The fact that defending armies don't use castle walls as a line of defense in the show, and that Jon and Dany actually planned for the Dothraki horde to initiate an attack on the army of the dead with simple arakhs leaves no doubt that dumb and dumber are the worst writers in tv history.
@@bethaofhouseblackwood234 Jon Show is only dumb because D&D are dumb. It's why all of Robb's battles were off screen. No way could they competently write a proper battle.
She did not help anyone in the crypts when the Knight King raised the dead. She had a dragon glass dagger and she hid while people died around her. Danny picked up a sword and started fighting.
Lisa Marshall - Dany wasn't actually supposed to grab the sword and start fighting. That wasn't in the script but Emilia insisted. Sansa and Tyrion were supposed to come out with their daggers ready to fight but their scene was cut. You can see a bit of the footage in that episode's behind the scenes video.
@@KHH595 who gives a damn , she still fought with Drogon and killed more whites than any other person in this story, while sansa shit herself and hid like a pathetic coward that she is.
Typical Sansa Stan : But she sooo strong because she choose to become a cardboard box to be abused and used. How brave she is for choosing Jeffrey over her family. How loyal she is that she broke the oath she had given to keep Jon's identity a secret.
@Booper Dooper Even if you don't think she betrayed Jon during the BoB she absolutely just betrayed him by telling his secret. Also, there's no way the Northmen would let Littlefinger and the Vale dictate to them who they named King in the North.
I think the evidence is in this video. When she realized Jon was still alive she had to make another plan. Who knows, she might have been reluctant to carry it out, but it really seemed like she was very unhappy that Jon was still alive.
That's hilarious. Sansa never gets away with anything. Jon, Dany, Arya, Tyrion any fan fave can get away with literal murder and there'll be people justifying it, but Sansa tells a secret and there's hell to pay.
Im only 8 minutes in and all i keep thinking is thank god I'm not only one noticed how terrible she truly was. Making her Queen of the North was the grossest act of fan fiction ever.
I would have been fine if an asshole like baelish managed to win the game of thrones. Atleast he would have earned it. Sansa is neither smart nor wise, in order to be a queen. And the fact that D&D made everyone stupid, just to make her look smart, doesn't help at all either. Go check out Maulers channel, he just made a two and a half hour video, roasting Ep5 and explains in it as well why Sansa isn't not even the least bit smart. Just everyone around her turned stupid.
@@ottersirotten4290 Yea. Baelish philosophy, wasn't "rule through fear", like Cersei's. So i can't really tell, how he would rule a kingdom, if he was the one in charge. And it doesn't matter if baelish is cruel. Tywin was cruel as hell. And yet he was possible the best hand in the history of westeros. He kept the kingdom stable and running smoothly, for decades. So yea. Baelish could have potentially ruled a kingdom smoothly like Tywin did.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM Yep, Tywin, Baelish and maybe Roose Bolten were the right kind of cruel, theyre cruelty was always a means to an End and not the End in itself like it was the Case with Geoffrey and Ramsey who just were cruel for the Fun of it. Cerseis Problem imo wasnt the Aproach of ruling through Fear, her Problem was her rampant Stupidity
@@ottersirotten4290 Yea. I made a mistake there. Rule through fear was what Tywin had as well, and he did just fine. Cersei is indeed just a bloody idiot.
All them being terrible storytellers. Like nothing she does makes sense beyond the odd common sense line of "use boiled leather on that armor" "where we get the food?" and "shouldn't our wounded rest?" And even those make her look petty.
@@chandrawagner4061 I want book Sansa to become Ladyfinger: a female version of Littlefinger with the spirit of a wolf. The show is trying to do this, but they are half-assing it, so it's terrible.
@@nietzschesmoustache3585 agreed. I would love that character arc and you can see where their trying to make that, I just dont think their capable of devising littlefinger type plans without someone else making up the twist.
I can't believe Dumb and Dumber actually used Dany's lack of tears to Viserys' death (a brother whom had abused all her life and just threatened to cut her belly open and kill her unborn child) as "signs of madness" when Sansa was the one lacking empathy towards other people since the start, only caring about herself and her personal interests, a true daughter of Stoneheart, Cersei 2.0
Victoria but Viserys also ensured that she would survive; remember, he had to care for her while still being a child and they had to wander the free cities
@@michelmorio8026 Oh right, how could I forget, Viserys was such a good brother taking care of his little sister, that definitely excuses the abuse, it wasn't like he kept her alive so he could use her as broodmare (initially for himself, later for Khal Drogo) not at all, his intentions were completely pure and brotherly... note the sarcasm
Victoria yes, Turm my words in my mouth... I NEVER SAUD HE WAS A GOOD CARING BROTHER... you pointing out that he wasn‘t the one dimensional evil psycho everyone and the show seems to make out of him... he is quite a manyfaced interesting character, that of course treated Dany in the timeframe of the book like shit, but he wasn‘t always thst way towards her or she woulnd‘t have named one of her children after him!
If not for Nymeria , her little sister would've died. Showed no remorse and yet showrunners called Dany a villain for allowing her husband to kill her abusive brother who threatened to kill her unborn child. And she did gave Viserys chances,yet she's the mad one While Sansa's obsession with being a queen led to cost her family.....well...and still she ended up with a happy ending in show Dany bringing everything to defend the North and yet she's the MAD one She could've stayed in East or take the throne or whatever ,but she CHOSE to join the mankind and even fought in the battle, unlike hiding in crypts
"... unlike hiding in crypts" And Tyrion was fine with it despite being the very Charakter who EXPLAINED during Stannis Attack at KL that the Nobility is desperate needed near the Troops to raise Moral
@@janellejulianajoy They didn't explain where he was after Season 6. Was he at the Twins again, or Casterly Rock? Did Arya release him after killing the Freys, or was he rotting for who knows how long. Where were all the Tullys in Season 7 and 8, they just don't care.
@@luke8801 that sums up all my questions and their answers. Why? Not relevant apparently. It’s like The Office where Oscar tries to critique Michael Scott’s movie. “The analytical side of me wants to read deeper into the symbolism behind the imagery...but I know it has no meaning.”
Much as I've hated Sansa throughout the series, it simply is not true that she was angry that Joffrey married Margarey. Not only is there a scene where it seems clear she is laughing and somewhat crying in response to Joffrey being betrothed to Margarey, but Sansa specifically told Olenna and Margarey that Joffrey was a monster. It's one of the reasons, that pushed Olenna to poison Joffrey.
Not only this, but she actually laughs when she isnt being watched after the wedding. Marjorie knew that Joffrey was a monster and married him anyway. Then she and her grandmother killed Joffrey so she could marry Tommen.
5:55 she's actually pretending to be upset in that specific situation...when joff accepts margeary she acts upset but smiles almost laughs with glee when she walks away before littlefinger shows up...U may be right about other things but that's not true...
That might be a Sad laugh. I know at this point she hated Joeffry but it seems like she didn't hate him more than she loves being a queen. Right before this, the Hound proposed to bring her back to Winterfell but she refused. Then after knowing she won't marry Joffry anymore, Littlefinger gave her the opportunity to go to the vale, to which she agreed but refused later after finding she might get married to Loras and rule over Highgarden.
Later when Maergery and Joff do actually get married, she still shows jealousy that there is a new queen. She knows it would be awful but she would still be willing to go through with it and take the abuse just to be the queen.
@@Gwenhwyfar7 I don't know...I can't recall ever feeling like sansa wanted to be queen after they kill ned n she sees how horrible joff is...if she was ever upset it was cuz she was stuck there n about what they were doing to her family...she was very happy to marry loras Tyrell cuz she liked him but mostly to get out of kings landing...
Remember when Jon and Arya used to say, "Don't tell Sansa," about anything? Well, then, why did Jon forget this and included Sansa in the telling of his parentage under that weirwood tree? Either Jon has forgotten that Sansa cannot be trusted with secrets, or this is bad writing, or...or... I don't know.
I don't think that was in the show. I also think Jon wanted it to get out deep down. All he's ever wanted all his life was to NOT be a bastard. Also note he has Bran tell them for some reason.
@@lovescent46 We dont know what happens in the books, they haven't been finished yet. Sansa was just leaving the Vale when we saw her last in the books. Much could change.
I feel a lot more understanding for book Sansa despite her early on spoiled adolescent princess naivety & selfishness. TV show Sansa actually got worse over time in my mind.
@@rickyandreou I rooted for show Sansa because I thought she was the same as book sansa. I rooted for her until season 5 where it became clear that the show ruined her to the point of no return. I can't believe I defended her for so long.. The show screwed up big time on so many levels.
Season 7, episode 1: Good Queen Sansa wanted to punish the Umber and Karstark kids for "crimes" committed by their relatives . . . EXACTLY WHAT JOFFREY DID TO SANSA because of Robb!!!
Not remotely the same. Joffrey's punishment was personal. Sansa was simply following an established practice of disinheriting a disloyal family and she wanted to give their lordships to people who had supported Jon & Sansa. That's what you DO in a feudal society, and how you reward loyalty and punish disloyalty. The point is that the lords of the Last Hearth and the Karhold are supposed to be working for the Lord of Winterfell, who is a Stark. Those kids did nothing to earn the status of lord. They did nothing to prove their worthiness to man a castle and wield great power in the area. The only claim to that power and rank is because they were the children of lords. But those lords were traitors and murderers, who committed war crimes. Why should you get power and rank because you are the relative of a scumbag? House Karstark got started, because a man who was loyal to the King in the North defeated a rebel. The King rewarded him by making him a lord and letting him have a castle of his own. If his descendants can be lords and have a castle because of one ancestor's loyalty and heroics, they can also lose it, because of an ancestor's treason and crimes. Sansa was not imprisoning or scourging the Karstark & Umber kids for their fathers' crimes, she just wanted the power and responsibilities of those positions to pass from families that had failed in their duty, to people who had done their duty to the Starks. From children, whose competence was suspect, to adults who had proven their worth in the struggle against Ramsey. That's just basic, common sense politics.
Sansa looks down on commoners and Bastards alike. I still recall the disgust on her face when Daenerys made Gendry the lord of Storms End. She hates bastards and she got it from her mother. She even got heated with Jon after he took back Winterfell and wasn't doing exactly what she wanted. Despite losing her own home as a child, she advocated for Last Hearth and Karhold being stripped away from little Alice and Ned. She has no empathy and she won't make a good queen.
@@thecensoredmuscle563dude Cersei is a good character, she was supposed to be an antagonist and she did pretty well & she even called by her father that she's not as clever as she thinks. But, Sansa is literally evil but we are supposed to think and believe she's one of the good guys and cringe dialogues from Arya like "She's the smartest person I have ever met" arya literally met tywin Lannister (the mastermind)
Mike Armentrout - She was. They're misinterpreting her character. I'm not sure if it's intentional but they don't usually misinterpret other characters so badly.
@@KHH595 They seem to be switching some elements of Sansa's character from "book" to "show" and from "show" to "book". She LIKES Marg and feels sorry for the fact she will be marrying Joff. She also brings up the butchers boy in the meeting as an example of his cruelty.
Midgetwithahacksaw Agree. They also stated in the comments that she was jealous of Margaery during the wedding but I took it as her being miserable because she was being paraded out with her new imp husband and having to watch the whole spectacle going on with Joffrey as the cruel ring leader. Tyrion looked equally miserable. She definitely did not wish she were in Margaery's place. She looked as if she didn't want to be there at all.
Kevin Begley - I wish I could like your comment more than once. I realized last night that i hadnt actually watched very many of their videos so i viewed a few more before unsubscribing. The fact that these people claim they are "experts" on the books yet got it so wrong is embarassing. They knew the ending they wanted so they manipulated the actions and intentions of other characters to align with their preferred narrative. I don't even understand what they gain by bashing Sansa's character at this point. Hating just to be hateful, I suppose. I've been waiting years for the story to reveal this part of Dany but it's incredibly aggravating that people are still ignoring all the signs that lead up to this and are blaming bad writing. While the writers aren't up to par with George, they certainly did try to capture this side of Dany even from the beginning. It's always easier for people to blame someone else for their own failures though. Btw, I've seen your comments on other videos throughout the last year and always gave them a like. You were a beacon of hope that the entire fandom were not complete morons. Lol.
Boudicca I agree with you for the most part. However, I don’t think the development of Dany’s character was far from being well done. We did get a lot of foreshadowing and clues, but those are different from having your character naturally progress from point A to point B. The writing on the last few seasons of GoT was terrible, and so many characters/plot lines were sadly butchered.
UnholyCin The writers deliberately keep the actors in the dark. Nikolaj gave a recent interview how frustrating it was to act a scene without having any idea what the character’s motivation are. It’s like driving at night with your headlights off and it’s raining 🌧
@@Mr_Bones. I know, I'm sure the writers could give us an explanation. Though they did just give us 'Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet', so I doubt it would make sense.
hm i didn't know that sophie didn't know the motivation behind that. i just assumed that sansa was still in ptsd mode and decided to keep the vale card to herself because petyr is trying to pull her to the dark side. at the time, i thought of sansa as severely broken by petyr's manipulation. she's at her grayest after she ran away from ramsay and before she got petyr executed. i don't like the overall arc of season 5-8 but sansa isn't a bad character.
Agreed. Emilia Clarke was completely floored when she read the last season's scripts. She had no clue they were going to assassinate her character like this. It's a joke.
UnholyCin I think she probably just doesn’t want to say “D&D did that to try to make the battle better” All Sansa would have to do, in between her and jon going to different houses because they were outnumbered and telling Jon they should wait....was say “we might be able to get a strong army to back us up” The battle plans would be different from the start. If Jon still falls into a trap by Ramsay, well, you have more soldiers to try to make up for that mistake
Sansa has gotten away with this shit for so long. People always complained that it was 'mean' to criticize her when she was a child but her childhood behavior sets the tone for who she grows up into, and she is one of the most consistent characters on the show. Then people complained that she had been through so much so it was mean to criticize her -- even though EVERY character has been through trauma. It's a great thing to see her being called out for this shit. Dany, Cersei and even Arya are always criticized, their good and bad actions are laid out in exhaustive detail in the fandom, and in the show, they do get called out by other characters (especially Dany and Cersei). Sansa just gets away with shit and we're supposed to root for her endlessly.
5:30 It isn't true that Sansa was upset when Joffrey put her aside in favor of Margery. After the announcement, we can see Sansa walking away smiling when Littlefinger caught her and reminded her that just because Joffrey isn't marrying her, doesn't mean he'll stop abusing her. I agree with other points, but this point is just plainly false.
Yep that’s right. Another thing the video gets wrong is Sansa’s reaction to seeing Jon pursuing Ramsay after the battle of the bastards. The video claims she was disappointed to see Jon survived the battle, which is an extreme and unsupported interpretation. Most likely she was worried that Ramsay was luring Jon into yet another trap or that he (R) would manage to flee and eschew punishment.
@onimi I am not a die hard Sansa fan. I'm not a die hard fan of any of the characters (other than Theon & Cersei, because their actors are absolutely THE BEST). But when you are criticizing a character, at least used REAL things that happened, and not try and spin and twist things around to make your point.
She did look unhappy when she saw Jon though. I'll agree that they used the wrong photo to encapsulate this (the photo in the vid shows her worried that Jon will steal her revenge if anything) but watch her face closely. She ain't happy to see him. She even shifts her eyes downwards looking shady at. I used to be a Sansa fan but I couldn't get passed that whole Knights of the Vale nonsense.
Finally! I've been trying to tell people just how horrible Sansa is, but they just keep accusing me of being a Dany or Jon fan. Thank you for saying what I've been saying for a long long time!
When Sansa squirmed in her seat before basically telling bran “ I love you, BUT...”. I wanted to throw w brick at the screen 🤣. I was like “ you can’t be queen so your not gonna play anymore are ya! 🙄. Of course. Bonus points for Sophie for doing a great job tho .
Big mouth Stanka Snark bad mouths Dany who just saved her little snow fort from zombie apocalypse, before she did anything wrong. And broke her sworn oath to keep Jon's lineage a secret. All for what? To secure her own lemon cake kingdom all to herself?
