Mud Test: CETME-L
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2017
- The CETME-L is a maligned Spanish military rifle that is a very close cousin to the HK33. The CETME firm decided to design and build their own roller delayed 5.56 rifle to replace the legacy CETME-C that was chambered in 308.
The CETME-L did not last long in Spanish service due to its many foibles and strange design choices. That said, we tested a Century Arms C308 G3/CETME variant in one of our mud tests and it performed above average.
How well will the CETME-L do?
Let's find out!
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Well, the "success" of the CETME -L on Spanish armed forces was the result of several circumstances.
1. The first "pre-series" CETME-L (which is NOWDAYS on service with the Guardia Civil) it was a very good rifle with a high fiability response; but when government decide to buy in a massive number for all military branches, gov decided that CETME price is higher than their possibilities so they ask to CETME if they can make it cheaper than original price.
The result of that agreement is that the CETME-L was a poor quality materials for a heavy duty service rifle; especially SOF.
2. The ammo that Spanish military uses is not the best at those days for that rifle. Actually the 5,56mm ammo that "SANTA BARBARA ,FABRICA DE PALENCIA" made is not the perfect for that weapon,and every two or three rounds, it had and interruption . I remember to shoot with other ammo brands and is just another world; no more interruptions at all.
3. Somebody on the high-level of the gov/MoD, have a HUGE interest in cancel and close the CETME manufacters, so the best thing is to have a bad story about that rifle, and increase the legend; instead of perform, make it better and study which troubles it has... they just cancel everything and decided to buy German HK-36.
If other countries do the same as Spain did with CETME-L( which is have"NO PATIENCE") , there will be no: FAMAS, SA-80, M-16, and so on...
Best regards from a Spanish Weapons lover.
Sorry for my English!!
I'm spanish and I know a little bit of the Cetme story, the fact is, that when started the production of the CETME L, the rifle was an excellent rifle, some experts said that it was the best rifle in the NATO countries, but, the company wanted to reduce costs, so they used cheaper materials and because of that, the best rifle in the entire NATO was transformed into an unreliable piece of cheap metal
NaTo ShOuLd HaVe UsEd Ak!
This is easily the most impressive mud test yet. Talk about exceeding expectations.
If Spain gave a damn about QA they would have had a very good rifle.
I am spanish and I have to disagree, the spanish word to say tank is "tanque", maybe some spanish soldiers nicknamed their rifles "tanque". In any case the complaints might be innapropriate for this gun.
We were all pleasantly surprised here. They're not bad rifles at all.
JNC5297 Perdón, pero me parece que él estaba tratando de hacer un chiste a la americana, saludos.
HotQgav I didn't get that impresion at all.
I bought the newly made MarColMar CETME L, and it’s a joy to shoot. The all new springs, etc make the design realize it’s true potential 😎
If built with quality parts, the CETME L may easily be one of the best rifles in the world
Deberían mejorarlo y volver a ser el fusil de asalto en España.
stg-44 mud test
We don't have one. ~Karl
InRangeTV :*
:(
Yep. ~Karl
That one will hurt to see :(
It's a G3 system with AR-15 tolerances. It's not the best gun in the world, but mud is not gonna be the main problem. Also, this is why the AR-15 design have that weird charging handle, which seals its own gap when closed.
Pólvora Del Rey I always thought that was because the AR had a carry handle in the first prototypes (with a famas-style charging handle in it), lost that, got the charging rejiggered in a least-effort kind of way, and then got the carry handle back.
Pólvora Del Rey Watch their video with one of the main AR 15 designers. Because the gas tube was moved to the top of the bolt to better survive drop testing it made sense to move the charging handle with it.
¿Un G3?, en todo caso un CETME, ¿no te parece?.
The CETME L (and AMELI) was going to be a great weapon, but its main problem was the materials which it was constructed with. The politicians, once again, seeking to reduce costs, motivated the construction of the L family with cheaper materials.
In any case, believe me when I tell you that you are very lucky enjoying shooting a CETME L, in Spain you can only buy deactivated units, with three holes in the barrel.
Best regards from Spain.
"Si no lo veo, no lo creo" is Spanish for "I had to see this with my own eyes". Wow. I can't wrap my head around what I just witnessed.
I've become quite smitten with the CETME-L throughout this inrange saga. I really like the looks of it and it doesn't seem that bad of a rifle
It isn't! You should build one :)
Hill & Mac Gunworks I would if I could, I'm an Australian stuck in the land down under with no opportunities to move to a country where I'm treated like the adult I am. SAVE ME HMG!
