Dude, you made a terrifying realization, once you buy a Porsche , that's all you want. i swear, every time i get in my Cayman, i want that feeling in an everyday car.
The addiction is real! I had a cayman 981 2.7 but moved on to a BMW M4 Competition and whilst that is a beautiful car I’ve just put a deposit on a Cayman 718 GTS. Can’t wait to get back behind that Porsche crested steering wheel. Keep up the good work! 👍
I had the 2.7 , partly because I thought it would be cheaper to run and lower powered cars tend to be less stressed. It was enough for me and was very happy with it. Lovely camera work at the start of your video
Fantastic Joe, all your observations are so true, I had a Cayman S Sport, spent 8k on repairs, I went onto other cars after, but like you say once you own a Porsche, and it doesn’t matter which one you are in it for life, so I purchased a 2.7 armed with knowledge that the pistons in the 2.7 engine are different to the CaymanS or BoxsterS and harder…..but thats only what Im told, I have also applied a couple of mods, one of which turned the 2.7 into a really fun car……….
First time listening to your channel, and I have started looking into Porsche 911 996 or 987 Cayman as they are quite cheap. Good to hear someone's experience to it. Good video.
1997 ....I got stucked too. Bought a red Porsche Targa 911 SC 1980 manual with zero mods and extreem low milage. Only possible upgrade option for me as a Porsche-nerd to go "modern" was, and became my current one. A Porsche Cayman S 987.1 manual. A pearl for a Porsche-nerd. Just love it. 😍 Lovely content Joe and cheers from Sweden. You should try the magic GOTLAND RING in Sweden one day. Unique. 😛
Thanks again Joe for yet another great video. Just to give my view on modifications. I think it's down to the individual. Most Cayman 987 owners will change the head unit . Then for some ( like me) that's more or less it. Mine isn't an "S" so I put on twin exhaust pipes and red calipers. I upgraded the wheels to 19 inch ones. For me the car is now completed. So it's really down to individual taste. However,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we all know that if you consider your Cayman to be a long term investment . It's best to keep it as stock as possible. I also have a '71 Beetle almost 15 years. I bought it with massive wheels and a huge exhaust that went around the side of the car. I have changed it right back to its original form. Classic car experts tell me I've doubled its value. So everyone to their own. 🇮🇪
My 987.1 Boxster S purrs like a kitten. Had it two years now and it doesn't miss a beat. Did my due diligence before buying with a full PPI. Hearing these stories always makes me anxious but I have tucked a few k away just in case. I don't care what people say about bore score and IMS issues, love my Boxster. There is nothing like it :)
And at the end when you talk about how a Porsche hits and what it does to you it did that to me and that last saying you said was so good I had to subscribe to you
Porsche owners have a long term history of modifying their cars. It only tends to be the folk who want to stick on stupid gt4 rep spoilers who get a hard time. I have a modified 2.7. Coilovers will be fitted in a few weeks. Happy for you to take her out for a spin and a review Joe
I had a Cayman similar to yours, 2.7 but manual. Fun for a while but I live in London and it's all 20mph zones and speed bumps around every corner, and I just didn't get enough opportunities to enjoy it, so moved on to an auto BMW. Only later learned about the bore score issues but I haven't had mine for long enough to notice any, also I remember when I tried to sort some minor suspension bits I struggled to find a regular garage that would take it in because it's a Porsche so specialist tools and experience required. The mechanic I found eventually said because of mid engined layout, even servicing the basics on this car was a major pain in the ass. If I had to do it again, I would buy a car from a local Porsche specialist, with extended warranty, the longer the better. Then you have peace of mind.
I really have to disagree with the bore score issue. It is very rare. A lot of the issues have to do with the previous owner and how they were treated. Cold weather startups are a big problem. If you had that car from new it probably would have been fine. What is the history on your car? Did it have good history, service records and did you buy it from the owner? Or did you buy it off a lot with no history?
Bore score on the M97 3.4+ isn't rare at all, it's very common. It's hard to put a really precise figure on it, but at an absolute minimum 30% of cars have had scoring, quite possibly significantly more than that.
I assure you it’s not rare. It’s why I’ve made a lot a videos on this. I was told it was rare, had the car checked out, perfect Porsche history and still suffered it.
