Jaguar XS just Towed In. I’m in over my head! Customer States: “Check Battery”
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Good move. All those other issues could have been a network issue or worst case a wrongly connected battery or jump pack that wiped out some modules. It could have been a bottomless pit of time and parts.
@bigclivedotcom
Very good guess, someone fried and damaged the ECU with an improper jump/boost
Oh wait.. Big Clive.. your watching Ray too.. cheers. Have a good day
I completely agree
As always you did the right thing!
@@watershed44 I watched someone send 24V through a 12V system. Luckily not long enough to damage much, but it really didn't like it
My Land Rover's alternator failed and the low voltage is a problem with all the computers. They don't like it and you get a bunch of errors like that Jag is doing.
Jaguar POS
Low voltage does the same on many new cars, though forcing it into park is a nuisance. Like killing the engine due to a bad sensor.
Or they fried modules while swapping that battery out. (Ie wrong polarity on install or improper jump) it’s better to have it properly diagnosed instead of throwing parts at it.
I am old tho and have been trying to replace the Bushings on the Jeep for 4 months now. I work on it till I get Hurt . Heal up for several days and then get hurt again. over and over an over . Had to cut bolts off and replace. Use tools that take 3 or 4 hands to use and other uses of leverage to do things I'm not strong enough to do any more. I enjoy watching you struggle making repairs I have done in the past. And Laughing at some of your Ideas most of which I have done myself.
I loved this video. There is nothing wrong with knowing and admitting to one's limits. Unfortunately, not all mechanics feel the same, and that's what leads to thousands in repairs, months in the shop, and the epiphany that the problem was a dead fuse all along, meanwhile half the components under the bonnet have been replaced. 🙄
Or a loose ground wire under the dash...
Parts cannon sequence now at 100% !
Ahh, yes the old Jag issues, now I had one of these and I had a very similar issue. I eventually found the issue, I had a damp carpet from a wind screen seal leak, when it rained I leaked down the bulkhead and after a time corroded the BMU. One of the issues was random stops, gearbox stopped working. I was about to have my revenge on it and get it crushed, but I had the penny drop with an endoscope and trace the leak, low and behold behind the dash was a part of hell that I did not want to see again. I took me 4 hours to dismantle the dash, and repair the corrosion, replaced BMU and got a new windscreen put in and it was back to as it should. If you ever buy one, lift the rubber mats, check the carpets, smell damp? walk away. ~Trooper
Did that very thing not too long ago, lifted the hatch on a crossover. It was wet under the plastic trim. Could have been the rear window, or maybe the seal. Wasn't interested in finding out ,so I passed on buying it.
That's a job for the chauffeur old bean.
Skip everything you said but the last two words, “walk away”
Like my BMW F11 530d
Whats a BMU. Never heard of that one and I work for Jag/LR
Had the same thing happen to my Jag XF....
Flat battery, all the same thing's on the dash low voltage, gearbox warnings, jumped it to start and same thing gearbox locked in park. Got a fully charged battery in and same thing errors and no garage to the battery.
Checked the alternator and it wasn't sending any charge so new alternator fitted and started straight up no other codes gearbox working fine 👌 happy days apart from the £600. Bill for the new alternator and the labour.... little more investigation needed, lack of power to the battery and electrical system should have started you to question the alternator wich may have been as far as you needed to go.... would be interested to see what the outcome was at the end of the video....
Watch out for 2021 Nissan Rogue. Starting to see a lot off this exact issue. Any updates would be beautiful!!
You my friend are a great motor engineer... no charge for the work you did... I know of many who would have charged for a) the reading with the diagnostic tool and b) for your labour... I have an X-type 3.0L jag... Don't live locally though... am in UK.. heh heh heh.
years ago i had jaguar x type brakes job went wrong calipers will lock it up so tow truck to local shop he replaced calipers and still same issue flushed fluid changed fluid container got charge over $1000.00 from him he charged me also to tow to jaguar dealer they fixed problem over$1500,oo so never used him again end up was abs system ,,,,
You didn't fix it, but that's also a lesson to learn as to know when to admit it's time to let it go. No time loss, it was educational. Thank you.
The right decision. That car is an electronic nightmare.
Thanks
You probably would have worked it out given enough time, but you can't charge a customer for 10 hours of working stuff out that a dealer can just get straight on to, so you did the right thing by yourself. If you took the job on you'd just be doing a whole bunch of work for free, with no guarantee you'd even get the job done and be able to charge anything at all.
I love my German cars, but they are ALL Super Sensitive to voltage issues.. You'd think they'd engineer them better for the price.. When the Price Goes Up, so do my expectations.
As a retired technician (mechanic) I have been in similar situations here in the UK. I was even threatened with the sack for not being able to diagnose the first Lexus with the digital dash that had a fault in one of the modules and the displays were all over the place. My boss was too bloody tight to get the workshop disks at £700 each and expected me to just start pulling wires, chase the circuit board tracks and 'play' with it for 6 hours so he could charge a massive amount and then send it to the Toyota dealership for repair. I refused then walked out.. Smartest move I ever made. Kudos to you for your honesty, it's a bitch when customers think we know everything about anything mechanical and assume we are just trying to get more money!
Suspect on the xf it will be the ecu (ecm) found on the lower right side. As mine had the same problems? Common problem! These get damp and rust the pins after finding the cost of a replacement plus the added nightmare of getting it to read the vehicle after, I decided to have it taken apart and solder repairs made✔Problem fixed.
The honesty to say to a customer "I don't know how to fix this, your better off with the dealer" is a big thing to do. And the right thing too. Big respect to you Ray
It's OK to say "You need a factory trained tech on this particular brand" of auto.
Everyone wants a honest mechanic.
Perfect example, right there.
Those cars can be very complicated I know this first hand. I have a 06 7 series BMW which is similarly complicated. Good decision to refer it to the dealer. They have the training and tools to perform the repair.
