Hitting The Trails For The First Time This Year With A Rivian R1T, Frontier Pro-4X, & Lexus GX!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2022
- Zach, Tijmen, Will, David, and Kyle head out for the first time this year on some awesome Colorado trails. Now that the snow is melting, we can have some fun overloading! In this video we take a 2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition with the 20" all-terrain tires, quad motors, and the 135kWh large battery pack, a 2022 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X, and an older 200k+ mi Lexus GX 470 out for a Saturday trail ride.
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#Rivian #Frontier #GX - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Love seeing the Frontier kicking $100k truck ass
The Frontier is a very attractive truck, I must say.
Snazzy!!!!!
It's a great truck I was very impressed
Be better if they could pick the damn thing up a little I don't know why they quit doing that after the first gen frontier.
Nahhh. GIVE ME THE TACO SUPREME! 🌮
Just here for the GX.
I think some people are missing the point when talking about locking on the Rivian - the reason Kyle keeps saying he wants a mechanical option and not just a software option is that the software option of "just make both wheels spin the same speed all the time" doesn't actually multiply the torque to either wheel - the one that has grip still has only 1 motor's worth of torque to apply even if the other wheel is turning slowly with it, all the power available in that second motor is being wasted. If you are able to physically lock the sides together, all of the available torque from BOTH motors can be applied to the wheel with traction - in the cases seen here where one wheel is completely off the ground rather than having only 227lb/ft of torque available to turn it, you'd have 454, and on a 7k lb vehicle that matters. Just making the wheels on either side "spin at the same speed no matter what" without a physical interconnection doesn't achieve anything more than what it can do today. In the cases where there clearly was more grip available, but the motor on that wheel was maxxed out and NOT moving the truck, a physical locker and using both motors output would have allowed it to USE that grip. "Virtual" lockers won't cut it, it MUST be a physical connection to truly benefit
That makes a lot of sense, a physical front and rear locker as well a centre locker to combine the power of all four motors would be very good for this.
I believe the torque of each single electric motor is more than enough for all the situations shown in the video
@@USUG0 agreed, doubt it could be maxed out.
💯
Or he need to relearn how hard to push the go pedal as one motor had more than enough power in this case.
I really want a Frontier.
The old ones are criminally underrated. Boring, but sturdy and capable. The new ones are pretty sweet all around
I just traded my '19 ram for a pro-4x. Savings on payments, insurance (insurance company told me there was a premium on rams for being "one of" the most stolen vehicles in North america) and fuel savings... not regretting it at all
I've had two of the second generation Frontiers in the Pro4X package, and they both have been excellent trucks. I spend quite a bit of time in the high country in Arizona and have recently been in the Sierra Nevada Mountains in January and February of 2023. My first Frontier was a 2013 Pro4X king cab, and my second one is a 2016 Pro4X crew cab. I still own my second Frontier.
As an owner of a 2023 pro 4x and a previous owner of many Tacoma’s, I can confidently say the Nissan is impressive. Add a small lift, throw on some good 33’s, it’s in TRD Pro territory and is potentially more capable due to the crawl ratio being higher than the Tacoma
If I owned the Rivian, the first thing I would do is find that pedestrian warning speaker and cut the wires.
Perhaps Rivian can turn off the obnoxious sound when in the off-road modes? It’s likely that there’s some legal requirement about this but that wouldn’t apply off road.
Tesla low speed speakers are loud as hell too. But yeah, I was thinking a piece of duct tape over the speaker at a minimum.
@@WilliamAArnett Yeah, that would be ideal and make a lot of sense.
I disconnected my pws in my Tesla after the recall, no point in have no to deal with that obnoxious reverse sound after they took away the fun
It's probably as simple as a fuse. But the low speed sound is there by law for pedestrian safety. What you do with your vehicle is your call though...
I’m glad to see the new Frontier kicking so much ass. I’m trying to talk my dad into getting one for himself.
TAACO SUPREME
Gx470 is timeless.
