It’s amazing playing like always and it sounds cool 👍 I wonder, I have seen this for some years back is it also cool? I found it quite interesting? And a bit funny too? 😅 th-cam.com/video/qovxaa2TsvY/w-d-xo.html
I love Shawn's expanding grin as he goes: "Let me play you a polyrhythm with my feet, while I solo over it with my hands. Not too complicated, is it? Alright, let me add all these accents both in the hands AND feet over it. Nope, still doesn't do it for me - let me split my extremities VERTICALLY and effortlessly play 5/16 and 6/16 AT THE SAME TIME. You actually thought I was gonna stop here, didn't you? LOL NO, GET THIS!" I had to rewind certain bits of this video just to keep up with Shawn's explanations. Brilliant work as always, Shawn!
my hihat foot has the tendency to drift in terms of tempo if i don't stay on top of it, but i've found that if i just let it go on autopilot while playing something unrelated with my hands and right foot, it will actually settle into a consistent tempo that's not the same as the one i'm consciously playing in. it isn't controllable though, and it's more of a nuisance than a usable musical "skill". so, i can play in two tempos at once, but not musically or controllably.
Yep! This is precisely why I'm not a fan of the word 'independence' to mean 'coordination'. In examples like this video, I have to constantly monitor *everything* at once and quickly switch my focus back & forth between all parts to keep everything 'on track'. I see it as 'one thing'. Otherwise, like you said, things can drift. That's why I prefer Marco Minnemann's term "interdependence" -- that feel's much more accurate to me.
@@ShawnCrowder I'd love to see if someone could actually train their autopilot to consistently play a specific tempo unconsciously, and be able to use that to do polyrhythms without having to think about the interdependence
@@famitory I've been asking around a few neuroscientists on this topic, all indeed pointed to conscious attention to be singular indeed. You can move your attention from one thing to the other (quickly), but never really split it.
@@sytsew right, my hihat foot is using my... unconscious attention? and if i pay attention to it for even a second it immediately gets awkwardly yanked back into time with my other limbs. i'd love to know exactly what part of the brain drives this free-running autopilot, if it is the motor cortex or something else
I'm not even a drummer, but the amount of info that can be translated into other instruments, even electronic music here is a gold mine. Thanks Shawn 👏👏
There's a classical Italian term, pensato (Italian: "thought") it's an imaginary note written in the score, but the player I'd instructed to just think the note and not play it, you've expanded it to a whole pensato time signature, it would appear on the score so you could argue for it existing a s a silent third time signature
Thank you for the awesome video! My first take on approaching the same subject was to combine 5:4 with 4:3 and play what is essentially a 20:15:12 polyrhythm in 20/16: cymbal on every 3rd beat, kick on every 4th and snare on every 5th. After getting the basic groove together it has been really fun to experiment with fills, subdivisions and alternative accents.
A fantastic example is the middle section in the Punch brothers' song The Angel of Doubt. Where the time is 7/4 but the band accents every second quarter note so it gives a 4/4 feeling. Very cool and works really well and that's what it's about. It's a complex musical thought that's there because it serves the song.
Jacob collier does this sometimes. In his cover of close to you there's a part where the bass is playing quintuplets, the drums are in duplets and the keys are in septuplets really interesting mixing all of these crazy rhythms into something that sticks together and makes sense
The whole of pyt is awesome. Soon I'm going g to start learning how to play that bass part. That's the kind of bass line that you cant ever really perfect so I think it's gonna be a good thing to practicr
9:00 When we say a "7-note sticking" are we thinking septuplets? I can understand 4/4 (or 8/8) over 6/8 fine enough, but the 7 and 5 groupings seem to loop quickly enough back around that they must be tuplets? If the were 7/8 or 7/16 then the accent would travel all over the place until coming back around many loops later. I feel like some sheet or visualization would have helped me more.
Loved your take! I’m a big fan of techniques like this after watching Marco Minneman doing something like this. Interdependence I think he called it. (I’m not a drummer, but a bassist obsessed with time signatures).
