Totally non biased suggestion, but I'd been keen to know who could defeat palpatine from star wars........... or you know, just someone that isn't thrones related.............. thrones, thrones........ ..everytime I look at our script folder...........THRONES 🥴 😂 Dayne is a good one though pal, though a hard mode challege, him and a young Selmy are basically untouchable
You still forgot a few combatants: Areo Hotah, Strong Belwas, Mind-controlled Hodor, Victarion Greyjoy, Lyn Corbray and of course Ser Robert Strong (wish we‘d know where that guy suddenly came from)
Bariston did kill Maelys the Monstrous. And the pretender to the throne was supposed to be massive and exceptionally strong. From the pictures he might be a little bigger than the Mountain. Which means if Bariston did it as a young man with little experience, then I am sure as an experienced warrior who has barely lost a step he would be able to do it.
True, but Barristan is also an old man, well past the prime of his physical peak, slower, weaker and with less stamina. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a beast of a swordsman, an absolute legend. Just nerfed by age. So it would be interesting.
Bariston, in the books, could have taken on anyone, except maybe Arthur Dayne. Even as an old man he'd dance around Gregor and end him without much effort.
Supposedly he was also a match for Dayne, so long as they had equal arms. It was Daynes sword Dawn that gave him the slight edge according to GRRM. Thanks for watching Itamar! Liam
One thing I always found funny, was Ned assigning poor lord Barric the impossible task of killing the mountain like it ain’t no thing. For all the acts of bravery and sacrifice in the series, Barric deserves credit for taking on that suicide mission without complaint.
I think Ned had faith in Berrics command abilities and likely expected him to lead Gregor into a trap/killzone or overwhelm him with sheer numbers. Otherwise yeah, if I were Berric I would have been cursing Neds name all the way along the kings road 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
He was our first ever pick in our first vid. The Prince made a fool of the Mountain. Had he not needed that confession, that fight would have been over so much quicker! Thanks for watching! Liam
And it wasn't even close - he just let his anger get the better of him. I think that's the blueprint - fast and agile highly skilled fighters - I think Arya could do it!
I completely agree with the assessment of Ramsay. His greatest asset is being able to catch his enemies off guard with Shock and Awe tactics. In the show, he fought the Ironborn without a shirt and covered in scratches with a grin on his face, an intimidating sight for raiders who know that they are out of their element infiltrating a castle. However, these tactics would amount to jack squat against the Mountain. It would be like the Battle of Yonkers in World War Z. Trying to use Shock and Awe tactics against someone who cannot be Shocked and Awed would let the Mountain Shock and Awe Ramsay when he stomps the little twit.
Thanks Bloodraven! We enjoy discourse and friendly disagreement, but we also appreciate it when someone says "yeah you guys go that one right" 😂 Yeah that's Ramsey's main advantage, fear and a favourable premeditated setup. Don't get me wrong I think he would take the best weapons for can opening, like a hammer, mace or anti armour pole arm and I'm sure he'd cover himself head to toe in his creepy flayed man plate armour, but against a fellow psychopath/sociopath (well some form of anti social personality disorder anyway) his fear tactics are going to be met with indifference and we just don't think he has the fighting skill to carry the day. Getting past 6ft of sharp heavy steel, then a thick oaken shield to try and clonk Gregor on the head requires some serious agility, reflex and most importantly of all patience. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
@@sameveland8560 absolutely, there's strong evidence to suggest Gregor is potenially a clinical pyscopath, if that is the case he'll actually be incapable of having anything resembling a typical fear response, he'd look at Ramseys creepy flayed man armour and see nothing but a suit of armour
I think Greatjon umber is honestly such a beautiful and good inclusion on this list. He’s basically an upgraded mountain. Roughly same size, maybe even stronger, with tons more experience. The sight of him dominating the mountain makes me happy
Yeah I want to see Greatjon Umber against the Mountain now. That fight never even occurred to me, but it would be a perfect and amazing match. Both men are giant beasts who can kill normal men with a single blow, so seeing them fight an opponent that is as massive as they are would be fun. Now throw in prime Robert Baratheon and you’d get a fight between giants that would probably shatter Westeros.
(Sigh) So much emphasis put on height/strength. Any skilled fighter with the right amount of speed and stamina could take out Gregor. The brute was wearing out after a few missed strikes.
Thanks Jeremy comments like this motivate us to keep trying to squeeze blood from this stone until our hands bleed because we dare not try anything new or orginal😂 but in seriousness comments like this make our day! Thanks for watching! Liam
Was it as a fighter he respected him? Or as a commander? I can't remember its been a while since I read the books. Won't disagree though, when you can bring fear and respect with a dumb sounding name like blackfish, the person behind that name must be pretty fierce. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverseI believe the Blackfish is described as a legendary swordsman in the books. If I remember when Jaime heard of his death he expresses his respect for him.
Jamie looked up to the blackfish as a teenager because He was a cool wayward guy who could mix in with great warriors but was suarve and coarse on top of it opposed to Barristan who squired him being the straighty 180 party police type of guy that no one wants to be around. Blackfish was like the swearing whoring uncle that all the kids think are pretty cool and their parents told them to steer clear of. He was Bobby b in fish clad armour
And Tully's unlike the show are described as big brawny coarse men who have jagged voices and big thick robust chins n shit, to Jamie being a little poncy lannister would've thought that was cool as hell and the blackfish prob gave him a wink and poked fun at Tywin infront of him when he was a kid I bet lol, like Aemond towards Daemon he just loves the rebel
I completely agree about Ser Barristan. Even when he old man, dismissed by Joffrey and humiliated, draws his sword before the throne, some of the king's guards stand between him and the throne. But even the Hound feels compelled to at least reach for his sword, knowing that the guards would be no obstacle to Ser Barristan
Loras did defeat The Mountain at the tourney, however, showing guile by using a mare who was in heat to...ah...distract The Mountain's charger. Point is, Loras showed a mind to exploit one of The Mountain's weaknesses, not just going head-to-head with The Mountain's advantages.
For sure Jerry 👍 its an extremely close run thing, out of all our picks, Loras is the one that would make The Mountain really work for it, and thats without assuming Loras will do something crafty. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@mattdouglas1050 What makes the Mountain really hard to beat is the amount of physical damage he can take and then recover in an instant to deliver a killing blow next moment just shocks people The guy fell of the horse that was in full speed wearing a really heavy full Armour just got up and killed the horse with one blow, a man that big would have suffered serious spinal injuries irl Same happened at Battle of Green Fork when his horse tripped and fell before the Northerners Spear Wall, Tyrion thought the Mountain is down and may be out, but he just got up unscracthed from beneath the horse and fought the entire battle
What makes the Mountain really hard to beat is the amount of physical damage he can take and then recover in an instant to deliver a killing blow next moment just shocks people The guy fell of the horse that was in full speed wearing a really heavy full Armour just got up and killed the horse with one blow, a man that big would have suffered serious spinal injuries irl Same happened at Battle of Green Fork when his horse tripped and fell before the Northerners Spear Wall, Tyrion thought the Mountain is down and may be out, but he just got up unscracthed from beneath the horse and fought the entire battle
Very true Amardeep! It's not landing a blow that's hard, its getting out of the way of Gregor when he powers through the pain to swipe at you or grab you. Our sweet Prince learned that the hard way.Thanks for watching! Liam
Also his insane reach (wields a Greatsword with one hand), his armor is so thick that it has to be custom made for him, I forget if Bronn says "he's surprisingly quick for a man of that size" in the books like he did in the show, but if so there's that too lol
@@GoodMorningBeautiful4 books pile it on even further Krogan by actually having stated that Gregor has good warrior instincts ( basically good fight IQ) and is actually somewhat skilled in all things knighty
It's called "Plot Armor". You'd be amazed at how good it is. Barney Fife could put it on and solo the Mountain with one hand and a leg tied behind his back.
I'd argue Syrio would be able to get the mountain. He has the dance to avoid the attacks, even at close range, and the accuracy to hit those elusive gaps. If he dances well, he can cut cut cut cut without being hit until the mountain dies.
We think his main issue is getting the mountain to a point where he's tired enough to fall down. Without the reach advantage (and thus a way of incentivising Gregor to close the gap and do the chasing) Syrio will have to do an awful lot of work moving in and out of the Mountains reach, while Gregor can kind of just stand there and wait for Syrio to engage (something he couldn't do with Oberyn who had the reach advantage) There's also the mountains sheer endurance and will power to kill even when wounded (and fatally poisoned) to consider, if Syrio lunges and lands a thrust into a gap, he's also got to get back out of the way of the very likely retaliatory swipe or potential grab coming his way. On a skill level though we totally agree, Syrio trounces Gregor, he'd dance around him like he wasn't even there. We're just skeptical of his ability to finish Gregor off without also himself getting Oberyned 😂 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts we appreciate it! Liam
@@shifterverse your arguments are fair against Syrio, but... You are kind of only paying attention to Syrio's weaknesses and playing the mountain as a monolith of swordsmanship. Gregor COULD stand there taking the hits and not exhaust him (although I don't think you understand how blood loss works, he'd get anemic after enough time passes and simply faint out, Syrio is the one character who could do the dance continually without failing, like... That's his whole thing) but it's unlikely that this temperamental guy who's known for lashing out at small stuff and go on rampages will keep his chill. As the combat moves forward, Gregor would become more and more reckless, giving Syrio more openings to hurt him.
@@leirumf5476 I don't personally think that Gregor is an amazing swordsman, though I do think people underestimate him as a big dumb brute, when the reality is he's a fully trained knight who's kind of supposed to be a subversion of the trope and a more realistic depiction of it. Though needless to say skill wise, Syrio has him licked. The issue I have with your argument (though I'll admit it's pretty well reasoned) is Syrio getting those wounds in. There's the plate, then the mail, then the gambeson (all much thicker than your average knights) to get through and before you even go for that wound you've got 6ft of great sword to get past and a massive oaken shield covering nearly one half of his body (at least with the book version and if the artwork is to be believed) Syrios most viable targets will be the back of the knees and the armpits (The least armoured areas) I reckon and I think where we might disagree is on whether or not Syrios fast enough to get at those spots without getting hit in return. The Mountain is said to be quicker than a man his size ought to be and while I know Syrio will point blank have greater agility I'm personally not sure if the gap is big enough for Syrio to prevent himself getting caught or maybe even grabbed, not when he goes for the poke, but when he goes to retreat. I will however concede to you that IF Syrio is fast enough, calm enough and sassy enough to frustrate Gregor into letting him have those openings. He could take it with a death by a thousand cuts strategy. Its that sword of Gregors that worries me the most. Rapiers can parry heavy swords contrary to popular belief, but they can also just as easily warp and break if hit hard enough many times in the right place. Though I doubt Syrio would be dumb enough to even contemplate crossing blades, likely just keeping distance and relying on evasion as his defence 😂
@@shifterverse The reasoning behind why Syrio could do the thousand cuts is similar to why Oberyn could land the one hit. While he relied on the reach of his weapon to land the hit safely, Syrio would be more than capable of crossing the gap and getting back to safety. Lets not forget that the one time we read of him fighting he was capable of both securing an escape for Arya while fighting a handful of men with a wooden sparring sword. So he definitely knows how to not get hit by swords while inflicting damage on opponents WHILE avoiding his sword from breaking WHILE keeping and securing enough ground.
The Hound was honoured enough to be in our first vid Moviegeek, you can find it here on the channel if your interested. He's one of the absolute safest bets you could possibly make on beating then monster. Thanks for watching! Liam
Disregarding the Age of Heroes, where (if the legends are to be taken at face value) most people would absolutely wreck the best of the modern day, I can nominate 23 worthy opponents for the Mountain in recent history: - Ser Arthur Dayne, "the Sword of the Morning" - Ser Barristan Selmy, "the Bold" - Ser Jaime Lannister, "the Kingslayer" - Prince Oberyn Martell, "the Red Viper" - King Robert I Baratheon, "the Demon of the Trident" - Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, "the Last Dragon" - The Smiling Knight - Captain-General Maelys I Blackfyre, "the Monstruous" - Lord Yohn Royce, "the Bronze Knight" - Brienne of Tarth, "the Sapphire Knight" - Sandor Clegane, "the Hound" - Ser Garlan Tyrell, "the Gallant" - Ser Loras Tyrell, "the Knight of Flowers" - Prince Daemon I Blackfyre, "the Black Dragon" - King Aegon I Targaryen, "the Conqueror" - King Maegor I Targaryen, "the Cruel" - Ser Gerold Hightower, "the White Bull" - Ser Gerold Dayne, "the Darkstar" - Captain Areo Hotah, "the Holy Guard" - Ser Brynden Tully, "the Blackfish" - Prince Aemon Targaryen, “the Dragonknight” - Lord Cregan Stark, “the Wolf of Winterfell” - Sandoq, "the Shadow" Disregarding armor as a factor, also these three: - Syrio Forel, the First Sword of Braavos - Khal Drogo, "the Great Khal" - "Strong" Belwas
I just discovered this channel last night and I am HOOKED! I’ve no clue if you guys have done anything on the show Spartacus and their gladiators and warriors, but I will check. Would be fun, if not. You guys do great assessments and I’d love to see their weapons, advantages, disadvantages explained with the humor of this channel. That show was so fun to me.
Robert Baratheon in his prime is the deadliest Warrior in the Seven Kingdoms. He uses a Big Warhammer. He's Fast and Strong. He could make a short work of Both Hound and the Mountain. There's a reason why he's called the DEMON. Arthur Dayne and Barristan were best swordsman. Robert was a Skilled warrior and a Brilliant battle commander.
Which is why he was our number 1 pick in P1 😂 Bobby B would finish the mountain quickest of the lot, one clonk of that hammer and its night night gregor 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Ppl also forget that Warhammers are made for beating ppl in plate armor.. if you have a sword you are not getting thru plate armor, only at the neck and under the arm, which would be extremely hard against a great warrior such as Robert. His wounds from Rhaegar always puzzled me. Where were they? How did it happen??
@@coldhands2802 There are ways of utilising a sword vs plate, I think there is a move in one of the old manuels called "the murder stroke" where you essentially turn your sword around and use the crossguard like a hammer which i suppose backs up your point 😂 other than that you are correct though, its ethier thursting into the gaps or getting the point in a joint and hoping you can pry it open somehow. Greatswords can also be effective providing its reasonably heavy and used more like a club and the raw concussive force can transfer through the layers. I too wonder where Bobby was wounded. Maybe his arm pit? One final defiant thrust from the dragon before having his chest caved in?
@@coldhands2802 Fantasy generally over-uses swords, no matter how 'realistic' the setting - they were pretty uncommon in actual combat by the era of what amounts to GoT's tech level. That being said, a sword is still basically a long slap of iron. And if it's the Mountain swinging that iron-stick you're not just getting away with a concussion or a broken rib - a straight hit and you're wrecked, armor or not
@@minnumseerrund Very ture! Most fantasy touts them as a primary weapon for a knight when in reality they are the equivalent of a pistol/sidearm. Handy if you've got nothing else to hand or in civilian circumstances, but not quite as battlefield capable as a polearm.
A rapier is actually a bit better than some longswords against an armored opponent, it's much easier to find the gaps in the helmet with a smaller point. Also, remember that no swords are meant for fighting against any armor. Even linen gambesons can stop the best swords.
Well said, swords aren't really optimal anti armour weapons in general with the Estoc/Tuck been a rare exception. Some manuals show the best way to leverage a long sword against armour is to turn it around and use it like a hammer, the move is called the "murder stroke" which is pretty badass 😂 Rapiers didn't really see much use vs armour and were certainly not intended for armour like some people state, they were designed with civilian duelling in mind, their original name Espada Ropera literally translates to Robe/Dress Sword. The point about gaps is valid as a fine thrust point is going to fit in smaller gaps, but yeah even if Syrio gets into a gap he's then got to get through mail and gambeson. Moral of the story, don't take a sword against armour unless you have no choice. Give me a nice hammer or polearm any day! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@davidlewis5312 Very true, against plate, its practically useless. The gaps are your only hope and good luck getting to them if your opponent is even reasonably competent 😂
I hear that blunt weapons aren't that great against plate unless you get your opponent in the head. Anything else is unlikely to do serious damage. Pretty good for cavalry as you can crunch down on infantry. Swords are still reasonable if you can find a gap whilst stabbing. They are however more likely to get stuck than a blunt weapon. A polearm that can pierce or chop would be nice, with a pointy dagger for close work.
The problem is that the knight knows you are going to try and stab him in the face, so he's just going to bat the rapier away and then stab you. You would need a thicker sword you use wrestle with the knight and then shove the point through his visor. Fghts with armor are more like MMA matches than fencing matches. You need to grapple your opponent. Which is why in real life, the only characters who could beat the mountain would be people who were almost as strong as him. You don't need to be as freakish huge, but for instance Jamie Lannister would have to be jacked. Knights were all big dudes, they were basically the nfl players of their day.
Water dancing sword could be an estoc/tuck. It's an edgeless sword that's made purely for thrusting, and was quite good at getting into the gaps of plate armor.