Rivian should add virtual front and rear locker settings to keep both wheels at same rotation speed (along with a snow/mud mode and dog mode :-)). Btw, want to be one setting below max height on the Rivian whenever possible in these situations as max height has less articulation.
You’re right. I was at that one setting below max height for most of this trail. I only went to max height if there was an obstacle to clear down the center of the truck (and maybe to show off for some pictures!!).
Bullshit!!! Nothing virtual is going to help the rivian, it needs mechanical/physical locking of the motors, that Nissan Frontier and Lexus gx would have done even way better if they had at least two locking diffs.
@@w3ranch that rivian has 800hp when other trucks have less than half of its power
This is only Revision 1. Virtual lockers could be just an OTA away ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Software update should fix that easily. It really should detect the lack of resistance and power the other wheels. Maybe even a calculation off the tire pressure sensor to know it's not sitting on the ground. Lockers and differentials are mechanical things not needed in this situation.
The GX stock just keeps on rising. 200k is just getting started with that legendary motor.
The Frontier was really impressive!
Way cool! Thanks for showing us this!
That was so so much fun to watch. Great camera work and editing as well to show suspension and wheel traction. Bravo.
Fun video. You guys are really enjoying it.
Very interesting video thanks.
Great video! Love the breathing intensifies lol.
What a great video, I tune in to watch the frontier but what was amazing was the EV truck just incredible
For double the price... Pass. They both got up the hill and the Frontier struggled less.
Such a good video
love that and my GX
Stumbled across this just as I'm trying to decide whether to get a Rivian or a GX for off-roading the trails near my home in the Rockies. Seems like neither is a bad choice, but I'm leaning towards the Rivian because it's fast AF on roads, but also quiet AF on trails. (I'd be able to hear the birds singing, unlike in my diesel F-250!)
Really enjoyed this video, thank you guys. Well done. Subscribed.
Love the music choice
New NIssan looks good! but Nissan took a "if it ain't broke" philosophy with that truck. Was the Rivian ever aired down? that makes such a difference to get traction! I usually take my Jeep with the 33" down to 20 psi.
Would be fun to compare the Wrangler 4xe with a Rivian (even if the Jeep can only do about 4 miles or so on electric only on a trail).
I’d imagine that a 4-motor system will always have some slight wheel spin since the torque vectoring will need to put some power to the wheel in order to determine what torque needs to be delivered to the wheel based on the feedback it gets
Great video!! Thought the Frontier and Lexus were the most impressive! I’m more of a “bang for the buck” kind of guy though. The Rivian well …
24:35 Rivian should have an option to auto-switch between HOLD off or on depending on if you are going up (allow a little roll back) or down hill (1 pedal crawl down). This assumes they have the sensors to know the angle the vehicle is at (up or down hill) ... like others have (ala GM EV hummer).
Maybe. This was just my opinion that you should have hold off for uphill and on for down. My driving style…. As long as they give us the option to switch it on or off. Some days I miss the old fashioned clutch, synchronizing my footwork with twelve things that my hands need to do, while turning an actual dial to find the right AM station. I guess those days are for driving grandpas ‘68 Ford highboy. Otherwise, I’ll settle for the automated one pedal driving, one finger steering, and asking Alexa to play a different song.
@@w3ranch Made perfect sense to me. Certainly Rivian could make these option so users that want them can use them. I spent some time in CO on forest service roads and a little in Moab in a Toyota 4x4 but nothing as fun as this video shows.
Hey Guys, great video! can you tell me what color is the Rivian? is this the limestone?
Definitely looks like the Rivian needs something. Lockers would certainly help, but I wonder if they can do something with power delivery to the wheels that have grip to make it behave more like we expect from an ICE truck. Even without the rear locker engaged, just using ATRAC on a Toyota, it'll still just work its way over obstacles with relatively little throttle application, much like Tijmen's GX. I can't imagine they're maxing out the motors such that a locker would be the only way to get more power where the grip is. But then again, this is why the ICE's have low range too to get more torque to the wheels. Let's hope it's just a programming thing that's needed for rock crawl mode and not a hardware problem.
