How Did Jack The Ripper Escape From The Murder Site In Buck's Row?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ม.ค. 2024
- In this video Steve Blomer joins Richard Jones to discuss the possible escape routes that Jack the Ripper may have taken from Buck's Row as he fled from the scene of the murder of Mary Nichols on August 31st 1888.
Using maps from the era, old photographs and modern video footage, the viewer is given an in depth insight into the layout of Buck's Row, and is able to ascertain where each possible route was located in relation to the murder site.
If you would like to order a copy of Steve's book "Inside Buck's Row" please email Steve at insidebucksrow@gmail.com.
I've never understood why Jack had to 'escape'. As soon as he's wiped his hands and got back onto Whitechapel Road he's not suspicious in the slightest.There were numerous people walking to work even at 4 am.
Well why was the body covered up halfway through the mutilation? Either he wasn’t interrupted therefore he’d have completed his work and not had to cover it or he was interrupted and covered the body up to hide his unfinished work and therefore would’ve been seen by somebody.
It was Lechmere, there is no other reasonable explanation.
True. Also anyone running would have drawn attention, all he had to do was walk briskly away.
Covered in blood?
I agree he could perhaps have blended in.
But it’s likely he would have been covered in blood that he couldn’t wipe off. He would have had a knife.
And if challenged, would he have had a reason for being in the area at that time if he wasn’t going to work or something?
Only 2 walking down that street at that time , Robert Paul and Charles lechmere.
Well done summary of the possible escape routes. I agree that if it wasn't Lechmere, the killer would have escaped around the school then south to Whitechapel Rd. However, because Nichols had been killed so recently, as Mr. Blomer also posits, there are two things that make me think it was Lechmere: 1. When Paul examined Nichols, and he knelt down and touched her, he didn't see any blood. He even pulled her skirt down and didn't see any blood. Within minutes, Neil encountered Nichols, and he stated blood was clearly oozing from her neck wound. This indicates a very recent attack, therefore, 2. If it wasn't Lechmere, he certainly would have disturbed the killer, but Lechmere didn't see OR HEAR anyone ahead of him. Nor was anyone observed by anyone in the area, including by the beat cops.
The problem with any kind of attempt to pin Lechmere to the case via analysis of the blood overlooks a critical thing - she was a chronic alcoholic. That can have an effect on blood clotting, and higher volumes of blood take longer to dry. Additionally, Lechmere remained in the area but no further crimes of the signature of the Ripper appear to have occurred. A killer like the Ripper simply doesn't stop on his own. Something - death, incarceration, debilitating injury - stops him or he leaves.
Don't forget how dark it was, and Cross/Letchmere and Paul didnt have a lantern. The constables did.
@@drbigmdftnu Yes, exactly right. People seem to forget that these bodies were not found in ideal lighting circumstances which can make even seemingly obvious details get missed.
@@JMurdochNZmy money is on Kosminski....
Not only that, the killer was interrupted and tried to hide the severity of the situation. Absolutely zero reason to do that if he could escape without being seen or heard.
I'm a big believer in the banality of evil, and agree that suggestions of him leaping down to train tracks are unlikely. I think people have imbued Jack with superhuman capabilities, as time has passed. When in all likelihood, he was just another person walking by.
I could have listened to you two talk for at least another hour. TYSM.
Another brilliant video and discussion. Mr Blomer obviously has a wealth of knowledge about this particular murder and the scene. Having spent over 30 years as an attorney in criminal courts, I can say without fear of contradiction that the both of you would have made incredible detectives. Please keep 'em coming! Cheers
Sticks his blood-stained hands in his pockets and that takes care of that. Whoever he was, his subsequent actions tell us that not only did he know Whitechapel like the proverbial back of his hand but he also was quite the risk-taker. I've always wondered whether that risk extended to other parts of his life and that he was either jailed for an unconnected offence or met with an "accident". Either way, it would be enough to put him out of action after the Mary Kelly slaughter.
yes; by all indication then Dr Franis Tumbelty is Jack the Ripper.
Murdered by his wife.
I've always wanted to conduct an experiment to see if people really can identify the backs of their hands. I'm sure the percentage would be high, but I'd imagine not as high as you'd believe.
Great video, as most are on this channel. Although the escape routes are plausible if Lechmere wasn't Jack The Ripper, another person being the killer isn't plausible in my opinion. Robert Paul thought he felt her breathing and although dark, no blood was noticeable, suggesting she was recently killed. Robert Paul arrived in Bucks Row around the time the Doctor predicted the time of death, Lechmere was already there, nobody knows how long he was there for and Lechmere himself said he saw or heard nobody else. Lechmere asked Robert Paul to look at the body yet refused to help prop her up when Paul suggested it. Finally, if Lechmere disturbed the killer, why would the killer bother hiding the throat and stomach/abdominal wounds if escaping was his plan? The wounds being hidden, having only Lechmere's account of what time he got there, Lechmere refusing to help move the body and Lechmere not noticing anybody else all point to him being Jack The Ripper.
The carmen didn't see any blood or that her throat was cut, not because it wasn't there but because it was too dark to see. PC Neil who arrived only a few minutes later but had a lamp had no trouble whatsoever seeing the blood and the cut throat.
Dr. Llewelynn was at the scene at about 4:00 and estimated Polly Nichols could not haven been dead for more than half an hour. That means she could have been killed at 3:30 at the earliest. How is that "around the same time Robert Paul arrived in Bucks Row ?"
And where did you get the idea her cut throat was covered ? It wasn't. Her abdoninal wounds were not visible because her clothing was not cut and covered her body. Dr. LLewelyn nor any of the PCs noticed her grueseome abdonimal wounds even when they put her on the ambulance. Only when she was stripped of her clothes in the morgue the horror of what was done to her became fully clear. But it was very clear from the moment PC Neill found her with his lamp that her throat had been cut so deep she was all but decapitated.