I have a black 987.2C 2.9 PDK. I was negotiating on both my car and a 987.1S 6 speed in silver. So glad I have the 2.9, but geez the silver 987.1S was a stunning car to look at…
I didn't really know much about bore score on these engines apart from if it's tapping, walk away! and the first car i went to see, a very nice silver one with the 19" lobster claw wheels and a blue interior was doing just this. The guy had warmed it up before i got there, then set about taking me on the most hair raising test drive I've ever been on 😂😂 proper pilot😂 that said i wasn't that impressed with the 0-60 but handling wise, i was sold on a Cayman! I didn't buy this car, but from a 0-60 point, i thought I'd try to buy the best spec i could, be it 2.7 or 3.4. I ended up with a 2.7 but a brilliant spec.... which is unusual for a 2.7 base in itself. Paint to sample, sports heated seats, extended leather trim, pccm (old now) and 1 or 2 other things i can't remember lol to be honest, I bought the car at exactly the wrong time milage wise at 82000 odd miles, as i was quickly into crossover coolant hoses, knocking suspension (upgraded with bilstein and h and r) along with actually new every suspension arm and bush available. I wont see my money back. Im not bothered about that but i will never buy another porsche again... i do tend to keep a car for a long time though. I still have a fiesta rs turbo that i bought 24 years ago, still mot and taxed 😂 turbo's are calling this car too! Years to go yet though Great vid joe, gets people talking about there experiences too
I had a 987 s a good number of years ago and i agree it is a very good car. My 987 used to smoke like crazy on a cold day and in the end i sold it mostly out of fear of IMS and borescoring. My 987 had been modified and the modifications caused all sorts of issues due to it being bodged and in the end i had to sort those issues such as the headlights replaced and constantly flickering, so i understand why people are reluctant to buy modified cars. I at the moment have a 981 C (after having a few years with a Lotus Evora) which i was a little reluctant to pay so much for a car that i essentially had previously but after driving the 981C with the PDK i have to say it felt like twice the car when compared to the 987 and i understand why they are twice as much in price.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head there with the 987.1, which is a fantastic car and at the price point opens up "the masses" to a Porsche. Sadly the 3.4 issues are all too common to those that are in the know and unfortuntely in this instance you have been the one left holding the baby having to fork out £10k for a rebuild. When you break it down, as you suggest, the Cayman 987 2.7 is the best Porsche you can buy in the £teens. It's not until the .2 era cars where many issues with the engine had been ironed out (but not all, heads can crack), however for that you're paying an extra £10k, which takes us back to the point you're making - why would anyone buy a 987.1 S without a rebuild, since if you're the one with the bore score, which even more likely as they get older, the cost of sorting it gets you into a 987.2 . Howevr 987.1 S cars like yours that have had the fix SHOULD see a price premium in the open market so all is not lost for you at least!
Excellent real world advice there, thanks very much indeed. The situation is the same with the Porsche 996 C4S though there's a lot of well intentioned but bad advice about bore score only affecting a small percentage of cars, they are all going to eventually suffer. so it's better to be forewarned 👍👍
The problems are unfortunately very real and well documented. There's a fundamental design problem with the cylinder wall coating and the situation affects the Porsche 996 C4 also. It's no way a coincidence that so many of these are failing .
Yep the 987.2 fixed both of those issues but there are precious few of those out there, only about 2k made it to North America for the S model and most of those are the PDK.
I’ve been looking at Caymans for a while and it doesn’t matter to me which one I end up buying. I just would like PDK, sports exhaust, not silver and decent wheels. The higher mileage 981s are nearly the same price as a low mileage 987.2S model. I think I prefer the shape of the rear end of the 981.
High mileage doesn't remove the risk of scoring. They can score anywhere from low to high miles. Really the only relevant factor there is that if it gets well over 100k without suffering scoring, something else like the IMS, main bearings etc will probably go anyway! Really the only way to reduce risk is to buy one that's already been rebuilt, with the proviso that there are an awful lot of low quality rebuilds out there. From a buyer's perspective, it's only really a Hartech rebuild that you can have confidence in. Not because it's the only outfit that can do a decent job. But because it's so much harder to judge the quality of the alternatives.
Hartech do have a great reputation but I didn’t use them 🤣 happy with mine tho, high mileage does seem to help them. Mine was not used enough and not warmed up I doubt. So many factors for bore score but it’s a guarantee that it will happen.
How do you judge the quality of any of them unless you're an engineer who has samples to compare?! Everyone talks about Hartech on the internet. That's all.
@@BeatPoet67 For most of them, you can't. I've been round Hartech's wrokshop a couple of times. They know what they are doing. The most important objective factor is that they rebuild far, far more of these engines than anyone else in the UK. By orders of magnitude. In that context, it would be peculiar if they hadn't learned more than anyone else how to do the job well.
Can you use cylinder sleeves on this car to help mitigate the bore scoring problem? I'm wondering because I really want to buy one of these cars, but the bore scoring is what keeps scaring me away from them.
One of my biggest grippes is hearing about someone's problems with a used vehicle or anything used. You can not always blame the manufacturer. History plays a huge role. Most people do not have a clue about taking care of a car. I have watched all of your videos and I know you do not know much about cars. You bought an 18 year old car without doing your homework. My Cayman took first place at the Werks Reunion at Amelia Island recently. It stood out against all of the boxsters and Caymans of any year produced. I've spent a ton of money replacing all of the aging parts. No one touches my car. I do everything. You don't buy an old car and just think it will run. There's the purchase price and then the make it reliable price. I have fixed cars for 40 years and have been a service manager. I've seen all the stories. Most of the issues are not knowing the history.
You really just need to have a PPI. If you have a PPI and you see signs of bore scoring, adjust the price accordingly. You have negotiating power then. Then you spend the 10,000£-14,000£ to get the upgraded 4.1L engine. Now you have a goddamn monster. You can also buy the upgraded Porsche made head unit to get carplay/AAuto and have your car feel very OEM+. A custom exhaust and maybe brakes/suspension and you’re in good shape. I understand Joe’s position, he’s frustrated and annoyed and the financial hole hurts. But you go into these cars knowing the costs. You don’t buy a porsche unless you can afford to buy it twice. If it costs you a little more to do some work, well that’s just part of the game, I think.
It’s not a gripe, I like to share my experience. To say I know nothing about cars actually makes me think my videos don’t paint a full picture so I’ll take that as feedback. History is a huge part but no matter what these cars have a design flaw which results in the engine being toast. Used or new it has got people over the years.
Jeez, that's a bit harsh. Joe is obviously not a mechanic, and he shouldn't need to be one to post a video on his ownership experience. He's been burnt financially, and if that helps others in selecting their cars, I think he's done newcomers to the brand a huge favour.
