Did Robert Paul Encounter Jack The Ripper In Buck's Row?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2023
- Robert Paul was a 31-year-old carman, or delivery driver, who, at a little before 3.45 on the morning of Friday the 31st of August, 1888, set off for work.
His journey took him along Buck's Row, a locality that was notorious for attacks on people by the local gangs.
Well aware of its reputation, Paul quickened his pace and headed towards the Board School that towered over the western end of the first section of the thoroughfare.
As he got near to it, a man who had been standing in the road came over to him and urged him to come and loom at a woman who was lying in a gateway.
Paul did so, and saw the body of Mary Nichols, who is now widely believed to have been the first victim of the killer we now know as Jack the Ripper.
The other man was Charles Cross, albeit we now know that his actually name was Charles Lechmere, and, since Lechmere is now a favoured suspect for having been the perpetrator of the crimes, what Robert Paul saw that morning is extremely important in the field of ripper studies.
In this video, using newspaper reports and interviews with Robert Paul, we let him tell us in his own words exactly what happened on that long ago August morning when, on his walk to walk, he stepped into the story of the Jack the Ripper crimes.
These are my favorite videos. Digging into Jack the Ripper opens you to a whole new world of study into one of the most fascinating time periods of human history, Victorian England. Richards videos mean something more to me due to the fact that I've been suffering brain cancer and these videos help keep my mind active which is a major part of recovery.. It's kind of funny that you can receive a lifesaving nudge from someone you've never met , only seeing them on TH-cam ....
Hi Bill. That's really very kind of you. I'm so sorry to hear that you have been unwell, but it sounds like you re a fighter and I'm glad my videos have been of help. Wishing you all the very best.
Hope you recovery goes well Bill pal take care!
Thinking of u bill buddy stay strong my friend.💪❤️
It would serve nobody living today to ever solve the mysterious identity of the true Jack the Ripper. Generations to come will still be debating these murders. Always keeping dialogue open and fresh.
I find that very satisfactory enough.
For all the decades I've read about Jack, I only recently learned of Lechmere. Fascinating!
Lechmere said he was a delivery driver when he was actually a butcher and delivery driver
I had to chuckle when you talk about how Robert Paul was treated poorly as a witness by the court system. I was recently subpoenaed to testify as a witness in a criminal case (albeit in the U.S., not the U.K.), and had to endure lost wages and poor treatment by the court system as a result. I thought to myself, rather wryly, "nothing's changed!"
In Britain you are paid for loss of earnings+expenses mainly to+fro from court(should have told U.S court to take a jump or maybe follow up for loss of earnings surely you should be recompensed?)
@@craigoliver8712 I had a friend who tried to refuse jury service because he earned alot more working than he would be paid for jury service. They were not happy with him at all and wouldn't except he couldn't do it. He would have been in big bother if he didn't do it. Amazingly when he got to court he knew the person who was on trial for murder . So he wasn't allowed to stay anyway. Worked out for him. 🙂
Stool pigeon.
@@deniseelsworth7816 yeah I thought they were talking about jury duty myself. After a second reading I noticed she actually said "witness" in a case, not jury duty. I never heard of witnesses being paid. Didn't even know that was a thing.
@@deniseelsworth7816 and yeah you can't just skip duty regardless of salary ...trick is to wait until the latest possible time to do the check in. It usually fills up and you will be "not needed".
After following Ripper videos for two decades, this was the first time learning that Robert Paul lost earnings by being fetched up for the inquest. Also, that Paul walked home from work via Buck's-Row and was interviewed by Lloyds. (Did Lechmere later avoid Buck's-Row?)
Excellent video as always - They're all a pleasure to behold.
Good point about Lechmere being equally likely than Paul to run into a cop or reporter when returning from work, but didn't. IMO, there are about 5 instances that could have demonstrated Lech not to be the killer, but he always fails.
Damn that’s a good thought
These guys must have walked the same route to work at roughly the same time every day for years but they’d never encountered each other ? Seems a bit odd really
@mikepotts2470 Charles Lechmere had moved to 22 Doveton Street in June. So, it's not likely they ever would have met. Especially if he was taking a new route.
At the end of the day, if Lechmere was not the Ripper, then we have to discuss why the abdominal wounds were not left on display. There may be more than one explanation perhaps, but i personally believe Lechmere made her look more decent to bolster his "Innocent passer-by on his way to work." image to fool Paul. This is how cool in these circumstances serial killers can be. Just my opinion. There is also the blood evidence indicating a very fresh kill. The main way to run was with the college building on the left and you would have had to run into the road to get a clearer view of the road ahead because of the building jutting out and obscuring your view of the way ahead.
Blood evidence indicating a very fresh kill? What are you talking about??
At the end of the day it's a rather small detail. Like so much about the murders it's just another thing for which we have no definite answers.
I agree. I love your work bro!
@Ad Oculos When PC Neil found polly he noticed some blood coming from her throat. She had not been bleeding that long.
@@PEMBYSGAMINGWORLD She also bled as PC Mizen took a look at her, and that would have been around nine minutes or so after Lechmere left her. Plus, of course, Robert Paul said that he was sure that he felt a movement within the body as he felt the chest. This is vital forensic evidence, and it does not look good at all for Charles Lechmere.
I find Lechmere’s social interactions in regards to Robert Paul and later Constable Mizen to be highly suspicious. First, he professed care for the woman lying in Buck’s Row and flagged down Paul to observe and assist him with her if they could. Both he and Paul tried to find a pulse but there was none, or they assumed it was very slight if at all. At the time, Lechmere was convinced the woman was dead, but Paul was uncertain and thought they should try and prop her up. Lechmere said no and suggested they go find a policeman to handle the woman so that he and Paul could both resume their walks to work. But by the time they found Constable Mizen, Lechmere now seems uncertain himself if the woman was actually dead. He tells the Constable that there is a woman lying in Buck’s Row, either passed out drunk or dead, and that he personally thinks she is dead. The statement implies a lack of certainty on the matter, which is why Constable Mizen did not immediately drop his wake-up call duties to go and investigate. Lechmere changes his mind and course of action frequently in a short period of time. I think it more likely he knew what was going on and was manipulating Paul and Mizen so he could escape the scene without either of them suspecting him.
Actually it was not just Lechmere who seemed unsure if Nichols was alive or dead. Paul himself it seems told Mizen he believed she was dead. That she had been dead for sometime.
Hiya Brian, I'm with you on that one
@steven blomer Robert Paul and Charles Lechmere stated they saw no blood, PC Niel arrives on the scene, he notices blood. She couldn't have been dead for "sometime" the coroner on the scene stated that she hadn't been deceased longer than 30 minutes.
Nothing suspicious at all, just an ordinary bloke on his way to work.
