Why is He The Most Hated Man? - A Look Into Barcus Wroot and Wulbren Bongle (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- Everyone who has played Baldur's Gate 3 dislikes Wulbren Bongle. But why? Alternatively, a small look into Barcus and Wulbren.
Clip Sources:
Fireworks scene - • [BG3] Barcus Wroot rar...
Act 3 clips - • Save the Gondians - Ba...
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If Wulbren Bongle has 0 haters, I must be dead
There’s a whole subreddit dedicated lmaooo
When I had found that subreddit, I immediately joined and sent it to my friend.
I hate him so much the gondians are the homies and rip Barcus I hit the wrong lever 😂
@@ysgramorssoupspoon Not only that, there is a Song.
Better get that scroll of revivify ready 📜
the second he was mean to my little buddy Barcus, he made an enemy for life
Same I was about to FIGHT
I saved him in my first playthrough now I leave him in to rot fuckn mini terror cunt
the worst part about Wulbren is that he made Barcus think he's a good person deep down 💀
I just really liked Barcus and was super down to help him with whatever he needed. My hate for Wulbren mostly just comes from how he treats Barcus. Poor little guy doesn't deserve that abuse.
Yeah. I mean, Barcus just has this plucky hero energy, he isn't some great fighter or adventurer, but he risks everything over and over again just to save his friend. Seeing said friend just verbally abuse him immediately after being freed is just heartbreaking.
@@shizachan8421not to mention how Wulbren is hardly even thankful to you for freeing him
@@dragonslayergu1161 Its like "What if Frodo was verbally abusive to Sam"
Most of my Wulbren hate is a joke, but it stems from the sheer betrayal. Barcus building up Wulbren as this great guy over 3 meetings, you FINALLY get to save him, he helps you free everyone, seems he lives up to the hype. Then you see how dismissive he is of Barcus, and how much of a selfish dickhead he is. Then it's 100% fuck this guy, even before he asks you to kill a bunch of innocent people! Then after all the work I put into saving as many Gondian's as possible, freeing the hostages, blowing up the steelwatch after fighting the strongest steelwatch, all in one ingame day bc I was worried Gortash would catch on, then Wulbren has the nerve to show up and try to fight me. He suuuucks!
My first playthrough, saving those Gondians was a disaster. And by ”disaster” I mean I freed 3 captives, and only 2 survived.
@@superbad8008 only one survived for me, then wulbrat popped up and was like "finish the job, idiot" >:(
that was my 'ur done' moment bc i was tolerating his presence at that point only bc I was hoping after all i'd done for the gnomes they'd help me out come end game.
I think the beef started when he was like "You barely did anything to help me get out of Moonrise" as if I didn't completely wipe out the entire lower level of the map to make sure they were safe.🙄 But mostly I did it for the tieflings because Rolan is my Roman Empire and I live to see him smile lmao
We do it all for Rolan, Wulbren just happens to benefit as well
In one of my playthroughs I'm playing a Deurgar, and it's even worse when you meet Barcus. If you save him he literally just like walks up to you and holds his hands out for you to shackle him and is all like "okay go ahead, get it over with. You're a grey dwarf, I'm a deep gnome, I know how this goes."
My poor lawful good paladin had to convince him she wasn't going to enslave him
WAIT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT'S SO SAD!!!!
@@PocketLeaves Same if you play a Drow. He also assumes you're trying to make him owe you one when you rescue him the second time.
Yep, I got the same reaction for my drow tav. Poor dude.
Yeah, if you're a drow, he is resigned to you enslaving him.
There is an option to say something like "I could enslave you if that's what you want".
And then, he realizes you are teasing him. It's great.
that makes me even madder that there was no unique reaction to me playing a deep gnome, I was looking forward to it and then he has the same line about prejudice, RIP
Wulbren is the Nazeem of BG3.
Oh my god you’re right
Looks like he needs a first class pass to the cloud district then.
Ha! You're so right
Now we’re talking
Except we can't German Suplex him every chance you get. 😅
I want Larian to include the number of times players called Wulbern a prick in their next statistics release
i think the thing that makes wulbren so universally hated is he doesn’t even have a tragic reason for being evil. gortash was sold into slavery and demonstrates the continuing cycle of abuse, Orin similarly suffers at the hands of those closest to her. The emperor is alien, but at least he clearly seeks to survive above all else. Wulbren just has absolutely no realistic reason to be so completely genocidal. it would be understandable if he hated Zanner specifically but his resentment is just way too huge for anyone to reasonably get behind him.
if you look at genocidal maniacs throughout history generally speaking the successful ones have been very charismatic in order to accomplish their goals. Wulbren doesn’t even have that. he’s just an unlikable jerk lol
then on top of *all that* he’s completely irredeemable! So even if you want to like the guy you basically can’t because he will never consider that he’s wrong
Yeah, and Kethric was driven by grief. Shadowheart, Astarion and Laezel had awful lives that made them what they are and each of them have potential redemption arcs. Even Minthara was raised in the cutthroat world of the drow and then brainwashed by the cult, which makes her sympathetic even if she never really changes her view of the world or her ambitions. I'm sure Wulbrun has had some bad stuff happen to him, but it's not made clear how it influenced who he is now and even when proven wrong, he learns nothing nor changes his genocidal mindset. Plus he's mean to my guy Barcus for no reason.
wulbren is an asshole like aradin is, but wulbren got to do more
Wulbren is targeting the group that got his group kicked out of baldur's gate, isn't he?
You’ve heard of “casual racism” Wulbren is a professional racist. Gnomazi you might say.
