Repertoire: The BEST and WORST Bruckner Symphony Cycles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2021
- I know I said I'd never do a talk about Bruckner boxes, but you asked for it, so here they are, some two dozen of them. The situation with Bruckner is a mess, because not only have the same conductors done multiple cycles of the symphonies, you also have to deal with their various versions--which means that theoretically equivalent cycles may not even contain the same works. That's beyond annoying. So I offer this talk as a guide through the Brucknerian wilderness, confident in the knowledge that there are a few consistently fabulous sets out there that you can buy with complete confidence.
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I don’t remember having watched for 48 minutes anything on TH-cam, before this video. It’s as entertaining as it is informative and held me the entire time. Thank you!
This is the best kind of snob talk. Just discovered this channel. What a treat!
Hurwitz loves second-rated players like Tamas Vasary Zimerman Uchida Serkin Berezhovsky Emmaul Ax Thibaudet Peter Donohoe and so on! Hurwitz hates the Best like Richter Pollini ABM Cliburn Solomon Cutner Grigory Sokolov Emil Gilels Radu Lupu Wilhelm Kempff!!
I've been finding my way into classical music for the last few years, and although I'd never heard of him, I saw Skrowaczewski conducting the LPO with Bruckner's 5th at the Royal Festival Hall a few years ago. He was already 92 years old and tottered onstage looking so frail and grey, as if someone had fashioned him out of pipe cleaners and hung a tailcoat on him. He pulled himself up onto the platform and summoned up the most incredible and beautiful storm of music, like a wizard summoning the elements. I'd been listening to the 5th in preparation, but couldn't get into it, until that night, when it all made sense.
Yes, Bruckner is always great if you're near death. No energetic beat patterns.
That was a wonderful concert at the RFH. Went to it after having heard Skrowaczewski rehearsing, and then conducting, the 8th at St Florian with the Orchester Linz back in the summer of, I think, 2015 and then keeping an eye out in case he came to London. I had made a sort of pilgrimage to SF after having been arm-wrestled by someone a year or two prior to that into re-listening to Bruckner. That was after having signally failed to appreciate Bruckner's music throughout my 20s, 30s and 40s but then, after that exchange and listening again, becoming transfixed by it. Now the reverse problem (if such it is) in my subsequent two decades of listening to Bruckner more frequently than all other composers and of a tendency to add to the shelf, or to stream, rather too many performances of his works (and their variations). DH's splendid videos to some extent help keep that tendency in check. However, they also encourage it. Two more individual performances added to the shelf after watching this one ....
I'm enjoying every minute of this (and taking notes as I listen).
Karajan's recordings of the 7th and 8th Symphonies with the VPO are masterpieces. The 7th is my favorite one from Bruckner.
I just found you last week and began pouring through your videos. Informative, entertaining, and unaplogetic about your opinion. I love it. Just purchased a one year insider membership. Looking forward to the Ozawa retrospective video!
Welcome aboard!
“Bruckner was born at age 50” made me spit out my coffee. Hahahaha!!!
11:10
30:08 made me laugh
David, David you have bettered your best. Somehow, I think Bruckner winds you up. This was such a wonderful talk. One that will stand the test of time as THE authoritative talk on cycles…having said that I wish you had mentioned where you stand with some other of my favourites- Gielen, Rosbaud which is just lacking the first and the mixed cycle with the Jochum brothers. Also some of the more recent cycles with Paternostro and Simone Young. And possibly the worst small scale cycle - Venzago. That may be part of a follow up talk perhaps along with others that may crop up. A revised edition…thank you again. You have lit up most of my weeks during such ‘complicated times’
I am working my way through the Gielen survey right now and am fairly impressed. The recently released Rosbaud semi-cycle is outstanding
I heard Gielen do Bruckner 5 live in Cincinnati in the early 1980s. It was electrifying.
"The Jochum brothers???" Actually, I was surprised that DH seems to have omitted any mention of the other Jochum, whose job in the Third Reich was to manage a sort of musical shrine devoted to the Fürher's favorite composer (AB, for those who didn't know). Eugen's brother was a scholar and a fine conductor who so far as I know conducted no other music ever! If I'm not mistaken, Eugen also got along very well with the Third Reich, ideologically as well as musically. I heard him conduct Bruckner's Fifth in Carnegie Hall in 1969, very impressive.
