been thinking of them as the "main" game for some years now, with the kvatch situation a thing I can get around to eventually, like any other side quest
It is evident they saw much more time & attention from the developers than other areas of the game. They didn't put too much thought into what a "good" character might do. The option to side with Jyggylag instead of Sheogorath was absent, so that it felt like another railroaded trip through Bethesda's "Illusion of Choice Simulator" engine.
I get what you're saying, though. I endure Fallout 4 just to play Far Harbor.
The insanity of Shivering Isles works in it's favor because of how perfect and storybook-like everything is in Oblivion.
It's hard to believe Skyrim and Oblivion's Cyrodiil are neighbors given the drastic visual design difference, but Shivering Isles doesn't need to abide by realism
@ImGonnaFudgeThatFish
Aside from both games having different art directors.....they're 2 different cultures in 2 different locations. Just because they're in the same world doesn't mean the cities or towns would look the same.
Shivering Isles is what completes oblivion for me, I love playing oblivion, and I can always come back to it as well as morrowind, I have high regards for both morrowind and oblivion, but not skyrim, skyrim is shallow.
Mage guild was cool too. I like how you had to get a letter of recommendation from each town's mage guild branch before actually being able to become a member of the main guild
Cameron's speech was written by Kirkbride, amd Todd loved the first draft so much it made it into the game. I genuinely wonder what it could have looked like if Kirkbride had been allowed to cook.
What I find the most ironic in Cameron's speech, is that he asks where the aedra are. Well.....the Aedra made Nirn, the moral realm. Literally. We can't talk to them like we can with the Daedra because they are the earth, stone, and air. They don't exist in the way daedra do now.
As for agnosticism or aethism in TES, well there is an argument that it can exist. The Dwemer never denied the daedras existence. They just never felt that the Daedra were worth worshiping. Or the Aedra tbh.
Also also. It's really funny that you show the dichotomy of Oblivions potential endings of mantling either Pelinal or Sheogorath. They are both madmen in their own right, so at the end of the day the Hero of Kvatch winds up mad regardless of who they choose.
10/10 video!
That makes a ton of sense, it really does feel different to almost anything else in the game!
Yeah, someone who knows TES lore and has read even the most obscure of MK texts could probably understand and grasp some of the ideas behind Mankar's speech and thoughts (like Dagon being from a previous kalpa), but to the average Oblivion player it means literally nothing, it's all ramblings of a madman, which is almost a fatal flaw in game design.
His ideas of Lorkhan being a Daedra sound kinda dumb to me, but there are some evidence of it on the lore, like Lorkhan being a Padomaic entity too (despite the rest of the Aedra being born from Anu+Padomay);
And this is speculation on my part but I think only 7 of the ¿17? Daedric princes are relevant: the Good Daedra and the House of Troubles. Lorkhan would be the 8th Daedra, to compete with the 8 Divines.
The Aedra are also many more than 8, but most of them became Earth Bones/Ehlnofey, evolving into different nature things and races.
Kirkbride and others who were before oblivion, are geniuses. Compared to modern Bethesda.
*Mantles both Pelinal and Sheogorath*
I see no contradictions....
@512TheWolf512 modern bethesda makes games for the masses. Despite how big they are now they refuse to take chances. Starfield doesn't take any risks or really make a name for itself. The don't even have a marketable mascot.
Tonally I feel Oblivion is kind of the black sheep of The Elder Scrolls series. Morrowind and Skyrim feel more grounded, more real in a way. Oblivion honestly feels like not the events that took place but a retelling of what actually happened. Everything looks a bit too ideal, everything feels like a storybook. It's hard to rationalize that this Cyrodiil is the same province that borders Skyrim because they don't really feel like they're in the same world.
Maybe that's somewhat what made me vibe with it so well at the time.
More like a pink sheep in a crowd of black and grey sheep.
I usually interpreted the idyllic & serene setting of Cyrodil as an intentional juxtaposition of the nightmarish realms of Oblivion. Seeing daedra exit a gate & begin attacking the native wildlife is one thing which spurred me to traverse the wilderness shutting them down in my first playthrough years ago.
@@Mr._AnderpsonThis.
I think they were pretty inspired by lotr at the time
The destruction of the amulet makes me wonder if Dagon actually won. As the god of hope and revolution, the *destruction* of the amulet seems to allow for both, hitting all three of his notes.
You hit the nail on the head! Dagon does not want to conquer Tamriel, he wants to topple the ailing and stagnant Empire which he does by ending the Septim bloodline and destroying the amulet of King. Dagon played everyone and won.
That basically just means world war Cyrodil, as the other Princes (sans Sheogoroth since he's busy) start scooping up followers and land, and at worst it ends up Jyggallag 2.0 where the rest of the Deadric Princes unite to defeat and then curse him.
Meh I don't know if he won. His ultimate goal was foiled, complete annihilation of the Empire. Yes he destroyed the amulet and ended the Septims, but the Empire exists, humans still have a rallying cause, and the Aedra still have a strong presence.
@@osaasd8018 why would he care about toppling some random empire? That's such a reach
@@HerohammerStudios Its not "some random empire" its THE Empire that has ruled all of Tamriel for over 500 years (if you only count the Third Empire). Daedric princes often join in on some random petty squabbles of the mortals, so toppling the Empire does not feel beneath Dagon at all. He is the god of Destruction, Revolution and Change so it feels perfect for him to destabilize the Empire and open the way for new forces to rise (Thalmor), the provinces to become independent (Morrowind, Hammerfell, High Rock, Black Marsh) and the civil war in Skyrim. Thats a whole lot of Destruction, Revolution and Change in my opinion.