@LucasLucas-ne4xs
The wounds were absolutely hidden in an attempt to make it look less severe. None of the other victims wounds were hidden and "coincidentally" nobody was seen lingering and acting suspiciously right next to the body them at or very near the time of death.
@@lyndoncmp5751 The cut throat was not hidden, the blood was not hidden, her clothing was in disarray and her dress was pulled up to her hips. (Paul even tried to pull it down a bit to make here more decent).
It was as dark for the killer as it was for the carmen unless he had a lamp (highly doubtful).
Her abdominal wounds were not visible because her clothing was not cut and she had not been eviscerated (that MO evolved later).
"Lingering and acting suspiciously" ? Cross/Lechmere found 'something' in the early morning lying the deserted Bucks Row on his way to work. He stopped and moved a bit closer and It still took him a few seconds to realize it was the body of a woman lying in the dark. Luckily he then heard foorsteps approaching, so he waited for the arrival of the newcomer (i.e. Robert Paul) and even had to draw his attention to the woman so he could help make a decision on what to do next.
I don't see how his behaviour is suspicious or would be different from any other man who found someone lying motionless in a dark and deserted street and felt something needed to be done.
@LucasLucas-ne4xs
Robert Paul certainly thought there was something suspicious about the man up ahead (Lechmere). Lechmere never called or even waved him over for help. Lechmere sized Paul up first. Lechmere was most definitely lingering and acting suspiciously. There is no doubt about this.
Lechmere also lied about how long he was by Polly's body. There is simply NO WAY he'd merely crossed over to the body to see it wasn't a tarpaulin. I've timed it myself on the exact spot. Takes no more than five seconds to do that. If that was ALL Lechmere did, then there is not a chance Robert Paul wouldn't have seen or heard him walking ahead of him along Bucks Row. He didn't. He only noticed Lechmere when Lechmere was lingering near "where the woman was".
Lechmere's behavior was odd. Doubly odd when he then lessened the severity of the situation to PC Mizen and then went down Hanbury Street with Paul, considering he was behind time and the quickest route to Pickfords was along Old Montague Street.
There is absolutely zero reason an innocent Lechmere should have been going down Hanbury Street. It wasn't to get pally with Paul. He didn't even introduce himself to him. No explanation for a late and innocent Lechmere to go the Hanbury Street route. There just isn't.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Paul was suspicious or wary of any man he would encounter in that part of Bucks Row. Not because there was something sinister about Cross/Lechmere himslef but because Paul knew this was a rough neighbourhood and often muggings occured there. He never adressed Cross either, he wanted to avoid him, but then Cross tapped him on the shoulder and pointed his attention to the woman who was lying there that Paul hadn't even noticed yet, thus explaining to him why he was waiting for him in the middle of the street. Paul never suggested he thought Cross/Lechmere himself was suspicious.
Both carmen explained at the inquest they didn't know if the woman was dead or alive and certainly they were unawere she had been murdered. That was the message they gave to Mizen.
Neither of the 2 carmen had seen or heard the other man before Cross/Lechmere found the body, that is very true. So either your 5 seconds was all it took to bring them into eachothers line of sound, or it was a bit more than 5 seconds (20 seconds would be largely enough to make it impossible to see or hear eachother) or they weren't paying that much attention.
Remember, Cross/Lechmere was now standing still (making no noise himself) and had just found a body putting his senses on high alert. Only now he could hear Pauls footsteps coming closer. Evidently Paul could not hear Cross/Lechmere and only became aware of him when he saw him standing in the middle of the street, waiting for him on a 'dangerous' spot.
Why an innocent Cross/Lechmere could not have accompanied a fellow carman with whom he just had found and examined a body in the early morning and informed the police about a little bit longer when he was going in the general direction of where he had to go himself is beyond me. Do you always introduce yourself to anyone you have a little chat with on the street, in the pub, on the train ?
Virtual reality would be a very evocative way of setting the scene. I wouldn't be suprised if someone has already done it.
The Ripper must have had amazing night-vision to do all he did in such darkness. Excellent video.
Night vison binoculars. how can you do all this in almost total darkness.
its the monicle and top hat combo it has nightvision
It seems a lot of effort to dismiss the obvious that Lechmere was the killer nearly caught in the act.
At minimum, you have him saying a woman who says she could hear whispering and a gasp... yet Lechmere supposedly got there only a minute or two after the murder, but never heard anyone walking on cobblestones.
And nevermind that the time it would take him to walk there meant he was there earlier than when she died, yet was still there when Paul arrived.
Oh, and then not going to the inquest until Paul testified there was someone there, which would had led to investigation, and gave a wrong name despite using his real name on many records.
Why do these guys argue so greatly when common sense says Lechmere had to be the killer? Is it pride, or trying to defend incompetent policing.
Exactly. Blomer is anti lechmere and will try his best to paint him as completely innocent even though he even admits himself that lechmere could have been there 90 seconds after the murder. Laughable
It's because Lechmere was under the noses of the long term ripperologists all this time and they didnt have a clue. It's sour grapes because they didnt discover him.
They'd rather people believe utter codswallop such as Tumblety or Kosminski etc.
if he were the killer, wouldn't it have made sense for him to say he DID hear footsteps running off as he approached?
@@AC-hw5rsI bet we can agree the Whitechapel murderer was a psychopath or sociopath. These days it’s called ASPD. All psychopaths and sociopaths are narcissists. They think they are smarter than everyone and use people for manipulation. If you accept this, and apply it to Lechmere’s behavior when he meet Paul, it makes sense.
