Another downside of the Pancake lenses is that you lose a lot of light in the internal reflections. This means that you have to drive the screens much harder (as much as 10x or more) in order to get photons through the gauntlet. This means more heat generation and more potential for burn-in. It isn't a HUGE downside, but it does exist.
Same. That, and I find myself not having to constantly shift my headset back into a narrow sweet spot. (Plus I no longer see the edges of the display on the widest IPD setting, which was something that always mid-key annoyed me with the Q2.)
one of the biggest reasons that pancake lenses are dimmer isn't because the light goes further, but because of the way folded optics work. They make use of polarized light, and that mixture of messing around with polarization, as well as bouncing off of surfaces that aren't perfect mirrors means that a lot of light gets lost
I think an important point about pancake is that they're very inefficient when it comes to light passthrough - you have to run panels much brighter to get enough light through them. That's why a lot of headsets now are dimmer than the old oled+fresnel ones. I also feel there's a bigger range of quality in pancake lenses than the others. Comparing the vive xr elite's lenses and the quest pro/3's it's a huge difference in fov, glare and clarity. I really hope that others can catch up to meta's pancake lenses because they really are the best at the moment.
First batches of Q3 had insane mura effect. And yes, it very dim. 30% brightness is comparable to 0% on a quest 2. But overall it could be a bit brighter than the old one, but I'm quite sensitive to light so i always played on 0 in Quest 2 and 20-40% on Quest 3, depending on time of day.
Pankcake optics were jaw-droppingly clear after being tied to fresnel lenses for 6 years! I never knew how bad I had it with fresnel lesnes~ I can't ever go back!
best thing i ever did with vr was upgrade my acer wmr headset to the pico 4, the pancake lenses made everything a lot nicer to look at and i could finally read text without having to shove my head against a wall
something i cannot wait for is when HDR actually comes to vr headsets. It will require better lens tech than we already have, cus i cant imagine the glare at 1000 nits on a dark background vs bright sun LOL. great video!
@@zig131 it 'is', it is the highest peak brightness in a headset yet but it's downsides is that it's using Fresnel lenses, it's peak brightness is only 265 nits compared to what you need for true HDR. We are still far from the 1000-2000 nits we need to full dilate pupils and emulate outside day bright brightness. Pancake lenses make brightness harder as it lowers the amount of light at the end of the 'tunnel'. We still have a very long way to go for true HDR in VR.
Also I forgot about meta's Varifocal lenses that change focus by activating pancake layers via voltage. I also can't wait for full depth perception in ways like this for vr, which will add a ton to the experience imo.
@@acacia27 And yet people insist that Fresnel is dead and Pancake is the future 🙄 . The high tech, bright, Micro OLED they are using in the Beyond and ABP paired with Fresnel would result in a superior HDR experience to any other HMD on the market.
I would like to addon about "only expensive headsets have aspheric lenses" The psvr1 and most cheap phone VRs have them to. Should you get them? Hell no.
I couldn't agree more, lenses are a huge deal. When I had the opportunity to try a high-end "professional" headset at a tech demo a few years ago I was shocked how good the peripheral vision was. The headset was a little heavy and wired-only, but it was unlike any other I'd worn... pretty cool. The company currently lists the maximum "experimental" FOV is 180° horizontally. The biggest problem... it starts around $10K and was designed for enterprise uses such as simulations/training... which means it also has a lot of proprietary parts and some features that no normal game would support, keeping the price high 😅 Hopefully cutting-edge VR tech will continue to evolve and some aspects will reach mainstream markets.
i did always wonder why the "era" of aspheric lenses never really started and now i have my answer realistically though, i have no idea how lenses can get better than pancake lenses, or if it's even worth trying to make a better lens since they're so close to perfect
Pancake lenses don’t have very good light transmission. Couple that with the (relatively) low light output, and you’ll get kind of a dim image. There’s plenty of work to do with the material science, coatings, manufacturing tolerances, and screen output that can make things better!
maybe it was outside of the scope of the video but while pancake are great they also are extremely inefficient, between 90 to 80% of the light the display produce do not end up in your eyes, so a 5000 nits display can end up being a 500/1000 nits to your eyes and that before taking in account display duty cycle, at the end of the day they may be the best compromise we have today but still a compromise
He didn't go into those details, but it was referenced. That is why the pancake lenses would feel murky in comparison to the aspherical. And as he said, it is something you would never notice unless you tried a side by side comparison. I haven't had any issues with brightness on my Quest 3 with the pancake lenses. But I do agree with you that this is definitely an area where there is potentially room for improvement in the current lens technology.
