Suggestions: hydraulic systems are not supposed to pump air into any system. Hydraulic fluid can not be compressed, air can be compressed. An air leak can be in the hydraulic system and not loose hydraulic fluid. Every connection is a potential leak. And yes, air can be drawn in, then once hydraulic fluid is present, the fluid can act as a seal (in one direction), because of pressure. I would look for an air leak, leaking into the system. Most likely at the controls or pump. If not a line connection, try defective O rings, or control valves defective. The system is fairly simple. Just because it's new doesn't mean that it's got put together correctly. Remember hydraulic systems DO NOT HAVE COMPRESSIBLE AIR IN THE SYSTEM. AIR CAN BE COMPRESSED, HYDRAULIC FLUID CAN NOT BE COMPRESSED! If no air is in the system, then a valve is not seating properly. That would also allow (for example) the bucket to move. If there is only hydraulic fluid in a sealed system, in order for the fluid to move, you need a source of force (a push or pull). Then you need a place for it to travel to. Once forced upon, with a place to go, a vaccum is created, nothing moves. Loop the fluid to the force, and a closed controlled system is formed. Find the air leak or the other symptom of what is called in the automotive world as blow by. Known as getting by a valve (in this case).
Wow! I've never heard of that problem til now, watching your video. I have a 24 year old New Holland compact tractor (model 1725) with a 7308 loader package. We've owned it 18-1/2 years and I've never experienced such a thing. I use the full range of motion too. Hope you discover a good solution for your tractor. That is something that would drive me nuts!
I have found this happens when operating the loader at idle introduces air as the bucket moves faster than the fluid can enter. Run the loader as you describe but get the rpms up
Thank you. I have JD 3043D doing the same thing after 36 hours on the tractor. I will try that before i call the dealer. My son in law has an RK 37 with the same issue. So NO its not just one brand.
Having same on 5210 John Deere with a 521 bucket attachment.Had previously changed all fluids& filters for simple fact it was needed,greased ALL points,same issues Aggravating to say the least but gonna try the full lift method,etc.see how it goes,do not see any leaks anywhere.Back up to the "20" & punt again,lol.Hope we all get the good fortune of resolving this
Hello. I have had the exact same problem on my Boomer 25 compact tractor, with a 105 LC loader. In cooperation with my dealer, we tried a lot of things, but nothing made it better. An old mechanic in the workshop told us that he had seen the same problem, a long time ago, but on a much larger machine. He told us to install a restriction (4-5 mm hole, 1/16") in both the lower hydraulic lines that feeds the curl cylinders. This should prevent the piston from moving too fast, when dumpung, which can cause air to enter the cylinder at the other end. We were skeptic but tried it anyway and it worked. I'll admit that it not fixed 100% but it is a lot better. Maybe it could be improved a little bit more by making the restriction a little bit smaller but for now it is ok for me. I was concerned that the restriction would change the curl speed, but it does not seem to be a problem.
That's a great idea. Especially considering "chevron" seals seal in one direction. (They don't use chevron seals anymore. They use polyurethane.) Still it shouldn't happen.
I don't have that problem with my Kubota, but I think my friend's Kubota's bucket is a little floppy. Next time we use his tractor we'll try that. I lost track of your channel, but remember when you upsized your tractor a while back. Man, you keep some clean equipment!
The air actually gets into the lines and system when you lower or dump your bucket after the engine is off. Remember to lower your bucket prior to shutting the engine off and you will reduce this a lot.
