I'm on the spectrum and Kamille's behaviour fits like a glove. I see in him both a ton of what I suffer from and what other people like me with Type 1 autism suffer from, even a lot of the stuff you feel goes against the reading. Even discounting the part of the show where he literally says he's autistic, It's a very easy reading to make, and I don't think that reading really detracts from his character or is a cop-out.
Yeah on the one hand if people with autism identify with Kamille I don't want to block that. It's just annoying as an excuse people use for disliking him. The other thing is I'm not sure Kamille actually says literally "I'm autistic". That translation uses jiheishou(自閉症), which in modern Japanese is yeah used to mean "autism", but at the time of the 1980's the term wasn't as rock solid, it could also be used to mean social maladjusted. But that is also not really the best context. Emma is giving him shit for being so moody and he says he is a good pilot, but she says he needs to grow up and not be so moody and that he would get killed if they indulge his behaviour. THAT is when he says the line, so he is saying it very sarcastically, the meaning is closer to "Well I just have behaviour issues so why don't (you adults) tolerate that." This was something I found out but decided not to go into as I didn't really relate and was desperate to try and keep this one under 3 hours(I failed).
@@argonbolt yeah there are some interviews with Tomino I've seen (though it has been a while so I might be misremembering things) where he talked about how Kamille was supposed to be autistic, but in a way that reveals something that can be found out by other means, which is that at the time in Japan, autism and social maladjustment were considered more or less synonymous. In that interview he talks about Kamille getting over his autism in the same sense someone might overcome depression. God I hope I'm not just imagining this interview, but I swear I remember reading it. I need to track it down again. I'll try to get back with a proper source. Authorial intent or not, I don't think it reduces the potential for the reading if you take the work by itself.
I think the thing I maybe find a bit annoying about that personally is just the fact Kamille is already like, a Newtype, so it gets a little weird in so far as like taking Tomino's word that somehow autism>newtype sensory perception. Like if i was a series writer I could just constantly fall back on "Well Kamille has done something weird, is it angry youth, autism or newtype abilities? Or is it angry youth with autism, angry youth with newtype abilities, or angry autistic youth with newtype abilities?". It is like the perfect cop-out. Hence why another reason I didn't go into it in the video and instead felt better focusing on Kamille's arc as a character instead of thinking in circles of what Tomino and the other writers were trying to do. Ultimately they wrote Kamille as a person with big hangups from his parents and world being the way they were, who learns to overcome them, learns to embrace the idea of a better future and that felt more important to convey in the video then 10 minutes of worrying about the exact specifics of Kamille's mental conditions.
@@argonbolt Yeah, that's fair, the arc comes first, especially for the sake of the video. And while I can't comment on newtype abilities, from personal experience regarding the angry youth/autistic part, it's always both simultaneously and they can't really be meaningfully untangled or categorised, at least not in a way you could describe in a video.
It's a shame this type of discourse didn't exist in the early 2000's so we didn't have a literal Great Wall of misinformation gleefully repeated as "trivia" which permeated into the overall perception of such series.
Idk if youve noticed but everyone in the AEUG wears federation uniforms. They never really explain it and everyone treats them like fringe terrorists but I'm pretty sure they're just a faction within the federal government
@@HamburgerMaguireexcept their not. Hello they held a federation assembly hostage at gunpoint with mobile suits as well. Stealing federation property. List goes on. I adore the AEUG but the group whose alternate name is anti earth government being a fringe within the federation? after the 30 bunch colony protest gassing what was a fringe faction militarized against the federation. The vibe I always got was wear what you wanna wear within the AEUG hence the sleeveless green jump suits and also just keeping the federation uniform.
I recently re-watched Zeta myself, and at least in Zeta, I really don’t think there was one. He’s more a force of nature than a developed character. Even the line that led to that idiotic meme about “violating” people was only said in A New Translation, not the main show.
I'm nearly halfway through this but I can't help but nortice that you put "her tragedy" of all things as background music for Kamille's section, lmao. It's a pretty cool essay so far, finished watching Zeta recently and I really think it deserves a rewatch considering how complex it is.
This is a magnificent video, that goes to great lengths to analyze the story and put it into a proper historical context. If anything I would like to add to it with two details or ideas that come to mind: 2:56:46 I read online in several places that Reccoa's last dialogue with Emma had a translation error that worked as a surprise twist to explain her erratic behavior. Supposedly, she implies she was either molested or raped, which, in insight would explain her emotional instability and volatility, as her emotions are simply unchecked, having her get into dangerous situations (As she herself points out many times) without a care for her own safety or well being. It would also explain why she seeks relationships with unavailable or manipulative men that she could later recoil from or justify as a "seduction" of some sort; and probably with enough time, she might just have dumped Scirocco for another guy on a whim (Note that even Scirocco pointed out that she was NOT a newtype, and he didn't manipulate her feelings at any point with his abilities). It doesn't justify her terrible decisions, but would explain WHY she takes those terrible decisions and then proceeds to regret them deeply. It could very well be that it is a coping mechanism she developed to avoid dealing with her trauma of the unspecified event. But again, said theory depends of actually knowing Japanese and being familiar with Japanese euphemisms to determine if it was indeed a mistranslated, or rather that she was just terribly written. Secondly, Kamille might have a strong will, but there is only so much a strong will can take before it falls into despair or is severely traumatized, and I think there are hints of Kamille's impending fate as the series closes. There is a very short but (I believe) important scene just before Kamille faces off against Scirocco: Just as he goes to meet Fa one last time, he very non-nonchalantly opens up his helmet WHILE in space and it takes Fa's quick reaction to this to save him from certain death at the vacuum of space. He doesn't even blink at this, clearly showing the battles and deaths around him have dealt a huge blow to his mental and spiritual health. Hes clearly distraught and non-reactive to a certain degree, simply focusing on his anger against Scirocco, who he perceives is mostly to blame for all the death surrounding him. Its really quite tragic, seeing how his lack of emotional control lead him to fight Scirocco filled with hatred and anger, only for Scirocco to exploit this to finally strain his mind and soul before dying.
2:06:03 I'm absolutely thrilled to see that other people feel the same way as me. And the way that you're talking really helps sell the points that char is making in his speech and his ideologies as a whole. I'm glad tomino introduce these ideas into Gundam as early as 079, but expanded upon them so much further in zeta. This to me is what makes zeta one of the best works in fiction of all time.
Gundam is my favorite brazilian representation in anime - like, the Federation literaly uses our flag and there is character named Carioca (which is what people from Rio de Janeiro are called).
First of your videos I’ve watched, 40+ minutes in. Everything so far has been so well done and been well informed, and the humour is additive in a way that is sadly uncommon. I am really enjoying this.
dude you are incredible I am seriously gaining a totally new appreciation for this franchise through your vids. well done on the wider theoretical aspects of your essay as well
Ok but I agree and disagree with your assessment of Reccoa. I liked her a lot when she was AEUG and as a spy she seemed to sort of have her own skillset and she became one of my favourite characters because she had her own motivations. But then fucking Sirocco came and ruined all of that. But in the final conflict, there is some sort of allusion to her having been 'disgraced' (japanese colloquial way of referring to S/A) by male soldiers in the past which is why she is so bent on the men/women thing. So I really cannot say I have any idea how a woman who has been the victim of such a horrible crime may rationalize that dichotomy, and I can't pretend to, so I cut her a bit of slack. I am thoroughly disappointed with her character arc but I feel like they may have been subtly trying to include what impact the binary gender paradigm, despite allowing women to become pilots and serve as soldiers, still ultimately has.
or, you know, maintain your reservations that she is just a terribly written character not meant to challenge your perception of women in wartime settings in ways that you, as a man, could never conceive. Ignore the whole point of the character. She didn't make me feel very good or happy either. That is the point of a tragedy.
Zeta Gundam holds a special place for me because it was the first Gundam I watched in full outside of catching Wing and 0079 on Toonami as a kid. While I regret not going into it with the full context of 0079 it really drew me in with its storytelling, fantastic ost and a great cast. I have quite the fondness for this series, definitely not without flaws but incredibly ambitious and bold as a followup to such an iconic series. Another great retrospective I really enjoyed it.
It feels surreal how good your videos are, you are absolutely tragically underrated and don't have a fraction of the views you deserve, and I really hope this doesn't deter you from making more videos. Zeta is possibly my favorite Gundam series alongside Turn-A and this was a blast to watch from start to end.
Ive been rewatching your wonderful videos on Gundam and I remember my introduction to Gundam. A school friend of mine was into anime and gundam. This was super super super rare back in 1983 ( Yea, im old ). Anyhow, he introduced me to Zeta Gundam. We both went down to little Tokyo in Los Angeles and pick up hundreds of dollars in Gundam stuff, model kits and story books and comics. I couldnt understand a thing. None of Gundam was translated at this time. I had to piece together the story through 5 volumes of an Anime Visual novel ( Im not sure what to call it. It wasnt a comic and but it used animation cells instead of comic art.). I got some right and some wrong. In the end, along with The Lord of the Rings and Akira, Gundam influenced my childhood. For that Ill always remember Zeta.
Damn, you really went there. This is surprising quality considering my initial reaction was "three hours? God damn." I think a deep dive into Hathaway's Flash is in order.
