Angela Davis on the argument for police and prison abolition | UpFront
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- In recent years, calls for abolishing police and prisons in the United States have grown louder.
In the wake of what many view as failures by law enforcement and the US criminal legal system, people have been calling for an alternative approach, placing abolition at the centre of mainstream discourse on how to confront police brutality and systemic racism.
That approach must be both humane and encompass a bigger picture vision for dealing with crime and violence, says political activist and scholar, Angela Davis, who has been at the forefront of movements to abolish prisons and the police for decades.
But is abolition really possible? And what would take the place of prisons and police?
On an UpFront special interview, Marc Lamont Hill speaks with Angela Davis.
One of the things I’ve heard from abolitionist talks regarding how to deal with violent crime, is small highly trained task force(essentially swat removed from the institutional problems of policing) to respond to violent crimes.
Alongside proper mental health institution to help treat the conditions that produce the violence of course.
As I understand it essentially the goal is a network of systems to address the conditions, and crimes in society, each of which is specialized and can respond to their area of expertise(including violent crime) rather than a dude with a gun responding to them all
So you want swat but not swat lol wtf
You will never find broad agreement on an issue when one segment of the society generally feels served, protected, and represented by an institution and another segment generally feels the opposite.
it's the poor vs the rich, not the black vs white..
@@Thegingerbreadm4nobviously, but the rich use racism as a tool to make money and it also takes the blame off of them and onto historically ostracized and oppressed people. W.E.B Dubois wrote about this in black reconstruction.
i appreciate that angela davis includes non-binary people in her activism omg
So killer or rapist can go free
@@tjohnnyf7100 she isn’t saying that. She’s trying to prevent those people from even existing by likely giving them more mental health care. I severely, severely doubt she wants them walking the streets with untreated issues.
As a non-binary person I LOVE that
There was at least one country that "abolished" police. In 1918 following the 1917 October revolution, the newly formed Soviet Russia disbanded all "ancient regime" police forces. To maintain order and to prosecute "counter-revolutionary elements" a new, people's, workers' militia was formed, which was distinct from the Red Guard, precursor to the Red Army. Pretty quickly though, this "people's militsiya" was subordinated to the NKVD and became de facto a police force. The name "militsiya" survived the Soviet system, but not for very long... Sometime in the 2000s the whole organization was renamed police again. So it goes. State is police, and police is state.
And in America the corporation is the state and the corporation is the police state. Break the corporation and you will break the police!
You mean the 1920s?
My favorite thing about her is her supporting Palestine
The ottoman province that also included trans jordan ????
Why would anyone support that ???
Skipped history in the university ? Never been a palestinian country or people !
@@pasimajuri1209 cope
You forgot the part where she hanged out with racist Arab dictators
Start that in Qatar first.
No, start that in your home first, you control-freak
Every country should. I'm neutral. But not neuter.😹
Criminals need prison.
Always liked hearing her speak and glad to see her now. This was an interesting conversation
About communism?
Sociopaths are not mentally ill. They have a different norm, one which is dangerous to other people. And they are not made in prison. Most of them never end up in prison.
Thank you, Angela Davis for having Marielle Franco represented in this interview!
This was a very insightful conversation and it makes me intrigued to learn more.
Unfortunately we're too far gone as a country to adopt real social change.......
I consider myself a radical and ally when it comes to prison abolition. I actually think it needs to go further than just addressing racial inequality and become a global movement to bring real change to all marginalised people.
No non violent offender should be behind bars. Murderers, sexual offenders and predators on the other hand need to be isolated from the public. And this can indeed be done without the use of prisons or the use of public funds.
My solution towards post prison incarceration encompasses a range of progressive alternatives that facilitate the interests of all concerned stakeholders and seeks meaningful outcomes.
One of the most important outcomes of a post prison detainment along with re-education of the offender is the ability of the offender to compensate the victims of the crime.
There needs to be a commodification of offenders as a form of punishment and compensation to the victims and communities as a whole.
how do you isolate people from the public without using prisons or public funds....? 'isolate' and 'not a prison' sounds necessarily contradictory to me, unless you mean some kind of psychosurgery
So your goal is to just re make prisons?