Agree on the best video sentiment. I just returned to this. What a talk! I think I’m gonna go on a bruckner kick now. :)
@@vanhowell3011 3 Brüder, davon 2 Dirigenten.
Karajan got me into Bruckner, with the 1966 DG recording of the Ninth...a hell of an earth-shaking performance
…and terrifying.
@@robnmatheson Yes! Coda of the First movement!
Karajan's 4th and 7th on EMI w Berlin in Kingsway Hall are what really jump started me into Bruckner. The sound of the hall acoustic and reverberation on those recordings is magnificent. I have all of Karajan's cycles but I love those early EMIs and the best 7th, 8th, and 9ths he did were his last DG recordings with Vienna imo.
That recording stands the test of time, The same recording also got me into Bruckner bigtime. I wonder how many others were influenced.
Karajan's 4 and 7 with the Berlin Philharmonic were recorded in the Jesus Christus Church in Berlin. Kingsway Hall was in London England.
Great video for opinions and good humor. Celi' s Bruckner is my desert island music box (together with Solti' s Ring).
The Jochum Dresden set was my first foray into Bruckner. Got the set on Brilliant Classics back in 2006 for cheap, and it's one of my favourite box sets. Really timeless stuff.
I can do better than that. When in college, I decided to buy one set….and I opted for the Jochum/Dresden on EMI LPs. Yes, our Houston record shop had the EMI issue. It’s still my overall favorite.
Thank you very much for a new wonderful video. When you mentioned the relation between Jochum and the Bruckner 8, I recalled that I love his version with the Hamburg Orchestra, from the end of the 1940's, in mono (DGG). I agree that both late recordings are not as good as the Hamburg version. Every morning, before working, the first thing I do is to search for your videos. They are inspiring.
Thank you!
Your Bruckner reviews are something special. Please, keep them going, David!
That Barenboim 4th with the CSO is fantastic. The Scherzo blows the doors off!
Was my intro to Bruckner some 45 years ago.
The Jochum/ BPO scherzo is even more explosive. No other performance ( though the Barenboim is close) comes anywhere near it. The brass was astounding in the late 60s. If you don't know the performance- try it- loud- through headphones!
Thoroughly entertaining, David.
I was waiting for this! Thank you, sir!
Outstanding reviews as usual, incisive, subtle, and of course not without passion!
Oh, and "spiritual" is whenever someone or something makes you aware of an essential, profound part of yourself which you never knew beforehand.
I had the pleasure to hear Janowski conducting the 8th symphony live in Dresden (Germany). Many conductors rush the 4th movement horribly, even though Bruckner says "nicht schnell [not fast]". Janowski has a great sense of tempo in the 8th. Absolutely love it.
Superb review. Love your enthusiasm.
How fortunate to have Skrowaczewski's 90th birthday box from OEHMS, containing all the Bruckner symphonies you were raving about! His conducting elivits mystery and pacing, as contrasted to Chailly's blaring intensity. I came to Bruckner i the late 1960s through recordings by Szell (No. Three)) and Carl Schuricht's Third and Ninth. Also wonderful stuff. Surely appreciate your insightful coherence.
I have the Jochum. And a few individual performances. It seems to meet all my Bruckner needs!
Yes !! I've got Tintner in 1,2 ,3 Wand with the Berlin Phil in 4,5and 9 and Karajan in 7 and 8 with the Vienna Phil...not a bore among them !! Thanks for another great video.!!
Great, great review. I have loved the 28-CD Skrowaczewski box set that includes the Bruckner cycle that you mentioned here. He is consistently brilliant across all the basic repertoire as well as Bruckner. Then why isn't he as much recognized as other well-known names? Maybe it's because his name is too difficult... And I would like you to do a video on Otmar Suitner if you had any chance. I highly regard his Bruckner's - 4,7,8 in particular - as well as works by other composers, but few people seem to pay attention to him. I hope to see more musicians get the recognition that they deserve. Thank you again.
Great great video I specially admire the Dresden Jochum 7 thanks David
Interesting that you talk about Jochum not getting the 8th, because I bought his 8th and 9th after reading a Grammophone review and those recordings (Dresden, EMI) got me into the world of Bruckner. I love Jochum’s 8th. Glad you mention Barenboim’s cycle with Chicago, I think is very good and very well recorded.
Thanks for your clear words about Thielemann!!!
Thanks, Dave, this was well worth the wait. I've owned or heard every one of your top recommendations and fully agree that Skrowaczewski covers all the bases better than anyone. I do believe, however, that this set has now been discontinued.!?! Yes, the Bruckner situation is a mess. . .