It is my duty to watch every hour+ long videos of TES series on youtube.
no because why are they all such good background ;; maybe its because i know tes lore so i can miss a part but tune back in and i know what they're talking about
Talos wills it.
Brother in Arms!
Amen
Likewise. Somehow this happens beyond my control. Tell me you were born before 2000 without saying you were born before 2000 :D
Thanks for making this honed-in on the story. It's refreshing seeing not just another blanket, general retrospective that touches the same handful of talking points.
TH-camrs have tarnished the word "retrospective". Those are supposed to be an analysis of something long after its release and its impact but they just end being summarizing the plot using the whole fucking dictionary
Yep
Might as well just tag salt factory lmao.
@@ImGonnaFudgeThatFishdude fr
@@talus9663suck factory tbh
I have never heard anyone talking about the feudal nature of society in Cyrodiil and the lacking depth of social interaction with NPCs. Thank you so much for a fresh perspective! I guess, I'll never look at this game the way I did. Back when Oblivion was released, these detailes seemed almost obscure.
Patriciantv addressed it, but very briefly. Because his video counted on those in the know, or those who played morrowind. Basically, Bethesda doesn't want to write actual racists anymore. Or any other genuinely evil people.
@@512TheWolf512 ...did you not play Skyrim?
@@LadyLuck-rd5vi refer back to Patrician. he's more persuasive than me. you're just parroting a common misconception.
@@512TheWolf512
There's nothing more evil than caring about your people and their future.
Oh wow this is your first video? That’s insane, we definitely need more long-form creators and reviewers on the platform, good work! Will definitely listen while at work.
Grimbeard
About the Underking, he was a more major character in Daggerfall, so that might be why they didn't go into much detail here.
It's interesting he's brought up since he's sort of an inverse of the player character of Oblivion. An advisor who helps Tiber septim claim his throne and fight back an invasion. Only Tiber Septim betrayed his trust and used it to conquer high rock. I feel like Oblivion players could have used more back story
@@yasahana4447 heck yeah, I'd like to know more! It's so interesting to see players' comments esp under a really thoughtful essay like this. I can't play games rn & missed TES when I was gaming but I love gaming essays/analyses & I see so many comments like yours that make me frustrated the lore wasn't used more within the games. It seems like they have so much to play with, & it's tucked away or downplayed or just too missable when it sounds like it'd just deepen the immersion if they kept the lore more "present" in the world/game.
Good video so far. At 1:22:50 it never occurred to me that Mankar's speech probably just sounds like gibberish to most people, since I beat Morrowind before beating Oblivion's main quest and Lorkhan is a major part of Morrowind.
1:27:30 I think a failing of the game is that it always calls Mehrunes Dagon the Prince of Destruction but it never mentions his other spheres of influence, Revolution and Change. Much like with Lorkhan, you have to go looking for supplementary content to get a picture of what Dagon is. I and some others in the community think that Martin's sacrifice was the end goal of Dagon's plan the whole time. The Daedra deliberately decided not to attack the Temple of Akatosh that Martin was in. With Knights of the Nine we see there is nothing actually preventing Daedra from just walking into a church and slaughtering people. Dagon set Mankar up for failure so Martin could get everything he needed for us to get him to the Temple and sacrifice himself. I think we may have had more fleshing out of the two villains if Oblivion didnt have to worry about squeezing onto a single DVD, since they had to cut a lot of dialogue to save file space.
I like that theory! And I didn’t know that about Dagon-you’re definitely right, leaning into the Revolution and Change aspects more would’ve added some much-needed depth to him and the realm of Oblivion. An Elder Scrolls villain built around combatting the cultural and technological stagnation in Tamriel would be fascinating.
One thing about oblivion is the setting was incredibly dumbed down, at least in major direction. The previous parts of the lore that made things like the daedra less absolute evil and more something in-between, something they can choose. Same with the underking and other lore characters that appear.
The second point is easy to explain. Pagliarulo, one of the main writers, is a devout christian since childhood. So basically he bastardised kirkbride's idea into another american interpretation of Satan.
@@FargothsSecretHidingPlace alright
This is a fantastic analysis, I desperately hope TH-cam doesn't knock you down because you very easily could become the VaatiVidya of the elder acrolls
Banger comment
VV aka plaati plagiarism
I've second-monitored my way through pretty much all of the TES video essay content on youtube, and this is by far my favorite analysis of Oblivion's narrative ☺️
These videos always remind me that despite my hundreds of hours in Oblivion, I've never finished the main story. I should really go back to do that.
Camoran's Paradise is a neat and unique sort of area you can look forward to.
the ending sequence is worth experiencing once
Do the paintbrush glitch and see the ending sequence within an hour
It is what it is , slay the dragon (which some glitch could't do in Skyrim at end)
That's why there are 3 Oblivion Gates in my street. Yeah you go do that sir! >:(
Great job with this. Once I heard you speaking on the pastoral themes I knew this was one of the king elder scrolls videos actually worth listening to. It’s crazy how much poverty plays a role in the world but is ignored by everyone.
True in fiction + reality, unfortunately.
Just watched the video and I really enjoyed it! I hope you make more.
Something worth pointing out: your thesis of the empire being oppressive, corrupt, and crumbling has been a cornerstone of The Elder Scrolls from Arena to Daggerfall to Morrowind. However, in all those cases, the player was working to *uphold* that system. When you cut past the mystic symbolism and the mentions of fate, prophesy, the gods, etc, what are you left with?
In Daggerfall, you were a friend of the emperor and your ultimate objective is to dethrone the rulers of no less than 5 regions of Hammerfall and High Rock, unify a region that is, both figuratively and literally (due to the map design), the size and diversity of the entirety of Europe and northern Africa under the rule of a single family that would be unquestioningly loyal to the Empire.