1. I hate Wulbren
2. I will say aparently you can find his parents grave in Baldurs Gate....and its supposed to be hinted at that when he came to the surface with his family....that his parents were killed by the gondians somehow?? not an excuse but xD it would at least give SOME REASON fo rhim to hate them
You can find Wulbren's diary in the abandoned mining camp in the Under dark where he says he hopes Marcus stays away implying even Wulbren resents what he has become and doesn't want Barcus to see him like that.
OMG that is so tragic for them.
Yeah, I saw that journal too and it made me even MORE angry with him in Act 3. The way he treats Barcus is inexcusable.
I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who killed Barcus on their first playthrough because they stopped reading after the word "break" but before the word "release".
This is what I did, and it reminds me of Mitch Hedberg and his "do not disturb" joke.
I did the same. oops!
😅😅😅 In my defense, I was gaming all the way to 2am. I was drop dead tired by that point. I was so punch drunk I thought that if I *threw the release lever, it would release the ROPE BOUND captive* from his bindings.
strong "four halfling barbarians" vibes in this thread
@@corpsehandler5321 Hey hey, to be fair, they did it deliberately. We were all just very…… unlucky……
I think most of us have stuck out our necks once for someone who didn't deserve it, or felt belittled or demeaned by someone important to us. The situation between Barcus and Wulbren is relatable even if you read nothing more into it, and for that reason alone, Bongle becomes detestable. We can project a little of ourselves into them because it's familiar. Hopefully most of us don't have a Gortash or an Orin in our lives, but I feel like everyone has met a Wulbren Bongle.
these little clusters of gnome shaped pixels really do convey those mundane, very human mini-betrayals that pepper our lifetimes so perfectly.
I dare say that most of us are fortunate enough to never have been acquainted with a megalomaniacal tyrant or a murderous lunatic in our lives (as most who got in deep with these people would hardly ever survive the ordeal for long), yet i certainly don't think anyone even in their early teens, who has met more than 100 people in their lives, to not have at least one run-in with at least one Wulbren Bongle. Dicks like that, unlike the likes of Gortash & Orin, are a dime a dozen after all.
I killed Wulbren in my second playthrough, but it's actually worse because Barcus faints from shock, cries, and then falls into a deep depression. If you try to comfort him, he gives you the Brilliant Retort, but never speaks again. If you ask to trade with him, he just hangs his head and responds with, "Hm?"
It broke my heart. I had to reload and save that little weasel.
You probably know this now, but you can kill him during act 3 and it’s so cathartic
@@Jimothyjohns
Oh, I did! 😏
I think part of what makes him so dislikable is that he's evil, but not in a way that feels exaggerated or cartoonish. No maniacal laughter, or intensely evil backstory, he just does bad things. And not even bad in the Minthara-threatening-to-kill-everyone way, just morally wrong and thats it
It's straight up the same reason people hate Delores Umbridge over Voldemort, most people have MET an Umbridge.
Minthara at least has a sense of pragmatism to her evil.
@@rustyjones7908 and she fully owns it. No attempt to justify herself or appeal to some twisted sense of morality
@@anna-flora999Well, she outright denies accountability for what she did while enthralled.
Barcus sees his clan's only mistake as siding with Sarevok. It's an impressive level of hypocrisy that he blames the Gondians for indiscriminate tinkering when his clan was trying to war profiteer with a Bhaalspawn.
@@hardgay7537 she denies responsibility for what she did while literally mind controlled, yes. But she fully owns her own personal evil
I love how in a game with truly vile and disgusting tyrants, literal mu*der fetishism, torturers ect ect
We all come together collectively and hate Wulbren
This isn't Tiktok. You're allowed to say murder here.
I didn't hate him. Thought he was just an ass but then the number of people who aren't in the game is low so whatevs. Then when I freed the Gondians and explained what happened and he still insisted on killing and blaming them? A hater was born lol
Wulbren the typa guy to mad he didn't get more presents for his birthday.
Why is this the most accurate thing I’ve ever read
The type of dude to be like "Just give me the receipt so I can get something I actually like."
It's important to note the actual context of what the Ironhand Gnomes meant to the earlier BG games. The Ironhands mention it a little in 3, but don't give you the full context. They built every goddamn contraption that the BBEG of BG2 (Saverok) needed to nearly destroy the city and being, probable, world conquest. They BUILT the Iron Throne, which we only visit in its destroyed state. Unlike the Gondians, who were literally forced into servitude, The Ironhand willingly joined Saverok to enrich themselves and ensure their own survival. Wulbren is already severely in the wrong the second he equates the Gondians as being WORSE than the Ironhands.
Finding Wulbren’s journal where he says he misses Barcus makes me so mad!
Seeing that journal and then meeting him is the epitome of "They had me in the first half, not gonna lie."
I've been trying to figure these guys out so I killed Barcus just to see what his corpse would say.
I asked him what he was doing top side and he said he was looking for 'wulbren, my wulbren'.
Maybe it was a bit more than friendship from Barcus side…
But damn now I really want to romance barcus and treat him well 😂
Curious to see after the latest patch if the Gondians have finally developed some self-preservation instincts compared to before, the Foundry was an absolute nightmare, and the one silver lining was helping our man Barcus finally stand up for himself after so long being trodden on by friend and foe alike.
i just got done with that part and they are so much better now, they misty step to high points for advantage and consistently use blur. all the melee will swarm the banites and avoid the steel watch now too
@@thegreatbroohighny9766Thank Goooood. I am on a new run and currently in Act 2 right now and was already dreading that quest. That and the underwater prison... where those idiots kept blocking the ladders to the submarine.
