*Many of you guys reported this incident via email and Twitter so here it is!* I hope this simple visualization helps you understand what's going on there. Thankfully United rejected and American stopped right before entering the runway.
Let me disagree with that. First of all, I did not know about this incident before. I might not be very informed but I think there are a lot of people in my situation, for which this is something "new". Then, I think people come here for the specific format of the content, it's something particular to VASAviation's format that makes it interesting and way more enjoyable than just watching this on any news channels hours after it happened. Also, I think most of the subscribers have at least some interest in aviation stuff, so I see this community more as a forum to share opinions on a particular incident. Air crash investigations show is analyzing incidents which happened dozens of years ago...yet they are still a successful show.
It has to be reported anyway because it's a rejected takeoff. So the FAA will find out why it happened after reviewing the tapes. We have to report an aborted takeoff no matter how small of an issue it is. Most commonly is pipers that don't have their door shut and abort the takeoff.
@@johnbrickel6446 oh, just throwing the info out there. I get it was a joke but wasn't sure if people actually knew that it will get reported officially.
@@slweek We are SUPPOSED to always check before crossing a runway. Not everyone does, in fact a significant percentage don't, especially when it's your job to cross runways all day every day so...
@@ProfessorDIY um .. the two pilots cleared to cross the runway didn't catch that the atc cleared a plane to take off the same runway. Only the pilot taking off caught it... So... 25% paying attention?
Computer rReally?, one taxied across, the other started then, stopped again short of the runway. The first most likely never saw the aircraft bearing down on him nor realized that an aircraft was cleared for takeoff while he was on it. AAL, probably saw it or realized what had transpired and hit the brakes.
This was all done really professionally, the pilots acted properly and stopped, nobody got butthurt and started blaming each other. Everyone just got back to work and carried on in a responsible fashion. Really nice to see
I'm impressed by how professional the United pilots were. This was a fatal mistake and they were still polite. For comparison I exhaust all the swear words in my vocabulary if the guy in the other lane crosses too near in front of me while I'm driving. Kudos to United pilots.
When the ATC told UAL326 to line up and wait he also said that he was going to have multiple aircraft cross the runway, then a little later gave him clearance to take off, and then after that gave the other two aircraft clearance to cross the runway. It seems to me that he he inadvertently cleared 326 for takeoff, especially since he asked 326 if he gave them clearance after they aborted. I can just imagine the feeling in the pit of his stomach when he realized what he had done.
I also believe it must have been an unintentional clearance , like a slip of the tongue, he didn't even give the wind indications. Human brain can play tricks sometimes...
It really must have been a terrible feeling. Can't judge the guy without knowing the full situation and any possible(?) mitigating circumstances, but I know I would flat out make a terrible ATC.
Marco Casati If you listen carefully, he set himself up for this error. He gave the wind info when he had them line up and wait. So the gray matter says, yep, they have the wind info, clear them for tkoff. If you have a sequence for doing a task, and you change it, errors are sure to happen.
IncandescentWithRage Never underestimate yourself! With the proper attitude and training anyone can be what they wish to be. This was an uncalled for error by the controller. He knows better, has done it correctly thousands of times, it just takes one second of inattention, and you can have a disaster.
@@rubenvillanueva622 :) Thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty damn good at what I do professionally, but I know I would be bad at ATC work. Keeping it as concise and professional as you usually hear from ATC during an emergency, while busily handing off other aircraft.. definitely better left to those suited to the job.
Compare to the Airport income flows, it's nothing. The management just simply stingy. Source came from a friend who work the Airport's financial department.
There are shortages in air traffic controllers, for example it's on the 'skills shortage list'(easier visa application for immigrants) here in NZ. Not surprising really, it seems super stressful with little reward(other than wages) to me.
Didn't know the term scenario but "situational awareness" is called. But yes, you're absolutely right. Both AAL and SKW should have denied the crossing and have said "hey, we're not moving. Do you know you just instructed an aircraft to take off on this same runway?".
The problem with that is that major airports have a ground frequency separate from tower frequency; therefore the airplanes taxiing don't always necessarily hear takeoff clearances. It is odd that in this case the voice of the controller sounds the same. Was he actually working both ground and tower? At one point one of the taxiing aircraft even asked if they were on the right frequency, I assume because they were getting taxi, takeoff, and handoff instructions on one freq..
Jay Zenitram at most airports the active runway crossings are cleared by the tower controller and the frequency change to ground is made once clear of the active.
radodrill Correct. This is true for IAD. However, there are also multiple tower frequencies, so the switch to 19C tower may have been made after United's takeoff clearance was issued.
That shows how important team work between the ATC and pilots is. We all are just humans and doing mistakes from time to time so it’s important to pay attention to everything what happen around us, especially in the aviation but of course everywhere else too.
connor gibson Its obviously a mistake dude. yeah he put lives in danger but handling multiple aircrafts all at the same time all by yourself is definitely frustrating and mistakes come with the job. You cant even expect the most experienced controller to be perfect every single time hes handling multiple aircrafts in a small area.
Can't believe how professional the ATC was after he realised the mistake. It was at least a minute and a half before the end of the broadcast. I'd have had a complete meltdown but then I realise the enormity and consequences of such mistakes (not in aviation). I hope he can put this mistake behind him and continue his career. No matter how good you are at your job, once you "know" the responsibility it carries it's different. You cannot learn this, or be told this, it's an experience, one you'll never understand unless you've been there or witnessed it close up. Kudos to the pilots who averted the imminent disaster.
Agreed, Tower guy was talking before his brain processed the information. ATC is a difficult job with difficult requirements, hopefully this makes him slow down.
Listening to this reminds me how I could never be an ATC. My brain works much better in serial mode than parallel. Hats off to the UAL326 crew! Saved a lot of lives that day.
When I was in the Air Force, I knew an ATC. He said it was one of the most stressful jobs a man could ever have. After about 12 years of service he switched AFSCs (career field) and had to have a pacemaker put it. He would explain close calls and bad days. It's a relatively thankless job. I feel bad for the guys with bad days. They do sanity checks before shifts for obvious reasons. Bad day at home? No duty for you son. Do some paperwork, study, or anything else besides manning the console.
Yeah I can imagine they try to ensure everyone is mentally with it because a very simple mistake has the potential to have dire consequences. That's why I've been watching these videos the last six months is because I've wanted to understand and gain an appreciation for the "behind-the-scenes" work that goes into something like air travel because it's a much deeper process than the average traveller realizes with obviously a hell of a lot on the line if something goes wrong.
I know I could not be ATC. I hope all controllers realize when they are unable to keep track of everything and everybody. Tough job. Thanks to all ATC and Pilots.
I THOUGHT THAT TOO. tOUGH JOB THAT THOUGH, STILL THINK HE WAS VERY PROFESSIONAL AFTER THE INCIDENT. iD HAVE LIKED TOI HAVE SEEN HIM TAKEN OFF DUTY QUICKER THOUGH. iM GUESSING THEY WERE SHORT STAFFED THAT DAY - Bollosck, just realised i did that all in caps...... im not changing it now though! see, we all make mistakes!
Barry Sabahat Doctors , ship captains, train engineers, pilots they all do it. You train yourself to handle the situations that come up and continue.I do respect your honesty, stating you would not want to do it.
I like the idea they’re trying to get us to focus on at flight school...ATC make mistakes. You are the pilot in command and if something seems wrong act on it. Ive only flown for a few years and had several issues with tower messing up.
No it's rather clear you haven't. Towers don't mess up often, they're very competent and rigorously trained. In fact it's because this is such a rare incident that it's an interesting video. Very unlikely you were handed the short end of the stick 'several times'. Either that or you're making things up, which is likely considering you misrepresented the ATC's role in the Tenerife incident on your prior comment.
