The Myth of Er [Plato's Republic]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Plato's Myth of Er
[From Wikipedia] The Myth of Er is a legend that concludes Plato's Republic (10.614-10.621). The story includes an account of the cosmos and the afterlife that greatly influenced religious, philosophical, and scientific thought for many centuries. The story begins as a man named Er, son of Armenios of Pamphylia dies in battle. When the bodies of those who died in the battle are collected, ten days after, Er remains undecomposed. Two days later he revives on his funeral-pyre and tells others of his journey in the afterlife, including an account of reincarnation and the celestial spheres of the astral plane. The tale includes the idea that moral people are rewarded and immoral people punished in subsequent lives.
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Where can I find the picture at 10:27? I suspect that what is meant by sirens are actually the planets, and the whorls their orbits. If that is true, then Odysseus, the prototype for the soul which travels through Generation (waters), is warned against the sirens so as not to become entangled in them (in the spindle of necessity), for in it the soul will become chained to the fate weaved by the Three Fates (siren, from greek seiren, probably from seira, "chain, rope, order"), which leads to incarnation and becoming trapped in the cycle of reincarnations. But this is just a theory so far.
This was very interesting. It actually speaks of much that I believed without having heard of this story before.
That's our native Pagan Spirit pining for us to return to accord with Divinity!
If the "truth" written by any man does not align with the Truth written by God in Nature itself, it is no Truth that will nourish our souls, and bring us nearer to God, or The Gods.
Our Soul gravitates to True Holiness!
And the wisdom of the ancient Pagans and their mythologies is the greatest repository of Divine Truth through Human Eyes that I have found!
Sorry for preaching, this recitation of the old master just got me pious as f**k, lol!
Yeah because youve been told this ever since
What they knew we have forgotten. I see that there are many ways to God.
Christians call them pagans now but in their time, Christianity was just another way to honor God's.
Btw freedom of religion, while basically necessary in today's society, is cheapened when most are indoctrinated from birth and there are only a few options instead of thousands that were.
This reading was of excellent quality and very much appreciated. Thank you again for your hard work.
Thanks
Thank you! The Myth of Er is my favorite Ancient Greek story!
Mine too!
body of gods Plato was such a Beautiful soul!
May we restore the Nobility of our native Pagan spirit, and find ourselves on the Blessed Isle of our Golden Age! 💛💛💛
Dan, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your work. A breath of fresh air to me my friend. Well done.
Thanks, much appreciated.
Amen. Second the honor and gratitude!
I needed this right now,Thank you
Cheers
This is the theory of metempsychosis. Of the transmigration of the soul. Many claim it to be true yet many claim it to be incomplete. Interesting piece once again.
This story is just one facet of Plato's treatment of the Soul's destiny/journey/transit or whatever. As layered and textured as his grand illustration of metempsychosis is, I'd like to see where these people have found his vision to have left off...
Especially if this is a serious (not cynical) theological critique
@@Lu11abi there’s a stream of religious belief leading to Plato. Starting with Orpheus, a Thracian who was reverted by the Mycenaean Greeks shortly before the Trojan War, onto Pythagorus a 5th century BC genius. Plato was influenced by these people, and his belief in some kind of reincarnation is likely.
It only gets downplayed and disregarded because most of his readership are scions of Abraham (Christians, Jews, Muslims) and don’t believe in reincarnation and don’t want to believe their precious philosopher Plato believed in such a thing.
For some reason I haven't checked in for some time...
Though I am glad to be here again, and it brings me great joy to see that you are still active producing great stuff of your own (and even reciting what might be some of the greatest stuff that has ever been made).
May your hard work be rewarded tenfold! and in the meantime you have my sincere thanks and appreciations.
exception production! I am experienced with much of what this story is accounting on.
this reading, with images is an incredible treat.
Plato seems to be describing the universe according to the vedic texts or atleast his own interpretation of it. Not sure if that's obvious already to everyone watching but I thought I would point it out.
Are you referring to the churning of the milky ocean? I hadn't considered that link.
