Magic: The Gathering Pro Tries to Guess if a Yu-Gi-Oh! Card is Banned! ft.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
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8 minutes in and this man is so much better at card evaluation for a game that he doesn’t even play than most of its actual players.
He a pro in mtg that why and know some yugioh how the game is play so he using mtg and putting in yugioh as u saw it other TH-cam does this but he keep points and only does 5 cards or 3 decks
Drafting sets week in and week out will do that. And with the pace of Magic releases, that's a lot of cards.
@@timdoe8895 For real, you'd think he was a 10 year veteran with his thinking if he didn't have to re-read every card. The explanation on Ash Blossom was classic LSV
he prob one of the best if not the best magic player so makes sense
He also codeveloped his own cardgame, eternal so he pretty much understands cardgames like no other
"why don't you introduce yourself"
LSV, in front of his wall of trophies, awards, and prizes, "Well, I've been playing Magic for a while now"
By God, this guy is soo smart, nailed almost every card, not bias, and very analitic and centered. Best "tries to guess" and crossover guest I've ever seen
And get them very fast, and that is very impressive
This is what a Pro Mtg player looks like. Not "i topped cuz i opened shifter a lot of games in a row".
I didn't know him as I've never interfaced with magic before. The way LSV instantly understood the value of >80% of the cards is wild. Very impressive stuff
Well I mean. He is one of the greatest MTG players of all time.
the guy from cardmarket - magic is also good in his anlysis
This guys fundamental understanding of card games goes beyond the level of even a lot of high level players. The fact he just sat down and looked at a game vastly different from his own and accurately evaluated the power levels of nearly every card was incredibly impressive.
Lsv is the closest to a good we have in the whole cardboard realm...
I think the only thing that needed to be stressed was that ALL yugioh is like the vintage format. Ridiculously fast, games are meant to end in a maximum of 3-4 turns, and that would be a slow game.
I mean, he works in game design and has played them for a living for years. Not that surprising.
The highest level MtG pros are truly built different. I believe it was Frank Karsten (another top 5 MtG pro) who did a PhD focused on game design and probability theory so he could optimize the number of lands in his builds lol
I think part of it is that not only is he a great player, he’s great at communicating his ideas. He’s been creating content about magic for the better part of 20 years at this point
It feels a little silly to count "this card was banned and then only unbaned with a large functional errata" as "not banned"
Yeah, and they show the errata version... For this video they can better show the original.
Oh my god you got Luis Scott Vargas himself! I literally shouted out loud when I saw this
Me too. LSV is the goat. 🤘
I literally pissed and shat my pants when I saw this
FYI it’s Luis
@@Anusien Oops! Fixed
Saying Magic Pro and it's LSV is technically correct but still feels like an undersell.
He’s not a Pro, he’s a PRO.
The pro.
Top 3 MTG players of all time, easily.
Having looked it up it seems like hes a consensus top 3 overall player due to his success and other types of commmunity contributions, after a german gyy Kai Budde who has the most championship wins (7) and player of the year titles (4) and Jon Finkel who has the most top 8s overall
@@ExtraVictoryKai and Jon are both excellent players. Kai is called the German Juggernaut for a reason, but they're definitely not top 3 anymore. They saw most of their success in the early days of the game and while they're still both better than 90% of the field Gabriel Nassif and Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa are definitely the better options of those spots these days.
I love that these were very nuanced because of how experienced the guest seems to be with card games
He is an MTG legend! It was so refreshing hearing his opinions.
Dude's an OG with a ton of success
I'm not a Magic guy, so I don't know him. But, his background seems like the biggest flex and he's well spoken. So, I totally respect him.
you know how MBT talks about limited and draft all the time, and about how limited formats train your card evaluation skills? there's a real case for LSV being the best limited player in mtg history. he is one of the best in the world at card evaluation, especially on the clock and under pressure
and more than just an MTG legend, he used to be a game designer for dire wolf digital and worked on the Eternal card game. He also now is with good luck games and Storybook Brawl. His card game experience is deeeeeepppppp
An interesting point of comparison between YGO and MTG is that in the early life of both games, the spells were busted, and monsters were bad. And now the modern version of both have the monsters as the main focus of most decks.
Yugioh monsters have been pretty good for pretty long
Spells were powerful because they didnt know how to value the effects at the time, and Monsters are strong now because removal are so powerful that if monsters don't have strong triggers they're basically useless or fall behind to other card types
Thats even true with pokemon too
The trainer cars were broken and pokemon were bad
Early on card games have a tendency to undervalue their immediate spell effects vs persisting value pieces like monsters/creatures/pokemon
Make traps busted again!
