The only way to salvage 2024 is to finish out the features they half-ass added. Deliver the full starmap. Remove the flyover ads from store items. Deliver the option to set default actions on all interactables, not just a few. Provide an option to choose the radial interaction or the old, flat interaction (since a large portion of the population hates the radial and it really only benefits those using a game controller). Polish the loot screen, so it works reliably and we don't have to enter the paper doll to properly loot. Roll back the personal inventory change until you can finish wotking on it, or release a working version. Fix looting, so it's a worthwhile endeavor. Release the bespoke boxes (ammo crates, med crates, armor stands, etc.) so we can organize our gear. Re-work ATC and Transit before 4.0 drops. Bring back the power triangle before releasing 3.24.2; keep the detailed power management screen if you like, but give us back the ability to change power quickly and efficiently. Give us polished features as they're promised in panels and media by the end of the year, or CIG has failed miserably for 2024. Hopefully they'll do better in 2025. I'm losing confidence in some of the lead developers.
If anyone was wondering about VR mike is a little incorrect, they did break it but its been fixed again for awhile now, i was playing starcitizen in vr just last night on live, if you havent tried the mech suit in vr i would highly recommend! the mechs tractor beam hand follows where ever your head is looking its super cool!
One thing that seems to be either constantly overlooked or just purposely ignored is just the overall scope/size of SC. Star citizen is one game that is, in reality, at least half a dozen different games all wrapped up together into a single game, so it is and should be no surprise when CIG fails to hit a projected target or goal date. Also, server meshing is way way way more important to SC’s functionality than it seems people understand just because of the previously mentioned scope of the game. As we can see right now a huge number of the “bugs” and other issues are in some way linked to server performance either directly or indirectly. Any talk of any new feature or a major location, like pyro or any other star system, being pushed out without meshing is just insane as the current server architecture would just die completely under the load. The game’s major bottleneck right now are the servers, server meshing must be deployed before any new features, or even dynamic events, are released. Addressing the server bottleneck will dramatically improve the game.
Before everyone said this about PES. Before PES everyone said this about OCS. Point is there's always this idea that we just need x or y magic bullet, but there is no magic bullet, and that includes meshing. It may improve server performance, but it won't improve CIG's performance. That's the real issue.
I don't think the "hey that armor looks cool, where did you get that" idea would go well with "it can be lost" and SC being a full loot pvpve game. SC as an fps game probably won't have fps gear with meaningful stats, because it's not an rpg, which means cool looking armor would only be cosmetic. And something that's rare and lootable will mostly only be worn where its safe, because otherwise people wouldn't ask "where did you get that?" instead they would just shoot you and loot it off your corpse. So no one in their right mind would wear such an armor in combat when they can wear a generic armor with the same stats that can easily be replaced.
You kinda contradict yourself here a bit. People don't wear cool-looking armor right now because a) it can be lost, but also because b) there's no benefit over a standard set of easily available armor. So in my view, CIG has two problems to solve. They have to 1) give us ways to reliably loot or manufacture replacement armor and b) they have to give armor meaningful differences to encourage people to wear them for reasons other than "it looks cool". In a full loot game, if armor is only cosmetic, what's the incentive to loot? IMO they will HAVE to create FPS with meaningful stat differences, and they'll have to do it in a way that is different from traditional MMORPG design because SC is fundamentally a different beast.
@@MrBenjaminRhoades I don't see any contradiction whatsoever. Armor in SC can only largely be cosmetic, because it's not a fantasy rpg with magical set bonuses that improve stats. The only meaningful stats an armor can provide in an environment like SC are weight, slots for ammo and other equipment and protection against gunfire. And the reason people would shoot other people for a rare cosmetic armor is simply because it's rare. So you wouldn't wear such a thing in combat unless it gave you a substantial advantage over regular armor. And by substantial I mean really substantial. Even if there's rare armor that gives you 50% more damage resistance, given how SC's fps pvp functions you will still be quickly gunned down in most pvp situations. So if you stumble upon a rare cosmetic you store it away and wear it for IAE or something, but unless they're really going overboard with arnor bonuses, I don't see anyone using anything other than cheap standard equipment that is easily replacable. I feel like people are thinking way too much of games like tarkov and other stuff where gear is actually scarce, but this won't work for SC. I believe armor won't be rare at all tbh, I'm betting on ship components and later on blueprints for crafting as the main source of rare loot. The other thing I thought about were titan suits, but after the ATLS disaster it's pretty clear that CIG will straight up sell those for real money.
Easy way to have cool armour with cool stats in a full loot game, either just do it, it's no big deal, it creates tension and a sense of risk vs reward, and cool moments like in DayZ or UO can occur, where you're not sure if you can trust people outside of safe zones, people will still use the cool armour with the good stats, because it will give them an edge in those situations, remember death will eventually have a penalty, you'll want to have the good stuff to stay alive.. Or, tie the cool armour with good stats to reputation, you have to build up the rep to buy those items from a vendor, you lose it, you can just go and buy it again. And if you trade to someone or they loot it off you and don't have the reputation to actually get it themselves, they get a huge negative reputation hit to NPCs of that faction, possibly turning them hostile to them. Also, armour already has stats on it like damage reduction and movement penalties and equipment slots, other "stats" can be added too, like environmental protection, larger life support, larger EVA fuel, better protection vs weapon types etc.
if it had cool stats and can be lost then it means people will farm it so they can lose a few before they have to go back. if everything is cosmetic there is no incentive to actually use it.
Why are we "salvaging" a year that can be argued is CIGs best year ever? Most are claiming that "their" feature didn't make it, but most of the known SC content creators declared last year at Citizen Con "If half of these features make it it will be the GREATEST YEAR EVER!" Xero, Captain Berks, Morphologis, Salty Mike (who to be fair, only wanted hands touching panels), and Level Cap all stated this, to each other and us. Half, if not more, will have made it in with 3.24.2. I like this year so far, and I can give No F's about cargo. I am still enjoying the cargo stuff.
