Repertoire: The BEST Wagner Ring Cycles
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2021
- Debate over the merits of recordings of Wagner's endlessly fascinating epic Der Ring des Nibelungen has been raging since the advent of sound technology, but choosing the best of them is actually pretty easy. In fact, there is a remarkable consensus, although you'd hardly know it sometimes amid all the heated verbiage. I propose to keep things simple, and give you some straight advice that will both get you started on your listening journey, and guide you as far as any rational person needs to go.
- เพลง
As a Wagnerite, a crazy person - I can't comment, but will just say thanks for the video.
Hojotoho, indeed!
Wise way to avoid David's censorious fingertips.
Haha, likewise.
Me too!
I was from Hong Kong (I immigrated to the States 28 years ago). I listened to Hong Kong Philharmonic growing up. This Ring recording is the best I have ever heard from my home town orchestra. It completely changed my opinion towards them. After the pandemic I hope I will get a chance to listen to them live again
The 1955 Keilberth is my favorite Ring overall. I know the Solti is more technically perfect, and I'm glad I had the opportunity to learn the work from it, but the Keilberth offers an amazing sonic window into what was surely one of Bayreuth's greatest decades.
Great set, and Keilberth's 1953 set is even greater for the singing, but alas, it's not in stereo.
Owners of the Solti version really need to get John Culshaw's book "Ring Resounding" about the production of that justifiably famous set. Terrific read. But for headphone listening, Karajan's is the easiest of the ears IMO.
It is a pity that when he wrote the book, Culshaw did not know that Ernst Kozub was in precarious health and may well have decided that he needed to try to make as much as he could while he still could, even in the knowledge that he might not be able to fulfil engagements. I don't know if Jon Vickers was approached but he would never have worked with Solti after the Covent Garden debacle.
When I bought my first Solti Ring, it was on LP and a set of books, including Culshaw's "Ring Resounding" was included. Great insights to the challenges of recording the work. I loved the Solti so much, that I bought the identical set when it came out on CD. The only other Ring I have is Levine and the Met on DVD, since it was one of the few "traditional" stagings available on DVD. I did not want to buy a version that would be of the moment and outdated before the Rhine washed over Hagen.
@@Horichdaslicht1858 In other words, Kozub was "our Siegfried"? Not named in the book.
@@Rozsaphile Yes.
@@Rozsaphile Culshaw named Kozub in his (uncompleted) memoirs.
I am on the floor laughing. Great review, David. Excellent reviews. And your synopses of the various Wagner camps were spot on (and hilarious). My favorite three are Solti, Karajan, and Bohm--all have flaws, I love 'em all. For me they helped me gain an appreciation not just for Wagner, but how a conductor's vision shapes the performance.
Hello David Hurwitz. Good listening to you. Thanks for uploading this and for making it just about the music and the musician and the quality of performances.
Oh no I would never ever expected the Hong Kong Philharmonic to be featured in the list of David Hurwitz’s list of the Ring recordings to go for, together with the titans like Solti, Keilberth and Karajan etc!!! As a HKer I am ashamed to not giving enough attention to my hometown orchestra. Now I must rush out and get this recording, fast!
Thank you for a very informative video. I’m pleased that you highlighted the Naxos Ring as I bought that years ago as individual releases as they were issued. I always thought highly of them but they were rarely mentioned in reviews, so I’m happy that you thought so highly of them.
Thank Bob Levine, ClassicsToday's opera critic who has the finest ear in the business, and absolutely no prejudice where quality is concerned. He's taught me more than I can begin to express.
There are two Sieglinde screams in Böhm. End of Act 1 scream of ecstasy and end of Act 2 scream of sorrow. She also ends in a vocal volcanic eruption of hope in Act 3. Rysanek was truly an exceptional singer.
I have never actually heard this piece at all. I loved this review and I will now be checking out this work. :-) Thanks for another great video.
I hope you've heard this by now. First time I ever heard the ring, I thought it was terrible music. Years later, I heard it again, and my life changed. Overall, I prefer the Boulez.
Such a nice and passionate video of the Opus Magnum by the greatest composer ever!