About your hydraulic squeal you have attributed to air in system....Here is the fix: Swap out your hydraulic oil with Kubota UDT2 hydraulic fluid. I don't know the mechanism of the change, but it has resolved the same issue for many owners New Holland boomer tractors. Post back on how it works for you. 👍
I have the same tractor and the same squeal when first started. Same floppy loader. I just got used to it. My older New Holland TC 26DA had zero slop. Purging is okay, but it's better to just get used to adjusting for it, imho. One thing I would like to mention that's unrelated is that the bucket that comes on this tractor is not only 15 inches wider than that one on my TC 26DA but MUCH thinner, and has less reinforcing, and if you own a pair of clamp-on pallet forks, you don't want to use them with this bucket. I use them mostly to move around a work table I made out of 2x4s which weighs around 250 pounds or so, and I wouldn't dare go any heavier than that. These buckets are easy to bend. I'll eventually try to sell the clamp-ons and get a QT set of forks if I ever want to use it for anything heavy.
I have a Workmaster 40 that does the same thing. just leave the bucket on the ground in the angle that you want and hold the control in the dump position until the pressure builds in the cylinders, then do your back dragging.
Haven't seen it on either of my kubotas. Sounds like a fairly common defect, and there's gotta be a mechanic somewhere who has figured out how to fix it. It seems like a big enough deal that the service manager's advice to live with it isn't appropriate. Also, I remember that my kubota manual recommended back-dragging with the rear of the bucket, in order to protect the cylinders.
My Massey Ferguson's 50A and 60H would load up with air and whine in the cold weather (sometimes would foam out of the reservoir). I found I was using the wrong hydraulic fluid. I think the suction line filter was too restrictive with cold, thick oil and would pull a vacuum. This caused the formation of bubbles and foaming oil. I had to drain it an put in a light 32 weight oil and it fixed the problem. But this tractor should never get air in the system. It's brand new! The suction lines are never that long and they need to be gone over with a fine toothed comb.
So far not for me on my 2 tractors, but they both have a 1 or 2 second pause near the very bottom of the bucket dump, '97 JD 770 and '22 LS MT235HE. Waiting for the hyd's to catch up I guess. Did you look at another 'tube video that kinda explains it a tiny bit better? Search for "Do you have Floppy Bucket syndrome?" it makes sense with the manufacturers using the same cylinders on different tractors with different hydraulics?
I’ve noticed this to be much worse if you turn the tractor off in a position where things can move. For example you turn it off with the 3 point up so it can creep down later. Or more importantly the loader. If you turn it off where as the loader arms creep down and settle that it will put pressure on the bucket and cause it to creep and roll the bucket to curl or dump. As it’s forcing that bucket to roll it can pull air in the other side as it’s pushing fluid out. I’ve found if I curl my bucket down like I was going to back drag and set the loader down on it so the bucket isn’t trying to roll to a curl nor a dump then it nearly Eliminates the air totally. I have a Kubota.
My Kubota BX23S has this issue, apparently dumping too fast with too low RPM will introduce air. Rev engine above 2000 and fully dump/curl at a low rate should get rid of most of it.
i have that same tractor with that same loader my tractor does not do that 2018 workmaster 40 it will pick up the front wheels and the cylinders hold up fine never herd mine make that noise
hi, i have bx23s doing the same thing, bucket floats about 24 inches on th back drag.this didn't do this in the first year i had it. the 2014 tractor i had first didn't do it at all in 5 years of service. this 2020 started doing this after the 1st year.. its in the shop at this momint. i'll try and let you know how it works out. not happy with the explations i've been gettig.
Another choice is swap out parts, one at a time. Use a different brand name to be sure not to replace possible one defective part, for the same possible defective new part, made the same as the one removed because it came from the same place and the manufacturer may not have realized the fault or maybe a screw up in shipping the same bad instead of the corrected newest version. Costly but sure to cure. Parts and installation must both be equally important and done well.
Trade that thing in on a tractor that matches your land plane. You will be much happier. The only way air gets into a closed system is low fluid level or a leak. That’s not normal.
That's crap answer, I'd find a different Dealer that's avoiding a warranty claim by slow walking it until it's up. I would it there and demand that they explain how that's normal. That's nearly not even usable. Makes me not want a New Holland.