The only bad thing about usurping Wulbren so Barcus can become leader of the Ironhands is that it means you can’t throw Wulbren into the sea. Ive liked Barcus from the moment he was amazed and delighted that my Drow character only wanted compensation and not to enslave him 😂
Also, if Barcus isn’t alive, Nere or Moonrise killing the Ironhands is probably for the best. In game they’re extremists with nothing to lose, with access to explosives so powerful it could level a city. Not the best combination.
Barcus was such a lovely surprise in my first playthrough. I found myself rooting for him, feeling protective of him, and finally feeling **inordinately*** proud of his character arc. What can I say, i love underdog npcs. I felt the same way for Sutherland in Dragon Age. if you know, you know.
The Sutherland questline is one of my favourites. Every time there is a new quest for him, everything else is ignored until it's dealt with. 😂 And Bull get to go nowhere near the Storm Coast until that whole questline is concluded. We are taking no chances. 😅
Everyone hates Wulbren and says his hate for gondians is injustified until one of them Misty Steps into a self-destruction
On my first play through I tried the “good” path to disabling the Steel Watch… but all the Gondians died and I had to get the info on how to work the terminal from a note on Toobin’s corpse and a book on a nearby shelf, but I used the terminal and not Wulbren’s bomb. “I should still get the good ending,” I thought. Nope. After the place exploded Wulbren congratulated me on all the Gondians being dead and Barcus wouldn’t talk to me. I was accidentally evil.
I actually didn't know you COULD work with the Gondians until recently. My first time going through the foundry, I was more of a sneak in start fights with that advantage, and hope for the best. BUT they did recently fix the Gondian's ai I've heard, so it should be easier to keep them alive.
@@PocketLeavescan confirm, just did the foundry questline a few days ago. they are still idiots but held on long enough to take out the steel watchers and bane worshippers
@@PocketLeaves I might actually have to try again. They were definitely danger prone back when I did it. I’ve taken Gortash’s deal on every run since then just to avoid making Wulbren happy.
When I get around to my honor mode playthrough, I don't like the Gordian's chances. They don't act like the want to survive those fights and I have always had to reload at least once to save those little lemmings. Once one gnome misty stepped onto the roof to pull another steel watcher into the fight out of no where.
I completely gave up on saving all the Gondians in the Steel Foundry when one of them ran away, getting opportunity attacked by 2 Banites, then Misty Stepping back to the same Banites, and just... ending his turn. Used them as meat shields after that.
The voice actor did SUCH an extremely believable job when Wulbren goes off on hid diabtribe against the Gondians and his terrorists bombing their foundry. He gave one of the best, most extreme, anger and hate filled speeches when you talk to him about their plans and justification for their act of terrorism they are planning and want you to help carry out.
After that, and having already seen his dismissive, arrogant, narcissistic behavior at Last Light and later, the actor manages to give us such a believable, extreme, radicalized presentation of who Wulbren is, it is just impossible to not have strong feelings, even if to any small degree you empathize with the position the Ironhand gnomes are in.
No matter what’s going on with Wulbren, he ain’t disrespecting my boy like that. Not in this house 😤
There is only one thing I can empathize with Wulbren Bongle on - his hatred for the Gondians.
Seriously, the lengths I went through trying to protect/save the little bastards from their cruel oppressors only to have these same Gondians get themselves killed by trying to fight enemies that clearly outmatch them was infuriating!
Get yourselves to safety and let me handle the evil doers, you little bastards!
Misty stepping into an explosion 😭
I think Wulbren makes a good first impression when you first meet him and then it just goes down from there 😂. That and the fuck Wulbren song is pretty catchy. I start singing it every time I talk to him.
The way this relationship made me feel seen. The gay who’s in love with his childhood best friend who is now an asshole who will never love you back and you’re being delusional about it. 🙃
Ooof, hope you got out of that friendship okay. Sending you hugs, stranger.
Honestly my first thought on talking to barcus is that if I was thrown into the world of the sword coast, I'd be barcus. It was at the moment I decided to protect that little bugger at all costs. (it didn't help that later on Wulbren reminded me way too much of my best friend that I just keep appearances around these days. Poor barcus.)
"If you are smart." Come on please you can't tell me you didn't launch the Deep Gnome more then once just for shits and giggles. I save right there every single game just so I can watch the little man fly.
I have had my friends save there so they could see what the release lever would do.
*The Dark Urge approves
The diss track against Wulbren is epic though.
I’m convinced that the defining factor on why nobody likes Wulbren is because he’s not hot enough for us to overlook him being an asshole.
I think you're onto something there!
Doenst have the astarion effect of having his attractiveness outweigh the rancid personality
@@Im.A1ex Astarion kind of makes sense when you get to know him.
@@rustyjones7908got to know him, still think he’s rancid
He's the only person in the entirety of Baldur's Gate who is against the *police having death robots* because that is an inherently bad thing rather than just opposing the death robots because the wrong person has them. For a real world comparison the Steel Watch are basically drones. He's the only person with a principled opposition to the police having drones that have the authority to summarily knock out children. By comparison Florrick who is a totally great and good leader of Baldur's Gate is 100% for the death robots joining the police and even talks lovingly about how great it will be to use them in war as well.
Naturally, being the only person in Baldur's Gate with an actual systemic critique of serious societal flaws, he gets Killmongered hard and starts kicking puppies so we can stop him because he *goes to far* and we can defend the power structures that were completely cool with having police death robots.
And as you say, because he's not as hot as Michael B Jordan no one notices the Killmongering.
