DEBATE | Is Christianity Progressive? | Chalke vs Robinson | EP37
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 เม.ย. 2024
- Steve Chalke is a pastor, writer, and founder of Oasis Trust. Calvin Robinson is a priest, former GB News broadcaster, and now Lotus Eaters contributor.
Disagree with Steve or Calvin? Let us know in the comments!
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Edited by Aleksandr Popov.
Mr Chalke has led parts of the Evangelical church down a dangerous path as “his” gospel is not about the glorification of God but the glorification of man. His words are vacuous and not substantive. He builds his ministry on sand and not the sure foundation. The world loves the social gospel he holds out and Calvin brings the narrow path into view with his understanding of the scriptures which brings relief and comfort for the person that has found God to be unchanging and keeps his promises.
Heavenly Father, please continue to keep Calvin from the enemies snares as he holds out the gospel of Truth to this nation. Please God reveal to Steve the errors of his ways and lead him into the way everlasting. Amen.
100% agree.thank god for men like Calvin ,that are faithful to the word!
AMEN
No humility mr Chalke, I met you in Bermondsey in the mid 80s, you have not changed much...
Actually, you have described Mr Robinson there.
@@StudentDad-mc3pu
My comment was in context to my experience on meeting
Steve Chalke, back in 1984 in a baptist church. IN BERMONDSEY! MR student dad . Bless you mate, 🙏
I am not as right wing as Calvin politically, but he is faithful to scripture and his courage over the last few years has been contagious.
Same here.
I actually prefer Steve Chalke as a person, but he’s not a very good theologian.
@@christopherflux6254Mr Chalke is a blasphemer-criticising God's statutes & laws, "re evaluating" the scriptures, sneering at St Paul's stance on marriage, divorce & homosexuality 😥
I cld hardly believe what came out of his mouth.
About 30 yrs ago I twice saw Steve preaching/ teaching & he seemed to be a faithful, scripture adherent Christian, but now.....certainly not. Tragic.
Yes-he's a bold & faithful man of God
Scripture is not univocal on many topics.
Steve Chalke is not a Christian, he's churchianity
“If you marry the spirit of the age, you will be a widow in the next.” Calvin Robinson couldn’t have summarised things better.
Fulton Sheen quote
@@jenyoung2473 a good one 😊
Indeed. Paul would say to Steve that he has deserted his Spouse (Galatians 1:6)
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever. Hebrews 13v8
Yes he is: non- existent.
@@gweilospur5877 Totally agree!
Paul's letter to Timothy comes to mind having listened to Steve Chalke's response to the progressive question. This is most apt: I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (ESV)
'God has chilled out'
This man has no fear of God in his eyes.
When he said that I wanted to throw a brick at the tv! I can't remember when last, if ever I saw a "baptist" "Christian" minister speak like a lying, blaspheming serpent - for half an hour.
The awful thing is that the man has dozens of "academies" across the country - primary & secondary schools all driven with his theological heresy running like poison, integrated into the curriculum.
1000s of ppl being brainwashed & duped.
If he doesn't repent, his forked tongue will be shrivelling in the fire of hell.
I felt like throwing a brick at the tv when he said that!
Patronising towards Calvin, arrogant in his view of his father's viewpoint - albeit many decades ago, and the worst of all, totally blasphemous.
My gosh...When a person laughs in the face of God's wrath they are quite literally playing with fire.
Agreed. Being ok with nonsense in your church isn’t a good thing. It’s disrespectful and shows that you aren’t a serious person.
I wonder how he knows this?
Mark and avoid.. He is outside the church
What a great debate Calvin gets my vote he doesn’t waver from what the scriptures say plain and simple 😊
Robinson is just a cosplay cleric. His understanding of theology is non existant.
@@stephenmcbride4107 Example?
Steve Chalke actually used the dawahgandist script at points ... lost all respect for the man ... he is apostate
@@stephenmcbride4107 REALLY
@@malcolmlayton2050 Sorry to say you are right...blessings
Gotta love Calvin ❤ - I’ve never considered myself Christian nor have I ever attended church. Too many Steve’s for my liking… Calvin, on the other hand, speaks to me! I respect his unforgiving approach to the scriptures and always feel drawn to his teaching. What a wonderful man
God bless you Morris. May I ask have you ever asked God, if he’s real?
Truth is powerful, if we let it be so.