Look, if you want to believe Lechmere really was Jack the Ripper, you have to implicate him in the other murders...all of which can't be done. He was a working man. These crimes occurred throughout the night and early hours. Lechmere couldn't possibly have been responsible.
It's been timed. It takes seven minutes to get from Letchmere's house to Bucks Row murder site. That puts him there at 03.37 am. Robert Paul had various clocks to inform him it was 03.45 am when he entered Bucks Row. We're told there was a light near the school and the road opens out there into a large square. Letchmere never saw anyone. Paul only saw Letchmere. The corner of the square would be illuminated. Robert Paul said that crime was rife in the area. The doors to the warehouses etc would have been locked. Tabram had just been murdered three weeks earlier not far to the west. I find it astounding the above details are ignored and a man found with a recently murdered woman is ignored in favour of a far fetched escape route. Why is a professional police investigator being ignored? Letchmere has to be the prime suspect.
I can only suggest you listen to a podcast on Rippercast regarding timings, the issues with syncronizied timings or not and clock visibility from the 2022 East End Conference.
Far fetched escape route? I visited bucks row/durward st in 1999,before the major redevelopment of the last few years to Whitechapel station. I timed myself walking from the murder site to the end of the board school where you turn left back towards whitechapel road. Took me no more than twenty seconds,what is far fetched about that?
Yes, a man actually seen by someone else lingering alone and acting suspiciously right next to the body of one of the victims at or near the time of death and with nobody else in sight or sound and then lied about a number of things is as good a suspect as anyone is going to get. More credible than a foreign nutjob like Kosminski.
JTR was likely more akin to a Dennis Rader or Rex Heuermann type local family man than an outwardly abnormal nut needing placement in an asylum.
The police were clueless and dropped the ball, just as they did a century later in Yorkshire.
At the time of the murder the arches at the base of the Board School were accessibly. They were only bricked up years later. So, no far fetched escape route necessarily. He only needed to walk a few yards up the street and duck out of sight and away.
He knew the area very well. Also, I've just read a comment mentioning Flower and Dean Street. We hear a lot about a Common lodging house in this street and many of the women stayed there at one time or another. My question would be, was he familiar with these women from that residence and if so did he stay there as well ?
I actually started secondary school on Friday, 31st August 1988! If I had known the significance of that date at the young age of 12, I'd have had a minute silence for the victims. It wasn't until I had actually watched the Jack the Ripper TV series with Michael Caine and the late, very underrated Lewis Collins that I took an interest in the case. Of course, that show was deeply inaccurate, and yet, what happened on the dank streets of Whitechapel were far more gruesome and horrifying than anything committed to the big or small screen under the title of Jack the Ripper!
August 31. A special day for me
I remember that mini series with Michael Caine and the late,great Lewis Collins in 1988,marking 100 yrs of the mystery of JTR..I was 17 at the time..
Excellent video, Richard and Steve. Keep 'em coming!
I keep waiting for the door in the guy's background to open
Yes, the thought of him leaping down onto the railway line is all a bit Spring-Heeled Jack!
Thanks, interesting video.
I use to work a morning shift few years back which was a walking distance to work.. I can tell you this, I wanted to get out cold as quickly as possible to warm my hands and feet, I also saw the same people everyday on my route. If I was Charles lechmere knowing there was shit load of policeman on my route i see everyday, I wouldn't be committing murder lol sorry Charles lechmere fans I can't see it happening
If you knew there was shit loads of police walking about you’d know the timing of their beats so thanks for your input but I’ll stick to Lechmere as prime suspect
Also Lechmere would continue to walk the same way to work for months or years afterward, and was known to the police because of the inquest. Yet they never suspected him.
Except the police at that time had to stick to a strict timetable of patrols , if they didn’t they were punished, so if your Charles lechmere and you live only a few blocks away and walk this route to work everyday you get to know the police timetables and there were only 2 police in that vicinity at the time doing their rounds , not shitloads.
@@jasoreed correct
The victims picked the locations. They need to be discreet
Another great video Mr Jones. You invariably raise the bar on what shows similar to this should be, but very few are, and you do it with class and taste, contrary to how many people making videos do things. Best wishes, as always, from "Middle America."
I am totally new to the Jack the Ripper cases but I don't understand why so many people think Charles Lechmere was the killer. Other than him being at the scene around one of the murder and the inconsistency of his statement (including using a different last name), is there any other good points that suggest he was the killer?
To me, Lechmere was no more than a witness like Israel Schwartz or John Hutchinson. Schwartz also was around a murder scene around the time a murder took place. Schwartz's statement was also inconsistent with what we think is most likely (1 killer instead of 2). So to those who think Lechmere was Jack the Ripper, why not Schwartz?
Again, I am new and if I missed something important please correct me. Cheers.
There's no evidence for Lechmere. Assumptions and circumstances from people who have zero feel of the situation on the ground.
@@ohmy4275
Believe what you like. There is a great deal of circumstantial evidence pointing to Lechmere. Not assumptions at all. Edward Stow lays it out in black and white. He makes no assumptions. No point in going down the rabbit hole with you - we'd be here all week.
He should should have been identified as a suspect much sooner than he was, but now some people are taking it too far the other way.
You've missed the salient point. Lechmere wasn't just at a crime scene. He was actually witnessed by someone else lingering alone and acting suspiciously right next to the body of one of the victims at or near the time of death and with nobody else in sight or sound. That does not apply to any other suspect. He also lied about his name, lied to PC Mizen and he lied about the amount of time he was at Polly Nichols body.
Not only this, he even walked right past 29 Hanbury Street that morning, where Annie Chapman was killed a week later and at a similar time.
