Deconstructing Adam and Eve | Why Eden Was a Set Up
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2022
- What really happened in the garden of Eden, and who's really to blame? In this episode, I'm unpacking the story of Adam and Eve as taught in most fundamentalist and conservative churches. I'll make the case for why there is only one bad guy in this story- and it isn't Adam, Eve or the serpent.
Do you agree? Disagree? Let me know in the comments below!
Please keep in mind that all everything I say here is my subjective opinion, and is intended to deconstruct fundamentalist/evangelical/conservative Christian ideologies from an ex christian perspective
Why I left Christianity | • From Holy To Heretic |...
Why I make ex-christian deconstruction content | • Why I Make Ex-Christia...
Goodreads | / kristi-burke
Follow me on tiktok | www.tiktok.com/@kristi.burke?...
Follow me on Instagram | / jezebelvibes
Check out my merch | www.Jezebelvibes.com/shop
Need resources for religious trauma? Visit Recovering From Religion | www.recoveringfromreligion.org/
Outro Music | "Pixels" by Jeff Kaale
tags | Ex christian, deconstructing christianity, exvangelical, former fundie, leaving christianity, gospels, jesus, bible, god, christian, evangelism, apologist, atheist vs christian, agnostic, recovering from religion
Without original sin, the whole church falls apart, the whole patriarchy falls apart, control of women falls apart.
Does sin exist?
Sin is a religious invention and the God of the Bible is completely useless controlling his automatons 😂😅
And it should!
Original sin is not on Earth, but it WAS in Heaven (Rev 12:7-9). Church is not a building (Matthew 18:20). Authority did not exist until the fall of mankind (Genesis 3:16b). Women are not to be viewed less than (1 Corinthians 11:11-12). The Bible warns about false Christians and false churches teaching false doctrine.
Matthew 7:15-20
“15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”
@@TallGlass-fh8qf so what now
@@FamilyIsGone Psalm 146:3-4
“3 Do not put your trust in princes,
in human beings, who cannot save.
4 When their spirit departs, they return to the ground;
on that very day their plans come to nothing.
Matthew 11:28-30
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
God: This fruit is forbidden!
Adam: What does "forbidden" mean?
God: You'll find out when you eat the forbidden fruit.
😂😂
What's really funny is that since it's a completely fictional story couldn't they have at least made it so that it doesn't make God look bad LOL so their own BS didn't even accomplish making their God look good. Otherwise the way she breaks it down is almost as if she believes that it all really happened but she's just disagreeing with the way God orchestrated and handled it
Men didn't fail
Women failed God man didn't fail God women failed so the serpent knew who to attack
@@adynathaly3145 "Women?" Plural? How many were there at the time? You can't blame multiple women for the sin of one woman.
What always bothered me about that story is, how can one be expected to understand the concept of something being forbidden, without already having knowledge of good and evil in the first place?
I've always wondered that, too. On a similar note, what good would it do...to threaten them about eating the fruit, that they would die? These are people who have only been alive a short while...and nothing had died yet. They had no real experience, with almost everything. They had no adolescense...no childhood...its doubtful they even had navels! Some threat that would have made
@darylp8564 it wasn't a threat, he was saying what would happen, actions have consequences, there's no indication that nothing had died yet
@@travishofer8051 but if they had no knowledge of good or evil, they had no concept of whether eating the fruit would be bad or not. Supposedly. And if God knows everything, including what's going to happen in the future, he knew what was going to happen before hand. It would not have been a surprise. Which kind of makes it his responsibility. He set it up to happen knowing it would happen beforehand. So why would they be punished for carrying out his plan? Especially if they had no knowledge of good and evil. Why not teach them the difference between good and evil? Why immediately go to eternal punishment? The whole story doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
I guess it was a set it up after all god knew what was going to happen.
"The Holey...by Bull"
A compilation written by Trypophiles
Great video! My husband and I were just discussing this a few weeks ago, and our exact words were “they were set up for failure and then punished for failing!”
That's all of Christianity in a nutshell.
We must be careful about that concept because it is quite false and a bad mishmash of different elements. While we see it as a certainty looking back and God knew what they would do with foreknowledge, etc. He didn't cause them to disobey them and we can rightly expect them to take full responsibility for what they decided to do.
@@hj925 It's a good thing that human made Gods and religions aren't real and that people can wake up out their indoctrination. You likely don't worry about disobeying any other God's from other religions, that is a big clue.
@@annemurphy8074 You need to say that if you are the complete unbeliever you sound like, but while that is often true, it's a very foolish stand when there is evidence that demands a verdict. Saying that, it's your choice and guilt is a dangerous thing to base Christian faith on in any case - awareness of sin and separation from God should not be expressed in the kind of guilt that you are talking about because true Christianity should neutralise your likely sort of guilt. But one piece of advice in relation to Burke. If you were told the same as her then you were misinformed about some important truths. More importantly, she really still has little idea of the subject. For example, her interpretation post-flood of God "apologising" is deluded or genuinely ignorant. Not someone to take any notice of either way
@@hj925 There is zero evidence for Gods of any of the thousands of religions in the world. I'm not a "believer". I do my best go go with facts and try my best to think critically. I pretty much realized it was all fake when I was a kid when I would get in trouble for asking questions at church. It took much longer to really deconstruct what others had tried so hard to plant in my mind. You're not there yet but if you ever deconstruct, as so many have and the way Kristi has, then there can be a meaningful dialogue. She is doing wonderful work along with so many others helping people come out of their indoctrination and gain real freedom from the chains that were installed on their minds. So many people have been enslaved by so many various religions and cults. Religion isn't bad on it's own, it's just stories, it's the way it is used to control and abuse people that is despicable.
Whenever I hear this story, I can't help but remember the quip, "Adam blamed Eve; Eve blamed the serpent; and the serpent didn't have a leg to stand on."
Lol 👍
Another thing that's funny is that it's completely a fictional story so if we can break it down and it makes God look bad that's pretty sad because they could have just made up their fictional story to make God look good LMAO otherwise we're on here breaking it down as if we believe it really happened but we just disagree with the way God handled it
Didn't the serpent walk on legs tho? She said something about that at the very beginning
Adam blamed God! "The woman YOU put her, she gave me to eat."
Adam and Eve were telling the truth that the serpent deceived them. The serpent was a Liar from the beginning.
Another interesting thing is that it took the serpent like six verses to talk Eve into eating the apple. It took Eve one sentence to talk Adam into doing so.
Great observation
She's his love and wife❤. So he has to please her by eating the apple that she gave to him.
C'mon... straight men, gay men,... everyone is fascinated by breasts. Of course it was easy to convince Adam.
@@NicoBGC everyone in WESTERN culture is fascinated with breasts. Read some anthropology. Gee...I wonder why western men have that problem...maybe you were all weaned too early poor babies....by the way...gay men don't really care about breasts either.
How many sentences do you prefer? Anyway, its the first recorded case of a man foolishly trusting his wife's judgement.
Since i started watching you, ive never been so inspired by someone, people are fighting so hard to ignore the reality and buy bullshit
Was the serpent evil? Because we’re often told evil came into the world at the time of the fall. But if the serpent was evil then evil existed in this “perfect world” before the fall
Yep also What was an evil deceiver talking serpent even doing in a perfect place LOL
I love your take on Adam and Eve and your analogy with a baby in the playpen. It’s like a father putting toys in the playpen and a loaded gun and telling the baby not to play with the gun. I’d love to hear the father’s defense when the police show up because the baby fired the gun. “It’s not my fault. The baby has free will, officer. When I placed the gun in the playpen, I told him not to play with it but he did anyway. What a bad and awful baby! I’m throwing him right out of my house! Officer, why are you putting those cuffs on my wrist? I didn’t do anything wrong. It’s all that evil baby! I know how to fix this. I’ll crucify my other son, so that then I can forgive this baby for firing the gun. Oh, Jesus, can you come down here for a minute? Wait, officer, let me go! Where are you taking me?”
Exactly lol. Gawd made sin and evil in its impossible magical complex complicated image to destroy it for existing and knowledge and torture us for da fun of it to realize how God waz probably da villain to deny and know it all dis time of God evil.
YES 💯🙌
except the tree of the knowledge of g and e is not an actual tree placed in the middle of the garden...making this story pointless
@BeefStew-kv9vq I agree totally with your first statement, but I don’t agree that makes it pointless. Trying to take it literally is what makes it pointless IMHO!
I love your analogy! No analogies are perfect but I dig this one.
IMO the Eden story makes most sense if you assume it was the answer given to a child who was continually asking "Daddy, why do you have to go to work? Daddy, why is the ground hard? Daddy, why is mummy in pain? Daddy, why dont snakes have legs?"
Four results of "The Eviction"
Funny, it's never a child who asks those questions, just adults...like Adam and Eve.
😮that is just stupidity
@@alexturchick240children ask that frequently
@@raysalmon6566 if you're referring to "Daddy, why do you have to go to work?" and ,"...,why is mommy in pain?" then you are correct children ask that frequently primarily because they just want to spend time with their parents and not see their parents in pain.
But only the truly inquisitive children ask about the ground and the snakes, the rest don't. And even fewer children take the time to figure it out themselves, or just understand.
But most children don't.
When I heard the question "Why did God put the tree in Adam's garden", a thought came to my mind.
What if the garden was never for Adam? What if it was God's garden, belonging to him and designed for him, while Adam was no more than an additional pet, a puppet, an alive piece of furniture for God to look at?
God doesn't want his pet to know good and evil - he wants it to be thoughtless and ignorant, doing silly things for God's amusement. He creates Adam first, so this intent of his is reflected in Adam exactly how God wants. However, after some time God understands: pet is alone - pet is bored - pet isn't doing as much silly things as it could've been; and here's when he makes Adam a companion, Eve. But Eve isn't made only by God himself - Adam's rib is also involved in her making, somehow lessening the influence of God's intent to see his pets thoughtless. Thus, Eve gains intuition and curiosity; and while Adam is out there rolling on his back or doing whatever he can for God's amusement, Eve goes exploring the garden and finds the tree. Adam, still being completely thoughtless, comes after her and just stays there while she talks to the serpent. The serpent's intent is hard to define - maybe it wants humans to become something better than just another kind of pets in God's garden, maybe it even hopes for them to overthrow God one day, or maybe it just wants pets to get smarter and more interesting to watch. However, it does tell them the truth about the tree - unlike God, who plays on their primal fear of death to keep pets away from the table, I mean tree (because, again, he wants pets to stay silly) - and Eve, having acknowledged the usefulness of it, takes a bite and offers Adam to do the same. Adam, being as thoughtless as God wanted him to be, takes a bite too. They understand good and evil, and also understand that now they aren't silly anymore. Some time later God walks through his garden, calling his pets in a "kitty-kitty" manner, and when they finally show up and turn out to be too smart to amuse him, he gets angry, throws a tantrum and curses everyone. Eve gets the hardest punishment because she's the most independent, and angry God wants to break her spirit; Adam is put above her for the same reason (maybe God did fear a possibility of being overthrown, huh?), and the serpent is most likely deprived not only of his legs, but also of his intelligence, becoming a new silly belly-crawling pet for God, like Adam once was. And at the end God sends Adam and Eve down to Earth, where he from now on can see - and stage - the most emotional and intricated spectacles he could ever imagine. With all the evil and all the suffering. Again, for his selfish amusement...