Just like my dad always taught me. Just because someone’s got their blinker on... Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t wait for them to actually make the turn before pulling out in front. You never know whose actually paying attention to what they’re doing.
I taught my kids the same thing - if there's a little blinking light on the corner of a car, the only thing that tells you for certain is that there's a little blinking light on the corner of the car.
Not sure how this applies to a scenario like this. Runway 19C is 11,500 feet long. The distance from the end of the runway where the United plane started their takeoff roll to intersection W2 is a bit over 7,200 feet, or ~1.4 miles. The American plane at W2 also never actually entered the runway. The plane at W4 that entered the runway, *after* the United plane started their takeoff roll, and was around 1.6 miles down the runway. The only way to catch this would have been if one of the pilots noticed ATC's error on the radio. The driving analogy would be if a traffic light malfunctioned and gave a green light to both through traffic and cross-traffic.
Please note that we have added a consequence for failure. Any contact between aircraft will result in an 'unsatisfactory' mark on your official testing record, followed by death. Good luck!
Dulles is quite busy, regardless of time of day... Kudos to the pilots who were on their 'A' game that day. Two questions: 1) How frequently does this happen at busy international airports in America, and 2) what happens to the controller when he/she makes this type of dangerous mistake?
they file paperwork, the people one rung above them figure out what caused the error, and steps are taken to reduce the chances of the same error happening again. punishments are rare, as nobody works well under threat of immediate termination.
"Did I just give you clearance?" It's very difficult to imagine the pilot saying: "No, but I thought I'd take off anyway". I guess it wasn't a real question but an inner monologue where ATC was trying to figure out exactly where his train of thought had left the station, to mix metaphors.
Question for the airline pilots: are you specifically trained to listen to any radio broadcasts concerning your assigned runway? For instance, if you get a "line up and wait 19C" or "22B cleared for take off", is it a specific part of your training to then listen to other calls for other aircraft that concern 19C/22B? And is that then also tested as a scenario in the simulator? If not, this case would be a prime candidate.
I wasn't specifically trained to but common sense dictates that you listen to anything that uses your runway or taxiway number/letter. Same goes with enroute controllers, listen to anything with your altitude. But often, this is nearly impossible. When a big plane is on the ground, it can be more than a bit busy in the cockpit. This is one instance where an excessively long checklist can cause more hazard than it mitigates. Small plane checklists (if there even are any) are much shorter so you have time to listen to the radio.
@@rrknl5187 I'm sure there was a Mayday episode where they determined that the prime contributing factor was a badly-designed checklist. I can't remember what the actual incident was, but the CVR indicated that the pilots were working through a checklist and when the NTSB got hold of a copy of said checklist, they found that the single thing the pilots needed to actually to in order to recover was buried on about page three, after a whole bunch of minor junk - and every time the pilots tried something suggested by said checklist, they'd have to start the whole thing over from the beginning, so they never had a chance to find the actual thing that would have fixed the problem.
@@Teverell Some checklists are so idiotic that after going through them for the 500th time, you sort of read them and not think about what is listed. It becomes more of a matter of 'lets get through this' rather than actually focusing on the individual items. It's the same way with excessive automation.......it's supposed to be a safety feature but when it reduces pilots to nothing more than slaves to computers or procedures, bad things will happen. And the safety device ends up becoming a serious hazard. I guess I'm too much 'old school', I don't have much faith in checklists or computers, I'd rather rely on my airmanship skills and experience. This doesn't mean that I won't use checklists and computers, I absolutely do but I won't let them be the only thing responsible for flying the plane.
@@rrknl5187 Yeah. This particular one was back in the 70s or 80s, I think (there seemed to be a LOT of incidents/accidents in the 70s and 80s!). From what I remember, the NTSB/FAA redesigned checklists to be more of a flow-chart - but anything you do multiple times becomes a habit, and it's possible to think something was done, when it wasn't, which I think was a contributing factor in Northwest Flight 255 not having slats and flaps configured properly. As for technology... I'm not a pilot, but as an observer and passenger... I think I prefer the Boeing idea where the pilots still have a yoke, to the Airbus' sidestick and computer automation. *All* the 100% survivor crash stories I'm aware of (the Hudson landing, TACA flight110 and the Gimli Glider) were down to piloting skills. Even United Flight 232 had 185 survivors because of the pilots. Which isn't to say pilot error can't happen, of course it can, but when did a computer ever land a plane safely on a river or a levee or glide safely to a disused airfield? You pilots, and all the ATC guys, do a fantastic job that I couldn't do. Thank you!
Eduardo Banda No not so lucky, he will have to live with this forever, Knowing that he nearly wiped out three planes with passengers. He will always feel that he is being watched by his colleagues and not in the same class as them. His future performance, should he remain in the field, will definitely be different, He will tend to be overly cautious and self question his actions.
I agree, you could tell in his voice he knew he had stuffed up. As you say he now has to live with this forever, And regardless of outcome he will always be judged, and yes he will also be doubly hard on himself. Which by itself can produce mistakes being overly cautious. It would not surprise me regardless of outcome he goes for a different career. In a way although a disaster was averted. It should have been averted a lot sooner... Several things of note. 1. Why did UAL 326 not say. Hey Tower you cleared us for takeoff, do you still want us to take off? when I would assume just like the other two aircraft they heard to permission to cross the runway. Also from the other two aircraft who were and are listening to same frequency AAL 2784 and SKW3721 they both would have heard the Take off clearance for the other aircraft. They would not have seen an aircraft go past their nose taking off. So why did neither of them question it? At least 2784 stopped but that alone was not good why did they not speak up? It is very fine to say after that event oh yes we stopped? why not speak up before and stop it before it potentially becomes a disaster. In my opinion the two crossing aircraft were wrong as well as the ATC. Reason being. The aircraft was given takeoff clearance BEFORE they were given clearance to cross.
Greg L Excellent!, Greg. Agree 100%, with your comment. I still cannot get over the fact no one spoke up! Even in the tower, some one had to see this developing and speak out.
Hiya Ruben Villanueva, agree with you. The fact that AAL 2784 stopped means they at least heard the takeoff clearance for UAL 326. That flight crew at least cannot now turn around and say "we did not hear the take off" well obviously they did. As they had stopped. A runway is a long thing and not all runways are flat. The takeoff aircraft is at start of takeoff so is opposite end to those two crossing aircraft. It is possible with the length of the runway they would not see that takeoff aircraft. My other thought is would not that runway holding have REL ??? if so if there is an aircraft on the runway would they not have been red?? in that am not sure of that layout there... but is that not the idea of REL is they indicate takeoff and landing aircraft on that runway? in which case regardless of what ATC says you do not cross while red?
The SKW3721 pilots were very unaware aswell. It looked like AAL2784 was aware as they were cleared to cross but never did until the United cleared the rwy. Im very surprised nobody questioned that at all! Awesome video showing the intensity of awareness a pilot has to have during every phase of flight.
@@jgpacheco21 true. That shows that they're on the ball paying attention and not blindly following the ATC directions. Nobody wants another Tenerife disaster.
I heard the controller was relieved after this incident. Personally. I can't imagine the stress of a work environment where a brief lapse in attention like this could cost someone their career.
Sounds to me like the controller was trying to do too much in too short a time. Was he under that much pressure? Nice work by the pilots though, not just blindly following instructions. This is why the old adage "More haste, less speed" is so true.
So SKW didn't seem to have noticed a plane was just given takeoff clearance on the runway they were told to cross, AAL did seem to have noticed but didn't bother telling anyone (which is worse in my opinion) and UAL also didn't notice they were told to cross until SKW was already on the runway. Controllers make mistakes sometimes. I get that pilots don't intensively listen to all the messages not meant for them, but wouldn't/shouldn't you notice when the runway you're taking off from or are about to cross is mentioned by the controller?