I can't imagine the wood pile of sticks you went through to get these skills. Also, one thing that I think that can add to the illusion (ala Zeldman) is to have way more timbres that are associated with "hands" available to the feet, so pedal snares, cowbells and such. So, that 5/16 could be left hi-hat, left snare, left tom, left foot bass, left foot snare. And the right foot could also move around from bass drum, cowbell, snare (or tom). But, you'd probaly need DW (or the like) to donate you a lot (a lot of gear) to show that. Which they totally should.
you got to see Yogev Gabay's channel, he do a series about polyritmics that is beautiffully explained and graphicated. her channel is growing slowly but it's awesome
I am kinda working on something like this... I like the way you think and somehow our thoughts kinda are same... In some sort of way i guess... I love these kinda talks... Thanks for this video... It makes me feel a less weird one and lonely. Cheers love and respect from india.
yeah i remember learning how to play a 7 clave over 5 clave, over a 2/4 ostinato... 10 years ago or more, easy if you scratch lines in a paper and just read it until you got it
Could you create a guide to teach, how to practice two micro timings against each other? (Like this Quintuplet against the 5 16th thing) That twist's my mind and ears even more!
There was a woman burned as a witch because she made an apple completely within a dumpling. The Inquisition knows what you just did there. Only witches can put time inside of time. And weigh as much as a duck.
At some point, my music will just become incomprehensibly complex and YOU are partially guilty for teaching me the black magic of rhythm. Well you and Tigran Hamasyan.
U can learn poly's by playing Meshuggah and Intronaut tracks. Almost all their stuff contains crazy poly's. After a while, you may start to notice that there is a similarity between the relationships of the "common" poly-rhythms, (odd over even, etc.) and you can begin to play them by ear and just "feel" the time signatures before knowing what they actually are.
Thumbs up! There's 'underrated' drummer, @DennyAJD who plays 4 polymeter and stuff like this since the late 90's. Gotta check him out bro.
4 ปีที่แล้ว
Hey, I do listen the 6/8 (before you said it was actually 6/8 I heard the bass drum ostinato in 3/4) so, yeah there are parts where you're actually comunicating 3 time signatures at once.
This is insane. I am still trying to figure out how to play a 4 pattern in one limb and a 3 pattern in the other. Like in something like the Purdie/Rosannna shuffle where the hit hat is playing a 3 pattern, but the kick is playing a 4 pattern. It's so hard! Lol
For some reason, I find 7 even beats played over 2 bars of 4/4 particularly hard to 'feel' as one rhythm when both play at the same time. Especially if the 4/4 part accents it's down-beat but the 7 has no accents.
Hey man, I dont know how to read music notes/sheet music. if possible could you make a vid explaining complex polymeric time signatures like this but without notes. I've been playing drums for 10, almost 11 years now and I want to play stuff like this, complex polyrhythmic patterns/grooves. That would be an amazing help bro. Anyways, keep up the great content bro!
I think after 10 years of playing the drums you might want to spend a few hours catching up on sheet music. Drum sheet music is by far the easiest to understand. Otherwise you’re speaking a language you cannot write. It will only get you so far.
It will take you probably literally 15x longer to understand this complexity without sheet music. I suggest getting lessons to learn more about theory. Drum transcript is easy to understand :)
"So you will hear this bass drum pattern in 4/4, as 1 and e 2 and e 3 and e 4 and e" *inserts clip of the pattern played at 500,000 bpm Me going "1 and..." - clip over, pattern played twice 😄 I work too much. My brain can't musc anymore
i just came here after i saw your japanese channel, its sad that you skipped that channel, but i really want to know if you got fluent in japanese or not after 3 years, please reply
when making that song were you actively thinking of playing two signatures at once or did you just write some weird patterns in 6/8 and it kinda happened?
@@ShawnCrowder Would you say that ostinato is/was something so ingrained that you could easily try stacking other rhythms on top, or did you first have to find some kind of (fake) match between the upper and lower limbs? Great video BTW, first one that really cracks my mind!
I can play in 4/4 and 2/4 at the same time. #fancy
Oh you fancy, huh? ;P
@@Skradgee I mean I can also play guitar bass piano uke. Lol so kinda ;)
Watch out; we got a badass over here
I can do 6/4 and 4/4 at the same time
Also
JACOB COLLIER
LIKE NO SHIT
this is so insane, the amount of skill this takes is just mind bending
shawn crowder: phonon is really good with polyrhythms
phonon: shawn crowder is so skilled with polyrhythms
lmao
No u
It’s amazing playing like always and it sounds cool 👍 I wonder, I have seen this for some years back is it also cool? I found it quite interesting? And a bit funny too? 😅 th-cam.com/video/qovxaa2TsvY/w-d-xo.html
holy sht I love your music man
Nothing like making the rest of the band go: “Where’s the 1?” 🤨😂
Which one
More like Hey Vinnie, wheres 5?
