@@stephenleemd123 To be fair its all relative. Task saturation can still be pretty high when youre hand flying a 172 ifr with nothing but steam gauges, just like it probably is flying in the airlines with more complex systems, faster planes, etc. Even with an autopilot
@@Antonio_Talavera no fooking excuse for 2 commercial pilots nor being able to select heading select 105 and activate ffs... she repeated the instruction several times....must have been blowing the captain
Very bizarre. I’d think they’d use the mag compass if it has one. Scary to think this is a part 121 operation. Well at least she held wings level. Aviate, navigate communicate.
It has absolutely nothing to do with empathy, but absolutely avoiding a collision. this isn’t about your feelings. This is about doing things correctly and avoided a tragedy.
But if he gives the pretty sounding sweet little lady a hall pass on multiple major “possible” pilot deviations over a city, he damn well better be as kind to the next 10 guys that pull something like this. 10:1 are also the odds that he won’t.
@@RetreadPhoto she's not the pilot who is deviating though. There is someone else, likely in the left (captain's seat) flying the plane. She's the pilot monitoring and should be picking up the issue too, but there are two people making mistakes here.
@@ChrisCooper312 if she ain’t communicating, she’s as much at fault as anyone. Anyone that sits there and keeps blindly repeating, “you betcha, we’re on it, cheerio” while the plane goes in the wrong direction, and she acts like everything is fine, I’m not cutting her a second of slack. No way controller would have treated a man like this.
IKR?!? She sounds like she’s almost 12 years old. And unless there is a serious malfunction with that airplane, she and the other pilot fly like they’re almost 12 too.
Yeah there was a lot of hints of “The heading is.. hey if you’re having problems…” which should have been acknowledged by the pilot. But when that didn’t happen it seems surprising there wasn’t an explicit “we need you to follow the directed heading 105 and you have not been doing so, please advise reason” call.
Agreed. After noticing she was still not turning, ATC should have asked her, "5002, what does your instrument say is indicated heading? Confirm it says 105 please."
@@chrisschack9716 oh yes, she's not innocent. It's just the way some people are talking it's like this is a single pilot light aircraft where she is the one solely responsible for flying it. She's not, and there is someone else sitting, likely in the left seat, flying the plane and hearing all the radio communications.
@@parti-gyle6466 ATC wouldn't say something unprofessional like this, as they know this is a commercial flight with two pilots, and that the other pilot will be flying the plane.
Wow, That is a real head scratcher. In a post 9/11 world, that type of navigational error can cause a lot of trouble. ATC did not seem too upset. They must be nicer in MN. Don't try that with NY ATC.
It's not always about smacking down someone. Too many of these controllers want to have a trial right there on the radio, with them as prosecutor, judge, and jury - all while their feet are safely planted on the ground.
She could diverse right into the path of another aircraft. The hell with quotas and forced inclusion. Work for the qualifications and get the job on merit and appropriate training skills.
It's possible that they were having "equipment issues", but I doubt it. If I'm flying a given heading and the controller is still telling me to turn to that heading then I'm going to immediately tell him "already showing that heading on my end" and we're both going to know there's an issue. The most annoying part is that she just kept right on parroting the heading back to tower but literally not making any attempt to turn or cross check the current shown heading. She also struggled to remember her own call sign on almost every call which tells me she was likely pretty behind the plane. Frustrating to watch, but good job on controllers to try to help. In other parts of the country, I suspect they'd have been given a phone number.
What the hell!!!! They never did get on the right bearing even after they acknowledged their instructions. Hopefully both of those that were in the front up there are sent back to remedial training.......
I flew the Crj for 10 years. The AHRS system was wonky, so I’m willing to bet this was an instrument issue they couldn’t figure out. But the whole thing seems bizarre.
Isn’t it their moral obligation to say as much over communications? Those are multiple SERIOUS deviations with no explanation. I’d honestly suspect they were sneaking in a quickie. Post-9/11 this type of flying raises eyebrows.
Probably not in the right autopilot mode, so turning the heading bug to 105, but that’s not doing anything because they’re not in HDG mode. They seem to get on course when they got direct SNINE, so my guess is is they were following something in the FMS, instead of HDG, coupled with poor situational awareness.
I can't imagine this, but the ONLY thing that I can think of is that they were in the wrong lateral navigation mode. This is the issue with being too heavily dependent on automation. My *guess* is that they were in LNAV (GPS based) navigation instead of HDG (Heading) and neither the PF nor the PNF caught it (which would be remarkable). At this stage of the game, they should both be well aware of how to fly a heading by now so .. I'm not sure what the heck happened there.
