Echoing Truth is an answer to the token deck. They think about how the 4 decks play against each other out of the box. Still bad, but that has to be why.
cedh is very much different from regular commander. It’s a fine removal spell but we aren’t fans of it when you have black and green which have better spot removal in general
Yeah, I completely agree with how the side commanders should have to fit in the deck a bit more. Or at the very least be different ways to play morph. Instead they just feel like bonus cards, 1 of 99 kind of cards, or outright just better fit as a commander completely elsewhere. I feel that this problem is present in all of this year's commander decks.
Holy shit! It could be coincidence that in your last video I suggested you guys should do videos like this but either way I feel appreciated as a viewer😁. Love yall & keep up the great content Edit: I just went back to the previous video and saw the comment you guys made... I still feel very appreciated😁
As others have mentioned, it's a token exclusive boardwipe. It's not awful, but an okay card to take out. But y'all were like why would they put this in and went on about it for too long. Thran Dynamo is pretty good in the deck because it pays for an entire morph by itself. You're not always going to have your commander (people will remove it ASAP) so you need a lot of Mana in the deck. But again, you said it was dumb. Leadership vacuum is removal for other commanders and protection for your own, so again not awful
The problem we have with Echoing Truth is that it's a total blank when there could have been a better/more fun/interesting card in its place. Primal Genesis is the best deck, but that doesn't mean you need silver bullets for one or two tokens it might make, and maybe it wouldn't be the best deck if the other decks didn't have cards like echoing truth lol. Thran Dynamo will always be fine, we just think green decks don't need it, as they ramp on a much more efficient axis by putting lands straight into play. We understand the "free morph" is tempting, but it's just not needed. "Dumb" is probably hyperbolic, but I think we were talking about the mentality behind including it. Leadership Vacuum we just kinda cut from any deck it was in, since none of these decks seem to want/need that effect. Hopefully this could clarify a bit!
@@NitpickingNerds yeah I can agree with most of that. I just thought the evaluation of those cards were harsh. The other thing about silver bullet cards like that is the implied political advantage. You get to wipe a problematic boardstate without drawing the ire of anyone else at the table and also without impacting your own. I think that this deck was intended to be a little political based on cards like tempt with Discovery and that one amulet that comes in under an opponent's control. Tl;dr: it's worth swapping out for a better boardwipe, but it's not like it was an oversight by WOTC or an entirely awful include. I agree that the ramp could be better for sure, and Kodama's reach is an easy include, but I wouldn't take out thran Dynamo when I could tap four, play a morph, and then untap with 7 Mana (potentially on each opponent's turn) Also it's cool that y'all actually engaged with my criticism!
We try to respond to every comment, until we’re big enough to be physically unable to! Plus, it gives us a chance to defend our beliefs or admit if we made a mistake. We can be a little overzealous about criticisms at times, but that just means we’ve said it A LOT in the past 😂
So here are the cards you mentioned that I'm interested in for different decks: A Lovecraftian themed deck that I've been working on: - Unblinking Bleb - Mischievous Quanar - Brine Elemental For a Zombie Graveyard deck (or any creature focused graveyard deck): - Heartless Summoning For stuff, not sure where yet: - Leyline of Anticipation - Evacuation
Before watching the video or checking the deck list I'm going to guess that Scornful Egoist does make the roster. Edit: WHAT! This must be an oversight
I feel like reality shift is really good. It can exile. Not just destroy Maybe if u didn't have access to black and green for removal, it would be a more viable option
"Echoing Truth" is for dealing with go wide token decks. You can use the white one that exiles at sorcery speed, or the black one at sorcery speed that costs 4. But a sorcery is far less efficient. If you don't have token decks in your meta, or only run decks with "Rakdos Charm" in them, I'll give you a pass, but otherwise, please tell me a better anti token spell.
I'm mostly interested in the Merciless Rage madness deck, but I guess I'll still watch this to see if there's some cards you suggest that I could use elsewhere, and to see if you have anything to see when comparing the four commander decks. I'm still not sure how they'd compare to each other.
Echoing truth is a token board wipe. Lol its not for your own stuff...... Maybe not that good in these sets but I like them... People never see them coming ... Thats a nice 50+ goblin token army you got there, be a shame if I bounced them. I mean it is instant speed and cheaper than some of the more common "better" board clears out there but eh.
