I listened to Zappa as a teenager for his funny lyrics, but the older I get, the more I appreciate the absolute genius level of the compositions and performances. He was the mastermind pushing the limits of rock and jazz music like no one before. His genius lives on in guys like Steve Vai.
I'm 61 and I have never failed to hear something new in his music. I know that a lot of people bag on Zappa, and I can understand why it's not for everyone. My theory is that you have to have played an instrument, on a serious level (HS band at a minimum, for example) to even have a hope of trying to comprehend what you're actually hearing. I don't mean that in a snob way, but to describe just how much of a different plane he was on.
"Mr. Zappa, it's the 11th time you enter here today" "Oh sorry, I wanted to come here before, but my septuplets had to stay at home" ba dum tss Well... actually, if it's zappa should be like ba ba badum tstsbradumdum tss
Not being facetious - i love your dry, down-to-business approach to discussing this. No pedantry, no apparent appetite for attention; just focus and passion. LOVE it. Thank you.
The thing is - dancing about architecture CAN be done but one must first KNOW enough about architecture to place it in another context and then have the skill and creativity in "dance" to make the viewer (who neither can dance nor plan/design a structure) "see" the building ... it is rare, REALLY RARE. So, writing about music can be done if one knows enough about "the specific music" (as Frank would say "to approach its statistical density in its basic form") and the skill at writing that can masterfully convey ... the emotion, depth, melody, rhythm and compositional form of that piece to someone who neither writes, knows music nor has heard the "piece" - and once again THAT is quite a feat ... occasionally, someone really bangs out a piece of writing that adequately reaches ... someone.
@@giselarita2186 whiplash sucked, and it was highly inaccurate. It was just another example of Hollywood fiction, and had nothing to do with drumming! (or really music for that matter)! It was just a platform to Base Hollywood Jive on! Yeah, like in reality after the guy had smashed into a tree in his car and rolled it and the guys bleeding like crazy probably in shock with internal injuries. He’s going to crawl out of the car and run to the big band concert?! Come on man we’re smarter than that.
'Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny' -FZ. Shawn, thank you for making this video! You have huge balls, and great ambition and passion for even trying to play this. You are clearly knowledgeable and skilled to come close to playing this difficult piece. I remember Frank was known to give this to auditioning drummers to test how good they were. He had some renown drummers over the years... Terry Bozzio, Vinny Colaiuta, Chad Wackerman, and Chester Thompson. Colaiuta probably enjoyed it, as he was such a freak of musicianship! Keep up the good work bro. I enjoyed the video!
"Talking about music is like dancing to architecture," is a famous quote that is attributed to many other artist, including comedian Steve Martin. However; there is a recording of bassist Roger Waters of Pink Floyd telling a reporter this in 1967, and is the earliest instance of the quote sourced. When you also consider that Roger was a former architecture student who didn't like giving interviews (unlike Zappa), it's not hard to believe the quote originated from him.
Zak McKracken> Waters made music for teenagers on pot? Zappa wrote songs about stinky feet, having the clap, having sex with weird Goth women, sex, sex and more sex, UFOs and other pretty silly stuff. Sounds like Zappa made music not only for teenagers, but grade-school kids as well.
I just watched an arrogant, dogshit video about how a professional drummer tells if a drummer has got..."It". Then I saw this video and my faith was immediately restored; you're playing a piece, and you're having fun learning it. Turns out enthusiasm is better than arrogance.
@@diebydeath oddly seeing that video was what brought me here. it's like news used to be. tell about an event and let you decide what happened. the other video "told you how to feel" then you decide if it was really the truth.
Don't all those awe inspiring tuplets sprinkled over a regular 4/4 pulse distract you from the fact that he consistantly kept the hi hat going every tick through out the piece. absolute mastermind.
i mean, i think its strongly advised to keep the pulse in your foot no matter who you are or what your instrument is. otherwise you’ll probably just get lost
That has always amazed me too! And when Bozzio first did it I think it was even more necessary (I imagine that was his click, apart from being Zappa’s actual composition). And having said that I am a drummer, and I always try to keep time with my foot, but on this piece. Great stuff 🙏🏻🤩
@@flowerlandofjohnthe 1/4 hh is part of the drums solo version of the piece. Without it, there’s nothing to provide reference the polyrhythmic phrases. It’s doesn’t make learning the piece easier. It makes learning the piece possible, and definable for the listener.
,The teleprompter is the sight part of his incredible sight reading skills. He sees advanced music on a page (or screen) and can translate it on his instrument in real time. I play guitar and thought this video would be guitar related when I started it. Shawn's talent as a teacher and player kept me watching til the end.
Sight reading means "at first sight" or "a prima vista" in musical language eg when you play a musical piece from paper which you've never seen or played before. You really think that's what's happening in this video?
@@Jordarr8994 Yep but he did hear it before. A prima vista means, you walk in (the studio), receive a sheet with freshly composed music and start playing the whole piece through.
As a drummer, I've had the rhythms down for a long time. My main difficulty is keeping the left foot consistent while incorporating the right foot into all those odd groupings. I think the thing to do is to practice repeated 5's, 7's, etc with several right foot-involved permutations against the quarter note left foot. Excellent job.
Was thinking, where's the joy in learning a piece written just to be complex? Seems like Zappa sat down and wrote a math theory. Except instead of striving to simplify he makes things as hard as possible.
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid Imagine a world without this diversity though. This music might not be your thing, but you should be glad that it is a thing. Joy may not have been his aim. Or consider that different people have different ways to find joy. There are those who find joy in complexity, and math, for example.
@@KitZunekaze I love math. But when I play I prefer to just throw in what sounds good. I'm unconvinced that excercises like this have to exist for there to be musical diversity. You hit the proverbial nail on the head: Zappa found joy through this, the average person wouldn't even notice the difference between nested tuplets and regular triplets played fast lol.
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid Well then you found your own answer. There's joy in it for other people. Simple as that. That's all I was trying to show.
@@KitZunekaze Pretty sure I had that answer already though. Actually I was saying more like, unless you knew him personally (or own a TH-cam music channel) there's prob limited joy for anyone else in taking the time to learn this. Only music theorists would be able to. Later days amigo.
Hahah, yes. Every time I see someone rattling on about how "difficult" that song is, or how "complex" Tool's rhythms are, I can hear Frank Zappa laughing his ass off somewhere in the Comos. (and of course, this is only if we're restricted to the real of rock music. There's loads of contemporary classical stuff that are much harder than this)
@Randy Carpenter But if someone (like me) who has no idea of how to write using nested tuplets, would use several different time signatures to achieve the same thing. I think it'd never reach as many as Dance of Eternity, as it's a much smaller song, but it would certainly have many time signatures!
I remember listening to 'Baby Snakes' on a constant loop back in college. Black Page #2 was one of those pieces that, even as a casual listener, changed your perception of reality. But, not in the way you'd think. The more you listened to it, the more things made sense.
I would love to see a video of Ruth Underwood breaking this down- she was always the essential "spice" that made Zappa's music special. Plus she was just a stunning virtuoso
Jen Moore Ruth could play ANYTHING. She regularly blew Frank away with her incredible musicianship. But he loved teasing this secretly shy woman. One night, when introducing Ruth, he said “ and on marimba, percussion, chimes, all manner of things she can hit....RUTH UNDERWOOD AND HER TWO FRIENDS!” Ruth bowed her head, her hair barely covering her ample breasts in a little tied halter top. Modest about her SELF...but not so much her CLOTHING. She’s one of my favorite musicians, one of my favorite people.
ruth is a jewel, and the joy she had playing frank’s music is evident in every recording... her description of the rhythm of bar 15 of “the black page” as “falling down the stairs” is perfect.