Bc you know the truth & Calvin speaks it but when you ask Jesus Christ to reveal himself to you he will, & you will realise the truth is literally Jesus Christ ❤
I pray one day you will ask him ✊🏽
It is interesting to read your connection to the truth of the Bible, but have found it difficult to take his next step of faith. I pray that you take the path that Jesus has always planned for you, so you can receive what God has for you to receive.
God bless you.
I am speechless Fr. Calvin! Thank you for Not
allowing Steve to get away with his definition of Christianity. His progressive opinions
must certainly break the heart of our
Precious Savior.😭 Though true
believers are in a spiritual battle and
the road to Life is narrow, our Beloved
Jesus will bring us through if we
remain in His Truth and do not waver
from His unchanging Word. I attend a
Baptist church, and I’m shocked to
hear Steve say he is a Baptist! I would
never call myself a Baptist
or even a Christ follower if I
held his heretical views. My
God is the same yesterday,
today, and forever!🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thanks for engaging 👌
Yes indeed...Chalke basically criticised God's institutions, laws & His wrath.
That man's poison & leading ppl straight to hell.
His patronising attitude that he had studied the scriptures in a "deep" & "scholarly" manner.
It spoke volumes that Calvin didn't mention his own wonderful, deep, scholarly studies, conducted in a reverent manner.
I suppose that these scriptures no longer apply to Chalke & his satanic minions:
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men,
leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.:
Romans 1:21-27 ( KJV)
and:
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.”
1 Corinthians 3:9
And he calls himself a baptist minister!
That man has created/is creating a path of fire & dragging 1000s with him. 😥😡🙏✝️
@@creedandculture churches like oasis...... are a blight on the canon of scripture thank you Clavin
The man is not a Christian!
@@MichelleStaunton-ob3pj Says who ?
So sad to see what's happened to Steve Chalke. In the early years after my conversion in 1984 I regularly attended Spring Harvest where Steve taught, and he was very influential and much admired by me. There are so many false teachers around now and it's tragic how many people are being led astray by them. Calvin, you win this debate and I thank God for you. I truly pray Steve comes to repentance.
Yes, me too. Such a shame.
Man, spring harvest. So many memories!
I agree. I looked up to Steve Chalke for his great teaching. Unfortunately he has gone totally the other way now.
Calvin conveys Biblical truh
Well done Calvin for standing for Biblical truth.
The Bible is an old book of mythology written by ignorant men.
'Biblical truth' is an oxymoron.
He wasn't though. If you listen carefullly he was defending the tradition of the church (the catholic understanding) as the ultimate authority and arguing againat protestant sola scripture.
Lol Calvin described as "Former GB News broadcaster", his rating was so bad they got rid of him!
It's time the different churches he's been in got rid of him!
Well done Calvin 🙏
If I could give Steve Chalke one piece of advice, I would suggest every single day getting on his knees, praying to his creator one very simple prayer: "Lord, if I'm wrong about my interpretation, please redirect me".
My guess is he has never once done this with a genuine heart, because I don't see how the Spirit could have legitimately led him into such error...
Yes-I agree 100%
What comes to my mind, regarding Steve Chalke, is that like Samson, he doesn't realise that the Holy Spirit has departed. 😢 He must repent, seek God's forgiveness and turn from his wicked ways!
@@heathervarney5706 Yes! That's a very fitting analogy Heather!
Agreed!
I must admit, I'm shocked with Steve Chalkes comments about same sex marriage. You cannot change God's natural order of things, if you do so it'll be a disaster for your life now and for your eternity.
100% agree with you.
@@nickybaker1338 Chalke is following the god of his own imagination and not the God of Scripture.
@@MyNov09 It's dreadful-he's leading 1000s onto the wide, easy path.
Anyone that sneers at even a speck of God's Word is teetering on the brink of hell.....he's either forgotten, or never had a notion of the awesomeness of God Almighty & he certainly seems to be arrogantly blase of His righteous wrath. 🔥
19th min Calvin breaks through into TRUTH .... that was the HOLY SPIRIT speaking confirming His Word. Thank you
It's sad to see S Chalke end up where he is. There was a time he was so refreshing and vibrant. Not any more.
Thank you Calvin .
This makes me even more thankful for the gospel - Gods Gospel not Steve Chalks version (romans chapter 1 v 1)
Calvin is right
Steve is misguided. Yes we seek to be changed & progress in our spiritual walk - but only because we were afar off God's standards & we're seeking to be changed to conform to God's UNCHANGING standard!
As soon as I heard Steve promoting divorce as acceptable, the alarm bells started ringing. Calvin spoke the Word and soon put that right. Thank you Calvin.