I'm interested to see what your take is. I'm five minutes in and fascinated by your thesis question. I'll say straight up zeta is the end all, be all, of anime for me. The best of gundam, and everything that follows is just trying to recapture what made zeta special. I can't wait to see your argument and what you think. Will be responding at some point for sure.
why do you only have 4k subs???? this chanel is criminaly underrated! love all your long content, it helps me get by while working, keep up the good work sir!
1:18:14 The Suits are cool but yeah they are bad people. And I think it took Gundam Unicorn to convince more people that The Earth Federation ITSELF its Bad and not 'Just that time the Titans rose to power and made everything bad'
1:35:53 When the XB-70 was mentioned I was hoping for an XG-70 , and I was not disappointed. As someone deeply brainrotted by the series to the nth degree, and given the incredible quality of video essays like these ones, I dearly and deeply hope for the day when the Muv Luv Trilogy gets the same treatment, given that there's almost no real deep analysis videos of the series out there.
I love the various mobile suit designs in Zeta and I remember all the mobile suits as I played a lot of Zeta Gundam games when I was young. Far as I'm concerned its better to go overboard than not. As for CDA I liked it. Haman naturally being the way she is just from living in Axis, or from manipulation of men I don't feel it ruins her character either way. It does do a good job of setting up how she became the leader of Zeon, so its fine.
The first video had stuck in my head ever since I devoured it. I'm only still half an hour into this one, and I'm all ears again. I feel like you're making something quintessential here. I'm maybe way too lucky to have learn about Gundam like this from you.
I honestly don’t think Zeta is sexist or any of Tomino’s works sexist especially 99% his shows are more critical over the traditional family dynamic we see in the 50s & the fact most of sexist characters like Paptimus get brutally murdered by women or in his case their ghosts I honestly find Mazinger Z (Anime) & Yamato (1974) more blatantly sexist than anything by Reccoa lol but that’s just my take anyway really loved your video keep it up!!!👍👍👍😇😇😇❤️❤️❤️
Finally commenting on one of these videos because, well, 0079 and its spinoff works were the actual extent of my firsthand experience with Gundam! My only experience with Zeta's story that wasn't related to the current Gundam Versus games was... Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam. In the grand scheme there to promote A New Translation, but in the West the only actual English dub of Zeta material during the days of SEED, which didn't even feature the original Ocean cast because of a union strike in Canada. Yeeeeeeah. For me, that game was enough to get me a very shallow understanding of Zeta--AEUG fights the Titans, they steal the Mk II, which gets replaced by the Zeta, Kamille murders his way through the Gryps Conflict and eventually Axis and Scirocco show up and Axis overtakes everybody, and it's your job in the campaign mode to change history and keep characters from dying. That's it. Of course I later found out about Jaburo being a trap for the AEUG, about Four being Kamille's first flame and Kamille hating his name as a running gag--okay that last one I already knew through watching SD Gundam in the early days of TH-cam. But this game's quite shallow retelling of Zeta as a whole meant that it frankly never held any BIG wallop moments for me like Lalah, so I just never played it that much as a kid until very, very recently--just about the same time Argon started making videos I bet. But even so, it does preserve a lot of what made Zeta special, like the soundtrack, all the varied mechanical designs (and a model viewer so you can actually appreciate them all AND the models from its predecessor Federation vs. Zeon), and a surprisingly neat combat system that, while nowhere near as slick as Encounters in Space, comes pretty close to emulating how these fights play out. It's a sequel to FvZ, it knows it, and it wore it on its sleeve as any sequel should. I still hold it as an important stepping stone towards my eventual interest in Gundam as a whole--as a kid I chose to lust after this game and SkyGunner as my big gaming aspirations instead of Battle Assault 3 or Never Ending Tomorrow, games that probably would have steered me towards the dark side of Gundam fandom in those days so I do owe Zeta that much. I remember Kamille seeming far more violent than I was willing to gravitate towards in that time. I also seem to remember wondering when the heck Puru was gonna show up because before playing I'd somehow thought Four and Puru were both major players in the story--thanks SD Gundam, you tone-defying amalgamation of... whatever you are. I never really had the wherewithal or the confidence to fairly assess Kamille as a character, which is probably why I always cemented Amuro in my head as my personal favorite Gundam protagonist. But now, the idea of Kamille, at least the initial IDEA of Kamille as this rebellious teenager who just woke up one day, chose violence and proceeded to singlehandedly dismantle an entire quasi-fascist special operations unit that I then knew began as a result of what happened in 0083 (thanks to that OVA's retcons and Encounters in Space running with it for the best ending of Cima's story), is such a neat idea for a rebel protagonist that even in comparison to the guy he seems like he would later inspire, Shinn Asuka, he comes out head and shoulders above the pale shonen imitation of his meaningful, purposeful ass-kicking. With the help of context I learned later for that serious playthrough, I laughed whenever he pasted someone Jerid loved. I smiled when I took Char and got to clean Haman's clock. I even got to appreciate the truth of Char's Dakar speech in a new light after grabbing an undergrad degree in history, even if the game never explained why he needed to give that speech in the first place. It never replaced a full viewing but it didn't have to. For me, Zeta may not have possessed any of the same gutpunches or bestowed upon me the same personal emotional cornerstones as 0079. But I knew it as a fun romp through probably the most adventure friendly Universal Century setting this side of the One Year War--even if it came at the expense of a few hundred virtual space Nazis along the way. Thanks Zeta, even if I never got to appreciate your heaviest ideas until now.
This is a year or so late but on your views on Reccoa, have you heard of the SA theory. It's long comment from reddit so I'll just copy paste it here. -U/DenkouNova: It's because Reccoa was raped, or otherwise suffered sexual violence from male soldiers. It's a part of her dying words that were lost in translation. We don't know when it happened, most likely during OYW when she was fighting against Zeon, possibly repeatedly. In Japanese there is the word "disgrace/shame/humiliation" as a common euphemism in Japanese for rape. It's the kind of word you will use to make a sex reference that kids won't understand but adults will. It's not 1985 urban slang or anything, the definition of shame as rape is actually listed in dictionaries today: 辱め【はずかしめ】(n) shame, disgrace, being raped Reccoa uses that euphemism in her dying words, at 18:04 after the end of the opening of episode 49:「エマ中尉わかってよ。男達は戦いばかりで女を道具に使うしか思いつかない…もしくは、女を辱めることしか知らないのよ…！」 "Lt. Emma, understand me. Men are so involved in their fighting, they think of women as mere tools. Sometimes even... not knowing anything other than to disgrace them!" Emma is taken aback by what Reccoa just said, and she replies「辱められたって…レコア・ロンド…」: "You were... disgraced...? Reccoa Londe...". Her reaction is serious enough that we know the "humiliation" being talked about is not about typical high school bullying. Nothing else could explain Reccoa's constant search for reliable male figures, and the deep feeling of betrayal she got from Quattro simply ignoring/rejecting her. Unfortunately the English word humiliated does not have all the facets implied by the hazukashime Reccoa uses. It would be weird to have Reccoa suddenly confide to Emma using the very rash word rape out of the blue, especially when sexual issues are not mentioned anywhere else in the series. So the word humiliated stayed in English, with all the things it implies, and also all the things it doesn't imply.
I love the transforming mobile suits in Zeta because they are wierd. I like how they're insectoid or just wierd and alien. It's really cool. I especially like the Asshimar and the Gabfly. YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE BARZAM?? That thing seriously has a massive fanbase online. Like its insane how popular it is among a certain crowd. There's an suprising quantity of 'fan art'...
I've read some of the other comments, and like a few of them, I agree that the politics really detracted from the video. I don't begrudge you having political beliefs or even believe that political beliefs in a gundam video are out of place. It just feels oddly aggressive and detracts from the video. That said, I will continue to watch your stuff as it is well researched, and I respect your passion.
This video is amazing. Good job for the top notch work. Minor gripe- when you’re talking about evolutionary physiology, you say things like “men were riskier but not by much”. You’re correct! Women and men are largely the same, but where we differ, we do greatly. It’s not that “most men are risky”, rather, it’s that “most risky humans are men”. Also, you said that the sample sizes in some studies were too small. The wonderful thing about evolutionary physiology is that studies with smaller samples extrapolate evenly with larger samples. They always add up. Using a small sample size to draw a conclusion isn’t malpractice, it’s the standard.
26:25 Omega is the last letter in the Greek alphabet. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Zeta is 6th letter
Lovely video. I’m hoping of one day putting out Gundam videos like these. Can I ask you where/how you found some of these more obscure interviews with translations?
Sorry this took me a while to notice, a lot of it was thanks to Mark Simmons wonderful translation efforts as I mention near the video start. Gundam Ultimate Mark made this series very possible.