There is a beautiful and deeply moving part in Alex Winter's recent documentary "Zappa" where Ruth Underwood (on piano, this time) and Joe Travers (on drums) play The Black Page #1. Magnificent and magical. And, as i said, deeply moving, as it comes right after Ruth reminiscing about her time working with Frank.
@@mrstock7986 there is a lady on the tube here someplace that has made a video of herself playing the piece. It's very moving and wonderfully performed
When Bozio auditioned for The Mothers, Frank told me he'd only been playing at home. He screwed up horribly and left the building, demoralized.The amazing thing was, he turned around and went back to ask if he could try again. Frank gave him a do-over, and he crushed it. Bozio is a brilliant drummer, and with The Mothers came completely out of his shell, turning into a wild performer...adding vocals and the best scream this side of Steven Tyler. Frank's densepacked sheet music was even a challenge for the LA Philharmonic. This is a terrific video. It's lovely to see those black pages again...💕🎶
Same thing happened to me. There was a local band I absolutely loved and I never dreamed I would ever get a chance to join it. A friend of mine got me an audition with them and I was so nervous, I completely blew it. I couldn't do anything right. They ended up talking to my friend and he said I was better than that and got me another chance. The second time, I nailed it. I was comfortable and calm for some reason. So I got the gig. Ever since then, any time I was involved with someone auditioning for anything, I always insisted on giving them a second chance. And that's really worked out well many times.
I used to play with a guitarist whose favorite joke was, “What do you call the guy in the band surrounded by a bunch of musicians? Answer, “The drummer.” This video is a beautiful example of just how much drummers are true musicians. Your rendition of the Black Page is excellent, by the way.
Do you feel better now? This guy CARES. His emphasis on the value of counting is invaluable for young students. Look at all of the EFFORT. Gratuitous cheap shots. That's what the world is today. It is so disappointing.
Awesome man! You did a helluva job on it. Zappa was an absolute genius. Like I feel like most people partially misrepresent him as simply being a musician. No this dude was a straight up _composer_ (I kinda feel this way about Prince, too). Always happy when I see others appreciate him, like you have done in this vid. Thanks!
Dude... This video is one of my favourite things to watch. You've made a clinical, unpretentious and super informative documentation on your approach to the piece, without a hint of ego souring it (even though someone with your talent and insight would arguably deserve to be a little big-headed!). I send this to all my muso friends and watch it all the time. I don't even play drums, but love the piece so much. Thanks for passing on the sheer joy of music to another music nerd (and I mean that positively!) across the world.
I was heavily into Prog-Rock in the seventies, but when you listened to Frank, it was actually Dimensional Rock -- it was dimensionally beyond anything anyone has ever really heard in that era.
This is probably one of the only vids on here that I really enjoyed. You’re conceptually looking at everything. I’ve been a pro player since I was 16, playing since 4…but instead of a kit degree I got an orchestral scholarship in college. THAT made looking at the in between and the whole much easier on a piece like this. Really nice presentation.
During my percussion study in Amsterdam I’ve been lucky enough to perform this twice on cowbells and marimba. I studied it soooo bloody much that I still do a karaoke version :D Masterpiece!
King of one-liners. I saw him at the Omni in Atlanta, a venue he described as being "acoustically designed for basketball". He was dead right...worst sound ever.
I had heard about Zappa's compositions being difficult...and when top-level session guys call something "difficult", we normal humans translate that as "f*%#ing impossible". Steve Vai supposedly got his start with Zappa by transcribing "Sinister Footwear" onto paper from hearing it, and sent Zappa a copy. Zappa was so impressed, he auditioned him and hired him.
Steve Vai transcribed for Zappa for a few years before actually joining the band. He was 18 when he started transcribing stuff for him. Zappa said he was too young to join the band at that time.
I heard a story, from Steve Vai (on video) where he said he was on a plane with Zappa on the way to a show, and Frank gave him a piece of music to learn on the plane (with no guitar) for that night. Steve said he used his arm like a guitar neck to figure it out.
Vai transcribed The Black Page and that got him the job as transrciber. He then was tasked with transcribing guitar solos one of which was one called Persona Non Grata. Then, Vai was invited into FZs brand new studio to overdub that very solo and with the accompaniment being replaced with studio overdubs it became the theme from the 3rd movement of Sinister Footwear. The full Sinister afootwear is a 25 minute ballet.
Wow. Excellent job dissecting this. You did not mention Steve Vai. Steve transposed this for Frank. What a collection of musicians! Cudos for even attempting this. If I was stranded on an island, Joe's Garage has been my pick for a long time. Love FZ, and wish he was still with us, especially in this time of censorship. I have always wanted more, and in doing this you have expanded the little that we have of him just a little bit more. Thanks!
This is a beautifully conceived and executed video, and I really appreciate it. It’s the first time I’ve really made the effort to listen to an out-there Zappa piece, but in actual fact it was you who made the effort for me ;)
Transcribing drum solo pieces is inherently going to generate nonsense lol a drummer that has a hand in the writing of the overall background instrumental can just feel what they have in their head
Love the way you expose yourself, it's good to see your progress and the flaws, it shows that with hard work anyone can to it. Thanks a lot for the lesson Shawn!!
amazing. A documentary on an advanced musicians journey to learn a piece. So awesome, so human and ultimately so educational. You did the hard work and passed on your knowledge to the rest of us. You are awesome!
When learning anything you will be better the next day. The reason for that is, your brain goes over new information while you sleep, reorganizing itself to better deal with what you learned. This allows it to perform better when in the same situation again, allowing you to perform better when trying to play it again. Anytime you hit a brick wall, call it a day and sleep on it, and you’ll likely get beyond it the next day.
I know precisely one drummer who can play this piece well, and we actually performed in a group together while he was learning it so I got some insight into the music despite it being *way* over my head (then and now). You have my immense respect for putting down a solid take on that time schedule. Boggles my damned mind.
Shawn: Can't sightread quintuplets nested within triplets Also Shawn: I give myself a D minus. Just goes to show how amazing this guy is. I can hardly imagine me ever getting to a point of proficiency where I would fail to sightread nested tuplets and consider that "not that great". Huge props for doing as well as you did on the first try, and for learning this monstrosity of a piece!
Neither could Terry. No one can sightread that junk. You just synthesize pneumonics to practice it, just as synthetic as the structures, and pray that nobody has the actual ability to tell the difference.
Shawn, I was so impressed with your explanation of this piece that I subscribed to your page. I studied polyrhythms with Gary Chafee in Boston while I was going to Berklee long ago. And I really like how you explained it I even think some non-musicians could understand what you’re talking about. Very good.
Respect. I want to say two things: 1. What amazes me about this piece is that it makes sense melodically. Meaning, it’s crazy hard but it makes sense to my ear. It doesn’t just sound like a jumbled mess which really shows Zappa’s skill. 2. The first time I ever heard Zappa, my friend (also a musician) and I were at a guy’s apartment buying weed (in college). We get stoned, and unbeknownst to us, the album “Make a Jazz Noise Here” was on the stereo (something we used to use to listen to music). As we sat there hanging out and this music is playing, my friend and I looked at each other in disbelief and just started laughing. We couldn’t believe what we were hearing. We couldn’t stop laughing. It was so incredible. I’ll never forget that moment of being introduced to Zappa.
There was someone handed stuff in there right when to smile I've been playing longer than I care to mention I haven't even tried to learn the song and I've heard it a hundred times
Appreciate this. Amazed that I came across it so soon after it was uploaded. Saw Bozzio play back in 2006 or 2007 on the Zappa Plays Zappa tour. Amazing talent.
"...and the way you develop that [internal timing] is through the voice." Billy Rimer of Dillinger Escape Plan said that he remembers the insane drum phrases in their music by equating them to a vocal phrase of a certain number of syllables. Interesting.