Divorce is acceptable in cases of adultery or abusive behaviour, particularly physical and sexual.
@wolves201 Not sure about the abusive behaviour bit. "Abuse" can be anything from not saying hello to the worst. Divorce abuse claims increased exponentially when legal aid was removed for ever other reason.
@@davidwood4374 Fair point. I’m referring to what we now call domestic abuse/violence. Under this umbrella I would include controlling and coercive behaviour that has significantly degrades the emotional, mental and physical health of the victim. Where the victim is suffering physical and sexual abuse and/or where one partner is abusing their children these are criminal offences and divorce is a legitimate course of action.
@wolves201 I'm still not convinced it is. If two people can spend years getting to know each other in preparation for marriage and becoming one spiritual flesh whilst swearing to G'd "for better or worse". Breaking / killing that spiritual union is no small thing. The reality is that most fall out of love, are desperate for a new life and fabricate arguments and stories to exit. But, there are also many that are enduring horrific events and they need to get to safety. I believe many who remarry cause that new partner to commit adultery with themselves. How does one repent from an ongoing relationship or marriage? Adulterers will not inherit the kingdom. Many have been deceived and the Bible says will lose their salvation.
@@davidwood4374 There are certainly those who look to demonise their marriage partners to justify a split and divorce, I agree. Christians are no exception to this kind of skullduggery. However the stats and evidence is clear regarding the amount of marital abuse that goes on, and is surprisingly prevalent in Christian marriages. Over 30% of murders on women are domestic related and is a big reason why victimless crimes were introduced whereby police can arrest and charge the abusive partner without the victims consent.
I know a lady who finally divorced her husband this year after years of controlling and abusive behaviour, resulting in him attacking her, threatening her with an axe and raping her. He was released from prison a few months ago after serving three years. He was arrested, charged and jailed under the victimless crime guidelines.
Then there is the so called Eileen Grey affair in America. She left her husband because of his abusive behaviour towards her and her children. She refused the counsel of her pastor John MaCarthur and his senior leaders to submit to her husband and was subsequently publicly shamed from the pulpit by MaCarthur, who even questioned if she was a Christian. Her husband was later jailed for up to 21 years for child abuse. Her case is used to highlight the abuse that goes on in Christian marriages and how leaders of some churches are facilitating this abuse.
On the marriage subject when Steve got very agitated he said 'I dont want to deny 2 men or 2 women the option of getting married if theyre in love ' That clinched it for me, his whole attitude... as believer's we are called to deny ourselves pick up our cross and follow jesus. He should be teaching these gay couples how to deny themsleves for Christ not to give into sin and indulge the flesh.
Amen.🙏🙏🙏
Mr. Chalke ended up throwing the Bible under the bus. He's quite arrogant.
The church might teach different thing but the word of God never changes . The church is not the authority , God is , stick with the word of God pray the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth , and keep your eyes in him . Friendship with the world is enmity with God . We as Christian’s are not to compromise with the worlds values .
Exactly.
Amen!
Calvin Robinson is a breath of fresh air. God bless him ❤
Steve Chalk knew he was losing the argument towards the end and that's why he started insulting and smirking.
Steve Chalke is progressive, progressively apostate.
And progressively heretical!
When I was a teenager in Northern Ireland, there was some big Christian conference for young people (It was in St Patricks Church Hall in Coleraine if anyone is interested in detail)... Steve Chalk was one of the main speakers. Now the context is a little blurry but, one of the cool activities that we did was to watch some short clips from contemporary films, and it was all very "cool" and "progressive". The audience got to choose which clip they would watch in the next segment... I have no idea how it happened but by a vote the audience chose a clip and the clip was played. What then came on the screen can only be described as soft pornography ... I think it was a music video, but there was more half naked female flesh on screen than I had ever witnessed before as a teenage lad. Don't get me wrong, I thought it was great at the time... but thats the problem. There was nothing Christian about it, nothing at all... and there was zero context either. I think some kind of apology was made, but the damage was done. This was the crowning moment of that conference. I don't remember anything else at all actually... just soft porn. Congratulations, this is where "progressive" Christianity gets you. It's time we throw "progressive" Christianity in the bin and get back to... Christian, Christianity! I am now 42 years old, have tattoos, have toured Eurpope in a van in a progressive rock band... and guess what. I am coming back to the true heart of Christianity. And it is not "Progressive". It is steadfast, pure, unadulterated and by modern standards maybe not very cool or exciting. But the truth doesn't have to be... it just has to be true. Surrender to the will of God. Surrender to Christ. I tried everything else in the book and it does nothing for you... and I certainly do not trust Steve Chalks opinion on what is good or progressive Christianity. He is almost single handedly to blame for my first overtly sexual visual experiences.. up until that point my parents had done a great job of shielding me. Needless to say, after that conference I didn't seek out the word of God... I sought out more sexual imagery. Go figure
Chalke is an old lefty and therefore has unsurprisingly ‘liberal’ views on faith. Or as I like to say, ‘ a lightweight’.