@@SniperReady FYI in some countries, PPI is not possible. I cannot do the bore scope in someone else car. So we need to rely on what we see on the outside. While I was searching , I found a Cayman S car with full history of maintenance and low mile. When started up the white smoke was all over the place and the exhaust pipe was oily wet. Bore scoring should be there.
Joe mate, I noticed when you were filling up, please tell me you're not putting 95 petrol in your car.. If so, that's prob the partial answer to why you were down on power at the dyno. Especially now that 95 is e10 everywhere.
As with any car most of these are run on a shoestring. You wont find many cars out there for sale with any of the key areas addressed. Its just a fact of life with any car really. Ive been thinking about a 987.2 but even though i do my own work i dont want to spend £20k on a car and then another £5k on maintenance thats been overlooked. If something does pop up then great but if not i probably wont bother.
You're correct. Once you try out a Porsche sport car, it's like crack cocaine. I'm on my 4th. In order, I've smoked a 1985 911 coupe euro spec, 1991 911 C2 coupe, then a 2006 Caymans S, and now I'm smoking a 2018 718 Boxster GTS. Maybe someday I'll sober up and buy a Hyundai again (I traded my 2006 Cayman S in on a new 2019 Hyundai Elantra Se manual with no options. That mistake will never happen again. Would someone pass the pipe please?
Life is to short to drive bad cars... If I had the money to buy a Porsche or other similar car I would have done that. But it is only now that I at least on paper have the money to buy one after stocks I bought skyrocketed, if I am able to sell the stock at the price indicated I will be able to buy a used Cayman and have money to spare ;) p Favorite car of all time was a cheep 1976 1,9L Ascona B SR I bought for 500€$£ in 2002, had it for 2 years until I got a little to eager doing a little rally driving on a mountain road and hit a stone damaging the steering. I never had the money to fix it, and it went to the scraps... Now a car like that cost same as a used Cayman here 20k to 40k £$£ as they are now crazy expensive. Pretty much all old cars with rear wheel drive is now silly expensive here.
@jayemm Has just bought a 987.1 3.4 with bore score, he is doing a Hartech 3.9 upgrade. I noticed that Hartech list the 2.7 as subject to bore score. I had a 2.7 Cayman, nice drive but lacking bottom end and needed a good thrashing. I might try a 981 2.9 next.
I’ve had a few comments about the 2.7 mentioned by Hartech. I don’t know what to think really, never heard of it until now. I wish I’d gone 2.7 and spent my money on upgrades but here we are, love the car.
@@PointNemo9 Because the Hartech video he made is really informative for people like me who are considering this 911/Cayman generation. Maybe you should check it out before opining.
@@BeatPoet67 this is literally the first I’ve heard of it. I have my own thoughts on Hartech but never voiced it anywhere. I went to Strasse for a good reason.
The guy who sold you your car most likely already knew it was starting to have bore scoring. (This happens more than you think--often on Carvana.) And he just hoped to find a buyer who wouldn't do enough due diligence to find out with a proper PPI and borescope inspection. Unf, that buyer was you.
I would say if you can stretch for 2.9 then it’s worth it, a much better engine and it’s gonna hold value better long term. It’s personal preference but I just prefer the styling on the 987.1
@@JoeTalksCars I agree with you. I love the style of the tail lights and headlights in 987.1 more than 987.2 I could not agree more with you in Cayman S. The bigger engine does not worth all the headache.
"Can`t modify a Porsche"... ? Every video I have seen of Cayman they have been modified, most often with lowering springs and almost always with modifies exhaust, and lots of lots of other modifications, and if it is not modified they talk about all the mods they plan to do soon.. It seems to me no other car people is that eager to modify, but maybe when it comes to the 911 model they are more purist that despise mods?
Crazy thing is a bought a 987 S for 14k(actually swapped my Lotus Elise for it but the sale price was 14k) in the UK 9 years ago and they are still worth 14k today (with a lot more mileage, the elise would probably be worth 20k today).
@@alanchandler3470 £14,000 is about $18,000. And in fact you can get a higher mile 3.4 (not crazy high, but say 90k or 100k miles) for about £10K. That's about $13,000.
The reason not to mod is purely financial. Mods lower the resale value in any car, but specifically Porsche due to the high amount of purest’s. If I see any one of the trifecta’s on a car (head unit, black wheels, exhaust) or worst all three; I know it’s a car to avoid.
It really does not. Have you driven both? I’m lucky to have lots of experience of all variety of Porsches, the Tiptronic is called out as rubbish by people who have read about it online. I mean you may have driven both and found that to be your opinion but it’s not something I would tend to agree with.
Yeah, I don’t get the automatic thing here, it kinda discredits everything he is saying. I think he’d be just as happy, if not happier, in a base Corolla with an exhaust kit on it.
What you said about bore score and the 2.7 is not true. Check JayEmm's video with Hartech. Hartech say the caymans from 2009 to 2012 have no bore score risk. So either 2.7 or 3.4 both have bore score risk pre 2009..
