A ray of sunshine was Sam Stein KC, saying that he had asked the question 3 times and had no answer. It spoke volumes. We should remember this miserable little interchange.
He was a f*cking COMMITTEE member, FFS. He didn't lie, he was lied to! I'd love you to explain to me how government is supposed to work when those proividing the information lie to MPs and Ministers, especially when this system has benn pretty damned reliable for several hundred years. I get thatb the system needs to be changed, but that is because the board members, the CEO and the MD of POL LIED. That is not normal, and you can't blame an MP or Minister for trusting the people who are supposed to NEVER LIE to the government.
No, he's not. Unfortunately, he was lied to continually by all who knew the truth, as were ALL the politicians involved. Maybe you should learn how government works. I do see that Ministers and politicians should not be so trusting of their advisors, but this has not normally been an issue. If you appear in front of a committee of the HoC, it is not normal for a witness to straight up lie. In fact, in all the years of watching UK politics, I can only think of one other person who lied straight to a committee; Boris Johnson. And he was forced out of office for doing so. That Ms Vennels appears to still not have even been interviewed about her perjury before the committee is, to me, still bizarre. I do see that changes need to be made to how ministers get their information, but the reality is that the government relies entirely on a system of precedences that go back centuries. But you can't blame one specific MP or Minister for that. It is how the UK government has always worked, and most of the time it has worked reasonably well.
The most striking thing about these ministerial testimonies is the yawning gap that it uncovers - between their earnest statements of what should be done - and what they actually did when they held positions of power and had the ball at their feet. This speaks volumes.
I love the comment at the end 'Sir, I've asked that question 3 times now, I think I'll stop there (coz he obviously has no intention of answering it)' :)
@@michaelmcginley7930 Not unintelligent, just knowing how government works, which is clkearly what you don't. I don't dispute that there are problems with how government works, and part of the remit of the enquiry is precisely to address that subject, but you actually demonstrate exactly how ignorant you are withy your own comment. I bet that you have bought into the Thatcherite BS about getting rid of "useless Civil Servants" as well. BTW, demanding that a Minister should resign when he has literally been in post for less than 2 weeks, while his previous responsibility was as a Committee member That DID ask the questions and WAS lied to, is far more unintelligent that anything I could think up in my wildest dreams. That you clearly know NOTHING about how the government works, yet then claim that somebody else (who, BTW, does) is "unintelligent" is pretty damned impressive.
So, you would have expected him to go AGAINST established procedure? You'd need to be both VERY brave AND very convinced to do so, and even then he would have faced the possibility of censure for doing so. It is really, really easy to criticise all involved, but I do not think that the problems here were thje politicians, the problem was that everybody who knew flat out lied, and they should ALL face criminal charges for doing so.
@@davidcolin6519 : Wrong ... he spoke of an overturned court case that he wasn't aware of, surely that should have set a different procedure instead of asking the PO if everything was ok ... the PO wasn't about to admit is wasn't disclosing full evidence in court.
@@PYDPIPER "the PO wasn't about to admit is wasn't disclosing full evidence in court." Seriously? Why not? FFS, the government, in the person of the minister responsible, was the sole shareholder. That means that the whole board and the Chief executive had what is called "A duty of candour" to tell the full truth, and not lie to owner, especially as the owner is the sole institution responsible for any decisions. It really beggars belief that so many people know so little about legal responsibilities of businesses, and even less about how government works. This whole scandal is depressing. Depressing because of the obvious habitual and continual wrongdoing of POL, depressing because it confirms all of my worst experiences of how UK business practices are so inadequate, and depressing because it demonstrates how little the population knows about... well... virtually anything.
This is exactly my experience with MP's. I highlighted something the council was doing to my MP. They said an investigation would be conducted. Five months later, nothing had been done. When I requested an update, they phoned the council, who assured them everything was fine. The MP said everything was ok according to the council so no issue!
This is a lazy guy. If there were accusations of abuse of children at a school…he would ask the headteacher of the school if it were true, and if the school said the kids are lying, for him - end of subject.
It was a scam they all knew just like all the other scams that involve the people in this country who think they are beyond approach or any accountability its a scandal one of many everyone involved should be charged and sent to prison
These politicians are doing the exact same as those that in the Post Office, Fujitsu, the solicitor’s & barristers. Their memories are very selective, they are blaming others. If they’d taken the right action when the numerous allegations from the spm’s were made this travesty could have been stopped in its tracks.