Cetme is the best rifle so far..low recoil, reliable
El mejor rifle de asalto del mundo para las mejores fuerzas de seguridad del mundo: La Guardia Civil. Y para la mejor unidad militar del mundo: La Legión Española 💪🏻💚🇪🇸 poderío español!!!
one of the reason im quite in favour of roller delayed blowback, it might be violent, but that violence makes it just a tad more reliable in adverse conditions.
Color me completely surprised. You guys rock. Keep up the awesome show.
I really like your mud tests in any case, but this one was particularly satisfying. I think it's not just that the CETME L has a poor reputation (mierda escondida) and so I'm rooting for the underdog, but also because you built that rifle (a series of videos I found fascinating). Keep up the great work fellas.
I think you are underestimating the effectiveness of the paint job.
You can even see mud flying around inside the action in the slow motion. Pretty impressive.
Didn't expect that for sure!
Great video guys. That was a surprising result
Grabbing a CETME L today built by MarColMar, looking forward to it!
The reason for the bad quality reputation is for two things:
-The spanish goverment buy weapons for 2 corps:
Army Corps and Police Corps (Guardia Civil is something like military force with police functions).
The general and most selled is the army one,of course the number is large cause the police corps only use automatic weapons in few cases with this caliber.
The army units had not good parts and the transition for the troops are not great because the modern weapons with polymers and plastic are not great for the type of abuse that passed,at that time the masculine population must do the military service at least 9 month and a lot of the boys use the rifle like a baseball bat or let fall from a great high etc...Ther old Cetme the C, is bigger and with more weight but men,you can use it like a shit and ever shoot.
The Police Corps use the same rifle but with the good parts,and is mostly used by professionals.You never going to listen a complain about the weapon from a police or guardia civil.
Two different budgets for the same weapon,and the result is totally opposite.
PD:Sry for my english
Delayed roller for the win!
Awesome quality control by the builder(s). ; )
So Suprised ! I have my cetme l kit ready. just waiting for someone to again make reciever and barrels. Watched yall build your rifles a hundred times so far.
WE ARE YOUR ANSWER! We have those! shoot us an email info@hmgunworks.com
Pretty crazy results!
Great video. I'm goad to see that this rifle was able to pass the test. Good mags along with the minor mods that HMG added seems to have cured the problems. None of the other online videos showed jams. I have one of the 100 HMG CETME-L's but it's too pretty to shoot. Maybe one of these days.
Wow… amazing test! 2 thumbs up!
Honestly, Karl, watching the footage again, I'm pretty sure you could have got that round chambered on the first try if you'd kept it in your shoulder. Amazing performance from an obscure home-build. Love the channel guys! Keep it up!
Maybe. Hard to say. ~Karl
Very good Carl!!
great work with building this
Love watching the mud slide down the magazine
Really love your feedback, it's rear.
Delayed blowback's generally high extraction pressure also helped here by blowing debris away from the ejection port while "unlocking." This is really similar to the puff of gas that comes out of the AR-15's carrier every time it cycles.
Amazing!!!Truly outstanding!!!!
And you, Karl, for hitting stuff!
If I would ever need a gun instructor or builder, I'd call on you,or Ian, depending on AK VS AR and Ian for history and dexterity. You guys are a made team:)
Gonna need one. Time now
You guys are awesome
I can't believe it. When I was in the army (1989), I use some brand new units (even I unbox all the company units), and remember that all the units gave a lot of problems, but the Cetme C was very reliable. If you have the opportunity to shot a Star Z70B submachine gun, 9 mm, it has a lot of fun.
Most initial problems were caused by the ammo and the junk magazines. A battered GI discarded mag with italian ammo worked flawlessly.
After 1995 (give or take a year), quality control disappears in newly made rifles ("cutting expenses" was called). Soft and deformable firing pins, very weak springs... Also, by then, the earlier correctly made had already a few years of abuse (supongo que recuerdas como era la mili), and rarely were parts ever replaced.
The curious thing, is LCs were much better, probably because of different main spring and lighter bolt.
nice build
CETME best rifle confirmed
CETME model L cool!
Good stuff, Karl seemed slightly reluctant to mud up his own handy work
De todas formas muchas gracias por la prueba.
Now ya'll have to do a hk93/hk33 mud test!!
Wow that did better then I expected it to.
Impressive
Clearly it's the 8mm label case that made this possible. haha. Great vid, keep up the good work.
