HLG looks better hands down. I film with HLG and I don’t have to do a lot more in post unless I really want to. Your footage is good, maybe a tad bit too much “orange/teal”.
I like the the look of the HLG3 because it has a more quality look in your sample footage. The dynamic range automatically gives a better cinematic look hands down. Also editing the HLG3 is similar to editing Raw footage when you look at how the detail is retained even when you bring down the highlights all the way. much more detail in the shadows than the cine profile. I would like to mention that I would bring down the Saturation and detail in camera so that you have a little more wiggle room in post. Every little bit helps when you are dealing with 8 bit and only 100 Mbps of data. the in camera saturation is not necessarily the same saturation that you would use in post so why not keep your options open as wide as possible Well, that is my 2 cents. Great vid keep up the great work!!!
The advantage to HLG3 that 99% of people overlook, or seem unaware of, is that it can be converted to HDR10 (PQ ST2084) without any grading necessary. HLG3 viewed in HDR as HLG has no noisy shadow issues. When converted to HDR10, also, no shadow noise. The fact is looks proper as HDR10 and noisy shadows as SDR, should remind you it is an HDR gamma, and using it for SDR is not really it's strongest feature.
not a fan of the HLG's red looking skin tones. It is basically a variation of the cyan-orange split toning that everyone does and it makes it look too processed and less cinematic. Cine4 has much less contrast and has better skin tones. I love sonys cameras but they don't seem to handle skin tones as well as something like the Fuji xt-3
Nice video mate! The only problem of HLG is the noise in the shadows, clearly visible in your video, but the DR is quite good. Cine4 compress to much informations in the midrange to give more highlights informations. Cine2 is a better choice in any case , the highlights roll-off with skin tones are gentle and pleasing, it's almost noise free in the shadows, it record in a range of 100% so you will have better color informations, easy to edit...give it a try ;) You guys are great! Keep rocking!
awsome ive been debating on which pp to stick with been switching in-between s-log 2 hlg now im thinking of cine2 because what you just said about the highligh roll off does it retain in sky and what not and look good which pp do you use when in cine2 ?
Hello! I've been digging and digging into my own testing here, running into issues with Slog3, finding out that my camera (Sony a6400) shoots in 8bit color, then looking towards HLG2, Slog2 and Cine4. I also noticed a significant difference of noise in the shadows in cine4 (though I liked the grade better in HLG), but what are your thoughts in shooting in low light? Slog2 for when there is plenty of light? And then Cine4 for low light?
We use HLG 2 whenever there’s a lot of light available, mainly to get a smooth highlight rolloff and good dynamic range. That said, it’s a pretty noisy gamma when shooting in low light conditions, we then switch to our custom PP which is much more contrasty. Good job, greetings.
I really don't know why people use Cine4 unless shooting a low light scene. The Cine1/2 gammas will retain highlights much better, which is what most people are wanting most of the time. Also, when using the HLG gammas, the two color space options Bt2020 and Rec709 are significantly different. A better test would have been to shoot Cine4 and HLG with the Rec709 color space for a more objective look at what the gammas are doing differently.
Cine1 is best even in low light. Look at Geoffrey Gonzales video on a7iii. He publish its settings after intensive tests. Cine1 is a log setting but less intensive. The guy explains everything.
Sometimes it feels like every video about colour grading/colour science on specific cameras are just extended ads for the creators LUT pack. Hard to tell how biased or true some of the things they say are.
I used to shoot only HLG3 when i first got my A7iii. But, I hated the way it rendered skin tones. Everything was to red and orange. Skin tones in my shots always looked like oompa loompa skin. Your talking head shots show a bit orangey as well. You may want to checkout hlg2 and/or move from bt2020 to rec709😉
how do you push so much teal into the shadows on some of your clips without the image breaking apart? I've been running into that issue and i've just been thinking i should possibly upgrade to something like the GH5 that is 10 bit that may help with the image not falling apart. your help would be much appreciated.