My favorite (as a native German):
Clemens Krauss 1953 live recording from Bayreuther Festspiele.
Never heard anything better!
Um, OK, but spare us that "greatest composer ever" nonsense.
I don’t know if the Krauss is the best overall Ring, but it’s the best Siegfried.
My colection of Rings is Solti, Karajan, Bohem, Furtwengler, Barenboim, Clemens Krauss, Sawalisch and Levine. Van Zweden, Janowski and Keilberth are next. Great and funny review that enjoyed and agree upon wholeheartedly. 👍👍👍👏👏👏✌️✌️✌️
Somewhat amazingly, I actually own all three of your recommendations! I had the good fortune to know and work with Jimmy Brown, who was one of the Decca engineers who recorded the Solti cycle. I also met John Culshaw a few times, so I have a bit of a 'vested interest' in that version!
Love the Bohm ring. Not sure if I love it as much your biting snark though. Keep it coming Dave, you're a treasure.
Thanks for the video!! I am wondering how Rudolf Kempe's cycles sound. I found two sets on the market - Bayreuth 61 and Covent Garden 57. I regard many of Kempe's recordings as reference-level, so I'm very curious.
Great choice on the HKPhil Ring set. I attended some of these live concerts. Thrilling experience despite it’s not fully staged plays. Can’t forget that leb wohl delivered by Goerne, kept listening to this piece today. Dilemma of the Wagner Ring - the recording is getting better yet the singers are getting worse.
My favourite example of Karajan’s idiosyncratic casting is that he auditioned Alfred Deller’s son Mark for the role of Erda.
That is delicious to contemplate!
A very entertaining and very well done Video ( I missed any reference to Hans K. Bayreuth Ring) but I need to say I didn't know anything about Bohm Post-coitus scream 🌀 I enjoyed very much watching your Video. Stay Safe and Greetings from Spain 🚩
I love your cheeky ‘Get Solti’, which I heard as a paraphrase on ‘Get Shorty’ 😉
I've gotten to slightly prefer Varnay to Nilsson's Brunnhilde interperatively. When my VHS tapes of the Levine/Met/Otto Schenk production died, I got a DVD set of Barenboim's Ring and it's marvelous as well! More modern, more interesting, but not crazy. great chat!
Wow. This Passion for Music 🙏🏻
I have in my collection: Boehm, Keilberth, Solti, Karajan, Furtwaengler '50 and '53, Krauss, Knappertsbusch '57 and '58. If I had to choose two, it would be the historic Keilberth and Stereo "in Bayreuth", Boehm!!
I own the Karajan (as an orchestral musician, I love it over all others), and know the Solti, Boulez and Barenboim very well. I couldn’t agree with you more. Very fair critiques . Your comments are spot on! I must hear the Böhm… exciting and raw? Böhm? Who knew? 😂 Thanks again, David.
It is really very good Jack. Much as I have issues about Bohm as a human being he could be very exciting. Yes his Ring is a bit rough sometimes orchestrally (close miking of brass etc) but it is terrifically exciting, try Gotterdammerung Act 2! But similarly he was very exciting in Strauss and Berg.
What do you think of Boulez's Ring? David never talked about it.
@@ericc8269 Actually he does, if only for a good bit less than a minute: see 3:30.
Hands down, Solti has the best anvil chorus (in Rheingold), the best collapse of Valhalla and alphorns (Götterdämmerung). Oh, and the music is pretty good, too.
Solti's steer-horns sound so "right" for Hagen, I'm surprised that other recordings/productions haven't followed suit.
@@ftumschk there's a great clip in the documentary where they film the rehearsal/recording of the whole sequence. fascinating to watch.
I think musically, Solti’s Valhalla collapse is great, but I’d like it a hell of a lot better without the burning sound effects when Brünnhilde jumps into the pyre.
@@charlescoleman5509 I like the sound effects, it makes you feel like you are watching it on stage, rather than just listening to it.
Wagner is meant to be watched, not just listened to but sadly, every stage director today thinks otherwise! 🤮
@@mogmason6920 Sure, Wagner operas, like all operas, are meant to be watched. But Wagner has taken care of the dramatic things than happen via his score. You hardly need any cheap audio effects to enhance the amazing music that accentuates the story to begin with.