Yeah, that's quite common among drummers - even when I was learning, my drum teacher taught me some really simple phrases that help to memorise even the most simple rhythms.
indeed, this is correct.... like a South Indian Raga. learning a piece with the vocal centers of the brain makes it solid.... in India, no matter the instrument, one learns the music vocally first. peace y'all, and rock on...
The mere look of the page enraged me, the part about tuplets depressed me, but the end result sounded surprisingly pleasant. Thank you for inspiration. I've liked playing music for years (as a hobby), but never put actual effort in learning. Just started. This video is very important and motivational in this context.
I love the approach you took to learning this amazing piece, I had a student recently ask me what the most difficult song for drums is. After dissecting the real intention of the question, I showed him your video (as well as one of terry playing it as well). Needless to say he was completely stunned and baffled by the piece. But Your conclusion, about putting in the time to make the piece work was really impactful for him. Thanks for taking the time to work this out, it was very inspirational.
Who knows? Possible scenario might just be this: Fido chases a butterfly or something, when he's for once not biting into studio cables, and FZ follows the dog's head movements and turns that somehow into music.
I learned to play this - much the same way you did - when I was at the Berklee College of Music - in 1981!!... You have to count your guts out! My goal at the time was to follow in Vinnie C's footsteps and go to LA and audition for Frank's Band (when Vinnie left the band)... I had it down (which made me a bit of a drum hero at Berklee)... I at least had the score to learn from - unlike Vinnie, who had to do it by ear - and transcribing it!! The audition never happened (Thanks Chad!), but I at least had the BP in my fingers!... It took me a hell of a lot longer to learn it than you spent on it tho... I found one of the most difficult things - for me - was to keep my damn left foot going on the quarter note throughout!!... Nice Job Dude!
@12:10 that hit me hard, the "putting in the work". I've been "playing" guitar for the last 5 years for around 20-30 minutes a day...yet It almost never feels like I'm learning anything, even when I play along with songs I feel like shit when I finish the session and just put it down. Music is incredibly difficult, it hits you hard and takes you on a rollercoaster of emotions, yet this is a simple fact...you have to put in the work. I hope I can take that into account and, well, do something, as I really need music as a release for all of the shit in my life. But I digress, great video!
I know that feeling of just being unable to get satisfactory results on a certain day but coming back the next day and getting a sudden performance boost all too well... it's a weirdly universal thing that happens to a lot of people I know. My little theory is that the night's sleep you get after a whole day of practice lets your brain internalize and process everything it learned during the day so that it becomes more subconscious and natural the next day.
This is true for many things. I have found when I'm up late frustrating over something on guitar I'll pack it in, sleep, wake up only to jump out of bed and nail it perfectly and everything from the night before seems laughably easy. It may also have to do with simply being exhausted and tired, your brain just needs to refresh.
Enjoyed it immensely. Learned so much. Person at work told me to check out The Black Page. So glad I did. That is how I came to your TH-cam video. Drumming ain't easy!
This was a hilarious piece of One/upmanship by Zappa. He Always had musicians good enough to play these things, but most musicians would look at this or “Inca Roads” and just leave, and go back to playing top 40 stuff. Steve Vai allegedly transcribed this at 17-18, and showed up for his audition with Zappa and gave him the transcription. According to Zappa, that meant he already had the job, but he let him go ahead with it and Vai played with him for a few years.
First off, I want to say respect. I think you did a pretty amazing job of it. I find reading it next to impossible when it comes to those tuple tuples. But why all the insults (in some of the replies and comments), I really don't get that? You don't like it? Fine, but why slag off someone who does? The same goes the other way around. I guess Frank Zappa still polarises opinion. I went to see him in 84, I think, some time between Joe's Garage Part 2 and Ship Arriving Too Late..., when Chad Wackerman was his drummer (with a name like that, what else could you be?) and it was probably the best gig I ever went to. It was mind blowing. So you can guess that I'm a fan and Chad was my favourite of his drummers. Personally, I do like the piece, both versions, but I wouldn't even try to learn it. My strengths lie much more in the feel and groove areas and that's what I also enjoy playing most: locking in with the rest of the rhythm section. If I had to learn it I'd do by playing along, or by programming it into a sequencer, by ear. I don't do a lot of reading anyway, and actually learned to read playing flute and piano, before I took up drums. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate this kind of stuff either, though. I did also see Terry Bozzio (who played the original on Live in New York) once, but not with Zappa (with UK, after Bill Bruford, probably my favourite drummer of all, had left. UK had another Zappa musician, Eddie Jobson, on violin and keyboards, who first teamed up with Bill Bruford in King Crimson). As for the piece itself, I wouldn't say Zappa was trolling his musicians. He knew they secretly called his sheet music black pages because they were so dense, and he did write it in an “I'll show you black page” attitude, but one thing that's always struck me about his bands is that after all the hardship, the long, difficult, and disciplined rehearsing, they knew the material inside out and were totally confident and at ease playing it. By the time it came to touring they were really enjoying themselves and having fun with it and that always came across to the audience. You could see them smiling and laughing. A lot of the really difficult stuff was actually something most people wouldn't realise, like segueing into a song in a different key and hitting a five part vocal harmony spot on. And one final observation: while I also have a lot of respect for Terry Bozzio for learning such a difficult piece, the person that I most admire is Ruth Underwood, who not only played the same difficult rhythm, but the melody as well (she was his percussionist for a long time and an amazing musician. Unfortunately I didn't ever get to see her. I got into Zappa about six months after the Sheik Yerbouti album, which was recorded in London and was the last album she did with him). To finish I'd just like to leave you with something a Jazz pianist friend of mine once said: there are really only two types of music: good music and bad music. That isn't the same thing as music you like and music you don't.
"there are really only two types of music: good music and bad music. That isn't the same thing as music you like and music you don't." - That is exactly what I struggle to make people understand. You may even like bad music, no problem. Most do not like good music. That's also okay. But to equal "I don't like" with "Is bad" is as wrong as vice versa. It simply hasn't anything to do with each other. But you could not promote this even if you were some kind of prophet.
I don't understand this phenomenon either. It seems as some m*s can't bear that someone else gets public attention, so they want to get their share by writing comments which are hard to ignore by intelligent people. And many of us smarter ones :) tend to react to such a bullshit. We shouldn't do this and keep still. It's useless, we won't change it. In real life you'd also avoid such idiots. In any case and by no means, can anyone reduce or neglect Shawn's work! He took up the task and finally mastered it! That's the biggest accomplishment one can achieve. So, any thumb down is meaningless.
Saw him in the mid-to-late '80's at a sold out show on Winter Island in Salem MA. I have a jpg copy of the review that was posted in the newspaper, but unfortunately I can't post an image here. The title is "Zappa freaks endure much to see their idol". I remember (also cited in the review) that they show started at 8:45pm, while the "official" start date was supposed to be 6pm. It rained like crazy just as he and his band took the stage, but then stopped after a bit. It says "One of the speaker banks sputtered on and off throughout the 105-minute show." I remember that too and could tell Zappa was a bit pissed that it wasn't working right. It says "Even Zappa had had enough by the end of the set. 'I appreciate the fact that you came out to this really unpleasant place to hear the concert'". He closed the show with "Whipping Post". Much better than the original, IMHO. :)
The funny thing is, what you're referring to at 00:10 is likely Pedro's Dowry, which Vinnie would later have to *sight-read* at his audition. And he did.
Nice work, good to see a drummer's perspective - I made a more general nested tuplets video last year, which thoroughly breaks down Bar 15 of The Black Page (I used it as the frog on my dissecting table to demonstrate my main method of learning nesteds). Slight lack of surface polish (but I was new to recording & editing videos), but I'm still confident in the content. Bar 15 was tight in your performance by the way - that's the one people often flounder on!