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 She didn't drive any wedge between them. Dany did when she tried to demand Jon keep his own secret to himself. Dany was selfish and self serving and an up and coming tyrant. Sansa saw that because she's lived with tyrants for years. Varys knew exactly what he was doing and Dany already told him last season if he betrayed her, she'd roast him alive. So Dany putting blame on Sansa for something she promised to do to Varys long before she ever met Sansa was ridiculous and untrue.
If Dany didn't fight for the North, she would have been slaughtered later by the Night King. His army would have quadrupled in size, and her throne wouldn't mean shit
@@kumarcollins585 The NK wouldn't have knocked the wall down if Daenerys didn't go to save Jon because he wouldn't have gotten Viserion so the North would've been fine. All she did was catch everyone's shit after she helped anyway. However the throne doesn't mean anything now anyway since KL is nothing but ash and burnt brick.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 He would have gotten pass the wall eventually. Probably just found away to get around it. Remember in season 7, the Hound brought the wight around the wall via ship. He could have possibly had his army build a fleet in some years time.
I never liked Sansa. After her actions with the Arya/Joffrey situation, I was done with her. She had no honor or family allegiance. I honestly can't stand the constant praise she has gotten since Kingslanding. Hopefully George can find a way to make a character grow/change in a believable way.
Adrian Wyatt could be the reason I like her... at least no idealistic boring idiot like Jon or messianic-figure-to-rid-the-world-of-tyrants-by-actual-becoming-one-herself like Daenerys
Adaneth exactly ,all we’ve had to hear from how many characters is how smart she is , would be nice to actually see her doing something smart. And it drives me nuts that they use the word smart it’s too modern a word for the show , clever would be more appropriate, as opposed to oh my god she’s like the smartest person I know . & yes they’ve done aspects of her that are supposed to remind you of Catelyn & Cersei but with Catelyn I could still feel empathy, sympathy & cry for her , Sansa dosent evoke those emotions, Sansa has never seemed to love anyone but herself & not even that has been compelling. Even Cersei , you have moments of feeling for her ( Lena Headey is amazing ) with Robert , Tywin , etc but Sansa is just ... of course you don’t want to see bad things happen to her, I think the only time I felt truly was when she reunited with Jon the first time , ( she never seems to show that much emotion again toward him) & when Theon came back to fight for Winterfell
She may yet. Dany is really pissed Sansa shared Jon's secret with Tyrion. Who in turn told varys and no telling what becomes of the letters he sent. Will those Lord's show up at KL Sunday?
@@Kill-Dozer Wasn't HBO. D&D specifically said in an interview that HBO wanted the show to keep going and were willing to give them the money for it, but D&D said they were all done with it. (Meaning that **D&D** wanted to go make their Star Wars movies.)
I was telling my husband tonight before we watched the last episode, I thought Sansa sucked. She never did anything to help anyone but herself. She was good at playing the game but not an honorable character.
Much like Jack Gleason (Joffrey) who's also a real sweetie. In one interview, he effortlessly transforms into Joffrey and back, it's quite something to watch.
Sansa in the show was a girl kept in a bubble that was constantly told she was beautiful and become queen. She was a high born ruler in a culture of high born not giving a shit about low born. It like people forget that it a culture of high born and low born seen as less valuable. It why she had one of the most interesting character developments in the show. Sure though they seem like they couldn't decide D and D who they wanted her to be so she is like this limbo who has learnt from Littlefinger and Cersei very well.
Garden Rose she did. She told Ned's secret to Cersie causing him to captured and beheaded. She sided Joffrey over Arya causing Lady to die and Nymeria to be separated to her sister. And all of this because she wanted to be queen.
I know everyone tend to parallel Cersei and Daenerys, somehow, but I think Sansa fits that pattern better. Thinking about it, she's a little Cersei in the making. Of course, Sansa having a nurturing father figure like Ned for most of her life, who adored all of his children equally and them loved unconditionally, puts her in a better perspective when we think about how strict Tywin might have been with Cersei. Also, surely Robert with all his faults was certainly not half as cruel as Joffrey was. At least Sansa still clings to her childhood dreams of chivalry and courtesies, while Cersei is a woman grown and a cynic adult, but the two have very much in common, in my opinion.
I hate there’s this huge chance Sansa will be one of the few (maybe only?) character to get exactly what she wants. Lady of Winterfell, ruling the North.
Yeah. The writers Mary sued her ending as well. The northerners just forgot that Jon is there King. And the north gets to be independent by Bran without any objections from the other houses. She did nothing notable her entire arc, other than being bitchy at first. And then continuesly abused and tortured the entire show. And in the end. It is basically proven than she is just a combination of cersei and little finger. Well, not little finger so much though. Because even though the show tries to make her look smart. It fails miserably . They just made all the characters around her look dumb, so she could look kind of smart. That was a pathetic attempt from the show runners. Sansa is just a petty person like cersei. And she thinks is the smartest shit that ever walked in westeros. If the characters haven't been dumbed down. The. Sansa and her little scheme at the end to overthrow Danny would have failed. If that was Tyrion from seasons 1-4 . He could have easily see through Sansa's attempt to plot against Daenerys. He wouldn't be so stupid as to tell Vary's about Jon's parentage first. Because he knows that Vary's, even though he helped him escape, is not to be trusted with such a secret. He knows all to well that Vary's loyalty is with the realm and not his queen. Vary's has admitted it multiple times already, to him and Danny as well. So yea. Everything got completely trash, just for plot convenience.
Jon, Ghost, Bran, Tyrion, Bronn, Sansa, Tormund, Sam, Gilly, Pod, Brienne and the Hound get what they want. Arya and Grey Worm get what they deserve in that they'll soon be dead (nothing is West of Westeros and Naath is a death trap)
Late I know, but: Sansa as Queen of the North (queen of anything really) will end in disaster. She has no ability to rule or garner loyalty from vasals, she has learned only the most basic bitch tricks from Little Finger. I give her no more than 5 years on the throne before she has either a full blown rebellion on her hands with no allies or death by the hand of an assassin.
garden rose, cait didn't value family, she wished death upon jon snow, and ned didn't trust her enough to tell her the truth lol, so use logic next time...
@@username7735 lol how is Catelyn to blame for the Starks making bad moves? She was actually giving them advice that would've helped them the whole time: stop climbing, don't go south, don't send away Theon Greyjoy, think with head not with your dick, don't execute Rickard Karstark.
@@roseofthegarden_ Fiercely fight for her family?. You must be on drugs. Just watch the video carefully and stop being biased fan boy or girl or what ever someone is this days. Even from the beginning of the video, you see that her family comes secondary to her desires. You can like her all you want. Just as a lot of people like little finger. But don't try to whitewash her and make her look like another person with higher motives other than her personal agenda. Ok?.
OMG, I've been saying "Sansa isn't lil miss Innocent" FOREVER!!! I HATED Sansa!!! People criticized Dany for her missteps, but Sansa was NEVER held accountable for the sh!t she did!!!
Nietzsche's Moustache - It's like they're finding any excuse possible to insert old quotes even if it doesn't make sense narratively. Half the dialogue for season 8 is just repeating old lines.
@@KHH595 Tyrion and Varys talking about Eunuch jokes and Dwarf jokes for like the 4th or 5th time. And, Gendry: Marry me?!?!? Arya: It's not me. Theres probably others repeated lines but I dont remember. But dont forget them repeating the same lines/conversations all of season 8. Jon: "You're my Queennnn~~" Also Jon: "I dont want it. I never wanted it." Dany pointing out Tyrion's mistakes in every scene they have together. Varys and Tyrion talking about Jon and Dany and the true heir and marriage like 3 times.
@@KHH595 I'm convinced D&D know that's not good writing, so my guess is that they're hoping the audience will _mistake_ those callbacks for some kind of payoff.
That's because she ain't. The characters around her just turned 180 and became dumb as fuck. Only for her to look smart and awesome. The show is a joke. Let's just wait for the books to finish. I doubt GRR Martin would turn Tyrion to a complete idiot and let Sansa make a fool out of him. Assuming things will go down more or less the same that is. Which I doubt it.
Right?! The writers were trying to convince us that she’s become this mastermind manipulater, but she’s done absolutely nothing to show for, literally nothing besides that dumb LF plot line
What a nice family the poor Ned Stark raised, Rob enrolled all the North in his crusade to avenge his dad, but when he met a woman he liked, he forgot everything and everybody, even the deal that his mom went to make to help the cause, that decision caused his own death, his pregnant wife, all his men, the wolf, and his own mother, Sansa who was obsessed to be queen at any cost as we watched in this video and at the last episode we watched her doing the same things, she was the only one who had an argument against Bran taking the throne and after he accepted to be King she still had something to say and she openly told her own brother that the North people (meaning her) won't accept any other King, that could be caused that other members of the council tried to do the same thing, luckily for Bran D&D wanted to include the scene of Tyron fixing the chairs for the small council meeting and everybody went mute after her declaration. Arya who end up being a killer with no remorse whatsoever, Bran (Well, to me Bran died in the cave, and since then his body was a vessel to the three-eyed raven but everybody keeps referring to him as he is still the child, not the old man inside the tree) in that case that kid didn't care about Jon been exile when he was the true heir of the throne, Just saying.
I was just thinking last night, that I really like Sophie Turner as Sansa, and that she has blinded me to the fact that show Sansa does in fact just suck. She undermines and manipulates Jon and Tyrion even when it really isn't in her best interest to do so. Will watch this soon, just wanted to say YES to your title.
Same thing with Cersei. S8 Cersei has done nothing but smirk and look out the window, coasting on the gravitas Headey brought to the character for the first five season.
I'm still amazed how dumb Tyrion has become and I don't understand the conflict with Jon, how someone is going to prove he's the heir? the seven kingdoms is really big covering that much ground would take a lot and I doubt the south would follow Jon who is practically a foreigner too and since when the lords give a crap about right birth, is obvious the one with the dragons would get the support no matter what.
@@danielhiguita5511 The records of that guy who recorded Rhaegar and Lyanna's secret wedding. But Idk how they're gonna prove that Lyanna was even pregnant or that Jon is the child she gave birth to. Lol. But dont worry, Jon won't be King. If he is, its just as bad as the other possiblity that was revealed in the leaks that may or may not be true.
Sansa in the books DOES bring up the butchers boy to The Queen of Thorns and labels it as one of the reasons Joffery is not a nice person. This is done in her first Chapter in A Storm of Swords.
Midgetwithahacksaw Sansa is a more complex character in the books, just like every POV, even Catelyn and Cersei, personally I really like the darker gray characters.
@@ocandro I agreed with their analysis on Book Cat because it made sense. Here, I think they meant to analyze Show Sansa but the added in pieces from the books. This doesn't feel like a pure analysis based off the show. But rather a mix of both. Sansa in the books starts off as a bit of a brat but slowly changes. Her story is a very slow one. But one I like nonetheless.
@@midgetwthahacksaw Thiss, also I really feel book Sansa being a naive child who 'see's the world through rose tinted glasses' in book 1, is Catlyn and Ned's fault. We can blame Catlyn more as she pushes harder, regarding being a lady and raising Sansa to expect good things from the world, and to place inherent worth upon someone's station in life. In the first book Sansa and Arya equally try to save Ned from execution using the tools they've been taught thus far Arya wants to fight her way there directly and save him, while Sansa opts for appealing to the crown and throwing herself upon Joffrey and Cersei's mercy. Neither plan works, but the point is they both tried and failed. Those are the lessons and tools Sansa has available to her, in order to navigate through the world. Where Arya rebelled against those lessons from Catlyn and Septa Mordane, interacting with those beneath her, and essentially learning her own way. Sansa adhered to what she was taught, 'be pretty, be polite, don't associate with those beneath you, don't anger your future husband, courtesy is a ladies armour' these are the things Sansa knows. A parent is supposed to prepare their children to one day survive in the world, yet Catlyn and Ned let Sansa go on believing in fairy-tales and seeing the world as a harmless place for way too long. In my opinion they both kind of failed her in that regard.
Actually she did put a target on Jon's back by telling Tyrion and eventually everyone and she betrays Jon when she tells Tyrion. Shocker!! I absolutely can't stand Sansa from the very first episode and time did nothing to change my mind.
Remember when Little Finger first offered her escape from Kings Landing after all the horrible things she went through and her family? She was for it... Until she was offered a marriage that would let her rule highgarten. Then she was like "nah. Im good little finger."
Love this but you know the crappy excuse the sansa fans will use.... "But sansa was just a child" em so that's wht she didn't care of arya died... she only cared about herself and her direwolf at the time. She's always been sneaky. She cares for nobody other than herself and what she wants
Yes!! I have always said Sansa looked super disappointed that Jon survived the battle of the bastards. That look she gives when she sees him running after Ramsay. Clearly upset Jon is still living
Oh boy. Because surely she can't be looking upset about Ramsay (the man who beat and raped her repeatedly and locked her in a tower) still being alive! It's obviously because Jon (her _only known remaining relative_ left) is chasing her psycho husband instead of being dead! Nevermind she tried to warn him not to do anything foolish in order to protect him! 🤣🤣🤣 Nevermind that she has _zero motive_ for wanting Jon dead! She just-wants him gone for no reason at all! Seems legit.
@@roseofthegarden_ Oh and I guess NEVER MIND too that she couldn't shape her mouth to tell Jon that there was a reasonable possibility that the Vale's army was riding to join the fight. I think everyone would have been better served if she would have told Jon this bit of info instead of giving him vague warnings about how tricky Ramsey could be. Talk about burying the lead, LOL.
@@steelpookie7597 Except she didn't actually know that since she sent Littlefinger away before she made the call boo. And it's funny in the same breath ya'll trash Sansa for trusting Littlefinger, you then turn around and trash her again, for _not_ trusting him. Which is it? The man sold her to her enemies, and she ended up getting beaten and raped repeatedly, god forbid she doesn't trust this dude to help or _want_ to be indebted to a man who did this to her, but fuck her reasoning right? Fuck the fact that she said multiple times to Jon that they need more men and he was unwilling to make more effort to secure other houses because he thought it was pointless and the winter was coming. No, they would've been saved if Jon had followed his own battle plan, instead of falling into Ramsay's trap like an idiot, abandoning his plan and forcing his troops to follow him blindly into battle, thus making it necessary for the Vale to save him in the first place.
Garden Rose 😂😂 how often do I have to say how funny you guys are. But I’m glad y’all are consistent, blaming Jon for Sansa’s failure to speak, smh. How ridiculous is that? I don’t care if Jon went out and did cartwheels during the battle it still doesn’t excuse Sansa for not tell Jon about LF BEFORE the battle. It’s not a question of trusting LF, Jon needed to know. And it doesn’t matter what battle plan Jon implemented he should have been aware of the possibility that the forces of the Vale may be on its way. This is just basic common sense. Your general needs to know how many troops he has available to him BEFORE the fight 😂 omg. Not to mention the Wildlings likely didn’t recognize the KoV and in the excited state they were in they likely started attacking them when they came to the rescue. Had Jon known he could have at least made them aware of their flag & sigil. I like Jon but I’m more than willing to admit when he’s being clearly foolish like going after Ramsey especially once Rickon got hit by the arrows. Just stupid. But you Sansa fans can’t never admit when she’s clearly wrong and not telling the Jon about LF is clearly wrong. That’s not something that’s up for interpretation like judging Sansa’s facial expressions when she shows up with The KoV. Also, just a side note and I don’t know why I bother 😂😂but I’m bored at the moment so I’ll try. Can you Sansa fans just admit that Sansa was a complete MORON while being talked into going back to WF when the Bolton had control. That is truly one of my favorite scenes in them series. 😂😂😂😂 Watching the oh so great Sansa looking all badass with her new hair and outfit and then seeing her revert to a child like status when she realizes LF is taking her to WF. I know y’all love to go the victim route here and say she was sold but regardless of deal LF & the Boltons had on the side Sansa’s dumbass got talked into it. First she screams and moans about a hunger strike 😂😂 and then LF puts on his best voice and convinces that idiot that going to WF is in her best interest 😂😂 too funny. I wonder why that isn’t on any Sansa fan video, I mean this is when she’s learning how to be a snake in the grass, right? 🤣 I know it’s not in your DNA to admit when Sansa does something stupid, I mean naive 😂, but I thought I’d point that scene out to you. Well about to head out so I’ll respectfully read whatever twisted logic you shoot back in a reply, then I’ll likely laugh and just move on. Enjoy your day.