@@TheModernHermeticist Im referring to his description of the higher worlds and lower worlds as well as when he references that everything in the universe turns in one direction but appears as if its going in another. If u look up "Vedic Universe Model" on TH-cam there's a video showing what the universe looks like according to those texts n it has a lot of similarities to the idea of the universe he's describing in this video its pretty cool
Thank you for sticking to the story : )
Your channel has become a perfect way to end my day
Thank you for making this, this is great. Please consider doing the Phaedrus and/or the Parmenides.
I may consider doing the theme of the Charioteer one day - not sure about Parmenides though, i think it'd put a lot of people to sleep.
Thanks for another gem. So well read, and the images are almost too much. Almost.
"too much is almost enough"
Frederick Seidel
One of the early NDEs - near death experiences - the one in which Raymond Moody ('Life After Life') realized the universal nature of the phenomenon.
Ammong the relatively few negative accounts, according to stats/patient accounts, they occur to those with a notion of a punishing God. (In the US, it often happens to Christian fundamentalists.)
In most of those accounts, tho, after the initial terror, the experiencer is met by some 'light being' or crossed over loved one that leads them into 'better territory'.
Advances in medical protocol have seen countless people resuscitated in the last few decades alone.
In the great majority of NDEs, an all encompassing love, often described as 'ineffable', changes the lives/outlooks of the experiencer.
Sensational! that’s my bedtime story sorted, needed a change from ‘the secret of secrets😜
Impeccable pacing and cadence everytime sir 👍👏
Thanks for this. I really needed it.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this
My pleasure!
For me, a life changing story, perhaps an experience.
from Elusis to the next great topic! I love it!
More to come!
Thanks boss
The fates to me are the 3 aspects of the Moon, waxing crescent, full moon, and the waning crescent. The spindle and shaft are the Caduceus. The shaft being the straight and narrow path of balance (Great Work). To pass under the throne is to be vailed by ISIS or the moon. Lethe or forgetfulness is the dream state that is sustained by falsehood and is the path of involution. Aletheia or truth is the path of evolution.
Good show! 👏
Thanks!
Just found you. Awesome work!
Interestingly I had a NDE(near death experience) and much of this tale I experienced. There was a judgment or life review, mine didn't go so well. Lol😒
You can see souls coming & going it looks like vortex's of souls going up & down.
I'm now curious who are the judges? Plato learned from the Egyptian's , are there any Egyptian sources on this?
Hebrews 9:27
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
The Egyptian view of the judgment is under Osiris I believe
Read some of the writings of E. A.Wallis Budge.
Thank you
You're welcome
Interesting story. If we relate it to Buddhism, which could be Nirvana? Is it the heaven where happines awaits, or is it the place you go when you do not have any desires(even chosing your etenal souls right for rebirth)...
Read Dante's Divine Comedy. Long, but worth the journey.
I'm reading this to the kids tonight.
excellent
Are you aware of Russell Gmirkin's theory that Plato's work influenced the compilers of the Old Testament?
I ask because of the Judeo-Christian parallels with the myth of Er.
Of course, you could say there are Buddhist parallels too, and I think I remember hearing that some Jewish ideas of the afterlife are more similar to what are generally regarded as being more typically Greek i.e. a grey and uninteresting condition.
I haven't heard of R.G. but I'm certainly familiar with the idea that both OT and NT compilers were living in a milieu where Hellenistic philosophy was inescapable. I've looked into links between, say, the book of Daniel and Hesiod's Works and Days, but I haven't gotten too much into the specifics in regards to Plato and OT so I'll check him out.
@@TheModernHermeticist
Since you mention the New Testament and the syncretism that was going on during the periods when the New and Old Testaments came into being, I have to mention Philo of Alexandria, who is the most obvious forerunner to Christian theology that I've heard of.
I'm sure you more about him than me, but his fusion of Stoicism, Platonism and Judaism was obviously carefully considered, but still 'organic' in the sense that it was completely sincere in its conception.