Her seeming oblivious to the situation could also be the result of instructors teaching her (them) - “NEVER admit anything on the radio!”. But that kinda thing can be taken to the extreme which results in her answering every radio call as if the world is beautiful and absolutely nothing is wrong. Be pragmatic…..don’t volunteer stuff that you don’t need to on the freq. but come on, speak up if there’s a problem. ATC will help. They aren’t monsters.
I can guarantee you although it’s not a FOQA call, Endeavor called the crew themselves on this one, And probs the FAA was involved. I’ve gotten an FAA call without the phone number.
What a bizarre case. You can bet that ZMP TMU called their ops about this... I'm sure she not only had to call ATC but likely call the Chief Pilot after that flight. Honestly would be surprised if she didn't put back in the right seat.
At the start it looks like they were going to 150 and didn't notice they were making a right turn when it should have been left. After that maybe they didn't understand they were being given a heading, and instead thought they were supposed to turn left 105, and again got confused and put in 150. She even asks to confirm (without saying her callsign) 105, as though she thought they were on 105. Then at some point it seems they were so confused they could answer the radio calls. Love to know what was happening.
Every airplane has a magnetic compass for just this situation. If ATC keeps "reminding" you of your assigned heading (or altitude, or airspeed, or baro setting, etc) you are likely screwing the pooch and need to step back and take a look at what you are doing.
Recovering from disorientation is not always easy. The controller could have pointed out their actual heading in numbers to help them snap out of it or see if there was an equipment problem.
Interesting all the comments about how bad of a pilot she is...typically, pilot monitoring will be on the radio, while PIC flies the aircraft, however, it would help explain task overload if she was both PIC and on the radio, in which case shame on the pilot monitoring for not helping out. Hard to know without being in the cockpit. Obvi some serious confusion with what the airplane was doing vs instructions from ATC given she readback the heading a couple times before asking to verify. Appreciate the comment about the controller needing to verify indicated heading with the pilot, would have helped clear up some confusion. Either way, good job on the controller to maintain separation with approaching aircraft in a busy airspace and thankful everyone kept a cool head.
You are correct. Two pilots had to mess up in order for this to happen. The pilot on the radio is almost certainly the PM, while the other pilot is flying. The only time the pilot flying handles the radio is during an emergency when the PM runs the appropriate emergency checklist. If there was something wrong with their instruments, they should have said as much. My mind is boggled as to how this happened.
poor CRM, poor knowledge of aircraft instruments, poor knowledge of aircraft system they are lucky that the airport is not surrounded by mountains and/or they are not in a non-English speaking country.
Would be interesting to know if they put the 'right' parallel runway in as the departure profile instead of the' left' which they actually departed on. This has happened multiple times before and will happen again. The FMC and INS align on the programmed departure runway point when take off thrust is applied which would give you instrument errors initially after take off (immediate right turn after take off to intercept the 'right' runway departure course) . Once airborne a combination of DME/DME, VOR/VOR cross checking would slowly resolve the ambiguity. Just a theory!
I've checked and this flight usually departed 30R back in March. Would be interesting to know if 12L was a last minute change that day. They couldn't change the heading because they were probably following the FMS route clearance and were not in HDG mode.
Nothing you said makes sense, just FYI. Not in the sense that I don’t understand what you mean, but that it’s not how an aircraft FMC works. Doesn’t matter what runway was used in previous flights, that has no bearing on this specific day. Doesn’t matter if they gave them a different heading/departure, that’s a simple fix that wouldn’t explain all this. Stick with the flightsim, learn more, comment less. You’re just going to confuse people who aren’t familiar (including yourself)
Making a mistake by setting heading 010 or 005 is okay ( everyone makes mistake), but it is not okay that she did not make correction as instructed again and again.
Why that plane was allowed to continue there flight is a mystery! Can’t allow planes flying through the NAS that don’t know which direction they are going.
Considering that that runway used is already oriented at 120 this should be a short left turn to get on assigned heading 105. Pilot needs to check instruments but common sense and pre take off brief should tell you that turning right after take off will take away from your assigned heading. From there she was so confused .........
If that was a 172, you'd have gotten a number after the 12th time ATC told you to turn 105. I really feel like she had 005 on her mind. I did this once in class C so I can't judge. ATC caught it pretty quick and got me straight, so who am I to criticize.
There's a whiskey compass in this thing. Just the most bizarre conduct I have seen in a while. They have to make a slight leftward adjustment of their course after takeoff and instead they turn all the way around to North and it looked like they were going to make a left turn all the way around 300° to their assigned heading. Just crazy.
What was the other person in this cockpit doing? Where they really both THAT incompetent? How did she get any aviation license? Why stayed ATC so calm? Why no number?..... I have so many questions... I hope the FAA too...