We see a water dancer in the pits of Mereen, most definitely a rapier inspired sword he uses :p a few people have suggested the Estoc/Tuck, its a good shout and certainly doesn't hurt Syrios chances but that sword was designed with the user also been armoured in mind. It takes dedicated effort to drive even a thrust centric sword through a gap in plate armour (there's still the mail and gambeson to get through and to make it worse Gregors will be much thicker than your average knights) our doubt isn't Syrio landing his shot, its him successfully retreating when the retaliation arrives, 6ft of greatsword is quite a big kill zone and we know gregor is much quicker than he looks. Thanks for watching! Liam
Good suggestion on the skill front! I'm a little worried about his lack of armour though, one mistake and Mance is going to be in two halves lol. I can't remember how quick he is in the books? You need some pretty good speed and agility if your going against the beast without substantial armour. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
Beating a 15 year old with no real battle experience is not the best feat ever, but if i am not wrong, he killed every person who challenged him for the position of king beyond the wall which is pretty impressive
Mance isnt much of a fighter as is Jon. Show Jon was portrait as a very strong fighter but when you look at book Jon he is surely castle trained and has some experience but nothing special.
@@Seelenverheizer id have to agree, its why we put Jon down as a can't in p2. Jon is good, maybe even mildly talented but nothing exceptional by a long stretch
I’m pondering why these characters were not included as possibilities to defeat the Mountain. 1) Strong Bella’s comes to mind - strictly book character I know. Champion of the Pits. Massive. Very quick and used to destroying all types of warriors. 2) Areo Hotah. Extremely skilled, especially with a battle axe. Massive. As big as if not bigger than the Mountain. Extremely fast. I can see him sparring with Oberon and winning. 3) Young Robert Baratheon. Big. Extremely skilled. Wears full plate. That hammer caved Rhaegars plate.
I find it weird whenever people do Gregor Clegane vs X videos, they completely forget he's an expert fighter. Even from the start of the duel he immediately moves to put the sun behind his back and blind Oberyn, and he's been in all kinds of battles across Westeros; pitched battles, skirmishes, duels, melees, ambushes and more. The only reason Oberyn beats him is that he's using multiple specialised spears that have all been poisoned with an incredibly potent venom that takes effect almost immediately, he's using bronze scaled armor polished to a gleam so even if the sun shines on him it can reflect back at the mountain, and he was an expert warrior who'd spent pretty much his entire adult life preparing for that singular fight and planning it out.
@@shifterverseIt'd take more than one hit from Robert to take down the mountain. Even if it's Robert from the books. The mountain in his armour is on another level of durability. Rhaegar was only 5'11 and much smaller than Robert which played a big role in him beating him. I'd say Robert's fighting style was also not apt to go against the mountain who could easily beat him at his own game by using his own immense size and strength to win. Still I think if Robert could disarm the mountain he might be able to get in a few good hits in gregors weak spots. Maybe land a haymaker on his arm to break some bones. I think Robert would win if he fought accordingly but it certainly won't be easy.
@@KingSlayer_.Robert was also one of the strongest men alive in his time which with a Warhammer would actually make short work of Gregor's armor since Warhammers are specifically designed for fighting plate armored opponents
Robert might have been a fool as a king. But he was a legendary warrior, one of the greatest to ever grace a battlefield in the GoT universe. Not only did he possess monstrous strenght, but his skill with the warhammer was unmatched. He did not rely on his strenght alone, his skill was formidable. He was fearless, but not careless. I strongly believe that Robert could've obliterated the Mountain, since his warhammer is designed to fight plate armored enemies, which would've played into his hands a lot.
Ramsay also isn't very bright in commanding who loose's arrows into their own men like that during battle? That's a great way for them to turn on you. Plus he had no one scouting to see the army of the vale ready to flank him when he wasn't paying attention. With Syrio there is a thing as a war rapier.
Even a broad bladed rapier presents the same challenges for Syrio vs Gregors plate. Rapiers in general just aren't made with facing armour in mind. The speed and accuracy required in the lunge to get it into a gap is absolutely insane, especially when those joints and openings are fighting back. Regarding Ramsey, you make some good points, though I don't think anyone would have anticipated the Vale showing up, they didn't come down and fight for Rob or get involved in the war of the 5 kings whatsoever. Thanks for watching! Liam
Loosing Arrows into a scrum with your own men in the way has happened a few times though in History. Usually a desperate last measure though. In Fiction though, It all depends on the Culture of the Warriors. It's entirely plausible that Men that know the other ways Ramsey could have you killed wouldn't think twice about it. Would you rather be flayed or maybe take an Arrow? I could see it as a very plausible tactic when fighting a battle with "allies" that are the "enemy of my enemy" types. If you and I both hate each other but we got a shared threat and thus are forced to work together, I don't particularly care if I hit you as long as I'm also hitting them. Cannon Fodder is a real thing.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 Which is fine, but nowhere does it say Syrio wields a rapier, let alone a specialised anti armour one. That was us been as kind as possible based on the description of water dancing swords. We actually see a water dancer in the fighting pits of Mereen and while his blade takes inspiration from the rapier, its shorter and most certainly not an Estoc. Even if you give Syrio an Estoc, he still has the issue of reach, leverage and the fact he's unarmoured to contend with (The Estoc was designed as a battlefield weapon with the wielder also been armoured with plate in mind) . You can't agility lunge a one handed thrust oriented sword into armour gaps and then immediately retreat like you can with unarmoured fencing. It takes some dedicated commitment to get a sword through both mail and Gambeson (and that's assuming he's targeting an unarmoured spot, if he targets a joint he's also got to pry through that). Then we also can't forget everything The Mountain wears is much thicker than standard, meaning even more effort to get through. Even an Estoc has got to be driven through to wound and that's where Syrio runs into trouble. Gregor was capable of powering through several bee sting wounds (The type Syrio would be capable of inflicting) and a spear in his gut to kill Oberyn. Our issue isn't Syrio finding his mark, its him been able to drive it through and then get back to a safe distance when the inevitable retaliation arrives. Oberyn could do this because he had 8ft of reach with his spear (in the books) that's a 2ft reach advantage on Gregor's 6ft greatsword. Even if you give Syrio the longest possible Rapier/Estoc (before it becomes unwieldy for a man of his height at least) he's at best got about 3.75 ft of reach, putting him in the kill zone every time he wants to try to take a poke. You can give Syrio a specialised sword, but even with that his tool kit just isn't optimal to fight what is essentially a human tank. I wanted to put him on the can list, but after consulting associates who are dedicated HEMA practitioners, they argued me into the ground on why it just isn't remotely favourable for our favourite Bravossi.
When you take away the armor a lot of people could. He's big, he would be a target on the battle field and taken down by multiple men. But also that great sword he uses.. no matter how big you are, you would eventually get tired and slow using it. The Spear is a good weapon for a reason, endurance.
Aye Travis that tank level armour definitely does a good 60-70% of work for Gregor, he can attack with near impunity with it. Take that armour away and nearly all of our can'ts would make quite short work of him! Thanks for watching! Liam
Anyone with a .50BMG, a Win Mag .300 or a .470 Nitro Express… but they better not miss. But frankly, The Mountain needed to be taken down like a rabid animal. He’s too much of a liability and too violent for his own good.
We touched on Arthur in our first Vid, he'd take victory quite easily. When the finest swordsman ever thinks your the finest swordsman ever, you know your pretty up there as a swordsman 😂 We may get to HOTD vs the mountain at some point, everything I've seen and read of daemon so far leads me to think he would beat Gregor quite handily. Duncan seems capable of it. As for Victarion, we're kind of split and haven't made up our minds. Hes fierce thats for sure, but is he patient enough to outlast Gregor? Thanks for watching! Liam
Cirio was the first blade of bravos, so he surely was quite the duelist. Also there are thicc rapiers which seems much more like what they use in Bravos.
Oh we know he was quite the duelist, we see it first hand when he schools armoured knights without a proper sword. Its his equipment that plays against him. Even a broad bladed war rapier (and that is best case scenario, they might use small swords for all we know) doesn't play amazing well against full plate armour. Combined with the reach difference between the two and Syrio is in a lot of trouble. Thanks for watching! Liam
Bron is well aware he cant beat the mountain which played a role in his calculus for not fighting the mountain. There was not a large enough castle is Westerous to tempt Bron to try.
See we thought that, yet both Tywin and Cersei saw fit to offer him (A jumped up sellsword and little more than scum in their eyes) a wife and a castle to bribe him into not standing for his little friend. Even they thought he had enough of a chance that they thought it best to stamp out the possibility of him even trying. If they knew he knew he couldn't beat him, why go to all that trouble. Better to let Tyrion have him as champion and guarantee his loss fairly than risking someone more competent take his place (which ended up happening) Thanks for watching! Liam
If I recall correctly Bron from the book, he himself stated that while it technically might be possible with luck, even the slightest slip up would lead into his death. He said that Mountain is freakishly fast for a man his size. So he figured, why chance it at all, since he got better offer for NOT fighting anyways
He never said he can’t. He said he won’t take the chance. He is the 1 fighter I trust the most to take down the mountain because of everyone he is completely honest about what 1 fuck results in and won’t make the mistake oberyn did by fucking around..
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I really like that you're not making this a popularity contest. Drogo, Tormund, Syrio, Brienne, I get it, we'd all want them to win. But they just wouldn't. Tormund, Brienne and Drogo are fast and strong, but play directly to the Mountain's strengths as you said. And Syrio has the right idea, but would have the wrong execution, The man is like 5'4. The Mountain is 8ft and literally has inhuman strength. That is just unwinnable if plate armor is involved. I'm 6ft with 12 years of mixed martial arts (Judo, BJJ, Kickboxing, MMA), two of which I've done competitively, and I've also done HEMA as a hobby which I got real good at real fast likely due to my experience in combat sports as the two are more similar than most think. My absolute nightmare in each of these sports as a slender fast paced fighter are huge lumbering brutes of men who have at least 50lbs and a few inches of height on me. I can't imagine what it'd be like fighting The Mountain. It's realistically impossible. Even with a lance or halberd or spear, he could literally just waltz into it, clamp it against his plate, and then either rip it from your grasp or just pull you in closer with it. And then he can literally tear off limbs and pop your skull in seconds. Worst of all, even if you had a literal endless open field without elevation or anything else to hinder you, you'd STILL not have any reasonable chance because his sword is like 6ft too, meaning even with a polearm he's still the one with the reach advantage. So you're screwed at range, and screwed if you're close. Pure nightmare fuel. And the likes of Syrio fighting him with at best a 40 inch blade and at worst a 22 inch one would just be pure carnage for him. He's a 5'4 agile ping pong player who'd have to get in close to deal damage - against The Mountain who mainly uses his hands to end fights because he can crush normal men in seconds... Yeah. I really love these videos. You're probably the first to actually reasonably deduct why The Mountain would win/lose against the top dogs of ASOIAF.
@@TheFandomeClips Yup, won't miss it. I don't give Strickland much of a shot. He won't outpoint Izzy, and Izzy's chin is far too solid for Strickland's casual grinder no-risk style. Strickland is what I call a comfort fighter. You need the opposite for Izzy. I'm more looking forward to Tai VS Volkov. That's the main event for me.
Thanks Dude comments like this honestly make our day! People sleep on The Mountain and write him off as a big dumb slow brute without realising he's the subversion and realistic depiction of that very trope. He's actually well trained and has good fighting instincts to pair with his size and strength. The guy who beat him wasn't just one of the best, he was likely the greatest overall fighter alive at that point with prodigy levels of skill and intelligence, and even he was cautious as hell 😂😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverse Yeah that's why I love The Mountain as a character too. He isn't a big dumb brute. He's a big, cunning, relatively skilled, surprisingly fast brute who plays to his own strengths extremely well and has surprising fight IQ.
What makes these what if fights difficult is the fact that it would only take 1 good swing from the Mountain to kill 90% of the characters throughout Asoiaf, even the best fighters could make a mistake and lose an arm to his monstrous sword.
Precisely Kryzzan! He's not a pushover at all and has to be approached with caution. Even one of the greatest warriors around at the time played it very very safe to get his win. Thanks for watching! Liam
Re: Syrio vs the Mountain See: Braavosi vs Jorah in the Great Pit Mostly armored and armed, Jorah went toe to toe against a Braavosi, and was getting his butt handed to him. The Braavosi had him on the ground and dead to rights, before taking a spear through the back. So...... Syrio was probably better than the pit fighter. But the Mountain is actually fully armored, and his armor is a lot heavier than normal, so as far as actual combat go, I don't think Syrio could actually get through it. And even if he somehow gets his rapier through the armor, it'll be a tiny cut that probably won't do much, and the Mountain can shrug off most of those attacks, get close and end it.
That's the issue really. Syrio would certainly make Gregor look foolish, but he wouldn't be able to finish The Mountain off. Generally historically (not always but most of the time) a thin dainty blade (Usually a dagger) defeated full plate armour because one knight would wrestle the other to the ground and stab through the visor or wedge it into joints or the few parts of the body that were unarmoured like the armpits. Too big of a size gap I think for Syrio to do any wresting 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
I find it to be a rather flawed assumption that Syrio of all people is going to take a rapier into a fight against the mountain. The first sword of Braavos is chosen for their cunning and tactics as much as their sword fighting ability. It's definitely not something you can say definitively but I find it very likely that Syrio is well versed in quite a few weapons with reach that he could have been able to utilize against the mountain and he would have come into the fight with a very similar plan of attack to the viper. I believe he would do whatever it takes to win. You don't become the first sword of braavos and have no ability to counter long swords and plate. In no way is it a sure thing, but im saying its a coin flip.
@@kcl5038 absolutely dude, we just didn't want to speculate and make assumptions, we know he's a swordsman and we know his chosen sword is some kind of rapierish weapon (Rapier is best case scenario too, could be a small sword for all we know) All these fighters could surprise us given prep, but we have to go with what we know about them
"He was… a painter. A painter who only used red. I couldn’t imagine being able to fight like that, not back then. And to help him do that, to be part of something that… perfect… It’s like stepping into a dream you’ve been dreaming for as long as you can remember and finding out that the dream is more real than your life". I'm pretty sure Jamie would bet on sir Barristan as would I.
it always annoyed me how wun wun wasnt given heavier armour in the battle of the bastards. he is basically a seige machine. so youd think youd add some armour to his most vulnourable areas
He was our top pick in our first vid. One good clonk with that hammer is all it would take. He was supposedly inhumanly strong and insanely fast. He trash Gregor worse than Oberyn did in our opinion! Thanks for watching! Liam
I agreed with most of your takes, but I'm not sold on the Greatjon. A big part of your rationale is that Gregor would be out of his element against someone just as big. But Ned Stark says that Hodor is bigger than Greatjon Umber and the Mountain makes even Hodor look like a child beside an adult.
I think there's about a foots difference in them Rusty, not so much just as big, but in the same league size and strength wise as Greatjon is also built like a brickshit house just like Gregor. I'd still favour Gregor for strength, but I don't think Greatjon is so far behind he can't keep up, and then his experience and skill kind of tip it for him. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
Water dancing swords sound very much like an estoc. 'The French estoc is a type of sword, also called a tuck in English, in use from the 14th to the 17th century. It is characterized by a cruciform hilt with a grip for two-handed use and a straight, edgeless, but sharply pointed blade of around 90 centimetres to 130 cm in length.'
We see a water dancer in the pits of Mereen (and this was when GRRM was consulting on the show) it was most definitely a rapier inspired sword he was using not an Estoc. Even an Estoc has the same issues as a standard Rapier, its just more sturdy in the thrust. Its also a battlefield weapon and is designed with the user also been fully armoured in mind. Thanks for watching! Liam
with and ONLY with the main character buff combined with his destiny as the prince who was promised does he stand a chance 😂 bit like how Anakin couldn't possibly lose to Sidious, despite on a skill level that fight been hopelessly one sided. We did address Jon in P2. Thanks for watching MrWeirdo! Liam
He is not MC, GRRM is a sick bastard and evil. Honestly, GRRM's main character was Cersei, the most evil bitch in the show. S8 ending was decided as per GRRM, thats why the bastard not releasing his book.
I never understood why Robert or anyone else in Westeros feared the Dothraki. The fuck are they gonna do when they have no armor and wield Iroqs or however you spell them? Seriously. Robert's army could literally make pikes and the battle is over in minutes
I think its more their archery and mobility on an open field that Robert feared and most of all their unity. Its only in the show but that scene where he explains the difference between 5 and 1 really sells me on his mentality regarding them and his own forces. But your right, they aren't an insurmountable threat in the slightest. Thanks for watching! Liam
For the same reason people feared the Mongols. They are shit for siege, but in an open battle they’re fast and unstoppable with tremendous reach and even mounted archery at their disposal, which no Westerosi culture has. They could take over bountiful villages as well and block off economic routes without even having to attack a single castle.