His wife and daughter lived just around the corner from where Liz Stride was killed and where he himself recently lived, on a night where he could well have been visiting them or drinking in his old pub haunts, seeing as he had the next day off.
Catherine Eddowes was likely picked up around St Botolph church, a known prostitute pick up spot. Lechmere would know this as it was on a direct route from where Lechmere used to live and would have walked to his Pickfords workplace. The torn apron from Eddowes was found on a direct route back to where Lechmere lived.
Kelly was killed on the morning of a public holiday. Lechmere wouldn't have had to work that day. He could have been out drinking the night before and into the early hours, picking up Kelly afterwards.
Even Martha Tabram was killed just off the direct route from Lechmere's home to Pickfords via Old Montague Street and at a doable time for Lechmere on his way to work.
There are a LOT of connections to Lechmere. If they are all mere coincidences, well that's a lot of 'coincidences'.
Lechmere even fits the profile of people like Dennis Rader, Rex Heuermann etc. Outwardly normal and respectable local family man blah blah.
@Jack-hy1zq
Indeed. Anyone being seen by another person actually standing alone, lingering and acting suspiciously right next to the body of one of the victims at or near the time of death and with nobody else in sight or sound is definitely evidence, and very suspicious. As are Lechmere's multiple lies.
When you see the rabbit warren that was Whitechapel and still is in places today, is it really any wonder JtR managed to escape from the murder sites? Great video as always.
I don't think lechmere was the ripper ,if I found a body in those circumstances, I would be terrified in case of incrimination, hence that's why he was off and did not hang around. Jack arranged to meet her there ,but I think he was disturbed by lechmere walking , in those types of narrow roads deathly quiet leather souls echo , and Jack was off down the ally to white chapel rd .a slaughter house was yards away he may of had to lock up so all alone out murder and off
exactly
Good to see Steve back again, his wealth of JTR knowledge and the area is a joy to behold. I'd love to see willing experts go head-to-head in a trivia contest like Mastermind. (Round 1) Specialised subject of their choosing. (Round 2) General knowledge about the 1880's. Who will take home the coveted prize of JTRT's Mastermind 🤔
Certainly, the streets back then were poorly lit, narrow and dark. So easy to go undetected.
Footsteps echoed though. Nobody wore sports trainers like today.
@@lyndoncmp5751Nobody heard Jack though. In fact Nobody heard Lechmere OR Paul either
No body heard Lechmere because Lechmere was already in place.
@@susanclapp1721 Lech already in place?..a sort of "Beam me down Scotty" event
The thing is many other sittings of potentially Jack talking to his next victim does not match lechmere at all
And none of them match each other.
I've often wondered how dark it was in Bucks Row. 31st August is late summer with the sun still rising early enough for it to be fully light. We tend to think of it being pitch black at the time of the murder, but it was clearly light enough for Lechmere to recognise a tarp from across the street.
Another fantastic video. Insightful as always. I didn't know there were so many possiblities for escape 👍👍
I personally don't think enough emphasis is put on the lighting at the scene of these crimes. I don't think people realise just how dark these streets really were. Thanks to my useless council my street has it's street lights turned off from Midnight until 6am. I assume it is to save money as they do not do much else. I woke one morning around 3am and couldn't get back to sleep so I watched one of your amazing videos. It made me think about this, and as such I looked out the window to see how dark my street really was.
It was terrifying how dark it was!
Literally it made me think, not so much why they didn't catch him? But more what chance did they have OF catching him? It also made me think that he must have had some knowledge or experience of surgery or at the very least cutting meat. I mean if he can do even crude cuts the way he did in the pitch black than he must have at least some experience.
Awesome video as always.
I live in an old cottage and our street is quite narrow at this point with the various buildings dating back over 200 years or more. Sometimes people are a little noisy at night coming from the large hotel opposite. Even with the single street light outside I'd have trouble making out what's happening, if indeed I got out of bed......
Wow what a stingy council!
Thanks Richard and Steve another great post another headache 😂👍
I found this video fascinating! I really enjoyed it!
Thanks for the great post!
I have more that a little bit of an obsession with this case. Not saying I agree with the theories here. But it's well researched and well argued by people who are serious about the case. It gives me so much to think about. Thank you.
Totally absorbing, thank you for this.
8:35, regarding the common sights around nearby slaughterhouses... an interesting parallel to the most likely escape of the hatchet-wielding murderer of Andrew and Abby Borden in Fall River, Massachusetts in 1892. The visiting uncle made his fortune in livestock and butchering, and had close friends in the butchering and rendering businesses that were mere blocks away from the Borden's home. It was common to see bloody work clothing and tools of the trade simply walking down the street, and such a person would gather no notice if they were not spotted directly at the site. However, the Borden murderer walked away in broad daylight onto a busy street, without need of the dark to hide the crime. Thank you for this great episode, and the ensuing train of thought!
I thought Lizzy Borden did it?
Walked away? Lizzie lived there :-)
@@rob5944 She did. Lizzie complained about not living on the Hill but she was still in a house on a nice middle class street, where everybody had a maid and a slaughterhouse worker covered in blood would stand out like a sore thumb.
Where exactly was the slaughterhouse?
I did not mean for my comment to hijack the topic. But for clarity, Lizzie was acquitted. I have studied the court transcripts, it was fascinating reading. A conspiracy among Lizzie at least 2 other people answers the perpetual questions. Lizzie had absolutely no blood on her person or belongings, both of which were carefully examined at the scene by police. The murderer could not have escaped the copious festooning. It is my belief that it was a true shock to her and the conspirators that she was arrested without a spot of blood to condemn her.
Knocky-up! I was looking it up right when you explained it Richard.