I performed it from my degree recital years ago. One of my biggest and proudest accomplishments Took me ages to learn the solo and to find a band that could play part 2 alongside me. Regardless, it happened and I'm so pleased it did. It's super fun too, once you know it well enough.
Good job dude. He used to say about a particular piece coming up in concerts, "And this is a hard one to play" . That period in his life during the 70's when I was a teenager was very special for me, although I was unable to appreciate any of the albums that were meant to be comical, only the serious albums. Before he died and you may know this already, he remastered all of his 54 albums onto digital. Someone else that may interest you , but perhaps not is John MacGlaughlin, who played (guitar) with billy Cobham among others. The best album was called 'The inner mounting flame'. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
This is such a monstrously excellent piece of music it saddens me every time it finishes. This, and his “Revised Music...” from Studio Tan are the greatest epitaphs any composer could wish for.
Wal, I am an old guy who had the "Privilege" of seeing Frank perform live quite a few times over the years, I even got to meet and speak with him once in the mid '70's. I believe one of my favorite Zappa songs is "Watermelon In Easter Hay", it is a hauntingly beautiful composition, I hear it as a Loving Send Off Dirge for a Dear Friend. Perhaps Frank foresaw his own demise when he wrote this.
Frank Zappa first came up on my radar more for his stance against "The Industry". I think the guy wasn't just musically inclined, but also really wise and ahead of his time in his understanding of political games and agendas within the entertainment industry. I started looking more into Zappa from there, and by extension, his drummer Terry Bozio. Bozio is definitely talented, but I feel that Bozio is something mainstream could never really appreciate. Kind of an odd ball as far as his drumming and music vision, I'd say. Still, I have some of his drum work saved on my phone and it's fun to listen to even if he's not something mainstream could ever get behind and appreciate. Maybe Zappa is the reason Bozio does such strange things in drumming. When people make their "top drummers" lists, I always find myself thinking of Bozio. The guy has immense talent. I don't care if it's strange or seemingly odd, the guy got skillz.
As a mere guitarist, drummers this good are scary, lols. This was a great breakdown of something I have always wanted to see done. I'll have to watch this a few times.
I am one of approximately 236 living humans who can dance adequately to The Black Page. We meet annually in the sewers of Prague. It gets crazy.
wtf
Is this real because I will drop everything I’m doing to see this irl?
Someone attempts to administer first aid for a seizure.
Invite me?
Is this a thing?
I listened to Zappa as a teenager for his funny lyrics, but the older I get, the more I appreciate the absolute genius level of the compositions and performances. He was the mastermind pushing the limits of rock and jazz music like no one before. His genius lives on in guys like Steve Vai.
I've got the other way around. English is my second language and I really wasn't that good at it when I started listenign to Zappa's music.
kinda slow to appreciate the guy for his music after years of listening
I'm 61 and I have never failed to hear something new in his music. I know that a lot of people bag on Zappa, and I can understand why it's not for everyone. My theory is that you have to have played an instrument, on a serious level (HS band at a minimum, for example) to even have a hope of trying to comprehend what you're actually hearing. I don't mean that in a snob way, but to describe just how much of a different plane he was on.
"His genius lives on in guys like Steve Vai." Poor old Steve can hardly attract an audience...
Reporter: you have long hair to you are a woman
Frank Zappa: you have a wooden leg so you are a chair.
pirates: *offended*
The interviewer was owned
Dinah Shore: "Why is your hair so long?"
Frank Zappa: "This isn't hair -- these are brain ends"
Frank Zappa walks into the tuplet store
Clerk: not again
Clerk: "Hello Mr. Zappa, what kind of tuplets would you like today? Quintuplets? Septuplets?"
Frank Zappa: "Yes."
@@ErebosGR Arghh. I wanted to say that. lol
"Mr. Zappa, it's the 11th time you enter here today"
"Oh sorry, I wanted to come here before, but my septuplets had to stay at home"
ba dum tss
Well... actually, if it's zappa should be like
ba ba badum tstsbradumdum tss
Oh, rich!
"What makes The Black Page so difficult?"
(hears The Black Page)
"Oh, I see."
I think Zappa's intention was to drive others to a nervous breakdown.
@@TheEleatic If you want to drive a musician crazy give them a simple repetitive part that goes on forever.
@@timbrink For bassists that would be
5/4 𝄆 𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥𝅘𝅥 𝅘𝅥𝅮𝅘𝅥𝅮 𝅘𝅥 𝄇
onthee brink Erik Satie’s piece that instructs the player to repeat the song 840 times (28 hours total).
I'm glad just being the listener in this case.
Not being facetious - i love your dry, down-to-business approach to discussing this. No pedantry, no apparent appetite for attention; just focus and passion. LOVE it. Thank you.
I for one would love to see dancing about architecture.
Then check out Johnny Vidacovich. He can play geometry of objects on drums
@@ivanpetrov4206 And a fellow New Orleanian!
i, for one care less for them
I would love to see someone dance about art deco
The thing is - dancing about architecture CAN be done but one must first KNOW enough about architecture to place it in another context and then have the skill and creativity in "dance" to make the viewer (who neither can dance nor plan/design a structure) "see" the building ... it is rare, REALLY RARE. So, writing about music can be done if one knows enough about "the specific music" (as Frank would say "to approach its statistical density in its basic form") and the skill at writing that can masterfully convey ... the emotion, depth, melody, rhythm and compositional form of that piece to someone who neither writes, knows music nor has heard the "piece" - and once again THAT is quite a feat ... occasionally, someone really bangs out a piece of writing that adequately reaches ... someone.
Frank Zappa was the only person who could say "not quite my tempo".
heeh
Whiplash is such a good movie
Hehe!
now, that's my job
@@giselarita2186 whiplash sucked, and it was highly inaccurate. It was just another example of Hollywood fiction, and had nothing to do with drumming! (or really music for that matter)! It was just a platform to Base Hollywood Jive on!
Yeah, like in reality after the guy had smashed into a tree in his car and rolled it and the guys bleeding like crazy probably in shock with internal injuries. He’s going to crawl out of the car and run to the big band concert?! Come on man we’re smarter than that.
'Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny' -FZ. Shawn, thank you for making this video! You have huge balls, and great ambition and passion for even trying to play this. You are clearly knowledgeable and skilled to come close to playing this difficult piece. I remember Frank was known to give this to auditioning drummers to test how good they were. He had some renown drummers over the years... Terry Bozzio, Vinny Colaiuta, Chad Wackerman, and Chester Thompson. Colaiuta probably enjoyed it, as he was such a freak of musicianship! Keep up the good work bro. I enjoyed the video!
"Talking about music is like dancing to architecture," is a famous quote that is attributed to many other artist, including comedian Steve Martin. However; there is a recording of bassist Roger Waters of Pink Floyd telling a reporter this in 1967, and is the earliest instance of the quote sourced. When you also consider that Roger was a former architecture student who didn't like giving interviews (unlike Zappa), it's not hard to believe the quote originated from him.
@Zak McKracken so was Syd, the real Roger and the real Pink Floyd
Zak McKracken> Waters made music for teenagers on pot? Zappa wrote songs about stinky feet, having the clap, having sex with weird Goth women, sex, sex and more sex, UFOs and other pretty silly stuff. Sounds like Zappa made music not only for teenagers, but grade-school kids as well.
Zak McKracken> Don't eat the yellow snow.
Zak McKracken Bobby brown
Zak McKracken I don’t care about wywh only saucerful
I just watched an arrogant, dogshit video about how a professional drummer tells if a drummer has got..."It". Then I saw this video and my faith was immediately restored; you're playing a piece, and you're having fun learning it. Turns out enthusiasm is better than arrogance.