There was a complete lack of communication in that cockpit. I have a 20 spot that says the PF was pulling a “big swinging dich” moment. I’d love to read that ASAP report.
It didn’t help that (at least looking at the track data) the second time they were told “Left heading 105” they were already through 090 and in a left turn. That only adds to confusion and disorientation. Probably why a subsequent call from the fee was “confirm LEFT 105”, because they would have been thinking ‘that’s a full orbit over the field and they didn’t say anything about that’. Hence the double check. There may have been nothing wrong other than an initial minor mistake to the right after departure, a misunderstanding of a 005 heading, then through 105 when told ‘left 105’. These things happen. Reports are (or should be) filed, and it’s looked into by both parties to better understand the events. No big deal. Calmly handled by ATC. No conflict. Just a couple of errors on both parts.
That's what I thought, but the video is clearly off based on the conversation. 105 was never left of their heading, and wheen he showed them going north, they were going northeast. I think bad editing.
Absolutely! Basic human factors understanding says to me that you don't tell someone to turn after they've overshot their turn! You need to tell them point blank that they turned too far, they're off heading, and to turn back, turn right to 105. That might have cleared the cobwebs and got them back on track. Why does everyone want them to give them a phone number - that's not really the point of all this, right?
@@jsmith1746 It can be a legit issue without them knowing it's a legit issue yet. If you're disoriented and/or are getting conflicting information then it's not always easy to figure out what reality is. It happens. Go play flight simulator for 40 hours this week and see how many times it happens to you.
OK, so I have no flight experience from either side, so I might knot know what I'm talking about.... Wouldn't it be normal for ATC to call out that the flight has not complied with instructions? They keep repeating the same instruction, and while some here feel that the pilots should take this as some sort of indication that something is wrong, I don't see that there should be a reliance on that. Probably there was pilot error and they thought they were flying 105, or an instrument error said they were on 105. In any case, confirmation bias probably comes into play here. Shouldn't ATC call them out on the incorrect heading explicitly?
MSP controllers are awesome but when the controller saw the plane on a steady track that obviously wasn't as assigned, I was surprised he didn't ask "What is your heading right now?" What was the final outcome? Was it an equipment malfunction? Does anybody know why this happened?
If you take the autopilot out of the equation, is there any way to manually fly the plane & check the navigation? I have to imagine if ATC keeps telling you that you're way off, you'd want to some checks. I also agree that she sounded young and inexperienced. Her readbacks a) were sometimes wrong b) she didn't acknowledge anything such as "i notice you keep telling me i'm way off my course but my equipment is telling me i'm flying at a heading of 105"...(i'm just a fan of the channel, i'm not a pilot)
Yes of course we can manually fly the plane. But that wasn't needed here. They just needed to engage heading mode and select heading 105. Very simple. The fact that she's the one speaking on the radio means she is NOT the one who was flying. The other pilot was flying. Nonetheless it's still her responsibility as the pilot monitoring to make sure that the pilot flying is following ATC's instructions. Both her and the pilot flying failed in this scenario. They clearly didn't follow instructions while not giving a valid reason as to why they were unable to follow the clearance.
Wow so so weird that the controllers never asked why they were not following instructions and just guessed they had a problem . On the other side is good to see how chill they are. In Europe for something like this controllers would have been totally freaked out , in Germany for example .. anyway they really should have given a phone number to understand why the pilots acknowledged the instructions without following them ..
Do people not know that shes Pilot Monitoring? Like there is another pilot who is not making the radio calls who is not doing the turn. Stop saying its just her
And given that she does sound pretty young and maybe even inexperienced, it's safe to say that there is someone senior to her sitting in the left seat, and actually flying the plane.
@@UnrealNarcissist I mean maybe? but maybe we should be focusing on the person who didnt turn the airplane. Id rather someone fuck up the radio call but we nail the 105 heading haha
They were both incompetent here. Most likely a captain that upgraded too early flying with a newer first officer. Happens all then time. Been in the industry for almost 30 years.
The number of armchair airline pilots commenting on this who don't understand something as simple as the concept that the pilot flying isn't the one on the radios is hilarious. Somehow, you all are qualified to chalk this up to hiring practices all while you aren't educated enough to understand some of the most basic concepts of CRM in the industry.
It's a bunch of misogynistic creeps, you can just see the insecurities of their manhood screaming in the ridiculousness of their comments. This coming from a 50 year old white male, who has been in this business for 30 years.