All my videos - most of them at least - are made to learn from them. In my opinion, the conclusion we have to take from this incident is SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Be always aware on frequency and not only paying attention to our callsign and our instructions. Very important to know what other airplanes around you are doing.
There were several comms between the take off clearance and the crossing clearances. It's easy to not register the conflicting comms if you're the crossing aircraft and busy with post landing details and navigation. It's not to say they shouldn't have caught it, but in this instance, and assuming we're hearing the entire sequence, I'd give the pilots a slight slap on the wrist and ATC a giant smack upside of the head followed by moving him to a quieter airport somewhere in Alaska or Montana. He was sloppy as all hell in his talk anyway - much too far off standard, IMO.
Ultimately it was the controller that gave the incorrect takeoff clearance, but he did tell United that there would be a couple of planes crossing ahead before they take off. Would they have had the chance to see that nobody crossed or would they not have been looking down the runway at that time?
Justin - there's every chance the UAL wouldn;t be able to see due to weather so, imho, it's reasonable for them to to have taken their takeoff clearance as the controller is the one with the eyes across the entire field ( figuratively with the radar/ equipment).
Huge respect to the pilots here. They're *already* juggling a hundred different things in the cockpit, to pick up on those things and act as extra eyes for the tower is a skill in of itself.
That could have been two to three planes full of passengers killed and injured, especially if visibility was bad and they could not see the whole runway. Scary.
Small question here: at 0:45, a "turn right hdg 230" is issued for UAL326. How common is it to do so on the ground, while taxiing? Never heard it before like that. (Or is it meant as vector after takeoff?)
If you're asking me that was task saturated automatism kicking in for the controller. He asked to line up and wait and advised he'd have 2 AC crossing prior to take off. He then took his attention to the other two. probably while clearing he noticed 326 sitting on the runway and his brain automatically issued a take-off clearance while his mind was on other aircraft already. Basically the same effect as when you read a book and your mind drifts but your eyes continue to scan the lines... I hope he didn't get completely layed off because they gotta get that workload decreased somehow.
I thought when a controller made a serious mistake they were relieved of duty on frequency and another controller takes over. I know this is the standard procedure in the UK. Is it true for the US as well?
how about ATC gets involved in developing some type of red / green traffic light system......whenever a plane is cleared for take off or on short final, the taxi / runway access lights becomes red ...........
Looks like a typical VATSIM tower clearance. They won't separate you from other traffic, but they'll DAMN well make sure you're on the correct SID and routing.
Cristian Popa Certainly, the pilots will file a Hazard Report, and the controller had to notify the watch supervisor, so the tapes can be pulled, until the start of the investigation. Possibly, he was also relieved from that control position for the remainder of the shift, pending the review.
Ruben Villanueva Controllers have a form that they can fill out that makes sure they aren't punished. They get retrained and as long as it doesn't happen again, all is ok. Pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, dispatchers, etc all have similar forms. They are called ASAP forms. They are called something similar with ATC.
Joseph Dale Thank you for that, Dale. It must be something new. I do recall a time when pilots were afraid to report flight deviations or near misses, fearing punishment from the FAA or their own company. Then they came out with an amnesty program. Wow, did the reports flow in! It was a good thing, for more information was obtained and used to improve the system. In this situation, the tapes will show what actually happened. At the minimum, a retraining period will most likely be given, If his prior performance evaluations are clean. I would have to seek more info on that "controller non punishment" form. Will post any info I get.
sweinberge Yes, , ATC and aviation, in general have come along way. I have reviewed accident and incident reports, and from each a short lesson could be learned.
Joseph Dale Hi Joseph, when I read your comment I was a bit surprised. So I contacted a very knowledgable friend who just retired from The FAA, and asked him about, this. We had a long talk as to when, why and how it was implemented. I do agree with most of it. Perhaps punishment, is not the correct word. A controller is not punished, or whatever. Most often, retraining is given so the controller can get back up to speed. Of course this will be annotated on his file. Thank you, for your input, hope to see more of your comments in the future.
Ok, I'm NOT a pilot but are all 3 aircraft on the same freq? If so, wondering why the other 2 aircraft didn't hear the take-off clearance for the United flight before accepting directions to cross the active runway!
Do they have to check fuel and brakes after rejecting a takeoff and is that what they mentioned they had to 'redo'? I guess they have some checklists to do before any takeoff but in certain rejected takeoffs is there a chance that they would have to add any more fuel? Hope everyone's doing good.
Wow, totally huge screwup by the controller. Glad the pilots all were wide awake! I used to be the guy copying those incident tapes at SLC ARTCC 25 yrs ago.
Thank goodness UAL326 didn't get too much speed up! IAD is a home airport of mine too. I've flown through there as a passenger several times. Didn't know this happened until the time of this comment!
Question for the rule nerds: Would it be an appropriate use of "pan pan" if United was already past v1 and heard crossing clearances being given? As in: TWR - AAL2784, taxi to the gate via Y7 and C, cross rwy 19C UAL - PAN PAN PAN, do not cross, we are on takeoff run on 19C!
Hi there, It's interesting that thing you suggest. Assuming you know that V1 is decision speed (past V1 is a takeoff yes or yes, no matter what - except super major failures), I think that could be a way of letting the other pilots know there's an aircrat rolling down. Anyway, in my opinion, this video is all about situational awareness. American and Skywest should have realized a United had been cleared for takeoff seconds earlier.
I agree, the bigger lesson here is awareness. As far as I know, there are some airlines that require their pilots to verbalise "left side clear" and "right side clear" respectively EVERY TIME they enter or cross a runway, so they don't forget to check. But kudos to the United pilot for being on top of it and rejecting T/O because of crossing clearances on his runway!
Imo, the call should ALWAYS be „UAL326, Cleared for takeoff on (RW) 34.“ with emphasizing „takeoff“ while speaking. That way ALL pilots on frequency can listen to that, and if it’s the only thing they listen to. It is the most dangerous call on the airport, and not that often that not all pilots could watch out for.
First thing to do...immediately change the controller...he needs a rest, a debriefing, a safety report, few days off. Everyone makes mistakes, but "stay with me ...you are cleared again for take-off" is simply UNSAFE.
Question: Is there automation in use, or on the horizon, for preventing this sort of incident and potential accident from occurring in the future? Mutual exclusion resources (items that are so critical, only one user at a time may access, for very brief periods) have been around since 1965. Runways and high speed taxiways would seem to fit this definition. If “Cleared For Takeoff”/“Cleared For Landing” were issued as systems command rather than a verbal command. The opportunity for ATC or PIC to forget or misunderstand would be removed. FMS could be restricted to prevent the aircraft from entering a takeoff/landing until the clearance signal is received. Such a system could be extended to encompass entry into or crossing of such critical resources by low speed aircraft as well. (There may be excellent reasons why we don’t do this already. I was just curious.)
Takeoff clearance absolutely requires nothing else to be on the runway, landing clearance does not. Landing clearances are typically given when the plane is still several miles out, often with other landings/takeoffs/crossings to happen first, especially at the busiest airports. The runway needs to be clear when the plane reaches decision height, the point where it has to decide whether to land or go around.
@@KingdaToro This is only true for the US though. In other parts of the world, landing clearance follows the same pricinciple and only given when the runway is and will be completely empty. (seems to always create a fun comment-war - EU commenters cite safety, US commenters cite capacity increase)
Interesting - I've heard other TH-cam videos about this previously but had not realized they told TWO planes to cross in front of them on the runway. I do like your graphics, makes it much easier to follow everything and tell what I should be listening for!
As a complete layperson, the tenerife disaster was on thick fog - had the visibility been poor, this really could have been a disaster as it relied on the pilots being able to see the traffic, or would fog have been handled differently?
Haven't seen any comments on Runway Status Lights at W2 and W4 kicking in. With departing traffic rolling on the runway both crews crossing the runway downfield should have seen RELs light red. No mention of that, though. Why?
