@kennethrhodes7143 It's a somewhat true statement, however only with context, that being terribly modified (boosted) ones & ones owned by idiots revving the F out of their engines with no load. Aeroplane builders always use engines in the stable area, in fact most aeroplane-designed engines look terrible hp/liter, but that's because they are run in a different way to what is in vehicles, especially the RPM range, which is extremely narrow in comparison for 90% of the time. So, yes, good engines, very good form of combustion engine in general (all horizontal engines are just amazing imo..) but people will be people & do dumb stuff.
@kennethrhodes7143 not an expert, but is airplane engine go through emission test and subject to CAFE? and if these airplane engine suffer the large bore area/ring issue note in the video (or builder specially look for old design that is not being push by emission factor)
I also didn’t hear anything good lol. Only plus is low center of gravity? But. With all those issues and quirks. Almost wouldn’t mind slightly higher engine that is better in every other way
@@TML34 Half the power? The EJ20 turbo was a perfectly good engine... 30 years ago. 😊 Honestly at the time the Version 1 through Version 6 Subaru WRX STis were a fast car compared to most. I guess the Volvo B20 or Ford Cosworth engine could hold more power, but they mostly didn't have AWD (and the AWD systems in the Sierra Sapphire and Escort RS were not that great, AFAIK?). (Of course it is a little bit of a shame that WRX STis have only gotten slower since then!)
@@TML34 If built properly, they're great. One of my STi's has been running 619 whp on 35 psi of boost with 91+meth dual fuel for about 25k kms now. No issues yet. I'm running closed deck case halves, though. Build was 4 years ago now. I don't drive it too much as it's a summer weekend car now. I have another STi for my daily that's mostly stock.
Man it feels good to be watching motoiq again, I swear this guy could charge money for the amount of knowledge he drops every video I swear I have learned more about all the technical stuff from this guy over video than I did two semesters with my college professor in a shop. Gotta say I love your videos mike.
Every vehicle driver "bets their life" on every manufacturer, dealership, mechanic, tire brand, other drivers, etc - each time they leave the driveway. Your ? is a "what if" with no sensibility@@eskieman3948
@@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm He's the epitome of ignore customer goals and build the motor to MotoIQ bottom line. Unsurprisingly, MOST people don't want to build their engine for time trials or drag strip builds but very mild, close to stock goals. Mike will tell you that's impossible, the only way to have a Subaru motor be reliable is putting $10k into it.
If you put an old Air-Cooled VW case next to a Subie case you'll see they're not all that much different (structurally). When you think how one was built to support 40-60hp, the other to support 200-300hp, it becomes very clear why these cases flex/distort.
Check out the Subaru EA engines. The pushrod engines I describe as like someone described an aircooled vw over the phone to an engineer. The transmission (that became the 5 speed) is very similar too. The ring gear ID is even the same, and dimensions close enough you could retrofit a subaru diff into a VW (I've considered it). But those EAs have a 3 main bearing crank like the VW too.
@@Levibetz As an owner of a 1971 1600 this makes me happy to hear, I always knew the motors where simillar but never knew they were that close. Now I see why they are so popular for swaps gotta say Im deffanatly going to get one of those feeling parking next to Subarus from now on almost like parking a old muscle car next to a new one.
@@randoorlando443 Well the EJ is totally different, that's the motor this video is about. But the older EA is very similar. Nothing interchanges directly, but it's similar.
@@Levibetz ahh, I figured nothing would be interchangable I gotta say subaru motors are deffanantly far from my cup of tea heck really motors in general but I guess I can always look at subaru as big daddy vw in a way, Thanks for the info
I wonder how similar the water cooled Porsche engines are to an EJ, in terms of "idiosyncrasies"? I remember reading that the VVT in the Subaru 6 cylinder is a leased copy of a Porsche design.
I had a 2008 WRX sedan that I bought brand new. I later upgraded the ECU, did a VF52 from the 2009, intake and exhaust. It was a daily driver so I didnt want to go to crazy with mods. I did all the mods at about 30,000 miles. We bought it in AZ. We lived up in Prescott and I had a LOT of time spent above 100mph. I even tracked it a few times at Big Willow. I only had to do maintenance on it. I had it for 165,000 miles and just sold it last year.. I replaced the VF52 once. Power Steering, AC condenser, clutch and a wheel speed sensor when I hit a chunk of ice....I live in Denver now. I drove it hard and often. I loved it. Thinking of getting a 2011-2014 STI sedan.
I know sound is pure opinion, but in 4 cyls., I love certain v4's. Yamaha vmax, honda v4's with a 180 degree crank, panigale... also the cross plane crank yamaha R1's sound similar, and awesome. None of those really suitable for a car, unfortunately.
02 was the best year.had stage 2 tune and replaced factory clutch after 180k miles of straight abuse 4.5 to 6k rpm launches regularly. Car continued past 200k miles until it was stolen and crashed into someone’s house. Then my boss where I use to work (Firestone) sent me a picture saying recognize this? a year after it was stolen of my car sitting on the alignment rack with new wheels on it still going strong. 02 wrx wagon rally blue. Now I have a Toyota GR Corolla. Shit is nostalgic!!!!
$20,000+ for a mild IAG build really hurts the soul when you start looking at what other platforms are doing with just basic bolt-ons. That 20k can go pretty far into suspension/tires/safety. *Caveat*, if you need AWD there isn't much choice.
I tune Subarus and always try to make people understand what was said in the video and explain the exponential dollar curve on modifying Subarus. I no longer have one because of the motor. Hell, I love the new BR-Z/FR-S and briefly considered buying a brand new one. I couldn't do it because of the engine. There are 20 year old NA Honda motors I would rather have in it.
I got 2010 SH Forrester -- 2.5L aspirated not turbo. Hasn't failed me yet. I've tweaked it a bit; after market ECU, NGK electrics, Cat-back exhaust, bigger radiator for cooler running, slotted rotors all round etc. just no turbo. Done 4 cross country road trips; never missed a beat.
* my coworker after doing donuts in the snowy parking lot on a cold engine * “I don’t know why engine blew up, I ALWAYS baby my car. I guess Subarus are not reliable because this is my 7th engine now” True story by the way. 😂 🤣 😂
this characterizes most subie owners that complain about reliability in my experience. meanwhile, going on 300k miles on 2 with stock internals over here....
That’s what I’m talking about bro. I never hear anything bad about Subaru. When I do it’s usually a spun bearings, blown block, ruined piston or connecting rod. Then I ask, what did you do?
@@menumlor9365 Indeed, I think once you start tuning a car / doing mods, and then pushing it hard - IDK, I have a hard time taking that out on the car / car company. The STI, maybe if it's not holding up stock cause it's sold for that stuff, but the rest are sold as family cars. You start tracking any "normal family car" and I think things are going to break IDK.
A Subaru turbo cannot handle its own power long term if there is extended WOT use. Such as track days. They can handle AutoX or a track day here and there for a while.
@@Triple_J.1 autocross compared to an actual track(lets not conflate) is most rough on the tires, not on the whole car and the first 2 generations of WRX sold included free SCCA memberships from Subaru. But can you name a commuter 4-door within affordability of 80% of car drivers that could handle the torment of a track day?
I enjoyed the video. What I got from it was for racing applications, the engine needs to be modified to address the weak points. For non racing application, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Subaru engine. The same advice would apply to racing a small block chevy.
One of the best videos I have seen on just explaining issues with an engine not just because it’s a Subaru motor. A lot of what was explained can been applied to many motors especially the part about using head studs. My hat off to you sir for letting the you tube community understand about what happens to your cylinder bore when using studs. A lot of fools who think they know how to build or solve head gasket problems think that head studs is the answer. Using studs will help prevent blowing head gaskets especially on a diesel engines but that cylinder distortion will result in a shorter engine life. I drive a 2003 F250 with original head bolts and gaskets with 420k mileage on it currently and will hit half a million this year. Wouldn’t be able to go much past that with head studs and not start using/burning oil.