Pretty sure I know which video you're talking about and I agree entirely. Annoyed me too
what video?
I'm guessing
th-cam.com/video/SBlUNQ31ujU/w-d-xo.html
i came here, walking the same way :)
@@diebydeath oddly seeing that video was what brought me here. it's like news used to be. tell about an event and let you decide what happened. the other video "told you how to feel" then you decide if it was really the truth.
Don't all those awe inspiring tuplets sprinkled over a regular 4/4 pulse distract you from the fact that he consistantly kept the hi hat going every tick through out the piece. absolute mastermind.
more like nausea-inspiring, hot buttered crap, wrapped in pseudo-intellectual crap
i mean, i think its strongly advised to keep the pulse in your foot no matter who you are or what your instrument is. otherwise you’ll probably just get lost
there's no other way. otherwise it becomes diffuse and random sounding. 1/4 note hihat pulse makes learning the piece a lot easier.
That has always amazed me too! And when Bozzio first did it I think it was even more necessary (I imagine that was his click, apart from being Zappa’s actual composition).
And having said that I am a drummer, and I always try to keep time with my foot, but on this piece. Great stuff 🙏🏻🤩
@@flowerlandofjohnthe 1/4 hh is part of the drums solo version of the piece. Without it, there’s nothing to provide reference the polyrhythmic phrases. It’s doesn’t make learning the piece easier. It makes learning the piece possible, and definable for the listener.
3:40 ”Yo dawg, I heard you like tuplets”
Thank you for this great video! I knew it was a difficult piece to play, but I never knew it was this HARD.
Your sight reading skills are just wow 🤦🏿♂️. Absolute goals
Jordan Johnson he has a teleprompter
,The teleprompter is the sight part of his incredible sight reading skills. He sees advanced music on a page (or screen) and can translate it on his instrument in real time. I play guitar and thought this video would be guitar related when I started it. Shawn's talent as a teacher and player kept me watching til the end.
Sight reading means "at first sight" or "a prima vista" in musical language eg when you play a musical piece from paper which you've never seen or played before. You really think that's what's happening in this video?
George Lucas that's what he said in the beginning never before seen or played
@@Jordarr8994 Yep but he did hear it before. A prima vista means, you walk in (the studio), receive a sheet with freshly composed music and start playing the whole piece through.
Frank Zappa: I want you to try this
Everyone: shut up and play your guitar
Yer
Guitar
🤣👌
Frank always said he was a composer that just happened to played guitar. He was a needed genius.
As a drummer, I've had the rhythms down for a long time. My main difficulty is keeping the left foot consistent while incorporating the right foot into all those odd groupings.
I think the thing to do is to practice repeated 5's, 7's, etc with several right foot-involved permutations against the quarter note left foot.
Excellent job.
I was always mindblown at how beautiful the phrasing is for such a discombobulated rhythm
Frank Zappa the only man in history that can make a 2minute song seem like an eternity
Was thinking, where's the joy in learning a piece written just to be complex? Seems like Zappa sat down and wrote a math theory. Except instead of striving to simplify he makes things as hard as possible.
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid Imagine a world without this diversity though. This music might not be your thing, but you should be glad that it is a thing. Joy may not have been his aim. Or consider that different people have different ways to find joy. There are those who find joy in complexity, and math, for example.
@@KitZunekaze I love math. But when I play I prefer to just throw in what sounds good.
I'm unconvinced that excercises like this have to exist for there to be musical diversity. You hit the proverbial nail on the head: Zappa found joy through this, the average person wouldn't even notice the difference between nested tuplets and regular triplets played fast lol.
@@A-Milkdromeda-Laniakea-Hominid Well then you found your own answer. There's joy in it for other people. Simple as that. That's all I was trying to show.
@@KitZunekaze Pretty sure I had that answer already though. Actually I was saying more like, unless you knew him personally (or own a TH-cam music channel) there's prob limited joy for anyone else in taking the time to learn this. Only music theorists would be able to.
Later days amigo.
dance of eternity crying in the corner
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That made me laugh!
Hahah, yes. Every time I see someone rattling on about how "difficult" that song is, or how "complex" Tool's rhythms are, I can hear Frank Zappa laughing his ass off somewhere in the Comos.
(and of course, this is only if we're restricted to the real of rock music. There's loads of contemporary classical stuff that are much harder than this)
To be fair... The Black Page #1 only has one time signature :-)
Now I would like to see saw Shawn doing that too
@Randy Carpenter
But if someone (like me) who has no idea of how to write using nested tuplets, would use several different time signatures to achieve the same thing.
I think it'd never reach as many as Dance of Eternity, as it's a much smaller song, but it would certainly have many time signatures!
I remember listening to 'Baby Snakes' on a constant loop back in college. Black Page #2 was one of those pieces that, even as a casual listener, changed your perception of reality. But, not in the way you'd think.
The more you listened to it, the more things made sense.
I would love to see a video of Ruth Underwood breaking this down- she was always the essential "spice" that made Zappa's music special. Plus she was just a stunning virtuoso
Her enthusiasm and sharp memory of her time in Zappa's band always makes for a great interview.
Jen Moore Ruth could play ANYTHING. She regularly blew Frank away with her incredible musicianship. But he loved teasing this secretly shy woman. One night, when introducing Ruth, he said “ and on marimba, percussion, chimes, all manner of things she can hit....RUTH UNDERWOOD AND HER TWO FRIENDS!” Ruth bowed her head, her hair barely covering her ample breasts in a little tied halter top. Modest about her SELF...but not so much her CLOTHING. She’s one of my favorite musicians, one of my favorite people.
ruth is a jewel, and the joy she had playing frank’s music is evident in every recording... her description of the rhythm of bar 15 of “the black page” as “falling down the stairs” is perfect.
There is a beautiful and deeply moving part in Alex Winter's recent documentary "Zappa" where Ruth Underwood (on piano, this time) and Joe Travers (on drums) play The Black Page #1. Magnificent and magical. And, as i said, deeply moving, as it comes right after Ruth reminiscing about her time working with Frank.
@@mrstock7986 there is a lady on the tube here someplace that has made a video of herself playing the piece. It's very moving and wonderfully performed
Gotta love Zappa music... Listening to it of course, playing it must be a nightmare but extremely rewarding if you can nail it
When Bozio auditioned for The Mothers, Frank told me he'd only been playing at home. He screwed up horribly and left the building, demoralized.The amazing thing was, he turned around and went back to ask if he could try again. Frank gave him a do-over, and he crushed it. Bozio is a brilliant drummer, and with The Mothers came completely out of his shell, turning into a wild performer...adding vocals and the best scream this side of Steven Tyler.
Frank's densepacked sheet music was even a challenge for the LA Philharmonic. This is a terrific video. It's lovely to see those black pages again...💕🎶
Lorraine Chamberlain hey Lorraine are you interested in having a sugar baby? I need pampering let me know 💕
Don’t lie
Same thing happened to me. There was a local band I absolutely loved and I never dreamed I would ever get a chance to join it. A friend of mine got me an audition with them and I was so nervous, I completely blew it. I couldn't do anything right. They ended up talking to my friend and he said I was better than that and got me another chance. The second time, I nailed it. I was comfortable and calm for some reason. So I got the gig. Ever since then, any time I was involved with someone auditioning for anything, I always insisted on giving them a second chance. And that's really worked out well many times.
I thought he played with Azteca before he auditioned for Frank’s band.
A heroic endeavour! And your comments on having a good work ethic are spot on. I hardly ever post comments but this was exceptional. RIP Frank.
Wow that's a GIANT hi hat!
good eye! the big stack is the same combo from that vid.