@@JoeyWheeler-m3s I mean, traps as a mechanic needs a revamp if you want all of them to be viable. Pre-errata Makyura still enables plenty of degenerate stuff which means the effects printed on trap cards are good enough to see play if it's not held back by limitations that is inherent to the card type
LSV is not only one of the best MTG players of all time but is one of the people with the best imtellectual grasp on the game of all time. This translates well to basically all card design as his boss evaluation in the video shows. Thanks Cimo for having LSV on and thank you LSV for coming!
I liked how you spent time to convey past & modern YuGiOh to the mostly unfamiliar guest. Love seeing a veteran card-gamer like LSV have spot-on analysis from strictly having an MtG background (shows how card game skills do translate between games), being able to even decipher the hieroglyphic that is a modern YGO card. It would be awesome to get more card-game pros/experts on the show like Reid or Craig!
I also like how he explains that a card may not be currently banned, but it was powerful enough at one point to be banned previously.
I hate when someone does one of these and they show a card that was powerful on release and stayed a staple for a year or even longer, just to be like "Yeah, this card sucks! Nobody plays it nowadays."
It just kinda shows that YGO has a lot of similarities to MTG. In a weird way, YGO is almost like MTG alternative format but with no mana costs.
Holy shit, this guy is really really good at card analysis. This is the best one of these "other card game player judges YGO cards" vids, by a mile
34:20 LSV figuring out di-fi and macro with Vanity's despite not being told about those cards is really impressive
Floodgates and Handrip effects are the 2 things that are a lot weaker in MtG than they are in Yugioh so its common to see them underestimated.
Like he mentioned, Magic has a very similar card called Energy Field. It doesn't stop your opponent from doing stuff but it prevents all damage that would be dealt to you, and it's removed if a card goes to your graveyard. It's played along with Rest in Peace, a card that exiles everything that tries to go to any graveyard as a soft-lock.
MTG has an infinite mill based on a similar concept. (RIP and Helm of Obedience)
Specially taking into account that in magic, the banish pile is rarely interacted with, and yet nothing Shown to him prior to vanitys pointed toward the fact that the game abuses the banish. Same with grass looks greener and the graveyard. Both the banish and the grave are basically a second hand and nothing in the game points you to that directly. You have to read a lot of cards and keep up with the meta to perceive it.
@magicyami banish is much less of an extra hand and more of an actual graveyard for most decks, tbf
cimooo is one of the best presenters for these types of videos as he actually provides context and chooses cards that require thinking to puzzle out ramping up the difficulty slowly, rather than just showing something broken with no context and forcing people to guess randomly.
He also doesn't go out of his way to try and trick/mind games the guest. I've seen several other content creators (cough, Farfa, cough) try and gaslight the guests to actively get them to screw up. Cimo gives them the context, asks to explain the reasoning and then presents it, which I prefer to the gimmicks.
Doing more than 5 cards also helps, as does having a defined criteria such as being banned as opposed to the nebulous "is this card good?" Question.
How can a guy I've never seen before be so likeable just by seeing him analyzing yugioh cards
Maybe you'd like to check him out on his podcast 'limited resources'. Its a magic the gathering podcast and among other things they do set reviews where they try to analyse and grade all the cards whenever a new magic set comes out. The analysis part is pretty similar i think and he's always interesting to listen to :)
He has amazing natural charisma. It makes him one of the most “fan favorite” mtg players, if not the most of all time.
@orpheos9 It's the beard. Everything changed when he got the beard.
It's crazy how fast he figured out most of the cards. He really understands the fundamentals of card design.
This is the kind of guy you pay to come in and help balance your core game.
You can learn A LOT from him for future design, and his brain works at a level that exceeds thousands of random play testers.
The closest analogue to Equip spell in Magic are not artifacts instead Auras are actually the closest thing to them.
You know, I was initially thinking equipments in mtg are similar to equip spells in yugioh, but I just realized that if the monster dies, I imagine that the equip spell also goes to the graveyard? So then yeah I agree- mtg auras are basically yugioh equip spells
As a Hammer player I was thinking equipments but yeah Auras make more sense since it dies with the creature.
You are correct that the equip spell goes to grave if the equipped monster leaves the field by any means.
I thought the same thing, but you would want to say equipment cause the word is similar.