This is imaginative, but it presumes that God is as petty and malevolent as most of the tyrants who have ruled this world. The challenge is not in creating a docile and obedient pet. It is in parenting a child until it becomes a spiritual adult. As humans we have been given opportunities to participate in that process and learn what it means be good examples to our offspring. Not the same as being God, but close in principle, as can be evidenced by Jesus calling God by the name "abba" or spiritual "Father." I'd consider any entity who interferes with the best efforts of loving parents to be a true villain. Wouldn't you?
Another thing, why did God allow or create a serpent to have a voice like a human, it sounds ludacris, imagine all animals or creatures having a voice 😅, Lucifer transformed into a snake
Adam's garden?
eh, seems kinda speculative and agenda based. if we still assume god is all powerful and everything why not just take back the knowledge they gained from eating the fruit? why not just put them on chains or something, try to discipline them like how you do with pets cuz they don't always follow you. what's the point of putting one above the other if you're just gonna banish both of them from the garden anyway? i mean i'm all for desconstructing and thinking about this story but this ain't it chief
@@xaevius5319 You are right and the problem is the agenda. Most people are quick to point the finger of blame at anyone others than themselves. God cannot offer free will and still keep control of the outcome. People ASSUME that God is in full control and fail to realize that they are each captains of his/her own ship. Instead of seeing that Adam and Eve were deceived into making bad choices, they prefer to blame God for setting up mankind. Do they fail to see that things were going pretty well until the serpent slithered out of the grass? Perhaps the word "punish" raises an immediate red flag in the minds of the Sheeple who are too ignorant to appreciate the gifts that God gave them.
I love the Adam and Eve story. You can really pick it apart in so many ways that reveals the silliness of it. One way, that I've never heard anyone consider is time. How long were they in the garden before this event happened?
Now at first it might seem irrelevant or meaningless to ask that question, but if you really consider it, there is more silliness that arises. It's actually a very important question to ask because it can change a lot on how the story is viewed.
Great point. Like your in the presence of an all powerful GOD for days? Weeks? Months? And you do the one thing he tells you not to do 😭 Also god created the serpent and knew it would tempt his creation thus dooming the billions that comes after them.
@@AnonymousCommenter. Yep exactly. Imagine they were in the garden for a few thousand years before the partaking of the tree of knowledge occurred.
I think one reason time is never brought up is because it changes the feeling of the story. If it had said they were there for hundreds of years and then this event happened, many questions start to pop up in your head.
It also comes down to the "child" will break a rule eventually given enough time.
They fell the same day. That is why 6 is number of men. They never entered into God rest which is seventh day of Creation because of their disobbidience
It is only silly to silly people.
@@Michael-Archonaeus people that know how to think critically
Thirty years ago, in my early 20s, I was feeling guilty about normal human desires, and I concluded that perhaps I didn’t really have a good grasp of my faith, so I agreed to submit to a Bible study with some older women in my congregation as if I was someone off the street learning my religion. I now know that I was very depressed, and rightly so. But at the time I thought the study would “fix” me. So we reviewed the story of Adam and Eve, and this sweet, nurturing woman beamed at me and said, “Aren’t we so fortunate to have such a loving, patient God, who instead of killing Adam and Eve immediately, allowed them to live and have children, so that we exist today?” My response completely surprised myself, and absolutely astounded my “teachers.” I said, “I am not thankful! I’m not appreciative! I’m miserable, and supposedly it’s all Adam & Eve’s fault? If God had destroyed them, life would not be so terrible and humans would not be suffering! I don’t think that’s loving at all!”
That was the first original thought I had ever had, and I had no idea that I was capable of having thoughts that opposed the official story line. It still took me 15 more years to break away from Christianity, but that was the beginning of thinking for myself. When I left my religion, it wasn’t because I no longer believed. I totally believed, and I was positive that I was choosing eternal death. But I had decided that I’d rather be dead than pretend to love the god of the Bible any longer. Only later was I able to decide that I don’t need to believe things that don’t make sense, and so I’m no longer Christian. Although I kind of think the Christ of the Bible was not a bad dude, and that MAYBE if the religion were REALLY based on him, it would actually be a pleasant world. But I doubt it.
You can feel better to know that The bible was written by anonymous authors who never met Jesus. Paul/Saul never met Jesus. There's no historical evidence of Jesus or Moses.
How many times has the Bible been altered?
Over 30,000 changes were made, of which more than 5,000 represent differences between the Greek text used for the Revised Version and that used as the basis of the King James Version. Most of the other changes were made in the interest of consistency or modernization.
King James I of England (1566 - 1625)
Young as “the most prominent homosexual figure in the early modern period.” Married to Anne of Denmark, James is thought to have had relationships with several male courtiers - most notably, George Villiers, whom he made the Earl and later the Duke of Buckingham. ... See the hypocrisy? It's all a tool for manipulation
Its written in John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son”. God wants to save you not condemn you but are u willingly to accept that.
@@trooperslayer5910 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the LORD do all these things. [8] Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
@trooperslayer5910 the loving caring God sent his only son to be tortured to death it's all man made BS lol
@@undrwatropium3724I might agree with most of what you said. But there is historical evidence for Jesus
I remember being a kid and learning about Adam and Eve and asking my mom “But I didn’t do anything wrong.. why do I have to have labor pains??” I wasn’t buying it even then 😂
You would've done the same had you been in Eden. We all would. That's why it's fair to us. God gave them perfect conditions and only one rule to follow but they still sinned against Him. It was very serious and they were not children. God sent us a redeemer. Satan sought to kill two Innocents. God didn't send him a redeemer.
@@timothybuckley7317We all would've done the same, because it was not a free choice. It was determined.
@@timothybuckley7317 Well first of all, the story of Adam and Eve is just that: fiction.
But if you want to take this literally, you should be clear that you are trapped in a structure of thought that is very difficult to break out of and that can negatively influence your whole life.
Except they didn't know it was perfect. They hardly knew anything.
They did not... know... good, from evil... or stakes to other lives.
If they did - you prove it, son. Or maybe go ask them?
Call up, the Witch of Endor - if you must.
I am not convinced, that 99.9999 percent of us, would, if they had both obeyed... even EXIST, in fact.
If nobody ever dies, and a few more get born, for a while... then how many humans, do you need, to actually SUBDUE and till the Earth? Surely, a lot less, than the dozens of billions born to this point?
And there was no 'us'. We might have made the same choice... but only based on how we were designed.
Like, one third of every 'happy' angel, in heaven... was designed?
Clearly, several feathers, short of a wing... or carets, short of a halo?
At very least, in Satan's case.
Also, Eve, did not... die... in 'the day'. Genesis 3:22, admits it. Openly.
And Satan could keep powers... and roam about. And come up, to talk silly points, about Job.
And can be released AGAIN, post Tribulation... and after, a 1000 year Kingdom, too?
Also, I assume, the Holy Spirit... did not Like, the comment you posted...
So presumably, you did...? Just a hunch.@@timothybuckley7317
When I was a kid my mother used to tell me that it was a stork, crane, a flamingo type of bird that bring babies, end of the story.
You are a breath of fresh air. Animated and interesting. Asking many of the same questions I have asked myself. Going straight to the important questions, "It was a set-up from the beginning. WHY?"
One question (of many) that I had was 'why would they be embarrassed to be naked by gaining knowledge'. Being embarrassed is usually a learned trait.
Edit: It also never states anywhere that the serpent in the garden was Satan/Lucifer. It was always just a serpent.
All future snakes were cursed for what that snake did. Not some demon father of lies, but an actual, from thence on crawling on its belly, craftier than all the other beasts God made, heel striking, snake.
@@ufgrad2008 Why was it punished? For telling the truth? The serpent was the only one in that story who didn’t lie.
That petulant 2 yr old god. Always throwing temper tantrums when it doesn't get it's way. "God can do whatever he wants cause he made us"... Sounds pretty abusive and especially for people already struggling with low self esteem issues... that would make someone feel less than scum on the bottom of a shoe 👟
C'mon now...a talking snake? Exactly what you would read in children's literature or see in Disney movies, which you can find in the "fiction" categories.
I believe the serpent was our reptilian brain, which was condemned by nature, when we evolved bigger and more complex brains, to take the back seat because now the pre-frontal cortex would be running things.
This is like a parent setting out all kinds of things in the kitchen and including a bowl of candy and telling your kids that you can eat any of this but not from the bowl of candy. And the kid eats from the candy. And the parent's immediate response is "Uh-oh! Someone's gotta die!" Punishment doesn't really fit the crime. Set someone up to fail and then punish them.
Great point of view
The crime?... Big crime ... I'll tell you why. It took a lot of time, thought, and effort to create Adam. Adam was God's gift to this universe. Perfect, immortal, and in God's image. Adam was basically king. God gave him freewill by telling him to name the animals. Long story short. Adam changed god's perfect universe by introducing duality. When he bit into the fruit, consciousness was expanded, allowing one to fear, to shame, to know what death meant.
@@danhtran6401 Why was Adam punished for doing what god supposedly already knew he would do? If god is supposedly omniscient, he already saw exactly what would happen. So god sets the dominos in motion anyway but then punishes Adam for doing what god already knew he would do? Where is the justice in that? How fair is that? And at the time Adam ate the fruit, he had no knowledge of good and evil. He wouldn't have know it was wrong to do what god told he and Eve not to. That came after the fact. So he gets punished for doing something wrong when he didn't even have the understanding of what wrong was. And then all of humanity gets condemned too? What nonsense. Very grateful the whole scenario is a work of fiction.
@@stevenhogenson4880 because up to that point, God provided everything for Adam. He had nothing to do but inherit God's creation. This universe is apart from others, ruled by Adam. The only way for Adam to appreciate what God has done is he must learn. Like Lucifer, the ultimate punishment was not being able to be in God's presence....
@@danhtran6401 you dont get it,,, If god is an all knowing god, he knew Adam would do exactly as he did... so it was all a set up....as Kristi is saying...
one day my mother, an evangelical lady, told me in our many discussions about the bible, god and religion that "to be a christian you need to follow everything blindly, without questioning" and that made a lot of sense. this is why i am no longer a believer because i refuse to live by rules that make no sense to me and the more i learn about christianity the more i find it so controversial.
this video is a gem! i'm glad that youtube recommended it to me! long live your channel 🙌🏻
Did your mother ever consider how easy it would be for the devil to impersonate God if she never asked questions? Shouldn't God want her to ask away because he has nothing to hide?
Well that was simply your choice from hearing something your mother shouldn't have really said, I honestly don't know why she told you to just blindly follow it, I choose to look deeper and find proof in the religion
Your mother was and is right. My mom was the same, and I thank God for it. Do not let the society change your feelings and views about your true Father.