I sold my a6500 and bought an a6400 so I could have the HLG profile. I shoot with multiple Sony cameras, so having each one using the same color profile helps me keep a similar look when I start editing.
Honestly, all these videos from creators are confusing me! I am just getting back into photography after 18 years, and want to now do video. No creators talk about the available light conditions. I bet it makes a difference whether it is sunny, overcast, warm morning or evening light, Mid-day, etc... so, I bet there is no "one size fits all " setting because conditions are different and can even change constantly. What do you think? Thanks!
I'll only use HLG3 on my Sony A7iii. More forgiving, beter dynamic range, nice skin tones. I'm using a corrective - leeming - lut. I did use slog3 ones and it is terrible for all-round-usage. Same for Cine4. Only in contoled situations, i.e. low dynamic range. The main effort must be on good exposure and white balance. Stick to 95% zebra's! Leave the upper 5% to color information.
@@cr7-w1s5k Everything on default as it comes in PP10 and use HLG3. Only detail is -7. But you have to use a corrective lut like leeming. If you don’t thank you have to tweek in camera but it is not as accurate as with a corrective lut. If you still want it out of camera and no corrective lut than besides HLG3 and detail -7 also color phase -3.
How do you invalidate the color to rec 709? do you use any lut? because if I invalidate 709 in final cut the image is dull and greenish and if I put in bt2020 the skin tones are very red
I like the HLG3 on the a bit older Sony Cameras A 7 S2 & A7 R III much better unless you record via HDMI to a recording monitor in ProResRaw or Black Magic Raw. For the Apple ProRes Raw I have to say that I prefer the 7' Shogun Flame over the Ninja bc it has a much better HLG color range than the Ninja V. I would go so far to say that than you use the Flame you can hardly see an improvement from the S 2 to the S. There is just a slight color shift if you compare both, especially in Videos shot at night at high ISO levels. And even though Sony will not admit this, but then you buy instead of a G master lens a higher Grade Zeiss lens, especially the Otus line, than I actually prefer just the picture/video quality of the S 2 & R 3
You have this preset call “70’s” I was wondering in future if you creating more luts for Sony it would be nice to include something like this it’s feels like old Fuji colors. It would be awesome if a néw version of your luts will include orange and teal vibes, old film look and so on.
That helped me a lot! I was thinking about changing to slog profiles to get more details in skys etc. But, as you mentioned, the slogs are not the best if you have to be quick. Thanks 💪🏻
@Monkeypixels you convinced me to choose HLG3 over Cine4, but can you tell me how to expose footage for HLG3 right? +1 to +1.5 steps? False color? Thank you!
sehr schöner Vergleich, danke dafür. Findet dein Edit in einem rec709-Projekt statt? Überschreibst du dann den Farbraum? Das spackte bei mir des öfteren.
Mathieu Psyché I use Rec709 for HLG3 and I think it’s the better choice, because I know my delivery is 709 and not a wider gamut. That only creates more problems than it’s worth at the moment.
@@alex.munteanapparently what you di is wrong, you lose information by not setting bt2020. In low light high iso Cine1 with Cinema or Pro and other custom settings give the best to avoid shadow noise and color noise. Look at Geoffrey Gonzales video on a7iii he made intensive tests.
I bought a recorder so I had 10bit. It is a world of difference. My A7s2 is like a new camera. Not exactly like my bmpcc 6k, but for run-n- gun it's aces now.
I use HLG3, but with Rec709 instead of BT2020. That might be the reason your colors were off. I agree that even with Rec709 selected it oversaturates the reds.
Ivan GRANID sure you can tweak the colors from there to a certain extent, but Rec709 and BT2020 have different colors to them and if you use BT2020 which is a larger gamut you have to convert it to Rec709 when you color the footage in your NLE, unless your timeline are output are Rec2020, of course.