@@onebadsavage26 as a person who works on 2006 BMW 7 series DME's, I can 1000% certainly say your car is more complicated
This was painful to watch. I’m a Jaguar/Land Rover technician and this is something I deal with more often than not. I’m also surprised to see so many people applauding you for concluding that you don’t know the answer. Even without a dollar amount attached to that answer, I’ve always encountered a customer tantrum and/or accusations of incompetence when I’ve suggested this both at a dealerships and at aftermarket shops. It takes skill to know what you don’t know. I enjoy your content. Thanks for taking the time to record and display your repairs.
European vehicles are an absolute pain to work on. You pretty much need a rocket science degree to work on them. I won't own a vehicle that's not simple to work on or has a reliable track history. Jaguars are notorious for being in a service bay more often than on the road. Ray isn't a Jaguar dealer tech. If someone takes their Jaguar to a dealer, they expect the dealer to resolve it as their techs are suppose to be factory trained and have the appropriate tools to diagnose the problem. Many repair facilities will refuse to work on European vehicles because of how difficult they are to diagnose and the expense involved in training and tools to properly diagnose them.
I literally bought a 97 jeep cause i know how to fix that and i dont know much about my 2010 focus that usually sees a shop when something breaks
@@MileytheJeepV2 This was a pet peeve of my father's. Anything that's newer and more computerized is more difficult to diagnose. You then have to have decent scan tools to diagnose the problem. My father avoided buying newer vehicles. He'd be happy if fuel injection was never invented and everything still had a carburetor. My father was an old school mechanic and machinist. He believed vehicles shouldn't have computers in them.
@@LVLouisCyphre that’s not true it’s actually not as complicated to work on new cars as people think it is. People don’t want to learn new technology and get qualified to diagnose newer vehicles but as long as you learn how the systems work, learn good diagnostic techniques like using a lab scope and having common sense you can pretty much diagnose anything. A real technician never turns down a car.
@@fernandohernandez-mf8fk Most automotive savvy YTers refuse to work on them because of how difficult they are to work on and require specialized tools and software. I guess Car Wizard, Scotty Kilmer and Rainman Ray's Repair are all wrong. BS. I will never own a POS European money pit car. The mutual consensus is they are money pits. A real tech knows their limitations and walks away from something beyond their pay or equipment and tool grade. A smart vehicle buyer stays away from money pits.
You're probably some BMW or Jaguar boy.
Tell you what, I have six figures in my inheritance and pretty much can afford anything. How about if *YOU* maintain my vehicle for the life of the vehicle if I buy one of these money pits?
"I don't posses the knowledge to fix this." These words (I know it's not exactly what he said but still) are okay to say. No one person can know everything there is to know about everything. If you can't fix it, send it to someone who can. It's perfectly fine.
Trust me all the euro cars require some very bs special tools. Its not worth it. I've turned down jobs only for another guy in the shop I worked in to say HEY I CAN DO THAT ITS EASY. Only to have them cause thousands of dollars in said damages to the car they made fun of me turning away, after me saying we don't have the specialized tools to work on that car here.
@@CrazyCat229 ain't that the truth 😅 lol
I think this why my Mechanic has a sign on wall the I am a domestic repair shop with some knowledge of imports if your car is over 90k be warned I will most likely send your Vehicle to the dealership if it not a simple repair .
And exactly the right thing to do.
@@tdadp I like that lol
Ray, I'm a fan. It's amazing to me to see a professional mechanic go through a logical, methodical process to diagnose troublesome vehicle problems. Watching many of your videos is helping me in my thought processes as I attempt to diagnose and repair my own vehicles.
I have nothing but respect for you for your honesty and acknowledging your own limitations. Thank you.
What? A mechanic humble enough to realize his limits? That earned you a new sub, Sir...
Real mechanics don't have limits
Needs to take it to nasa lol toooooo many electronics for my liking
A smart person knows when to play dumb
I would rather have a mechanic say they don't have the experience to fix it then one who says they know but don't have a clue
@@phat-motoxer9022 yep, honesty should always be rewarded
My experience with European cars is that they are absolutely crazy when the alternator goes out. Replacing the alternator and battery solved all issues.
Exactly what happened to mine. Had the same exact problems. It was in fact the alternator. Love my Jaguar to death.
@@SoulTransfusion No idea why Jag owners love them so much. There’s honestly a laundry list of cars that are better or that’s I’d rather have.
I inherited one. My head said sell it. I picked up a wrench just to tighten a couple of things and now its worse than a crack addiction. I’ve about rebuilt the whole damn thing. It’s hard to put into words why 😩
@@roji556 agreed. while i was in europe i drove a lot of different vehicles and jags were by far the absolute bottom of the barrel for the class and price. Feature for feature BMW, MB (and i really didn't like MB's styling) and even Audi just made the jags look and feel like trash by comparison. Materials, fit and finish, power delivery....the jag really had nothing better than the others, and the automatic ones shifted like a 13 year old american kid who stole their dad's ride and hasn't learned to drive stick.
@@bo64hellfire Jags are cheap here in the uk, you get a lot of car/performance for the price, 70's and 80's ones were great designs built very badly by a militant socialist workforce with weak management, 90's onwards were ford based (floorpans/engines) granted they don't have the build quality of german cars but they cost less.
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold en, know when to run lol.
My thoughts exactly
If you are going to quote someone, give them credit! RIP Kenny Rogers.
You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for count'en when the dealen's done.
@@calvinevans8305 You never count your money when it sitting in the repair stall. There'll be time enough for count'en when the fixin's done.
FTFY! :D
Hallmark of a professional, admitting when their knowledge/skills are inadequate for the current challenge and they should seek more qualified assistance.
As I've always said, drive what you can afford to fix, you buy a high end vehicle take it to the dealership. I like how Ray is willing to admit even though he is a skill technician, we all have our limitations.
Sometimes it’s not a matter of skill, sometimes it’s a matter of experience. Two of my cousins are mechanics one is a diesel mechanic one is a motorcycle tech for Kawasaki and Suzuki. Both consult my father on matters regarding jeeps from the 90s or GM small block V8s made from 68-99. My father holds no certifications, but he’s worked on those engines himself for so many years he knows what symptoms usually indicate what issues on those engines.