@@addictedtonotsmoking2893 what if she asked and asked and asked and then god answered. Not all is black and white
@@Wallmart5 faith and Jesus Christ are the proof
Former fundie here. For the first 20 years of my life I spent summers at "church camp", did the youth group, church activities, you name it. But as time went on, I began to question and finally broke away. You make valid points here and I long ago came to the same conclusions you have. When you boil it down, this is seeing through the church teachings and finally figuring out that the God they preach about is the one who invented the game, along with the rules, the playing field, the arena and the "opposition"; and oh, by the way, he's also the referee. It's all a set up to fail, with a bar set impossibly high. Set up so that the church maintains control. Even "saved" people need to continually re-affirm and repent to save themselves from simply being human. It's bizarre and wrong.
I was never a fan of the so-called "Christian" youth group. It seems that a lot of this negativity towards Christianity is their lack of a relationship with Jesus Christ.
I could have gotten involved with church government, trying to fit in, participate in church activities-but I knew that by doing those things, it was not going to solve my problems.
I decided to follow the commands of Jesus Christ, knock on doors, visit the sick and dying at the nursing homes and visit those in prisons. I encouraged them that just because they are in prison, God can't use them. The God I worship gives second, third and fourth chances. Those that were at death's door that Jesus was calling them home and not to fear. The blessings that came from that was immense: I had 22 years to go on my mortgage. I refinanced for 15 years and prayed that it would be approved. It was and I managed to pay it off in 12 years. The same month I paid off the mortgage was the same month my wife was diagnosed with a degenerative disease. I could now afford a home health aide. One of many blessings.
I stand with Polycarp, when he was forced to choose between death or denying Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior and start worshipping the Roman gods, he declared "86 years I have served him, and he has done me no wrong,. How can I blaspheme my King and my Savior?"
Thank you for sharing your experience. Many former believers have similar stories, realizing that religion often serves to maintain control rather than promote spiritual growth and understanding. I'm glad to hear that you've found your way out of that cycle.
@@elusive2300 Make no mistake. I am still a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. But thank you for writing.
@@vadouis-rt3of oh sorry. My comment was for @elmanite1
@@elusive2300 No problem.
OMG WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!
I'm so glad to have found your channel!
I finally feel like someone gets it!
I've thought these things and said/shared some of them and it's never gone well..
I left the church and blindly believing in the doctrine years ago, but I'm still deconstructing.
I still believe in God(or a Creator), just not the way I was taught.
Ultimately, I'm just trying to figure out my belief system overall.
An I thank you for what you're doing.
It is timely, insightful, and helpful.
You don't have to put a knife in a playpen to teach children about choosing toys to play with .... very eloquently said!
[EDIT: The comment you're reading is false doctrine, this is corrected in my replies to follow.]
God didn't create that tree, so definitely could not have placed it in the middle of the garden. In Genesis 2, all of the trees are written to have 2 characteristics. In Genesis 3, the one tree being offered to the woman by the serpent is written to have had 3 characteristics. That means that particular tree was not God's, so He did not put that there.
@@cfudgy2 I have heard this assertion before, but a plan and a happening cannot co-exist. One must be chosen...was it a plan that God set in place, or was it something that God let happen? Legitimate question I want you to consider. It can't be both.
@@cfudgy2 A plan is intentional, a happening is accidental or circumstance.
I must correct myself@@cfudgy2. When the Bible says God made everything, it is referring to origin. God created angels of light and life, the fallen angels used their free choice to reject these which only means they must become of darkness and death. If it were not for God giving them the option to accept or reject Him, they would not have been able to become something else.
Darkness is the absence of light, so light must exist first...darkness has no origin. Death is the absence of life, so life must exist first...death has no origin. So, they are not originators...just recreators. When the Bible says God created everything it includes those "recreators" in the sense of origin...it doesn't mean creation in the all-inclusive (literal) sense.
But I apologize,@@cfudgy2, my OP is a false teaching and a misspeak altogether. The tree in the middle of the garden is being recreated in the eyes of the woman by deceptive words from the serpent. It does have two characteristics, but the serpent has convinced her he has another characteristic to offer her (that God is "keeping from her"). That tree is from God just as all the others were, but the recreational view of it that led to a recreational use of its fruit...is not of God, but the serpent.
Preach sister.
I came to this conclusion as a small child when I asked my mom what was the reason God created Adam and Eve? She said to take care of the animals, then I said why don't you and dad do that? That's when I realized people cherry picked what rules they wanted to follow and that the Bible was inherently impossible to follow as wrote.
Yeah me too. Lol
Adam and Eve were not the first humanoids on earth. Remember Cain was like what about the others. There were other people
Read the Bible. he created human beings for fellowship. That's why he was walking in the garden: He walked with Adam and Eve and spent time with them, until they rebelled against Him. Personal fellowship with God is at the very heart of our purpose for being.
@@darkworld5026 YOUR PURPOSE. Not mine.
@@darkworld5026 Fellowship in ignorance though?
This story was the final blow to my subtle deconstruction that creeped into my Christian journey a few years ago. This story clearly wasn't thought through. If it's inspired by God, then at least there shouldn't be all these weird fundamental flaws.
I was similar. I had shifted from devout Christian to agnostic that still kinda hoped one day to find god. But this was the story that finally pushed me to the point that the god of the Bible was hopelessly contradictory there for impossible.
You have made great mistake because of your impatience. Everything comes in time
@@Bojan12 nice claim. Can you back it up without resorting to logical fallacies?
It doesn't have to be "inspired by God" in the modern fundamentalist Christian sense, in order to make it true.
It also doesn't have to be easy for you to understand, in order to be true.
It also doesn't even have to be true, in order to have value, nor does its true value have to be apparent to you.
@@deneb3525 One word: Life
That anyone believes these stories from the pulpit is a testament to the gullibility of us humans.
You hit all the points that I’ve questioned since I was young. It’s like a game: the game designer set up the rules so that the players would fail. And then blamed the players for failing. Excellent assessment on your part!
Impossible level lol.
It sounds like you've never studied the story before, just like Kristi hasn't. It didn't happen like that at all. It was not a setup, and she is nowhere close to the truth.
When the Bible says God made everything, it is referring to origin. Darkness is the absence of light, so light must exist first...darkness has no origin. Death is the absence of life, so life must exist first...death has no origin. God created angels of light and life, the fallen angels used their free choice to reject these which only means they must become of darkness and death. If it were not for God giving them the option to accept or reject Him, they would not have even been able to become something else. So, they are not originators...just recreators. When the Bible says God created everything it includes those "recreators" in the sense of origin, not literal formation.
The tree in the middle of the garden is being recreated in the eyes of the woman by deceptive words from the serpent. It has two characteristics, but the serpent has convinced her he has another characteristic to offer her (that God is "keeping secret from her"). That tree is from God just as all the others were, but the recreational view of it that led to the recreational use of its fruit...is not of God, but the serpent. Proof is provided for you below.
Genesis 2
9 The Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that WERE [1] pleasing to the eye and [2] good for food.
Genesis 3
6 When the woman SAW that the fruit of the tree was [1] good for food and [2] pleasing to the eye, and also [3] desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.
@@TallGlass-fh8qf who cares dork. Prove your beliefs
Not a set up. Adam and Eve were given choices. They effed up. Would you love to live in a world with no choices? You'd want to shoot yourself at some point in that scenario.
I've always found telling people who don't understand the difference between good and evil not to do something super weird. How would they know that disobedience was a "bad" thing if they needed to eat the tree to know the difference between good and evil.
They did know that they should not eat of this tree and that it would be bad because they would die if they did. So they did this knowing that is was against what God told them and they decided to listen to the serpent instead of God.
@@wesleywillis5933
says a presumabIy "gr0wn aduIt "
d0 y0u teII chiIdren snakes can taIk ?
@@wesleywillis5933 but this contradicts itself then because they had at least SOME knowledge of good and evil because they not only knew disobedience to God was bad but also knew death was bad, something I don't know to this day, to me, death is neutral.
What was the purpose of the tree if they already knew what was good and bad for them?
@@bluester7177 God did not set up Adam and Eve sis. The reason God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, forbade them to not eat the fruit of it and let the serpent tempt them, it’s because God wants Adam and Eve to love him by their obedience, actions and choices. If God gave us free will and didn’t give us choices, wouldn’t that make him an unfair God?
God chose not to make human beings as robots that were preprogrammed. God is love and that requires a choice and God chose the choice to be the tree of good and evil. He told them the consequences if they disobeyed his command. They made a choice and thats free will.
My late wife used to say that getting 'saved' was like winning a new dream car but not getting the keys until you died.
I take it she had no keys waiting for her then...
🤣@@Michael-Archonaeus
yeah and it's up to god to arbitrarily give some humans good experiences here on earth and others bad
Yeah, and then you find out the tank is empty and there is no road to drive on anyway.
You nailed it. Why i no longer go to church. It gave me freedom to be who i wanna be and can work on hobbies i can enjoy.
The church stopped you from being free and doing hobbies like what?
Someone needs to make a horror movie based on all this.
There would be so many angry Christians!
ASAP , this new generation is not as dumb anymore , it's definitely needed !
@@chrissyscholl816So what? Is there anything they're not angry about?
@@alejandroruiz2253No they're just as dumb, just in different ways.
The Mandela Catalogue here on TH-cam by Alex Kister actually seems to be drawing some inspiration from this.
When i was about 19 my Christian girlfriend took me to a bible study where the pastor was preaching the story of adam and eve. My take was exactly the same as yours and we got in a pretty heated debate. I wasn't invited back to bible study.
Another thing that's funny is that it's completely a fictional story so if we can break it down and it makes God look bad that's pretty sad because they could have just made up their fictional story to make God look good LMAO otherwise we're on here breaking it down as if we believe it really happened but we just disagree with the way God handled it
So a fundamentalist Christian met an immature Atheist, what could possibly go wrong?🤣
@@Michael-Archonaeus a butthurt christian got hold of a keyboard and a youtube account.....
This is difficult for true believers to digest. The idea of a loving God was instilled in them from an early age. And then comes the hammer of eternal damnation. How does this fit with a loving God?
But here comes the true salvation: God is a fiction and we need not fear damnation.
I have to start this from a place of Truth. God is VERY VERY REAL. He has performed miracles through me with WITNESSES and many more without witnesses. In January 2008 He even gave me a job description that says " I am sending you out by the power of My Spirit to Release those bound by Fear, to Proclaim Forgiveness, and to Show Love to ALL men". NOBODY can tell me that there is no God - NOBODY.
Your "hammer" is a man made concept. The real good news is that our destiny is assured. God Desires that ALL of His Spirit children will eventually return to Him. If this one thing you have no choice - but He will NEVER EVER force you to. There is no such thing as a devil or a hell - more of man's fantasies. To realize His Desire, God Created a Perfect System (God ONLY does Perfect) which has reincarnation and Free Will as major components. It all works together to get us to where God Desires us to be - returned to Himself. Most people have the wrong idea about God ( especially His "character). I totally blame ALL organized religions for the misconceptions. An experience of mine might make this clearer.