Personally, it's been a long time since I'd watched Zeta... and this is making me want to rewatch it... But yeah. I'd forgotten how much Beltorchika kinda pushed herself onto Amuro so one-sidedly. On the other hand, I do think they'd have been good for each other if she just chillaxed and let things happen more naturally between them, but... I think that's the biggest reason why I wished she was in the movie adaptation of Char's counterattack. Bc, at least then, I would have gotten an answer one way or the other.... Oh well. Well, it didn't help she was written to be such a one note character. As for Kamille himself? On some levels, I can deeply relate to him, but other times? I... just really want to punch him. But, like you, my views are informed by my personal circumstances. In that sense, I always felt a bit more like Amuro than Kamille even though there was a LOT I could relate to. But, I dunno... All of this is bringing back a lot of past thoughts, memories, and feelings from when I was younger.... I know I bought the DVD collection for Z and watched and rewatched the shit out of it... I, unfortunately, lost said DVD collection around the time my life really started falling apart.....
another excellent video. I really like your structure of using multiple questions on certain aspects of the show, then using your answers to form a thesis that answers the big question at the start. This video's question is very interesting. As much as people argue about the UC's canon, not much think about if the sequels are necessary. I agree with your conclusion, and wonder if later videos will also approach ZZ and onward with this in mind. Also 10/10 use of No More Heroes 3's kill screen.
Y'know, it's funny watching these videos and looking back on how I first got into Gundam. For me, it was actually the compilation movies, then Gundam Wing, then G Gundam, then SEED, then Destiny... AND THEN, the original.... Yeah, 0079 was actually the LAST main gundam series I watched before 00. Oh, I did catch War in the Pocket, 0083, and Char's Counterattack all before the OG series too, but I just meant the TV series watch order.... I tried watching ZZ, but I dunno... I just.... couldn't really get into it. Iron Blooded Orphans ended up disappointing me, I didn't watch AGE, I didn't mind Unicorn, Narrative didn't really need to happen, I have ZERO desire to see 'The Witch from Mercury', I thought X was... okay, and I don't really want to watch Turn A either.... I've seen a few other media, like Igloo too.... saw the Hathaway's Flash movie, which was decent, though.... it's really only part one of the books and have mixed feelings on how it'll be adapted going forward... And yeah, I've consumed a LOT of gundam media over the decades and so... I was kinda pleasantly surprised to see the question, 'Was Zeta a necessary sequel?' Honestly, I think that's somehting only a sincere fan and objective critic would ask... Good times my friend. Keep up the solid analyses!
Seems like you only dislike Reccoa because you dont like her personality. Like it or not, people actually act like this, garbage people like this are real. Im talking from experience here, she is the character in this show that feels the most real to me
Garbage people do exist, but no my issue is not I don't like her. I don't like Basque Ohm, but I understand the motivation and position of Basque Ohm. The issue is how Reccoa's motivation is so seemingly simplistic and childish, yet her life story is that of a seasoned resistance fighter who seemingly lacks any deeper motivation beyond an adrenaline rush. Even accounting for her dead comrades, it feels like she should be jaded or disasociated not childlike or impulsive, especially for what amounts to sexist stupidity. Like I said in the video Reccoa's backstory and actions would require a kind of apolitical sociopath, but she emotes like spurned lovesick woman. Shit is wack.
@@argonbolt It seem that Reccoa last words were mistranslated. When she talks with Emma before dying she says she has been humiliated by men, and the japanese word for Humiliation is commonly used as an Euphemism for rape. it does not entirely justify how she behave in the show but it make more sense for her to behave like she does and shift toward Scirocco
@@soulsmile853 Yeah I have heard that before, but the problem is if it is 辱め (Hazukashime) it can be translated as like, shamed, humiliated, disgraced etc. It could mean she was raped, but it could also just mean she was manipulated by men and felt badly about it. As its only briefly inferred it isn't really locked in as absolutely being sexual assault and it was never mentioned as a character trait in any of the background development notes for her character. More importantly tho, if that was her justification, it still makes her look like a moron for then jumping directly into being manipulated by sirocco. If it was her biggest problem then all she did was repeat it and learned nothing.
I'm with you man I don't like most Zeta transforming suits. Stuff like Zeta transforming into a waverider to get some aerolifts make sense and is cool. But shits like the flying donut and Baun Doc... ugh
good stuff but I think you're a bit too harsh on Rosamia and sort of miss the reactions Char and Fa have to Kamille after her death. While she definitely is played as another romantic interest for Kamille she also gets him to fill the bigbrother/paternal role that the show explicitly says she's been conditioned to take advantage of despite Kamille understanding she truely isn't related. When you get the chance rewatch Rosamia's interaction with Fa and subsequent death; there's a lot more fear and regret in the the supporting characters as Kamille effectively parrots what Fa told Rosamia. In their efforts to protect Kamille they've helped damage his perception of newtypes/self post Lahlah death styled mind meld gone wrong with Haman
I wish I could’ve enjoyed Zeta as much as you have. I can see why people like it so much, but it just never resonated with me like 0079 had. I’ve recently started watching the Gundam series for the first time, and I just finished Zeta. For the beginning, I just couldn’t get into it. It’s wasn’t until around episode ten that I was hooked on Zeta like I was at the beginning of 0079. However, around episode 30 it lost me again. I remember the last few episodes quite well and a lot of the major plot points before that, but It just didn’t click with me for whatever reason. Also, I think it’s funny that the universe has essentially reset back to the end of the One Year War. All military factions and forces have been essentially wiped out, leaving just the Earth, space colonies, and remnants of Zeon lmao
Any form of media retrospective that looks at the history of production and the actual humans behind very human works, is a thumbs up from me. Good job man
Hey ArgonBolt, seeing how well put together this video is, I was wondering if you planned on uncovering the story behind Gundam SEED's production, success and influence on other anime as well as future plans of the Cosmic Era (Gundam SEED movie and possible continuation?).
Contradicting motivations and emotional beats in people? Almost like they are... three dimensional? GASP? In my anime?! Another thing for the rage in Kamille... He saw his parents die, grew up during war, is a teen... PTSD or other stress related problems? While not a kid, he's still very young and has to kill, along with being bullied first. There's a lot of potential for troubles.
1:32:30 Yeah, I also find transforming mobile suits really strange. I grew up watching Robotech, which does a good job of them, but the ones in Zeta Gundam and especially Double Zeta are way too complicated. It makes my suspension of disbelief a lot harder, especially since this is a relatively serious Gundam show. And they tend to have a human mode, and then an unrecognizable mode. Anyway, I like the doughnut one.
It's clear you do a lot of great research on the production and development of the franchise. I'd challenge you to do it without vectrering in some intersectional nonsense.
Ironic that Gundam warns about stuff, the drone attacks between Russia and Ukraine has been touched upon in Gundam Wing. Although i have been unable to find that speech by Treize Kushrenada on youtube.
Alright, I finally found the time to sit down and watch this retrospective! Zeta is definitely one of my favorite Gundam entries but it had been quite a few years since I watched it so it's been a pleasure to get this refresher along with your analysis of it. Your commentary is always witty and insightful in equal measure and that keeps the watching very fun in addition to being instructive! Also yes, fuck Reccoa! It's honestly impressive to consider that she exists in the same series as Fa or Emma, considering how opposite they are, not just in concept but also in how well-executed these concepts are.
I always thought it was so funny on my first watch of Zeta that it's so clear how much of a loser Jerid is that he keeps failing and losing subordinates and prototype suits every single time he sorties out and yet he keeps getting promoted and getting girls on his dick. So much so that Yazan lampshades his luck in an almost meta level like 10 episodes before he dies.
Yeah he is like a perfect stooge, he keeps making the same mistakes, never learns and makes them again. Kinda a great improvement of the asshole rival archetype. So much so its hard to think of another one Tomino would make quite so cathartic to see fail over and over.
just some comments about the lady rankings i always thought Beltorchika would fit right in with the girls in Mean Girls tbh i think your giving her to much credit lol Khamil is a lovable little goblin boy with mommy issuses dont take it 2hard that he only blames his mom Hamon should of been #1 she a str8 up baddie have you looked at Jared's hair??? sexy af!!!
MOBILE SUIT ZETA GUNDAM isn't the sequel to Gundam 0079. Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory is the sequel to Gundam 0079 since it takes place 3 years after the one year war, plus it also acts as a prequel to the events of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. So Zeta Gundam acts as a continuation after the events of Gundam 0083
@@DejaVuae86 no, in the real world where the fictional Gundam series is created, Zeta from 1985 is the sequel which continues the story of 0079, not 0083 Stardust Memory which came out in 1991 a full 6 years later and which does not include the main characters like Amuro or Char. In universe Operation Stardust took place in between the one year war and the gryps conflict, but that is not "a sequel" we don't call the cold war the sequel to world war II, because sequels are fictional sequences, those are subsequent historical events.
While I do agree that Reccoa was poorly handled in some areas, i wouldnt call her poorly written nessacarily. Firstly, there is the vagueness of Scirocco's influence. He is a gaslighter and manipulator, but also got the sense he has an aura of suggestion about him, as if his Newtype powers excude a sort of charismatic aura about him. Its one of the reasons I feel Yazan didnt blasy his guts out. Secondly, its stated and shown throughout the show that while they do "care" for Reccoa the crew of the Argama (and to some extent the AEUG as a whole) they often dont treat her like they do. Treating her more like a tool or object an asset for the cause. Thirdly, she openly admits to Fa to "not be like her," and that she is in fact shes a terrible person. It's openly stated IN THE show that she didnt join the rebels for "thrill seeking" but rather she became addicted to it as it was the only thing that gave her meaning in the life anymore. Lastly, an often lost in translation moment at her death is that its very heavily implied she was SAed by her former allies during the One Year War and thusly broke alot her trust in people around her and made her very socially withdrawn from the people leaving her vunerable TO manipulation and newtype mind whammies. Granted i dont think its the best writing and its very obviously written from a male perspective and is filled with sexist baggage. But i dont think its as bad as you make it out to be.