I love Shawn's expanding grin as he goes: "Let me play you a polyrhythm with my feet, while I solo over it with my hands. Not too complicated, is it? Alright, let me add all these accents both in the hands AND feet over it. Nope, still doesn't do it for me - let me split my extremities VERTICALLY and effortlessly play 5/16 and 6/16 AT THE SAME TIME. You actually thought I was gonna stop here, didn't you? LOL NO, GET THIS!"
I had to rewind certain bits of this video just to keep up with Shawn's explanations.
Brilliant work as always, Shawn!
my hihat foot has the tendency to drift in terms of tempo if i don't stay on top of it, but i've found that if i just let it go on autopilot while playing something unrelated with my hands and right foot, it will actually settle into a consistent tempo that's not the same as the one i'm consciously playing in. it isn't controllable though, and it's more of a nuisance than a usable musical "skill". so, i can play in two tempos at once, but not musically or controllably.
or i suppose to be more accurate, my motor cortex can play in two tempos at once, but my consciousness can only play in one.
Yep! This is precisely why I'm not a fan of the word 'independence' to mean 'coordination'. In examples like this video, I have to constantly monitor *everything* at once and quickly switch my focus back & forth between all parts to keep everything 'on track'. I see it as 'one thing'. Otherwise, like you said, things can drift. That's why I prefer Marco Minnemann's term "interdependence" -- that feel's much more accurate to me.
@@ShawnCrowder I'd love to see if someone could actually train their autopilot to consistently play a specific tempo unconsciously, and be able to use that to do polyrhythms without having to think about the interdependence
@@famitory I've been asking around a few neuroscientists on this topic, all indeed pointed to conscious attention to be singular indeed. You can move your attention from one thing to the other (quickly), but never really split it.
@@sytsew right, my hihat foot is using my... unconscious attention? and if i pay attention to it for even a second it immediately gets awkwardly yanked back into time with my other limbs. i'd love to know exactly what part of the brain drives this free-running autopilot, if it is the motor cortex or something else
Yo Dawg, we heard you like polyrhythms so we put polyrhythms inside your polyrhythms so you can polyrhythm while you're polyrhythming
Love the way your drums are tuned and the way you record them. 👍
Anyone know what kick drum heads he's using?
Thanks. Evans EMAD on the kick :)
When I see this, I get why paradiddles are important.
6:00 that sounds like Adam's voice, is it him speaking?
Holy shit it does
who would be a better music police than Adam. ;D I'm pretty sure it's him :)
I'm not even a drummer, but the amount of info that can be translated into other instruments, even electronic music here is a gold mine. Thanks Shawn 👏👏
Amazing ! Now I'd love to find the video "how to learn to play two time signatures at once" !
Dude your snare sounds so crisp. Your videos melt my mind
There's a classical Italian term, pensato (Italian: "thought") it's an imaginary note written in the score, but the player I'd instructed to just think the note and not play it, you've expanded it to a whole pensato time signature, it would appear on the score so you could argue for it existing a s a silent third time signature
I love how friendly and encouraging Shawn is in these videos, it makes you feel like he’s your friend
Thank you for the awesome video!
My first take on approaching the same subject was to combine 5:4 with 4:3 and play what is essentially a 20:15:12 polyrhythm in 20/16: cymbal on every 3rd beat, kick on every 4th and snare on every 5th. After getting the basic groove together it has been really fun to experiment with fills, subdivisions and alternative accents.
"What would you do if you had a million dollars?"
"I tell you what I'd do, man... two time signatures at the same time, man."
The way you just casually play these insanely complicated drum beats is just great 😊
Defund the groove police! (Also, you’re a madman, Shawn- incredible playing!)
Im hearing alot of Mike Mangini here.. AWESOME. Very interesting video!
A fantastic example is the middle section in the Punch brothers' song The Angel of Doubt. Where the time is 7/4 but the band accents every second quarter note so it gives a 4/4 feeling. Very cool and works really well and that's what it's about. It's a complex musical thought that's there because it serves the song.
Great tutorial. Very explanatory.
Jacob collier does this sometimes. In his cover of close to you there's a part where the bass is playing quintuplets, the drums are in duplets and the keys are in septuplets really interesting mixing all of these crazy rhythms into something that sticks together and makes sense
My favorite one probably is the end part of his PYT cover😃
The whole of pyt is awesome. Soon I'm going g to start learning how to play that bass part. That's the kind of bass line that you cant ever really perfect so I think it's gonna be a good thing to practicr
I like the concept but I wouldn’t even know how to start practicing this stuff. Any good material out there (book, video, etc)?