If you get the chance, have a look at the Fresnel lenses in the HP Reverb G2, they are god tier Fresnel lenses and really show what could be achieved with good design.
@@messoremvitae In my country, post-pandemic economy, the Vive can be insanely expansive if it's almost new, around 2000 USD... Before it was much affordable, not cheap, but affordable.
The glare on the quest 3 isn’t really all that bad it’s some what noticeable in dark areas with high contrast but it doesn’t burn your eyes like god rays dose 😂
I like your videos you talked about pico 4 pro a little in this video do you have a better review of it, other than what every one have been so far where they just say it sucks, im kinda interested in it since it got face and eye tracking and its very cheap compared to a quest pro, What im relly wondering about is why ppl say it sucks ? is it the program ? is it the headset itself ? is it using it for long periodes of time ?
@@hacksmash the only thing that turns me off from quest pro is that it’s a standalone headset which means that all the other LH stuff I have will only work through calibration which is never perfect even with continuous fork, not to mention latency, streaming artifacts and overall clunkiness of the setup…
pancakes pancakes pancakesss!!! can't go back to my rift cv1 after seeing pico4 the edge to edge clarity on fresnel lens are so bad compares to pancakes
![The Most ADVANCED VR Game in the WORLD! [Resonite]](/img/n.gif)
BABE WAKE UP
(I wish)
Boneless uploaded anotha video!
Why is grass blue?
Another downside of the Pancake lenses is that you lose a lot of light in the internal reflections. This means that you have to drive the screens much harder (as much as 10x or more) in order to get photons through the gauntlet. This means more heat generation and more potential for burn-in.
It isn't a HUGE downside, but it does exist.
3:21 the face I make when there's food in front of me
nom nom nom
WATCHING YOU POP THE LENS OFF GAVE ME SHIVERS
The FOV being low in asperic lenses is just a Varjo thing. The pimax crystal gives me more FOV than my Quest 3
WAKE UP THE GOAT UPLOADED
This is honestly what justified my choice of upgrading from a Quest 2 to a Quest 3, that visual clarity on games really makes a difference
Same. That, and I find myself not having to constantly shift my headset back into a narrow sweet spot. (Plus I no longer see the edges of the display on the widest IPD setting, which was something that always mid-key annoyed me with the Q2.)
Me as well. Wanted a clear, light headset. Holy crap that clean image coming through the lenses with no annoying god rays had me in nirvana
Definitely the same here, both the clarity and weight of the quest 3 was my reason to upgrade, the weight being lower is greatly due to the lenses
@@flamingscar5263actually it's heavier
@@batterypwrlowquest 3 is heavier than the 2 🤓
one of the biggest reasons that pancake lenses are dimmer isn't because the light goes further, but because of the way folded optics work. They make use of polarized light, and that mixture of messing around with polarization, as well as bouncing off of surfaces that aren't perfect mirrors means that a lot of light gets lost
I think an important point about pancake is that they're very inefficient when it comes to light passthrough - you have to run panels much brighter to get enough light through them. That's why a lot of headsets now are dimmer than the old oled+fresnel ones.
I also feel there's a bigger range of quality in pancake lenses than the others. Comparing the vive xr elite's lenses and the quest pro/3's it's a huge difference in fov, glare and clarity. I really hope that others can catch up to meta's pancake lenses because they really are the best at the moment.
Great points
First batches of Q3 had insane mura effect. And yes, it very dim. 30% brightness is comparable to 0% on a quest 2. But overall it could be a bit brighter than the old one, but I'm quite sensitive to light so i always played on 0 in Quest 2 and 20-40% on Quest 3, depending on time of day.
