And this was a lot of fun to watch, too! Please do more. It's nice to get to know conductors through the lens of another conductor. Ooh, different idea. Maybe introduce some women conductors in a video?
would of course love to, for obvious reasons ;) but I struggle to find enough video footage since I prefer older videos for copyright reasons and most available on YT are rather recent ...but it is definitely on my mind. Thanks for the comment! :)
@@howimettheopera maybe you can just use photos and tell us about them. No need for video clips. Links to performances conducted by them in the description would supplement.
I really liked your discussion. I believe everyone that asks, "What is the conductor doing?" or, "Is the conductor really needed?" should watch this. Great Job and thanks.
If a person watches any conductor in rehearsal they would realize how talented and important they are. Ex: George Solti and L. Bernstein both have these videos on TH-cam
The finished product is achieved by the rehearsal weeks !! The actual performance from the conductors point of view is pretty much pure theatre ,a curtain call for all that preparation !!
I would appreciate more explanatory videos like this. I have no musical training, but love music. Any educational content like this greatly increases my understanding and enjoyment of this wonderful art form. Many thanks.
As a composer and choir director, this was wonderful .... to realize how these two great conductors THINK, and how that is seen and heard in their conducting ... THANK YOU
I played in wind ensembles and orchestras for years in my younger days (and even majored in music for 3 years) and still go to some 35 to 40 concerts a year, but your video just goes to show that there is always something more to be learned and that someone like you can point out things that have never struck me or that I had forgotten. Thank you! How wonderful you picked this symphony! It is one of my absolutely top favorites that I NEVER get tired of hearing!
What a contrast! Kleiber, the son of a great opera conductor and raised in Buenos Aires, with that great combination of German rigour and Latin dance. And Bernstein, the American romantic who milked every note for all it was worth. I doubt many people would choose Bernstein’s version just because the tempo is so leaden. It’s a great contrast and not just in the interpretations, we have two very different conducting styles in display. Thanks for putting this kind of analysis out to the public, it’s much needed and you do a great job.
I absolutely love the Kleiber version, in particular the finale. It is so formal and yet so dramatic, the perfect synthesis of classical and baroque. That is clearly what Brahms intended, I think, but easier said than done certainly.
Thank you for making the video, finally I got a clear understanding of what the conductor and his gesture is doing. This is very helpful and fascinating!
It is fantastic, a comprehensive comparison of Conducting; although I came to exactly the reverse conclusion with the 2 versions. For me it is Bernstein on almost all points that you have highlighted.
I almost always prefer another conductor to Bernstein but I can’t argue that he always conjures something unique and vivid. I almost always watch Bernstein recordings when looking for inspiration. Like him or not, he’s completely, unapologetically himself. Kleiber is just so utterly legendary! He has so much control over the orchestra and its so easy to understand his movements and expressions. Kleiber also generates a lot more true-to-score recordings, whilst still making them special in their colours!
Last year I had the good fortune to hear a performance of this with the Los Angeles Philharmonic conducted by Simone Young. She received a thunderous standing ovation from the audience which is rare in this work. She is retuning again this year and I hope to be there. FYI.,my own favorite recordings are still Furtwangler and Walter. Thank you for a most interesting video.
What a wonderfully interesting video. As a former professional clarinettist it never failed to amaze me that you could have the exact same group of musicians, same piece of music and, like your video, get completely differing outcomes and not just in tempo! Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this - superb.
@@orientaldagger6920 Yes, I know! I was making my point about the group/s of musicians that I, personally, played with but could have different results with different conductors. This video does not suggest that the clips are the same musicians. OK?
Bernstein's is definitely more dramatic. The contrast really draws out the drama. Kleiber's is definitely creating beauty from musical cohesion. It's almost strange to prefer one over the other because their purpose seems entirely different. Bernstein sounds like he's directing a play for drama through contrast and Kleiber like he is trying to draw attention composer's musicality by showing how well the sections compliment each other.
I feel like Bernstein is trying to convey the deep emotions behind the music, which in my view was why Brahms wrote this music in the first place. To me those emotions reflect Brahms's lifelong experience of unrequited love and his helplessness and despair in the entire area of romantic relationships. I think Bernstein understood these emotions (even though he had a very full and active romantic and social life, in contrast to Brahms), and tries to bring it out. I expect quite a lot of other conductors may have never had quite the same emotional experiences as Brahms had and might not even recognize what Brahms was likely feeling or trying to convey, so naturally it will not be something they would be able to focus on when performing his music. Fortunately the music is also beautiful and at times exciting and powerful no matter how you interpret it.
First of all: marvelous review. Articulate, cogent and thoughtful. Second: As a former musician, I truly enjoy making comparisons of different Conductors, especially after having the benefit of listening to most of them in person. Third: Excellent choice in choosing Bernstein and Kleiber. Very different techniques and tempi with a great deal of their personality showing through. Fourth: My preference in Conductors: My two favorites are Sir Georg Solti and Carlos Keiber. When you close your eyes listening to either Conductor, you are transported to Nirvana hearing the singing of Angels. Thank-you so much for posting. Your presentation is all that is wonderful about TH-cam. Keep it going.
Many many years ago, the late great Karl Haas did a similar program on WQXR-FM in New York. He compared different conductors with the opening of Beethoven Five, including a comparison of the young Bernstein and a later, more mature, one. So educational -- thank you so much for this analysis of Brahms!
Listen to the 1935 BBC Orch - Toscanini Brahms 4th and the 1943 Berlin Phil - Furtwangler Brahms 4th. The 4th movement of each time out to within 1 second of each other. They are polar opposite perspectives or interpretations, yet both are very true to the nature of Brahms.
Great video. I always wondered what effect the conductor had on an orchestra and how they communicated it, now I have a better understanding. Thank you very much.
Excelente. Gosto muito de assistir a concertos da mesma peça por diferentes regentes e orquestras, é uma experiência prazerosa. Então esse vídeo com explicações técnicas foi sensacional. Que venha mais!
Very valuable explanation of what conductors do that matters and how they go about it. Thank you for taking the time to make and post this (and for having the background that allows you the insights).
Wow, I have spent several years watching several orchestras without understanding the behind the scenes information you provided. I am not a musician and will never really get this but you opened my eyes to the function of the conductor and how important they are to what I hear. Thanks.
Carlos Kleiber was a joy to watch, and his recordings are a joy to hear! Interpretation is a tricky thing, but Kleiber's light touch better serves the listener here. I don't particularly care for Bernstein's plodding tempo in this example.