I love the information, I'm about to rebuild a 1.8 turbo. My question is do rebuild this and how much would charge me to rebuild this and where are you located thank you.
had subaru's most of my life , all my friends hate them, not the best engine but they fascinate me , i like the ej208 and 206 twin turbo , i keep them stock as they are my everyday cars , and have been reliable for over 10 years
Most of my wife’s family buy Subaru’s only. They live in Montana and buy them for their superior traction, safety and accident avoidance. One of my brothers and sister’s inlaw drives 50K miles a year, so every 6 years they buy a new Outback, because after 6 years it has 300K miles. They change the oil every 5K miles and every 35 - 40K miles they have the CVT fluid changed. All of her miles are highway mileage where they seldom drive over 70mph. A few years ago my wife had been wanting an Outback for many years, so for her 50th birthday I bought her a 2 year lease returned Outback. It had only 5,600 miles. It now has only 30K miles and it’s 5 years old. She fell in love with the Cinnamon Brown with the warm Ivory interior. Before buying her the Outback she’d have to park her Camry 3-4 months every winter because of the 5-7 feet of snow we get here in a very mountainous area of north central Washington state. She would then drive my 4WD Toyota RAV4 and I’d drive our 11 Ford Ranger XLT super cab 4WD pickup. After buying her the Outback, we were so impressed with the traction that I decided it was time to replace my old RAV. We had to put studded snow tires on my RAV every winter, whereas she drove year round on her factory tires on her Outback. In December 2022, I found a 2019 Forester Touring that had only 4,700 miles. It’s a Certified Subaru and is the biggest LEMON ever produced. I started complaining about it at only 5K miles and BEFORE the Factory Warranty expired. It’s been into Subaru service department many many many times. They thought that they found the problem After the warranty expired and even though I’d been complaining about it for over a year and the warranty expired, Subaru wouldn’t pay to have it fixed. So it cost me $1,600. Even though I spent that money for a new DCM the main computer, it’s still doing the same things and now my mpg has Dropped from 24mpg, it’s now down to 20mpg. It’s the 2.5L 182 naturally aspirated engine. Hell, my RAV had the 268hp 3.5 V6 with a 5spd automatic transmission and I was getting 27mpg in it. In 25 the RAV. Is supposed to be redesigned, so I’ll wait for the 26 year model and I’ll sell my POS LEMON forester Touring and buy a new RAV AWD Hybrid. My Forester is my First Subaru and it will be my LAST Subaru Ever ! As far as I’m concerned, Subaru can go 🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽 Themselves
I know how you feel. I don’t trust my Subaru to go out of town at all. Its engine was totally rebuilt at 60k and now at 103k it needs it again and they hit me with an estimate of nearly $9700. The trade in value is about $5000.
I've almost always attributed EJ early death's to oiling problems in their stock forms. I'd not considered the ring issues, which is a solid point. Unlike a traditional layout design--where other fluids to include a gas/air mix doesn't mind laying on it's side nearly as much--the oil travel and performance certainly does! I have no idea how some of the hillclimb guys in Europe keep 800hp engine together, unless they just accept that a rebuild is necessary after every event vis-a-vis quarter mile drag engines.
Have you ever been to a drag strip? Basically only top fuel do teardowns between runs. There's lots of people who drive to the strip, rip 9/10's all day and then drive back home.
They just accept their fate on the rebuilds part, I mean they’re hard racing a 2.5l engine that makes 800hp it’s not gunna survive that well in majority of engines that displacement or smaller
Got here due to the algorithm gods and was more than pleasantly surprised to see Mike Kojima’s familiar but slightly older face on the thumbnail. As a former devout reader of Sport Compact Car magazine in the 90s and early 00’s , I was exposed to Mr Kojima’s work in the past. It sure feels like meeting an old friend / family member after more than a quarter of a century.
I had a friend in high school that had a 1973 D/L. Seems like we were always changing headgaskets. He finally started to use beer cans as headgaskets. GREAT VIDEO!
So tired of people saying “this man needs to be protected” like as if you were in a higher position. Boy you need to be protected. No credentials don’t get you credit.
Im making 286whp and 300wtq in my 2011 wrx... just street driven and doesn't get pushed too hard ever. Hopefully im safe. It has supporting mods like the oil pick up and cylinder 4 cooling mod.. gonna put an AOS on too but tired of being scared of owning a Subaru lol. Despite the constant fear of engine issues I love the character of the car, the sound and the AWD system.
both my NA Subaru's blew.. stock, maintained well.. 03/08 My FRS has been okay though FA20. it's a case by case sure, though won't be owning another from my experience...
@@UCMtouchstock FRS with FA20 nearing 160k miles. All original, I drive the piss out of it. Made sure the previous owner took care of it. I follow their maintenance intervals, use the old black MIJ Subaru oil filters. The newer blue filters sold/used at dealerships are taller but thinner in circumstance. I’ve heard they’re made by Fram. I also use Idemitsu oil.
I have a 2011 STi. It's been on a downpipe/intake for about 85k miles. Conservative tune. If anything it's slightly rich. I run Rotella 5-40 it's whole life. I haven't had any issues. I don't abuse the car or track it. Spirited sprints, no clutch drops etc. It's still running strong. For now.
The WRX vb manual calls for 91 and even says you can run 87 without affecting engine reliability and it doesn’t void the warranty. 91+ is recommended for optimal performance and fuel efficiency.
The knock sensor and computer keep the engine on the edge of pinging regardless of fuel grade for efficiency purposes. And it is basically never worthwhile to pay extra for expensive fuel; the fuel economy gain from automatic timing advance won't make up for the added cost.
I’m a 17 y/o subie owner and builder, did a built motor build this summer and I completely agree on every single point, you really do have to be a pretty specific type of car enthusiast to want big power out of a subaru 😂
You are a zen master of engine building TH-cam. I’m not even into the Japanese stuff but I watch to learn and your calm demeanor is refreshing in a sea of obnoxious TH-camrs.
Really detailed and comprehensive report on EJ issues. I lost my 92X motor at less than 30k miles still under warranty and Saab/Subaru wouldn't cover it. Haven't trusted them since. The FAs are a little better but I still won't track one without the recommended mods and they are farther down the list of desirable cars for me.
I find it so surprising the variance in experience. My family has had a LOT of Subarus but never had an engine go. My sister even had the timing belt slip on an old Impreza hatch I think and it drove to their garage and it didn't damage the engine (amazing, we thought anything happen to timing belt and engine is toast). I think the main difference is we've avoided turbos and aren't racing / tracking our cars, we just want pretty reliable really good AWD and good in the snow cars. We have had the head gasket issue, but they're not that bad to get fixed or if you're buying used, just buy ones that had the gasket changed already. I'm pretty sure they finally fixed that with the new engines. What I did have go wrong was the newer CVT transmission. I decided to keep a car due to not driving all the time, and at 55k miles the CVT started slipping. Luckily for me - Subaru is covering it under an extended warranty(not something I bought, I guess they just did it for everyone because of some issues.), so I have no real complaints - they're dealing with their bad part, no hassle from me needed. I get to drive a new Outback while waiting for them to fix mine.
Sounds a lot like the denied warranties for the FA24 motors that are in the GR86/BRZ. I nearly bought a GR86 myself but the more research I did the more I realized that I don't make enough money to tank a totalled engine block in car that has multiple known ways of totaling the engine.
Well done. I enjoy watching someone who absolutely knows what they are talking about. Unreasonable expectations on what was originally designed as a family car into a turbo charged monster will cause problems and expensive disappointment. 61hp/liter for the stock NA engine to 121hp/liter for the factory STI and then expecting up to 320hp/liter to be reliable is a pretty good stretch as a reasonable expectation. LOLOL!
It's weird, here in the UK we've had Turbo / WRX Scoobies since 92, the STi since 94. I never heard any issues of them except that when pushed far beyond the engines design window piston 3 could have issues at 100k or so. But even that was pretty rare. Maybe it's more on the post Hawk Eye models?
@@realMaverickBuckley I've never had any issues making 400whp on old EJ20K's. Change the timing belt regularly and keep the fluids fresh. I used to buy imported engines here in the US and never had a EJ20G or EJ20K with a problem. Here in the US our Legacy in the early 90's had a closed deck 2.2L turbo that was indestructible and basically where the 22B came from. The crazy part about them were they were turbo with no I/C or special models had a coolant cooled I/C.
This man is so knowledgeable, seems so humble too. Would love to just talk cars with him imagine how much you could learn in just one day..Closest I will get is watching his videos, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain things the way you do to us "Average Joe's" 👍
I’ve never felt more informed, understanding and relaxed in my life … wish my uni lecturers were like this but they don’t talk about scooby engines they say fancy business words and waste my time and money 🤣
Subaru performance engines are not built strong enough to withstand turbo-boost. They are not built like Toyotas, which are over engineered. This is a good thing. Thank you Toyota. Not referring to the new Tacomas! They SUCK! What does NOT SUCK is this man who is explaining issues with the Subaru turbo engines. He really speaks well, explains everything very well, and definitely knows his stuff. These are thing that I remember learning in my tech-school years ago. Excellent video! Very well done!
great video, I will never let my STI over 300whp since I will do track days a lot, all the money I will put is on oiling and reliability and cooling, if I wanna big horse power I will simply change platform
I bought a 2002 Subaru WRX that had rod bearing failure back in 2012. Rebuilt it myself, had the crank turned and ran underside rod bearings. That thing was awesome. Something happened to one of the timing belt pulleys because I was broke and didn’t buy new ones when I rebuilt it. Timing cover exploded and parts landed all over the highway. I sold the car and haven’t had another turbo Subaru since then but I plan to own another one eventually. I daily drive a 2000 Impreza outback and it’s a beast but I miss my WRX!
I daily drive a 2000 2.2L Impreza Coupe and it's wonderful, ...with a perfect balance of power and economy. I believe high zinc oils contribute to the destruction of turbo Subaru bearings as they are silver or silver plated and zinc in presence of acid corrodes silver. It is a known issue in locomotive engines with silver bearings- these require zinc-free oil. Subaru mentions to use 5w-30 Resource Conserving oil only. The 5w-30 RC oils category limits zinc severely. The first thing nearly all WRX fans do is put a thicker more zinc loaded oil into their engines. Thicker is fine but nearly all thicker oils have more zinc than RC oils. What oil did you use may I ask?