How happy I am to hear you praise the Barenboim/Chicago Sym/Bruckner set. I have been thrilled with that set since it came out on Lps, and of course the formidable Chicago brass. I wouldn't be without it, along with certain Klemperer recordings.
This is one of your best overviews EVER!
Oh well this is a fun follow-up! I like the multi-conductor BR-Klassik box, I just like the way that orchestra sounds. Jansons in 3, 4, 7 and 8 and Haitink in 5 and 6, I think more interesting than the vanity project from the Berlin Philharmoniker.
Well, I had a Bruckner 5th recording wearing out, and for the cost of replacing it I could get the whole set by Wand. Spectacular! As a particular bonus I found very satisfying recordings of Bruckner's #1, #2, and #3.
Heard Skrowaczewski do 8th with St Louis. He made them play like Angels. Yes, all need to hear his Bruckner!
I love your videos, but combining informative critiques with interesting and passionate rants remain awesome. “Ahhh …, Bavaria” as Radar might have said.
Judging by Skrowaczewski's 5th the cycle as a whole must indeed be absolutely terrific. His pacing in the 5th is fast and immaculate with fresh, lively rhythmic vitality. The pauses are as electric as anything else while the structural awareness of the whole is superb.
Skrowaczewski's road to Brukner was an interesting one...
In the course of an interview for The Polish Radio, Skrowaczewski was asked about the beginning of his adventure with Bruckner's music. Responding, Skrowaczewski admitted that he had no interest in Bruckner, and in fact knew almost nothing about him. However, one day, while walking down the street, he heard an unknown to him music through an ajar window that absorbed him in an instant. And it was Bruckner.
Hi David, I am really greateful to you because I would never have tried to listen to Bruckner cycle by Barenboim. And it IS AMAZING !!! thanks so much for sharing this. I have also discovered Beethoven cycle by Barenboim with the Staatskapelle Berlin thanks to you. Again I was so surprised. A BIG THANK YOU
My pleasure!
Dave, always enjoy your talks. Both insightful, and often very funny. Thank you, you’re the best!
I appreciate that!
What an extremely valuable video for collectors! Navigating Bruckner Land is really confusing without a map! My Go-To cycle has always been the Jochum first set, but I'm glad to have a comparison between the two. Sometimes you hear someone saying something about a Jochum recording and you think they're talking about one performance but really talking about another... It's madness! This will help. Also, I completely agree with you about Celibidache's Bruckner, but found it surprising that you liked it. Celibidache doesn't seem like your thing. He's futzing with the tempos and making points and showing us the little details. Don't you usually hate that? I often do, too, but when it's Celibidache I don't mind. He was amazing in this repertoire. Not for everyday listening, but not to be ignored, either.
The DGG Jochum has been my Bruckner choice for eons. Encouraged by availability and price of the Dresden set on Warner, I finally plunged for it earlier this year. It has been ear-opening. Dresden's brass is a huge plus and it's now far and away my first choice.
Great video. Agreed on the Skrowaczewski! The Jochum/Staatskapelle and Tintner ones are my main alternates.
Thanks for another great video David. I’ve been a fan of your books long before I discovered this lovely channel.
Do you consider writing a Bruckner guide?
Actually, I have, but heaven knows if and when it will be published. I may do it myself.
Thank you David . Always illuminating and done with wonderful humour .
As always, David, your videos and reviews are delightful, insightful and great stimulants to discover new repertoire. I'm a Bruckner fan since I listened the 7th for the first time when I was 13 (Klemperer's version, long surpassed in my affections). I think this is a great video as an overall map of Bruckner performances. However I do have a discrepancy regarding Herbert Blomstedt's Gewandhaus set: I think it's the most interesting recent cycle of Bruckner symphonies; the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 6th are among the fine recordings of those works. I do prefer Blomstedt's earlier 7th with Staatskapelle. Boring is an adjective I would apply to Tintner, for example. But that's how each individual taste works! Thank you very much for your wonderful work.
Fair enough! Thanks for your comments--and do give the Klemperer 7th another listen. Sometimes it's fun to go back after a long break (if that's what it was).
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll do it! Sometimes the first impressions are fundamental for our own "soundworld", on other cases they are surpassed. Haitink's 1978 recording with Concertgebouw was an ear opener (and so were Jochum's several renditions). But I'll reach for my Klemperer CD.