(It's me I am the Wulbren liker)
"The most hated character of all time"
Rachel from Tower of god, "hold my beer"
Part of the reason, I think, is that Wulbren isn’t just mean and evil; he’s a straight-up bully. He’s the popular kid and Barcus is the person who tries their best to be friends with him, but is mocked and bullied in return. So when he finally stands up to Wulbren, it’s so satisfying. It’s a bit of wish fulfillment for all of us who were bullied and wished standing up against our bullies would go as well as it does for Barcus.
So. I'll admit. Every time I saw this guy. I end up singing the diss track during my 5th playthrough. [Belladonna. Draconic sorcerer.]
Also. Belladonna was definitely getting tired of his nonsense. Especially at the end of the questline. I am happy she taught Barcus to stand up for himself and it was satisfying.
My new favorite song is the "F*ck Wulbren Bongle" rap.
In my first playthrough, I was so excited to hear about this friend that Barcus was constantly going on about. I thought he just had to be awesome because I loved Barcus so much by the time we make it to the Last Light Inn.
The other disappointment and betrayal I felt when I first told Wulbren that Barcus sent me and he spoke of him so dismissively...
I was willing to give him a chance though. After breaking them out, I ran to tell Barcus Wulbren was there, and he sprinted off to see his friend with me on his heels.
I was expecting exclamations of joy and relief, some tearful hugs. What I say was the idle loop of Barcus trying to get Wulbren's attention and being ignored.
In the actual conversation, he just straight up broke Barcus's heart, and Barcus was still determined to defend him when I called Wulbren out.
That was the moment I decided I was going to be the best friend Barcus could ever get. I wanted to make him forget about Wulbren because if Wulbren couldn't appreciate the loyalty and dedication that Barcus showed, risking enslavement and death on the meager evidence of a bloody necklace, he didn't deserve him.
I felt so smug when Barcus finally called me his friend in Act 3, I did victory dance.
(I resisted punting Wulbren into the ocean, but my tolerance is decreasing with each playthrough. I'm going to snap one day.)
Barcus is one of my favorite NPCs, like in the top five I go out of my way to give them the happiest endings the game allows me.
In my first playthrough I didn't meet Wulbren at all. I went to the mausoleum and the temple of Sharr before I even visited Moonrise Towers, so when I finally got there it was already under attack by the Nightsong and the harpers and I only found Wulbren's corpse down in the mind flayer colony.
It also means that I've never seen Ketheric before the fight, so he was a really mysterious figure for me for the entire act 2. I also had no idea what to expect inside the tower.
Barcus is really relatable to me as someone who used to be best friends with someone only to always be mistreated and thrown aside, but I still considered them a good friend because I didn't know any better. I only found out 8 years later when I made *real* friends that I was never even their friend to begin with
He's, literally, the hero BG needs. A lot of people are assholes who are under immense pressure to make the right thing happen under difficult circumstances.
A fun, much lighter vid on a side character we absolutely should hate. :)
I think part of why it's so easy to hate Bongle is that he's a very relateable kind of evil.
We all defend Astarion because he's hott and funny and a woobie. We know his sad back story, and believe he had no real choice when it came to the hundreds of people whose lives he ruined for Cazador.
Many of us defend Gotash, Kethric, or even Orin, because all of them are hott and tragic in their own ways. And their evil is over the top and absurd and hard to relate to.
But Wulbren Bongle?
He's a petty, narcisitic jerk who thinks the world revolves around him and his cause. He has no real gratitude to anyone who has helped him, no matter what perils they endured. He writes off Barkus as a pest, despite Barkus having arguably been the reason some of us went out of our way for Bongle in the first place. He has zero compassion or empathy.
We have all known people who seem a lot like Bongle. And we never learn his tragic back story, so we have little reason to cheer for him.
And very few people look at a short, skinny bald guy and think "Yeah, he's hott."
I mean, other than Barkus.
My reason for hating Wulbren is both personal and probably also kind of universal. As an undiagnosed, neurodivergent teenager I didn't have a lot of friends and I still don't, but the ones I have are incredibly important to me and I would do a lot for them.
Enter my former best friend, let's call him Eli, who was in his early 20's when we met, while I was barely a teen. I looked up to him and he influenced me a lot, at the time I thought for the better. Wasn't until he hurt other people who are important to me that I realized he had done everything he could to make me codependent with him and had crushed my self-esteem countless times to keep me small.
I see a lot of Eli in Wulbren, and a lot of myself in Barcus, especially with Barcus not wanting to hear that Wulbren isn't good for him, when they reunite at last light inn, after Wulbren openly berated and yelled at him.
Screw Wulbren, seriously. And for that matter, screw Eli, too.
I think a core component of the flavor the Wulbren hate train is the fact that his story with Barcus perfectly captures the one-sided friendship dynamic that most of us have experienced at some point in our lives. Upon reuniting the gnomes, Wulbren is pictured at the "cool kids table", excluding Barcus and the player character after getting through a very difficult quest. Not only did we a the player experience the thankless act of helping him, but we can see how Barcus has gone through the same thing on a deeply personal level. That preoccupation with his own problems, his own 'circle', and his blatant manipulation of others around him for a less than just goal are all right there for the player to witness. And his comeuppance won't even happen until the latter half of act 3.
Wulbren is one of the best minor villains in any game. Props to the voice actor for portraying him with such confidence, and while transitioning to a needlessly cruel bully in such a visceral way.
I’m in Act 2 of my first run (obviously I don’t mind spoilers since I’m here lol) and I just freed the prisoners. I fully agree with the fact it’s fun to be unified and hate on him haha, but I also think the writing and voice acting helps! The VAs have all around been brilliant and Wulbren’s and Barcus’s is no exception. That convo after you save the prisoners and Barcus reunites with Wulbren is so far one of my favourite moments. It feels very real and it’s such a great reveal of what kind of person Wulbren is after we heard Barcus talk him up so much. Overall a great video and analysis!