My guess is that the plan was never for the Dothraki to be Viserys' only army. It was jut an army that could raid towns, strike at the food supply, and thus starve people out. Which would keep the Targaryens as a legit contender for the throne. Then they hoped that other Westerosi would back the true Targaryen ruler.
So damn glad you had Greatjon in here and for a win. Dude is a freaking Boss! And the idea of a sober and pissed off Greatjon facing the Mountain or hell anyone would be DAMN scary. And I bet the sight of him on th me battle field side by side with a young Robert was a sight to behold. And yeah Robert has his freaking warhammer but he fights with swords too so in that sword to sword what are your thoughts on Greatjon and Robert fight? I have the Greatjon as the winner
The LOTR fighters are significantly stronger than anyone in the GOT verse though. They fight off magical beings and actual giant monsters very consistently while creatures like Giants and Dragons in the GOT can easily take on dozens to hundreds of warriors at once
Good points. GRRM did say though that Jamie Lannister was a better swordsman than Aragorn though. Definitely not a great comparison though considering how they treat things 😂 - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips Well, I dunno, Aragorn has more experience than Barristan had years of life, and IIRC, he fought and won against actual trolls, and they dwarf even The Mountain...
@@sinistertwister686 Trolls in fantasy are rarely trained warriors, same with all the creatures really. The only seemingly trained warriors in LOTR are Nazguls, Uruk Hai and Orc to an extent. Anyone from GoT would be able to adapt to a world with creatures like these. That's the great thing about most fantasy warriors, their ability to overcome these enemies despite just being human.
Assuming that The Mountain would be fighting in armor (highly likely), then one would need to be familiar with fighting armored opponents to beat him in a fight (whether in battle or a duel). This would likely eliminate the Dothrakis and Wildlings from contention.
Im no history buff my means but ive seen a few swords in my day. There are long swords and even great swords forged with tapered points which where used in a thrust and half sword style to thrust in-between armor pieces. A river sword could be no more than an average arming sword with a tapered point. Which is what you would want if you are facing down a heavily armored opponent without a polearm. Im sure there's a history buff who could add on with specifics but those thrusting swords were absolutely brutal in a shieldwall or fighting line.
We actually see a water dancer in the fighting pits of Mereen. It's most definitely a rapier inspired sword he's wielding. You are right though, the Estoc/Tuck was a long sword designed for prying into armoured gaps. Though it was designed with the user also been armoured in mind since it was a battlefield weapon. Thanks for watching! Liam
Here’s someone that would make short work of Gregor rather easily- Guts from Berserk. He’d dumpster fire the Mountain with virtually zero effort 😆. Hell I’d pick a 12 year Guts to beat him.
Idea: since GRRM was involved in Elden Ring, what about Elden Ring bosses vs. the Mountain? - Godrick: pfftt mwhahahaha - Radahn: much bigger. wears heavy armour but pretty damn fast. has gravity magic and a massive bow that uses spears for arrows. he'd wipe the floor with the Mountain. - Rennala: would die in 5 seconds. no armour, extremely staggerable, not enough health. - Morgott: no armour, pretty agile and fast but likely no chance against Gregor - Rykard: Is a giant snake with fire/lava powers. unless you give Gregor the Serpent Hunter, not even a contest. - Fire Giant: is the fucking Fire Giant. - Godskin Duo: no armour but there's two of them and they have ranged attacks / weapons with good reach. Gregor could probably take on one but not both at once. - Maliketh: Gregor would get him to phase transition very fast, and then he could never land a hit again while Maliketh does his anime backflips and destined death's him into oblivion. - Gideon: "I knew you would come... I NEED HELP!" *dead* - Godfrey, First Elden Chad: his armour is not that great but his massive earthbending AoEs and his axe would likely stunlock Gregor. - Radagon: no armour. can teleport and has AoEs but if Gregor ever catches him, he's dead. - Elden Beast: is massive, keeps running away, pretty tanky, spams magic. Gregor doesn't have a chance. - Mohg: Gregor could probably hold his own for a while... exactly until NIHIL. - Malenia: is Malenia. - Rick (true form): is Rick - any dragon boss: is a dragon - Astel: huge, teleports, has tons of ranged attacks - Dragonic Tree Sentinel: massive armour, is on a horse that can breathe fire, has plenty of ranged attacks and a big fuckoff weapon. - Crucible Knights: big, badass motherfuckers in heavy armour with ranged options and hard-hitting weapons. - Commander Niall: heavy armour, ranged attacks/AoEs, long weapon, dirty cheater who summons two more knights.
I haven't played Elden Ring yet but I'm sure when we're milking every last drop of this series we'll get to video games bosses 😂 thanks for the idea and thanks for watching! Liam
What about prime Ned Stark? Now, the Mountain would definitely be favored, but Ned is a warrior of quite some repute (at least enough repute to have the thought of him killing Ser Arthur Dayne plausible to the average Westerosi). Think about it, if Ser Meryn Trent claimed he defeated Ser Arthur Dayne, the average person would say, "Hell No he didn't" (the Hound doesn't believe he could beat Syrio Forrel), but Ned returns from the Tower of Joy (With Dawn) claiming to have killed Ser Arthur, and everyone accepts it. At a bare minimum, he would have a knowledgeable fighter; such as the Mountain's, full respect when facing off against him. He possesses a Valyrian greatsword (good reach and good against plate armor) and a ton of actual, battle experience fighting other, Kings guard skilled, plate-armored, opponents (like at the Tower of Joy). As I said, I would still favor the Mountain, but I think Ned would be a very "lively underdog" as the betters like to say.
We don't really know how good Ned was, he's merely speculated to be above average. However, to not die immediately to Dayne (Called the greatest swordsman ever by the greatest swordsman ever) requires some well above average skill and fighting instincts, even with back up. He also (show version only) acquitted himself against Jaime fairly decently (Though not even the most die hard Ned fan could say he had the upper hand) He grew up with and trained with Bobby B (maybe the greatest warrior of his era) and some of that might have rubbed off on Ned and Selmy (in the show) compliments Neds skill and prowess. So it could all be humility on Neds part. Ice does lend a certain degree of levelling the playing field, helps with reach, more manuverable than standard steel and obviously some degree of magical-ness to the blade. I think I'd put Ned in a similar camp to Loras, I wouldn't count him out, but I wouldn't put my dragons on him 😂😂 Thanks for watching and the suggestion Guiness! Liam
@@shifterverse I agree with most of what you are saying, but as far as how good Ned was, he was a very accomplished warrior / general in Robert's rebellion where he won many battles and even lifted the siege of Storms End. That experience combined with his ability to hold his own against Dayne (as a younger fighter) and Jamie (as an older man) lead me to believe the Mountain would not just run through Ned. I also think Ned was a humble person and believe Selmy legitimately was aware of how good a fighter Ned was. So I would consider Ned to be an upgraded version of Garlan Tyrell (whom you thought could beat the Mountain), but would still favor the Mountain with his size, strength and brutality, but a Ned victory would not surprise me. I may just throw a dragon on the Lord of Winterfell lol.
I said this last round. With Ice, he'd have a bigger advantage than most against the Mountains armor. I think that scene with Barristan shows he has that same quality as Brown of knowing exactly how good he is and isn't. I think he's the "light" version of Bobby B from the previous video. Not quite as good as fighting, Ice is probably marginally less useful against plate than the warhammer Bobby uses, but I still think he could pull through. Better than even odds, at least. Sure one screw up and he's done, but most of these situations fall into that category. As you said, he at least lived through a fight with Arthur Dayne, which a whole lot of other people didn't, no matter how much help they had.
Still think, the Hound!!!! He wasa brutal warrior, and showed a kind side to Area at the end of the series, but he was on a mission the whole damn series!!!!°°
"Who could defeat Victarion" would be a better topic. He's a monster that's been engaged in way more actual combat than any knights of westeros and he's tricked out in legendary equipment.
Tormund is an interesting one. Would they meet beyond the wall? That kind of frost might be a total duck to the Mountain's plate. I don't know if it would gather frost as body heat might help, but especially after a longer campaign it could. But if he doesn't have the right footwear, he'd likely slip fairly easily and have a hell of a time getting up. If they met south of the wall I'd say Mountain every time.
We always assume it's a trial by combat with an exploitable environment like we see in the show (like furniture and potential human shields) but not any unfavourable weather conditions. Otherwise you can open up a big can of worms (A lightly armoured fighter will probably fair better in an extremely hot arid environment if they can outlast their opponent ect...) Thanks for watching Aleksi!
Thank you for recognizing the difference between soldiers and duelists. It always annoys me when someone says a character must be a great one-on-one fighter because they fought a lot of battles. Granted, it seems like in the GOT world that Westerosi battles were basically huge melees, or at least that's the way they were portrayed in the show. Danaerys probably could've taken the whole continent with just the Unsullied because those "let me just run really fast towards the enemy and start swinging away" fighters wouldn't stand a chance against a real phalanx formation.
Your welcome Billy! Yeah its kind of like comparing a quick draw champion against a member of the SAS. In a one on one open ground duel? Sure I'm backing the quick draw champ. In a battle where its an SAS squad against a squad of quick draw champs, I'm backing the guys who dare and win EVERY SINGLE time 😂 Thanks for watching Billy! Liam
Someone did mention Sandoq the Shadow, (book-only/ Fire & Blood) a mute giant with heavy armor and Valyrian steel would eat the Mountain wven though he’s a foot shorter. Valyrian steel has been described as easily piercing mail and imagine that with inhuman strength behind it? Also a note about Ramsay, in the books Roose says that Ramsay was trained by Reek who himself had no formal training at arms, he is ferocious but “swings that sword like a butcher hacking meat”. So while he may be cunning, Gregor has him beat easily with skill as well as size, strength, reach, and battle instinct.
Sandoq would be one of the few people in the whole ASOIF universe that could legitimately frighten the Mountain (Who displays the markers that he's potentially a psychopath with a highly supressed fear response) 😂 Ramsey isn't beating The Mountain without some serious pre battle sabotage which he's capable of, but we don't think it's fair to consider that in a trial by combat scenario, especially since the Lannisters would likely keep him somewhere safe before the fight. Thanks for watching! Liam
See we kind of thought the same. But something we came to realise is that Cersei/Tywin saw fit to bribe Bronn to prevent him taking the fight, arranging a marriage and lordship is quite a bit of effort, especially for a jumped up sellsword. So even Cersei and Tywin thought Bronn had it in him to do it. Hes on the bottom end of our fighters who can, but we think there is a hefty enough amount of dirt going in Gregors eyes to give Bronn the edge. Thanks for watching! Liam
If we stick to the skills and physicality from the books: Oberyn Martell (he actually pulled it off but dragged it out way too much), Daario, Jamie with 2 hands, Sandor, Brienne, maybe Barristan. That's it.
Sir Bariston. It is a shane how they killed him off. there is now way he would be whitout his armor in this Situation and in his armor he would have killed them all and got away... but if they really had to get rid of him, then at least in a more Honororable fight..
100000000% Jenss. Even the actor was quite disgusted with the way they killed him off. He had so much more to give as a character. I would have rather he'd die of old age like maester Aemon. Let him go out undefeated and maintaining his status as the paragon of knighthood he represented! Thanks for watching! Liam
Thanks Spadinner! Thats the issue really, while there is some cross over of skills, its two totally different scenarios. But like pitting a quick draw champ against a member of the SAS, in a duel my money would be on the champ, in a squad vs squad engagement on the battlefield id be backing the SAS all day! Thanks for watching! Liam
Only pure skill could defeat the Mountain. Oberyn did it. He won that fight. If the fight had stopped then and there. Dario, Barristan, maybe Bronn could. Bryanne could.
Seeing how Brienne did against an extremely famished, infected, weakened, disadvantaged Hound, and how she almost died to like six Bolton men saving Sansa and Theon, she'd get destroyed by The Mountain.
@@Edmures_rampant_manhood He is older and smaller, but not too old and not too small. Greatjon is 7ft even and has the strength of eight men. The Mountain is 8ft even and has the strength of ten men. That is a great physical disparity, but nothing that cannot be circumvented with skill when it comes to bladed weaponry. And the Greatjon, unlike The Mountain, is a highly skilled fighter with a ton of cunning. The Mountain isn't unskilled and he isn't stupid, but the Greatjon is legit a supreme fighter. Jaime himself recognizes him as one of the few men who could potentially beat him, and Jaime was known to be the greatest swordsman of his time, only knowing equals in Barristan and Arthur Dayne throughout time.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I don't remember the Greatjon ever being described as a supremely skilled fighter. I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I've read the books or watched the early seasons of the show. I think people tend to almost discount size and strength because it looks cooler if a smaller person beats a bigger person. I've seen a lot of fights in my life (not with swords lol) and despite Hollywood notions, brute strength usually wins.
"Wisdom".....Ser Baristan walking around an occupied city being plagued with Harpees without his armor in the show was absurdly stupid and a terrible way to kill him off.
We're only poking a bit of fun. His show depiction left me and Thom with a bit of a bitter taste after all the simping. He's definitely not someone to mess with, beating Daemon in single combat is an acolayde many would love to claim and we think Daemon would smoke the Mountain. Thanks for watching guys! Liam
@@TheStraightestWhitest I think most people who have read the books do (Including us at the Fandome) it's his show depiction that gets a little more bi polar of a reaction. One side of him is this skilled and by westerosi standards honourable knight who is so far the only guy to beat everyone's favourite character Daemon. On the other he's a whiny petty bitch who can't get over that he wasn't the rightful queens choice. We just stuck him in at the end to poke a bit of fun and bait out that maybe we hadn't listened for a third time at everyone saying Barristan.
You guys have really deepened my appreciation of Barristan (sp?). I have read the books in addition to watching the show, and for whatever reason, I really overlooked him.
i think syrio forell WOULD have a shot, not a guarantee but a decent chance (above 60%) he has the agility and is nimble enough to avoid getting hit and skilled enough (and again, nimble and quick enough) to take advantage of the gaps in the mountains armor, it will very much be a "death by a hundred cuts" situation but it is doable, especially because the mountain has shown in his trial by combat that he is fairly easy to provoke into reckless attacks and yes tacking advantage of those gaps isnt as easy as people think but its also not as hard as people think, especially with techniques such as half swording and from syrio's fights we can deduce that his biggest strength isnt even is speed or agility but his ability to read his oponents because frankly that is the only way you can beat severall armed oponents with a wooden weapon
Syrio was chosen to train Arya because she favored a sword like Needle, and that's not a sword you'd half sword with. In theory, I see your argument but I've also seen sabers and rapiers break mid combat (and had one broken on me). All it would take is a bad thrust that misses as joint and hits a plate or to have Gregor pinch the blade between the plates it stuck in and suddenly Syrio is disarmed
@@lilithhawke1028 i doubt "you dont do that with that kind of sword" is an argument in a life or death situation, you can half sword with a damn butter knife if your life depends on it. and while the benefits are smaller then with an armingsword or even a long sword they are still there, also i dont think syrio was chosen because of the type of weapon, i mean the practice swords HE BROUGHT didnt look like a rapier, small sword or anything like that, i imagine he was chosen because his style relies more on flexibility and agility rather then strength and seeing as arya is a little girl at the time it seems reasonable to argue that training her in a sword style that relies more on those things gives better results then a style who relies more on strength, if it was purely because of the type of weapon syrio wouldve brought practice swords that reflect either the favored weapon of himself or arya, and the swords look nothing like needle and look more like arming swords meaning something like an arming sword could very well be syrio's favored weapon. also i said from the beginning i wasnt saying its a guaranteed win for syrio but he defenitly has an above fair chance to win or a get a draw
The issue is the accuracy, speed and luck needed to make such a lunge and not be beheaded or bisected as a result is insane. I also don't think half swording is a good idea when the reach difference is already as massive as it is, you want as much distance as possible between you and that sweeper of a sword Gregor uses. There's also Gregors shield to consider, its massive and a big defence redundancy to bypass just to get a shot at the armour joints and openings. We think Syrio would make Gregor look very silly, been danced around and unable to land a blow on our favourite Bravossii, but we just don't think Syrio (with his standard arms) has got anything fight ending of his own. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts guys! Liam
What won the fight for the Viper was him dodging the Mountains attacks until he was tired and opened his back.. I think syrio would beat him for the same reason.
@@incitatus953 its a reasonable argument, but there is a difference between 8ft of reach with a spear and 3.75 ft of rapier style sword (and thats the absolute longest a man of Syrios stature can utilise before it becomes too unwieldy) one keeps you at a safe distance to take your shots and the other forces you to come into the kill zone of a 6ft long greatsword and a giant who can bear hug your to death We all saw what happened when Oberyn got too close and that was after the Mountain had a poisoned spear broken off in his gut, he just powered straight through the pain. Without a weapon with the reach advantage, Gregor has no incentive to do any chasing ethier, Syrios got to come to him, making the cat and mouse game harder (though Syrio is a witty bastard, wouldn't put it past him to have a few good burns in the chamber to rile the mountain up) We don't put it past Syrio to land some hits, we just don't put it past Gregor to grab and crush Syrio when he tries to do something fight ending. Like we said in the vid we think Syrio can dance around the Mountain all day, we just don't think he can land that kill shot without been killed himself.