Years ago I came across some writing that said " Only God judges me". I was immediately and strongly urged by the Holy Spirit to Respond to this and so we wrote " Wrong. God does not judge, nor condemn, nor punish. God ONLY LOVES UNCONDITIONALLY. It is man who judges, and condemns, and punishes. God is not cruel. It is man who is cruel".
You see, what man calls sin God calls mistakes and mistakes are not dealt with through punishment but are rather offered the opportunity (as many as is needed) for correction. This is a large part of what reincarnation is about. People have the wrong idea about God and His Perfect System. He is good and Loving. My personal proof is that despite being a human who makes his fair share of mistakes (sin?) Over the past 17 years - God has shown me NOTHING BUT Love and Humor. I am not going to apologize for trusting my personal experiences over others, especially those who have their own agendas and are pushing 2000 year old literature that has passed through countless human hands.
Take my word or not. I really don't care. This would not be the first time that people have ignored God's Messengers or Teachers. Bless you 🙏❤️
If Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil, how could they be expected to know it was wrong to disobey God?
Some people believe they made the right choice. Short YT video Adam & Eve by Rabbi Manis Friedman.
This was always the question that I asked my former pastor & I was told that I can’t ask that question 😂
Yes! Happened to me too. It was a different question, but I asked it really looking forward to understand God’s point of view, not mine. I was told that my question is interesting and needed to be studied more from a theological perspective, but never received an answer. Ah, but when I “sinned” the same person that never gave me an answer repented me and said many Bible verses to show me how wrong I was. 🙃
@@luisaalmontevega2016 mine just walked away after he said that. I would have respected him if he had just said "I honestly don't know", but because I challenged him, he caught a hissy fit instead. Jerk!
I was told I didn't have enough faith that if I believed better that I would have the answers I needed not the ones I wanted
Same here l feel like God has no problem with us asking why
that's what happens when you go to a church that has made an idol of the bible.
Growing up I was always taught that Samson was some sort of biblical hero. Then I happened to watch a Darkmatter2525 video telling the story showing Samson to be a jerk. I remember thinking no way, that can't be true. So I went to the source and sure enough Samson was a lying cheating murdering jackass. Not at all like he was portrayed in Sunday school.
Thank the nonexistent god for DM2525
Huh. I'd actually learned what he was like from Sunday school and was pretty surprised to learn he apparently was written as someone who'll be saved in the long run, considering he was, to quote my father, "a He-Man Womanizer" (not said as a compliment).
Non Stamp Collector. He has great cartoons
The account of Samson was about a judge who was meant to punish the Philistines for oppressing Israel. They bullied Israel. Samson trusted in his strength but every time that he established friendships with the Philistines , they betrayed him again and again. But every time that he got even with them , they devised plans to harm him. His eyes lusted after the ungodly woman Delilah. The moral of this account was that God used Sampson to punish the Philistines for oppressing Israel , but used the weakness of a woman to take away his strength. His eyes that caused him to sin were put out , but in the end he repented before bringing down more Philistines in his death than ever before.
Oh yes, when I saw that Samson cartoon in Darkmatter, my mind blew😅how shameful was believing this book stories! Just this Samson cartoon could be enough to wake up😂
Simple question, if Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil, how did God expect them to obey? How were they supposed to understand that eating the fruit was wrong?
you can teach a dog to obey, but a dog has no knowledge of good and evil. This knowledge is far beyond morality and is more like the ability to consciously create and destroy, like how humans made an atomic bomb. That's quite the godlike power, to make that bomb. Dogs cannot do that. But some dogs are super obedient simply because they love their owners.
@@theTavis01 So how did God train Adam & Eve to obey? Well, whatever he did, didn´t work! Isn´t He supposed to be all mighty?
@@JoaquimRaminhos "And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.'" Sounds pretty clear to me. Scientifically speaking, it was a psychedelic plant that humans ate. There's no turning back evolution to a time before humans wore clothes and made rituals from psychedelics. We are stuck with this whether you like it or not. What the Bible presents is a solution. Reject the Bible and you are rejecting the solution, but are still stuck with the problem.
Spot on once again. Your explanations are beautiful in their clarity, in depth examinations of the subject matter but simplistic in their delivery, so that all can understand your message. I consider you to be one of the best presenters on this platform.
I came to the realization that the whole story about Adam and Eve was just a way for the patriarchy to justify why they thought women are lesser, after I took women’s history It all just made sense to me. Thank you because you’ve put my thoughts into words.
I don't see how a man and a woman being setup justified the amount of suffering men go through in war etc. I think if you think men rule the world you are mistaken.
Yes. Cuz they always say eve eve, i was sadly one once too. But when i read it finally is when i learned. Adam butt was told first but he did it anyway. Then blamed eve n god gave her worst punishment. I learned bible is crap n the whole god n belief
Word
@@mountblanc39 okay? And I wouldn’t know that there’s no me. So why should I care?
@@Faeriecorener sorry madame i put my comment in wrong place 😂
Amen!! Such a refreshing look at the story we believed so blindly.. it’s frustrating that I even believed and never reasoned it out rationally for 15 years.. but glad we are seeing the trickery now. That’s true freedom! Thank you again!
The sad part is most will remain in this bondage till they die.
I fyou live in time under the elements you are a slave, you cannot be free... fallacy of preconception
The ORIGINAL Garden of Eden story, Sumerian I believe, was quite insightful before Christian doctrine reshaped it.
(Not coincidentally, and in a remarkable parallel, so were the Virtues from Classical philosophy, which were ORIGINALLY put forward as a methodology for living happily and well. Aquinas got hold of them and turned them into a guilt trip.)
So the original Garden story is a reasonably credible treatment of what it means to become conscious. For people who had no concept of evolution by natural selection, this is impressive. They still managed to put together a coherent story that strikes to the heart of the human condition.
If we're going along in life unconsciously, like other animals, we simply act out of instinct and other unconscious drives. There are desires and aversions, but nobody observing the action and thinking "Well, choice X would feel immediately better than Y, but maybe wouldn't be so good in the longer term. I should probably think about this some more."
Ancient peoples might have called that sort of abstract thinking a "knowledge of good and evil," but that's a clumsy analysis which misses the point. The point is that as long as we're embedded in the unconscious flow of inner experience and instinctive reaction, we can't separate ourselves from the experience in order to think about it dispassionately, in the abstract, as ideas to be weighed against each other.
But the price we pay for this ability to step outside the moment of experience is that we can end up feeling disconnected from the very thing that gives reality its richness. And THIS was the message of the original story, I think. This was the Fall, the loss of innocence, the feeling of separation.
It takes extraordinary effort now for humans to live "in the moment." It's why people pursue extremely sports, mindfulness practice, recreational drugs, ecstatic sex. OF COURSE we want to be fully present in the moment! But we also need to discipline our lives so that we're not living entirely in the moment but also thinking ahead, outside of the moment, about the possible consequences of our actions.
There's no easy answer here. But I think it's fascinating that the ancient Sumerians, or whoever they were, somehow got a handle on this pivotal place in the development of the human condition, and devised a story to illustrate it. It's so pivotal!
It drives that Zen koan asking about whether a dog has Buddha nature, in other words whether enlightenment is really another word for innocence. (The answer, as you may already know, is the Japanese word "mu" roughly translated as "nothing" or "unask the question" or "emptiness.")
At any rate, the Christian rewrite of this fundamental treatment of human awakening seems deeply disappointing in comparison. It's just another guilt trip about how disobedient humans are tainted with naughtyness, and how it's our own fault that we were kicked out of paradise. But someone paid off our debt, so now we're in debt to him instead, and we'd better be thankful, otherwise infinite torture awaits. But don't forget to feel shame either way.
I am very puzzled that Christianity has such a grip on people. The more I learn about it, the more messed up it seems.
Christianity only works because people are scared they could be wrong and spend eternity somewhere bad. It's coercion
Glad I found u Kristi, just subscribed. U make allot of sense like me. People might think I worry everything is conspiracy. But I question everything. When things don't add up makes me doubt everything I was told.
Blind and obedient is the main takeaway from the Adam and Eve story. I'm glad you created a TH-cam channel with longer content
Yeah, JT - for a conservative Christian fundamentalist / evangelical, the main thing was that Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and that was the core or essence of their sin. But conservatives in general are really into the whole obedience thing, and look to external authority figures or institutions, like the church, to structure their lives and tell them what they can and can't do. Those of a more liberal persuasion are more open minded, and more inclined to follow their own inner principles and convictions.
@@naiman4535 so you’re answer to that is “do as thou wilt”? Perhaps u could be more ignorant, but I doubt it.
AWF, you have just shown me through your written reply that you could not be more ignorant, even of the basics or fundamentals of English spelling and grammar. it's YOUR answer - your is the possessive pronoun, with you're being a contraction of you are! I'm sick and tired of people who are only semiliterate, and who really need to go back to school to learn their abcs trying to write a coherent, legible response to anything. Looking at your reply again, it fails to make any logical sense either, as I do not see exactly what you are accusing me of being ignorant of - you fail to adequately communicate that in your reply. All I can figure out is that you see yourself as a woman freed, and that you have somehow - I can't understand exactly how - demonized me as the patriarchal enemy, which I am not. I accept that the Adam and Eve story can be viewed and interpreted from a feminist perspective, and that is valid as far as it goes, but that there is a deeper significance to why it was a woman who got the karmic ball rolling. Interestingly enough, it was also a woman in the myth of Pandora's Box, which is the classical Greek myth about how sin and evil came into the world - and there is a case to be made that the classical Greek culture was much less patriarchal, and more gender balanced, than the Judaic. I'm afraid that it is you, AWF, who is the ignorant one, who has failed to grasp the finer subtleties inherent in my original comment. You remain stuck in the dualism of good versus evil, us versus them, matriarchy versus patriarchy, and are blind to anything that transcends it. And by the way, I think that there is a widespread misunderstanding of exactly what karma is, that it is the Hindu equivalent of sin or evil,, which it is not. There can be good karma as well as bad karma. Karma is related to the English word, "create" - in other words, that your actions and choices are creating inevitable effects or consequences - it's the basis for all notions of personal responsibility in life. It fell upon Adam and Eve, as the first humans, to get the whole cause and effect sequence of events in human life and history rolling. This ain't god or bad - it just is what it is.
@@naiman4535I would argue that a knowledge of good and evil isn't what saves us from mortality but Gods' union with us through spirit. There is nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge of good and evil, other than to eat from it thinking that it is a ticket out of mortality is delusional, a guarantee of death (the consequence of being mortal). Our hope of transcending mortality has to lie in God Himself, the tree of life. That God Himself will finish His creation. The lie the serpent told was, "you won't die", i.e., you are not really mortal, you already have life inherent in you. God is one, and we either trust our part in that oneness or we don't. It is God's union with us that makes us like God, not our knowledge of good and evil. Our knowledge of good and evil comes through, God in us, our hope of glory, not the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Me and the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is a road to nowhere.
@@wilfredmancy Why do you believe that crap?