Steve is also slippery and dishonest like a lefty. I'm paraphrasing underneath.
Calvin rightly accused Steve of emotional blackmail when he said he doesn't want to see people of the same sex self harm because they can't get married. Afterwards Calvin said if two men can get married then why not three men. Maybe Steve was right not to agree with the snowball effect but he was then deffinitely wrong to accuse Calvin of being obsessed with sex when Steve himself had literally just been speaking of same sex marriage.
Being lefty is not a sin.
@@dooypages No it isn't but being dishonest is.
Steve misinterprets the Word. Statement after statement he gets wrong. His whole argument stands on misinterpretation of the Word.
Chalke- “I think..My opinion is…what this means to me….”
Robinson- “The Bible teaches…God says…The Lord’s attitude towards this is…”
1-0 to Robinson.
Pray for Steve Chalke.
Oh dear!! What will Steve say to Our Lord on judgement day? I hope he repents. He is leading many people astray.
Probably hello, will you get a chance to say that ? are you sure ? 😀
What will Steve say to Our Lord on judgement day? Steve Chalk " What do you mean away from me, you need to be progressive!"
Marriage is between one man and one woman, end of. We have some differing doctrines across denominational lines but what marriage is and for whom it is decreed is clear and leaves no room for doubt. Fr. C is right, Steve kept on referencing his own interpretations and as such is walking and teaching on very tretcherous ground. The bible says that no scripture is of private interpretation. Even in the age of Holy Spirit revelation, the Holy Spirit would never teach this herecy! Marriage is the union of a man and a women who are open to being blessed with children. Two men and two women cannot procreate!
You've clearly never read the Bible then!!
100% Chalke's a prime example of 1 Corinthians 3:19:
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God. As the Scriptures say, “He traps the wise in the snare of their own cleverness.”
And:
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient"
Romans 1:22-27
Satan's very pleased with Mr Chalke...😢😡
So what about David’s multiple wives and concubines? Single wives were not an ancient reality
I like the clear & to the point way Calvin speaks. Helpful perspective.
Mr robinson...you are spot on blessings brother
Thank God Jesus didn't hand everything over to scholars and theologians when he was finished here on earth.
You remind me of Orwell's quote: 'There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.'
Well done, Calvin. More Catholic than the Pope. Much more Catholic, in fact! Just as well you are not under the jurisdiction of “Francis the Merciful” - he would act swiftly to “cancel” you. As for the Archbishop of Canterbury - if he accidentally stumbled upon this video he would, doubtless, have a fit of apoplexy and expire on the spot - he thought that his minions had cancelled you.
I wonder how Steve makes the distinction between the teachings of Christ and the affectations of society. Is it possible to take the Bible too literally? Possibly. Is it possible to disregard it due to movements in societal views? Definitely. Steve is all about his own views. Father Calvin Robbins is all about the teachings of Christ. I think the Christ-ian here is clear.
Definitely agree Steve takes having our own views of scripture way to far. Calvin was right to point out that we should do what is good not what is nice.
@edam I would argue that not taking The Bible literally is the problem of people who don’t take it literally.
The Bible is either God’s word, or it’s not, and if it is, then you’d take it seriously. But if it isn’t, you won’t.
The problem would never be in taking The Bible literally - as it’s God’s word, and we should - but NOT UNDERSTANDING God’s word, and all that it teaches us to live by in obedience to God & His commandments, and we need the Holy Spirit in order to do that (see 1 Corinthians 2 KJV).
@@dscampbellsYes! 100% literal biblical faith, or worthless, no true faith at all.
@@nickybaker1338 Amen Nicky!
Steve, you are sending people to hell. Ask the Lord to open your spiritual eyes, and ask the Lord to show you the truth.