I have nothing but respect for ATC, and I have no less respect for this gentleman listening to him make a mistake, even a mistake with such serious potential consequences. The expectations we place on these workers is irresponsible, we KNOW that human error is inevitable. I couldn’t be more grateful that this came to a safe conclusion, and I’m impressed by how calm everyone stayed
Some how I feel if the error were reversed, the pilot would have been instructed to take down a number. If it had been foggy it could have been a Tenerife style disaster.
Although not mentioned in this recording, there's no doubt the pilots would have filed a report on this incident. The controller didn't simply get to shake his shoulders and move on without facing the music for his actions.
A disaster usually happens when several factors conspire to cause it. If the 326 pilot was distracted and not attentive to his surroundings, this could have been bad. Fortunately, he was alert and professional, and a crisis was averted.
Do controllers get rotated off as soon as an incident like this happens. To me it would seem almost impossible to think clearly after making an error like that. You can hear it in their voices afterwards in a few videos ive watched like this. Its got to be the most mentally draining job in the world
Remeber not long ago the whole hierarchical chain at Hongqiao Airport lost their job because of a similar incident? Do you think FAA is a bit soft on ATC?
Frank Wang Different culture. An administration does not implode due to one individuals failure. After a thorough investigation, the individual that erred may be given several options.
Not for nothing they say being an ATC is the most stressful job out there. Just a sec of missing a single line. But then all 3 pilots were alert enough to spot it. And then everyone immediately focuses on what to do next and get things back to normal
This was obviously a controller error, but I’m also curious why I counted (roughly) 1 min 10 sec from takeoff clearance to declaring an RTO. Sounds like IAD at rush hour, what took him so long to get out of there? Typically you’d roll at or during TO clearance.. then again maybe it’s for the better in this case. Does anyone know how far along the crossing aircraft got? Ideally they should have heard UA’s TO clearance and questioned before crossing the active, but in their position I’m only listening for my callsign so I can’t blame them. That would have been REALLY embarrassing if they caught it though!
Wow. TWO aircraft cleared to cross 19C after another was given takeoff clearance on the same! I would’ve asked HIM for “a number to call” and please give me a different controller! A couple unpaid weeks off, perhaps? I put no blame on United 326, but he was told multiple aircraft would be crossing in front of him. That might've raised my awareness after being given a quick takeoff clearance.
I don't understand: WHY the controller issued a take-off clearance in the middle of relatively long message? As far as I know, a take-off clearance must be issued as a separate call. Or am I wrong?
I hope they have the same procedures as we have at work: No blame game, and that means that things are reported and analyzed to try to find the root cause and that by not blaming a single person. For instance it could, as an example in this case, have resulted in other routines so the controllers gets more frequent pauses to not be overloaded (as work overload often leads to mistakes), or better training if there are some component in the training that are not optimal and so on. It rarely is only one persons fault but a chain of events that leads to one person making a mistake, and if you don't address that chain, the same thing will likely happen again.
Funny how tower litterly said hold on runway going to taxi two airplanes across runway ahead of you before takeoff completely forgets the taxi then clears takeoff. After clearing takeoff begins the two taxi to cross rather than just telling them to hold at runway.
Well that shows the pilots were alert at Dulles! I sometimes wonder if the tower really knows what is going on on the runways... I had to sit on a plane waiting to takeoff from Dulles for more than 2 hours. We never found out what that mess was about and the lights on the field went off which was another curious point of the problem.
A quick note... Washington Dulles (this airport) has been fitted with runway status lights(RWSL) to prevent exactly these types of incidents. This means AAL2784 and SKW3721 should have seen an array of red lights on their respective taxiways indicating STOP, runway 19C is unsafe to cross! These expensive techs provide so many redundancies yet human error still prevails. Bad situational awareness for the two pilots crossing the active runway, who didn’t pick up on the controller’s error Nor the red Runway Entrance Lights.
So when a pilot almost collides with another plane, they get a number to call. What happens to a controller when they almost run an airliner full speed into two other airliners because they're not paying attention?
American radio work is a mess and way to colloquial. Working with Australian ATC everyday, and then hearing this is a shock! They would never issue a hold short clearance by saying "taxi up to the runway please".
![[REAL ATC] Gulfstream CAUSES CHAOS ON DEPARTURE at Seattle!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_2YsabrDEug/mqdefault.jpg)
*Many of you guys reported this incident via email and Twitter so here it is!*
I hope this simple visualization helps you understand what's going on there. Thankfully United rejected and American stopped right before entering the runway.
Can you put the date of the incident
freetxt123 i dont think it matters, plus i understood it better here
Let me disagree with that.
First of all, I did not know about this incident before. I might not be very informed but I think there are a lot of people in my situation, for which this is something "new".
Then, I think people come here for the specific format of the content, it's something particular to VASAviation's format that makes it interesting and way more enjoyable than just watching this on any news channels hours after it happened.
Also, I think most of the subscribers have at least some interest in aviation stuff, so I see this community more as a forum to share opinions on a particular incident.
Air crash investigations show is analyzing incidents which happened dozens of years ago...yet they are still a successful show.
Ho Lee Fuq
Date is always at the beginning.
“Tower I have a phone number I need you to write down and call”
Except in this case the controller fucked up royally.
It has to be reported anyway because it's a rejected takeoff. So the FAA will find out why it happened after reviewing the tapes. We have to report an aborted takeoff no matter how small of an issue it is. Most commonly is pipers that don't have their door shut and abort the takeoff.
asteffenson88 dude, we understand what will actually happen. It’s a joke about how we always hear the tower say that to an errant pilot.
@@johnbrickel6446 oh, just throwing the info out there. I get it was a joke but wasn't sure if people actually knew that it will get reported officially.
@asteffenson88 I don't know much about aviation so any info I can get is always helpful. Thanks!
Now that is what I call a couple of pilots truly IN COMMAND. They were both paying attention and caught ATC's mistake. Nice.
Well they always check left and right before crossing so...
@@slweek We are SUPPOSED to always check before crossing a runway. Not everyone does, in fact a significant percentage don't, especially when it's your job to cross runways all day every day so...
They saw each other excellent situational awareness
@@ProfessorDIY um .. the two pilots cleared to cross the runway didn't catch that the atc cleared a plane to take off the same runway. Only the pilot taking off caught it... So... 25% paying attention?
Computer rReally?, one taxied across, the other started then, stopped again short of the runway. The first most likely never saw the aircraft bearing down on him nor realized that an aircraft was cleared for takeoff while he was on it. AAL, probably saw it or realized what had transpired and hit the brakes.
Possible Tower Deviation.
I would pay real money to hear a pilot say that when Tower screws up.
Are you ready to write down a phone number
This was all done really professionally, the pilots acted properly and stopped, nobody got butthurt and started blaming each other. Everyone just got back to work and carried on in a responsible fashion. Really nice to see
I'm impressed by how professional the United pilots were. This was a fatal mistake and they were still polite. For comparison I exhaust all the swear words in my vocabulary if the guy in the other lane crosses too near in front of me while I'm driving. Kudos to United pilots.
This was nothing short of air traffic controller, personally, failing at his job. The pilots saved the day
I'm a little surprised there was no repercussions for the atc (at least that were mentioned).
Yeah but why do I get the impression that if had been a pilot mistake, they'd have a deviation and would have a number to call???
I am butthurt
Tower: AAL 2784, clear to cross runway 19C.
UAL 326 (currently rolling): Boy, that runway number sure does sound familiar.
tower even said they were waiting for other aircraft to cross the runway prior to departure
When the ATC told UAL326 to line up and wait he also said that he was going to have multiple aircraft cross the runway, then a little later gave him clearance to take off, and then after that gave the other two aircraft clearance to cross the runway. It seems to me that he he inadvertently cleared 326 for takeoff, especially since he asked 326 if he gave them clearance after they aborted. I can just imagine the feeling in the pit of his stomach when he realized what he had done.
