No amnesia from these two gentlemen , immediate clear articulate and honest answers ..how refreshing after the PO teams bumbling attempts to pass the buck and deny knowing anything that could incriminate them ..
They have been preparing for this for years! It was only their non-disclosure agreement that prevented them from reporting, as they done, earlier. Legislation is needed to allow disclosure of such info, overriding NDAs, where it relates to criminal activity or prosecutions.
I do believe the police have the power to confiscate the assets of criminals, the objective being, of course, that crime doesn't pay. So if Paula Vennels is convicted, all the money she made can be confiscated by the police, even her property or properties especially if bought with the proceeds of her crime. She'll leave prison penniless and homeless.
I suspect with the way things have gone new prisons in general may be necessary but I do agree that the Post Office management from the time should probably be at the front of the queue.
It would do them good to share overcrowding in a normal prison. On the other hand, prison inmates are very unpleasant with this type of person, and maybe Vennell and Co will need protection. How the mighty are falling.
Is it though? Between 1999 and 2015, more than 900 subpostmasters were convicted of theft, fraud and false accounting based on faulty Horizon data, with about 700 of these prosecutions carried out by the Post Office. Other subpostmasters were prosecuted but not convicted, forced to cover shortfalls caused by Horizon with their own money, or had their contracts terminated. The court cases, criminal convictions, imprisonments, loss of livelihoods and homes, debts, and bankruptcies led to stress, illness, family breakdowns and at least four suicides.
Chris Aujard is nothing more than a total bully making such threats, if there is any justice in the UK (which I very much doubt), he should spend the rest of his days in prison.
The police are incompetent, corrupt and part of the problem. Their investigation’ will take years. Charging and bringing cases to court will take years. Those charged will be those PO throw under the bus. Then there’ll be the appeals. Miscarriage of justice? It’s how it perfectly works for the establishment.
@@macroman54 I fear that his lawyers would be able to get him indicted for a lesser crime. Tbf, I do not think they should get life, but a 20 years tariff with at least 10 years inside would be well-deserved.
Any convictions over this, and found guilty, should not paid for by the taxpayers. Those convicted should pay compensation to the victims. Surely this is proceeds of crime. I wouldn't care if they are left begging on streets.
Agreed. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown knew. They should be first to jail and have their assets stripped along with all the other Labour and Conservative politicians and their snivel servants. All we get is one scandal after another with Labour and Conservative.
The Met Police need to get off their butts and get on with criminal proceedings. If they don’t then the Met Commissioner needs to be fired and replaced with someone with backbone. The Met is quite happy to prosecute the little people but shown to be biased when it comes to the big wigs.
When the Met Commissioner knows and is friendly with PO management, like Paula Vennels, I doubt anything will happen. The fact there hasn't been a peep out of the Met over the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history speaks volumes.
Ron and Ian: thank you so much for your courage, integrity, and indefatigable persistence. You are both heroes and ensured that the real truth would emerge despite everything thrown against you.🎉❤
I'd like to see Mr Henderson and his colleagues be given police protection until they have given evidence in court, some people in POL have a lot to loose
@@bodger97 Doesn't mean squat. He's an old man now. Being ex-SAS doesn't mean you can stop a bullet with your teeth. He needs protection. There is no telling what Vennells can still do.
@@SarahMulvey-yj7tw Surely not! She's a Woman of God don't you know!? A favourite of Justin Welby who had this vile creature lined up for the Bishop of London position!
Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson need to be recognised for the work that they have done to uphold justice, and to seek the truth, despite the threats of the POL team. They need to be given honours to reflect their virtue and grit, qualities which are sadly lacking in so many today.
And of course Second Sight became a nuisance and had to be sacked. There was at least one whistleblower, an IT specialist at Horizon who had also tried to get the message out about the fact that the Horizon system wasn't fit for purpose. He got the sack even more quickly.
How did the courts not notice that an unusually high number of subpostmasters were getting prosecuted for the same thing and not stop to think why? It makes the courts look embarrassing, they should have the cleverest of society in its buildings.
The judiciary cannot be blamed given the circumstances. POL got away for so long with the lie that Horizon was faultless that all three Establishment pillars believed there was 'nothing to see here' until the damage had been done. ["After all, for as long as there's been post offices there's always a few postmasters putting their hands in the till, so what better to catch more of them than a wonderful computer system?" Something like that....]
Yes, and you can see why this would rattle those wielding power with chaos. Having caused misery for the sub post office masters and mistresses (some driven to suicide) they would not think twice about threatening these two men with legal ruin through forced bankruptcy...and all with public money to play with. I wonder how THEY slept last night.
They were impressive, very impressive, but that is because they were telling the truth, and not having to remember the coaching their legal teams had given them. I would trust these two wonderful guys with my life!
Thank you to the gents. The managers should go to prison , be stripped of pensions and their assets . Shame on them ! That’s why Paula Vennels was crying. Caught out!