Now I'm convinced you became a drum wizard. Wow. Thank you for making the process itself so clear, though!
I needed this.
Thank you.
9:00 When we say a "7-note sticking" are we thinking septuplets? I can understand 4/4 (or 8/8) over 6/8 fine enough, but the 7 and 5 groupings seem to loop quickly enough back around that they must be tuplets? If the were 7/8 or 7/16 then the accent would travel all over the place until coming back around many loops later. I feel like some sheet or visualization would have helped me more.
Loved your take! I’m a big fan of techniques like this after watching Marco Minneman doing something like this. Interdependence I think he called it. (I’m not a drummer, but a bassist obsessed with time signatures).
So what time signature do you want to play in?
Shawn: YES
I can't imagine the wood pile of sticks you went through to get these skills. Also, one thing that I think that can add to the illusion (ala Zeldman) is to have way more timbres that are associated with "hands" available to the feet, so pedal snares, cowbells and such. So, that 5/16 could be left hi-hat, left snare, left tom, left foot bass, left foot snare. And the right foot could also move around from bass drum, cowbell, snare (or tom). But, you'd probaly need DW (or the like) to donate you a lot (a lot of gear) to show that. Which they totally should.
Another fun way to do this is to play the hi-hat ostinato in the Purdie shuffle along with the kick and snare of a 4/4 quintuplet beat.
You're an amazing drummer !!
That was really inspiring Shawn!
you got to see Yogev Gabay's channel, he do a series about polyritmics that is beautiffully explained and graphicated. her channel is growing slowly but it's awesome
Shawn - I would love to see a conversation between you and John "drumbo" French. Excellent video here.
I am kinda working on something like this... I like the way you think and somehow our thoughts kinda are same... In some sort of way i guess... I love these kinda talks... Thanks for this video... It makes me feel a less weird one and lonely. Cheers love and respect from india.
Adam, Rick, and Shawn!? A glorious musical Tues. It is! ❤😊
And Adam wasn’t just Adam!
You did a really good job of explaining this.
Great video as always!! I recommend you Gnawa music, it's somehow related to your idea. Thanks man!
Sounded a lot like Captain Beefheart after the ⚠️ warning! Nice.
Hah, was thinking the same thing!
Also reminds me of Casey Cangelosi’s shape videos. Extreme independence
Now do 21:22 polyrhythm AGAINST 100:99 polyrhythm. Achieve Drum God status.
yeah i remember learning how to play a 7 clave over 5 clave, over a 2/4 ostinato... 10 years ago or more, easy if you scratch lines in a paper and just read it until you got it
Dude... WTF... I thought I knew something about drums but I now know I am just stupid.. I love you Xx
"If you subdivide it enough, EVERYTHING is in one time signature."--Terry "MadTiger" Miller
Fantastic!!!
7:10 Shameless plugin of sungazer
I wanted to use this to speed up/slow down... thanks!!
My brain hurts. This one fried me halfway through. It was fun trying to follow!
Could you create a guide to teach, how to practice two micro timings against each other? (Like this Quintuplet against the 5 16th thing)
That twist's my mind and ears even more!
There was a woman burned as a witch because she made an apple completely within a dumpling.
The Inquisition knows what you just did there. Only witches can put time inside of time. And weigh as much as a duck.
At some point, my music will just become incomprehensibly complex and YOU are partially guilty for teaching me the black magic of rhythm. Well you and Tigran Hamasyan.
Fascinating!
A polyrhythmic nested septuplet against a quintuplet layering in an odd meter with a 62% swing percentage!
U can learn poly's by playing Meshuggah and Intronaut tracks. Almost all their stuff contains crazy poly's. After a while, you may start to notice that there is a similarity between the relationships of the "common" poly-rhythms, (odd over even, etc.) and you can begin to play them by ear and just "feel" the time signatures before knowing what they actually are.
aight imma need some time to process it
Thumbs up! There's 'underrated' drummer, @DennyAJD who plays 4 polymeter and stuff like this since the late 90's. Gotta check him out bro.
Hey, I do listen the 6/8 (before you said it was actually 6/8 I heard the bass drum ostinato in 3/4) so, yeah there are parts where you're actually comunicating 3 time signatures at once.
i always feel i can see in your face when one half of your brain wants to surrender to the other one and you really dont want that to happen :D
How to Play 2 Time Signatures at Once? Easy! Be King Crimson and have two drummers playing 5/8 and 7/8 against each other in the song THRAK.