Echoing truth helped me against the populate deck by removing all the rhino tokens... considering these decks would likely be played against each other I don’t think the card was an absolute whiff
I hope they plan on printing some new morph stuff in the future sets to make Kadena open up a little more. Otherwise everyone will just be playing the same deck lol
"only" 50$. I hate EDH decks over 100$ because at this point it really just pay to win, and what's even worse they ALL run the more or less the same cards, at least when it comes to the manabase and card drawing. I really love the idea of limiting yourself , not only does it make for a more challenging and fun experience when it comes to playing, but it also forces you to be creative in creating your deck and maybe choosing tier 3 or 4 cards that do similar things than the 100$ cards. Plus it allows new people to join and have fun. I mean there is a time and a place for 10.000$ decks but I'd choose a 50$ EDH over the other one anytime
These precons were pretty disappointing and confusing to us overall. We tried to focus mostly on upgrading these decks which was super fun to do, but to explain why something was cut from the deck usually had to amount to “this doesn’t synergize at all and we’re not sure why it’s in here”
Echoing Truth is an answer to the token deck. They think about how the 4 decks play against each other out of the box. Still bad, but that has to be why.
That was our other thought, and also makes us sad that it’s not just Aetherize or something!
Just like to add to my point that I played a game with the precon and bouncing 37 flying horses from the flashback deck is also a reason for it. :)
i use it to bounce something to my hand to save it or recast a morph...
Reality shift is really good do not remove it, it is cedh playable
cedh is very much different from regular commander. It’s a fine removal spell but we aren’t fans of it when you have black and green which have better spot removal in general
Echoing truth was for the token deck. My friend had 12 rhinos and I echoed them all away
You are a mean person
Deserved lol
yep I did the same :P
I sent back about 10,000 goblins with it because my friend was using a krenko mob boss deck
Wow! What a throwback. Greetings from the future! (2023)
Yeah, I completely agree with how the side commanders should have to fit in the deck a bit more. Or at the very least be different ways to play morph. Instead they just feel like bonus cards, 1 of 99 kind of cards, or outright just better fit as a commander completely elsewhere.
I feel that this problem is present in all of this year's commander decks.
Morph is still a small "tribe", so If they make three commanders that only work with morph it'd be hard to create new decks with them.
Great work guys . I can not wait for you to cover the madness deck. I have gotten a lot of card for that deck. Tribe scout out. See ya!
Excited to try this out. Thanks for the great content
Aphetto Runecaster. Absolutely, 100% pronounced Afetto.
Y’all are getting better and better with every video 🤙🏻
We are trying to get worse! How is this happening? Lol
Echoing Truth is for bouncing all those populated tokens.
And I really like the new Ugin in my Morph deck.
Got 'em!
Excellent content gentlemen! Never been disappointed in a video :)
Thank you, we appreciate the kind words! We look forward to repeatedly not disappointing you in the future
@@NitpickingNerds I apologize for the poor wording, what I should have said was thank you for always content appropriate for the subject/title.
Oh we weren’t critiquing your wording by any means, just being dumb :D but however you say it we still love feedback!
Holy shit! It could be coincidence that in your last video I suggested you guys should do videos like this but either way I feel appreciated as a viewer😁. Love yall & keep up the great content
Edit: I just went back to the previous video and saw the comment you guys made... I still feel very appreciated😁
You had a perfect suggestion! We are on the same wave length
Really appreciate the perspective. Enjoyed it.
Just know that i hit the like button before i watch. Keep up the great work.
As others have mentioned, it's a token exclusive boardwipe. It's not awful, but an okay card to take out. But y'all were like why would they put this in and went on about it for too long.
Thran Dynamo is pretty good in the deck because it pays for an entire morph by itself. You're not always going to have your commander (people will remove it ASAP) so you need a lot of Mana in the deck. But again, you said it was dumb.
Leadership vacuum is removal for other commanders and protection for your own, so again not awful
The problem we have with Echoing Truth is that it's a total blank when there could have been a better/more fun/interesting card in its place. Primal Genesis is the best deck, but that doesn't mean you need silver bullets for one or two tokens it might make, and maybe it wouldn't be the best deck if the other decks didn't have cards like echoing truth lol. Thran Dynamo will always be fine, we just think green decks don't need it, as they ramp on a much more efficient axis by putting lands straight into play. We understand the "free morph" is tempting, but it's just not needed. "Dumb" is probably hyperbolic, but I think we were talking about the mentality behind including it. Leadership Vacuum we just kinda cut from any deck it was in, since none of these decks seem to want/need that effect. Hopefully this could clarify a bit!
@@NitpickingNerds yeah I can agree with most of that. I just thought the evaluation of those cards were harsh.
The other thing about silver bullet cards like that is the implied political advantage. You get to wipe a problematic boardstate without drawing the ire of anyone else at the table and also without impacting your own. I think that this deck was intended to be a little political based on cards like tempt with Discovery and that one amulet that comes in under an opponent's control. Tl;dr: it's worth swapping out for a better boardwipe, but it's not like it was an oversight by WOTC or an entirely awful include.
I agree that the ramp could be better for sure, and Kodama's reach is an easy include, but I wouldn't take out thran Dynamo when I could tap four, play a morph, and then untap with 7 Mana (potentially on each opponent's turn)
Also it's cool that y'all actually engaged with my criticism!