"[Ring of Destruction] was banned for a short period of time" brother it was 8 years
The fact that he instantly gets the resource system of Yu-Gi-Oh shows how good of a player this guy actually is
seems like there is no resource system lol
@@bevrosity Cards and to some limited extent Life Points.
@@einmensch6694your normal summon is a resource no other card game has. They have unlimited NS but mana, we have no mana but only 1 NS
@@bevrosity Not really. Your life points are a resource, as well as your one normal summon per turn (which is probably irrelevant these days with how common special summoning is). It's so bad that the resource system has to be written into the cards themselves - expect every modern card to have text like "Can only be activated once per turn," "Cost: discard a card", "Can only be activated if X condition", etc. Hence why Yugioh is so hard to get into - every card feels like a paragraph with 2-4 details you have to memorize. Imagine having to memorize a 20 paragraph essay just to play your own deck, and then having to memorize a similar essay for every meta archtype in the game. Not very easy to get into.
@@jgaringan Just say youre stupid and go. Understanding cards arent hard if you arent stupid enough not to know PSCT
Long time Magic player here. LSV was a great guest to have on this series. His ability to break down and explain complex subjects into simple terminology is incredible. No one can focus in on what is truly important like LSV can.
A small communication note: Equip spells function more like Auras, a subtype of enchantment that attaches to a creature and dies with it. Magic's own artifact-type equipment stay behind when the creature it's attached to dies. It didn't affect anything important, but it'll help with communication in the future.
Can you imagine if Equip Spells stayed on the field and could be re-equipped at will?
@@MansMan42069 Well like most things in MTG, equipping has a mana cost associated with it. So It'd be like if the equip spell required you to tribute a monster and then tribute another monster everytime you wanted to re-equip it.
@@moodragonx2 Honestly that would be design space that yugioh could explore. An Equip Spell that can turn itself into a Cont. Spell if it would be destroyed (for some cost) and can activate its effect to equip itself to a valid target.
First time viewer mostly here because I'm a huge LSV & Magic fan, but I just wanted to say your communication / hosting style in this video was REALLY good; you gave just enough explanation of the context & history of these cards to be really interesting for a non Yu-Gi-Oh player while also keeping things moving along quick. 10 out of 10.
It was fun to go through with LSV and see what game knowledge translates. That moissanite one got me good. It’s fun for us seeing Yugioh players introduced to a « mtg pro », and to us it’s THE LSV.
This really shows the brilliance of LSV. He has made a career out of evaluating cards, and his skills speak for themselves. Not even knowing the rules of the game and still being spot on on nearly every card is mindblowing
damn Cimo got LSV. That's crazy. Cool shit!
Can you explain in YGO terms?
@@windunursetyadi he’s one of the greatest to ever play the game and a major fan favorite in the magic community - like if Jesse Cotton had a history of 20+ years in ygo as a consistent top player and if ygo had a pro hall of fame he would be one of the OG inductees
@@windunursetyadihe's got 11 top 8's in what's effectively the world series.
@@FarNorthMtG ah thanks!
@@windunursetyadi He's like if you took the two best players in Yugioh's history and combined their careers. Jesse Kotton with another decade worth of accomplishments at his current output.
HELL YEAH LSV!!! Hyped!!
Also, I love how there's set parameters for this. Not just "good or bad?" When the answer is often used to be good
Cimo you should show the magic cards that get brought up so we can see it too for reference like how theonejame does
I want to congratulate Cimoo on his ability to explain YGO to a MtG player very well, as someone who plays both and has watched videos like this before, it’s amazing to see
It was great not to see a single extradeck monster here. A lot of times, they are just rly confusing to guess the power of
Not only extra deck, cards tied to archetype is also missing. Which are understandable as it will be hard to judge 1 card without context of each of their archetype cards do.
Like engage vs pot of greed.
Yeah a lot of extra deck mosntes themselvs hav effects that wouldn;t be seen as really good on another card but because the extra deck in practice works like a 15 card hand you always open with thise become good, like almost every specific type searcher mostly the ones that search for least popular types like reptiles or rocks.
@@Ms666slayer It sounds a bit like the extra deck is similar to how companion cards in MTG work and one of them called lurrus was one of the most broken cards of all so he might still get it
@@pascal6871 Nah they are fundamentally different, because Extra deck mosnters don't ask for an specific deck bulding condition like companions, also they still have no mama cost.