If you had even one scintilla of doubt about the collective guilt of the parade of rogues shuffling through the Inquiry corridors, (clearly suffering from dementia and recall deficit) who cried and lied their way through their 'evidence', then listening to these two guys give their evidence is a real treat. They were the opposite. Clear, concise, no spin though spitting feathers (quite rightly) about the way they were given the run around by this viperous bunch . Give them both gongs!
I feel the major players WILL end up with custodial sentences . Not least because we will have a new government soon ( be it Labour or Tory ) and would think this would be a great start for them in making that a reality ! Much kudos !
Remember “yes prime minister “ Humphrey; you never start inquiries unless you know the outcome. It is a theatre. Should have gone straight to criminal prosecution. There was/is enough evidence. Same with judges, they all played into PO interest
There is hope. There is hope for justice if it’s making it to court and make it to public TV. So sad for those lives ruined and the ones who are no longer with us. I’m in the US and I think about those precious souls lost, I think about them often as more news breaks. So sad.
For everyone's sake make sure you guys do the same with the Wannabe dictator 🤡 and his power base. He's already cost lives your side and ours the side of the pond. We've had a lot of experience dealing with self glorifying back stabbing pocket lining idiots.... but it's like a game of whack a mole... and If you don't deal with them they all start popping up and playing their ... Silly beggars leadership games and hurting ordinary people. Whilst covering up the fact that they are fundamentally clueless.🙄🧙🏻♂️
Sorry- Yank here. “Thinly veiled” to me is “barely disguised” - if that makes sense. This comment was not barely disguised, but blatant. Perhaps my use of terminology is incorrect there. I clarified it a bit.
The whole post office senior management in this scandal must be brought to face justice for their criminal actions" every one of them.And all assets they have to be frozen and cannot be moved or transferred to there spouses family or off shore that includes pensions all assets.
At last an Honest person. Pol managers lawyers PR people. Time for the Police to start interviewing for prosecutions. Aujuard ,Singh ,Cricthon. Police a team of 80 investigating a REAL CRIME. All those involved should just fess up instead of dragging it out and denying they committed this massive ongoing Crime. The court's will not look kindly on those who continue to obsfuscate. Passports should be confiscated bank accounts put under watch properties investments frozen till the peosecution is finished.
The number of people caught as 'fiddling', all within a short time period, should have raised red flags and prompted a proper investigation. The behaviour of the top PO officials was nothing less than criminal, and they should be treated as such.
To do that would instantly send them (rightfully) to jail. Instead, they pull the "I don't remember" bullsh#t. Let's hope Sir Wynn concludes this in as damning a way as possible, including naming names...and thus empowers the next stage, the criminal prosecutions, with all the tools it needs.
It must be quite scary going in as an accountant and getting intimidated and obfuscated at every turn. It would set off all the alarm bells, but you can't easily pin down the full picture if the firm isn't forthcoming with correct information.
Depends how many are in the funny handshake club, 🤝 because they cover up for each other and run a law separate from British law, allowing them to get away with murder!
@Tracey-zr5do I agree with you. Complex, financial and emotive cases that get to court often fail. Add to this, all the people who may be prosecuted are fantsticly wealthy and can afford the the best defence. Let's look at the Post Office chair, her husband is Jack Straw, her son runs charities and they are up with Labour who will be in government soon - enough said. You mark my words, no one will be successfully prosecuted.
@@martygrimsted4290 Well, I'd really like to believe you but, going on all the other corruption, cover ups and easy liars, let's have this discussion in 12 months time and see if any of those that are truly responsible have indeed been prosecuted and sent to jail, as they should be
Just a thought. Even after this scandal. Just recently was selling counterfeit stamps from their post offices and if you used one you had bought it.from them you are the criminal. Yet they sold you homey goods. Post Office sold a false stamp to you yet you as the innocent customer you were made accountable. Talk about mafia. Disgusting.
Yes, those Judges who jailed these SPM's time after time, not seeing a pattern, have a lot to answer for too. As for the legal teams both inside and subcontracted to the PO, understand that the PO was their 'boss' - it was Vennels & Co who, literally, directed them/wrote their scripts. That doesn't mean they are not guilty, it just means they actively allowed their core ethics to be overridden by the paymaster.
The "Justice system" was the Post Office. These were private prosecutions brought by the Post Office, based on evidence provided by the Post Office, who also withheld contrary evidence from the defence teams of those being prosecuted. The Post Office was the only body that was seeing all of the prosecutions. If a judge is presented with damning manufactured evidence he or she would have no suspicion that anything was wrong. Remember also, that, in a lot of cases the postmasters were convinced to plead guilty in the mistaken belief that this would result in being convicted of a minor offence and not ending up in jail. What the justice system now has to do, is ensure is that those people who perverted the course of justice and knowingly ruined, and in some cases though suicide, even took, the lives of innocent people, just to "protect the Post Office brand", are prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
@@aritaridrive6539 Well said. I do find it very, very hard to believe, however, that judge after judge failed to see a pattern, and thus failed to raise due suspicion. Judges always have the option of the final say!