@@walkawaycat431
Spot on
Very well researched and presented...I love the zeroing in on details many of the histories leave out.
Another amazing video Richard ,thankyou. Im doing a tour of all the locations on Saturday the first of April for family and friends, it wont be as good as your tours, but im going to try my best! Keep up this wonderful work you do, your the best 👍
Thank you Nick. Sounds like it's going to be a great tour. Hope you all enjoy yourselves.
2:45 once came across a guy overdosing and he was groaning. He looked dead, but a women gave him CPR and when the paramedics turned up, they said that was normal, and she saved his life, or at least gave his brain enough oxygen as to not cause brain damage.
The feeling of helplessness freaked me out so much I took CPR and use of defibrillator courses. Never had to use them since, fortunately. If she hadn’t been there, I would have just ‘watched him die’ as Johnny Cash said. Pretty dark.
I think many of us wouldn't be able to cope in such a situation, Gustav. Well don for learning about CPR. I did it as part of my guide training, but have never had to use it either. One of my neighbours had a heart attack whilst sitting in his car in a supermarket car park, he was only saved because a nurse was passing and realised what was happening.
And Lee Ving. Ving is actually closer. His song says " I saw an old man have a heart attack in Manhattan. We just stood there lookin' at him"
Great song by Fear called "I Don't Care About You"
How amazing that when you realised you didn't know what to do, you went and learnt so you could know for future. Not many would ❤ that was a great thing to do.
@@JackTheRipperTours Thank god for nurses. They don't get paid NEARLY enough, at least here in Norway.
Superbly constructed and sensitively delivered by the commentator. Thank you.
Another great, factual presentation! Many of these I watch again to remember more details.
Excellent, very thorough videos.
Thank you again for another excellent video richard.
Very welcome
I love your channel Richard I love the way you recite it and your research is great 👍
Another fantastic video 👍👍
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Very informative Richard 😊
Thank you.
Keep up the excellent work Rich
Your channel is has to be in the top 5 of my favorites, your narration along with photos are second to none. However your guest videos are hard to watch, maybe if you incorporate more photos and less of of your guest’s face during narration it would be easier to follow. Great channel, always look forward to your next one. Thanks
Excellent as ever.
Thank you, Andy.
Didn’t Lechmere tell Mizen that another policeman was waiting in Buck’s Row and when they went back, by sheer luck, PC Neil was standing over the body?
He said (in court I think) that he said 'you're needed over there' and so the policeman had understood it as another officer had asked for him. That's if lechmere was telling the truth. I personally don't think he was the killer.
@@ellehan3003 you're missing the point. It was PC Jonas Mizen's evidence that Lechmere told him another policeman wanted him in Buck's row. Lechmere denied saying that during his own testimoney. But most of us prefer to believe the policeman than the top JTR suspect for some strange reason
@fiachramaccana280 Exactly. Mizen said that Lechmere told him, "You're wanted over there another policeman is waiting"
@@ellehan3003 PC Mizen wouldn't leave his post and duties just with some dude saying him "you're needed over there" without further clarification.
A fascinating channel, very professionally and respectfully presented. Some victims will have descendant family alive today I'm sure. ( & Maybe Jack to). Best regards all.
Enjoyed the and of course well narrated by Richard Jones well done!
Enjoyed the video, and of course it's well narrated by Richard Jones well done!
The police knocking on people's doors to get them up for work !!
Very quaint !
Jack was not the only murderer of those times
there was somebody pullin the famous Torso Murders in a zero range vicinity to jack the ripper; like 2 roads down; pinchin street and all that. Some people think it might have been jack the ripper in those cases as well, some disagree cause the modus operandi was "different". There were plenty of murderers in Whitechapel in that time frame....Jack the ripper might even be many people at the same time.
A Great detailed account 🙂👋
Very interesting indeed! Many thanks :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you yet again Mr.Jones.
In Paul’s “remarkable statement” he allegedly said “it was too dark to see the blood about her”. This happened on his way home from work. The question is how did he knew there were blood? All he knew first hand was that he was the second man to find an unconscious or dead woman. If drunk and unconscious there wouldn’t have been any blood. If dead she could have been knocked down or strangled, which wouldn’t have left any blood neither.
Did the reporter tell him about the blood? Had he heard rumors during his work hours? Or could it have been a slip up? Could Paul have known more than what he was revealing to the reporter and at the inquest?
There are a few contradictions. Obviously we don't know that much about Paul, and I think the journalist may have prompted him as he questioned and interviewed him. "Did you see the blood?"
Yeah, the reporter probably prompted him, if they’re anything like they are today, and I’ve seen nor heard anything to suggest they weren’t.
The fact that he knelt (or was it stooped?) next to the body and didn’t have blood on his pants concerns me as there was a pool of blood later.
I certainly think he heard the news throughout his work day. As a Carman, he would be talking to people all day. Words spread quickly
I had no idea the inquest reports have been lost. Probably something people should look for, assuming they could be recovered, no?
@Pingthescribe
True! They ought too. It's of great historical importance. I should think that they could find them. Not only because of the notoriety of the case, but also because (if I remember correctly), not so long ago, I think it was the autopsy report, that of Amy Dudley. She was the wife of Robert Dudley. Amy was found dead at the bottom of the stairs in their house. It's always been believed that she was hit over the head, then thrown down the stairs, to make her death look like an accident.
It's believed this was done, so Robert could have a chance at marrying Queen Elizabeth. If an autopsy report of someone from that far back in history can be found, I don't see why documents pertaining to an inquest into the death of a woman, who just happened to be killed by one of the most infamous murderers in the late 1800s, couldn't be found. Again, this happened in the late 1800s. It's a lot closer to our time, then that of the alleged murder of Amy Dudley.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I would suggest that Robert Paul ( incidentally I went to school with someone of the same name) is significant by his statement about not hearing or seeing anyone that morning until he met Lechmere. The other and speculation is that his statements and actions may have deflected any suspicions away from Lechmere.
Richard, mate, why are you using such out-of-date maps...?? Surely the old OS ones can't still be in copyright?!?
I'm afraid they are Mark. One publisher had to pay a massive settlement to OS.
Charles Cross not wanting to act on Paul's suggestion that they "sit the woman up" is interesting. That's exactly what the Ripper would say, knowing her throat had been cut through to the bone.
Maybe Lechmere just didn't want to touch her. I know that's how I am. Maybe the Ripper darted as Lechmere entered the row.
@@mr.rubicon1193He was the ripper
The FBI profilers came up with a good description of this guy, any witness description should meet those characteristics
Yes, they did. And FBI profilers are highly experienced in creating these profiles so it’s useful data to finding the killer. But, even profiles make mistakes. I think a few details here or there that are off should not completely exclude a suspect from suspicion.