I love how Graceful Charity is so broken, that it would be insane in every other card game out there
Not all of them. Pokemon might be ok with it.
Faithless Looting is Draw 2 Discard 2 and it's banned in Modern
@@Merilirem Yeah that's probably the only one, but they have draw 7's there in basically every format because they aren't broken. Then they have literal pot of greed in bill and it's fine, no big deal.
Only If It is a supporter, if you could only play 1 spell per turn then graceful would probably be Just ok. Spells work like itens, any draw item without heavy restriction is banned or broken
@@Meriliremnot at all, unlike the strong draw cards graceful wouldnt have a opt restriction that all those types of cards share. As a result it would be an insane card.
Ok, you can't show someone a pre-errata card and ask them if it's currently banned, that's not fair
Yeah that was the one thing about this video that I was a little iffy on. I think he was pretty fair about it when LSV had the reasoning correct for the version he saw
This is the first video I've seen of this channel. TH-cam recommended it to me since I play MTG and watch LSV's content.
I've seen this format of video before with MTG players evaluating another TCG and others evaluating MTG cards. To show cards and ask if they are banned, like Solemn Judgement, and say it was but not anymore is a cop out. I stopped watching right there. Can't errata the rules of the video while playing the game.
@tasteoftacos yeah it bothered me too, but LSV took it like a champ, I wanted to stop it for a minute, but LSV took the time to be here, so I wanted to support him still.
@@manalessgarm1734 LSV understands that 'winning' the game of guessing banned or not is not important here. He doesn't really care if he gets it right or not. What makes this interesting isn't his 'score,' but instead hearing him reason through a system that he has limited experience with. In fact, due to that limited experience, he is likely to 'score' low on this test. While the host's tactic might have been unfair, he's not going to just leave over it - understanding that the content is the analysis and not the score.
On the other hand, Cimo does give a point for guessing they're banned since they are, in a manner of speaking
This is what it looks like when someome actually has a nuanced and extensive understanding of card design and card game design as a whole.
Instead of only having an understanding of the echo-chamber that exists within a card game (or any game in general really) and dedicating themseleves exclusively to the design environment of that game. (Which is not an insult to anyone, it just is what oftentimes happens when people only engage with one game in a genre, like all of the people who only played DnD 5e and make assumptions about all TTRPGs based only off of 5e, or people who make assumptions about all RPGs based only off of having seen/engaged with pokemon, etc)
LSV is also a professional game designer.
@@kateslate3228 yeah
Something that his understanding of card design as a whole reflects
Anyone who follows magic was able to predict exactly what would happen in the video *and* the comments. LSV himself was banned in *fantasy* magic.
I mean, I even knew that he'd make the comment about having seen and enjoyed content like this. He just knows and is straightforward about everything.
yeah, we got him with the morganite! i feel like that card is the perfect bait card for magic players
well in magic we usually get to take more than one turn :D
Big time. I was shouting at me screen this card is insane. Two of everything!
@@prevara5162even when you do the same in yugioh, every single meta deck in the last (I think) 8 years uses hand effects in a prominent way (I checked when morganite was released), therefore they would also not play morganite. Only a few decks actually benefit from it
@@prevara5162playing more than 2 turns... are you guys crazy? Do you actually want your opponent to be able to play the game or somethin?!!
@@boraaksitozgun9912 of course not, that's why we play blue
Haven't watched yet, but you actually got LSV!? This is going to be good!
Edit: LSV's analysis was top notch as expected. Also very fast and concise. Please bring him back and show him some newer crazier cards!
I was just thinking the other day how awesome it would be to get LSV on one of these shows and figured he never would. Love the collab Cimo.
Love this type of content! My one suggestion to whoever edits these videos please if they mention cards outside of the one being rated display it momentarily on screen please and thank you.
54:03 A little bit more context for Mental Misstep: it costed 1, but you could pay 2 life to cast it instead and it negated any 1-cost spell.
In faster formats, 1-cost spells already dominated to the point the card was amazing but since it TECHNICALLY costs 1 too, every deck would start playing the Misstep to counter Missteps. You didnt even need lands since you could always pay the life and games quickly devolved into who drew more Missteps.
I get why LSV said it costs 0 and didnt get much into it but the very technical cost of 1 is what pushed old formats into just misstep wars. Really good comparison of obnoxious designs.
I hated playing a Sensei’s top deck in legacy during this time. Slam top, then check both players hands for number of missteps. Now, both are gone. Solves that problem I guess.
