Plato's Republic - The Perfect Society
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ค. 2024
- Join George and John as they discuss and debate different philosophical ideas. Today they will be looking into Plato’s Republic and the ideas around the perfect society.
Within Plato’s book The Republic, Socrates enters a discussion around the perfect city state and what this would look. From rulers to the defense to the everyday people, watch as this perfect society is explained and critically assessed.
The script to this video is part of the Philosophy Vibe "Plato & Aristotle" eBook, available on Amazon:
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It is also part of the Philosophy Vibe Paperback Anthology, Vol 3 "Ethics and Political Philosophy", available worldwide on Amazon:
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0:00 - Introduction
1:53 - The Producers
3:40 - The Auxiliaries (first Guardians)
6:08 - The new Guardians (the Rulers)
8:03 - The life of the Guardians
9:30 - The three classes summary
10:50 - Thee core virtues
11:21 - The myth of metals
12:51 - Criticisms and debate
#Plato #TheRepublic #Socrates #Philosophy
The script to this video is part of the Philosophy Vibe "Plato & Aristotle" eBook, available on Amazon:
US: www.amazon.com/dp/B08YWTHYS4
UK: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08YWTHYS4
Canada: www.amazon.ca/dp/B08YWTHYS4
India: www.amazon.in/dp/B08YWTHYS4
Australia: www.amazon.com.au/dp/B08YWTHYS4
Germany: www.amazon.de/dp/B08YWTHYS4
It is also part of the Philosophy Vibe Paperback Anthology, Vol 3 "Ethics and Political Philosophy", available worldwide on Amazon:
US: www.amazon.com/dp/B092H9V22R
UK: www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B092H9V22R
Canada: www.amazon.ca/dp/B092H9V22R
" One day, when Plato was on a morning walk by the side of the sea, he saw a man. It was early in the morning, a little dark - the sun had not risen yet. He could not figure out who the man was. This man was Diogenes and in a spoon he was bringing…He would go to the ocean, take the water in the spoon - he had made a small hole in the sand - pour the water into the sand, and then go back.
Plato, standing there, saw him doing it. He looked like a madman. For a moment he thought, “I should not interfere.” But such is the mind - it becomes curious: “Maybe he is not mad; perhaps he is doing something meaningful and I am not aware of it. And what is wrong if I ask him?” So he said, “Please forgive me for interrupting. I don’t want to interrupt you - you may be involved in some great work - but what is going on?”
Diogenes said, “I am trying to empty the ocean.”
Plato said, “My God, with this teaspoon?”
And then the sun was rising and Diogenes started laughing and said, “Plato, what else are you doing?” Then Plato recognized Diogenes. He used to live naked, but that day he was covered with a cloth, just to hide himself, so Plato would not know him at first. Otherwise he might not have interrupted.
Plato was simply stunned, he could not answer. Diogenes said, “That’s what you are trying to do. Your mind is nothing but a teaspoon and with it you are trying to exhaust the oceanic existence. What I am doing is just to remind you…I know it is not possible. You should also remember that what you are doing is impossible"
❤❤❤ love this
Cool story...
I doubt the feelings of Plato evoked from contemplating wisdom match up to the the sheer fulfilment Diogenes must have felt in his most epic adventure. Thank you so much for this tip. But may i ask, what exactly is Plato doing which is impossible?
@wingit7335 As humans, we are limited by our senses. Which limits our perception. Which limits our knowledge. We don't know much, and what we do know is limited and even illusionary. Which makes the universe a very interesting place...
The entire system is designed to make society predictable, and the ruling class are taught how to rule this predictable machine from an isolated institution immune to corruption.
probably, everyday life was one unknown tragedy after another. The more certainty in the early world, the more likely it would be that they'd see tomorrow.
Plato's guardians would spend 15 years working with the producer class if i remember rightly, before being qualified for office at 50 years old. This was his way of grounding the guardians in the real world after all their philosophical training.
Do you know where this is stated? I can see how this would heavily ground the Philosophers and also involve and intermixing of the steel class with the gold class to exchange some wisdom, and enough to "understand" each others class instead of switching classes and jobs completely.
I believe it's slightly different.. I was under the impression that the guardians would work in office from 35-50, at which point they'd come out of office to dedicate their life to the pursuit of philosophy
Every political philosopher that came after had been focused on one aspect of the Republic. Footnotes to Plato's brilliance.