I have no proof but I also have no doubt that the first entry on the AP heading panel was HDG 150 and then tried to correct it instead of using 105 they put 050. 😅
Watch more here ⬇
Funny audio: - th-cam.com/play/PLye8eXFJvTHeosyQ38fYToA2ZU93Mqk3x.html
ATC Audio: - th-cam.com/play/PLye8eXFJvTHc5MVORFOEcZi4cKFTLLiZl.html
Incidents: - th-cam.com/play/PLye8eXFJvTHdrUhbZiHUHb8QYSqaeyOcW.html
Emergency: - th-cam.com/play/PLye8eXFJvTHdqhpTjEbYcS2Og9AvfqIp8.html
Crashes: - th-cam.com/play/PLye8eXFJvTHcthh94NvPfmZnyi05k0UVa.html
This is truly bizarre. You would fail a basic Instrument rating checkride in a Cessna doing this.....
That’s true but it also happens at a snails pace in a Cessna and you’re hand flying
@@stephenleemd123 To be fair its all relative. Task saturation can still be pretty high when youre hand flying a 172 ifr with nothing but steam gauges, just like it probably is flying in the airlines with more complex systems, faster planes, etc. Even with an autopilot
@@Antonio_Talavera no fooking excuse for 2 commercial pilots nor being able to select heading select 105 and activate ffs... she repeated the instruction several times....must have been blowing the captain
Very bizarre. I’d think they’d use the mag compass if it has one. Scary to think this is a part 121 operation. Well at least she held wings level. Aviate, navigate communicate.
Yet she is flying a crj
Someone entered 005, and never looked down 😂
Completely agree with your assessment. Zero situational awareness.
@@Francois8011 nope, they went well past north….
@@willer3399more like 305!
Anyone else was waiting for "let me know when your ready to take down a number"?
She couldn’t get three numbers right. Imagine giving her ten.
@@tpbrcombo😂
Idk about Minneapolis but a lot of places are automated now. If Minneapolis is automated, she’ll receive a letter from the FAA in a couple months.
Legend has it teh ATC is still telling Endeavor 5002 that the heading is 105
As they continue to fly endless right turns
Legend has it that Mel Gibson is the owner of Endeavor Airlines :)
Joke is so played out
Legend has it they continued northbound and went around the world.
"Did they ever return, no they never returned, and their fate is still unknown..." :)
That ATC is a class act, really refreshing to hear someone with empathy and not copping a sassy attitude.
Imagine this out of JFK 💀
It has absolutely nothing to do with empathy, but absolutely avoiding a collision. this isn’t about your feelings. This is about doing things correctly and avoided a tragedy.
But if he gives the pretty sounding sweet little lady a hall pass on multiple major “possible” pilot deviations over a city, he damn well better be as kind to the next 10 guys that pull something like this. 10:1 are also the odds that he won’t.
@@RetreadPhoto she's not the pilot who is deviating though. There is someone else, likely in the left (captain's seat) flying the plane. She's the pilot monitoring and should be picking up the issue too, but there are two people making mistakes here.
@@ChrisCooper312 if she ain’t communicating, she’s as much at fault as anyone. Anyone that sits there and keeps blindly repeating, “you betcha, we’re on it, cheerio” while the plane goes in the wrong direction, and she acts like everything is fine, I’m not cutting her a second of slack. No way controller would have treated a man like this.
I swear that was the captain’s kid in the right seat.
IKR?!? She sounds like she’s almost 12 years old. And unless there is a serious malfunction with that airplane, she and the other pilot fly like they’re almost 12 too.
Wow, this was bizzare. Soundsd more like a student pilot on their first X country in a 172. 🤔
Not ready to solo yet. Not even close.
Legend has it no one over the age of 10 was in the cockpit.
She seemed oblivious, but why didn't ATC ask her what the indicated heading was in order to cross check?
Yeah there was a lot of hints of “The heading is.. hey if you’re having problems…” which should have been acknowledged by the pilot. But when that didn’t happen it seems surprising there wasn’t an explicit “we need you to follow the directed heading 105 and you have not been doing so, please advise reason” call.
Agreed. After noticing she was still not turning, ATC should have asked her, "5002, what does your instrument say is indicated heading? Confirm it says 105 please."
"She" was handling the radios. Someone else was flying the plane.
@@ChrisCooper312 She still has instruments and can cross-check them. Very odd...
@@chrisschack9716 oh yes, she's not innocent. It's just the way some people are talking it's like this is a single pilot light aircraft where she is the one solely responsible for flying it. She's not, and there is someone else sitting, likely in the left seat, flying the plane and hearing all the radio communications.
5002 never obeyed with a single instruction post takeoff. Everything ok and we are turning, and then continue North? WTF was that?
ATC: "Is your instructor with you?"
@@parti-gyle6466 ATC wouldn't say something unprofessional like this, as they know this is a commercial flight with two pilots, and that the other pilot will be flying the plane.