This man thinks the excuse for not asking a victim for information about their allegations of abuse and perjured evidence is justified by saying Well we asked the abuser and they say they didn’t do it. We didn’t ask the victim because the perjured evidence of an abuser was sufficient.
Yes. The "logic" is like if someone is burgled and names who did it, you don't check for evidence, you just ask the burglar and if he says he didn't do it then clearly thats all fine then.
"I am just raking in money for old rope, you cannot expect me to do my job aswell?, surely the fact that I throw the problem back to the Post Office PROVES I was sitting around and doing absolutely NOTHING!"
The idea that ministers can't "intervene" in court judgements is nonsense. They make the Law. It is absolutely their duty to monitor the judicial system to ensure it is fit for purpose. They queue up to get their faces on the media if they see a sentence as too lenient.
The whole affair has been a collusion between state, the judiciary, Westminster and Fujitsu, like other failures of state, there is a line running through that is crystal clear, when the backs against the wall close ranks, scapegoat the innocent, and all the way to the executioner maintain the lies, deny responsibility, pretend you all didn't know, while the kingpins employed to hold station leave their posts on a regular basis, rewarded with gongs for their "service". The question that should be being asked here isn't the one about these individuals, but the rest of Westminster, the other government departments such as HMRC and the DWP, what skeletons are they hiding, how much more is there out there? As when there has been such casual and comfortable collusion in this failure, like Orgreave, Hillsborough, Waspi, Windrush Grenfell, there is system here that wherever you look isn't just failing, its designed to be corrupt, and ultimately never punishes those responsible, never learns lessons other than how to bury the truth deeper and the wheels roll on to the next generation, protected.
well you know what to do, treat him with the contempt that he diserves. put some time into making himregret been a parasite making a good living out of the public purse. He is a scumbag, and should be treated as such
He says the right thing to do was to speak to the post office..History has shown that organisations lie, the naivety or stupidity of these people. Speak to the practitioners, they will always tell the truth.
The questions I have never heard asked or aired are 1. WHY (for what purpose) WERE THE HORIZON PEOPLE ALTERING THOSE POST OFFICE ACCOUNTS? and further 2. "WAS THIS A POSSIBLE VEHICLE FOR FRAUD/THEFT or A CORPORATE WAY OF BOOSTING POST OFFICE PROFITS? WHY WERE THEY DOING IT?
A view from the UK. "the right thing to do was to ask the people running the business". So, does that mean that when looking at the atrocities of the Holocaust we should ask the Nazis on why the Jews were complaining?
My great uncle once said. Sometimes you have to take justice yourself because the corrupt system wont do it for you. It only serves to protect those who wish to distort it to suit themselves.
How many of those responsible will face a criminal trial and prison? The Post Office inquiry is theatre to appease the masses. We saw with Partygate that laws are for the little people.
Yes, this why most of us are in despair over politicians……….do they not recognize true pertinent questions or just cynically totally disregard truth. it would seem no person who directs big business, banking and chiefs of police, NHS administration and certainly not banking. They are never held responsible for any mistakes, errors of judgement. Just remember how many bankers went to prison for the last financial crisis? No the little people must carry blame. It is impossible to compensate so many adequately for this PO scandal, we can not repair years of misery and loss of life. We do know the authorities are liable to drag every thing out as long as possible.
There's a possibility that Paula Vennells and a few of the Executive with some lawyers could face a High Court trial. I would imagine the Police with other government bodies have been watching with interest in the inquiry. It's a 50/50 as to whether further prosecution's will take place. An active investigation would take some time to mount on individuals, then actively take those prosecutions to court. Could be years, and the cost is great.
Complete waste of money this inquiry no one will be held accountable and all these millions spent could have gone to the victims instead of all these very well paid inquirers
Another vacuum who didn’t and never have a damn. Shame on him. Supercilious and insubstantial. Heaven help this Country with the likes of this in charge of even a sweet shop
You begin to see a clear pattern of passing the 'buck' (excuse the pun) Surely, the PO must have seen an increase in accounting problems. But did nothing... simply putting the problem on conveyor belt.