I TOTALLY agree! Sansa would be an awful Queen. She’s always been pitiless, unsympathetic, and revengeful. PERIOD. But the TV Show will ignore her character arch and crown her Queen. She is a student of Cersei and Little Finger whose lessons she exclaimed she would never forget. A true HORRIFYING ending.
I hate Show Sansa but do enjoy Book Sansa. Book Sansa is a tragic character and her actions make more sense due to her age. Aging Sansa up in the show makes her look petty. While those same actions make more sense when compared against her age in the books.
yeah i agree. i feel like the aging up affected the likability of most the older stark children. like that line jon tells tyrion at the end of their first meeting; "what do you know about being a bastard"? that line works a lot better for a 14 year old boy than it does for a 20 year old looking man. a 14 y/o boy isn't going to understand the nuances of what it means to be a dwarf in westeros, whereas a young man might have a better grasp on the world they're living in. it's one of the reasons i didn't like show jon at the start.
no. the video already mentioned about Arya being YOUNG, but not a stupid traitorous btch because of her age. Age is not an excuse for what Sansa did in the books. ... ..... "How well do I know that, child," Cersei said, her voice so kind and sweet. "Why else should you have come to me and told me of your father's plan to send you away from us if not for love?" "It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She had never done anything so willful before, and she would never have done it then if she hadn't loved Joffrey as much as she did. "He was going to take me back to Winterfell and marry me to some hedge knight, even though it was Joff I wanted. I told him, but he wouldn't listen." The King had been her last hope. The King could command Father to let her stay in King's Landing and marry Prince Joffrey, Sansa knew he could, but the King had always frightened her. He was loud and rough-voiced and drunk as often as not, and probably would have just send her back to Lord Eddard, if they even let her see him. So she went to the Queen instead, and poured out her heart, and Cersei had listened and thanked her sweetly... only then, Ser Arys had escorted her to the high room in Maegor's Holdfast and posted guards, and a few hours later, the fighting had begun outside.
@@Trustworthy_McLegitimate You do realize Sansa made a lot of her decisions because she was basically already arranged to marry Joffrey? That means the Lannisters were going to be her family. In the world of Westeros, once you're married off, you're basically split from your previous family. She was torn between staying loyal as a Stark and prioritizing her future relationships with the people she'd be seeing daily for the rest of her life. And in the end, she learned from her mistakes.
The Order of the Green Hand - She loathed Joffrey and she wasn't hiding it very well during the wedding. She looked like she wanted to be anywhere but there.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand She told Shae that she wanted Joffrey dead more than any other in the capital (season 2). And she begged Lady Olenna to not break the engagement between Margeary and Joffrey(season 3). So....
In the books too! On top of that she's terrified for Margaery and keeps thinking she can't let her marry that monster. Bonus: She has all those thoughts of how she wishes he would drink too much and break his neck or how she can't believe she ever found him attractive with his wormy lips.
Actually when they announced that he was going to marry her Sansa was excited! Don't you remember she turned around to walk away and started to laugh! She was excited she wasn't mad at all!
She was elated that Joffrey was marrying Margaery. Until Littlefinger scared the hell out of her and told her she would still be tortured. Joffrey would still never allow her to leave.
Tbh Idk how they interpreted that, "We have a new Queen" line as a sign that she wanted to be Joffrey's Queen or a Queen in general still. 🤣 To me it was more like mocking indifference. Like the girl was almost raped in Season 2 and she talks about how the men who attacked hated her and she had never done anything to them and Shae explained to her that the dogs in the Castle or something like that ate better than their children etc. And Sansa says that if she had food to feed them, she'd give it to them. I dont remember the rest of scene, but nonetheless this video is trying to paint Sansa like she's just crazy for a Crown and there's nothing else to her character. Like to me she just lived in a fantasy world of Prince Charmings, Knights and Songs so when Joffrey revealed himself to be anything but a Prince Charming, she tried to be blind to it for as long as possible until Ned literally lost his head and then she couldn't pretend anymore.
@@Lrodpotato That was one of the very few times that Sansa showed any empathy or caring toward others. She has been selfish since day one. Her "beloved Joffrey". Ugh *puke*. She wants to marry him and have his babies and they will be golden lions. When Ned wanted to send them home bc it wasn't safe, she had a fit (so did Arya). You're right though. She believed in fairy tales. But then she started playing the game of thrones....
@@hatindrama That's only because in the show she never really had the chance to be kind to anyone other than perhaps Ser Dontos Hollard and that's about it. I cant really think of any other situations where she was kind in the show but nonetheless the point I was trying to make is that considering how D&D write with utter disregard for the characters I doubt they even remember who Sansa was in season 1. In the books, she's still rather self-centered and naive but slowly changing even if it's an extremely slow change. 🙄 But I find her first few POV chapters hilarious tbh because how full of herself and obnoxious she is even tho I don't like her. 🤣 Edit: I guess she was technically nice to Shae in show as she grew to know her and opened up to her despite her being a servant/handsmaid. Idk if that counts for anything.
I'm really hoping Dany says screw the throne, I want revenge. Just hops on Drogon and flies to Winterfell and show Sansa what Drogon is really capable of doing to a castle.
With regard to the Battle of the Bastards, there's something I missed for a long time until pretty recently. Sansa never thought they would get Rickon back. She only used him as a tool to get Jon to do what she wanted him to do, when he was otherwise too traumatized to be motivated to fight. You've hit on a few similar things here (wrt her attitude towards Rickon), but not that one, so I thought I'd add it to the pile.
Everyone on show sucks now! Lol. Everyone. Tyrion is not smart anymore, Arya has thicc plot armour, Jon is dumb, Dany is mass murderer and so on. Only Cersei got better, more smarter in show.
Brij Manek cersei was not smarter, she got decision right that functioned in the small run, but nothing in the long run... and s lot of Luck and plot convenience so she remains an antagonist till the penultimate episode cause Lena Heady did a great job; don‘t think book Cersei will live that long or hold power that long
@@thefoodyjournal she is a complete bimbo. No Wonder Jaime ditched her, tywin ignored her and wanted to marry her off, while tyrion in the books dreams about killing her.
Whats more frustrating is that the show acts like she's so god damn smart and a brilliant tactician, but she doesnt really do much of anything. She didnt do jack shit for herself in kings landing, and didnt even try to aid any other conspiracies or anything. This is when characters like Littlefinger started talking about how smart she was, and it made zero sense. Because once again, Littlefinger did ALL the work to get her out of kings landinig and into the Vale, and he is the one got rid of Lysa, again, without any help from Sansa. Then she sits around doing nothing at the Boltons, sitting on her ass just like she did in kings landing, until Theon does all the work and helps her escape. Up to this point in the show Sansa has done no scheming, no planning, no strategizing, no fighting, and generally no decisive action of any kind on her own. But now suddenly that she's in Winterfell with Jon we're supposed to believe she's this brilliant aspiring ruler? Since fucking when? Now she's walking around giving advice to blacksmiths and knights, despite her never showing literally any interest or knowledge in such things EVEN ONCE before hand. Her only big moves are not telling Jon about the knights of the Vale for basically no reason at all, and killing Littlefinger, something that she never could have done without her brother who can see all past and future events. Calling that a good move is like praising a chess player for checkmating their opponent when all of their pieces are queens, its not impressive because of the staggering advantage she was gifted. And then at the end we're just supposed to expect that her being queen is gonna fly with everyone? Dorne didnt bend the knee to the Targaryens for a hundred years and they had fucking dragons, whats going to stop them from rebelling if the north gets to be free? Same goes for the Iron Islands. So congratulations Sansa, you just divided Westeros even worse than the war of the five fucking kings did. I hate the direction they took Sansa so god damn much.
Sansa has never set her sights on the Iron Throne. Her goal was to marry the prince and have his babies. She wanted to be a King's wife, not a ruler, and she dropped this dream back in Season 1 or early Season 2. All she wanted after this was her home. This is a mischaracterization.
Boudicca thank you for being one of the few persons which‘s Brain still works... but I get it, now that Dany sucks, Sansa needs a character assassination too Allmost all the accusations are made ups or misinterpretations of the scenes, like in a rigged trial in a third world corrupt state
Michèl Morio - I know, it's gotten so ridiculous. I've even seen people saying it is Sansa's fault that Dany destroyed KL. Sad to see even previously reputable content creators sinking to this level. I'm glad someone else has a mind of their own and hasn't joined in on the hive mind of Sansa hate. Cheers!
@@KHH595 Sansa is trash, she should of supported dany after she saved the north, instead sansa plotted to put Jon on the throne over her for no reason whatsoever. Ungreatfulness is a terrible human trait, she is an oath breaker.
The Moon Is Not Real I can‘t remember I asked your opinion... But apparently being ungrateful is worse kann killing tens or hundreds of thousands... you belong to the sort of people who 100% still find Stannis worse than Dany (show only) And like it of not, Jon (show only) HAS MORE claim than „Ms. I will take what is mine, with fire and blood, I will take it“
My opinion is that bad writing has tried to make her dark and cold, as a result of the hardship she has gone through (which is true, she is that), by having her make decisions that are in any case stupid. I mean she still could be a hard and cold character without hiding the existence of the Vale knights from Jon and let half of their army get killed... This thing did not make any sense! Like, don't you care about the people you are going to lose? Why not have them attack all together and be stronger? She said that Jon didn't ask her? Come on, that is the most idiotic thing ever! It looks like it was done only for the entry scene with Sansa having the I-told-you face on!
Λύντια Ντιτζ the Vale army thing made sense; it lured Ramsey out of the castle to fight this little army of Jon and then destroy most of Ramsey‘s army... but now, everyone is placing their armies in front of the castle walls and it‘s just bad writing
Thank you for posting this, I never understood people saying "but Sansa been through so much, she changed so much". The reality is, she never Changed. Yes, she got into bad things, but that's the same for all Starks, they all suffered terrible. Theres one great difference between Sansa and the other Starks though. They all suffered for doing the righteous things, caring more about others then their own good. Sansa however always suffered because she made terrible and selfish decisions not only resulting in her own pain, but also of her Family. A great example for this is actually not mentioned in the video: Ned gets beheaded because he cares about his daughter as she cares more about being princess. Yet when the surviving Starks meet, Sansa is the only one crying about what she's been through, like Aria, Bran and Jon were on Holiday... Especially Jon had to kill his own Men (including children...), see his love die and was actually killed by his own men... But yeah, Sansa is the only one who suffered... The one good thing about her is that she always stayed true to her character: a terrible and selfish person. RIP all good Characters that were either killed of or totally destroyed by writing.
I have never liked Sansa Stark and show Sansa was throwing shade at Dany 4 no reason. What about the North? Ends up as Queen of the North after manipulating Jon.
@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 Not to be too confrontational, but I feel compelled to point out that Blackfish was willing to sacrifice the peasants while Edmure was not. The Blackfish may be smarter, but Edmure did not lack for decency.
The thing is, that we all felt like we were supposed to like Sansa and sympathise with her because of her rape-storyline and we did. For one season maybe. Then she was back to being petty and manipulating people left and right. Congratulations, she manipulated her way to a very lonely and isolated top. Cersei would be proud.
Everything about her childhood can be explained through her upbringing. She was the perfect highborn lady and acted exactly like she was expected to. And the paranoia and almost cruel pragmatism she exibits at the end is not very surprising after all the abuse she suffered. The demise of her family tought her exactly what honor and being led by your emotions gets you in the end in Westeros. Psychopathy is a bit farfetched but it seems to be a trend to diagnose people that aren't overly emotional with that.
You did not think it was necessary for men who just fought ferociously to recover from their wounds, like say an internal organ stabbed or an exposed flesh due to fire or blade? Those guys didn't go to the gym and had a hard day... they fought a battle that they almost lost if the Night King did not die.
@@ignisinvictus She wasn't taking them to KL that day. And it had to have already been a couple of days since they had time to gather & burn all the bodies. And when Dany left with her troops it was to sail home to Dragonstone. Also Dany's troops are Unsullied & Dothraki, both raised as soldiers from childhood and able to withstand things normal men would break under.
@@ignisinvictus Ok, you know you aren't making any sense. They wouldn't take men who couldn't fight. And I think men who have their internal organs stabbed fall in that category, lol. Plus, this turned into a game between Sansa and Dany. Sansa was going to oppose any idea Dany had just to be in opposition of Dany and in turn Dany was going to find a reason to disagree with Sana. It was a game in the game and this is why common sense strategy got thrown out the window. If Dany would have said she needed to stay and let her men recover I truly believe Sansa would have started complaining about food and medical supplies. Sansa was an idiot trying to push Dany's buttons after Dany just saved her ass. And Dany's dumb ass allowed her buttons to be pushed.
Which proves you have a natural disposition to think the worst about Sansa, regardless of whether there is actual logic to it. Anyone with common sense could tell that Sansa was being sincere about making sure the soldiers rested after they literally just got out of a war. Even Arya looked at Dany like she was crazy. Jon Snow, Lord Commander should've known this was necessary, but he was sucking up because he wanted to appease Daenerys after her breakdown in their bedroom and he knew Dany was butthurt that Sansa didn't like her, so she wanted to assert dominance. That's why her dragon died.
Garden Rose I believe your comment that you have a natural disposition to only think the best about Sansa and anyone with common sense can see that. And in this particular situation I believe both Dany & Sansa are wrong which I made clear in my comment. Also, leaving early didn’t get her dragon killed. Sansa fans love to say that to help Sansa look smarter. What got her dragon killed was Dany not looking out for Euron’s fleet and Varys failing to use his web of spy’s to tell Dany Cersei had a new weapon in play. This scene between Dany & Sansa, much like the one between Arya & Sansa in s7, makes sense from both sides. Yes the troops needs rest but like Dany said the longer she waits the stronger her enemies get. Which turn out to be the case. Imagine how many more scorpions would have been built had Dany waited longer. And Euron’s fleet would have had a chance to only grow. Both were right and both were wrong. But as usual the Sansa fanatics see everything Sansa does as wonderful, just too funny 😂
Glad I'm not the only one who's disappointed in season 8. Great video as usual guys! But you gotta admit; who wouldn't want to turn Ramasy into dog chow?
Sansa has always acted like the world revolves around her. She is a naive, bratty and incredibly childish girl. She is the sort of person who cares more about the packaging than what's in the inside. The horrible things that had been done to her could have been avoided or at least stopped quicker if she didn't have the stupid dream to be a queen
When you're young, you believe the treatment Sansa was suffering was undeserved. When you get older, you realize it was completely karmic. Her selfishness, disloyalty to her family, and willful ignorance of the blatantly obvious (that Joffrey and his mother were terrible people, among other things) got an innocent child, a young dire wolf, and her own father killed. Unfortunately, it was not karmic enough; she only learns to become even more sociopathic than she was at the beginning, and gets rewarded for it.
Telling Tyrion Jon's secret was the smart and right thing to do. She did the opposite of what her dumb father did. Ned kept Cersei's secret and we saw where that got him and the people. Sansa knows that the people in the North are fucked if Dany takes the throne, and they are more important than her brother's aunty relationship.
If they're more important she should have told jon about knights of the vale before the war she just wanted to be the savior and wanted the northeners to believe in her and let her men die and was upset when she saw jon survived the slaughter
Did you see the look of envy and almost lust on Sansa's face when Daenerys left the North with her Dragons. "Why her" she told Tyrion. I have never resonated with Sansa, although I do think it was a terrible thing that happened to her with Ramsey Bolton. At this point Daenerys should just fly off on Drogon far far away. I am too heartbroken at what they have done to her. They do not deserve her and she is now Queen of the Ashes (such meteoric tragedy)
The thing that is most annoying about Sansa is how little she learns from her mistakes. In season 2 The Hound gave her a chance to escape King's Landing and go with him and she refused. Was this a foolish decision? Maybe, maybe not. The Hound wasn't exactly the most trusthworthy person, and it might not have been worth taking the risk. But then again in season 3 Little Finger gives her the opportunity to escape with him, but since she is so preoccupied with the idea of getting married to Loras Tyrell she chose to stay in the Capital. If she were half as smart as Arya seems to think she is she would have at least considered the possibility that things might have gone wrong as they tend to do in King's landing. She knew just how dangerous Cersei and Joffrey were, and that she was a hostage, yet she chose to stay instead of possibly being able to reunite with Robb and her Mother.