Yank their licenses absolutely unacceptable. That’s how you get people killed. Surprised no flight deviation was called.
@@ChrisCooper312 Don’t be dense, it’s a joke dickhead
@@ChrisCooper312 So, what happened then?
Wow, That is a real head scratcher. In a post 9/11 world, that type of navigational error can cause a lot of trouble. ATC did not seem too upset. They must be nicer in MN. Don't try that with NY ATC.
Minnesota Nice.😊
Is that because of the 6 airports within a few miles of each other and no time for ignorance like that?
yeah, they'll put you down in a river
Amazing no number was given for a possible pilot deviation.
It's not always about smacking down someone. Too many of these controllers want to have a trial right there on the radio, with them as prosecutor, judge, and jury - all while their feet are safely planted on the ground.
@@19Borneo67 That’s why there’s an ASAP program. No judgement can take place when you self report.
@@19Borneo67 You have to admit, she wasn't even close to 105.
Guaranteed they still reported it.
@@robertprivate742
That’s not always true. There are several times when self report won’t save you.
I am amazed that she did not get a number
Diversity privileges
Same I was Just waiting but it never came.
She could diverse right into the path of another aircraft. The hell with quotas and forced inclusion. Work for the qualifications and get the job on merit and appropriate training skills.
It probably came on a later frequency or she got a call from her company later to file a report with their safety reporting program.
Nice to have female privilege huh?
Love the visuals, really well done.
Thank you for watching!
Looks like the pilots got cold feet and left Heading 105 all alone at the altar.
It's possible that they were having "equipment issues", but I doubt it. If I'm flying a given heading and the controller is still telling me to turn to that heading then I'm going to immediately tell him "already showing that heading on my end" and we're both going to know there's an issue. The most annoying part is that she just kept right on parroting the heading back to tower but literally not making any attempt to turn or cross check the current shown heading. She also struggled to remember her own call sign on almost every call which tells me she was likely pretty behind the plane.
Frustrating to watch, but good job on controllers to try to help. In other parts of the country, I suspect they'd have been given a phone number.
The audacity to say “everything’s normal” at the end…
It's actually "everything's back to normal", if you listen closely. Implying there was some sort of systems issue.
She was obviously a newer FO and dealing with a captain that upgraded too quickly.
"Fine, everything is fine. How are you?"
What the hell!!!! They never did get on the right bearing even after they acknowledged their instructions. Hopefully both of those that were in the front up there are sent back to remedial training.......
Are you still having your classes in your basement next to the dryer?
@@RLTtizMEFound the pilot.
I flew the Crj for 10 years. The AHRS system was wonky, so I’m willing to bet this was an instrument issue they couldn’t figure out. But the whole thing seems bizarre.
Isn’t it their moral obligation to say as much over communications? Those are multiple SERIOUS deviations with no explanation. I’d honestly suspect they were sneaking in a quickie. Post-9/11 this type of flying raises eyebrows.
@@RetreadPhoto Exactly. There's nothing wrong with admitting an issue, even a PAN PAN call.
Is the CRJ not equipped with a compass?
they should have a backup instrument, right? there’s no excuse for those crj pilots..
Compass error or not, no clue where effing east is?
Any theory as to what was going on there? Instrument failure? I was waiting for the tower to ask her what her current heading was.
Probably not in the right autopilot mode, so turning the heading bug to 105, but that’s not doing anything because they’re not in HDG mode. They seem to get on course when they got direct SNINE, so my guess is is they were following something in the FMS, instead of HDG, coupled with poor situational awareness.
diversity
I can't imagine this, but the ONLY thing that I can think of is that they were in the wrong lateral navigation mode. This is the issue with being too heavily dependent on automation. My *guess* is that they were in LNAV (GPS based) navigation instead of HDG (Heading) and neither the PF nor the PNF caught it (which would be remarkable). At this stage of the game, they should both be well aware of how to fly a heading by now so .. I'm not sure what the heck happened there.
Your stupidity, more like.
Her seeming oblivious to the situation could also be the result of instructors teaching her (them) - “NEVER admit anything on the radio!”. But that kinda thing can be taken to the extreme which results in her answering every radio call as if the world is beautiful and absolutely nothing is wrong.
Be pragmatic…..don’t volunteer stuff that you don’t need to on the freq. but come on, speak up if there’s a problem. ATC will help. They aren’t monsters.
Tower was VERY patient with them :D
Departure control, not tower.
The pilots most likely loaded some procedure and it was activated. Autopilot instead of flying the plane.
Shes flying 1:05 on an analog clock.
Where's that phone number?!
I can guarantee you although it’s not a FOQA call, Endeavor called the crew themselves on this one, And probs the FAA was involved. I’ve gotten an FAA call without the phone number.