So, in Japanese culture corporal punishment is not frowned upon to the degree it is in the West. It's not uncommon for School Coaches in Japan to beat the ever loving shit out of their students without any complaints from the parents. The trope of an unruly Japanese Jock archetype getting a book thrown at him by his teacher is something that actually happens in Japan.
Zeta is good however i do not like how new types abilities are used as plot armor. And the main character can see that ok Sirroc is evil but not char, the guy literally solves everything trying to drop objects on earth lol please forgive miss spells
While there are a good many compelling points for why Zeta seems to be the darling child of many, I still do not rank among those that do. The Titans feel almost comically evil to the point where I can't take them as seriously as I'd want to, and points to Gundam's overall non-subtlety in general. Other than the obvious stinker of Reccoa's joke of a character, nobody seems to really mention Katz, and how he is equally as destructive with his presence, allowing many slipups and annoyances to happen. It's weird people hate the kids but not the other teenage character, that is too much for me to ignore for the show's shortcomings. Yeah, teens in rebellion and all that, but this gets more ridiculous later on too. Another after-effect of changing so much from the original, ironically, is that everything after Zeta from Tomino's UC catalogue just feels like Zeta, again and again to the point where Zeta could be considered the litmus test for whether or not one enjoys the UC timeline in general, for the most part. A lot of changes happen in Zeta, yes, but nothing past here feels like there is an ounce of change that feels noticeable, and while not blatantly as creatively bankrupt as Seed Destiny, this too is also just another inspiration that I feel that series has taken from UC, in a rather unflattering way. The increased presence and handling of Newtypes also becomes more in line with how Unicorn could come to the conclusions it did, with that final encounter. I understand I'm definitely in the minority when I say this, and while I do not hate UC in general, it does lead me to not get as much enjoyment as some others do in this regard. Zeta does handle wonderfully a sequel in as good of a regard as it possibly can without being too off-putting, and it is something I will give that credit for. I really wonder how ZZ answers the "is this a necessary sequel" question though.
Honestly way more gundam trails in 0079's shoes then Zeta's. Bits of Zeta are used, but nothing as much as Zeta. Even ZZ didn't really follow up Zeta despite being literally "Zeta again". As for the ZZ question, "Very very poorly" I will need to say that in much more detail very soon. As for the Titan thing, the Titans are a reactionary military force. History shows time and again they are usually some of the most repressive violent and even comically evil groups. If you want one easy good example look up the Freikorps who straight up did try a coup in Germany and would go on to form the backbone of the SS and Nazi party enforcers. Absolutely ridiculously evil to a T.
@@argonbolt Perhaps you may be right about that, but I think Zeta's influence proves to be large enough that I can't help but see the effects of it more easily, even if the original's base is likely still being used in reality. Yes, it's unlikely that the Titans weren't at least based historically, but it still feels very radical two episodes in just going from 0 to 100 in how they are very much the bad guys this time around. And how they are clearly supposed to be Zeon but worse (which also baffles me if people defend them). Just my two cents throwing around in a sea of Zeta appraisal.
Does anyone know the song which play during section one? I have looked through all the linked songs and have looked through the zeta ost and cannot find it. Sorry if it’s an obvious answer.
9:17 >EVA Will get its own video Oh...you poor man. Such a Series that has been done written and Rewritten with so many Video Essays saying something sucks, Something is great, Some saved industry, and RUINED the Industry all in one show...
A lot of my questions, speculative or confusion, have been answered by your explanation, research and speculation. Zeta laid me down as soon as it starts. Alas I found it overwhelming compares to '79, and felt like it was reasonably rushed (pacing wise) due to the density of the story they're trying to deliver. They left little time for things to settle in. After watching Zeta, I acknowledged I couldn't grasp it as well as 79 and I need to rewatch it someday. After this video, I know I'll feel more equipped when the time comes. I went ahead and watch Double Zeta after finishing your previous vid. Thought it'd be nice if I can keep 1 series ahead of your series. And if you ever planned to talk about more women there, I can't wait to listen about Elpeo Puru who I noticed is also rethreading many characters of Zeta.
IDK man. Return to monarchy sounds pretty good right now to me. The assumption that a return to monarchy is a backslide I think reflects a sort of Marxian whiggishness that history and modes of human existence progress linearly.
While it is true Marx's progression of history is pretty linear, I really fail to see what situation would make monarchy some kind of favorable alternative. Especially in the west where most of our biggest societal issues are pretty blatantly caused by a narrower and narrower group of assholes getting more and more rich/powerful, going all the way back to king town seems like a pretty big L.
I saw this mind you, as a self-conscious reactionary (used in the traditional sense of offering an alternative model to materialist liberalism that developed just prior to and in the years following the french revolution) -- de Maistre and his ilk.
@@cyphermasq7870 In that case idk dude we got plenty of decrepit conservative hierarchies which are responsible for a good number of social problems. Unless your dad works at Lockheed Martin or some such it just aint a good setup for the rest of us.
In terms of outcome, who can say for sure? What comes to mind is King Charles's ideas about ecology, among other things. Ok, so should we give that guy real power? Probably not, but let's just say that real monarchism hasn't been tried in the modern age. Nor real ecofascism, nor any conservative or reactionary ideology that takes conservationism seriously. There is in any case no proof that democracy, let alone Marxism, will solve ecological issues.
not gonna lie, autistic person here, i think almost every gundam protagonist is on the spectrum. It might be silly and projecting but man basically none of them can pick up on social cues. I know it's cuz they're all newtypes but I also think that the spectrum is broad and i'm someone who has been told often "oh but you don't seem autistic", and i feel that same kind of energy from a lot of the protags, Kamille included, Domon excluded.
1:01:31 I must insist on the fact that even though Camille Claudel from which Tomino drew inspiration was a woman "Camille" is not gendered and can as much a boy name.
@@argonbolt Credit where it's due, you had guts to respond. I won't apologize for supporting populism. Yet, vehemently disagree with you about what you call "reactionaries." Current status quo sucks and needs to go. Also, diversity is like a fart. If it has to be forced and doesn't come out naturally, it's shit. Just look at STD, Concord, Dust Born, and so many others woke flops. How much more proof is needed?
I'm on the spectrum and Kamille's behaviour fits like a glove. I see in him both a ton of what I suffer from and what other people like me with Type 1 autism suffer from, even a lot of the stuff you feel goes against the reading. Even discounting the part of the show where he literally says he's autistic, It's a very easy reading to make, and I don't think that reading really detracts from his character or is a cop-out.
Yeah on the one hand if people with autism identify with Kamille I don't want to block that. It's just annoying as an excuse people use for disliking him.
The other thing is I'm not sure Kamille actually says literally "I'm autistic". That translation uses jiheishou(自閉症), which in modern Japanese is yeah used to mean "autism", but at the time of the 1980's the term wasn't as rock solid, it could also be used to mean social maladjusted. But that is also not really the best context. Emma is giving him shit for being so moody and he says he is a good pilot, but she says he needs to grow up and not be so moody and that he would get killed if they indulge his behaviour.
THAT is when he says the line, so he is saying it very sarcastically, the meaning is closer to "Well I just have behaviour issues so why don't (you adults) tolerate that." This was something I found out but decided not to go into as I didn't really relate and was desperate to try and keep this one under 3 hours(I failed).
@@argonbolt yeah there are some interviews with Tomino I've seen (though it has been a while so I might be misremembering things) where he talked about how Kamille was supposed to be autistic, but in a way that reveals something that can be found out by other means, which is that at the time in Japan, autism and social maladjustment were considered more or less synonymous. In that interview he talks about Kamille getting over his autism in the same sense someone might overcome depression.
God I hope I'm not just imagining this interview, but I swear I remember reading it. I need to track it down again. I'll try to get back with a proper source.
Authorial intent or not, I don't think it reduces the potential for the reading if you take the work by itself.
I think the thing I maybe find a bit annoying about that personally is just the fact Kamille is already like, a Newtype, so it gets a little weird in so far as like taking Tomino's word that somehow autism>newtype sensory perception. Like if i was a series writer I could just constantly fall back on "Well Kamille has done something weird, is it angry youth, autism or newtype abilities? Or is it angry youth with autism, angry youth with newtype abilities, or angry autistic youth with newtype abilities?". It is like the perfect cop-out.
Hence why another reason I didn't go into it in the video and instead felt better focusing on Kamille's arc as a character instead of thinking in circles of what Tomino and the other writers were trying to do. Ultimately they wrote Kamille as a person with big hangups from his parents and world being the way they were, who learns to overcome them, learns to embrace the idea of a better future and that felt more important to convey in the video then 10 minutes of worrying about the exact specifics of Kamille's mental conditions.
@@argonbolt Yeah, that's fair, the arc comes first, especially for the sake of the video.
And while I can't comment on newtype abilities, from personal experience regarding the angry youth/autistic part, it's always both simultaneously and they can't really be meaningfully untangled or categorised, at least not in a way you could describe in a video.
Kamille's behaviour in the first episodes was beyond weird.
It's a shame this type of discourse didn't exist in the early 2000's so we didn't have a literal Great Wall of misinformation gleefully repeated as "trivia" which permeated into the overall perception of such series.