NO SHAME
Or you get a premium five year warranty and fixed servicing. You’d be surprised what you can get through a decent dealer. I recently purchased a 17 plate XJ and they gave me a full plan for less than a grand and chucked in a wear and tear policy for just £30 a month paid over a year. Car drives sublime.
I’m sure there are lots of people even at the dealership who don’t know how to fix this. I bet it takes a tech who has a special endorsement to figure out what’s going on with the computer system.
It’s the one thing people forget/neglect regarding cars… I generally maintain all of my cars but, I also will know when to call in a professional. Prevention is better than a cure in this case.
May not be of much help but I own one in the UK and had a similar issue last year with just about every warning it could throw at me and took two jump packs just to get it to crank. Turned out it was a shot circuit in the alternator pulling the voltage too low for any of the modules
Parasitic drain from Alternator , Red warning light on dashboard in the past .... (Alternators need a power source to engage their charge system unlike Dynamos ) ...❤
Read my story Carl, old BMW, alternator refused to put out enough volts ECU said NOPE and shut everything down,
I just had that happen to me on an Acura. It drained a fully charged new battery in less than five minutes, or whatever the metric system converts to from American.
@@InsideOfMyOwnMind yes my fully charged battery was down to 4 volts in less than 5 minutes and the battery was very warm. Thought I would need to replace the battery as well as the alternator but it’s still good a year later
Just what I commented on. Happened in my BMW as well.
Dealership told customer to take it to Ray. 😁
A parallel might be - "don't go to a doctor with a tooth-ache, go to a dentist". Right to turn customer away with the correct advice.
Your decision to turn the job away, based on your experience as a motor mechanic was, in my opinion, the absolutely correct thing to do.
Added to that, your further decision to make no charge, puts you in a league of one of the most honest and decent mechanics that ever drew a breath of fresh (or stale) air.
Your sense of "fairness" is a credit to you and knowing when not to get involved is vitally important if you are going to avoid the unenviable task of trying to climb your way out of the slimy pit of doom, gloom and failure.
So, Ray, "well done, Sir..........................the world needs a hell of a lot more more, "Rays."
Hey I totally understand where you coming from and I commend you for being an awesome person and admitting it. I've run into some mechanics that literally screwed me in past. Your a great human being and very entertaining
I had a friend come to me with a gunsmithing job. I had to tell him that I was unable to do it. His stock was broken and the gun was over 100 years old. Hand-fitted stocks from Belgium. Not a chance. He seemed upset with me, but it was his family's fault for leaving the gun in a barn and using bailing wire to fix the original crack from 1920 or so.
Refer him to a carpenter instead.
Custom made, hand fitted stock... 😅
@@reallifeengineer7214 Sure...a framing carpenter would be perfect...
I used to do antique firearms restoration as a hobby to relax after twisting wrenches all day. Those were the ones I loved working on. I found it relaxing to either repair the original parts so there was no indication that it had ever been damaged or if it was beyond repair I would replace the damaged stock or portion of the stock with wood that matched the original which usually required getting a large enough piece of the correct type of wood from the country/region of origin from the same timeframe that the original was made, usually from a piece of furniture, or something from an old building that had been dismantled and salvaged. It wasn’t cheap, but was worth it to some people as it was a family heirloom. I also used the same types of stain (often aqua-fortis on really old or hand crafted ones) and finish (usually many coats of hand rubbed boiled linseed oil, sometimes shellac, or on a rare occasion varnish)as the original and would tint it to match the original so it looked right and any relief carvings or inlays matched the originals.
@@reallifeengineer7214 Custom 2x4 stock for the win! It's custom because he used a Hyper Tough jigsaw... and there will never be another one exactly like it.
@Rainman Ray's Repairs
*I'd love to hear what the diagnosis was from the customer when they take it to the Jag Specialist.*
I'm darn curious, and frankly I think a decent customer would respect you for trying to follow up on the repair!
id bet dollars to donuts its a short and/or a bad alt. modern luxury cars are sensitve to voltage issues
I have a Jag and the clue is in the multiple error codes, that's always a sign of a battery/alternator/earthing problem. I'm sure the dealer just fixed that charging issue, be it a dead alternator or bad earth and everything else would totally fine after.
I would bet that its a bad alternator, or something in the alternator circuit. But chances are that someone damaged the bcm trying to jump start the car after the alternator died. Like i have seen quite a few times.
Very admirable of you not to charge the Jag owners for your labor. I wish more mechanics where like you
Ray, a good mechanic friend of mine once told me..."a good mechanic knows when to say no". You made the right call. 👍
As an owner of some older (and some much older) European vehicles, "I'm not qualified to work on this" is a perfectly acceptable response from a mechanic. But to give you some added perspective from the customer, I'm very willing to pay time for a mechanic who is willing to dig in and learn a little bit about a vehicle he's not familiar with. Contributing to my mechanic's education is money well spent rather than just taking it to a dealer whose techs are often no more knowledgeable than the independent, and are just going to start swapping out parts on my dime until the problem goes away. I know not every independent mechanic has the inclination or time to dig in and learn an exotic, but when I find one that does, he's got my loyalty.
I think the difficulty is what shops are willing to pay for software. Automotive is extremely expensive, and of the dealerships have the software for their vehicles. If I had to bet money then I’d say that the dealer is just going to clear and reprogram the entire system and then slap you with a $5-10k fee (or probably more). Some times some really odd stuff can happen to the E2PROM in the vehicle, and at that point there isn’t a way to fix it without reprogramming it. Who knows what happened though, I just think it’d be a huge hassle to actually pinpoint the exact issue, because it could of messed with a number of things, especially if it was just sending random signals all willy nilly.
Came here to make the software comment
Sadly I live in the same town as Ray I had a Jag, The jag dealership is crap.
I totally agree, but an even better solution is to find a good independent who specialises in the vehicle or manufacturer you own. That way, you benefit from the experience they gained on other people’s identical cars.
Its always awkward to be a european hearing our cars spoken about as if they were an ancient creature found in the forest 😂
Gotta respect a man that knows his limitations instead of letting his ego get him in too deep then having to make excuses to get out of it. Much respect!
If you pound the dash to the left of the steering wheel and call it names, everything will reset. Next.