Doesn’t matter, they wouldn’t get it right anywho.
What a bizarre case. You can bet that ZMP TMU called their ops about this... I'm sure she not only had to call ATC but likely call the Chief Pilot after that flight. Honestly would be surprised if she didn't put back in the right seat.
At the start it looks like they were going to 150 and didn't notice they were making a right turn when it should have been left. After that maybe they didn't understand they were being given a heading, and instead thought they were supposed to turn left 105, and again got confused and put in 150. She even asks to confirm (without saying her callsign) 105, as though she thought they were on 105. Then at some point it seems they were so confused they could answer the radio calls. Love to know what was happening.
Every airplane has a magnetic compass for just this situation. If ATC keeps "reminding" you of your assigned heading (or altitude, or airspeed, or baro setting, etc) you are likely screwing the pooch and need to step back and take a look at what you are doing.
Recovering from disorientation is not always easy. The controller could have pointed out their actual heading in numbers to help them snap out of it or see if there was an equipment problem.
@@19Borneo67 If you're flying a regional jet there is no excuse
incredibly poor CRM
Interesting all the comments about how bad of a pilot she is...typically, pilot monitoring will be on the radio, while PIC flies the aircraft, however, it would help explain task overload if she was both PIC and on the radio, in which case shame on the pilot monitoring for not helping out. Hard to know without being in the cockpit. Obvi some serious confusion with what the airplane was doing vs instructions from ATC given she readback the heading a couple times before asking to verify. Appreciate the comment about the controller needing to verify indicated heading with the pilot, would have helped clear up some confusion. Either way, good job on the controller to maintain separation with approaching aircraft in a busy airspace and thankful everyone kept a cool head.
You are correct. Two pilots had to mess up in order for this to happen. The pilot on the radio is almost certainly the PM, while the other pilot is flying. The only time the pilot flying handles the radio is during an emergency when the PM runs the appropriate emergency checklist. If there was something wrong with their instruments, they should have said as much. My mind is boggled as to how this happened.
poor CRM, poor knowledge of aircraft instruments, poor knowledge of aircraft system
they are lucky that the airport is not surrounded by mountains and/or they are not in a non-English speaking country.
The pilot in command is hired using the same DEI qualifications as the ignorant copilot. Neither had a clue. Dumb and dumber.
Diversity hiring policies at work
A simple heading is the most basic direction ATC can issue. To get that wrong over and over and never say a word should get her fired immediately.
Yeah whatever.
Except she would not have been pilot flying.
Would be interesting to know if they put the 'right' parallel runway in as the departure profile instead of the' left' which they actually departed on. This has happened multiple times before and will happen again. The FMC and INS align on the programmed departure runway point when take off thrust is applied which would give you instrument errors initially after take off (immediate right turn after take off to intercept the 'right' runway departure course) . Once airborne a combination of DME/DME, VOR/VOR cross checking would slowly resolve the ambiguity.
Just a theory!
I've checked and this flight usually departed 30R back in March. Would be interesting to know if 12L was a last minute change that day.
They couldn't change the heading because they were probably following the FMS route clearance and were not in HDG mode.
No earthly valid excuse or cover for that chitchow
@@RetreadPhoto What are talking about and what do excuses have to do with my comment?
Ridiculous
Well, then put it in heading mode!!!!!
Nothing you said makes sense, just FYI. Not in the sense that I don’t understand what you mean, but that it’s not how an aircraft FMC works. Doesn’t matter what runway was used in previous flights, that has no bearing on this specific day. Doesn’t matter if they gave them a different heading/departure, that’s a simple fix that wouldn’t explain all this. Stick with the flightsim, learn more, comment less. You’re just going to confuse people who aren’t familiar (including yourself)
Making a mistake by setting heading 010 or 005 is okay ( everyone makes mistake), but it is not okay that she did not make correction as instructed again and again.
The instructions were bad. After they overshot the turn, they controller should have helped shake out the cobwebs.
Why that plane was allowed to continue there flight is a mystery! Can’t allow planes flying through the NAS that don’t know which direction they are going.
The whole company is a DEI joke.
Another ATP FLIGHT SCHOOL grad! Just wait….
where the fuck is the captain.... and if she is the captain.... yeah.... no... end DEI for pilots, qualified is qualified...
Yes. A typical DEI hire by an airline incapable of hiring on merit.
Why no "we have a phone number" for obvious departure SID deviation?
Considering that that runway used is already oriented at 120 this should be a short left turn to get on assigned heading 105. Pilot needs to check instruments but common sense and pre take off brief should tell you that turning right after take off will take away from your assigned heading. From there she was so confused .........