@@HILLBILLY_HARD In that case you are off the hook, unless it was the previous owners' oil choice (if used car). Shell Rotella T6 is very popular among Subaru enthusiasts and it's loaded with zinc. I have a 2013 Forester XT, ...I use a mix of NAPA brand oils as they are Valvoline but with a weaker add pack, read: very little zinc in their thick 15w-50 synthetic oil.
I am buying a 24 wrx, I plan to keep it stock just cause I don't have the money to replace motors and transmissions. I think the 270 horse is more than enough for a daily driver. I am thrilled to be getting one and I keep watching videos like this so I don't fall for the next shiny object. Keep it simple is best. Thanks for the great video.
Keep that oil changed with good quality GF-6A synthetic to keep those direct injection carbon particles from harming your engine. Change every 3OOO miles and run a 10w40. Keep it stock and it will last.
Subaru should watch this video to make their vehicles 1000 times more reliable than what they currently are from what you’re saying in this video. Very good info. Thanks for sharing.
MAN Mike! Every video of yours I am more and more impressed with your deep understanding of Performance+ engine building. You are very good at explaining complicated aspects in a way that is easier to understand. You are a Made genius! Thanks for all your teachings! I really appreciate you My Brother! You are giving me a deeper general understanding for mopowababy! 😎👍
Man, I wish it was just because of tuning. A few months back I was looking at cheap subarus to buy one. Holy smokes, the amount of stock subarus that are out there with major engine damage is mind boggling. I've owned stock subarus before and I have owned several modified German cars before. Just one of my well maintained subarus had more issues than ALL of my supposedly unreliable German cars combined. Was really eye opening.
@@ianriggs Sure. But Subaru isn't one of them. Even old Japanese stuff was pretty varied. It is impossible to kill a 1970 Kawasaki 125, but it's quite a challenge to keep a 1970 Kawasaki 350 going.
@@JETZcorp I was just kidding I just think it's hilarious that Nissan merged with Renault. Definitely suffered some quality and reliability issues since that merger tho that's for sure
My 2014 turbo Forester blew the engine at 47,000 miles. Subaru ended up paying about 1/2 the cost of replacement. The bill was $6,700. It also has a sensor that gets wet which operates the key fob and that had to be replaced 3 times. My neighbor's brand new Subaru blew the transition within one month. I will never buy another Subaru again.
Your comment gives me hope. I’m in the market for a new WRX and am reconsidering after watching this but I also don’t plan on beating on it or excessive modifications
Glad I found this video. I'm trying to talk my kid out of buying a used turbo charged Subaru. He doesn't have the money for repairs and needs a reliable car for work.
If you are in the snow I’d suggest the 2010 or so 3.6 legacy it brings the power of a WRX with so much less in the way of reliability given its not turbocharged and isn’t being pushed hard. Well it depends on the budget you have as you probably are looking at older subies, then I’d suggest the 3.0R if they are dying for good power or a Honda. I love subies but Honda is the king of cheap but indestructible, that old 1.6 single cam will never fail
Another great Subaru video! Taking into account this and other videos I've come up with this plan. 1. Keep it cheap, keep it fun. If you're not laughing if/when it blows, you spent too much. 2. Don't build the engine, it's not worth the machining cost, work around the flaws. 3. Don't shove power in down low, the block/rods can't handle it. 4. When time comes for more power go with cams and dry sump (cheaper than a built engine) to be able to safely spin it to higher rpms (~8-9) without oil starvation, and put the power in there. 5. Throw out the restrictive cast UEL manifold that just holds hot exhaust in the cylinder and increases detonation, run the twin scroll or other EL tubular manifold. Probably also run a turbo with a decently large hot side, unlike most stock fitment Subaru turbos. 6. Don't try to push a heavy car with all this, start with the lightest possible car.
Stay under 330 or so whp for a track-driven car, with Ethanol maybe 390 or so. You don't need cams for this power level and if you do a cam change, you should pul the engine so it is not recommended. You don't need a dry sump unless you run a billet case, are at high power levels or you pull more than 1.2 G's.
@@motoiq It's a street/track car doing ice racing, rallycross, and maybe a few drag passes. I've got less than 1500$ into the motor and it's in a GL Hatch so curb weight is only around 2300lbs. I think I'm going to aim maybe more for 350-400 full rip, but if I were to do longer track sessions, I'd bring that down closer to 250-300. Either way, it's pretty scary quick already with the wastegate wired wide open haha
@@Anonymoose0913 I think that's the mindset that causes people to blow shit up. You can make 600hp sure with a stock bottom end. But you're pushing a bunch of cylinder pressure into a not very rigid block and not very strong rods. With stock bottom end tuning, you want to soften up that cylinder pressure by making your power at higher rpm.
@Levibetz Your talking about the bottom end. I'm talking about where you said for power you need cams, Subaru actually built the heads AMAZINGLY well on these EJ's and they can flow more than enough air for up to 600HP. If your wanting to be able to reach higher RPM then your looking at the your valvetrain, but for actual HP numbers the stock cams are good up until 600HP, all you need to make that 600HP number is a port and polish. Above that 600HP is when you start looking at something like BC 272 cams.
@@motoiq It was a light build with bolt ons, turbo and a tune! The engine had been machined though, supposedly to spec. Only made 280 AWHP for 2 months. Broke it passing someone on the freeway. Everyone agreed they hadn't seen it before. I have both pieces in the closet for fun.
For sure! I always wondered why Subaru struggles where Porsche has endured reliably. Just this video alone, you can tell there are a-lot of cut corners though. Porsche don’t fuk around.
@@NoName-tf2et I'm not that knowledgeable, but isn't there some price gap that makes the comparison a bit weak? To me Porsche and Subaru don't play in the same league so cheaper designed/built Subie engines isn't a big surprise.
@@danmarjenka6361 why not, they did the BRZ (or something similar) together. The head gasket thingy that is popular to say of "all Subarus" aren't true of all engines tho. I would like stats on the longevity of all manufacturers cars in "percentage of distance travelled" or something similar with price included in calculation. Often stats like that even things out.
This is why I paid professionals to make me ej20 open deck block to closed deck stroker shortblock.Forged, Pins, rear thrust, line boring, all the good stuff. Cost around 5000 euros. For the reability you get for the money is so much better than buying 2nd hand stock engine or built engine which have unknown history
My buddies VB almost blew up a few days ago because his turbo oil cooler (idk its technical name) had the two bolts that seal the gasket on the bottom of the turbo completely back out and cause a massive oil leak. No low oil warning just a shitton of smoke. When we took off the metal undertray, there were 2 bolts just chilling standing straight up like a cartoon. We realigned the gasket and put the bolts back in. It had lost 3.5 quarts of oil lost in a matter of minutes.
Great honest Vid! Many years ago I came close to buying an STI Bug Eye. A good friend / Mechanic schooled me on the benefits of an iron, closed deck block. I went that route (4G63). 15 years later, still making good ethanol power.
Fascinating Fluent, clear, concise. No wasteful , slovenly, gimmicky talk. No one trying to be a comedian. Just sound, straightforward, totally unpretentious presentation and so nice to listen to. Here is knowledge, experience, sound mind, that is blest with the gift of communication. I’m from a large bore, slow speed marine engineering background with a life long interest in engines, so some of this was way over my head, but it didn’t diminish the pleasure of listening and watching. When I commenced my apprenticeship, an “ old hand” said when he was a young engineer, his elderly chief engineer said to him, “Never forget, engineering is the science of exactitude.” This man is the epitome of that. Love the blend of old school thoroughness applied to state if the art technology. My own interpretation is that accuracy is a pre requisite, not an optional extra. I saw and heard that here. Well produced video. Thank you so much for a brilliant, relaxed and relaxing video.
I have a 2011 subaru forester i bought used odemeter read 103,000. Starts and runs great. Diagnostic scan read 81,400 miles. According to online info the head gasket was made more durable for longer lasting. The timing belt was replaced with a timing chain for longer lasting. The company was trying to improve the enging to give it more miles. Like anything else it burns out.
I had a jdm 1994 impreza wrx and yes the head gasket did blow but it was old and had no service history but it was worth every penny for the amazing performance
Every Subaru guy I've talked to gets mad when I say their motors aren't as tough as some other brands and they always say the EJ motor is bullet proof.
Ive had a blitzen now for 18 years from a EJ 20 twin turbo 2 litre from Japan regular service high grade synthetic oil and factory filters and now it's done 240 thousand Km. Only ever did the cambelts and brake pads since I've had it and doesn't burn oil from oil change to oil change no leaks and motor still tight when switched off on ignition.. Personally I can't fault the EJ 20 engine to me it's truly reliable and cost free and I always use 98 octane gas
Mike, you're comments. Remind me of Jay Meagher from Real Sreet. When he talked about how he was building V8 engines and all of a sudden, there were so many people trying to get him to build EJs they'd apy twice as much for an engine that took half as long 👍
Sounds like the biggest cause of Subaru engine failures is the owner. They mod the crap out of it, then drive it like it's a race car. No wonder it fails.