And dont forget to kick it
If Its a UK manufactured model don't forget to sit in the passenger seat and slap the dash on the far right... should solve it!
You would need to speak in an English accent, and use names like "Work ya Bugger!" or "Start ya Bastard!"
Best thing to say to a car is the shop has great insurance piss me off and see what happens.
@@davimel4051 Probably built at the old Ford plant at Halewood in Liverpool.
Nothing but respect. You can tell you're becoming a master of your trade. The hardest part for any Tradesmen is to know when to walk away.
I know techs who know how to work on European vehicles and they walk away when they see a JLR product 🤣
Not really. The hardest part is taking a full bee bee sea
My friend, I worked for the Penske Automotive Group in Los Angeles back in early part of 2000's. We had several dealerships (ALL Import models ONLY) and one of them was a Jaguar location. Anyway, while I worked in the IT department I KNEW enough to know that EVEN MB's were EASIER to fix than the Jag's were!!! YOU DID PERFECTLY RIGHT when you figured out that beyond the simple things such as an OIL change or a new battery EVERYTHING BEYOND THAT POINT TAKES AT LEAST 2 FULL YEARS of schooling BEFORE you are able to work on any type of Jag AFTER 1998 on up to the present! So you've done right ALL AROUND HERE OK!!! I've been watching you now on and off for about 1/2 a year or so and I WISH you were here in UTAH!!! It seems that ANY of the mechanics around here are EITHER INEPT OR CROOKED BEYOND BELIEF!!! YOU ARE NOT and because of that I just wanted you to know that WE ALL APPRECIATE ALL YOU DO!
I've owned several Jags (and just bought another) and do most of the work myself. It's not that hard if you have 1/2 brain and can follow directions. You also need to have access to factory service manuals (via AllData ~$60/year) and access to Jags factory computer diagnostics (~$300 plus hacked Chinese software). The real problem with Jags is that, particularly used ones, they are bought by people who can't afford to maintain them. Same is true for just about every other high-end luxury Euro car, but used Jags are generally esp. cheap.
TL;DR - if you want to own a high-end European car, you need to be able & willing to spend the $$$ to maintain it otherwise it will break and cost a lot more to fix.
@@ckm-mkc this is what I usually find as well. Its not that they can't afford to maintain them either, they just don't get shit serviced until the repair bill is 3/4 of the value of the car and they off them
jesus.... did you find any polyps while you were up there?
A Jaguar owner is the kind of man who takes his wife to a Bed and Breakfast for the weekend. Then spends the entire weekend flirting furiously with the waitress but it OK and expected because… he drives a Jaaaaaag.🤪 - J. Clarkson
They do say. Want to get a shag buy a Jag.
We seriously need more tradesmen like yourself. You're a good man.
☝This.
Good call!
Again it's good to see you're doing your best to help your customer.
Other mechanics would've started with the alternator and then kept adding to the parts list until they realized it was out of their league.
You're an honest man.
Keep up the good work.
Cheers from Ontario Canada.
Of course the alternator would have likely fixed it but sure....
I owned a 2011 Jaguar XF and it was a nightmare car. I said never again will I buy a Jaguar. And now own a Ford and haven't looked back.
You are a class act for not charging them, that was the right thing to do! I would definitely come back to your shop for giving me an honest answer! keep up the good work!
i mean he did charge them... with a cable...
@@martinungar6146 bruh
I enjoyed the fact you knew when to stop while you're ahead.
You dodged a major headache as professionally and as efficiently as possible.
Kudos for that!
There is no problem for being an honest mechanic, which these days there a few of the honest one are left around.
I have encountered some many dishonest mechanics in my life that no one may believe it.
Great job. Realizing something is beyond your expertise and suggesting that they go to the dealer. Honesty is the best thing to do.
Jaguars will tend to throw countless of random errors like that when the alternator fails, making the car undrivable... Chances are high that changing the alternator fixes everything. But then again, as a Jaguar owner without the budget to have someone work on it for me, I tend to throw the part-cannon at it too haha
Just a fully charged battery might get rid of those errors , modern cars like that are power hungry and just a small drop will make them throw a tantrum
@@UserUser-ww2nj from experience not with jags... XJ and XF will throw insane codes with a bad alternator and render the car useless... No reason for it to be different with XE...
@@traxnada I had s jag , luckily not one of the mega complicated ones like this one , it was from when ford owned them , the x-type , good solid transit diesel engine and gave me no problems . One thing I learnt from that car was how companies cut back on things to save money . The wiring harness wires got thinner and thinner the further back towards the rear you went , ended up ey the kind of gauge you find in computers . Only real disadvantage was with the fibre optics system, you had to buy the accessories made for the car if you wanted a c.d changer and they were not cheap. Advantages were that once you found out it ran the same running gear as the Mondeo you bought those parts and saved a third on price parts
Many euros are similar. My bmws throw all sorts of tantrums if the voltage is below 13.7v (charging from alternator)....You get endless codes from all modules...Putting a new battery in wont fix it because it expects to be seeing 13.7v when running and not ~12v.....however, a new alternator, use bmw software to clear all the codes and like magic its all good again.
i nearly bought a jaguar as my first car and got talked out if it for these exact reasons
7:25 it's Ford and Volvo parts meshed together with Tata flavour.
I don't see this as exotic sorry :D
Those dam super flashy cars are LOADED with computers after computers, If they see incorrect voltage they will chuck a hissy fit. I have to say i do not blame you for walking away from this one.
"Hissy fit" immediately reminds me of viperkeeper's channel when some of his snakes happen to be in a bad mood.
Not even just on flashy cars. It's more of a modern car thing. I know some Toyota's will throw an ABS failure and traction control off light on the dash if the check engine light turns on.
I took a complete chance on a cheap Jag XJ I never test drove, on which the MOT had expired after it was part exchanged and had sat a few months.
Battery was understandably flat when it arrived at my home on a flat bed, but charged it up and it started up.
Sounded awful and so many different faults displayed for transmission, air suspension etc and thought OMG what have I done.
Put a brand new quality battery in, cleared the codes and it was transformed, flying straight through an MOT.