Excellent discussion. Thank you!
One question: where, oh, where can I get that fabulous shirt?! "Abnormal is fine. Stupid is not"? That's perfect! I love it!
We will have an e-commerce portal up in the next few weeks (a month or two?). Hang in there!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fantastic! Thank you!
I only have the Janowski Eurodisc cycle, RCA release I bought back in the late 1980's. I think it was a good intro to the work, esp. with the singing very clear and easy to follow, and the Staatskapelle is great. Some of the high violins sound a bit hard in that early digital way, but overall the sound has great presence. The notes included were excellent, and surprised to hear no notes are incl. in the latest RCA issue, which seem essential to someone coming new to this massive work.
No matter which is your favorite, I claim special consideration for the Solti (sort of like a "Lifetime Achievement Award). I believe it was the first one issued commercially, it put Wagner on the map, put Nilsson on the map, put the VPO on the map, put Culshaw on the map, put Decca/London on the map, etc. Even if it's not your favorite, the interest generated by the Solti ring (IMO) helped greatly in selling future issues (whether originally recorded before or after the Solti).
Hi David, I have just discovered your channel and would like to say how much I have enjoyed what I've seen and heard so far. In 2004 I attended the State Opera production of the full cycle in Adelaide, South Australia as conducted by Asher Fisch. The whole endeavor was recorded and released on the Melba Label on SACD Hybrid CDs. The production was engineered by the same people who were later responsible for the marvelous recent Naxos Hong Kong edition. Have you heard it? The Walkure in particular is excellent.
Welcome aboard! No, I have not heard the Melba recordings.
I wouldn't call myself a historical recording nut (all-in-all I prefer Janowski's Dresden Ring with its crystal clear leitmotivs), but for those who are not averse to somewhat older sonics, I can really recommend the (uncut and very decently recorded) 1949 Vienna Rudolf Moralt Ring. It features the older generation of prewar singers and offers a glimpse of how Wagner must have sounded to the ears of interbellum composers like Berg, Schoenberg, Strauss, etc. And it's so well sung/enunciated that for those who understand German, you can follow the text without the libretto.
Thanks for the suggestion
1949 and 1953 Krauss is not too far away tho. Might as well recommend the 1928 Parsifal and Siegfried Wagner early Bayreuth singers to hear what Wagner would have had which is more convincing
The Dresden Ring has become a favorite. Youthfulness of the singers is a good thing.
I enjoyed Dave's retelling of Leonie Rysanek's scream. However, one fine evening at the Met Jon Vickers pulled and pulled, yet Notung wouldn't budge. And then finally out it came in pieces, with something flying into the orchestra pit while another fragment just missed Sieglinde's head. The performance was unusual in that Birgit Nilsson was singing the role of Sieglinde, not Brunnhilde. Well, Nilsson let out a shriek, but it was a shriek of terror, not of joy. Many in the audience, including myself, cracked up in hysterics. This greatest singers also had a keen sense of humor and was really fast on her feet.
Kober with the Duisburger Philharmoniker is great too. Janowski with the Rundfunk-Sinfonieorchester Berlin and James Levine with the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra as well.
Hello from Bombay (Mumbai) India!
And THANK YOU for a most informative and entertaining channel...which is also highly addictive 🙂
Sorry to start off with an error-correction: The Bohm Bayreuth Ring is actually a live recording, not studio.
Heard the "post-coital scream". Here are a few others which are comparable:
1. The electronically doctored scream at the end of "Il Tabarro" conducted by Pappano.
2. Tebaldi's shriek as she jumps off the parapet in "Tosca" (Met live, Mitropoulos).
3. Resnik's offstage screams in Solti's Decca/London recording of "Elektra".
4. Albanese's deep, shuddering "Ahime!" during Act 4 of "Manon Lescaut" (Perlea, RCA).
And now, please tell us more about the "barking dog" during Ormandy's recording of "Scheherazade" 🙂
Did I say it was a studio recording? Sorry about that!