Isolate....in a prison? Lol wut
You literally just said you want to turn prisoners into commodities to compensate their victims… I'm not sure you've ever actually read any Angela Davis bro lol jfc smh 🤦🏻♂️
So a prison?
Ted Bundy subscribes to this big time
Perhaps they should try it in her neighbourhood? She can approach people who need to be 'understood and cared for'. Test out her theory, in her backyard.
Strawman and you're stupid she just said individualism won't work
@@bcastillo179 so just roll it out nationwide, you're just as brilliant as she is
Nothing will prevent crime. And there are levels to criminals. Some are circumstantial. There are those who are jailed unfairly. But there are just some people that are evil. If you believe in good.. therefore you must believe in and evil. So what do you do with the evil?
1. Either restrain them behind a jail,
2. Remove them from society
Some people just don't deserve to be among the innocent
It is not a nice thing to say, but it is a reality.
Some people will be serial perpetrators.
Finally someone with common sense
She brings up a very good point when she refers to global capitalism. It wasn't until I went to study in France on a year long exchange program that I began questioning the indoctrination I'd received through the US education system. I was thrown in people from all over and I was forced to examine us history. The Vietnam conflict definitely ,,, questioned
It is all right for THE Americans but it is NOT all right for other countries.
Stop imposing your views on us third world countries!!
She didn’t answer what to do with violent offenders. She mentioned how to prevent those crimes long term but not an immediate solution. The answer is secure mental health institutions.
There’s no answer. There will always be criminals
Not every serial killer is necessarily mentally ill idk why ppl think that.
Warran vs District of Columbia...
Supreme Court ruling
These people have lost their mind.
Nice
I listened to all that and only in the 23rd minute did he attempt to rein in the generalities, the evasions, the historical biographies - What does a Nation without Prison and Police look like? How does it operate?
Well, the world has to go Socialist first, is the response. Socialist/Communist China has both prisons and police.
Her single Practical Proposal: - send in trained personnel without guns to treat mentally disturbed people with sympathy and understanding. Yes, but if the caring psychiatric professional is killed by the mentally disturbed person, who gets called if Police don't exist? Another psychiatric illness professional? Or an armed psychiatric illness professional?
BTW, drugs are seldom seen as an issue by socialists? It's always depravation and mental illness. Yes, but hard drugs (a Capitalist Heaven Product) don't help. No mention of it in the Police and Prison Abolition discussion.
A living legend. I was so happy to see and hear her after a long time!
And - as I see, there are still people who simply don't understand. What a pitty.
It's not that we don't understand. It's that we've become educated and experienced. We have respect for ourselves and our society.
@@j.rebekah8605 strawman
She is nuts
Angela Davis is a lunatic 🤪
i pray i meet angela some day.. the things she has done for the world are so immense .. praise god
She’s still living in a fantasy world.
Like all communists.
This woman championed the soviet union for shutting down the czech uprising! Most of her sycophants dont even know this. Lmao
Tanks from ISRAEL was used against PROTESTER'S in FERGUSON!
"Angela Davis, who has been at the forefront of movements to abolish prisons and the police for decades."
Still at the grift, that still hasn't worked.
I'm liking what I'm hearing. Subbed. 😊
I think we need to give prison a few more millennia, just to give it a fair shot. Hey - it might actually prevent “crime” someday!
Should we give sarcasm a few more years to see if it prevents someone from needing a genuine argument?
@@DonnieDio What’s not genuine about the argument that we have been incarcerating people for thousands of years without any decrease in “crime” as a result? Have we not been incarcerating people for thousands of years? Has that resulted in a “crime-free” society anywhere in the history of incarceration?
I’m sure you have a witty retort handy. I’ll wait for it. 🍿
@@freeloader69 It's not crime free, but if people realize there aren't any consequences for their actions, they begin to destroy society. We're already seeing this in Democrat cities where the police have had their hands tied or defunded.
@@dubsspilly5864 What people need to realize is that *they* are ultimately responsible for their own safety. Unless a cop just happens to be there when someone commits a “crime” against you, and they decide to help you (which they aren’t obligated to do), you can’t rely on the cops to protect you or your property. All the cops do is collect evidence and hand that evidence over to prosecutors. And kill black people, for some reason.