If they program a virtual front and rear locker setting I have a feeling that it will navigate this problem. As well as fine tune the traction control delivery so that it works just as well as Landrover's one on the new defender.
@@migueljardim8177 unfortunately your Land Rover/Range Rover actually has physical locking diffs aside from the terrain management system like Toyota crawl control. Rivian needs physical locking
@@alanmay7929 , it can't be physically locked as they aren't physically connected (a motor at each wheel). It could be done in software easy enough. In theory 4x electric motors is superior to locking diffs/axles/transfer cases + single engine, but it definitely needs to be setup correctly. The Rivian clearly isn't. It's already hampered by 20" wheels and the off-road setting isn't optimized to utilize the advantages of quad motors for crawling. Just have it software locked to apply equal rotational speed at each motor and you'd be done. Make an "off-road" Rivian with smaller rotors that can fit 17" rims and it'd be even better.
@@ForgottenWaypoints for thé records the rivian doesn’t have a motor at each wheels, the motors are actually assembled together just like in the plaid or Audi etron s, again nothing beats locking diffs, vehicles like Mercedes’ gwagen have up to 3 locking diffs and off-road capability almost unmatched, Range Rover has two locking diffs plus an excellent terrain management system….. rivian needs to lock both the front and rear two motors together to increase torque and off-road capabilities.
@@ForgottenWaypoints you have to look underneath the rivian the motors are much closer together.
are those tires aired down at all? Also, if you are intent on doing serious off-roading, it would probably do with some better 'offroad' tires. That said, it would be interesting if there could be a 'full lock' so that the same amount of power is sent to each wheel regardless of wheel spin.
Rivian is a beast, love that thing. Just need to update the software to fix that power delivery issue.
A software update won’t solve nothing! You can’t beat physical locking diffs
@@alanmay7929 well thats totally BS
@@Neubs-xv8tw lol……. Let me just laugh mate, a software cannot physically locks the diffs cheers!!! The Nissan had barely one locking diff just like the Lexus, now imagine if they had 2 or 3! Basically no wheel spin at all and total control
@@alanmay7929 Not physically, but can replicate it it since each wheel can do whatever the software instructs it to do.
What drive mode was the Rivian in? Off-Road Rock Crawl?
Put proper tires, a 4 inch lift and aftermarket locking front diff on the frontier that thing would be beast
Once you go bigger than 3" on a Frontier, you might as well Titan swap the front end. Gets you a little wider with way more articulation, for about the same money
@@twinversbr I don't like to go wider due to rock chips.
I tried to do the most budget friendly not to the sky type lift with the rough country 2.5 leveling struts which took new $500 dollar upper control arms from alldogs offroad to keep from coil bucket contact and 2" adjustable prg shackles on the back and have 265 65 r17 stock size kenda klever rt's but other than going up in tire size a little that's all the lift this truck needs. It costed me way more than what it should since this truck should come from factory this high and I have no idea why they quit doing it at the factory that's just stupid. I may be wrong but I think a small lift alone would have made the frontier a better competitor to the tacoma, and I mean from the factory because offroad an equally equipped tacoma isn't going to out do the frontier that's just the way it is. With the same size lift and exact same tires and I'll go Nissan all day every day.
Oh and I have the older model not the new one but same difference ground clearance wise.
From what I see the frontier had the shittiest tires and ground clearance of the three if something was done about that what do you think it could do.
What trail is this on?
Airing down on the Rivian, and the second highest height would help a lot
I was already in the 2nd highest height. But, you’re right, airing down would have helped. I should have done that.
@@w3ranch Yeah, I saw that you mentioned the 2nd highest later. I am very jealous though, would loved to have been out there with my Rivian when it arrives. Or, just fallowing along with my TJ
@@Drek2U It was definitely fun. Come on out when you get yours. My LJ is getting jealous sitting in the barn.