Another great video 👍 I find The Jack the Ripper and that time of history fasenating .
Fantastic will watch tonight, thank you Richard 👍
Fascinating stuff! Much food for thought :)
Lechmere Was the Ripper.
By far the most likely ‘candidate’. It would be interesting to investigate his personal circumstances around the time the killings stopped - is there a reason why he ceased? I know he lived to a good old age.
Oh I didn’t realize the interviewee has a stutter, I think that’s kind of a cool thing to have as a ripper-ologist.
The last person going into Mary Kelly's room with Mary was not lechmere
True but other authors like Philip Sugden indicated it was possible in the timeframe for her to have received other clients
Great video, are they any on thr other murder locations?
The first "canonical victim" yes ... ive always thought there were previous killings though?
Quite possibly, however the Canonical Five are the only 'known' killings of his so to speak. Personally my opinion is that Martha Tabram was a JTR victim.
Only Martha Tabram can seriously be considered as an early Ripper victim although there are some differences with style but those could be explained.
@LaurenRose94 me too
@wattyler2994
And Tabram was killed just off the most direct route to Pickfords for Lechmere (Old Montague Street) and at a doable time.
Very Good Lesson. Thank You Sir So Much Cheers 🥂 🇬🇧🏴
They also used to have local women called knockers uppers , and fire dried peas from a pea shooter at the person's bedroom window
Love your work. ❤
Excellent video! Question: how wide was bucks row at the murder site?
I think both Paul and lechmere knew they were in a very very dangerously compromising situation ,and knew this could easily be blamed on either of them ,
It should be blamed on Lechmere. Why do you not think Lechmere was responsible? All the evidence points towards him. He was found, according to an interview Paul gave in a newspaper, standing over the body when Robert Paul approached him.
We could then argue that Lechmere deliberately went with Paul along Hanbury Street that morning to see where he was going in case he felt the need to incriminate him later. Annie Chapman was killed at 29 Hanbury Street a week later, very close to Paul's work.
Great episode Steve Blomer was terriific Very enlightening
Forever a mystery, forever fascinating
This was an excellent video. Unfortunately, as is usually the case these days, it brought out the Lechmere fanatics. They just can't fathom that Lechmere was a working man and that the crimes occurred throughout the night and early hours. He simply wouldn't have been able to do them. Jack must have been wandering about all hours, often without success. Lechmere had a job. Jack clearly enjoyed a lot of free time. You can't get through to them.
The truth is most lechmere fanatics are not the types that have studied ,read about this case for years,gone through countless newspaper articles,post mortems reports,inquest reports etc. They're joe public who have watched one documentary and read one book about the most famous killer in british history,based on a suspect theory that has been blown out of all proportion with zero solid evidence.
And if anyone asks me "Well who do you think did it?" the answer is "I don't know" Because there is not one shred of damning evidence to pin the blame on anybody,and 130 odd years later sadly we will probably never know.
Huh? Nichols and Chapman (plus Tabram) were killed along his routes to work at a a doable time for him to have carried them out.
Stride, Eddowes and Kelly were killed at night/early hours when he had the following day off.
He's in the running and cannot be ruled out of ANY of the murders.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Good suspect... though with such regular habits he could have been framed
Always fascinating
Having visited there recently, and also having heard the theory regarding Charles Cross/Lechmere being JTR, I'm quite convinced that Lechmere getting disturbed by the other carman then pretending to have found the body is a much more plausible explanation than the idea that JTR somehow got away without being spotted by Lechmere. I can't see how, realistically.
I mean, if the latter was true, then we'd be talking about someone with near enough superhuman speed or the ability to vanish like a magician and remember, that's after carrying out such a horrific act. That would be a tall order, even in a dimly lit street, and surely there would have been screams that Lechmere would have heard as he was coming along if he wasn't JTR??
That said, I haven't totally given up on looking at other possibilities, including what I guess is the great unthinkable, namely, that JTR was actually a police constable who patrolled this area regularly and would have known it like the back of his hand, and also would have known when other constables would be patrolling.
If Lechmere and all the others ever do somehow get ruled out, then it's time to look at the said unthinkable. And who would ever suspect a police officer? Those women all would have felt safe and by all accounts, as the last victim was slaughtered inside a place, it's perfectly conceivable she must have let them in and with an uknown killer on the loose that would seem rather reckless, unless it was a police officer. Either Lechmere or a police officer must have been JTR as far as I'm concerned but more likely of the two is Lechmere.
Although Randy Williams presentation I thought makes so much sense , i have often thought it was more than one person
The Lechmere theory has gained traction , so it is tough to get away with this type of discussion these days - or any other detail on the Nicholls murder- without delving deeply into that theory , because it nullifies any notion of an 'escape route'.
ZERO evidence against Lechmere
@jimlewis2395
So being seen by someone else lingering alone and acting suspiciously right next to the body of one of the victims at or near the time of death and with nobody else in sight or sound and then repeatedly lying is "zero evidence"? 🤔
If it wasn’t Lechmere, I can’t help wondering what PC Neil was up to. Had he not carried out his patrol? Where was Neil when subsequent murders were carried out?
What do you mean where was Neil?
Neil was on his approximately 30 minute beat. He had last been there at roughly 3.15.
His beat covered Bucks Row, Brady St, Winthrop street. Whitechapel Road, woods buildings. Court St, Thomas Street ( southern arm) Bakers Row , whites Row ,and then probably the upper arm of Thomas and Queen Anne St ( the exactly beat is debated) before arriving back at Brown's Yard.
I haven't read the book so far, but what always makes me question Lechmere as JTR is that I think police would have found out. I mean he was the only obvious link to any murder. So one would investigate him thoroughly, especially if one has no other clue.