I also believe it must have been an unintentional clearance , like a slip of the tongue, he didn't even give the wind indications. Human brain can play tricks sometimes...
It really must have been a terrible feeling. Can't judge the guy without knowing the full situation and any possible(?) mitigating circumstances, but I know I would flat out make a terrible ATC.
Marco Casati If you listen carefully, he set himself up for this error. He gave the wind info when he had them line up and wait. So the gray matter says, yep, they have the wind info, clear them for tkoff. If you have a sequence for doing a task, and you change it, errors are sure to happen.
IncandescentWithRage Never underestimate yourself! With the proper attitude and training anyone can be what they wish to be. This was an uncalled for error by the controller. He knows better, has done it correctly thousands of times, it just takes one second of inattention, and you can have a disaster.
@@rubenvillanueva622 :) Thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty damn good at what I do professionally, but I know I would be bad at ATC work.
Keeping it as concise and professional as you usually hear from ATC during an emergency, while busily handing off other aircraft.. definitely better left to those suited to the job.
Did I tell you to take off?
Yes, you did sir
Roger
Mark OnTheBlueRidge - And still maintained the picture and continued, until I believe he was relived of position.
He could have at least apologized!
Megabishop65 - After reviewing the tapes, I am certain he apologised immensely.
@@Megabishop65 he was hoping nobody will notice... This will damage his career, could have cost lives
@@Megabishop65 Apologies are useless and actually the opposite of helpful in this situation.
"Did I just give you clearance?"
...
It was this moment, he knew, he fucked up.
"Tower, when you get a minute, I have a phone number for you to call."
Humans being humans. What is not human is the controller's workload.
NimbusKhan NK I was just thinking that, is it just me or is he doing ground and Tower work at the same time?
agreed. They should lower their wages a bit, but hire more personnel.
Compare to the Airport income flows, it's nothing. The management just simply stingy. Source came from a friend who work the Airport's financial department.
There are shortages in air traffic controllers, for example it's on the 'skills shortage list'(easier visa application for immigrants) here in NZ. Not surprising really, it seems super stressful with little reward(other than wages) to me.
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j you want to lower the wages of someone who is in control of thousands of passengers lives kn the daily? What is wrong with you?
Kudos to the 326 crew for their alertness and humility in communication with the controller.
Crossing aircraft also had a chance to reject crossing instructions. Scenario awareness.
Didn't know the term scenario but "situational awareness" is called. But yes, you're absolutely right. Both AAL and SKW should have denied the crossing and have said "hey, we're not moving. Do you know you just instructed an aircraft to take off on this same runway?".
The problem with that is that major airports have a ground frequency separate from tower frequency; therefore the airplanes taxiing don't always necessarily hear takeoff clearances. It is odd that in this case the voice of the controller sounds the same. Was he actually working both ground and tower? At one point one of the taxiing aircraft even asked if they were on the right frequency, I assume because they were getting taxi, takeoff, and handoff instructions on one freq..
Jay Zenitram at most airports the active runway crossings are cleared by the tower controller and the frequency change to ground is made once clear of the active.
radodrill Correct. This is true for IAD. However, there are also multiple tower frequencies, so the switch to 19C tower may have been made after United's takeoff clearance was issued.
Good point. He could have refused crossing instructions, reminding the controller that he just cleared the other AC for takeoff on the same runway.
Love how friendly they all remain to each other. They all know everyone’s busy and mistakes happen sometimes but they watch each other’s backs
Bad day at the office for that controller..... Great reactions and professionalism from the 326 crew
Not only for 236 but also for 2784
I'm impressed that everyone was professional and calm.
That shows how important team work between the ATC and pilots is. We all are just humans and doing mistakes from time to time so it’s important to pay attention to everything what happen around us, especially in the aviation but of course everywhere else too.
I wouldn't call it a human mistake because it put around 600 people's life's in danger
connor gibson Its obviously a mistake dude. yeah he put lives in danger but handling multiple aircrafts all at the same time all by yourself is definitely frustrating and mistakes come with the job. You cant even expect the most experienced controller to be perfect every single time hes handling multiple aircrafts in a small area.
In this situation, no human mistake can be made. You can't give an excuse on 'we are just humans and doing mistake'.
Of course mistakes can happen! Of course it shouldn’t but they can happen.
You could hear the nerves in the pilot’s voice when calling back to ground. Like, hey dude you almost killed us.
Can't believe how professional the ATC was after he realised the mistake. It was at least a minute and a half before the end of the broadcast. I'd have had a complete meltdown but then I realise the enormity and consequences of such mistakes (not in aviation). I hope he can put this mistake behind him and continue his career. No matter how good you are at your job, once you "know" the responsibility it carries it's different. You cannot learn this, or be told this, it's an experience, one you'll never understand unless you've been there or witnessed it close up. Kudos to the pilots who averted the imminent disaster.
Insane! The controller went way too fast there. Take it a little bit slower, and just guarantuee that safety.
Agreed, Tower guy was talking before his brain processed the information. ATC is a difficult job with difficult requirements, hopefully this makes him slow down.
Kinkajou1015 Agree.
Safety over flow. There's something a controller should always keep in mind... in this order: SAFETY, ORDER and FLOW.
If slower, capacity will decrease.
AirTCO but safety will be on the list and people wont die. Worth it.
Listening to this reminds me how I could never be an ATC. My brain works much better in serial mode than parallel. Hats off to the UAL326 crew! Saved a lot of lives that day.
When I was in the Air Force, I knew an ATC. He said it was one of the most stressful jobs a man could ever have. After about 12 years of service he switched AFSCs (career field) and had to have a pacemaker put it. He would explain close calls and bad days. It's a relatively thankless job. I feel bad for the guys with bad days. They do sanity checks before shifts for obvious reasons. Bad day at home? No duty for you son. Do some paperwork, study, or anything else besides manning the console.
Yeah I can imagine they try to ensure everyone is mentally with it because a very simple mistake has the potential to have dire consequences. That's why I've been watching these videos the last six months is because I've wanted to understand and gain an appreciation for the "behind-the-scenes" work that goes into something like air travel because it's a much deeper process than the average traveller realizes with obviously a hell of a lot on the line if something goes wrong.
I hear the pay is pretty good though.
I know I could not be ATC. I hope all controllers realize when they are unable to keep track of everything and everybody. Tough job. Thanks to all ATC and Pilots.
"Stay with me, please."
"I'd rather not!"
how dare the ATC said that...
LOL!
th-cam.com/video/zSQp7YOPdJ8/w-d-xo.html
I THOUGHT THAT TOO. tOUGH JOB THAT THOUGH, STILL THINK HE WAS VERY PROFESSIONAL AFTER THE INCIDENT. iD HAVE LIKED TOI HAVE SEEN HIM TAKEN OFF DUTY QUICKER THOUGH. iM GUESSING THEY WERE SHORT STAFFED THAT DAY - Bollosck, just realised i did that all in caps...... im not changing it now though! see, we all make mistakes!
Damn! I could never do a job that’s responsible for so many lives. I feel for the tower guy. Tough job.
Barry Sabahat Doctors , ship captains, train engineers, pilots they all do it. You train yourself to handle the situations that come up and continue.I do respect your honesty, stating you would not want to do it.
The controller sounded somewhat humbled after it sunk in what almost happened
Did Skywest check left clear before crossing an active runway??
I like the idea they’re trying to get us to focus on at flight school...ATC make mistakes. You are the pilot in command and if something seems wrong act on it. Ive only flown for a few years and had several issues with tower messing up.
No it's rather clear you haven't. Towers don't mess up often, they're very competent and rigorously trained. In fact it's because this is such a rare incident that it's an interesting video. Very unlikely you were handed the short end of the stick 'several times'. Either that or you're making things up, which is likely considering you misrepresented the ATC's role in the Tenerife incident on your prior comment.