Barcus behavior is pretty typical behavior for a deep gome, at least in forgotten realms lore. since deep gomes live in the Underdark they are used to the cruel behavior of their fellow Underfoke (drow and duregar Mostly) and are because of this very Weary to most outsiders and to some extent non clan clan-related gnomes. (you can notice this behavior from the other Deep gnomes of the Ironhand clan)
Wulbren: is hated by everyone for being a terrible person
Nazeem: "Do you get to the Cloud District very often?"
"Get to the cloud district often, tsk what am I saying of course you don't"...
😂 I feel like we need a mod that allows us to kill wulbren over and over and over
@@designoak I feel like you just Animate dead and then kill him again would work...
I honestly appreciated Wulbren's main character energy until he burned the factory to the ground with the Gondians inside. he dying for that next play through
I honestly love him. He’s very well voice acted and he has a certain level of passion to his views that I kinda admire. He’s a man of conviction, even if it has consumed him.
The last time I saw an entire community band together to hate on one character was Sho Tucker. It’s honestly a glorious moment in time when the fandom is at peace over a common enemy.
Poor Barcus was so confused by my chaotic good drow cleric of lolth.
“Aren’t you going to enslave me??”
“No???”
“Well. Alright. Bye. I guess.”
Barcus grew on me in a weird way. When I was younger, I was in one of those "Big brother/big sister" programs where an older student takes a younger one under their wing. Barcus for whatever reason reminded me heavily of the guy I was "big brother"-ing. Kinda stand off-ish, but not mean. A little socially awkward, and very prone to getting into shennigans. So of course, the moment Wulbren started being mean, the quicksave button got hit.
im sorry, but after i killed Barcus, then used speak with dead on him, it confirmed the romance angle to me. when he called him "My Wulbren" my heart hurt so bad.
Yes!! I feel the same way about that! It's honestly so sad looking at their dynamic from Barcus's point of view.
Its me. I am the Wulbren liker.
Wulbren is the only person in Baldur's Gate who is against the police having death robots on the principle that the police having death robots is bad, rather than opposing the death robots because the wrong person has them. For real world comparisons, the steel watch are functionally drones. Wulbren is the only person in the entire game against the police using drones to shoot people. By comparison, Florrick even talks about how great it will be to use the steel watch in wars and conquer enemies.
People hate Wulbren because the game frames him that way. No one blames Zevlor for thinking the Aradin and his crew should have died instead of potentially leading the goblins to a well fortified community. But its somehow evil when Wulbren thinks the Gondians should have died rather than build giant death robots that could opress and kill all of Baldur's Gate.
Wulbren is the only person offering systemic critique of the status quo in Baldur's Gate with an admittedly flawed plan to stop it. Blowing up the arms manufacturing facility supplying the police is cool and based, and while our plan that also manages to save some of the workers is an improvement, it is still 99% his plan.
Unfortunately being the only person with an actual systemic critique of the status quo he is doomed to get Killmongered by the narrative and randomly kick puppies so we the hero can defend the shitty staus quo and feel good about it. And people dont notice because he's not as hot as Michael B Jordan.
Okay wait that's fair! The game does bring that up, but it frames it as an issue with the Gondians instead of focusing on the actual issue with the robot cops.
I do usually blow up the foundry, it's just weird I'm expected to kill the Gondians inside as well, and I think a lot of players get hung up on that detail, and ignore the rest of that situation, myself included. But there is a lot of potential there to critique a surveillance state, and to get you thinking about that kind of presence.
Ketheric Thorm is a "fallen hero" villain. Gortash is a "scheming puppetmaster" villain. Orin is a "force of pure evil" villain.
But Wulbren Bongle? He's worse than a villain. He's an ASSHOLE, and NOBODY likes an asshole.
You save him from the primary bad guys's prison cell, basically a fate worse than death, and he's like "I saved myself, with the input of these people", and "Oh? Oh I don't need anything else. You can go now."
He treats my main man Barcus like shit, despite the fact that Barcus has done NOTHING BUT risk life and limb to help him, to the extent of getting captured MULTIPLE times. He's clearly not cut out for this, further hammering home just how much he cares every time he throws himself back into the grinder, and Wulbren just DOES NOT CARE. He treats him like a lost child.
And the Gondians. OH MY GOD THE GONDIANS! Wulbren activates his racist trap card after you've done HIS JOB FOR HIM and tells you that this entire culture must be exterminated or he won't be happy with you SAVING THE CITY FROM ROBOT COPS.
And the worst part? He 100% DOES NOT NEED TO BE THIS WAY. He can stop whenever he wants. He's not like durge, with the blood of a nutter god in him, he's not like any of our party members who have been lied to and gaslit and tortured by devils and goddesses cruel and ficticious. He's doing all of this because HE WANTS TO.
Wow i entirely missed all of this - I accidentaly yeeted Barcus from the windmill and then Wulbren didn't make it out of the prison break so i had no idea this was a thing 🤣
Wulbren doesn't show the PC due respect. That's probably what grinds peoples' gears
Barcus braved goblins, the underdark, became a slave and went through the shadow cursed lands all to help Wulbren and then when Wulbren is finally saved he's like ANNOYED and dismissive of Barcus. And then Barcus is so sad 😢
That alone made me want to smush him into viscera.