As one who has the same tractor & situation, for me, it's pretty easy to get used to just allowing for it. I back drag quite a bit, especially in snow removal season and it's not really that big a deal. And since OFFRD and I have identical tractors and the identical situation, it's likely normal for this tractor.. IT did take some getting used to this tractor not being able to curl and raise or lower simultaneously as my old little boomer did, but that's normal for this design and the "economy" model tractors in most brands.
This is a lot of miss information it’s easy when you don’t understand the fundamentals of a system and how it works. Do a little bit more research and come up with some facts from experience to people and you’ll figure this out I am not going to try and add my two cents other than be careful of the miss information.
Trade it in go Green no more problems of air and floppy buckets 🤷🏻♂️ my John Deere holds the bucket , no play , so that guy is feeding you a line of B.S. go try a JD out at a dealer you will see for yourself .
@@4-LOW yea but did ya read the whole comment? His other JD has never done that .. his 2022 with 36 hours does it .. which tells me maybe its a factory cost cutting measure maybe they are taking , cause i know of at least 20 people with JD and have never had that issue .. my neighbors BX does it tho .. so must be a cheaper hydro system to save money is my guess 🤷
@@stephendevore1800 ya know im wondering if it is happening on new or almost nee tractors if it is a cost cutting modification they are all making in the hydro system to save money? Maybe cheeping out on the hydro system 🤷 sounds logical to me , they always wanna give ya less for more . All i know is my tractor will lift the whole machine and keep blade angel no matter where i set the angel to
Suggestions: hydraulic systems are not supposed to pump air into any system. Hydraulic fluid can not be compressed, air can be compressed. An air leak can be in the hydraulic system and not loose hydraulic fluid. Every connection is a potential leak. And yes, air can be drawn in, then once hydraulic fluid is present, the fluid can act as a seal (in one direction), because of pressure.
I would look for an air leak, leaking into the system. Most likely at the controls or pump. If not a line connection, try defective O rings, or control valves defective. The system is fairly simple. Just because it's new doesn't mean that it's got put together correctly.
Remember hydraulic systems DO NOT HAVE COMPRESSIBLE AIR IN THE SYSTEM. AIR CAN BE COMPRESSED, HYDRAULIC FLUID CAN NOT BE COMPRESSED! If no air is in the system, then a valve is not seating properly. That would also allow (for example) the bucket to move. If there is only hydraulic fluid in a sealed system, in order for the fluid to move, you need a source of force (a push or pull). Then you need a place for it to travel to. Once forced upon, with a place to go, a vaccum is created, nothing moves. Loop the fluid to the force, and a closed controlled system is formed.
Find the air leak or the other symptom of what is called in the automotive world as blow by. Known as getting by a valve (in this case).
Wow! I've never heard of that problem til now, watching your video. I have a 24 year old New Holland compact tractor (model 1725) with a 7308 loader package. We've owned it 18-1/2 years and I've never experienced such a thing. I use the full range of motion too. Hope you discover a good solution for your tractor. That is something that would drive me nuts!
I have found this happens when operating the loader at idle introduces air as the bucket moves faster than the fluid can enter. Run the loader as you describe but get the rpms up
Thank you. I have JD 3043D doing the same thing after 36 hours on the tractor. I will try that before i call the dealer. My son in law has an RK 37 with the same issue. So NO its not just one brand.
Having same on 5210 John Deere with a 521 bucket attachment.Had previously changed all fluids& filters for simple fact it was needed,greased ALL points,same issues Aggravating to say the least but gonna try the full lift method,etc.see how it goes,do not see any leaks anywhere.Back up to the "20" & punt again,lol.Hope we all get the good fortune of resolving this
Hello.
I have had the exact same problem on my Boomer 25 compact tractor, with a 105 LC loader. In cooperation with my dealer, we tried a lot of things, but nothing made it better. An old mechanic in the workshop told us that he had seen the same problem, a long time ago, but on a much larger machine. He told us to install a restriction (4-5 mm hole, 1/16") in both the lower hydraulic lines that feeds the curl cylinders. This should prevent the piston from moving too fast, when dumpung, which can cause air to enter the cylinder at the other end. We were skeptic but tried it anyway and it worked. I'll admit that it not fixed 100% but it is a lot better. Maybe it could be improved a little bit more by making the restriction a little bit smaller but for now it is ok for me. I was concerned that the restriction would change the curl speed, but it does not seem to be a problem.