I love this guy. He's either just in from a surf session or blew up a fattie. He can barely contain a chuckle as he explains what will become "I told you so" for many who can't understand why their 550+ hp motors. But so clear and concise, with a fab vocab.
My Baja has 210,000 miles and has been knocking for the last 20,000. No burning oil. I baby it and use it as my winter driver, putting only about 3,000/year on it. Fingers crossed.
Hmm. It is well known that most of the issues are from people who improperly mod their engine. If you bought a stock engine and left it as such, you are likely fine. There are many factors that come into play. It is quite possible there isn't a lot of headroom in stock form, which may be "bad" for people who want to mod it, but that means you simply need to factor that into your modifications and upgrade accordingly. Also, many of the other issues (related to head gaskets, etc) were mainly only on older EJ25 engines so they are all pretty old now. If you use the more robust head gasket used on the turbo models, you won't have head gasket issues going forward (on your NA engine).
Driving from New York to Toronto last night a Subaru WRX 2002 that over took my Civic Hatch up the mountain and around the corner on I-80 North. When we came around the bend he was in the median with his hood open and smoke pouring out. Dark at night in the snow out on a mountain in Pennsylvania is not an ideal place to be.
These cars tend to knock, and need fuel and also run hot. Gotta watch outside environment factors, make sure the engine isn’t sitting and good tune and you’ll be fine.
Family have had 5 Subaru’s, 1 Impreza’s, 1 Outback, 2 XV’s and 1 2000 WRX. Never had any engine problems with any of them. The 2004 Outback was written off due to hail damage with 270kms, daughters 1998 Impreza sold with 340kms as we wanted something with airbags and 1 XV sold due to an accident but replaced with a newer XV. My 2000 WRX has 353kms, still has the original engine, gearbox, rear diff and running gear. Regularly run the engine to 6500 rpm plus, use gears and rely on revs rather then torque. Regular oil changes every 6 months are essential to making these things work.
I used to love Subies when the WRX came stateside. But that engine gave me nightmares and I did not trusr driving it on a small roadtrip. Three cars later, I give up and going back to Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus forever. If your car is not reliable, there is really no reason to be driving/buying it. Also, only select mechanics know how to fix it which sucks balls.
Great Video, honest technical reasoning. It also made me happy with my choices for my new engine. My family had a Subaru dealership from 1971 until the early 80"s, I grew up with them and still love them today.
Had a 05 legacy gt limited wagon, only “mod” was a catless up pipe. Motor went at 130,000miles. It spent a lot of time at Subaru for wheel bearings, a/c, and electrical problems also. I loved that car and then hated it. Sad to see it go, but glad to never see it again.
I’m sorry about your experiences. I’m on my 3rd legacy. My ‘97 I got rid of at 116k, my 2010 2.5 at 79k, and I still have my ‘16 3.6R. Heard mixed things, but I’ve never had issues.
@@cecilthecavetroll9743 no need to be sorry. That was just my experience with what I thought was gonna be a great family car, but it let me down more times than I’d like to remember and the Subaru experience and dealership was also a letdown. They wanted to ignore issues or pretend the problems were normal until the warranty ran out.
He's a good guy, he smiles and explains everything so well, it reminded me of someone on acid with that permanent smile you get, not every time, but once in awhile you get lucky with the permanent smile. It hurts smiling like that. That's what mushroom packages should say on them,(if you get a smile longer than fore hours see a doctor. Or find more sad people.
I have a ‘06 OB H6. No problems 197k miles. I do like though how this good man sets a disclaimer at the jump. Turbocharged and young race prone kids blow these engines. It is not a race car. This is not a muscle/race car or a Honda. Great vid.
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Mike is the Bob Ross of engineering.
Happy little turbos
😂
So much this 😂
His voice makes my hair tickle.
This is sooooo true!
Bro, honestly. This was one of the most concise and honest breakdowns of Subie engines. The good, the bad, and the ugly.
@kennethrhodes7143 It's a somewhat true statement, however only with context, that being terribly modified (boosted) ones & ones owned by idiots revving the F out of their engines with no load.
Aeroplane builders always use engines in the stable area, in fact most aeroplane-designed engines look terrible hp/liter, but that's because they are run in a different way to what is in vehicles, especially the RPM range, which is extremely narrow in comparison for 90% of the time.
So, yes, good engines, very good form of combustion engine in general (all horizontal engines are just amazing imo..) but people will be people & do dumb stuff.
I didn’t hear anything good…
@@GregoryCunningham he said the cranks are actually really strong and can make really big power stock, which is good I guess
@kennethrhodes7143 not an expert, but is airplane engine go through emission test and subject to CAFE? and if these airplane engine suffer the large bore area/ring issue note in the video (or builder specially look for old design that is not being push by emission factor)
I also didn’t hear anything good lol. Only plus is low center of gravity? But. With all those issues and quirks. Almost wouldn’t mind slightly higher engine that is better in every other way
Worked in a cylinder head shop.
You could run an entire business off Subaru engines alone.
Same design 25 years later.
😂😂 I hate subie engines. 10x the labour for half the power and reliability of anything else.
@@TML34 Half the power? The EJ20 turbo was a perfectly good engine... 30 years ago. 😊 Honestly at the time the Version 1 through Version 6 Subaru WRX STis were a fast car compared to most. I guess the Volvo B20 or Ford Cosworth engine could hold more power, but they mostly didn't have AWD (and the AWD systems in the Sierra Sapphire and Escort RS were not that great, AFAIK?). (Of course it is a little bit of a shame that WRX STis have only gotten slower since then!)
@@TassieLorenzohe’s right, half the power because the motors are junk… Subaru at its best couldn’t hold a candle to a Honda motor at its worst…
@@TML34 If built properly, they're great. One of my STi's has been running 619 whp on 35 psi of boost with 91+meth dual fuel for about 25k kms now. No issues yet. I'm running closed deck case halves, though. Build was 4 years ago now. I don't drive it too much as it's a summer weekend car now. I have another STi for my daily that's mostly stock.
@@Serpentis666 the ej207 is pretty good and is what Subaru used in all of thier racing applications. Unfortunately the US never got them as usual.
I don't even own a Subaru, yet thoroughly enjoy listening to Mike talking about them.
Same here man!
What up my nga
Same here lol
Not owning Subaru is why you enjoyed it
@@thornburyrecords Stupid.
God i wish i had the money to have this guy build an engine. Humble, knowledgeable and sharp as razor.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
he's a legend
Perfect voice tone to tell you it's going to cost you $8k to rebuild your engine. @@briangriffith3985
@eskieman3948 man u gotta explain
I own and have owned many Subarus. I love them, but sometimes it feels like they don't love me back.
One-sided love, probably one of the worst kind of relationships 😂
😅
no shit its a machine.
@@Maximus20778🤦🏾♂️
@@aaronbryan5095 You certainly have a lifetime of experience with that....
Subaru guys are some of our best customers! 💀😂
Glad I don't come to your shop or anyone else I know. Bunch of low IQ apes.
Man it feels good to be watching motoiq again, I swear this guy could charge money for the amount of knowledge he drops every video I swear I have learned more about all the technical stuff from this guy over video than I did two semesters with my college professor in a shop. Gotta say I love your videos mike.
yep, it's a good refresher too, everything he says checks out! :)
Umm... 141K subscribers, 43K views in 2 days... I'm sure he's getting paid one way or another!
The man is giving up a lot of serious information for free. Much appreciated!
Would you bet your life on everything he said? If so... dead man walking.....
Every vehicle driver "bets their life" on every manufacturer, dealership, mechanic, tire brand, other drivers, etc - each time they leave the driveway. Your ? is a "what if" with no sensibility@@eskieman3948
The bright side of you tube!
I love how Mike explains all the shortcomings of an EJ with a smile
It's like the nicest, "This engine is a POS," explanation ever. 😂
@@DaveP-uv1ml I'd rather see him smiling than see some douchey bro presenter.
Why not just listen and not watch the screen? What a dumb complaint.
because he bull shits on and over does it on street engines = buy his stuff $$$$$$ expensive !
@@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm He's the epitome of ignore customer goals and build the motor to MotoIQ bottom line. Unsurprisingly, MOST people don't want to build their engine for time trials or drag strip builds but very mild, close to stock goals. Mike will tell you that's impossible, the only way to have a Subaru motor be reliable is putting $10k into it.
@@watchandjewelryloft4713Except it's not and he even said so.
If you put an old Air-Cooled VW case next to a Subie case you'll see they're not all that much different (structurally). When you think how one was built to support 40-60hp, the other to support 200-300hp, it becomes very clear why these cases flex/distort.
Check out the Subaru EA engines. The pushrod engines I describe as like someone described an aircooled vw over the phone to an engineer. The transmission (that became the 5 speed) is very similar too. The ring gear ID is even the same, and dimensions close enough you could retrofit a subaru diff into a VW (I've considered it). But those EAs have a 3 main bearing crank like the VW too.