Skrowaczewski must be one of the most under-rated conductors in modern music. He spent a great deal of time with the Minneapolis/Minnesota Orchestra which provided less visibility than Cleveland or New York. Minnesota was blessed to have him for so long and I always heard the musicians loved him.
(Deep breath!). Dave, how do you remember all that. You can't have listened to that much Bruckner very many times. Yet you still remember the characteristics of individual movements. Amazing! Many thanks.
Thank you. Well, I have listened to that much Bruckner, but I do have kind of a trick memory for musical details.
Thank you once again, David for a stupendous talk. I learn more from your talks, than any other 'writers' I come across. To 'do' Bruckner must have been a task and a half, but you made it seem so easy! That's real knowledge and expertise at work.
I think I might possibly have the elusive Haitink 7th you mentioned (the one that's NOT in the box) but still on Philips with the Concertgebouw. It was recorded in 1979, Philips 'Solo' series, whereas the box set you featured was (I think) earlier....?
Anyway - great presentation.
I totally agree with your general grouse about 'unnecessary' recordings, if I may put it like that. Cycle after cycle, after cycle, seems to be thing thing; just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
You sir, are hilarious, and I love you.
Nice tip suggesting Suitner. I'd never heard him and his 8th from 1986/87 is pretty nice.
Gergiev: 'he did an extremely horrible Mahler cycle with the LSO ... he had not a clue what to do with Mahler. Gergiev has not a clue what to do with a lot of things'.
Dave, you are a living treasure. Keep it up.
EXACTLY! Neither does Rattle.
Gergiev sounds like the musical equivalent of Vlaidimir Putin - Putin comes across as an automonon when interviewed.
@@ahartify he's always come across and thoughtful and articulate to me. Very intelligent man, imagine the number of moving parts he has to keep track of.
@@VisiblyJacked is that not the same for any conductor of orchestral music?
@@richardmohr8604 yes, but I was referring to Vladimir Putin. I imagine that running an empire like he has for 25 years is even more demanding than being a conductor.
This was so entertaining and I had that CSO Barenboim 4 on LP.
This is such a gas! Hysterical - and also SO informed. I've been eyeing the Skrowaczweski Birthday box (which includes the Bruckner cycle) - how are the other symphony cycles in it?
Some here swear by them, but I am not so impressed. They are decent but not as distinctive as his Bruckner.
Listening to the scherzo of the 9th with Skrowaczewski! What a delight! The middle section feels like ballet music from Aida or something... So refreshing!...
Wonderful video! The wonderful Skrowaczewski Bruckner cycle is also available on Arte Nova (a very nicely produced box) - it might easier to find than the Oehms. I must admit I'm not too keen on Barenboim's Chicago Bruckner - too brassy. I agree that the Wand Cologne box is very good, but his best Bruckner is elsewhere. Any thoughts on Rosbaud or Schuricht?
You can find reviews on ClassicsToday.com
On your recommendation, I purchased the Warner Jocum box from Amazon (it was $20). I am really getting into the Bruckner symphonies. Listening to the 9th right now. I'll have to get a couple of the other s in the future...
Totally agree on Rozhdestvensky's Bruckner! ;-)
I spend hours after hours (too many?) of quality time watching your videos, thanks a lot!
One little thing (take it if you will, from a Romanian subscriber): the name of Celibidache is pronounced at the end KE, not HE like you do (for CHE), as it would be also in Italian. However, I understand your pronunciation may be more for effect :)
P.S. I bought the Wand box following your recommendation! Thanks again.
No, it's not for effect, it's sheer ignorance. Happily, I couldn't care less.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sure. I, however, was pleased to learn from your videos how to pronounce Fricsay. A suggestion: I would love it if you could make a video about why more than a few conductors or music pros in general, such as Celibidache, are over the moon with Bruckner, but cannot care less about Mahler - except maybe for his songs. Thanks.
@@discipulussimplex That's a tough one, but thought-provoking.
@@discipulussimplex that is maybe because Celibidache understood that Mahler ' s music fuckin sucks. And that is why he didn 't care about it.
Ha! I've had the same Gergiev-interview experience. Like two people on two different planets. The M-Phil people apologized afterwards in slight embarrassment.
I think Karajan's 1 and 3 are underrated, perhaps because those numbers tend to get overlooked anyway.