Nope! White comedy is still just as dull dry, boring and uninteresting as it's been for the last 30 or so years and you didn't redeem it! No truth! No comedy!
at 19 36 she fumbled the ball in excluding tthe counter arguement that to the worst of the offenders the police is not effective against them but punish the lest criminally minded
That goes without saying. Everyone knows that America is nothing but a banana republic where money buys democracy and the criminals walk free. Only the poor go to jail. Everybody knows this. Why don't you?
Ms Davis is very respected in our communities. I must say until the USA can get the lawlessness under control we need police and prisons. The problem with police is they keep quiet when they see a coworker doing illegal practices. Same applies to correctional officers working in prisons. We need police to keep law and order BUT we don't need unqualified people policing communities.
I know this isn't the purpose of the video but I feel seen by her language-- "the individual" "he or she or they"
It is on pupose. Dr. Davis is a very mindful and conscious human being.
Now we need to globally demilitarize and shut down most weapons manufacturing.
Ban guns first. Then we can talk about abolition of prisons and police.
Haha, so we can't protect ourselves. Unbelievable.
300 million LEGAL guns is a huge cat to put back in the bag. That doesn’t account for illegally imported, manufactured or 3D-printed firearms. Yeah good luck with that bro, I’ll keep my firearms
Should let her live in Atlanta or DC first. I bet she lives in a nice peaceful white neighborhood.
I say ghetto side of Chicago
She lives in Oakland you bozo 🙄
she lives in Oakland smh
But even if she did live in a nice neighborhood, how does that invalidate her argument? How does her current zip code influence her experiences and research?
@@taylorjacobs8623 that means she clearly did not do her research because the laws shes pushing for is endangering the people living there?
So where do we send convicted criminals to ? 5 star hotels ?
So many problems with our current legal system, from racially biased policing,. sentencing enhancements,.and having the financial resources to hire top attorneys, pay court fees( Bail) Financial resources do make a difference In our country I would rather be RICH and Guilty,.then POOR and Innocent
When will Qatar abolish the death penalty for apostasy?
What about Assange who is on death row for journalism?
No Commies.
Where does violent people go? Who will be there to do something with those violent people?
They join the police force. They get to beat protesters
@@jerrystusrapworkshop5483 if the police and prisons are abolished what happens to violent people?
@@rick_222 police abolition isn't just abolition of police alone. It involves building social support systems to prevent crime. Most crimes aren't violent, but rather crimes like burglary or selling drugs because they cannot support themselves with an honest job. Some criminals are drug addicts who became addicted to drugs because that was their only temporary escape from poverty, like how hungry kids sniff glue to numb their pain, or how homeless people drink a lot.
Violent crimes are rare compared to what I mentioned and harsh police action has been proven ineffective in addressing this. Never mind Draconian prison systems, which are more interested in using cheap prison labor to rent out to corporations like IBM. Cheap labor is profitable so they have every incentive to make sure they have a lot of prisoners be they wrongly accused or not. And they're mostly wrongly accused. Prisons don't fix broken people. Police don't protect you. They run the prisons and protect the govt from popular revolution.
The best way to deal with the crimes you speak of is better social support. Affordable housing, education, employment opportunities. So that ordinary people can have financial stability and won't have to resort to crime to support themselves. It's actually a lot cheaper than running a militarized police force and private for profit prisons.
@@jerrystusrapworkshop5483 thug life criminals and gang members won't change until they realize it's too late.
@@jerrystusrapworkshop5483Yeahhhhhh. That's stupidity. Evil people exist and will always exist regardless of how many "support systems" you create.
Big words, stupid ideas.
to carry on as we are is stupid.
I can honestly say as a medical professional, anywhere I have been that provides free healthcare completely has the worst healthcare on this planet. And if you need to see a specialist good luck you will wait 1 - 2 years. And ER wait times are 3 days. There are not enough doctors or nurses or specialists in countries where those clinicians get paid by the government. Not very many people will take up those hard earned careers to get paid scraps by the government. Sadly, the health system in the US has to involve capitalism to provide top tier healthcare that we receive here. Paying for healthcare means better care available. If people want free healthcare, get ready for a change in its availability and quality. If you're okay with waiting 2 years to see a cancer specialist or waiting 76 hours for an ER visit.. go for it and good luck.