@@Levibetz As an owner of a 1971 1600 this makes me happy to hear, I always knew the motors where simillar but never knew they were that close. Now I see why they are so popular for swaps gotta say Im deffanatly going to get one of those feeling parking next to Subarus from now on almost like parking a old muscle car next to a new one.
@@randoorlando443 Well the EJ is totally different, that's the motor this video is about. But the older EA is very similar. Nothing interchanges directly, but it's similar.
@@Levibetz ahh, I figured nothing would be interchangable I gotta say subaru motors are deffanantly far from my cup of tea heck really motors in general but I guess I can always look at subaru as big daddy vw in a way, Thanks for the info
I wonder how similar the water cooled Porsche engines are to an EJ, in terms of "idiosyncrasies"? I remember reading that the VVT in the Subaru 6 cylinder is a leased copy of a Porsche design.
This gentleman has all the experience to come across as 100% accurate.
He speaks with no prejudice but with reams of knowledge.
I had a 2008 WRX sedan that I bought brand new. I later upgraded the ECU, did a VF52 from the 2009, intake and exhaust. It was a daily driver so I didnt want to go to crazy with mods. I did all the mods at about 30,000 miles. We bought it in AZ. We lived up in Prescott and I had a LOT of time spent above 100mph. I even tracked it a few times at Big Willow. I only had to do maintenance on it. I had it for 165,000 miles and just sold it last year.. I replaced the VF52 once. Power Steering, AC condenser, clutch and a wheel speed sensor when I hit a chunk of ice....I live in Denver now. I drove it hard and often. I loved it. Thinking of getting a 2011-2014 STI sedan.
I learned at a young age keep your daily driver a daily driver and if you want to race build a race car.
My tuned 2002 WRX made it to 345,000 miles. Transmission and turbo went out. Engine was fine. Best sounding 4 banger ever.
I know sound is pure opinion, but in 4 cyls., I love certain v4's. Yamaha vmax, honda v4's with a 180 degree crank, panigale... also the cross plane crank yamaha R1's sound similar, and awesome. None of those really suitable for a car, unfortunately.
My 2002 Toyota Celica GTS went 405k miles and still going, can hit redline/lift all day long. Best sounding 4 banger Ive ever owned😂
02 was the best year.had stage 2 tune and replaced factory clutch after 180k miles of straight abuse 4.5 to 6k rpm launches regularly. Car continued past 200k miles until it was stolen and crashed into someone’s house. Then my boss where I use to work (Firestone) sent me a picture saying recognize this? a year after it was stolen of my car sitting on the alignment rack with new wheels on it still going strong. 02 wrx wagon rally blue. Now I have a Toyota GR Corolla. Shit is nostalgic!!!!
@@firstielasty1162 I have a vfr 800, awesome engine with a awesome sound. I think a larger displacement v4 would be a great idea
This gives me hope 😂
Boxer engines are the only reason I don't own a Subaru. The cost to keep one on track just isn't worth it. You know if you know.
$20,000+ for a mild IAG build really hurts the soul when you start looking at what other platforms are doing with just basic bolt-ons. That 20k can go pretty far into suspension/tires/safety.
*Caveat*, if you need AWD there isn't much choice.
I tune Subarus and always try to make people understand what was said in the video and explain the exponential dollar curve on modifying Subarus. I no longer have one because of the motor.
Hell, I love the new BR-Z/FR-S and briefly considered buying a brand new one. I couldn't do it because of the engine. There are 20 year old NA Honda motors I would rather have in it.
@@yamahaSHOToyota has announced they’ll be ditching Subaru’s engine in the GR86. Not for a couple years though.
Porsche block/case design is much stronger due to being higher output engines. @@DaveP-uv1ml
@@stevef3521 Link, please.
I got 2010 SH Forrester -- 2.5L aspirated not turbo. Hasn't failed me yet.
I've tweaked it a bit; after market ECU, NGK electrics, Cat-back exhaust, bigger radiator for cooler running, slotted rotors all round etc. just no turbo. Done 4 cross country road trips; never missed a beat.
* my coworker after doing donuts in the snowy parking lot on a cold engine *
“I don’t know why engine blew up, I ALWAYS baby my car. I guess Subarus are not reliable because this is my 7th engine now”
True story by the way. 😂 🤣 😂
this characterizes most subie owners that complain about reliability in my experience. meanwhile, going on 300k miles on 2 with stock internals over here....
That’s what I’m talking about bro. I never hear anything bad about Subaru. When I do it’s usually a spun bearings, blown block, ruined piston or connecting rod.
Then I ask, what did you do?
@@menumlor9365 Indeed, I think once you start tuning a car / doing mods, and then pushing it hard - IDK, I have a hard time taking that out on the car / car company. The STI, maybe if it's not holding up stock cause it's sold for that stuff, but the rest are sold as family cars. You start tracking any "normal family car" and I think things are going to break IDK.
A Subaru turbo cannot handle its own power long term if there is extended WOT use. Such as track days. They can handle AutoX or a track day here and there for a while.
@@Triple_J.1 autocross compared to an actual track(lets not conflate) is most rough on the tires, not on the whole car and the first 2 generations of WRX sold included free SCCA memberships from Subaru.
But can you name a commuter 4-door within affordability of 80% of car drivers that could handle the torment of a track day?
I enjoyed the video. What I got from it was for racing applications, the engine needs to be modified to address the weak points. For non racing application, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Subaru engine. The same advice would apply to racing a small block chevy.
Exactly, just another motorhead clown who talks shit about Subaru
Regardless of their failures, the STI is still my favorite and most fun I had with a car.
Miss it so much...
Me too….got totaled by a drunk while it was parked. Never had a problem with it the 3 years and 40k I put on it
This dude looks so happy just to be explaining this to us. I love it, I wanna be his friend
One of the best videos I have seen on just explaining issues with an engine not just because it’s a Subaru motor. A lot of what was explained can been applied to many motors especially the part about using head studs. My hat off to you sir for letting the you tube community understand about what happens to your cylinder bore when using studs.
A lot of fools who think they know how to build or solve head gasket problems think that head studs is the answer. Using studs will help prevent blowing head gaskets especially on a diesel engines but that cylinder distortion will result in a shorter engine life.
I drive a 2003 F250 with original head bolts and gaskets with 420k mileage on it currently and will hit half a million this year. Wouldn’t be able to go much past that with head studs and not start using/burning oil.
No one ever believes me!
I love the information, I'm about to rebuild a 1.8 turbo. My question is do rebuild this and how much would charge me to rebuild this and where are you located thank you.
I was nervous when send my question but it was mainly, it you rebuild my 1.8 the way you explain it in your video.
had subaru's most of my life , all my friends hate them, not the best engine but they fascinate me , i like the ej208 and 206 twin turbo , i keep them stock as they are my everyday cars , and have been reliable for over 10 years
Most of my wife’s family buy Subaru’s only. They live in Montana and buy them for their superior traction, safety and accident avoidance.
One of my brothers and sister’s inlaw drives 50K miles a year, so every 6 years they buy a new Outback, because after 6 years it has 300K miles.
They change the oil every 5K miles and every 35 - 40K miles they have the CVT fluid changed.
All of her miles are highway mileage where they seldom drive over 70mph.
A few years ago my wife had been wanting an Outback for many years, so for her 50th birthday I bought her a 2 year lease returned Outback. It had only 5,600 miles. It now has only 30K miles and it’s 5 years old.
She fell in love with the Cinnamon Brown with the warm Ivory interior.
Before buying her the Outback she’d have to park her Camry 3-4 months every winter because of the 5-7 feet of snow we get here in a very mountainous area of north central Washington state. She would then drive my 4WD Toyota RAV4 and I’d drive our 11 Ford Ranger XLT super cab 4WD pickup.
After buying her the Outback, we were so impressed with the traction that I decided it was time to replace my old RAV.
We had to put studded snow tires on my RAV every winter, whereas she drove year round on her factory tires on her Outback.
In December 2022, I found a 2019 Forester Touring that had only 4,700 miles. It’s a Certified Subaru and is the biggest LEMON ever produced.
I started complaining about it at only 5K miles and BEFORE the Factory Warranty expired. It’s been into Subaru service department many many many times.
They thought that they found the problem After the warranty expired and even though I’d been complaining about it for over a year and the warranty expired, Subaru wouldn’t pay to have it fixed. So it cost me $1,600.
Even though I spent that money for a new DCM the main computer, it’s still doing the same things and now my mpg has Dropped from 24mpg, it’s now down to 20mpg. It’s the 2.5L 182 naturally aspirated engine.
Hell, my RAV had the 268hp 3.5 V6 with a 5spd automatic transmission and I was getting 27mpg in it.
In 25 the RAV. Is supposed to be redesigned, so I’ll wait for the 26 year model and I’ll sell my POS LEMON forester Touring and buy a new RAV AWD Hybrid.
My Forester is my First Subaru and it will be my LAST Subaru Ever !