Late finding this channel but thank you for reflecting exactly my view on Sansa. Particularly when she didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale in the Battle of the Bastards. How many men died unnecessarily? Jon could have delayed the battle and saved a lot of lives. Ramsey may have even capitulated without a fight.
10:02 Wait why did you make it sound like a point against her that she enjoyed seeing her tormentor Ramsay eaten? I don't like sansa either but let's not pretend Ramsay didn't deserve much worse than he got.
@@michelmorio8026 Even at the cost of looking like hypocrites? They excuse and even root for dany to carry out justice but when sansa does just that with Ramsay it's a piece of what makes her a terrible person? Like I said I'm not a fan of her and I usually love Greenhand vids but that point in particular bugged me especially with his condescending tone.
Exactly they stopped giving characters reasons and depth from season 5 and 6 just look at tyrion breaking the wheel why would tyrion care about braking the wheel all of a sodden makes no sense it's just bad writting no reason to try and explain it
I find it extremely odd that on one anywhere I’ve looked mentions that it’s Sansa who goes to Cersei to rat out Ned’s plans to return north, thus setting in motion EVERYTHING that follows. Sansa is a snitch. Sure, she gets some training from Cersei, but her betryal of her father is all Sansa’s doing, born of her selfish desires.
Sansa is Dumb and Dumber's ideal for a "strong woman." Powerful, amoral, manipulative, and ungrateful. She was played with like a toy with the Lannisters until Tyrion married her. Since then' he's literally risked life and limb to protect her, mainly by threatening Joffery. Does he even get a simple "thank you?" Nope. Instead, she condescends about his intelligence the next time they finally meet. The other strong woman Dumb and Dumber wrote snapped and went bonkers because she won an overwhelming victory...
Show Sansa has the same problem as show Cersei when it comes to wanting to be Queen in a medieval-like setting. They both won no wars, or bled blood for their armies, or ever defeated a worthy foe with their own hands yet they both expect men to blindly follow them. Even if Sansa were to manipulate her way to the crown, she too would be over-thrown quickly by someone willing to take the crown by force, the same way Dany did Cersei.
Foe4Life Sansa never wanted the Iron Throne though and she doesn't want it now. She wanted to be a King's wife, bear him children and live a fairytale life, not to rule over people.
@@KHH595 that's what she actually wanted In season 8 when Tyrion suggest bran to be the king she was visibly upset even though bran is a stark and all kingdoms were ruled by a stark she wanted to seperate the north from the seven so that atleast she can be queen in the north
the part where margaery becomes new queen-to-be, sansa is defo HAPPY and relieved. she was pretending to be upset because that's the "appropriate" response. you guys are seeing things that aren't there. this whole queen obsession died when she saw her father beheaded. come on now, this isn't a fair analysis of sansa.
after ned's death, she was just trying to get by. i get that she kept making iffy mistakes, but now i appreciate how truly gray her character is. the dynamic between her and arya is so good to watch, but the truth is that arya has the setup that tells you right away she's one of the heroes whereas sansa is more like most girls who wouldn't really know how to fight and would just try to get by when they are all alone among what seems to be a sea of enemies. she would have thrown joffrey back in the scene where he forced her to look at the heads in the spikes if not for the hound whose job was to look after joffrey at the time. even joffrey didn't flinch right away or step back, meaning joffrey had poor reflexes and would have been pushed if the hound didn't stop sansa. early on, there is a very subtle setup right there that tells you sansa is still one of the starks but most people either forget this or miss it entirely.
Hmm, you conveniently left out where she stands up to Joffrey for Ser Dontos. And there are many other scenes where she shows compassion. No way she is a psychopath. You also left out her competence as a leader. She is a light grey character. There are many worse possibilities for rulers.
I like you guys and sansa isn't written well (but what character is nowadays). But I think some of your 'evidence for how much she sucks doesn't quite work. When she say "all shes ever wanted" shes talking about marrying a handsome prince, having his babies, and being in a fairytale (like alot of 14 year olds). Qnd when margaery becomes betrothed to joffery she smiles and laughs, shes relieved that it wont be her. I honestly dont know what they were trying to get across with that "we have a new queen now" line, but I read it as a dig at Cersei. Also she doesn't always only care for herself, she saves ser dontos because she doesn't like watching him be tortured and she was asking for joffery to stop and just go back with her when he starts messing with arya and micha. And, even though its dumb, she didnt want to use littlefingers help. She was pissed at him and didnt want to rely on him and his forces. She still should have told jon they were an option, but it didnt seem like some underhanded attempt at getting jon killed. It seems like you guys just really really dislike her and are looking for any tiny thing you can use to make assumptions about how awful she is. I dont blame sansa for any of that stuff that's happened since season 6 though, I blame the writers, in trying to make her seem "cool, strong, and intelligent" they ended up making her look petty and annoying and backstabbing. But what can you expect from D&D?
You left out an important turning point that led to the death of Ned Stark. Sansa disobeyed her father and told the queen that her father was sending her and her sister back to Winterfeld - What a disloyal child and what a self-centered brat
That's also meant to highlight her naivety. How her actions, however thoughtless and without malice, have real-world concequences. How is an 11 year-old supposed to know that would happen? Arya is very intuitive for her age and quite observant. But most children, let alone girls, are NOT like that. They are like Sansa. Most 11 year old girls are selfish and self-centered and have flights of fancy in their heads about boys and marriage. Especially in the World of Westros. Sansa made a huge mistake. One that ended with dire consequences. But, how can she be expected to know that would happen? She too trusting of adults she doesn't know. Afterwards, she changes how she feels about Joffery and the Queen and everyone else. Sansa is a child who makes mistakes children would make without knowing the world of adults. You can't expect an 11 year old to play the game effectively.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand . Check back to when the king's council manipulated Sansa to write her brother imploring him to come and bend the knee. Cerci complimented Sansa for coming to her to tel her about her father's treason. That was in the show.
Speaking only from the book perspective, Sansa seems like a character that's a lot more plausible than Arya-NoT-lIkE-tHe-OtHeR-gIrls. Sansa is not perfect, she's entitled, extremely naive and selfish...which I find very normal for a high born eleven years old. She was raised to have a romantic notions of the world and to be courteous, feminine and polite. And guess what, Arya may be such a badass, but she's unruly, impolite and prone to impulsive actions that bring her and other troubles. I get why Arya is a fan favorite, I really enjoyed her chapters in the war torn riverlands with the brotherhood without banners. Yet, I also loved Sansa's chapter where we get to see her become more and more aware of the false courtesy and schemes of everyone in King's Landing. I also love all of the small thoughts she starts having about Joffrey like 'he hopes he drinks too much and breaks his neck'. She realises that all of her expectations and dreams were stupid. They brought her so much misery. She learns this the hard way, she witnesses her dad being executed in front of her (partially because of her actions sure, but Ned did a pretty good job at this too lol) and is kept a hostage, married and beaten in front of court by fucking sociopath Cersei and Joffrey...I mean geez. She responds through courtesy and compliance because doing the opposite will only get her killed. She's obviously not perfect and makes stupid decisions....like everyone else. Just because she's not a cool stabbing-tomboy 10-years old doesn't make her a terrible person. I love the insight we get of a highborn lady navigating such a complex political place like KL court.
@@ykMMD I think Sansa is unlikable but I really enjoy what characters like Sansa add to the story. I don't get the vitriol surrounding her when the story would be worse without her.
To be fair, Joffrey _was_ reinforcing the social hierarchy. Peasants aren't allowed to have weapons, or military training. I blame Arya for putting the poor kid up to it in the first place. Arya breaks the rules of social conventions, and the peasant kid dies for it.
Right. She seems to doesnt know her Resposebilitys as a Noble, like when she turned down Gendrys Offer to marry him, i just thought "Honey thats not really up to you, Peasants can marry for Love, if Nobles do the same... well ask youre Brother Robb how that works out"
@@clantoriador8397 Right. The show stopped caring about the feudal setting & the social order a long time ago. They don't seem to understand that the "feminist" (yikes) critique of the story is rooted in the patriarchal hierarchy of feudalism.
Good point. But Arya was just a kid and was encouraged by her father to treat everyone well. Remember that in the books, Ned would invite members of his household staff and soldiers at the dining table on rotation to get to know them. The children of Winterfell were friends with sons and daughters of their servants. The sad thing is that stepping out of Winterfell, the rules changed to society's norms and what you said about social conventions holds true in that regard.
I *HATE* show Sansa. Making everyone around her stupid does not make her clever. I do not understand her sudden idea of an independent North. Where does that come from?! She is literally the only of the Stark children who has no connection with the North. She betrayed her family in S1 and her direwolf died for it. That was, for me at least, the last or only part of the north in her.
It certainly seems to have been her intended arc, which has gone out the window on the show. Now I have to deal with people in my life saying they love cold-hearted, snotty Sansa more every week, not as a villain, but as an ideal
The fact that defending armies don't use castle walls as a line of defense in the show, and that Jon and Dany actually planned for the Dothraki horde to initiate an attack on the army of the dead with simple arakhs leaves no doubt that dumb and dumber are the worst writers in tv history.
not to mention the screen time given unloading heaps of dragon glass.. all for what? smh
Yep, tactically that battle was stupid. Trebuchets out in front of the infantry? Dafuq?
Don't forget that moment when Jon was just sitting on top of a dragon doing nothing
Jon is dumb and a bad military commander, I don't know why he told Dany to wait and not support the army with dragon power
@@bethaofhouseblackwood234 Jon Show is only dumb because D&D are dumb. It's why all of Robb's battles were off screen. No way could they competently write a proper battle.
She did not help anyone in the crypts when the Knight King raised the dead. She had a dragon glass dagger and she hid while people died around her. Danny picked up a sword and started fighting.
Lisa Marshall - Dany wasn't actually supposed to grab the sword and start fighting. That wasn't in the script but Emilia insisted. Sansa and Tyrion were supposed to come out with their daggers ready to fight but their scene was cut. You can see a bit of the footage in that episode's behind the scenes video.
She didn't even knit by a fire! 😂
@@KHH595 who gives a damn , she still fought with Drogon and killed more whites than any other person in this story, while sansa shit herself and hid like a pathetic coward that she is.
Typical Sansa Stan : But she sooo strong because she choose to become a cardboard box to be abused and used. How brave she is for choosing Jeffrey over her family. How loyal she is that she broke the oath she had given to keep Jon's identity a secret.
@@saptaswapal4064 4:18
"I know my brother is the all seeing, all knowing, Three-Eyed Raven, but my sister, Lady Sandra, is the smartest person I know." -Lumpyhead
not to mention arya knew tywin as welll...
@@flowerdrag0n Jaqen H'ghar as well.
It's so cringeworthy! I think this might be the worst line! They had several characters tell us how smart she is.
bran knowing all is based on magical powers, not life experience, but go off i guess.
Bran is not smart at all, he has knowledge, but knowledge and intelligence are NOT the same. Why people can't understand that ?
I've been really annoyed how harsh people are on every character and let Sansa get away with all this crap.
Plenty of people say "oh she was just a girl" or "no she didn't betray Jon". when it seems all the clues are there for her betrayal.
@Booper Dooper Even if you don't think she betrayed Jon during the BoB she absolutely just betrayed him by telling his secret. Also, there's no way the Northmen would let Littlefinger and the Vale dictate to them who they named King in the North.
I think the evidence is in this video. When she realized Jon was still alive she had to make another plan. Who knows, she might have been reluctant to carry it out, but it really seemed like she was very unhappy that Jon was still alive.
@@Gwenhwyfar7 Why would she be upset Jon was alive? That makes zero narrative sense. What even is this.
That's hilarious. Sansa never gets away with anything. Jon, Dany, Arya, Tyrion any fan fave can get away with literal murder and there'll be people justifying it, but Sansa tells a secret and there's hell to pay.
Im only 8 minutes in and all i keep thinking is thank god I'm not only one noticed how terrible she truly was. Making her Queen of the North was the grossest act of fan fiction ever.
I would have been fine if an asshole like baelish managed to win the game of thrones.
Atleast he would have earned it.
Sansa is neither smart nor wise, in order to be a queen.
And the fact that D&D made everyone stupid, just to make her look smart, doesn't help at all either.
Go check out Maulers channel, he just made a two and a half hour video, roasting Ep5 and explains in it as well why Sansa isn't not even the least bit smart.
Just everyone around her turned stupid.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM bealish wouldnt be even nececarly a bad King.
@@ottersirotten4290
Yea.
Baelish philosophy, wasn't "rule through fear", like Cersei's.
So i can't really tell, how he would rule a kingdom, if he was the one in charge.
And it doesn't matter if baelish is cruel.
Tywin was cruel as hell. And yet he was possible the best hand in the history of westeros.
He kept the kingdom stable and running smoothly, for decades.
So yea. Baelish could have potentially ruled a kingdom smoothly like Tywin did.
@@FusionTM_REDRUM Yep, Tywin, Baelish and maybe Roose Bolten were the right kind of cruel, theyre cruelty was always a means to an End and not the End in itself like it was the Case with Geoffrey and Ramsey who just were cruel for the Fun of it.
Cerseis Problem imo wasnt the Aproach of ruling through Fear, her Problem was her rampant Stupidity
@@ottersirotten4290
Yea. I made a mistake there.
Rule through fear was what Tywin had as well, and he did just fine.
Cersei is indeed just a bloody idiot.
Honestly, from season 6 on, I can't tell how much of Sansa's evil behavior is character development, & how much is D&D being terrible storytellers.
All them being terrible storytellers. Like nothing she does makes sense beyond the odd common sense line of "use boiled leather on that armor" "where we get the food?" and "shouldn't our wounded rest?" And even those make her look petty.
@@chandrawagner4061
I want book Sansa to become Ladyfinger: a female version of Littlefinger with the spirit of a wolf.
The show is trying to do this, but they are half-assing it, so it's terrible.
@@nietzschesmoustache3585 agreed. I would love that character arc and you can see where their trying to make that, I just dont think their capable of devising littlefinger type plans without someone else making up the twist.
They're*
@@chandrawagner4061 it just makes other characters look wildly incompetent so she can look like she's useful
I can't believe Dumb and Dumber actually used Dany's lack of tears to Viserys' death (a brother whom had abused all her life and just threatened to cut her belly open and kill her unborn child) as "signs of madness" when Sansa was the one lacking empathy towards other people since the start, only caring about herself and her personal interests, a true daughter of Stoneheart, Cersei 2.0
Victoria viserys was a piece of trash that abused and threatened Dany constantly
@@FM-xr5nj I know, that's what I said
Victoria but Viserys also ensured that she would survive; remember, he had to care for her while still being a child and they had to wander the free cities
@@michelmorio8026 Oh right, how could I forget, Viserys was such a good brother taking care of his little sister, that definitely excuses the abuse, it wasn't like he kept her alive so he could use her as broodmare (initially for himself, later for Khal Drogo) not at all, his intentions were completely pure and brotherly... note the sarcasm
Victoria yes, Turm my words in my mouth... I NEVER SAUD HE WAS A GOOD CARING BROTHER... you pointing out that he wasn‘t the one dimensional evil psycho everyone and the show seems to make out of him... he is quite a manyfaced interesting character, that of course treated Dany in the timeframe of the book like shit, but he wasn‘t always thst way towards her or she woulnd‘t have named one of her children after him!
If not for Nymeria , her little sister would've died. Showed no remorse and yet showrunners called Dany a villain for allowing her husband to kill her abusive brother who threatened to kill her unborn child. And she did gave Viserys chances,yet she's the mad one
While Sansa's obsession with being a queen led to cost her family.....well...and still she ended up with a happy ending in show
Dany bringing everything to defend the North and yet she's the MAD one
She could've stayed in East or take the throne or whatever ,but she CHOSE to join the mankind and even fought in the battle, unlike hiding in crypts
"... unlike hiding in crypts" And Tyrion was fine with it despite being the very Charakter who EXPLAINED during Stannis Attack at KL that the Nobility is desperate needed near the Troops to raise Moral
In the first book she said she wish Arya would’ve died instead of lady which shows a lo she’s a spoiled brat and annoying just like catelyn
@@ACinemafanatic she’s just like her Stonehearted Mother.