Why do you say that? They were still making grave errors a century later in Yorkshire. Peter Sutcliffe was actually interviewed over half a dozen times and they didn't think he was their man.
In the 19th century they were even more ignorant about serial killers.
A foreign nutjob was a more 'logical' suspect. Not an outwardly normal, even respectable, local family man.
In the modern photo of the station entrance where she was found it looks like the lower part of the side wall is very old brickwork of the end cottages
No it's more likely to be part of the wall of the railway cutting. But remember New Cottage was demolished after the war and a garage built there.
Great interview , I think Richard is right saying Woods budlings,
So....at 3:30-ish, Harriet Lilley heard some noises, whispers, gasping and "could be she looks out of her window".
Why would she do that?
We know this street was a regular route for people going to work at exactly that time in the morning so what would be unusual about people being on her street? She didn't even know one of the reported voices was female or it would be in the report.
Harriet Lilly opening the window because of this complete non-event would be the modern day equivalent of you or I going to investigate a car passing during the morning commute, or being unsettled by a dogs bark when we know the neighbours own a dog.
Sorry if I'm nit-picking, it just doesn't make sense to me.
She likely made it up days later to get her name in the papers. If she was awake like she then why on earth didn't she go outside during all the police curfuffle and tell them what she heard?
She also said NOTHING about hearing two men (Lechmere and Cross) walking and talking.
The police didn't consider her of any importance.
Do you never look at of your window if you hear something at night?
Many do.
@stevenblomer7738
Yes true. But I'd then go outside if the police turned up and there was a great commotion that morning. I'd let them know what I heard. She didn't. Instead she told a newspaperman a week later.
Bit odd she heard a woman's "faint gasps" but then didn't hear Lechmere and Paul actually talking to each other a short while later.
@@stevenblomer7738 Not when it's completely normal, no.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Although the street has changed so much, I still find it is still fairly dark. Getting night shots, I had to get my phone out to look at the settings on my camera. It still has an eeriness to it.
Nobody would be at all suspicious as it was the first murder ,or the second murder only the third onwards
I think Lechmere knew the police beat timing well, most likely met Polly on Whitechapel road, they waited somewhere until the PC passed then went to Bucks Row, Lechmere killed her, heard Paul approaching, tidied himself and her up and stood there making sure she was dead and acting like he found her. The hidden wounds and him refusing to move her, point to his guilt.
I'd like Mr Blomer to explain his theory regarding the killer wasting getaway time by hiding the throat and stomach/abdominal wounds.
Exactly. The only reason to hide wounds would be to make the situation look less severe. No need to do that whatsoever, if nobody has seen you and you can escape before anyone has seen you.
It only makes sense if you are going to stay and bluff it out.
@@lyndoncmp5751the killer could have done the same to Cathy Eddowes in Mitre Square where the Police were patrolling close to the scene of the crime and could easily have been caught. However he didn't cover up the victim. So the cover up theory makes no sense.
I think it a wholly reasonable proposition that the killer was familiar with local police beats. A random selection of victims has never convinced me as the risk of discovery was just too great.
@wattyler2994
Of course it makes sense to cover up the severity if he stayed to bluff it out when he noticed Paul coming.
In Mitre square he wasn't interrupted and was already off and on his way before anyone saw him by the body. Nobody saw anyone by the body, as was the case with Nichols.
@@lyndoncmp5751 "nobody saw (the killer) near body in Mitre Square. Perhaps not, the timings and the darkness of that corner of the square could have meant the killer was still there there when the beat PC did his cursory look at Mitre Square from Church passage. What is clear is that there was nobody by the body by the time the next PC entered the Square. As to Lechmere at Bucks row clearly someone did some covering of the body, the question I was it Letchmere or the Ripper. Taking a cue from the later murders this was not the killers "style" Could it have been Letchmere? Quite possibly even though I don't think he killed her. Why? I think he didn't want to seen by Paul as the killer, hence the reluctance to help Paul with the body. I know Christer thinks the timings would be less likely to provide for another earlier killer but from where Polly lay to taking a quick exit left at the board school was a very short journey. So yes Letchmere looks very suspicious and acted in an odd way in hindsight but it's explainable.
Interesting speculations!
Also not far from murder scene was the brewery which I know from personal experience has catacombs underneath that spreads all under this area , for sure under the brewery and also ran under the London Hospital . Maybe there was access from railway line...?
The Whitechapel Murders whodunnit mystery is a fascinating subject and although i think Lechmere was JTR, i still look for good arguments that are actually against him being the killer to either dispel Lechmere completely or cement the case against him.
aaron kosminski,lived in that area,was a customer of these ladies,was identified by an eye witness,who was also Jewish........DNA match for him recently.confined after he last murder.case closed??????????
Very interesting, thanks. Many escape routes...no need for sewers...
Fascinating
He simply talked his way out of it. Lechmere was devious indeed.
Maybe he had some rocket pants and did a spring heel over the warehouse roof
I was hoping Steve would be a part of this question.
Constable Mizen is a relative of my great aunt Alma Mizen
Any family folklore that has been passed down the generations that could enlighten us?
Thats a easy one- he used his umbrella - english folks can fly like that.
Gerald Thomas' 'Carry On Cowboy' (1965) features a scene where a gunfighter facilitates a sewer to gain advantage over his ground level adversaries. Maybe this is where your sewer theory comes from, Richard.
