Magic: The Gathering Pro Rates INSANE Yu-Gi-Oh! Cards! ft. @LSVargas
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16:50 "as a designer, you stay away from making your players do math on the fly"
Linear Equation Cannon coming soon for evaluation
synchro is my least favorite extra deck summoning exactly because of grade school math requirement. I get that eventually you skip the math and just remember the combos but link and xyz are way easier to process. Pendulum is freaking algebra so let's not go over there
This was my immediate thought so glad someone else commented this. Honestly was waiting for Cimo to pull it up mid video as a joke.
@@jamesaditya5254what do you mean pendulum is algebra? I feel like you have the same confusion I did. When I first got back into Yu-Gi-Oh I was really confused by pendulum cards because I thought you had to do something special with the numbers like subtract one from the other but it's literally just the range of levels you can summon. Like if you have a pendulum card with pendulum scale 2 and a card with scale 8 then you can summon any cards whose levels are between level 2 and level 8. It's not 8-2 or anything fancy, it's literally just a range you can summon and you can summon as many cards between that range to the field as you want from your hand, and 1 from the extra deck to put in your extra monster zone since pendulum monsters who die go to extra deck instead of grave.
@@Pepesmall I mean it's basic algebra but algebra nonetheless. Going by your example if X is the group of levels you could pend this turn, 2 < X < 8. I have 0 issues with pendulum nowadays I just rather not discuss it when it involves non-Yugioh card players because it becomes a real hassle especially with how it enters the extra deck face up by default, but can still enters the GY in some cases. There's too many footnotes to the mechanic, it becomes how good you are at mental gymnastics and not card game assessment
@@jamesaditya5254 I should specify that when you have a pendulum scale between 2 and 8, you can only summon monsters of level in between those numbers, not equal to those numbers, so it would be levels 3-7 you can summon. For instance if you have 2 cards with pendulum scale 5, you can't summon monsters with level 5, you would need a pendulum monster with a scale of 4 and one in the other spot with a scale of 6. So there's no algebra involved, you don't need to add or subtract the pendulum scales or anything fancy it just gives you the range of levels that you can summon with a low number and a high number. And any pendulum card, even though it has the pendulum scale listed on both sides of the card, it's always the same number, it only has one value. That was what confused me about it originally, because duel links didn't explain it great and I thought you had to subtract the left numbers on each card and add the rights together or something like that, but there is no math involved. and they can be used in either spot, it doesn't matter if you use a card with scale 5 as the high or low number, it just depends on what the other card you put down is. So if you have a 5 in one scale and you put a 2 in the other, you can summon any monsters with levels 3-4 to the field, but if your scale 2 card gets destroyed and you put a scale 9 in its place while you still have the scale 5, now instead you can summon monsters level 6-8 instead. This is why I never understood why pendulum monsters aren't used more because they let you just summon tons of monsters every turn.
Most broken Yu-Gi-Oh cards:
"Does it say it can't?"
That's becoming his catchphrase for these vids
@@Radman1889 It would annoy me hearing that lol
@@Radman1889 it already is.
"Reading the card explains the card."
@@CompassRoseGaming Problem is, reading Yu-Gi-Oh cards is exhausting.
16:54 You HAVE to show him Linear Equation Cannon and Simultaneous Equation Cannons now
Was thinking exactly the same thing.
My thoughts exactly.
@@AggronOverlord_306 Make it a themed video "Yu-Gi-Oh math cards"
As a Pokemon TCG player I giggled when he said that because every single deck in the meta requires you to do math on the fly
i did not know this card existed, WHAT THE HELL IS THAT DESIGN?? xD
He's reached cards from the last 15 years, we're really cooking
I'm surprised we left GOAT at all. Him and CGB are still in baby cave man yugioh.
Based on this rate, if LSV comes back it'll be XYZ, Pendulum, then Links
@@kylepinpin3037 most likely swap Pend and Links.
Pendulum monsters are really going to be a wild ride.
Even YuGiOh players have trouble grasping what they do. Not evem the base mechanics, but how they actually play in practice is really difficult to understand.
The constant popping your own scales and cycling Face up Extra deck, abusing soft once per turn effects, on destruction effects etc.
The way they just reach critical mass to turn into combo slob.
Trying to explain that without proper context is tough.
Links can also do that, but they tend to be self contained. A Link Climb is way easier to grasp than a pendulum combo imo.
@@FafliXxFirewall combos are NOT easier to grasp than Pendulum monsters
As a long time MTG player who recently tried Yugioh because of videos like these and found it pretty fun despite the nonsense bullshit, these LSV videos are my jam. Keep up the great work and I can't wait for the next few summoning mechanics
Cimo mentioned Edison format in the video, I really recommend giving it a try. The cards are simpler and the pace of play is much more like magic, though you can still occasionally pop off and OTK people quickly. It's early synchro era so fusion and synchro are the only extra deck mechanics. Only problem is whether or not there is a community for it in your area. Online people play on duelingbook.
@afeather123 i know people like to think of modern ygo as the boogeyman for new players, but i really think any experienced magic player will be able to appreciate it. Especially if you're familiar with legacy/vintage (as proven by lsv). Edison is great and all, but the modern game is complex and beautiful and always evolving, despite its faults.