FBi profilers have made mistake after mistake as they have no education in the social history of that area at the time and don't appear to think they should do some basic reading on the subject.
I listened to John Douglas' profile. I'll be damned if Lechmere doesn't check off just about every box from as far as I have heard about him.
Profiling is only a useful tool, it's as handy as the info used. The FBI profiles on the Ripper are actually dated.
@@adoculos4521 Typical American hubris
Hiya Richard, Is this area of London still a no go after dark? I'm suprised that not anyone seen Jack The Ripper, thats just my hunch on things, this is Choppy in Whitehaven, Cumbria, England
Hi. To be honest it's fairly safe now. The new exit from Whitechapel Underground Station comes out onto Durward Street, so there are lots of people about. Although I can't guarantee that Jack the Ripper isn't out there still!
@@JackTheRipperTours Thaks for the reply, do you watch Fact Feast TH-cam channel, its something similar to your channel
Someone did see him...Berner Street, Liz Stride...
Would Paul's negative encounters and view of police cause him to inadvertently cast Cross/Lechmere as an innocent witness, too?
Great point.
Richard Jones - the best narrator on TH-cam!
They also my favourite videos.
Great video as always.
I don't think it was Cross. Would be stupid to linger around and I think the Ripper would have pretty much legged it on the approach of anybody. It is what he did with all the other murders which was pretty much leave the scene as soon as possible. Makes no sense to remain and have a conversation after you have just murdered a woman.
With regards to Robert Paul, it just goes to show how much of a mess things were done. They couldn't even get his name right.
Exactly. Why move to the centre of the road?
Not necessarily. He could have been invested too much in trying to mutilate Polly, then he heard Paul's footsteps. He couldn't leg it that way. Legging it the other way could have run him straight into one of the policeman doing the rounds in that direction.
It theoretically makes sense to quickly cover the victim, step back and size up the approaching witness. Not wave him over or call for help but instead decuce the demeanour of the witness and just pretend she's a drunk etc.
He didn't linger. He was doing his job when Paul popped along and disturbed him.
He had a tough call. Running would only confirm him as the killer and he knew there were police around. So as the cool customer he was he chose to brazen it out. And it worked
Although I wouldn't dismiss Lechmere as the Ripper entirely I agree with your assessment. Paul mentions that Lechmere stopped him to look at the body. Otherwise he would've walked by. It was dark. There is no reason for Lechmere to call Paul. Lechmere could've just let him pass and walked away. You could suggest Lechmere wasn't so sure Paul wouldn't go near him and it was a quick ploy to misdirect Paul. But it just seems weird to me Lechmere would walk along with Paul to work and inform the police about this all. Although he gave his alias to the policeman he made himself very recognizable to both Paul and the police. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Furthermore I at least find it very unusual that he would kill someone on his way to work. Generally assumed is that the Ripper was soliciting prostitutes to get near them without scaring them, so they wouldn't scream. That implies some strategic thinking and not only murdering on impulse. All together it doesn't make sense to me a serial killer doing all this while going to work.
@OMGpantani Gary Ridgeway, Peter Sutcliffe, Joseph D'Angelo, and many, many others killed on their way to work, during their work, before their work, after their work. Etc.
Cross/Lechmere's behavior casts serious doubts as to his guilt imo. If he was the murderer, fleeing or killing Robert Paul too would seem the most likely response. Instead he stepped up to him, when Paul was actually trying to hurry pass. If Charles was Jack, at the least he would be more than happy to let Paul hurry past in the dark. Then he could have slipped away. Instead, he went with Paul to find a policeman. Paul at no time thought he was in danger once he realized Charles wasn't trying to rob him. Charles just didn't raise any alarm bells or suspicions in Paul, the PC's or the inquest
If he was the killer then he was remarkably cool , calm and calculating after having been practically caught in the act. He would have had just a few seconds to figure out what his approach was going to be towards Paul . Or maybe he used those seconds to steady himself before providing his rehearsed response if caught at the crime scene. Guilty people don't always run or behave as expected. Maybe this shows he was an experienced criminal accustomed to taking risks and had steady nerves as a result. Having said that , it's a bit of a stretch to name Lechmere as a prime suspect based on his subsequent behaviour towards Paul.
@bernicia 1140 and he continued to live and work as a Carman in the same district, I believe, once he was examined by the court and found not be the murderer or involved in any way other than discovery of the body.
And so what if Paul then noticed the dead/dying body as he walked past and Lechmere didn't raise any alarm or even indicate there was a woman in trouble? That's extremely risky. Then Paul would definitely know the person by the body was her killer.
He could have done that, or he could have bluffed. Probably either would have worked. What's more likely: Paul neither seeing Lech (there were opportunities) or hearing Lech's footsteps just ahead, on such a dangerous street, at that time of morning, until seeing him at the side of the body, or Lechmere arriving earlier than he stated, and deciding not to run? Those are your only two options.
that's the " ripper " they won't it's all very silly really but dead men can't defend themselves .
House of Lechmere nods in agreement.
Things haven't changed much in regards to government pay for citizens service.
Get pressed into jury duty and you get paid but a pittance compared to your daily pay. No wonder folk try to get off the jury, especially if you get onto a real convoluted messy case.
I think this one is harder to understand than the rest. Given the reputation of Bucks Row it seems an unlikely place for Mary to be soliciting though being slightly drunk might have clouded her judjement. The Frying Pan public house where she squandered her doss money still stands and is worth a visit. These days a restaurant you can still see the crossed frying pans set in stucco.
Actually it's a very likely place.
The police claimed it was well known for such behaviour. There were brothels in Winthrop and Thomas St, and Bakers Row. The evidence points towards the area behind. Whitechapel station being a distinct Red Light district.
Why did the ripper, who liked to display his work, cover Polly’s abdominal wounds? Why would he waste the precious few seconds he had to do that?
I wonder what became of Paul after the inquest. Was he implicated in the murder of Annie Chapman? Great video as always Sir Rich!
Hi Dave, he and his wife went on to have four more children, the last being born in 1895.
I don't think anyone was really implicated in the Annie Chapman murder, except that there must have been at least a little bit of suspicion about John Richardson.
If Charles Cross/Lechmere was the killer of (at least) Mary Nichols, it would have been in his best interest to cover up the mutilations since he was spotted at the crime scene by Paul.
Maybe he just impulsively killed this woman, then got a thrill out of the media buzz and so escalated to get more of that ‘fix’ of media attention. So many possibilities, probably why it’s the most intriguing case in history even after all this time.
I think nothing happened to Robert Paul after the inquest. I think like Lechmere that he went back to his old life and relative obscurity until the day he died. We know when Lechmere died (in 1920), but I never remember hearing or reading what year Robert Paul died, which means it probably isn’t known.