I’m sorry your wife was raped and murdered. The man who did it feels really bad and says he is sorry. We will have long talks with him on a daily basis and explain to him why ramping and killing another person is wrong.
She just wasted her whole life on resentment
is this a spoof?
When God, created her....he smiled and said ; heal the World for change !!! She is an amazing human being that brought change for good, for " ALL " humanity.
Yes, allow criminals out of jail and no police to protect us. She's a very violent cruel person loving in lala land.
@@j.rebekah8605 she is something you'll never be; a remarkable human being
If you can text someone something negative without knowing them at all. That shows me where your state of mind is; in complete darkness. You are your own prison and you know it.
@@j.rebekah8605 Make a list of the crimes you committed, but never got caught for. Keep it to yourself!
@@uphigh2727 Right! The best slave is the one who doesn't know it. Those slaves are the ones who keep us divided.
Oh yes let's get rid of the police and let criminals out doing what they wanna do and not get punished and putting our families in danger. sounds like a great idea
Strawman
@@bcastillo179 consequence
@@ryanramlogan6512 "consequence"
Noun, having the military unleashed upon us
@@Meat_Testicles "Consequence"
Noun, A result or effect of an action or condition. Or in other words, you reap what you sow, OR in other words, you do the crime you do the time.
Laws are laws for a reason, to keep the peace. Anyone regardless of gender, identity and race, should be expected to follow them. And most do.
@@Meat_Testicles I won't deny that there are instances of abuse of power however by and large these instances would make up only 1% of police interactions (Taking into account that life happens everyday and police interact with people everyday) and the media portrays one instance and everyone goes wild. Try not to let social media influence your mind as much.
cultural behavior is a key element in the discussion
We have the technology to give the police non-lethal tools to pacify violent individuals. And, we don't have to go the route of the CCP with cameras everywhere and a social credit system or dis-arm every law abiding citizen. Social workers can handle most of the non-violent crime. The police force should be well paid, well trained and equipped, have high educational requirements and reflect the communities they serve. Davis has a point concerning punishment though. We all know wealthy individuals are going to walk, while the poor do 5 to 10. Until the un-fairness ends, we will continue to have social unrest.
You can’t stop somebody with an Ar-15 by tackling them
@@Unknown-oh6ue Only when they reload ;)
@@Unknown-oh6uebut you can by stunning them or tranquilizing them. I'm sure humans have created projectile weapons capable of that lol
DISLIKE
Israeli Defense Forces trained US police!
@@Linda43 Ok..LINDA👌..I stand w/ "PALESTINE"
@@Linda43 The original HEBREW'S "weren't" white..SORRY🤷
@@Linda43 "The HEBREW bible" was written in Sumer.."MODERN day Iraq"..Wonder why we BEFRIENDED THEN went to WAR w/ Iraq😒..Semetic is anyone INDIGENOUS "to the HORN of Africa"..so "The Ethiopian Jew's" are "MORE" semetic than Ashkenazi..Ashkenazi is a TERM 4 "EUROPEAN"..& Malcolm X had "RED" hair 😒..so WHAT?
@@Linda43 you JUST said YOURSELF.."EUROPEAN CONVERT'S"😅😅😂
@@Linda43 Metu-Neter(Ethiopia), Egyptian Book of The Dead(Egypt), The Hebrew Bible(Sumer).."The ROMAN holy bible"..written in Rome..ORDER of "religious text's"..from a WESTERN "perspective"..go try them "IQ" joke's somewhere else..same test that was used against Italian's..Irish & Jew's.
All this to say I understand reform or all systems
Ask her about reparations for ADOS. Then she doesn’t have an answer because she teaches at a PWI.
Can you explain
Strawman
😂
Lolno.
Are we going to talk about the Racism specifically by black men against black women.
I am not a sister warriors for all black men... I am for people individually.
I don't ever here anyone talk about black female bodies dropping left in right by the hands of our own black men.