And here in Spain we cant use them cause 556 is banned 😑
That's awesome!
wow. Legend says there was a gunsmith in Arizona that built the most resilent, never stopping guns one could dream of.. and some even say his secret was a brass case..
🙌 delayed roller action 🙌
Thoroughly surprised/satisfied
fantastic.
Karsada Arms, for all your esoteric gun needs!
The only thing you guys haven't muddied up yet is my heart.
nice gun!
For my opinion, this G3 and Cetme guns ( if they are well built) are very very nice guns. I can only speak for myself but i like them more than the AR(nothing bad about them, its only my own feeling) or the AK's.
I started to know them during my german army time (30years ago) and i love them to shoot until today(even if i now have also an hk556a1 and and AR15).
Before someone start to say any i don't want to make AR or AK' bad. Thats for me a matter of personel feeling.
I know you've already done an AR-15 as well as an M-16 but is there any chance you guys'll be doing a piston driven AR-15 kinda like the one offered by Primary Weapons? I have a sneaking suspicion it wont do quite as well as the direct impingement AR due to the lack of gasses expelling out the ejection port.
My first rifle 👍😍
impressive
The only realistic explanation to this extraordinary reliability: you modified the genetic code of the gun by adding 8 mm Lebel DNA of WWI into it. As a result the "mud resistance" gene inherited from the 8 mm Lebel hack you did, modified it's characteristics!
Tucker Dale Damn commies ;(
hogshead hogs you don't know anything, cetme was a great gun. i was in the spanish army and I never hear that, in spain cetme always works well.
My primary rifle in my military service
As other people have said: There are TWO kinds of CETME L: the quality series, still in use by the Guardia Civil (like State Troopers in the USA) and the cheap, low quality given to the, then, Land Army made up by conscripts in the 80's. When the Spanish Armies moved from conscription to professional soldiers in the 90's, they replaced the low quality bach CETME L with the G-36.
Then, there is the CETME C, with is the assault rifle God Father would had designed for Jesus, blessed by the Virgin Mary.
I'm more into C&R shotguns and WW1 and WW2 guns, but after watchi g a few videis about the cetme C and L rifles, I'm looking to buy both.
Cetme straight here. Is it a good rifle?
I see what you did there. :P
It's called the CETME "L" I think that tells you everything you need to know.
That's almost as good as Ian's "Czechnology".
From what I gather its a good idea poorly executed. So you would be much better off buying a HK33, wich is the rifle Spain should have started out With.
So in short, no it isnt.
It's funny, cause the HK33 comes from the g3, who at the same time comes from the CETME. CETME was originally a very good design, and got a bad reputation on later versions due to use of bad materials to lower costs. But AFAIK, the wooden CETME's were very good.
And nobody can complain about a missing rear sight.
Awesome video, you should do the Uzi or Galil in the future.
Mind blown..
HOLY FUCK!!! I never thought that this gun would do so well.
Thanks for having tested the gun!
Grammar nazi: "And et cætera" is uncorrect because "et" already means "and"... (et cætera = and the rest)
Make one wonder if it wouldn't have been cheaper for Spain to make the quality control better, than to ditch the projekt.
We have to buy german guns in order to make them happy so they don't kick us out of the EU.
bandholm Totally agree with both. Even as of today we could still use the CETME platform just by modernizing it a bit (it would be a huge step for the Spanish arms industry, which has been kinda decaying since the adoption of the G-36E :/). Same goes for the STAR Z-84, the CETME Ameli (specially the Ameli!), the Astra A-100/Llama 82...
EU is like a violent Pimp; luring "you" in with promises of a better future and money.... but the moment you country realises it's mistake - SLAP! "Obey, because you are my bitch now."
Pólvora Del Rey no, its more that Germans make and sell guns that actually work at point of sale.
In that case you should see Yes minister on the EU ;) Now that is a description :P
Curiosity begs the question: will Ian's CETME-L do as well in the mud test? I'm wondering if those small different challenges you each experienced during assembly would have a bearing on the mud test results.
If you can get one , try the C93 HK in 5.56. I think Classic Firearms or Budsgunshop might still have them.
Color me impressed. Is there a possibility that the 8mm lebel case that you used to increase spring pressure was a factor in the test? If you did not have the case, would it run as reliable? Curious, really. Impressed, though. Great vid
If I understand, the 8mm case was required to make the gun function with any reliability whatsoever. The springs in these guns were evidently of amazingly poor quality.