Everyone says Cross heard Paul, so stopped the killing. But isn't it more likely Cross fond polly after the ripper heard Cross
Yeah and if Robert Paul said she was very cold to the touch like he did at the inquest, than this would suggest she had been there a while. Likely long before Cross had found her. I think Cross is a suspect definitely, but not the 100% hands on murder that a lot of people seem to think.
Problem being, if cross left home at the later time of 3,30, he would have been iñ bucks row 3,37 ,3,38, Paul entered bucks row 3,45 , which indicates cross had been there 7 to 8 minutes,a fairly long time
I have always thought that is more likely. Cross entered the street shortly after JTR left. Then Paul entered while Cross wss observing.
@@ghostdestiny1 but we have no idea how accurate those times are. They may have been incorrect or off by a few minutes from their initial statement. Certainly not hard evidence of anyone's guilt.
To put it simply Mathew no it isn't more likely
I think your correct with the first murder the 3rd was one of the gangs of the time the 2nd 4th and 5th was Barnett
Why does no one suspect Robert Paul is the ripper I’ve heard how they think Charles Lechmere is guilty but Robert Paul wanting credit for finding the body is megalomaniacal which clearly Jack had to be he would’ve wanted to be able to get away with it in plain sight while Lechmere wanted no scandal no press no shame brought onto his family which already had issues
Robert Paul wasn't seen standing alone and acting suspiciously right next to the body.
He killed Polly Nichols and then circled around the block, running into Lechmere next to the body? Anything is possible.
@@thomashahn631Paul could gave gone in to Winthrop street woods building left into Whitechapel Road left in to Bradley Street left in to Bucks row would b a 2 to 3 min walk so very possible. Also Annie Chapman was killed behind where Paul worked.
or he was simply pissed about not having gained the coin for that shift he had missed on for finding the body and getting the credit for it would have him either be repaired of it by the judges investigatin the case with the police or his employer
Robert Paul didn’t go to police, he went to a newspaper, that’s why the police summoned him to the inquest!
@jacktherippertour
Is the any evidence that Robert Paul was at any other scenes ?
Also - in Paul’s statement he implies he knew of Lechmere . He describes him as giving him a wide berth due to the area - but then allows him to touch his shoulder ?
Presumably if it’s a dangerous area you would only let someone you knew get so close ?
Did court reporters use shorthand? Was an inhouse stenographer, or hired out? Could the proceedings be extant in that form and so not easily recognized for what they contain?
It would be interesting to know if Paul has any descendants alive today and to what extent this is a family tale as I’ve never heard of that angle being looked into !
I do think it’s very telling that the Lechmere family had no idea of his connection- finding the ‘very first ripper victim’ which suggests he never mentioned these events at home !
Im his great great granddaughter! My nan tells me stories about it, its actually quite interesting. Its really cool that he found the body, its an interesting part of my family history, but its also not good she was killed
Lechmere people seem to ONLY talk about the first murder. What about the others? Time, days of the week???
Thirty years ago I was summoned to jury service in the UK. I read the paperwork and learned that as an unemployed person I would be given the princely sum of £2-50 per day to buy my lunch. I also noticed that dentists would be paid £60 per day for lost earnings. Now it seems to me that the dentist loses nothing and gains £60 pounds profit because the patients he can't see during the trial will be re-sheduled so he will still get their money. My time however, was much more valuable because I had a young child and another on the way and I had just moved house and I had lots to do. I wrote to the jury people and told them unless I get £60 per day as well they can fvck off. I never heard from them after that.
If Lechmere had killed Polly Nichols, her body would have been warm. It wasn’t.
Only the face and hands were reported to be cold and the Doctor estimated at around 4am that she had been dead for about half an hour. Still enough time for the body to retain some of its warmth.
The first thing to recognize here is that presumably police sketch artists could not even determine whether the body lay parallel to the wall or with feet facing the road. It seems apparent the police were useless. Just as they were useless regarding Christie and Sutcliffe.
It is said Robert Paul did not like the police. But like most people connected to the murders, the details of his life prior to August 31st 1888 are unknown. Perhaps he did not like the police investigation. Perhaps he suspected Cross / Lechmere and wondered why the police did not likewise suspect him. Perhaps he did not think it his duty to tell the police how to do their job. And perhaps he suspected Lechmere right from his first meeting with him that night in Bucks Row. Giving evidence at inquest would not include throwing allegations around. Yet because we do not have the transcript - who knows what was said at the inquest. Or indeed on the night of the 31st itself.
The variables here are manifold. Paul saw Lechmere stood next to Nicols. Lechmere did not see the killer. So it appears the killer heard or saw Lechmere with more time in hand to make his escape compared to when Paul spotted Lechmere. Paul knew the area was dodgy. So he would presumably have been on his guard for danger up ahead - as opposed to the main road behind him that he had just traversed. Yet he heard nor saw nothing until spotting Lechmere stood beside Nichols.
I know for a fact that whilst some summer nights can be humid - many are very cold - despite it being high summer. And especially cold when there are no clouds to hold in the heat of the previous day. It is said that blood slowly oozed - suggesting strangulation prior to being cut. The supporting police evidence supporting this fact. The fact Lechmere did not want to touch Nicols is also suspicious. Maybe he was just a selfish man who did not want to help or perhaps even save a woman's life. If he was the killer - I think he did not run because he knew he might run straight into a policeman. And PC Neal indeed approached from the west - away from the direction that Paul had arrived - just a few minutes later. PC Neil presumably never saw the two men. But did Lechmere spot PC Neal? Did he deliberately walk on Paul's right hand side to prevent a view in the direction of the road from where Neil approached? We know the killer was clever. Lechmere may have thought here comes a turning on the right and deliberately obscured it. He may even have done this multiple times. It appears Lechmere had the upper hand out of the two men. He walked with Paul to near where Paul worked after all. Seemingly imposing himself. Did Lechmere hope a policeman would not be found? If so, he could of then told Paul that he would "obviously" report the incident after he got to work, not done so, and Paul would then have been left wondering who it was he found with Nichols, in the dark, without perhaps even having a good description of his face. But as it stood, they found PC Mizen and Lechmere had to inform him of the incident to maintain the appearance of his innocence to Paul.
It's interesting studying the case because you learn snippets of information as you look further into it. For example, here we learn that it seems Paul interacted with Mizen. Lechmere presumably did most of the talking because it was he, and not Paul, who first discovered Nichols. Mizen forgot about Paul until reminded at the inquest. He let both men head off on the night. And he, or someone, also failed to mention that these two men existed whilst the police officially claimed that Neal had discovered Nicols. Paul then did a press interview and the police were angry about it - instead of focusing on what was important - the man found by Paul with Nichols. Talk about incompetent.