Most of your points are sound, but you were personally impacted by bore score which will impact your point of view… as it should. I have a 2006 cayman s for the last 2 years. I researched this before and after purchase for YEARS now. Bore score is NOT an eventuality. Never has been. Never will be. My car is pristine at 60k miles now and that’s not by accident. No one knows the true percentage of bore scored cars. Anyone who claims so is lying or is simply misled. I doubt even Porsche knows. The most likely cause of bore scoring is leaking fuel injectors in combination with poorly chosen oil. It is not some kind of singular fundamental hardware/design defect but it IS something that can happen due to a cascade of design decisions in this engine. In addition to replacing old or leaky injectors using an oil like Driven DT40 and never, ever revving a cold engine or let it idle from cold before driving. Scoring happens because of a momentary loss of oil at key points. Think carefully about exactly how this can happen. Do your own research with this engine. Don’t even take my word for it. I want your viewers to know there is more to discover and just getting a 2.7 or 987.2 or 981 is not your only option. You should also change your oil every 6 months or 3k miles whichever comes first. Don’t follow the official Porsche guidelines for 987.1 Cayman S. Also pay attention to the AOS which WILL fail and can lead to serious issues, coil pack cracking and the water pump. The lokasil cylinder liner was obviously not a great choice as Porsche swiftly changed this error in later models. This liner is why the failure rate has made the 987 and 997 infamous but failure is STILL not an eventuality. You just have to work harder to maintain this car sadly. Hartech never goes into great detail publicly about the cause of the scoring beyond complaining about the piston skirt coating. They never give any indication about prevention either. It’s not in their best interests to do so. They do go into great detail about why you should not replace lokasil with steel however. I was very concerned when I saw this is the option you chose. I’m hoping that you don’t run into the issues they warn about on their site. As far as mods I’m with you. Soul exhaust, Wavetrac lsd, ultimate aos, softronic tune, girodisc rotors among many others. Car is a dream to drive as long as you take care of it the right way. I also have a 2017 Turbo S so the Porsche addiction thing can also be very real. That car is much easier to maintain than the cayman but is ridiculously expensive for damn near anything you can imagine. I love driving the old cayman as much as the Turbo S. It’s worth maintaining it and always will be to me.
Amazing comment! Thank you for taking the time. You make some valid points. Like you said nobody really knows the total numbers, just from what you hear and see on the internet regarding owners of these cars. The steel liners have been a topic of conversation on my channel a lot. The only experts who say not to use them are Hartech. That’s not to say what they offer is good but they spend a great deal of time shouting loudly on the internet how they are the only ones who can build these cars. Il let people make their own mind up on whether or not this is out of genuine skill when it comes to building the cars or to expand their business. I know my thoughts on this. You make such valid points about the maintenance which I’m sure has a great deal of impact on bore score for sure.
These cars "need" modifications imho. I love mine but they're not as amazing as people think they will be. They lack power, sound, and braking for starters. To be brutal, I should have gone back to a NIssan 350Z and thrown the money on mods. That would eat the Cayman for breakfast. But "oh no...the badge".....yeah right. Love my Cayman as much as I do, I'll never buy another Porsche to be honest. Totally over rated brand.
Well I did and the forums and other videos suggested 3% of cars. Hardly none at all when you think of the number produced. That statistic is still thrown around and I wish people were more open and accept that it’s a huge problem for most Cayman 987.1 S owners
You have a higher percentage of getting cancer. My 2002 ran for 190K miles on the original IMS bearing and only needing water pump and coolant tank. My 1986 Porsche 928S with 200k miles still running on the original engine only replaced the clutch, alternator once + maintenance and tires.
Dude, you made a terrifying realization, once you buy a Porsche , that's all you want. i swear, every time i get in my Cayman, i want that feeling in an everyday car.
The addiction is real! I had a cayman 981 2.7 but moved on to a BMW M4 Competition and whilst that is a beautiful car I’ve just put a deposit on a Cayman 718 GTS. Can’t wait to get back behind that Porsche crested steering wheel. Keep up the good work! 👍
I had the 2.7 , partly because I thought it would be cheaper to run and lower powered cars tend to be less stressed. It was enough for me and was very happy with it. Lovely camera work at the start of your video
Fantastic Joe, all your observations are so true, I had a Cayman S Sport, spent 8k on repairs, I went onto other cars after, but like you say once you own a Porsche, and it doesn’t matter which one you are in it for life, so I purchased a 2.7 armed with knowledge that the pistons in the 2.7 engine are different to the CaymanS or BoxsterS and harder…..but thats only what Im told, I have also applied a couple of mods, one of which turned the 2.7 into a really fun car……….
First time listening to your channel, and I have started looking into Porsche 911 996 or 987 Cayman as they are quite cheap. Good to hear someone's experience to it. Good video.
1997 ....I got stucked too. Bought a red Porsche Targa 911 SC 1980 manual with zero mods and extreem low milage. Only possible upgrade option for me as a Porsche-nerd to go "modern" was, and became my current one. A Porsche Cayman S 987.1 manual. A pearl for a Porsche-nerd. Just love it. 😍 Lovely content Joe and cheers from Sweden. You should try the magic GOTLAND RING in Sweden one day. Unique. 😛
Thanks again Joe for yet another great video. Just to give my view on modifications. I think it's down to the individual. Most Cayman 987 owners will change the head unit . Then for some ( like me) that's more or less it. Mine isn't an "S" so I put on twin exhaust pipes and red calipers. I upgraded the wheels to 19 inch ones. For me the car is now completed. So it's really down to individual taste. However,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we all know that if you consider your Cayman to be a long term investment . It's best to keep it as stock as possible. I also have a '71 Beetle almost 15 years. I bought it with massive wheels and a huge exhaust that went around the side of the car. I have changed it right back to its original form. Classic car experts tell me I've doubled its value. So everyone to their own. 🇮🇪
Let's be realistic. These cars are never going to be an investment. But they'll probably never go below 8k. So do as you will with them.