Excellent video. As an ex-professional oboist now running a New Space start up....I was surprised I actually liked the Bernstein better. I think you hit the nail on the head, JB wanted all the intricacies played. And one can never really get away from the fact that that piece was the last piece JB heard in public in that very hall in Wien.... LB was certainly aware of this... All very cool!
Bernstein chose slower tempi as he got older. I heard the VPO live with him doing Brahms' 4th, and it was amazing. I think he was building intensity with the more full-bodied instruments.
It is ironic that the conductor who came out pre-concert to apologize for Gould’s ‘slow’ D minor concerto ended up so far on the other side of the fence!
And btw, Toscanini's and Furtwangler's 4th movement, 4th Symphony both time out to about 9:31. My1980 Kleiber recording with Vienna times out to 9:15 and his recording with Berlin in 1994 his recording times out to 9:23. Bernstein has a 1953 recording that times out to 10:50 (NY Stadium Orchestra), then in a 1972 video with Boston times out over 11:20 and in the Vienna video you show closes in on almost 12 minutes. So basically 9 1/2 minutes vs 11 1/2 minutes on average. Perhaps Bernstein felt the 1927 Abendroth recording or the 1929 Fiedler recording, which have similar slow 4th movements, were more in keeping with Brahms' intentions, but already in 1934 Walter begins to speed things up a bit and the movement does not appear to drag. Even the 1953 Knappertsbusch recording moves at a snappier pace than Bernstein's. It also has an explosive 2nd beat in the 1st variation of the theme. I appreciate your analysis and comparisons very much.
You help explain why I often search different versions of my favorite movements to find out which one stirs me the most. I am amazed at how much difference there can be. I'm not sure what I'm looking for on a technical level, but more on an emotional level and reaction to the music.
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful analysis. I am an 80-year-old music lover who knows very little about music but who lived within walking distance of the Philadelphia Academy of Music during the Eugene Ormandy era. I often wondered about the role of a conductor during a performance and, in my own simple way, came to the conclusion that the musicians came to know what the conductor expected during rehearsals just as a sports team knows how to execute plays designed by the coach during the practice sessions - not during the actual game. In my later years I have become a fan of Wagner and find so many variations in approach. I have also listened to many, many performances of Sherezade and am amazed at how the length of a performance can vary several minutes. I am surprised how infrequently it is performed given it so appealing to the general listener. If you ever do review it, I would love your comments on the interaction between the first violin and the conductor during the opening phrases of Sherezade. The bow requires such a delicate touch it seems the first violin would not be able to look away from his instrument. Also, I love seeing the percussionists and would appreciate your comments on their role in such pieces. They may have only a few beats, but the timing has to be spot-on. Best wishes. I hope you feel encouraged to keep up your explanations as it must require quite a bit of time and background research to make a meaningful comparative analysis. It is appreciated.
Great!! I am a very professional musician playing in orchestras for the last 40 years….and you are perfectly right. You can read my comments. I wrote them before I read yours.
About Scheherezade. There is not very much interaction really. In most of the places the conductor follows the concertmaster because most of the solos are quite free in tempo, like a cadenza. In all the other parts the concertmaster just plays along like all the other players. The conductor conducts the whole orchestra and everybody plays. As I said, in all the other solos, the concertmaster is very free. Normally they can discuss matters of taste. Like, maybe you could do this or that, you can discuss how long or short a fermata can be etc.
Lovely video. Really well done. Wonderful clear explanation. I do these type of comparisons with my (private) students after having done that with my kids when they were trying. 😂 One of my favorite examples is Gustav Mahler's 9th symphony. In one version, conducted by Bernstein and in another by Otto Klemperer. The differences are striking. I would love to see a future video were you cover this. Thank you for this lovely video.
Great video and great content! Both of these conductors are absolutely stunning musicians, but Kleiber creates a very special and unique aura with every piece he conducts!
This is a nice, succinct demonstration of how two great conductors can present very different renditions of the same composition. (This also illustrates to me again why I also love C. Kleiber so much.) To be fair, though, what we see in performance is just the tip of the iceberg. Having attended many orchestra rehearsals I can attest that's where the conductor does the real interpretive work, frequently even singing to the players how they want passages to be phrased, etc.
Thank you so much for this! I was just having a conversation with someone recently about the purpose of a conductor and how they define how a musical score is performed. This really puts things into perspective and makes you realize all the nuances that help shape the performance.
Its exactly the other way around…..orchestras make 95% of the quality of a performance. Its the old legend about the huge power of conductors….while really bad conductors keep sounding great….example: Herreweghe and Concertgebouw. An amateur conductor „trying“ to conduct a great orchestra. Sounds great. Take Carlos Kleiber to Asuncion, Paraguay and let him conduct an orchestra there…it would sound horrible. But the legend goes on and on and on….
Good to have stumbled on this video. Amazing contrasts. Thank you. Many years ago I tried buying audio equipment to try and compare and contrast how different ensembles and conductors come out with the same movement of the same work... A non-starter. So thanks for your effort. (From Bangalore, India)
First of all, thank you for creating this wonderful video. I want to focus on what Carlos Kleiber did with the flute solo, he follows what I believe it was a Richard Strauss rule: "never conduct a player during a solo part". What Kleiber does was not dictate the result from inside like Bernstein: "I want that", Kleiber shows how he want to feel, so the flute player is aimed to create the most beautiful possible sound, the most delicated phrasing in order to please Kleiber spiritual feeling, and more important, to not dissapoint him.
I think this is exactly correct. That solo player should be left alone and I had a feeling which way she would go. I don't know a lot about it but Bernstein I think was a bit of an ego maniac
Bernstein is not exactly conducting the solo flute; he is drawing the strings and horn around the flute solo. That can be tricky and compromise the solo if not well done. I don't agree with Bernstein's overall conception, but it is done to such a high standard that I find it fascinating too.
Thank you. Very interesting. When I was a musician, we got the impression Leonard Bernstein always took tempi very fast. Great to see the exception here. Wonderful explanations, thank you.
I know basically zero about music. I came here because I searched “what makes good conductor.” I cannot speak to that issue, but I can say this this is a great video. Clearly and honestly explained. Thank you.