Monkeypixels ja und dann passt das meistens auch. Wenn man die footage dann allerdings im multicam tool nutzt fängt sie an zu spinnen.. Ich musste neulich meine ganze footage rausrendern und neu importieren, damit es geklappt hat..
Super Video! 🙌🏻 bin eigentlich auch genau eurer Meinung. SLOG bei 8 bit finde ich auch nicht wirklich sinnvoll, speziell bei run & gun oder so... 🧗🏼♂️ Mein aktuelles Video, welches morgen Premiere hat, hab ich komplett in Cine4 gefilmt. Werde aber wohl doch mit HLG weitermachen, speziell der Highlight Rolloff ist echt super find ich... 😊
I was ready to change my picture profile to cine 4 but from watching your video made me like nahh, hlg3 is better so yeah I will stick it to it..nice video..
HLG looks better hands down. I film with HLG and I don’t have to do a lot more in post unless I really want to. Your footage is good, maybe a tad bit too much “orange/teal”.
instablaster...
What do you overexpose by?
agree HLG2 and HLG3 are best
I like the the look of the HLG3 because it has a more quality look in your sample footage. The dynamic range automatically gives a better cinematic look hands down. Also editing the HLG3 is similar to editing Raw footage when you look at how the detail is retained even when you bring down the highlights all the way. much more detail in the shadows than the cine profile. I would like to mention that I would bring down the Saturation and detail in camera so that you have a little more wiggle room in post. Every little bit helps when you are dealing with 8 bit and only 100 Mbps of data. the in camera saturation is not necessarily the same saturation that you would use in post so why not keep your options open as wide as possible Well, that is my 2 cents. Great vid keep up the great work!!!
Thanks for this!!!
do you use it in bt2020 as well?
@@TereWild yes, but I kind of go back and forth.
@@VidHeadz back and forth to what??
@@TereWild back and forth to rec709 setting
HLG looks crazy good 🤔
Both look so GOOD!
The advantage to HLG3 that 99% of people overlook, or seem unaware of, is that it can be converted to HDR10 (PQ ST2084) without any grading necessary. HLG3 viewed in HDR as HLG has no noisy shadow issues. When converted to HDR10, also, no shadow noise. The fact is looks proper as HDR10 and noisy shadows as SDR, should remind you it is an HDR gamma, and using it for SDR is not really it's strongest feature.
not a fan of the HLG's red looking skin tones. It is basically a variation of the cyan-orange split toning that everyone does and it makes it look too processed and less cinematic. Cine4 has much less contrast and has better skin tones. I love sonys cameras but they don't seem to handle skin tones as well as something like the Fuji xt-3
i use HLG 2 , good video , and with all due respect , i watched it till the end just because of that BEAUTIFUL woman :)
I’m using HLG3 on my ZV-1. I simply expand the highlights and shadows and do very little to the colour apart from saturation. It’s great!
Use color space transform or a conversion lut instead. If you want it to be sooc just use standard/neutral profile.
Nice video mate! The only problem of HLG is the noise in the shadows, clearly visible in your video, but the DR is quite good. Cine4 compress to much informations in the midrange to give more highlights informations. Cine2 is a better choice in any case , the highlights roll-off with skin tones are gentle and pleasing, it's almost noise free in the shadows, it record in a range of 100% so you will have better color informations, easy to edit...give it a try ;)
You guys are great! Keep rocking!
Thanks!
awsome ive been debating on which pp to stick with been switching in-between s-log 2 hlg now im thinking of cine2 because what you just said about the highligh roll off does it retain in sky and what not and look good which pp do you use when in cine2 ?
Hello!
I've been digging and digging into my own testing here, running into issues with Slog3, finding out that my camera (Sony a6400) shoots in 8bit color, then looking towards HLG2, Slog2 and Cine4.
I also noticed a significant difference of noise in the shadows in cine4 (though I liked the grade better in HLG), but what are your thoughts in shooting in low light? Slog2 for when there is plenty of light? And then Cine4 for low light?