It boggles my mind that people think of things like he went into the sewers. The best way to get into somewhere you're not supposed to be is to act like you own the place, and the best way to not be suspected of murdering prostitutes in east London in 1888 is to act normal before and after the murders. Wipe off your hands, or put on gloves, or if you were wearing gloves (not as protection from leaving fingerprints, but as protection from blood), take off your gloves...sheath your knife and stick it in a pocket or tuck it in your pants, and simply walk away. All he had to do was look normal and pass a cursory inspection because no one knew anyone had been murdered and in a time before telephones, it was impossible for the news to jump ahead of him to wherever he was going. In an area where butchers are about, it's even easier to blend in with a bit of blood on you.
Two murders one night, “and all I gotta do is act naturally”.
Thank you both for an excellent walk through of the possible escape routes.
Just one question: the wall to the right of the murder scene is approximately 180-190cm. It seems quite possible to climb over the wall, particularly if you have something to step on, like a plank leaning against the wall or a loose brick for instance.
As far as I can see there was a coal depot on the other side of the wall, which in turn boarded to Brady Street Jewish Cemetery and North Street.
Couldn’t that have been a possible scape route as well?
The wall to the right is directly over the railway yard.
@@stevenblomer7738I see. Thank you very much for the quick response Mr. Blomer.
Just makes me think what if someone enters Bucks Row from the board school. It didn't happen but surely the killer is running a massive being only 50 yards from that side.
All killers take massive risks when they murder somebody.
Thanks for the laugh. KNOCKING UP 😅😅😅
" you can't pinpoint when the attack happened" Professor Ingemar Thiblin disagrees. Based on the available evidence he suggested the maximum amount of time for Polly Nichols to stop bleeding from her neck wounds is about 10-15 minutes. Which makes "Lechmere's "I usually leave at 3.20am for work but that day I left at 3.30am (and was in hurry)" at the inquest kinda important. As well as way JTR was not only "reserved" upon inflicting damage to Polly (by his standards) but also "shy" (covering the abdominal wounds). And I am only 5 minutes into the video.
I would respectfully suggest you look at other medical opinion, rather than just one.
It's all in Inside Bucks Row, medical papers, references and comments.
Lechmere NEVER said I usually leave home at 3.20.
Two papers apparently by mistake said he left home at 3.20, all the others said about 3.30.
@@stevenblomer7738 Thank you for your comment. If you believe you have a citation which is relevant regarding statements made by Ingemar Thiblin (book Cutting Point) and Jason Payne-James ( documentary "Missing Evidence" + book), feel free to share it.
@@stevenblomer7738 "Lechmere NEVER said I usually leave home at 3.20." Not in the surviving records, true. The important thing is he claimed he was late and that he left at 3.30, which made a huge gap for when Robert Paul entered Buck's Row and when Lechmere should be in the Buck's Row. So huge that if you add that time to the time PC Mizen said Polly was still bleeding, there is theoretically , according to professor Ingemar Thiblin, no room for another murderer. People usually are aware of time when they are late for the job (because obviously they don't want to be late) and the inquest context just adds to the importance in regards to that the number 3.30 should be taken seriously as a reference point. Two papers indeed mistakenly claim that he left at 3.20, but that doesn't mean 3.20 was not mentioned at the inquest by Lechmere, just that we are lacking context.
Have you ever discussed where the Whitechapel murderer may have lived? I read a while ago there was statistical analysis done that placed him on Flower and Dean Street. I'd be interested how that was determined. I've never found much about what that research entailed.
22 Doveton Street?
@@lyndoncmp5751Snitch!
Charles Lechmere lived on 22 Doveton Street just below the Great Eastern Main Line. He worked at the Broad Street depot and therefore would have passed the murder sites on his commute to work. It is quite clearly him.
That's based on murder locations and other aspects of the case such as the Goulston Street Graffito. But the idea isn't that he necessarily lived on Flower & Dean Street, but that Flower & Dean Street is in the middle of the area where he most likely lived.
Always great to hear from Blomer. The most level headed one and doesn't use personal attacks like the other two fellas who obsess over Lechmere.
You do though. You literally called somebody "a typical Lechmere fanatic" in another thread.
Be less angry.
Which two? Certainly not Ed Stowe
@lyndoncmp5751 Lech is one of (if not) the best suspect for me, still doesn’t mean he did it though as many suspects are pretty terrible. Regardless, Ed Stow does come across as very arrogant and has the charisma of a wooden plank.
Did Bakers Row actually have bakeries on it back then?
It was named after a man named John Baker, who built houses there in the late 17th century.
Very interesting. This guy knows his stuff.
something to consider.....sound...... yes it was dark, but others have mentioned the police could hear each other walking a 100 yards away. Some one should make a map with an overlay of the people walking the routs we know they walked....it would help set up timing. Most people that lived in the high crime area probably went on high alert when they heard footsteps in the distance. You would think we would have had reports of I heard this or I heard that if there was a near miss in catching the murder. Anyway.....the old story that was told (no idea if it is true or not) is that rubber soled sneakers were invented to combat JTR. The police wanted to be able to move around in silence so they would be les easy to avoid as they were on patrol. Prior to sneakers, you got wood soled shoes clapping the stone pavement as people walked around.
Anyone know how to get a copy of Steve's book " Inside Buck's Row" ?
I don't have a copy. But I imagine if you contact Steve directly. That's what I'm going to do. Because this has made me fascinated with the subject.
In the 1967 picture it looks as if Browns yard has been redeveloped quite significantly ?...