Wait till you see Pendulum. Me personally I like them but they are complicated
i just wanna say, if you interested to learn ar wanna get hooked try watch Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's, one of the best show i ever watch
I came from Yugioh first to Mtg, and after picking up Mtg years ago I couldn't play Yugioh again. Mtg is the superior game. You can like Yugioh more, but Mtg is the better game, and I don't take that lightly.
It would be really cool to have LSV evaluate an entire archetype. With his game designer mindset, I'm sure he'd love to see how yugioh designs it's archetypes to fit together into a common theme or play pattern.
I think this would be interesting to see after he learned how XYZ and Links worked.
It might also be the only way to show how pendulums actually worked, as they are the hardest to evaluate in a vacuum.
Which archetypes would you suggest for such a video?
@@Janders797 After he gets to links probably Sky Striker could be a good start in evaluating archetypes. It has quite a few cards but the game plan is pretty easy to understand so seems like a good start.
Synchros will always be my favorite extra deck mechanic. I love Fusion, XYZ and Links too, but Synchros are juat so satisfying. The white card frame also looks dope!
How do you do that link thing?
@@Byakurenfan You use the thing to do the thing
You just need monsters on the field to do it. Just use as much monsters as the link monster you want to summon has arrows (also most link have some extra condition on the type of monster required). Send the monsters required to the graveyard and summon the link monster in an extra deck zone of your choice.
My fav is Fusion cause I don't wanna count lol
Personally Fusion will always be my favorite :)
I love that LSV read Chaos Ruler and thought it was BETTER than it actually was
Quick note Yu-Gi-Oh' chain once it starts reaolving you cant interact with, but Magic's stack when any one thing on the stack resolves more things can be put on top of the start that has started resolving.
Came here to say this 😊
@@manhattanblockade8544Glad I wasn't the only one to catch that because it matters a lot
@@manhattanblockade8544 Same. Lol
@@manhattanblockade8544hee. Me too.
Also, you are able to interact with things on the "bottom" of the stack.
In yugioh you can only respond to the last thing added to the stack, where in magic you could, for example, counter the first thing added to the stack, even if you are already many effects deep.
@LSVargas:
For future Videos with such effects, keep in mind that Yugioh is the direct opposite of magic.
In Magic you can use any Effect as an Instant if it doesn't say "use it as a sorcery."
In Yugioh it's the opposite. Every effect is a sorcery if it doesn't say Quick effect (Instant).
Effects that denote a specific timing but are not triggers are also Instant speed
In general though the important thing is that Sorc Speed is the default not the exception, which is why "Ignition Priority" was such a rough thing, since it effectively made your monster's ignition effects usable at instant speed during the "Monster was summoned" window
But also, any effect is not once per turn unless stated otherwise, the same as Magic.
Which is different from some other games where the default is (soft) once.
27:00 As one who has played both MTG and Yugioh, I can easily see how LSV got this one wrong. With the fact that Yugioh's chain system works very differently than MTG's stack. Let's say your opponent has Formula Synchron and a Raiza, the Storm Monarch out. If you use, say, a Lightning Vortex, they can Synchro Summon into Star Dust Dragon; however, they won't be able to activate the Quick Effect before Lightning Vortex nukes it. In MTG, the stack works in such a way that before Vortex resolves, you would be able to synchro summon Star Dust Dragon, then before Lightning Vortex resolves, activate the ability to protect your board from its destruction effect. This makes the ability to synchro summon on opponent's turn sound stronger than it is to LSV, with his expert MTG experience and absence of Yugioh experience.
In short:
YUGIOH:
chain 1 Lightning Vortex
chain 2 synchro summon
(reverse order)
Stardust is summoned
END opponent's face-up attack position monsters are destroyed (including Stardust)
MTG:
stack 1 Lightning Vortex
stack 2 synchro summon
(reverse order)
Stardust is summoned
stack 1 (still on the stack)
stack 2 Stardust Dragon activates ability to counter a spell/ability to destroy permanents (Lightning Vortex)
stack 1 Lightning Vortex no longer able to resolve, simply goes to the graveyard
END opponent's board is unaffected by Lightning Vortex
That's my TED talk.
Stardust needs to respond to a card or effect activation, so it wouldn't be able to activate in your MTG example, or at least, wouldn't be able to stop the lightning vortex. You could use raigeki break or something after summoning it to let you get the stardust back in end phase.
Trish and blackrose better illustrate the difference, since if you could activate their on summon effects mid-chain they would be much stronger, it would basically turn formula synchron into quick effect removal.
@@AndrewCrimefighter MtG has counter effects target specific effects on the stack, rather than "the most recent effect", MtG doesn't have that kind of response limitation, so within the context of MtG, Stardust Dragon would work in that scenario, but not YGO because of both the sealing of the chain and the rules of effects negating specific effects
Yeah LSV got it wrong, but that's only because Cimoooooooo didn't explain that you couldn't add to the chain once it started resolving.