HEMA guy here, as per requested. The sword at 10:44 has the hilt of a rapier, but the blade is closer to a sidesword. (Which is a better cutter than the rapier.) And yes, stabbing into a armor joint points is not gonna happen with either swords, you will need to wrestle for that. You either need a longsword (or bigger) for that or a dagger. However. It seemed that the Mountain did not have any significant armor on the back of his legs. With a decent cutting sword, a good and quick fencer could be able to outmanuever the Mountain, get behind him and cut the tendons. Kinda like Oberyn did. But I would still bet on the Mountain.
Thank you HEMA guy!!!! 😂 Thom does our footage editing and he hasn't done any HEMA ,so he just finds footage to help the audience visualise our point, but as a novice HEMA guy myself I honestly appreciate the educated insight! As a HEMA guy yourself what would you say the odds are out of 10 that a quick-very quick and skilled fencer like Syrio can get behind a fighter like Gregor, make a disabling wounding cut or thrust, and manage to get back out of the way of the berserker frenzy swipe or grab that's likely to follow? Thanks for answering the call! Liam
@@shifterverse " Thom does our footage editing and he hasn't done any HEMA" he did a very good job in this video. "As a HEMA guy yourself what would you say the odds are out of 10..." this question is tricky to answer. during our sparring sessions, if I fence with a guy who is way better than me, out of duels I can win approximately 1, have a draw in 1-2, and he/she wins the rest. (draw = we both die.) if it were unarmored fighting, anyone could get a lucky blow and win it. since armor comes into play, it mitigates the luck factor a lot. especially if the 2 parties have very different armor sets. also, Syrio was a great fencer is Essos. where people didn't seem to wear a lot of armor, so it is safe to say he was not an expert against armored opponents. if he had some time to prepare for the duel (like a week) and a tutor, his chances would go up significantly, at least to 3 or 4 (out of 10). but if someone just came up to him and said "hi, this is the Mountain, you gonna fight him in 10 minutes", I would say Syrio would win 0 out of 10. "...make a disabling wounding cut or thrust, and manage to get back out of the way of the berserker frenzy swipe..." yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. IF the cut is good enough, there won't be a follow up from the other party, because he will collapse, simply because his remaining leg won't be able to support the weight and the sudden imbalance. I once had a bad cramp in one of my legs, and I went down like a ragdoll. and I wasn't even wearing 50 extra pounds of armor. but, if the frenzy swipe did come, I don't think it would be a problem for a guy lik Syrio, because he does unarmored fighting, where you need to "strike, retreat, repeat", so it would come automatically for him. did this answer your question?
@@szepi79 absolutely Szepi! Thank you! Its actually a neat little point in Syrios favour that its instinctual for him to retreat due to the lack of armour, now he just needs to get behind the mountain in the first place 😂
@@shifterverseone another thought why it is hard to determine a fight in GoT (besides the obvious "the writers decides who wins") : historical duels fall into 2 categories, judicial and civil. their purpose differs a lot, but the common thing in both of them is that they put "equality" in the focus. both participants must have had the same type of equipment, so it was unimagineable that one combatant has a full plate and a sword, and the other some light armor and a spear. heavy armor for both of them, or for neither of them. (of course, there were times when even this setting provided some serious advantage for one party, but what can you do) that was pretty much the only rule, everything else was for a subject of discussions. and people came up with some crazy shit. once they were duelling in hot air balloons and shooting at each other with blunderbuss. (that ended with the death of the loser AND the death of the crew of balloon, who had nothing to do with the conflict) there was another occasion where they threw biliard balls against each other. yes, that ended with death as well. once the duel method was to wrestle your opponent into a bag. people are crazy.
Oh for sure he's bloody good, thats why we said its so much closer than people might think. Out of our picks for those that we think can't, Loras is the one Greg's really going to have to work for. Thanks for watching! Liam
Qhorin Halfhand - Best of the Knight's Watch who lost some fingers on his right hand, but trained with his left hand and became an even better swordsman than with his right. Jeor and Jorah Mormont - Both strong fighters, Jeor being strong as a bear even in advanced age. Has a short-hafted battle axe, and Longclaw, a Valerian steel bastard sword. Jorah has fought and won in Westeros and Braavos in many battles, and even took a city with just him, Barristan Selmy, Belwas, and 20 men (in the books). In the show, he fights and wins in the pits. Books only - Strong Belwas had never lost a fight. From slave to pit fighter, he is someone Barristan Selmy could rely on in battle.
Issue we have with Belwas Aaron is his code of conduct. He's got an obsession with letting his opponents cut him once before he takes them down. One cut from the Mountain would likely leave Belwas bisected 😂😂 if he's willing to throw that tradition out of the window, wear some armour and pick a longer weapon, I certainly wouldn't put it past Belwas the beast to mess Gregor up! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@aaronforsythe8556 That is a good point. Like Gregor himself, Belwas is quicker than a man his size ought to be. Other issue is how he deals with The Mountains armour. He'll need to be given a can opener of a weapon.
@@aaronforsythe8556 Yeah, not many swords are good vs Armour to be honest. Greatswords can be effective if you can put the force and weight of the weapon in the right place like the opponents head. Longswords with a relatively thin point can also get the job done if you can get it into armour joints, eye slits or armpits, but not an easy prospect. But swords as a whole are crap vs armour. We need to give Belwas a nice heavy axe or hammer. something with some weight to it so he can give Gregors migraines a helping hand 😂😂 If both were unarmoured though I'd give it to Belwas every time.
@@marksheen4873 might be a couple of weeks pal, we're still extremely late on the Tyrell vid that we promised after the Stannis one 😂 but its on the list, pretty neat idea to be honest!
Gregor was highly confident in his large strength . So he thinks he can kill any one with his bare hand. So he was not afraid of any fighters he saw. But in the case of Greajon Umber he see a man same as his size. So his confidence gone a little. But he was ready to fight. But if he saw Wunwun the famous mountain will pee in his pants and fearly said that now I see the real mountain.
Pretty much! Gregs got some skills beyond just his strength, but it's his size that pushes him from a decent fighter into a top tier one. Without that advantage, he's just a slightly above average fighter! Thanks for watching! Liam
There are those that think he's some brilliant warrior because of that shirtless fight in the show. We don't think he's all that which is why we think he's deadmeat. Thanks for watching James! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Thank you 🙏 I appreciate your reply. I admit that I haven’t read the literature but i have been listening to the audiobooks to try and catch up incase George ever decides to write the next book. I’m almost fished with clash and it’s so awesome to a resource with videos like yours that help explain and point out things you might have missed. It makes the experience of reading or listening much better
@@JamesWilliams-dz5tn the tragic thing about the audio books. Roy Doltrice the narrator has sadly passed away so if GRRM ever does make another book, they'll need a new Narrator! Hope youre enjoying them! im currently relistening to- Thom
@@TheFandomeClips I honestly don’t know how their going to fill his shoes. He left his own imprint on the story with his tone, inflection and timing. RIP
I've only got experience in HEMA as a spectator, but have been doing padded weapons fighting for over a decade, and boy can I tell you it's hard going up against someone who's a head taller than you if you also employ similar tactics (re: your assessment of Brienne vs the Mountain). It takes a lot of speed to be able to negate the reach advantage. If the opponent is particularly timid, this can be achieved more easily, as they'll be more likely to let you engage and disengage, being afraid to follow as you do. But if you have a taller, stronger opponent who also has some aggression, you'll very quickly get swarmed when they push on, and then it'll be hell to get outside of that longer reach again.
Absolutely. Reach is such an advantage. Look at Oberyn, one of the greatest fighters alive at the time. He didn't even chance it and took 8ft of reach to ensure he had that advantage!
Criston cole should be able to beat him although with some difficulty. We haven’t seen yet him but Cregan stark may be able to given how well he did against Aemon the dragon knight
@@TheFandomeClips No need Thom I can read minds, ready? "If Syrio knew Jujitsu he would have beaten Gregor, If Greyworm knew Ju-jitsu he would have won, if Loras knew Jujitsu he would have won, if Tormond knew Jujitsu he would have won, if Ramsey knew Ju-jitsu he would have won" 😂😂😂😂😂
Not a particularly serious suggestion but given adequate range - Anguy, the archer from the Brotherhood Without Banners. He's basically the finest archer in the series and unlike the Dothraki or Ygritte uses a full longbow. Now the armour-piercing capabilities of medieval longbows are ... debated, but given his demonstrated skills I think he has a chance of sniping the mountain before he gets close - provided he's given room to manoeuvre.
In a battlefield scenario I 100 percent agree with you, dude could have given legolas a run for his money 😂 he'd plant a few right in Gregors neck and one in the visor for good measure. Then Berric would look at him bewildered and say "that still only counts as one!" 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Of note regarding Grey Worm and the unsullied. If castrated before puberty a male will often grow far larger than they otherwise would. The increased testosterone and estrogen of puberty moderates several growth hormones and is what causes the growth plates in your bones to fuse (for women, estrogen and progesterone do this). If you are castrated before puberty these will take longer to fuse closed (meaning you keep growing for longer than you otherwise would) and you'll end up taller. Many court eunuchs in Chinese history are recorded as being over 7 feet tall and physically imposing. In the show Grey Worm (and the rest of the Unsullied) are small and not very physically imposing, but are depicted as muscular. In reality they would have been large and roundish with less defined muscle despite exercising every day. Ideal for Phalanx troops, difficult for regular people to take down, but unlikely to present a challenge one on one with any of the top swordsmen of the day.
I would rank a swordmaster with speed and a rapier waaaay higher. Not against a good opponent (because of armor and reach of a greatsword), but a middling but physically strong opponent against a swordmaster who knows the type of enemy and can prepare.. A rapier can thrust and thus go into weakpoints the same way, a spear can. First tire your enemy, then wound him, then wait until he collapses and attack the neck.
You've got tire him and get that wound in first though and that's the trouble with a rapier. It's reach doesn't exceed the reach of a 6ft greatsword like a spear does. There is absolutely no incentive for Greg to do any chasing as he has the reach advantage, Syrio is the one whose got to do the gap closing and spend energy. It would take some serious, serious provoking to get Greg moving which I can admit is not impossible, he's got a temper and Syrio is one beautifully witty bastard. But The Mountain isn't an idiot, that's a misapprehension due to his show actors been strongmen with no sword training. He's actually pretty skilled (just not top tier) and has good fighting instincts. There's a reason he's who Jaime waxes lyrical about the best swordsmen in Westeros taking on in the books. He's quite literally a swordsman's worst nightmare to fight. Not saying your thoughts are wrong BTW, and not saying Syrio can't do it, it's just not favourable for him. Even sword masters often (not always but often) beat heavily armoured opponents by been armoured themselves and wrestling their opponent to the ground where they can wedge either their sword or a handy dagger into joints and pry them open or stick their blade in the less armoured (but still armoured with Mail and Gambeson) spots. Thanks for watching and giving your thoughts Tom! Liam
that clip of a longsword denting plate armor is a weapon smashing armor made of aluminum. a steel chest plate can shrug off mace strikes a sword has no shot at denting it.
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
Who should we tackle next?
Jamie? Barristan? A different franchise?
Totally non biased suggestion, but I'd been keen to know who could defeat palpatine from star wars........... or you know, just someone that isn't thrones related.............. thrones, thrones........ ..everytime I look at our script folder...........THRONES 🥴 😂
Dayne is a good one though pal, though a hard mode challege, him and a young Selmy are basically untouchable
Mance Rayder
You still forgot a few combatants:
Areo Hotah, Strong Belwas, Mind-controlled Hodor, Victarion Greyjoy, Lyn Corbray and of course Ser Robert Strong (wish we‘d know where that guy suddenly came from)
Little John from Robin hood. I think he takes the mountain down.
Have you done book brianne? its one of my favorites
Bariston did kill Maelys the Monstrous. And the pretender to the throne was supposed to be massive and exceptionally strong. From the pictures he might be a little bigger than the Mountain. Which means if Bariston did it as a young man with little experience, then I am sure as an experienced warrior who has barely lost a step he would be able to do it.
Great comparison. Maelys tore his cousins head off with his bare hands 😂
Would love to see that story in live action!
True, but Barristan is also an old man, well past the prime of his physical peak, slower, weaker and with less stamina.
Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a beast of a swordsman, an absolute legend. Just nerfed by age. So it would be interesting.
But being young men, gives you some advantages and i thought this all happened after he had rescued the mad king solo, from a fully manned castle ?
He wasn’t bigger than the mountain. No one was bigger than the mountain
might be a bit old in the books but yeah Bariston is absolutely top tier. The stuff he did is borderline phantastical
Janos Slynt's friends in the capital can defeat the Mountain
And we have a winner for our next joke suggestion in the inevitable future vid 😂😂 Thanks for watching Krom! Liam
They are *POWERFUL FRIENDS!*
@@biraptor6205 and THEY WILL HEAR ABOUT THIS!!! 😂
@@shifterversealso MARON FUCKING TRANT
😂😂😂 Too soon bro.
Bariston, in the books, could have taken on anyone, except maybe Arthur Dayne.
Even as an old man he'd dance around Gregor and end him without much effort.
Supposedly he was also a match for Dayne, so long as they had equal arms. It was Daynes sword Dawn that gave him the slight edge according to GRRM. Thanks for watching Itamar! Liam
yep, he was completly overpowered and even as an old man he prob is the best fighter.
@@shifterverseDawn was made from a meteorite too
Maybe. In a fight without 1 mistake or surprise.
@@dirkdiggler5581in every duel one mistake kills you even if its fuckin peasant against you
One thing I always found funny, was Ned assigning poor lord Barric the impossible task of killing the mountain like it ain’t no thing. For all the acts of bravery and sacrifice in the series, Barric deserves credit for taking on that suicide mission without complaint.
I think Ned had faith in Berrics command abilities and likely expected him to lead Gregor into a trap/killzone or overwhelm him with sheer numbers. Otherwise yeah, if I were Berric I would have been cursing Neds name all the way along the kings road 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
He was not going to do it alone do.
Then the poor bastard had to fight his brother lol
A smarter Ned would have chosen Ser Loras. If Loras wins then well done, if he doesn't then he unites the Tyrells against the Lannisters.
That's why Ned sent Beric with 100 men more than enough to dispatch who is with the Mountain with a figthing chance to kill him with whats ever left.
Technically Oberyn did defeat him but got killed because he dragged it out.
He was our first ever pick in our first vid. The Prince made a fool of the Mountain. Had he not needed that confession, that fight would have been over so much quicker! Thanks for watching! Liam
And it wasn't even close - he just let his anger get the better of him. I think that's the blueprint - fast and agile highly skilled fighters - I think Arya could do it!
he actually whooped mountains ass.. not even on same level as the viper lol ...
I mean technically in a fight to the death it ain't over until someone is dead so he didn't beat him on any technical level
Ser Author Dayne would easily beat the mountain imo 💯😤
I completely agree with the assessment of Ramsay. His greatest asset is being able to catch his enemies off guard with Shock and Awe tactics. In the show, he fought the Ironborn without a shirt and covered in scratches with a grin on his face, an intimidating sight for raiders who know that they are out of their element infiltrating a castle. However, these tactics would amount to jack squat against the Mountain.
It would be like the Battle of Yonkers in World War Z. Trying to use Shock and Awe tactics against someone who cannot be Shocked and Awed would let the Mountain Shock and Awe Ramsay when he stomps the little twit.
Thanks Bloodraven! We enjoy discourse and friendly disagreement, but we also appreciate it when someone says "yeah you guys go that one right" 😂 Yeah that's Ramsey's main advantage, fear and a favourable premeditated setup. Don't get me wrong I think he would take the best weapons for can opening, like a hammer, mace or anti armour pole arm and I'm sure he'd cover himself head to toe in his creepy flayed man plate armour, but against a fellow psychopath/sociopath (well some form of anti social personality disorder anyway) his fear tactics are going to be met with indifference and we just don't think he has the fighting skill to carry the day. Getting past 6ft of sharp heavy steel, then a thick oaken shield to try and clonk Gregor on the head requires some serious agility, reflex and most importantly of all patience. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
Thankyou for reminding me about WWZ. Time to reread it again for the 5th
Mountain would be Ramsay's worst nightmare, 0 fear and 0 reason to be afraid.
@@sameveland8560 absolutely, there's strong evidence to suggest Gregor is potenially a clinical pyscopath, if that is the case he'll actually be incapable of having anything resembling a typical fear response, he'd look at Ramseys creepy flayed man armour and see nothing but a suit of armour
In the books Roose Bolton says Ramsay swings a sword the way a butcher chops meat… meaning Ramsay can’t fight for shit 😂
I think Greatjon umber is honestly such a beautiful and good inclusion on this list. He’s basically an upgraded mountain. Roughly same size, maybe even stronger, with tons more experience. The sight of him dominating the mountain makes me happy
As it does us 😂 Thanks for watching Brigo!