"We have a mission team that needs to do a mission rework" The mission content team isn't the one that can adapt missions for sever meshing, all they can do is make more missions with the tools they have, they are mission content team, not mission feature team. They can't just wait until the new mission features are ready so they made blocad runner to keep them buisy. It makes perfect sense. There's nothing to get mad about there...
For me they cant salvage this year. The problem which i realized awhile ago is no matter what CIG announes is always years away. 12 years in and they still have no idea what the game is. They are technically figuring it out now which puts the finished product years and years down the line. Even if 4.0 comes out this year you will still be doing the same boring broken game loops you do in stanton but now you will be doing it in pyro. The game loops can be repetitive but if each mission is in a different location then it wouldnt be that bad. Long story short i lost hope.
You don't hear much about people pirating cargo haulers because of these reasons: - Terminals are not working - Cargo elevators are not working - After waiting for an hour for someone to fill up their C2, you might just go do something else? - Stealing single boxes gets old REALLY FAST!
My home spawn location ASOP and ATC (Area18) is completely broken. I cant call any ships, land any ships after setting my regen spot somewhere else, and no access to anything I bought from the pledge store.
Good podcast guys, as usual. I want to make a couple points, the first is a meta-critique of Mike's style on the podcast. I agree with some of your sentiment, but your framing and style could use some work. Calling someone's question "stupid" is a bad look, and just because you then go on to explain your POV after the fact doesn't rectify your poor communication choices made earlier. This is coming from someone who also had to learn that lesson. IMO try retraining yourself to pick different phrases to redirect a conversation and express disagreement, rather than calling someone's opinion "dumb" or "stupid". Secondly, regarding Croncy's question comparing this year to previous years, I have to say that while this year has been disappointing due to high expectations, they have delivered more things related to CitCon than any other year I've been part of the project. For that reason, I'm still excited for CitCon this year, but I'll go in with the expectation that we'll probably only see around 50% of what's being shown. Other than still missing 4.0, I'm not dissatisfied with how the game has progressed in the last year. We've got better UI (though unfortunately not necessarily more functional UI), we've got fauna, we've got MM, and we've got freight elevators. Later this year we'll presumably get the Polaris, and hopefully engineering at the same time (or shortly thereafter). As always, the pace of development is slower than I'd like, but it does seem like it's speeding up.
i honestly think foxhole is a great example for what the economy should end up looking like, pretty much everything is done by players for players, which allows for it to become truly dynamic.
Last year everyone said that 2024 would make or break SC. For me, it's broken. The new FM is horrible and has killed any hope I had that the game would be fun or exciting. The more I look into SC's old content, the more I see that CIG only takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
I’m not fine with it… I’ve given up on them and I just get frustrated with their development. They get no more money from me or game time. I’ll log in for a few hours on a patch to check what’s new but I Need a Fun, Functional, Nonetedious GAME to play alone and with friends. Maybe one day in the future! Maybe not… it’s up to CIG and their choices. Development, Marketing, and System choices*
I agree with this. Between the flight model, repetitive gameplay and added tedium, I can't bring myself to play star citizen. It's just not entertaining or fun.
Dude, no offense but I'm tired of explaining it just for CIG white knights to be toxic. Watch anyone do a PVE bounty hunt before 3.23 and compare it to now. You don't need a doctorate to see how borked it is. Also, all of the reasons why MM was supposed to be better are actually worse and CIG has yet to explain themselves. It's fundamentally flawed, no matter how much they adjust the speeds and weapons.
Why do you need to police their opinions on the game? Do you need content creators to tell you your own opinions or you're gonna get mad and pee your pants? Gonna have a cry if they don't find more things to be negative about?
@@DaringDan You wouldn't ask unless you were trying to influence the outcome. Why else would you ask such a useless question? You don't have to play dumb and cope when your intentions are clear.
@@KA317S You afraid of giving Mike his one time per year to experience some joy? Don't worry, you get to hear him be critical of CIG for the other 50 weeks in the year. You'll be ok.
Can they? Of course. Will they? No chance. I always said if they somehow delivered just half of what they showed at CitCon then this year would be a success. It would take a legit miracle to do that in the next 3 months.
Chris Roberts at Citizencon 2023 said in his opening speech that Star citizen will become a drastically different expirience in the next 12 Months. We all saw how drastically different it became😂 CIG needs to walk the walk, enough of talking the talk
Sure CIG can salvage this year if they release 4.0 and S42 but it's not going to happen. 😆 Honestly I think if they just released S42 and it was outstanding people would dismiss server meshing being a technical hurdle holding the PU back one more year. But I don't think they were actually as close to finished with S42 as they wanted us to think last Citcon (I noticed a bunch of people on Space Tomatoes podcast not even thinking 2025 was likely anymore). The "biggest piece of the Citizen Con puzzle" was definitely Squadron though, not 4.0. I know some people are only interested in star Citizen but as far as showing what CIG can do and where all their work went Squadron is undoubtedly bigger than 4.0. We also kind of knew about the tech holding 4.0 up and we also knew they had very few people working on the PU. Squadron was the big mystery that supposedly all the work went into.
If sq42 releases, know the community will be very vocal in many directions, want more, want 2nd sequel, who is next enemy, too short, too long etc etc... yet mmo which I assume follows along sq42 is not out yet but now dev must work on the after vanduul, SC virtual Alpha development continuum?!?! I would be surprised if sq42 comes out at or around 4.0, nor in the state flight mode, grav leg and still professions don't exists yet. Honestly I just don't see sq42 til 2025~27 at the early of earliest but more probable 2027~30. I argue server meshing is going to take a couple of years just for stability and improvements.
1:13:19 spot on bro. Stop wasting time and backer's money on these dumbass events while other stuff falls by the wayside and rots. Platform missions on Crusader have been broken for multiple patches now, how about we fix those and start expanding on the distro center missions or the FOB locations? The events can wait, make long term and meaningful content for us.