Sixteen years after his death and his compositions are still challenging & baffling gifted musicians.
Great video. Most enjoyable.
FZ = Salvadore Dali of music. Desperate to be unusual.
It is so rare to get testimony of people actually learning the music. So helpful. Thank you.
I'm not even a drummer, but this video's message is applicable to just about anything in regards to succeeding at life. Great job. Great message.
I used to play with a guitarist whose favorite joke was, “What do you call the guy in the band surrounded by a bunch of musicians? Answer, “The drummer.”
This video is a beautiful example of just how much drummers are true musicians. Your rendition of the Black Page is excellent, by the way.
I’m not even a drummer, but I already gave up
Same the math just instantly melts my feeble brain.
Clean up on aisle 3, my brain exploded...
That's a great comment...!!
zorrosg Your comment was great because it made my day :D Thank you :)
One time i was helping a buddy move. We accidentally dropped his drum set down a flight of stairs.
It sounded spot on.
th-cam.com/video/CmV3Bf2veAg/w-d-xo.html
R/thathappened
Do you feel better now? This guy CARES. His emphasis on the value of counting is invaluable for young students. Look at all of the EFFORT. Gratuitous cheap shots. That's what the world is today. It is so disappointing.
I think it's funny.
right on. "hard to play" does not equal good music.
Anyone who even tries to take this song on is playing at an incredible level. Impressive work and thanks for sharing!
Awesome man! You did a helluva job on it. Zappa was an absolute genius. Like I feel like most people partially misrepresent him as simply being a musician. No this dude was a straight up _composer_ (I kinda feel this way about Prince, too). Always happy when I see others appreciate him, like you have done in this vid. Thanks!
Much as I admired Zappa..there comes a point in this video when you think...why...???.
Thank you for your patience and (immense) knowledge Shawn.
Because its VERY musical.
I love that pic
why ? Because!
Dude...
This video is one of my favourite things to watch. You've made a clinical, unpretentious and super informative documentation on your approach to the piece, without a hint of ego souring it (even though someone with your talent and insight would arguably deserve to be a little big-headed!).
I send this to all my muso friends and watch it all the time. I don't even play drums, but love the piece so much.
Thanks for passing on the sheer joy of music to another music nerd (and I mean that positively!) across the world.
I was heavily into Prog-Rock in the seventies, but when you listened to Frank, it was actually Dimensional Rock -- it was dimensionally beyond anything anyone has ever really heard in that era.
I'm not even a musician, but thanks, it's pretty inspiring. Keep up the good work!
Mmm do you have perfect pitch?
@@abstract0407 do you have the money?
@@dco1019 relative pitch?
@@abstract0407 absolutely
This is probably one of the only vids on here that I really enjoyed. You’re conceptually looking at everything. I’ve been a pro player since I was 16, playing since 4…but instead of a kit degree I got an orchestral scholarship in college. THAT made looking at the in between and the whole much easier on a piece like this. Really nice presentation.
During my percussion study in Amsterdam I’ve been lucky enough to perform this twice on cowbells and marimba.
I studied it soooo bloody much that I still do a karaoke version :D
Masterpiece!
Zappa was way ahead of his time!
Sure do miss his live performances!
Yuo did a fantastic job explaining the complexity of this piece. Zappa was such a f****g genius. I saw him live once, the best concerto of my life.
I've read the quote (in a FZ interview in Guitar Player magazine) as "Writing about music is like eating tennis".
King of one-liners. I saw him at the Omni in Atlanta, a venue he described as being "acoustically designed for basketball". He was dead right...worst sound ever.
Writing about music is like having sex with a light bulb
I think he also said about rock journalism: "People who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read."
@@riffedwood5597 All over in a flash?
I had heard about Zappa's compositions being difficult...and when top-level session guys call something "difficult", we normal humans translate that as "f*%#ing impossible". Steve Vai supposedly got his start with Zappa by transcribing "Sinister Footwear" onto paper from hearing it, and sent Zappa a copy. Zappa was so impressed, he auditioned him and hired him.
@@Frunobulax74 That is fucking insane. So beyond normal people.
Steve Vai transcribed for Zappa for a few years before actually joining the band. He was 18 when he started transcribing stuff for him. Zappa said he was too young to join the band at that time.
Steve did his transcription after years of music education, and left Berlkee to work for Frank and look for his long-lost bunny.
I heard a story, from Steve Vai (on video) where he said he was on a plane with Zappa on the way to a show, and Frank gave him a piece of music to learn on the plane (with no guitar) for that night. Steve said he used his arm like a guitar neck to figure it out.
Vai transcribed The Black Page and that got him the job as transrciber.
He then was tasked with transcribing guitar solos one of which was one called Persona Non Grata.
Then, Vai was invited into FZs brand new studio to overdub that very solo and with the accompaniment being replaced with studio overdubs it became the theme from the 3rd movement of Sinister Footwear.
The full Sinister afootwear is a 25 minute ballet.
Wow. Excellent job dissecting this.
You did not mention Steve Vai. Steve transposed this for Frank. What a collection of musicians! Cudos for even attempting this. If I was stranded on an island, Joe's Garage has been my pick for a long time.
Love FZ, and wish he was still with us, especially in this time of censorship.
I have always wanted more, and in doing this you have expanded the little that we have of him just a little bit more. Thanks!
This is a beautifully conceived and executed video, and I really appreciate it. It’s the first time I’ve really made the effort to listen to an out-there Zappa piece, but in actual fact it was you who made the effort for me ;)
Ill never understand it. Its like someone transcribed what you hear walking through guitar center or something.
I think you understand it perfectly
@@RyanTCassidy Nah, shredders in guitar center can't sight read.
@@TestSubjectQWTD That's the joke? That it's like someone took the bumbling noise in a guitar center and jammed it into sheet music?
@@RyanTCassidy The only difference is zappa meant it haha well before his time clearly
Transcribing drum solo pieces is inherently going to generate nonsense lol a drummer that has a hand in the writing of the overall background instrumental can just feel what they have in their head
You can tell when a true musician is speaking. You my friend are a true musician.
Very interesting video, i didn't know about this piece until now. You explained it very well, thanks!
Love the way you expose yourself, it's good to see your progress and the flaws, it shows that with hard work anyone can to it. Thanks a lot for the lesson Shawn!!
amazing. A documentary on an advanced musicians journey to learn a piece. So awesome, so human and ultimately so educational. You did the hard work and passed on your knowledge to the rest of us. You are awesome!
When learning anything you will be better the next day. The reason for that is, your brain goes over new information while you sleep, reorganizing itself to better deal with what you learned. This allows it to perform better when in the same situation again, allowing you to perform better when trying to play it again. Anytime you hit a brick wall, call it a day and sleep on it, and you’ll likely get beyond it the next day.
Clayton Macleod kinda like a video game
Yes. Happens to me all the time.
@Tom Hamilton I’m not going to contradict brain researchers. ;)
Master drummer, excellent explanation. The kind of musician we need to teach music to us common people.
I know precisely one drummer who can play this piece well, and we actually performed in a group together while he was learning it so I got some insight into the music despite it being *way* over my head (then and now). You have my immense respect for putting down a solid take on that time schedule. Boggles my damned mind.
Shawn: Can't sightread quintuplets nested within triplets
Also Shawn: I give myself a D minus.
Just goes to show how amazing this guy is. I can hardly imagine me ever getting to a point of proficiency where I would fail to sightread nested tuplets and consider that "not that great". Huge props for doing as well as you did on the first try, and for learning this monstrosity of a piece!
Neither could Terry. No one can sightread that junk. You just synthesize pneumonics to practice it, just as synthetic as the structures, and pray that nobody has the actual ability to tell the difference.