New boneless video, today is a W already
Pankcake optics were jaw-droppingly clear after being tied to fresnel lenses for 6 years!
I never knew how bad I had it with fresnel lesnes~
I can't ever go back!
best thing i ever did with vr was upgrade my acer wmr headset to the pico 4, the pancake lenses made everything a lot nicer to look at and i could finally read text without having to shove my head against a wall
something i cannot wait for is when HDR actually comes to vr headsets. It will require better lens tech than we already have, cus i cant imagine the glare at 1000 nits on a dark background vs bright sun LOL.
great video!
I can't wait either. Closest we have rn is the MeganeX that has 10-bit color and is advertised as HDR.
Isn't PSVR2 HDR?
@@zig131 it 'is', it is the highest peak brightness in a headset yet but it's downsides is that it's using Fresnel lenses, it's peak brightness is only 265 nits compared to what you need for true HDR. We are still far from the 1000-2000 nits we need to full dilate pupils and emulate outside day bright brightness.
Pancake lenses make brightness harder as it lowers the amount of light at the end of the 'tunnel'.
We still have a very long way to go for true HDR in VR.
Also I forgot about meta's Varifocal lenses that change focus by activating pancake layers via voltage. I also can't wait for full depth perception in ways like this for vr, which will add a ton to the experience imo.
@@acacia27 And yet people insist that Fresnel is dead and Pancake is the future 🙄 . The high tech, bright, Micro OLED they are using in the Beyond and ABP paired with Fresnel would result in a superior HDR experience to any other HMD on the market.
I would like to addon about "only expensive headsets have aspheric lenses" The psvr1 and most cheap phone VRs have them to. Should you get them? Hell no.
i truly do prefer my vr information videos be boneless
Love your content so much that your one of the few channels I actually have notifications on for
I couldn't agree more, lenses are a huge deal. When I had the opportunity to try a high-end "professional" headset at a tech demo a few years ago I was shocked how good the peripheral vision was. The headset was a little heavy and wired-only, but it was unlike any other I'd worn... pretty cool. The company currently lists the maximum "experimental" FOV is 180° horizontally. The biggest problem... it starts around $10K and was designed for enterprise uses such as simulations/training... which means it also has a lot of proprietary parts and some features that no normal game would support, keeping the price high 😅
Hopefully cutting-edge VR tech will continue to evolve and some aspects will reach mainstream markets.
Great video as per usuall thanks for the lil lesson
After the beyond. I learned lenses are important
i did always wonder why the "era" of aspheric lenses never really started
and now i have my answer
realistically though, i have no idea how lenses can get better than pancake lenses, or if it's even worth trying to make a better lens since they're so close to perfect
Pancake lenses don’t have very good light transmission. Couple that with the (relatively) low light output, and you’ll get kind of a dim image. There’s plenty of work to do with the material science, coatings, manufacturing tolerances, and screen output that can make things better!
ive been using my modded htc vive for years poped them out & put gear vr lens in alot sharper but you can see more pixels
Mmmm, delicious screen door effect🤤
Video was really informative mayne. Keep it up!
I'd argue the most important part of a VR Headset is the IMU
I tried going back to my trusty old G2 with fernel lenses after using the quest 3 for a few weeks. It was a shockingly worse than I remembered.
Why do you have a Blahaj?
Honey wake up, new Boneless video dropped :D
Note: There is nothing expensive or heavy about plastic aspherical lenses.
*OUR LAWD AND SAVIOUR DOTH UPLOAD ONCE MORE*
maybe it was outside of the scope of the video but while pancake are great they also are extremely inefficient, between 90 to 80% of the light the display produce do not end up in your eyes, so a 5000 nits display can end up being a 500/1000 nits to your eyes and that before taking in account display duty cycle, at the end of the day they may be the best compromise we have today but still a compromise
He didn't go into those details, but it was referenced. That is why the pancake lenses would feel murky in comparison to the aspherical. And as he said, it is something you would never notice unless you tried a side by side comparison. I haven't had any issues with brightness on my Quest 3 with the pancake lenses.