Totally damning evidence, and totally credible and believable evidence by the second sight people. What a change from the ‘I can’t recall’ and ‘I wasn’t told about this’ nonsense which has gone before.
Cover-up is far too mild a term, for what the Post Office were doing, led by their most senior managers/directors. They aggressively attacked innocent people, causing them bankruptcy, gross humiliation, prison sentences, loss of their homes, and ability to earn in the future. It's pretty hard to imagine a more aggressive employer, who would/has caused more pain and suffering, to literally thousands of their own people, for personal gain.
So glad for all those poor people who are finally being vindicated. Those responsible for this shameful episode must be punished, the British public will not accept anything less.
Horrific what the Post Office did to the post masters. They are going to close the Post Office in Eccleston Street when the lease is up in September. Its the last Post Office in Belgravia. And a petition is going.
I do hope Police are preparing to batter down doors, arrest, charge and take into custody as soon as this enquiry is over and the report hits the streets!
Strange that he COULD recall everything, and after exposing a faulty system was then threatened aggressively with bankruptcy, the very same outcome for the poor postmasters/ mistresses. Let the criminal investigation begin, but how long will this take,...compensation is still miles away.........why is justice so slow?
The managers should be made to pay £100k in compensation to everyone that was wrongfully convicted out of their own pockets and jailed for 20 years and not a single day less.
The problem is, that £100k wouldn't look at some of the losses the SPM's have suffered as a result. Some would be in the millions. When you take into account, not just what was criminally taken from them in cash, but, loss of future earnings, reputational damage, home losses, mental strain, false imprisonment, death.. Then you have the families and children, they lost their reputations, jobs, school places, friends, husbands, wives, life partners, marriages. The fall out from this is almost beyond comprehension.
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I diversified my $50K portfolio across several markets with the help of an investment advisor, and I was able to earn almost $200K in net profit among high dividend yield equities, ETFs, and bonds
Unless these scumbags are held criminally responsible and prosecuted for their deception, this will just be happen again at some point. Justice must be served. You can't have a company send innocent people to prison and have nobody held responsible for it and for there to be no consequences but sadly we all know how it works in this country. Accountability only applies to the ordinary person. Business executives always get away with it. Country is rotten.
Absolutely! ALL the Post Office people paused before answering, or just gave stock, carefully pre-rehearsed answers - either as briefly as possible or with a cloud of word waffle. They appeared bored, superior, and supercilious. They are disgusting. By contrast, these two men answered honestly, directly, straightforwardly, and with authenticity. PUNISH the P.O people
it seems staggering that an independent company thats brought in to reveiw whats happened are made to sign non disclosure agreements, i dont think that a nda will have any weight when vennels and co are put up in front of a judge, lock them up and remove any assets they have and use it to compensate the spms
Aujard's threat should result in, not just professional oblivion, but criminal charges in respect of his threats to the accountants. A very long term of imprisonment should follow.
Anybody who was involved in this cover-up should lose their home like a lot of people did go to jail like a lot of people dead and never be able to work again. It’s an absolute disgrace trying to make it out like the postmaster was robbing the post office.
Total & utter disgrace! Those poor postmasters & postmistresses being crushed under the jackboot of the evil Paula Vennels and her Post Office executives & lawyers. Heads must roll for this! It’s appalling!
Yes,"Please feel sorry for me, I'm a victim of my staff's incompetence, I'm too trusting, too honest AND I've apologise a little." "That's okay Paula, run along now and enjoy spending the millions that you've made while the lives of hundreds of Postmasters plus their families lives have been devastated and some even ended."
What thoroughly decent, principled and tenacious men. Without these two the scandal wouldn’t be where it is now. Yes they didn’t always get things right but they were under such scrutiny from POL’s lawyers always constantly covering their tracks.
I was a qualified accountant and a programmer in a large healthcare software company and I have come across and fixed accounting software that were written by non-accountants who have no concept of double entries whatsoever. Before my involvement, it was a case of 'the blind leading the blind'.
It is some consolation to me that the perpetuators of this scandal are now shitting bricks and having their lives turned upside down, albeit not on the scale of those prosecuted... yet.
Without these TWO MEN, we may never have uncovered this scandal. Bravo gents, you are the epitome of decency and integrity!
Give them a gong
And don’t forget Private Eye has been reporting this for years
@@allenp920 quite right
@@allenp920 Absolutely right, the PO lawyers didn't dare go after them, I wonder why.
@@allenp920 The BBC Radio 4 also had a programme split over 5 days, with a summary and a catch up a couple of years later.
No amnesia from these two gentlemen , immediate clear articulate and honest answers ..how refreshing after the PO teams bumbling attempts to pass the buck and deny knowing anything that could incriminate them ..