@@syrelian if the text on stardust was different then the text on stardust would be different. The text on stardust is not, however, different. Think of it like flashing in chalice of the void
@@duskbrood1 I don't think Cimo knew that you can in MtG
24:25 The big difference between the stack in Magic and chain links in Yu-Gi-Oh is what you can respond to. In Yu-Gi-Oh, effects can only be chained to the most recently activated effect, meaning you can perform chain blocks and protect important effects from being negated by activating lesser effects afterwards while you still have priority. In Magic, though, as long as the stack hasn't started resolving, anything still on the stack can be targeted. For example, say you play a spell that buffs your attacking creature, and that creature has an effect that says "Whenever you cast a spell, this creature gets stronger". In Yu-Gi-Oh, you'd only be able to respond to that creature's effect. But in Magic, even though that effect is what is allowing you to respond, you can still negate that spell's effect while it is still on the stack. If you do, the buff spell will fizzle but the creature will still buff itself with its own effect because that spell was still played.
there are some cards that technically can negate stuff from an earlier chain link, like called by the grave (Edit: I realised what you ment and you are correct, sry)
I also wanna piggy back and say in Magic, as long as it’s on the stack, you can still respond to it. Say you have a stack of 4 cards/effects, you can let the two most recent cards/effects resolve (4 and 3 for example for this), then add on to the stack again in response to the 2nd effect/card on the stack
it's probably because i only play ygo and not magic but that sounds like a nightmare to keep track of if the stack grows, does it ever get too complicated?
Another thing of Note: In Yu gi oh, once the chain starts resolving, nothing new gets added until it's finished, hence missing the timing being a situation. In Magic, the stack resolves one by one and you can interrupt it with new effects once it's started resolving.
@@faeb.9618 Yeah, it sometimes does. When it happens it is mostly caused by triggered abilities, which are more common in the modern designed cards than in the past.
Mostly the complexity is just from the stack growing too large and having too many spells/abilities to easily resolve.
"A yugioh card that just said: look at the top 2 cards put one into your hand would be way broken."
Wow, you didnt even *need* to show him pot of duality
Prosperity entered the chat
@@unaffectedbycardeffects9152 tbf it costs 3-6 extra deck cards to use, in something that doesn't play extra deck much it's crazy, but not super useable in decks that do.
2 things:
The sneakiness of going from Edison’s synchros to modern day coral dragon was crazy, loved the scheme there lol
Secondly, baronne was not just a strong card due to the value it generated, originally sure, but decks started having enough internal pluses that baronne was no longer an endboard card (as its main purpose), it was utilized as the notorious “5th summon” for plenty of decks essentially protecting your entire turn 1 from nibiru and other handtraps
I didn't like the sudden switch from OG to modern Yu-Gi-Oh.
I can really see Coral Dragon getting banned during the Edison/Tengu Era until really recent times. And it's not like Cimo didn't show broken synchros previously, but on Dark Strike Fighter it's easier to see it's just poor design and they wanted to get rid of it ASAP.
So yeah, I'm not saying I would have liked to overindulge on OG formats, but making clear that we were moving way ahead in time would have been more honest.
@@JobbazThat doesn't really matter though? LSV is evaluating the cards in basically a vaccum as he doesn't really have a grasp in how the game played in certain eras. Saying that its a more modern card maybe just alters the ban discussion but the overall evaluation of the card remains the same.
Lets focus on how he evaluates cards and not on whether he guessed correctly whether it was banned or not 😅
Holy shit his full name analogy on HOPT and SOPT were great, also I think a major reason as to why YuGiOh doesn't have very many excavate x and add 1 cards compared to magic is due to magic's resource system and 60 card decks clogging up the consistency of most of those cards
Trish was fucking insane. To quote "How to play Gemknights 101"
"You got trish'd by gemknight, reconsider your life choices"
Gotta say, LSV is my favorite in these videos. I play both mtg and yugioh and i love his explanations on why he gives his answers, very insightfull!
In regards to Coral Dragon, Ice Barrier of all decks uses it to great effect. Typically, you make this, and synch it with a bunch of tokens to make Ravenous Crocodragon. You draw 3 cards with the Crocodragon, and then draw another card with the Coral Dragon. This has the added benefit of chain blocking the Draw 3 (which makes it harder but not impossible to stop it)
This video could also have been named: "LSV slowly realizes that the Extra Deck is deeply broken."
I'm so happy the first synchro was Stardust Dragon. So iconic, love it
25:00 The important difference between the Chain in Yugioh vs. the Stack in Magic, is that in Magic, new actions can be added to the stack as the stack is in the middle of resolving, any new triggers go on the stack immediately and resolve before any older items on the stack. Versus in Yugioh, once the chain starts resolving, nothing can interrupt the chain, and any triggers will happen on a new chain after the current one resolves.
In addition to that, our counterspell type negation effects have to be used in IMMEDIATE response to their target, if you wanna negate the effect of Link 1, your counter action has to be Link 2
Or you can use one of our MANY MANY Dress Down style effect suppressions, which unlike MtG and the Stack, negate effects already on the Chain, and doesn't need to be the immediate next Link since you're just suppressing the entire card instead
@@syrelian Yes, the fact that negating a card also causes any effects originating from that card on the chain to be negated is an important difference. As far as counter spells needing to be the next item in the chain, that's more an artifact of such counters in Yu-Gi-Oh having an activating timing of "when an X is activated...negate it" as opposed to Magic being more "Target an effect that's on the stack, counter it." There are, after all, a few cards in Yu-Gi-Oh that do cancel effects further up the chain, like Tachyon Transmigration.