As far as I’m concerned, Subaru can go 🖕🏽🖕🏽🖕🏽 Themselves
I know how you feel. I don’t trust my Subaru to go out of town at all. Its engine was totally rebuilt at 60k and now at 103k it needs it again and they hit me with an estimate of nearly $9700. The trade in value is about $5000.
@@GarlonAllen I got rid of my Forester and bought a new 23 Tacoma TRD Off Road, double cab, 6’ bed with the Premium and Technology pkgs
Overwhelmed by a feeling of zen listening to this guy.
I've almost always attributed EJ early death's to oiling problems in their stock forms. I'd not considered the ring issues, which is a solid point. Unlike a traditional layout design--where other fluids to include a gas/air mix doesn't mind laying on it's side nearly as much--the oil travel and performance certainly does! I have no idea how some of the hillclimb guys in Europe keep 800hp engine together, unless they just accept that a rebuild is necessary after every event vis-a-vis quarter mile drag engines.
Have you ever been to a drag strip? Basically only top fuel do teardowns between runs. There's lots of people who drive to the strip, rip 9/10's all day and then drive back home.
They just accept their fate on the rebuilds part, I mean they’re hard racing a 2.5l engine that makes 800hp it’s not gunna survive that well in majority of engines that displacement or smaller
Baffle that sump gents....
I asked my dad why Vw bug flat air cooled lasted so long he was like” they had like 70hp son”
See also a lot of "long lasting" Toyota engines - very low power in stock form compared to the strength of the engine.
@@yowie0889everything is overbuilt like hell at Toyota and that’s why my ES350 is the most boring thing to drive ever
No, they didn't have "70hp" - they had much less.
Sooo, maybe don't build a Subaru engine past what it was designed for unless you engineer it? Personally, I avoid ALL turbo engines.
@@eskieman3948 More like 30-40
Got here due to the algorithm gods and was more than pleasantly surprised to see Mike Kojima’s familiar but slightly older face on the thumbnail. As a former devout reader of Sport Compact Car magazine in the 90s and early 00’s , I was exposed to Mr Kojima’s work in the past. It sure feels like meeting an old friend / family member after more than a quarter of a century.
I had a friend in high school that had a 1973 D/L. Seems like we were always changing headgaskets. He finally started to use beer cans as headgaskets. GREAT VIDEO!
This man should be protected by the Secret Service
Valuable knowledge he has
Shhhhhhh.....
So tired of people saying “this man needs to be protected” like as if you were in a higher position. Boy you need to be protected. No credentials don’t get you credit.
😂
@@miamibitch305fl we just like cars , engines and wrenching am sorry if you didn't understand the humour behind my comment
@@bobbyparesh9031I think his mind is like that recommended Subaru timing... Retarded 😂
This is the most relaxing discussion of Subaru engine building
A simple 4 cylinder is hard to mess up, but when turbos get involved it just introduces more potential problems.
Im making 286whp and 300wtq in my 2011 wrx... just street driven and doesn't get pushed too hard ever. Hopefully im safe. It has supporting mods like the oil pick up and cylinder 4 cooling mod.. gonna put an AOS on too but tired of being scared of owning a Subaru lol. Despite the constant fear of engine issues I love the character of the car, the sound and the AWD system.
If it is tuned conservatively you are fine.
@@motoiq It is. Appreciate your reply!
both my NA Subaru's blew.. stock, maintained well.. 03/08
My FRS has been okay though FA20.
it's a case by case sure, though won't be owning another from my experience...
@@UCMtouchstock FRS with FA20 nearing 160k miles. All original, I drive the piss out of it. Made sure the previous owner took care of it. I follow their maintenance intervals, use the old black MIJ Subaru oil filters. The newer blue filters sold/used at dealerships are taller but thinner in circumstance. I’ve heard they’re made by Fram. I also use Idemitsu oil.
I have a 2011 STi. It's been on a downpipe/intake for about 85k miles. Conservative tune. If anything it's slightly rich. I run Rotella 5-40 it's whole life. I haven't had any issues. I don't abuse the car or track it. Spirited sprints, no clutch drops etc. It's still running strong. For now.
This is why i always recommend motoiq whenever any Subaru owner asks for a recommendation
Another issue is 91 gas when 93 should be minimum to help with knock. Many states only have 91 available
precisely
The WRX vb manual calls for 91 and even says you can run 87 without affecting engine reliability and it doesn’t void the warranty. 91+ is recommended for optimal performance and fuel efficiency.
The knock sensor and computer keep the engine on the edge of pinging regardless of fuel grade for efficiency purposes. And it is basically never worthwhile to pay extra for expensive fuel; the fuel economy gain from automatic timing advance won't make up for the added cost.
I’m a 17 y/o subie owner and builder, did a built motor build this summer and I completely agree on every single point, you really do have to be a pretty specific type of car enthusiast to want big power out of a subaru 😂
You are a zen master of engine building TH-cam. I’m not even into the Japanese stuff but I watch to learn and your calm demeanor is refreshing in a sea of obnoxious TH-camrs.
Mike is the best. I could listen to him for hours.
Any thoughts on the FA24??
The fa engine is great
Definitely one of the happiest, knowledgeable engine builders I've ever come across in my time.
Really detailed and comprehensive report on EJ issues. I lost my 92X motor at less than 30k miles still under warranty and Saab/Subaru wouldn't cover it. Haven't trusted them since. The FAs are a little better but I still won't track one without the recommended mods and they are farther down the list of desirable cars for me.
why didnt they warranty it?
@@Gabriel-vj1cf It was 3 days over the warranty time period.
I find it so surprising the variance in experience. My family has had a LOT of Subarus but never had an engine go. My sister even had the timing belt slip on an old Impreza hatch I think and it drove to their garage and it didn't damage the engine (amazing, we thought anything happen to timing belt and engine is toast). I think the main difference is we've avoided turbos and aren't racing / tracking our cars, we just want pretty reliable really good AWD and good in the snow cars.
We have had the head gasket issue, but they're not that bad to get fixed or if you're buying used, just buy ones that had the gasket changed already. I'm pretty sure they finally fixed that with the new engines.
What I did have go wrong was the newer CVT transmission. I decided to keep a car due to not driving all the time, and at 55k miles the CVT started slipping. Luckily for me - Subaru is covering it under an extended warranty(not something I bought, I guess they just did it for everyone because of some issues.), so I have no real complaints - they're dealing with their bad part, no hassle from me needed. I get to drive a new Outback while waiting for them to fix mine.
Sounds a lot like the denied warranties for the FA24 motors that are in the GR86/BRZ. I nearly bought a GR86 myself but the more research I did the more I realized that I don't make enough money to tank a totalled engine block in car that has multiple known ways of totaling the engine.
FA's are extremely stout, significantly better than the EJs. Quite a few people making a lot of power on unopened FA's these days
The most best person to explain all Subaru’s flat 4 faults, keep up the good work sir, from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺👍
Well done. I enjoy watching someone who absolutely knows what they are talking about. Unreasonable expectations on what was originally designed as a family car into a turbo charged monster will cause problems and expensive disappointment. 61hp/liter for the stock NA engine to 121hp/liter for the factory STI and then expecting up to 320hp/liter to be reliable is a pretty good stretch as a reasonable expectation. LOLOL!
Love the Lancer just in the background if a video talking about their rival’s engines
99% of broken Subaru's are caused by broke Subaru owners.
Dam hit me where it hurts 😂
It's weird, here in the UK we've had Turbo / WRX Scoobies since 92, the STi since 94.
I never heard any issues of them except that when pushed far beyond the engines design window piston 3 could have issues at 100k or so. But even that was pretty rare. Maybe it's more on the post Hawk Eye models?
@@realMaverickBuckley I've never had any issues making 400whp on old EJ20K's. Change the timing belt regularly and keep the fluids fresh. I used to buy imported engines here in the US and never had a EJ20G or EJ20K with a problem.
Here in the US our Legacy in the early 90's had a closed deck 2.2L turbo that was indestructible and basically where the 22B came from. The crazy part about them were they were turbo with no I/C or special models had a coolant cooled I/C.
That’s fair.
I should have skipped college and just hung out around MotoIQ; would have learned so much more. Awesome channel.
This man is so knowledgeable, seems so humble too. Would love to just talk cars with him imagine how much you could learn in just one day..Closest I will get is watching his videos, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain things the way you do to us "Average Joe's" 👍
I’ve never felt more informed, understanding and relaxed in my life … wish my uni lecturers were like this but they don’t talk about scooby engines they say fancy business words and waste my time and money 🤣
Subaru performance engines are not built strong enough to withstand turbo-boost. They are not built like Toyotas, which are over engineered. This is a good thing. Thank you Toyota. Not referring to the new Tacomas! They SUCK!
What does NOT SUCK is this man who is explaining issues with the Subaru turbo engines. He really speaks well, explains everything very well, and definitely knows his stuff. These are thing that I remember learning in my tech-school years ago. Excellent video! Very well done!