Yeah I want to see Greatjon Umber against the Mountain now. That fight never even occurred to me, but it would be a perfect and amazing match. Both men are giant beasts who can kill normal men with a single blow, so seeing them fight an opponent that is as massive as they are would be fun.
Now throw in prime Robert Baratheon and you’d get a fight between giants that would probably shatter Westeros.
I dunno; Sure he's fought other warriors rather than...baby killing and Greatjon is surely smarter but Gregor is stronger.
@@jeffreygao3956pure strength doesnt really matter that much.
In an armed fight, it doesnt matter how much you can benchpress or deadlift.
@@ilsgrade8357 The Mountain's also better armored and has a tough shield that can slam enemies in the face.
There is only one armour that survives contact with The Mountain: Plot armour.
I heard it was pretty popular armour in the show! :p - thom
So Jon would do fine against the Mountain
@@DerekiveryYeah Benjen would save him last second.
@@Derekivery i reckon even sansa would best him in 1v1, afterall holywood has to display "women power" probably beat him in arm wrestling aswell 😂
(Sigh) So much emphasis put on height/strength. Any skilled fighter with the right amount of speed and stamina could take out Gregor. The brute was wearing out after a few missed strikes.
I did like how Bronn was humble enough in the show to question if he would be able to fight the mountain.
No one with even a modicum of intelligence would consider that fight without extreme caution, even Bronn the Badass 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
In a white room, I think the Mountain feeds him his balls.
With things he can squirrel around, maybe.
He flat out refused because he didnt want to take the chance...
Never expected you to do another one of these, but I'm happy that you did 😊
To many comments we had to answer. Especially Selmy! 😂😂
Thanks Jeremy comments like this motivate us to keep trying to squeeze blood from this stone until our hands bleed because we dare not try anything new or orginal😂 but in seriousness comments like this make our day! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverseNo problem. Happy to do so 😊
I think The Blackfish in his prime could beat the Mountain. Even Jamie had a lot of respect for him as one of the best fighters in the seven kingdoms.
Was it as a fighter he respected him? Or as a commander? I can't remember its been a while since I read the books.
Won't disagree though, when you can bring fear and respect with a dumb sounding name like blackfish, the person behind that name must be pretty fierce.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverseI believe the Blackfish is described as a legendary swordsman in the books. If I remember when Jaime heard of his death he expresses his respect for him.
Jamie looked up to the blackfish as a teenager because He was a cool wayward guy who could mix in with great warriors but was suarve and coarse on top of it opposed to Barristan who squired him being the straighty 180 party police type of guy that no one wants to be around.
Blackfish was like the swearing whoring uncle that all the kids think are pretty cool and their parents told them to steer clear of.
He was Bobby b in fish clad armour
And Tully's unlike the show are described as big brawny coarse men who have jagged voices and big thick robust chins n shit, to Jamie being a little poncy lannister would've thought that was cool as hell and the blackfish prob gave him a wink and poked fun at Tywin infront of him when he was a kid I bet lol, like Aemond towards Daemon he just loves the rebel
@@choke9270dawg you know you’re completely waffling, the blackfish isn’t even dead in the books
I completely agree about Ser Barristan. Even when he old man, dismissed by Joffrey and humiliated, draws his sword before the throne, some of the king's guards stand between him and the throne. But even the Hound feels compelled to at least reach for his sword, knowing that the guards would be no obstacle to Ser Barristan
Loras did defeat The Mountain at the tourney, however, showing guile by using a mare who was in heat to...ah...distract The Mountain's charger. Point is, Loras showed a mind to exploit one of The Mountain's weaknesses, not just going head-to-head with The Mountain's advantages.
For sure Jerry 👍 its an extremely close run thing, out of all our picks, Loras is the one that would make The Mountain really work for it, and thats without assuming Loras will do something crafty. Thanks for watching! Liam
The horse was comprised though
Loras won in a joust. That's a different skill set from a melee fight to the death. Loras doesn't stand a chance.
Loras then IMMEDIATELY was destroyed by the Mountain and would have died if not for The Hound.
@@mattdouglas1050 What makes the Mountain really hard to beat is the amount of physical damage he can take and then recover in an instant to deliver a killing blow next moment just shocks people
The guy fell of the horse that was in full speed wearing a really heavy full Armour just got up and killed the horse with one blow, a man that big would have suffered serious spinal injuries irl
Same happened at Battle of Green Fork when his horse tripped and fell before the Northerners Spear Wall, Tyrion thought the Mountain is down and may be out, but he just got up unscracthed from beneath the horse and fought the entire battle
What makes the Mountain really hard to beat is the amount of physical damage he can take and then recover in an instant to deliver a killing blow next moment just shocks people
The guy fell of the horse that was in full speed wearing a really heavy full Armour just got up and killed the horse with one blow, a man that big would have suffered serious spinal injuries irl
Same happened at Battle of Green Fork when his horse tripped and fell before the Northerners Spear Wall, Tyrion thought the Mountain is down and may be out, but he just got up unscracthed from beneath the horse and fought the entire battle
Very true Amardeep! It's not landing a blow that's hard, its getting out of the way of Gregor when he powers through the pain to swipe at you or grab you. Our sweet Prince learned that the hard way.Thanks for watching! Liam
Also his insane reach (wields a Greatsword with one hand), his armor is so thick that it has to be custom made for him, I forget if Bronn says "he's surprisingly quick for a man of that size" in the books like he did in the show, but if so there's that too lol
@@GoodMorningBeautiful4 books pile it on even further Krogan by actually having stated that Gregor has good warrior instincts ( basically good fight IQ) and is actually somewhat skilled in all things knighty
As Bronn said, it's possible but he's shockingly quick for a big fellow
It's called "Plot Armor". You'd be amazed at how good it is. Barney Fife could put it on and solo the Mountain with one hand and a leg tied behind his back.
Bron's surprise weapon: anti-dragon crossbow
Exactly! This guy gets it! Thanks for watching Baoxidaoyu!
I'd argue Syrio would be able to get the mountain.
He has the dance to avoid the attacks, even at close range, and the accuracy to hit those elusive gaps. If he dances well, he can cut cut cut cut without being hit until the mountain dies.
We think his main issue is getting the mountain to a point where he's tired enough to fall down. Without the reach advantage (and thus a way of incentivising Gregor to close the gap and do the chasing) Syrio will have to do an awful lot of work moving in and out of the Mountains reach, while Gregor can kind of just stand there and wait for Syrio to engage (something he couldn't do with Oberyn who had the reach advantage)
There's also the mountains sheer endurance and will power to kill even when wounded (and fatally poisoned) to consider, if Syrio lunges and lands a thrust into a gap, he's also got to get back out of the way of the very likely retaliatory swipe or potential grab coming his way.
On a skill level though we totally agree, Syrio trounces Gregor, he'd dance around him like he wasn't even there. We're just skeptical of his ability to finish Gregor off without also himself getting Oberyned 😂
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts we appreciate it! Liam
@@shifterverse your arguments are fair against Syrio, but... You are kind of only paying attention to Syrio's weaknesses and playing the mountain as a monolith of swordsmanship. Gregor COULD stand there taking the hits and not exhaust him (although I don't think you understand how blood loss works, he'd get anemic after enough time passes and simply faint out, Syrio is the one character who could do the dance continually without failing, like... That's his whole thing) but it's unlikely that this temperamental guy who's known for lashing out at small stuff and go on rampages will keep his chill. As the combat moves forward, Gregor would become more and more reckless, giving Syrio more openings to hurt him.
@@leirumf5476 I don't personally think that Gregor is an amazing swordsman, though I do think people underestimate him as a big dumb brute, when the reality is he's a fully trained knight who's kind of supposed to be a subversion of the trope and a more realistic depiction of it.
Though needless to say skill wise, Syrio has him licked. The issue I have with your argument (though I'll admit it's pretty well reasoned) is Syrio getting those wounds in. There's the plate, then the mail, then the gambeson (all much thicker than your average knights) to get through and before you even go for that wound you've got 6ft of great sword to get past and a massive oaken shield covering nearly one half of his body (at least with the book version and if the artwork is to be believed)
Syrios most viable targets will be the back of the knees and the armpits (The least armoured areas) I reckon and I think where we might disagree is on whether or not Syrios fast enough to get at those spots without getting hit in return. The Mountain is said to be quicker than a man his size ought to be and while I know Syrio will point blank have greater agility I'm personally not sure if the gap is big enough for Syrio to prevent himself getting caught or maybe even grabbed, not when he goes for the poke, but when he goes to retreat.
I will however concede to you that IF Syrio is fast enough, calm enough and sassy enough to frustrate Gregor into letting him have those openings. He could take it with a death by a thousand cuts strategy. Its that sword of Gregors that worries me the most. Rapiers can parry heavy swords contrary to popular belief, but they can also just as easily warp and break if hit hard enough many times in the right place. Though I doubt Syrio would be dumb enough to even contemplate crossing blades, likely just keeping distance and relying on evasion as his defence 😂
@@shifterverse The reasoning behind why Syrio could do the thousand cuts is similar to why Oberyn could land the one hit. While he relied on the reach of his weapon to land the hit safely, Syrio would be more than capable of crossing the gap and getting back to safety.
Lets not forget that the one time we read of him fighting he was capable of both securing an escape for Arya while fighting a handful of men with a wooden sparring sword. So he definitely knows how to not get hit by swords while inflicting damage on opponents WHILE avoiding his sword from breaking WHILE keeping and securing enough ground.
@@leirumf5476 Yeah not going to lie, absolute badass moment for him. If your going to be shown fighting once, that's how you want to be depicted 😂
Oberyn, obviously. In any fight in which he was aiming simply to win.
Too true, he was our first pick in our first vid! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@Genarii he was mentioned on The first part
I am surprised the Hound isn’t on this list. Win or lose I would love to see Clegane Bowl II.
The Hound was honoured enough to be in our first vid Moviegeek, you can find it here on the channel if your interested. He's one of the absolute safest bets you could possibly make on beating then monster. Thanks for watching! Liam
He did beat the mountain…
The mountain is kinda slow
Disregarding the Age of Heroes, where (if the legends are to be taken at face value) most people would absolutely wreck the best of the modern day, I can nominate 23 worthy opponents for the Mountain in recent history:
- Ser Arthur Dayne, "the Sword of the Morning"
- Ser Barristan Selmy, "the Bold"
- Ser Jaime Lannister, "the Kingslayer"
- Prince Oberyn Martell, "the Red Viper"
- King Robert I Baratheon, "the Demon of the Trident"
- Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, "the Last Dragon"
- The Smiling Knight
- Captain-General Maelys I Blackfyre, "the Monstruous"
- Lord Yohn Royce, "the Bronze Knight"
- Brienne of Tarth, "the Sapphire Knight"
- Sandor Clegane, "the Hound"
- Ser Garlan Tyrell, "the Gallant"
- Ser Loras Tyrell, "the Knight of Flowers"
- Prince Daemon I Blackfyre, "the Black Dragon"
- King Aegon I Targaryen, "the Conqueror"
- King Maegor I Targaryen, "the Cruel"
- Ser Gerold Hightower, "the White Bull"
- Ser Gerold Dayne, "the Darkstar"
- Captain Areo Hotah, "the Holy Guard"
- Ser Brynden Tully, "the Blackfish"
- Prince Aemon Targaryen, “the Dragonknight”
- Lord Cregan Stark, “the Wolf of Winterfell”
- Sandoq, "the Shadow"
Disregarding armor as a factor, also these three:
- Syrio Forel, the First Sword of Braavos
- Khal Drogo, "the Great Khal"
- "Strong" Belwas
I just discovered this channel last night and I am HOOKED! I’ve no clue if you guys have done anything on the show Spartacus and their gladiators and warriors, but I will check. Would be fun, if not. You guys do great assessments and I’d love to see their weapons, advantages, disadvantages explained with the humor of this channel. That show was so fun to me.
Robert Baratheon in his prime is the deadliest Warrior in the Seven Kingdoms. He uses a Big Warhammer. He's Fast and Strong. He could make a short work of Both Hound and the Mountain. There's a reason why he's called the DEMON. Arthur Dayne and Barristan were best swordsman. Robert was a Skilled warrior and a Brilliant battle commander.
Which is why he was our number 1 pick in P1 😂 Bobby B would finish the mountain quickest of the lot, one clonk of that hammer and its night night gregor 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Ppl also forget that Warhammers are made for beating ppl in plate armor.. if you have a sword you are not getting thru plate armor, only at the neck and under the arm, which would be extremely hard against a great warrior such as Robert. His wounds from Rhaegar always puzzled me. Where were they? How did it happen??
@@coldhands2802 There are ways of utilising a sword vs plate, I think there is a move in one of the old manuels called "the murder stroke" where you essentially turn your sword around and use the crossguard like a hammer which i suppose backs up your point 😂 other than that you are correct though, its ethier thursting into the gaps or getting the point in a joint and hoping you can pry it open somehow. Greatswords can also be effective providing its reasonably heavy and used more like a club and the raw concussive force can transfer through the layers.
I too wonder where Bobby was wounded. Maybe his arm pit? One final defiant thrust from the dragon before having his chest caved in?
@@coldhands2802 Fantasy generally over-uses swords, no matter how 'realistic' the setting - they were pretty uncommon in actual combat by the era of what amounts to GoT's tech level. That being said, a sword is still basically a long slap of iron. And if it's the Mountain swinging that iron-stick you're not just getting away with a concussion or a broken rib - a straight hit and you're wrecked, armor or not
@@minnumseerrund Very ture! Most fantasy touts them as a primary weapon for a knight when in reality they are the equivalent of a pistol/sidearm. Handy if you've got nothing else to hand or in civilian circumstances, but not quite as battlefield capable as a polearm.
A rapier is actually a bit better than some longswords against an armored opponent, it's much easier to find the gaps in the helmet with a smaller point. Also, remember that no swords are meant for fighting against any armor. Even linen gambesons can stop the best swords.
Well said, swords aren't really optimal anti armour weapons in general with the Estoc/Tuck been a rare exception. Some manuals show the best way to leverage a long sword against armour is to turn it around and use it like a hammer, the move is called the "murder stroke" which is pretty badass 😂 Rapiers didn't really see much use vs armour and were certainly not intended for armour like some people state, they were designed with civilian duelling in mind, their original name Espada Ropera literally translates to Robe/Dress Sword. The point about gaps is valid as a fine thrust point is going to fit in smaller gaps, but yeah even if Syrio gets into a gap he's then got to get through mail and gambeson. Moral of the story, don't take a sword against armour unless you have no choice. Give me a nice hammer or polearm any day! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverse at best Rapiers can handle a chainmail shirt.
@@davidlewis5312 Very true, against plate, its practically useless. The gaps are your only hope and good luck getting to them if your opponent is even reasonably competent 😂
I hear that blunt weapons aren't that great against plate unless you get your opponent in the head. Anything else is unlikely to do serious damage. Pretty good for cavalry as you can crunch down on infantry. Swords are still reasonable if you can find a gap whilst stabbing. They are however more likely to get stuck than a blunt weapon. A polearm that can pierce or chop would be nice, with a pointy dagger for close work.
The problem is that the knight knows you are going to try and stab him in the face, so he's just going to bat the rapier away and then stab you. You would need a thicker sword you use wrestle with the knight and then shove the point through his visor.
Fghts with armor are more like MMA matches than fencing matches. You need to grapple your opponent. Which is why in real life, the only characters who could beat the mountain would be people who were almost as strong as him. You don't need to be as freakish huge, but for instance Jamie Lannister would have to be jacked. Knights were all big dudes, they were basically the nfl players of their day.
I would pay dirty money to see The Greatjon VS The Mountain
Water dancing sword could be an estoc/tuck. It's an edgeless sword that's made purely for thrusting, and was quite good at getting into the gaps of plate armor.
We see a water dancer in the pits of Mereen, most definitely a rapier inspired sword he uses :p a few people have suggested the Estoc/Tuck, its a good shout and certainly doesn't hurt Syrios chances but that sword was designed with the user also been armoured in mind. It takes dedicated effort to drive even a thrust centric sword through a gap in plate armour (there's still the mail and gambeson to get through and to make it worse Gregors will be much thicker than your average knights) our doubt isn't Syrio landing his shot, its him successfully retreating when the retaliation arrives, 6ft of greatsword is quite a big kill zone and we know gregor is much quicker than he looks. Thanks for watching! Liam
That's literally false.
The rapier is terrible against plate.
🙄
Lol at the fact wun wun would just grab the slight hill and kill him.
Aha yeah. Gotta give props to Liam on that play on words 😂 - Thom
i love that sneaky dig at people who have only watched the show. “GUH GUH GUH” 😂
I love that moment 😂😂
Mance Rayder(book version as he doesn't get burnt alive and then absolutely destroys Jon in a fight whilst disguised as rattleshirt)
Good suggestion on the skill front! I'm a little worried about his lack of armour though, one mistake and Mance is going to be in two halves lol. I can't remember how quick he is in the books? You need some pretty good speed and agility if your going against the beast without substantial armour. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
Beating a 15 year old with no real battle experience is not the best feat ever, but if i am not wrong, he killed every person who challenged him for the position of king beyond the wall which is pretty impressive
Mance isnt much of a fighter as is Jon. Show Jon was portrait as a very strong fighter but when you look at book Jon he is surely castle trained and has some experience but nothing special.