@@w3ranch Would be a bit of a drive, since I am in Canada, but if I am ever out that way, will let you know. :)
🤣😂🤣 Did you bring a GAS generator to charge your Rivan? I hope that guy kept his jeep. Taco Supreme. But the Gx v8... hell yes!
I feel that Rivian could easily make this so much better with a software update.
Nope, physical locking is the way to go, I saw the rivian struggle at hells revenge compared to a 30 years old 90hp Toyota hilux. The rivian was also super loud!
@@alanmay7929 Most things will be inferior to the hilux. It pretty undefeated
@@alanmay7929 That was my point though, if they can control each wheel independently, they should offer a button that 'locks' i.e. just makes all the wheels turn at the same speed all the time. If you can modulate each wheel, it doesn't seem like it should be difficult to modulate them all at the same speed simultaneously.
In think is a matter of configuration, they don't aired down either.
@@mack86523 completely agree
What trail is this?
I don't see why they couldn't have a manual virtual locker that just locks the wheel speed on each pair of wheels to be the same. I don't see any reason why hardware would need to change to accomplish that.
What kind of milage did the Rivian get off road?
While we didn’t measure exact mileage, it seemed to be getting just under 2m/kWh. I get just over 2m/kWh in normal day-to-day driving. It was hard to track for sure since we were going up all the way in, then down all the way out. Going down was using very little energy, and the system maxes out at 4m/kWh measurement. The best part, though, was no idling. On a trip like this, the truck spends a lot of time sitting still while we watch friends play. I didn’t once have to turn a key to stop or start the engine. Just flick the switch to go forwards or back. Music played and climate control works without the inefficiencies of running an entire ice engine.
@@w3ranch Great point. Glad to see you enjoying such a great vehicle. The best part is after you’re don rock crawling, you can get back on the road, race a corvette and beat them without any modifications. The GX is nice for off road, but it’s expensive to drive it as a daily and won’t beat any cars on speed.
It would have been interesting to see some fuel consumption comparisons at the end.
I know Kyle's claiming this is not a review, but his comments sure express some opinions about the R1T's off-roading prowess based on what appears to me to be very inexperienced, reserved, and timid driving. Kyle made similar comments on a recent episode of the InsideEVs podcast, so I assume Kyle drove the R1T on this trail? With experienced driving, 200HP at each wheel should have been plenty for the R1T to cruise through this trail. Hoping to see better from Kyle et al and the R1T soon.
Lol…. The Nissan dominated while been making only rear diff locked, the Lexus IS litteraly decade year old.
@@alanmay7929 Unless I missed something, that Lexus only has Atrac and no lockers... And it could have been produced in as early as 2003. Lol
@@nos4blood70 it has center lock and a old traction control I don’t know if it’s atrac
Do you ever sleep?
i'm wondering if Alan May thinks a software update would be a good substitute for not having mechanical lockers...
Unfortunately nope! It’s not the solution and even ford just proved it on the ford lightning recently. Locking the motors together and also the rear or front wheels physically together brings significantly more control and less wheel spins…… you’re welcome
Even the hummer ev has a locking diff, it’s not a complicated setup like in gas cars lol….
I’d take the GX470 over the Rivian and pocket 100K
100k buys a lot of gas...
would have been interesting to compare the amount of energy used by the three trucks to complete the trail.
BTW, to have the four motors all spinning at the same speed doesn't seem a difficult thing to implement
Nope the range is the most important in this case lol….
@@alanmay7929 as long as you don't travel hundreds miles in your daily off roading ... just in your head
@@USUG0 trucks are made to be polyvalent and not having a great range is a big no go for a lot of people, people also likes to buy cheaper/used vehicles for their use and even used ICE still have better range than an EV
Rivian having 225 ft-lbs of torque per motor makes me wonder if he really wasnt giving it power on the climb or if the trucks just so heavy that even with 450 lbs of torque to the ground, it can’t go up without some kind of reduction gear. Being that it’s 7-8k lbs
It is strange that the hummer team seems to have figured out the virtual locker functionality already, but Rivian hasn't. Very much looking forward to seeing that critical update pushed out to these otherwise amazing vehicles. Kudos to the rivian owner in this video for putting it through this test for our enjoyment!