The only thing CIG knows how to get done, are time sinks. They fail at anything else... even 2014 at gamescom i asked about NPC and AI turrets and they said soon. So yeah, they know how to bend time, physicists should ask CIG how time works and how progress is defined.
The more granular the game, (engineering, physicalised components, etc), the more network bandwidth and speed is needed to maintain functionality. We are seeing many game mechanics being nerfed to adjust for increased granularity. (Flight model being one of losers). Server meshing will help things to a point, though increased player populations will also hog much more server resources. It appears that cig are now realising the huge impact of the increasing game granularity.
Well they had better have something that makes people excited at this year's Citizencon. Even if the new ships and features never sees the light of day they had better have something that make the crowd cheer. Otherwise, it's going to be an incredibly awkward Citizencon.
MM ruined SC for many pilots, at least that aspect of it. Even for me, I dislike MM and it ruins my passion for flight. Thankfully SC is more than just flying. I just haven't found anything in game with as much depth and enjoyment as the old flight model. Moving boxes isn't fun for me. Space Combat missions aren't as fun anymore. FPS missions haven't really changed- we are still waiting on Bounty Hunting 2.0 which actually could give me a fun gameplay loop. Salvage is moving boxes. So is Mining really, eventually. I've been trying, but every time I try and give SC another chance, they find a way to kick me when I'm down and at this point they're beating a dead horse.
@@playakoz oh yes Bounty Hunting in slow MM will be similar to a deer-hunter sitting somewhere waiting for a target to pass around cause forget about speed and adrenalin chases... soon it will be turnbase game lol
Can they salvage this year. Well here is my expectation, i wish better but least of least....Last test did hit ~1000 players with massive, massive, massive caveats but they successfully clocked it. I expect polaris with 4.0 and 4.0 by december.. likely ultra broken as in 3.18 but delivered nonetheless.
oh they can no problem salvage this year. with what they have in 3.24.2 they can show they put 60-70% of what they showed into our hands one way or another (live or tech preview) and help us get a little bit of perspective on how the game has actually moved forward a lot in the last year. Add to that big Squadron reveal/release date, exciting reveals from planetary v5 and the whole 1.0 vision with I would assume a similar approach they had last year to actually show more than to theorize. They probably will tempt a premature 4.0 evo in December to also mitigate the fears on it being far away from release (even though, hey, that's going to be a bumpy and long PTU cycle). They will very likely break another funding record too.
The fact the title even has to be from 2 of the biggest SC creators says it all …I hope they do, this is THE game for me …but man 1000+ employees and just feels like SC is an afterthought lately; feedback ignored, spectrum moderated like a deathcamp, and on and on, if it was as good as some say the majority of what we see wouldn’t be what it is …
I dont think CIG has to salvage anything. Has thwre ever been a year of star citizen where everyone enjoys the game, everything works, and we get lots of content and functionality? I know a lot of people "feel" like CIG needs to salvage something, but the game is more polished with more features than ever. Still not enough to get me to play it, but it seems like some of you guys forget that pre-citcon blues are a seasonal affective disorder that has been happening to star citizen fans for a decade. There is nothing about this year for the game that is worse than any previous year. My frame rate has never been better, and maybe some of you forget what its like to not have salvage, cargo, minimaps, and everything else thats new in the game
While it is true that this pattern can be seen throughout their history, that is not the point. They have never set expectations as high as they did for this year, and they have never fallen so short. This is the issue that sets their failures of 2024 distinctly apart.
The game isnt in a bad spot, its that we are not getting new content fast enough. This year has been the most inactive ive seen both my orgs and other orgs i follow. the player base is dwindling very badly.
I don't think they can salvage anything, speaking for myself only, the way how they treat people with MM is infuriating, because it doesn't represent a 2 years of work what they presented to us and have audacity to tell us we have to wait after 4.0 so can't during those years deliver even functional fly combat is unacceptable and I'm already going to watch citizencon in an angry state because i dont' care about another sandworm or another talk about theater of wars or another date for pyro / SQ42 all I care is result either playable demo sq42 or no mercy... I will watch Asmongold on mute how he reacts to citizencon and will be posting messages "What you see is RENDER video not actual game footage" and similar things to ensure people are not misslead and missinformed ... but Your reaction I will watch with sound :) of course :)
Pretty much nothing they deliver lives up to the length of time they tease working on it. And no matter how long a feature is delayed, it doesn't mean it comes in better or more complete.
No, this year is done. We got some milk but no cookies! They definitely aren't listening to the feedback they asked us for. Slower speeds? Is a slap in the face! The ATLS money grab, is a slap in the face! What's the next slap in the face going to be?
They need to get the player base out of the habit of expecting play modes that can, in the time of a single long play session, earn enough money to buy whatever you possibly want. Using mining and salvage as an example, the amount of return on your investment and time should be such that after grinding for a good long time, you should be able to earn a pretty good living and if you add people (like an org) or efficiencies (playing extra long, investing in equipment wisely, min/maxing) you should be able to get rich, over time, not overnight. The play types that take a player to learn skills or acquire special equipment, such be able to amass profit faster than play types that simply require the player to do repetitive, low skill game play.
I wish I could find the clip of SaltyEMike saying last year that if CIG could deliver 50% of what they showed at CitCon he would be happy. after 3.24.2, won't they have achieved that? I mean, come on.
I am still waiting for the mission where Chris Roberts jumped in fire while trying to mario boots a wreckage for... if I remember data retrieval mission? So old and far away I am sad I never got to do it even though mario boots gameplay is often trash regardless the mmo
Why do the prioritize caves so weirdly? Because caves and wrecks are the only content they can do... there is nothing to explore in space, because CIG cannot do those.