I wonder what is Tomino sans opinion about the internet and how it changed society.
What i found extremley strange is how Bright keeps wearing the EFSF uniform even after officially joining the AEUG.
Hot drip is hot.
He didn't abandon the federation, just left to oppose the Titans
Idk if youve noticed but everyone in the AEUG wears federation uniforms. They never really explain it and everyone treats them like fringe terrorists but I'm pretty sure they're just a faction within the federal government
@@HamburgerMaguireexcept their not. Hello they held a federation assembly hostage at gunpoint with mobile suits as well. Stealing federation property. List goes on. I adore the AEUG but the group whose alternate name is anti earth government being a fringe within the federation? after the 30 bunch colony protest gassing what was a fringe faction militarized against the federation. The vibe I always got was wear what you wanna wear within the AEUG hence the sleeveless green jump suits and also just keeping the federation uniform.
A bit disappointed there was no hour long dissection for Yazan Gable's character arc throughout the show, but great job nonetheless.
I recently re-watched Zeta myself, and at least in Zeta, I really don’t think there was one. He’s more a force of nature than a developed character. Even the line that led to that idiotic meme about “violating” people was only said in A New Translation, not the main show.
@@sw0rdf1sh2326 that's the joke.gif
I'm nearly halfway through this but I can't help but nortice that you put "her tragedy" of all things as background music for Kamille's section, lmao. It's a pretty cool essay so far, finished watching Zeta recently and I really think it deserves a rewatch considering how complex it is.
And he never even got turned into a cow, what did he really have to complain about anyways...
amazing use of No More Heroes ranking sound bits in the women section
I love suda sound design.
I was, right now, taking a bath thinking about when this video would get released... I open my computer and here it is, amazing!
I hope you enjoy it!
I love Kamille as a character the most for his lack of hesitation in escalating any conflict
he really will just ice any motherfucker who steps up on him and its interesting to see as a response to amuro
79's ost is incredible, and still makes me feel all sorts of ways, but man is zeta's ost a glowup of massive proportions
Espiaciylly the opening, toki wo koete is awesome😊
I love toki, but man, mizu no hoshi e is definitely my favorite gundam op
This is a magnificent video, that goes to great lengths to analyze the story and put it into a proper historical context. If anything I would like to add to it with two details or ideas that come to mind:
2:56:46 I read online in several places that Reccoa's last dialogue with Emma had a translation error that worked as a surprise twist to explain her erratic behavior. Supposedly, she implies she was either molested or raped, which, in insight would explain her emotional instability and volatility, as her emotions are simply unchecked, having her get into dangerous situations (As she herself points out many times) without a care for her own safety or well being. It would also explain why she seeks relationships with unavailable or manipulative men that she could later recoil from or justify as a "seduction" of some sort; and probably with enough time, she might just have dumped Scirocco for another guy on a whim (Note that even Scirocco pointed out that she was NOT a newtype, and he didn't manipulate her feelings at any point with his abilities). It doesn't justify her terrible decisions, but would explain WHY she takes those terrible decisions and then proceeds to regret them deeply. It could very well be that it is a coping mechanism she developed to avoid dealing with her trauma of the unspecified event. But again, said theory depends of actually knowing Japanese and being familiar with Japanese euphemisms to determine if it was indeed a mistranslated, or rather that she was just terribly written.
Secondly, Kamille might have a strong will, but there is only so much a strong will can take before it falls into despair or is severely traumatized, and I think there are hints of Kamille's impending fate as the series closes.
There is a very short but (I believe) important scene just before Kamille faces off against Scirocco: Just as he goes to meet Fa one last time, he very non-nonchalantly opens up his helmet WHILE in space and it takes Fa's quick reaction to this to save him from certain death at the vacuum of space. He doesn't even blink at this, clearly showing the battles and deaths around him have dealt a huge blow to his mental and spiritual health. Hes clearly distraught and non-reactive to a certain degree, simply focusing on his anger against Scirocco, who he perceives is mostly to blame for all the death surrounding him. Its really quite tragic, seeing how his lack of emotional control lead him to fight Scirocco filled with hatred and anger, only for Scirocco to exploit this to finally strain his mind and soul before dying.
2:06:03 I'm absolutely thrilled to see that other people feel the same way as me. And the way that you're talking really helps sell the points that char is making in his speech and his ideologies as a whole. I'm glad tomino introduce these ideas into Gundam as early as 079, but expanded upon them so much further in zeta. This to me is what makes zeta one of the best works in fiction of all time.
Desculpe falar em outro idioma, mas sinceramente, você é um dos melhores canais que conheço sobre gundam e mecha no geral.
como outro brasileiro, posso concordar!
Gundam is my favorite brazilian representation in anime - like, the Federation literaly uses our flag and there is character named Carioca (which is what people from Rio de Janeiro are called).
First of your videos I’ve watched, 40+ minutes in. Everything so far has been so well done and been well informed, and the humour is additive in a way that is sadly uncommon. I am really enjoying this.
dude you are incredible I am seriously gaining a totally new appreciation for this franchise through your vids. well done on the wider theoretical aspects of your essay as well
Ok but I agree and disagree with your assessment of Reccoa. I liked her a lot when she was AEUG and as a spy she seemed to sort of have her own skillset and she became one of my favourite characters because she had her own motivations. But then fucking Sirocco came and ruined all of that. But in the final conflict, there is some sort of allusion to her having been 'disgraced' (japanese colloquial way of referring to S/A) by male soldiers in the past which is why she is so bent on the men/women thing. So I really cannot say I have any idea how a woman who has been the victim of such a horrible crime may rationalize that dichotomy, and I can't pretend to, so I cut her a bit of slack. I am thoroughly disappointed with her character arc but I feel like they may have been subtly trying to include what impact the binary gender paradigm, despite allowing women to become pilots and serve as soldiers, still ultimately has.
or, you know, maintain your reservations that she is just a terribly written character not meant to challenge your perception of women in wartime settings in ways that you, as a man, could never conceive. Ignore the whole point of the character. She didn't make me feel very good or happy either. That is the point of a tragedy.
Zeta Gundam holds a special place for me because it was the first Gundam I watched in full outside of catching Wing and 0079 on Toonami as a kid. While I regret not going into it with the full context of 0079 it really drew me in with its storytelling, fantastic ost and a great cast. I have quite the fondness for this series, definitely not without flaws but incredibly ambitious and bold as a followup to such an iconic series. Another great retrospective I really enjoyed it.
very glad you enjoyed it
This video helped me fully realize why I love Zeta
Wow, thank you for this, Emma pained me when she departed, and she holds a place in my heart forever
I will have to come back to this once I've finished my rewatch of Zeta, but what a work. Looking forward to it once I'm done.
It feels surreal how good your videos are, you are absolutely tragically underrated and don't have a fraction of the views you deserve, and I really hope this doesn't deter you from making more videos. Zeta is possibly my favorite Gundam series alongside Turn-A and this was a blast to watch from start to end.
Thanks a ton, of course without great folks like yourself enjoying them I would have stopped ages ago.
You made yet another great banger bro, keep up the good work
Ive been rewatching your wonderful videos on Gundam and I remember my introduction to Gundam. A school friend of mine was into anime and gundam. This was super super super rare back in 1983 ( Yea, im old ). Anyhow, he introduced me to Zeta Gundam. We both went down to little Tokyo in Los Angeles and pick up hundreds of dollars in Gundam stuff, model kits and story books and comics. I couldnt understand a thing. None of Gundam was translated at this time. I had to piece together the story through 5 volumes of an Anime Visual novel ( Im not sure what to call it. It wasnt a comic and but it used animation cells instead of comic art.). I got some right and some wrong. In the end, along with The Lord of the Rings and Akira, Gundam influenced my childhood. For that Ill always remember Zeta.
Damn OG zeta fan, mad respect.
Damn, you really went there. This is surprising quality considering my initial reaction was "three hours? God damn." I think a deep dive into Hathaway's Flash is in order.
In due time.
Bro had me dying when he labeled Paptimus Scirocco as Camile’s Ayn Rand. 😭
All the little old types get in the way of the strong pure newtypes who are the FOUNTAINHEAD of the new EARTHSPHERE.
0079 Gundam didnt need a sequel, but its great that it got one
I'm interested to see what your take is. I'm five minutes in and fascinated by your thesis question. I'll say straight up zeta is the end all, be all, of anime for me. The best of gundam, and everything that follows is just trying to recapture what made zeta special. I can't wait to see your argument and what you think. Will be responding at some point for sure.
God I'm so glad I found your channel. Criminally underrated.
why do you only have 4k subs???? this chanel is criminaly underrated! love all your long content, it helps me get by while working, keep up the good work sir!
Camille is a name for both boys and girls in France.
1:18:14 The Suits are cool but yeah they are bad people.
And I think it took Gundam Unicorn to convince more people that The Earth Federation ITSELF its Bad and not 'Just that time the Titans rose to power and made everything bad'
1:35:53 When the XB-70 was mentioned I was hoping for an XG-70 , and I was not disappointed. As someone deeply brainrotted by the series to the nth degree, and given the incredible quality of video essays like these ones, I dearly and deeply hope for the day when the Muv Luv Trilogy gets the same treatment, given that there's almost no real deep analysis videos of the series out there.