"Gods chilled out" is a wild blasphemous statement
I would Ask Steve how he defines love. Is love about enabling or correcting? Does love say leave people as they are or call them to repentance. Steve gets a lot wrong. Peter baptizing Cornelius. Cornelius was called by God to conversion, so he converted, leaving his Roman way of life, and so Peter baptized him. While Christianity is for all, there are rules to it. We are all called to repentance. What I hear is a lot from Steve, is "I like to think, I see this, I, I , I." Sounds like he relies on himself and his understanding.
Shocking Chalke!
JESUS bless you Mr. Calvin
I remember listening to Steve Chalke over the years at Spring Harvest and learning so much from him. Then suddenly he seemed to change direction and, I believe, has fallen into error. Scripture is our ultimate authority but sadly Steve is adding more than a tittle and a jot.
Calvin any day! Not agreed with Steve Chalke for decades
Steve Chalke was a gifted a Baptist youth leader. It was a shame he came to fancy himself as a theologian as he is out of his depth.
100%- it's tragic & he's dragging 1000s of ppl down to hell with him 😢
@@nickybaker1338 Theologians don't become children of God and go to be with Jesus. Only those who are born of God. There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit in either Roman Catholicism, Baptist churches and many others. They are just 'churches' without the Holy Spirit! Deceived. Wake up England!
A gifted charlatan and impressionist. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
Totally out of his depth. Couldn't form a cohesive argument from the Bible at all ....only using irrelevant historical social attitudes as if they equate to scripture.
One speaks the truth as grounded in scripture; the other grounds his truth as he wants it to be, which is the definition of heresy as stated by the apostle Paul.
Mr Chalke is PRECISELY the type of person (false teacher) that scripture warns us about ,over, and over, and over, and over again! He's brazenly "facilitating" people's disgusting sin and potentially taking them with him into eternal darkness - WOE TO HIM!! It's actually difficult listening to those who subvert truth and mock God's word like this!
100% Correct...Well said....i knew Steve Chalk was a heritic from way back in the 1980,s He seems to have got worse as the years have 'progressed' A false teacher and a wolf in sheep's clothing!
Yes is correct,Agreed.
You’ve just demonstrated that you don’t have any understanding of what Jesus taught. It’s militant lunatics like Calvin and the evangelical right that make me despair for the future of democratic civilisation
Your comment lacks any moral or intellectual integrity. It’s the sort of comment that makes me disparity for the future of democratic civilisation
Well done Calvin. We need more people with sound theology to debate this heretic openly.
I'm afraid Chalke is full of vanity in believing that he is able to determine by his own intellect which part of Christianity is correct and which should be abandoned or altered. He is unable to cite any supportive tradition to back up his views because I suspect he has never read the Church Fathers. This is very dangerous theologically.
Are we not required to use our intellect and powers of discernment?
Steve Chalke:
I...
I...
I...
Bravo, Fr. Calvin.
Chalke is Disingenuous to suggest the road names are slavery linked. The Black Boy road is considered to be named after a pub (named after nickname for some King or whatever), similar story with Whiteladies road, though given the history of the City … but still I think wrong to imply the naming choice was definitely racist.
Whiteladies Road was named after the Nunnery there (They wore white)
Black boy hill was named after Charles the first I believe (Nicknamed the Black Boy)
"We are not trying to alter Christ" says Steve who wrote a book entitled the 'Lost Message of Jesus" which did precisely that. Steve also lies when he says the New Testament believed in slavery.....
Steve Chalk renounced Christ and serves the world
Also, it’s interesting to me that Steve refers to Jesus as our ‘North Star’ and ‘Guiding light’. This sounds remarkably like new age language and I would really want to ask Steve about who he believes Jesus to be. This isn’t, fundamentally, about having a guide through life who can make us better. This is about recognising our sinfulness before a Holy God and that our only hope of salvation lies in Jesus Christ. I haven’t heard any of this gospel message from Mr Chalke.
The North Star is also a Freemasonry symbol- wouldn’t surprise me if he was a member.
Calvin has my vote as always 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Calvin is clearly in the right on every point. Well done him! I fear for Steve and urge him to think again. If love is the only qualification for marriage, why not let two brothers marry each other, or a man and his dog?
I disagree with Calvin on one point, but that’s because he has an Anglo-Catholic understanding of the term ‘Priest’ and I have an evangelical understanding. For him a Priest is a clerical role relevant to the modern church. Whereas I believe the Priesthood as a clerical role ended with the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 70 AD. Now we have the Priesthood of All Believers, so basically all Christians are Priests, which would include women. So we do have women Priests. Millions of them. Whether we should have women pastors or elders is a different matter.