I got that car for an absolute pittance, because they were too scared of what it might cost, yet it had just 2 previous owners and a full main dealer service history.
Changed every fluid and filter in it including servicing the auto transmission, dropping down the valve plate, replacing the Mechatronic seals and it is still going great over 2 years on.
Yes it does scare me with so many modules to complicate things, but so far doing well.
I service it regularly and only work not done by myself was an aircon topup.
Given I've always steered well clear of modern cars for sake of simplicity and this is my first to even have an OBD2 port, I'm quite proud of myself.
I'm not a mechanic but having the confidence to dive in, motivated by the poverty not to outsource, has served me well.
However I'd never work on anyone else's car if I didn't have experience of that particular problem.
Learning is something to do on your own vehicles at your own risk.
@@matthewjenkins1161 Keep up the good work, It's becoming a thing of the past men/women working on cars soon it will be so dam complicated no one will be able to work on a car soon.
@@adamjones2025 They are and there is plenty on the car that terrifies me if it should fail. I've been very lucky so far having taken a big risk in the first place. Fortunately though complex, many parts like air suspension pumps and struts have come way down in price to affordable levels. It is the modules that scare me if they fail and require reprogramming, as I simply couldn't afford the rates charged.
“I’m hot and tired and my coffee has worn off.”
Been there, done that.
After the second restart, you didn't have any gearbox warning message, just the information to press the brake pedal to engage a gear (which is a standard message). The U errors are pretty normal, after low battery condition. Don't know the US cars, but European one behave like this in case of charging failure. Also, the forced parking gear, when you have stopped, is a failsafe feature, not a gearbox failure. This gearbox needs electricity to operate, so when the alternator has failed, and battery goes low it will safely prevent you from driving any further, to avoid a condition, when ECMs would shut down while driving, which could be catastrophic. If you were driving, the car would slowly slow down to full stop, and then engaged a P gear and locked itself until battery voltage is restored.
And having the correct amp/CCA battery in the car makes a world of difference no matter what marque it is. Aftermarket batteries come close but not al was ays.....
I think you nailed it. So he does possess the knowledge to replace the alternator which will fix it.
I know some European cars are extremely picky on batteries. Not all cars like interstate or diehards.
I've driven a lot of older US cars, and nothing is fly-by-wire in them. You can still drive with no battery installed at all, you will just have no power steering, and no power brakes, but a sufficiently healthy adult can drive without both. It's strange to me that the gearbox would lock you out, just because you're out of power. Newer US cars probably have this same behavior, but I would for-sure hate it, since it means you'd have to tow your car home (when your car might be in the middle of a lane), instead of just limping it home. Would be nice to have a warning light on/near the shifter, instead of a lockout.
@@weeveferrelaine6973 Actually power brakes do not need electricity, but power steering and automatized mechanical gearboxes do. You can drive without a battery, but not without a working generator (alternator).
Great job Ray! I wish there were more mechanics like you Ray!👍👍
Maybe his last visit to the dealer made him cry after seeing the repair costs.- hehe -
You tried. You’re always honest and in this day and age, that’s hard to find. 👍
Simply put, the problem is that it's a Jaguar. The Jaguar assembly line should terminate with a car crusher, it would save everybody a lot of headaches lol
I've got a 2005 XJR that is an absolutely beautiful car and the quality and reliability has been top notch. On the other hand I was given a loaner 2017 Jag XE once that had less than 1K miles on it and it was a piece of shit
Hmmm. I know where you're coming from but I've only ever changed service items on mine. Beautiful drive, lovely V8 etc. Super reliable - and I've had it for years. My next car will be a Jaaaaag, too.
Edit - after 155,000 miles I had to change the rear calipers; they could [probably] have been fixed but I put new ones on.
@ThePatUltra Interesting. You're wrong on both fronts. I'm just a guy who works on cars for a living... calling it like I see it
From what I've seen of your videos, your knowledge is extraordinary so to say you don't know something ... is ... well ... saying something about the complexity of this problem.
As a customer I would appreciate an "I don't know" more than an extensive experiment that could f*** it up and cost me extra. Good on ya.
"A man's got to know his limitations." Poet and philosopher Clint Eastwood
I'm on my third Jag, the current one a '17 XE. I'd wager real money that an alternator replacement and a full charge on the correct battery would have sorted the whole thing. In my experience, Jags a) are very sensitive to low voltage and start to do some very interesting downstream things you would not expect if they don't have correct voltage, b) do not respond well to replacement parts like ABS modules unless you can program them to the car, and c) like any cat, they'll let you know quickly if they're not happy.
All that said, you absolutely made the right call on this one. Lot of ways this could have been interesting for sure.
Those symptoms/fualts were exactly what I had with 2010 XF a few months ago. The alternator had died and decided to take the battery out with it.
@@planetzogg1 yeah ive also worked on fancier and or more complicated vehicles, and the thing about them is they need literally 14.4v or they start freaking out, the tcm on that jag probably uses 3 or 4 volts on its own just to operate and im sure the lack of power is just killing that system. but being an armchair warrior without a business on the line, id say ray completely made the right decision here
@@ryangross5446 Oh he totally did make the right call there. Unloading the parts cannon on a Jag can be eyewatering in the extreme. I hope his customer gave him a lot of respect for that decision.
Yup. JLR products do not like low voltage at all, confuses the CAN bus and modules. If my rover did that, I'd put in a new 'nator for sure. I was cheering for Ray to figure it out, but better safe than sorry. Also I'd touch the battery cable ends together to reset any lingering data, and charge the battery fully before re-installing. Course I have ten years experience nursing the rover. Bad grounds can cause gremlins too.
@@rickgesell9468 man rovers are tricky business and it sounds like you know your stuff about them
You probably do have the skills but, it was definitely the right choice for the customer, you and the business. It should earn you points for right decision and knowing not to touch. It may well have been a magnetti marelli alternator or denso as lucas stopped being a thing several years ago
Lucas , the Prince of Darkness ! Memory flashes back to 1973 and a Triumph Tiger with electrical gremlins . I pushed that bike farther than I rode it !!! HAHAHA !!
Remember, a gentleman does not motor about after dark.