They have been preparing for this for years! It was only their non-disclosure agreement that prevented them from reporting, as they done, earlier. Legislation is needed to allow disclosure of such info, overriding NDAs, where it relates to criminal activity or prosecutions.
@@rosssimpson6268you already can override an NDA if there is reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
Strange , when telling the truth it appears memory is good.
What a contrast, sharp memories, concise answers, No Tears
exactly.
Telling the truth is far, far easier than trying to maintain a lie.
@@geoffmesser5091 Absolutely, except for the narcissists of the post office who know no other way of being than to lie, lie and lie.
Yes, unlike many others they came across as honest, reliable and truthful
You don't have to defend the truth
Finally. Glad to see the gentleman testifying.
Paula Vennels and those around her as directors must see jail time.
unfortunately they likely will get off scott free.
Hopefully many years of jail time and claw back their salaries and bonuses.
I do believe the police have the power to confiscate the assets of criminals, the objective being, of course, that crime doesn't pay. So if Paula Vennels is convicted, all the money she made can be confiscated by the police, even her property or properties especially if bought with the proceeds of her crime. She'll leave prison penniless and homeless.
Pass a law making being Paula Vennells a crime.
Voila Simon Paul Addley and Julie Bates/Woods
If Vennells and her cohorts are NOT imprisoned then there something very wrong going on.
Women get special treatment in the criminal justice system.
Nothing will happen to them.
The elite always protects their own they may throw Vennells under the bus ut that may be sboutvit
Absolutely.
There WONT be, and there stil is. ..
no pregnant pauses... no word soup... no bullshit... just the truth...
finally.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Meanwhile, in the real world, pigs can fly!
Complicity is a cancer. It eats away at its victims.
They want to liquidate it for cash and leave the culprits alone
When you have nothing to hide it becomes easier to know what you can say.
Any investigation of the Head of Legal who allegedly threatened Ian Henderson?
It's funny there was not a moment when they said "I don't remember" unlike the POL!!
Well, if you watch the full evidence, they did actually say that sometimes! But it was believable, & accompanied by the fullest info they could give.
I think that for these two accountants, the issue was really important, and they never forgot, while Vennells and Co worked hard at not remembering...
FJ CEO today - "I don't know" repeatedly as to why he didn't know.
Brave, honest and highly competent men.
The inquiry lawyer is an absolute delight at getting to the crux of the issues.
There's 5 or 6 of them, all very good but Jason Beer is clearly top dog.
Might need to build a new prison just for Post Office senior management
I suspect with the way things have gone new prisons in general may be necessary but I do agree that the Post Office management from the time should probably be at the front of the queue.
5 large rocks a day service ?
It would do them good to share overcrowding in a normal prison.
On the other hand, prison inmates are very unpleasant with this type of person, and maybe Vennell and Co will need protection. How the mighty are falling.
And all there lawyers as well they all knew .
Do they still sew mailbag?😂
Now the Water Companies.
Now SIR ED DAVIES the muppet who turned a blind eye to it all
This is not over yet I’m afraid
Jail time for several of the P.O. Officials who knew what was happening.
And lawyers...
@@alberttickle1106 Several???? Shurely shome mishtake.....more like several dozen, at least!
For sure , but we know that we’ll never happen ! 😢😢😢
AND ED DAVEY who was in charge of the Post Office in Parliament at the time
@@alberttickle1106 Andy Parsons especially!
"The largest injustice in British history". Wow, that is a high bar.
Is it though?
Between 1999 and 2015, more than 900 subpostmasters were convicted of theft, fraud and false accounting based on faulty Horizon data, with about 700 of these prosecutions carried out by the Post Office. Other subpostmasters were prosecuted but not convicted, forced to cover shortfalls caused by Horizon with their own money, or had their contracts terminated. The court cases, criminal convictions, imprisonments, loss of livelihoods and homes, debts, and bankruptcies led to stress, illness, family breakdowns and at least four suicides.
I will Never trust the P.O. again .🤬
@@WearertheRESISTENCEdon’t blame the people who run your local Post Office though - the sub postmasters.
@@pat4brown . The top managers l meant.
Chris Aujard is nothing more than a total bully making such threats, if there is any justice in the UK (which I very much doubt), he should spend the rest of his days in prison.
The police are incompetent, corrupt and part of the problem. Their investigation’ will take years. Charging and bringing cases to court will take years. Those charged will be those PO throw under the bus. Then there’ll be the appeals. Miscarriage of justice? It’s how it perfectly works for the establishment.
He won't. The rich rarely suffer any consequences. Even in the vanishingly rare occasion they do they go to an easy open prison.
Sadly, this is not the tariff that goes with being a bully and making that sort of threat, but there is a tariff and I hope he gets the maximum.