I do think people like Joe Atwill and James Valiant are on to something though and that, when it comes to the literalisation of these metaphysical ideas which actually _is_ Christian dogma, there was a more conspiratorial aspect to all that which had to do with keeping more nationalist and purist Jewish factions in line. I think the connections of Philo's nephews to the Herods and Roman elites are a clue to that.
I'm not saying that either Ellis, Valiant or Atwill are right about everything, and they seem to throw the baby out with bathwater by missing the syncretic aspect and assuming that Christian thought is just gobbledygook - at least Atwill and Ellis do, and Valiant is an atheist and Ayn Rand fan. But still, I think the general thesis is a no-brainer personally.
I more recently heard of Russell Gmirkin's ideas, and i think they're interesting, but I can't see so much of an obvious motive for any social engineering because, while the universalism of the New Testament would suit the Romans and more cosmopolitan and Hellenised Jews, I don't see how the exclusivism of the OT would suit the Ptolemies. -
Sorry if some of attempts at technical terms aren't quite right, but I hope you get the gist. Spellcheck doesn't like some of them, but I don't entirely trust it 😄
A question: if the cause is always better and more noble than the effect, how can a mortal cause the following effect on an immortal: a condemnation or a reward ? Can we be better than the gods? See, the Gods are, by definition, immobile motors, simple and beyond time and space. So they can be affected by our "sins" or good actions, so they cant condemn us.
Hereat we confront mystery indeed!
Dan, what translation of the republic is this from?
A l g o r i t h m for my boy from ya boy
one step closer to supermario
Τέτριξ, μάτριξ.
beans!!! yay!!!! ayayayaa
My brother! Do you ever play with Finnegans Wake? Please do. It is possible Joyce was a channel for the god of language, Hermes or Thoth or what have you: "Its not the words. Its not the music. Its what's behind." Love from my self to your self.
Have you read 'Coincidance' by Robert Anton Wilson? He makes a fascinating dive into Joyce and 'Finnegan's Wake'. He likens it to holographic prose. Maybe he was channeling Thoth. It is assuredly dense with archetypal imagery and internally self-referential sentence structure.
@@lairdhaynes1986 I know RAW's work on Joyce, quite good. The problem with Joyce is similar to Shakespeare, which is, you referenced the self reflexivity, Joyce's text seems more aware of its critics than the critics seem of the text. And so often in engaging with the Wake, folks become characters in it, they subconsciously enact parts of the book. Joyce himself said creating the work was a magical operation. Strangely enough, often he would mention people and read days later about their death. And the Egyptian Book of the Dead was a main intertext.
Another problem is Jung himself. You mentioned archetypal psychology, that is, Jung. Jung developed his own theories in a kind of mental struggle with Joyce. Reading Joyce's Ulysses psychologically broke Jung down to the point he had to write a letter about it. Much of his later work came out of that struggle. Later Campbell derived the idea of the 'monomyth' or heroes journey from the Wake. The only problem is that in so doing Campbell became a 'Shaun the Postman' figure, oversimplifying Joyce's ideas and then passing them off as his own to make a "his money and mark." Jung was also obsessed with any occult ideas he could use to justify his own incontinence, malice, stupidity and beastiality.
The crux of the biscuit is that Joyce is the reigning intellectual and artistic king. He consciously chose to become that person, and then did. Those who choose not to engage with his work manage to pull of a great feat of human depravity: being simultaneously arrogant and insecure.
Television is a major theme in the Wake, although television was not invented when he was writing. Monomyth, quark: just two words that came from the Wake.
If you observe these things long enough, you will find that all so called criticism of Joyce devolves into a bitter, insecure tirade against his obscurity and a passive aggressive o-well-i-dont-know-i-just-like-things-you-can-actually-understand scoffing.
Its strange, because all of the most intelligent people, along with all the filthiest people, love Joyce. It's just the middle brow, bourgeois and literary (i.e. people who believe in the power of the work of Jonathan Franzen) types that are frankly intimidated by Joyce's sense of humor.
I do love Joyce, but I tend to leave the reading of Joyce to the pros. There's some really good radio play productions out there made with really enthusiastic Irish readers and they're just delightful.