I love how even a person that has never touched Yugioh can take a look at Mystic Mine and say "No, yeah, this is miserable"
This is the crossover stuff I want to see more of. Also LSV's analysis on cards is top tier. He basically evaluated everything correctly about how the cards were used just missed on some of the nuances that make them ok to have in Yu Gi Oh.
Something that I'd love to see, in this kind of videos, would be to ask the magic players what mana cost would make the YGO card balanced in Magic
This guy's reasoning process is really sound. I was really really impressed at how well he went.
Props also to Alex as well. He hosted this really well and in a really engaging way. But also his choice of cards to discuss seems really well thought out. He chose a good selection and cards which pose a good challenge and requires someone with an understanding of card mechanics and yugioh design philosophy and gameplay to make calls on.
LSV is so good at card evaluation, he just seems to intuit things so well, he barely spent any time thinking things through but just pretty much knew each one , and was mostly correct! There's a reason hes one of the best MTG players ever haha
Just to add to the LSV mythos, on top of being a legend as a player and analyst in MTG, he's also designed multiple card games himself-there's probably nobody on the planet better equipped to play this particular guessing game. Fun to see him getting to flex this here.
Oh and calling BS on all the errata'd cards getting counted against LSV. Come on, he got them right with what you showed him. It's just cheating to bait-and-switch him like that.
Let's get a follow-up video where Cimo looks at a low-power MTG format.
Just throw him into a BLB draft and quiz him on the correct picks.
I actually subscribed to your channel as a magic player just because your analytical style is really fantastic. I used to play yugioh as a kid and still vaguely follow the game, hearing you talk about the history of banned cards and how they fit into the bigger picture of how the game plays out is really awesome.
Also lsv really is the goat. I think he could generally outplay kai or jon finkel even though he doesnt have as many accolades (though his resume there is just as formidable as theirs). The man really does just have a better sense of the game than most people do.
Watching this is like hearing michael jordan commentate on baseball. Like sure hes out of his element but you just get a sense of him being a master sportsman in general.
I would love to see you play hypothetical formats like “No Poplar,” “3 Grass,” “No Flameberge,” etc. It would be cool to test whether formats need those cards banned/to remain banned.
Enjoyable episode, the format looks more polished going forward. Some suggestions:
-When showing off cards which got got an errata, the guest should be aware of what version they are evaluating.
Sangan with its old effect prolly would have been banned in any Maxx C format since Tour guide is a +1 plus a Maxx C search. Generically it's a normal for a free +2. Maybe not ban worthy in tcg but still a huge power play someone might easily exploit thru link summoning.
-For the editor: show on screen cards from other tcgs guest point out.
-Especially if the guest knows very little about Ygo, try to avoid cards you 100% gonna miss if you are now aware of the power level and the speed of the game. The most recent guest was smart and recalibrated pretty soon. But it's not fun too see they missed a guess just because "you didnt know Prankratops is actually mid since it does nothing going first while another card you didnt know (Fenrir) is the power crept version. And it is still not banned since ygo cannot afford to put hard limitations on going second cards!"
I mean tehnically u can still search Maxx C with Sangan even today,since the lock only restricts you for the rest of the turn,so u will just use it during your opponents turn,or u can search ash or whatever other handtrap
Yes, very seldom does Ash Blossom gets played face down in defense because that implies you're bricking very hard. Very seldom, very seldom indeed 🙃
There's also a non-zero chance that your opponent kills himself by crashing into a Set Ash Blossom.
🤭
Don't forget that it's a tuner!
ash needs to go for a healthy game
Surely only on a very low LP
Special Ashuna normal summon Ash make Baronne was pretty nice in Swordsoul admittedly
MTG only player here. Cool to see how similar some design/ban decisions are across the games.
I'm educated now, and feel really bad about asking why there wasn't a prog episode this week. My condolences to Gage and his family.
Very cool video! This is by far the best “Magic player evaluates Yu-Gi-Oh! cards” video that I’ve seen. It’s always a pleasure to see LSV’s mind at work and he’s the perfect person for this due to his background in game design as well as Magic.
Solemn judgement is actually so much more powerful in yugi than it would be in magic because the yugioh chain works differently than the stack from mtg in 1 critical way: In yugi once the chain starts to resolve no cards or effects may be activated until the chain finishes resolving, but this is not true for the mtg stack. In the mtg stack after any spell resolves either player can add more to the stack. Solemn judgement locks down a chain in yugi in a way that's much more powerful than split second in that way
I loved this. I thought the host did an excellent job of interviewing and explaining the cards. Fantastic
This was so good, really shows just how incredible LVS is at analyzing cards!