Emma is a soldier, not some lovesick opera floozy!
I love the various mobile suit designs in Zeta and I remember all the mobile suits as I played a lot of Zeta Gundam games when I was young. Far as I'm concerned its better to go overboard than not.
As for CDA I liked it. Haman naturally being the way she is just from living in Axis, or from manipulation of men I don't feel it ruins her character either way. It does do a good job of setting up how she became the leader of Zeon, so its fine.
The first video had stuck in my head ever since I devoured it. I'm only still half an hour into this one, and I'm all ears again.
I feel like you're making something quintessential here. I'm maybe way too lucky to have learn about Gundam like this from you.
Very glad you enjoyed it!
I honestly don’t think Zeta is sexist or any of Tomino’s works sexist especially 99% his shows are more critical over the traditional family dynamic we see in the 50s & the fact most of sexist characters like Paptimus get brutally murdered by women or in his case their ghosts I honestly find Mazinger Z (Anime) & Yamato (1974) more blatantly sexist than anything by Reccoa lol but that’s just my take anyway really loved your video keep it up!!!👍👍👍😇😇😇❤️❤️❤️
Amazing works, thank you!
2:50:28 No, Star Wars didn't do it and I firmly stand on that.
Finally commenting on one of these videos because, well, 0079 and its spinoff works were the actual extent of my firsthand experience with Gundam! My only experience with Zeta's story that wasn't related to the current Gundam Versus games was... Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam. In the grand scheme there to promote A New Translation, but in the West the only actual English dub of Zeta material during the days of SEED, which didn't even feature the original Ocean cast because of a union strike in Canada. Yeeeeeeah.
For me, that game was enough to get me a very shallow understanding of Zeta--AEUG fights the Titans, they steal the Mk II, which gets replaced by the Zeta, Kamille murders his way through the Gryps Conflict and eventually Axis and Scirocco show up and Axis overtakes everybody, and it's your job in the campaign mode to change history and keep characters from dying. That's it.
Of course I later found out about Jaburo being a trap for the AEUG, about Four being Kamille's first flame and Kamille hating his name as a running gag--okay that last one I already knew through watching SD Gundam in the early days of TH-cam. But this game's quite shallow retelling of Zeta as a whole meant that it frankly never held any BIG wallop moments for me like Lalah, so I just never played it that much as a kid until very, very recently--just about the same time Argon started making videos I bet.
But even so, it does preserve a lot of what made Zeta special, like the soundtrack, all the varied mechanical designs (and a model viewer so you can actually appreciate them all AND the models from its predecessor Federation vs. Zeon), and a surprisingly neat combat system that, while nowhere near as slick as Encounters in Space, comes pretty close to emulating how these fights play out. It's a sequel to FvZ, it knows it, and it wore it on its sleeve as any sequel should. I still hold it as an important stepping stone towards my eventual interest in Gundam as a whole--as a kid I chose to lust after this game and SkyGunner as my big gaming aspirations instead of Battle Assault 3 or Never Ending Tomorrow, games that probably would have steered me towards the dark side of Gundam fandom in those days so I do owe Zeta that much.
I remember Kamille seeming far more violent than I was willing to gravitate towards in that time. I also seem to remember wondering when the heck Puru was gonna show up because before playing I'd somehow thought Four and Puru were both major players in the story--thanks SD Gundam, you tone-defying amalgamation of... whatever you are. I never really had the wherewithal or the confidence to fairly assess Kamille as a character, which is probably why I always cemented Amuro in my head as my personal favorite Gundam protagonist. But now, the idea of Kamille, at least the initial IDEA of Kamille as this rebellious teenager who just woke up one day, chose violence and proceeded to singlehandedly dismantle an entire quasi-fascist special operations unit that I then knew began as a result of what happened in 0083 (thanks to that OVA's retcons and Encounters in Space running with it for the best ending of Cima's story), is such a neat idea for a rebel protagonist that even in comparison to the guy he seems like he would later inspire, Shinn Asuka, he comes out head and shoulders above the pale shonen imitation of his meaningful, purposeful ass-kicking. With the help of context I learned later for that serious playthrough, I laughed whenever he pasted someone Jerid loved. I smiled when I took Char and got to clean Haman's clock. I even got to appreciate the truth of Char's Dakar speech in a new light after grabbing an undergrad degree in history, even if the game never explained why he needed to give that speech in the first place. It never replaced a full viewing but it didn't have to.
For me, Zeta may not have possessed any of the same gutpunches or bestowed upon me the same personal emotional cornerstones as 0079. But I knew it as a fun romp through probably the most adventure friendly Universal Century setting this side of the One Year War--even if it came at the expense of a few hundred virtual space Nazis along the way. Thanks Zeta, even if I never got to appreciate your heaviest ideas until now.
This is a year or so late but on your views on Reccoa, have you heard of the SA theory. It's long comment from reddit so I'll just copy paste it here.
-U/DenkouNova:
It's because Reccoa was raped, or otherwise suffered sexual violence from male soldiers. It's a part of her dying words that were lost in translation.
We don't know when it happened, most likely during OYW when she was fighting against Zeon, possibly repeatedly.
In Japanese there is the word "disgrace/shame/humiliation" as a common euphemism in Japanese for rape. It's the kind of word you will use to make a sex reference that kids won't understand but adults will. It's not 1985 urban slang or anything, the definition of shame as rape is actually listed in dictionaries today:
辱め【はずかしめ】(n) shame, disgrace, being raped
Reccoa uses that euphemism in her dying words, at 18:04 after the end of the opening of episode 49:「エマ中尉わかってよ。男達は戦いばかりで女を道具に使うしか思いつかない…もしくは、女を辱めることしか知らないのよ…！」
"Lt. Emma, understand me. Men are so involved in their fighting, they think of women as mere tools. Sometimes even... not knowing anything other than to disgrace them!"
Emma is taken aback by what Reccoa just said, and she replies「辱められたって…レコア・ロンド…」: "You were... disgraced...? Reccoa Londe...". Her reaction is serious enough that we know the "humiliation" being talked about is not about typical high school bullying.
Nothing else could explain Reccoa's constant search for reliable male figures, and the deep feeling of betrayal she got from Quattro simply ignoring/rejecting her. Unfortunately the English word humiliated does not have all the facets implied by the hazukashime Reccoa uses. It would be weird to have Reccoa suddenly confide to Emma using the very rash word rape out of the blue, especially when sexual issues are not mentioned anywhere else in the series. So the word humiliated stayed in English, with all the things it implies, and also all the things it doesn't imply.
I love the transforming mobile suits in Zeta because they are wierd. I like how they're insectoid or just wierd and alien. It's really cool. I especially like the Asshimar and the Gabfly.
YOU DON'T REMEMBER THE BARZAM?? That thing seriously has a massive fanbase online. Like its insane how popular it is among a certain crowd. There's an suprising quantity of 'fan art'...
Another video so great I can almost forgive Reccoa not being champette #1
I really do like Fa, mostly bc she feels more like a real person. Like, hers and Kamille's relationship do really feel human.
I've read some of the other comments, and like a few of them, I agree that the politics really detracted from the video. I don't begrudge you having political beliefs or even believe that political beliefs in a gundam video are out of place. It just feels oddly aggressive and detracts from the video. That said, I will continue to watch your stuff as it is well researched, and I respect your passion.
Shoutout to Nagano wanting to put all his effort into L-Gaim to the very end, that was a nice tid-bit.
Nagano and his curse will feature a lot in the next video as well.
i thought so too but funnily enough it turns out the rick diaz is NOT based on the rick dom
i mean, unless i guess the wiki is shitting me
This video is amazing. Good job for the top notch work. Minor gripe- when you’re talking about evolutionary physiology, you say things like “men were riskier but not by much”. You’re correct! Women and men are largely the same, but where we differ, we do greatly. It’s not that “most men are risky”, rather, it’s that “most risky humans are men”. Also, you said that the sample sizes in some studies were too small. The wonderful thing about evolutionary physiology is that studies with smaller samples extrapolate evenly with larger samples. They always add up. Using a small sample size to draw a conclusion isn’t malpractice, it’s the standard.
Wow, Bandai should list your video on their website
26:25 Omega is the last letter in the Greek alphabet. "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Zeta is 6th letter
"The second would take its name from the last letter of the >Roman
I will agree with you that the Titans and Federation suck, but then again so do the Zeon. So yeah, I'm team AEUG all the way.
Lovely video. I’m hoping of one day putting out Gundam videos like these. Can I ask you where/how you found some of these more obscure interviews with translations?
Sorry this took me a while to notice, a lot of it was thanks to Mark Simmons wonderful translation efforts as I mention near the video start. Gundam Ultimate Mark made this series very possible.
Personally, it's been a long time since I'd watched Zeta... and this is making me want to rewatch it... But yeah. I'd forgotten how much Beltorchika kinda pushed herself onto Amuro so one-sidedly.
On the other hand, I do think they'd have been good for each other if she just chillaxed and let things happen more naturally between them, but... I think that's the biggest reason why I wished she was in the movie adaptation of Char's counterattack. Bc, at least then, I would have gotten an answer one way or the other.... Oh well.
Well, it didn't help she was written to be such a one note character.
As for Kamille himself? On some levels, I can deeply relate to him, but other times?