No problem!
Thanks Dave for the interesting choice, and as a Wagner and opera cookie I agree with almost everything. Indeed I find myself agreeing with you on many of your reviews. I might however prefer some of the individual operas in isolated recordings (like Furtwangler's studio Walkure, or Leinsdorf's Walkure with G London as Wotan, or that incredibly intense and black granite Gotterdammerung recorded live in Oslo with the 62 year old Flagstad) What's your opinion on my theory that Wagner is not a passion, it's a disease?
Thanks, Dave. Very judicious talk. I have, or have spent time with, all of your suggestions, apart from the Naxos one, which I am now intrigued about. Whatever the singers you have in a particular decade you have to do this work, it shows no signs of going away in opera houses anywhere, so seeing how this shapes interpretation is exactly the positive way to move forwards. I'm fond of all of your other suggestions for different reasons - the Janowski, for example, is really excellent and has a quite different "sound" than most of the others plus some great singing (Peter Schreier as Loge and Mime for example). Somehow it sounds more 19th century in pacing and delivery - I'm not really a Nilsson fan so I like Altmeyer's more youthful, lighter Brunnhilde. The Karajan is indeed a whole that is more than the sum of its parts and I wouldn't be without it (although the Bohm and Solti are certainly more exciting in key scenes). Some of the problems there have struck me as having more to do with the recording balances than the singing - for example, the forging scene in Siegfried Act 1 where Stolze is louder than Jess Thomas, or the trio in Gotterdammerung Act 2 where Ridderbusch seems relegated to the background somehow. Unlike some, I really love Fischer-Dieskau as the young Wotan. I just don't believe that Vickers and Janowitz are twins though!
If I had to keep one, it'd probably be the Keilberth because of the capturing of the great voices of that time in Bayreuth in stereo, but the Solti is remarkably still an excellent top recommendation.
Yes, Janowitz had more hair on her chest.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Lol and I'm thinking that it was always her destiny, given she was called "Gundula", to be in a heavier Wagner role than Elsa. So Kudos to Karajan for making that possible...
I appreciate Gundula Janowitz and think that her voice is truly beautiful, especially in the mid and lower registers. But I've never been able to shake the disappointment of her relatively thin sound in those wonderful, soaring lines of Sieglinde. Despite that, I prefer Karajan's Walkure to Solti's, on balance, even though Crespin is an ideal Sieglinde. BTW, keep in mind that Siegfried and Sieglinde are fraternal twins, not identical! :-)
@@dennischiapello7243 Point taken! However, taking some interest in these discussions with so many intelligent listeners I did find myself wondering whether the best way to do the Ring initially is really a sound recording. Maybe its best to actually watch it? Then get a recording. Its a supposedly "total work of art" after all, so its not quite right just to think about CDs here.
Thanks for this! I really like 1956 Knappertsbusch. You are right about Stewart. George London as the Rhinegold Wotan with Solti is fabulous. Curious as to your opinion on Levine on DG?
See above.
Great video, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps I'll add Van Zweden to my collection... but I'm reluctant to buy modern Wagner since Thielemann decided to try his luck in this repertoire. Keilberth and Barenboim, yes! I think Levine deserves an honourable mention: his Ring is very well recorded, very well played and quite decently sung. But for the rest I agree totally with your recommendations...
James Morris is the best Wotan who sang the role in all three operas of one cycle.
Agreed on JK, DB & especially CT. CT almost seems to set out to make everything unenjoyable right from the start. My guess is JvZ would not disappoint.
I am going to catch so much hate for this, but I grew up with the Levine Ring, and it remains my favorite to this day. I know that people complain about the glacial tempos, but honestly, the slowness of some of the sections draws out the depth of Wagner's rich harmonies and sonorous orchestrations (I like the Fate motif and the Brünnhilde's awakening motifs, for example, to be as absolutely drawn out as possible) and also does justice to the profundity of some moments ("Ruhe, ruhe" at the end of Götterdämmerung). No, Behrens is obviously not a real Wagnerian Brünnhilde, but I find that there is an extraordinary sensitivity and character to her voice that gives the character more color than the Nillsons and Varnays of the previous generation. Reiner Goldberg is an acquired taste, but one eventually falls in love with the sound. And of course, one associates it with the Otto Schenck/Günther Schneider-Siemssen production at the Met, which remains one of the greatest opera productions in history
I go a little outside the usual requests. But it's summer, and I love to read during that time. I would love one or more videos about some recommended reading music books (biography, listener guide, etc).