@@lonestarwolfentertainment7184 She is the most Tully-like Stark child.
@@ACinemafanatic And in the books Dany profits off of the slaves that sold themselves back into slavery.
You really want to go there?
Oh, and D&D also kind of forgot that Edmure Tully and his wife and child are still alive, and he should technically be in control of the Riverlands.
He was. But his title was just restored when Houses Frey and Lannister were destroyed .
@@janellejulianajoy They didn't explain where he was after Season 6. Was he at the Twins again, or Casterly Rock? Did Arya release him after killing the Freys, or was he rotting for who knows how long. Where were all the Tullys in Season 7 and 8, they just don't care.
@@luke8801 that sums up all my questions and their answers. Why? Not relevant apparently. It’s like The Office where Oscar tries to critique Michael Scott’s movie. “The analytical side of me wants to read deeper into the symbolism behind the imagery...but I know it has no meaning.”
Much as I've hated Sansa throughout the series, it simply is not true that she was angry that Joffrey married Margarey. Not only is there a scene where it seems clear she is laughing and somewhat crying in response to Joffrey being betrothed to Margarey, but Sansa specifically told Olenna and Margarey that Joffrey was a monster. It's one of the reasons, that pushed Olenna to poison Joffrey.
Pow that's very true.
Not only this, but she actually laughs when she isnt being watched after the wedding. Marjorie knew that Joffrey was a monster and married him anyway. Then she and her grandmother killed Joffrey so she could marry Tommen.
@@melodie3169 And if I remember correctly from the books, didnt she smile after her engagement to Joffrey is 'cancelled' ?
@@ykMMD Yes I think she did ! I'll re read this chapter cause she was feeling so releived if I remember correctly 😉
True. In books even she was relieved she no longer have to marry him
5:55 she's actually pretending to be upset in that specific situation...when joff accepts margeary she acts upset but smiles almost laughs with glee when she walks away before littlefinger shows up...U may be right about other things but that's not true...
That might be a Sad laugh. I know at this point she hated Joeffry but it seems like she didn't hate him more than she loves being a queen. Right before this, the Hound proposed to bring her back to Winterfell but she refused. Then after knowing she won't marry Joffry anymore, Littlefinger gave her the opportunity to go to the vale, to which she agreed but refused later after finding she might get married to Loras and rule over Highgarden.
@Divin Mugala Muhigirwa - Exactly! And she does take the Lord’s room at Winterfell by manipulating Jon into ‘guilt tripping’ her to do so.
They don't get sansa enough to speak on the chapters that weren't from her point of view.
Later when Maergery and Joff do actually get married, she still shows jealousy that there is a new queen. She knows it would be awful but she would still be willing to go through with it and take the abuse just to be the queen.
@@Gwenhwyfar7 I don't know...I can't recall ever feeling like sansa wanted to be queen after they kill ned n she sees how horrible joff is...if she was ever upset it was cuz she was stuck there n about what they were doing to her family...she was very happy to marry loras Tyrell cuz she liked him but mostly to get out of kings landing...
Remember when Jon and Arya used to say, "Don't tell Sansa," about anything? Well, then, why did Jon forget this and included Sansa in the telling of his parentage under that weirwood tree? Either Jon has forgotten that Sansa cannot be trusted with secrets, or this is bad writing, or...or... I don't know.
Jon has forgotten, that is Dumb and Dumber's answer to every plothole they dig themselves into.
I don't think that was in the show. I also think Jon wanted it to get out deep down. All he's ever wanted all his life was to NOT be a bastard. Also note he has Bran tell them for some reason.
And yet Sansa gained Arya respect in the end.
@@lyndadermott9953 she gained "show!Arya's" respect.. that thing is not Arya. As if Arya would ever side with Sansa against Jon.
@@lovescent46 We dont know what happens in the books, they haven't been finished yet. Sansa was just leaving the Vale when we saw her last in the books. Much could change.
Finally someone calls out Sansa for the awful person she is.
99% Of people are very dumb.
@@LITANTICS Have you even watched season 1 (or this video)?
Legit every one in that show are evil
@@bobbobb2322 u mean ppl who watch the show also legit everyone in that show is bad in there own way
She’s always been annoying even in the books after lady dies she said she wished it was Arya instead
And her immediately breaking a vow she made in the godswood.
I feel a lot more understanding for book Sansa despite her early on spoiled adolescent princess naivety & selfishness. TV show Sansa actually got worse over time in my mind.
@@rickyandreou definitely TV Sansa. I know book Sansa never did it.
And before a heart tree no less.
@@rickyandreou I rooted for show Sansa because I thought she was the same as book sansa. I rooted for her until season 5 where it became clear that the show ruined her to the point of no return. I can't believe I defended her for so long.. The show screwed up big time on so many levels.
Should have got cursed for it
Agree. I spent this whole season thinking wtf is Sansa doing? Worst of all, because of bad writing, it actually worked for her. Shame.
Season 7, episode 1: Good Queen Sansa wanted to punish the Umber and Karstark kids for "crimes" committed by their relatives . . . EXACTLY WHAT JOFFREY DID TO SANSA because of Robb!!!
Not remotely the same. Joffrey's punishment was personal. Sansa was simply following an established practice of disinheriting a disloyal family and she wanted to give their lordships to people who had supported Jon & Sansa. That's what you DO in a feudal society, and how you reward loyalty and punish disloyalty. The point is that the lords of the Last Hearth and the Karhold are supposed to be working for the Lord of Winterfell, who is a Stark. Those kids did nothing to earn the status of lord. They did nothing to prove their worthiness to man a castle and wield great power in the area. The only claim to that power and rank is because they were the children of lords. But those lords were traitors and murderers, who committed war crimes. Why should you get power and rank because you are the relative of a scumbag? House Karstark got started, because a man who was loyal to the King in the North defeated a rebel. The King rewarded him by making him a lord and letting him have a castle of his own. If his descendants can be lords and have a castle because of one ancestor's loyalty and heroics, they can also lose it, because of an ancestor's treason and crimes.
Sansa was not imprisoning or scourging the Karstark & Umber kids for their fathers' crimes, she just wanted the power and responsibilities of those positions to pass from families that had failed in their duty, to people who had done their duty to the Starks. From children, whose competence was suspect, to adults who had proven their worth in the struggle against Ramsey. That's just basic, common sense politics.
Sansa looks down on commoners and Bastards alike. I still recall the disgust on her face when Daenerys made Gendry the lord of Storms End. She hates bastards and she got it from her mother. She even got heated with Jon after he took back Winterfell and wasn't doing exactly what she wanted. Despite losing her own home as a child, she advocated for Last Hearth and Karhold being stripped away from little Alice and Ned. She has no empathy and she won't make a good queen.
She's basically cercei 2
@@thecensoredmuscle563dude Cersei is a good character, she was supposed to be an antagonist and she did pretty well & she even called by her father that she's not as clever as she thinks. But, Sansa is literally evil but we are supposed to think and believe she's one of the good guys and cringe dialogues from Arya like "She's the smartest person I have ever met" arya literally met tywin Lannister (the mastermind)
She was jealous of Margaery? I thought she was excited at the prospect of marrying Loras?
Mike Armentrout - She was. They're misinterpreting her character. I'm not sure if it's intentional but they don't usually misinterpret other characters so badly.
@@KHH595 They seem to be switching some elements of Sansa's character from "book" to "show" and from "show" to "book".
She LIKES Marg and feels sorry for the fact she will be marrying Joff. She also brings up the butchers boy in the meeting as an example of his cruelty.
Midgetwithahacksaw Agree. They also stated in the comments that she was jealous of Margaery during the wedding but I took it as her being miserable because she was being paraded out with her new imp husband and having to watch the whole spectacle going on with Joffrey as the cruel ring leader. Tyrion looked equally miserable. She definitely did not wish she were in Margaery's place. She looked as if she didn't want to be there at all.
Kevin Begley - I wish I could like your comment more than once. I realized last night that i hadnt actually watched very many of their videos so i viewed a few more before unsubscribing. The fact that these people claim they are "experts" on the books yet got it so wrong is embarassing. They knew the ending they wanted so they manipulated the actions and intentions of other characters to align with their preferred narrative. I don't even understand what they gain by bashing Sansa's character at this point. Hating just to be hateful, I suppose. I've been waiting years for the story to reveal this part of Dany but it's incredibly aggravating that people are still ignoring all the signs that lead up to this and are blaming bad writing. While the writers aren't up to par with George, they certainly did try to capture this side of Dany even from the beginning. It's always easier for people to blame someone else for their own failures though. Btw, I've seen your comments on other videos throughout the last year and always gave them a like. You were a beacon of hope that the entire fandom were not complete morons. Lol.
Boudicca I agree with you for the most part. However, I don’t think the development of Dany’s character was far from being well done. We did get a lot of foreshadowing and clues, but those are different from having your character naturally progress from point A to point B. The writing on the last few seasons of GoT was terrible, and so many characters/plot lines were sadly butchered.
Worth noting that Sophie Turner has no clue why Sansa didn't mention the Vale forces.
UnholyCin The writers deliberately keep the actors in the dark. Nikolaj gave a recent interview how frustrating it was to act a scene without having any idea what the character’s motivation are. It’s like driving at night with your headlights off and it’s raining 🌧
@@Mr_Bones. I know, I'm sure the writers could give us an explanation. Though they did just give us 'Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet', so I doubt it would make sense.
hm i didn't know that sophie didn't know the motivation behind that. i just assumed that sansa was still in ptsd mode and decided to keep the vale card to herself because petyr is trying to pull her to the dark side.
at the time, i thought of sansa as severely broken by petyr's manipulation. she's at her grayest after she ran away from ramsay and before she got petyr executed. i don't like the overall arc of season 5-8 but sansa isn't a bad character.
Agreed. Emilia Clarke was completely floored when she read the last season's scripts. She had no clue they were going to assassinate her character like this. It's a joke.
UnholyCin I think she probably just doesn’t want to say “D&D did that to try to make the battle better”
All Sansa would have to do, in between her and jon going to different houses because they were outnumbered and telling Jon they should wait....was say “we might be able to get a strong army to back us up”
The battle plans would be different from the start. If Jon still falls into a trap by Ramsay, well, you have more soldiers to try to make up for that mistake
Sansa has gotten away with this shit for so long. People always complained that it was 'mean' to criticize her when she was a child but her childhood behavior sets the tone for who she grows up into, and she is one of the most consistent characters on the show. Then people complained that she had been through so much so it was mean to criticize her -- even though EVERY character has been through trauma. It's a great thing to see her being called out for this shit. Dany, Cersei and even Arya are always criticized, their good and bad actions are laid out in exhaustive detail in the fandom, and in the show, they do get called out by other characters (especially Dany and Cersei). Sansa just gets away with shit and we're supposed to root for her endlessly.
5:30 It isn't true that Sansa was upset when Joffrey put her aside in favor of Margery. After the announcement, we can see Sansa walking away smiling when Littlefinger caught her and reminded her that just because Joffrey isn't marrying her, doesn't mean he'll stop abusing her. I agree with other points, but this point is just plainly false.
So plainly. So false.
Yep that’s right. Another thing the video gets wrong is Sansa’s reaction to seeing Jon pursuing Ramsay after the battle of the bastards. The video claims she was disappointed to see Jon survived the battle, which is an extreme and unsupported interpretation. Most likely she was worried that Ramsay was luring Jon into yet another trap or that he (R) would manage to flee and eschew punishment.
Most of the points in the video are dead wrong.
@onimi I am not a die hard Sansa fan. I'm not a die hard fan of any of the characters (other than Theon & Cersei, because their actors are absolutely THE BEST). But when you are criticizing a character, at least used REAL things that happened, and not try and spin and twist things around to make your point.
She did look unhappy when she saw Jon though. I'll agree that they used the wrong photo to encapsulate this (the photo in the vid shows her worried that Jon will steal her revenge if anything) but watch her face closely. She ain't happy to see him. She even shifts her eyes downwards looking shady at. I used to be a Sansa fan but I couldn't get passed that whole Knights of the Vale nonsense.
Not nearly enough hate for Sansa out there. That character really annoyed me.
Finally! I've been trying to tell people just how horrible Sansa is, but they just keep accusing me of being a Dany or Jon fan. Thank you for saying what I've been saying for a long long time!
Because you are.
Garden Rose Professor X! Is that you? You need to stay out of people’s heads, since that’s the only way you could be making such a bold claim.
When Sansa squirmed in her seat before basically telling bran “ I love you, BUT...”. I wanted to throw w brick at the screen 🤣. I was like “ you can’t be queen so your not gonna play anymore are ya! 🙄. Of course. Bonus points for Sophie for doing a great job tho .
Laur Pellett me too! The Battle of the Bastards had me demanding that she be destroyed! And she set all of this in motion.
I honestly would’ve been ok with Dany killing her, just sayin 😛
Big mouth Stanka Snark bad mouths Dany who just saved her little snow fort from zombie apocalypse, before she did anything wrong. And broke her sworn oath to keep Jon's lineage a secret. All for what? To secure her own lemon cake kingdom all to herself?
You damn right. Go Sansa, get that independence. Dany isn't owed shit.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 She didn't drive any wedge between them. Dany did when she tried to demand Jon keep his own secret to himself. Dany was selfish and self serving and an up and coming tyrant. Sansa saw that because she's lived with tyrants for years. Varys knew exactly what he was doing and Dany already told him last season if he betrayed her, she'd roast him alive. So Dany putting blame on Sansa for something she promised to do to Varys long before she ever met Sansa was ridiculous and untrue.
If Dany didn't fight for the North, she would have been slaughtered later by the Night King. His army would have quadrupled in size, and her throne wouldn't mean shit
@@kumarcollins585 The NK wouldn't have knocked the wall down if Daenerys didn't go to save Jon because he wouldn't have gotten Viserion so the North would've been fine. All she did was catch everyone's shit after she helped anyway. However the throne doesn't mean anything now anyway since KL is nothing but ash and burnt brick.
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 He would have gotten pass the wall eventually. Probably just found away to get around it. Remember in season 7, the Hound brought the wight around the wall via ship. He could have possibly had his army build a fleet in some years time.
I never liked Sansa. After her actions with the Arya/Joffrey situation, I was done with her. She had no honor or family allegiance. I honestly can't stand the constant praise she has gotten since Kingslanding. Hopefully George can find a way to make a character grow/change in a believable way.
Show Sansa is a miserable Littlefinger/Cat/Cersei cocktail
Adrian Wyatt could be the reason I like her... at least no idealistic boring idiot like Jon or messianic-figure-to-rid-the-world-of-tyrants-by-actual-becoming-one-herself like Daenerys
Adrian Wyatt you nailed it.
@Adaneth well said
There proof here SHE HAS ALWAYS BEEN.
Adaneth exactly ,all we’ve had to hear from how many characters is how smart she is , would be nice to actually see her doing something smart. And it drives me nuts that they use the word smart it’s too modern a word for the show , clever would be more appropriate, as opposed to oh my god she’s like the smartest person I know . & yes they’ve done aspects of her that are supposed to remind you of Catelyn & Cersei but with Catelyn I could still feel empathy, sympathy & cry for her , Sansa dosent evoke those emotions, Sansa has never seemed to love anyone but herself & not even that has been compelling. Even Cersei , you have moments of feeling for her ( Lena Headey is amazing ) with Robert , Tywin , etc but Sansa is just ... of course you don’t want to see bad things happen to her, I think the only time I felt truly was when she reunited with Jon the first time , ( she never seems to show that much emotion again toward him) & when Theon came back to fight for Winterfell
Sansa is just like her horrible mother, Catelyn. She would get everyone killed in Winterfell just like her mother did with Robb.
She may yet. Dany is really pissed Sansa shared Jon's secret with Tyrion. Who in turn told varys and no telling what becomes of the letters he sent. Will those Lord's show up at KL Sunday?
Rob got himself killed by his actions. I am not a Catelyn fan at all but I don't see how she can be blamed for that.
@@dburgd99 Catelyn did it all
VulcanKhioneThePersonaKing9999 - Examples?
dburgd99 rule number one concerning the internet -> there are always some idiots blaming Catelyn (books) and Sansa (show) for everything happening
I think all the characters have become too simple since the show outpaces the books
Which is the reason this video is pointless.