I'd criticise Plato if i could blame him for these ideas but of course he's hiding behind a character he may have created which keeps him from criticism. So i'll just have to say Socrates was far from brilliant infact shortsighted. Was Plato brilliant as a recorder and memoriser, artistic in hios style of writing - not sure. But beautiful to read.
Jesus Christ was a carpenter. Can you imagine the deep shit we be in if he stayed a carpenter?
Carpentry was a middle class profession just like IT is today
I agree with the criticism of this society. It Reminds me a bit of ‘Brave New World’ minus the soma. In fact, it reminds me of Plato’s discussion of the cave.
I couldn't stop thinking about Brave New World the whole time. That book was really sad.
The real meaning of Plato's Cave, Plato wasn't trying to awake you form the Matrix, Plato wanted to build the Matrix
The guy in the purple jacket:
"Wow! Im ecstatic. Please tell me more.
This is so good that i thought it's ending 2 times before it did, first time was halfway through and the next a few minutes later. Very well explained. It could also be used easily for language training, especially the seoncd part
This video was absolutely amazing, thanks so much - its the best, most simple yet helpful I have seen, GREAT thank you!
You're welcome, glad you enjoyed :)
The city would end up looking like the movie ‘Divergent’ and it would be a complete dystopian nightmare
The way you evaluate and explain the concept is amazing.
Nice to be here👍👍👍
Thank you, glad you are here :D
What a great breakdown! I appreciate the debate as well. This gives me much to think about!
It's easy to see how the Republic is such an influential work, yet also very flawed!
Thank God I hit the bell to get notifications for your channel! So valuable information and so clearly explained. Thank you!
You're very welcome. Thank you for watching :D
It’s been a few years since I read the The Republic. Thank you for a nice summary.
A pleasure, thanks for watching.
I love the criticism and debate part... Beautiful analysis
Thank you :D
Thankyou for this! This is exactly what I've wanted
You're welcome, glad we could help.
I have a lot of trouble understanding philosophy but your videos help immensely. Thank you.
Pleasure, glad we could help.
Oh, how I love this channel.
Very detailed thank you so much
Thx for another great upload philosophy vihe! Youre one of my FAVORITE youtube channel and I have been waiting for your fascinating upload! Can you also make videos covering some of the important pre -socratic philosophers such as the sophists,heraclitus,parmenides etc...?
It's a pleasure. And thank you for the recommendations, we will definitely look into this.
Very interesting. Especially the brief debate at the end. I believe a society is only as good to the extent that each citizen takes personal responsibility to educate, themselves on all matters relating to government, philosophy and ethics and strives to live in accordance with these for the betterment of the whole as well as personal fulfillment in carrying out the tasks one is most well suited to perform. Unfortunately we as humans are all self serving to some extent therefore, some system of checks and balances is necessary to ensure that a mode of justice is upheld regardless of the willingness of the people to take personal responsibility for its fulfillment.
Yea it's really a time when people come together and rebuild the basic structure of our society for good eo no one is left behind.
Love it.....
Would STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS.
love that.
I really really love this
This has opened my understanding more on Plato's philosophy as to what an Utopian society entails
Thanks a bunch
You're welcome, glad you enjoyed :)
*dystopian... That shit was trash
@@PhilosophyVibe great video though, I mean Plato and Socrates were delusional on this one
Well well well...look who's back in my feed. Used you guys for my A level exams now i'm using you for Uni Essays. The wind of change blows through.
We’re happy to still be helping 😀 Good luck in the Uni course.
Wow, I like these discussions.
Glad you enjoyed :)
this was amazinggggggg. I have so much fun watching ur videos
Thank you!
What a fascinating class!!! Thanks. :)
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
This was really nicely broken down thanks guys keep up the good work.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed :)
The discussion at the end was great
Thanks :)
Very articulate and nicely explained.
Thank you 😀
The secret of a "Perfect Society" is the lack of stress. As children, mankind sets the standard for the idea of happiness. Stress works against this idea of happiness. As children, we learn the dynamics of our functioning society through our parents who influence us while maintaining a tax structure, for the sake of our infrastructure. By teaching children about the importance of the infrastructure, I contend individuals will exercise their TALENTS. Stress can be avoided by immersion into a field the child or student can learn from. Once a person's identity is discovered through life's daily drama, the pursuit of this identity is what I consider someone's destiny. This pursuit is what will stimulate a tax structure while maintaining our infrastructure. The perfect society.
Excellent analysis.