@@annepoitrineau5650 There must be a case of "perverting the course of justice" in which case the maximum penalty is life in prison.
@@macroman54 I fear that his lawyers would be able to get him indicted for a lesser crime. Tbf, I do not think they should get life, but a 20 years tariff with at least 10 years inside would be well-deserved.
Any convictions over this, and found guilty, should not paid for by the taxpayers. Those convicted should pay compensation to the victims. Surely this is proceeds of crime.
I wouldn't care if they are left begging on streets.
Agreed. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown knew. They should be first to jail and have their assets stripped along with all the other Labour and Conservative politicians and their snivel servants. All we get is one scandal after another with Labour and Conservative.
Wow! This refreshingly honest testimony! What a contrast to months of so many lies, deflections and “memory lapses”.
These two men represent everything that is right about the world. Brave men!
There are good people thank God.
The Met Police need to get off their butts and get on with criminal proceedings. If they don’t then the Met Commissioner needs to be fired and replaced with someone with backbone. The Met is quite happy to prosecute the little people but shown to be biased when it comes to the big wigs.
When the Met Commissioner knows and is friendly with PO management, like Paula Vennels, I doubt anything will happen. The fact there hasn't been a peep out of the Met over the biggest miscarriage of justice in British history speaks volumes.
The Metropolitan Police is full of masons and I bet so is the PO. They will protect their own.
Its not up to the Police , i's up to the CPS.
@@taffman1 Thats the problem...Met Police not squeaky clean either and may assist these criminals to avoid justice ...
they our political police to busy protecting the leftist agenda
Goodness, gracious me! Somebody whose memory hasn’t failed, and someone who can give immediate direct and simple answers to questions!
Because he is not going to be prosecuted like the POL idiots.
Ron and Ian: thank you so much for your courage, integrity, and indefatigable persistence. You are both heroes and ensured that the real truth would emerge despite everything thrown against you.🎉❤
So when will the real criminals go to prison ?
Never they are protected by the old boys network
Don’t hold your breath there to busy blaming each other’ 😧😧
I'd like to see Mr Henderson and his colleagues be given police protection until they have given evidence in court, some people in POL have a lot to loose
They need protection, otherwise they'll end up like the Boeing whistleblowers.
Or lose ?
Ian henderson ex sas
@@bodger97 Doesn't mean squat. He's an old man now. Being ex-SAS doesn't mean you can stop a bullet with your teeth. He needs protection. There is no telling what Vennells can still do.
@@SarahMulvey-yj7tw Surely not! She's a Woman of God don't you know!? A favourite of Justin Welby who had this vile creature lined up for the Bishop of London position!
Ron Warmington and Ian Henderson need to be recognised for the work that they have done to uphold justice, and to seek the truth, despite the threats of the POL team. They need to be given honours to reflect their virtue and grit, qualities which are sadly lacking in so many today.
And of course Second Sight became a nuisance and had to be sacked. There was at least one whistleblower, an IT specialist at Horizon who had also tried to get the message out about the fact that the Horizon system wasn't fit for purpose. He got the sack even more quickly.
@@franc9111 Give him a reward too.
Those involved in the cover up need to be jailed and stripped of their assets.
How did the courts not notice that an unusually high number of subpostmasters were getting prosecuted for the same thing and not stop to think why? It makes the courts look embarrassing, they should have the cleverest of society in its buildings.
They only care about their personal monthly earnings. Nothing more.
The judiciary cannot be blamed given the circumstances. POL got away for so long with the lie that Horizon was faultless that all three Establishment pillars believed there was 'nothing to see here' until the damage had been done. ["After all, for as long as there's been post offices there's always a few postmasters putting their hands in the till, so what better to catch more of them than a wonderful computer system?" Something like that....]
Watching these 2 answer Jason Beers questions was a display of hyper competency on all sides
Unlike the murderous incompetence of Post Office Limited.
Yes, and you can see why this would rattle those wielding power with chaos. Having caused misery for the sub post office masters and mistresses (some driven to suicide) they would not think twice about threatening these two men with legal ruin through forced bankruptcy...and all with public money to play with. I wonder how THEY slept last night.
@@mary-y8x8h I expect the honourable two slept like babies. The Post Office Pillocks, being devoid of shame, will also have slept extremely well.
@@philhart4849 Agree!
Beer QC whilst probing effectively has not yet gone for the jugular.
They were VERY impressive.
They were impressive, very impressive, but that is because they were telling the truth, and not having to remember the coaching their legal teams had given them.
I would trust these two wonderful guys with my life!
Thank you to the gents. The managers should go to prison , be stripped of pensions and their assets . Shame on them ! That’s why Paula Vennels was crying. Caught out!
This Inquiry has highlighted some of the massive structural problems with UK
That the Establishment rules the roost !