Have fun cleaning that. It's hard enough to do when it's just carbon you're worrying about xD
It wasn't all that fun. ~Karl
How about a mud test of some military spec shotguns?
would love to see a SCAR next
I was an officer in the Spanish Navy Infantry and "suffered" cetmet L for many years. However, most of the problems were not due to their design, even the poor manufacturing materials, but four factors. 1º Intensive use by recruits, who every day had to disassemble and clean the rifle as part of their training. 2º Continued mistreatment, since the technique of entry into position was based on the use of the rifle as support, something that is not done with the G-36 nor suppose any other weak 5.56mm rifle. 3º The limited stock of magazines and their Poor quality, which made them deform and make feeding the weapon difficult. 4º the ammunition used was extremely dirty, in fact it was prohibited for use with the G36. This left powder residue in the magazines
that made extraction difficult until interrupted, sometimes with very few shots. Only with compatible M16 chargers and NATO-approved ammunition would 99% disruption have been reduced. Otherwise it was a delicious and precise weapon
Have you done G36 that replaced it?
And the gun-smock matching camo was nice.
I would also like to see a sand test or something similar
yall should see how well older firearms last, like SAA's or 73's or even 94's
Is a Schmidt Rubin mud test possible? Would be awesome to see how well that works!
I think I can probably speak as to the G3/Cetme charging handle.
Last year I was attacked by a bull while placing a target to test out my new C-308. I was carrying the rifle with me because I had not yet decided where to shoot from. It was chambered with the safety on. In the process of pushing me around on the dirt, he bent the charging handle tube of my rifle. After breaking my nose, 3 ribs and a spinal compression fracture, he ran off leaving me to collect my hat and rifle and failing to find my glasses. I started the 1/4 mile walk back to the house. Twice, on the way, he came at me again and I fired at him from the hip wounding him fatally the second time. When I got back to the house, I ejected the magazine and , with difficulty, ejected the round from the chamber. I found that the charging handle had been forced up bending the tube where it came out. The fact that I already had a round chambered had saved my life. At the ER, they said if he had hit me one more time on the wrong way I would have been paralyzed from the neck down.
btw thx for your feedback about the clothes pegs on the "thing". I don't really understand the principle other than dry wood drawing away moisture. But in the heat you are driving in that must be wrong.
Can you tell me the how it works?
I wish you guys were remotely close to me. I would love to donate some of my firearms to the cause.
You must the lucky owner of one from the first series. As a former Spanish soldier I know you don't need any mud to jam that piece of s...t. Only the Cetme C 7,62x51 was reliable.
supposedly replacing the spanish produced springs fixes 99% of issues, which is what Karl did with this one.
Hammer spring was the most usual cause of failure in very used rifles, followed by the main spring. Policy of armories was not to change any part unless they broke, and "springs never break".
But besides springs, our magazines were junk, and ammo was so bad NATO forbid its use in any gas operated rifle in 1994.
Put all of that together...
Please do a mud test on a SIG550-SIG556 any of them will do.
By the way is very guns of the same model actually the same when come to terms of mud resistance? Of course, they have to conform to a standard when controlling size deviation of their parts, but some guns might have a loose bolt carrier when compared to other guns in the same model, just like some Drum MAG of PPSH-41 might or might not be working for different PPSH-41. Does those deviations matter in terms of concealing mud from its action?
Now you must to do a G36 mud test
Just bought one, think I will like it a lot. I figured out to use P-mags with this rifle. Are you in AZ?
Only one hiccup, not bad. I think the only gripe the trolls will have is it's not an "original" and it was "modified" to work better than the original. Everyone knows that that 8mm Lebel casings are a big time cheat.
I fixed my car with an 8mm Lebel case. They're like duct tape! ~Karl
Mi españita!!!
my dad test the L and C in the military service , he preffer the C because is a better made gun who resist more abuse but he never got any big trouble with the L , he's complains are more about the way they made it cheaper and less strong
I'm really curious how one of my Type 97's would do. It's pretty closed off, and ejects pretty hard. Think it would be decent.
hjorturerlend Chinese bullpup lol.
I would love for them to do a stoner 63, but this might be fairly close. I think the bolt is different.
Nice build. Maybe it has to do more with the round then the weapon.
Yeah, it only passed because of that label case. ;)
I'm pleasantly surprised. The Tavor has a very open design up by the gas block and charging handle, but has a wipe to separate that from the reasonably well sealed action. It makes me curious as to how it would do.
Did you do a build video for the CETME-L ? I would like to see something like that.
We did 11 of them, actually: th-cam.com/play/PLj9u4Ts2NpEs4M6si6_1bh6dgRIX8n8oP.html
~Karl
Thank you, you guys are the best.