I've written 15 of them. Feel free!
I was all geared up to be a contrarian but I must say I pretty much agree with all of this. I think the ‘53 Krauss has to be the most theatrical version on disc (Alberich’s curse in Rheingold still chills me). But I do find myself grimacing a lot more at the Solti these days and pushing it further to the bottom of the pile now there are so many other splendid recordings.
I hate the Solti. Krauss, Keilberth, Karajan, Janowski... - all better.
This imperfect Wagnerite loves your work and this video! And, I am not crazy, my therapist says so!
What works for me with most operas, Wagner in particular, is getting to know them first via dvd/blu ray. Once you know what's going on you can provide your own visuals to the sound-only cycle of your choice. For me, if opera was all about singing, composers wouldn't have spent so much time fussing about with their librettists which, of course, Wagner didn't do although some would say he should have. As a theatrical experience both the Boulez/Chereau and Copenhagen video Rings are very enjoyable. On cd Solti and Culshaw do a bang-up job of conveying the theatricality of the cycle and without visuals there's the definite advantage of being able to bring your own imagination to bear on underwater nymphs, giants, schlangenwurms, toads and rainbow bridges, none of which ever quite work and sometimes totally bomb on stage.
Actually, I find it more useful to sit down with the libretto and just follow it. Of course, subtitles help with DVDs, but I find most DVD productions to be so silly (when not downright ugly), the singers so unphotogenic, and their acting so pathetic, that it's much more satisfying to use my imagination once I understand what all the screaming is about. Seeing it live is another matter entirely, but to me a video of a live performance is even more artificial and "distancing" then a recording. What we really need are artfully made movies--full scale, glamorous, spare no expense films.
Before the Hurwitz Effect takes over: the Keilberth set is available a LOT cheaper from Berkshire Record Outlet than from Amazon.
Hi Dave. Another great video since I discovered your channel a few weeks ago. I have the Solti and Von Karajan LP recordings on London and DG respectively (I also have both ripped from early CD's on my IPod). Is it worth getting Solti's remastered CD set? Is it going to sound better than my London recording?
No need, really.
Bravo, Dave. Your commentary made me smile. And I know where you're coming from with the choices.
My first set was the Furtwangler RAI. It was on some funny label and was ludicrously cheap. The sound is shit, the orchestra [1st trumpet especially] awful etc etc. But I listened through the murk and in the end I grew to love it. Years later when the Solti was available at a reasonable price I picked it up. My expectations were sky high. I marveled at the sound, drooled at the cast but bit by bit got less and less enthusiastic. It took a long time to work it out. In the end I didn't like Solti. When I compared passages time and again what I found was that while there was more surface theatricality, often the tempi were simply too ponderous and the drama through the text simply got lost. I guess you always fall in love with the one you hear first.
I often find myself listening to the Sawallisch recording because of the nice flow and colors of the orchestra, but it has good singers too. Karajan`s is like a recording for audiophiles, like a beautiful marble statue. The best modern recording from Bayreuth is by Barenboim, I have listened to his Walküre countless times (to my mind, Graham Clarke created probably the best modern versions of Loge and Mime, truly exciting performances!) I never really liked Nilsson and Sawallisch for some reason, there seems to be no real drama in the voices. Purely musically they are wonderful no doubt.
For me, the problem with the Solti cycle is Solti himself. He's great in the dramatic and hard-hitting moments, but his foot is still on the accelerator in the spiritual and more tender or heart-wrenching passages. In comparison, even Karajan sounds more spiritual.
I can't understand Wagner nuts who must hear every Wagner recording. Whenever I re-listen to my 10 least favorite Ring Cycles, just to remind myself why they're so bad, I always vow to myself never to listen to them again for at least the following 3 months.