I watched this once and tried to scrub through it again to find Wand's Kolner RSO cycle which I think is fantastic! Great tempo, a wonderfully clear and sharp-sounding horn section, standout melody from the individual instruments, and dramatic theatrical mood changes... What's not to love? If Jochum is too fast for you and Celibidache is just way too SLOOOOOOOW, you might find Wand just right.
The trouble with Wand is that he made better recordings of everything in that set later on. It's a good set, but he's better represented elsewhere.
Wonderful talk and overview. Agree on you regarding the merits of the Barenboim/CSO and Jochum/Dresden cycles (we have both). I also agree Karajan with the BPO is better in syms 7, 8, & 9 than the others. I tried listening to the Gergiev/Munich Bruckner 8 and could not make it past the first movement. "Dreadful" may be too harsh, but it is an unexpressive, indifferently presented non-happening. I really like Skrowaczewski in nos 5 and 8; based on this talk I may consider getting his integral cycle.
Thank you, as always.
Thanks for that, I've got the Eugen Jochum set staatskapelle, EMI. I'll investigate the scrobacevski
Attended many of the Barenboim/CSO performances. Great memories. During slow movements, the usually coughy Chicago audiences were dead silent. And they were unusual to look at. Bruckner brings out the nerdy, weirdos types, who study Bruckner in the dark basement of their parents home, where they live at age 45. Nothing wrong with that, but Bruckner is their man. Some listen to NOTHING else.
Intended as an assistance to your viewers for the discussed recordings - -
The Suckiest one: Rozhdestvensky/Melodiya (1:25)
Compilation by Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra/various conductors (3:45)
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra/Lorin Maazel (6:05)
Brilliant Classics Collection/various conductors (6:55)
Berlin Philharmonic/Karajan (8:34)
Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Solti (10:40)
Orchestre de la Suisse Romande/Janofski (11:51)
Berlin Philharmonic/Barenboim (Cycle 2) (13:58)
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra/Haitink (early cycle) (15:14)
Various orchestras/Chailly (16:43)
Radio Symphony Orchestra Frankfurt/Inbal (17:53)
PHILHARMONIE FESTIVA/Schaller (19:04)
Munich Philharmonic/Celibidache (24:16)
Munich Philharmonic/Gergiev (26:53)
Gewandhaus Orchestra Leipzig/Blomstedt (31:09)
Various Orchestras/Tintner (32:54)
Cologne Radio Symphony Orchestra/Wand (34:35)
Vienna Philharmonic/various conductors (36:39)
Berlin Philharmonic, Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra/Jochum (38:11)
Staatskapella Dresden/Jochum (39:27)
Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Barenboim (Cycle 1) (41:03)
Saarbrucken Radio Symphony Orchestra/Skrowaczewski (44:19)
The Georg Tintner on Naxos recommendation is right on the money! These recordings are with orchestras you probably have never heard of, everybody, except that I can assure you this suggestion is excellent!
I only recently blundered into your series, which I find enjoyable and useful. For one thing, they reinforce my habit of avoiding boxed sets. My only mistake was the Prokofiev symphonies, with a French orchestra conducted by Rostopovich, which I dont enjoy. I guess that Prokofiev's orchestration is difficult to record. Regarding Bruckner #7, I have the recording with Dohnanyi and the Cleveland which i impose on anyone who will listen - but i guess he didn't do a boxed set. Looking forward to your series.
Dave, what's your opinion on the Dennis Russell Davies cycle? I've seen reviews of Symphonies 4 & 8 on Classicstoday (9/9 rating) but nothing about the whole set.
I this it's dull and faceless, for the most part.
I will say of the Bruckner 8 by Maazel with the Berlin Philharmonic: I heard it, and I thought I was hearing Karajan conduct. Was Karajan supposed to record it, and Maazel substituted due to contractual reasons? I was amazed at how good it was.
I'm watching this video now for the third time, Dave. I find it so great (as are your other videos). I wonder if you have an opinion on the newly released Paavo Järvi Bruckner cycle from Frankfurt. Only released in Japan (as to my knowledge) and VERY expensive. I've been sampling nos. 2, 4, 5, and 6 on a streaming service and they sound very good. But again, its perhaps too pricy (180 USD plus shipping)?
I find it uninteresting--I reviewed two performances (7 and 9) for ClassicsToday.com and heard a few more. You can check out the reviews there if you're curious.
@@DavesClassicalGuide many thanks, I'll check out the reviews on CT.