Just like my dad always taught me. Just because someone’s got their blinker on... Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t wait for them to actually make the turn before pulling out in front. You never know whose actually paying attention to what they’re doing.
I taught my kids the same thing - if there's a little blinking light on the corner of a car, the only thing that tells you for certain is that there's a little blinking light on the corner of the car.
Not sure how this applies to a scenario like this. Runway 19C is 11,500 feet long. The distance from the end of the runway where the United plane started their takeoff roll to intersection W2 is a bit over 7,200 feet, or ~1.4 miles. The American plane at W2 also never actually entered the runway. The plane at W4 that entered the runway, *after* the United plane started their takeoff roll, and was around 1.6 miles down the runway.
The only way to catch this would have been if one of the pilots noticed ATC's error on the radio. The driving analogy would be if a traffic light malfunctioned and gave a green light to both through traffic and cross-traffic.
Few people understands that being in aviation is a team work to prevent disasters , this pilot is getting it right .
Good visibility and radio attention is what helped to a oid disaster.
We're all human. Mistakes happen, that's why pilots have eyes as well. Well done everyone :-)
Please note that we have added a consequence for failure. Any contact between aircraft will result in an 'unsatisfactory' mark on your official testing record, followed by death. Good luck!
@@B3Band The cake is a lie
The tried and tested Mark 1 Eyeball.
Controllers don’t make mistakes
Dulles is quite busy, regardless of time of day... Kudos to the pilots who were on their 'A' game that day.
Two questions: 1) How frequently does this happen at busy international airports in America, and 2) what happens to the controller when he/she makes this type of dangerous mistake?
they file paperwork, the people one rung above them figure out what caused the error, and steps are taken to reduce the chances of the same error happening again.
punishments are rare, as nobody works well under threat of immediate termination.
"Did I just give you clearance?"
It's very difficult to imagine the pilot saying: "No, but I thought I'd take off anyway".
I guess it wasn't a real question but an inner monologue where ATC was trying to figure out exactly where his train of thought had left the station, to mix metaphors.
Question for the airline pilots: are you specifically trained to listen to any radio broadcasts concerning your assigned runway? For instance, if you get a "line up and wait 19C" or "22B cleared for take off", is it a specific part of your training to then listen to other calls for other aircraft that concern 19C/22B? And is that then also tested as a scenario in the simulator? If not, this case would be a prime candidate.
I wasn't specifically trained to but common sense dictates that you listen to anything that uses your runway or taxiway number/letter. Same goes with enroute controllers, listen to anything with your altitude.
But often, this is nearly impossible. When a big plane is on the ground, it can be more than a bit busy in the cockpit. This is one instance where an excessively long checklist can cause more hazard than it mitigates.
Small plane checklists (if there even are any) are much shorter so you have time to listen to the radio.
@@rrknl5187 I'm sure there was a Mayday episode where they determined that the prime contributing factor was a badly-designed checklist. I can't remember what the actual incident was, but the CVR indicated that the pilots were working through a checklist and when the NTSB got hold of a copy of said checklist, they found that the single thing the pilots needed to actually to in order to recover was buried on about page three, after a whole bunch of minor junk - and every time the pilots tried something suggested by said checklist, they'd have to start the whole thing over from the beginning, so they never had a chance to find the actual thing that would have fixed the problem.
@@Teverell Some checklists are so idiotic that after going through them for the 500th time, you sort of read them and not think about what is listed. It becomes more of a matter of 'lets get through this' rather than actually focusing on the individual items.
It's the same way with excessive automation.......it's supposed to be a safety feature but when it reduces pilots to nothing more than slaves to computers or procedures, bad things will happen. And the safety device ends up becoming a serious hazard.
I guess I'm too much 'old school', I don't have much faith in checklists or computers, I'd rather rely on my airmanship skills and experience. This doesn't mean that I won't use checklists and computers, I absolutely do but I won't let them be the only thing responsible for flying the plane.
@@rrknl5187 Yeah. This particular one was back in the 70s or 80s, I think (there seemed to be a LOT of incidents/accidents in the 70s and 80s!). From what I remember, the NTSB/FAA redesigned checklists to be more of a flow-chart - but anything you do multiple times becomes a habit, and it's possible to think something was done, when it wasn't, which I think was a contributing factor in Northwest Flight 255 not having slats and flaps configured properly.
As for technology... I'm not a pilot, but as an observer and passenger... I think I prefer the Boeing idea where the pilots still have a yoke, to the Airbus' sidestick and computer automation. *All* the 100% survivor crash stories I'm aware of (the Hudson landing, TACA flight110 and the Gimli Glider) were down to piloting skills. Even United Flight 232 had 185 survivors because of the pilots. Which isn't to say pilot error can't happen, of course it can, but when did a computer ever land a plane safely on a river or a levee or glide safely to a disused airfield?
You pilots, and all the ATC guys, do a fantastic job that I couldn't do. Thank you!
@@Teverell Air France 447 is an example where yoke controls could've improved CRM and situational awareness.
Good thing there was enough visibility, good pilots, lucky controller
Nah, could hear everything over comms.
Eduardo Banda No not so lucky, he will have to live with this forever, Knowing that he nearly wiped out three planes with passengers. He will always feel that he is being watched by his colleagues and not in the same class as them. His future performance, should he remain in the field, will definitely be different, He will tend to be overly cautious and self question his actions.
I agree, you could tell in his voice he knew he had stuffed up. As you say he now has to live with this forever, And regardless of outcome he will always be judged, and yes he will also be doubly hard on himself. Which by itself can produce mistakes being overly cautious. It would not surprise me regardless of outcome he goes for a different career. In a way although a disaster was averted. It should have been averted a lot sooner... Several things of note. 1. Why did UAL 326 not say. Hey Tower you cleared us for takeoff, do you still want us to take off? when I would assume just like the other two aircraft they heard to permission to cross the runway. Also from the other two aircraft who were and are listening to same frequency AAL 2784 and SKW3721 they both would have heard the Take off clearance for the other aircraft. They would not have seen an aircraft go past their nose taking off. So why did neither of them question it? At least 2784 stopped but that alone was not good why did they not speak up? It is very fine to say after that event oh yes we stopped? why not speak up before and stop it before it potentially becomes a disaster. In my opinion the two crossing aircraft were wrong as well as the ATC. Reason being. The aircraft was given takeoff clearance BEFORE they were given clearance to cross.
Greg L Excellent!, Greg. Agree 100%, with your comment. I still cannot get over the fact no one spoke up! Even in the tower, some one had to see this developing and speak out.
Hiya Ruben Villanueva, agree with you. The fact that AAL 2784 stopped means they at least heard the takeoff clearance for UAL 326. That flight crew at least cannot now turn around and say "we did not hear the take off" well obviously they did. As they had stopped. A runway is a long thing and not all runways are flat. The takeoff aircraft is at start of takeoff so is opposite end to those two crossing aircraft. It is possible with the length of the runway they would not see that takeoff aircraft. My other thought is would not that runway holding have REL ??? if so if there is an aircraft on the runway would they not have been red?? in that am not sure of that layout there... but is that not the idea of REL is they indicate takeoff and landing aircraft on that runway? in which case regardless of what ATC says you do not cross while red?
Damn, did he really forget he cleared them for takeoff?
Harry Buttwhisker He forgot Big Time!
Yulp
The SKW3721 pilots were very unaware aswell. It looked like AAL2784 was aware as they were cleared to cross but never did until the United cleared the rwy. Im very surprised nobody questioned that at all! Awesome video showing the intensity of awareness a pilot has to have during every phase of flight.
@@jgpacheco21 true. That shows that they're on the ball paying attention and not blindly following the ATC directions. Nobody wants another Tenerife disaster.