For your info’s, the hummer EV actually has a front physical/real locking diff
@@alanmay7929 that is correct. And the rear is a virtual locker. Like I said, if hummer can figure it out, why can't rivian.
@@austinw7028 again, the hummer EV has a front locking diff
@@alanmay7929 and what about the rear?
@@austinw7028 from the multiple videos that I watched the hummer EV only has locking diff on the front that’s it
Kyle, the pedestrian noise is *mandated* by NHTSA regulations with no legal options for the manufacturer to offer user bypass.
They could pretty easily geofence the pedestrian sound to tarred roads and switch it off when on trails. I hope there is a way to switch it off when someone dives into the code.
The noise is noticeable when close, but it dissipates pretty quickly once you get away from the vehicle. While it is still quieter than a gas engine, it would be nice to make it go away for those standing nearby and the passengers. Someday, maybe, we’ll have vector guided sound waves targeted only at pedestrians that aren’t looking directly at the truck, driven by the AI cameras. Until then, we can ask for a switch under specific conditions, or a pair of wire cutters (not recommend 😇).
Maker had to fit you don't have a illegal duty to fix it, ;-)
@@w3ranch It isn't quieter than gas engine. New cars are muuuuuch quieter in low speeds that EVs with these loud speakers. Neighbor's with teslas are louder in our driveway than any of the ice cars. Amusingly hybrids driving around here are on battery and don't have speakers but full EVs do.
Super curious how a lifted Model Y would do on a trail - i1 Tesla did some light trails at Moab but I’ve never actually seen a rigged-out Model Y
It has no flex, no lift, no locking diffs so it won't do very well.
A Model Y has no business on any off road trail, because it a car based cross over with no ground clearance.
The R1T has 4 independent motors. It doesn't need a clutch. It just needs software tweak to not send juice to the wheel that is up in the air free spinning, and send juice to the one(s) with traction.
Wrong! The rivian needs a physical locking diff to physical lock two motors/wheels together, software cannot compete with physical applications
A software locker could potentially be even better than a mechanical one in that it could take the steering angle into account and drive each wheel at the appropriate rate. This would make it possible to drive with the “lockers” on most of the time making it just that little bit easier on the tough trails.
But that’s a second priority. The current behavior with massive wheel spin on one wheel while the others are stopped is just awful. It’s probably very difficult to keep all 4 wheels at exactly the same rotation rate but I sure hope they can do better than what we see here. It seems to me that it should be possible to limit the wheel spin to a fraction of a revolution before the software figures out that the power needs to go elsewhere.
The Rivian should do much better after future updates. Not something that was able to be done with previous fuel vehicles
Stop talking nonsense, the rivian costs $80k compared to the Nissan Frontier $45k the Nissan only had rear locking diff and still beats the Rivian, now imagine the Nissan with three locking diffs!
Not impressed by the Rivian off-road. First thing I'd do with the Rivian is "Accidentally" disconnect one of the leads to that stupid pedestrian speaker.
So the same as any EV
So bottom line get a gx470 and save all your money.
Seems like the tires on the Rivian was its main limitation
Main limitation was me, the driver, and not knowing exactly how to finesse it over the terrain. The tires worked great, even though I was too lazy to air down, which would have also helped. We’ll have to post another video once I learn the finer points of electric off-road driving.
Tires are not really a problem, it’s the vehicle traction control….. a Range Rover can basically rock crawl with racing tires lol….
Look at this old Range Rover video th-cam.com/video/10wpwcBvnIY/w-d-xo.html
100% agree on EV pedestrian noise, it should turn off in off-road mode since it's artificial
I’ll say volume down and not completely off
Disappointed to see the Rivian struggle on this.