Thank you :)
Huxley’s ISLAND detailed the same schematic of the community raising children. When I one day have children, I have a hard time believing I would not wish to raise him/her, yet I understand the design behind it, and, actually, somewhat agree with it. This society he depicts truly has the community in mind and not the mere individual. In this regard, it seems tough to us to deal with in our sick modern thinking, but maybe that’s a sign to see the veracity in it
Thank you gentlemen. I listened to The Republic by Plato (Audiobook) from WatchTheJRE Channel.
Loved your sumarry here and points of view. Thank you for everything.
The biggest thought in my head right now is that this book is a psyop created by the ruling class to wear down and deflate the mind of modern day philosopher kings. That's my skepticism and paranoid disposition talking. I think there is a Power of Goodness available to mankind and it communicates through our conscience using intuitive feelings, not a spoken voice. This thing seems to have what i call a dream, where it's in battle with a Power of Evil for the will of man to follow it and get its dream established, a dream which will be totally beneficial to the positive aspects of nature which i hope includes man himself. Where the Evil Power wants to persuade us to destroy the planet.
I know what the Power of Goodness wants us to do. It's very simple and pretty obvious actually. I think it would have to work on a make it up as you go along basis and i think Socrates would have a field day talking to me personally. I know for a fact he would wipe the floor with my thoughts as at the moment i just havent got the skills he has to see and explain things like he can. But i have to be honest with myself and i'm realising that i need to try and adopt Socrates' ways of deliberating and spend probably the next few years trying to bring the dream into a realistic plan in my mind. Not sure.
Thank you so much for yesterday convincing me to get started on The Republic. An excellent experience.
Thank you for this. This really helped me clarify more about my own idea of the utopian world.
A pleasure, glad we could help.
SOOOO GOOD
This really helped me in my philo class! Learned a lot! tysm
A pleasure, glad we could help. Good luck in your philosophy course.
Critical thinking at it's best. Love this.
Very successful thinks are discussed and expressed. Giving visual images of the ideas are very good to keep in mind which also cause more clear ideas. Thank you for preparing, telling and sharing these ideas with us. I was very pleased to watch such video.
Thank you very much, so glad you enjoyed.
this channel is so helpful fr
Thank you :)
Thank you so much
You're welcome :)
i actually understood this .. understanding Plato was a big hit for me but this made it easier
black people can't understand plato
@@helipeus1882 why do think that? Are you racist?
It’s obvious from the debate at the end that the person didn’t read the Republic, all of his points were already dismantled by Socrates.
Plato's and Socrates ' philosophy are all about balanced and harmony, avoiding self-interest conflict that causes competition ang striving to be great..
The discussion at the end reminded me of some of the ideas Dostoevsky discussed in “Notes from the Underground”. In Plato’s republic, every citizen is given the position that they would excel at, which should lead to happiness. Yet because they didn’t choose that position but were assigned it, they lose their free will and will be miserable in it. Dostoevsky even went as far as to claim that eventually someone would act out against this government solely because they want some control over their own lives.
Thats rebellion
@@Laocoon283It is not rebellion, it is the choice of having options in their hands and free will.
It is natural when someone fell dominated or controlled they will always rebel against that dominance. That's why the perfect state is not possible.
Republic is just a fantasy.
@@izazali9988 It's still rebellion though
@@Laocoon283Living in The Republic would be most distopian since everything is choosen for you, you didn't choose anything. Your role is predefined even before your birth and you cant even escalate them.
@@izazali9988 Yea that's the point I'm making lol. He mentioned Dostoevsky so I was riffing on the famous chapter of The Brothers Karamazov called the Grand Inquistor. The chapter right before that one is called Rebellion where the brothers are debating the problem of evil and justice with the climax of the chapter resulting in one of the brothers saying something like "even if this is the way god meant for things to be I find it so unjust that I would refuse to participate in it" to which the other brother responds "that's rebellion".
Sounds like North Korea, with the difference being that the guardians being the party and military (which are one in the same) and philosopher king(s) being the party leadership, albeit in Plato's society the masses are detached from the kingship and guardians whereas in North Korea the party is subordinated to the masses and private property is abolished for all people. Also, type of employment is flexible in North Korea whereas that isn't the case in Plato's society. I have friends that have been to North Korea and the msm and corporate sponsored NGO narrative is mostly lies, with defectors (often kidnapped by China and South Korea) being bribed large sums of money to make stuff up. The cope the elite have to engage with so so bad that the people they bribe say the craziest stuff, like Yeon Mi Park saying people would push the trains to get to work (since there is no electricity but somehow they have a intranet and have state media which requires tvs) with their organs falling out due to disease and starvation (try imagining that absurdity) among other lies she's told.
so kallipolis is basically north korea?