The fact Lechmere failed to come forward for three days amid the news reports and horror of the case depicted in the news reports, for me, speaks volumes. The fact Lechmere lied about his name, or at best failed to inform the police that Cross was not his birth name, could of, innocent or not, got him hung for the murder. Or at least arrested until Chapman was murdered and it was therefore proven he was innocent by virtue of the fact that he was still in police custody at the time. And it is also very convenient for Lechmere that Chapman was murdered just eight days later - the shortest time span between all of the canonical five victims - whilst the Nicols inquest was ongoing - therefore taking most of the focus off the Nicols inquest and on to a truly brutal crime scene and the fact that a serial killer was at large. Indeed, that comparison roughly mirrors the double event in as much as the killer struck again immediately after Stride was killed, whereas it took eight days after Nichols was killed. Days when Lechmere was at work, at the inquest, perhaps worried about being tracked down by the police and arrested, and perhaps contemplating whether or not he had satiated his lust for murder or wanted to kill again.
We have this notion that a serial killer must continue until caught or otherwise stopped. But this is pure speculation. Who knows why the killer stopped killing after the Kelly murder. If the Kelly murder was the last victim. Perhaps Jack went too far with Kelly even for his standards. Perhaps he thought he needed to kill Kelly indoors due to the police presence and the likes of Lusk roaming the streets at night. Perhaps he though gaining access to another room with no witnesses was a bridge too far. Perhaps he knew of the police donning women's clothes. Maybe he wanted to kill but did not want to swing for it. Maybe the enforced cessation after the Kelly murder made him think twice afterwards. Whatever the case - what is certain is that Kelly lived in literally the most notorious part of the district in terms of crime. Yet the killer left unmolested. Because if he was molested by a villain, said villain could easily of lied about robbing him and just came forward to say he saw the killer. But no one did come forward.
We will probably never know the truth. But for me Lechmere remains the prime suspect by a clear mile.
A brilliantly detailed report.
1:32 How everything has changed, from creepy Victorian slums to a modern and pretty attractive street.
Actually, it's hideous.
Nor everything has changed. The Woods Buildings passage still exists but has been blocked off to members of the public. The footbridge at the end of it has long gone though.
Did Charles cross AKA LETCHMERE Not give his address to to the local police? You said Robert Paul was on guard as he was aware of many mugging in the area? Is it not possible that cross gave a false name because he was worried about the high rip gangs in the area?
Hi Ron, anything is possible. Robert Paul actually said he was on his guard. My personal opinion is that Charles Cross may well have stopped in Buck's Row on his way home that night, but we can never prove anything anymore.
It wasn't really a false name, but an alternative name. It was his stepfather's name, and he had appeared on a census with that name. We don't know why he chose to use the name Cross here, but my theory is that Cross is the name that he used at work, so using the name Cross would make it easier for the police to contact him at work if they wished to.
I thought they knew he lived on Doveton Street, no?
Charles used both names (Cross and Lechmere) at different times in his life and for different reasons. Mostly he used his birth name, Lechmere, for example, when he bought or leased the home he was living in. But here’s what I noticed: 12 years before he (allegedly) found Polly Nichols’ body, Lechmere was involved in another death and coroner’s inquest. Around Christmas 1876, he accidentally ran over a kid who ran out into the road in front of his delivery carriage. There were witnesses who testified to what happened, and Lechmere was acquitted from all responsibility for the boy’s death. But note that when Lechmere gave his name to both coroner’s inquests (1876 and 1888) he used his stepfather’s surname, Cross. He wasn’t intentionally lying to them, as some have said, because he had a legal right to both names. He gave them his correct address, and the police probably looked at the lease and noticed the difference in the surnames and were initially confused, but determined later that it was the same man. I personally think he simply didn’t want his preferred surname (Lechmere) that he used in his personal and work life to be connected with a coroner’s inquest, so he used his lesser used surname (Cross) to veil his connection to the incidents from his friends and acquaintances. They could read the newspapers and not recognize that it was their co-worker giving testimony.
@@otisdylan9532 What so many people don't understand is that it was normal at that time in that area to give a false name to any authority figure and even socially to live and operate under different names for many.
It was Lechmere
All I can say is I think the Ripper was interrupted when he saw the Charles approaching. His main purpose was to shock by displaying the mutilated body.
There was no time even though it was his 1st kill if it actually was.
I believe JtR is the most daring serial killer ever who had the audicity to murder & mutilate in public spaces where he could've easily have been caught especially when police patrolling was every 15 min.
It's like mr Ben for adults I'm whating for the shopkeeper to say this was sir to number 4 Faistave Road
Interesting. A policeman "calling people up" is a nice alibi to have if people are wondering why you are roaming the streets in the early hours.
The policeman was on his regular beat, knocking up was one of his duties.
But what about the other man... the one who actually found the body???
Jack the ripper must have really got his rocks off knowing that he absolutely fooled the police.
Knocking up duty ..lol😂
Did Robert Paul encounter JTR? Yep, he spoke to Charles Lechmere.
These are the scenarios as I see them: Lechmere found the body first and was probably the one who disturbed the murderer, who could have heard him coming up the street and fled quietly away. 2. Paul disturbed the Murderer who was lechmere who quickly came up with plan B. Look like an inocent passer by that discovered a body. Whichever one the body was fresh dead so whichever senario it was the ripper was nearby. Pretty scary realy and I bet it freaked Paul out a bit. If only the Police had been more onto it and detained both Paul and Lechmere and maybe even searched them that it could of saved the others.
Robert Paul's presence is the main reason I don't think Lechmere was Jack, or at the very least, Mary Nichols's killer. If we're going to believe his testimony, Mary Nichols might've been already dead by the time Lechmere saw her. Plus, if Paul was as cautious as he said he was, he would've noticed if Lechmere had blood on him.
How many work outfits would a carman have? They aren't IBM executives and are bound to get animal blood on their clothing during the course of the week. It was Friday morning.
Robert Paul and Charles Lechmere touched her body. Neither had blood on them nor saw blood anywhere. That being said, PC Niel said the blood was noticeable minutes later when he came upon Polly Nichol's. I believe Lechmere killed Polly Nichol's. The murder was so fresh that no blood was coming out. She had been strangled beforehand, therefore no arterial spray. It would have been virtually bloodless until she was bleeding out. Remember, Lechmere said he didn't see or hear anyone else. He lied about the amount of time he was alone with her as well. This is according to the time he said he left for work. There is a tiny window of someone else other than Lechmere being the killer. I think she would have been bleeding out faster if someone other than Lechmere was the killer. Yet, Robert Paul and Lechmere saw no blood or had any on their hands.