At 19 minute LSV asks if you can tribute the dark strike fighter in response to it being attacked by an opponent monster. One thing that could be mentionned to help him understand our game is that everything is spell speed one unless stated otherwise in yugioh. It's actually the opposite in mtg where eveything is a quick effect unless stated otherwise
45:30 around this time there is actually one misunderstanding. @LSVargas thinks the excavation also activates on resurrection. That's not true because the first effect only activates when it's Synchro summoned. THAT would be absolutely nuts. :D
Shoutout to the 5D's era of Yugioh video games, for being a great way to experience Synchro Summoning in Yugioh with a very low barrier to entry. In particular, the 2010 and 2011 Nintendo DS games ("Reverse of Arcadia" and "Over the Nexus" respectively) are games I have thoroughly enjoyed and put many, many hours into.
You should show someone Bishbaalkin sometime. For funsies.
Bothgames featured a Plant player that could whoop your ass in the early game.
@@dudono1744 Good ol' Akiza... I did actually beat her in Reverse of Arcadia, last time I started a fresh playthrough. They give you a pre-constructed Psychic deck that's definitely underpowered for that Duel, but it's just good enough to win with some luck and good choices.
God I love the DS games. Such a classic experience.
I appreciate that LSV will start off uncertain and then once he knows what types of cards get banned and what types don't within like 2 cards, he's pretty accurate from then forward at figuring out exactly whether or not a card could be problematic.
Some notes on Baronne: that “Once while face up” stipulation really matters. There are cards your opponent might play to counter your cards by flipping them face down (including a trap that does this for all your monsters, with some asterisks, but I don’t want to get bogged down on how that card specifically works since it requires an understanding of a summoning mechanic Cimo hasn’t shown yet), and if they do this but still don’t manage to fully out your Baronne, then a Baronne that used its negate already can be flipped face-up on your next turn with its negate fully restored so you can just do it again. Baronne is also still legal in Master Duel, and it is such a good and powerful generic Synchro monster that even in decks where Synchro-summoning is not the main thing I’m doing, I usually have Baronne and a very easy way to make Baronne as part of my setup combo because just starting the game off with an omni-negate and a must-answer card that can divert attention and resources away from the rest of my board is powerful.
This was a really good walkthrough on Synchro summoning. I’m glad Cimo didn’t let LSV get too bogged down on how easy it is to summon a particular Synchro because if your deck is built correctly, any Synchro you choose to run is going to be easily summonable.
Also worth reminding/informing those who don't know that back in the day Konami refused to print 4 star tuners. So to get anything that was level 8+ was difficult to do and you needed some gimmick like Cyber Dragon + normal summon a level 3 tuner.
The only level 4 tuners for a long while that were even remotely playable were Debris Dragon which could basically only be used for Stardust Dragon and Rose, Warrior of Revenge who had no restriction on her summoning but had an effect so useless she might as well have been a vanilla
Flamvell Magician was also used like this.
Flamvell Magician is my GOAT. Hyper Synchron wasn't terrible either, kinda niche but has potential.
3+5 is not that hard to place on board (Sirocco+Gale).
2+6 is pretty common (malicious+ krebons/plague spreader), even more common is 2+2+4 (double Deepsea Diva plus a lv4 or plag+ lv4+ Reborn plag).
They're usually lines where you surely need to commit more than just finding yourself with a turner or non Tuner on board. That's the main reason LV8 synchro had been very strong at that time, but never problematic.
The amount of State Tracking you have to do in Yugioh is wild...
"If this Synchro Summoned card" or the way Monster Reborn interacts with Ritual Monsters etc. in the Graveyard, where you need to know the entire history of the card is so much to have to track.
Keeping track of what is revivable is annoying yeah but "when this is synchro summoned" type effects are straightforward, in most cases it just triggers when it's "properly" summoned using the standard synchro procedure. If your deck has an exception to that you just need to know that exception exists.
Works smoother in Master Duel though.
Because in the olden day in OCG, people dump ritaul or fusion to revive it ignoreing ho they're supposed to summon
@@MrMarnel Yeah, I guess it's Ritual Summons and such that are kind of the worst to keep track of because they don't come from the Extra Deck.
Also there's permanent stat changes that don't place counters even if the stat change persists after the card causing it disappears. Monsters that were special summoned vs normal summoned. Soft once-per-turn effects that have been used without 'tapping' to track it. Hard once-per-turn effects where you just have to remember in which turn something was activated even if the card is long gone. The list goes on and on...
State tracking doesn't even describe it. You need to know EXACTLY where every single copy of each card you're playing is at all times.
Yugioh requires that you must have a valid target on activation, so if you activate a card that searches for a monster of a specific type for example, you MUST make sure that that target is in your deck. Otherwise, you could get disqualified.
Comparing Ruddy Rose Dragon and Baronne de Fleur is so interesting because frankly what they did with Ruddy Rose is what they SHOULD have done with Baronne.
ie; if Baronne's destruction effect or omni-negate was locked behind using Chevalier de Fleur or just another Fleur card as material just like how Ruddy Rose's field wipe is locked behind using Black Rose Dragon, then Baronne would not be NEARLY as oppressive. Like it would still be a pretty good card, just like Ruddy Rose, but not ridiculously overpowered. Not to mention thematics-wise, the fact that the Fleur archetype's super-boss monster doesn't actually REQUIRE any Fleur cards in any way is pretty annoying.
Like I know you brought up the issues with errata-ing, but honestly I think Baronne is a prime example of a card that could really use one.