@@Seelenverheizer id have to agree, its why we put Jon down as a can't in p2. Jon is good, maybe even mildly talented but nothing exceptional by a long stretch
I’m pondering why these characters were not included as possibilities to defeat the Mountain.
1) Strong Bella’s comes to mind - strictly book character I know. Champion of the Pits. Massive. Very quick and used to destroying all types of warriors.
2) Areo Hotah. Extremely skilled, especially with a battle axe. Massive. As big as if not bigger than the Mountain. Extremely fast. I can see him sparring with Oberon and winning.
3) Young Robert Baratheon. Big. Extremely skilled. Wears full plate. That hammer caved Rhaegars plate.
Most of these are either in Part 1 or 2 😂
@@TheFandomeClips yeah, spoke too soon. The only one I cannot find is Hotah.
I find it weird whenever people do Gregor Clegane vs X videos, they completely forget he's an expert fighter. Even from the start of the duel he immediately moves to put the sun behind his back and blind Oberyn, and he's been in all kinds of battles across Westeros; pitched battles, skirmishes, duels, melees, ambushes and more. The only reason Oberyn beats him is that he's using multiple specialised spears that have all been poisoned with an incredibly potent venom that takes effect almost immediately, he's using bronze scaled armor polished to a gleam so even if the sun shines on him it can reflect back at the mountain, and he was an expert warrior who'd spent pretty much his entire adult life preparing for that singular fight and planning it out.
As soon as you said, "But we know that blue harid rogues got that dawg in him" I knew this was the vid for me.
We have many more on our channel! 😂 - Thom
Thanks Patrick, we aim to please, doesn't always work out like that, but still thats our aim 😂😂
I think Robert Baratheon in his prime could
He was our number 1 pick in our first vid. One clonk of that hammer and the Mountain would be given a forever nap. Thanks for watching squeaky! Liam
@@shifterverseIt'd take more than one hit from Robert to take down the mountain. Even if it's Robert from the books. The mountain in his armour is on another level of durability. Rhaegar was only 5'11 and much smaller than Robert which played a big role in him beating him. I'd say Robert's fighting style was also not apt to go against the mountain who could easily beat him at his own game by using his own immense size and strength to win. Still I think if Robert could disarm the mountain he might be able to get in a few good hits in gregors weak spots. Maybe land a haymaker on his arm to break some bones. I think Robert would win if he fought accordingly but it certainly won't be easy.
@@KingSlayer_.Robert was also one of the strongest men alive in his time which with a Warhammer would actually make short work of Gregor's armor since Warhammers are specifically designed for fighting plate armored opponents
Robert might have been a fool as a king. But he was a legendary warrior, one of the greatest to ever grace a battlefield in the GoT universe. Not only did he possess monstrous strenght, but his skill with the warhammer was unmatched. He did not rely on his strenght alone, his skill was formidable. He was fearless, but not careless. I strongly believe that Robert could've obliterated the Mountain, since his warhammer is designed to fight plate armored enemies, which would've played into his hands a lot.
Gods he was strong then
Ramsay also isn't very bright in commanding who loose's arrows into their own men like that during battle? That's a great way for them to turn on you. Plus he had no one scouting to see the army of the vale ready to flank him when he wasn't paying attention. With Syrio there is a thing as a war rapier.
Even a broad bladed rapier presents the same challenges for Syrio vs Gregors plate. Rapiers in general just aren't made with facing armour in mind. The speed and accuracy required in the lunge to get it into a gap is absolutely insane, especially when those joints and openings are fighting back.
Regarding Ramsey, you make some good points, though I don't think anyone would have anticipated the Vale showing up, they didn't come down and fight for Rob or get involved in the war of the 5 kings whatsoever.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverseYou are making a mistake though. The Estoc is a Rapier specifically designed for fighting Armored Opponents and piercing armor.
Loosing Arrows into a scrum with your own men in the way has happened a few times though in History. Usually a desperate last measure though. In Fiction though, It all depends on the Culture of the Warriors. It's entirely plausible that Men that know the other ways Ramsey could have you killed wouldn't think twice about it. Would you rather be flayed or maybe take an Arrow?
I could see it as a very plausible tactic when fighting a battle with "allies" that are the "enemy of my enemy" types. If you and I both hate each other but we got a shared threat and thus are forced to work together, I don't particularly care if I hit you as long as I'm also hitting them. Cannon Fodder is a real thing.
@@justinlast2lastharder749 Which is fine, but nowhere does it say Syrio wields a rapier, let alone a specialised anti armour one. That was us been as kind as possible based on the description of water dancing swords. We actually see a water dancer in the fighting pits of Mereen and while his blade takes inspiration from the rapier, its shorter and most certainly not an Estoc.
Even if you give Syrio an Estoc, he still has the issue of reach, leverage and the fact he's unarmoured to contend with (The Estoc was designed as a battlefield weapon with the wielder also been armoured with plate in mind) . You can't agility lunge a one handed thrust oriented sword into armour gaps and then immediately retreat like you can with unarmoured fencing. It takes some dedicated commitment to get a sword through both mail and Gambeson (and that's assuming he's targeting an unarmoured spot, if he targets a joint he's also got to pry through that). Then we also can't forget everything The Mountain wears is much thicker than standard, meaning even more effort to get through.
Even an Estoc has got to be driven through to wound and that's where Syrio runs into trouble. Gregor was capable of powering through several bee sting wounds (The type Syrio would be capable of inflicting) and a spear in his gut to kill Oberyn. Our issue isn't Syrio finding his mark, its him been able to drive it through and then get back to a safe distance when the inevitable retaliation arrives.
Oberyn could do this because he had 8ft of reach with his spear (in the books) that's a 2ft reach advantage on Gregor's 6ft greatsword. Even if you give Syrio the longest possible Rapier/Estoc (before it becomes unwieldy for a man of his height at least) he's at best got about 3.75 ft of reach, putting him in the kill zone every time he wants to try to take a poke.
You can give Syrio a specialised sword, but even with that his tool kit just isn't optimal to fight what is essentially a human tank. I wanted to put him on the can list, but after consulting associates who are dedicated HEMA practitioners, they argued me into the ground on why it just isn't remotely favourable for our favourite Bravossi.
When you take away the armor a lot of people could. He's big, he would be a target on the battle field and taken down by multiple men. But also that great sword he uses.. no matter how big you are, you would eventually get tired and slow using it. The Spear is a good weapon for a reason, endurance.
Aye Travis that tank level armour definitely does a good 60-70% of work for Gregor, he can attack with near impunity with it. Take that armour away and nearly all of our can'ts would make quite short work of him! Thanks for watching! Liam
Very true. You could be the strongest man alive, but a femoral artery cut is a femoral artery cut
Anyone with a .50BMG, a Win Mag .300 or a .470 Nitro Express… but they better not miss.
But frankly, The Mountain needed to be taken down like a rabid animal. He’s too much of a liability and too violent for his own good.
The mountain is basically mongo from blazing saddles. Don’t use a gun, it’ll just make him mad.
How would these people do against the mountain
Arthur Dayne
Prince Daemon
Sir Duncan the tall
Sandqo the shadow
Victarion Greyjoy
We touched on Arthur in our first Vid, he'd take victory quite easily. When the finest swordsman ever thinks your the finest swordsman ever, you know your pretty up there as a swordsman 😂
We may get to HOTD vs the mountain at some point, everything I've seen and read of daemon so far leads me to think he would beat Gregor quite handily.
Duncan seems capable of it.
As for Victarion, we're kind of split and haven't made up our minds. Hes fierce thats for sure, but is he patient enough to outlast Gregor?
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverseVictarion is basicly just the mountain but worse so i think he would lose
@@disguisedcat1000
Nah, Victarion would just need to transform into a stump and tank the Mountain’s blows
@@warlordofbritannia 😂😂
@@shifterverseI strongly disagree about Daemon. He was getting seriously hurt fighting a few afflicted peasant guerilla fighters.
The Bronn son of & Greatjon laughing bits were absolute perfection.
Cirio was the first blade of bravos, so he surely was quite the duelist. Also there are thicc rapiers which seems much more like what they use in Bravos.
Oh we know he was quite the duelist, we see it first hand when he schools armoured knights without a proper sword.
Its his equipment that plays against him. Even a broad bladed war rapier (and that is best case scenario, they might use small swords for all we know) doesn't play amazing well against full plate armour. Combined with the reach difference between the two and Syrio is in a lot of trouble.
Thanks for watching! Liam
There were also specialized anti armor plate long swords historically
Of all the weapons to use against plate armor, rapier is one of the worst.
Bron is well aware he cant beat the mountain which played a role in his calculus for not fighting the mountain. There was not a large enough castle is Westerous to tempt Bron to try.
See we thought that, yet both Tywin and Cersei saw fit to offer him (A jumped up sellsword and little more than scum in their eyes) a wife and a castle to bribe him into not standing for his little friend. Even they thought he had enough of a chance that they thought it best to stamp out the possibility of him even trying. If they knew he knew he couldn't beat him, why go to all that trouble. Better to let Tyrion have him as champion and guarantee his loss fairly than risking someone more competent take his place (which ended up happening) Thanks for watching! Liam
If I recall correctly Bron from the book, he himself stated that while it technically might be possible with luck, even the slightest slip up would lead into his death. He said that Mountain is freakishly fast for a man his size.
So he figured, why chance it at all, since he got better offer for NOT fighting anyways
He never said he can’t. He said he won’t take the chance. He is the 1 fighter I trust the most to take down the mountain because of everyone he is completely honest about what 1 fuck results in and won’t make the mistake oberyn did by fucking around..
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: I really like that you're not making this a popularity contest. Drogo, Tormund, Syrio, Brienne, I get it, we'd all want them to win. But they just wouldn't. Tormund, Brienne and Drogo are fast and strong, but play directly to the Mountain's strengths as you said. And Syrio has the right idea, but would have the wrong execution, The man is like 5'4. The Mountain is 8ft and literally has inhuman strength. That is just unwinnable if plate armor is involved. I'm 6ft with 12 years of mixed martial arts (Judo, BJJ, Kickboxing, MMA), two of which I've done competitively, and I've also done HEMA as a hobby which I got real good at real fast likely due to my experience in combat sports as the two are more similar than most think. My absolute nightmare in each of these sports as a slender fast paced fighter are huge lumbering brutes of men who have at least 50lbs and a few inches of height on me. I can't imagine what it'd be like fighting The Mountain. It's realistically impossible. Even with a lance or halberd or spear, he could literally just waltz into it, clamp it against his plate, and then either rip it from your grasp or just pull you in closer with it. And then he can literally tear off limbs and pop your skull in seconds. Worst of all, even if you had a literal endless open field without elevation or anything else to hinder you, you'd STILL not have any reasonable chance because his sword is like 6ft too, meaning even with a polearm he's still the one with the reach advantage. So you're screwed at range, and screwed if you're close. Pure nightmare fuel. And the likes of Syrio fighting him with at best a 40 inch blade and at worst a 22 inch one would just be pure carnage for him. He's a 5'4 agile ping pong player who'd have to get in close to deal damage - against The Mountain who mainly uses his hands to end fights because he can crush normal men in seconds... Yeah.
I really love these videos. You're probably the first to actually reasonably deduct why The Mountain would win/lose against the top dogs of ASOIAF.
Glad you enjoy them! And thanks for the thoughtful reply!!
You watching UFC 293 this weekend? 😂
@@TheFandomeClips Yup, won't miss it. I don't give Strickland much of a shot. He won't outpoint Izzy, and Izzy's chin is far too solid for Strickland's casual grinder no-risk style. Strickland is what I call a comfort fighter. You need the opposite for Izzy.
I'm more looking forward to Tai VS Volkov. That's the main event for me.
Thanks Dude comments like this honestly make our day! People sleep on The Mountain and write him off as a big dumb slow brute without realising he's the subversion and realistic depiction of that very trope. He's actually well trained and has good fighting instincts to pair with his size and strength. The guy who beat him wasn't just one of the best, he was likely the greatest overall fighter alive at that point with prodigy levels of skill and intelligence, and even he was cautious as hell 😂😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverse Yeah that's why I love The Mountain as a character too. He isn't a big dumb brute. He's a big, cunning, relatively skilled, surprisingly fast brute who plays to his own strengths extremely well and has surprising fight IQ.
Brienne wouldn't win just based on how she did against The Hound who I would argue was holding back or disadvantaged.
What makes these what if fights difficult is the fact that it would only take 1 good swing from the Mountain to kill 90% of the characters throughout Asoiaf, even the best fighters could make a mistake and lose an arm to his monstrous sword.
Precisely Kryzzan! He's not a pushover at all and has to be approached with caution. Even one of the greatest warriors around at the time played it very very safe to get his win. Thanks for watching! Liam
Qyburn could, if he can bring one of his scorpions
Let’s hope his aim is on point… 😂 - Thom
Made a great point about the unsullied test. levels. I never thought about that.
Re: Syrio vs the Mountain
See: Braavosi vs Jorah in the Great Pit
Mostly armored and armed, Jorah went toe to toe against a Braavosi, and was getting his butt handed to him. The Braavosi had him on the ground and dead to rights, before taking a spear through the back.
So...... Syrio was probably better than the pit fighter. But the Mountain is actually fully armored, and his armor is a lot heavier than normal, so as far as actual combat go, I don't think Syrio could actually get through it. And even if he somehow gets his rapier through the armor, it'll be a tiny cut that probably won't do much, and the Mountain can shrug off most of those attacks, get close and end it.
That's the issue really. Syrio would certainly make Gregor look foolish, but he wouldn't be able to finish The Mountain off. Generally historically (not always but most of the time) a thin dainty blade (Usually a dagger) defeated full plate armour because one knight would wrestle the other to the ground and stab through the visor or wedge it into joints or the few parts of the body that were unarmoured like the armpits. Too big of a size gap I think for Syrio to do any wresting 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
I find it to be a rather flawed assumption that Syrio of all people is going to take a rapier into a fight against the mountain. The first sword of Braavos is chosen for their cunning and tactics as much as their sword fighting ability.
It's definitely not something you can say definitively but I find it very likely that Syrio is well versed in quite a few weapons with reach that he could have been able to utilize against the mountain and he would have come into the fight with a very similar plan of attack to the viper. I believe he would do whatever it takes to win. You don't become the first sword of braavos and have no ability to counter long swords and plate. In no way is it a sure thing, but im saying its a coin flip.
@@kcl5038 absolutely dude, we just didn't want to speculate and make assumptions, we know he's a swordsman and we know his chosen sword is some kind of rapierish weapon (Rapier is best case scenario too, could be a small sword for all we know)
All these fighters could surprise us given prep, but we have to go with what we know about them
"He was… a painter. A painter who only used red. I couldn’t imagine being able to fight like that, not back then. And to help him do that, to be part of something that… perfect… It’s like stepping into a dream you’ve been dreaming for as long as you can remember and finding out that the dream is more real than your life". I'm pretty sure Jamie would bet on sir Barristan as would I.
Absolutely Hurnn. We see the noble bastard fight when he's old, I absolutely dread what he would have been like in his youth.
it always annoyed me how wun wun wasnt given heavier armour in the battle of the bastards. he is basically a seige machine. so youd think youd add some armour to his most vulnourable areas
The Greatjon might be getting on in years, but the book Smalljon is probably a good candidate too.
I still wouldn't want to fight that crazy old bastrd 😂
@@shifterverse- yeah he laughed off a wolf biting off a couple of his fingers.
@@andrewward5891 Exactly, imagine what actually pissing that guy off looks like 😂😂
Young robert? With that warhammer?
Maybe Robert was super strong when he was young n he diff have more combat against trian fighters. If he doesn't win he give him a run for his money
He was our top pick in our first vid. One good clonk with that hammer is all it would take. He was supposedly inhumanly strong and insanely fast. He trash Gregor worse than Oberyn did in our opinion!
Thanks for watching! Liam
I agreed with most of your takes, but I'm not sold on the Greatjon. A big part of your rationale is that Gregor would be out of his element against someone just as big. But Ned Stark says that Hodor is bigger than Greatjon Umber and the Mountain makes even Hodor look like a child beside an adult.
I think there's about a foots difference in them Rusty, not so much just as big, but in the same league size and strength wise as Greatjon is also built like a brickshit house just like Gregor. I'd still favour Gregor for strength, but I don't think Greatjon is so far behind he can't keep up, and then his experience and skill kind of tip it for him. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Liam
What if tywin recognised tyrion after the battle of baywater and changed his attitude towards him?
We'll address that when we redo our "how the Lannisters could have won the GOT" vid Alan. Thanks for watching! Liam
But the short answer is just that no matter what he just wouldn’t lol
It wouldn´t matter. He still wouldn´t have a chance in a 1v1 against the mountain.