I'm 100% serious when I say I had the same idea! A caring parent won't put a knife in the playpen of toys and say choose wisely or surely die. It's so bizarre. It's so interesting to hear you speak because i totally understand! What's your tiktok?
Calvinism was the last place I left when I left Christianity. Totally understand you!
Yes n christian would bash the parents too. Like when leave a gun unlocked n not on safety. They call out the parent for being un responsible and for even having something dangerous there. Like gear your self case closed
i once left a box of doughnuts on a table in a room with young children,i told the kids" now dont eat those doughnuts!" later the babysitter arrived and told the kids "sure you can have a doughnut!"its easy to guess what happened to that box of doughnuts....
When you realised that Eve wasn't completely at fault Adam was too he could have refused it if he really didn't want to 😑
It's even worse, if you account for the story of Lilith, Adam's first wife. He didn't want her because Lilith didn't want to lie beneath him, so the biblical god created Eve from Adam's rib, as a part from him, a "help meet", and thus, inferior to him. He created her to be weaker and more susceptible to the snake than Adam, he set her up to fail, the supposedly "stronger" Adam still fell for her persuasion, and then, he still punished Eve worse for it. The whole story doesn't make sense, especially because the biblical god is supposed to be omniscient.
it was all god fault neither adam or eves
Yes! Years ago I used to ask why our “loving God” set us up for failure and punished ALL of mankind for Adam and Eve’s sins!
Looking back, now I understand that was the beginning of my deconstruction of Christianity!
…that’s not a loving god, btw! That’s a psycho mean and deceiving god. Use your brain!
I'm glad that you dropped religion. Spirituality is the way to have a relationship with God. God punished nobody. He knew what was going to happen in the Gardin. It was like the key that started the engine of God's Perfect System. What has been labeled " Original Sin" was actually First Blessing. Without Adam and Eve doing what they did THEN we wouldn't have Free Will NOW 🙏❤️
@@itsMe..GaryLee You have it all wrong. If you wish for the Truth, stop accepting whatever the lying middlemen (church leaders) tell you and develop a personal relationship with God for YOURSELF. If you do, then YOU can get the Truth straight from the horse's mouth. Trust me. God is nothing like popular opinion.
I am a human who makes his fair share of mistakes (sins?) and yet in the 17 years now that I have worked for God, He has shown me NOTHING BUT Love and Humor.
Something I have been thinking a lot about lately that Kristi mentioned briefly is that God supposedly knows everything, including what's going to happen in the future. Which means he knew before he even created Adam and Eve, that they were going to sin, and he was going to punish them. Which means it was his plan from the beginning. So why would they be punished for carrying out his plan? If he wanted things to turn out differently he could've designed the system differently. He knew how it would play out, and that makes it his responsibility. He also supposedly knew that he would send Jesus someday, so why didn't he sent him right away? Why did he first wait until Noah build the ark and everyone in the world was killed, including children and babies and grandmothers? God knows the future so he knew that Flood wouldn't work and that eventually he would send Jesus to save people from their sins. Then why did he wait thousands of years to do that? I think people see questions like this as attacking God which is a big no-no because he is supposedly perfect. The questions are about the validity of the stories. And pointing out the ways that they don't make sense. True believers are not allowed to question. But if you sit back and think about the stories, you start to see no they don't make literal sense, but they are set up to control the masses and gather followers who will obey blindly.
Another question I often ask these religious nut jobs is, if God is going to send back Jesus to fix everything, Why didn't he do it in 1985 or 1945 or 1543 or 1288 or 1097?...
Does he enjoy watching people suffer?
God is out of control!
That god is a fraud 🤥
No matter when Jesus was send it applied to all people who loved God by their obidinece in every era. Those are the dead who got ressurected immadietly after Jesus. As for other questions I will respond later
I remember as a child....reading educational books and watching videos that are also educational was considered "satanism" I immediately took the Holey Trypophiliac book and sent it straight to the garbage can. *THAT'S SATANISM*
There was one time before that I was in bible study and I mentioned Charles Darwin...the whole church went silent. True story
I agree. This is brilliant. I hope this beautiful young lady is a teacher and an advocate for freedom from tyranny and suppression. The skill to communicate so efficiently may save our United States from the downward spiral toward a fascist society. I love people like this who use their beautiful mind to view the world with clarity and coherence.
Its written in John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son”. God wants to save you not condemn you but are u willingly to accept that.
@@trooperslayer5910 “it is written…”
Thank you for your lovely comment. I agree with every word.
Thank you for your lovely comment. I agree with every word.
If Adam and Eve had not yet eaten from the tree of knowledge, they would have not known the difference between right and wrong. If they couldn't differentiate between the two, then they couldn't know that eating the fruit was wrong.
That's the thing, before the fruit, there was no morality, its not about it being wrong or right to eat the fruit, its about, will you follow the rules or not.
I could invite you into my house and say, do not sit on the 2nd chair of the table, this choice has no moral value, but will you follow the instructions or not? Maybe if you do, I'll never invite you over ever again because that special chair has sentimental value, but it wasn't a crime.
good and evil is not always the same thing as right and wrong. The original Hebrew words mean something more like the power of creation and destruction. Along with that power comes a moral responsibility, but the morals are secondary. There are times when it is right to be "evil" (for example, cutting off someone's arm is evil in the sense of being destructive, but sometimes a doctor might do this for the good of the patient). Animals do not have the knowledge of good and evil. A dog will never invent a nuclear bomb. But a dog can be trained to obey. Therefor, the knowledge of good and evil is not necessary for obedience, and actually often gets in the way of obedience.
@@J040PL7 More apologetic excuses as usual.
@@J040PL7 Also the comparison you made is disingenous because it is not at all comparable to damning all of humanity from the onset for disobedience to someone who set them up for failure to begin with.
@@theTavis01 That wasn't a good analogy by any means.
I could listen to you do a breakdown on each story in the Bible! This is brilliant!!
Actually it's sad. She has no understanding whatsoever
Congratulations! You had to come a long way. And consider this: there is an older story about the Garden. In Sumeria, the Goddess reigned, Queen of Heaven, Mother of All. There is a depiction of her sitting by the Tree of Life, with her sacred companion the snake, symbol of renewal because it shed its skin, and possessor of ancient wisdom and secrets because it could hear with no ears and smell with no nose. (The much smaller figure of the man is tending the garden.) The Canaanites still believed in her, many of the Israelites had joined in, so the author of the story of Adam and Eve (whose name in Hebrew, I’m told, means Mother of All, how about that) was intent on stamping out this worship and all it implied, so in his story trees are forbidden, snakes are flattened, and women are subjugated. End of story.
😂😂😂😂😂
If I remember correctly, there is actually this other tree, the tree of life ALSO in the garden and also forbidden. (Edit: not forbidden, but god throws them out before they could eat from it and live eternally - so on top, Adam and Eve were never immortal after all if I read this correctly, because they did not eat from the tree of life.)
This sumerian version is way batter than the one from the buy-bull(shit).
The bible says that eve was called eve because "she was the mother of all living". Her name "chavva" is similar to "chaya", meaning "living". So, it is "living", not "mother", that her name is supposedly related to.
Wow, Sumerian mythology is nice. I like that thing with the snake.
One thing that always amazes me is that nothing happened when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. I honestly think that the story of that situation when he ate the fruit and both realized that they were naked is a metaphor of Adam feeling ashamed for knowing the truth and not liking his human nature and instinct. Pretty much how religious people are. And what’s funny is that most of them, one way or another, commit the most sins. I witnessed that in my church. Adultery was the most I saw.
You never have to take accountability for anything if you can just repent later
Is it not obvious that most Christians aren’t true Christians? This is the epitome of modern ignorance in terms of people who don’t dare to learn past basic ideas, principles and religious fundamentals.
Being Christian does nothing for you if you don’t actually care and change your life. Most Christians will claim their Christian due to their family claiming Christian lol. Being Christian means you (singular) have a personal relationship with God, your family being Christian does not save you. Being an actual Christian does but you won’t see many actual Christians in the modern would full of sin and instant gratification at your finger tips.
And on average Christians are very ignorant in terms of what they believe. Because most don’t study nor understand theology, Psychology and how to interpret or read the Bible correctly nor do they understand the complete history and timeline of the beginning of the Bible to the end.
So yay does it not make sense that most Christians aren’t actually Christian? Because if you write down what a Christian actually looks like It’s extremely hard to be a true Christian, Jesus was the only human to ever be a true Christian. But that isn’t an excuse to not fight against sin daily and to not fight against evil. It’s that intrinsic battle and trusting God that is honorable.
Those who do wrong and repent over and over will not be saved. They are just so ignorant they don’t understand that concept.
Those who are truly saved and actually understand their religion will sacrifice and fight against sin their whole life’s. Because they actually are serious about the claim of being Christian. That’s the difference on average most Christians are not serious just like every other religion. It’s due to human nature we are very objective based and tend to only care about the now. And how do you expect a kid to have any clue about what they actually believe? In order to figure out if you actually believe in Christianity or not just comes down to how much you have actually studied and learned, which means you’ll need to study bias and non bias people and books. Otherwise you don’t understand it enough to make such a big decision. For those who are capable it’s our duty to come to a conclusion about what we believe religiously which means you listen to debates and you read the texts and Books etc
What I find funny is that on average the majority of people who are dying and or sick seek God during those Tims. Yet They don’t seek God fully when they are living the life they want. And that’s the majority of human beings that do that. But you’ll find through hardship you grow closest to God and there’s a reason for that but it would be to long to explain it here.
@@undrwatropium3724That’s not how Christianity works it’s very clear on that. But modern people like to think they can Repent and be forgiven over and over and that’s due to false modern teachings. Most people don’t actually read or study the Bible, if they did they would understand it doesn’t work like that.
How many people do you think actually actively fight against their sins and truly try daily to not sin? The right answer is Very little actually try mostly because it’s extremely hard but also because most modern people on average don’t care enough. We live in a world of instant gratification and a time where misinformation is the majority of information people hear. To know truth you must understand the prerequisite for truth itself which is as far as we know the Bible. It’s is the original author of moral morality making God the true moral authority, so without that we wouldn’t understand morality anyway lol and psychology and theology completely agree on that.
But simply put If your heart is of pure intentions and you are trying not to sin yet you still fall short and sin well God is the most gracious and God knows what is truly in your heart so you can be forgiven.
But if your a false Christian and you actively seek out sin and don’t fight against it. well I’d say good luck trying to be forgiven for living a life of sin while being actively aware of your sins. It’s hypocrisy especially if you go around claiming your Christian all day that’s a sin that is going to be very hard to gain forgiveness for that’s very clear.
To sum it up Claiming your Christian is nothing special
Being Christian is something else.
And you can objectively see the difference pretty clearly in those who are truly Christian and those who only claim the title of Christian.
Adultery is what Eve did...why do you think it says "their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked"? And then her punishment is "pains in childbearing"? She's pregnant with Cain......