@@hughjidiot3923standard pp
We use HLG 2 whenever there’s a lot of light available, mainly to get a smooth highlight rolloff and good dynamic range.
That said, it’s a pretty noisy gamma when shooting in low light conditions, we then switch to our custom PP which is much more contrasty.
Good job, greetings.
Resize Films would you share your custom PP?
2nd that request @resizefilms
2nd that @resize films
I really don't know why people use Cine4 unless shooting a low light scene. The Cine1/2 gammas will retain highlights much better, which is what most people are wanting most of the time.
Also, when using the HLG gammas, the two color space options Bt2020 and Rec709 are significantly different. A better test would have been to shoot Cine4 and HLG with the Rec709 color space for a more objective look at what the gammas are doing differently.
Cine1 is best even in low light. Look at Geoffrey Gonzales video on a7iii. He publish its settings after intensive tests. Cine1 is a log setting but less intensive. The guy explains everything.
Sometimes it feels like every video about colour grading/colour science on specific cameras are just extended ads for the creators LUT pack. Hard to tell how biased or true some of the things they say are.
I get where you’re coming from. But how would it be biased as we’re selling luts for both profiles 🤷🏼♂️😂
the diskussions here about 10000 sony colorprofiles in 8 BIT...i love it
Can you share about how you set your white balance on this video? Thanks. Nice comparison, nice video very informative. Subbed 👍🏻
Setting for white balance? Auto?
never auto ;) mostly 5600 I guess
@@damiencooper How about ISO? Auto or Manual with HLG3?
@@damiencooper newbie here for grading and you literally can't grade if you use awb
I was focusing on the color quality of your video footages the whole time.
ofc you are
I used to shoot only HLG3 when i first got my A7iii. But, I hated the way it rendered skin tones. Everything was to red and orange. Skin tones in my shots always looked like oompa loompa skin. Your talking head shots show a bit orangey as well. You may want to checkout hlg2 and/or move from bt2020 to rec709😉
Great comparison, I have a Sony a6400 and I struggle with color correction and dynamic range so this helps a lot.
how do you push so much teal into the shadows on some of your clips without the image breaking apart? I've been running into that issue and i've just been thinking i should possibly upgrade to something like the GH5 that is 10 bit that may help with the image not falling apart. your help would be much appreciated.
I sold my a6500 and bought an a6400 so I could have the HLG profile. I shoot with multiple Sony cameras, so having each one using the same color profile helps me keep a similar look when I start editing.
Do you exposure any differently with these profiles ? Ie higher with the HLG to save some noise in the shadows.
I have a green tint if I use hlg2 or 3. Any solutions out there?
Honestly, all these videos from creators are confusing me! I am just getting back into photography after 18 years, and want to now do video. No creators talk about the available light conditions. I bet it makes a difference whether it is sunny, overcast, warm morning or evening light, Mid-day, etc... so, I bet there is no "one size fits all " setting because conditions are different and can even change constantly. What do you think? Thanks!
6781 Rolfson Port
I'll only use HLG3 on my Sony A7iii. More forgiving, beter dynamic range, nice skin tones. I'm using a corrective - leeming - lut. I did use slog3 ones and it is terrible for all-round-usage. Same for Cine4. Only in contoled situations, i.e. low dynamic range. The main effort must be on good exposure and white balance. Stick to 95% zebra's! Leave the upper 5% to color information.
can u tell me setting for HLG3
@@cr7-w1s5k Everything on default as it comes in PP10 and use HLG3. Only detail is -7. But you have to use a corrective lut like leeming. If you don’t thank you have to tweek in camera but it is not as accurate as with a corrective lut. If you still want it out of camera and no corrective lut than besides HLG3 and detail -7 also color phase -3.