I was waiting for, "Endeavor 5002, possible pilot deviation..." They were SO far off course I'm amazed they didn't get violated.
They don’t need to give you a number to report you. They filed a report for sure.
The Endeavor bring your kid to work day.
If I didn’t know any better, I thought I was watching a VATSIM pilot
So if she is on the radio who was operating the autopilot?
Somebody was not doing the basics, and it definitely wasn't tower.
That wasn’t normal…. Maybe 005 was confused with 105…. Holy heck
If that was a 172, you'd have gotten a number after the 12th time ATC told you to turn 105. I really feel like she had 005 on her mind. I did this once in class C so I can't judge. ATC caught it pretty quick and got me straight, so who am I to criticize.
There's a whiskey compass in this thing. Just the most bizarre conduct I have seen in a while. They have to make a slight leftward adjustment of their course after takeoff and instead they turn all the way around to North and it looked like they were going to make a left turn all the way around 300° to their assigned heading. Just crazy.
This what DEI looks like in action. It’s getting very dangerous
What was the other person in this cockpit doing? Where they really both THAT incompetent? How did she get any aviation license? Why stayed ATC so calm? Why no number?..... I have so many questions... I hope the FAA too...
There was a complete lack of communication in that cockpit. I have a 20 spot that says the PF was pulling a “big swinging dich” moment. I’d love to read that ASAP report.
It didn’t help that (at least looking at the track data) the second time they were told “Left heading 105” they were already through 090 and in a left turn. That only adds to confusion and disorientation. Probably why a subsequent call from the fee was “confirm LEFT 105”, because they would have been thinking ‘that’s a full orbit over the field and they didn’t say anything about that’. Hence the double check.
There may have been nothing wrong other than an initial minor mistake to the right after departure, a misunderstanding of a 005 heading, then through 105 when told ‘left 105’.
These things happen. Reports are (or should be) filed, and it’s looked into by both parties to better understand the events.
No big deal. Calmly handled by ATC. No conflict. Just a couple of errors on both parts.
That's what I thought, but the video is clearly off based on the conversation. 105 was never left of their heading, and wheen he showed them going north, they were going northeast. I think bad editing.
Absolutely! Basic human factors understanding says to me that you don't tell someone to turn after they've overshot their turn! You need to tell them point blank that they turned too far, they're off heading, and to turn back, turn right to 105. That might have cleared the cobwebs and got them back on track. Why does everyone want them to give them a phone number - that's not really the point of all this, right?
Is she drunk? Sounds very out of it.
No. Just an airhead that should not have a drivers license let alone be in a cockpit. DEI hire.
Outright incompetence from Endeavor 5002. At least they knew how to level out at 7,000’.
Should never have given them the vote.
And people wonder why I don't want to fly anymore...
Endeavor 5002 seemed to be working on her instrument rating !
She said, "I think its back to normal". Could have been a legit issue.
If it were a legit issue, then they were required to let ATC know.
@@jsmith1746 It can be a legit issue without them knowing it's a legit issue yet. If you're disoriented and/or are getting conflicting information then it's not always easy to figure out what reality is. It happens. Go play flight simulator for 40 hours this week and see how many times it happens to you.
OK, so I have no flight experience from either side, so I might knot know what I'm talking about.... Wouldn't it be normal for ATC to call out that the flight has not complied with instructions? They keep repeating the same instruction, and while some here feel that the pilots should take this as some sort of indication that something is wrong, I don't see that there should be a reliance on that. Probably there was pilot error and they thought they were flying 105, or an instrument error said they were on 105. In any case, confirmation bias probably comes into play here. Shouldn't ATC call them out on the incorrect heading explicitly?
I live right by MSP but she didn’t overfly my place as she went the opposite direction.
She didn't sound very confident
MSP controllers are awesome but when the controller saw the plane on a steady track that obviously wasn't as assigned, I was surprised he didn't ask "What is your heading right now?"
What was the final outcome?
Was it an equipment malfunction?
Does anybody know why this happened?
What sad is we have to fly with them as pilots.
Geomagnetic storm caused IRSs to fail and magnetic compass to misread so they couldn't hold a heading?
Aircraft way ahead of flight crew. Need more sim time.
They told her turn left initially and then to turn right with the same heading.
DEI hire
So what happened here? Did they get a number? Did they go back to flight school? Something had to come of this.
🔀🔄🔃🔁⏬⬆️⬇️↔️... All good here, Endeavor 5002 🤪
Controller should have said fly EAST NOW….and then make some adjustments……plus a frequency change with an area code in front of it!