Yes that is correct. What you see is actually a garage built on the site of the end cottage which I think was demolished as a result of bomb damage in WW2. The row of cottages you see were demolished in the early 1970s (I think there are or were photos of the half demolished terrace or the cleared site on the JTR website). Durward Street as it had become then was a derelict waste ground for many years before new housing was built on the site sometime after 1988. The old Ripper era buildings that remained were the old School house (later saved and refurbished) and Essex Wharf ( which I saw for the last time around 1987/88). Essex Wharf was in dilapidated state and was basically a shell, perhaps it could have been saved but developers decided otherwise. At the time it was also still possible to walk the length of Winthrop Street where on the right hand side ( if entering it from the old Schoolhouse side) you could still see remnants of the yards that used to be there. One has however to be careful in interpreting that bit since the tube lines had been extended since 1888 and taken away most of the area that existed behind the Whitechapel Highstreet frontage around 1909. Sadly only a stump of Winthrop Street now exists.
Great video richard👍 so,the killer being interupted had two choices...wait for the man that entered bucks row from brady street which is about 350 feet away or go for the 20 second walk to the end of the board school. I know which one makes more sense.
Not unless he was so invested in his work that he didnt notice him until he got pretty close.
Paul wasnt 350ft away when he interrupted Lechmere. When Lechmere realized someone was nearby he had very little choice of what to do.
@@lyndoncmp5751paul was hurrying along he says,if neil whilst standing still could hear thain then the killer could hear someone walking up from that distance.the killer would want to be payiing attention.plenty of time to walk away.
@@Blienck1hard to imaging the killer not paying attention to that end of the street
@leslierock5005
Not if he was paying more attention to the board school end of Bucks Row where someone coming round the corner would be much closer to him including the first copper due to come along. Lechmere, if the killer, would be more worried about that end of Bucks Row. Hence why he didnt want to run off in that direction. He could have bumped into anyone coming from Winthrop Street, Bakers Row etc. The eastern end of Bucks Row was likely of the lesser concern, as he'd have more time to react and act accordingly. Which he managed to do (if he was guilty).
Did he escape? Or did he join the crowd watching what happened
Why did he stop is what is like to know ?
Any chance of a video about that ?
Thanks
Some think there were other murders.
Anyway, Dennis Rader, Joseph DeAngelo, Gary Ridgway, Rex Heuermann etc all killed more people than JTR and they all stopped too.
We don't know, but a video about the possibilities would be interesting: He died, he was imprisoned, he was caged in a lunatic asylum, he became incapacitated, he moved away.
Slaughter men going home at that time that the cart traffic was coming in? He couldn’t have been going to work then. Couldn’t have been going home either. How much did they make? Enough for their own abode? So many questions.
@Thelionatays At least one of slaughter men lived in Winthrop st parralel to Bucks R .Plus it could have been anyone else going home! late shift
New here- were the policemen considered suspects? Is the suspect perhaps disguised, or mearly dressed like a person people avert their glance from, perhaps a known face they already fear seeing?
Well, wouldn't be the first time the old bill turned out to be the poacher rather than the game keeper...As even in modern times the revelations of corruption and worse crimes has shown Police Officers are far from infallible. In relation to the Ripper crimes I haven't seen anything specific related to corruption by any of the PCs or detectives involved in the case, save perhaps for one of PCs on duty the night of the murder in Mitre Square. The name of the PC escapes me for the moment but I believe one of them was dismissed shortly afterwards. What the cause of that was I don't know was it corruption or failing to undertake duties?
No policeman were not considered suspects because they followed a strict patrol timetable
You started this conversation wrong from the start Lechmere wasn't standing over the body he was hacking at the body till the other guy walking down the street noticed him then the infamous lie and luck for Lechmere.
Edwin Baxter gives a strong assumption. He knew the area enough to guess.
He walked away.
Easy to escape if you’re not a suspect and your names Charles cross/ lechmere and you just happen to find a body on the footpath, which you have just killed and a tell another man who just happens to be walking down the same street to come over and look at this.
Spot on
If this is the argument you would present for conviction we would be laughed out of court. Return with evidence please.
@ohmy4275
It wouldn't be "laughed out of court" if a eye witness placed him standing alone and acting suspiciously right next to the body of one of the victims at or near the time of death and with nobody else in sight or sound. That's very very incriminating.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yes and lechmere didn't even see or hear anyone
@@ohmy4275 So where is your evidence for anyone else then. We're not saying lechmere 100% but he is the strongest suspect
Martha Tambram was first....Steve is great!
A very welcome and sensible discussion. Thanks to both of you. I think those who favour Cross/Letchmere as their chief Ripper suspect need to reappraise their conclusions. With so many alternative escape routes it is more than likely the true Ripper took one of them, with the exit via Woods building being the prime candidate for all the reasons discussed here.
Nothing has changed for me. Lechmere was seen by Paul lingering and acting suspiciously right next to the body of Polly at or very near her time of death. Then he lied about a number of things.
I don't see how its more likely than true.., I would say the other way around.
Curious what was the "board school"? Was it just a school? Did people live there? If so who? What ages? etc. Never paid attention to that possibility before.
Police at the time considered it and ruled it out
Board of Education School - that's all
Also if the police were very regular and punctual on there beat he may well of known this and did the murder knowing roughly where the police would be
He could have gone east or west or north or south! Juat like Pac Man! You go, Rippy Jack!
How can anyone believe lechmere thought he saw tarpaulin in the dark? Also was he then prepared to carry it all the way to work? Why would he need it? Surely his cart would have had a cover already? Utter nonsense
Yep, no need for a discarded tarpaulin. Pickfords had loads of them. So he wouldn't have lugged it all the way to work.
He couldn't lug it back home, making himself 20 minutes late for work either.
So why even bother checking out a discarded tarpaulin?
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yes, I've never believed the tarpaulin line. Too much detail. Why didn't he just say he saw her as he was passing?
@kevinkenny6975
Indeed. Neither Paul or PC Neil thought the body was a tarpaulin.
The ripper would have walked thru Woods building on to Whitechapel rd....just looking at it you can tell he would have done this.