@@mozart7820 Pointless? No, although that's just speaking from my point of view ..
Doesn't help HBO pushed the last two seasons run time from 20 episodes to 13! at 10 million an episode, fans got fucked.
Specially Jon and Tyrion.
@@Kill-Dozer Wasn't HBO. D&D specifically said in an interview that HBO wanted the show to keep going and were willing to give them the money for it, but D&D said they were all done with it. (Meaning that **D&D** wanted to go make their Star Wars movies.)
I was telling my husband tonight before we watched the last episode, I thought Sansa sucked. She never did anything to help anyone but herself. She was good at playing the game but not an honorable character.
Paused the video to watch joffery get bitten by Nymeria!
ditto
Nymeria should have went his neck instead of hand. Anyway Arya let nymeria escape.
Someone on Twitter called her "Princess Brexit" and I've been laughing non stop
I've never liked Sansa, so this feels like catharsis. She always rubbed me the wrong way. Love Sophie though, she seems like a sweet person
Wrong, sophie sold out to Lucifer same as her husband did and all of hellywood...shes trash in reality as well.
Much like Jack Gleason (Joffrey) who's also a real sweetie.
In one interview, he effortlessly transforms into Joffrey and back, it's quite something to watch.
Sansa in the show was a girl kept in a bubble that was constantly told she was beautiful and become queen. She was a high born ruler in a culture of high born not giving a shit about low born. It like people forget that it a culture of high born and low born seen as less valuable. It why she had one of the most interesting character developments in the show. Sure though they seem like they couldn't decide D and D who they wanted her to be so she is like this limbo who has learnt from Littlefinger and Cersei very well.
Ugh. I can't stand Sophie Turner. She's homely and can't act. How did she ever get cast in GOT?
bailando74 - Seriously? I thought Sophie Turner grew more as an actor than anyone in the cast-and I taught acting for years in major markets.
She cut herself adrift when she betrayed her family. That's what led to the symbolic death of Lady.
Oh, that's acutally a good one
She never betrayed her family, but go off I guess.
damn Robb's the only child of Ned Stark I respect... and Rickon cause he was innocent
Garden Rose she did. She told Ned's secret to Cersie causing him to captured and beheaded. She sided Joffrey over Arya causing Lady to die and Nymeria to be separated to her sister. And all of this because she wanted to be queen.
Al fin alguien que recuerda eso, ella contó su huida secreta, lo que derivó en la muerte de Ned.
Seems to me Show Sansa is a chip off the block of her mother. True to Tully form... God do I miss the Blackfish. Reminds me of my late Grandfather.
She's Catelyn 1.5 ... not even 2.0 ... Just 1.5
Said the same thing in a conversation the other day. She is a lot like Cat. Family above all else
After all, Ser Rodrick hated sailing, so they went by boat.
The Blackfish could have escaped with Brienne, then gone on to advise Sansa...Would the book blackfish be so obsessed with the castle?
You're 100% correct Catlyn Tully was awful
I know everyone tend to parallel Cersei and Daenerys, somehow, but I think Sansa fits that pattern better. Thinking about it, she's a little Cersei in the making. Of course, Sansa having a nurturing father figure like Ned for most of her life, who adored all of his children equally and them loved unconditionally, puts her in a better perspective when we think about how strict Tywin might have been with Cersei. Also, surely Robert with all his faults was certainly not half as cruel as Joffrey was. At least Sansa still clings to her childhood dreams of chivalry and courtesies, while Cersei is a woman grown and a cynic adult, but the two have very much in common, in my opinion.
I hate there’s this huge chance Sansa will be one of the few (maybe only?) character to get exactly what she wants. Lady of Winterfell, ruling the North.
And she did
Queen of The North 🐺
I Don't like Sansa 😂 undeserving character, people are angry😬
Yeah.
The writers Mary sued her ending as well.
The northerners just forgot that Jon is there King.
And the north gets to be independent by Bran without any objections from the other houses.
She did nothing notable her entire arc, other than being bitchy at first. And then continuesly abused and tortured the entire show.
And in the end. It is basically proven than she is just a combination of cersei and little finger.
Well, not little finger so much though. Because even though the show tries to make her look smart. It fails miserably .
They just made all the characters around her look dumb, so she could look kind of smart.
That was a pathetic attempt from the show runners.
Sansa is just a petty person like cersei. And she thinks is the smartest shit that ever walked in westeros.
If the characters haven't been dumbed down. The. Sansa and her little scheme at the end to overthrow Danny would have failed.
If that was Tyrion from seasons 1-4 . He could have easily see through Sansa's attempt to plot against Daenerys.
He wouldn't be so stupid as to tell Vary's about Jon's parentage first. Because he knows that Vary's, even though he helped him escape, is not to be trusted with such a secret.
He knows all to well that Vary's loyalty is with the realm and not his queen. Vary's has admitted it multiple times already, to him and Danny as well.
So yea. Everything got completely trash, just for plot convenience.
Jon, Ghost, Bran, Tyrion, Bronn, Sansa, Tormund, Sam, Gilly, Pod, Brienne and the Hound get what they want. Arya and Grey Worm get what they deserve in that they'll soon be dead (nothing is West of Westeros and Naath is a death trap)
Late I know, but:
Sansa as Queen of the North (queen of anything really) will end in disaster.
She has no ability to rule or garner loyalty from vasals, she has learned only the most basic bitch tricks from Little Finger.
I give her no more than 5 years on the throne before she has either a full blown rebellion on her hands with no allies or death by the hand of an assassin.
Because she's her mother's daughter.
Soooo, she values family above all else and will fiercely fight to protect them? Sounds about right.
@@roseofthegarden_ Catelyn was the one who got her family killed, with help from Sansa. It was a team effort.
garden rose, cait didn't value family, she wished death upon jon snow, and ned didn't trust her enough to tell her the truth lol, so use logic next time...
@@username7735 lol how is Catelyn to blame for the Starks making bad moves? She was actually giving them advice that would've helped them the whole time: stop climbing, don't go south, don't send away Theon Greyjoy, think with head not with your dick, don't execute Rickard Karstark.
@@roseofthegarden_
Fiercely fight for her family?.
You must be on drugs.
Just watch the video carefully and stop being biased fan boy or girl or what ever someone is this days.
Even from the beginning of the video, you see that her family comes secondary to her desires.
You can like her all you want. Just as a lot of people like little finger.
But don't try to whitewash her and make her look like another person with higher motives other than her personal agenda.
Ok?.
Show Sansa is a Tully true to form. Only The Blackfish was great.
Sophisticated. Flow - What attributes would you say make one more Tully-like?
@@KHH595 Simple. Honor, Duty, Family.
Jacob Johansen - Sounds a lot like Stark attributes too thought, doesn't it?
@@KHH595 Well, Yeah. but i Think The Tully's Value Family at bit more than the Starks do. in a way atleast
Jacob Johansen - Sounds like good characteristics to me. I don't understand why people are calling her a Tully as if it were demeaning?
OMG, I've been saying "Sansa isn't lil miss Innocent" FOREVER!!! I HATED Sansa!!! People criticized Dany for her missteps, but Sansa was NEVER held accountable for the sh!t she did!!!
Arya to Sansa: "Stick 'em with the pointy end"
Me: ... _sigh_
Nietzsche's Moustache - It's like they're finding any excuse possible to insert old quotes even if it doesn't make sense narratively. Half the dialogue for season 8 is just repeating old lines.
@@KHH595 Tyrion and Varys talking about Eunuch jokes and Dwarf jokes for like the 4th or 5th time.
And,
Gendry: Marry me?!?!?
Arya: It's not me.
Theres probably others repeated lines but I dont remember. But dont forget them repeating the same lines/conversations all of season 8.
Jon: "You're my Queennnn~~"
Also Jon: "I dont want it. I never wanted it."
Dany pointing out Tyrion's mistakes in every scene they have together.
Varys and Tyrion talking about Jon and Dany and the true heir and marriage like 3 times.
@@KHH595
I'm convinced D&D know that's not good writing, so my guess is that they're hoping the audience will _mistake_ those callbacks for some kind of payoff.
Nietzsche's Moustache - agreed. No reason to use that throwaway line as proof that Sansa is incompetent when it's clear why they had her say it.
Weren't you expecting that as soon as Sansa started saying she didn't know how to use it? That's the kind of expectation that should be subverted.
Don't get me wrong, I can't stand Sansa, but I think you're giving her too much credit. She really doesn't seem that smart.
That's because she ain't.
The characters around her just turned 180 and became dumb as fuck. Only for her to look smart and awesome.
The show is a joke. Let's just wait for the books to finish.
I doubt GRR Martin would turn Tyrion to a complete idiot and let Sansa make a fool out of him.
Assuming things will go down more or less the same that is. Which I doubt it.
FLCLogic dyno 👏🏾 A person with sense
Right?! The writers were trying to convince us that she’s become this mastermind manipulater, but she’s done absolutely nothing to show for, literally nothing besides that dumb LF plot line
😭😭😭😭
@@crozecamp I hate how they say "she learned from Cersi". Most of Cersi's plans backfired, she was constantly being out manured by better players.
What a nice family the poor Ned Stark raised, Rob enrolled all the North in his crusade to avenge his dad, but when he met a woman he liked, he forgot everything and everybody, even the deal that his mom went to make to help the cause, that decision caused his own death, his pregnant wife, all his men, the wolf, and his own mother, Sansa who was obsessed to be queen at any cost as we watched in this video and at the last episode we watched her doing the same things, she was the only one who had an argument against Bran taking the throne and after he accepted to be King she still had something to say and she openly told her own brother that the North people (meaning her) won't accept any other King, that could be caused that other members of the council tried to do the same thing, luckily for Bran D&D wanted to include the scene of Tyron fixing the chairs for the small council meeting and everybody went mute after her declaration. Arya who end up being a killer with no remorse whatsoever, Bran (Well, to me Bran died in the cave, and since then his body was a vessel to the three-eyed raven but everybody keeps referring to him as he is still the child, not the old man inside the tree) in that case that kid didn't care about Jon been exile when he was the true heir of the throne, Just saying.
I was just thinking last night, that I really like Sophie Turner as Sansa, and that she has blinded me to the fact that show Sansa does in fact just suck. She undermines and manipulates Jon and Tyrion even when it really isn't in her best interest to do so. Will watch this soon, just wanted to say YES to your title.
Same thing with Cersei. S8 Cersei has done nothing but smirk and look out the window, coasting on the gravitas Headey brought to the character for the first five season.
VagabondAnne Yes, amazing performance! But Sansa truly is Catelyn, Cersei, and Littlefinger combo!
Tbh all the characters suck now. 🤣 I cant even think rn of a character I like currently.
I'm still amazed how dumb Tyrion has become and I don't understand the conflict with Jon, how someone is going to prove he's the heir? the seven kingdoms is really big covering that much ground would take a lot and I doubt the south would follow Jon who is practically a foreigner too and since when the lords give a crap about right birth, is obvious the one with the dragons would get the support no matter what.
@@danielhiguita5511 The records of that guy who recorded Rhaegar and Lyanna's secret wedding. But Idk how they're gonna prove that Lyanna was even pregnant or that Jon is the child she gave birth to. Lol. But dont worry, Jon won't be King. If he is, its just as bad as the other possiblity that was revealed in the leaks that may or may not be true.
Sansa in the books DOES bring up the butchers boy to The Queen of Thorns and labels it as one of the reasons Joffery is not a nice person. This is done in her first Chapter in A Storm of Swords.
Midgetwithahacksaw Sansa is a more complex character in the books, just like every POV, even Catelyn and Cersei, personally I really like the darker gray characters.
@@ocandro I agreed with their analysis on Book Cat because it made sense. Here, I think they meant to analyze Show Sansa but the added in pieces from the books.
This doesn't feel like a pure analysis based off the show. But rather a mix of both.
Sansa in the books starts off as a bit of a brat but slowly changes. Her story is a very slow one. But one I like nonetheless.
@@midgetwthahacksaw Thiss, also I really feel book Sansa being a naive child who 'see's the world through rose tinted glasses' in book 1, is Catlyn and Ned's fault. We can blame Catlyn more as she pushes harder, regarding being a lady and raising Sansa to expect good things from the world, and to place inherent worth upon someone's station in life.
In the first book Sansa and Arya equally try to save Ned from execution using the tools they've been taught thus far Arya wants to fight her way there directly and save him, while Sansa opts for appealing to the crown and throwing herself upon Joffrey and Cersei's mercy. Neither plan works, but the point is they both tried and failed. Those are the lessons and tools Sansa has available to her, in order to navigate through the world. Where Arya rebelled against those lessons from Catlyn and Septa Mordane, interacting with those beneath her, and essentially learning her own way. Sansa adhered to what she was taught, 'be pretty, be polite, don't associate with those beneath you, don't anger your future husband, courtesy is a ladies armour' these are the things Sansa knows.
A parent is supposed to prepare their children to one day survive in the world, yet Catlyn and Ned let Sansa go on believing in fairy-tales and seeing the world as a harmless place for way too long. In my opinion they both kind of failed her in that regard.
Yes, she also tells Ned the truth before being brought before the king and lying.
I prefer the book series. The characters feel more human and aren't as despicable as they are in the show.
I hope Dany feeds Sansa to Drogon. Since she's suddenly the "smartest person alive", I doubt it will happen
Who do I have to pay to make this happen?
@@steelpookie7597 Satan, since that's where this idea came from.
Garden Rose Does he have a Patreon account?? 😂😂
@@steelpookie7597 unfortunately, he only takes souls in exchange for favors.
@@roseofthegarden_ does he still accept goats or bunnies?
Actually she did put a target on Jon's back by telling Tyrion and eventually everyone and she betrays Jon when she tells Tyrion. Shocker!! I absolutely can't stand Sansa from the very first episode and time did nothing to change my mind.
Remember when Little Finger first offered her escape from Kings Landing after all the horrible things she went through and her family? She was for it... Until she was offered a marriage that would let her rule highgarten. Then she was like "nah. Im good little finger."
Love this but you know the crappy excuse the sansa fans will use....
"But sansa was just a child" em so that's wht she didn't care of arya died... she only cared about herself and her direwolf at the time. She's always been sneaky. She cares for nobody other than herself and what she wants
Yes!! I have always said Sansa looked super disappointed that Jon survived the battle of the bastards. That look she gives when she sees him running after Ramsay. Clearly upset Jon is still living
Oh boy. Because surely she can't be looking upset about Ramsay (the man who beat and raped her repeatedly and locked her in a tower) still being alive! It's obviously because Jon (her _only known remaining relative_ left) is chasing her psycho husband instead of being dead!
Nevermind she tried to warn him not to do anything foolish in order to protect him! 🤣🤣🤣 Nevermind that she has _zero motive_ for wanting Jon dead! She just-wants him gone for no reason at all!
Seems legit.
It's not a look of concern. Just displeasure.
@@roseofthegarden_ Oh and I guess NEVER MIND too that she couldn't shape her mouth to tell Jon that there was a reasonable possibility that the Vale's army was riding to join the fight. I think everyone would have been better served if she would have told Jon this bit of info instead of giving him vague warnings about how tricky Ramsey could be. Talk about burying the lead, LOL.
@@steelpookie7597 Except she didn't actually know that since she sent Littlefinger away before she made the call boo. And it's funny in the same breath ya'll trash Sansa for trusting Littlefinger, you then turn around and trash her again, for _not_ trusting him.
Which is it? The man sold her to her enemies, and she ended up getting beaten and raped repeatedly, god forbid she doesn't trust this dude to help or _want_ to be indebted to a man who did this to her, but fuck her reasoning right?
Fuck the fact that she said multiple times to Jon that they need more men and he was unwilling to make more effort to secure other houses because he thought it was pointless and the winter was coming.
No, they would've been saved if Jon had followed his own battle plan, instead of falling into Ramsay's trap like an idiot, abandoning his plan and forcing his troops to follow him blindly into battle, thus making it necessary for the Vale to save him in the first place.