Kristi, your doing a great job with this channel. You’ll be in the hundred thousand subscribers in no time!❤
Adam was standing there SILENTLY thinking of himself "let her eat from that tree, if she dies, then I'll not eat. If she doesn't die, then I'll eat too".
He wanted to test that tree on the expense of Eve.
Then when he screwed up he threw Eve under the bus blaming her and God for his mistake.
If there was any evil in that story it was Adam.
What I can say is that after 54 years of being manipulated and lied to by establishment religious institutions, I can really appreciate it when people are able to clearly articulate the erhical and logical problems with the Bible. Thank you Kristi, for your courage and intellect in making these vedios. Whoever God is, if He exist, the Bible is absolutely not His infallibil word.
Well the very first passage in genesis says that God created the heavens and the earth ?
@@noneofyourbusinessna740 And? We have many creation myths.
@@robby7499 well one of them is fact not a myth?
I think you're taking it all way too seriously.....people just go to church for the community.
Youre just latching on to the few nut jobs on the other end of your spectrum. IMO you all are as crazy as a bunch of Baptists.
@@noneofyourbusinessna740Why don't you demonstrate that then, instead of just asserting it?
"The weapon in the play-pin" is brilliant metaphor. A+
Yep, pretty much.
This god is supposed to be all-knowing, all-powerful, which means the entire story of the Garden was a setup from the start. God knew they'd act the way they eventually and inevitably acted.
Adam and Eve, if they wanted to not be cursed, would have to thwart the will of God.
@19:40 🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯BE BLIND AND OBEDIENT!
The same people that tell me that women are gullible are also the ones that tell me that women are deceitful. Such a contradiction!
And they are also the ones who blame women for "tempting" them. Projection, projection, projection. From weak little men who don't want to learn any responsibility or self-control.
I think one of the best books I ever read was "The Diaries of Adam and Eve" by Mark Twain. It is funny, insightful, and sad all at the same time. The ending brought me to tears. It's only around 40 pages, and well worth the read.
ooh, not heard of this book before, i love Mark Twain.
@@bonnie43uk The copy that I have, is part of a compilation titled "Letters from the Earth". I'm not sure if the diaries are available separately. Twain himself never published any of that book, as it would likely have landed him in legal hot water, at the time. It's a great book, that I highly recommend.
@@darylp8564 I'm listening to the audiobook on TH-cam atm, very good, thanks 🙂
Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain?
@@joshuaokoro-sokoh2993 Yes...the same one. He wrote quite a bit of what could only have been very controversial pieces, at that period in time.
They will tell you that you're wrong for interpreting the bible in this way, but like, if they're allowed to interpret it how they want, why can't we?
"You're twisting the word to sound bad" we don't have to make it sound bad, it does that itself pretty well. It's often the apologists and other religious believers that twist it to sound good.
Blind and obeying is the perfect way of saying it. I believe that all generations that are born with the church in their lives follow blindly. Even all the religious leaders today in churches, mosques, and all sorts of religious temples. They just grew up with all of it and obeyed what they have learned from parents and the church. When I was 8y old, I looked in my moms eyes and told her that what the church tells us is so wrong. Nothing added up. The stories made no sense. This God sounded so evil to me that he could never ever have something to do with all the good things that were talked about. I watched a few of your videos now, and I just love how you explain yourself and word everything with .. well ... with an angels tongue - I believe those that read the Bible actually heard you explain what they read and may understand what they read and understand how much manipulated they were by the book and the books promoters. 😅
I was having Bible study with this older woman and we were talking about this story because I was like “how is Jehovah walking through the garden?” She said it was figuratively. 😐
God can walk through a garden if He wants... What's the problem?
@@danielvargas9100If he is everywhere at the same time, and observes everything we do....why would He need to go anywhere...and call out, asking where they were?
@@darylp8564 Because God speaks to us on our level. For example, he asked Cain in Genesis 4:9 "Where is your brother Abel??" God knew exactly where Abel was, but He asked Cain regardless because that's how he makes sense of things to us... Cain talked to God right back after that question. Cain didn't say, "You're God you should know that already, lol. Come on, use a little logic.
@@danielvargas9100 Logic applied to biblical subjects, is like Kryptonite to Superman. Lol that one. You didn't answer my question, as to why a being who is everywhere has a need to travel. I'm expecting an apologist answer, if I get one at all.
@@darylp8564 You are on a youtube channel that is talking about biblical topics. What else would you expect me to do? Not use logic? Anyways, here's how it works. And remember, this is GOD we are speaking of. It's GOD....... Ok. In Genesis (in the beginning), God the Father is on His throne, while SIMULTANEOUSLY on earth as a Spirit, hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2). So, it's not like he got off the throne to travel to earth. He is on the throne while SIMULTANEOUSLY on earth as a Spirit. It's tripped out, but its GOD remember? Another example. When Jesus (His Son) was on earth while getting baptized in water, his Father from the heavenly throne said "This is my Son who I am well pleased," and at that moment, the Holy Spirit came onto Him like a dove. ALL GOD. The Father NEVER left his throne, while His Son was on earth, while the Spirit descended into Jesus. This is complex. This is GOD. Trying to understand how GOD can morph, put on skin, be in the form of a burning bush, dwell in a temple, ALL WHILE NEVER LEAVING THE THRONE is BEYOND ME. But it makes sense because ITS GODDDDDDDDDDD. GOD can do whatever the flip He wants, and however He wants. The laws of physics CANNOT STOP HIM. So, if its too far fetched for you, that's normal. We are worms compared to GOD. Intellects on earth are dumbasses compared to him. Lastly, this is the same GOD that made your soul easily. He made the dirt you live on, and it was easy for Him. He set up the sexual system for humans so that you can exist. That's GOD.
I find it so hard to understand how god gave ‘a free choice’ if they couldn’t know any morals or know literally anything about life. It simply does not add up on how that’s fair! How could they know they were making a mistake if god never taught them mistakes or that mistakes are bad?
God gave them free will but he also gave instructions to follow. They’re not robots because they have free will but they’re supposed to follow instructions. It’s just like at your job. You don’t talk to the owner when given instructions, you talk to your manager, supervisor, or trainer. The whole point is just because you didn’t receive the message the way you want doesn’t matter. What does matter is did you receive the message? If you listen you keep your job but if you do what YOU want to do then you’re fired and unemployed again.
@@kushhazard3109 If I am an infant a few months on this earth and my parent doesn't want me to have something, they don't plop it in front of me then punish me for grasping it. You especially don't plop it in front of me and then hire a babysitter to be alone in the room with me, literally present the forbidden thing to me, then curse and punish me. It is literally a parent's job to train and nurture and the entire reason is for the health, growth, safety and well being of the child, to get them safely to adulthood and able to stand on their own and be competent adults; not to satisfy the purely dictatorial impulses of a parent and remain forever subservient to parental instruction. If you don't know right from wrong, you also can't know that failing to follow a particular instruction is wrong. Especially when two adults are telling you very different things.
@@kushhazard3109 Yawn, whatever. If they don't see a good or bad side to it, objectively, or FEAR death particularly, yet, then how do you know what they'll choose, and how they'll weigh it up?
Also, it's got NOTHING to do with 99.9999999999 percent of humanity, either way, who were not yet BORN and had NO say in any of it.
Whilst I also bet, even 1/3 and probably, 3/3 of angels, DID know good from bad, and wider stakes - and had even less likely reason to 'rebel' in a 'perfect realm' etc.
Seems unlikely, taken that way? The whole civil war, thing?
@@kushhazard3109 Why is following instructions "good" why is not following them "evil"? How were they to know? The whole point of the tree was it taught them the difference.
@@kushhazard3109If your God is Omnipresent and real we have no free will. But he decides that's the way he wants the dice to roll. Let me ask you this. Does God have free will? Could he choose not to create at all?
When we try to understand the mind of God and the plan of God for mankind, it always leads to confusion, anger and apart from Him. I would not try to analyze the Scriptures to "prove" that Christianity is fake.
Than you shall surely know Him because you have chosen very wisely
Very enlightening. Thank you, Ms. Kristi.
I’ve been triggered by scripture (and the reading of) for many years. You are helping me be able to hear all of those words again, but with a healed ❤️. Best perspective change if my lifetime!! Thank you so very much for that!! 🥰🥰🥰
🥰 so happy my videos can reach you. Thanks for your support!
You will never understand the Genesis story of Adam and Eve without Divine guidance, which I've been given. (I'm the prophesied return of the biblical prophet Elijah.) For example, "the tree of knowledge of good and evil" - the tree of knowledge of Go(o)d and (d)evil - does not supply knowledge at all. For, when you believe that GOD (good) has competition, when you believe that there is a power other than GOD, its because you have LOST all knowledge! The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the tree of IRRATIONAL knowledge: IGNORANCE. We all partook of this irrational idea, which is why we are experiencng this world of LIMITATION. But the "GOOD NEWS" is that this is only temporary, and "GOD our Savior...will have all men (and women) to be saved and come unto knowledge of the truth." (1Timothy 2:3-4) Yes, when GOD says "good news," GOD means GOOD NEWS! All mysteries have been revealed. Click and ye shall find.
Love that I randomly found this channel after I started doing my unpacking, literally last night I was writing and this is the exact thing I was saying, that he is the the first tempter, he put the tree there and made it tempting, he made it appealing to us and allowed this to take place, he allowed the serpent to talk to eve, he allowed them to eat the fruit and then comes out guns blazing throwing curses at the creation that he loves so much. We never introduced sin into the world, he’s the creator of everything, including sin, satan wasn’t the first sinner, it had to exist for him to do it, but somehow they’ve manage to twist this blame game and take the blame from the one who made everything the way it is. It’s not a gift if you’re the one who gave me the problem
That's not "love"... that's abuse..
Original sin stands out as the number one thing that drove me away from the faith. I got so tired of going to church every week and saying creeds in unison about how terrible I was, along with all other humans, and we deserved punishment, and we can’t trust our own wants and decisions (which is literal gaslighting btw). It was offensive to my sensibilities and how I wanted to see the best I could in myself and everyone else, not their broken sin nature. How toxic shame inducing!
Also, we’re broken sin people, and we’re like god, but god is perfect?? Does not make sense.
I have learned and grown so much from your channel. Thank you for putting all of this out there, and you were also simply adorable.❤
Also was the serpent satan? If so why was he in the garden of Eden? Could animals talk before the fall? If Adam and Eve were in the presence of god why weren’t they worshipping him (just like how Satan didn’t even though he was in the presence of god also). And why did god have to find them when they were hiding? I thought you can’t hide from god
It's nothing more than a very flawed book, why, man wrote it, not some god.