Jonathan Pacheco I still feel that AAL2724, should have jumped in and tell the tower that he had an aircraft crossing. Wonder why he did mot?
I heard the controller was relieved after this incident. Personally. I can't imagine the stress of a work environment where a brief lapse in attention like this could cost someone their career.
Tower we have a possible controller deviation, we have a number for you to call.
Seeing failsafes kick in always makes me happy
Sounds to me like the controller was trying to do too much in too short a time. Was he under that much pressure? Nice work by the pilots though, not just blindly following instructions. This is why the old adage "More haste, less speed" is so true.
So SKW didn't seem to have noticed a plane was just given takeoff clearance on the runway they were told to cross, AAL did seem to have noticed but didn't bother telling anyone (which is worse in my opinion) and UAL also didn't notice they were told to cross until SKW was already on the runway.
Controllers make mistakes sometimes. I get that pilots don't intensively listen to all the messages not meant for them, but wouldn't/shouldn't you notice when the runway you're taking off from or are about to cross is mentioned by the controller?
All my videos - most of them at least - are made to learn from them. In my opinion, the conclusion we have to take from this incident is SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Be always aware on frequency and not only paying attention to our callsign and our instructions. Very important to know what other airplanes around you are doing.
VASAviation - agreed, IMHO it's not too different to pulling out of a T-junction in your car - you look before you pull out, right?
There were several comms between the take off clearance and the crossing clearances. It's easy to not register the conflicting comms if you're the crossing aircraft and busy with post landing details and navigation. It's not to say they shouldn't have caught it, but in this instance, and assuming we're hearing the entire sequence, I'd give the pilots a slight slap on the wrist and ATC a giant smack upside of the head followed by moving him to a quieter airport somewhere in Alaska or Montana. He was sloppy as all hell in his talk anyway - much too far off standard, IMO.
Ultimately it was the controller that gave the incorrect takeoff clearance, but he did tell United that there would be a couple of planes crossing ahead before they take off. Would they have had the chance to see that nobody crossed or would they not have been looking down the runway at that time?
Justin - there's every chance the UAL wouldn;t be able to see due to weather so, imho, it's reasonable for them to to have taken their takeoff clearance as the controller is the one with the eyes across the entire field ( figuratively with the radar/ equipment).
Huge respect to the pilots here. They're *already* juggling a hundred different things in the cockpit, to pick up on those things and act as extra eyes for the tower is a skill in of itself.
If ATC makes mistake and gives conflicting info about waiting would pilot typically confirm clearance?
That could have been two to three planes full of passengers killed and injured, especially if visibility was bad and they could not see the whole runway. Scary.
Small question here: at 0:45, a "turn right hdg 230" is issued for UAL326. How common is it to do so on the ground, while taxiing? Never heard it before like that. (Or is it meant as vector after takeoff?)
that's a vector to be flown after the takeoff. As soon as you lift off and reach your safety altitude, turn right heading 230.
Would that controller stay on his shift? After a howler like that, I'd need some time to get my shit together again!
Tower, got a number for you to call when you’re ready to copy.
If you're asking me that was task saturated automatism kicking in for the controller. He asked to line up and wait and advised he'd have 2 AC crossing prior to take off. He then took his attention to the other two. probably while clearing he noticed 326 sitting on the runway and his brain automatically issued a take-off clearance while his mind was on other aircraft already.
Basically the same effect as when you read a book and your mind drifts but your eyes continue to scan the lines... I hope he didn't get completely layed off because they gotta get that workload decreased somehow.
I thought when a controller made a serious mistake they were relieved of duty on frequency and another controller takes over. I know this is the standard procedure in the UK. Is it true for the US as well?
how about ATC gets involved in developing some type of red / green traffic light system......whenever a plane is cleared for take off or on short final, the taxi / runway access lights becomes red ...........
Looks like a typical VATSIM tower clearance. They won't separate you from other traffic, but they'll DAMN well make sure you're on the correct SID and routing.
Ron Williams With SIDs in place Vatsim controllers can "sling steel"all day long!
Oh man, instant sweaty hands. Is there any investigation going on?
Cristian Popa Certainly, the pilots will file a Hazard Report, and the controller had to notify the watch supervisor, so the tapes can be pulled, until the start of the investigation. Possibly, he was also relieved from that control position for the remainder of the shift, pending the review.
Ruben Villanueva Controllers have a form that they can fill out that makes sure they aren't punished. They get retrained and as long as it doesn't happen again, all is ok. Pilots, mechanics, flight attendants, dispatchers, etc all have similar forms. They are called ASAP forms. They are called something similar with ATC.
Joseph Dale Thank you for that, Dale. It must be something new. I do recall a time when pilots were afraid to report flight deviations or near misses, fearing punishment from the FAA or their own company. Then they came out with an amnesty program. Wow, did the reports flow in! It was a good thing, for more information was obtained and used to improve the system. In this situation, the tapes will show what actually happened. At the minimum, a retraining period will most likely be given, If his prior performance evaluations are clean. I would have to seek more info on that "controller non punishment" form. Will post any info I get.
sweinberge Yes, , ATC and aviation, in general have come along way. I have reviewed accident and incident reports, and from each a short lesson could be learned.
Joseph Dale Hi Joseph, when I read your comment I was a bit surprised. So I contacted a very knowledgable friend who just retired from The FAA, and asked him about, this. We had a long talk as to when, why and how it was implemented. I do agree with most of it. Perhaps punishment, is not the correct word. A controller is not punished, or whatever. Most often, retraining is given so the controller can get back up to speed. Of course this will be annotated on his file. Thank you, for your input, hope to see more of your comments in the future.
Ok, I'm NOT a pilot but are all 3 aircraft on the same freq? If so, wondering why the other 2 aircraft didn't hear the take-off clearance for the United flight before accepting directions to cross the active runway!
Do they have to check fuel and brakes after rejecting a takeoff and is that what they mentioned they had to 'redo'? I guess they have some checklists to do before any takeoff but in certain rejected takeoffs is there a chance that they would have to add any more fuel?
Hope everyone's doing good.
Wow, totally huge screwup by the controller. Glad the pilots all were wide awake! I used to be the guy copying those incident tapes at SLC ARTCC 25 yrs ago.
United 326 keeping situational awareness. WELL DONE!
No he's not. He's looking down the runway.
Holy Shi*! Lucky that United pilot was paying attention. Do you call that a possible controller deviation?
Thank goodness UAL326 didn't get too much speed up!
IAD is a home airport of mine too. I've flown through there as a passenger several times. Didn't know this happened until the time of this comment!
Any follow up on what happened to the ATC that gave takeoff and taxxi clearance?
Why atc is not punished :( what only pilots get to call numbers?
Thats a good example of how aviation works, the error made by one person alone isn’t enough to end up in an accident.
Those pilots were trying to stay off the flight channel
Question for the rule nerds:
Would it be an appropriate use of "pan pan" if United was already past v1 and heard crossing clearances being given?
As in:
TWR - AAL2784, taxi to the gate via Y7 and C, cross rwy 19C
UAL - PAN PAN PAN, do not cross, we are on takeoff run on 19C!
Hi there,
It's interesting that thing you suggest. Assuming you know that V1 is decision speed (past V1 is a takeoff yes or yes, no matter what - except super major failures), I think that could be a way of letting the other pilots know there's an aircrat rolling down. Anyway, in my opinion, this video is all about situational awareness. American and Skywest should have realized a United had been cleared for takeoff seconds earlier.
I agree, the bigger lesson here is awareness. As far as I know, there are some airlines that require their pilots to verbalise "left side clear" and "right side clear" respectively EVERY TIME they enter or cross a runway, so they don't forget to check. But kudos to the United pilot for being on top of it and rejecting T/O because of crossing clearances on his runway!