I love the idea of archetypal monsters having generic material BUT unlock their full power when used in-archetype.
Like Baronne being a OPT target destroy normally but having the negation if summoned with Fleur materials.
Or Rhongomyniad counting only Heroic Challenger materials for its effect.
I don't even love LSV, but I love watching his podcast (Limited Resources), his drafts, and this series has been so interesting with him. I love card game design and I feel like he's the most well-spoken expert on the subject.
If this dude came to yugioh, he would make some unbelievable decks and probably change the game
Psychic End Punisher literally reads like a custom card- it can boost its attack to 7000+, be unaffected by card effects, and can pop cards on the field, as a generic level 11 synchro.
I'm surprised without playing the game that LSV could deduce that it didn't get banned. You've trained him too well 😅
I didn't play when that card was played, but it sounds kind of crazy? What can even get rid of it besides like evenly matched? I played yugioh in 2021 and still would have thought this card was banned
EDIT: Oh, nevermind, this actually is newer than that, that explains it. Typical yugioh power creep.
@@Sinzariavramax and crystal wing can, its also not immune to any continuous or lingering effects either, can also crash into it to lower your LP so its immunity is disabled too and it can be kaiju’ed so its outs is more common then you think
the real challenge is getting to those outs without the opponent realizing and formulating a counter for it if applicable and getting rid of it quickly since the longer this card remains on the field the more it gets outa hand as the atk increase effect is perm
as cimo mentioned there’s only 1 or 2 decks that can take full advantage of it since it specifically requires having less LP then opponent otherwise its typically just a big body with a target marker on it
@@Sinzari Is not that is powercrept, is that the only decks that can actually use it at whole potential aren't really taht good decks, but the thing is that a lot of decks have no answear against it even meta deks, believe me if Psychic End was level 10 it would be banned, because is ways more easy to synchro level a 10 than a level 11.
I don't think LSV really grasped the card. The only outs he's seen is solemn (which outs baronne who is still banned) and burn FTK.
@@Ms666slayer That makes sense actually
I love the dichotomy between LSV and CGB on these videos.
LSV - very analytical and understands nuances in interactions.
CGB - "EVERY CARD IS FREE" and "ADJUST THE FONT SIZE"
Not saying CGB doesn't get the mechanics, but his personality in these is very much more animated lol.
16:39 linear equation cannon has entered the chat.
When they were talking about Black Rose Dragon and Cimo said "i dont wanna get into the weeds of everything"😂😂😂
I think black rose was used in Tenpai recently because they can make their dragons unable to be responded to.
If you mean Tenpai's field spell, thats specifically FIRE Dragons being protected from opp's activated effects in MP1
"as a designer, you stay away from making your players do math"
*smiles in Linear Equation Cannon*
A difference between Chain Links and the Stack is that a chain must fully resolve before any new effect can be activated where you can add cards to the Stack mid resolution.
Xyz will always be my favorite mechanic tbh
Xyz Supremacy. Long live the Xyz Dimmension.
That is fair, though I like synchro misters more myself. But I get it
@@1inimilian567 Synchro is my second favorite, mostly because I love Dragunity
Would be interesting to see how other TCG players react to other handtraps such as Gorz or Trag which weren't super oppressive but instead supported mechanics like synchro or XYZ, and were just fairly strong cards in their own right. Hoping to also see a follow-up video on Synchros that highlights archetype specific bosses like Shi En. Great video as always!
44:00 Chaos ruler only looks at the deck when it is synchro summoned, so not when it comes back from the graveyard either by it's effect or another card's effect. But yes, it is a crazy card and one of the main reasons a deck called "Dragon Link" was so insane for about 3 continuous years (even when it was only at 1 copy).
I really like when you cover just a single summoning mechanic. Almost wish there was one about fusions but unfortunately those require more time since you have to look at the fusion spell alongside the material to get a full picture. Can't wait for xyz!
LSVargas: "There's not that many Magic cards that require you to do much multiplication."
Naya (Red/Green/White): *Exists*
I deal +2 damage, then I double my damage, then I triple my damage, then I get to place +1/1 counters, and I add +1 counters to the counters added, then I double the number added
Then I make some tokens and double the tokens made
And then I make a non-legendary copy of Mondrak, which is actually two because I doubled my tokens, so now I multiply my tokens by eight
46:20 He literally describes the effect of Ancient Gear Dark Golem as utterly broken for yugioh as a spell. Except that card is a 3000/3000 beater that searches the deck for your archeytype cards instead of drawing and has limited protection when attacking. Yugioh power creep be so strong that EVEN THAT is not good enough to make Ancient Gears top tier.
LSV is 100% my favorite guest for these videos. Would love to see an Edison game with him at some point.
Rata describing Trish as "The Yu-Gi-Oh equivalent of a WMD" lives rent-free in my head to this day.
The genex player in WotW summoning trish to ruin Rata's day is still one of my favorite yugituber moments lmao
The only difference between the chain and the stack is how it resolves.
In magic, when the stack is resolving you can continue to put things on the stack. You can let the last thing on the stack resolve, then you can put another thing on the stack. This notably allows you to beat a 'you win the game' condition, be it a card that literally or metaphorically, by comboing off on the stack.