Dear Mr Hurwitz!
I would like to ask you to consider to make a more detailed talk about the Skrowaczewski
recordings. Just like you recently have done about Tennstedt's, Ozawa's and Bertini's Mahler recordings.
Best wishes Fred.
Hello Mr.Hurwitz,regarding the transcendental and spiritual music of Bruckner,I can say that until now I like his interpreter maestro Sergiu Celibidache the most(which does not mean that it will remain so)!It took me some time to understand and accept his characteristic slow way of performing,which is special and wonderful!!I recomended everyone who doesn't like Celibidache to pay more attention to it.I also like Karajan's Bruckner,E.Jochum's and S.Skrowatzevsky.I'm interested what you think about G.Ludwig Jochum,he impressed me?...I'll.listen,listen,listen to everything now I'm not.Thanks to your competent and valuable recommendations!Your description are often phenomenal and simply fascinate me!Thank you very much!You have become my most favorite online teacher!Greetings!
Thank you. Greetings back.
Thank you for the review of Bruckner's symphony cicles! I had to say it's very mind-opening for some people like me who are not huge fans of Bruckner. I would look foreward for a review of Bruckner's choral works (masses, cantatas, mottets).
Suggestion for additional Analytics pandering. Could you go back and redo Mahler 7 & 8? I think they were done when you were just starting and are very short, would love to see a deeper dive.
Already asked and answered in these comments, but I appreciate the suggestion.
Having heard Celibidache doing Bruckner I can´t bear to hear anyone else try it. Talking of Barenboim, I heard him with the Chicago at the BBC proms in the 90´s playing Mahler´s fifth and it was years before I could face listening to it again. I still steer clear of the Chicago.
Sad for you...
As long as we're doing the high viewership warhorses- after listening to the amazing Klemperer recording of Egmont, I'd love a talk about Beethoven overtures!
Klemperer's recordings of the Leonora Overtures are amazing too.
Fantastic video, and great fun too! What do you think about the Gielen cycle?
There's a review on ClassicsToday.com that sums it up nicely. His Fifth is terrific.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks!
What do you think about the 50+ year old Jochum performances on DG with the Berlin Philharmonic? I've owned that set for over 50 years (vinyl, of course).
Some are great (the Fourth with Berlin, especially), others not so much.
FYI - I ordered the Ohms set from jpc a while ago, who inform me that the recordings are being remanufactured by the label. No idea when they will be available.
Came across a recent interview with Dr. Strangelove... Unt, he spoke of how much he used to enjoy the various.. Bruckner Cycles, while veekending at Berchtesgaden...
Really love this video, David! I live in Munich where as you say people must have lots of time for Bruckner 😂. And I have listened to Bruckner symphonies many times in concert halls including conductors like Jansons, Thielemann, Wand, Blomstedt, and others. But the one who impressed me most was Celibidache with the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra. Late Celi‘s approach to Bruckner was indeed very special and personal and anyone trying to copy this approach will fail as you said. The remarkable thing was also that late Celi was a clear opponent of any kind of recordings. The EMI recordings you are mentioning were only released after he died in 1996 (I guess his son wanted to make some money out of it). Anyway good to have these recordings but they are just a poor copy of listening to him conducting live in a concert hall!
Actually, I heard him live in Bruckner and the recordings do him full justice, and may even be better, since you can go to the bathroom or have a snack whenever you feel like it, and aren't glued to an uncomfortable seat. Also, not all of his performances were good, but a great recording (or one that preserves a great live performance) lasts forever. I'd much rather have a sure thing than spend years of my life (and piles of money) waiting for him to be "on."
@@DavesClassicalGuideI was likely to harsh by saying that the Celi recordings are just a „poor copy“ of experiencing Celi with Bruckner in concert halls - let‘s call it a copy. And yes, you can smell from the EMI recordings how special his late concerts (for sure not all but at least quite some) have been. My comment was more meant to encourage people to visit concerts at least now and then - in particular when great artists / conductors are in town - rather than ONLY listening to recordings. Fully agree to your point that live concerts even from the same artist are not always of the same quality; it‘s all about human beings. And yes, you might need to spend lots of money for a concert ticket, your back might hurt on the seat, and also acoustics might not be the best from your seat (I could sing a song on this regarding the philharmonic concert hall in Munich where you can have seats with pretty good acoustics but also others with very bad one). BUT: sometimes you can have very special moments in live concerts: less than 2 weeks ago I was in a concert with Vikingur Olafsson playing Bach‘s Goldberg variations. Pure Bach, no break, no encores. A very, very special concert! But of course, I also really like his DG recording of this piece just released in October this year.