Because he think the bosses tell the truth and workers tell lies.... This is the basis of the Labour Process , the master slave relationship. It is ashame this Labour politician defaults to the assumption that the master indeed, holds the moral high ground of morality and upstanding at the expense of the worker. Which side are you on? ....Clear that this Labour one is in the pocket of the bosses.
Why is he allowed to constantly spin his answer by the Enquiry Chair? Government platitudes and head burying when they were in those Job titles and paid significant wages/Pension contributions to correctly oversee the Department’s they oversaw. No doubt it was a cover up of the Post Office/Department heads/Fujitsu.
He could have spoken to the Federation - but as the Federation was in the pocket of the Post Office, what would that have achieved? What he should have done, if it then existed, was speak to Alan Bates' organization. The failure here goes well beyond McFadden.
It was clear to all that there was a serious problem with Horizon. These politicians live in a different reality to the rest of us. They did nothing to help or sort the problem out but because of the prosecutions, they decided it would be too messy and so did nothing.
Me: The police are beating me up. Police: Oh no we aren't! Absolutely not! Those responsible for police: They said they didn't, very emphatically. No point in looking further into it.
Will Prison time be handed down or the striping of parachute payments, golden handshakes and/or large pensions from those guilty of gross mismanagement and criminal conduct in the subsequent cover up. Me thinks not. Does anyone remember the grooming gang inquiry?, a lot of hot air and recommendations but no real justice.
The Post Office was run day to day by thugs who knew every loophole. The Post office was overseen by the government who happily closed their eyes and took the money.
Pat McFadden is really saying that if something goes to court, Ministers will assume the party being alleged is guilty *because* it's a legal matter. Which is obviously backwards, and shows that the ministerial code needs updating. We can also reasonably imply from this that government will take the side of one of its departments of a Crown agency (such as the PO). There you have it: The executive don't see their duty as being to protect constituents (they're happy to leave that to MPs), or the public, but rather to government employees (or even ex-government employees).
His defence was he was lied to. That may be acceptable what is not were the people around him and the liers at the post office. The lawyers and senior management. Fujitsu knew all along from 1999 who were the real culprits!
Clearly to get a position in politics you need before anythjng else,a large EGO gland ...everything else then follows on. If a low level civil serveant or member of the armed service showed the same lack of initiative and considered thought their career woukd not be a long one. What a goon.
I thought Mr Stein was a bit off form today and rather wasted his questions. They were rather long, rambling and vague when he really could have nailed Davy on many counts - not least failing to represent the interests of his constituents.
What’s highly unusual is that these people attempted to balance the books day after day by using their own money to hide their alleged theft until the alleged loses became so great that they became effectively bankrupt.
They did so to continue trading, in the hope that they could find the 'error' and correct it. A branch that did not balance was locked out by the system.
It was in their contract that they had to make up any losses, the assumption being that the only way money could go missing was by postmasters taking it.
You would have thought the obvious thing to do was ask to meet the victims and find out what was happening. Then go and talk to the reporter who wrote the article before asking the Post Office.
The Rt Honorable, a title which has never been less deserved
Sam Stein KC is an absolute treasure and an amazing advocate for his clients. God bless him
A ray of sunshine was Sam Stein KC, saying that he had asked the question 3 times and had no answer. It spoke volumes. We should remember this miserable little interchange.
I don't know whether to marry him or Ed Henry. Both gentlemen of full habit.
Agreed lol xx
Mcfadden's constituents ought to be asking as to "why did we vote this toad back into office as our MP"?
A slimy jock to boot....
McFadden and Davey should be in front of a judge and jury.
Politicians being completely incompetent which in turn contributed this absolutely British mis-carriage of justice
And this guy is Starmer's right hand man...who is tasked with 'fixing' our 'broken' country....Lord help us
He was a f*cking COMMITTEE member, FFS. He didn't lie, he was lied to!
I'd love you to explain to me how government is supposed to work when those proividing the information lie to MPs and Ministers, especially when this system has benn pretty damned reliable for several hundred years.
I get thatb the system needs to be changed, but that is because the board members, the CEO and the MD of POL LIED. That is not normal, and you can't blame an MP or Minister for trusting the people who are supposed to NEVER LIE to the government.