I wish LSV had made more Magic card comparisons. Solemn Judgement was ripe for a Force of Will analogy, showing the difference between "half your life" and "two cards from hand." Gold Sarcophagus was ripe for a comparison with Profane Tutor, etc.
I think Reid Duke would be an excellent candidate for a future video :)
"[Ash Blossom] is not oppressive, it isn't game-ending by any means"
>Several rogue deck players are typing...
I think the biggest issue is that the strength of the best decks that can even play through several hand traps barely flinch at an Ash Blossom. But because the power ceiling is so high, Rogue decks get locked out the hardest by cards like Ash which are one of the few defenses against the OTK fest of the top tier decks
If konami printed decks mostly at rogue tier strength Ash could be banned, but it will never be as long as we have decks as strong as Snake Eyes/Tearlaments.
@@D_Abellus Tbf, I feel like Ash is often the final nail in the coffin rather than an oppressive card by itself. I play paleos, and there's a lot of times where my opponent puts up 2-3 points of interaction and I might barely be able to play through that, but then they have Ash as well, and that turns out to be just one too many disruptions on top of the other ones. Of course, getting something like Reasoning or Grass Ash'ed hurts a lot, but I can't argue with a clean conscience that between Reasoning, Grass and Ash, that the latter is the problem card :P
@@tmaz9474 Yeah it's rarely the deciding card but rather the last staple used to bury the game and force a scoop. Also something else to consider is that taking Ash away also only hurts rogues simply because it's generic interaction that the top tier stuff doesn't have to use if they don't want to, even if they do anyway.
to be fair, LSV comes from a game where disruption is very common.
If your deck can't consistently play through a single Ash Blossom, it's not a rogue deck. A rogue deck is supposed to be an outlier to the meta that has an actual chance at winning games against the meta, but aren't strong enough to consistently perform well/has really bad matchups against non-meta. I'm gonna use Labyrinth in March 2024 MD Duelist Cup because Snake Eyes existed at this point, but the matchup was relatively decent for a few reasons:
1. Furniture was really good at handling going second, Stovie Torbie + Chandraglier started off the turn pretty well, even going second, and you got the opportunity to play on turn 1 going first or second.
2. The funny pink cards that read "You do not play the game :)" and in best of one, floodgates are really oppressive. Adding onto that, Lab had really grindy games, and Kashtira Snake-Eyes was a valid deck at the time, which I wanna say had an OTK line but frequently just threw up a very strong board and passed, so you could dig a while for them.
3. Extra deck. This one is completely subjective, but SE extra deck is incredibly tight, so you couldn't really throw in any good tech cards. In contrast, Lab could tailor the ED to play with more versatility. This also kinda plays into the Pot cards that Lab gets to play, because again, losing a few cards to dig deeper (especially for floodgates) is really good.
That is what a rogue deck is, not a 60 card Toon pile that passes after the third Toon Bookmark gets Ashed
LSV is the GOAT. So much knowledge. He doesn’t even have access to the basic rules and getting most of these spot on. When he drafts a new set in Magic this is a great advantage to people who are trying to figure out which of the new cards are any good or work together. Very entertaining to watch him do his craft.
Whoa, these are usually really fun with MtG TH-camrs. But with THE ACTUAL FACTUAL LSV, this is a treat.
I'm a competitive player in mtg and have been since 96..... Yu-Gi-Oh is the most violent game ever made as for seer knockout speed....and it's not even close.
Cimo: "This is a very cool card"
The card: only stun decks use this card.
To be clear for those who don't know, LSV is not only one of the best MTG Pros.. he's also a game designer on various games (Eternal, Storybook Brawl).
Yeah, he's pretty good at card evaluation.
Luis didn't understand at first that pank could tribute itself
Having not had a particularly good idea of who LSV was, I've come to one conclusion based on his analysis in this video. There's a very good reason he's a multi-time champion. His ability to break down and analyze these cards, even even extrapolate the metas, was extremely impressive. Top comment says he's better than most Yugioh players, and that's 100% right. LSV knows his stuff, that's beyond a doubt.