So I will take a seat and be quiet on it. Let the men speak on their issues from now on
Once again, it's a black person making life much better for the masses of people in America and throughout the world.
Yet! Most foreigners and immigrants will greatly benefit and not seek to improve America, only maintain the status quo.
I'm an immigrant and I want an America that has low crime and black neighborhoods are not something to avoid but rather a place to travel because of music, food and just overall a place people can end up and not even be worried.
@@WaveRider1989 You're an immigrant who would be very welcome in the Black community, but you have been brainwashed by white supremacist propaganda. You should question why does a Black community even exist. Black people don't choose to live all together in one community. They are forced to live that way.
Ha
AL JAZAZERA, ENGLISH: PLEASE ASK ALL THOSE PEOPLE IN THE USA WHO JUST WENT THROUGH 2 OF THE WORST TORNADO OUTBREAKS EVER ON RECORD FOR THE MONTH OF DECEMBER HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT DEFUNDING THEIR LAW ENFORCEMENT?
ALSO, PLEASE ASK THE SAME QUESTION TO THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF KANSAS WHERE A WILDFIRE BURNED OVER 300K MILLION ACRES, TOO?
I'm very well aware of who she is, but she has really done NOTHING to help the Blacks in America unlike the late Edgar Evans, Martin Luther King Jr, or Malcolm X, even who ALL were assisinated because of their beliefs, and NOT wanting to do go against the U. S. violently.
MLK would be mortified to be lumped in with MX.
And people in Kansas didn't defund their police, middle America is sensible. The craziness is centralized to the big metropolis areas, primarily New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Chicago. Interesting how mental illness and crowded city areas have such a strong correlation.
Malcom x is not who think he was. Also there could easily be another force to assist with natural disasters. There are so many other ways to handle these things that don’t result in opprsssion of black and brown people, you just need to learn to consider other perspectives
Why isn’t Angela Davis in prison
This woman's ideas are disgusting. She's no ones hero. She could care less about what you've worked for. She obviously doesn't care about public safety. Her time has come and gone. Your seeing the results of such insanity in our streets.
She says don't use worse case scenarios yet she uses worst case scenario of prisoners experiencing violence to prove her point. There is no such thing as gender violence. Just like there is no such thing as black on black crime. Violence and crime are just that violence is violence and crime is crime. All crimes are hate crimes unless they are done in love which I doubt.
Don't you think there is a distinct difference between an impoverished person stealing bread and someone murdering their spouse? People commit crimes for a myriad of reasons. Should we put people away for smoking pot? I don't think so, but the federal government says yes. Should we put someone away for raping women? For me, that's a question I'm still trying to figure out. Davis advocates for looking for the root cause of an issue, and trying to solve that, rather than simply locking people away (which increases their chances of reoffending, by the way). I think there's something to be said for restorative justice and the idea that maybe if we seek mental health support for a rapist, then they'll come out of it understanding the pain they caused and why what they did was wrong. To me, this doesn't seem like the kind of thing that can happen overnight, so I get why people are scared about the prospect of abolition. But I appreciate the encouragement in the video to be more imaginative. The current system is absolutely not working. Why don't we look for something better, rather than simply reaffirming that the current way is the only way?
Strawman
we can easily turn her argument around and say, only a tiny fraction of police interventions end with cops killing someone, people are focusing on the negative.
Cops killed 1K unarmed people in America last year. One is too many! If they only killed one and you were the one they killed you couldn't even come up with that assinine argument and call it "focusing on the negative", could you, idiot? It's always unarmed people of color!!!
Strawman
police in the US kill at an exponentially higher rate than in any of our peer countries. our police are significantly more violent and lethal.
@@krinklyfig one doesn't necessarily follow from the other, maybe you just have more crime, or more violent criminals.
@@toobalkain yes, the underlying ideology of conservatism is that no systemic problems exist, and that everything that happens is due to individuals, who are made culpable of everything. unless it's about race, or class, where it concerns the behavior of the lower classes, or marginalized people. they must have brought it on themselves, or that is the natural inclination of their race. so you never have to answer for any policy for which you advocate, no matter that it benefits those in positions of power, because the fallout is never your responsibility. how convenient.