The serpent was Satan in disguise. It would have been after he was thrown out of heaven. He couldn't destroy God so the next best thing was to hurt people because people are made in God's image and he hates God. Knowing that people are in God's image, the devil deceived Eve by saying she would be like God if she ate from the one place they were told not to. The thing is, they were already like God, and God wanted to give them a choice to listen and they didn't. Eve knew they were told not to and even brought that fact up, but let herself be deceived anyway. The devil also lied to her and said eating it would not really kill her----so she did. Then she told Adam who also knew better and then God came along knowing where they were, knowing they were hiding because they did what they did and didn't want to be punished. He was testing them knowing how they'd react. They were supposed to listen but they didn't. Eve blamed the devil. Adam blamed Eve. Nobody took responsibility. They thought they could hide from God but of course you can't. After they were punished, God gave them animal skins for clothing. The innocent death of an animal, the animal skins, represented Jesus's future sacrifice for mankind for their sins. Animals were unfairly punished alongside humanity. They didn't deserve it. Jesus didn't either. Fortunately, the Bible does say animals do benefit from humanity's redemption and are also waiting for things to be made right by Christ again. That's an aside though. Back to your question. They were cast out at some point. Remember how I said the devil said they wouldn't die? The sad thing is he lied. They died spiritually that day and much later on, a physical death too. As far as animals talking, they cannot. In Numbers 22, when the evil man is driving his female donkey through the field and vineyard, an angel of death appears down the path that the man cannot see. However, the donkey can see it naturally and avoids it, seeing danger. The man doesn't understand and beats the donkey savagely. God speaks through the donkey regarding this savage abuse and the donkey is unaware. I imagine the man himself is terrified by his response but I can't be sure. Right after this his eyes are opened and he can see what the donkey could all along. Keep in mind the angel of death was probably scary to look at. So, no, I don't think animals could ever talk, but that chapter in Numbers does reveal they can see angels whenever they are present (dunno how often that is but I don't think we are meant to be nervous/uncomfortable about it).
As a quick note, keep in mind the angels now in heaven are the elect. Like Satan those left have some will of their own, but angels are not saved because they are much higher than us and more intelligent than us.
God was walking and couldn’t see them as this was the anthropomorphic J source Canaanite god - not the P source Babylonian god of Genesis 1 nor the omnipotent god that would develop in the Second Temple period. The snake was just a snake with the idea it was Satan not being introduced until around 90 CE in a line by John of Patmos in Revelation which is purely symbolic. There are instances of talking animals later in the Bible such as the story of Balaam’s donkey.
Also a talking Donkey (Balaam in Numbers), talking eagle in Revelation (warning of the wrath of God) and a talking lion that spoke to David. Seems animals talked on a regular basis back then
Yahwe was slacking off. He couldn't keep his automatons in check 😅😅
Best beakdown of Adam and Eve Ive ever heard! Especially the part about God walking around like in a horror movie😮
She clearly doesn't understand the bible. Remember Jesus was communing daily with them and they were also afraid so Jesus use this way to relate to them
This is the worst breakdown. It shows she literally has no idea what actually happened only three chapters into the Bible. If someone gets a book wrong before chapter four…you should not trust them as a reference.
God sounds like a perv. Just creating people to watch them in the nude doing whatever. And when they dress up, he gets mad and kicks them out. Sleezy. ;-)
@@warrior-xd2xn how
@@TallGlass-fh8qf how
That is such an interesting perspective and I absolutely love how you tore apart one of the fundamentals of the book because that is very interesting that we look at it from more perspectives than our childlike Wonder because we're very much molded when we were raised in a church environment
Which fundamental was that ?
You're right about the story. Like Jesus it's an enigma. On one side it introduces the concept of original sin, but at the same time it introduces the idea of being like God. If fundamentalists wanted people to really understand it, they would have to teach in it's context. In the ancient middle east the serpent always represented wisdom. This is why Jesus later says "Be ye wise as serpents, harmless as doves." Also the Lord put the snake in the garden for a good reason. He returns like a scientist to check on his experiment. In this age I look at it like the beginning of A.I. Mankind created computers, then developed problems so the computers could learn how to solve them.
Just 'found' your channel - I usually run like hell from anything that even hints about the hateful, abusive childhood I endured in a Fundie church. THIS - this is the outlook I needed in my teens. (a long, long time ago). Thank you! I made a frenzied dive for the 'subscribe' button.
@@riverdalehigh8r5tl love the name Jezebel!! It's awesome.
The tree was like leaving a loaded weapon on a coffee table and telling your five year old kids not to touch it.
like kevlar, a fence might have been a though, but no, not god.
Till your old enough to use it.
@@gardener3017 "beguiled" in the Hebrew & Greek isn't talking about apples. The serpent beguiled Eve/ KJV Bible
@@gardener3017 I totally respect your beliefs & opinions. I'm here to tell you that Almighty God & His Word/Bible(if properly translated, 100 English language Bibles)are Reality.
@@lionheartmerrill1069 "I'm here to tell you that Almighty God & His Word/Bible are Reality." OK, that's your opinion.
I was always told Adam and Eve were the first humans but when I asked about why they had belly buttons my question was met with silence 🤐
And you know they have belly buttons...how?
often depicted as such@@vadouis-rt3of
I'm 13 now, I grew up strictly catholic, I hated it. I'm 2 years into deconstruction and you have helped me understand so much more about the church, I love your channel
look up Genesis 28 about the stone of Jacob. then look up Gen 49.10. then look at the coronation chair of King Charles and you will see that same stone under the chair. then look up the heraldry signs of the 13 tribes and you will see Charles is from Judah house of David. so the most wicked people rule the world
Look at darkmater 2525
Kristi has decided that God's test of Adam and Eve was God's fault because he knew in advance that they would both eat of the forbidden fruit. God created Adam and Eve in his own image , then placed them in a garden. They had a sinless nature , but Adam chose to sin against the commandment to not eat the forbidden fruit. They were both sinless but had to resist sin to keep what they had , and come into maturity and holiness. Once their eyes were opened , they were once again offered to choose between good and evil and life or death. The perils of life served to remind them that not ever knowing anything but the good was God's first choice for them..
@@brianjones2384 he set to naked idiots up to fail and has punished mankind for 6k years now! who needs love like that?
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 God is not willing that any should perish but that all would come to repentance. Jesus was the second Adam who came from heaven. He lived a sinless life and shed his blood on the cross to pay for our sins in full and redeem us from eternal torment and offer is eternal life.
Glad to have found your channel... I'm approximately 5 years into my deconstruction... Your efforts are helpful and much appreciated
A very distinct memory i have is being like 12 years old and curled in the fetal position after having to be picked up from school because my period cramps were SO BAD and all my grandmother could say to console me was "isnt it just awful that eve ate that apple and cause this to happen"
the effects of believing that god personally cursed me because of my sex at birth and i was condemned to suffer every month really fucked up my psyche 😬
Oh yes 👍👍👍👍 that part 💯
I love the horror movie comparison. It does have that feel! And the writing is even more ridiculous and filled with holes than even the worst 80s low budget slasher film. Imagine setting up that the killer is literally omniscient and omnipotent - he can see you every second and there's no escaping him - but then in the second act you have him stumbling around the forest impotently yelling "Hey, hey guys! Where'd you go?"
And also add in the slow stalky reverberating footsteps with the suspenseful horror music.... *clunk clunk*👣👣
My favorite thing I heard growing up in church was “if any one of us were in the garden we would have given into temptation of eating the fruit”. Suggesting that it doesn’t matter and it was inevitable. But why in the first place? Why? *sigh*
No, unfortunately it wasn’t inevitable. God didn’t plan for Sin he wanted only love and light for his world and children.
@holotrout then Jesus's sacrifice could not have been planned since before the world began.
God either wasn't all knowing or he *was* willing that some should perish and therefore a liar.
@@holotrout It was planned and we know that from one simple quality of god's capabilities as a being: he has knowledge of the future. Whether he's omniscient or just maximally-knowing, he has knowledge of the future, God gives visions of the future to people all the time in the Bible, so he KNEW that Adam and Eve were going to eat from his very pretty, very obviously not hard to get to tree.
@@NoahofWill you know more than God?
@@holotrout Do you believe that your god is omniscient?
Your deconstruction is fascinating! You raise these issues as you actually go through the process resulting in a disarming and refreshing frankness - this is a precious thing, don't lose it.
She hates to think. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block If creation had to be done supernaturally the bible doesn't, and never could, describe it. When you look at the historicity of the bible you find it grew out of the polytheism that preceded it. That polytheism presumably is posited as the source of your universe.
@@paulreader1777 "If creation had to be done supernaturally" Meaning you're not convinced, meaning you're stuck, meaning you can't even follow science, so you put in a blah blah hoping that will make you look smart.
@@2fast2block On the contrary I am an evolutionary biologist with a minor in biophysics but I accept that neither the origin of life or the origin of the universe has been adequately explained. Positing a god of the gaps is as good an explanation as any other for now. I am merely pointing out that creation, as described in the Hebrew/Christian bible, has its origins in polytheism and is not a good explanation.
@@paulreader1777 stop it, the gap is between your ears. You REFUSE to follow science no matter how much you want to pretend you don't.
Exactly,If adam and eve didnt know whats good and whats EVIL,how could they know that eating this fruit was EVIL?
Even if god told this to adam he still wouldnt know that its a mistake because he dosent know the difrence between good and evil
Well said 👏 💯
Love ur videos! I agree the Adam and Eve story 23:32 is metaphorical. It is the Tree of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL not so much of just the Tree of KNOWLEDGE ALONE. ( I’m emphasizing, not trying to be rude). My problem is Cain and Abel married other women so Adam and Eve were not the First people. Apparently our genes say we descended from Africa so where is Eden?
Brilliant job. Perfect analysis. You don't need to be a scholar to see the stupidity of this shit story. It's ruined so many lives. It needs to end now..
You are so right, when you speak about the Church's expectations of us: blind obedience. And not only that, they use the blind obedience to oppress its members, and brain wash them into believing that they're happy in their ignorance. I was raisied in an Evangelical church, and at the age of 16-ish, I began to truly question this blind obedience requirement, and left the church. I was condemned for my questions, and judged sinful by my former fellow congregants. As a young mother, in my 20s, I briefly explored re-joining the "faith", and was again confronted, by my intuition (God-given, if you ask some of my former fellow congregants... but that's another exploration: if it is God-given, why is using my intuition a "sin"?), and abandoned the organized Evangelical "faith" once again. Now, I'm still exploring whether I believe in an Omnipotent Higher Being, but I have no doubt that the God of the Bible is neither All Knowing, nor is He All Compassionate. He is, in short, as you say... The Bad Guy.
While I do believe in gods and one that's above the rest; I don't worship them or do much in the way of anything because I believe they want humans to grow and develop on their own. I can imagine them having left in the past due to cults and simply left bits of information to help with our growth. Sadly, much of the knowledge of the symbolism and metaphors have been lost and distorted over time. So, I think the best thing humans can do in life is to improve themselves and help others improve as well.
I struggled with the bible being the inspired word of God as a teenager as it had so much in it that was bad. The Israelites committing genocide and enslaving people when they took over the promised land. God having to sacrifice his own son to save us? Why didn't he just forgive us and make everything right if he made the rules. I did always believe there was a higher being though. Just that the Bible was a poor man made attempt to describe him. However since I have been listening to Atheist v Apologist arguments and evolutionary theory I now don't believe even a God exists and that there is no supernatural realm. No fairies, no ghosts, no angels, no demons and no Gods. There is no higher power judging your thoughts and actions. There are just human societies whose opinions and values change over time. We can play a part in influencing these opinions and values for the better.