EX1: A card that reads 'you lose the game' goes on the stack, you play an instant speed draw one. There are no more responses. The card that draws you one resolves. You draw a counterspell. You can now cast that counterspell to counter the 'you lose the game' card.
In the yugioh chain, once the chain starts resolving no further cards can be added to the chain until all cards from the chain have resolved.
This makes decks that can play entirely at instant speed (spell speed 2, or quick effect speed) much more powerful in magic than their yugioh counterparts. Especially if you have an infinite loop that can occur at instant speed. Which if you can keep restarting the loop would allow for you to combo through disruption by simply putting another trigger on the stack whenever their disruption would take effect.
This leads into cards with 'split second' which lock the stack to prevent this kind of instant speed win and clauses that negate all further activations of the effect for the rest of the turn. See Trickbind for an example. Or sudden spoiling for an example with super sweet art. Despite this, once the split second card is off the stack you may freely add effects to the stack as it resolves once again.
I think this is one of if not the best non-gameplay tcg video series ever. Insta-watch type content, can't get enough. Thanks Cimo and LSV!
I love how Vargas talked about how he likes taking smaller monster to create big and powerful ones, as that is the exact basis of Yu-Gi-Oh 5d anime and Yusei's deck is built using smaller weaker monster to create powerful ones to win.
Its really just the core of Yugioh in general, "monsters on board" is the primary resource for getting better monsters, Tributes, Fusions, Rituals, every Extra Deck type has focused on mashing little guys together for bigger Guy
YEEEEES! I love when you bring LSV
a old school prog series between LSV and CGB with Cimoo cordinating everything would be CINEMA
From the Magic side of things. That would be like a Prog series between Patrick Hoban vs Cimoo. LSV is a regular guest at MTG world championships, and CGB is a funny TH-cam guy.
@@pixelbomb97 So what you are saying that it will be peak cinema then? I definitely wanna watch that now lol
Great video. So hype for him to see XYZ, link, and then eventually (hopefully) tearlaments and snake eyes haha
38:44 Referring to hard once-per-turn as "it's like when your parents call you by your full name" is one of the funniest things I've ever heard in Yu-Gi-Oh, I love it.
It's card games on motercycles time!
People clown on 5ds, but Hyperdrive is the best theme by far
@@MeanderingSlackersome ppl might be mad at me saying this, The Accel Syncro theme is the best hardest theme in the series
CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES YUSEI!
Man to me Synchros was PEAK yugioh. Dragunity and Lavals were my favorite decks of ALL time back in the day. Miss it so much.
Seeing as Duel Terminal archetypes are getting support, I'm hopeful Dragunity is in the pipeline
The Brionac errata is the one errata i actually agree with, being able to bounce your own stuff is a massive problem in Yugioh (see Zephyros) and should never be easy to access from the extra deck, making it an once per turn effect is also a fair nerf to the card
IMO the fact that Brionac is able to bounce card-by-card was probably a design oversight and the idea was to bounce all the cards you needed to bounce all at once multiple times, being able to choose how many to discard/bounce is such a weird wording otherwise and the Brionac retrain specifically has this 1-for-1 effect
I don't think they disagree with you. They just felt like it would be better to ban Brionac and print a new card with those changes.
Tbf a lot of the problems with bouncing your own cards are the lack of HOPT on the cards you are bouncing. Bouncing Dragon Ravine as an example would be incredibly whatever if you didn't also get to use its effect again in the same turn.
man these cards youve shown really have some heartwarming memories attached to them. Debris dragon target dandelion to summon black rose dragon is so hype
LMAO LSVargas describing hard once per turns as "when your parents call you by your full name" has to be the funniest and most accurate way to differentiate hard and soft once per turns 😭
It’s really cool that we’re doing a black rose evolution.
And what's more, they integrated the effect of Stardust in a form to dust all its
After the guess on baronne de fleur, you should’ve shown him quasar to give him an idea of the power creep on an omni negate big synchro LOL
Quasar and Blazar are actually older than Baronne by my recall, they just surged to relevance when Crimson Dragon did, because making them "legitimately" was a fucking crapshoot even if decks could, due to the resource demands
@@syrelian yeah exactly, the point being with quasar you had to jump through MASSIVE hoops to summon, and baronne de fleur is like, any bystial + a lvl 4 tuner for a big boi omni negate with bonuses
12 years ago: We used 5 cards to make 1 negates.
Now: We use 1 card to make 5 negates.
This was so nostalgic to see the original Synchros. It’s funny to see how clearly broken many of them were in hindsight.
When you get to Pendulum, I would love your last card to be Supreme King Z-Arc.
Vargas is the best guest in this series he has such a good analysis and understading of card games
14:40 Black Rose literally sees play right now in Tenpai and it's one of their best Synchro options.
Stardust also still sees play, though only for ASS Dragon's tag-out effect
Oh no now Cimo will die cause he showed a monster past 2005
I don't play Yu Gi Oh but I love LSV from magic, and this series is super fun to watch.
@LSVargas: To expand on Baronne a bit and why I find it interestingly designed.
The destroy effect of Baronne is only on your turn (Not a quick like the second negate effect), which makes the card more powerful when trying to go second and break a board. Going second being typically harder than going first, this is a pretty neat balancing factor.
The negate is also only able to be used once until Baronne dies. So if you do summon this going first, and your opponent uses something from their hand during your first turn (like a hand trap), you could negate with Baronne, but now your opponent won't have to deal with the effect when they take their turn.