I love and respect Father Calvin, but as a Baptist Protestant I do not think there is " Sacred Tradition", there is only the revealed Word of God in Sacred Scripture. I love the big C churches very much, but in the Dogma of atonement and justification they are in grave error.
Calvin sounds just like the Islamists, twisting words to make them fit the ancient outdated interpretation of the Bible. They take a possible interpretation & then pretend that is the only way, like robots they repeat the mantra with no understanding. Thus they make life miserable, by making it all about sin & not joy. Christ meant life to be joyful not dreadful. Calvin has the purest arrogant pride that his way is the only way, but he doesn't think for himself but through indoctrination.
Robinson 1 - Chalke 0
I think the comments from the majority below speak for themselves. I just pray that people don't fall into the same trap of false teaching
Robinson💯 chalkie ⭕️
Damn, that's some false teacher if I ever saw one. (Not Calvin, evidently.)
Yes agree! Deluded individual
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. Indeed!
It seems that sadly Steve is going down a very dangerous road. "I marry gay men" as just one example. I had no idea he had gone so far astray. Steve, if you are reading this, read your bible. I am praying that God will open your eyes.
Very disappointing from mr chalke
The problem with Steve Chalke’s viewpoint is, where does this compassionate reinterpretation end? As an example. Sweden has quietly moved back from trans ideology, having been one of the pioneers. One of the mutations of this having been a man attempting to breast feed a baby (Ragnar Bengtsson). This is the problem when you divert from scripture. You meander with all good intentions, into a place of utter darkness.
Steve calls G'd's word "weazel words" and he was wrong on nearly every point. Is he saved? Was he ever saved or gave up the true faith and led into apostasy? Maybe just never got born again?
He's so far up his own backside he can't see the wood for the trees. Tragic.
Where does he call it that?
Looks like Steve chalke has lost the plot .how sad! Sadly so many preachers and churches have gone this way!
Steve is making it personal. He is militant in attitude. Marriage between two men, is he off his holy rocker?
Chalke and Cheese. I'll stick with the cheese please.
An excellent debate! There's no question that if I am on any one side of the debate, I'm with Calvin.
I have been a Christian for 47 of my 74 years; and I found that, although I would be known in my church circles as ultra-orthodox in matters of faith - the "I believes" . . - and essentially evangelical in my perspective on the authority of scripture, there were aspects of Steve's arguments with which I sympathised. However, any points of sympathy were not in the areas that Steve kept talking about. He accused Calvin of being shallow in his arguments about authority. But ultimately Steve's were the more shallow because, as Calvin rightly pointed out, they were constantly based on the principles of private revelation - me, me and me - with the power of worldly culture lurking and driving things along.
The weakest aspect of Calvin's arguments were when he kept referring to the "big 'c' church". They were weak not because he is wrong, but because he did not rebut the straw-man arguments that Steve kept raising. For example, the differences between the Samuel and Chronicles accounts of David, where the idea of taking a census is attributed both to God (Samuel) and to Satan (Chronicles) are not contradictory. Satan is the deceiver; and as the mysterious, sinister, thought-provoking, first two chapters of Job make clear, Satan operates because God allows him the liberty to do so. So there's no easy answer to the "contradiction" that Steve mentioned. But there and in other places, I do wish that Calvin had not simply resorted to the authority of the church and tradition. It's a kind of closed-door mode of argument that is ultimately weaker than is pointing out the flaws in the straw-man. And it's weaker because Steve does not share the presuppositions on which it is based.
So ultimately I respond well to Steve's loving spirit. But I find that his mode of thought and of Bible reading leads him into areas that are more than erroneous - they are verging on the heretical. Although I don't agree with everything Calvin says, I find that his general position is indubitably the stronger one in that it is inherently more capable of building up the church as the body of Christ - a body that is not about ourselves, about our bodies, and about self-fulfillment, but rather a body of many members growing into the image of Christ. Until He returns!! Thank you!
people who don't wish to be changed by God seek to change who God is.
Well done Calvin. Steve Chalke once believed the truth but he has lost his way. I pray he repents and return to God's truth. 🙏
Calvin summed it up "this is the gospel according to Steve Chalke" if you don't follow the word of God, how can you obey him. You can work tirelessly in a church but if you're not obeying God it is for nothing. I think as christians we need to study Daniel and how he approched living in a Godless society, he didn't progress, he stood fast to the scriptures and with much prayer lived as holy a life as a sinful human can.
Bravo Calvin! Calvin is correct and faithful to The Word of God.
Felt at the end that Chalke wanted a cheap ad hominem, with the ‘which part of the church are you in now’.