@@DavesClassicalGuidebtw, I love your comments on Thielemann: you brought it exactly to the point!
Simone Young did a vibrant cycle, well recorded too.
Not really.
Yes really! What don't you like about it Dave? Her tempi can be on the quick side at times, for my liking, but she does fine gradations and dynamic shading extremely well. Just before and after the 13 minute mark of her slow movement of the 2nd is case in point. She can generate plenty of heft and fire when required too, and has a good feel for overall structure. The recording quality of these live performances is first class. Btw, I enjoyed your take on the Bruckner box sets, but you really need to have Asahina and Eichhorn in there!
I only have the Jochum Warner cycle, but loads of individual recordings (including what I think is a very good 4 & 5 with the Philadelphia and Ormandy - very underated Bruckner conductor). Now I'm always up for something different - what about the cheapy cheap Wurttemberg Philharmonic cycle conducted by Roberto Paternostro? I suspect as they're not included they ain't great but I've seen some great reviews - just curious.
For the price you'll get a real treat with the Paternostro set despite its occasional (and there are many of them) shaky moments in the orchestra, but Paternostros grip on the Brucknerian idom as through the Zen'ish lens (he was assistant to Karajan) is indisputable.
That's a fair summary.
Back in the '90s, a classical music magazine effusively sang praises of Bruckners from the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra!! Why that was so remains a great mystery to me.
ARG? For one thing, the Cincy Orchestra is underrated. 2nd, Lopez-Cobos did some outstanding ones on Telarc.
3rd, if it was ARG, the editor lives in Cincinnati.....
Thanks, Dave. This made me howl. A highlight was the choice phrases about Gergiev. He phoned in so much non-Russian stuff that it was embarrassing. I remember starting to listen to a broadcast of Traviata from the Met. I think I managed about two minutes. He simply didn't understand Verdi's melodic shape. (It seems oxymoronic to write that last sentence but there you go). Maybe, now that he has a great deal more time on his hands he can think about the music a bit more.
I grew up in Manchester UK in the 70s. We had two main orchestras: the Halle and the BBC Philharmonic. At one point we had Skrowaczewki at the Halle and Gunther Herbig at the Phil. Both were amazing and scandalously underappreciated. I will look out for Stan's Bruckner.
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies where the advent of spring is upon us. Good to see that your ursine “BBBRRRUUUCCCKKKNNNEEERRR” is back with a vengeance. Could not agree more with you re Rozhdestvensky (worse cycle in history), the fly-in, fly-out Gergiev and Barenboim V3. I prefer Karajan’s Orbital Majesty over the Furtwängler / Jochum Gear-Change School of Bruckner but that comes down to taste. As an aside, Barenboim’s wider discography is reaching such proportions as to warrant being called a plague - I am not surprised that you ignore his output studiously - after all, where does one start with him? Other than Sibelius and Bach’s choral works, what has he not recorded in his own forgettable (for the most part) ways? It would be a three hour talk, to no vivid end. Note, I am not asking you here to chance your arm. As the great American Philosopher Clint Eastwood once observed, “A man’s gotta know his limitations.” Best wishes, B
I bought the wand box because i remembered a gramophone review from the late 90s!
The Skrowaczewski cycle is also in the 28 CD 90th Birthday box the Oehms put out in 2013. Some of the other composer CDs are very good.
I thought this was an excellent light-hearted criticism of bruckner cycles. I agreed with many things said and liked listening to his summations.
Dave, any comment about Juanjo Mena’s recording of Bruckner 6th on Chandos?
Not yet.
Your taste in the first three Bruckner symphonies is the opposite of mine, Dave (which is of course, fine). You like exciting, fast, dynamic performances - I like a laid back approach. I don't like to feel like I've taken a battering by the end of the last movement. My favorites for Symphonies 1 and 2 are Kurt Masur with the Leipzig Gewandhaus for their beauty of sound calmness of style. I haven't heard the whole cycle so I can't comment on the rest of it. For the third, I enjoy Celibidache's EMI recording, Kubelik with the Bavarian RSO. My first recording was the Rozhdestvensky of which I admit to still being fond - imprinted on it, I suppose.