That's a great idea. Especially considering "chevron" seals seal in one direction. (They don't use chevron seals anymore. They use polyurethane.) Still it shouldn't happen.
I don't have that problem with my Kubota, but I think my friend's Kubota's bucket is a little floppy. Next time we use his tractor we'll try that. I lost track of your channel, but remember when you upsized your tractor a while back. Man, you keep some clean equipment!
The air actually gets into the lines and system when you lower or dump your bucket after the engine is off. Remember to lower your bucket prior to shutting the engine off and you will reduce this a lot.
About your hydraulic squeal you have attributed to air in system....Here is the fix: Swap out your hydraulic oil with Kubota UDT2 hydraulic fluid. I don't know the mechanism of the change, but it has resolved the same issue for many owners New Holland boomer tractors. Post back on how it works for you. 👍
I have the same tractor and the same squeal when first started.
Same floppy loader. I just got used to it. My older New Holland TC 26DA had zero slop.
Purging is okay, but it's better to just get used to adjusting for it, imho. One thing I would like to mention that's unrelated is that the bucket that comes on this tractor is not only 15 inches wider than that one on my TC 26DA but MUCH thinner, and has less reinforcing, and if you own a pair of clamp-on pallet forks, you don't want to use them with this bucket. I use them mostly to move around a work table I made out of 2x4s which weighs around 250 pounds or so, and I wouldn't dare go any heavier than that. These buckets are easy to bend. I'll eventually try to sell the clamp-ons and get a QT set of forks if I ever want to use it for anything heavy.
I've got a floppy bucket on my WM35 but I've never had that squeak noise.
I have a Workmaster 40 that does the same thing. just leave the bucket on the ground in the angle that you want and hold the control in the dump position until the pressure builds in the cylinders, then do your back dragging.
Haven't seen it on either of my kubotas. Sounds like a fairly common defect, and there's gotta be a mechanic somewhere who has figured out how to fix it. It seems like a big enough deal that the service manager's advice to live with it isn't appropriate. Also, I remember that my kubota manual recommended back-dragging with the rear of the bucket, in order to protect the cylinders.
My Massey Ferguson's 50A and 60H would load up with air and whine in the cold weather (sometimes would foam out of the reservoir). I found I was using the wrong hydraulic fluid. I think the suction line filter was too restrictive with cold, thick oil and would pull a vacuum. This caused the formation of bubbles and foaming oil. I had to drain it an put in a light 32 weight oil and it fixed the problem. But this tractor should never get air in the system. It's brand new! The suction lines are never that long and they need to be gone over with a fine toothed comb.
You got the correct fluid? Prolly foaming and getting air in the cylinders after shut down. Service manager gave you an excuse cuz he don’t know
So far not for me on my 2 tractors, but they both have a 1 or 2 second pause near the very bottom of the bucket dump, '97 JD 770 and '22 LS MT235HE. Waiting for the hyd's to catch up I guess. Did you look at another 'tube video that kinda explains it a tiny bit better? Search for "Do you have Floppy Bucket syndrome?" it makes sense with the manufacturers using the same cylinders on different tractors with different hydraulics?
Check front inner drive shaft for rubbing and out of round for noise.
I'm familiar with the new Holland tractor hydrolic,
I have one , I have the same issue
I’ve noticed this to be much worse if you turn the tractor off in a position where things can move. For example you turn it off with the 3 point up so it can creep down later. Or more importantly the loader. If you turn it off where as the loader arms creep down and settle that it will put pressure on the bucket and cause it to creep and roll the bucket to curl or dump. As it’s forcing that bucket to roll it can pull air in the other side as it’s pushing fluid out. I’ve found if I curl my bucket down like I was going to back drag and set the loader down on it so the bucket isn’t trying to roll to a curl nor a dump then it nearly Eliminates the air totally. I have a Kubota.