He may have a point to make, but I felt the comment up front was a little snide.
And the cosplay cleric wasn't trying to get ad hominems in?!!!
Thank you Father Calvin for teaching GODS HOLY TRUTH. ✝️🛐✝️🛐
Christianity taught "Call no man Father"
@@slender6990 Didn't someone in the New Testament tell a story about a man who cried out "Father Abraham"? Was that wrong?
Was Stephen wrong to refer to the people as "Brother and Fathers"?
@@davidgilchrist2255 Stephen never called out Fathers. Yes, when Mashiach told the parable of Lazarus and the rich man
Steve Chalke's exegesis of scripture is terrifying. May God open his eyes to his error and draw him to the truth
Chalke lost it when he claimed the traditional understanding of the death of Jesus on the cross amounted to child abuse. This showed he had no real understanding of God, or the Son's purpose in becoming a human being. In the 80s and 90s he set himself up as some sort of theological adviser, but he's more a social worker with some religious trimmings.
He's now saying that Christianity is 'progressive' because during the early church Gentiles were welcomed as well as Jews. Well yes, but it is obvious from the Old Testament that this was ALWAYS God's intention. Salvation would come from the Jews, but it wasnt going to end there. Perhaps Chalke should read more OT.
He then says that just as the early church welcomed Gentiles, it should continue this 'progression' by accepting gay sexual relations as good. He says he has strong theological reasons for that, including his understanding of Romans, but anyone objective could easily show he is wrong. Id suggest he reads some of the books by Preston Sprinkle which looks at those arguments, and others, eg 'People to be Loved'. Ive yet to see a persuasive argument in favour of Christians accepting gay sex as good in God's eyes. Sadly people like Chalke are leading many astray, and going against Christ. But he is so deluded he doesnt think that.
Steve made some great points - that we are all more progressive than we think so be careful that we’re not cherry picking. However, I’m with Calvin - it’s not up to us to create our own personal gospels and the spirit of the age does just that.
Isn’t Steve’s central point that down through the ages people (it was a more select group of people for a long time) were effectively making their own gospels - evidenced by the way various interpretations have changed over time…for whatever reasons?
OK, his is are more radical steps than most - but the principle is surely the same?
@@Optimser Yep that was part of the point he was making - hence his challenge back to Calvin that all of us are likely more progressive than we think we are. But Calvin is right - you can't just create interpretations based on nothing (hence the comments around hermeneutics).
@@Rachelebanham I think the progressive position would be that there is a constant developing process of understanding, perhaps even enlightenment, going on - as society evolves, which we need to allow ourselves to be part of…as all prophets, perhaps - were part of?
That said - it certainly doesn’t mean that the emergence of every trend will be correct, at all!
Each new concept ought to have very careful consideration…so that we are all probably a mix of conservative and progressive ideas!
@@Optimser yes generally. But what we've seen since the enlightenment is an ever increasingly rapid consideration of radical ideas. On the one hand this could be considered a healthy symptom as millions are more engaged in meaningful dialog and are better educated. However, the downside is that within that - as you say - not every idea and culture is equal. Some ideas are bad, some cultures are just bad. So too often recently we throw out traditions far too soon for the sake of "progress" when actually those traditions had sound theological basis. You can't just throw out heterosexual marriage or dilute the meaning of marriage without their being large consequences.
@@Rachelebanham Agree…in my experience I’ve not seen the church have any developed sense of debate. Have been out of things for a long time, actually…but is it really any different to what it was 30 years ago, I wonder?
Well done Calvin
At least Steve is honest that he doesn't use scripture as it was written... and so is easy enough to avoid his teachings
I remember hearing Steve preach, it so sad that he has become progressive.
I wouldn’t listen to a word of Steve chalke , I heard him speak at spring harvest years ago and was appalled to what he said. I haven’t been there since. Fr Calvin thank you for trying to correct this man !! We must pray for Steve before JESUS Christ returns.
As I get older, I discovered that a lot of the biblical teachers I once respected are actually far away from the word of God. This is a fine example with Steve.
Steve has fallen completely from his place of faith and I think it’s because he loves being on the television and is scared of standing for true biblical values for fear of losing the tv gigs - he uses the idea of progressive culture to justify breaking out of basic biblical morals it’s very sad to see and I genuinely fear for his soul
It's amazing the emotional appeals the Chalke makes. I think he has forgotten the scriptures that talk about buttering people up. "they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage." "I am changing every day". Self-praise is no recommendation. He is still the same Steve Chalke I remember 30 years ago. I would like him to spell out the mechanics of this change, so we can follow his example as his follows the example of Christ. Further, I wrestle with these things. So what? Wrestling and coming to an understanding of light and life are two different things. How has this guy ever had a platform?