Garden Rose 😂😂 how often do I have to say how funny you guys are. But I’m glad y’all are consistent, blaming Jon for Sansa’s failure to speak, smh. How ridiculous is that? I don’t care if Jon went out and did cartwheels during the battle it still doesn’t excuse Sansa for not tell Jon about LF BEFORE the battle. It’s not a question of trusting LF, Jon needed to know. And it doesn’t matter what battle plan Jon implemented he should have been aware of the possibility that the forces of the Vale may be on its way. This is just basic common sense. Your general needs to know how many troops he has available to him BEFORE the fight 😂 omg. Not to mention the Wildlings likely didn’t recognize the KoV and in the excited state they were in they likely started attacking them when they came to the rescue. Had Jon known he could have at least made them aware of their flag & sigil.
I like Jon but I’m more than willing to admit when he’s being clearly foolish like going after Ramsey especially once Rickon got hit by the arrows. Just stupid. But you Sansa fans can’t never admit when she’s clearly wrong and not telling the Jon about LF is clearly wrong. That’s not something that’s up for interpretation like judging Sansa’s facial expressions when she shows up with The KoV.
Also, just a side note and I don’t know why I bother 😂😂but I’m bored at the moment so I’ll try. Can you Sansa fans just admit that Sansa was a complete MORON while being talked into going back to WF when the Bolton had control. That is truly one of my favorite scenes in them series. 😂😂😂😂 Watching the oh so great Sansa looking all badass with her new hair and outfit and then seeing her revert to a child like status when she realizes LF is taking her to WF. I know y’all love to go the victim route here and say she was sold but regardless of deal LF & the Boltons had on the side Sansa’s dumbass got talked into it. First she screams and moans about a hunger strike 😂😂 and then LF puts on his best voice and convinces that idiot that going to WF is in her best interest 😂😂 too funny. I wonder why that isn’t on any Sansa fan video, I mean this is when she’s learning how to be a snake in the grass, right? 🤣
I know it’s not in your DNA to admit when Sansa does something stupid, I mean naive 😂, but I thought I’d point that scene out to you. Well about to head out so I’ll respectfully read whatever twisted logic you shoot back in a reply, then I’ll likely laugh and just move on. Enjoy your day.
I TOTALLY agree! Sansa would be an awful Queen. She’s always been pitiless, unsympathetic, and revengeful. PERIOD. But the TV Show will ignore her character arch and crown her Queen. She is a student of Cersei and Little Finger whose lessons she exclaimed she would never forget. A true HORRIFYING ending.
Way to ignore everything about Sansa's character. Truly living up to anti-Sansa shitty understanding of her character..
period? gross
Never liked her character! She's a snake in the grass.
Just like your mom
I guess you are speaking form your experience
@@kpopkoreankpop874 your mom is a snake in the grass? I am sorry,I hope you grow up to be a good being regardless KPOOP
Jon: "Swear It, To Never Tell Me Real Name!"
(Starks): "Swear It!
3 Hours Later.....
Sansa: "whAt iF theReS SoMeoNe bEtter!
Tyrion: "Who"
SMH Sansa 7 Hells man!!
I hate Show Sansa but do enjoy Book Sansa. Book Sansa is a tragic character and her actions make more sense due to her age.
Aging Sansa up in the show makes her look petty. While those same actions make more sense when compared against her age in the books.
yeah i agree. i feel like the aging up affected the likability of most the older stark children. like that line jon tells tyrion at the end of their first meeting; "what do you know about being a bastard"? that line works a lot better for a 14 year old boy than it does for a 20 year old looking man. a 14 y/o boy isn't going to understand the nuances of what it means to be a dwarf in westeros, whereas a young man might have a better grasp on the world they're living in. it's one of the reasons i didn't like show jon at the start.
no. the video already mentioned about Arya being YOUNG, but not a stupid traitorous btch because of her age. Age is not an excuse for what Sansa did in the books. ...
.....
"How well do I know that, child," Cersei said, her voice so kind and sweet. "Why else should you have come to me and told me of your father's plan to send you away from us if not for love?"
"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. She had never done anything so willful before, and she would never have done it then if she hadn't loved Joffrey as much as she did. "He was going to take me back to Winterfell and marry me to some hedge knight, even though it was Joff I wanted. I told him, but he wouldn't listen." The King had been her last hope. The King could command Father to let her stay in King's Landing and marry Prince Joffrey, Sansa knew he could, but the King had always frightened her. He was loud and rough-voiced and drunk as often as not, and probably would have just send her back to Lord Eddard, if they even let her see him. So she went to the Queen instead, and poured out her heart, and Cersei had listened and thanked her sweetly... only then, Ser Arys had escorted her to the high room in Maegor's Holdfast and posted guards, and a few hours later, the fighting had begun outside.
Mick Dundee Jon is 16 in that scene, so it still makes some sense.
@@Trustworthy_McLegitimate You do realize Sansa made a lot of her decisions because she was basically already arranged to marry Joffrey? That means the Lannisters were going to be her family. In the world of Westeros, once you're married off, you're basically split from your previous family. She was torn between staying loyal as a Stark and prioritizing her future relationships with the people she'd be seeing daily for the rest of her life. And in the end, she learned from her mistakes.
No her betrayal of Ned to Cersei is unforgivable. She told Cersei her Father's plans and got him and all his men killed.
If your talking about the show only, she was very happy that Joffrey broke their betrothal. She walked off smiling, happy that she was free of him.
Until she watched him marry Margaery
The Order of the Green Hand - She loathed Joffrey and she wasn't hiding it very well during the wedding. She looked like she wanted to be anywhere but there.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand She told Shae that she wanted Joffrey dead more than any other in the capital (season 2). And she begged Lady Olenna to not break the engagement between Margeary and Joffrey(season 3). So....
In the books too! On top of that she's terrified for Margaery and keeps thinking she can't let her marry that monster. Bonus: She has all those thoughts of how she wishes he would drink too much and break his neck or how she can't believe she ever found him attractive with his wormy lips.
At the end but at first even after joffrey butchered her father she still wanted to marry him and said her father was a traitor
Actually when they announced that he was going to marry her Sansa was excited! Don't you remember she turned around to walk away and started to laugh! She was excited she wasn't mad at all!
That was pretty obvious too. Idk how this guy missed that.
She was elated that Joffrey was marrying Margaery. Until Littlefinger scared the hell out of her and told her she would still be tortured. Joffrey would still never allow her to leave.
Tbh Idk how they interpreted that, "We have a new Queen" line as a sign that she wanted to be Joffrey's Queen or a Queen in general still. 🤣 To me it was more like mocking indifference.
Like the girl was almost raped in Season 2 and she talks about how the men who attacked hated her and she had never done anything to them and Shae explained to her that the dogs in the Castle or something like that ate better than their children etc. And Sansa says that if she had food to feed them, she'd give it to them. I dont remember the rest of scene, but nonetheless this video is trying to paint Sansa like she's just crazy for a Crown and there's nothing else to her character.
Like to me she just lived in a fantasy world of Prince Charmings, Knights and Songs so when Joffrey revealed himself to be anything but a Prince Charming, she tried to be blind to it for as long as possible until Ned literally lost his head and then she couldn't pretend anymore.
@@Lrodpotato That was one of the very few times that Sansa showed any empathy or caring toward others. She has been selfish since day one. Her "beloved Joffrey". Ugh *puke*. She wants to marry him and have his babies and they will be golden lions. When Ned wanted to send them home bc it wasn't safe, she had a fit (so did Arya). You're right though. She believed in fairy tales. But then she started playing the game of thrones....
@@hatindrama That's only because in the show she never really had the chance to be kind to anyone other than perhaps Ser Dontos Hollard and that's about it. I cant really think of any other situations where she was kind in the show but nonetheless the point I was trying to make is that considering how D&D write with utter disregard for the characters I doubt they even remember who Sansa was in season 1.
In the books, she's still rather self-centered and naive but slowly changing even if it's an extremely slow change. 🙄 But I find her first few POV chapters hilarious tbh because how full of herself and obnoxious she is even tho I don't like her. 🤣
Edit: I guess she was technically nice to Shae in show as she grew to know her and opened up to her despite her being a servant/handsmaid. Idk if that counts for anything.
I'm really hoping Dany says screw the throne, I want revenge. Just hops on Drogon and flies to Winterfell and show Sansa what Drogon is really capable of doing to a castle.
your fan fiction is silly.
Sansa already knew. That's why she didn't want the pyro anywhere near her people.
Nope she died in the book and show. I hope drogon in books burns winterfell to the ground. Justice for his mommy.
@@roseofthegarden_ Are you suggesting Sansa is telepathic??,, Sansa is nothing but a racist
Jeff Pryce there are hints that she could be resurrected too
With regard to the Battle of the Bastards, there's something I missed for a long time until pretty recently. Sansa never thought they would get Rickon back. She only used him as a tool to get Jon to do what she wanted him to do, when he was otherwise too traumatized to be motivated to fight. You've hit on a few similar things here (wrt her attitude towards Rickon), but not that one, so I thought I'd add it to the pile.
Everyone on show sucks now! Lol. Everyone. Tyrion is not smart anymore, Arya has thicc plot armour, Jon is dumb, Dany is mass murderer and so on. Only Cersei got better, more smarter in show.
Brij Manek cersei was not smarter, she got decision right that functioned in the small run, but nothing in the long run... and s lot of Luck and plot convenience so she remains an antagonist till the penultimate episode cause Lena Heady did a great job; don‘t think book Cersei will live that long or hold power that long
@@michelmorio8026 she is a lot dumber in Books. Like a complete bimbo.
@@thefoodyjournal she is a complete bimbo. No Wonder Jaime ditched her, tywin ignored her and wanted to marry her off, while tyrion in the books dreams about killing her.
Cersei relies on the cleverness of Qyburn as admitted multiple times in the show to various characters that she was scorning.
lol i think she only got smarter directly because everybody else got WAY dumber
Thank you for this. Sansa fans forget so easily and misinterpret so much....
LOL. Nah, that's Sansa antis.
Whats more frustrating is that the show acts like she's so god damn smart and a brilliant tactician, but she doesnt really do much of anything. She didnt do jack shit for herself in kings landing, and didnt even try to aid any other conspiracies or anything. This is when characters like Littlefinger started talking about how smart she was, and it made zero sense. Because once again, Littlefinger did ALL the work to get her out of kings landinig and into the Vale, and he is the one got rid of Lysa, again, without any help from Sansa. Then she sits around doing nothing at the Boltons, sitting on her ass just like she did in kings landing, until Theon does all the work and helps her escape.
Up to this point in the show Sansa has done no scheming, no planning, no strategizing, no fighting, and generally no decisive action of any kind on her own. But now suddenly that she's in Winterfell with Jon we're supposed to believe she's this brilliant aspiring ruler? Since fucking when? Now she's walking around giving advice to blacksmiths and knights, despite her never showing literally any interest or knowledge in such things EVEN ONCE before hand. Her only big moves are not telling Jon about the knights of the Vale for basically no reason at all, and killing Littlefinger, something that she never could have done without her brother who can see all past and future events. Calling that a good move is like praising a chess player for checkmating their opponent when all of their pieces are queens, its not impressive because of the staggering advantage she was gifted.
And then at the end we're just supposed to expect that her being queen is gonna fly with everyone? Dorne didnt bend the knee to the Targaryens for a hundred years and they had fucking dragons, whats going to stop them from rebelling if the north gets to be free? Same goes for the Iron Islands. So congratulations Sansa, you just divided Westeros even worse than the war of the five fucking kings did. I hate the direction they took Sansa so god damn much.
Sansa has never set her sights on the Iron Throne. Her goal was to marry the prince and have his babies. She wanted to be a King's wife, not a ruler, and she dropped this dream back in Season 1 or early Season 2. All she wanted after this was her home. This is a mischaracterization.
Boudicca thank you for being one of the few persons which‘s Brain still works... but I get it, now that Dany sucks, Sansa needs a character assassination too
Allmost all the accusations are made ups or misinterpretations of the scenes, like in a rigged trial in a third world corrupt state
Michèl Morio - I know, it's gotten so ridiculous. I've even seen people saying it is Sansa's fault that Dany destroyed KL. Sad to see even previously reputable content creators sinking to this level. I'm glad someone else has a mind of their own and hasn't joined in on the hive mind of Sansa hate. Cheers!
@@KHH595 Sansa is trash, she should of supported dany after she saved the north, instead sansa plotted to put Jon on the throne over her for no reason whatsoever. Ungreatfulness is a terrible human trait, she is an oath breaker.
@@michelmorio8026 Sansa character assassination???, Her character is worse than dany in my eyes lol
The Moon Is Not Real I can‘t remember I asked your opinion...
But apparently being ungrateful is worse kann killing tens or hundreds of thousands... you belong to the sort of people who 100% still find Stannis worse than Dany (show only)
And like it of not, Jon (show only) HAS MORE claim than „Ms. I will take what is mine, with fire and blood, I will take it“
My opinion is that bad writing has tried to make her dark and cold, as a result of the hardship she has gone through (which is true, she is that), by having her make decisions that are in any case stupid. I mean she still could be a hard and cold character without hiding the existence of the Vale knights from Jon and let half of their army get killed... This thing did not make any sense! Like, don't you care about the people you are going to lose? Why not have them attack all together and be stronger? She said that Jon didn't ask her? Come on, that is the most idiotic thing ever! It looks like it was done only for the entry scene with Sansa having the I-told-you face on!
Λύντια Ντιτζ the Vale army thing made sense; it lured Ramsey out of the castle to fight this little army of Jon and then destroy most of Ramsey‘s army...
but now, everyone is placing their armies in front of the castle walls and it‘s just bad writing
Thank you for posting this, I never understood people saying "but Sansa been through so much, she changed so much". The reality is, she never Changed. Yes, she got into bad things, but that's the same for all Starks, they all suffered terrible. Theres one great difference between Sansa and the other Starks though. They all suffered for doing the righteous things, caring more about others then their own good. Sansa however always suffered because she made terrible and selfish decisions not only resulting in her own pain, but also of her Family. A great example for this is actually not mentioned in the video: Ned gets beheaded because he cares about his daughter as she cares more about being princess. Yet when the surviving Starks meet, Sansa is the only one crying about what she's been through, like Aria, Bran and Jon were on Holiday... Especially Jon had to kill his own Men (including children...), see his love die and was actually killed by his own men... But yeah, Sansa is the only one who suffered... The one good thing about her is that she always stayed true to her character: a terrible and selfish person. RIP all good Characters that were either killed of or totally destroyed by writing.
Great comment!
None of the Sansa fan girls can rply to this point
Justice for Daenerys
Mycah: *exists*
Joffery: I'm about to cut open this mans whole face.
Sansa: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that.
Arya: EXCUSE ME WHAT THE FUCK
Yes I am on the WTF is with Sansa for years... This season actually made me question how much I like Aria because of her blindly fallowing Sansa
I have never liked Sansa Stark and show Sansa was throwing shade at Dany 4 no reason. What about the North? Ends up as Queen of the North after manipulating Jon.
Omg thank you.
Been trying to explain to idiots lately that Sansa is not some good, genius leader.
She is truly her mother's daughter.
all about the Tully hate train! except for Blackfish. he is a true hero and a real human being.
Yep, Blackfish disowned his family, so he's not a true Tully to me. He's the only decent person in that family, honestly.
@@rhaenyralikesyoutube6289 Not to be too confrontational, but I feel compelled to point out that Blackfish was willing to sacrifice the peasants while Edmure was not. The Blackfish may be smarter, but Edmure did not lack for decency.
The thing is, that we all felt like we were supposed to like Sansa and sympathise with her because of her rape-storyline and we did. For one season maybe. Then she was back to being petty and manipulating people left and right.
Congratulations, she manipulated her way to a very lonely and isolated top.
Cersei would be proud.
Everything about her childhood can be explained through her upbringing. She was the perfect highborn lady and acted exactly like she was expected to. And the paranoia and almost cruel pragmatism she exibits at the end is not very surprising after all the abuse she suffered. The demise of her family tought her exactly what honor and being led by your emotions gets you in the end in Westeros.
Psychopathy is a bit farfetched but it seems to be a trend to diagnose people that aren't overly emotional with that.
When Sansa told Dany the troops needed rest I instantly thought that she was trying to stall her for some plan
You did not think it was necessary for men who just fought ferociously to recover from their wounds, like say an internal organ stabbed or an exposed flesh due to fire or blade? Those guys didn't go to the gym and had a hard day... they fought a battle that they almost lost if the Night King did not die.