Great video Joe!
As Frank Cassidy (Boxengasse) says - “Your car, your rules!”
Glad you are keeping the Cayman. 👍
Thank you! That’s a great quote. I mean I’m not going mad on this car but I want to make it a little bit more me:)
My 987.1 Boxster S purrs like a kitten. Had it two years now and it doesn't miss a beat. Did my due diligence before buying with a full PPI. Hearing these stories always makes me anxious but I have tucked a few k away just in case. I don't care what people say about bore score and IMS issues, love my Boxster. There is nothing like it :)
Nice! Yeah I mean getting it checked over is always the best! Once you get these cars out on the open road nothing matters
Love my 2.7 987 boxster 124,800 miles and runs really well
And at the end when you talk about how a Porsche hits and what it does to you it did that to me and that last saying you said was so good I had to subscribe to you
Thank you so much! Really appreciate that
Porsche owners have a long term history of modifying their cars. It only tends to be the folk who want to stick on stupid gt4 rep spoilers who get a hard time. I have a modified 2.7. Coilovers will be fitted in a few weeks. Happy for you to take her out for a spin and a review Joe
Joe, I'll be interested in how mods affect your insurance premium. Did your exhaust have an impact?
Barely noticed an increase. I’m with Esure if that’s helps?
I had a Cayman similar to yours, 2.7 but manual. Fun for a while but I live in London and it's all 20mph zones and speed bumps around every corner, and I just didn't get enough opportunities to enjoy it, so moved on to an auto BMW. Only later learned about the bore score issues but I haven't had mine for long enough to notice any, also I remember when I tried to sort some minor suspension bits I struggled to find a regular garage that would take it in because it's a Porsche so specialist tools and experience required. The mechanic I found eventually said because of mid engined layout, even servicing the basics on this car was a major pain in the ass. If I had to do it again, I would buy a car from a local Porsche specialist, with extended warranty, the longer the better. Then you have peace of mind.
I really have to disagree with the bore score issue. It is very rare. A lot of the issues have to do with the previous owner and how they were treated. Cold weather startups are a big problem. If you had that car from new it probably would have been fine. What is the history on your car? Did it have good history, service records and did you buy it from the owner? Or did you buy it off a lot with no history?
Bore score on the M97 3.4+ isn't rare at all, it's very common. It's hard to put a really precise figure on it, but at an absolute minimum 30% of cars have had scoring, quite possibly significantly more than that.
I assure you it’s not rare. It’s why I’ve made a lot a videos on this. I was told it was rare, had the car checked out, perfect Porsche history and still suffered it.
Yeah I imagine it’s higher but you are probably not far off
I have a black 987.2C 2.9 PDK. I was negotiating on both my car and a 987.1S 6 speed in silver. So glad I have the 2.9, but geez the silver 987.1S was a stunning car to look at…
I didn't really know much about bore score on these engines apart from if it's tapping, walk away! and the first car i went to see, a very nice silver one with the 19" lobster claw wheels and a blue interior was doing just this. The guy had warmed it up before i got there, then set about taking me on the most hair raising test drive I've ever been on 😂😂 proper pilot😂 that said i wasn't that impressed with the 0-60 but handling wise, i was sold on a Cayman! I didn't buy this car, but from a 0-60 point, i thought I'd try to buy the best spec i could, be it 2.7 or 3.4. I ended up with a 2.7 but a brilliant spec.... which is unusual for a 2.7 base in itself. Paint to sample, sports heated seats, extended leather trim, pccm (old now) and 1 or 2 other things i can't remember lol to be honest, I bought the car at exactly the wrong time milage wise at 82000 odd miles, as i was quickly into crossover coolant hoses, knocking suspension (upgraded with bilstein and h and r) along with actually new every suspension arm and bush available. I wont see my money back. Im not bothered about that but i will never buy another porsche again... i do tend to keep a car for a long time though. I still have a fiesta rs turbo that i bought 24 years ago, still mot and taxed 😂 turbo's are calling this car too! Years to go yet though
Great vid joe, gets people talking about there experiences too
I had a 987 s a good number of years ago and i agree it is a very good car. My 987 used to smoke like crazy on a cold day and in the end i sold it mostly out of fear of IMS and borescoring. My 987 had been modified and the modifications caused all sorts of issues due to it being bodged and in the end i had to sort those issues such as the headlights replaced and constantly flickering, so i understand why people are reluctant to buy modified cars. I at the moment have a 981 C (after having a few years with a Lotus Evora) which i was a little reluctant to pay so much for a car that i essentially had previously but after driving the 981C with the PDK i have to say it felt like twice the car when compared to the 987 and i understand why they are twice as much in price.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head there with the 987.1, which is a fantastic car and at the price point opens up "the masses" to a Porsche. Sadly the 3.4 issues are all too common to those that are in the know and unfortuntely in this instance you have been the one left holding the baby having to fork out £10k for a rebuild. When you break it down, as you suggest, the Cayman 987 2.7 is the best Porsche you can buy in the £teens. It's not until the .2 era cars where many issues with the engine had been ironed out (but not all, heads can crack), however for that you're paying an extra £10k, which takes us back to the point you're making - why would anyone buy a 987.1 S without a rebuild, since if you're the one with the bore score, which even more likely as they get older, the cost of sorting it gets you into a 987.2 .
Howevr 987.1 S cars like yours that have had the fix SHOULD see a price premium in the open market so all is not lost for you at least!