Croncy with his maximum copium take of "GTA VI was delayed"....yea, but was GTA VI originally supposed to come out in 2016? Was GTA VI announced as feature complete last year? Come on dude.
I'm going to be even "saltier" than Mike... and my question is... can they even salvage this game at all! And salvage it before we're all in a nursing home. Croncy just urned 30, Mike's turning 40, I just turned 50... plenty backers are older than all of us... they didn't pitch a game that was supposed to take 20 years to create... but we're well on track for that. 😆 Not to mention that, statistically speaking, gamers don't play games like they used to, the market is far too saturated to promote actual game commitment from players, and the younger you are, the less likely you are to commit to a thing like Star Citizen for the long haul. I have doubts that we'll even see a full release in my lifetime, and when/if we do, it'll be far, far less than what we expected. Fingers crossed that CIG proves me wrong!!!
You can always count on the British to do a bunch of talking without saying anything. Frosty literally says 3.24 killed sc for him and when asked why he said “well they should have worked on it sometime in the future instead of now” wtf are you even on about?
No, not true, reputation works. Its just perhaps too linear? Super freakishly systemic like group or go fuck yourself, or again too limited through high repetitions?
Why do they continually down grade ships after people have spent 100s of $ on them. It's nothing fun to do anymore. What happened to the player bounties? What happened to the game period 🤔 was super fun and now damn near nothing fun about it anymore. Granted you guys can get people to come wherever you are and play but for the average person it's wack as hell out there.
I don't really see them salvaging it. Given that 3.24.2 is probably going to be in PTU up 'til close to citcon, they'll need to do an IAE patch of some sort very shortly after, there's really not time in the year to do a 4.0 cycle. Realistically, there isn't time left -now- if they started this week to do 4.0 unless it had a much quicker cycle than the other patches this year. And at the end of the day, they fell so incredibly short of what they said they were going to do; they said we'd be continuously playing things like Pyro all summer in tech preview, etc. None of that has really happened. Everything has been much more opaque than they said, they went basically radio silent on meshing for 6 months. What is there to salvage? They burned the entire year on 3.23 and the parts they cut off of it. Half the year was porting Squadron features, another half was trying to get the cargo refactor over the finish line, most of which was deliverables originally slated for 3.18. There's really nothing to do and it doesn't matter what they say at citcon, I really can't imagine being motivated or moved by citcon after last citcon vs. the year we've had. I think if Croncy does a full comparison (or if Mike does), the citcon footage from last year is going to be pretty sobering. I rewatched a lot of it after 3.23 and the comparison between how features were presented and what we were told they would include, look like, etc. vs the way they came in is pretty rough. Very, very few citcon features have arrived to the PU -as they were presented.- Most of the ones that have are rendering things like water tech. Almost everything has been incomplete in some fundamental way that makes the "50% delivered" trackers feel deeply dishonest; maybe they've delivered a version of 50% of the features, but they've mostly delivered the most superficial ones, and many of them are only 50% "delivered" in their own right vs the way they were shown off to us. So much was faked.
22:11 Typical Mike, cries everyday on his stream about lack of things to do.. CIG tries to put things to do in the game and Mike cries why are they focusing on trying to put stuff in the game..
@@KA317S like the ones they have, and still no content in them. They dug a hole, big whoop, put something in them already. Hole is not content, and if the new hole has the same stuff as the old hole, it's still not new content, it's just the old content in a different location....brainiac
it going be we need just another month 5 years later i could be wrong but the amount fluff the leaking on stuff been says not going happen for good while
Ridiculous. Sure not everything they tentatively promised is in the game over the year but a large amount of things they did are in. Has there ever been a year with more progress? People make this games their whole fucking life and its unhealthy. Step back, play something else and just watch the development, play when you want.
Mike please let Croncy talk rather than saying 'yep'. I have ADHD too bro, you just have to hold it in 😂
Croncy says "yep" almost as much as Mike does lmao
Well normal human conversations tend to have some overlap lmao.
I backed this game when i was a sophomore in undergrad - I'm now a fully fledged physician. insane how much time has passed
You could have become a dev and gone to work for CIG and maybe this shit would be ready by now....
But no.. you had to take an oath to help people....
The only way to salvage 2024 is to finish out the features they half-ass added. Deliver the full starmap. Remove the flyover ads from store items. Deliver the option to set default actions on all interactables, not just a few. Provide an option to choose the radial interaction or the old, flat interaction (since a large portion of the population hates the radial and it really only benefits those using a game controller). Polish the loot screen, so it works reliably and we don't have to enter the paper doll to properly loot. Roll back the personal inventory change until you can finish wotking on it, or release a working version. Fix looting, so it's a worthwhile endeavor. Release the bespoke boxes (ammo crates, med crates, armor stands, etc.) so we can organize our gear. Re-work ATC and Transit before 4.0 drops. Bring back the power triangle before releasing 3.24.2; keep the detailed power management screen if you like, but give us back the ability to change power quickly and efficiently.
Give us polished features as they're promised in panels and media by the end of the year, or CIG has failed miserably for 2024.
Hopefully they'll do better in 2025. I'm losing confidence in some of the lead developers.
55:01 Love this
Happy Birthday Croncy! I didn't find SC till my early 30's, so the fact you got in during your 20's makes you still a youngin!
Thanks for the conversation!
Good pod. Great mix of callers. Happy B-Day C!!! o7
If anyone was wondering about VR mike is a little incorrect, they did break it but its been fixed again for awhile now, i was playing starcitizen in vr just last night on live, if you havent tried the mech suit in vr i would highly recommend! the mechs tractor beam hand follows where ever your head is looking its super cool!
One thing that seems to be either constantly overlooked or just purposely ignored is just the overall scope/size of SC. Star citizen is one game that is, in reality, at least half a dozen different games all wrapped up together into a single game, so it is and should be no surprise when CIG fails to hit a projected target or goal date.