In Morrowind, you are inducted as a spy that directly works for the emperor as the price of your freedom. Morrowind is the only region of Tamriel that, while still a vassal of the Empire, is free to govern itself thanks to the power of their triumvirate of God-Kings. Your goal - as a *potential* Nerevarine - is to destroy the source of the God-Kings' power, become a cultural icon and leader of the people of Morrowind, and collapse the church of the tribunal...leaving a power vacuum in the territory that will be swiftly filled by the Empire, who already had soldiers, forts, and colonizers spread around the island of Vvardenfell just waiting.
Oblivion's falling is the very clear push to make Oblivion more light-hearted and whimsical. Yet the ideas and lore from the past titles permeates the writing of Oblivion and you can see peeks of this darker past and the implications they carry.
Eh, Daggerfall is about two things. On the one hand, there's the Totem of Tiber Septim that can be used to (re)activate the Numidium that has been recently found. You can give it to Wayrest, Sentinel or Daggerfall and thus enable one of them to become the dominant faction in the Iliac Bay; you can give it to Mannimarco who'll achieve godhood with it; to the Underking, who will be able to finally rest in peace; to Gorthwog, the king of the Orcs, who will use it so no one can mess with the Orcs ever again; or you can give it to Lady Brisienna, the Blades' agent, and thus allow the Emperor to rule the Bay with an iron fist. But as the player is an agent of the Emperor, such an outcome is indeed a viable possibility.
Then there's the Lysandus story, where you need to avenge the former king of Daggerfall so that his spirit may finally rest in peace and stop haunting the streets of Daggerfall at night.
On Morrowind, you're a Blades' agent. So while you fulfill the Prophecy, you're still working for the Empire thus ensuring that Morrowind stays under imperial control. And you give some additional legitimacy to the Empire's presence and claim to rule in Morrowind, since, well, the long gone and prophesized to return hero of the Dunmer people is an imperial lackey.
Finally, a distinctly unique longform critique on Oblivion! Love the analytical narrative approach you took, connecting the story, lore and worldbuilding of the game to form a vision and understanding of the game like I haven't seen anyone do before. People like PatricianTV, WillLovesVideoGames and Private Sessions, that I've seen talking about Oblivion at length, focused too much on describing the details of the game and evaluating its systems, like graphics, combat, levelling, quests, maybe music and lore, without talking much about the interesting themes and motifs that you could extract out of the narrative. Only people like Noah Caldwell-Gervais and you here on TH-cam manage to dig deep into the stories, worlds and characters behind the games and relate that to your audiences, which I greatly appreciate.
edit: I would really like to hear your thoughts on previous Elder Scrolls games, too, specifically Morrowind - with probably the best world, lore and narrative in the series. You focus briefly in the video on Lorkhan, saying that it's just a passing reference in Oblivion, but don't mention that the whole idea of Lorkhan was established back in Daggerfall, and explored thoroughly in Morrowind, with the Dwemer and the Tribunal explicitly dealing with the Heart of Lorkhan in that same game.
Thank you! I love Noah Caldwell-Gervais’ work, his channel is a big inspiration for me. I will probably circle back to Morrowind at some point since I know it’s a huge favorite for a lot of folks. I was hoping for a remaster since I’ve struggled to get into it the few times I tried, but one of these days I’ll just download some mods and push through the meh gameplay for what I hear is a much more interesting story.
@@DukeofWhales Can confirm: with some quality of life mods, you'll probably enjoy the best Elder Scrolls narrative. It's not perfect, but it's development and themes are far better executed than Oblivion and Skyrim.
@@DukeofWhales Hope you do get around to playing morrowind, I've really enjoyed your skyrim and oblivion videos and would love to hear your thoughts on tes3. I was in the same seat as you a while ago, having tried and failed to get into Morrowind, but it finally clicked on my latest attempt. What helped was understanding that it was going for more of a pen-and-paper like experience with dice roll combat and a much bigger focus on character creation. It can be a good idea to read through the manual before playing, which was common practice at the time (it's not very long). This will make the character creation part feel less intimidating and also teach some important mechanics. It's also worth remembering that you are absolute trash at everything you didn't pick as a starting skill, common mistake is trying to kill mudcrabs with the tutorial dagger without picking short blade as a starting skill (you will miss 90% of your attacks). Buy a weapon that you have as a major skill in the shop in Seyda Neen first thing you do.
I think Morrowind combat can be fun, but more in the way that building an OP D&D character is fun than the way Skyrim combat is fun. Morrowind has a very different power curve with much less level scaling and a much greater willingness to throw large numbers at the player which can be very satisfying once you get over the hump. It is very clucky and underwhelming at the start, but this serves to make becoming a demigod later in the game more satisfying.
I agree Duke is special, but there are lots of great people doing thematic/storytelling game analyses. There's room for many & it's great to see a new generation come up who were inspired by Noah, along with lesser known contemporaries like Grim Beard who grew slow + steady. I'm not arguing for anything other than a flowering of the genre via plurality. Multiplicity makes me happy so I get miffed when people try to say JUST THIS 1 PERSON. Like, go under any pre-2000s music videos & there's always someone saying this 1 singer/band were the ONLY ONES or BEST ONES & it's never true but always pointless. You can have your faves but don't erase a whole genre with multiple diverse creators contributing.
Absolutely feel you on wanting to hear Duke take on Morrowind tho!
One of the best TES video's I've heard. Im a bit of a maniacal fan of the franchise but your perspective, wording and ways of description are simply amazing
Its a shame we didnt get to take part in the Goblin Wars.