This channel is awesome!
Thank you!
Awesome vid!
Thanks!
This was great!!
Thank you :)
Excellent
Thanks
This video has fantastic content. Keep up the good work. It is only through this video, that I got to understand the realmeaning of Plato's words. The high level of descriptive writing he used in his book, was out of my mind.
Glad it was helpful!
I think a utopia would be akin to the greatest happienss for the society, rather than the greatest economic prosperity.
The problem with happiness is that it's not concerned for the future. It's only concerned with how you're feeling right now. Drugs can make you happy, but they won't make you well off. Gluttony can make you happy, but it also leads to an early unpleasant death. Happiness is important but maybe something like proliferation of the community is even more important.
I love your video 😍😘💎🙏please I'm studying the Ion, the republic, the laws, Aristotle's poetics and longinus. Can I please get sample questions to practice for exams or if you could do a video on them 💎🙏😊
Thank youuuu!!!
You're welcome :)
Plato also supported Eurgenics and infanticide
Which is good for humanity
@@jameseldridge3445 People with disabilities can work hard and improve society in unexpected ways.
This would make an increible dystopian movie!
Divergent series
@@williamprescott6432It can be better than Divergent. Like a pre-industrial revolution 1984 economy mixed with Brave New World Child conditioning child centers without cloning, drugs, and and sexual debauchery. With Fahrenheit 451 censorship of poetry. With a focus on Education like the 1930s "We".
Here when 74k views and 95,5k subs. Very interesting channel
Thank you!
The metal myth / noble lie isn't that unbelievable. It's not too dissimilar to dharma and how it has been used to form a very strict caste system in hindu societies for thousands of years
I agree om prem
You mean the Caste System.
Dharma is moral law in India.
Karma is the consequences of past life affecting your rebirth Samsara.
Samsara is the cycle of rebirth.
Caste system is your assigned dharma deciding your career based on karma from past lives that changes during a cycle of Samsara.
True. I believe the French followed a similar structure, just like some of the other authoritarian societies.
@@diogenes6868 I would like to know more. You seem very knowledgeable on French Authoritarianism
You oversimplified the Dharma and Caste dynamics.
Amazing
Thanks
It could be the case our reality is programmed to appear to change. If none of the things are real then the apparent change can also be programed?
Thanks
Thank you for the Super :)
Can we have something on Phenomenology and Causality please?
I LITERALLY JUST REDISCOVERED THIS IDEA WITHOUT KNOWING OF PLATOS PLAN. Almost down to a tea. What I had was
Companies do shady things because if not, (money scare folder) they risk failure and they won’t profit therefore unemployment which is dangerous.
There should be a form employment in which the workers don’t care about profits and they let the government take care of them sustainably with smart methods like the Air Force not some cheap corrupt bad government sponsored foods. Their form of Medicare is around the clock physicians in the community who are also in the program. This ensures them a good home, good food, good treatment, everybody symbiotically taking care of each other who is important enough. As long as they’re providing for the community or working for research and innovative ideas, they can be in that community. Have a shelter. And once in a while take them to good experiences which allow them to experience “luxury” at points. Of scientists, physicist, etc money doesn’t exist in this community, but it exists so that these people aren’t afraid of survival
Criminals in jails often, they have all their needs met food shelter…. So why do they turn to a world of currency inside? How would this be different from the artificial utopia
Why doesn’t the government instead of giving companies and groups a lump some of money for research, why not pay them a certain budget and if the work is proven successful, they can then positively reinforce them by giving them the next job needed for a work in for research or the next step of that research. This ensures that the money gets used wisely
This guy said imagine being able to elect your own boss and combine with companies to push forward innovation
ENERGY_
th-cam.com/video/VD15-2Uriyc/w-d-xo.html
This will be great in gyms for aerobic
exercises, in bus stops and it can potentially
turn school staircases into power mills.
A great alternative in places that have clouded
skies frequently or long rainy seasons which
could hamper solar energy generation.