When you adhere to the genuine article, there is no need to squirm and contort like Chalk has to here.
Quite obvious to anyone with an eye to see and an ear to hear who is the Christian and who is the anti Christ in this debate, Calvin speaks the Truth of and from Scripture.
❤Calvin
Chalk lost it years ago
Calvin wins.
The last time i heard Steve he was rolled out on the BBC who loved his views as a token Christian.
Thanks Calvin for as usual speaking the truth of the word of God boldly.
I dont care what Steve thinks , I want to know what the bible says.
Just listened on demand to your debate Calvin with Steve Chalke. I last commented on you (on Twitter) when it was just after your Oxford Uni debate. You got this so right, not only with the content of what you said, but with the debating skills you possess and deliver for putting over the case. Eg the way you don't draw back in increasing the tempo and intensity towards the end. I remember reading a book Steve wrote years ago called Sex Matters which I thought was really good, especially for young people. A few years later I heard him speak live atxa special church service and came away thinking I'd been listening to someone who sounded 'a bit manic'?! Then when I came across him again I realised that what he was now saying was completely unbiblical! Finally, on the slavery question, I can't remember the exact text, but Paul does say ecplicitly in 1 Corinthians to the slaves there words to the affect that if youvcan get out of your slavery situation, get out of it! This doesn't seem to be a 'very well known verse', including to Steve Chalke, but shows that the apostle clearly is against the idea of slavery in itself. A big fan, keep up the good work. Blessings in Christ
Just LOVE your Background Fr. Calvin. All the things I love. Christ is King, Savoir and the Good Shepherd. ✝️♥️Victoria. C
I would have been heartened by some emphasis on the supreme importance of the Holy Spirit in the Christian life, who Jesus taught would come and help us.
This is the real issue. We are meant to be people of the Spirit. The scriptures are as much a gift of the Holy Spirit as the gifts of the Spirit listed in Corinthians. We need both to live as people of His kingdom.
I agree with Calvin on issues around marriage sexuality and on the centrality of the Bible in shaping our thinking and our morality etc. but not on his views of church.
Why can’t we keep our religion that we have been brought up with . As it was or as it is . To change causes complications and uncertainty !
Oh Steve Chalke! Who has bewitched you? You are preaching another gospel, and it’s a pity that you’ve submitted to the spirit of the age. You need to repent and return to Him who you first believed in.
Calvin, I’ve not even heard evangelical or pentecostal preachers defend the cross like you did. God bless you brother. Continue to stand on the truth of scripture
I’m going to be brutally honest. Steve is a tad arrogant and condescending at times suggesting his argument is weak and may require further analysis. All in all a great debate.
Steve needs to be reminded that Christianity is not a popularity contest.
Matthew‘s gospel did warn us about the Steve Chalkes of the world-Matt 24v11 “Many false prophets will arise, and will lead many astray”.
Chalke’s take on the gender identity ideology issue is that “To be trans is to enter a sacred journey of becoming whole”. When I put it to him there were 1000’s of detransitioners (and numbers are growing), people irrevocably harmed by this cult belief system and asked if he therefore considered them unholy/unwhole and on a journey to profanity, he didn’t answer.
This was several years ago, pre the Cass report. Some humility and profound repentance is in order.
Thank God for courageous men like Calvin who are prepared to be counted and uphold the truth of God’s word.
Calvin
With all respect to both speakers, one man is proud here and the other speaks with beautiful humility, the mark of Christ. God's blessing.
The nub of the difference in views and beliefs here goes back to Steve's statement right at the beginning that he doesn't believe in progressive revelation but rather in progressive understanding. Our knowledge of God does depend on God's revelation of himself through Scripture, Creation, History and supremely in Christ. Yes our understanding does develop as individuals but we need to understand that the revelation is true but our understanding comes through our study and discussion using our minds and with the help of the Holy Spirit, but our minds even as Christians are still tainted by sin, pride, rebellion and are deceitful. Steve seems to think that all progress is good. On what basis? Progress means just moving forward. We can move forward in the wrong direction!!
BY giving way to worldly values the church isn't growing. I'm with you Calvin. Repentance is necessary. The gospel message hasn't changed . Cannot rewrite God's word to fit the world views.