Imo, the call should ALWAYS be „UAL326, Cleared for takeoff on (RW) 34.“ with emphasizing „takeoff“ while speaking. That way ALL pilots on frequency can listen to that, and if it’s the only thing they listen to. It is the most dangerous call on the airport, and not that often that not all pilots could watch out for.
First thing to do...immediately change the controller...he needs a rest, a debriefing, a safety report, few days off.
Everyone makes mistakes, but "stay with me ...you are cleared again for take-off" is simply UNSAFE.
Question: Is there automation in use, or on the horizon, for preventing this sort of incident and potential accident from occurring in the future?
Mutual exclusion resources (items that are so critical, only one user at a time may access, for very brief periods) have been around since 1965.
Runways and high speed taxiways would seem to fit this definition.
If “Cleared For Takeoff”/“Cleared For Landing” were issued as systems command rather than a verbal command.
The opportunity for ATC or PIC to forget or misunderstand would be removed.
FMS could be restricted to prevent the aircraft from entering a takeoff/landing until the clearance signal is received.
Such a system could be extended to encompass entry into or crossing of such critical resources by low speed aircraft as well.
(There may be excellent reasons why we don’t do this already. I was just curious.)
Takeoff clearance absolutely requires nothing else to be on the runway, landing clearance does not. Landing clearances are typically given when the plane is still several miles out, often with other landings/takeoffs/crossings to happen first, especially at the busiest airports. The runway needs to be clear when the plane reaches decision height, the point where it has to decide whether to land or go around.
@@KingdaToro This is only true for the US though. In other parts of the world, landing clearance follows the same pricinciple and only given when the runway is and will be completely empty. (seems to always create a fun comment-war - EU commenters cite safety, US commenters cite capacity increase)
You can hear the anxiety after an error, phewww too high pressure for me.
Interesting - I've heard other TH-cam videos about this previously but had not realized they told TWO planes to cross in front of them on the runway. I do like your graphics, makes it much easier to follow everything and tell what I should be listening for!
As a complete layperson, the tenerife disaster was on thick fog - had the visibility been poor, this really could have been a disaster as it relied on the pilots being able to see the traffic, or would fog have been handled differently?
this was so professional, it was almost boring :D
Haven't seen any comments on Runway Status Lights at W2 and W4 kicking in. With departing traffic rolling on the runway both crews crossing the runway downfield should have seen RELs light red. No mention of that, though. Why?
For one side like to hear a pilot say "possible controller deviation let me know when you're ready to copy a number..."
I have nothing but respect for ATC, and I have no less respect for this gentleman listening to him make a mistake, even a mistake with such serious potential consequences. The expectations we place on these workers is irresponsible, we KNOW that human error is inevitable. I couldn’t be more grateful that this came to a safe conclusion, and I’m impressed by how calm everyone stayed
Sharp as a sword the 326 pilots. Poor ATC. Just began fluffing up his words once he'd messed up. Poor bastard.
the United 326 Pilot should have said: "Possible Controller Deviation, Advise ready to copy my phone number"
"Just watch and listen"
That's ... why I'm here.
I don't take orders from a TH-camr. I talked all the way through it.
Some how I feel if the error were reversed, the pilot would have been instructed to take down a number. If it had been foggy it could have been a Tenerife style disaster.
Although not mentioned in this recording, there's no doubt the pilots would have filed a report on this incident. The controller didn't simply get to shake his shoulders and move on without facing the music for his actions.
A disaster usually happens when several factors conspire to cause it. If the 326 pilot was distracted and not attentive to his surroundings, this could have been bad. Fortunately, he was alert and professional, and a crisis was averted.
What made 326 abort the take off; Was that a visual of an aircraft crossing the runway or the radio communication that they caught?
Combination most likely. They were still on tower frequency and would have heard the clearance to cross and gone wtf.
Do controllers get rotated off as soon as an incident like this happens. To me it would seem almost impossible to think clearly after making an error like that. You can hear it in their voices afterwards in a few videos ive watched like this. Its got to be the most mentally draining job in the world
OMG, thank heavens the pilots were on task. ATC needs a break and some retraining.
Ahhhh tower, we just rejected for traffic on the runway and ahh declaring an emergency right now, there's a bad smell in the cockpit.
Remind me again what the deadline is for runway collision avoidance systems to be mandatory at large U.S. airports? (If there even is one.)
Wow that ATC had so much going on. I feel kinda sorry for him but at the same time that's not a mistake that can be overlooked.
Remeber not long ago the whole hierarchical chain at Hongqiao Airport lost their job because of a similar incident? Do you think FAA is a bit soft on ATC?
Frank Wang Different culture. An administration does not implode due to one individuals failure. After a thorough investigation, the individual that erred may be given several options.
Not for nothing they say being an ATC is the most stressful job out there. Just a sec of missing a single line. But then all 3 pilots were alert enough to spot it. And then everyone immediately focuses on what to do next and get things back to normal
Question:
After aborting a takeoff, shouldn't they have to wait for brakes to cool off?
"Hey ATC, got that pen ready"?......
Why ground and aerodrome positions are not separated?
This was obviously a controller error, but I’m also curious why I counted (roughly) 1 min 10 sec from takeoff clearance to declaring an RTO. Sounds like IAD at rush hour, what took him so long to get out of there? Typically you’d roll at or during TO clearance.. then again maybe it’s for the better in this case.
Does anyone know how far along the crossing aircraft got? Ideally they should have heard UA’s TO clearance and questioned before crossing the active, but in their position I’m only listening for my callsign so I can’t blame them. That would have been REALLY embarrassing if they caught it though!
How often do this things happen?
Controller was so polite imho, thats make 326 didnt said anything about "i had number" thing
Wow. TWO aircraft cleared to cross 19C after another was given takeoff clearance on the same! I would’ve asked HIM for “a number to call” and please give me a different controller! A couple unpaid weeks off, perhaps? I put no blame on United 326, but he was told multiple aircraft would be crossing in front of him. That might've raised my awareness after being given a quick takeoff clearance.
I don't understand: WHY the controller issued a take-off clearance in the middle of relatively long message? As far as I know, a take-off clearance must be issued as a separate call. Or am I wrong?
I hope they have the same procedures as we have at work: No blame game, and that means that things are reported and analyzed to try to find the root cause and that by not blaming a single person. For instance it could, as an example in this case, have resulted in other routines so the controllers gets more frequent pauses to not be overloaded (as work overload often leads to mistakes), or better training if there are some component in the training that are not optimal and so on. It rarely is only one persons fault but a chain of events that leads to one person making a mistake, and if you don't address that chain, the same thing will likely happen again.
Funny how tower litterly said hold on runway going to taxi two airplanes across runway ahead of you before takeoff completely forgets the taxi then clears takeoff. After clearing takeoff begins the two taxi to cross rather than just telling them to hold at runway.
Well that shows the pilots were alert at Dulles! I sometimes wonder if the tower really knows what is going on on the runways... I had to sit on a plane waiting to takeoff from Dulles for more than 2 hours. We never found out what that mess was about and the lights on the field went off which was another curious point of the problem.
A quick note... Washington Dulles (this airport) has been fitted with runway status lights(RWSL) to prevent exactly these types of incidents. This means AAL2784 and SKW3721 should have seen an array of red lights on their respective taxiways indicating STOP, runway 19C is unsafe to cross! These expensive techs provide so many redundancies yet human error still prevails. Bad situational awareness for the two pilots crossing the active runway, who didn’t pick up on the controller’s error Nor the red Runway Entrance Lights.
Eventually someone will dream up some sort of "back-up" system to cover the eventuality of failure of the RWSL. It never ends.
very nicely handled 👍
So when a pilot almost collides with another plane, they get a number to call.
What happens to a controller when they almost run an airliner full speed into two other airliners because they're not paying attention?
American radio work is a mess and way to colloquial. Working with Australian ATC everyday, and then hearing this is a shock! They would never issue a hold short clearance by saying "taxi up to the runway please".