Put it in a club or dance floors
Powered by Solar energy?!? Or a machine that works with gravity
Community gardens| rooftop solar panels|
the criticism expanded from one person being unable to accept their position to the entire city being unable to accept their positions and therefore the entire city being miserable. He forgets that if the person, the carpenter, was evaluated and determined unfit to be a auxiliary then he should not be an auxiliary and wont fit in there and will therfore be more miserable in that position even if that is what they chose.
More like he forgets that the city can "get rid of" that outliner. Pretty simple.
Very helpful
Glad we could help.
Love to see some BFV! Such a good game, way more atmospheric etc than Warzone and BF2042. More, please!
I like that you had a Platonic Dialogue within the video but I think there's something you hadn't considered about Plato's perfect society.
Surviving was the chief goal of everyday life in 400 bc. Ordinary people didn't have hobbies or a large list of ambitions like we do in the modern age. Also, if you were a craftsman, you couldn't just pick up a philosophy book because philosophy (as well as any other trade) took a life time to learn. So most likely you would not have situations where someone starts out in one profession and then wish they chose another one, their home life and profession pretty much consumed most of their thoughts, time and energy.
well a similar system still exists today in india called as caste system
and lot of people believe in it
the only doubt is i don't know whether they are sane minded person or not !!!
❤❤❤❤❤❤
#Wisdom #Courage #Moderation 10:59 #Justice
3 min in and it already sounds like socialist utopia
Last time I was this early, it was still "only two weeks to flatten muh curve"
I think you really wanted to make that joke, lol
what do the unemployed do in the kalliopolis?
I'm confused with a fact that plato advocated about the finding of reality which we're escaping to explore because we're too much bounded by the shadowed world of bigger reality. And in his book Republic , he has made the guardians ( the ruling class) out of reality being totally totalitarian. The concept of philosopher kings having the knowledge of books is different from the reality of understanding. Isn't it?
Correct me if I'm wrong or missed any ideas.
even how his ideas are written is difficult to understand. hes very hypocritical and jumps back and fourth a lot.
i think we have to come to realize that the macro way in which we approach society and how each individual handles the micro selfhood have to be different. they are different things. many, many people (philosophers, politicians, layman, etc.) make this mistake. the state and the individual are separate things and need to be thought about differently. relativity the physics of the large is different than quantum physics, the physics of particles. it seems to me that plato's teachings are extremely profound for the individual living their life, but they are terrible on how to organize a society. i think plato was a greater genius than john locke for example, but locke's dependance on common sense, and openness to things outside his systemic thought make him a much better political philosopher. within the realm of philosophy it is considered the holy grail to achieve school of thought that works for everything, the individual, economics, the political, all handled in one cohesive system of thought, i don't think that's achievable. life is too paradoxical.
Unless we one day could become Ant or Bee @@asielnorton345
Because nobody is perfect, a perfect society is simply not possible. This is why utopian ideologies such as Marxism inevitability result in famine, genocide, and societal collapse.
Yes it’s impossible to control an exponentially growing human species. We are a selfish virus. Nothing more.
Marxism isn't utopian lol
as hollowmen5934 pointed out, Marxism is not and does not strive to be Utopian. Though there are "Utopian socialist" paradigms, that does not characterize Marxism generally. But yes, in general, I agree.
This was very helpful, I guess the old ma voice just gives me the ick
#BasicNeeds #EssentialServices #Food #Clothing #Health #Shelter 2:02
The answer to the criticism against lack of mobility in social class is dealt with in the final book. This isn't your only life.
People program the lives they want to live once they become aware of freedom of choice and evolution.
If your lot in life is meager, but in your soul you greatly desire advancement, the soul can program that for it's subsequent incarnation.
This argument is in the final book, the myth of Er. It's essential to understanding politics, yet such a notion is lost to us generally. However, in circles it is common knowledge that for instance Trump is the reincarnation of General George Patton, who was the reincarnation of George Custer, etc. Destiny is an important concept. If you don't like your lot, you are not eternally stuck -- oh how absolutely terrible! Such a notion has a very modern ring to it.
In, say, America, we frequently end up with bronze-souled leaders in many cases merely due to chance. Touche is a self-begotten goddess, says Aristotle. The less evolved the soul, the more it is subject to randomness in regards the life it sets out. Dumb luck, we say. This is why Plato is correct in having rigorous standards of gold -souled law makers; who by the way shall receive merely the funds needed to survive. Sounds like 45, who refused pay and lost half his 4 billion dollar fortune in order to selflessly serve a once great nation. This is proper. America fell away, in part, bc of this oversight.
I don't think the Guardians are control this strictly, this is new.