Excellent real world advice there, thanks very much indeed. The situation is the same with the Porsche 996 C4S though there's a lot of well intentioned but bad advice about bore score only affecting a small percentage of cars, they are all going to eventually suffer. so it's better to be forewarned 👍👍
Not true they don't all suffer it,car just needs proper regular maintenance and to be fully warm before driving hard
The problems are unfortunately very real and well documented. There's a fundamental design problem with the cylinder wall coating and the situation affects the Porsche 996 C4 also. It's no way a coincidence that so many of these are failing .
Is it not the case that the 987.2 (from 2009 onwards) does not suffer from bore scoring / IMS issues as these issues were addressed by Porsche?
Yep the 987.2 fixed both of those issues but there are precious few of those out there, only about 2k made it to North America for the S model and most of those are the PDK.
@@draksia Yep and mine is a 2010 with a 6speed, rare as hens teeth .
I’ve been looking at Caymans for a while and it doesn’t matter to me which one I end up buying. I just would like PDK, sports exhaust, not silver and decent wheels. The higher mileage 981s are nearly the same price as a low mileage 987.2S model. I think I prefer the shape of the rear end of the 981.
The IMS issue was eliminated because the engine was redesigned. There are now cases of the newer S engines showing potential for bore scoring.
High mileage doesn't remove the risk of scoring. They can score anywhere from low to high miles. Really the only relevant factor there is that if it gets well over 100k without suffering scoring, something else like the IMS, main bearings etc will probably go anyway! Really the only way to reduce risk is to buy one that's already been rebuilt, with the proviso that there are an awful lot of low quality rebuilds out there. From a buyer's perspective, it's only really a Hartech rebuild that you can have confidence in. Not because it's the only outfit that can do a decent job. But because it's so much harder to judge the quality of the alternatives.
Hartech do have a great reputation but I didn’t use them 🤣 happy with mine tho, high mileage does seem to help them. Mine was not used enough and not warmed up I doubt. So many factors for bore score but it’s a guarantee that it will happen.
How do you judge the quality of any of them unless you're an engineer who has samples to compare?! Everyone talks about Hartech on the internet. That's all.
@@BeatPoet67 For most of them, you can't. I've been round Hartech's wrokshop a couple of times. They know what they are doing. The most important objective factor is that they rebuild far, far more of these engines than anyone else in the UK. By orders of magnitude. In that context, it would be peculiar if they hadn't learned more than anyone else how to do the job well.
Can you use cylinder sleeves on this car to help mitigate the bore scoring problem?
I'm wondering because I really want to buy one of these cars, but the bore scoring is what keeps scaring me away from them.
One of my biggest grippes is hearing about someone's problems with a used vehicle or anything used. You can not always blame the manufacturer. History plays a huge role. Most people do not have a clue about taking care of a car. I have watched all of your videos and I know you do not know much about cars. You bought an 18 year old car without doing your homework. My Cayman took first place at the Werks Reunion at Amelia Island recently. It stood out against all of the boxsters and Caymans of any year produced. I've spent a ton of money replacing all of the aging parts. No one touches my car. I do everything. You don't buy an old car and just think it will run. There's the purchase price and then the make it reliable price. I have fixed cars for 40 years and have been a service manager. I've seen all the stories. Most of the issues are not knowing the history.
You really just need to have a PPI. If you have a PPI and you see signs of bore scoring, adjust the price accordingly. You have negotiating power then. Then you spend the 10,000£-14,000£ to get the upgraded 4.1L engine. Now you have a goddamn monster. You can also buy the upgraded Porsche made head unit to get carplay/AAuto and have your car feel very OEM+. A custom exhaust and maybe brakes/suspension and you’re in good shape.
I understand Joe’s position, he’s frustrated and annoyed and the financial hole hurts. But you go into these cars knowing the costs. You don’t buy a porsche unless you can afford to buy it twice. If it costs you a little more to do some work, well that’s just part of the game, I think.
It’s not a gripe, I like to share my experience. To say I know nothing about cars actually makes me think my videos don’t paint a full picture so I’ll take that as feedback. History is a huge part but no matter what these cars have a design flaw which results in the engine being toast. Used or new it has got people over the years.
@@JoeTalksCars He is one amazing bloke!!!!!!!!!!
Jeez, that's a bit harsh. Joe is obviously not a mechanic, and he shouldn't need to be one to post a video on his ownership experience. He's been burnt financially, and if that helps others in selecting their cars, I think he's done newcomers to the brand a huge favour.
@@SniperReady FYI in some countries, PPI is not possible. I cannot do the bore scope in someone else car. So we need to rely on what we see on the outside. While I was searching , I found a Cayman S car with full history of maintenance and low mile. When started up the white smoke was all over the place and the exhaust pipe was oily wet. Bore scoring should be there.
Joe mate, I noticed when you were filling up, please tell me you're not putting 95 petrol in your car.. If so, that's prob the partial answer to why you were down on power at the dyno. Especially now that 95 is e10 everywhere.
Nooo, only ever put 99 in. You did make me second guess then so I rewatched it 🤣 definitely 99 😊
@@JoeTalksCars ahh no worries then! Good vid, keep'em coming
As with any car most of these are run on a shoestring.
You wont find many cars out there for sale with any of the key areas addressed.
Its just a fact of life with any car really.
Ive been thinking about a 987.2 but even though i do my own work i dont want to spend £20k on a car and then another £5k on maintenance thats been overlooked.
If something does pop up then great but if not i probably wont bother.
I just stumped up the rebuild cost up front and bought a 2015 981S … I’m NEVER selling it !