A very interesting and enjoyable insight into conductors’ interpretations of music. And thank you for introducing me to Kleiber. I have since watched film of him in rehearsal and am in awe of his understanding of the music and his exceptional ability to communicate with the orchestra. Where some conductors appear to be directing the orchestra, Kleiber seems to become an integral part of it.
This is great! There are many dimensions that you can go with this theme. For example, how different conductors communicate to the orchestra, how different conductor temperaments affect/inspire playing, how rehearsals are conducted. So fun and so informative!!
Agree with @markoconnell304. Having sung with opera choruses, the different kind of communication is so important. And, it has an effect on the chorus, many times on its morale!
@@susanlandsman9572yes I’ve read about some very famous conductors who were let go basically. This was because they crush the souls of the musicians with endless perfectionism
Brilliant idea for an analysis - comparing two contrasting conductors in visual as well as aural performance. A fascinating video resulted. I think you have started a new analytical trend that will grow and grow!
I agree with your choice on every level. It reminded me of something Benjamin Zander says a lot about romantic music - it is all in one, and that interpretation makes so much sense to me.
Thank you for this excellent comparison of two of the great conductors of the 20th century. Wikipedia says that Kleiber studied chemistry at ETH in Zurich. No doubt he would have been a great chemist, but his switch to a career in music was a gift to all of us. (My doctoral thesis adviser’s thesis adviser studied chemistry there with Peter Debye, the Nobelist who took Einstein’s place at ETH when Einstein moved to Prague.) I loved how you contrasted Kleiber’s and Bernstein’s approaches to a fragment of one movement of the Brahms. Now I would like to hear your take on their overall treatments of the complete work. One rarely gets this sort of exposure first-hand, but it occasionally happens. In 2002 my choir (The Dessoff Choirs) sang Ives's 4th Symphony in Lincoln Center with the American Symphony conducted by Leon Botstein. Of course it was thrilling to be on the same stage where Bernstein once led the NY Philharmonic, and I got to love the Ives symphony. But then two years later we were hired by the NY Philharmonic itself and performed the very same Ives 4th on the same stage, with Alan Gilbert conducting the NY Philharmonic. The contrast with Botstein was astonishing. Gilbert's interpretation and overall "game plan" were on an entirely higher aesthetic level. It was a transformative musical experience.
Thank you so much. I was always thinking what is it about having one conductor or another for the same music. I‘m not a musician, thanks for your good explanation and well picked examples.
Thank you for this, it's very revealing to hear this detailed analysis of the differences between the conductors. It's always surprising when I hear a piece I've listened to from my teen years and hear it as if it's for the first time, because of the unique vision of the conductor. Your talk helps me to understand some of what that difference of vision consists of. I would enjoy hearing your analyses of singers as well, for instance the different versions available of Schubert's Die schöne Müllerin.
Please do more of these comparison! Extremely helpful. I agree Kleiber for sure. Post Script: LOL. I noticed that I had commented on this 10 months ago! Same feelings. Please Anna do more analysis of conducting. It appears lie the algorithm always takes me back to you although I was not subscribed (I just did).
This is a great comparison, and I am tickled that you chose these two performances. I had actually by happenstance compared them both a number of years ago, and was struck by how different they are. I had heard Klieber's version first, and was completely taken with it. It's beautiful. He makes it breathe, fills it with life. Then I heard Bernstein's version, and immediately reacted, "I can't believe these are the same pieces." It feels woody to me, as if the life has been let out of it. I have elsewhere read the comment that whether Brahm's 4th works or not is especially dependent on interpretation. Perhaps it is so. I enjoyed your comparison!
I've always loved the work of Leonard Bernstein. I like Kleiber's interpretation from the clips that you have shown. I'll have to go listen to that one. Thanks.
Thank you so much. Lacking formal music training, you've given me the tools to discern just how much interpretation is possible in classical music performance. As a lover of Jazz, I am now going to challenge myself to listen critically to multiple recordings of the same Classical composition. One thing I discovered from your side-by-side examples: Bernstein looks for the drama-- very consistent with his persona, no? Kleiber seems more ethereal. I'll be dramatic but sincere: you have forever changed my relationship to orchestral classical performance. And motivated me to explore and enrich my musical life.
I really really loved this video and explanation !!!! I will certainly be watching it a few more times ! Only the other day I was asking a friend of mine, who plays cello in on orchestra about conductors and if there is some specific gestures that the conductor uses, kind of like the “language” of conducting I guess.
I always had a question about if the paper partiture is always transferred to real music exactly the same way -and probably millions of people if not billions have the same problem - and this video cleared to me brilliantly the slightly different options of the conductor for the final result. Unique analysis about this matter and enough answer to my question.
Thank you so much for give us two versions of the play conducted by two diferent maestros. I can't read music, but I really like music. For my layman's ears, not knowing the play and not having any preconceived idea of how it should be played. When I heard the orchestra conducted by Bernstein with more pauses, it sounded more dramatic, sadder, as if it were announcing something bad.
Thank you! I loved this. I live in Edinburgh and go to the Usher hall concerts. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra has a fantastic young conductor, Maxim Emelyanychev. The first time I heard him conduct a Mozart piano concerto it was like hearing it for the first time. Of the two versions you showed us I preferred Kleiber even though Lenny is very close to my heart!
I really enjoyed your video. It is fascinating and clearly explained. Thanks a lot! I’d love to see more of these comparisons or performance analysis. 🙂👍🏼
Greetings from Greenville, South Carolina in May 2023. Thank you for your engaging, well-executed, and insightful video. I am a conductor in my late 60s approaching what will probably be the end of my career, but looking forward to some interesting engagements in the upcoming season. So as to give me a jolt, I have re-enrolled in the Conductors Institute of South Carolina, this time in July, in which this piece, amongst a good number of others, will be studied and coached. Actually, I was a participant in the Institute in the late 1980s and then attended workshops throughout the 90s, including one at Hunter college in New York which conductor Paul Vermel was the clinician, and who worked with us on this piece.. I have his notes from this workshop, which I will be applying to the upcoming institute this year. A great work of musical art leaves room for differing yet valid interpretations, a point that your video calls forth. In restudying the Brahms, I will keep in mind your interesting comparisons. Best wishes to you, and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
would like to join a chorus of other commentors: please, continuing your videos- comparing different maestros, or any commentary about classical music be it solo, chamber (my pesonal favorite type), anything you feel like sharing. Its a tremendous service to all of us classical music lovers. And if I may add : I find your videos as a much needed fragment of sanity in this absolutely crazy world, with several horrible wars, etc. Many thanks!
wonderful video, thank you very much! I am just a music lover, no formal education. These types of educational presentations, narrated by a professional, considerably increase enjoyment of listatning and WATCHING classical music performed. Who knows why YT "woke up" and sent this video to me, but thanks to the YT for this token of good sense and taste, notewithstanding many very bad decisions by YT
THANK YOU! This is so fascinating. I've never grasped what it is that conductors do, why they are considered so important, why one is considered GREAT and another merely pedestrian. You begin to illuminate me with this video. I would LOVE to see more of this, so will look to see what other videos you have done. One editorial comment: it would be great if, at the end of this analysis, you include longer excerpts from each - perhaps a minute or two - to illustrate how all these specific differences come together. WONDERFUL! 💖
I think it’s important how you brought out how Kleiber allowed the flutist to perform the solo in their own interpretation (to some degree) vs conductors that really control every detail. As in Herbert Von Karajan or Ricardo Muti.