Loved the technical overview paired with subtle humor sprinkled throughout the video. More of this content please 🙏🏽
I have no interest in Subarus and hung on every word till the end. You're the man Mike
you've helped educate me so much that i've been able to apply and use the information i've learned and get a new job. Thank you Mike!
Oh ojoi on o I I on in in iioiioo io ooooooo iol
@@rickc3783oioiiooiio j ojoiioioio? On oh l oioioooo ll yeah?
great video, I will never let my STI over 300whp since I will do track days a lot, all the money I will put is on oiling and reliability and cooling, if I wanna big horse power I will simply change platform
I bought a 2002 Subaru WRX that had rod bearing failure back in 2012. Rebuilt it myself, had the crank turned and ran underside rod bearings. That thing was awesome. Something happened to one of the timing belt pulleys because I was broke and didn’t buy new ones when I rebuilt it. Timing cover exploded and parts landed all over the highway. I sold the car and haven’t had another turbo Subaru since then but I plan to own another one eventually. I daily drive a 2000 Impreza outback and it’s a beast but I miss my WRX!
I daily drive a 2000 2.2L Impreza Coupe and it's wonderful, ...with a perfect balance of power and economy. I believe high zinc oils contribute to the destruction of turbo Subaru bearings as they are silver or silver plated and zinc in presence of acid corrodes silver. It is a known issue in locomotive engines with silver bearings- these require zinc-free oil. Subaru mentions to use 5w-30 Resource Conserving oil only. The 5w-30 RC oils category limits zinc severely. The first thing nearly all WRX fans do is put a thicker more zinc loaded oil into their engines. Thicker is fine but nearly all thicker oils have more zinc than RC oils. What oil did you use may I ask?
@@sezwo5774 I ran full synthetic mobile 1 if my memory is correct
@@HILLBILLY_HARD In that case you are off the hook, unless it was the previous owners' oil choice (if used car). Shell Rotella T6 is very popular among Subaru enthusiasts and it's loaded with zinc. I have a 2013 Forester XT, ...I use a mix of NAPA brand oils as they are Valvoline but with a weaker add pack, read: very little zinc in their thick 15w-50 synthetic oil.
@@HILLBILLY_HARD Haha, like your channel.
@@sezwo5774 thanks
I am buying a 24 wrx, I plan to keep it stock just cause I don't have the money to replace motors and transmissions. I think the 270 horse is more than enough for a daily driver. I am thrilled to be getting one and I keep watching videos like this so I don't fall for the next shiny object. Keep it simple is best. Thanks for the great video.
Keep that oil changed with good quality GF-6A synthetic to keep those direct injection carbon particles from harming your engine. Change every 3OOO miles and run a 10w40. Keep it stock and it will last.
@@motoiq I will thank you. I will keep tuned in to stay on top of the newest tips.
@@motoiqhey Mike, would 5w30 be ok?
Subaru should watch this video to make their vehicles 1000 times more reliable than what they currently are from what you’re saying in this video. Very good info. Thanks for sharing.
MAN Mike! Every video of yours I am more and more impressed with your deep understanding of Performance+ engine building. You are very good at explaining complicated aspects in a way that is easier to understand. You are a Made genius! Thanks for all your teachings! I really appreciate you My Brother! You are giving me a deeper general understanding for mopowababy! 😎👍
Subaru engineers has to hire you and listen very carefully to improve their engines.
They don’t care. Prior STi owner and current Type R owner now. I dunno, they just lost it.
Man, I wish it was just because of tuning. A few months back I was looking at cheap subarus to buy one. Holy smokes, the amount of stock subarus that are out there with major engine damage is mind boggling. I've owned stock subarus before and I have owned several modified German cars before. Just one of my well maintained subarus had more issues than ALL of my supposedly unreliable German cars combined. Was really eye opening.
People talk about Japanese reliability, but there's such a range. Some Japanese stuff truly is indestructible, and some is absolute tissue paper.
@@JETZcorpand some Japanese stuff is becoming French (ehm Nissan)
@@ianriggs Sure. But Subaru isn't one of them. Even old Japanese stuff was pretty varied. It is impossible to kill a 1970 Kawasaki 125, but it's quite a challenge to keep a 1970 Kawasaki 350 going.
@@JETZcorp I was just kidding I just think it's hilarious that Nissan merged with Renault. Definitely suffered some quality and reliability issues since that merger tho that's for sure
@@JETZcorp I guess that's what makes a Subaru, a Subaru 😂
My 2014 turbo Forester blew the engine at 47,000 miles. Subaru ended up paying about 1/2 the cost of replacement. The bill was $6,700. It also has a sensor that gets wet which operates the key fob and that had to be replaced 3 times.
My neighbor's brand new Subaru blew the transition within one month. I will never buy another Subaru again.
As long as you keep it stock and do proper maintenance, it will last you a long time. I have not had any issues with my wrx so far.
Your comment gives me hope. I’m in the market for a new WRX and am reconsidering after watching this but I also don’t plan on beating on it or excessive modifications
Glad I found this video. I'm trying to talk my kid out of buying a used turbo charged Subaru. He doesn't have the money for repairs and needs a reliable car for work.
If you are in the snow I’d suggest the 2010 or so 3.6 legacy it brings the power of a WRX with so much less in the way of reliability given its not turbocharged and isn’t being pushed hard. Well it depends on the budget you have as you probably are looking at older subies, then I’d suggest the 3.0R if they are dying for good power or a Honda. I love subies but Honda is the king of cheap but indestructible, that old 1.6 single cam will never fail
Get the kid a Honda Prelude from a dry climate w/ no rust.
Fun car, 200hp, great handling, reliable.
@@cecilthecavetroll9743I feel like a 9th or 10th gen civic Si is a better bet than a prelude. Preludes are pretty old at this point
@@bryanribey true. In that case yes, a 9th gen Si (my favorite) or even perhaps a 7-8th generation Accord Coupe.
Just stumbled across this channel in my recommended feed, subbed. This gentleman clearly loves engines and sharing knowledge.
Another great Subaru video! Taking into account this and other videos I've come up with this plan.
1. Keep it cheap, keep it fun. If you're not laughing if/when it blows, you spent too much.
2. Don't build the engine, it's not worth the machining cost, work around the flaws.
3. Don't shove power in down low, the block/rods can't handle it.
4. When time comes for more power go with cams and dry sump (cheaper than a built engine) to be able to safely spin it to higher rpms (~8-9) without oil starvation, and put the power in there.
5. Throw out the restrictive cast UEL manifold that just holds hot exhaust in the cylinder and increases detonation, run the twin scroll or other EL tubular manifold. Probably also run a turbo with a decently large hot side, unlike most stock fitment Subaru turbos.
6. Don't try to push a heavy car with all this, start with the lightest possible car.
Stay under 330 or so whp for a track-driven car, with Ethanol maybe 390 or so. You don't need cams for this power level and if you do a cam change, you should pul the engine so it is not recommended. You don't need a dry sump unless you run a billet case, are at high power levels or you pull more than 1.2 G's.
@@motoiq It's a street/track car doing ice racing, rallycross, and maybe a few drag passes. I've got less than 1500$ into the motor and it's in a GL Hatch so curb weight is only around 2300lbs. I think I'm going to aim maybe more for 350-400 full rip, but if I were to do longer track sessions, I'd bring that down closer to 250-300. Either way, it's pretty scary quick already with the wastegate wired wide open haha
You don't need cams for anything under 600HP. If you want to rev high thats your valves, valve guides, retainers, ect.
@@Anonymoose0913 I think that's the mindset that causes people to blow shit up. You can make 600hp sure with a stock bottom end. But you're pushing a bunch of cylinder pressure into a not very rigid block and not very strong rods. With stock bottom end tuning, you want to soften up that cylinder pressure by making your power at higher rpm.
@Levibetz Your talking about the bottom end. I'm talking about where you said for power you need cams, Subaru actually built the heads AMAZINGLY well on these EJ's and they can flow more than enough air for up to 600HP. If your wanting to be able to reach higher RPM then your looking at the your valvetrain, but for actual HP numbers the stock cams are good up until 600HP, all you need to make that 600HP number is a port and polish. Above that 600HP is when you start looking at something like BC 272 cams.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 125000 miles. Changed oil ever 6000. Not one problem yet. Oh it’s stock at 250hp. Can’t ask more from a car.
Everyone with an EJ motor should watch this, all very in depth and unbiased
Yet another knowledgeable channel mentioning Out Front. I'm really glad i decided to ship my block out to them.
Another great video Mike 🤘🤘
First thing I blew on my STi was the crank. Must have been that distorted machine work you mentioned. Thanks for the great overview!
Wow that doesnt happen often. Was this on a built or stock motor?
@@motoiq It was a light build with bolt ons, turbo and a tune! The engine had been machined though, supposedly to spec. Only made 280 AWHP for 2 months. Broke it passing someone on the freeway. Everyone agreed they hadn't seen it before. I have both pieces in the closet for fun.
I wonder if it needed align boring and they didn't check it.
@@michaelshaw6242where did it break? Main journal or rod journal? If you post pictures somewhere I'd be interested in looking.