I... just really want to punch him.
But, like you, my views are informed by my personal circumstances.
In that sense, I always felt a bit more like Amuro than Kamille even though there was a LOT I could relate to.
But, I dunno... All of this is bringing back a lot of past thoughts, memories, and feelings from when I was younger.... I know I bought the DVD collection for Z and watched and rewatched the shit out of it... I, unfortunately, lost said DVD collection around the time my life really started falling apart.....
another excellent video. I really like your structure of using multiple questions on certain aspects of the show, then using your answers to form a thesis that answers the big question at the start.
This video's question is very interesting. As much as people argue about the UC's canon, not much think about if the sequels are necessary. I agree with your conclusion, and wonder if later videos will also approach ZZ and onward with this in mind.
Also 10/10 use of No More Heroes 3's kill screen.
Very happy you enjoyed it! You are right the sequel question will be pretty central to ZZ's video and yeah Suda51 audio visual design is my cocaine.
Y'know, it's funny watching these videos and looking back on how I first got into Gundam.
For me, it was actually the compilation movies, then Gundam Wing, then G Gundam, then SEED, then Destiny... AND THEN, the original....
Yeah, 0079 was actually the LAST main gundam series I watched before 00.
Oh, I did catch War in the Pocket, 0083, and Char's Counterattack all before the OG series too, but I just meant the TV series watch order....
I tried watching ZZ, but I dunno... I just.... couldn't really get into it.
Iron Blooded Orphans ended up disappointing me, I didn't watch AGE, I didn't mind Unicorn, Narrative didn't really need to happen, I have ZERO desire to see 'The Witch from Mercury', I thought X was... okay, and I don't really want to watch Turn A either....
I've seen a few other media, like Igloo too.... saw the Hathaway's Flash movie, which was decent, though.... it's really only part one of the books and have mixed feelings on how it'll be adapted going forward...
And yeah, I've consumed a LOT of gundam media over the decades and so... I was kinda pleasantly surprised to see the question, 'Was Zeta a necessary sequel?'
Honestly, I think that's somehting only a sincere fan and objective critic would ask...
Good times my friend. Keep up the solid analyses!
Seems like you only dislike Reccoa because you dont like her personality. Like it or not, people actually act like this, garbage people like this are real. Im talking from experience here, she is the character in this show that feels the most real to me
Garbage people do exist, but no my issue is not I don't like her. I don't like Basque Ohm, but I understand the motivation and position of Basque Ohm. The issue is how Reccoa's motivation is so seemingly simplistic and childish, yet her life story is that of a seasoned resistance fighter who seemingly lacks any deeper motivation beyond an adrenaline rush. Even accounting for her dead comrades, it feels like she should be jaded or disasociated not childlike or impulsive, especially for what amounts to sexist stupidity. Like I said in the video Reccoa's backstory and actions would require a kind of apolitical sociopath, but she emotes like spurned lovesick woman. Shit is wack.
@@argonbolt It seem that Reccoa last words were mistranslated. When she talks with Emma before dying she says she has been humiliated by men, and the japanese word for Humiliation is commonly used as an Euphemism for rape. it does not entirely justify how she behave in the show but it make more sense for her to behave like she does and shift toward Scirocco
@@soulsmile853 Yeah I have heard that before, but the problem is if it is 辱め (Hazukashime) it can be translated as like, shamed, humiliated, disgraced etc. It could mean she was raped, but it could also just mean she was manipulated by men and felt badly about it. As its only briefly inferred it isn't really locked in as absolutely being sexual assault and it was never mentioned as a character trait in any of the background development notes for her character.
More importantly tho, if that was her justification, it still makes her look like a moron for then jumping directly into being manipulated by sirocco. If it was her biggest problem then all she did was repeat it and learned nothing.
Reccoa in one of the most interesting characters in Zeta Gundam. People totally miss the reasons for her behaviour.
@@juresaiyanYoure not intelligent enough to understand the points made.
I'm with you man I don't like most Zeta transforming suits. Stuff like Zeta transforming into a waverider to get some aerolifts make sense and is cool. But shits like the flying donut and Baun Doc... ugh
good stuff but I think you're a bit too harsh on Rosamia and sort of miss the reactions Char and Fa have to Kamille after her death. While she definitely is played as another romantic interest for Kamille she also gets him to fill the bigbrother/paternal role that the show explicitly says she's been conditioned to take advantage of despite Kamille understanding she truely isn't related. When you get the chance rewatch Rosamia's interaction with Fa and subsequent death; there's a lot more fear and regret in the the supporting characters as Kamille effectively parrots what Fa told Rosamia.
In their efforts to protect Kamille they've helped damage his perception of newtypes/self post Lahlah death styled mind meld gone wrong with Haman
I wish I could’ve enjoyed Zeta as much as you have. I can see why people like it so much, but it just never resonated with me like 0079 had.
I’ve recently started watching the Gundam series for the first time, and I just finished Zeta. For the beginning, I just couldn’t get into it. It’s wasn’t until around episode ten that I was hooked on Zeta like I was at the beginning of 0079. However, around episode 30 it lost me again. I remember the last few episodes quite well and a lot of the major plot points before that, but It just didn’t click with me for whatever reason.
Also, I think it’s funny that the universe has essentially reset back to the end of the One Year War. All military factions and forces have been essentially wiped out, leaving just the Earth, space colonies, and remnants of Zeon lmao
I did a jubilant celebration in my room when Jerid died.
Any form of media retrospective that looks at the history of production and the actual humans behind very human works, is a thumbs up from me. Good job man
Hey ArgonBolt, seeing how well put together this video is, I was wondering if you planned on uncovering the story behind Gundam SEED's production, success and influence on other anime as well as future plans of the Cosmic Era (Gundam SEED movie and possible continuation?).
Will def get to SEED some day, but there is a bunch of Gundam stuff I want to get through before then so you may have to wait a bit.
Kamille might be you but Judau was me
"Elon Musk is the worst kind of Oldtype."
actually fitting and hilarious since Tomino has stated his disapproval of Musk.
Yeah its funny knowing Musk's entire philosophy was laughed at in a show from like 30 years before anyone knew who he was.
Contradicting motivations and emotional beats in people? Almost like they are... three dimensional? GASP? In my anime?!
Another thing for the rage in Kamille... He saw his parents die, grew up during war, is a teen... PTSD or other stress related problems? While not a kid, he's still very young and has to kill, along with being bullied first. There's a lot of potential for troubles.
1:32:30 Yeah, I also find transforming mobile suits really strange. I grew up watching Robotech, which does a good job of them, but the ones in Zeta Gundam and especially Double Zeta are way too complicated. It makes my suspension of disbelief a lot harder, especially since this is a relatively serious Gundam show. And they tend to have a human mode, and then an unrecognizable mode. Anyway, I like the doughnut one.
stick here finally its been release !!!
Have to grab some popcorn now
LET'S
FUCKING
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
It's clear you do a lot of great research on the production and development of the franchise. I'd challenge you to do it without vectrering in some intersectional nonsense.
Woah this vid needs more views
Awesome! Cant wait to watch/listen during work tomorrow, thanks for your videos.
Ironic that Gundam warns about stuff, the drone attacks between Russia and Ukraine has been touched upon in Gundam Wing. Although i have been unable to find that speech by Treize Kushrenada on youtube.
Alright, I finally found the time to sit down and watch this retrospective! Zeta is definitely one of my favorite Gundam entries but it had been quite a few years since I watched it so it's been a pleasure to get this refresher along with your analysis of it. Your commentary is always witty and insightful in equal measure and that keeps the watching very fun in addition to being instructive!
Also yes, fuck Reccoa! It's honestly impressive to consider that she exists in the same series as Fa or Emma, considering how opposite they are, not just in concept but also in how well-executed these concepts are.
Very glad you enjoyed it!
I always thought it was so funny on my first watch of Zeta that it's so clear how much of a loser Jerid is that he keeps failing and losing subordinates and prototype suits every single time he sorties out and yet he keeps getting promoted and getting girls on his dick. So much so that Yazan lampshades his luck in an almost meta level like 10 episodes before he dies.
Yeah he is like a perfect stooge, he keeps making the same mistakes, never learns and makes them again. Kinda a great improvement of the asshole rival archetype. So much so its hard to think of another one Tomino would make quite so cathartic to see fail over and over.
just some comments about the lady rankings
i always thought Beltorchika would fit right in with the girls in Mean Girls tbh i think your giving her to much credit lol
Khamil is a lovable little goblin boy with mommy issuses dont take it 2hard that he only blames his mom
Hamon should of been #1 she a str8 up baddie
have you looked at Jared's hair??? sexy af!!!
MOBILE SUIT ZETA GUNDAM isn't the sequel to Gundam 0079. Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory is the sequel to Gundam 0079 since it takes place 3 years after the one year war, plus it also acts as a prequel to the events of Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam. So Zeta Gundam acts as a continuation after the events of Gundam 0083
@@DejaVuae86 no, in the real world where the fictional Gundam series is created, Zeta from 1985 is the sequel which continues the story of 0079, not 0083 Stardust Memory which came out in 1991 a full 6 years later and which does not include the main characters like Amuro or Char.