But I do agree with you that this is definitely an area where there is potentially room for improvement in the current lens technology.
If you get the chance, have a look at the Fresnel lenses in the HP Reverb G2, they are god tier Fresnel lenses and really show what could be achieved with good design.
In what way they are god tier? From my experience g2’s lenses have the SMALLEST sweet spot among every headset I tried
Interestingly enough psvr1 have aspheric lenses too.
0:05 DIRT CHEAP???Dude the HTC vive still cost 3 times that of meta quest 2 in my country
for me the quest 2 is 350 and the quest 3 is 800. Quest 2 it is. XD The Vive is 250 used here.
@@messoremvitae In my country, post-pandemic economy, the Vive can be insanely expansive if it's almost new, around 2000 USD... Before it was much affordable, not cheap, but affordable.
I could never go back from the pancakes in my Quest 3.
i see that mod mic magnet on your quest
one of us! one of us!
blahaj eye torture😃
"Pankake", continues to use sandwiches.
Too bad the bigscreen beyond doesn't ship to Malaysia :(
I'd argue the most important part of a VR headset is comfort, but lenses are definitely number 2.
Maybe you can tell me what your setup is so that you have the current avatar, software or hardware. Good thank you :)
Killed it with this video!
can you share the song at the end of the video
ty boneless
The glare on the quest 3 isn’t really all that bad it’s some what noticeable in dark areas with high contrast but it doesn’t burn your eyes like god rays dose 😂
what about the new technology that meta researches with LG called holographic lenses?
I like your videos you talked about pico 4 pro a little in this video do you have a better review of it, other than what every one have been so far where they just say it sucks,
im kinda interested in it since it got face and eye tracking and its very cheap compared to a quest pro,
What im relly wondering about is why ppl say it sucks ? is it the program ?
is it the headset itself ?
is it using it for long periodes of time ?
can you update your discord link?
3:21 who was bro tryna rizz lmfao
Hope you get more patreon so you can afford real pancakes one day
i hope your blahaj doesnt have eye damage now
oh and btw i always have my ar behind me when im gamin too
New VR Creator that's actually worth watching🥹
I LOVE YOU BRO >w
Literally the only thing I want is a headset with pancake lenses (or better) and eye tracking that I can connect with my pc😬
that would be the quest pro, sadly it's still way more expensive than a quest 3
@@hacksmash the only thing that turns me off from quest pro is that it’s a standalone headset which means that all the other LH stuff I have will only work through calibration which is never perfect even with continuous fork, not to mention latency, streaming artifacts and overall clunkiness of the setup…
someone should sneak a headset onto someone as a prank image suddenly getting pancake lenses view of Shark infested deep waters >:3
Well Now I Just Want Some Pancakes.....
Oh my gosh
what did the oculus rift cv1 use?
Fresnel
Hello blahaj!
Blahaj spotted :3
Using bread because too lazy to make pancakes 😭
I bet boneless really likes pancakes
Surprise boneless video
IDK for me pancakes in the big screen are awful. The edge to edge clarity and glare are way worse than the index for me.
Boneless I love you please come home the kids miss you
BONELESS FACE REVEAL?
Lets go gamers
3:21 me when I see a random cockroach in my living room
hello boneman , is it worth it to get a index in 2024?
Get a quest 3
Hi hi!
Boneless you exist (this is amazing) (I want to be pinned for no reason)
Hi :3
BonelessVR why you're using a girl avatar?
1:42 VRChat made you a woman after all
BLÅHAJ
pancakes pancakes pancakesss!!!
can't go back to my rift cv1 after seeing pico4
the edge to edge clarity on fresnel lens are so bad compares to pancakes
furry avis blahaj film lenses... hmmm
271st liker :3
Htc vive, more like... htc... bad
WHYYYY the creepy tongue stuff dude? Great video otherwise, but I'm losing sleep over that SOR behaviour
L youtuber, unsubscribbled