If he does not listen to the SPMs, what are the chances he will listen to the people of Britain??
@@ingeborgpowell2878 I'm trying to figure out wtf you're talking about, but can't imagine what you think SPMs are supposed to be.
All of Starmers cabinet are total disasters
@@davidcolin6519get a grip
"I know you've been a politician for a very long time, but that wasn't my question." Damn!
It wasn't me, I didn't know, I don't remember, it was someone else, it wasn't my job. My, my never heard that before.
The ever smug, smirking McFadden not smirking now....horrendous, sly individual
This PoS is a national disgrace.
No, he's not. Unfortunately, he was lied to continually by all who knew the truth, as were ALL the politicians involved.
Maybe you should learn how government works.
I do see that Ministers and politicians should not be so trusting of their advisors, but this has not normally been an issue. If you appear in front of a committee of the HoC, it is not normal for a witness to straight up lie. In fact, in all the years of watching UK politics, I can only think of one other person who lied straight to a committee; Boris Johnson. And he was forced out of office for doing so. That Ms Vennels appears to still not have even been interviewed about her perjury before the committee is, to me, still bizarre.
I do see that changes need to be made to how ministers get their information, but the reality is that the government relies entirely on a system of precedences that go back centuries. But you can't blame one specific MP or Minister for that. It is how the UK government has always worked, and most of the time it has worked reasonably well.
A very little man doing a big job very badly ,as you say resign
He’s apparently in kier’s inner circle. He isnt going anywhere.
@@coderider3022 I do love seance
The most striking thing about these ministerial testimonies is the yawning gap that it uncovers - between their earnest statements of what should be done - and what they actually did when they held positions of power and had the ball at their feet. This speaks volumes.
Well said.
I love the comment at the end 'Sir, I've asked that question 3 times now, I think I'll stop there (coz he obviously has no intention of answering it)' :)
Not answering questions is now so ingrained in our professional politicians, they do it on instinct. And then wonder why we've lost faith in them
My god it’s laughable that this man can hold a position in our Government.. very worrying! Horrible man.
As the minister of postal affairs it was YOUR job!!! Utterly useless & not fit for purpose.
Apart from Sir Allen Bates i have not heard a genuine, sincere and truthfull answer from any witness during the entire inquiry.
The gentlemen from Second Sight were pretty genuine - and didn't suffer chronic memory lapses!
The two gentlemen from Second Site were brilliant didn't hold back with how everyone lied
And Lord Arbuthnot
What a disgrace that this master of weasel words is still in a position of power. If this is typical of Starmer's judgement, heaven help this country.
Resign McFadden !
Why? For being lied to?
@@davidcolin6519one of the most unintelligent responces i have ever heard.i will not explain it will go over your head.
@@michaelmcginley7930 Not unintelligent, just knowing how government works, which is clkearly what you don't.
I don't dispute that there are problems with how government works, and part of the remit of the enquiry is precisely to address that subject, but you actually demonstrate exactly how ignorant you are withy your own comment.
I bet that you have bought into the Thatcherite BS about getting rid of "useless Civil Servants" as well.
BTW, demanding that a Minister should resign when he has literally been in post for less than 2 weeks, while his previous responsibility was as a Committee member That DID ask the questions and WAS lied to, is far more unintelligent that anything I could think up in my wildest dreams.
That you clearly know NOTHING about how the government works, yet then claim that somebody else (who, BTW, does) is "unintelligent" is pretty damned impressive.
@@michaelmcginley7930 BTW, there's also some pretty spectacular hypocrisy, considering you can't even spell "responses" without making a mistake🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@davidcolin6519you really are thick
He could not give a damn disgraceful.
Once a politician always a politician as he can not answer a question with out talking about something else entirely !
Allegations by the abused passed to the abuser for explanation?! Add him to the PO prison list.
Prat The right thing to do was to question all involved, not hide behind incorrectly established procedure again, Prat !!!!
He’s just lazy.
So, you would have expected him to go AGAINST established procedure? You'd need to be both VERY brave AND very convinced to do so, and even then he would have faced the possibility of censure for doing so.
It is really, really easy to criticise all involved, but I do not think that the problems here were thje politicians, the problem was that everybody who knew flat out lied, and they should ALL face criminal charges for doing so.