@@flamindigo people can absolutely sight read subdivided polymeters. The example cited here is easy by comparison.
That performance was the music equivalent of watching a subtitled kung-fu movie
Shawn, I was so impressed with your explanation of this piece that I subscribed to your page. I studied polyrhythms with Gary Chafee in Boston while I was going to Berklee long ago. And I really like how you explained it I even think some non-musicians could understand what you’re talking about. Very good.
Respect.
I want to say two things:
1. What amazes me about this piece is that it makes sense melodically. Meaning, it’s crazy hard but it makes sense to my ear. It doesn’t just sound like a jumbled mess which really shows Zappa’s skill.
2. The first time I ever heard Zappa, my friend (also a musician) and I were at a guy’s apartment buying weed (in college). We get stoned, and unbeknownst to us, the album “Make a Jazz Noise Here” was on the stereo (something we used to use to listen to music). As we sat there hanging out and this music is playing, my friend and I looked at each other in disbelief and just started laughing. We couldn’t believe what we were hearing. We couldn’t stop laughing. It was so incredible. I’ll never forget that moment of being introduced to Zappa.
You and Adam are going to duet this right?
it does sound like a sungazer song lol
It sounded like he made some other intro for Drunk
Joseph Fox Drums great idea!! 👍
Does Neely even like Zappa? Don't believe I've ever even heard him mention him...
@@GeoffBosco He has a couple of times. I can't find the video but I know that I liked it. But he has also referred to Ben Levin as a modern Zappa.
Thanks!
That was incredible. That’s some goal to set. A crazy crazy achievement. Very inspiring. Thank you.
Man, this is so good on so many levels! The honesty, the message and the PLAYING!!!
That cheeky smile over the 11-tuplets right near the end was such a delight.
There was someone handed stuff in there right when to smile I've been playing longer than I care to mention I haven't even tried to learn the song and I've heard it a hundred times
Appreciate this. Amazed that I came across it so soon after it was uploaded. Saw Bozzio play back in 2006 or 2007 on the Zappa Plays Zappa tour. Amazing talent.
great show.
"...and the way you develop that [internal timing] is through the voice."
Billy Rimer of Dillinger Escape Plan said that he remembers the insane drum phrases in their music by equating them to a vocal phrase of a certain number of syllables. Interesting.
Yeah, that's quite common among drummers - even when I was learning, my drum teacher taught me some really simple phrases that help to memorise even the most simple rhythms.
Keith Moon played fills to the lyrics
Yep. Portnoy has espoused the same technique. I assume it is quite frequently employed within technical music.
indeed, this is correct.... like a South Indian Raga. learning a piece with the vocal centers of the brain makes it solid.... in India, no matter the instrument, one learns the music vocally first. peace y'all, and rock on...
The mere look of the page enraged me, the part about tuplets depressed me, but the end result sounded surprisingly pleasant. Thank you for inspiration. I've liked playing music for years (as a hobby), but never put actual effort in learning. Just started. This video is very important and motivational in this context.
I have no idea how to play the drums but I'm watching this anyway
isnt youtube a beautiful thing
Same
Anytime I hear the word subdivisions I always sing the Rush song "Subdivisuons". Solid work my friend
I love the approach you took to learning this amazing piece, I had a student recently ask me what the most difficult song for drums is. After dissecting the real intention of the question, I showed him your video (as well as one of terry playing it as well). Needless to say he was completely stunned and baffled by the piece. But Your conclusion, about putting in the time to make the piece work was really impactful for him. Thanks for taking the time to work this out, it was very inspirational.
Love the smile at 14:15! I'd smile too if I could play this nightmare!!
Frank was trolling the band, obviously.
One listen of the recorded spoken parts of Playground Psychotics proves this point.
Now that I understand what's behind the Black Page, it makes me want to listen to it even less. Sort of like Dream Theater...
Who knows? Possible scenario might just be this: Fido chases a butterfly or something, when he's for once not biting into studio cables, and FZ follows the dog's head movements and turns that somehow into music.
Not just his band but all musicians.
Trolling the band and the listeners, it sounds just horrible in every way...
I can almost count the damn thing. I was thrilled watching you find the joy in playing it. BRAVO!
I normally don’t leave comments...but damn, this video was amazing! Great work!
Ah, so nested tuplets are just as much of a headache in music as in programming.
KodyXXVll I think he might mean programming as in software and computer stuff
George Woolley No shit Sherlock. As opposed to programming music on an abacus?
@@KodyXXVll I think he means as opposed to programming music? On software?
You can't program an abacus.
@@KodyXXVll the reference he's making to a tuplet has nothing to do with music, "Sherlock"
@@KodyXXVll ...you're just making yourself look like a fool.
I learned to play this - much the same way you did - when I was at the Berklee College of Music - in 1981!!... You have to count your guts out! My goal at the time was to follow in Vinnie C's footsteps and go to LA and audition for Frank's Band (when Vinnie left the band)... I had it down (which made me a bit of a drum hero at Berklee)... I at least had the score to learn from - unlike Vinnie, who had to do it by ear - and transcribing it!! The audition never happened (Thanks Chad!), but I at least had the BP in my fingers!... It took me a hell of a lot longer to learn it than you spent on it tho... I found one of the most difficult things - for me - was to keep my damn left foot going on the quarter note throughout!!... Nice Job Dude!
@12:10 that hit me hard, the "putting in the work". I've been "playing" guitar for the last 5 years for around 20-30 minutes a day...yet It almost never feels like I'm learning anything, even when I play along with songs I feel like shit when I finish the session and just put it down. Music is incredibly difficult, it hits you hard and takes you on a rollercoaster of emotions, yet this is a simple fact...you have to put in the work. I hope I can take that into account and, well, do something, as I really need music as a release for all of the shit in my life.
But I digress, great video!
Practice stoned.
Shockingly informative for a youtube channel.
Nice.
Dude, I have watched like a gazillion versions of The Black Page and yours has to be my favorite. Such a beautiful interpretation!
Legend has it this piece of music drove Bill Burr into comedy...
Wait, seriously? What's the story behind that? I know Bill loves drumming but I never heard of that
Hazardous Jazzgasm Its a joke because of his dark humor
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 you're adorable
I know that feeling of just being unable to get satisfactory results on a certain day but coming back the next day and getting a sudden performance boost all too well... it's a weirdly universal thing that happens to a lot of people I know. My little theory is that the night's sleep you get after a whole day of practice lets your brain internalize and process everything it learned during the day so that it becomes more subconscious and natural the next day.
That's pretty much it.
It's the same when your plumber is at your door with replacement parts, you've got to let that sink in.
This is true for many things. I have found when I'm up late frustrating over something on guitar I'll pack it in, sleep, wake up only to jump out of bed and nail it perfectly and everything from the night before seems laughably easy. It may also have to do with simply being exhausted and tired, your brain just needs to refresh.
it isn't your theory.
Enjoyed it immensely. Learned so much. Person at work told me to check out The Black Page. So glad I did. That is how I came to your TH-cam video. Drumming ain't easy!
This was a hilarious piece of One/upmanship by Zappa. He Always had musicians good enough to play these things, but most musicians would look at this or “Inca Roads” and just leave, and go back to playing top 40 stuff. Steve Vai allegedly transcribed this at 17-18, and showed up for his audition with Zappa and gave him the transcription. According to Zappa, that meant he already had the job, but he let him go ahead with it and Vai played with him for a few years.