God gave Adam a sinless nature and commanded him not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam chose to sin and the knowledge of evil made life harder after choosing to sin. But Adam rejected Gods perfect plan , and suffered the consequences of sin. However , now that Adam has learned this lesson , he is now able to choose good over evil after his eyes have been opened and follow after God.
@@brianjones2384 Why do you think the Adam and Eve story is an account of a real life event? It is even less plausible than the Harry Potter story. You need to examine why you believe certain things to be true. In my case it was because I was taught things when I was a child by people I trusted. When I looked into where these ideas came from I discovered they were just stories that had been repeated for thousands of years. This doesn't make them true any more than the Father Christmas story is true.
@@davidstirk4732 God is an absolute being with all knowledge to make a universe with a world like ours with humans who could perceive reality unlike anything found in the animal kingdom. I believe that he created Adam and Eve in his image , and with a sinless nature to offer them the gift of eternal life freely. God commanded Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit. The freedom to eat from any tree in the garden except for one tree was to bring their sinless nature to full maturity towards holiness. Adam's disobedience to God's command and. warning violated God's covenant. God begins with the ideal and with both love and goodness as a faithful creator. However once Adam and Eve's eyes were opened they now realized that it was better to not know evil at all. However once they were removed from the garden , they could choose good from evil once again , and now wiser to not repeat the same mistakes.
What a woman! Brilliant and so insightful.
So true, but it would be better to throw the anger at the proper responsible party - man and his religious leaders.
@@garychartrand7378 that is true, but if it werent for man, there would be no God.
As a Catholic this story is what ultimately broke my faith in not just Catholicism but also Christianity as a whole because without a literal Fall I was unable to reconcile Original Sin with what we know of human evolution, I know the Catholic Church says you can accept evolution (and despite that my parish community was full of creationists for some reason) but they also say you must believe Adam and Eve were literal in some form because otherwise where did Original Sin come from and how did everyone get it? If that’s not real then what did Jesus die for? It all just fell apart for me and there’s other aspects you mentioned I didn’t take into account until now.
Nowadays I'm fascinated by the Gnostic reinterpretation of the event (the serpent was not just the hero but may have been Jesus according to some versions by them) and studying anthropology in college started my deconstruction in the first place, the most controversial idea I ever heard during those years was that agriculture was humanity's worst mistake and I can't help but wonder if most of Genesis is not just based on older myths but might also be a cultural memory of sorts of the transition to agriculture from a hunter gatherer lifestyle (I've heard the Cain and Abel being used as another example of this) so I also think that the authors probably intended the story to be a "just so" story. It was later guys like Paul who made it literal for their theology to work out (see Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Timothy 2 because to me these need Adam to be literal to make sense) and reading the Bible in its entirety has only solidified my lack of belief even though it didn't cause my deconversion directly. If this literalist interpretation was somehow true then to me Calvinism is the most consistent viewpoint among those fundamentalist groups since most of us are predestined to burn because of our "sin nature" anyways.
Thank you for this video and I really appreciate your content.
Keep these videos coming Kristi. There are so many of us with similar stories as yours and your voice gives us courage. Thank you for doing this.
I like the analogies of the toddler/parent relationship and showing compassion in a wrong choice…and the toddler with the knife for free will- brilliant
Well done, Kristi! A brilliant video! 👏
I found your explanation of the story of Adam and Eve to be very helpful in understanding it. One thing that I have always had a problem with is the fact that the God in the old testament seems entirely different from Jesus in the new testament. I was wondering if you also had a similar video pertaining to that topic.
The Adam and Eve story is like that parent left cocaine on the coffee table and society blames the toddler for ingesting it and dying
I think it's a story about slaves in a Babylonian garden. The rules for such slaves allowed them to eat from most trees, but the rare and particularly mature trees were off limits to slaves. Perhaps they were kids brought up in slavery from a very early age, forced to work nude and perhaps they didn't know better because it had always been that way. The Lord was the lord of the manor or garden. OT was written during the Babylonian Empire, and they were very famous for their gardens, which were also sort of zoos for exotic animals (think about Noah's Ark). Maybe it was a Blue Lagoon situation, and they realized they were naked when they had sexual awakening. There is a doublet of the creation story, and one states that the lord needed slaves to tend his garden, so he created them. When I look at the creation story through this lens, it starts to make a little sense.
There is this thing in psychology, it's the chick in the egg thing. Imagine a chick in an egg. That egg has been its entire universe for it's entire existence, but it is outgrowing the egg, and it is put in this situation where it must begin to destroy the very egg that has protected it. Once outside the egg, there is a lamenting for the way things were. Some psychologist say there is a penchant in us to blame ourselves for the destruction of the halcyon days of our youth. I heard this described to me about 30 years ago, but then read about it again around 2000 in a book titled "Bush on the couch" - where a psychologist attempts to examine George W. Bush. By the way, I saw an interview with Matt Damon and Robin Williams on the Charlie Rose show, where Damon, who wrote "Good Will Hunting" said, that the protagonist is confronting a similar situation - whether or not to grow beyond his tight little world with his friends in his neighborhood.
@@kaneinkansas yes. I think the ancient Hebrew religion struggled with the transition from hunter/gatherers into more permanent settlements. The story of Cain and Abel illustrates that they believed their god preferred the blood sacrifice of an animal to valuable grain and vegetable. I think the push to monotheism has to do with the difficulty of supporting so many animal sacrifices, particularly after Josiah’s reforms. It’s fun to plug the stories into the actual history and figure out the story that was meant to be told.
As an equal opportunity omnipotent flawless in perfection creator God. I'm sure there was a parallel biblical story that must have been an Adam & Steve story. Eating a rainbow hue apple 🍎 🌈
Because 'original sin' opens your eyes to inate sexuality, desires, and mortality.
There was no 'sanctioned' sexuality over another. No even by one man, one woman. Because God forbid 🚫 that fruit.
@@troysierra5228 the perfect omnipotent god idea didn’t come about until MUCH later than these creation myths. The god who created (El) in the Hebrew Bible and the patron god of Israel (YHWH) are two different gods. El is the kindly father type deity, whereas YHWH is depicted as a furious storm god with a big ego, a bad temper, and genocidal tendencies.
The first Bible in English, 1535 - The first complete Bible in English was published abroad, most likely in Antwerp, in 1535What does the Bible say about hitting a pregnant woman?
"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Just found your channel and I'm amazed with how wise and on point your arguments are. Keep up your deconstruction and this channel to help more and more people become enlightened. 👏👏👏
Thank you! I'm happy you're here 😊
@jezebelvibes I don't think you might realize what an outstanding job you're doing in each video you've posted. I've watched about 5 since yesterday and they were each like a light bulb in areas that I knew I questioned but didn't know quite how to explain why it made no sense. I'm Brazilian and I grew up in a very conservative catholic family. Today I live in California with my husband and our 4 kids and it's a hard realization to face the fact that I won't have a book or church to introduce to my kids where they can "easily" find the absolut truth for their every question, like my parents had. Being humble to accept the fact that we just don't know, and that it's ok to not know, is hard, but that's where we are today. My husband grew up in a hard core conservative Baptist family and church in NC and we're both happily on the same page navigating how to present our new truth to our children. It would be awesome to have a deconstruction series for kids, explaining what church/religion wants them to believe and why you don't have to be part of any of them to be a wholesome happy human being. 😊 💞
So if there's no knowledge of Good and Evil then how did they know that it would be wrong or evil to eat the fruit? Other words what are the Commandment of God not to eat of the tree being valid or invalid?
The YT algorithm did something right and suggested your channel. Yay! I really like the way you articulate these religious issues. Ever since I started to think about bibical literalism I've thought that the story of Adam and Eve was a set-up job that served to maintain a patriarchy.. I mean ,A & E didn't know they sinned until AFTER they ate the fruit so basically god was punishing toddlers. I also hadn't thought of Adam being so weak. So the patriarchy wants us to know that smart women are not to be trusted. Good job and I'm now a subscriber with notifications turned on.
You can't even make it past creation. 1LofT states that energy can't be created or destroyed, it can't happen naturally. One aspect of the 2LofT shows that the universe is winding down, usable energy is becoming less usable. Creation had to be done supernaturally at some point.
@@2fast2block The Adam and Eve story requires the supernatural but a supernatural creation doesn't validate the Adam and Eve story. The thought that an entity capable of creating the universe would then engineer the "fall of man" defies credulity.
@@malundy Adam sinned because he chose not to obey Gods commandment to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Giving him a choice to not eat from that tree and live was all on Adam , not God.
@@2fast2block spamming people won't get you the results you think it will, we aren't as daft as you hope.
@@brianjones2384 it's a stupid story, god ought to put fences around trees he doesn't want scrumped.
This is essentially taught to children in the form of "blanket training" from the Pearl's book "How to train up a child". The documentary on the Duggar family called "Shiny Happy People" talks about that as well and many Fundie Snarkers including Jen and James from Fundie Fridays have made videos about it.
I love Jen’s videos, especially how she and her husband addressed them. I recommend the we happy people documentary to anyone who doesn’t know what it’s really like to live in a Christian household, and you’d be shocked by the reality that such people don’t want you to know.
That's so true! What a great connection. I watched that docuseries and the blanket training really stood out to me.
The way you deconstruct the story book, amazing ❤
Your analysis is acute, I was reading right along. Thanks for the insight.
This is so brilliant. As a recovering former Christian I am so grateful when someone can so eloquently explain and point out the flaws in these stories we've taken for granted. It seems like it doesn't take much more than looking at a slightly different angle to see how false and disgusting these messages we learned as kids and into adolescents were. Thank you for putting yourself out there, for opening up yourself to the horrible attacks from fundies in comments to help us all learn and recover more thoroughly and healthily. We appreciate you.
Isn't it so facinating how just shifting your perspective and reading the story from a different angle completely changes how you interpret it? I'm always amazed by how indoctrination can make these wild stories believable and palatable. Thank you for your kind words and support
@@jezebelvibes it’s like the weezer song! All you have to do to destroy the sweater is pill one thread ;)
@@jezebelvibesGod created Adam and Eve sinless in a garden that provided everything that they needed to live. Adam clearly disobeyed God's command , and when his eyes were opened , he then knew shame and guilt , and his nakedness made him self conscious. God knows the end from the beginning. Adams one sin was the cause of everyone else sinning , but God intended to offer redemption for those who would faithfully follow him in spite of having a sinful nature.
@@brianjones2384 so god can't create people to be good, but he's happy to chuck them on the fire.
it's a story, mythology, nonsense basically.
@@brianjones2384 here's one for you, why not just let the people who don't want to follow god have their own universe where they can live like we happy atheists do, and leave it at that, if god is merciful and great and he can do anything he please, why not just accept he can't make everyone like him and give us our own universe to live happily in? what's so vital about punishment and burning people alive? why does there have to be a hell?
it's because it is MYTHOLOGY. you nit.