I would compare Maxx C to Rhystic Study
...if it was 0 mana and can be used instant speed
Remora is a better comparison just because you basically start the game with it turn 1
@@prosamis i disagree, the feeling of "are you going to pay the one" constantly on your mind after it comes down where you literally need to decide "do I play my turn how I want or do I stop them from getting cards". I don't think the turn 1 comparison is apt because yugioh starts in what would be considered the late game of magic.
@@matthewpopow6647 "yugioh starts in what would be considered late game magic" doesn't translate well. Cards like forceful sentry would then be considered bad because hand disruption lategame is far less effective than early game
But I get what you're saying. I just think mystic remora is a perfectly valid point of comparison
@@matthewpopow6647 The difference is that Rhystic Study is a persistent effect meant to slowly generate advantage over time by taxing your opponents, and is only really good enough at that in slower-paced multiplayer Commander games. Mystic Remora is more similar because it's cheap enough to be played on turn one and adds a much higher tax that makes it harder to play around, so as a result it sees the most play in faster-paced formats where people slam it down not intending to bother to pay the upkeep cost but just to force their opponent to either skip their turn or let them draw a bunch of cards. That seems like much better comparison in play pattern to me, compared to a permanent effect that slows down the game over a long period unless it's removed.
Nah Rhystic is nowhere near as powerful. It's only good in Commander where you have a 3:1 opponents ratio. In regular magic, Rhystic plays similarly to tax effects (thalia, sphere of resistance etc.) but is strictly worse because the opponent gets to choose the outcome (and you're essentially skipping your t3 which puts you behind too much in tempo)
A lot of people in the comments and cimo seem surprised (which is great!) that LSV can analyze theses cards accurately but I dont think the yugioh people, who dont know how LSV is, and cimo have absolutely NO IDEA who they have infront of them. What a great collab ive been waiting for LSV to show up on one of these things. Also dont forget; a lot of the terms that yu gi oh uses come from magic like Instant speed, counter, and such
The fact that battlecruiser is a term in both games but has, I think(?), opposite meanings is very fun.
Cimo and LSV?? This is the crossover I've been waiting for.
Without playing the game he is already looking at how this card could interact with other cards of a similar type and how it can be used. I’m more impressed with his analysis than his ability to guess if the card was banned.
When you have a game of MTG that for most people is a very RNG based game - what you draw, do you play first, do you have lands whatever, and then you have someone like LSV who is consistently for years and years, it just hits how good he is and how most people playing magic have no idea how to play it. Absolute legend.
For me Baazar of Baghdag is actually more analogous to Graceful Charity than Gitaxian Probe, is a Land so you don't need top pay mana to use it so it's "free" and also the effect is the inverse draw 2 and discard 3, and is also super broken.
Frantic Search is the most like Graceful Charity.
Not really, because Graceful Charity is still neutral in card advantage. If it were legal, it would be played in every deck, regardless of how they interact with the graveyard. In that respect, Ancestral Recall and Gitaxian Probe are much better comparisons, because they’re both played in most decks in the format they’re legal in. Meanwhile, Bazaar is a -2 (in theory, although in actuality you’re still getting Rootwallas and Vengevines into play) and is only played in its own archetype. Frantic Search is also not a great comparison because while you don’t lose mana for playing it, it does require three mana upfront to cast. It’s also -1 in card advantage as opposed to neutral.
Bazaar is much much weaker. The cost of Bazaar is your land drop for the turn - that's why it only sees play in gy-centric decks like dredge where it functions as part of a combo. Bazaar is a build-around only - it's unplayable in 99% of decks, worse than a basic land whereas Graceful Charity would be included max copies into literally every deck in existence.
it seems like it’s basically just 0 mana brainstorm
Baazar was bad for years it needed dredge to be good.
Maxx “C” is essentially a Rhystic Study that doesn’t ask you to pay the 1 lol. You play a spell, I draw a card.
The TRUE Maxx c challenge...
Can I special summon enough times to make you deck out this turn?
He would lowkey win a yugioh match against Rarran
Oh he would obliterate rarran after one match to get mechanics down
he'd probably win against actual yugioh players if you game him 2 days of prep
Cimo, you got LSV and that is impressive enough! I watch all his stuff and he has never done anything like this. What impresses me more is how well you do these. I watch all of the [catd game] vs [card game] content and your's is incredibly well done. I can tell you put a lot of thought and planning into each video and it definitely pays off! Keep doing you and being excellent!