Also, server meshing is way way way more important to SC’s functionality than it seems people understand just because of the previously mentioned scope of the game. As we can see right now a huge number of the “bugs” and other issues are in some way linked to server performance either directly or indirectly. Any talk of any new feature or a major location, like pyro or any other star system, being pushed out without meshing is just insane as the current server architecture would just die completely under the load.
The game’s major bottleneck right now are the servers, server meshing must be deployed before any new features, or even dynamic events, are released. Addressing the server bottleneck will dramatically improve the game.
Before everyone said this about PES. Before PES everyone said this about OCS. Point is there's always this idea that we just need x or y magic bullet, but there is no magic bullet, and that includes meshing. It may improve server performance, but it won't improve CIG's performance. That's the real issue.
Server meshing isnt a magic bullet.
It's not going to make the game PLAY better.
Follow both mikes channels and had no idea this podcast was a thing.. u need to plug this way more mike. Anyway im here now and subbed
I don't think the "hey that armor looks cool, where did you get that" idea would go well with "it can be lost" and SC being a full loot pvpve game. SC as an fps game probably won't have fps gear with meaningful stats, because it's not an rpg, which means cool looking armor would only be cosmetic.
And something that's rare and lootable will mostly only be worn where its safe, because otherwise people wouldn't ask "where did you get that?" instead they would just shoot you and loot it off your corpse.
So no one in their right mind would wear such an armor in combat when they can wear a generic armor with the same stats that can easily be replaced.
You kinda contradict yourself here a bit. People don't wear cool-looking armor right now because a) it can be lost, but also because b) there's no benefit over a standard set of easily available armor. So in my view, CIG has two problems to solve. They have to 1) give us ways to reliably loot or manufacture replacement armor and b) they have to give armor meaningful differences to encourage people to wear them for reasons other than "it looks cool".
In a full loot game, if armor is only cosmetic, what's the incentive to loot? IMO they will HAVE to create FPS with meaningful stat differences, and they'll have to do it in a way that is different from traditional MMORPG design because SC is fundamentally a different beast.
@@MrBenjaminRhoades I don't see any contradiction whatsoever. Armor in SC can only largely be cosmetic, because it's not a fantasy rpg with magical set bonuses that improve stats. The only meaningful stats an armor can provide in an environment like SC are weight, slots for ammo and other equipment and protection against gunfire. And the reason people would shoot other people for a rare cosmetic armor is simply because it's rare. So you wouldn't wear such a thing in combat unless it gave you a substantial advantage over regular armor. And by substantial I mean really substantial. Even if there's rare armor that gives you 50% more damage resistance, given how SC's fps pvp functions you will still be quickly gunned down in most pvp situations.
So if you stumble upon a rare cosmetic you store it away and wear it for IAE or something, but unless they're really going overboard with arnor bonuses, I don't see anyone using anything other than cheap standard equipment that is easily replacable.
I feel like people are thinking way too much of games like tarkov and other stuff where gear is actually scarce, but this won't work for SC.
I believe armor won't be rare at all tbh, I'm betting on ship components and later on blueprints for crafting as the main source of rare loot. The other thing I thought about were titan suits, but after the ATLS disaster it's pretty clear that CIG will straight up sell those for real money.
Easy way to have cool armour with cool stats in a full loot game, either just do it, it's no big deal, it creates tension and a sense of risk vs reward, and cool moments like in DayZ or UO can occur, where you're not sure if you can trust people outside of safe zones, people will still use the cool armour with the good stats, because it will give them an edge in those situations, remember death will eventually have a penalty, you'll want to have the good stuff to stay alive..
Or, tie the cool armour with good stats to reputation, you have to build up the rep to buy those items from a vendor, you lose it, you can just go and buy it again. And if you trade to someone or they loot it off you and don't have the reputation to actually get it themselves, they get a huge negative reputation hit to NPCs of that faction, possibly turning them hostile to them.
Also, armour already has stats on it like damage reduction and movement penalties and equipment slots, other "stats" can be added too, like environmental protection, larger life support, larger EVA fuel, better protection vs weapon types etc.
For love of god, NO STAT CREEP@@justalex4214
if it had cool stats and can be lost then it means people will farm it so they can lose a few before they have to go back. if everything is cosmetic there is no incentive to actually use it.
I look forward to these each week!
Why are we "salvaging" a year that can be argued is CIGs best year ever? Most are claiming that "their" feature didn't make it, but most of the known SC content creators declared last year at Citizen Con "If half of these features make it it will be the GREATEST YEAR EVER!" Xero, Captain Berks, Morphologis, Salty Mike (who to be fair, only wanted hands touching panels), and Level Cap all stated this, to each other and us. Half, if not more, will have made it in with 3.24.2.
I like this year so far, and I can give No F's about cargo. I am still enjoying the cargo stuff.
Hell, my feature did not make it for sure which I keep begging to control npcs in my ship.
Because the features once given to people either sucked, didn't work, or aren't here yet. None of these systems came out as promised.
new leaks from 24.2 look like 4.0 might be bigger than we expect. Would be wild if we get more than one system if they can get meshing working well.
"We have a mission team that needs to do a mission rework"
The mission content team isn't the one that can adapt missions for sever meshing, all they can do is make more missions with the tools they have, they are mission content team, not mission feature team.
They can't just wait until the new mission features are ready so they made blocad runner to keep them buisy.
It makes perfect sense. There's nothing to get mad about there...
For me they cant salvage this year. The problem which i realized awhile ago is no matter what CIG announes is always years away. 12 years in and they still have no idea what the game is. They are technically figuring it out now which puts the finished product years and years down the line. Even if 4.0 comes out this year you will still be doing the same boring broken game loops you do in stanton but now you will be doing it in pyro. The game loops can be repetitive but if each mission is in a different location then it wouldnt be that bad. Long story short i lost hope.
You don't hear much about people pirating cargo haulers because of these reasons:
- Terminals are not working
- Cargo elevators are not working
- After waiting for an hour for someone to fill up their C2, you might just go do something else?