Paul obviously was the second...it was IMPOSSIBLE for Lechmere to get there just seconds of the murder without seeing or hearing anything, never mind his fifteen minute time discrepancy from when he left home and the time it would take to walk there. It was complete incompetence by the police and the inquest.
I find it odd that Paul says she was so cold she must have been dead sometime and possibly moved there, if she had been killed a matter of minutes earlier by Lechmere, would she have been that cold?
From about 2:10 am Nicholls was outside. Prior to that she had been in the Frying Pan public house and then a lodging house kitchen in Flower and Dean street. That gives about ninety minutes exposure which on the surface would not appear to be enough time for the body to be cold to the touch. However given the poor weather the stops at the pub and the lodging house may well have been an attempt to get dry as much as anything. If her clothes were still damp this may have been a factor in her body temperature. All this assumes of course that Paul is telling the truth and not simply trying to imply that the police had failed to patrol Bucks Row.
@@vespasian606 Ya fair comment, so much relies on hearsay of those few involved.
It was probably a cold night your hands wouldn't stay warm for long.
@EmpiricalMind
I think it was because of it being a cold night. Although not just that. We must member the injuries she suffered. There would have been a great loss of blood, even if Robert and Charles didn't see it. This would undoubtedly, contribute to the temperature of the body.
Robert paul is my great great grandfather!! My nan always tells me the story, so I decided to do some research
Hey
I think your great great grandfather caught the ripper . Did he ever taught on that?
It all adds up for Charlie
Maybe Charles plus Paul is JTR
Darkness I’d say!!!
Wait a minute. Robert Paul reported that the body of Mary Nichols was cold when he saw her. So how long does a body become cold after death? Charles Lechmere must have been standing over the body for two hours.
Not long. A few minutes at least but not much more when there's a lot of bloodloss. All depends how long the heart beated for until the blood flowed out without aid of the heart to regulate temperature.
It was reportedly a chilly morning, would anyone's hands have been warm? Living people can have cold hands.
That was his newspaper interview. At Polly Nichol's inquest, he said he detected a breath. He was probably trying to make the cops look like they weren't doing their jobs.
Meaning there by a culprit has a ps be
I'm confused ny something, and it may have been covered before. Only a very miner Ripperologist I do have some Medical background in Hematology. If she was killed on the spot by slitting the throat and arteries the amount of blood loss would have been voluminous. If somewhere else, minor. Yet this fellow claims that it was too dark. Not only would he be slipping in it post-mortem blood loss would still be a bright red and reflecting light. Surely by the time the Constable arrived with his torch it would still be highly reflective. To me, only one could be true, that she was murdered on the spot which contradicts Paul and the Constable or she was murdered else where?
I could be wrong but I think he asphyxiated them all first. The butchery started afterwards. This accounts I think for a lot of people not noticing any spray and the blood being soaked into the clothes. The one exception of course would be Mary Kelly, no matter what he surely would have been covered in it so would have needed a coat or something to cover up. Or maybe even a change of clothes and gloves.
Much of the blood had been absorbed by her clothing. The items around her neck and shoulders were sodden, with clots between the various layers.
While i agree the blood loss would be very high, if she was partially strangled first as many suspect, the pressure and flow would be reduced.
Wasn't she wearing every stitch she owned , I'm sure the corner stated she had 7 layers of clothing which helped conceal most of the blood .
Which makes me think it's someone from the horse slaughterers which was just near Bucks Row. The people who worked there had a horrible job and I believe were on a night shift at the time - slaughtering all night and knowing the ins and outs of blood spatter. They would have also been covered in blood and entrails. The horse slaughterers was just around the corner in Bucks Row- Winthrop Street. Men from there were named and called in as witnesses. Guessing you might get yourself into a drunken state to cope with that job and these men worked through the night. I know it has been mentioned Lechmere had a link to horse slaughterers but I don't know how tenuous. There is a callous link in slaughtering old horses and 'unfortunate' women , a misogynist no doubt. Still not ruling out CL though, it's all too circumstantial.
@@anignorantbrit You're quite right, I forgot that he strangled them first and did not vivisect them. Old man memory is failing!
This video makes me think Cross wasn't Jack. If Paul caught him in the act why would she be cold? That would mean she had been dead for quite a bit. Unless he came back to the scene but killers that usually do that watch from a far or leave their victim I'm a spot that there won't be so many people so they can go back to the body.
Lol as I hit send I heard the article that stated the same but it's still a good point.
It wasn't Cross. The ripper was long gone by the time Cross found the body.
Well the doctor who came within 10 minutes stated that she had just been killed. Putting the time of her death at the time Robert Paul arrived.
Also compared to other ripper victims, she had just been killed and had only one gash across her abdomen, but it was hidden by her dress which had been pulled down to her waist. Hence the killer had been disturbed in the act of ripping her body and covered his work in a haste.
Now the testimony of Robert Paul was about her hands . Some people have cold hands and cold cheeks. And it was an unusually cold night for late august. My guess is that he was appalled that despite him telling the PC she was dead, he was ignored and the Bobby continued knocking on doors so Robert Paul wanted to drive the point that he thought she was dead to the journalist, talking about her having cold hands.
But paul contradicts himself because at one point he listened to her heart and he felt that he heard a gasp of air or a faint beating.
@@alainprostbis Correct
@@simonjames4984 And how do you know that?
This suggestion may not land well with some folk, but it's my belief that Jack might actually be a Jill. Everyone from the beginning has been looking for a man and coming up empty with loads of wild theories. Just think about it a little. Who knows?
definitely not .. .the way he gut them woman would needed overpower them... definitely hands of man
I quite agree with this theory as well. So many have always looked for a man because of various serial killer canons that studies of such go by , not many realize that Jill could hide in absolute plain sight; then she would've cunningly signed herself as "jack"so that the whole police and public opinion would be looking for a man instead.
Inspector Abberline had considered this idea after talkin to witness Caroline Maxwell, post last canonical murder.
Lechmere is a very strong candidate; I agree!
But if he'd just killed Polly minutes earlier wouldn't her body, even the extremities, have been warm to the touch?
Paul however stated that her hands and face were cold! What was the temperature that evening?
Cold.
@@kevinkenny6975 No, it was late August, so quite warm.
You can still get cold nights. Furthermore, she had lost a large amount of blood. This would definitely result in a body being colder, and at a quicker rate than in a living person.
@@motivationinspiration-wu7sw 'Furthermore, she had lost a large amount of blood.' WRONG. She was almost certainly strangled before being ripped so there was minimal blood loss. And it was a summer's morning. Letchmere was just an innocent hardworking man on his way to work.
I've known women who have had cold extremities while being alive and indoors.
I don't think Lechmere was the ripper. One thing we know about murderers who commit crimes like the ripper is that they do not stop until they are stopped. The nature of the crimes also points towards somebody suffering from severe psychosis (for example, in recent years, Robert Napper committee similarly violent crimes and was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia). Lechmere was not like that at all and went on to lead a relatively long and prosperous life.