Fair enough! You like what you like.
Love your videos David, and watch them daily. Just one comment on this thread though. Are you not contradicting yourself with your final recommendation of the Saarbrücken Radio Symphony Orchestra and Stanislaw Skrowaczewski? Surely not a first rank orchestra.......
No, but a first rank conductor can get them to play like one... But to clarify, there are many orchestras I would class as "first rank"--not just the most famous ones, and as we all know there are many second-tier ensembles that can do better than the big names on any given day. So there's no substitute for actually listening carefully and comparatively. I don't judge by name or reputation. If Fischer got "first rank" playing from his band, I'd say so.
Great review (as usual) but I was (slightly) disappointed not to get what would have been one of your legendary rants on the Venzago cycle.
Stay tuned...
Just listening now to this, didn't know you did a Bruckner cycle. Just waiting for the crack down on so much ineffective renditions. Jochum is my favourite--balanced, not too harsh ... which is the failing I've encountered in so many alternative recordings.
"Oh, it's just so horrible!" . . . love it!
Dear David, is Jochum/Emi's novena better than Giulini/Vienna? I have Jochum and I haven't been able to buy Giulini's yet. I ask you because I have read excessive praise about Giulini in Vienna but I have not listened to it.
Best regards
They are completely different, and not directly comparable.
Do try and listen to Giulini. You wont regret it.
Generally agree with you, with the exception of Maazel and Tintner. I'm not generally a fan of Maazel, but to me his Bruckner cycle with BRSO (as opposed to his Mahler cycle with NYP) is a resounding success; admittedly leisurely tempos but truly committed interpretations with an unerring sense of line and pacing, beautifully played and recorded. I find this cycle as convincing as Skrowaczewski's, but in a different way. On the other hand, I've never been convinced by Tintner's Bruckner; for all the acclaim this cycle has received, I find his readings soft-edged and unfocused, and the orchestral playing often desultory.
La 9° sinfonía de Bruckner por Haitink fue la que escuché por primera vez y, además, estaba a precio medio.
Me gustó mucho por la dirección de Haitink (gran emotividad) y por la gran orquesta que es el Concertgebouw. Después escuché a Karajan (grabación de 1966) pero me gustó más la de Haitink.
Sigo con gran interés tus excelentes comentarios.
Un saludo.
Hallo David, great Video! I watched on TH-cam the piece called „Abendlied“, from a guy named Rheinberger. Do you know him? What do you think about him.
Rheinberger was a very conservative mid-19th century German composer who is best known for his organ music, some of which is actually really good. I find his orchestral works to be pretty dull, but he also wrote some attractive chamber works and, as you have pointed out. some lovely choral music too.
Joseph RHEINBERGER, *17.03.1839 (Vaduz, Liechtenstein), +25.11.1901 (München, Bayern). Er verfaßte 4 Opern, 2 Bühnenmusiken, etliche Shakespeare-Ouvertüren, das Oratorium "Der Stern von Betlehem" sowie 5 geistliche Oratorien, 18 Messen, 4 Requiem, 4 Stabat Mater, ein Klavierkonzert, 36 Motetten, Streichquartette, Streichquintette, Klaviertrios, Klavierquartette, zahlreiche geistliche Lieder, Lieder, Orgelsonaten und sehr vieles andere mehr.
Good news in the case of Bruckner Cycles! Very good news, indeed. Best news ever! The Bruckner Orchester Linz (nomen es omen), conducted by Markus Poschner (heard of him yet) records all of Bruckner's symphonies in ALL versions! My only problem with this great undertaking is, if we will be provided with supplements, when Ben Cohrs makes further editions of the daily modifications.
Tinnitus Classics could accompany this wonderful project by recording the Aequales for trombones in all versions. Wouldn't this be great?
I thought you were a humorless.... from the website, but you are great!
I am a humorless.....
I was curious what you would say about Heinz Rögner, and I agree that he has a very interesting and sensible approach, along with some beautiful sonorities from the orchestra.
Lots of time in Bavaria. Well, you'd need LOTS of time just to get through a Bruckner performance by Celibidache. I think his final performance is due to finish some time next week.
My Favorite line was " the cycles that suck are in the overflow room!" 😆
Hello, er, friends, the Skrowaczewski cycle, if you are after it, is available from Playthek / Grooves in Germany. Well, at least it was when I ordered it last night.
Do you have a link to that store please? I am keen on getting the set.