This is where the third effect comes into play. If you did end up expending your Baronne, either on your turn or your opponents turn, you can now put the Baronne back into the extra deck to get a card back. Sometimes decks would play specific targets to bring back off Baronne, often they just summoned something that provided immediate value, like a draw. Now that Baronne is back in your extra deck, on your turn you can summon it using the body you brought back to turn back on the second effect."
Really really powerful and used in frankly too many decks, but I've always found it very well designed.
It was probably worth noting on Chaos Ruler, that it doesn't get its first effect again when Special Summoned from the GY. As he was under that impression.
0:43 SYNCHRO WHAT?
"What summoning?"
Alex "does it say you can't?" Cimo at it again. Love these videos, and I don't even play TCGs much anymore.
I just started playing, and I love Synchro summoning. It seems the most new player friendly special summoning mechanic. Add the ability of some cards to modify levels, it feels like there's a lot of leeway. Especially with generic 1 Tuner plus 1 non-Tuner requirements.
Its that or Xyz, since they fill the exact same "do basic math with generally simple reqs" position, Xyz have Xyz Material mechanics ofc but thats not that hard
Links require spatial reasoning for lines and have some asterisks, Pends have a bunch of weird secondary rules, and some modern asterisks, and Fusions are just.... man so many of the old ones STINK
Looking forward to see him learn the basics on XYZ summoning, as that's the first extra deck mechanic that i learned when i first got into the game and still my favorite to this day.
With the way the Overlay Units work and the idea of basically powering up your monster with a rank up spell and turning into a stronger version of itself.
He brought up doing math, YOU HAVE TO SHOW HIM SIMULTANEOUS EQUATION CANNONS NOW!!!
Absolutely love these videos, especially with lsv
Synchro summoning looks really cool, makes me want to actually give ygo a try, especially those older formats
And from what I can deduce, the chain seems like it's the same sort of thing as how Legends of runeterra handles it, where the entire stack resolves at once rather than each spell at a time
But unlike in LoR, Deny would only be able to stop the most recent spell or skill on the stack, so you could protect a Slow spell, by stacking a small Fast spell on top.
@@mawillix2018 Not quite, because between activating those two spells they get a priority window to use the Deny
But that IS the idea of Chain Blocking, typically you have to make it using trigger effects though
@@syrelian Yes, but my example follows the LoR rules other than this. Slow and Fast speed spells do not really exist as-is in Yugioh.
LoR allows you to put multiple spells (facedown) on the stack before passing priority. Which is why if we restricted Deny to the most recent spell or skill on the stack, you'd be able to play a Slow spell, and protect it with a Fast spell.
You can also take back cards from the stack as long as you haven't passed priority, which lead to some of the dumbest combos like: Step 1. I put my spells on the stack. Step 2. I (without passing priority) discard my hand. Step 3. Actually, nevermind, I'm taking those spells back again, turns out I still have cards in hand, lol.
Was kind of hoping that we'd get to see LSV rate some of the wild Synchro enables that we've had historically, but this was well worth it to see LSV's, extremely accurate, ratings of Chaos Ruler, PEP, and Baronne. Here's hoping we get the final exam of all 9 Knightmare cards soon.
I wish there was a sidebar after showing Dark Strike Fighter just to show how much math this game has. Maybe we'll see Simultaneous Equation Cannons at some point
Seeing Coral Dragon was a surprise; think that's the newest card to date shown. And it's such a neat one to demonstrate what utility synchros made during a climb look like.
Baronne is
In Magic you can mess with the stack as it processes effects, where in YGO when the chain hits it's end, all effects are processed with window for interaction. This was a reality check coming from Magic to YGO.
one thing they didnt mention during chaos ruler segment is that effects of that sort are esspecially broken in yugioh not only becus the card that gets you a card is free, not only is the cards you add to hand are free BUT the cards in the grave are also free. magic has grave effects too but those also have some sort of cost to play from grave. even if its as small as exiling other stuff from grave. that is still a cost
tbh in eternal mtg formats the best grave effects are free too, thats why theres manaless dredge decks or bazaar of baghdad decks, theyre just really careful about making more of them in newer sets
@@uS0ra all i know is the discard 2 draw 2 red card that activates again from grave is banned
@RaineBans Faithless Looting is legal in eternal formats like Vintage, Legacy, or Commander. (It's even legal in pauper because it is common.)
@@RaineBans there's a few cards in MTG that activate when they're milled from deck and some creatures that come back from grave based on conditions like if you've gained 3 life or if another creature entered this turn or something that don't cost any mana really
@@uS0ra ok cool but for us the condition is not drawing the card you wanna add from deck with your grave effect
The main difference between the stack and the chain is that when the stack starts resolving, you can put cards back onto it. In yugioh, no new effects can be added on to the chain when it starts resolving.
This gave me nostalgia for the 1 week I played turbo trishula when I was 15. Good times
You listed some synchros I even ran in my Exodia deck (in the treasure panda variant) for their card draws.
T.G. Hyper Librarian, Formula Synchron, and Coral Dragon.