We try to respond to every comment, until we’re big enough to be physically unable to! Plus, it gives us a chance to defend our beliefs or admit if we made a mistake. We can be a little overzealous about criticisms at times, but that just means we’ve said it A LOT in the past 😂
Reality Shift is good since Sultai has very limited access to exile removal at an efficient cost.
Id love to see these guys on game knights
We would totally crush those guys 👊
Two-headed Giant!!
Bring them over here 😂
So here are the cards you mentioned that I'm interested in for different decks:
A Lovecraftian themed deck that I've been working on:
- Unblinking Bleb
- Mischievous Quanar
- Brine Elemental
For a Zombie Graveyard deck (or any creature focused graveyard deck):
- Heartless Summoning
For stuff, not sure where yet:
- Leyline of Anticipation
- Evacuation
I mean who doesn't like a bleb
Could echoing truth be efficient against tokens?
Wouldn't it be better to put the signets on this deck?
Damn, that Echoing Truth fail. Hahaha.
Before watching the video or checking the deck list I'm going to guess that Scornful Egoist does make the roster.
Edit: WHAT! This must be an oversight
Damn, and I have 43
Scornful Egotist alters I was trying to sell.
@@moxavenger I guess preparing 44 alt arts would have just been reckless
@@crovax1375 Just keeping it under control.
I enjoyed being loved without feeling uncomfortable thanks guys 😂
No love you to the point of uncomfortability.
All the Godzilla morphs have a copy with the same name?
I feel like reality shift is really good. It can exile. Not just destroy
Maybe if u didn't have access to black and green for removal, it would be a more viable option
It’s a very good card, we just think it’s unnecessary in Sultai is all
Thran dynamo is a free morph each turn without tapping out lands
"Echoing Truth" is for dealing with go wide token decks. You can use the white one that exiles at sorcery speed, or the black one at sorcery speed that costs 4. But a sorcery is far less efficient.
If you don't have token decks in your meta, or only run decks with "Rakdos Charm" in them, I'll give you a pass, but otherwise, please tell me a better anti token spell.
Hmm, I don't have a Craterhoof Behemoth... but this Finale of Devastation laying around doing nothing. Muahahahahahaha! Get in here!
I'm mostly interested in the Merciless Rage madness deck, but I guess I'll still watch this to see if there's some cards you suggest that I could use elsewhere, and to see if you have anything to see when comparing the four commander decks. I'm still not sure how they'd compare to each other.
No Mystic Forge? Unless that was just outside the budget?
I don’t think Mystic Forge works with morphs unless we are mistaken. But if it did it seems a little too clunky for the deck
Echoing truth is a token board wipe. Lol its not for your own stuff...... Maybe not that good in these sets but I like them... People never see them coming ... Thats a nice 50+ goblin token army you got there, be a shame if I bounced them. I mean it is instant speed and cheaper than some of the more common "better" board clears out there but eh.
Echoing truth helped me against the populate deck by removing all the rhino tokens... considering these decks would likely be played against each other I don’t think the card was an absolute whiff
I hope they plan on printing some new morph stuff in the future sets to make Kadena open up a little more. Otherwise everyone will just be playing the same deck lol
The core of the deck does feel very one dimensional!
8:59 the morph cards are names, it’s the word “morph” plus the number after it is the name of the creature
We had verified the rules and don’t believe this is true, what is your source?
"Primordial mist is like no dollars" costs 10.30 on TCG. You can't find a seller priced at less than 6 plus shipping.
It went up since the recording of this video is all, it’s been a couple weeks
echoing truths is likely for other players tokens
Are you guys roommates now? Love your content!
Aaron Unboxed yes me and Beezy are roommates
hey so I noticed my name it the video when will i get the discord link
If you’re a Patron we sent it to you on Patreon messenger :D
"only" 50$. I hate EDH decks over 100$ because at this point it really just pay to win, and what's even worse they ALL run the more or less the same cards, at least when it comes to the manabase and card drawing. I really love the idea of limiting yourself , not only does it make for a more challenging and fun experience when it comes to playing, but it also forces you to be creative in creating your deck and maybe choosing tier 3 or 4 cards that do similar things than the 100$ cards. Plus it allows new people to join and have fun. I mean there is a time and a place for 10.000$ decks but I'd choose a 50$ EDH over the other one anytime
Bob Dole how dare people play good cards that are expensive because they are good! Pay to win spikes amirite?
@@parkerstockett7609 Great Job of not getting the point
I think it's pronounced Aphetto.
Judge Aphetto
Echoing truth is an answer to token decks. Obviously...
🦑
I get the name of the channel is the nitpicking nerds but the amount of senseless complaining made the video really unpleasant to watch
These precons were pretty disappointing and confusing to us overall. We tried to focus mostly on upgrading these decks which was super fun to do, but to explain why something was cut from the deck usually had to amount to “this doesn’t synergize at all and we’re not sure why it’s in here”