Hehreste Wonne...:-)
Wait, you own 10 least favorite Ring Cycles?
Nice reviews, Dave.. Loved Wagner since I saw Nilssson at the Met in the early 60s (in Gotterdammerung, she had a live, four-legged Grane--who nuzzled her). It's a shame that toda,y no one dare utter the name of James Levine who was a master Wagner conducter. Levine, along with Barenboim, were my favorites. I hold a special affection for Barenboim, however. He seems to me to be able to extract the marrow from Wagner's sensibilies better than anyone; I feel it all the way down to my bones. His closing of Gotterdamerung (I beleive it's on his "Cycle" recording) is breathtaking. He summoned his"Barenboim horns" to great dramatic effect.
Notwithstanding his deserved moral reckoning, Levine as a Wagner conductor can hardly hold a candle to Solti, Karajan, Bohm, Furtwangler, Barenboim, and Thielemann, among many others. Slow labored interpretations lacking a coherent structure.
@@NYCOPERAFAN Never experienced that but I don't have your speakers. 🤣
If we are cancelling Levine, shouldn't we also cancel Furtwängler for literally being the leading conductor in Germany under the nazis?
My first Ring was Solti's and I think I made good choice with that. I love the Ring, it is one of my greatest artistic experience. I was Furtwängler fanatic years ago and I bought the La Scala Ring too in French Furtwängler Society remaster. I think that version has an acceptable sound and quite balanced regards to the orchestra and singers. (I can't stand with recordings where singers are sings into my face but orchestra sounds far away behind them. I want to hear the orchestral performance too.)
So I like Furtwängler's version also because now I am quite familiar with the Ring. But the worst thing in that for me is the ending of Die Walküre and the Götter. That stupid audience can't wait for the end and start clapping while the beautiful ending chords are still played. That is very annoying for me.
I listened to excerpts from Keilberth's Ring on youtube but the sound is ruined by that very harsh brass sound. I like when brass sounds are played loud but in that case it sounds like the microphones are placed into the horn of the brass instruments. When brasses are playing, they suppress everything else on that recording.
@@orientaldagger6920 Thank you for the reply! I didn't buy another Ring cycle since than. Orchestral performance is important for me (maybe more important than singing). In the meantime I decided that if I will buy another Ring that will be Karajan's. But not now.
Thank you for the overview, Dave. One wonders if a modern Blu-ray of The Ring might be a very effective into the work as a whole. I recall watching the last Met production on PBS in 2012 and being very much entertained and enthralled by it. Yes, this is the one with the Lepage's apparatus and I am aware of some of the criticisms of this cycle, but one does have the gorgeous graphics and subtitles (for the non-German speaking). Many of us have great video tied in with great stereo. One can turn off the video and just listen if one wishes. I am very much interested in what Dave and any of you think about this approach and the Met's last outing (with Levine et al.). And, yes, within 15 seconds of starting to watch Dave this morning, I correctly predicted the "HOWEVER, Solti" at the end. Thanks in advance for any thoughtful feedback.
The LePage cycle is a natural looking production of the Ring Cycle that uses the most cutting edge of stage technology when the production was new. The problem is that the old cycle did exactly the same thing with one slight difference: natural production using every piece of stage wizardry the met state as it was built could do. Schenk's vision conformed perfectly to the theatre and used everything the stage could do, and NO theatre had a better end to the ring than that production where you had the gibichung hall collapse, stage elevators moving the one set off, the image of valhalla burning up, it was still a spectacle to the day they got rid of that cycle. No one ever left thinking that they hadn't SEEN something visually stunning, and it wasn't just in the house it was on the DVD too that it looked just as impressive.
I've never heard anyone say "OOOOH i wanna go see the LePage ring with the machine" because it was a gimmicky toy that was impressive 10 years ago and now everyone's seen stuff like that elsewhere. The visual of the Valkyries riding on those spikes/spokes is not as visually stunning as the ending of the Schenk ring.