In universe Operation Stardust took place in between the one year war and the gryps conflict, but that is not "a sequel" we don't call the cold war the sequel to world war II, because sequels are fictional sequences, those are subsequent historical events.
I wish CDA had been written better or that gap in history never visited. It really is criminal the undermining it does to Haman's character.
While I do agree that Reccoa was poorly handled in some areas, i wouldnt call her poorly written nessacarily.
Firstly, there is the vagueness of Scirocco's influence. He is a gaslighter and manipulator, but also got the sense he has an aura of suggestion about him, as if his Newtype powers excude a sort of charismatic aura about him. Its one of the reasons I feel Yazan didnt blasy his guts out.
Secondly, its stated and shown throughout the show that while they do "care" for Reccoa the crew of the Argama (and to some extent the AEUG as a whole) they often dont treat her like they do. Treating her more like a tool or object an asset for the cause.
Thirdly, she openly admits to Fa to "not be like her," and that she is in fact shes a terrible person. It's openly stated IN THE show that she didnt join the rebels for "thrill seeking" but rather she became addicted to it as it was the only thing that gave her meaning in the life anymore.
Lastly, an often lost in translation moment at her death is that its very heavily implied she was SAed by her former allies during the One Year War and thusly broke alot her trust in people around her and made her very socially withdrawn from the people leaving her vunerable TO manipulation and newtype mind whammies.
Granted i dont think its the best writing and its very obviously written from a male perspective and is filled with sexist baggage. But i dont think its as bad as you make it out to be.
2:17:26 That's extra funny with Unicorn in mind
So, in Japanese culture corporal punishment is not frowned upon to the degree it is in the West. It's not uncommon for School Coaches in Japan to beat the ever loving shit out of their students without any complaints from the parents. The trope of an unruly Japanese Jock archetype getting a book thrown at him by his teacher is something that actually happens in Japan.
I am curious how much this is still a thing nowadays tbh. I have some Japanese student teacher friends I could ask.
Damn, that was epic!
As a brazilian, I really didn't expect Bolsonaro to appear on a Gundam video, but here we are
Zeta is good however i do not like how new types abilities are used as plot armor. And the main character can see that ok Sirroc is evil but not char, the guy literally solves everything trying to drop objects on earth lol please forgive miss spells
~~Gungriffon retrospective next~~?
I would need to actually get the GG games emulating well and my computer doesn't really like doing dreamcast for now sorry.
i never thought I'd find a channel that talks about Gundam with leftists perspectives. you are my favorite TH-cam channel now
brilliant
While there are a good many compelling points for why Zeta seems to be the darling child of many, I still do not rank among those that do. The Titans feel almost comically evil to the point where I can't take them as seriously as I'd want to, and points to Gundam's overall non-subtlety in general. Other than the obvious stinker of Reccoa's joke of a character, nobody seems to really mention Katz, and how he is equally as destructive with his presence, allowing many slipups and annoyances to happen. It's weird people hate the kids but not the other teenage character, that is too much for me to ignore for the show's shortcomings. Yeah, teens in rebellion and all that, but this gets more ridiculous later on too. Another after-effect of changing so much from the original, ironically, is that everything after Zeta from Tomino's UC catalogue just feels like Zeta, again and again to the point where Zeta could be considered the litmus test for whether or not one enjoys the UC timeline in general, for the most part. A lot of changes happen in Zeta, yes, but nothing past here feels like there is an ounce of change that feels noticeable, and while not blatantly as creatively bankrupt as Seed Destiny, this too is also just another inspiration that I feel that series has taken from UC, in a rather unflattering way. The increased presence and handling of Newtypes also becomes more in line with how Unicorn could come to the conclusions it did, with that final encounter. I understand I'm definitely in the minority when I say this, and while I do not hate UC in general, it does lead me to not get as much enjoyment as some others do in this regard. Zeta does handle wonderfully a sequel in as good of a regard as it possibly can without being too off-putting, and it is something I will give that credit for. I really wonder how ZZ answers the "is this a necessary sequel" question though.
Honestly way more gundam trails in 0079's shoes then Zeta's. Bits of Zeta are used, but nothing as much as Zeta. Even ZZ didn't really follow up Zeta despite being literally "Zeta again". As for the ZZ question, "Very very poorly" I will need to say that in much more detail very soon.
As for the Titan thing, the Titans are a reactionary military force. History shows time and again they are usually some of the most repressive violent and even comically evil groups. If you want one easy good example look up the Freikorps who straight up did try a coup in Germany and would go on to form the backbone of the SS and Nazi party enforcers. Absolutely ridiculously evil to a T.
@@argonbolt Perhaps you may be right about that, but I think Zeta's influence proves to be large enough that I can't help but see the effects of it more easily, even if the original's base is likely still being used in reality. Yes, it's unlikely that the Titans weren't at least based historically, but it still feels very radical two episodes in just going from 0 to 100 in how they are very much the bad guys this time around. And how they are clearly supposed to be Zeon but worse (which also baffles me if people defend them). Just my two cents throwing around in a sea of Zeta appraisal.
Bandai: Yes.
Yes because Haman Karn had to be taken care of, and not killed off screen like a bitch like how a lot of modern pieces do, no pun intended.
even tho i support the Titans
i do agree with you argon that the transforming mobile suits in zeta are weird af
Emma deserved better // I feel like the sequel aged better than the original.
Does anyone know the song which play during section one? I have looked through all the linked songs and have looked through the zeta ost and cannot find it. Sorry if it’s an obvious answer.
time stamp and i can grab it
@@argonbolt1:40 thank you!!
@@dweebishy8600 A sign of Zeta orchestral version from the Gundam Orchestra CD
@@argonbolt Thank you bless! The video was great too btw the amount of depth and thought is amazing :)
A shame Chars character is assasinated and ultimately mishandled by Tomino in the end.
It is not.
@@juresaiyan Ok?
@@juresaiyanare you stupid?
@@bryanc7094 it's not, it perfectly tracks if you pay attention.
9:17 >EVA Will get its own video
Oh...you poor man. Such a Series that has been done written and Rewritten with so many Video Essays saying something sucks, Something is great, Some saved industry, and RUINED the Industry all in one show...
Eva has been done quite a bit, but I think a lot of them miss some big stuff I could talk about.
A lot of my questions, speculative or confusion, have been answered by your explanation, research and speculation. Zeta laid me down as soon as it starts. Alas I found it overwhelming compares to '79, and felt like it was reasonably rushed (pacing wise) due to the density of the story they're trying to deliver. They left little time for things to settle in. After watching Zeta, I acknowledged I couldn't grasp it as well as 79 and I need to rewatch it someday. After this video, I know I'll feel more equipped when the time comes.
I went ahead and watch Double Zeta after finishing your previous vid. Thought it'd be nice if I can keep 1 series ahead of your series. And if you ever planned to talk about more women there, I can't wait to listen about Elpeo Puru who I noticed is also rethreading many characters of Zeta.
nooo be nice to chaaam (idc about the others)
IDK man. Return to monarchy sounds pretty good right now to me. The assumption that a return to monarchy is a backslide I think reflects a sort of Marxian whiggishness that history and modes of human existence progress linearly.
While it is true Marx's progression of history is pretty linear, I really fail to see what situation would make monarchy some kind of favorable alternative. Especially in the west where most of our biggest societal issues are pretty blatantly caused by a narrower and narrower group of assholes getting more and more rich/powerful, going all the way back to king town seems like a pretty big L.
I saw this mind you, as a self-conscious reactionary (used in the traditional sense of offering an alternative model to materialist liberalism that developed just prior to and in the years following the french revolution) -- de Maistre and his ilk.
@@cyphermasq7870 In that case idk dude we got plenty of decrepit conservative hierarchies which are responsible for a good number of social problems. Unless your dad works at Lockheed Martin or some such it just aint a good setup for the rest of us.
Because you’re White? 😂
In terms of outcome, who can say for sure? What comes to mind is King Charles's ideas about ecology, among other things. Ok, so should we give that guy real power? Probably not, but let's just say that real monarchism hasn't been tried in the modern age. Nor real ecofascism, nor any conservative or reactionary ideology that takes conservationism seriously. There is in any case no proof that democracy, let alone Marxism, will solve ecological issues.
not gonna lie, autistic person here, i think almost every gundam protagonist is on the spectrum. It might be silly and projecting but man basically none of them can pick up on social cues. I know it's cuz they're all newtypes but I also think that the spectrum is broad and i'm someone who has been told often "oh but you don't seem autistic", and i feel that same kind of energy from a lot of the protags, Kamille included, Domon excluded.
1:01:31 I must insist on the fact that even though Camille Claudel from which Tomino drew inspiration was a woman "Camille" is not gendered and can as much a boy name.
Yeah it's a man's name and he is a man!
Carne Asada twist😂😂😂
Had to go "Orange Man Bad." Bummer. He's the President again. Maga time!
@@jaegerbomb269 I'm wearing Avery large I was right short right now. Tomino also predicted as much last summer. This isn't a good thing.
@@argonbolt Credit where it's due, you had guts to respond. I won't apologize for supporting populism. Yet, vehemently disagree with you about what you call "reactionaries." Current status quo sucks and needs to go. Also, diversity is like a fart. If it has to be forced and doesn't come out naturally, it's shit. Just look at STD, Concord, Dust Born, and so many others woke flops. How much more proof is needed?