@@filmmakerinbusiness6736 thanks bro
Excelent!!!! which lens did you use?
with hlg what is best bt 2020 or rec709
How do you invalidate the color to rec 709? do you use any lut? because if I invalidate 709 in final cut the image is dull and greenish and if I put in bt2020 the skin tones are very red
Try HLG2. It has the best dynamic range of the three HLG profile. HLG3 at night causes more noise. PP7 with the right LUT can look pretty cinematic.
hlg3 has more dynamic range yes hlg3 has more noise in the dark. you can improve that with adjusting black levels in the pp settings.
hlg1 for night shots & hlg2 for day, both at rec 709 of course!!!
Zemlak Ports
Abdiel Orchard
I’ve got an Ax700 nice video I’m gonna play with them now
Amazing work .. what song is that playing ine the background
Nova Mountain
Lehner Lock
Keep a good work!, that's was a lot of info
Were these in 60fps and then slowed down to 24 fps in post?
Guessing this is a song from artlist? What’s it called?
@@damiencooper okay cool, i really want to know what its called, im spending ages looking for it
Do your luts support Davinchi Resolve?
Emmie Vista
better HLG3 BT:2020 ! ! !
Are shoot in full hd for footage test comparision, and what frame rate?
Make video on sony zv1 which one is good for cine setting and picture profile
What zebra setting should keep in a7iii for hlg3 profile.?
HLG3 is my Love, Slogs are Shit!
I like the HLG3 on the a bit older Sony Cameras A 7 S2 & A7 R III much better unless you record via HDMI to a recording monitor in ProResRaw or Black Magic Raw. For the Apple ProRes Raw I have to say that I prefer the 7' Shogun Flame over the Ninja bc it has a much better HLG color range than the Ninja V. I would go so far to say that than you use the Flame you can hardly see an improvement from the S 2 to the S. There is just a slight color shift if you compare both, especially in Videos shot at night at high ISO levels. And even though Sony will not admit this, but then you buy instead of a G master lens a higher Grade Zeiss lens, especially the Otus line, than I actually prefer just the picture/video quality of the S 2 & R 3
So when it comes to cinema for film look what is the best option? Hlog or cine or slog?
Stehr Prairie
Funny that you should mention the reds. I also did notice that red is somewhat off and washed out. So how do you deal with it?
You have this preset call “70’s” I was wondering in future if you creating more luts for Sony it would be nice to include something like this it’s feels like old Fuji colors. It would be awesome if a néw version of your luts will include orange and teal vibes, old film look and so on.
That helped me a lot! I was thinking about changing to slog profiles to get more details in skys etc. But, as you mentioned, the slogs are not the best if you have to be quick. Thanks 💪🏻
HLG3 quality is no good. Fujifilm is much better.
camera you are talking about is probably xt4 which has 10bit, so it's really not comparable with sony a7iii which is working in 8bit.
@Monkeypixels you
convinced me to choose HLG3 over Cine4, but can you tell me how to expose footage for HLG3 right? +1 to +1.5 steps? False color? Thank you!
Everyone is saying HLG3 looks the best but I see noise in the blacks and shadows
63992 Shayne Wells
Love HLG3 but my Mac struggles in FCPX , cine4 is much easier.
Video muito bom, obrigado por compartilhar
Good to have you guys back!
sehr schöner Vergleich, danke dafür.
Findet dein Edit in einem rec709-Projekt statt? Überschreibst du dann den Farbraum? Das spackte bei mir des öfteren.
What frame rate did you shoot the slow mo? Looks awesome!!!!!
Helped me a lot... oks
Thanks for this test ! What do you think about HLG3 REC709 instead of BT2020? Also what is your detail level for HLG3 slowmotion?
Mathieu Psyché I use Rec709 for HLG3 and I think it’s the better choice, because I know my delivery is 709 and not a wider gamut. That only creates more problems than it’s worth at the moment.