Physical lockers would solve all it's issues here.
@@migueljardim8177 How would that be possible if the truck has no front or rear diffs?
@@greggb681 You just need a physical connection between the motors in the rear and the motors which means that the torque will be multiplied to help it go cross over obstacles.
It’s not the Rivian struggling, it’s the driver (and that’s me). As I said in the video, there is some re-learning to drive with these new technologies. And man is it fun to learn.
@@w3ranch lol…. The Rivian was clearly struggling, I’ve watched a lot of rivian videos and it’s not the fault of the driver, a 20 years old truck has better off-road capabilities than that.
the TOYOTA GX looks good but it needs a lot of mods
The Rivian's traction control is not as smart as the one in the land rovers. I am not saying that the Rivian is less capable, but that is not as smart. No surprise here, Land Rover mostly invented the modern traction control system. Even is funny looking at the Rivian insisting in giving power to the ones that have no traction.
Rivian should let us shut off, completely, any of the four motors manually. For instance, if you want to save battery energy, you can drive with one motor only out of the four; or if two of the wheels have no traction at all, you can, completely, shut off the motors mounted to those two specific wheels which have zero traction. You get the idea.
No low transfer case, simply not enough torque. Jeep will make a better rock crawler EV* for sure.
The way they advertised the R1T was like it would instantly transfer power. It struggled the most. One day EVs will be worth their weight.
Just turn the comments off. Way too much idiocy and misinfo going on in this cess pool
to sum it up these trucks are nothing more than dog food haulers
You mean the rivian…….
10:00 was in a similar scenario with my R1T, difference being deep in mud. Was able to power the truck out of the rut with traction boards. At the peak of the rut the truck cut power and slipped back into the hole it was in. Wondering why the truck cut power completely as it did here at the 10 min mark?
The problem isn't the Rivian its the people that don't understand how it works. It has to spin the "free" wheels to "sense" when it gets traction again. If you matched wheel spin/speed it would not be able to do this. Yes a mechanical lock between motors could work but it would take away vectored control. Dont drive the Rivian like a wuss 🤣, give it hell, its smarter than you are.
Agree completely. I’m still learning….
Wrong, you are totally wrong!!!! I’ve seen many rivian videos and a locking diff on gas truck very easily defeats that rivian, heck a 30 years old Toyota hilux diesel with 90hp did better than a 800hp rivian! Lol….. there is no replacement for physical diffs
@@alanmay7929 this truck does have one certainly but that doesn't mean there isn't one, for example you could add wheel cut offs when not under load and max wheel speed so you can add more power with out the spinning wheels going mad there are many other options that's not to say locking differential are not a valid solution as well
@@alanrickett2537 the hummer EV also has a front locking diff.
@@alanmay7929 were did I mention the Hummer in anyway in this post ?
Anything's better offroad than the Prado/Lexus whatever
In which world!? Lol!!!!!! That’s a super old Lexus and doesn’t even have the proper locks for offroad
Can't watch it. Lol Too much money on those wheels 😱😂 cringe level overload
I would think twice about buying a Rivian. I ordered a prelaunch edition Rivian RT1 5 years ago. I ordered a fully loaded pickup for$ 73000.00, the truck they wanted me to buy for the same price was a stripped, basic truck. No tent, no roll out kitchen. so I canceled my order. I guess I will buy one of those ugly Tesla trucks... I still have not received my 1000.00 refund! I am not a happy camper! The truck is a good looking, but when a company wants to change the price on me, Kind of a bait and switch.
why are they trying to 4x4 these trucks? get something with front and rear lockers or stick to gravel roads? THEY HAD TO TAKE OFF THE OLD MAN STEPS LOL. Talk about embarrassing hay guys can you Waite a while so I can take of my steps. These trucks are for Home Depot not real 4x4ing . please keep these trucks of the trails your blocking our way for real 4x4s.
Do you guys have an instagram page?
Would like to follow.
Great video BTW!