If you're going to replace an iconic production of the Ring, you can't do the same style. They would have been better off doing something interesting and provocative that people would have come to love and appreciate, like Chereau, than LePage. It's boring visually and says nothing about the work that the Schenk production didn't already say, and say better.
As far as singing goes, the one big upgrade from LePage to Schenk was Jonas Kaufmann over Gary Lakes but no one else is better than their counterparts. Some are as good, plenty come close, but there's only one actual upgrade. Terfel, who i usually like, was a huge letdown. It just didn't work. The earlier production was vastly superior in my book.
@@djquinn4212 Thank you for the very thoughtful and thorough comments. The earlier Schenk/Levine DVD set from 1990 is a readily available and affordable. I recall watching that on PBS ~30 years ago! Promise to seriously consider it.
@@robertbubeck9194 I try to prove to Dave that people can be Wagnerite and not be obsessive and crazy!
I only own the Solti and I've never felt the need for any other. However, I might buy the latest remastering of it as I note its available on SACD
Solt's Ring is arguably Decca's greatest recording. Still sounds stunning after all these years and as for the Vienna Phil - just fabulous! The Naxos intrigues me though. Didn't know it existed.
The ANALOG Solti ring is so much better than the digital version. But I prefer Boehm.
A lot of seedy playing from VPO, and irregular rhythms. Karajan is a useful corrective. Too bad about Herbie's choice of Siegfried...
@@RModillo Which one - Jess Thomas or Helge Brillioth?
@@ftumschk Whichever sang in Part 3. Sounds like a lieder recital gone very wrong whenever he's involved.
@@RModillo Jess Thomas. Agreed - his voice always struck me as too refined for Siegfried, especially the boisterous young Siegfried of Part 3. Thomas was great in noble roles like Parsifal and Lohengrin, but he just didn't "click" as Siegfried.
Solti has dominated the catalog ever since it's release. It's the stereo yardstick, the recording to test your speakers on your system.
I happened to catch the last 10 minutes of the Gotterdammerung on TH-cam with Barenboim and Bayreuth. If you notice after the fire scene when Brunnhilde disappears into the storm and the people come out, there are two kids (boy and girl) at the forefront. Towards the end of the act, the boy takes the girl by the hand and leads her to the side (or back) of the stage, as the curtain falls. I am so glad you mentioned Barenboim, and he is a Furtwangler type conductor for sure.
Karajan's Die Walkure is special, especially with the singers you mention in that recording. Does it seem that Bohm, on the other hand, races through this cycle? Maybe it adds vitality, I don't know.
Keilberth is indeed a classic recording. But I wonder if this cycle demands stereo, so I might be reluctant to hear a monoraul recording of Wagner. I guess you have to be careful of the volume setting.
My favs are Levine (earlier), Solti, and Naxos Hong Kong!
Great videos David, and they have really helped me build my collection. Could you finish off the Vaughan Williams Symphonies you have done 1, 4 and Job but would love to know your views on the rest.
I'll get there eventually. Got so many to do!
Can anyone recommend what is the best video in English of the Ring cycle? (Or German) Also for English version that is acted out and not just sung.
A very interesting 38 minutes and I agree with much of this. I own the Solti, Keilberth, Janowski (the Pentatone, not the earlier one), the EMI Furtwangler, the Karajan, the Fisch, and pieces of the Haitink and Levine Rings, as well as non-cycle recordings by Knappertbusch, Leinsdorf and Fjelstad. I would not be without the Karajan, although Solti would be my first choice as well. I listened to much of the Bohm when first released (a very, very long time ago) and personally found it to lack depth, something I think is generally true of Bohm's conducting -his DG Beethoven cycle is woeful to my ears. And I have never liked the "post coital" scream in Walkure. I have not heard van Zweden, but I have been fortunate enough to have attended two live Ring cycles, one just a few years ago. BTW, the old EMI Walkure Act 1 with Melchior and Lehmann is a must for any Ring collection.
I enjoy Fjelstad! If you hear Götterdämmerung as the Siegfried and Brünhilde, then it’s one that you have to hear at least once! Svanholm is as good as Windgassen!