Loved the video! It was both immensely informative & fun to watch. As a non-musician, I find much of the stuff you talked not that easy to grasp or, rather, notice/hear. Your commentary sure helps a lot. Hope I'm not being too demanding, but I would love it if you'd (or somebody else in the comments) speculate about what it was that informed their respective choices with almost no regard for psychologism, but instead for the historical context, different schools of thought, perhaps, etc.
I just discovered your channel. I wish I had discovered you before! Thank you so much for clarifying this. I would like a few more examples that would illuminate the different views of the conductors.
I’ve loved your video. We knew that the conductors make differences, a lot of differences, however, with my amateur eyes and ears these differences referred rather to general soul and sound of the music piece. You’ve really dissected sounds in the 4th movement of Brahms-4th and passed your message. The conductor meant way more than I though, in many many details. Wow, such good explanation. Thank you…
Thanks for the video. A lot of folks who barely listen to classical music question why a conductor is necessary. Well, now I can direct them to this video. After many decades of listening, the Kleiber Brahm's 4th is still my favorite. However, there are many others that I also enjoy. Kinda like pizza. Deep dish, Sicilian, Margarita or thin crust. It's all good.
Yes, I’m with you about Kleiber, he acts more in the way of conceiving himself as a medium of the music. I recently found a most compelling piece on TH-cam: Kleiber conducts Tristan & Isolde as seen on the screen for the singers. The image quality is very poor, which makes it all more fascinating the way Kleiber „acts“ the music. In our days conductors like Petrenko have preserved this unique approach. Having said that, i totally agree with you that Bernstein by no means is lesser - that’s the blessing of music, that it allows for a vast variety of interpretations, all providing a truth of their own.
I have another interesting aspect for you. The sound of the orchestra itself and the quality of the concert hall. This can be a big influence. In the example of the vienna philharmonic. They play with some unique instrument types who are only played by them. And they also sit in the old german order (second violins on the opposite side of the first violins, etc.) In the second excerpt you can specially hear the viennese horns who are narrow mensurated. They have a lot of attack and have more overtones and sound very clear like trumpets. The Schnellar-Timps instead are much warmer than other Timps. Third thing is. The golden hall, is a hall who has a longer reverb than modern halls because of the square shape. If you consider and make use of all of this you can maybe understand the result. You can hear a quieter first measure to support the warm sound of the Timps and the second measure you can hear the coarse and short hit of the horns, which is also carried by the reverb of the concert hall. I know Bernstein to have been a perfectionist. So I think he has considered all of this to achieve a maximum outcome.
Very interesting, but a "frase" is spelled as "phrase". No need to apologize so much, be confident in your views and I agree with you about Kleiber. Looking forward to more videos!
This is great. My family still does thisistening to two or 3 recordings of same piece with different conductors. We argue and lobby for our favorites. It's fun and you can learn to hear things you would otherwise miss. 🙂🤙🌴
Great analysis! I too, prefer Kleiber. Sometimes Bernstein is too much concerned about himself. Kleiber trusts the musicianship and allows the orchestra a chance to partake in recreating a masterpiece.❤
Really elucidative to those, like me, who love music and would like to expand their knowledge. On the other hand, I miss some info about the lovely and competent presenter: name, education background and so on. "If music be the food of love play on". Thank you for your ideal.
I had a lot of fun filming this, give this comment a like if you would like me to compare other pieces/conductors :)
And this was a lot of fun to watch, too! Please do more. It's nice to get to know conductors through the lens of another conductor.
Ooh, different idea. Maybe introduce some women conductors in a video?
would of course love to, for obvious reasons ;) but I struggle to find enough video footage since I prefer older videos for copyright reasons and most available on YT are rather recent ...but it is definitely on my mind. Thanks for the comment! :)
@@howimettheopera maybe you can just use photos and tell us about them. No need for video clips. Links to performances conducted by them in the description would supplement.
I would love to see more Brahms, Schubert's last symphonies, and Mozart operas. Those are, I think, the ultimate test pieces for conductors.
Yes! Would also love commentary on even a single conductor about what they're doing
Kleiber has such clarity in his gestures-and in his quietude. He trusts his musicians and it shows in the playing.
Yep. He serves the music, rather than using it for personal aggrandizement.
I really liked your discussion. I believe everyone that asks, "What is the conductor doing?" or, "Is the conductor really needed?" should watch this. Great Job and thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
This question brought me here! :D thanks for the vid!
If a person watches any conductor in rehearsal they would realize how talented and important they are. Ex: George Solti and L. Bernstein both have these videos on TH-cam
while no one is asking "how is the conductor doing?"
The finished product is achieved by the rehearsal weeks !! The actual performance from the conductors point of view is pretty much pure theatre ,a curtain call for all that preparation !!
I would appreciate more explanatory videos like this. I have no musical training, but love music. Any educational content like this greatly increases my understanding and enjoyment of this wonderful art form. Many thanks.
Me, too! I agree.
I agree!
As a composer and choir director, this was wonderful .... to realize how these two great conductors THINK, and how that is seen and heard in their conducting ... THANK YOU
I played in wind ensembles and orchestras for years in my younger days (and even majored in music for 3 years) and still go to some 35 to 40 concerts a year, but your video just goes to show that there is always something more to be learned and that someone like you can point out things that have never struck me or that I had forgotten. Thank you!
How wonderful you picked this symphony! It is one of my absolutely top favorites that I NEVER get tired of hearing!