- Stealing single boxes gets old REALLY FAST!
Simple 4.0’comes out yes if not NO but citcon will hide if for a few weeks
My home spawn location ASOP and ATC (Area18) is completely broken. I cant call any ships, land any ships after setting my regen spot somewhere else, and no access to anything I bought from the pledge store.
Good podcast guys, as usual. I want to make a couple points, the first is a meta-critique of Mike's style on the podcast. I agree with some of your sentiment, but your framing and style could use some work. Calling someone's question "stupid" is a bad look, and just because you then go on to explain your POV after the fact doesn't rectify your poor communication choices made earlier. This is coming from someone who also had to learn that lesson. IMO try retraining yourself to pick different phrases to redirect a conversation and express disagreement, rather than calling someone's opinion "dumb" or "stupid".
Secondly, regarding Croncy's question comparing this year to previous years, I have to say that while this year has been disappointing due to high expectations, they have delivered more things related to CitCon than any other year I've been part of the project. For that reason, I'm still excited for CitCon this year, but I'll go in with the expectation that we'll probably only see around 50% of what's being shown.
Other than still missing 4.0, I'm not dissatisfied with how the game has progressed in the last year. We've got better UI (though unfortunately not necessarily more functional UI), we've got fauna, we've got MM, and we've got freight elevators. Later this year we'll presumably get the Polaris, and hopefully engineering at the same time (or shortly thereafter). As always, the pace of development is slower than I'd like, but it does seem like it's speeding up.
If they want to salvage the year, increase servers to 200 players and stable. I think that would make everybody pretty happy
i honestly think foxhole is a great example for what the economy should end up looking like, pretty much everything is done by players for players, which allows for it to become truly dynamic.
Problem... there are 10 NPCs for every player.
Quanta - was supposed to be the solution.
Todd Pappy is gone from CIG, so??
Who knows.
@@lordfraybinQuanta isnt a thing from Todd Papy. Tony Z is the quanta guy. Todd Papy was the PU director
@@alexhorvath7228 Arent they both gone now?
Happy Birthday Croncy!
Last year everyone said that 2024 would make or break SC. For me, it's broken. The new FM is horrible and has killed any hope I had that the game would be fun or exciting. The more I look into SC's old content, the more I see that CIG only takes 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
I'm fine with it. It's not better, but it's also not significantly worse. Ship combat is still fun.
I’m not fine with it…
I’ve given up on them and I just get frustrated with their development. They get no more money from me or game time.
I’ll log in for a few hours on a patch to check what’s new but I Need a Fun, Functional, Nonetedious GAME to play alone and with friends. Maybe one day in the future! Maybe not… it’s up to CIG and their choices. Development, Marketing, and System choices*
I agree with this. Between the flight model, repetitive gameplay and added tedium, I can't bring myself to play star citizen.
It's just not entertaining or fun.
Just curious, what you don't like about the new FM? You dont like the limited speed or?
Dude, no offense but I'm tired of explaining it just for CIG white knights to be toxic. Watch anyone do a PVE bounty hunt before 3.23 and compare it to now. You don't need a doctorate to see how borked it is. Also, all of the reasons why MM was supposed to be better are actually worse and CIG has yet to explain themselves. It's fundamentally flawed, no matter how much they adjust the speeds and weapons.
I'm expecting theaters of war.
Along with the bmm and the 600i rework.
47:51 this why I focus on the content of Citizencon not the timelines
Are you guys gonna look at this CitizenCon with a more constructively critical eye than last year?
Why do you need to police their opinions on the game? Do you need content creators to tell you your own opinions or you're gonna get mad and pee your pants? Gonna have a cry if they don't find more things to be negative about?
@@ClowdyHowdy That's the thing they didn't have opinions.. Mike was too busy blowing loads in his shorts and crying tears over a video.
@@ClowdyHowdy I'm not policing. I asked an honest question and I'll continue asking the questions I like.
Thanks for stopping by though.
@@DaringDan You wouldn't ask unless you were trying to influence the outcome. Why else would you ask such a useless question? You don't have to play dumb and cope when your intentions are clear.
@@KA317S You afraid of giving Mike his one time per year to experience some joy? Don't worry, you get to hear him be critical of CIG for the other 50 weeks in the year. You'll be ok.
OMG I'M OLDER THAN CRONCY!!!! WTF!!!
Can they? Of course. Will they? No chance.
I always said if they somehow delivered just half of what they showed at CitCon then this year would be a success. It would take a legit miracle to do that in the next 3 months.
13:22 i’m so sorry mike. ill be much nicer to you in the future. my condolences
Chris Roberts at Citizencon 2023 said in his opening speech that Star citizen will become a drastically different expirience in the next 12 Months.
We all saw how drastically different it became😂
CIG needs to walk the walk,
enough of talking the talk
This is the best year SC has had in several years imo. I don't think it needs to be "salvaged."
Sure CIG can salvage this year if they release 4.0 and S42 but it's not going to happen. 😆 Honestly I think if they just released S42 and it was outstanding people would dismiss server meshing being a technical hurdle holding the PU back one more year.
But I don't think they were actually as close to finished with S42 as they wanted us to think last Citcon (I noticed a bunch of people on Space Tomatoes podcast not even thinking 2025 was likely anymore).
The "biggest piece of the Citizen Con puzzle" was definitely Squadron though, not 4.0. I know some people are only interested in star Citizen but as far as showing what CIG can do and where all their work went Squadron is undoubtedly bigger than 4.0. We also kind of knew about the tech holding 4.0 up and we also knew they had very few people working on the PU. Squadron was the big mystery that supposedly all the work went into.
If sq42 releases, know the community will be very vocal in many directions, want more, want 2nd sequel, who is next enemy, too short, too long etc etc... yet mmo which I assume follows along sq42 is not out yet but now dev must work on the after vanduul, SC virtual Alpha development continuum?!?!