@@davidcolin6519 : Wrong ... he spoke of an overturned court case that he wasn't aware of, surely that should have set a different procedure instead of asking the PO if everything was ok ... the PO wasn't about to admit is wasn't disclosing full evidence in court.
@@PYDPIPER "the PO wasn't about to admit is wasn't disclosing full evidence in court."
Seriously? Why not? FFS, the government, in the person of the minister responsible, was the sole shareholder. That means that the whole board and the Chief executive had what is called "A duty of candour" to tell the full truth, and not lie to owner, especially as the owner is the sole institution responsible for any decisions.
It really beggars belief that so many people know so little about legal responsibilities of businesses, and even less about how government works.
This whole scandal is depressing. Depressing because of the obvious habitual and continual wrongdoing of POL, depressing because it confirms all of my worst experiences of how UK business practices are so inadequate, and depressing because it demonstrates how little the population knows about... well... virtually anything.
This is exactly my experience with MP's. I highlighted something the council was doing to my MP. They said an investigation would be conducted. Five months later, nothing had been done. When I requested an update, they phoned the council, who assured them everything was fine. The MP said everything was ok according to the council so no issue!
This is a lazy guy.
If there were accusations of abuse of children at a school…he would ask the headteacher of the school if it were true, and if the school said the kids are lying, for him - end of subject.
It was a scam they all knew just like all the other scams that involve the people in this country who think they are beyond approach or any accountability its a scandal one of many everyone involved should be charged and sent to prison
You’ve been a politician for a long time = I know you know how to wriggle out of answering.
And they go over it with there Lawyers before hand
Honours list gets more pathetic every time they give them out, with the rare exception of Alan Bates.
Another waste of space minister. 😡
These politicians are doing the exact same as those that in the Post Office, Fujitsu, the solicitor’s & barristers. Their memories are very selective, they are blaming others. If they’d taken the right action when the numerous allegations from the spm’s were made this travesty could have been stopped in its tracks.
He isn't right, nor is he honorable
I asked the Fox if he had been in the hen house, he said no, that was good enough for me.
Power corrupts people. Look at this guy, he couldn't care less about 'ordinary' people.
This guy is in denial
No, he is not. He was lied to, not only as an MP, but as a Committee member. For once, it wasn't a politician telling the lies.
He never asked the postmasters
This man thinks the excuse for not asking a victim for information about their allegations of abuse and perjured evidence is justified by saying Well we asked the abuser and they say they didn’t do it. We didn’t ask the victim because the perjured evidence of an abuser was sufficient.
Yes. The "logic" is like if someone is burgled and names who did it, you don't check for evidence, you just ask the burglar and if he says he didn't do it then clearly thats all fine then.
"I am just raking in money for old rope, you cannot expect me to do my job aswell?, surely the fact that I throw the problem back to the Post Office PROVES I was sitting around and doing absolutely NOTHING!"
The idea that ministers can't "intervene" in court judgements is nonsense. They make the Law. It is absolutely their duty to monitor the judicial system to ensure it is fit for purpose. They queue up to get their faces on the media if they see a sentence as too lenient.
The dishonourable Mcfadden didn't care.., and did not want to know. He was comfortable getting His money and kept His mouth shut..😢
Incompetence personified.
The whole affair has been a collusion between state, the judiciary, Westminster and Fujitsu, like other failures of state, there is a line running through that is crystal clear, when the backs against the wall close ranks, scapegoat the innocent, and all the way to the executioner maintain the lies, deny responsibility, pretend you all didn't know, while the kingpins employed to hold station leave their posts on a regular basis, rewarded with gongs for their "service". The question that should be being asked here isn't the one about these individuals, but the rest of Westminster, the other government departments such as HMRC and the DWP, what skeletons are they hiding, how much more is there out there? As when there has been such casual and comfortable collusion in this failure, like Orgreave, Hillsborough, Waspi, Windrush Grenfell, there is system here that wherever you look isn't just failing, its designed to be corrupt, and ultimately never punishes those responsible, never learns lessons other than how to bury the truth deeper and the wheels roll on to the next generation, protected.
What a weasel.
To think this man is my MP
well you know what to do, treat him with the contempt that he diserves. put some time into making himregret been a parasite making a good living out of the public purse. He is a scumbag, and should be treated as such
If you look closely you can see that when he lies, his lips move. Exactly the same as the post office senior management.