What a contrast! Kleiber, the son of a great opera conductor and raised in Buenos Aires, with that great combination of German rigour and Latin dance. And Bernstein, the American romantic who milked every note for all it was worth. I doubt many people would choose Bernstein’s version just because the tempo is so leaden. It’s a great contrast and not just in the interpretations, we have two very different conducting styles in display. Thanks for putting this kind of analysis out to the public, it’s much needed and you do a great job.
I felt like Bernstein was trying to pull music out of a vat of sticky clay. I didn't care for his tempo at all.
This is very enlightening. Thank you.
I have that Kleiber Brahms 4. Now I need to listen to it again, first chance I get.
I absolutely love the Kleiber version, in particular the finale. It is so formal and yet so dramatic, the perfect synthesis of classical and baroque. That is clearly what Brahms intended, I think, but easier said than done certainly.
Thank you for these comparisons. Any analysis that helps me (a non-musician) hear more critically and discerningly is a gift that will keep on giving.
Thank you for making the video, finally I got a clear understanding of what the conductor and his gesture is doing. This is very helpful and fascinating!
It is fantastic, a comprehensive comparison of Conducting; although I came to exactly the reverse conclusion with the 2 versions. For me it is Bernstein on almost all points that you have highlighted.
I almost always prefer another conductor to Bernstein but I can’t argue that he always conjures something unique and vivid. I almost always watch Bernstein recordings when looking for inspiration. Like him or not, he’s completely, unapologetically himself. Kleiber is just so utterly legendary! He has so much control over the orchestra and its so easy to understand his movements and expressions. Kleiber also generates a lot more true-to-score recordings, whilst still making them special in their colours!
Love the comparison of conductors! I also am a Carlos fan.
Last year I had the good fortune to hear a performance of this with the Los Angeles Philharmonic conducted by Simone Young. She received a thunderous standing ovation from the audience which is rare in this work. She is retuning again this year and I hope to be there. FYI.,my own favorite recordings are still Furtwangler and Walter. Thank you for a most interesting video.
Please do more of these videos: very interesting. Thank you for sharing !
What a wonderfully interesting video. As a former professional clarinettist it never failed to amaze me that you could have the exact same group of musicians, same piece of music and, like your video, get completely differing outcomes and not just in tempo! Thanks for taking the time and effort to make this - superb.
It's not the same group of musicians.
@@orientaldagger6920 Yes, I know! I was making my point about the group/s of musicians that I, personally, played with but could have different results with different conductors. This video does not suggest that the clips are the same musicians. OK?
Bernstein's is definitely more dramatic. The contrast really draws out the drama. Kleiber's is definitely creating beauty from musical cohesion.
It's almost strange to prefer one over the other because their purpose seems entirely different. Bernstein sounds like he's directing a play for drama through contrast and Kleiber like he is trying to draw attention composer's musicality by showing how well the sections compliment each other.
Very nice way to put it!
I feel like Bernstein is trying to convey the deep emotions behind the music, which in my view was why Brahms wrote this music in the first place. To me those emotions reflect Brahms's lifelong experience of unrequited love and his helplessness and despair in the entire area of romantic relationships. I think Bernstein understood these emotions (even though he had a very full and active romantic and social life, in contrast to Brahms), and tries to bring it out. I expect quite a lot of other conductors may have never had quite the same emotional experiences as Brahms had and might not even recognize what Brahms was likely feeling or trying to convey, so naturally it will not be something they would be able to focus on when performing his music. Fortunately the music is also beautiful and at times exciting and powerful no matter how you interpret it.
First of all: marvelous review. Articulate, cogent and thoughtful.
Second: As a former musician, I truly enjoy making comparisons of different Conductors, especially after having the benefit of listening to most of them in person.
Third: Excellent choice in choosing Bernstein and Kleiber. Very different techniques and tempi with a great deal of their personality showing through.
Fourth: My preference in Conductors: My two favorites are Sir Georg Solti and Carlos Keiber. When you close your eyes listening to either Conductor, you are transported to Nirvana hearing the singing of Angels.
Thank-you so much for posting. Your presentation is all that is wonderful about TH-cam. Keep it going.
Many many years ago, the late great Karl Haas did a similar program on WQXR-FM in New York. He compared different conductors with the opening of Beethoven Five, including a comparison of the young Bernstein and a later, more mature, one. So educational -- thank you so much for this analysis of Brahms!
Thanks for an illuminating lesson in conducting styles. Have to admit that Kleiber is much more in keeping with my idea of Brahms.
Listen to the 1935 BBC Orch - Toscanini Brahms 4th and the 1943 Berlin Phil - Furtwangler Brahms 4th. The 4th movement of each time out to within 1 second of each other. They are polar opposite perspectives or interpretations, yet both are very true to the nature of Brahms.
Great video. I always wondered what effect the conductor had on an orchestra and how they communicated it, now I have a better understanding. Thank you very much.
Excelente. Gosto muito de assistir a concertos da mesma peça por diferentes regentes e orquestras, é uma experiência prazerosa. Então esse vídeo com explicações técnicas foi sensacional. Que venha mais!
Very valuable explanation of what conductors do that matters and how they go about it. Thank you for taking the time to make and post this (and for having the background that allows you the insights).
Wow, I have spent several years watching several orchestras without understanding the behind the scenes information you provided. I am not a musician and will never really get this but you opened my eyes to the function of the conductor and how important they are to what I hear. Thanks.
Carlos Kleiber was a joy to watch, and his recordings are a joy to hear! Interpretation is a tricky thing, but Kleiber's light touch better serves the listener here. I don't particularly care for Bernstein's plodding tempo in this example.
Excellent video. As an ex-professional oboist now running a New Space start up....I was surprised I actually liked the Bernstein better. I think you hit the nail on the head, JB wanted all the intricacies played. And one can never really get away from the fact that that piece was the last piece JB heard in public in that very hall in Wien.... LB was certainly aware of this... All very cool!
Bernstein chose slower tempi as he got older. I heard the VPO live with him doing Brahms' 4th, and it was amazing. I think he was building intensity with the more full-bodied instruments.
that's amazing that you heard it live! what an experience
It is ironic that the conductor who came out pre-concert to apologize for Gould’s ‘slow’ D minor concerto ended up so far on the other side of the fence!