"her radical politics" lol she is one of the main figureheads of the neoliberal establishment as it currently exists. The idea here is that somehow we remove given police functions with another equally unaccountable and vaguely defined idea of "social work". None of these allow the exit of the bureaucratic disciplinary machines of the modern state from contemporary life. The idea of relying on families, loved ones, and communities are rejected in favour of relying on shadowy experts who know better for us than we know for ourselves, and are decentralized and so outside of some focal point of political action or imagination. And of course, we will see the increasing privatization of the police responsibilities that are ignored here, when one considers that this won't affect the actual social issues affecting contemporary American society, which much more than some mass shadow racism is the complete collapse of civil society in the effort to fight various hegemonic progressive formulations of social life and ethics. If some black kids in oakland rob a convenience store in blind day, the complete lack of social trust and civil society is not the problem but apparently the very impulse to engage in regulation of moral life.
-
lol what a complete tool Davis has become. The covid 19 crisis' political legacy isn't the mass realization of a bio-fascist security state having become legitimized and possible in semi-permanence, but rather people realizing there is racism? LMAO
- Also she says that prison only increases violence without any substantiation - did she ever consider the possibility that people who are already prone to violence would be violent whether they are in prison or not? Every correlation must magically just support her case I guess.
Pseudo intellectual garbage
Strawman
The increase in prison sentencing over 40 years is mostly due to the break down in the nuclear family which people like the host and guest seem to always conveniently avoid Al talking about. Sure, incarcerating people isn’t a good thing but what other alternative does society have when the people being incarcerated are criminals who will only cause more problems if not punished. Start looking at the root of the problems instead of trying to blame everything racism
commi
Wow what an impartial and tough interview. Basically starts as "Angela, everything that's happened recently I've interpreted to be in line with every opinion you've ever had, please tell me how you were so right"... What an absolute joke.
To be fair that is the only question anyone with half a brain should have for her
@@chadalpha7983 You're correct, that question would suggest only half a brain, at best.
@@chadalpha7983 strawman
Fake news
Some countries don't have prisons. In fact there are no prisons in prisons in any country. Sometimes there are prisons within prisons.😱
Only a criminal would make such demands.
Easy to get rid of Police when you live in a fancy house near celebrities. 👎👎👎Bad Idea
She lives in Oakland, she isn't exactly rich beyond belief
Her age is showing. She was much more eloquent 50 years ago.
She was much less wise 50 years ago. You probably won't be able to say that about your dumb self in fifty years. That's even if you make it.
American healthcare will do that to ya
A fundamental fact of life is when it come to making bad life choices, Africans and African Americans are a good example of this. The biggest crime committed against black people isn’t slavery, colonialism, or apartheid but what their own leaders have done to them. This lady is a good example.
Our leaders are under the thumbs of Europeans. U left that out🤔. So it's either placate or go to war with nuclear powers. Your ahistorical look on the world is elementary. Throw away hundreds of years of history like present day came about through a vacuum🤦🏾♂️
As if white peoples haven’t killed each other since the Roman Empire yeah I have a long list 🙄
@@wavveytae4181 Who needs oppressors when your own leaders are this dumb and low-IQ 🙈
Not slavery, not apartheid, not racism, so it’s their fault. The white mind can justified just about anything.
@@watchthis12day which ones? Who exactly? Joe down the street that makes 12 an hour at Starbucks? Is he suppressing you?
This woman is delusional. Why people would listen to Angela David is beyond rational thought.
I cant believe such a ludicrous and low-IQ idea is given any ounce of consideration. This is what happens when you have affirmative action in college admission. Geez!
I know Angela's backstory is disheartening but she is just straight up racist. I don't even know where to begin but she thinks Jussie is still innocent simply because he's black and the police are racist. That is Angela for you.
May I touch play button? Consent permission trust approval abolition? ¿Abolitíon?*
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You know what will solved the problem, no bullshit racism, no bullshit being poor, no bullshit police....but be human, you commit crime against another.... same thing should be done to you. You hurt someone....you get the taste of what youve done....too much talked bullshit. Make it simple dont do unto others what you want done to you.
Ya, lets all just regress back to a bronze age idea of crime an punishment.
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