@1:06:20 “Just being as Good as you can while looking the part is all anyone can really do” is such a wonderful quote
Im fairly certain the reason why Cameron could wear the amulet was because in his paradise he could make himself "Dragonborn" or at least of Dragons blood. He was also supposed to be a Bosmer and appears in game as an Altmer. Apparently it all boils down to numedium or some other lore buzzword giving him In Character access to the TES Creation Kit and Console.
IIRC, the theory is that he used Mehrune's Razor to shave away and remold aspects of himself.
That's one interesting thing about the lore community. We get a chance to see how religions are formed in real time. Rather than accept human error in a text which would lead to mistranslation (someone clicked the wrong box when creating Mankar), the priests sit around & think up a new theology to explain why it must be true.
Not Numidium, but a Dragon Break, wherein all possible realities co-exist for a time, until a timeline is asserted. :P
I guess the meta reason is just because nobody would take a Bosmer as a serious threat. Picture Fargoth sitting on a marble throne, legs barely reaching the floor, giving you a speech how he will end you and bring down the empire
@@Zajin13 That's because most people are simple enough to take Fargoth & attempt to paint him as the exemplar of an entire race.
If we took Narfi, the mentally-ill Nord vagrant from Ivarstead as our example of all Nords, we would hardly think they could be intimidating.
I first found oblivion at a blockbuster recommending it to my step brother 5 or so years later I asked my dad to buy it for me and I loved it ever since even more then skyrim
i've watched tens of hours of TES content and within the first 10 min of your video i learn two things i've not heard anyone else mention. amazing! i hope you get more views on this!
Then what the hell have you watched?
@@ongogablogian4396 he's been on a different website knowahmsayen
Nice first video. 10k+ views on your first video is extremely impressive. I would love to see this type of video essay for every Bethesda main quest
I love Oblivion Analysis videos and this is a REALLY great one.
This video is fantastic and inspired me to delve into the lore more than I have done in some time. I’m eager to see whether you do another video on Skyrim as there’s plenty there for you to compare to Oblivions execution.
One thing that has come to mind recently after watching this video is how little Martin Septims sacrifice is mentioned in Skyrim. Talos worship is banned but something as monumental as an Emperor, even a bastard child, channeling the avatar of Akatosh to banish a Daedric Prince and save Tamriel from an Invasion from Oblivion feeling like it’s been scrubbed from history is strange. It kind of makes me feel bad for Martin
I think the deeper I go on the lore, the more I’m convinced Oblivion has the best main story by quite a bit. The implications of Cameron’s theories about the Aedra and Daedra and their relationship to Nirn, the idea that Dagon actually fully achieved his plan in living up to his status as the prince of revolution and change by ending the Septim dynasty. I feel Oblivion actually touched on the most fundamental and fascinating aspects of the ES universe the writers created.
I think Ocato meant he didnt want to leave the provinces alone retiring the legion aid against the daedra. Which is weird since in canon the provinces complained because he did in fact move troops towards the capital
1:08:08 Weirdly enough, some NPCs talk about how the Empire is pulling troops from Black Marsh *("I hear the Legions have been recalled from Fort Swampmoth in Black Marsh, and many of the Argonian slaves have returned to their tribes.")* and in Skyrim we heard about how they "abandoned" Morrowind. It may be a case of revisionism, propaganda or unreliable narrator though.
In my opinion it makes total sense to have the Empire recalling the legions to Cyrodiil, it's like when Rome abandoned Britannia to saxons and picts to defend the more central and "important" provinces, like Italia or Gallia. The fact that we don't see these legions in-game may indicate that they had trouble on the way (maybe dealing with the provinces' Oblivion gates pouring hordes of demons).
Also, about the Empire being imperialist and crumbling: during TES 3:Morrowind we get to see the Septim empire as an occupation force, which is even colonizing the annexed province and sending their companies to extract Vvanderfell resources (Caldera's ebony mine company and Solsthem/Ebonheart East Empire Company). Some of the locals also speculate about the possibility of a succession crisis *("The Emperor is over eighty, and in poor health. He has two declared heirs, Enman and Ebel, but there are rumors of controversy over the succession in the Imperial City")* and even things like the Imperial guard killing mobs of people who accuse Uriel's sons of being impostors (sus) placed by Jagar Tharn *("They say the Guard charged a mob demanding destruction of the false heirs... lots of folks were killed.")*
1:12:08 It actually refers to Alessia's heirs, which is a way to say "Dragonborn" (as she was the first until Miraak was introduced). Tiber Septim/Talos was a nord who probably had nothing to do with Alessia, at least "genetically". Still, the Septim dynasty could still be considered as "the only ones who could rule" because they are all Dragonborn, and it's very hard to find one of those. Mankar Camoran is actually another "dragonborn" as he could wear the Amulet, yet he did so by using a magic dagger to cut reality and cut his own destiny/soul/whatever.
We even have a "reference" of sorts of Skyrim's Thu'um in the Commentaries : _Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. _*_When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire_*
1:20:59 This is wayy too meta, barely referenced in the Commentaries, but Mehrunes Dagon is supposedly a being created on an alternative version of Tamriel/Nirn (or a previous "kalpa") called Lyg. Dagon was made as a deity of Hope by the Magna Ge, and with that hope he rebelled against the rulers of Lyg and destroyed them and their cities and continents. Maybe Mankar saw this daedra as literally that, a hope for a better world who can, through his title of "Prince of Destruction", destroy the Old Order, the Ancien Régime.
Maybe the Paradise that Mankar created went wrong, as in that he tried to imitate the idylic world of Tamriel pre-Man/Mer or a previous, more chill kalpa (a "vision from the past") but brought with him all the corruption of the already existent worlds (both from the corrupted mortals of Tamriel and the horrible daedras of Oblivion), including his own corruption (the Daedra seem to attack ALL except Mankar and his children, they are the royalty/Septims oppresing the people).