Great to see Ian proudly wearing his Veterans badge. While giving evidence, Well done.👍🏻
If you had even one scintilla of doubt about the collective guilt of the parade of rogues shuffling through the Inquiry corridors, (clearly suffering from dementia and recall deficit) who cried and lied their way through their 'evidence', then listening to these two guys give their evidence is a real treat. They were the opposite. Clear, concise, no spin though spitting feathers (quite rightly) about the way they were given the run around by this viperous bunch . Give them both gongs!
How many of those responsible will face a criminal trial and prison? The inquiry is theatre to appease the masses. Laws are for the little people.
Same old story ,ignore it for over a decade then nobody goes to prison.
I am afraid you are correct !
I feel the major players WILL end up with custodial sentences . Not least because we will have a new government soon ( be it Labour or Tory ) and would think this would be a great start for them in making that a reality ! Much kudos !
Remember “yes prime minister “ Humphrey; you never start inquiries unless you know the outcome. It is a theatre. Should have gone straight to criminal prosecution. There was/is enough evidence. Same with judges, they all played into PO interest
This is a horror story my heart goes out to all those affected and who have lost so much.
There is hope. There is hope for justice if it’s making it to court and make it to public TV.
So sad for those lives ruined and the ones who are no longer with us. I’m in the US and I think about those precious souls lost, I think about them often as more news breaks. So sad.
All we need now is TV programs about the PPE scandal and hope for some arrests of the individuals responsible.
For everyone's sake make sure you guys do the same with the Wannabe dictator 🤡 and his power base. He's already cost lives your
side and ours the side of the pond. We've had a lot of experience dealing with self glorifying back stabbing pocket lining idiots.... but it's like a game of whack a mole... and If you don't deal with them they all start popping up and playing their ... Silly beggars leadership games and hurting ordinary people. Whilst covering up the fact that they are fundamentally clueless.🙄🧙🏻♂️
Shocking to hear this forensic accountant’s evidence and it highlights how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Seems like privatizing the postal service was a mistake.
They sold it off cheap
The post office isn’t privatised, it’s fully owned by the government
Royal Mail was privatised, with the usual results.@@sophieday2912
Yeah is this a government scandal or a private business scandal? (I’m an American fascinated with this story)
@@sophieday2912 however, 99% of Post Office branches are independent franchises
That threat at 4:35 is not what I would consider “thinly veiled”. Flat out blatant.
Thinly veiled would mean blatant, so you are saying the threat was not blatant ?
Sorry- Yank here. “Thinly veiled” to me is “barely disguised” - if that makes sense. This comment was not barely disguised, but blatant. Perhaps my use of terminology is incorrect there. I clarified it a bit.
@@kittyhinkle3739 Actually I think you are right. If it's blatant it's not veiled at all, unless perhaps the term is being used ironically.
@@annphillips1086thanks! It doesn’t sound to me like irony was even in the neighborhood.
@@kittyhinkle3739 I agree. It was more like good old British understatement.
The whole post office senior management in this scandal must be brought to face justice for their criminal actions" every one of them.And all assets they have to be frozen and cannot be moved or transferred to there spouses family or off shore that includes pensions all assets.
We need criminal prosecutions and we need them now! Enough of this! A lot of people deserve justice!
How deeply corrupt this country has become...This is just the tip. The power companies, water , banking , the city. I could cry 😢
SERCO....
We all cry while they laugh all the way to the bank with their ill gotten gains!
500 of them ! Please don’t tell me the PO didn’t know about it ? The PO was informed by phone and emails ! Jail time required 😡👍👍
100% FACT
We need to take all the assets of these folk to pay for their prosecution.
At last an Honest person.
Pol managers lawyers PR people.
Time for the Police to start interviewing for prosecutions.
Aujuard ,Singh ,Cricthon.
Police a team of 80 investigating a REAL CRIME.
All those involved should just fess up instead of dragging it out and denying they committed this massive ongoing Crime.
The court's will not look kindly on those who continue to obsfuscate.
Passports should be confiscated bank accounts put under watch properties investments frozen till the peosecution is finished.
Passports seized definitely - one has already fled to Oz..
Jason for a Knighthood
He would certainly deserve one more than dullard Davey snake Starmer.
The number of people caught as 'fiddling', all within a short time period, should have raised red flags and prompted a proper investigation. The behaviour of the top PO officials was nothing less than criminal, and they should be treated as such.
Even know with all this evidence paula and her band of merry men still wont do the right thing and admit whats gone on .and they never will .
To do that would instantly send them (rightfully) to jail. Instead, they pull the "I don't remember" bullsh#t. Let's hope Sir Wynn concludes this in as damning a way as possible, including naming names...and thus empowers the next stage, the criminal prosecutions, with all the tools it needs.
It must be quite scary going in as an accountant and getting intimidated and obfuscated at every turn. It would set off all the alarm bells, but you can't easily pin down the full picture if the firm isn't forthcoming with correct information.
Don't hold your breath for any police action.
No one will be successfully prosecuted over this.