First off, I want to say respect. I think you did a pretty amazing job of it. I find reading it next to impossible when it comes to those tuple tuples. But why all the insults (in some of the replies and comments), I really don't get that? You don't like it? Fine, but why slag off someone who does? The same goes the other way around. I guess Frank Zappa still polarises opinion. I went to see him in 84, I think, some time between Joe's Garage Part 2 and Ship Arriving Too Late..., when Chad Wackerman was his drummer (with a name like that, what else could you be?) and it was probably the best gig I ever went to. It was mind blowing. So you can guess that I'm a fan and Chad was my favourite of his drummers. Personally, I do like the piece, both versions, but I wouldn't even try to learn it. My strengths lie much more in the feel and groove areas and that's what I also enjoy playing most: locking in with the rest of the rhythm section. If I had to learn it I'd do by playing along, or by programming it into a sequencer, by ear. I don't do a lot of reading anyway, and actually learned to read playing flute and piano, before I took up drums. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate this kind of stuff either, though. I did also see Terry Bozzio (who played the original on Live in New York) once, but not with Zappa (with UK, after Bill Bruford, probably my favourite drummer of all, had left. UK had another Zappa musician, Eddie Jobson, on violin and keyboards, who first teamed up with Bill Bruford in King Crimson). As for the piece itself, I wouldn't say Zappa was trolling his musicians. He knew they secretly called his sheet music black pages because they were so dense, and he did write it in an “I'll show you black page” attitude, but one thing that's always struck me about his bands is that after all the hardship, the long, difficult, and disciplined rehearsing, they knew the material inside out and were totally confident and at ease playing it. By the time it came to touring they were really enjoying themselves and having fun with it and that always came across to the audience. You could see them smiling and laughing. A lot of the really difficult stuff was actually something most people wouldn't realise, like segueing into a song in a different key and hitting a five part vocal harmony spot on.
And one final observation: while I also have a lot of respect for Terry Bozzio for learning such a difficult piece, the person that I most admire is Ruth Underwood, who not only played the same difficult rhythm, but the melody as well (she was his percussionist for a long time and an amazing musician. Unfortunately I didn't ever get to see her. I got into Zappa about six months after the Sheik Yerbouti album, which was recorded in London and was the last album she did with him).
To finish I'd just like to leave you with something a Jazz pianist friend of mine once said: there are really only two types of music: good music and bad music. That isn't the same thing as music you like and music you don't.
"there are really only two types of music: good music and bad music. That isn't the same thing as music you like and music you don't." - That is exactly what I struggle to make people understand. You may even like bad music, no problem. Most do not like good music. That's also okay. But to equal "I don't like" with "Is bad" is as wrong as vice versa. It simply hasn't anything to do with each other. But you could not promote this even if you were some kind of prophet.
Most intelligent comment here. Thank you.
I don't understand this phenomenon either. It seems as some m*s can't bear that someone else gets public attention, so they want to get their share by writing comments which are hard to ignore by intelligent people. And many of us smarter ones :) tend to react to such a bullshit. We shouldn't do this and keep still. It's useless, we won't change it. In real life you'd also avoid such idiots. In any case and by no means, can anyone reduce or neglect Shawn's work! He took up the task and finally mastered it! That's the biggest accomplishment one can achieve. So, any thumb down is meaningless.
yeah ruth the truth underwood was amazing.
Saw him in the mid-to-late '80's at a sold out show on Winter Island in Salem MA. I have a jpg copy of the review that was posted in the newspaper, but unfortunately I can't post an image here. The title is "Zappa freaks endure much to see their idol". I remember (also cited in the review) that they show started at 8:45pm, while the "official" start date was supposed to be 6pm. It rained like crazy just as he and his band took the stage, but then stopped after a bit. It says "One of the speaker banks sputtered on and off throughout the 105-minute show." I remember that too and could tell Zappa was a bit pissed that it wasn't working right. It says "Even Zappa had had enough by the end of the set. 'I appreciate the fact that you came out to this really unpleasant place to hear the concert'". He closed the show with "Whipping Post". Much better than the original, IMHO. :)
The funny thing is, what you're referring to at 00:10 is likely Pedro's Dowry, which Vinnie would later have to *sight-read* at his audition. And he did.
Nice work, good to see a drummer's perspective - I made a more general nested tuplets video last year, which thoroughly breaks down Bar 15 of The Black Page (I used it as the frog on my dissecting table to demonstrate my main method of learning nesteds). Slight lack of surface polish (but I was new to recording & editing videos), but I'm still confident in the content.
Bar 15 was tight in your performance by the way - that's the one people often flounder on!
Good !! Congratulations !
I appreciated the smile at 14:15, so thank U !
This has become one of my favourite videos on TH-cam.
I performed it from my degree recital years ago.
One of my biggest and proudest accomplishments
Took me ages to learn the solo and to find a band that could play part 2 alongside me.
Regardless, it happened and I'm so pleased it did.
It's super fun too, once you know it well enough.
Good job dude. He used to say about a particular piece coming up in concerts, "And this is a hard one to play" . That period in his life during the 70's when I was a teenager was very special for me, although I was unable to appreciate any of the albums that were meant to be comical, only the serious albums. Before he died and you may know this already, he remastered all of his 54 albums onto digital.
Someone else that may interest you , but perhaps not is John MacGlaughlin, who played (guitar) with billy Cobham among others. The best album was called 'The inner mounting flame'.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I love learning things like this.
This is why I fell in love with the drums. Something about it reminds me of Neil Pert.
I really like the approach you have of diceminating the subdivision process in order to understand the piece.
This is such a monstrously excellent piece of music it saddens me every time it finishes. This, and his “Revised Music...” from Studio Tan are the greatest epitaphs any composer could wish for.
Wal, I am an old guy who had the "Privilege" of seeing Frank perform live quite a few times over the years, I even got to meet and speak with him once in the mid '70's. I believe one of my favorite Zappa songs is "Watermelon In Easter Hay", it is a hauntingly beautiful composition, I hear it as a Loving Send Off Dirge for a Dear Friend. Perhaps Frank foresaw his own demise when he wrote this.
The 'solo' part in 'Revised...One of the most beautiful pieces he's ever done
Great work in figuring this all out. Nice playing over the tune as well. That Zappa, man, what a guy!
Damn dude, that was an amazing doc on the tune and your adventure getting to a point where you performed it. Loved this man 🤘🏼
...an excellent presentation!!! As a huge Zappa fan with ZERO musical ability, I thank you.
Hats of to you Shawn, this is a tall order and you did a great job!
I just wanna highlight how great that backing track is - it really nails the Zappa Synclavier, it's uncanny.
Frank Zappa first came up on my radar more for his stance against "The Industry". I think the guy wasn't just musically inclined, but also really wise and ahead of his time in his understanding of political games and agendas within the entertainment industry.
I started looking more into Zappa from there, and by extension, his drummer Terry Bozio. Bozio is definitely talented, but I feel that Bozio is something mainstream could never really appreciate. Kind of an odd ball as far as his drumming and music vision, I'd say. Still, I have some of his drum work saved on my phone and it's fun to listen to even if he's not something mainstream could ever get behind and appreciate.
Maybe Zappa is the reason Bozio does such strange things in drumming. When people make their "top drummers" lists, I always find myself thinking of Bozio. The guy has immense talent. I don't care if it's strange or seemingly odd, the guy got skillz.
Which is the correct attitude. Deciding what sounds good to you using 'mainstream' as a reference is madness.
HutchinsonJC He's a legend. A lot of people don't take into account his versatility like what he did with Missing Persons
@@gsxerwhite or his work with Jeff Beck
Very impressive in many ways. Your playing, your presentation, your editing and your philosophy. to name a few. Thank you for the great video.
As a mere guitarist, drummers this good are scary, lols.
This was a great breakdown of something I have always wanted to see done. I'll have to watch this a few times.
Aylbdr Madison omfg you play guitar? No way!
@@tomdongerson1474 That's not a girl bro.
Check out Mike Keneally's take on this in "Zappa's Universe." Equally scary! :)