@@ignisinvictus She wasn't taking them to KL that day. And it had to have already been a couple of days since they had time to gather & burn all the bodies. And when Dany left with her troops it was to sail home to Dragonstone.
Also Dany's troops are Unsullied & Dothraki, both raised as soldiers from childhood and able to withstand things normal men would break under.
@@ignisinvictus Ok, you know you aren't making any sense. They wouldn't take men who couldn't fight. And I think men who have their internal organs stabbed fall in that category, lol.
Plus, this turned into a game between Sansa and Dany. Sansa was going to oppose any idea Dany had just to be in opposition of Dany and in turn Dany was going to find a reason to disagree with Sana. It was a game in the game and this is why common sense strategy got thrown out the window. If Dany would have said she needed to stay and let her men recover I truly believe Sansa would have started complaining about food and medical supplies. Sansa was an idiot trying to push Dany's buttons after Dany just saved her ass. And Dany's dumb ass allowed her buttons to be pushed.
Which proves you have a natural disposition to think the worst about Sansa, regardless of whether there is actual logic to it. Anyone with common sense could tell that Sansa was being sincere about making sure the soldiers rested after they literally just got out of a war. Even Arya looked at Dany like she was crazy.
Jon Snow, Lord Commander should've known this was necessary, but he was sucking up because he wanted to appease Daenerys after her breakdown in their bedroom and he knew Dany was butthurt that Sansa didn't like her, so she wanted to assert dominance. That's why her dragon died.
Garden Rose I believe your comment that you have a natural disposition to only think the best about Sansa and anyone with common sense can see that. And in this particular situation I believe both Dany & Sansa are wrong which I made clear in my comment.
Also, leaving early didn’t get her dragon killed. Sansa fans love to say that to help Sansa look smarter. What got her dragon killed was Dany not looking out for Euron’s fleet and Varys failing to use his web of spy’s to tell Dany Cersei had a new weapon in play. This scene between Dany & Sansa, much like the one between Arya & Sansa in s7, makes sense from both sides. Yes the troops needs rest but like Dany said the longer she waits the stronger her enemies get. Which turn out to be the case. Imagine how many more scorpions would have been built had Dany waited longer. And Euron’s fleet would have had a chance to only grow. Both were right and both were wrong. But as usual the Sansa fanatics see everything Sansa does as wonderful, just too funny 😂
Glad I'm not the only one who's disappointed in season 8. Great video as usual guys!
But you gotta admit; who wouldn't want to turn Ramasy into dog chow?
VLP infinity - True, but I would not want my sweet Yorkie boy Mr. Baggins to swallow even a drop of Ramsay. You are what you eat!
Sansa has always acted like the world revolves around her. She is a naive, bratty and incredibly childish girl. She is the sort of person who cares more about the packaging than what's in the inside. The horrible things that had been done to her could have been avoided or at least stopped quicker if she didn't have the stupid dream to be a queen
All the Sansa stans claiming superiority over her character at the end of Game Of Thrones pissed me off.
When you're young, you believe the treatment Sansa was suffering was undeserved. When you get older, you realize it was completely karmic. Her selfishness, disloyalty to her family, and willful ignorance of the blatantly obvious (that Joffrey and his mother were terrible people, among other things) got an innocent child, a young dire wolf, and her own father killed. Unfortunately, it was not karmic enough; she only learns to become even more sociopathic than she was at the beginning, and gets rewarded for it.
Im not Sansa fan but last season Sansa is the only one speaks logic
Telling Tyrion Jon's secret was the smart and right thing to do. She did the opposite of what her dumb father did. Ned kept Cersei's secret and we saw where that got him and the people. Sansa knows that the people in the North are fucked if Dany takes the throne, and they are more important than her brother's aunty relationship.
If they're more important she should have told jon about knights of the vale before the war she just wanted to be the savior and wanted the northeners to believe in her and let her men die and was upset when she saw jon survived the slaughter
Did you see the look of envy and almost lust on Sansa's face when Daenerys left the North with her Dragons. "Why her" she told Tyrion. I have never resonated with Sansa, although I do think it was a terrible thing that happened to her with Ramsey Bolton. At this point Daenerys should just fly off on Drogon far far away. I am too heartbroken at what they have done to her. They do not deserve her and she is now Queen of the Ashes (such meteoric tragedy)
The thing that is most annoying about Sansa is how little she learns from her mistakes. In season 2 The Hound gave her a chance to escape King's Landing and go with him and she refused. Was this a foolish decision? Maybe, maybe not. The Hound wasn't exactly the most trusthworthy person, and it might not have been worth taking the risk. But then again in season 3 Little Finger gives her the opportunity to escape with him, but since she is so preoccupied with the idea of getting married to Loras Tyrell she chose to stay in the Capital. If she were half as smart as Arya seems to think she is she would have at least considered the possibility that things might have gone wrong as they tend to do in King's landing. She knew just how dangerous Cersei and Joffrey were, and that she was a hostage, yet she chose to stay instead of possibly being able to reunite with Robb and her Mother.
when the actor yells at fans for the petition and then her reputation tanks immediately. She is the least liked character in the show
After the battle of king landing I would fly that dragon to winterfell and burn it to the ground with sansa in it
Late finding this channel but thank you for reflecting exactly my view on Sansa. Particularly when she didn't tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale in the Battle of the Bastards. How many men died unnecessarily? Jon could have delayed the battle and saved a lot of lives. Ramsey may have even capitulated without a fight.
10:02 Wait why did you make it sound like a point against her that she enjoyed seeing her tormentor Ramsay eaten? I don't like sansa either but let's not pretend Ramsay didn't deserve much worse than he got.
Vault Dweller cause this video has to serve the agenda to portray her as bad as possible
@@michelmorio8026 Even at the cost of looking like hypocrites? They excuse and even root for dany to carry out justice but when sansa does just that with Ramsay it's a piece of what makes her a terrible person? Like I said I'm not a fan of her and I usually love Greenhand vids but that point in particular bugged me especially with his condescending tone.
Vault Dweller they seem pissed „St. Dany“ is portrayed „evil“, now her rival must be put into the dirt
@@michelmorio8026 Facts they are petty. Sansa fans won't turn on her now anyway so it's pretty pointless.
@@michelmorio8026 lol... Sansa is not even close to being a rival... she's petty
I do like the season 8 theorizing, but it does give D&D too much credit I think.
Definitely does, they are Dumb and Dumber after all, any fan has more clue as to what's going on than them.
So who the fuck made the show before s8? Sigh...everyone is a goddamned expert these days
@@michaelriley8879 Stop it, don't act as if they weren't ridding the cocktails of GRRM amazing storytelling.
Exactly they stopped giving characters reasons and depth from season 5 and 6 just look at tyrion breaking the wheel why would tyrion care about braking the wheel all of a sodden makes no sense it's just bad writting no reason to try and explain it
she wanted Jon dead don't @ me.
I find it extremely odd that on one anywhere I’ve looked mentions that it’s Sansa who goes to Cersei to rat out Ned’s plans to return north, thus setting in motion EVERYTHING that follows. Sansa is a snitch. Sure, she gets some training from Cersei, but her betryal of her father is all Sansa’s doing, born of her selfish desires.
We didn’t bring it up because we based this solely on the show
The Order of the Green Hand I thought she did it on the show. Sorry. It’s hard to keep separate tabs on slithery Sansa.
Sansa is Dumb and Dumber's ideal for a "strong woman." Powerful, amoral, manipulative, and ungrateful. She was played with like a toy with the Lannisters until Tyrion married her. Since then' he's literally risked life and limb to protect her, mainly by threatening Joffery. Does he even get a simple "thank you?" Nope. Instead, she condescends about his intelligence the next time they finally meet. The other strong woman Dumb and Dumber wrote snapped and went bonkers because she won an overwhelming victory...
She really is terrible. Turner's stuck up expression that's glued on her face doesn't help one bit.
I knew there was a good reason why I didn't like Sansa. Thanks for clearing that up
Show Sansa has the same problem as show Cersei when it comes to wanting to be Queen in a medieval-like setting. They both won no wars, or bled blood for their armies, or ever defeated a worthy foe with their own hands yet they both expect men to blindly follow them. Even if Sansa were to manipulate her way to the crown, she too would be over-thrown quickly by someone willing to take the crown by force, the same way Dany did Cersei.
Foe4Life Sansa never wanted the Iron Throne though and she doesn't want it now. She wanted to be a King's wife, bear him children and live a fairytale life, not to rule over people.
@@KHH595 that's what she actually wanted In season 8 when Tyrion suggest bran to be the king she was visibly upset even though bran is a stark and all kingdoms were ruled by a stark she wanted to seperate the north from the seven so that atleast she can be queen in the north
Your video on Cat made me realize she was awful, and yes Sansa sucks LOL "Whatever you do, don't tell Sansa" =)
Now it's not a secret anymore is information
@@MegaKapo12 that was such a great line by Varys
the part where margaery becomes new queen-to-be, sansa is defo HAPPY and relieved. she was pretending to be upset because that's the "appropriate" response. you guys are seeing things that aren't there.
this whole queen obsession died when she saw her father beheaded. come on now, this isn't a fair analysis of sansa.
We referenced the actual wedding
after ned's death, she was just trying to get by. i get that she kept making iffy mistakes, but now i appreciate how truly gray her character is. the dynamic between her and arya is so good to watch, but the truth is that arya has the setup that tells you right away she's one of the heroes whereas sansa is more like most girls who wouldn't really know how to fight and would just try to get by when they are all alone among what seems to be a sea of enemies.
she would have thrown joffrey back in the scene where he forced her to look at the heads in the spikes if not for the hound whose job was to look after joffrey at the time. even joffrey didn't flinch right away or step back, meaning joffrey had poor reflexes and would have been pushed if the hound didn't stop sansa. early on, there is a very subtle setup right there that tells you sansa is still one of the starks but most people either forget this or miss it entirely.
@The Order of the Green Hand
i appreciate the replies btw. you are quite a vigorous GoT / ASOIAF channel.
Hmm, you conveniently left out where she stands up to Joffrey for Ser Dontos. And there are many other scenes where she shows compassion. No way she is a psychopath. You also left out her competence as a leader. She is a light grey character. There are many worse possibilities for rulers.
I like you guys and sansa isn't written well (but what character is nowadays). But I think some of your 'evidence for how much she sucks doesn't quite work. When she say "all shes ever wanted" shes talking about marrying a handsome prince, having his babies, and being in a fairytale (like alot of 14 year olds). Qnd when margaery becomes betrothed to joffery she smiles and laughs, shes relieved that it wont be her. I honestly dont know what they were trying to get across with that "we have a new queen now" line, but I read it as a dig at Cersei. Also she doesn't always only care for herself, she saves ser dontos because she doesn't like watching him be tortured and she was asking for joffery to stop and just go back with her when he starts messing with arya and micha. And, even though its dumb, she didnt want to use littlefingers help. She was pissed at him and didnt want to rely on him and his forces. She still should have told jon they were an option, but it didnt seem like some underhanded attempt at getting jon killed. It seems like you guys just really really dislike her and are looking for any tiny thing you can use to make assumptions about how awful she is. I dont blame sansa for any of that stuff that's happened since season 6 though, I blame the writers, in trying to make her seem "cool, strong, and intelligent" they ended up making her look petty and annoying and backstabbing. But what can you expect from D&D?
Chandra Wagner - All good points!
@@kateruane59 thanks!
You left out an important turning point that led to the death of Ned Stark. Sansa disobeyed her father and told the queen that her father was sending her and her sister back to Winterfeld - What a disloyal child and what a self-centered brat
We left it out because she didn’t do that in the show
That's also meant to highlight her naivety. How her actions, however thoughtless and without malice, have real-world concequences. How is an 11 year-old supposed to know that would happen?
Arya is very intuitive for her age and quite observant. But most children, let alone girls, are NOT like that. They are like Sansa.
Most 11 year old girls are selfish and self-centered and have flights of fancy in their heads about boys and marriage. Especially in the World of Westros.
Sansa made a huge mistake. One that ended with dire consequences. But, how can she be expected to know that would happen? She too trusting of adults she doesn't know. Afterwards, she changes how she feels about Joffery and the Queen and everyone else.
Sansa is a child who makes mistakes children would make without knowing the world of adults. You can't expect an 11 year old to play the game effectively.
@@midgetwthahacksaw Her sister, 3yrs younger, seems to understand family loyalty and was able to obey her father.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand . Check back to when the king's council manipulated Sansa to write her brother imploring him to come and bend the knee. Cerci complimented Sansa for coming to her to tel her about her father's treason. That was in the show.
@@anthonymartin3529 Arya is the exception, not the rule.
And the second Arya is a loving sister she's BRAIN DEAD. Guys She's been Brain-Dead since Season Six. Brain-Dead and Super-Powered
I love this video, Sansa is the absolute worst imo. She adds nothing of value and is a terrible person overall.
Speaking only from the book perspective, Sansa seems like a character that's a lot more plausible than Arya-NoT-lIkE-tHe-OtHeR-gIrls. Sansa is not perfect, she's entitled, extremely naive and selfish...which I find very normal for a high born eleven years old. She was raised to have a romantic notions of the world and to be courteous, feminine and polite. And guess what, Arya may be such a badass, but she's unruly, impolite and prone to impulsive actions that bring her and other troubles. I get why Arya is a fan favorite, I really enjoyed her chapters in the war torn riverlands with the brotherhood without banners. Yet, I also loved Sansa's chapter where we get to see her become more and more aware of the false courtesy and schemes of everyone in King's Landing. I also love all of the small thoughts she starts having about Joffrey like 'he hopes he drinks too much and breaks his neck'. She realises that all of her expectations and dreams were stupid. They brought her so much misery.
She learns this the hard way, she witnesses her dad being executed in front of her (partially because of her actions sure, but Ned did a pretty good job at this too lol) and is kept a hostage, married and beaten in front of court by fucking sociopath Cersei and Joffrey...I mean geez. She responds through courtesy and compliance because doing the opposite will only get her killed.
She's obviously not perfect and makes stupid decisions....like everyone else. Just because she's not a cool stabbing-tomboy 10-years old doesn't make her a terrible person. I love the insight we get of a highborn lady navigating such a complex political place like KL court.
@@ykMMD I think Sansa is unlikable but I really enjoy what characters like Sansa add to the story. I don't get the vitriol surrounding her when the story would be worse without her.
To be fair, Joffrey _was_ reinforcing the social hierarchy. Peasants aren't allowed to have weapons, or military training.
I blame Arya for putting the poor kid up to it in the first place. Arya breaks the rules of social conventions, and the peasant kid dies for it.
good point.
@@dburgd99
Gotta keep the peasants in line.
Right. She seems to doesnt know her Resposebilitys as a Noble, like when she turned down Gendrys Offer to marry him, i just thought "Honey thats not really up to you, Peasants can marry for Love, if Nobles do the same... well ask youre Brother Robb how that works out"
@@clantoriador8397
Right. The show stopped caring about the feudal setting & the social order a long time ago.
They don't seem to understand that the "feminist" (yikes) critique of the story is rooted in the patriarchal hierarchy of feudalism.
Good point. But Arya was just a kid and was encouraged by her father to treat everyone well. Remember that in the books, Ned would invite members of his household staff and soldiers at the dining table on rotation to get to know them. The children of Winterfell were friends with sons and daughters of their servants. The sad thing is that stepping out of Winterfell, the rules changed to society's norms and what you said about social conventions holds true in that regard.
I *HATE* show Sansa. Making everyone around her stupid does not make her clever. I do not understand her sudden idea of an independent North. Where does that come from?! She is literally the only of the Stark children who has no connection with the North. She betrayed her family in S1 and her direwolf died for it. That was, for me at least, the last or only part of the north in her.
I honestly would prefer and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE evil, Machivellian Sansa over dumb, useless Sansa. Would love love love it!
She learned a great Deal from Cersei... nuff said^^
@@ottersirotten4290 Meh, don't care much for either version and to be honest I don't think there's much of a difference between the two.
It certainly seems to have been her intended arc, which has gone out the window on the show. Now I have to deal with people in my life saying they love cold-hearted, snotty Sansa more every week, not as a villain, but as an ideal