You know, I am the guy who doesn't hate him! In my playthroght I was playing as a chaotic neutral Warlock-Bard-Paladin, and I knew about the Gondians plot point (I had an act 3 paladin playthroght I didn't wanted to finish due to excessive save skumming). So, in my head, I thought that killing Gortash by pushing him off a cliff was a good idea... And when I actually showed up at the foundry, all destroyed by the the Absolute taking over... Wulbren was just standing there, thanking me for doing absolutely nothing (in person), saying that I was really nice for destroying the foundry, and that he will be helping me in the end. And I was like: "Sure, m8, whatever works for you 😂"
really happy this showed up in my feed!!! 🙌
I'm pretty new to BG3, and just met Wulbren for the first time last night. I was so glad one of my dialogue options was "wow that guy is a real arsehole" (or something to that effect) like I didn't even bother to read the other options I zeroed in on that and hit click like it was instinct. Great video!
The moment he gave Barcus attitude upon reuniting in Last Light I had it out for him
There’s a song called “Fuck Wulbren Bongle”. And personally, I approve.
The about Wulbren that infuriates me the most is how fucking hipocritical he is. He hates the Gondians for not fighting back against Gortasch wich would mean certain death for them and their families.
Meanwhile he 100% knows and even tells you that the Ironhands where cast out of Baldurs Gate cause they WILLINGLY sided with Sarevok Anchevs attempted takeover of Baldurs Gate 100 years ago, wich is living memory for a lot of people in the city.
By his own additude the ironhands should be cut down to the last man, but somehow in that case he believes in second chances.
If they ever open up baldur's gate 3 to have artificers, please have my man bargus as a party member. he's suffered enough and honestly, baldur's gate 3 needs more short folk representatoin.
I don't think it's about Wulbren being "evil" or "good". I think that his particular brand of bullshit is just more familiar. People KNOW that Gortash and Orin are going to be bad guys. They surround themselves with other bad people. Wulbren, on the other hand, we only knew through Barcus in the beginning. Barcus, who was blindly loyal to his friend, and desperately wanted to help him, to save him. So much so he keeps getting captured. He's slow to trust others, but he's a genuinely good person. He sees the flaws in his people, and wants to be better than that.
If not for Barcus, Wulbren would have been a completely unremarkable character. Bad, an asshole, but we MIGHT have worked with him. I genuinely think that part of why people genuinely try to save the Gondians (but seriously, FUCK those missions) is because...well. Fuck Wulbren Bongle.
i think BG3 is very good at training the player to empathy. i felt it particularly with Barcus. When we first met him, i saved him and i was put off by his gruff nature, found him "unlikable". And i thought saving him was annoying bc he was always running off and needing rescue. But by the time I'd saved him a couple times and we met Wulbren at Last Light, and i saw him treat Barcus badly... OH HELL NO. That gnome might be annoying but he's with us and YOU DO NOT ABUSE HIS FEELINGS. I think this is part of the brilliance of how BG3 handles NPCs, especially the tieflings. We have a host of other people on the same journey as the PCs, and repeatedly meeting them under different circumstances made me feel more empathy to them, and regard them more like people and less like game props. We're all trying to get to Baldur's Gate.
Wulbren is simply the most invidious and arrogant NPC I ever saved in a game!
Me when I first started the video but had only met Barcus at that point "Huh, there's someone more annoying than Barcus? I doubt it"
Me twelve days later: "Fuck Wulbren Bongle. Barcus should just stay in my camp as a trader and I'll be his best friend"
Thing is that I find Barcus kind of exasperating, as well. His flipping back and forth between grating and clueless and naive. Not until the very end, when he stands up and says "this is it, Wul, no further" and actually accepts leadership that I respected him - and by then it has to no meaning in the game.
There's a diary of Wulbren's you can find in the decrepit village in the Underdark.
He's wondering if he'll ever see his friend Barcus again, who has left the Underdark for Baldur's Gate.
Not much, but it gave me the impression he felt abandoned.
I was actually pissed off Larian didn't give me an option to persuade him around to Barcus' pov after the Iron Foundry. You know, make him see reason.
Barcus taking over the Ironhands is ok, but I was dissatisfied.
I get you but I think it’s fitting you don’t get to change him. Not everyone in the world is “fixable”, there will always be people who cling to toxic mindsets and bad decisions no matter once.
Wulbren is a radicalized genocidal racist. Maybe he once had good in him, maybe he once actually cared for Barcus, but those are parts of him he killed a long time ago, and he’s too far gone now. Knowing he could have been better and not being able to do anything about it adds to the narrative in a great way. I find it more realistic that he is who he is to the bitter end.
Besides, the player isn’t some god. If someone Wulbren once cared for like Barcus can’t change his mind, why would our rando ass be able to?
After Act 2 where I got Thisobald to drink himself to death, talked Gerringothe into giving up her gold and dying, persuaded Malus to let his 'students' kill him, and persuaded Yugir to kill his adds and himself, not being able to talk Wulbren around seems a little inconsistent.
I was honestly surprised at that, but it's a tiny niggle in a sea of brillance, so no big deal.@@knockoutroundabout
You know what’s funny is he’s totally nice to you when you do not befriend Barcus. I did an evil durge run and flung Barcus on the windmill (it severely pained me but I’m trying to be evil ok !) anyhow Wulbren is totally the opposite of how he behaves when you’re evil and save him without Barcus in the mix lol 😂 he’s a lot more likable
For me, it was when i saved him and he didnt even care, and only rewarded me when i reminded him
Wulbren Bongle is the secret Chosen of Urdlen, the Crawler Below, a Gnomish Chaotic Evil god of Hatred, Death, and War. Or, at least that's MY claim.
The probability of the person who likes Wulbren even seeing this video is astronomical.