Stephen Lawrence R.I.P.
Yes they will
Depends how many are in the funny handshake club, 🤝 because they cover up for each other and run a law separate from British law, allowing them to get away with murder!
@Tracey-zr5do I agree with you.
Complex, financial and emotive cases that get to court often fail.
Add to this, all the people who may be prosecuted are fantsticly wealthy and can afford the the best defence.
Let's look at the Post Office chair, her husband is Jack Straw, her son runs charities and they are up with Labour who will be in government soon - enough said.
You mark my words, no one will be successfully prosecuted.
@@martygrimsted4290 Well, I'd really like to believe you but, going on all the other corruption, cover ups and easy liars, let's have this discussion in 12 months time and see if any of those that are truly responsible have indeed been prosecuted and sent to jail, as they should be
Prepare the jail cells!
Just a thought. Even after this scandal. Just recently was selling counterfeit stamps from their post offices and if you used one you had bought it.from them you are the criminal. Yet they sold you homey goods. Post Office sold a false stamp to you yet you as the innocent customer you were made accountable. Talk about mafia. Disgusting.
The justice system should account for their conduct and not pass all the blame onto the PO.
Yes, those Judges who jailed these SPM's time after time, not seeing a pattern, have a lot to answer for too.
As for the legal teams both inside and subcontracted to the PO, understand that the PO was their 'boss' - it was Vennels & Co who, literally, directed them/wrote their scripts. That doesn't mean they are not guilty, it just means they actively allowed their core ethics to be overridden by the paymaster.
@@ChrisM541Some "core ethics", some integrity.
The "Justice system" was the Post Office. These were private prosecutions brought by the Post Office, based on evidence provided by the Post Office, who also withheld contrary evidence from the defence teams of those being prosecuted. The Post Office was the only body that was seeing all of the prosecutions. If a judge is presented with damning manufactured evidence he or she would have no suspicion that anything was wrong. Remember also, that, in a lot of cases the postmasters were convinced to plead guilty in the mistaken belief that this would result in being convicted of a minor offence and not ending up in jail. What the justice system now has to do, is ensure is that those people who perverted the course of justice and knowingly ruined, and in some cases though suicide, even took, the lives of innocent people, just to "protect the Post Office brand", are prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
@@aritaridrive6539 Well said. I do find it very, very hard to believe, however, that judge after judge failed to see a pattern, and thus failed to raise due suspicion. Judges always have the option of the final say!
Totally damning evidence, and totally credible and believable evidence by the second sight people. What a change from the ‘I can’t recall’ and ‘I wasn’t told about this’ nonsense which has gone before.
Aujard needs to be investigated, why does he threaten when he knows, he Knows there was no wrong doing by the postmasters.????
Police totally now *forced* into stop protecting the establishment .
Typical of 'Management'.
The fact they KNEW they were innocent and still destroyed their lives....absolute monsters.
Cover-up is far too mild a term, for what the Post Office were doing, led by their most senior managers/directors.
They aggressively attacked innocent people, causing them bankruptcy, gross humiliation, prison sentences, loss of their homes, and ability to earn in the future.
It's pretty hard to imagine a more aggressive employer, who would/has caused more pain and suffering, to literally thousands of their own people, for personal gain.
It's a money war by
the
*war-machiners*
💥💥💥💥💥💥
💉💉💉💉💉💉
So glad for all those poor people who are finally being vindicated. Those responsible for this shameful episode must be punished, the British public will not accept anything less.
Jail time for every single one of them who were involved in this cover-up🤬
Two heroes! But maybe particular praise to Ian Henderson. I note the tie he is wearing is the regimental badge of the Special Air Service (SAS).
Horrific what the Post Office did to the post masters.
They are going to close the Post Office in Eccleston Street when the lease is up in September. Its the last Post Office in Belgravia. And a petition is going.
I do hope Police are preparing to batter down doors, arrest, charge and take into custody as soon as this enquiry is over and the report hits the streets!
If it can be proved that Aujard made a threat like that then that may be blackmail.
maybe?
@@liondave1 Sure, it would have to be proved in court.
@@TankEnMate I hear you, these people have very deep pockets￡￡￡￡￡￡
Strange that he COULD recall everything, and after exposing a faulty system was then threatened aggressively with bankruptcy, the very same outcome for the poor postmasters/ mistresses. Let the criminal investigation begin, but how long will this take,...compensation is still miles away.........why is justice so slow?
The managers should be made to pay £100k in compensation to everyone that was wrongfully convicted out of their own pockets and jailed for 20 years and not a single day less.
The problem is, that £100k wouldn't look at some of the losses the SPM's have suffered as a result. Some would be in the millions. When you take into account, not just what was criminally taken from them in cash, but, loss of future earnings, reputational damage, home losses, mental strain, false imprisonment, death..
Then you have the families and children, they lost their reputations, jobs, school places, friends, husbands, wives, life partners, marriages.