@@TheModernHermeticist Give this a shot. It's a full marathon reading of the Wake by an Italian comedian. ubu.com/sound/joyce_fw.html
Joyce himself said one should listen to rather than read the work.
"List! O list!" -WS
Ulysses also manages to be simultaneously an episode of Seinfeld and a complete education in Western culture. And Dubliners-when it comes to pure, beautiful, literary sentences . . . A very underrated book.
Anyways, I love you Danny boy. Keep the well frothing.
@@TheModernHermeticist Also, the Wake is far from high-brow "highbrew" as the Wake would have it, punning on Hebrew and alcoholic beverages. For example, the lyricist for the Grateful Dead was a great Joycean. I encourage you to explore the Wake because, given your background, you will get a lot of laughs and more than a few wows.
dude, this reminds me of something i read in like socrates or one of those old roman philosophers once
So-krates
@@TheModernHermeticist all we are is dust in the wind, man
mmmmmaaaaaannnnn
@@TheModernHermeticist whoooaaaaa
Who translated this version? Sorry if im just missing it.
Could you please read Lucius’ vision of Isis from Apuleius’ The Golden Ass? With images?
Not a bad idea, I'll consider this.
@@TheModernHermeticist Yes, please. I decree it!
With images you say!? 👀👀
🎈🎉🐳🐌I can relate to everything. just like my life...i truly hope the will be justice in the next world?🔮🌳🔮🍀🙌
But its not a mysth ita the Angelarium
ancient armenian esoteric wisdom
Heck ya dan
Yay
I need to paraphrase this for a lecture. Ugh
Appreciated reading and graphics thanks! P.S. It's pronounced Urr.
It's with an Eta, which is not a u sound.
What do you make of the seeming identification of Necessity (A Goddess) and the Form of the Good?
I'm not sure; it seems as if Necessity is above good (and lack of good) here, but I don't know if that's a correct assessment, especially since Justice seems to loom over, or be ontologically prior, to all of them (and this presumably is part and parcel of the form of the good).
@@TheModernHermeticist Well it seems to me that the basic philosophical point of the Myth is the unity or cooperation of Justice and Necessity. The universe will eventually reveal the falsely pious and they will be punished. So I would agree that Justice is prior to Necessity, or else that Justice and Necessity are the same.
However, what I find most interesting is this idea that the cosmos rests in lap of Necessity. This along with the fact that Plotinus characterises the One in feminine language would seem to indicate to me at least that Plato concieved of the supreme principle as Feminine. We can draw influences as we wish to this.
Obviously Zeus is also identified as the King of the Philosophers.
@@peterclaassen8139
Justice, as well as all else determined by Her to be 'of necessity,'
as with The Fates, is daughter too of Necessitas/Ananke.
'And 'twas found necessary that there BE Justice!
And thus by edict of Necessity, it came-to-be that She did.'
It can be observed dear Peter that, at times the setting-aside of
Justice becomes done 'of necessity,' our own American Revolution
having been but one such example of this; all of the King's Law,
and all of the King's men having been set aside utterly/necessarily.
'Hope this fills-the-Gap where mostly conflation was before?
@@TheModernHermeticist
Your first inclination would seem the one more likely.
Consider --
'It is necessary that there BE justice, and there-
for came it into being, as Necessity did mandate
from knowing.'
Of all things experiential as actually self-proving, the
existence and actions of Necessitas/Ananke, prove
always the most easily enjoyed.
(Please see below, M.H., my comment made in re-
sponse to that of dear Peter Classen's?)
3.7.22
14:40 🌼🦄💚😲😲😲So the massive INEQUALITY AND INJUSTICE AND OLIGARCHY is ordained by HEAVEN??? we chose our LOT ??? this is a pretty SICK EXPERIMENT...if it's real....😭😭😭😭💝😀😉😀💝👻
It’s up to us to ignore it I guess… that’s what I tell myself
Ahhh yeee
My friend turned me on to this channel 2-3 years ago.
Still aint watchin' it.
Steel was non existent at the time.