@@DiocletianLarius lygma balls
@@ExValeFor lmao
Great video! Oblivion was my first real RPG and I have a lot of fond memories attached to it.
That ghost quest you mentioned reminded me of when I napped on the ship tavern in the waterfront and then woke up on the high seas after pirates had taken it.
So this video, as well as the Firewatch and Skyrim essays, popped up in my feed today. Wonderful surprise for me, as I love video essays. However, when I saw you’ve only published four videos, I can only describe my shock as intense. You convey your points with a deep understanding and appreciation of the game you’re covering. I leave every video feeling more knowledgeable on the subject you discussed. This content is outstanding! Please keep this up. You’re going places.
Some good takes I haven't heard in many Oblivion retrospectives. And I've watched a fair few. Very good job!
Fantastic video. Your analysis is deep, well researched, yet also engaging and with just the right amount of levity. Really looking forward to more videos from you!
For such a small channel the level of care and work that goes into your videos is insane keep it up g
Holy crap you started this channel a YEAR ago and TH-cam didn't tell me. Saw your firewatch critique first, subbed immediately after, now its time for a marathon of the backlog!
Thank you for thinking deeper about games. This is 9000% what I'm here for
Truly love these analyses. I disagree with a few things. But this is super refreshing compared to people using these games as a cheap way to gain views. This is great content. Thank you! It’s been refreshing to revisit these stories in a fair, analytical way. You’ve gained a new fan!
Just found your channel and let me say as a video game studies student, you’re actually doing the kind of work we love. Your narrative critique provides a strong basis for us to study the mechanics behind the narrative (whether the mechanics are intentional or not). Fantastic work!
I’ve binged every single video of yours and I gotta say I really appreciate how you articulate your feelings and opinions in them. Even if I disagree with you on one point I can still say “Okay, I see where he’s coming from”. Also, the editing is really on point and I appreciate the improvement on the quality of your mic over time. So, please please keep the vids coming, you’ve got a real talent for this!
Love your videos man. I love long form content and your work brings a unique and fresh perspective. I always prefer an analysis of story and narrative over splitting hairs on each gameplay mechanic.
I can't be the only one who tried taking the friendly rat with me, right?
Real banger of a debut essay, I think it gets at the core of why so much big budget stuff that's pushing technical boundaries can kind of fall apart when you try to approach it from a literary perspective. When you make the technical achievement (whether that's the graphics, or the scale, or the radiant npcs) your top priority, to the point that it overshadows any thematic potential present in the material, you wind up with something that will grab the attention and stick in the memory--because it is fun! It is impressive!--but might not hold up to closer scrutiny, and certainly won't stand the test of time in the way that works with a stronger conceptual foundation do. Because those goalposts of technical quality are always going to be shifting, but art that deeply resonates with people has the potential to do so far into the future. I do get that there is an argument to be made for works that push those technical boundaries as the strides they make can improve the medium for all works made down the line, but I don't think that's any reason not to critically engage with them and what they have to say, just because that wasn't the foremost priority in their development.
I really enjoyed your thoughts and ideas about Oblivion. This was excellent work I certainly didn't think I would find on a smaller channel. Well, you're 1 member larger now. Great work sir
i watched soooo many multihour oblivion retrospective but i still click them nd urs def can stand next 2 the rest good video ty
i binge elder scrolls content all the time, but this is the first time i've heard something new about oblivion in a while. it's a really good analysis
Really good video. Maybe the best first channel video I've ever seen. I will watch your career with great interest young TH-camr
really breaking your back to reach that 10 minute mark huh?
Wow mate great video. Clicked on your channel and only then realized it was your first. Glad this was recommended to me, I can't wait to see what else you plan on putting out
When I first played Oblivion way back in 2007, I only fast traveled to places I had already been. It was my first game of its kind and I wanted to explore every nook and cranny. I went everywhere in Cyrodiil on foot first and foremost.
Great analysis! You got me to the screen from start to end and your voice was great to listen to!
Great Video! You can tell much work where going into it.
At 1:30:00 following you say, that Cyrodiil isnt really damaged.
But Kvatch is litterally destroyed, in every Oblivion Gate you find dead people. In cities there are going people missing. At the end, its not only the temple. The imperial city is burning. That not many NPCs die, its a consequence of gameplay. If the imperial citie would be dead after the main quest, it would hurt the following gameplay and lock you out of quests. The crisis causes even in Oblivion, without the Skyrim lore, heavy damage.
Just wanted to say that I really enjoy these videos! Great job, and I hope there's more to come!
i love your critiques and I use it as background while I work on making 3d models. honestly can't work without some lore or review or such going on in the background and your videos have been so fun to listen too. really keep my brain working.
I never used fast travel during my First ever play through of Oblivion, & the game IS So much better that way!
There are so many things you will inevitably miss, if you just fast travel..
The game is meant to be explored, experienced & enjoyed!
I've heard other people say that a no-fast-travel run is better, but I just don't understand why. With so much backtracking and jumping back and forth between towns that following most questlines entails, when I tried it the travelling made the game super monotonous. The staggering amount of times a quest sends you across the map for a short dungeon or conversation before sending you back was crazy to me, given that this came just after Morrowind. I feel like they made the game with the intent of players fast travelling everywhere.
That being said, don't let me stop you from enjoying games the way you like. Taste is subjective, so what's good for one of us may not be for the other.