I would be surprised if sq42 comes out at or around 4.0, nor in the state flight mode, grav leg and still professions don't exists yet. Honestly I just don't see sq42 til 2025~27 at the early of earliest but more probable 2027~30. I argue server meshing is going to take a couple of years just for stability and improvements.
Resume @1:30:00
We were backers once, and young.
I couldn’t tell you,the last time a played for,then an hour at this point I’m just waiting for 4.0
1:13:19 spot on bro. Stop wasting time and backer's money on these dumbass events while other stuff falls by the wayside and rots. Platform missions on Crusader have been broken for multiple patches now, how about we fix those and start expanding on the distro center missions or the FOB locations? The events can wait, make long term and meaningful content for us.
The new ships are already datamined
The only thing CIG knows how to get done, are time sinks. They fail at anything else... even 2014 at gamescom i asked about NPC and AI turrets and they said soon. So yeah, they know how to bend time, physicists should ask CIG how time works and how progress is defined.
TotalBiscuit was alive when this game got Kickstarted.
Was he? Didn't he did over a decade ago?
The more granular the game, (engineering, physicalised components, etc), the more network bandwidth and speed is needed to maintain functionality. We are seeing many game mechanics being nerfed to adjust for increased granularity. (Flight model being one of losers). Server meshing will help things to a point, though increased player populations will also hog much more server resources. It appears that cig are now realising the huge impact of the increasing game granularity.
Dudes, your title is a wink at soon to pledge MISC Fortune salvage ship??
Well they had better have something that makes people excited at this year's Citizencon. Even if the new ships and features never sees the light of day they had better have something that make the crowd cheer. Otherwise, it's going to be an incredibly awkward Citizencon.
MM ruined SC for many pilots, at least that aspect of it. Even for me, I dislike MM and it ruins my passion for flight. Thankfully SC is more than just flying. I just haven't found anything in game with as much depth and enjoyment as the old flight model. Moving boxes isn't fun for me. Space Combat missions aren't as fun anymore. FPS missions haven't really changed- we are still waiting on Bounty Hunting 2.0 which actually could give me a fun gameplay loop. Salvage is moving boxes. So is Mining really, eventually.
I've been trying, but every time I try and give SC another chance, they find a way to kick me when I'm down and at this point they're beating a dead horse.
Bounty Hunting 2.0 is not even in development yet, its another broken promise.
@@playakoz oh yes Bounty Hunting in slow MM will be similar to a deer-hunter sitting somewhere waiting for a target to pass around cause forget about speed and adrenalin chases... soon it will be turnbase game lol
@@yashik They want us flying WW2 aircraft speeds at this point.
Sol is in the X series...
Here is something CIG can salvage: .i.
Can they salvage this year. Well here is my expectation, i wish better but least of least....Last test did hit ~1000 players with massive, massive, massive caveats but they successfully clocked it.
I expect polaris with 4.0 and 4.0 by december.. likely ultra broken as in 3.18 but delivered nonetheless.
oh they can no problem salvage this year. with what they have in 3.24.2 they can show they put 60-70% of what they showed into our hands one way or another (live or tech preview) and help us get a little bit of perspective on how the game has actually moved forward a lot in the last year. Add to that big Squadron reveal/release date, exciting reveals from planetary v5 and the whole 1.0 vision with I would assume a similar approach they had last year to actually show more than to theorize. They probably will tempt a premature 4.0 evo in December to also mitigate the fears on it being far away from release (even though, hey, that's going to be a bumpy and long PTU cycle).
They will very likely break another funding record too.
Bumpy to say the least
12 years for one star system is a fucking joke!
are you actually stupid? Or are you just hamming it up for us right now? There's more than one star system.
@@TimOnTheNet gr8 b8 m8
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n Noy bait at all, its facts.
The fact the title even has to be from 2 of the biggest SC creators says it all …I hope they do, this is THE game for me …but man 1000+ employees and just feels like SC is an afterthought lately; feedback ignored, spectrum moderated like a deathcamp, and on and on, if it was as good as some say the majority of what we see wouldn’t be what it is …
I dont think CIG has to salvage anything. Has thwre ever been a year of star citizen where everyone enjoys the game, everything works, and we get lots of content and functionality?
I know a lot of people "feel" like CIG needs to salvage something, but the game is more polished with more features than ever.
Still not enough to get me to play it, but it seems like some of you guys forget that pre-citcon blues are a seasonal affective disorder that has been happening to star citizen fans for a decade.
There is nothing about this year for the game that is worse than any previous year. My frame rate has never been better, and maybe some of you forget what its like to not have salvage, cargo, minimaps, and everything else thats new in the game
While it is true that this pattern can be seen throughout their history, that is not the point. They have never set expectations as high as they did for this year, and they have never fallen so short. This is the issue that sets their failures of 2024 distinctly apart.
The game isnt in a bad spot, its that we are not getting new content fast enough. This year has been the most inactive ive seen both my orgs and other orgs i follow. the player base is dwindling very badly.
I don't think they can salvage anything, speaking for myself only, the way how they treat people with MM is infuriating, because it doesn't represent a 2 years of work what they presented to us and have audacity to tell us we have to wait after 4.0 so can't during those years deliver even functional fly combat is unacceptable and I'm already going to watch citizencon in an angry state because i dont' care about another sandworm or another talk about theater of wars or another date for pyro / SQ42 all I care is result either playable demo sq42 or no mercy... I will watch Asmongold on mute how he reacts to citizencon and will be posting messages "What you see is RENDER video not actual game footage" and similar things to ensure people are not misslead and missinformed ... but Your reaction I will watch with sound :) of course :)
Pretty much nothing they deliver lives up to the length of time they tease working on it. And no matter how long a feature is delayed, it doesn't mean it comes in better or more complete.