Lechmere evidently walked by every murder site on his way to work or on his way home, even his mom home was around the corner from a murder site, and he used to live close to the torso murders on pinchon at crime scene
This is a myth: some serial killers do quit. Murdering people, by its very nature is violent. Do you mean the mutilation part? There are serial killers who can mutilate, and still socialize.
Well. Bundy, Gacy, Ridgeway, Sutcliffe, D'Angelo, Rader, and hundreds of married, normal, seemingly nice family men were serial killers.
I can think of very few schizophrenic serial killers, Ed Gein, Ted Kaczysnki to name the most infamous. Usually schizophrenics are spree or mass killers. Jack the Ripper was a psychopath, pretty sure he wasn't schizophrenic. Charles Allen Lechmere is the best suspect by far.
I wonder if it was a cop that did it maybe even the one knocking on doors..Its possible the cop had medical training in his past..We may never know though...
My personal belief is that no Robert Paul did not encounter Jack the Ripper in bucks row
More than one ripper. Several murderers actually. Sensationnalism did the rest. Lechmere was certainly one of "them"
The fact that neither man noticed the throat wound is peculiar, considering how much contact they had with the body. That they could sense her breathing is another factor. Is it possible that the wound had not been inflicted until the two men had moved on? That the killer was watching them?
It would have been pitch black, no street lamps, the policeman had an oil lamp
Could it have been 2 people involved in the ripper murders ?
They have estimated that if Paul's time of 3:45 is correct (and he was quite certain about it, using the words "exactly", and he would have reason to be certain - being late for work), then Paul meets Lechmere at around 3:46. He stated in his inquest that they definitely did not stay with the body for more than four minutes (he probably periodically checked his watch). If we grant that they left towards PC Mizen's location at 3:49, turned right at the end of Buck's Row at 3:50, then PC Neil would have just crossed the corner to the south of them, basically overlapping in their reverse direction, since Neil stated in his testimony that he found the body at 3:51.
My guess is that Paul's estimate of "not more than four minutes" would in fact be a shorter time. He is in a state of shock, and the conversation between him and Lechmere must have gone at a rapid pace. I think they decided to leave the body quite quickly after checking for signs of life, say in about two minutes.
This would leave the Ripper with just a couple of minutes to spontaneously summon himself (from where?), tear down Nichols' clothes, slash her abdomen, and then vanish into thin air before Neil enters the scene.
So the short answer is no. :D
A thing that might have happened is that Lechmere had the whereofitall to actually notice PC Neil coming up from behind them, and therefore telling Mizen that "a policeman is waiting for you". If Lechmere was the killer, and a psychopath, he would not be in the shocked state that Paul was in, and could probably hear PC Neil approaching eastwards say 50 yards behind them. Psychopaths are highly in tune with their surroundings in situations where normal people have their blinders on.
Has a psychological fear not to. Talk about. His crime. Lest. He might be. Caught
If Lechmere did it ,wouldn't his hands have been bloody?
No.
Being dark they probably couldn't see
Yes they would be, but it was very dark and he may have been wearing gloves or had his hands behind his back or in his pockets. Assuming of course Cross did it, which is debatable.
A fell monger, or slaughter man, can cut an animals throat without getting blood on his hands or his 🔪 happy healthy peace
These weren't Google executives. Their world was more use to a bit of blood and dirt. It's the end of the week, his carman's outfit probably accumulates a fair amount of blood and dirt over the course of the week.
it was a man called jack i think
I totally agree, unless the ripper was Jill!
Lechmere lived near or walked past the murder sites he has to be alot of bad luck or was the murderer.
He walked past two murder sites, Nichols and Chapman.
Stride and Eddowes are not on his route to work, but the argument made is he was visiting his mother, which is pure speculation.
Kelly was close to a route he could have used, but there were many possible routes from his home to work.
@@stevenblomer7738 - The rare voice of cranial equilibrium. And of course that line of enquiry would throw up literally thousands of unwitting suspects - for each individual murder case.
@@stevenblomer7738 the very case of Robert Paul shows that Lechmere is an unusually good candidate.
For robert Paul, only 2 victims (numer one and 2 of the canonical ones) are along his walk to work.
To find a suspect who has reasons to be in the early hours of morning at all the places (even a case for the evening of the double event can be reasonnbly made) is not that easy. Especially as the street were deserted.
Paul immediatly goes to the police (while he does not like them very much). After discovering the body.
He does not try to downplay the event and says the woman on buck s row is probably dead.
Paul is appalled that the pc does not immediately go to the site.
Paul spontaneuosly go talk to a journalist and give is true name.
This shows how bizarre Charles lechmere attitude is.
@@alainprostbis I agree
I didn't think any documentation survived highlighting his route to work? Where are we getting this from?
Yes he did and his name was Charles Allen Lechmere (Cross).
A Man whom no one noticed or suspected; hiding in plain sight, for over 100 years.
Inept Policing, a total failure to note the circumstances surrounding the crime scene, the deceit of Charles Lechmere, on several levels and his manipulation of Robert Paul and PC Mizen.
Typical of a calculating Psycopath.
Contrary to myth, they are in control and can be charming and believable.
That's why so many Serial Killers, still escape capture, for decades.
Every Ripper murder, occurred on Lechmeres' route to his work.
His Mother lived in the locality.
He had knowledge of the area he hunted in and knew his escape routes and the routines of the Police on their Beat.
Just one example of his calm demeanour, as he was disturbed, in the throws of murdering Polly.
If Lechmere wasn't her killer, then he would certainly have seen who was!
He didn't, because it was him.
He calmly walked towards Paul, rather than run and have Paul alert the Police, or chase after Lechmere.
It was classic psychopathic behaviour, arrogance; to initiate the encounter with Paul and therein, make himself a good Samaritan.
"Nothing to see here...just a drunk Woman".
Paul wanted to fit Polly up but Lechmere refused to assist. Because her throat was freshly cut and Paul would have seen this and realised...that Lechmere was most likely, her killer.
Within minutes of her murder, Lechmere did everything he could, to control the situation and lie and deceive.
He only came forward, as a witness, when Paul outed him in a newspaper interview, as finding Polly's body.
Lechmere isn't the monster of Ripperology or anyone famous at the time, as has often been assumed.
He was a working Man, a Psycopath; who murdered Women, because he enjoyed it and he got away with it.
That's the grimey and unappealing truth of it.