@@Posichronic ; Wasn't a problem with that bike . Turn on the headlight and in about 2 minutes you were walking ! HAHAHAHA !!
From the uk here. Looks like the typical jaguar - all models and ages- achilles heel of a cascade of faults caused by 1 or more of its earth straps corroding at the bolts or fraying away, thus causing an open circuit that drains the battery and screws with the electronics, even to the point of killing the electronics on the alternator.
That's why I read comments
As the old saying goes, You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run! I think you made a good move there letting the Jag-You-Are specialists take care of this issue. Seems like it would come back to haunt you in the end!
As a person in the automotive field myself, i greatly respect your diagnosis of "you would be better served by the local specialist".
A lot of times "The local specialist" doesn't know how to fix it correctly
@@zeke112964 Yeah, but this is a Jag. Dealerships live in fear of users randomly selected by the automaker for a satisfaction survey, especially rich owners that like to blow things out of proportion. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a luxury brand: Even Toyota will penalize a dealership for a bad review. I brought my car in for regular service about 7,000 miles after the warranty expired. The service advisor spotted a small amount of condensation in one of the headlights and replaced it under warranty, because I was still CLOSE enough to the warranty period that Toyota could still send me a survey.
As Dirty Harry once said "a man's got to know his limitations ". Great call and great video. Thanks for being a decent human and doing what's best for everyone, including yourself.
The Great Sage himself! (Although he was playing the UNO Reverse card by quoting the line the bad guy used on him earlier in the movie back to him. Although he used it at at the right time & place, & the BB didn't.)
Puussy.
"A man has got to NO! his inhibitions."
That’s a good call. Having the experience to know “hey I see these problems but I don’t know enough to know if they are symptoms or causes” is a sign of true wisdom. We all strive to be experts in our fields but knowing when something isn’t in our field is an equally valuable lesson. Thanks, Ray. Everyone has something to learn from you.
I'm 90% sure this is a bad alternator; it's a common problem with the Jag XF here in the UK.
I had a similar problem which produced a torrent of fault codes from every control module.
Once the alternator was replaced, all fault codes disappeared.
I can't stand European vehicles they are complicated for no reason
@@justinjones6810 Oh but there is a reason, a well planned reason. It is so you have to take it to the dealer and replace parts that are designed to fail.
@@justinjones6810 lol... you are just not used to it...
@@justinjones6810 Well in the case of Jags of this era, you can blame Ford for that.
@@justinjones6810 The Alternator is pretty standard for majority of vehicles, not entirely sure what the car being European has to do with anything. If an Alternator is unhappy in ANY vehicle, it is going to produce less than desired effects. I'm sure this Jag is complicated to a degree, but the Alternator definitely is not one of those things.
You're a skillfull mechanic. It's simply that cars are turning more into computers causing mechanics to spend much money to become qualified. You do great work.
cars are becoming more complicated so you better get more skills or get left behind lol
As a German auto owner I applaud your attitude and handling of this, any time I’ve need a tow from breaking down I’ve had to fight with my towing coverage to take to a repair shop specializing in European vehicles.
You clearly do not have AAA. For a few bucks more, AAA will tow me 100 miles wherever I say to go. Used it three times for towing so far.
@@marksd5650 so I’m paying for AAA premiere coverage with trailer and motorcycle coverage for nothing.
@@marksd5650 AAA's rules or benefits seem to vary by state. It's feasible that not every AAA member gets the same 100 mile towing allowance.
@@truckntech3347 TFC is right. I think it is the next step up from the standard AAA. The one time I needed it, the driver asked me where I wanted to go. I told him home. I fixed it myself.
Even as a European tech I hate Jags and land rovers , work on them only because my boss tells me to.
As an XF owner myself I’m intimately familiar with this problem. They’re a terribly temperamental and expensive machine but are beautiful and fun to drive when they’re actually in working order.
So what does it take to fix it?
@@MFSE7EN A sufficient and consistent electrical supply. It's absolutely the most important thing to sort out when you have communication errors throughout the system.
Most likely a charging fault and Ray knew it here but didn't want to find out it wasn't that after changing the alternator. Fair enough.
Kinda like anything with the word "Luxury" near it.
"They’re a terribly temperamental and expensive machine but are beautiful and fun to drive when they’re actually in working order."
Sounds like every high maintenance woman I have ever known.
Proper procedure: Pour gasoline into passenger compartment. Ignite. Wait until incineration complete. Call insurance company. Total loss. Buy vehicle with reasonable maintenance requirements.
Jags are great. When the moon aligns just right, for a couple of days each year, everything is perfect, life is good. The rest of the time is spent nursing it with electricity and spanners.
That is a really sick kitten... It's a shame that you can't follow the oncoming process in fixing the car just to get a hint of the main source of it's problems - Besides being very Bristish and plagued by the ghost of Lucas
Great decision Ray. Selfless. Btw: a regular viewer report: painters removed door sensors at my house, and when I reinstalled the screws I said “I’m going to do this the Ray-way and thread them by hand first”!
Way back in the day I was a young man learning on the job, We had a customer bring in a Jaguar xke carbureted V12 that "Didn't seem like it's running right." I did the basics first and decided it had carburetor problems. The thing was though I had never worked on those. I seem to remember they were Stromberg carburetors correct me if I'm wrong. Fortunately I had a buddy who knew Jags inside and out. He came by and overnight he taught me how to diagnose, repair, and synchronize those things. I had a customer for life after that and I gave my buddy his half of what I got paid for that job. I saw that Jag many times after that for many repairs. One thing I loved was test driving that Jag. Oh my god it was quick and super smooth. Manual gearbox, sweet ride. One and only Jag I ever worked on. Thanks for this video Ray brought back some good memories.
That’s awesome. Nice post. And cool to share half with your buddy
had a similar fault a few years back, put an alternator and a battery on and it was good to go, but i agree with your diagnosis you have to know when to say NO.
Next time, just remove the battery, fully charge it. The clean the terminals, check the earths and positive. Start it put into neutral first. If its in park. Rev it with the lights on until the top rev, once or twice, helps clear the flash ram. Then shut off, Start normally and then try all the gears.