"We've all seen characters who are objectively worse be loved and adored by fans."
Asterion has entered the chat.
During my first playthrough I forgot to save Barcus from the forge, I just thought he was a random NPC. Because of that my Act III quest with Wulbren was bugged out and it made me so mad that Ive held a grudge towards them both ever since
The irony is, I played my Tav as kind of a rude "begrudging hero, does the noble thing but doesn't like it" type and yeah, she saved Barcus but she was also mean to him and demanded payment and told him he was bad at what he does.
But then we met Wulbren and it became: "Barcus, my good best friend, you need to get out of this toxic relationship, I support you!!
The only saving quality of Wulbren is that in the duergar camp in the Underdark you can find something called "spattered diary", which basically says that it's Wulbern's dairy entry where he wonders if he'll ever get to see his friend Barcus again. The word "friend" is explicitly used, so we know Wulbren has, or had, at least some positive feelings towards Barcus. But the way he acts towards Barcus later on? I know we can still rescue Wulbren if Barcus is dead, but as far as he's concerned Role Play wise, if it wasn't for Barcus he would still be rotting in that cell in Moonrise.
Also, he has the typical boomer mentality of "if we've had it bad, then they have to have it worse"; sure, it must've been rough for the Ironhands to be exiled from Baldur's Gate. But IIRC they largely served Sarevok WILLINGLY. Yes, it's fucked up that later generations have to suffer the bad decisions of their ancestors, but that still gives Wulbren no right to judge Gondians who were literally enslaved and forced to work under the threat of death, or death of their loved ones in the Iron Throne. Also, as we saw, Gondians were actually happy to form an alliance with Ironhands, holding no grudges to them.
His vile spite and hypocrisy is what makes me hate him. Also I would treat Barcus better.
8:20 You forget a very important thing here. VERY IMPORTANT
The Ironhand Gnomes were cast out because they were servants of the Bhlaalspawn trying to take over the world in the previous releases of the game. They were cast out and marked for extermination because of it. it's the same situation as the Gondians are in now. Wulbryn clearly belives that the Gondians deserve the same treatment as the Ironhands got. He is holding them to the same standard they held the Ironhand Gnomes.
The same standard that had his parents get murdered for trying to return to the city.
His people have been blamed, kileld and exiled for a single bad thing they did back in the day for centuries now, in many cases by the Gondians. He now sees the Gondians commiting the same sin the ironhands once did as an opportunity to take revenge as opposed to showing compassion due to the situations being simmilar.
Barcus and Wulbryn are basically 2 sides of the same coin when it comes to lashing out against your opressor:
Wulbryn is - we were murdered, exild and persecuted for centuries by the Gondians for doing X, now that they did X we should hold them to their own standards. We are in the full right to treat them as badly as they treated us. It's time for us to be on top for once.
Barcus - we were murdered, exild and persecuted for centuries by the Gondians for doing X, now that they did X we should not repeat the same mistake they did. We know the one bad thing we did does not define us, so why should it define and condemn them?
The only line that made me think lesser of Barcus is after you rescue him from the Duergar and he insists on going to rescue Wulbren, you can say “I guess I’ll be rescuing you again” and he’ll go “Of course not, bad things have already happened to me twice, the thought of it happening a third time is preposterous”. Like, b r u h
When I clicked on this video, I thought you were going to claim that Barcus was hated and I was ready to go into defense mode! But Wulbren? Calling him a piece of shit is an insult to shit.
My reason to dislike Wulbren comes from him simply being mean to the player. Like, I enjoy to play a hero or a powerhungry villain. Both would dislike some dude they just saved to be rude to them. If I play a villain, Wulbren is my enemy. If I play a good guy, then he is also my enemy.
What makes him truly irredeemabke though, is that he isn't just traumatized or rightfully distrusting. Take for example Wyll, when he meets Karlach. He was told to kill a devil, sees this hulking Tiefling burning with hellfire and augmentations of infernal metal sticking out of her and then he sees a few visions of her in the blood war. Of course he'll distrust her. Also, not killing her has pretty obvious consequences for him. But he does do the right thing, when confronted with the truth. Telling him she is a Tiefling and no devil is enough for him to stand down. He sees reason when confronted with the truth.
Or look at Barcus. He is rude at first but then pretty quickly starts to seem more like a nice guy who is way too deep into a mission, he truly isn't made for. He wants to march off into the shadows, if you tell him not to, he wont. You can say you want nothing and he still gives you his pack and wont insult you further. Basicly, he always chooses to do what ge thinks is right and is only a dick, when he thinks you are also a dick.
Lastly, lets look at Ketheric Thorm. I am convinced, that he would have repented if Aylin wouldn't have stepped in. Sure, he already went too far, but he is driven by some relatable emotions. You can also skip one of his fights and basicly make him give up. He is evil, sure, but he is reasonable.
Wulbren doesn't see any reason. He is in almost every situation you meet him in, a complete douchebag. Barcus and Rolan are too at times, but both of them have understandable reasons when they do. Wulbren though, is just always an asshole. He is only nice, when he needs you and even then, its not because he needs you for something noble, its for blowing innocent people up.
The true nail in the coffin for Wulbren though, is his last scene. Even if you dont care for Barcus Wroot and maybe have killed him, that last scene makes Wulbren irredeemable. The Gondians probably would help other tyrants, if those tyrants would force them into doing it. But who wouldn't do it then? Thats like saying you are an asshole for not letting your family die. Its obscene. Especially when you let him live there but side with the Gondians, he shows his true colours. He says "When he rules the city", we'll be sorry. That isn't a nobke revolutionary, thats a kingpin in the making trying to kill rivals. He is just overall unlikable. And if you like Barcus, the unlikability of him only skyrockets.