@@alex.munteanapparently what you di is wrong, you lose information by not setting bt2020. In low light high iso Cine1 with Cinema or Pro and other custom settings give the best to avoid shadow noise and color noise. Look at Geoffrey Gonzales video on a7iii he made intensive tests.
Which lens have you used ?
nice video, do you use rec709 or bt2020?
do you use rec709 or bt2020?
What about Clog on the R Damien is that easier to work with.
skin tones its to red...
Picture Profile?
Max Manors
Is saw for the PP10 HL3 you were in BT2020 so not Rec709 ? Can you help me to understand please. Thank you
use bt2020, way better for grading
I bought a recorder so I had 10bit. It is a world of difference. My A7s2 is like a new camera. Not exactly like my bmpcc 6k, but for run-n- gun it's aces now.
Elvis Presley ?! The A7 Series doesn’t have 10bit. Neither with a recorder
My understanding is that A7s2 only outputs 8-bit via HDMI.
I use HLG3, but with Rec709 instead of BT2020. That might be the reason your colors were off. I agree that even with Rec709 selected it oversaturates the reds.
custom colors in settings
Ivan GRANID sure you can tweak the colors from there to a certain extent, but Rec709 and BT2020 have different colors to them and if you use BT2020 which is a larger gamut you have to convert it to Rec709 when you color the footage in your NLE, unless your timeline are output are Rec2020, of course.
Yes. Did you figure out a setting that fixes the reds?
CINE4 NEVER WAS GOOD, IT'S EITHER CINE2 OR HLG
Cine1 is better in high iso low light conditions. See Geoffrey Gonzales video which explain everything.
hlg looks much better
wow great video!!!!!
openin music please
Excellent quality? What are your export settings for fcpx? Do you use compressor??
Franco Pro Media hey, I just uploaded a video about my complete editing workflow including export settings!
@@damiencooper ok I'll watch it. Thanks
Also ich liebe HLG 3, aber in Final Cut hat man öfter mal nen bug und dann sind die Farben am Arsch..
Monkeypixels ja und dann passt das meistens auch. Wenn man die footage dann allerdings im multicam tool nutzt fängt sie an zu spinnen..
Ich musste neulich meine ganze footage rausrendern und neu importieren, damit es geklappt hat..
Nice!! What lens were you filming with?
Monkeypixels Thanks! 120fps?
@@damiencooper Film with zeiss 35 f1.4...Full frame or super 35 ? Thanks
You set hlg3 to rec 709?
Yes and little customize
Hey! Which camera did you use to shot this cinematic video?
A7III
@@damiencooper Wow, Great! And which lens pls? I just started Film making. Your work is an inspiration for me 🙏🏻
@@gauravprakash288 thank you. We used the 35mm 1.4 Sony lens
subscribed!
Danke fürs Video!
Super Video! 🙌🏻 bin eigentlich auch genau eurer Meinung. SLOG bei 8 bit finde ich auch nicht wirklich sinnvoll, speziell bei run & gun oder so... 🧗🏼♂️ Mein aktuelles Video, welches morgen Premiere hat, hab ich komplett in Cine4 gefilmt.
Werde aber wohl doch mit HLG weitermachen, speziell der Highlight Rolloff ist echt super find ich... 😊
Isom Corner
Eterna, provia, classic chrome and velvia. Just kidding.
iden carlo manalo classic chrome is my favortie. Oh wait wrong video
7:09 - I'm surprised that you haven't commented on the terrible banding in the bottom-right corner, that's unusable.
Nice Test!
Andre Dreßler true!
I was ready to change my picture profile to cine 4 but from watching your video made me like nahh, hlg3 is better so yeah I will stick it to it..nice video..
One of the best channels out there! When do you drop canon eosr vs sony
STUPID TO SHOW DIFFERENT VIDEOS TO SEE SLIGHT DIFFERENCE
Oral Key
Hlg3
I dont see the difference! hahaha
1:06 ummmm yeah
Mmmmmmm oh yeah 🤩