He says the right thing to do was to speak to the post office..History has shown that organisations lie, the naivety or stupidity of these people. Speak to the practitioners, they will always tell the truth.
His basis for excepting the POL version of events was "How emphatic their defence was". Is he not aware that bullies and liars do not tell the truth.
The questions I have never heard asked or aired are 1. WHY (for what purpose) WERE THE HORIZON PEOPLE ALTERING THOSE POST OFFICE ACCOUNTS? and further 2. "WAS THIS A POSSIBLE VEHICLE FOR FRAUD/THEFT or A CORPORATE WAY OF BOOSTING POST OFFICE PROFITS? WHY WERE THEY DOING IT?
A view from the UK. "the right thing to do was to ask the people running the business". So, does that mean that when looking at the atrocities of the Holocaust we should ask the Nazis on why the Jews were complaining?
My great uncle once said. Sometimes you have to take justice yourself because the corrupt system wont do it for you. It only serves to protect those who wish to distort it to suit themselves.
How does someone with this attitude ever become a minister?
Nobody has ever figured out where the missing money has gone I’d say it went straight to all these people in position to manipulate it.
That’s a very crucial point and very relevant
Earlier in the inquiry it was mentioned by the 2 engineers that money that should have been returned to the spm's ended up in Post Office accounts.
How many of those responsible will face a criminal trial and prison? The Post Office inquiry is theatre to appease the masses. We saw with Partygate that laws are for the little people.
Yes, this why most of us are in despair over politicians……….do they not recognize true pertinent questions or just cynically totally disregard truth. it would seem no person who directs big business, banking and chiefs of police, NHS administration and certainly not banking. They are never held responsible for any mistakes, errors of judgement. Just remember how many bankers went to prison for the last financial crisis? No the little people must carry blame. It is impossible to compensate so many adequately for this PO scandal, we can not repair years of misery and loss of life. We do know the authorities are liable to drag every thing out as long as possible.
There's a possibility that Paula Vennells and a few of the Executive with some lawyers could face a High Court trial. I would imagine the Police with other government bodies have been watching with interest in the inquiry. It's a 50/50 as to whether further prosecution's will take place. An active investigation would take some time to mount on individuals, then actively take those prosecutions to court. Could be years, and the cost is great.
Ooh I know the answer to this.......none
None.
@@dr.impossibleofcounterpunc1984 It's not the police that will decide to prosecute or not .
Complete waste of money this inquiry no one will be held accountable and all these millions spent could have gone to the victims instead of all these very well paid inquirers
Another vacuum who didn’t and never have a damn. Shame on him. Supercilious and insubstantial. Heaven help this Country with the likes of this in charge of even a sweet shop
You begin to see a clear pattern of passing the 'buck' (excuse the pun)
Surely, the PO must have seen an increase in accounting problems.
But did nothing... simply putting the problem on conveyor belt.
But they didn't realise this conveyor belt was in an airport, it comes back around with karma included :P
@@PYDPIPER just shameful
Appalling behavior by the MP,
Three times he is asked a simple question and three times he ducks and dives.
Guilty...10 years!
Because he think the bosses tell the truth and workers tell lies....
This is the basis of the Labour Process , the master slave relationship.
It is ashame this Labour politician defaults to the assumption that the master indeed, holds the moral high ground of morality and upstanding at the expense of the worker.
Which side are you on? ....Clear that this Labour one is in the pocket of the bosses.
Why does he keep trying to justify a system that failed in execution. Why doesn't he just acknowledge that?
These MPs are supposed to represent the public.
Why is he allowed to constantly spin his answer by the Enquiry Chair? Government platitudes and head burying when they were in those Job titles and paid significant wages/Pension contributions to correctly oversee the Department’s they oversaw. No doubt it was a cover up of the Post Office/Department heads/Fujitsu.
He could have spoken to the Federation - but as the Federation was in the pocket of the Post Office, what would that have achieved? What he should have done, if it then existed, was speak to Alan Bates' organization. The failure here goes well beyond McFadden.
Yet another " nothing to do with me mate " not my job.
They are all hopelessly incompetent and lazy.