The fix is to use an anti foaming agent or switch to J20C spec fluid that has a wet brake compatibility.
My Kubota BX23S has this issue, apparently dumping too fast with too low RPM will introduce air. Rev engine above 2000 and fully dump/curl at a low rate should get rid of most of it.
i have that same tractor with that same loader my tractor does not do that 2018 workmaster 40 it will pick up the front wheels and the cylinders hold up fine never herd mine make that noise
Would the dealer replace the cylinders ? Would that fix the issue?
hi, i have bx23s doing the same thing, bucket floats about 24 inches on th back drag.this didn't do this in the first year i had it. the 2014 tractor i had first didn't do it at all in 5 years of service. this 2020 started doing this after the 1st year.. its in the shop at this momint. i'll try and let you know how it works out. not happy with the explations i've been gettig.
Another choice is swap out parts, one at a time. Use a different brand name to be sure not to replace possible one defective part, for the same possible defective new part, made the same as the one removed because it came from the same place and the manufacturer may not have realized the fault or maybe a screw up in shipping the same bad instead of the corrected newest version. Costly but sure to cure. Parts and installation must both be equally important and done well.
Trade that thing in on a tractor that matches your land plane. You will be much happier. The only way air gets into a closed system is low fluid level or a leak. That’s not normal.
Hello, where did you buy the bumper for this tractor? Thanks!
I have that floppy bucket issue on my Kioti CS2220 sub compact
That's crap answer, I'd find a different Dealer that's avoiding a warranty claim by slow walking it until it's up. I would it there and demand that they explain how that's normal. That's nearly not even usable. Makes me not want a New Holland.
Agreed, garbage answer.
As one who has the same tractor & situation, for me, it's pretty easy to get used to just allowing for it. I back drag quite a bit, especially in snow removal season and it's not really that big a deal. And since OFFRD and I have identical tractors and the identical situation, it's likely normal for this tractor..
IT did take some getting used to this tractor not being able to curl and raise or lower simultaneously as my old little boomer did, but that's normal for this design and the "economy" model tractors in most brands.
Yes I have a new holland 7308 and had a leaking cylinder on the bucket and after fixing that it got air in the system and yes i can not get it out .
How do you get it out
You have an air leak. There should be no air in a hydraulic system period.
Repack both inner pistons and problem is gone
Watch the front wheel bearings for wear
You have bad packings in one of the tilt cylinders. I have had this problem many times before!
This is a lot of miss information it’s easy when you don’t understand the fundamentals of a system and how it works. Do a little bit more research and come up with some facts from experience to people and you’ll figure this out I am not going to try and add my two cents other than be careful of the miss information.
That sucks
Trade it in go Green no more problems of air and floppy buckets 🤷🏻♂️ my John Deere holds the bucket , no play , so that guy is feeding you a line of B.S. go try a JD out at a dealer you will see for yourself .
Want to bet. 2022 JD 3043D with 36 hours on it doing the same thing. My other JD 3039R has never done that.
I guy left a comment in here today that his John Deere is doing the same thing so.....
@@4-LOW yea but did ya read the whole comment? His other JD has never done that .. his 2022 with 36 hours does it .. which tells me maybe its a factory cost cutting measure maybe they are taking , cause i know of at least 20 people with JD and have never had that issue .. my neighbors BX does it tho .. so must be a cheaper hydro system to save money is my guess 🤷
@@stephendevore1800 ya know im wondering if it is happening on new or almost nee tractors if it is a cost cutting modification they are all making in the hydro system to save money? Maybe cheeping out on the hydro system 🤷 sounds logical to me , they always wanna give ya less for more . All i know is my tractor will lift the whole machine and keep blade angel no matter where i set the angel to
@@PhatboyHD88You will catch up eventually!