Water dancing swords sound very much like an estoc.
'The French estoc is a type of sword, also called a tuck in English, in use from the 14th to the 17th century. It is characterized by a cruciform hilt with a grip for two-handed use and a straight, edgeless, but sharply pointed blade of around 90 centimetres to 130 cm in length.'
We see a water dancer in the pits of Mereen (and this was when GRRM was consulting on the show) it was most definitely a rapier inspired sword he was using not an Estoc.
Even an Estoc has the same issues as a standard Rapier, its just more sturdy in the thrust. Its also a battlefield weapon and is designed with the user also been fully armoured in mind.
Thanks for watching! Liam
John snow with longclaw might stand a chance (he also has main character buff)
with and ONLY with the main character buff combined with his destiny as the prince who was promised does he stand a chance 😂 bit like how Anakin couldn't possibly lose to Sidious, despite on a skill level that fight been hopelessly one sided. We did address Jon in P2. Thanks for watching MrWeirdo! Liam
He is not MC, GRRM is a sick bastard and evil. Honestly, GRRM's main character was Cersei, the most evil bitch in the show. S8 ending was decided as per GRRM, thats why the bastard not releasing his book.
Using the "smash 'em" clip while talking about Garland and not wanting to confuse show only people was such a subtle diss lmao
I never understood why Robert or anyone else in Westeros feared the Dothraki. The fuck are they gonna do when they have no armor and wield Iroqs or however you spell them? Seriously. Robert's army could literally make pikes and the battle is over in minutes
I think its more their archery and mobility on an open field that Robert feared and most of all their unity. Its only in the show but that scene where he explains the difference between 5 and 1 really sells me on his mentality regarding them and his own forces.
But your right, they aren't an insurmountable threat in the slightest. Thanks for watching! Liam
Honestly any horse nation in real life smokes the Dodraki, it just shows how little the author actially knows about real horse nations.
For the same reason people feared the Mongols. They are shit for siege, but in an open battle they’re fast and unstoppable with tremendous reach and even mounted archery at their disposal, which no Westerosi culture has. They could take over bountiful villages as well and block off economic routes without even having to attack a single castle.
My guess is that the plan was never for the Dothraki to be Viserys' only army. It was jut an army that could raid towns, strike at the food supply, and thus starve people out. Which would keep the Targaryens as a legit contender for the throne. Then they hoped that other Westerosi would back the true Targaryen ruler.
Because they are literally stated to be mounted archers
So damn glad you had Greatjon in here and for a win. Dude is a freaking Boss! And the idea of a sober and pissed off Greatjon facing the Mountain or hell anyone would be DAMN scary.
And I bet the sight of him on th me battle field side by side with a young Robert was a sight to behold.
And yeah Robert has his freaking warhammer but he fights with swords too so in that sword to sword what are your thoughts on Greatjon and Robert fight? I have the Greatjon as the winner
drogon could probably beat him
What about putting comparable fighters from other fantasy and medieval media against the Mountain, like Lord of the Rings or Conan the Barbarian?
When we said "for now" that was the direction we were leaning ;) Thanks for watching! Liam
The LOTR fighters are significantly stronger than anyone in the GOT verse though. They fight off magical beings and actual giant monsters very consistently while creatures like Giants and Dragons in the GOT can easily take on dozens to hundreds of warriors at once
Good points.
GRRM did say though that Jamie Lannister was a better swordsman than Aragorn though. Definitely not a great comparison though considering how they treat things 😂 - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips Well, I dunno, Aragorn has more experience than Barristan had years of life, and IIRC, he fought and won against actual trolls, and they dwarf even The Mountain...
@@sinistertwister686 Trolls in fantasy are rarely trained warriors, same with all the creatures really. The only seemingly trained warriors in LOTR are Nazguls, Uruk Hai and Orc to an extent. Anyone from GoT would be able to adapt to a world with creatures like these. That's the great thing about most fantasy warriors, their ability to overcome these enemies despite just being human.
Robert B when he was young gods he was strong then. He would have hit him in his breast plate crushing every rib
Bobby B was our number 1 pick in our first vid on this topic. One clonk of that hammer and Gregor gets to take a forever nap 😂
"The one who disgraces the title of knight would be brought low by the one who is the paragon of it"
Assuming that The Mountain would be fighting in armor (highly likely), then one would need to be familiar with fighting armored opponents to beat him in a fight (whether in battle or a duel). This would likely eliminate the Dothrakis and Wildlings from contention.
Im no history buff my means but ive seen a few swords in my day. There are long swords and even great swords forged with tapered points which where used in a thrust and half sword style to thrust in-between armor pieces. A river sword could be no more than an average arming sword with a tapered point. Which is what you would want if you are facing down a heavily armored opponent without a polearm. Im sure there's a history buff who could add on with specifics but those thrusting swords were absolutely brutal in a shieldwall or fighting line.
We actually see a water dancer in the fighting pits of Mereen. It's most definitely a rapier inspired sword he's wielding. You are right though, the Estoc/Tuck was a long sword designed for prying into armoured gaps. Though it was designed with the user also been armoured in mind since it was a battlefield weapon. Thanks for watching! Liam
Here’s someone that would make short work of Gregor rather easily- Guts from Berserk. He’d dumpster fire the Mountain with virtually zero effort 😆.
Hell I’d pick a 12 year Guts to beat him.
Thats if Guts even saw it as worth the effort, dude fights demons from hell on a daily basis and kicks their ass 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Idea: since GRRM was involved in Elden Ring, what about Elden Ring bosses vs. the Mountain?
- Godrick: pfftt mwhahahaha
- Radahn: much bigger. wears heavy armour but pretty damn fast. has gravity magic and a massive bow that uses spears for arrows. he'd wipe the floor with the Mountain.
- Rennala: would die in 5 seconds. no armour, extremely staggerable, not enough health.
- Morgott: no armour, pretty agile and fast but likely no chance against Gregor
- Rykard: Is a giant snake with fire/lava powers. unless you give Gregor the Serpent Hunter, not even a contest.
- Fire Giant: is the fucking Fire Giant.
- Godskin Duo: no armour but there's two of them and they have ranged attacks / weapons with good reach. Gregor could probably take on one but not both at once.
- Maliketh: Gregor would get him to phase transition very fast, and then he could never land a hit again while Maliketh does his anime backflips and destined death's him into oblivion.
- Gideon: "I knew you would come... I NEED HELP!" *dead*
- Godfrey, First Elden Chad: his armour is not that great but his massive earthbending AoEs and his axe would likely stunlock Gregor.
- Radagon: no armour. can teleport and has AoEs but if Gregor ever catches him, he's dead.
- Elden Beast: is massive, keeps running away, pretty tanky, spams magic. Gregor doesn't have a chance.
- Mohg: Gregor could probably hold his own for a while... exactly until NIHIL.
- Malenia: is Malenia.
- Rick (true form): is Rick
- any dragon boss: is a dragon
- Astel: huge, teleports, has tons of ranged attacks
- Dragonic Tree Sentinel: massive armour, is on a horse that can breathe fire, has plenty of ranged attacks and a big fuckoff weapon.
- Crucible Knights: big, badass motherfuckers in heavy armour with ranged options and hard-hitting weapons.
- Commander Niall: heavy armour, ranged attacks/AoEs, long weapon, dirty cheater who summons two more knights.
I haven't played Elden Ring yet but I'm sure when we're milking every last drop of this series we'll get to video games bosses 😂 thanks for the idea and thanks for watching! Liam
the giant zombie dog things is Caelid: 🗿(seriously fuck those guys)
What about prime Ned Stark? Now, the Mountain would definitely be favored, but Ned is a warrior of quite some repute (at least enough repute to have the thought of him killing Ser Arthur Dayne plausible to the average Westerosi). Think about it, if Ser Meryn Trent claimed he defeated Ser Arthur Dayne, the average person would say, "Hell No he didn't" (the Hound doesn't believe he could beat Syrio Forrel), but Ned returns from the Tower of Joy (With Dawn) claiming to have killed Ser Arthur, and everyone accepts it. At a bare minimum, he would have a knowledgeable fighter; such as the Mountain's, full respect when facing off against him. He possesses a Valyrian greatsword (good reach and good against plate armor) and a ton of actual, battle experience fighting other, Kings guard skilled, plate-armored, opponents (like at the Tower of Joy). As I said, I would still favor the Mountain, but I think Ned would be a very "lively underdog" as the betters like to say.
We don't really know how good Ned was, he's merely speculated to be above average. However, to not die immediately to Dayne (Called the greatest swordsman ever by the greatest swordsman ever) requires some well above average skill and fighting instincts, even with back up. He also (show version only) acquitted himself against Jaime fairly decently (Though not even the most die hard Ned fan could say he had the upper hand)
He grew up with and trained with Bobby B (maybe the greatest warrior of his era) and some of that might have rubbed off on Ned and Selmy (in the show) compliments Neds skill and prowess. So it could all be humility on Neds part.
Ice does lend a certain degree of levelling the playing field, helps with reach, more manuverable than standard steel and obviously some degree of magical-ness to the blade.
I think I'd put Ned in a similar camp to Loras, I wouldn't count him out, but I wouldn't put my dragons on him 😂😂
Thanks for watching and the suggestion Guiness! Liam
@@shifterverse I agree with most of what you are saying, but as far as how good Ned was, he was a very accomplished warrior / general in Robert's rebellion where he won many battles and even lifted the siege of Storms End. That experience combined with his ability to hold his own against Dayne (as a younger fighter) and Jamie (as an older man) lead me to believe the Mountain would not just run through Ned.
I also think Ned was a humble person and believe Selmy legitimately was aware of how good a fighter Ned was. So I would consider Ned to be an upgraded version of Garlan Tyrell (whom you thought could beat the Mountain), but would still favor the Mountain with his size, strength and brutality, but a Ned victory would not surprise me. I may just throw a dragon on the Lord of Winterfell lol.
@@guiness1100 Ned is a petty good fighter but the mountain is complete freak show and i think a normal strong fighter has a bad matchup against him.
I said this last round. With Ice, he'd have a bigger advantage than most against the Mountains armor. I think that scene with Barristan shows he has that same quality as Brown of knowing exactly how good he is and isn't. I think he's the "light" version of Bobby B from the previous video. Not quite as good as fighting, Ice is probably marginally less useful against plate than the warhammer Bobby uses, but I still think he could pull through. Better than even odds, at least. Sure one screw up and he's done, but most of these situations fall into that category. As you said, he at least lived through a fight with Arthur Dayne, which a whole lot of other people didn't, no matter how much help they had.
Still think, the Hound!!!! He wasa brutal warrior, and showed a kind side to Area at the end of the series, but he was on a mission the whole damn series!!!!°°
I think you should do book charters that can/can't like strong Belwas, victarion and garlen
"Who could defeat Victarion" would be a better topic. He's a monster that's been engaged in way more actual combat than any knights of westeros and he's tricked out in legendary equipment.
Tormund is an interesting one. Would they meet beyond the wall? That kind of frost might be a total duck to the Mountain's plate. I don't know if it would gather frost as body heat might help, but especially after a longer campaign it could. But if he doesn't have the right footwear, he'd likely slip fairly easily and have a hell of a time getting up. If they met south of the wall I'd say Mountain every time.
We always assume it's a trial by combat with an exploitable environment like we see in the show (like furniture and potential human shields) but not any unfavourable weather conditions. Otherwise you can open up a big can of worms (A lightly armoured fighter will probably fair better in an extremely hot arid environment if they can outlast their opponent ect...) Thanks for watching Aleksi!
Thank you for recognizing the difference between soldiers and duelists. It always annoys me when someone says a character must be a great one-on-one fighter because they fought a lot of battles. Granted, it seems like in the GOT world that Westerosi battles were basically huge melees, or at least that's the way they were portrayed in the show. Danaerys probably could've taken the whole continent with just the Unsullied because those "let me just run really fast towards the enemy and start swinging away" fighters wouldn't stand a chance against a real phalanx formation.
Your welcome Billy! Yeah its kind of like comparing a quick draw champion against a member of the SAS. In a one on one open ground duel? Sure I'm backing the quick draw champ. In a battle where its an SAS squad against a squad of quick draw champs, I'm backing the guys who dare and win EVERY SINGLE time 😂 Thanks for watching Billy! Liam
@@shifterverse Apt comparison.
Nothing better than finding a new amazing channel 😂😂quite hilarious 👍👍👍
Thanks Stoic Waziri! We appreciate it!
Someone did mention Sandoq the Shadow, (book-only/ Fire & Blood) a mute giant with heavy armor and Valyrian steel would eat the Mountain wven though he’s a foot shorter. Valyrian steel has been described as easily piercing mail and imagine that with inhuman strength behind it?
Also a note about Ramsay, in the books Roose says that Ramsay was trained by Reek who himself had no formal training at arms, he is ferocious but “swings that sword like a butcher hacking meat”. So while he may be cunning, Gregor has him beat easily with skill as well as size, strength, reach, and battle instinct.
Sandoq would be one of the few people in the whole ASOIF universe that could legitimately frighten the Mountain (Who displays the markers that he's potentially a psychopath with a highly supressed fear response) 😂 Ramsey isn't beating The Mountain without some serious pre battle sabotage which he's capable of, but we don't think it's fair to consider that in a trial by combat scenario, especially since the Lannisters would likely keep him somewhere safe before the fight. Thanks for watching! Liam
“I’ll never let that go D n D.” (Aka dumb and dumber) is my favorite part of the video.
I agree with all opinions except Bronn. He'd be toast
See we kind of thought the same. But something we came to realise is that Cersei/Tywin saw fit to bribe Bronn to prevent him taking the fight, arranging a marriage and lordship is quite a bit of effort, especially for a jumped up sellsword. So even Cersei and Tywin thought Bronn had it in him to do it.
Hes on the bottom end of our fighters who can, but we think there is a hefty enough amount of dirt going in Gregors eyes to give Bronn the edge.
Thanks for watching! Liam
Oberyn could have done it if he wasnt so obsessed with revenge, well at least in the show idk about the book version
If we stick to the skills and physicality from the books: Oberyn Martell (he actually pulled it off but dragged it out way too much), Daario, Jamie with 2 hands, Sandor, Brienne, maybe Barristan. That's it.
I agree with all except Brienne.
What about a Faceless Man verses the Mountain? When they change forms, can they change size too?
We addressed faceless men in our second vid Magister! th-cam.com/video/RfCELMiWfII/w-d-xo.html
Bronn in conversation with Tyrion before the trial by combat described that fight between Oberyn and Mountain.
Sir Bariston. It is a shane how they killed him off. there is now way he would be whitout his armor in this Situation and in his armor he would have killed them all and got away... but if they really had to get rid of him, then at least in a more Honororable fight..
100000000% Jenss. Even the actor was quite disgusted with the way they killed him off. He had so much more to give as a character. I would have rather he'd die of old age like maester Aemon. Let him go out undefeated and maintaining his status as the paragon of knighthood he represented! Thanks for watching! Liam
Good point about Grey Worm. He could lead an attack against the Mountain, but hes losing a 1v1
Thanks Spadinner! Thats the issue really, while there is some cross over of skills, its two totally different scenarios. But like pitting a quick draw champ against a member of the SAS, in a duel my money would be on the champ, in a squad vs squad engagement on the battlefield id be backing the SAS all day! Thanks for watching! Liam
Only pure skill could defeat the Mountain. Oberyn did it. He won that fight. If the fight had stopped then and there. Dario, Barristan, maybe Bronn could. Bryanne could.
Seeing how Brienne did against an extremely famished, infected, weakened, disadvantaged Hound, and how she almost died to like six Bolton men saving Sansa and Theon, she'd get destroyed by The Mountain.
I think Brianne would get wrecked. I also don't think the Greatjon could beat Clegane. He's basically just an older, smaller version of the Mountain.
@@Edmures_rampant_manhood He is older and smaller, but not too old and not too small. Greatjon is 7ft even and has the strength of eight men. The Mountain is 8ft even and has the strength of ten men.
That is a great physical disparity, but nothing that cannot be circumvented with skill when it comes to bladed weaponry. And the Greatjon, unlike The Mountain, is a highly skilled fighter with a ton of cunning.
The Mountain isn't unskilled and he isn't stupid, but the Greatjon is legit a supreme fighter. Jaime himself recognizes him as one of the few men who could potentially beat him, and Jaime was known to be the greatest swordsman of his time, only knowing equals in Barristan and Arthur Dayne throughout time.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I don't remember the Greatjon ever being described as a supremely skilled fighter. I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I've read the books or watched the early seasons of the show. I think people tend to almost discount size and strength because it looks cooler if a smaller person beats a bigger person. I've seen a lot of fights in my life (not with swords lol) and despite Hollywood notions, brute strength usually wins.
"Wisdom".....Ser Baristan walking around an occupied city being plagued with Harpees without his armor in the show was absurdly stupid and a terrible way to kill him off.