That should save you some time. Hope this helps.
Also it should be at least 13.80 volts minimum or nothing will work properly as the wrong voltages affect the CPUs ability to rectify the issues due to faulty sensor information...
And yes clear fault codes..
Thank you for posting this video. I'm truly grateful for is as I was thinking of buying one of these in the next few weeks but after seeing this and knowing how good you are at fixing cars and stuff from previous videos I think I'm gonna pass on buying one now,the amount of codes that popped up looked like nightmare to try figure it out. You done the right thing passing it to the dealership. Did you ever get any news about it and what was causing the problem?
Scotty Kilmer gave you a thumb up for your decision.
Jaguars is half owned with China and India. They are bad vehicles. People in China were protesting how bad they are. You can die protesting in china.
Most shops would have charged an hour for a look-see. That was kind of you.
Class act as always. Good on ya! Smart enough to know when to pass, and kind enough to not charge. These behaviours will pay dividends for you.
Jaguar mechanic here...just a tip on replacing batteries on tata motors Jaguar and land rovers. Don't ever disconnect the car from battery voltage fully. When replacing the battery always have a second battery source hooked up elsewhere so the car does not fully go without any voltage. If you do you run the risk of bricking the car and causing a no crank and or door lock issue. The fix is to reprogram modules and depending on which software version security module has the car will need a new security module and a new set of keys .very expensive fix just for disconnectjng the battery. completely ridiculous but thought Id pass that info along .
I would’ve went for the charging system first. Check fuses, and see if you have voltage and grounds to proper pins on the pcm connector. I think your selling yourself short, and are capable of the repair. All you need is the charging system wiring diagram. I love your videos and really enjoy them. Please keep up the good work Sir.
Give me a good old fashioned car with a carburetor, points ignition system with the only actual electronic components in the entire car being the stereo system. They are so much easier to repair than any of the computerized ones, and if properly tuned are efficient and extremely reliable.
Amen. I'm done with ridiculous unnecessary electronics that can shut a car down for a speck of dust on a sensor. Bring back basic solid components, that are reliable and easily repaired.
@@mbd6054 and if they were to bring them back there wouldn’t be acres upon acres of brand new vehicles sitting in storage lots unable to be sold because they don’t have the chips needed to make them run. Also, a properly planned out and properly tuned carburetor and points ignition system will run just as if not more efficiently than a computer controlled system will. Caris should be getting way better gas mileage than they do, heck, a 1922 Chevrolet touring car got 22 mpg, a 1950 Studebaker Champion Starlight Coupe with overdrive got 31 mpg, 66 Pontiac Catalina station wagon with a 389 got 22 -24 mpg, 69 Buick Electra with a 430 got 25 mpg, a carbureted 90 Geo Metro with manual transmission got 52-56 mpg yet when they switched it to fuel injection it dropped down to 45-48 mpg at best
@@todddenio3200 Very interesting, Todd. I couldn't agree more. I don't need a car to be an entertainment centre, a fashion statement, or an accessory. More concentration on engineering, practicality and real purpose and function, would produce more efficiency. The over reliance on complicated electronics gives rise to huge waste when chips fail and cars with perfect bodies are crushed, because nobody knows how to repair them, or because repairs cost too much. There is nothing eco-friendly about the current situation. It is the epitome of waste.
@@mbd6054 you got that right. When parts such as electronics sensors, chips, modules, etc are discontinued and a car has one or more of them go bad there is no way to fix it unless good used parts are found - and how long will those last? Then when the car is crushed or shredded and melted down into new steel etc it will actually take more energy and cause more pollution to recycle it than an old precomputer car would consume in its lifetime. There is no reason why any internal combustion engine isn’t making at minimum 75 mpg with most being over 100 mpg but the oil industry doesn’t want that because they would not have as much profits so they work with the auto makers and the govt to keep gas mileage down and suppress anything that would lower the amount they sell and are willing to protect their profits at any cost and if they view someone or something as a threat to their profitability they will remove that threat one way or another
@@todddenio3200 Absolutely true. We all know pollution is a serious issue, but the wrong path is being followed to deal with it, due to vested interests. Producing less durable, less reliable vehicles will not solve the environmental problem, but it will keep the auto dealers happy.
You are a top notch auto-mechanic! It takes courage & integrity to make the decision to decline this job. You can't ask for a better mechanic, a mechanic who knows their limits. We need more mechanics like you. I am impressed!
Don't blame you, this car has more electronic gadgets than a James Bond car, let the dealer try and figure it out. They probably know that the Jag dealer will rape them on labor and wanted an independent shop to try and fix it.
Yeah, i'm sure they knew what was coming... You don't expect cheap repairs when you buy "exotic" cars. (I know it's not exotic, but it's certainly not a honda).
You have my respect sir. You showed great wisdom in seeing the bigger picture, not only for the technicians down the road but by your empathy for the owner in not billing them.
"It's the right thing to do"
Bravo !
Mom had a Mercedes, it was a very nice car. I was able to drive it a few times. But I would never want to own one. To expensive to fix, and the cars are designed to need a dealership. My dad was able to fix a few things on it, but still.
Hell no to a Mercedes.
Hell no to a Jaguar.
I just watched an old episode of Married with children, and Jefferson was talking to Al about how nice his BMWs is. Al asked where it was at and he told him it's been at the shop for 3 weeks. The shop would send them pictures of it up on the rack. Lol.
I have a jag. From the number of codes, I would say someone tried to jump it and cooked much of the computer system. On a jag, it is important to be extremely careful when jumping the car. Always hook the positive cables up first, then the negative, according to my long time jag tech. It seems that creating a spark when hooking up the positive last is enough to fry the system. Great video!!
To be honest, Ray was jumping the car incorrectly. The negative cable should have went to the body of the car and not the car’s battery. This puts the car’s fuse(s) in the path for safety.
@@kevingray8616 eh it's one of those things the situation where that would make a difference is a bad situation to be in period.
@@kevingray8616 No it doesn’t. The car sees no difference between the jump pack and the starting battery. 12v is 12v is 12v.