The fall out from this is almost beyond comprehension.
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How did you manage to succeed? I want to invest more wisely because I have a lump sum that inflation is slowly depleting.
I diversified my $50K portfolio across several markets with the help of an investment advisor, and I was able to earn almost $200K in net profit among high dividend yield equities, ETFs, and bonds
'Leah Foster Alderman'
You can simply search her up.
😂
Unless these scumbags are held criminally responsible and prosecuted for their deception, this will just be happen again at some point. Justice must be served. You can't have a company send innocent people to prison and have nobody held responsible for it and for there to be no consequences but sadly we all know how it works in this country. Accountability only applies to the ordinary person. Business executives always get away with it. Country is rotten.
to the very core
It fills me with hope and optimism to know that there are still good people in the world who are brave enough to stand up for what is right.
NOT called in by the Post Office - called in by the MP’s
There must be prosecutions over this. Along with considerable jail time for the guilty - of which there are many.
Not there yet. The political protectors, HM Treasury and Civil Service behind Henry Staunton's departure show in-depth manipulation.
Paula was PROTECTING her multi-million pound salary not just the POL. 😛😝....
The original judge who prosecuted this also needs to be looked at…. It all stinks….. prison ….nothing else is acceptable
Absolutely! ALL the Post Office people paused before answering, or just gave stock, carefully pre-rehearsed answers - either as briefly as possible or with a cloud of word waffle. They appeared bored, superior, and supercilious. They are disgusting. By contrast, these two men answered honestly, directly, straightforwardly, and with authenticity. PUNISH the P.O people
And into whose pockets has the ‘missing’ money gone that was subsequently replaced by innocent postmasters and mistresses.
PO bonuses I would guess
it seems staggering that an independent company thats brought in to reveiw whats happened are
made to sign non disclosure agreements, i dont think that a nda will have any weight when vennels
and co are put up in front of a judge, lock them up and remove any assets they have and use it to
compensate the spms
Aujard's threat should result in, not just professional oblivion, but criminal charges in respect of his threats to the accountants. A very long term of imprisonment should follow.
2 really sincere guys
Iv heard Tony Blair knew this system had faults but he just let these people take the blame So shocking.
🎯
Yes!
Nephelum Blair
war-machiner
that walked straight to millions💰💷💰💷💰💷
INSTEAD OF JAIL.
When are the managers going to be jailed?
Paula and the other "directors" should have prison time and be sued by all involve personally for every penny they have.
A righteous accountant.. who'd have thought it.? All praise to them and vengeance against those who harmed so many ...
There can now be no excuse for prosecuting past Post Office executives for perjury.
SHAME ON THE POST OFFICE and those who tried to cover this up. they should be SUED for millions personally and the PO.
JUSTICE for the Postmasters!!!
The really frightening thing is how many government contract pies Fujitsu still has its incompetent fingers in. What a bananas monarchy we live in.
Anybody who was involved in this cover-up should lose their home like a lot of people did go to jail like a lot of people dead and never be able to work again. It’s an absolute disgrace trying to make it out like the postmaster was robbing the post office.
Total & utter disgrace! Those poor postmasters & postmistresses being crushed under the jackboot of the evil Paula Vennels and her Post Office executives & lawyers. Heads must roll for this! It’s appalling!
These two are brilliant. Absolute heroes.
Hurrah!
Any manager in the Post Office who is found to know that there was a problem should go to prison.
Is it not incumbent on the state to jail these fraudulent bad actors at the post office
But Paula cried repeatedly and is a woman so she should not be held to account.
Yes,"Please feel sorry for me, I'm a victim of my staff's incompetence, I'm too trusting, too honest AND I've apologise a little." "That's okay Paula, run along now and enjoy spending the millions that you've made while the lives of hundreds of Postmasters plus their families lives have been devastated and some even ended."
Poor thing, SHE GOT CAUGHT.
What thoroughly decent, principled and tenacious men. Without these two the scandal wouldn’t be where it is now. Yes they didn’t always get things right but they were under such scrutiny from POL’s lawyers always constantly covering their tracks.
I was a qualified accountant and a programmer in a large healthcare software company and I have come across and fixed accounting software that were written by non-accountants who have no concept of double entries whatsoever. Before my involvement, it was a case of 'the blind leading the blind'.
For heaven's sake,double entry is basic common sense. I learned about when I was at school which is many years ago now.
Great to hear some truths from these gentlemen 👍
Bates deserves an MBE/OBE for his years of toil and Vennells should be locked up. Theres zero excuse for any of this
He refused the OBE he was offered and just accepted a knighthood.
NEVER THOUGHT i'D BE CLAPPING ACCOUNTANTS BUT THESE TWO NAILED IT!
It is some consolation to me that the perpetuators of this scandal are now shitting bricks and having their lives turned upside down, albeit not on the scale of those prosecuted... yet.