That’s a good idea. If only I knew 🤣
You're correct. Once you try out a Porsche sport car, it's like crack cocaine. I'm on my 4th. In order, I've smoked a 1985 911 coupe euro spec, 1991 911 C2 coupe, then a 2006 Caymans S, and now I'm smoking a 2018 718 Boxster GTS. Maybe someday I'll sober up and buy a Hyundai again (I traded my 2006 Cayman S in on a new 2019 Hyundai Elantra Se manual with no options. That mistake will never happen again. Would someone pass the pipe please?
Life is to short to drive bad cars... If I had the money to buy a Porsche or other similar car I would have done that. But it is only now that I at least on paper have the money to buy one after stocks I bought skyrocketed, if I am able to sell the stock at the price indicated I will be able to buy a used Cayman and have money to spare ;) p
Favorite car of all time was a cheep 1976 1,9L Ascona B SR I bought for 500€$£ in 2002, had it for 2 years until I got a little to eager doing a little rally driving on a mountain road and hit a stone damaging the steering. I never had the money to fix it, and it went to the scraps... Now a car like that cost same as a used Cayman here 20k to 40k £$£ as they are now crazy expensive. Pretty much all old cars with rear wheel drive is now silly expensive here.
@jayemm Has just bought a 987.1 3.4 with bore score, he is doing a Hartech 3.9 upgrade. I noticed that Hartech list the 2.7 as subject to bore score. I had a 2.7 Cayman, nice drive but lacking bottom end and needed a good thrashing. I might try a 981 2.9 next.
Why would anyone care about what Jayemm is doing?
I’ve had a few comments about the 2.7 mentioned by Hartech. I don’t know what to think really, never heard of it until now. I wish I’d gone 2.7 and spent my money on upgrades but here we are, love the car.
@@PointNemo9 Because the Hartech video he made is really informative for people like me who are considering this 911/Cayman generation. Maybe you should check it out before opining.
Please provide a link to Hartech regarding the 2.7 and bore scoring. I can’t seem to find it anywhere. Thanks!
@@BeatPoet67 this is literally the first I’ve heard of it. I have my own thoughts on Hartech but never voiced it anywhere. I went to Strasse for a good reason.
When u say putting the ali express head unit what is that
It’s like Porsche PCCM+ but from china
Another solid video,Joe. We will release a Portable car Vacuum. Can we invite you to do a review? We have reached out for an inquiry.
Thanks for the comment, I’m not sure my subscribers want to see me cleaning tho 👍
The guy who sold you your car most likely already knew it was starting to have bore scoring. (This happens more than you think--often on Carvana.) And he just hoped to find a buyer who wouldn't do enough due diligence to find out with a proper PPI and borescope inspection. Unf, that buyer was you.
Got it from a garage, yeah I know it happens a lot. I can imagine! With it being such a huge bill people can’t bare to risk it.
Do you think 987.2 with PDK transmission, 2.9 lit engine is better than 987.1 in term of value for the money?
I'd say so yes, just try and find a car that has some of the common issues addressed and it softens the blow somewhat.
I would say if you can stretch for 2.9 then it’s worth it, a much better engine and it’s gonna hold value better long term. It’s personal preference but I just prefer the styling on the 987.1
@@JoeTalksCars I agree with you. I love the style of the tail lights and headlights in 987.1 more than 987.2 I could not agree more with you in Cayman S. The bigger engine does not worth all the headache.
wish knew was how expensive the road tax is over £700 now when I first got mine it was like £550 soon it’s gonna be over 1k
Now that’s a good one! Crazy money isn’t it
Any views on the gen 2 2.9?
Got into a Porsche cayman S had it 7 months got straight out of it into an Audi RS5 and the RS5 was so much better. Not everyone sticks with Porsche
That’s interesting! I sometimes look at the RS5, I imagine a very very different car.
"Can`t modify a Porsche"... ? Every video I have seen of Cayman they have been modified, most often with lowering springs and almost always with modifies exhaust, and lots of lots of other modifications, and if it is not modified they talk about all the mods they plan to do soon.. It seems to me no other car people is that eager to modify, but maybe when it comes to the 911 model they are more purist that despise mods?
does the tiptronic rev-match when you downshift the car manually?
Nope unfortunately not:(
@@JoeTalksCarsthank you for the reply 🙏
I had a 987.1 2.7. I found them quite disappointing and very overrated. Sounded nice and looked good though.
Overrated in what way?
@@PointNemo9 without the badge I didn't think it was so much better than everything else I've owned. That's the impression I got from reviews
@@derekporter66 manual or auto? I bought a Cayenne S cause I didn't want to advertise my midlife crisis.
@@peterlattimore6013 had the manual
Maybe your expectations were overrated… That’s the only variable here.
Crazy you can get a cayman S for 14k over there. they are near 30k USD in US.
$14,000 pounds, not US
@@alanchandler3470 yeah still, a Cayman S for only $17USD, like 10k off from over here.
Crazy thing is a bought a 987 S for 14k(actually swapped my Lotus Elise for it but the sale price was 14k) in the UK 9 years ago and they are still worth 14k today (with a lot more mileage, the elise would probably be worth 20k today).
@@alanchandler3470 £14,000 is about $18,000. And in fact you can get a higher mile 3.4 (not crazy high, but say 90k or 100k miles) for about £10K. That's about $13,000.
Really? That’s mad! Hope they go up to that price here 🤣
Every engine has a lifespan and will eventually need a rebuild
Yeah but not at 52k like this one.