Purple dude creeps me out
#Justice #Goodness #GoodHuman #Happiness #Aspirations #Values #Perfection #Society #SocialContract 1:11
Interesting idea, I guess for the time.
Nowadays, we definitely have a structure a bit like that, with a ruling class, a police force/bureaucracy, an army and producers.
However you can totally see the problems with this. Not only does it have no social mobility, this rigid structure would be a big creator of corruption.
The bureaucracy would have no idea what to do about emerging fields. They'd have no idea how to say someone should be making websites or houses.
On top of that, if you cross them once they can change your job to garbage cleaner and nobody can say anything.
This is an 1984 kind of society, where those at the bottom are stuck being a tool of those at the top, who have no incentives in making society work well, instead, need only to enrich themselves
Is this imply injustice for the guardians? and am really interested to know more about the trainer, So Socrates, who is going to be the first trainer of these guardians?
It implies that Art of War will train them. AKA economic is warfare.
👍👍👍👍👍😎
I or ready knew that
I know the "con" arguments in this video will sound very convincing to most people, but they are actually very weak, although it takes too long to type out the refutations.
13:37 you missed the point of innatism’s role in the development of man’s desires. Thus no limits
seems that the republic is a citicism of society in general.
I really like this interpretation. I think Socrates (as a character in republic) speaks ironically, too.
14:44 - 15:05
Technology/innovation is also driven by profit and greed. If there was no profit to be made, there would be no cars, smartphones, plumbing, or lightbulbs, etc etc. Competition is what drives innovation, if there was no competition, then there is no purpose.
These are nice ideas in theory but in practice they would suck
The producers: forced to keep the same job even if they don't want it which would lead to discontent, which in turn would lead to them either doing a poor job or rebel against the society.
The auxiliaries: yeah you can say "they must be just" all you want but that's not human nature. They would inevitably lead to corruption. Specially if they're picked when they are children, what if they grow up and dont want to do it anymore or they get hurt in battle? what do they do now? they trained all their lives for a battle they cant participate in anymore rendering them useless.
Guardians: same as auxiliaries. Power leads to corruption. Specially when they lie and detach themselves from the rest of the society.
This society would only work if humans acted like a hive mind like bees.
If it was still 347BCE then perfect.
When a man knows too much of what is of value, through experiencing freedom of choice. He will become enlighten to use opportunities in life which are offered to him. Rather than being boxed into limiting beliefs of his one purpose.
The counter argument is rather invalid. We live in a social structures which encourage opportunities.
When a baby is born, the baby is born into no knowledge, the child understands its world by exploring the opportunities which awaits the child..
Plato merely views the structure of a Kallipolis from a state perspective.
To be able to for state to run just, sacrifice of self have to be made. To focus on the state.
This Plato's idea of Kallipolis would work.
Though not under today's standard. People know too much to be forced into limiting conditioned positions. We know too much about self identity, and the value of attomany, the desire to stretch out our knowledge gives one a sense of value to self. In persue happiness. Which allows freedom and movement.
The idea of Kallipolis to work, each individual would have to go through major ego deaths, and give up the value of attomany, for the state. Pouring everyone's individuality into the state. Would create the perfect state.
One must lose the idea of that they have passions outside of what they know. To lose the ego in favour of state, only sticking to what you are good at. Only has limitations to someone born into a society who was given opportunities and choices.
Whom understands freedom is paramount..
The counter argument can only argue from a place of liberty. Which holds a bias.
Kallipolis can work. Though can not work in today's society.
Counter argument can not predict the outcome of a Kallipolis state, as his argument sits on a bias. Counter argument is viewing it from a liberal sense.
The stoics would have us being at the mercy of being unknowing in favour of the individuals earthy pursuits, which is driven by ego, not soul urgue.
Look at Marcus Aurelius, he is a example of what it could be like to have a leader with Kallipolis attitude, he knew his mortality.
Riches meant nothing. Yet one of the best rulers in history. He is an example of how to live for the state.
Which politics today are missing the point. We have demagogues in power. Absolute power, corrupts, absolutely.
So we can just let AI be the Guardians now though. The most incorruptible beings.
Wtf Plato shaped the whole world indirectly Through his World of Forms idea and the Republic.
I have questions. If there is utopian society everywhere then why we need defense security army’s?????
‘City. The perfect city’… not ‘the perfect world’
A clock like society.
ps. I don't mind living in a Rolex anyway.