Surely contempt of court is a chargeable offence!?…
Money went on the big Bosses bonuses
Asking the fox did it eat all the chickens is not a good idea if you want an honest answer
This is not as bad as the Sir Ed Davey attendance. He should be sacked, and have his knighthood revoked
Imagine if what this Prat has just said. Was dealing with Cancer what a bluddy disaster 😑
Another MP full of political answers and no honesty. I hope this committee sees through all the lies and deceit
Bullet dodger
Does any senior politician involved in this, Tory, Labour or Lib Dem, not stink to high heaven?
Why ask the people mis- running the business not the victlms?Laughable or what?
Rt stands for RAT
I’m tired of the word ‘robust.’
Anytime you hear the word 'robust' used by a public official or a minister, you can be sure that they know that they are standing on very thin ice.
Because the victims dont wear the same club tie
It was clear to all that there was a serious problem with Horizon. These politicians live in a different reality to the rest of us. They did nothing to help or sort the problem out but because of the prosecutions, they decided it would be too messy and so did nothing.
Me: The police are beating me up. Police: Oh no we aren't! Absolutely not!
Those responsible for police: They said they didn't, very emphatically. No point in looking further into it.
It wasn't me; a big boy did it and ran away.
The minister was lied to. He believed the lies he was told. That makes him a VICTIM, not a culprit.
😂😂😂😂😂
It wasn't me all blaming each other no balls no morals
The arrogance of these upper management must be looked into and rectified.
What a load of garbage coming out from him let’s pass the buck yet again
He seems to have a lot of points - none of them questioned or addressed the problem he was supposed to oversee.
Very disturbing that in MacFaddens judgement he thought it was "the right thing to do".
No me gov,I only signed the letters .
Will Prison time be handed down or the striping of parachute payments, golden handshakes and/or large pensions from those guilty of gross mismanagement and criminal conduct in the subsequent cover up. Me thinks not. Does anyone remember the grooming gang inquiry?, a lot of hot air and recommendations but no real justice.
Seems like the PO was run and overseen by either civil servants or politicians, neither of whom could run a whelk stall.
The Post Office was run day to day by thugs who knew every loophole. The Post office was overseen by the government who happily closed their eyes and took the money.
Who would trust McFadden?
Why has her being given 5 mins to question him! When the other bloke had an hour plus!!!
Another clown from POL!!!!!
Isn’t he getting looked into for renting a house next door to him and the cost was£40000 very Fishy
Pat McFadden is really saying that if something goes to court, Ministers will assume the party being alleged is guilty *because* it's a legal matter.
Which is obviously backwards, and shows that the ministerial code needs updating.
We can also reasonably imply from this that government will take the side of one of its departments of a Crown agency (such as the PO).
There you have it: The executive don't see their duty as being to protect constituents (they're happy to leave that to MPs), or the public, but rather to government employees (or even ex-government employees).
Why is this person not locked up
For god sake he is a criminal and should be treated as one
So if you have a fox in your chicken coop you should ask the fox what should be done about the situation?!🤔🙄
His defence was he was lied to. That may be acceptable what is not were the people around him and the liers at the post office. The lawyers and senior management. Fujitsu knew all along from 1999 who were the real culprits!
Clearly to get a position in politics you need before anythjng else,a large EGO gland ...everything else then follows on. If a low level civil serveant or member of the armed service showed the same lack of initiative and considered thought their career woukd not be a long one. What a goon.
I thought Mr Stein was a bit off form today and rather wasted his questions. They were rather long, rambling and vague when he really could have nailed Davy on many counts - not least failing to represent the interests of his constituents.
What’s highly unusual is that these people attempted to balance the books day after day by using their own money to hide their alleged theft until the alleged loses became so great that they became effectively bankrupt.
They did so to continue trading, in the hope that they could find the 'error' and correct it. A branch that did not balance was locked out by the system.
@@grahamnichols1416 yes, precisely, the fact that the thief is putting back their alleged theft is indicative that they were not stealing.
It was in their contract that they had to make up any losses, the assumption being that the only way money could go missing was by postmasters taking it.
I think someone said absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You would have thought the obvious thing to do was ask to meet the victims and find out what was happening. Then go and talk to the reporter who wrote the article before asking the Post Office.
Sam Stein is excellent, but too polite to this witness who is stone-walling