@@forrest225 I'm not talking about the voltage. I'm talking about in the event of a mishap, the fuse in the dead car will blow, rather than risking the potential of a battery explosion or the like.
@@kevingray8616 there is no fuse between the negative terminal on the battery and the chassis. It's just a straight like 50cm long cable from the terminal to the chassis
People with Jags should just go to the dealership
lmao never seen a car put itself into park
@@module79l28 lol yea guess a jag is a bit worse than BMW
this is why you dont drive automatics. when you have a manual it wont just "throw itself" into any gear but whatever you put it into.
Unfortunately, the market doesn't agree with you. Manuals are less than 2.5% of the market. I always describe mine as a millenial anti-theft device.....
you mean electronic shifter autos. older autos are controlled by shifter linkage like mine. stays in drive whether it likes it or not.
LOVE MY STICK SHIFT, and may be able to push start or coast down hill. Wish a few more people did.
@@ckm-mkc According to sales figures releases about 80% of vehicles sold in Europe and the UK are manuals, only 20% automatic. Here in Australia our figures are very similar to the US, only 3% manual. I was regularly in Europe over the years (until Covid) and it was something I always picked up on, the majority of cars were manuals. The price is the main reason, big difference between manual and auto. Our son lives in Dublin and he just bought a manual Dacia Sandero. An auto would have been an extra 2000 Euros and he prefers manual anyway (Dacia's are very popular in Ireland and the UK, they're coming here to Australia next year).
Even an auto shouldn't throw itself into any gear you don't want it in. Electronic Gearboxes are one of the worst ideas ever for a car, I kept thinking what if it threw itself into park driving down the road. I'd imagine a transmission for one of those Jags probably costs more then some people make in 2 months.
I'd say as a 40+ yr mechanic you made the right call it probably is an alternative or something else controlling the alt but it's stupid to start guessing with a car so technically advanced Ray I applaud you for your actions we had a small auto business for 20+ yrs and turned away very little but we also had a few jobs we wished we had turned away lol for we lost $ several times to make the customer happy 😁 which gave us business beyond our needs it sounds like bragging but not really God blessed us and ppl knew they could trust us there was very very few ppl who had anything bad to say about our shop and God knows we tried God bless you and all here amen
Their forte? No, that's over at the Kia dealership
You did do the right thing, refreshing to see. I've have several mechanics throw parts at my vehicles. I'm not made of money, usually fix all the small stuff myself.
Learned something new today: negativ goes first in the US! In Germany we connect the +-cable first to avoid any contact of PLUS with Ground (any metal of the body/engine).
Same in UK as sensible practice
I'm not sure why he did that, I was taught + first and then - and finish - at the engine boost vehicle to avoid sparks near hydrogen. This was opposite to what I was taught on -earth.
Most comments here commend you on walking away and being honest about it.
While I completely agreed, the main point in all this is that the level of complexity in almost all vehicles is getting beyond ridiculous.
When only dealer techs (and sometimes not even they) are the only option, things are simply out of hand.
Personally I’d love to purchase a vehicle that has minimal bells and whistles that I can service myself.
Many will say those days are long gone but should they be?
new fully charged battery required, or alternator will not "switch on " all the rest is down to low pixie count !
thats retarded........ seriously? not even the italians do that
@@johndonovan7018 they're all at it now, it allows them to reduce alternator "work "to absolute minimum , to save the planet !! ?
You sound like the kind of guy that spends hours on conspiracy forums
@@ozzman2685 wow. well glad to say my buckets still charge like normal cars do. good chevy buckets
A part of me at first was at least do the alternator, that would at least save them some money from what the dealer charges. But your right on a car like that, it could be the ECU not commanding it to even turn on. Not charging the customer was the right thing to do bc they will at the minimum always trust the shop for other things like brakes, oil change and they probably have another vehicle they’d bring in. So no lost customer, if anything they may even recommend others to “hey, I know a trustworthy shop” which is hard to find now days
IMHO it's the alternator. The second time we could see the RPM indicator and it was rock solid where it was as long as the Chevy was connected to it with that big old alternator. That alternator can probably do 140-180 amps. Looks like nice arc welding cables!
@@robertthomas5906 The problem is that modern alternators don't just charge based on the voltage _it_ detects now. At the very least, the ECU does the detecting & commands how much charge the alternator makes. (Assuming that Jag don't have another module doing the dectecting & feeding that to the ECU...) So yes, it _could_ be the alternator, but it could be an ECU, or something else entirely causing the ECU to give a bad output to the alternator.
Once that primary failure is found & fixed, most if not all of the other faults will also go.
@@NemoConsequentae Could be a bad ground, or a bad wire ;)
@@christophervanzetta This might cause similar problems, which is why it seemed best to pass it on to those who *should* know better.
@@christophervanzetta I've seen people who found that after weeks of troubleshooting a weird electrical problem. They finally tracked it down to a loose earth under the dash...
Or as simple as a loose terminal from the alternator to battery.
I work daily repairing complex electronics and sometimes find myself on a similar position. The key is to know when to admit defeat and move on. You did it wonderfully, kudos!
Now that's luxury lol and harbor freight jump box! It's actually really cool that bigclive is commenting on this vid
I usually like all of your videos, but your comment “If you enjoyed watching me not fix this car...” deserved a like and comment. Also the bit about the “real jump-box” was priceless! Keep up the gear content 👌🏻
This is why I like my 80's Scottsdale. Alternator not charging check regulator and if that's good replace and done. Love easy
Why I love my 80s Toyota pickup, mostly just an engine ... Battery dies... Push start... All good 😁
All this electronic stuff is just a recipe for disaster... only thing fancy in my truck is the radio
@@lexannaamnell6593 even my radio isn't fancy i got am fm chose one not even a tape deck
It’s probably a bad alternator. Doesn’t seem like the battery is charging.
If the ecu (engine control unit) of this vehicle is malfunctioning, it would also not charge the battery even if the engine is running. He did say that at 15:14 and called it ecm (engine control module) which is the same thing.
Yeah, signs point to an alternator. Could try giving it alternator voltage from another vehicle, clear the codes, restart with the proper voltage and see what the computer says. can also probe to see if the alternator is being commanded to provide current.