It would be interesting to hear a Bernstein led orchestra play Brahms 4 much earlier in his conducting career
@@catherinescott562he recorded it earlier with the New York phil
And btw, Toscanini's and Furtwangler's 4th movement, 4th Symphony both time out to about 9:31. My1980 Kleiber recording with Vienna times out to 9:15 and his recording with Berlin in 1994 his recording times out to 9:23. Bernstein has a 1953 recording that times out to 10:50 (NY Stadium Orchestra), then in a 1972 video with Boston times out over 11:20 and in the Vienna video you show closes in on almost 12 minutes. So basically 9 1/2 minutes vs 11 1/2 minutes on average. Perhaps Bernstein felt the 1927 Abendroth recording or the 1929 Fiedler recording, which have similar slow 4th movements, were more in keeping with Brahms' intentions, but already in 1934 Walter begins to speed things up a bit and the movement does not appear to drag. Even the 1953 Knappertsbusch recording moves at a snappier pace than Bernstein's. It also has an explosive 2nd beat in the 1st variation of the theme. I appreciate your analysis and comparisons very much.
You help explain why I often search different versions of my favorite movements to find out which one stirs me the most. I am amazed at how much difference there can be. I'm not sure what I'm looking for on a technical level, but more on an emotional level and reaction to the music.
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful analysis. I am an 80-year-old music lover who knows very little about music but who lived within walking distance of the Philadelphia Academy of Music during the Eugene Ormandy era. I often wondered about the role of a conductor during a performance and, in my own simple way, came to the conclusion that the musicians came to know what the conductor expected during rehearsals just as a sports team knows how to execute plays designed by the coach during the practice sessions - not during the actual game. In my later years I have become a fan of Wagner and find so many variations in approach. I have also listened to many, many performances of Sherezade and am amazed at how the length of a performance can vary several minutes. I am surprised how infrequently it is performed given it so appealing to the general listener. If you ever do review it, I would love your comments on the interaction between the first violin and the conductor during the opening phrases of Sherezade. The bow requires such a delicate touch it seems the first violin would not be able to look away from his instrument. Also, I love seeing the percussionists and would appreciate your comments on their role in such pieces. They may have only a few beats, but the timing has to be spot-on. Best wishes. I hope you feel encouraged to keep up your explanations as it must require quite a bit of time and background research to make a meaningful comparative analysis. It is appreciated.
Excellent thoughts, please continue!
Great!! I am a very professional musician playing in orchestras for the last 40 years….and you are perfectly right. You can read my comments. I wrote them before I read yours.
About Scheherezade. There is not very much interaction really. In most of the places the conductor follows the concertmaster because most of the solos are quite free in tempo, like a cadenza. In all the other parts the concertmaster just plays along like all the other players. The conductor conducts the whole orchestra and everybody plays. As I said, in all the other solos, the concertmaster is very free. Normally they can discuss matters of taste. Like, maybe you could do this or that, you can discuss how long or short a fermata can be etc.
I am in Philadelphia. ❤ The Philadelphia Orchestra
@@katrinat.3032 also a great cheese.
I loved your assessment. As a conductor, I love the opinions and conversations of thoughtful artists. Thank you!!
Lovely video. Really well done. Wonderful clear explanation.
I do these type of comparisons with my (private) students after having done that with my kids when they were trying. 😂
One of my favorite examples is Gustav Mahler's 9th symphony. In one version, conducted by Bernstein and in another by Otto Klemperer. The differences are striking.
I would love to see a future video were you cover this.
Thank you for this lovely video.
Great video and great content!
Both of these conductors are absolutely stunning musicians, but Kleiber creates a very special and unique aura with every piece he conducts!
thank you! and yes, I agree, Kleiber's aura was special
Kleiber really had a gift
This is a nice, succinct demonstration of how two great conductors can present very different renditions of the same composition.
(This also illustrates to me again why I also love C. Kleiber so much.)
To be fair, though, what we see in performance is just the tip of the iceberg. Having attended many orchestra rehearsals I can attest that's where the conductor does the real interpretive work, frequently even singing to the players how they want passages to be phrased, etc.
Thank you so much for this! I was just having a conversation with someone recently about the purpose of a conductor and how they define how a musical score is performed. This really puts things into perspective and makes you realize all the nuances that help shape the performance.
Thanks for watching, I'm glad it helped
You give such clear and valid opinions and use such great conductors! Great videos.
Yess - bitte viel mehr davon, sooo spannend, unterhaltsam und aufschlussreich. Danke von ganzem Herzen für deine Arbeit voller Hingabe. ❤
awesome video, it really showcased how important a conductor is in an orchestra. i hope you make more comparison videos like this.
Thanks a lot, definitely planning on doing more of these!
Its exactly the other way around…..orchestras make 95% of the quality of a performance.
Its the old legend about the huge power of conductors….while really bad conductors keep sounding great….example: Herreweghe and Concertgebouw. An amateur conductor „trying“ to conduct a great orchestra. Sounds great. Take Carlos Kleiber to Asuncion, Paraguay and let him conduct an orchestra there…it would sound horrible.
But the legend goes on and on and on….
Good to have stumbled on this video. Amazing contrasts. Thank you.
Many years ago I tried buying audio equipment to try and compare and contrast how different ensembles and conductors come out with the same movement of the same work... A non-starter. So thanks for your effort.
(From Bangalore, India)
Good job! Very interesting to this orchestral musician of 45 years. Keep up the good work!
Great idea for a video, well done. I'll take Kleiber on this as well. Just tempos alone. Berstein was turning some of that music into a dirge.
First of all, thank you for creating this wonderful video.
I want to focus on what Carlos Kleiber did with the flute solo, he follows what I believe it was a Richard Strauss rule: "never conduct a player during a solo part". What Kleiber does was not dictate the result from inside like Bernstein: "I want that", Kleiber shows how he want to feel, so the flute player is aimed to create the most beautiful possible sound, the most delicated phrasing in order to please Kleiber spiritual feeling, and more important, to not dissapoint him.
I think this is exactly correct. That solo player should be left alone and I had a feeling which way she would go. I don't know a lot about it but Bernstein I think was a bit of an ego maniac
Bernstein is not exactly conducting the solo flute; he is drawing the strings and horn around the flute solo. That can be tricky and compromise the solo if not well done. I don't agree with Bernstein's overall conception, but it is done to such a high standard that I find it fascinating too.
Insightful. Your observation “It’s a matter of vision” was spot on.
Thank you. Very interesting. When I was a musician, we got the impression Leonard Bernstein always took tempi very fast. Great to see the exception here. Wonderful explanations, thank you.