No, this year is done. We got some milk but no cookies! They definitely aren't listening to the feedback they asked us for. Slower speeds? Is a slap in the face! The ATLS money grab, is a slap in the face! What's the next slap in the face going to be?
They need to get the player base out of the habit of expecting play modes that can, in the time of a single long play session, earn enough money to buy whatever you possibly want. Using mining and salvage as an example, the amount of return on your investment and time should be such that after grinding for a good long time, you should be able to earn a pretty good living and if you add people (like an org) or efficiencies (playing extra long, investing in equipment wisely, min/maxing) you should be able to get rich, over time, not overnight. The play types that take a player to learn skills or acquire special equipment, such be able to amass profit faster than play types that simply require the player to do repetitive, low skill game play.
Narrator: .....they didn't.
I wish I could find the clip of SaltyEMike saying last year that if CIG could deliver 50% of what they showed at CitCon he would be happy. after 3.24.2, won't they have achieved that? I mean, come on.
Are you serious? They havent brought out 20% of what they promised.
50% of things might be "in", but as he said in this pod, those things were put in so half arsed it's like they only got a fraction in.
I am still waiting for the mission where Chris Roberts jumped in fire while trying to mario boots a wreckage for... if I remember data retrieval mission? So old and far away I am sad I never got to do it even though mario boots gameplay is often trash regardless the mmo
You can salvage the year by removing mm from everyone`s memory o7
i think your confusing "ppl who hate mm" with "everyone"
@@1aatlas I think you confusing pilots with fps players and amazon delivery drivers
Why do the prioritize caves so weirdly?
Because caves and wrecks are the only content they can do... there is nothing to explore in space, because CIG cannot do those.
Croncy with his maximum copium take of "GTA VI was delayed"....yea, but was GTA VI originally supposed to come out in 2016? Was GTA VI announced as feature complete last year? Come on dude.
You find dead people in caves, for a very lousy amount of money :D
More of the developers need to read up on the MDA framework!
Croncy welcome to your cracking thirties matey ❤
I'm going to be even "saltier" than Mike... and my question is... can they even salvage this game at all! And salvage it before we're all in a nursing home. Croncy just urned 30, Mike's turning 40, I just turned 50... plenty backers are older than all of us... they didn't pitch a game that was supposed to take 20 years to create... but we're well on track for that. 😆 Not to mention that, statistically speaking, gamers don't play games like they used to, the market is far too saturated to promote actual game commitment from players, and the younger you are, the less likely you are to commit to a thing like Star Citizen for the long haul. I have doubts that we'll even see a full release in my lifetime, and when/if we do, it'll be far, far less than what we expected. Fingers crossed that CIG proves me wrong!!!
You can always count on the British to do a bunch of talking without saying anything. Frosty literally says 3.24 killed sc for him and when asked why he said “well they should have worked on it sometime in the future instead of now” wtf are you even on about?
Give me NPCs
NOpe
They have outright lied to us now for years. How can you continue to be positive about the game?
No, not true, reputation works. Its just perhaps too linear? Super freakishly systemic like group or go fuck yourself, or again too limited through high repetitions?
Why do they continually down grade ships after people have spent 100s of $ on them. It's nothing fun to do anymore. What happened to the player bounties? What happened to the game period 🤔 was super fun and now damn near nothing fun about it anymore. Granted you guys can get people to come wherever you are and play but for the average person it's wack as hell out there.
I don't really see them salvaging it. Given that 3.24.2 is probably going to be in PTU up 'til close to citcon, they'll need to do an IAE patch of some sort very shortly after, there's really not time in the year to do a 4.0 cycle. Realistically, there isn't time left -now- if they started this week to do 4.0 unless it had a much quicker cycle than the other patches this year. And at the end of the day, they fell so incredibly short of what they said they were going to do; they said we'd be continuously playing things like Pyro all summer in tech preview, etc. None of that has really happened. Everything has been much more opaque than they said, they went basically radio silent on meshing for 6 months. What is there to salvage? They burned the entire year on 3.23 and the parts they cut off of it. Half the year was porting Squadron features, another half was trying to get the cargo refactor over the finish line, most of which was deliverables originally slated for 3.18. There's really nothing to do and it doesn't matter what they say at citcon, I really can't imagine being motivated or moved by citcon after last citcon vs. the year we've had.
I think if Croncy does a full comparison (or if Mike does), the citcon footage from last year is going to be pretty sobering. I rewatched a lot of it after 3.23 and the comparison between how features were presented and what we were told they would include, look like, etc. vs the way they came in is pretty rough. Very, very few citcon features have arrived to the PU -as they were presented.- Most of the ones that have are rendering things like water tech. Almost everything has been incomplete in some fundamental way that makes the "50% delivered" trackers feel deeply dishonest; maybe they've delivered a version of 50% of the features, but they've mostly delivered the most superficial ones, and many of them are only 50% "delivered" in their own right vs the way they were shown off to us. So much was faked.
22:11 Typical Mike, cries everyday on his stream about lack of things to do.. CIG tries to put things to do in the game and Mike cries why are they focusing on trying to put stuff in the game..
Do you mean the caves that have nothing in them, or just the same things as all the other caves? Woo, so much new content!
@beavschannel5217 Well Brainiac you can't put content in the cave if the fuckin cave doesn't exist now can ya?
@@KA317S like the ones they have, and still no content in them. They dug a hole, big whoop, put something in them already. Hole is not content, and if the new hole has the same stuff as the old hole, it's still not new content, it's just the old content in a different location....brainiac
it going be we need just another month 5 years later i could be wrong but the amount fluff the leaking on stuff been says not going happen for good while
o7
Ridiculous. Sure not everything they tentatively promised is in the game over the year but a large amount of things they did are in. Has there ever been a year with more progress? People make this games their whole fucking life and its unhealthy. Step back, play something else and just watch the development, play when you want.
Too many people are terminally star citizen
this patch is a buggy nightmare