The reason not to mod is purely financial. Mods lower the resale value in any car, but specifically Porsche due to the high amount of purest’s. If I see any one of the trifecta’s on a car (head unit, black wheels, exhaust) or worst all three; I know it’s a car to avoid.
0:55 is this a sign 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mate, you drive an automatic. Completely ruins the driving experience. Just buy a Corolla if you can drive a manual or won’t stump up for one
It really does not. Have you driven both? I’m lucky to have lots of experience of all variety of Porsches, the Tiptronic is called out as rubbish by people who have read about it online. I mean you may have driven both and found that to be your opinion but it’s not something I would tend to agree with.
Yeah, I don’t get the automatic thing here, it kinda discredits everything he is saying. I think he’d be just as happy, if not happier, in a base Corolla with an exhaust kit on it.
@@kirk8359 so the flat 6 howl and the handling is different if it changes gear for me
What you said about bore score and the 2.7 is not true. Check JayEmm's video with Hartech. Hartech say the caymans from 2009 to 2012 have no bore score risk. So either 2.7 or 3.4 both have bore score risk pre 2009..
Nope that’s not true, 2.7 do not suffer. After 2009 it was a 2.9 anyway so different engine.
Porsche there is no substitute lol
Sigh. Is that an automatic?
It is but Misha drove it around the Nurburgring and said it was “not terrible” 🤣
Most of your points are sound, but you were personally impacted by bore score which will impact your point of view… as it should. I have a 2006 cayman s for the last 2 years. I researched this before and after purchase for YEARS now. Bore score is NOT an eventuality. Never has been. Never will be. My car is pristine at 60k miles now and that’s not by accident. No one knows the true percentage of bore scored cars. Anyone who claims so is lying or is simply misled. I doubt even Porsche knows. The most likely cause of bore scoring is leaking fuel injectors in combination with poorly chosen oil. It is not some kind of singular fundamental hardware/design defect but it IS something that can happen due to a cascade of design decisions in this engine. In addition to replacing old or leaky injectors using an oil like Driven DT40 and never, ever revving a cold engine or let it idle from cold before driving. Scoring happens because of a momentary loss of oil at key points. Think carefully about exactly how this can happen. Do your own research with this engine. Don’t even take my word for it. I want your viewers to know there is more to discover and just getting a 2.7 or 987.2 or 981 is not your only option. You should also change your oil every 6 months or 3k miles whichever comes first. Don’t follow the official Porsche guidelines for 987.1 Cayman S. Also pay attention to the AOS which WILL fail and can lead to serious issues, coil pack cracking and the water pump. The lokasil cylinder liner was obviously not a great choice as Porsche swiftly changed this error in later models. This liner is why the failure rate has made the 987 and 997 infamous but failure is STILL not an eventuality. You just have to work harder to maintain this car sadly. Hartech never goes into great detail publicly about the cause of the scoring beyond complaining about the piston skirt coating. They never give any indication about prevention either. It’s not in their best interests to do so. They do go into great detail about why you should not replace lokasil with steel however. I was very concerned when I saw this is the option you chose. I’m hoping that you don’t run into the issues they warn about on their site. As far as mods I’m with you. Soul exhaust, Wavetrac lsd, ultimate aos, softronic tune, girodisc rotors among many others. Car is a dream to drive as long as you take care of it the right way. I also have a 2017 Turbo S so the Porsche addiction thing can also be very real. That car is much easier to maintain than the cayman but is ridiculously expensive for damn near anything you can imagine. I love driving the old cayman as much as the Turbo S. It’s worth maintaining it and always will be to me.
Amazing comment! Thank you for taking the time. You make some valid points. Like you said nobody really knows the total numbers, just from what you hear and see on the internet regarding owners of these cars. The steel liners have been a topic of conversation on my channel a lot. The only experts who say not to use them are Hartech. That’s not to say what they offer is good but they spend a great deal of time shouting loudly on the internet how they are the only ones who can build these cars. Il let people make their own mind up on whether or not this is out of genuine skill when it comes to building the cars or to expand their business. I know my thoughts on this. You make such valid points about the maintenance which I’m sure has a great deal of impact on bore score for sure.
Porsche all ways have problems only a few exceptions.
I estimate £5.000.00 a year is a conservative sum .
I’ve been hurt by many
I budget £2k a year for service and maintenance, averages just over half that in the 3.5 years I’ve owned it
Sound advice. It’s the little things that seem to end up costing the most!
You did say "cult" didn't you 😂
🤣 maybe I didn’t 🤣🤣🤣
"Car sounds shit mate"😂
🤣🤣🤣
These cars "need" modifications imho. I love mine but they're not as amazing as people think they will be. They lack power, sound, and braking for starters. To be brutal, I should have gone back to a NIssan 350Z and thrown the money on mods. That would eat the Cayman for breakfast. But "oh no...the badge".....yeah right. Love my Cayman as much as I do, I'll never buy another Porsche to be honest. Totally over rated brand.
I guess if you dont research a car you are looking at buying, you sort of deserve it if known issues surface!
Well I did and the forums and other videos suggested 3% of cars. Hardly none at all when you think of the number produced. That statistic is still thrown around and I wish people were more open and accept that it’s a huge problem for most Cayman 987.1 S owners
You have a higher percentage of getting cancer. My 2002 ran for 190K miles on the original IMS bearing and only needing water pump and coolant tank. My 1986 Porsche 928S with 200k miles still running on the original engine only replaced the clutch, alternator once + maintenance and tires.