Thank you for this. I appreciated your vision and analyse between these two great conductors. Congratulations.
I know basically zero about music. I came here because I searched “what makes good conductor.” I cannot speak to that issue, but I can say this this is a great video. Clearly and honestly explained. Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
Super interesting. I never appreciated what a conductor contributed to a symphony before. Thanks!
A very interesting and enjoyable insight into conductors’ interpretations of music. And thank you for introducing me to Kleiber. I have since watched film of him in rehearsal and am in awe of his understanding of the music and his exceptional ability to communicate with the orchestra. Where some conductors appear to be directing the orchestra, Kleiber seems to become an integral part of it.
This is great! There are many dimensions that you can go with this theme. For example, how different conductors communicate to the orchestra, how different conductor temperaments affect/inspire playing, how rehearsals are conducted. So fun and so informative!!
Agree with @markoconnell304. Having sung with opera choruses, the different kind of communication is so important. And, it has an effect on the chorus, many times on its morale!
@@susanlandsman9572yes I’ve read about some very famous conductors who were let go basically. This was because they crush the souls of the musicians with endless perfectionism
Brilliant idea for an analysis - comparing two contrasting conductors in visual as well as aural performance. A fascinating video resulted. I think you have started a new analytical trend that will grow and grow!
I agree with your choice on every level. It reminded me of something Benjamin Zander says a lot about romantic music - it is all in one, and that interpretation makes so much sense to me.
Absolutely fascinating. Two of my favorite conductors. I would never have noticed all the points that you brought out.
Thank you for this excellent comparison of two of the great conductors of the 20th century. Wikipedia says that Kleiber studied chemistry at ETH in Zurich. No doubt he would have been a great chemist, but his switch to a career in music was a gift to all of us. (My doctoral thesis adviser’s thesis adviser studied chemistry there with Peter Debye, the Nobelist who took Einstein’s place at ETH when Einstein moved to Prague.) I loved how you contrasted Kleiber’s and Bernstein’s approaches to a fragment of one movement of the Brahms. Now I would like to hear your take on their overall treatments of the complete work. One rarely gets this sort of exposure first-hand, but it occasionally happens. In 2002 my choir (The Dessoff Choirs) sang Ives's 4th Symphony in Lincoln Center with the American Symphony conducted by Leon Botstein. Of course it was thrilling to be on the same stage where Bernstein once led the NY Philharmonic, and I got to love the Ives symphony. But then two years later we were hired by the NY Philharmonic itself and performed the very same Ives 4th on the same stage, with Alan Gilbert conducting the NY Philharmonic. The contrast with Botstein was astonishing. Gilbert's interpretation and overall "game plan" were on an entirely higher aesthetic level. It was a transformative musical experience.
it is a great pleasure for me to watch your analyses about these performances! Please continue!!!
I would watch a 3 hour+ version of this video and many more like it! Thanks for this.
thank you! definitely planning on doing some sequels soon :)
I love Kleiber as well. Great video!
Maravilloso video!!! Justo leia Secretos de la dirección orquestal de Wilhelm Furtwaengler que compramos en los 60's. Gracias.
I learned so much from this short comparison! Excellent! I look forward to more!
My view towards conductor changes forever after watching your video. Thanks
From a conducting student of Herbert Blomstedt, a good discussion of both technique, and approach. Thank you.
I just found you. I love your comments and I am learning a lot. Thanks
Thank you so much. I was always thinking what is it about having one conductor or another for the same music. I‘m not a musician, thanks for your good explanation and well picked examples.
Thank you for this, it's very revealing to hear this detailed analysis of the differences between the conductors. It's always surprising when I hear a piece I've listened to from my teen years and hear it as if it's for the first time, because of the unique vision of the conductor. Your talk helps me to understand some of what that difference of vision consists of. I would enjoy hearing your analyses of singers as well, for instance the different versions available of Schubert's Die schöne Müllerin.
Please do more of these comparison! Extremely helpful. I agree Kleiber for sure. Post Script: LOL. I noticed that I had commented on this 10 months ago! Same feelings. Please Anna do more analysis of conducting. It appears lie the algorithm always takes me back to you although I was not subscribed (I just did).
This is a great comparison, and I am tickled that you chose these two performances. I had actually by happenstance compared them both a number of years ago, and was struck by how different they are.
I had heard Klieber's version first, and was completely taken with it. It's beautiful. He makes it breathe, fills it with life.
Then I heard Bernstein's version, and immediately reacted, "I can't believe these are the same pieces." It feels woody to me, as if the life has been let out of it.
I have elsewhere read the comment that whether Brahm's 4th works or not is especially dependent on interpretation. Perhaps it is so.
I enjoyed your comparison!
Interesting analysis. Thank you. Agree w/ you. Please do more!
Great hands! They never stop moving. Really interesting, thanks for posting!
Highly recommend Corresponding With Carlos, by Charles Barber. The most comprehensive document about that marvelous trikster!
I've always loved the work of Leonard Bernstein. I like Kleiber's interpretation from the clips that you have shown. I'll have to go listen to that one. Thanks.
Thank you so much. Lacking formal music training, you've given me the tools to discern just how much interpretation is possible in classical music performance. As a lover of Jazz, I am now going to challenge myself to listen critically to multiple recordings of the same Classical composition. One thing I discovered from your side-by-side examples: Bernstein looks for the drama-- very consistent with his persona, no? Kleiber seems more ethereal. I'll be dramatic but sincere: you have forever changed my relationship to orchestral classical performance. And motivated me to explore and enrich my musical life.
this video (and the Beet V opening) is interesting, instructive,and well presented. thanks!
I really really loved this video and explanation !!!! I will certainly be watching it a few more times ! Only the other day I was asking a friend of mine, who plays cello in on orchestra about conductors and if there is some specific gestures that the conductor uses, kind of like the “language” of conducting I guess.
I always had a question about if the paper partiture is always transferred to real music exactly the same way -and probably millions of people if not billions have the same problem - and this video cleared to me brilliantly the slightly different options of the conductor for the final result. Unique analysis about this matter and enough answer to my question.
What a great comparison. The nuances found in the conducting styles are little known or understood. Great piece.
Thank you so much for give us two versions of the play conducted by two diferent maestros. I can't read music, but I really like music. For my layman's ears, not knowing the play and not having any preconceived idea of how it should be played. When I heard the orchestra conducted by Bernstein with more pauses, it sounded more dramatic, sadder, as if it were announcing something bad.
great - looking forward to more episodes!