We may hate Criston, but he is the only guy who has fought and won a 1v1 against a Valyrian Steel sword using a normal one
The show just ruined his depiction which was a stupid decision
We're only poking a bit of fun. His show depiction left me and Thom with a bit of a bitter taste after all the simping. He's definitely not someone to mess with, beating Daemon in single combat is an acolayde many would love to claim and we think Daemon would smoke the Mountain.
Thanks for watching guys! Liam
For sure. From what we read in Fire&Blood He seems to be on a similar skill level as Jaime
Who's we? I like Crispy.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I think most people who have read the books do (Including us at the Fandome) it's his show depiction that gets a little more bi polar of a reaction. One side of him is this skilled and by westerosi standards honourable knight who is so far the only guy to beat everyone's favourite character Daemon. On the other he's a whiny petty bitch who can't get over that he wasn't the rightful queens choice.
We just stuck him in at the end to poke a bit of fun and bait out that maybe we hadn't listened for a third time at everyone saying Barristan.
You guys have really deepened my appreciation of Barristan (sp?). I have read the books in addition to watching the show, and for whatever reason, I really overlooked him.
i think syrio forell WOULD have a shot, not a guarantee but a decent chance (above 60%) he has the agility and is nimble enough to avoid getting hit and skilled enough (and again, nimble and quick enough) to take advantage of the gaps in the mountains armor, it will very much be a "death by a hundred cuts" situation but it is doable, especially because the mountain has shown in his trial by combat that he is fairly easy to provoke into reckless attacks
and yes tacking advantage of those gaps isnt as easy as people think but its also not as hard as people think, especially with techniques such as half swording and from syrio's fights we can deduce that his biggest strength isnt even is speed or agility but his ability to read his oponents because frankly that is the only way you can beat severall armed oponents with a wooden weapon
Syrio was chosen to train Arya because she favored a sword like Needle, and that's not a sword you'd half sword with. In theory, I see your argument but I've also seen sabers and rapiers break mid combat (and had one broken on me). All it would take is a bad thrust that misses as joint and hits a plate or to have Gregor pinch the blade between the plates it stuck in and suddenly Syrio is disarmed
@@lilithhawke1028 i doubt "you dont do that with that kind of sword" is an argument in a life or death situation, you can half sword with a damn butter knife if your life depends on it. and while the benefits are smaller then with an armingsword or even a long sword they are still there, also i dont think syrio was chosen because of the type of weapon, i mean the practice swords HE BROUGHT didnt look like a rapier, small sword or anything like that, i imagine he was chosen because his style relies more on flexibility and agility rather then strength and seeing as arya is a little girl at the time it seems reasonable to argue that training her in a sword style that relies more on those things gives better results then a style who relies more on strength, if it was purely because of the type of weapon syrio wouldve brought practice swords that reflect either the favored weapon of himself or arya, and the swords look nothing like needle and look more like arming swords meaning something like an arming sword could very well be syrio's favored weapon.
also i said from the beginning i wasnt saying its a guaranteed win for syrio but he defenitly has an above fair chance to win or a get a draw
The issue is the accuracy, speed and luck needed to make such a lunge and not be beheaded or bisected as a result is insane. I also don't think half swording is a good idea when the reach difference is already as massive as it is, you want as much distance as possible between you and that sweeper of a sword Gregor uses. There's also Gregors shield to consider, its massive and a big defence redundancy to bypass just to get a shot at the armour joints and openings.
We think Syrio would make Gregor look very silly, been danced around and unable to land a blow on our favourite Bravossii, but we just don't think Syrio (with his standard arms) has got anything fight ending of his own.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts guys! Liam
What won the fight for the Viper was him dodging the Mountains attacks until he was tired and opened his back..
I think syrio would beat him for the same reason.
@@incitatus953 its a reasonable argument, but there is a difference between 8ft of reach with a spear and 3.75 ft of rapier style sword (and thats the absolute longest a man of Syrios stature can utilise before it becomes too unwieldy) one keeps you at a safe distance to take your shots and the other forces you to come into the kill zone of a 6ft long greatsword and a giant who can bear hug your to death
We all saw what happened when Oberyn got too close and that was after the Mountain had a poisoned spear broken off in his gut, he just powered straight through the pain.
Without a weapon with the reach advantage, Gregor has no incentive to do any chasing ethier, Syrios got to come to him, making the cat and mouse game harder (though Syrio is a witty bastard, wouldn't put it past him to have a few good burns in the chamber to rile the mountain up)
We don't put it past Syrio to land some hits, we just don't put it past Gregor to grab and crush Syrio when he tries to do something fight ending. Like we said in the vid we think Syrio can dance around the Mountain all day, we just don't think he can land that kill shot without been killed himself.
HEMA guy here, as per requested. The sword at 10:44 has the hilt of a rapier, but the blade is closer to a sidesword. (Which is a better cutter than the rapier.) And yes, stabbing into a armor joint points is not gonna happen with either swords, you will need to wrestle for that. You either need a longsword (or bigger) for that or a dagger.
However. It seemed that the Mountain did not have any significant armor on the back of his legs. With a decent cutting sword, a good and quick fencer could be able to outmanuever the Mountain, get behind him and cut the tendons. Kinda like Oberyn did. But I would still bet on the Mountain.
Thank you HEMA guy!!!! 😂 Thom does our footage editing and he hasn't done any HEMA ,so he just finds footage to help the audience visualise our point, but as a novice HEMA guy myself I honestly appreciate the educated insight! As a HEMA guy yourself what would you say the odds are out of 10 that a quick-very quick and skilled fencer like Syrio can get behind a fighter like Gregor, make a disabling wounding cut or thrust, and manage to get back out of the way of the berserker frenzy swipe or grab that's likely to follow? Thanks for answering the call! Liam
@@shifterverse " Thom does our footage editing and he hasn't done any HEMA"
he did a very good job in this video.
"As a HEMA guy yourself what would you say the odds are out of 10..."
this question is tricky to answer. during our sparring sessions, if I fence with a guy who is way better than me, out of duels I can win approximately 1, have a draw in 1-2, and he/she wins the rest. (draw = we both die.)
if it were unarmored fighting, anyone could get a lucky blow and win it. since armor comes into play, it mitigates the luck factor a lot. especially if the 2 parties have very different armor sets. also, Syrio was a great fencer is Essos. where people didn't seem to wear a lot of armor, so it is safe to say he was not an expert against armored opponents. if he had some time to prepare for the duel (like a week) and a tutor, his chances would go up significantly, at least to 3 or 4 (out of 10). but if someone just came up to him and said "hi, this is the Mountain, you gonna fight him in 10 minutes", I would say Syrio would win 0 out of 10.
"...make a disabling wounding cut or thrust, and manage to get back out of the way of the berserker frenzy swipe..."
yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. IF the cut is good enough, there won't be a follow up from the other party, because he will collapse, simply because his remaining leg won't be able to support the weight and the sudden imbalance. I once had a bad cramp in one of my legs, and I went down like a ragdoll. and I wasn't even wearing 50 extra pounds of armor.
but, if the frenzy swipe did come, I don't think it would be a problem for a guy lik Syrio, because he does unarmored fighting, where you need to "strike, retreat, repeat", so it would come automatically for him.
did this answer your question?
@@szepi79 absolutely Szepi! Thank you! Its actually a neat little point in Syrios favour that its instinctual for him to retreat due to the lack of armour, now he just needs to get behind the mountain in the first place 😂
@@shifterverse I know, right?! The Mountain is basically in a disadvantage :P
@@shifterverseone another thought why it is hard to determine a fight in GoT (besides the obvious "the writers decides who wins") :
historical duels fall into 2 categories, judicial and civil. their purpose differs a lot, but the common thing in both of them is that they put "equality" in the focus. both participants must have had the same type of equipment, so it was unimagineable that one combatant has a full plate and a sword, and the other some light armor and a spear. heavy armor for both of them, or for neither of them. (of course, there were times when even this setting provided some serious advantage for one party, but what can you do)
that was pretty much the only rule, everything else was for a subject of discussions. and people came up with some crazy shit. once they were duelling in hot air balloons and shooting at each other with blunderbuss. (that ended with the death of the loser AND the death of the crew of balloon, who had nothing to do with the conflict)
there was another occasion where they threw biliard balls against each other. yes, that ended with death as well.
once the duel method was to wrestle your opponent into a bag. people are crazy.
Loras in the Books is strong
Oh for sure he's bloody good, thats why we said its so much closer than people might think. Out of our picks for those that we think can't, Loras is the one Greg's really going to have to work for. Thanks for watching! Liam
Qhorin Halfhand - Best of the Knight's Watch who lost some fingers on his right hand, but trained with his left hand and became an even better swordsman than with his right.
Jeor and Jorah Mormont - Both strong fighters, Jeor being strong as a bear even in advanced age. Has a short-hafted battle axe, and Longclaw, a Valerian steel bastard sword. Jorah has fought and won in Westeros and Braavos in many battles, and even took a city with just him, Barristan Selmy, Belwas, and 20 men (in the books). In the show, he fights and wins in the pits.
Books only - Strong Belwas had never lost a fight. From slave to pit fighter, he is someone Barristan Selmy could rely on in battle.
Strong belwas
Issue we have with Belwas Aaron is his code of conduct. He's got an obsession with letting his opponents cut him once before he takes them down. One cut from the Mountain would likely leave Belwas bisected 😂😂 if he's willing to throw that tradition out of the window, wear some armour and pick a longer weapon, I certainly wouldn't put it past Belwas the beast to mess Gregor up! Thanks for watching! Liam
@shifterverse true but he was able to avoid a Lance only letting it graze him. When truly he probably should have been impaled.
@@aaronforsythe8556 That is a good point. Like Gregor himself, Belwas is quicker than a man his size ought to be. Other issue is how he deals with The Mountains armour. He'll need to be given a can opener of a weapon.
@shifterverse yeah that is the bigger issue. The sword he uses wouldn't be particularly good against heavy armor
@@aaronforsythe8556 Yeah, not many swords are good vs Armour to be honest. Greatswords can be effective if you can put the force and weight of the weapon in the right place like the opponents head. Longswords with a relatively thin point can also get the job done if you can get it into armour joints, eye slits or armpits, but not an easy prospect. But swords as a whole are crap vs armour. We need to give Belwas a nice heavy axe or hammer. something with some weight to it so he can give Gregors migraines a helping hand 😂😂 If both were unarmoured though I'd give it to Belwas every time.
The best question I’ve ever heard involving GoT is would you root for the mtn or Ramsay haha
This comment has actually inspired us to do a video on that Mark 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@shifterverse gosh now I to check TH-cam every hour until it’s finally uploaded haha
@@marksheen4873 might be a couple of weeks pal, we're still extremely late on the Tyrell vid that we promised after the Stannis one 😂 but its on the list, pretty neat idea to be honest!
Gregor was highly confident in his large strength . So he thinks he can kill any one with his bare hand. So he was not afraid of any fighters he saw. But in the case of Greajon Umber he see a man same as his size. So his confidence gone a little. But he was ready to fight. But if he saw Wunwun the famous mountain will pee in his pants and fearly said that now I see the real mountain.
Pretty much! Gregs got some skills beyond just his strength, but it's his size that pushes him from a decent fighter into a top tier one. Without that advantage, he's just a slightly above average fighter! Thanks for watching! Liam
What one on one combat did Ramsey ever do in the show
There are those that think he's some brilliant warrior because of that shirtless fight in the show. We don't think he's all that which is why we think he's deadmeat. Thanks for watching James! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Thank you 🙏 I appreciate your reply. I admit that I haven’t read the literature but i have been listening to the audiobooks to try and catch up incase George ever decides to write the next book. I’m almost fished with clash and it’s so awesome to a resource with videos like yours that help explain and point out things you might have missed. It makes the experience of reading or listening much better
@@JamesWilliams-dz5tn the tragic thing about the audio books. Roy Doltrice the narrator has sadly passed away so if GRRM ever does make another book, they'll need a new Narrator! Hope youre enjoying them! im currently relistening to- Thom
@@TheFandomeClips I honestly don’t know how their going to fill his shoes. He left his own imprint on the story with his tone, inflection and timing. RIP
There is another one who can defeat the mountain and I doubt anyone has put Ser Pounce on their list.
Too OP for the Mountain that Skipper! 😂😂
This is the most criminally underrated comment ever.
I've only got experience in HEMA as a spectator, but have been doing padded weapons fighting for over a decade, and boy can I tell you it's hard going up against someone who's a head taller than you if you also employ similar tactics (re: your assessment of Brienne vs the Mountain). It takes a lot of speed to be able to negate the reach advantage. If the opponent is particularly timid, this can be achieved more easily, as they'll be more likely to let you engage and disengage, being afraid to follow as you do. But if you have a taller, stronger opponent who also has some aggression, you'll very quickly get swarmed when they push on, and then it'll be hell to get outside of that longer reach again.
Absolutely. Reach is such an advantage. Look at Oberyn, one of the greatest fighters alive at the time. He didn't even chance it and took 8ft of reach to ensure he had that advantage!
who in hotD could beat the Mountain?
Haha this horse won't die no matter how hard we beat it 😂 Thanks for the suggestion Felix! Liam
Criston cole should be able to beat him although with some difficulty. We haven’t seen yet him but Cregan stark may be able to given how well he did against Aemon the dragon knight
Criston
Caraxes
Ser Criston, and Cregan Stark (though he isn't in the show yet)
The Joe Rogan reaction was good. That got me 😂
Glad you liked that bit Charles!! I'm definetly down to see some Rogan reactions to some of these match ups with the mountain 😂😂😂 - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips No need Thom I can read minds, ready?
"If Syrio knew Jujitsu he would have beaten Gregor, If Greyworm knew Ju-jitsu he would have won, if Loras knew Jujitsu he would have won, if Tormond knew Jujitsu he would have won, if Ramsey knew Ju-jitsu he would have won"
😂😂😂😂😂
You forgot your mom, she is obviously bigger than mountain.
And Yours.... :p - Thom
Not a particularly serious suggestion but given adequate range - Anguy, the archer from the Brotherhood Without Banners. He's basically the finest archer in the series and unlike the Dothraki or Ygritte uses a full longbow. Now the armour-piercing capabilities of medieval longbows are ... debated, but given his demonstrated skills I think he has a chance of sniping the mountain before he gets close - provided he's given room to manoeuvre.
In a battlefield scenario I 100 percent agree with you, dude could have given legolas a run for his money 😂 he'd plant a few right in Gregors neck and one in the visor for good measure. Then Berric would look at him bewildered and say "that still only counts as one!" 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
9:54 Actually an epee rapier like Arya's needle is designed with 3 edges like a bayonet and are meant to puncture plate armor specifically.
"...grab the slight hill..."
Underrated writing.😂😂😂😂
Of note regarding Grey Worm and the unsullied.
If castrated before puberty a male will often grow far larger than they otherwise would. The increased testosterone and estrogen of puberty moderates several growth hormones and is what causes the growth plates in your bones to fuse (for women, estrogen and progesterone do this). If you are castrated before puberty these will take longer to fuse closed (meaning you keep growing for longer than you otherwise would) and you'll end up taller. Many court eunuchs in Chinese history are recorded as being over 7 feet tall and physically imposing.
In the show Grey Worm (and the rest of the Unsullied) are small and not very physically imposing, but are depicted as muscular.
In reality they would have been large and roundish with less defined muscle despite exercising every day. Ideal for Phalanx troops, difficult for regular people to take down, but unlikely to present a challenge one on one with any of the top swordsmen of the day.
I would rank a swordmaster with speed and a rapier waaaay higher. Not against a good opponent (because of armor and reach of a greatsword), but a middling but physically strong opponent against a swordmaster who knows the type of enemy and can prepare.. A rapier can thrust and thus go into weakpoints the same way, a spear can. First tire your enemy, then wound him, then wait until he collapses and attack the neck.
You've got tire him and get that wound in first though and that's the trouble with a rapier. It's reach doesn't exceed the reach of a 6ft greatsword like a spear does. There is absolutely no incentive for Greg to do any chasing as he has the reach advantage, Syrio is the one whose got to do the gap closing and spend energy. It would take some serious, serious provoking to get Greg moving which I can admit is not impossible, he's got a temper and Syrio is one beautifully witty bastard.
But The Mountain isn't an idiot, that's a misapprehension due to his show actors been strongmen with no sword training. He's actually pretty skilled (just not top tier) and has good fighting instincts. There's a reason he's who Jaime waxes lyrical about the best swordsmen in Westeros taking on in the books. He's quite literally a swordsman's worst nightmare to fight.
Not saying your thoughts are wrong BTW, and not saying Syrio can't do it, it's just not favourable for him. Even sword masters often (not always but often) beat heavily armoured opponents by been armoured themselves and wrestling their opponent to the ground where they can wedge either their sword or a handy dagger into joints and pry them open or stick their blade in the less armoured (but still armoured with Mail and Gambeson) spots.
Thanks for watching and giving your thoughts Tom! Liam
that clip of a longsword denting plate armor is a weapon smashing armor made of aluminum. a steel chest plate can shrug off mace strikes a sword has no shot at denting it.