If you take the autopilot out of the equation, is there any way to manually fly the plane & check the navigation? I have to imagine if ATC keeps telling you that you're way off, you'd want to some checks. I also agree that she sounded young and inexperienced. Her readbacks a) were sometimes wrong b) she didn't acknowledge anything such as "i notice you keep telling me i'm way off my course but my equipment is telling me i'm flying at a heading of 105"...(i'm just a fan of the channel, i'm not a pilot)
Yes of course we can manually fly the plane. But that wasn't needed here. They just needed to engage heading mode and select heading 105. Very simple.
The fact that she's the one speaking on the radio means she is NOT the one who was flying. The other pilot was flying. Nonetheless it's still her responsibility as the pilot monitoring to make sure that the pilot flying is following ATC's instructions. Both her and the pilot flying failed in this scenario.
They clearly didn't follow instructions while not giving a valid reason as to why they were unable to follow the clearance.
Yeah, every commercial jet has multiple compasses, and you can just turn. That’s what you’re a pilot for.
Yes! And every instrument rated pilot is trained to recognise and handle instrument failures. This was inexcusable!
Wow so so weird that the controllers never asked why they were not following instructions and just guessed they had
a problem . On the other side is good to see how chill they are. In Europe for something like this controllers would have been totally freaked out , in Germany for example .. anyway they really should have given a phone number to understand why the pilots acknowledged the instructions without following them ..
Those Germans are freaky anyway...as we all know.
Someone was getting (and someone giving) a hummer?
Someone's EFIS COMP MON was EFIS COMP MON-ing
ATC: We're still waiting for you to turn proper heading. Also, your squawk code was 7295, not 7500
100? Close enough.
If it was my voice on the radio I would have been violated immediately with a number to call
DEI hire.
Do people not know that shes Pilot Monitoring? Like there is another pilot who is not making the radio calls who is not doing the turn. Stop saying its just her
And given that she does sound pretty young and maybe even inexperienced, it's safe to say that there is someone senior to her sitting in the left seat, and actually flying the plane.
@@ChrisCooper312 Even an inexperienced pilot should know how to properly read the heading.
@@UnrealNarcissist I mean maybe? but maybe we should be focusing on the person who didnt turn the airplane. Id rather someone fuck up the radio call but we nail the 105 heading haha
@@MatthewRobinson-n1c it’s not just her but really she is incompetent not monitoring
They were both incompetent here. Most likely a captain that upgraded too early flying with a newer first officer. Happens all then time. Been in the industry for almost 30 years.
this is like the next generation Air China 981
Frightening that they hire pilots who are that clueless!
At what point do you have them intercepted and escorted back to Minneapolis? That crew clearly was not in command of their aircraft.
“Following the Magenta line” flying…maybe….I’m clueless on this one. Never got close to HDG 105….kinda spooky.
How was she allowed to keep ignoring the turn command without being told to call the number?
The point is to prevent disaster, not to have a trial for every speeding ticket.
When they give a MSFS squeaker a regional jet….
And now you know why these new entitled Incapable pilots scare me
My first lesson was in a Cessna. This person uses a CRJ
The number of armchair airline pilots commenting on this who don't understand something as simple as the concept that the pilot flying isn't the one on the radios is hilarious.
Somehow, you all are qualified to chalk this up to hiring practices all while you aren't educated enough to understand some of the most basic concepts of CRM in the industry.
It's a bunch of misogynistic creeps, you can just see the insecurities of their manhood screaming in the ridiculousness of their comments. This coming from a 50 year old white male, who has been in this business for 30 years.
U TV mad bro?
If it was CRM you dumb shit, they would’ve made the correction. Go back to flying on Microsoft flight simulator
Novice in aviation here. Something about this seems terribly wrong. What is going on?
I have no proof but I also have no doubt that the first entry on the AP heading panel was HDG 150 and then tried to correct it instead of using 105 they put 050. 😅
Why didn’t ATC give them a divination. Not doing their job either.
Anyone else hear "situation normal" in Han Solo's voice in their head at the end?
I thought reading a compass was a basic skill needed for aviation!
Really poor communication skills from the pilot on the radio. ATC was looking for an explanation and she was oblivious…
So they basically made a U-turn, 180 degrees off course, headed directly towards downtown Minneapolis, and military jets weren't scrambled?
Why would military jets be scrambled? Is there an SFRA over downtown Minneapolis? Was there a VIP TFR that day?
Bad driving AND flying.. shocked here.
Geez. I wonder if she can find her car in the parking lot. Or maybe Mommy dropped her off.
I don’t get it. Is this her first day flying…? She’s spaced out on the radios.
Sounds like a squentialist -- cannot climb and turn at the same time.
Or maybe she can't hold a course while climbing and can't climb while holding a course.
Will it make her YT channel?