Also there was this period of like 4 day that Makyura with its original effect was actually legal because Konami hadn't updated his effect on the official database (erratas aren't official until they are updated there) so people were labing how to brake the carde before the update, but sadly it was updated before any meaningful event so we couldn't see it's glory but i'm sure some guy somwhere won a local with Makyura FTK on those few day the card was legal.
Surprised LSV didn’t mention Faithless Looting when looking at Graceful Charity.
Cimo : "Have you got MTG card that breaks a bit the 4rth wall like Victory Dragon?"
Me: "I think Cimo has no idea what Sharazad is."
Ty for doing this LSV. Great analysis.
Soo just to clarify Equip Spells are more like the Aura Subtype of Enchantments in Magic; Artifacts are different and lack a clear analogue.
For anyone curious the main difference is just that Artifacts tend to have activated abilities(which may involve them tapping) while Enchantments rarely do and never any that involve tapping. Equipment is then a subtype of Artifact where the activated ability allows them to be Equipped to a creature, which usually has an extra cost but the benefit is they don't get destroyed when the Creature leaves play, unlike Enchantment Aura's.
I love these happen enough now that we know what info to frontload better
I'd say to be a bit more fair to him, should've rephrased the question to whether the cards were "ever" banned in the history of the game
Wow, he is absolutely incredible. If he played for like 2 weeks he would know more than me and I have play for years lol
The thing yugioh players need to understand is that cimo got a top 5 all time player to do this, not just your average magic pro.
34:04 It's interesting he brings this up, because there's several cards in YGO exactly like the one he's describing. Of note, there's Macro Cosmos, which while it's on the field, banishes anything that would have went to the GY. At the time that Vanity's Emptiness was legal that combo didn't see much top-tier experimentation since none of the best decks could play around their own Macro Cosmos, but it is definitely a theoretical two-card combo that we were cognizant of at the time, and you would be very likely to see it at a local tournament in certain rogue strategies.
For next time, I feel you should start with, outside of the description of magic trap monsters etc, "each game generally concludes in 2-3 turns". I think that will really help with the evaluation of traps.
The interesting Thing about Gold Sarcophagus is, you can banish any Card, and then bring it back whit a bunch of other Cards, like Leviair. So there is some crazy Combo Potencial there. Also it was pretty good in old YGO, just getting whatever you want.
LSV not only a pro. Hall of famer. Truly one of the goats of card games
Oh man you are just such a great host. Excellent explanation (I am not a Yu-Gi-Oh player) and not trying to troll or mislead someone.
I mean I feel like even for MTG most of these are freebies, but listening to a literal legend go through the thought process for each card is fascinating. I’m experienced in both games and I’m living for these videos.
"Let's start off with something easy." *proceeds to reveal Sangan*
27:55 there is a card that can banish 5 cards. In your opponents or your own graveyard.
Soul release.
Regarding Victory Dragon: There's an urban legend in MTG about how, at a tournament, a player had a card that said "Target player loses the game" (of which there are several in MTG with various conditions), and instead of targeting his opponent he targeted someone playing at a different table. Imagine if the judges actually let something like that happen
It's interesting what comparisons LSV draws - when I see graceful charity, I think brainstorm or faithless looting. When I see Maxx "C", I think veil of summer (especially after him asking the chain rule)
It’s genuinely amazing his level of insight. Immediately knows what type of effects are inherently broken in card games. I play Magic, HS, and others- went to worlds for Pokemon- and I really try hard to have this level of insight, but holy moly he smokes everyone. This is a true Magic pro, but not just that- he is a CARD GAME master. Fundamental knowledge of all the levels of strength. Awesome.
Should have mentioned that sometimes the Maxx C challenge is also trying to deck out your opponent through special summons
For those of you not in the loop with Magic, there are a couple of players who are considered the best of the best.
LSV, who is featured in the video for his championship plays, analysis of the game, and general community contributions.
Reid Duke, the man with the Best Hair in Magic, multi-pro-tour winning titles, and Mid-game juggernaut. (Honestly #1 with some debate.)
And... really there's a couple of people you could put here at #3. Brian Kibler comes to mind, though he's moved on to many other card games and now works on his own game.
"mine looks obnoxious"
Alex wheezing in trauma😂
LSV was really good on the analysis, I'd love to see another episode of this where some extra deck mechanics could come into play
LSV is definitely playing a Bloomburrow draft while doing this video, you can hear the music coming thru his mic 😂
18:52 another thing it doesn't stop are the activation of Spell/Trap *_effects_* which are distinct from card activations. In Magic terms, it only counters casting, but not using abilities.