@@kappacat I admit some of it can be monotonous and boring, however there are things that you come across when traveling out in the open world that you would not get to have experienced, if you did not manually run there yourself in other words if you fast travel you would go past it and miss it…
Not to mention the fact that you’re getting way more experience for every single one of your skills that you are using such as athletics, archery, acrobatics fighting with swords and black weapons etc., you’re getting more experience due to you getting in more fights as you travel as well as you’re getting more gear and stuff to sell and it just ends up making it a much more worthwhile experience for somebody who is looking for that type of experience!
This comment is all the more true closer to the time when the game came out and it was truly revolutionary, to say something like this nowadays, it is kind of more so monotonous due to the fact that there are more sophisticated experiences out there to be had-
@@kappacat take the Witcher three wild hunt nowadays:
I know fast travel run in the Witcher three wild Hunt is also just amazing, but there are times where you just about how to fast trouble either the distance being so far away or the fact that you’re over encumbered and you need to get on the horse and then fast travel to the nearest area to sell everything… just an amazing game with so much stuff riddled throughout the world for you to stumble upon and Find!
This is the way oblivion was when it first came out, nowadays it seems harder to do that mainly because it’s dated nowadays and it doesn’t seem as grand as it once did? Having a grand sense of wanting to explore as well as wanting to level your character in the most efficient way is what a no fast travel run is really all about?
It can be the most enjoyable thing if that’s what you’re looking for, and you love going on and off the beaten path, setting out and seeing what you find?
But if you’re more the type of person that just wants to go to the next cinematic interaction with another person or to the next area where you’re going to have to fight a few enemies, well that can be fine too but I argue that that is not as fun due to the fact that you’re just magically jumping around a world that was designed for you to explore?
Great analysis. I really enjoyed it! Though one thing I may not necessarily agree with is how you interpreted Martin being a bastard as a result of Uriel simply being a lustful man. Although, that might be the case, I personally interpret Martin to be Uriel's final contingency plan should anything happen to his legitimate bloodline. The man is an emperor so it's no surprise that there would be many people in Tamriel and beyond who would want him and his entire dynasty dead. What also reinforces this theory is that Uriel knew of Martin's existence and it seems like he kept constant surveillance on him. I don't think Uriel would have wasted the Blades' time for that sort of thing if he didn't have plans for Martin.
And as we can see from the events of Oblivion, if it wasn't for Uriel's lustful "accident", there would have been no way to stop the daedric invasion.
great take. this is precisely the kind of analysis that the oblivion video essay scene needed
This game still generates faces for my sleep paralysis demon
Another fantastic addition to my growing collection of multi-hour oblivion retrospectives. I'm truly astounded they keep coming out I can't image how much work these things take.
1:00:31 "The Underking? ... You wouldn't know her. She goes to another school. In Canada."
If Oblivion is more “empty” then Skyrim in the areas off the roads, I think it’s fine. I think it makes sense for the roads to barely have any danger as Cyrodiil is the heart of the Empire, which has a standing army, it’s also the trade center of all Tamriel due to the Empire’s influence. Thus it makes sense the roads would be safer then Skyrim, imagine Skyrim and other provinces as like out in the suburbs, more spread out and less densely populated, thus higher chance of dangerous animals in the woods, vs a city which is what Cyrodiil is like more densely populated and visited, thus not as many dangerous animals. Especially since the Legion patrols a lot. Do safer roads.
I always thought it was really immersion breaking to have a cave full of hagravens just be chilling right next to a main road.
Or every fort taken over by weak bandits.
I foresee this channel having 200k+ subs within a couple more uploads.
Absolutely amazing content, and i have literally never felt the slightest pang of desire to play Oblivion, ever.
I'd love to see more narrative critiques of all the side quests, or even different games.
I'd love to see this channel do a video on Morrowind also.
Amazing video, especially for a first time creator! Voiced dialogue is a big reason why this game falters. Half the disk was taken up by dialogue. You can't have as many dialogue options as a game like Daggerfall or Morrowind. In daggerfall you can ask every NPC about every faction and where you can find any shops, but the lines are all repeated and are only affected by the mysterious faction and reputation system that runs in the background. Morrowind did this sort of encyclopedic dialogue much better. It seems like the transition from unvoiced to voiced dialogue was a very rocky one. It was never possible to have a ton of interesting branching conversations. Either way, they could have prioritized giving some more important dialogue options more depth and removed some exposition-only dialogue. I never picked up on these hidden themes about the empire and beggars, and I think this is because Oblivion never prompts you to think critically about anything. It never gives you a dialogue option that makes you realize that there could be more to this world than the surface level.
Your voice is perfectly fine, no need to worry about that. This is the 3rd video in a row of yours I've been watching today.
Great video! You hit on a lot of things that make Oblivion (and, tbh, Elder Scrolls in general) fun and frustrating to engage with, especially in regards to how much Oblivion seems to stumble into commentary rather than actually attempt to say much of anything.
Your content is SO good. I love listening when I’m winding down for bed. I can watch them in parts so i have enough content for a few days before bed for about 15-20mins at a time! I love how you describe your work as something for a second monitor bc when i set my second one up again, i can see myself listening. I do like paying proper attention though. As an autistic woman whose special interest is the elder scrolls, i am HYPE! Thank you :)
I just watched this and the Skyrim video, these are incredibly well dome and thought out commentaries. Hats off to you, sir! I hope you create other such commentaries.
Perhaps a video on Fallout New Vegas in the future?
Actually, I just realized I forgot mention the most important detail about the Zogok’s design: apparently it and its fellow Jaburo attack MS weren’t so much designed as amphibious MS, but rather as wetland or swamp use units, given Jaburo’s terrain. A small, but important difference that means that these units weren’t considering combat in underwater cruising mode.