Biggest achievement in any of my playthroughs was assassinating Wulbren and then watching my friend toss his corpse into the Chionthar after he got kicked out of the ironhands
Unfortunately there is one person in the official discord who will defend this runt with their life
I think the reason why wulbren is so hated is because unlike Gortash, Ketheric Thorm or the emperor, people like Wulbren exist in our real lives. It’s the Umbridge phenomenon. They‘re much more relatable and therefore more hate-able
say it with me now: fuck wulbren bongle! (such a good song dedicated to this btw for those who dont know)
I think one thing is who hasn't had a "friend" who in hindsight was just a jerk using you
While I'm sure there is definitely someone out there that likes Wulbren, it is pretty shocking just how unanimously people hate him/love to hate him. Justice for Barcus.
I've been loving these analyses from you. Keep it up! :)
He is a drow, him and minthara are pretty similar when it comes to blaming the victim for being weak, minthara just has a redemption arc, when a character can make you completely hate them, a side character. the writers did their job
I think part of the reason, is that other characters that have done worse than him, have some sort of tragedy around them to make them feel like they were dealt a bad hand (Gortash was sold as a slave, Orin is the result of an incestuous relationship between her mother and her uncle, and her mother tried to kill her, Ketheric lost his faith when he lost his daughter, and can even show regret if you do certain things to get to his boss fight), or are at least fun to watch. With Wulbren, it's not like that. He is not charming, he is not crazy, he is not tragic, he is just a jerk, and one that has shown that doesn't care about anyone but himself, and who also happens to have a friend that cares too much for him, and even that friendship means nothing to him. All I can say, is that Wulbren is a character not even Scratch could like
I'd actually argue that he doesn't rescue the teiflings in moonrise. In 2/3 playthroughs, I had to make sure that the teiflings reach the boat in the prisons first, because if not, he and his friends will break the chains and then just trigger the cutscene to leave without the teiflings. (I had killed the warden/guards prior to breaking them out) I was so shocked the first time this happened I had to restart the whole encounter.
That's weird. In my playthroughs he did go to the tieflings to break them out, too
Fun fact! If you talk to Wulbren after killing Thorn. You can use detect thoughts on him!
And he isn’t thinking of anything. No words, no secret plans behind what he told you. Just Fire. Not even the calm and cozy type of fire. Just…
A . GIANT . BURNING . INFERNO . OF . FIRE. Dude wanted to make Baldur’s Gate into Hell 2.0.
I just have to say that I love your videos and they help me so much to sleep at night. You have such a great voice and narrate so well! And not to forget that you cover my BG3 hyperfixation wonderfully ;)
My personal obscure favorite is fist ulthred, he’s a barbarian in the last light inn and one time when my three friends and I were fighting Marcus something glorious happened,
Round one: ulthred isn’t even in combat yet
Round two: he shows up and immediately gets paralyzed
Round three: he gets unparalyzed and rages before dashing towards the remaining enemies
At this point my friends and I are ragging on him big time and making fun of him
Round four: this is the last ghoul standing, all other attacks miss, we can’t there, Jaheira has somehow gotten herself paralyzed and at incredibly low health,
only one man goes before the ghoul and there’s no way he saves it, my friends and I are already mourning, planning out what to engrave on her tombstone when *suddenly*
BOOM!!! ULTHRED CRITS!
he rolls insanely high damage on that crit, my friends and I see a glimmer a hope, but we know still, in our heart of hearts, that his max damage on a regular hit still won’t be enough to finish the ghoul off, but still we cheer, we applaud, we try our damndest to urge this man on, if it were possible to receive bardic inspiration through a screen by sheer force of will this man would have had four inspirations!
The seconds between his first and second attack are taught with anxiety, with desperation, with that fragile glimmer of ho-AND HE CRITS! HE CRITS TWICE IN A ROW, USELESS ULTHRED BECAME A HERO IN A SINGLE TURN! USELESS NO MORE!!
Needless to say ulthred became an icon amongst the flaming fists and at the fight in moonrise I may or may not have used several of my, admittedly many attack actions to throw healing potions at him, to ensure his survival
To my knowledge you don’t see him after the end of act two, but ever since that fateful play through ulthred has been a precious part of my act two experience, he’s also one of the fists that fights with you in the prison at moonrise if you forgot to free people before starting the big fight, which I found out because I forgot to do that, and then had to do everything over again because I’m stupid!
Anyways needless to say this experience was unique and no one will ever understand just how iconic that moment was, one of the few “you had to be there” moments of my life, much like my other favorite, (also dnd related) “dm, there’s no other way to say this: I suck their bones” which has got to be one of the funnier moments from that campaign, and one of the better jokes I’ve ever come up with, which isn’t saying much if we’re being competely honest
I just completed the steel foundry. The Wulbren hate is well founded. If the gnomes turn on Wulbren. He threatens to kill everyone. This guy has no chill.
I recently finished a "whatever it takes" antihero playthrough (i.e. try to do the right thing but gather power from any source no matter how immoral to "defeat evil with a different kind of evil") in my most recent run and my character got on with Wulbren very well. He was an asshole trying to get a good outcome for his people, much like my character (who was a Gith). It also ended up with a very "interesting" version of Wyll and Gale in the party given how the choices end up along with a predictable Astarion as my character's bestie and an oddly disappointed seeming Lae'zal hanging in with what looked like an increasingly empty romance for her.
It was very interesting how a very different kind of playthrough had a character who is largely represented in the same way come across because of the way you've played the game.