It would be interesting to compare side-by-side a stock Subaru engine with a stock flat Porsche engine to see how Porsche reinforced their castings.
For sure! I always wondered why Subaru struggles where Porsche has endured reliably. Just this video alone, you can tell there are a-lot of cut corners though. Porsche don’t fuk around.
@@NoName-tf2et I'm not that knowledgeable, but isn't there some price gap that makes the comparison a bit weak? To me Porsche and Subaru don't play in the same league so cheaper designed/built Subie engines isn't a big surprise.
@@bennylloyd-willner9667 you can also argue the guys buying porches arnt modding and tunning the hell out of em
@@bennylloyd-willner9667 I think Subaru should partner with Toyota to make them a flat 4. It would last 300k miles.
@@danmarjenka6361 why not, they did the BRZ (or something similar) together. The head gasket thingy that is popular to say of "all Subarus" aren't true of all engines tho. I would like stats on the longevity of all manufacturers cars in "percentage of distance travelled" or something similar with price included in calculation. Often stats like that even things out.
This is why I paid professionals to make me ej20 open deck block to closed deck stroker shortblock.Forged, Pins, rear thrust, line boring, all the good stuff. Cost around 5000 euros. For the reability you get for the money is so much better than buying 2nd hand stock engine or built engine which have unknown history
This guy really knows his business, lot of knowledge and excellent personality! God bless you
My buddies VB almost blew up a few days ago because his turbo oil cooler (idk its technical name) had the two bolts that seal the gasket on the bottom of the turbo completely back out and cause a massive oil leak. No low oil warning just a shitton of smoke. When we took off the metal undertray, there were 2 bolts just chilling standing straight up like a cartoon. We realigned the gasket and put the bolts back in. It had lost 3.5 quarts of oil lost in a matter of minutes.
Great honest Vid! Many years ago I came close to buying an STI Bug Eye. A good friend / Mechanic schooled me on the benefits of an iron, closed deck block. I went that route (4G63). 15 years later, still making good ethanol power.
Fascinating
Fluent, clear, concise. No wasteful , slovenly, gimmicky talk. No one trying to be a comedian. Just sound, straightforward, totally unpretentious presentation and so nice to listen to.
Here is knowledge, experience, sound mind, that is blest with the gift of communication.
I’m from a large bore, slow speed marine engineering background with a life long interest in engines, so some of this was way over my head, but it didn’t diminish the pleasure of listening and watching.
When I commenced my apprenticeship, an “ old hand” said when he was a young engineer, his elderly chief engineer said to him, “Never forget, engineering is the science of exactitude.”
This man is the epitome of that.
Love the blend of old school thoroughness applied to state if the art technology.
My own interpretation is that accuracy is a pre requisite, not an optional extra. I saw and heard that here. Well produced video.
Thank you so much for a brilliant, relaxed and relaxing video.
I have a 2011 subaru forester i bought used odemeter read 103,000. Starts and runs great. Diagnostic scan read 81,400 miles. According to online info the head gasket was made more durable for longer lasting. The timing belt was replaced with a timing chain for longer lasting. The company was trying to improve the enging to give it more miles. Like anything else it burns out.
I had a jdm 1994 impreza wrx and yes the head gasket did blow but it was old and had no service history but it was worth every penny for the amazing performance
Every Subaru guy I've talked to gets mad when I say their motors aren't as tough as some other brands and they always say the EJ motor is bullet proof.
The owners tend to lie. This brand owners will never admit the truth😂
@@ontarioman6301 definitely
Then you found some crazy fanboys, everyone knows the EJ25 is the worst, I don’t like turbos anyway so I’ve gone for the H6 3.0R
@@ontarioman6301 Well, I own one, zero issues, and I'm happy with.... and I'd beg anyone to call me a liar.
Ive had a blitzen now for 18 years from a EJ 20 twin turbo 2 litre from Japan regular service high grade synthetic oil and factory filters and now it's done 240 thousand Km. Only ever did the cambelts and brake pads since I've had it and doesn't burn oil from oil change to oil change no leaks and motor still tight when switched off on ignition..
Personally I can't fault the EJ 20 engine to me it's truly reliable and cost free and I always use 98 octane gas
Mike, you're comments. Remind me of Jay Meagher from Real Sreet. When he talked about how he was building V8 engines and all of a sudden, there were so many people trying to get him to build EJs they'd apy twice as much for an engine that took half as long 👍
Sounds like the biggest cause of Subaru engine failures is the owner. They mod the crap out of it, then drive it like it's a race car. No wonder it fails.
I love this guy. He's either just in from a surf session or blew up a fattie. He can barely contain a chuckle as he explains what will become "I told you so" for many who can't understand why their 550+ hp motors. But so clear and concise, with a fab vocab.
My Baja has 210,000 miles and has been knocking for the last 20,000. No burning oil. I baby it and use it as my winter driver, putting only about 3,000/year on it. Fingers crossed.
Where has this channel been all my life? Excellent content. Subscribed and can't wait for more 🎉
Hmm. It is well known that most of the issues are from people who improperly mod their engine. If you bought a stock engine and left it as such, you are likely fine. There are many factors that come into play. It is quite possible there isn't a lot of headroom in stock form, which may be "bad" for people who want to mod it, but that means you simply need to factor that into your modifications and upgrade accordingly. Also, many of the other issues (related to head gaskets, etc) were mainly only on older EJ25 engines so they are all pretty old now. If you use the more robust head gasket used on the turbo models, you won't have head gasket issues going forward (on your NA engine).
I dont even own subaru ever, but the tech know how explained is sooooo good. Thank u Sir❤
This legend is out here literally teaching Subaru how to make their own engines.
Amazing knowledge!! Props to you sir!
I have almost 200,000 miles on my 2005 forester. Its pretty amazing.
I love to see moto iq do a comparison between subaru and Porsche boxer engine
Good idea
Driving from New York to Toronto last night a Subaru WRX 2002 that over took my Civic Hatch up the mountain and around the corner on I-80 North. When we came around the bend he was in the median with his hood open and smoke pouring out. Dark at night in the snow out on a mountain in Pennsylvania is not an ideal place to be.
What a crock...
These cars tend to knock, and need fuel and also run hot. Gotta watch outside environment factors, make sure the engine isn’t sitting and good tune and you’ll be fine.
Sounds like a lot of work to make sure our engines run “fine” 😂
Family have had 5 Subaru’s, 1 Impreza’s, 1 Outback, 2 XV’s and 1 2000 WRX. Never had any engine problems with any of them. The 2004 Outback was written off due to hail damage with 270kms, daughters 1998 Impreza sold with 340kms as we wanted something with airbags and 1 XV sold due to an accident but replaced with a newer XV. My 2000 WRX has 353kms, still has the original engine, gearbox, rear diff and running gear. Regularly run the engine to 6500 rpm plus, use gears and rely on revs rather then torque. Regular oil changes every 6 months are essential to making these things work.
You hit the nail on the head in the first minute. In 'mild' tune they are highly reliable engines.
That's garbage. Mine had ringland failure before 70k. It is completely stock.
I used to love Subies when the WRX came stateside. But that engine gave me nightmares and I did not trusr driving it on a small roadtrip. Three cars later, I give up and going back to Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus forever. If your car is not reliable, there is really no reason to be driving/buying it. Also, only select mechanics know how to fix it which sucks balls.
Great Video, honest technical reasoning. It also made me happy with my choices for my new engine. My family had a Subaru dealership from 1971 until the early 80"s, I grew up with them and still love them today.
Had a 05 legacy gt limited wagon, only “mod” was a catless up pipe. Motor went at 130,000miles. It spent a lot of time at Subaru for wheel bearings, a/c, and electrical problems also. I loved that car and then hated it. Sad to see it go, but glad to never see it again.
I’m sorry about your experiences. I’m on my 3rd legacy. My ‘97 I got rid of at 116k, my 2010 2.5 at 79k, and I still have my ‘16 3.6R.
Heard mixed things, but I’ve never had issues.
@@cecilthecavetroll9743 no need to be sorry. That was just my experience with what I thought was gonna be a great family car, but it let me down more times than I’d like to remember and the Subaru experience and dealership was also a letdown. They wanted to ignore issues or pretend the problems were normal until the warranty ran out.
The correct oil and filters also help with them lasting longer and regular service.
What i get from this is stock engine with tuning and track use = kaput. Stock engine with normal road use = mostly no problem.
We only needed the first few minutes, but I'm so glad we got the full thing!
Don’t own a Subaru but a pleasure to listen to! I subscribed.
@MotoIQ - Great information; definitely warrants a rewatch to fully digest everything.
He's a good guy, he smiles and explains everything so well, it reminded me of someone on acid with that permanent smile you get, not every time, but once in awhile you get lucky with the permanent smile. It hurts smiling like that. That's what mushroom packages should say on them,(if you get a smile longer than fore hours see a doctor. Or find more sad people.
I have a ‘06 OB H6. No problems 197k miles. I do like though how this good man sets a disclaimer at the jump. Turbocharged and young race prone kids blow these engines. It is not a race car. This is not a muscle/race car or a Honda. Great vid.