In the other hand, the hip wire cutter weapon reminded me of another unit that might actually have a similar role as the Zogok: the MS-07G-1 Gouf Vijayanta, a unit designed breach obstacles & work in tandem with firepower focused MS-07G-2 Gouf Tactical Assault Type (pretty much the same role as the MSM-04G Juagg).
It replaces the heat rod with a scissor anchor launcher, which it supposedly uses for climbing, though the “scissor” part of the name suggests it is also used for cutting obstacles.
As for the extending arms, they vary a lot depending on the source, but even early on we saw the Acguys using theirs to leap around the Jaburo caves. IIRC, the Daughtseat units (coming in two variants) from After War Gundam X had some of the longest extending arms among all amphibious MS.
On a side note, color scheme of the Zogok is… interesting, at least considering some of the units that have come up in recent years. Case in point, the AMX-101S Gallus S from AoZ not only shows a guard type using similar colors, but also had a development tree with a few other units using similar colors, which would include the Gyan Eos, the Gaz-R and the Charles Rochester custom Gelgoog RF, as well as the captured F90 in Mars Zeon configuration, most of which are considered knight or guard type units.
Finally, as for descendants of the Zogok, I could imagine a OMSM-08RF which added chest beam shower weapons like those of the OMSM-07RF. Ironically, this unit could also borrow the beam sword of the OMS-07RF as a sort of homage.
By the way, the on going F90 manga actually added a OMS-18ERF Kampfer RF to the roster of the Oldsmobile units, so there do might be hope for a Zogok RF.
Speaking of F90, if you want an idea for an obscure amphibious unit check the Karcharias from Randegger Heavy Industries, which appeared in U.C. 0112.
You might be a bit lost but always appreciate hearing about Mobile Suits.
A little bit of a note about your musings on the Underking, and the nature of the Empire as an oppressor: while, if you view Oblivion in a vacuum, he may seem like a completely random villain, but he's actually a pivotal plot character from Daggerfall (Elder Scrolls 2) as well as an extremely important historical figure. Bethesda's intent with that part of the story was likely not on any narrative weight, but on enriching the setting and reinforcing continuity - the Underking was (depending on which sources you believe) a victim of terrible injustice at the hands of Tiber Septim, and dedicated his unlife to both opposing the bloody, brutal conqueror's will and dismantling the Tower-That-Walks that is Numidium. It makes perfect sense for the Underking to have assaulted Sancre Tor, as it had become the resting place of Tiber Septim himself. For people who had stuck around since TES2, this would make the world seem more real - like the characters live in it and affect it rather than just popping into existence for the one game that they were made for.
Furthermore, if you look to the immediate predecessor to Oblivion, TES3: Morrowind, you get to see what the Imperials right before their collapse look like in the provinces. They're a dispassionate colonizing force - one that any person from any race is welcome with and can prosper under, but also one that actively and constantly works to undermine local power structures, erode local culture, and replace local religion with their own (an Imperial Pantheon that is outright stated to be an artificial construct to serve as a religious compromise between the elves and men of Cyrodiil). If you join the Imperial Legion, immediately after taking the oath where you swear to always carry yourself as the "Model Imperial Citizen" and protect the public trust, you're given the orders to walk up to a poor grieving widow's house (who is currently getting by off of the generosity of her community) and secure the deed to her house so you can build another watchtower on its foundations. In the history of Skyrim as a province, the Imperials have long since done this to Skyrim MULTIPLE times, with Ulfric's rebellion being merely the latest of several attempts from the Nordic people to throw off the centuries-long eradication of Nordic culture. Hell, the Nords at that point don't even honor their own gods - Shor, Stuhn, Tsun, Kyne, Jhunal, and the others! They place their greatest faith in Talos - the mythologized version of the founder of the latest Cyrodiilic power to oppress them! The Imperials have assimilated the Nords so heavily that the Nords WORSHIP the first Septim!
The Empire is a cosmopolitan multiracial beacon of tolerance, but it is also at the end of the day an empire. A political machine that exists to conquer foreign land, take their resources, and destroy their culture so utterly that they cannot think of a way to live that isn't Cyrodiilic... which is interesting, because its culture is framed in direct contrast to the local cultures we've seen that are in active opposition to it (the violent Nords of Skyrim, and the enslaving Dunmer of Morrowind). Do you view it as just to support cultural erasure and dispassionate oppression, if the locals are xenophobic in the extreme? Is the way of life of a people really that important if the Empire makes the provinces more prosperous and safe? Should a people have the right to self determination if they make worse decisions than the people they rail against? Is tradition or pragmatism more vital to the soul of an ethnicity?
Id wager Martin’s character development was sacrificed for how pricey Sean Bean was to hire.
Loved the video! I especially appreciated how you delved into plot structure and media literacy. You might enjoy the work of KM Weiland on plot arcs. Looking forward to hearing your reflections on Skyrim, because that story is narratively quite interesting, if only in how ambitious it is. And if you get to it, an analysis of the plot of Daggerfall would be awesome.
Genuinely enjoyed this, thank you and good luck for your channel.
I clicked your profile expecting to see dozens of hour long videos. The production quality on these for such a small channel is NUTS
That’s so nice, thank you so much!
Amazing critique, and definitely a unique one considering all the different retrospectives and other critiques out there. Can't wait to see your next video!
Stay on track and you will become a YT legend! Glad to have found u! btw, I love oblivion!
Popped up on my recommended, watched his videos without paying any mind to subscribers thinking he had over 100K, come to find out he is just over 10K, phenomenal work, very high production. PLEASE keep this up
Hey, this isn't fodder for my second monitor! It's fodder for helping me fall asleep ❤
edit: I have now finished the video after several nights, I can reaffirm that it's great! Hadn't thought about Oblivion this much in a decade.