My combo included having T.G. hyper Librarian on the board, than putting together exodia limbs and flamvell guards into cards like Formula Synchron, and Cyberse Integrator. heck, even those 2 could go into T.G. Hyper Librarian if I have to do it that way. (Cybers Integrator lets me draw a card when I use it as synchro material, hence why I used it)
Other great draw-related synchros I had in the deck included Stardust Charge Warrior (draw 1 on summon), Ravenous Crocodragon (usually just a draw 1 on summon, sometimes a draw more)
In case the deck didn't manage to bring out Exodia, it had access to cards like Clear Wing Synchro Dragon, Satellite Warrior, Baronne de Fleur, Chengying(swordsoul boss that isn't restricted to wyrms as material)
The extra deck also included some links, like Link Spider in case I draw into an exodia limb, Aussa and Dharc in case my opponent uses Maxx C or something dark as handtraps, and I need more materials, Seleene for a link 4 climb, and Accesscode as my Link 4. It was a pretty fun deck to play, but relied terribly on drawing Treasure Panda. Even with the draw power I had, and the 2 double summons, more often than not, I had to use Ayers Rock Sunrise or Monster Reborn after getting Treasure Panda in the graveyard to get it into play.
I also loved baronne due to being a wind monster. Perfect fit for my Speedroids.
TLDR: I used synchros in all my decks that could use them. Even flippin' Exodia.
I like the reasonings LSV gave and He seems to be understanding our game quite well. I think it would have been a little more interesting tho to show him or make him guess certain broken tuners as well like jet synchron and bulb.
4:22 do yall remember when people hated on synchros like they make no sense like dude tuner + no tuner = synchro level but we’re yugioh players we don’t read or do math 😂😂😂
Xyz got the same treatment 💀
Like, combine these two+ cards for new card, use those cards as fuel for new card
Classic case of people resisting change. It was quite the transformation after so much time, so it's not that surprising.
If i remember correctly, the only difference YGO chains have to magic's stacks is that chains do not give any player the opportunity to interact with them once they start resolving, while in magic you can add cards to the stack after a part of it resolves.
One other important difference is that you can't target effects earlier in a chain, so if your opponent counters your summon and you counter their counter, they can't activate another card that would counter the summon (they could only counter your counter). It also means if multiple abilities trigger at the same time you can put the least important one on the chain last to block your opponent from interacting with the more important ones.
We gotta show LSV Pendulums at some stage. Id love to see his reaction from starung down the wall of text on Endymion.
I really wish that you showed him Cosmic blazar or Quasar or a card like super red nova dragon or shooting star dragon tbh, and Baronne's effect can be used during either player's standby phase which makes it so much better. You could even pair it with artifact scythe and things like that for that reason. But I also get that you want to keep it as simple as possible.
“Does it say it can’t?” Seems like a good T-Shirt
59:58 Amazing quote regarding Barron and similar cards
I love seeing those classic synchro monsters
Cimo, You should show the other tcg players a clip in which Jaiden and Zane blow each other up in the anime... that time when limit removal+power bond into battle fusion into battle fusion. It just nails the feeling.
I feel like the best way to compare making people discard cards in yu gi oh vs mtg is if games only lasted 2 turns regularly and thoughtseize could hit lands randomly. You’d have games where your only land gets hit at random.
See, showing them the later extra deck summoning mechanics does make it a bit easier to understand things for the game.
I find it very entertaining and ironic that you chose to explain tuner monsters with a resonator and then immediately show stardust dragon as the syncro payoff.
Thats like explaining fusion summoning by showing blue eyes ultimate dragon immediately after dark magician
Vague clarifications on the differences between magic and yugioh, in regards to the stack and chain, cause Cimo isn't experienced enough in magic to explain the nuance
They both start the same, with cards being added on top of the pile, but the main difference is the Chain cannot be interacted with once it starts resolving, but the Stack opens people to responding and adding more to the stack when each layer resolves
To put it differently, the Stack can always be interacted with, and you can replace cards on it as you counter and interact with the board state, and if something for example dies halfway through the stack, you can use the on death ability as soon as it comes out
But the Chain will always finish resolving all the way the moment one thing resolves, and any effects that trigger have to wait for the chance for a new chain to start
It's a pretty specific nuance, but is something to keep in mind, especially for counter traps and cards that cannot be responded to, because they force the chain to resolve fully whereas the stack can just keep getting added to once the split second card resolves
Synchro summoning is probably my favorite mechanic in Yugioh. I love nonlinear deck building, and synchros give a lot of room for on-the-fly gameplay due to the level requirements and needing to use what you have already in hand, which won't always be optimal. Fusions and XYZs are too rigid to have the same satisfaction for me.
funny story about dark strike fighter. when there was still a local game store that did yugioh in my area, my cousin lost to dark strike fighter because his opponent said it did 2000 times the level making it an instantaneous otk.
Reading cards as a yu gi oh player is hard.
@@MrDeflador it didn't help that we were just kids at that time
Since the first time I saw black rose in the anime it has been my favorite yugioh monster of all time. I will forever love that card and I am happy you showed it off.
Ngl, Black Rose Dragon looks huggable (also it's still a very strong level 7 option)
9:25 Absolutely devious bait and switch from Cimo here lol
Chain vs Stack difference (that actually matter). The stack in MTG can be constantly added to, it can resolve the last 2 effects and then you can add more effects to it, and constantly resolve and add on one giant stack. With the chain in ygo though its static, you build the chain and once the chain is built and no more is added it then resolves with no mid-chain additions.