Another good example is Panzerballett - Take five.
Did you just describe how to transcribe riffs into beats via math! Vibrations, nature, communication, love, compassion!
This is insane. I am still trying to figure out how to play a 4 pattern in one limb and a 3 pattern in the other. Like in something like the Purdie/Rosannna shuffle where the hit hat is playing a 3 pattern, but the kick is playing a 4 pattern. It's so hard! Lol
I may undestand it, but i dont have enough RAM to play it! great video!!!!!
You should do a colab with Yogev Gabay!
I can play in 4/4 and 8/8 at the same time
I can even stretch to a 16/16
My monke brain cannot comprehend this insane drumming
Gimme dat Trout Mask beat!
I think to have multiple time signatures the listener should be able to bob their head to multiple beats.
Everybody gangsta until the drummer plays 2 time signatures at once
The keyboard solo of Genesis' "Robbery, Assault and Battery" has both 7/8 and 6/8 time signatures.
Can you listen to tigran hamasyan's music?
Like prolly newer songs in the newest album
That 6/8 is his head is like J. K. Rowling saying that Dumbledore was always written as gay.
I liked this video twice and then nine times at the same time, but it only seemed to come out as one like.
For some reason, I find 7 even beats played over 2 bars of 4/4 particularly hard to 'feel' as one rhythm when both play at the same time. Especially if the 4/4 part accents it's down-beat but the 7 has no accents.
What snare do you use? It sounds amazing
Hey man, I dont know how to read music notes/sheet music. if possible could you make a vid explaining complex polymeric time signatures like this but without notes. I've been playing drums for 10, almost 11 years now and I want to play stuff like this, complex polyrhythmic patterns/grooves. That would be an amazing help bro. Anyways, keep up the great content bro!
I think after 10 years of playing the drums you might want to spend a few hours catching up on sheet music. Drum sheet music is by far the easiest to understand. Otherwise you’re speaking a language you cannot write. It will only get you so far.
It will take you probably literally 15x longer to understand this complexity without sheet music. I suggest getting lessons to learn more about theory. Drum transcript is easy to understand :)
Am I right to suspect Gavin Harrison's Rhythmic Illusions was a big influence for you?
I can see the childlike excitment bubbling inside you hahaha
This is so crazy. I love your videos 💪
How long you spend practicing for this vid? I'm sitting at the kit rn and it's pretty fkn tough lol
22 years.
6:00 It's played through bad time signatures
432Hz time signature
"So you will hear this bass drum pattern in 4/4, as 1 and e 2 and e 3 and e 4 and e"
*inserts clip of the pattern played at 500,000 bpm
Me going "1 and..." - clip over, pattern played twice
😄 I work too much. My brain can't musc anymore
i just came here after i saw your japanese channel, its sad that you skipped that channel, but i really want to know if you got fluent in japanese or not after 3 years, please reply
That Ostinato song sounds a lot like Alien Hip Hop by Virgil Donati.That song has kicked my ass for years lol
Entertain Me by Tigran has a 35 against 4 polymeter
Works if my mind automatically sing a certain melody and I follow it?
This guy is insane! 😲
Is advanced time something Berklee gave you the skills to breakdown and learn?
Help. I'm overwhelmed.
Now I know where Blake Richardson got his drum solo from. Virgil.
when making that song were you actively thinking of playing two signatures at once or did you just write some weird patterns in 6/8 and it kinda happened?
nah, just happened. was improvising in 6/8 and that ostinato came out. just liked the sound and developed it further into a song.
@@ShawnCrowder Would you say that ostinato is/was something so ingrained that you could easily try stacking other rhythms on top, or did you first have to find some kind of (fake) match between the upper and lower limbs? Great video BTW, first one that really cracks my mind!
Dave weckl and Danny Carey are legends.
Thomas Ades Piano Quintet. That's all I have to say
Virgil looked like Euler in that clip lmao
non related: do you have a twitter account? :)
Shit went from 0-100 real quick
once you hear the Clave, it's hard to hear anything else but 6/8
You have to check Miroslav Musicant on YT. He already done this.
And I thought Vijay Iyer - Hood was a brain melter
I didn't know Virgil had a younger brother
'Ostinato' sounds pretty much like "Alian Hip-hop" to me