1:08:05 this is because the oblivion crisis happened across Tamriel. To remove the legion would show the empire was loyal only to itself and not it's subject states.
1:58:33 I'm imagining the player character asking for ~100 gold before handing over the amulet, and this just _immediately_ prompts dialogue to close before he punches you in the face, takes the amulet, and says "Now listen: We're both going to pretend you just told a silly joke and move on. Understood?"
Fantastic analysis and I cannot wait for what you cover next. I never got very far into oblivion, I think for me my main experience of rpgs had been linear stories like Final Fantasy, but also KOTOR and other BioWare classics (Please do dragon age if you can!) I’ve always viewed games as a new way to tell stories. And I think what has always been missing for me from Bethesda games is the companions, the relationships, the stories that you build with them. You can build it in these games yourself but in general I don’t want to hang with the Npcs. As for story complexity, I think its lacking from a lot of triple a titles, there might be nods to something deeper but in order to create general appeal it stops short.
Responding to the question "what good is the Septim Empire if it allowed its people to live like this?" I believe Empires exist for their own sake, especially in a medieval world where values of liberty and equality probably don't exist and haven't been invented. The fact that there exists disparity between people probably isn't even registered as a "bad" thing by people in Tamriel, especially if they don't feel they are responsible for it. In a sense, that is no different to how things where before a unifying empire existed.
When you question a state's legitimacy to rule you got to ask what is the alternative. If the Empire was to crumble and disappear there would be a huge power vacuum and the powers that seek to fill it may not be any better than the Empire for the citizenry. Like the Thalmor.
You make valid points so far but i want to pause the video to make a small correction sir, the underking is a fully fleshed out villain and we know quite a bit about him. The thing is, this is lore that was established in a previous game, Daggerfall, where he was one of the main antagonists. For this reason i feel like while your overall criticisms are valid, this statement about the underking didn't apply.
Oblivion is the elder scrolls 4, it should go without saying that there will be nods and references to previous games without being fully explained. This would be like starting at return of the king and criticizing it for not explaining the events of fellowship and two towers fully.
On a side note, we know who the deep ones are too. Answers are there for anyone that digs deep enough but my point was specifically on your comments of the underking. Anyways, back to the video!
genuinely my favourite TH-camr. one of the only game reviewers who engage so deeply with the content. you're clearly extremely intelligent and you're a great storyteller. thanks for all your content mate
My favorite thing to do when I can't sleep, listen to long retrospectives on games I joy!
I have it on good authority that the lead writer for Oblivion wanted to do away with the main quest entirely. They felt the storylines elsewhere were reason enough to explore!
I honestly think you’ve put ten times more thought into the nuanced parallels of Cyrodiil’s inhabitants, environments, and narratives than Bethesda ever did. They seem more like the kind of happy coincidences that arise when a dev team dumps every generic fantasy trope they can gather into a single melting pot.
The Imperial City is clearly the Roman Empire. Cyrodiil was a jungle, narratively, but the LOTR movies success led the dev team to turn Cyrodiil into Middle Earth.
Similarly, the success of all of the Vikings IPs likely led the Skyrim dev team to lean heavily into that aesthetic/narrative.
Yes, what little of it we saw in morrowind it wasn't just straight up norse.
i like morrowinds approach to the 'choosen one' trope
yes, you are the choosen one... IF you can convice everyone around you of it by deeds that a prophecy foretold.
and on your way, you can see so many people who have tried to do the very same
you havent been the first, and you will likely fare the same, dying in horror and pain somewhere, forgotten after just a few weeks by the inhabitants of this strange land an buried under the ashwind...
when you finally unite the ashland tribes, or become the hortator, it feels earned, because you didnt achieve that because of a prophecy, the prophecy instead is just what allows you to have a path to go by, a few general steps that you will wish to follow.
you are even allowed to kill people that would be important to the main plot, dooming your world in the process, and proving, that a prophecy dosnt automatically make you a hero, just because you happen to match two or three of its criteria.
I actually don't play it on my second monitor. I play it on my first with nothing else on while I go to bed. I love these kinds of long videos for that and your voice is soothing enough, so you have one new subscriber. Go Team Sleep!
Aight you had me at "go see about a chorrol." Respect, great video!
It's the Ayleids. That's how the Mythic Dawn knows of the secret passage. The White-Gold Tower was built by Ayleids, and they worshipped the Daedra. Of course they'd know of the secret passages.
Oh! This is your first video! I subscribed to find playlist of your soothing voice. Oh well, I'm sure it'll grow
Another excellent Oblivion analyst touches the beacon
“Someone must always be suffering in the lava” also reminds me of the Ursla K. Le Quin book about the City, where there is one child who lives the worst possible life of poverty and illness and frailty, to maintain the utopia
Only a few minutes in and someone else may or may not have mentioned this but the Dark Brotherhood storyline was masterful in its own way.
Mazoga was always "what if an NPC was the protagonist of their own life" to me, a character I will always remember.
1:11:28 the significance of this line wasn't lost on me playing Skyrim either - "...if the Empire should slacken it's dedication to the *Nine* Divines" The Thalmor knew exactly what they were doing when they banned Talos worship
Keep it up dude. Haven't finished the video yet but you have major talent! "Weightless" is the perfect description for Oblivion! I love the game but it's true.
Dude this analysis was such a breath of fresh air! I love Oblivion and hearing your takes about what works, and how lots of content and the use of the setting was also such a missed opportunity was great. I love a good hero story and I don't think they needed to reinvent the wheel with Oblivion, but MAN they really didn't do anything with what they had for the main quest. I still love it, but its still a tad disappointing.
One of the better retrospectives out there, thank You for the hard work you put into it for us.