Paul came upon the ripper working he got caught being smart dont look like a killer act like a passer by and now your a witness he even tried to cover her private parts badically his work and , he didnt seem to stunned think finding a dead woman maybe back then it was a normal day , but i would be thinking he would be panicing asking like what do we do or shaling teying to wake her
🤔Wonder if people were paying part of there council tax to the uncompatant police then😂Have learnt over the years where the phrase NOT MUCH COP has come from.😂
Lechmere / Cross has been my prime suspect for years.
No, he didn't.
Given the lack visible blood when Paul arrived, but the obvious blood when PC Neil arrived, makes it very likely that Cross was the cause of Nichols' death.
Not saw, Paul and Lechmere clearly said it was too dark to see any blood.
Neil said he only saw the blood by using his lamp.
Why does it make it very likely? Did he have blood on him? Did he have a weapon? What was the motive? I am eager to understand based on what we know why he is deemed very likely? A suspect yes, but very likely?
PC Neil had a lamp, that's how he saw the blood.
100% it was a copper.
Compelling, but could the murderer have been interrupted and hid behind the adjacent doors, or even jumped over the wall into Brown’s stable yard?
Out of the two carmen it was Robert Paul.
At NO time was he EVER running late for work. His shift would have almost certainly started at 4 a.m. Why is he then "hurrying along" at 3.45 a.m. turning in to Buck's Row? Even by Robert Paul's time he's going to arrive 7 (YES, SEVEN!) minutes early for work. Again, why at this point is he hurrying along?
Ask yourself this, who would have been louder that morning. P.C. Thain walking his beat down Brady Street at his usual pace, whom P.C. Neil heard from Buck's Row, or Robert Paul "hurrying along" in his hob nail boots, whom Lechmere only heard from 30-40 yards away? If Lechmere hears him from 30-40 yards away, it's because that's where Robert Paul was 30-40 YARDS AWAY!
The dress had been pulled down by Robert Paul because he wished to continue mutilating. He took a risk that whoever he could hear in Brady Street would continue down to Whitechapel Road, however, Lechmere turned into Buck's Row. So Robert Paul hears someone in Brady Street, pulls Polly's dress back down over her abdomen and seeks his hideaway spot inside an entrance to one of the houses in Buck's Row approximately 30-40 yards away from Polly's body. He thought he knew who would be around at that time of night so that the coast would be clear, but didn't know there was a person who had recently moved in to the area that was running 10 minutes behind time (Lechmere).
The largest organ to be removed and to be carried was Chapman's, also I believe this to be the most daring of all the murders. His workplace / safe place was around 200 yards away from this murder.
By Robert Paul continuing to pull down Polly's dress it would have given him an excuse too should he have any blood on his hands. He has Lechmere as a witness to him touching Polly's dress. I can almost picture Robert Paul with his hands in his pockets at all times otherwise, especially while he was approaching Lechmere and passing Mizen.
Not sure where you get 7 minutes from.
From Paul's home to work is 1364 yards.
He leaves home at a fraction before 3.45 he claims, that gives him some 15 minutes to get to work
Walking at average walking speed of 3.1 mph it takes some 15 minutes 30 seconds.
At 4mph that takes him 11 minutes 39 seconds approx .
To do it in around 8-9 minutes he needs to be walking somewhere between 5-6 miles an hour, such is very fast walking.
And of course although his shift may have started at 4am( we actually just assume that, he doesn't tell us) he may well have been expected to actually start at that time, not just be on the premises.
@@stevenblomer7738 Hi Steven,
I don’t actually give Paul seven minutes. I’m being lenient to the Lechmere theorists and going by THEIR time (you know what they’re like). I asked Edward Stow for these times. I said if Robert turns into Buck’s Row at 3.45 a.m. and it takes him 1 minute to get to the body and then Robert Paul says it’s 4 minutes from the time he discovered the body to the time he met Mizen then that takes it to 3.50 a.m. I then asked Edward how long did it take Robert Paul from the corner of Old Montague Street at 3.50 a.m. to arrive at Corbet’s Court, Edward gave me an arrival time of 3.55 a.m. Edward said the whole incident of discovering the body and the brief encounter with Mizen would have set the the carmen back 2 minutes, therefore if there was no body to be found that morning Robert Paul would have arrived at 3.53 a.m. seven minutes before 4 a.m.
I actually believe Lechmere and the three P.C.’s times of 3.45 a.m. (Neil finds the body and alerts Thain and at that same time Mizen is talking to the carmen).
I believe Robert Paul actually arrived for work at 3.50 a.m. (at around the time Mizen would have arrived at the body and P.C. Neil) and left his house a lot earlier than he said, and by my time if there was no body to be found he would have arrived at 3.48 a.m!
Totally agree with you on walking pace, I challenged both Edward and Christer to demonstrate in a video how fast Lechmere would have had to have been walking when he parted ways with Paul at Corbet’s Court at 3.55 a.m. (according to Edward stow) to arrive at Pickford’s for 4 a.m.
In terms of shift times, HIGHLY likely it would have been a 4 a.m. start. People didn’t have accurate time pieces (that’s if they had one at all) so they would have gone by town clocks or in some of these cases brewery clocks. You’re not going to set a shift start time of 10 to, 5 to, it’d just be unworkable, you'd have people 3 minutes early, 2 minutes late etc... You would set it to on the hour or half past and at a push quarter to, quarter past.
Be it be on the premises or starting his shift I can’t think of a better excuse than “sorry I’m a couple of minutes late boss I had to report a potentially dead body I found on the way to work to a policeman”.
It seems to me that, had Lechmere been the ripper, he would have been holding a bloody knife. He wouldn’t have been able to hide it.
A friend of mine hid a 12 inch knife up his sleeve very well when i discouraged him from using it. I had been tipped off that he was out for trouble which is why i knew.
If Cross was the Ripper we would have to believe that mid mutilation Cross noticed Paul walking up Bucks Row and promptly stepped back into the middle of the street to pretend that he`d just seen the body.
Isn't that exactly what the killer would do? Would you still be standing over the body, or would you back up? Lechmere would have heard Paul coming before he would have seen him. He had plenty of time to cover the abdominal wounds. It makes perfect sense.
@@walkawaycat431 It does. What makes no sense at all is that another killer, preceding Lechmere, would get the hell out of Bucks Row once he heard Lechmere turning the corner up at Brady Street - but take the time to cover the wounds up before he fled!
Mizzen, Neil and Paul are your Rippers. Furthermore, they conspired to put Crossmere in the frame. Mind you, 75p in lost earnings ... I would be outraged.
Crossmere? Lechmere right? That’s ridiculous, however after the past 5-6 years or so and the crazy stuff that’s come out, maybe not as ridiculous as I would’ve once believed.
@@Dude0000 - No, adhering to a path of perfect symmetry is ridiculous. Sending a typist to hunt down a bear is ridiculous. Polling the insight of an estuary of plankton is ridiculous.
Queen Vicky did it!