LOVED this! Very helpful! Going to be eagerly searching everything you are publishing on line. Thank you!
Thank you very much!
Thank you! I loved this. I live in Edinburgh and go to the Usher hall concerts. The Scottish Chamber Orchestra has a fantastic young conductor, Maxim Emelyanychev. The first time I heard him conduct a Mozart piano concerto it was like hearing it for the first time. Of the two versions you showed us I preferred Kleiber even though Lenny is very close to my heart!
I really enjoyed your video. It is fascinating and clearly explained. Thanks a lot! I’d love to see more of these comparisons or performance analysis. 🙂👍🏼
Thanks for watching, definitely planning on doing this more often cause it was a lot of fun to make!
Greetings from Greenville, South Carolina in May 2023. Thank you for your engaging, well-executed, and insightful video. I am a conductor in my late 60s approaching what will probably be the end of my career, but looking forward to some interesting engagements in the upcoming season. So as to give me a jolt, I have re-enrolled in the Conductors Institute of South Carolina, this time in July, in which this piece, amongst a good number of others, will be studied and coached. Actually, I was a participant in the Institute in the late 1980s and then attended workshops throughout the 90s, including one at Hunter college in New York which conductor Paul Vermel was the clinician, and who worked with us on this piece.. I have his notes from this workshop, which I will be applying to the upcoming institute this year. A great work of musical art leaves room for differing yet valid interpretations, a point that your video calls forth. In restudying the Brahms, I will keep in mind your interesting comparisons. Best wishes to you, and thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
would like to join a chorus of other commentors: please, continuing your videos- comparing different maestros, or any commentary about classical music be it solo, chamber (my pesonal favorite type), anything you feel like sharing. Its a tremendous service to all of us classical music lovers. And if I may add : I find your videos as a much needed fragment of sanity in this absolutely crazy world, with several horrible wars, etc.
Many thanks!
wonderful video, thank you very much! I am just a music lover, no formal education. These types of educational presentations, narrated by a professional, considerably increase enjoyment of listatning and WATCHING classical music performed.
Who knows why YT "woke up" and sent this video to me, but thanks to the YT for this token of good sense and taste, notewithstanding many very bad decisions by YT
THANK YOU! This is so fascinating. I've never grasped what it is that conductors do, why they are considered so important, why one is considered GREAT and another merely pedestrian. You begin to illuminate me with this video. I would LOVE to see more of this, so will look to see what other videos you have done. One editorial comment: it would be great if, at the end of this analysis, you include longer excerpts from each - perhaps a minute or two - to illustrate how all these specific differences come together. WONDERFUL! 💖
I think it’s important how you brought out how Kleiber allowed the flutist to perform the solo in their own interpretation (to some degree) vs conductors that really control every detail. As in Herbert Von Karajan or Ricardo Muti.
Loved the video! It was both immensely informative & fun to watch.
As a non-musician, I find much of the stuff you talked not that easy to grasp or, rather, notice/hear. Your commentary sure helps a lot.
Hope I'm not being too demanding, but I would love it if you'd (or somebody else in the comments) speculate about what it was that informed their respective choices with almost no regard for psychologism, but instead for the historical context, different schools of thought, perhaps, etc.
I just discovered your channel. I wish I had discovered you before! Thank you so much for clarifying this. I would like a few more examples that would illuminate the different views of the conductors.
Nice analysis, thank you
I’ve loved your video. We knew that the conductors make differences, a lot of differences, however, with my amateur eyes and ears these differences referred rather to general soul and sound of the music piece. You’ve really dissected sounds in the 4th movement of Brahms-4th and passed your message. The conductor meant way more than I though, in many many details. Wow, such good explanation. Thank you…
Thanks for the video. A lot of folks who barely listen to classical music question why a conductor is necessary. Well, now I can direct them to this video. After many decades of listening, the Kleiber Brahm's 4th is still my favorite. However, there are many others that I also enjoy. Kinda like pizza. Deep dish, Sicilian, Margarita or thin crust. It's all good.
You should do this more often. You should have a tv show, I'd watch it every week
Yes, I’m with you about Kleiber, he acts more in the way of conceiving himself as a medium of the music. I recently found a most compelling piece on TH-cam: Kleiber conducts Tristan & Isolde as seen on the screen for the singers. The image quality is very poor, which makes it all more fascinating the way Kleiber „acts“ the music. In our days conductors like Petrenko have preserved this unique approach. Having said that, i totally agree with you that Bernstein by no means is lesser - that’s the blessing of music, that it allows for a vast variety of interpretations, all providing a truth of their own.
I really enjoyed this, and would like to hear other pieces. I have noticed how different conductors lead orchestras in different directions.
I have another interesting aspect for you. The sound of the orchestra itself and the quality of the concert hall. This can be a big influence.
In the example of the vienna philharmonic. They play with some unique instrument types who are only played by them. And they also sit in the old german order (second violins on the opposite side of the first violins, etc.)
In the second excerpt you can specially hear the viennese horns who are narrow mensurated. They have a lot of attack and have more overtones and sound very clear like trumpets.
The Schnellar-Timps instead are much warmer than other Timps.
Third thing is. The golden hall, is a hall who has a longer reverb than modern halls because of the square shape.
If you consider and make use of all of this you can maybe understand the result. You can hear a quieter first measure to support the warm sound of the Timps and the second measure you can hear the coarse and short hit of the horns, which is also carried by the reverb of the concert hall.
I know Bernstein to have been a perfectionist. So I think he has considered all of this to achieve a maximum outcome.
I really found the explanations very helpful, thank you for taking the time to put this together
Very interesting, but a "frase" is spelled as "phrase". No need to apologize so much, be confident in your views and I agree with you about Kleiber. Looking forward to more videos!
This is great. My family still does thisistening to two or 3 recordings of same piece with different conductors. We argue and lobby for our favorites. It's fun and you can learn to hear things you would otherwise miss.
🙂🤙🌴
Great analysis! I too, prefer Kleiber.
Sometimes Bernstein is too much concerned about himself. Kleiber trusts the musicianship and allows the orchestra a chance to partake in recreating a masterpiece.❤
Really elucidative to those, like me, who love music and would like to expand their knowledge. On the other hand, I miss some info about the lovely and competent presenter: name, education background and so on. "If music be the food of love play on". Thank you for your ideal.