Keilberth is a revelation
For once, I agree with almost everything you said in this video. The only one I don’t know the the Van Zweden one with HK Phil. Will give it a go. Thanks David!
You should agree with me more. You'll be the better for it.
In 1957 Birgit Nilsson was Sieglinde at Bayreuth and gave a scream which I've always found to be quite thrilling. As far as I remember, the Levine Ring on CD had no scream at all which was a bit disappointing. What I would like to hear is Act 3 of Parsifal with no scream from Kundry.
Later on, Rysanek became known for the ‘Sieglinde scream’.
This past year, my professor of Aesthetics of Music at the Superior Conservatory of Music of Valencia, said in full class and without blushing, that listening to Wagner is unbearable and boring, but yes, that I open my mind to tribal music indigenous and urban music and that I was not so closed in music, because I replied that for me these last two were not art. For me, this little woman has never heard an opera, from whoever she is, in her life. And a concert or symphony I don't think either. This is the level of many teachers in higher centers in Spain.
oy vey! That's more than frightening.
Wagner bad, Rap good!
On a serious note, this reminds of a friend who described Beethoven as a “Robot” rather than a musician, because his music is written down rather than spread aurally.
He listens to nothing but Reggaeton btw! All of which sounds the same! 😂😂😂
Saying that indigenous music and rap is not art is also a perspective that betrays a lack of actual cultural comprehension. When an artist strives for perfection it is satisfying and when an artist doesn't strive for perfection the art form becomes a caricature of itself, be it urban music, tribal music, or classical music (especially Opera). It is interesting that Leo Tolstoy wrote a book called "What is Art?" where he really ponders on the excesses of classical music in his time and praises the purity of expression in folk art. That is very understandable and there are many great composers who studied, borrowed and collected folk melodies because the absence of pretentiousness in those melodies made them more powerful. Any great composer that has spent time in Spain has appreciated the abundance of indigenous melodies and rhythms available there. No?
This is the attitude of the "woke" movement in America as well. Anything from the West must necessarily be bad because it was created by white oppressors.
You have me laughing so hard. Every thing you say is true. I’m a Wagner lover and saw Parsifal in Bayreuth in 2019 after waiting 6 yrs for a ticket. It was wonderful and all these Wagner lovers together in one small town and theatre is enough for a comic play to written about. I heard many heated debates at my hotel over which performance or artist etc were the best. Besides that it was glorious to experience.
If you don't know it, you might like Colette's novella Claudine and Annie, which features a visit to Bayreuth circa 1900. You have your comic play script right there.
@@DavidNursal2012 Thanks for telling me I will definitely check it out. I will say that you don’t dare cough or move in your seat while the music is playing in any manner. It is total dead silence otherwise you get a withering glance from your neighbor. No bags or any personal articles are permitted in the auditorium and the list goes on . IDs are checked and you will be banned for life if your ticket is counterfeit. Can’t wait to return. lol
@@richardallen3810 I imagined it must be like that. Though oddly enough, the 1962 Bayreuth Parsifal is notorious for audience noise, especially during the prelude.
Sheesh! Yeah, I heard the waiting time is 7 years! I know, because I tried to get tix; in the meantime, I did see Das Rheingold in Karlsruhe a few years ago - 5th row center seat!
I’ll be returning to Bayreuth on Aug 16 after a 3 yr absence for The Ring . Nowhere else in the world is like Bayreuth.
Warner Classics has a 55 CD box Furtwangler box coming out in the next couple of months that is supposed to include all his studio recordings and commercially released live recordings. So there may be yet another attempt to remaster his Ring cycle.
The furtwangler box will not have rai ring; never was meant for commercial release
@@dennismaurer9672 But it should have the EMI Ring. Edit - I see from John Fowler's comment that not all of it survives.
@@Don-md6wn same recording
@@dennismaurer9672 Oops - Dave said Furtwangler did two. I'm as far from an authority on Wagner or Furtwangler as you can get, just made the original comment to let people know another Furtwangler box is coming.
I prefer my Wagner on video--you really need to see the staging of the opera in order to get the full effect. I like my Wagner to be as close to a movie as possible. However I just broke my own rule 2 weeks ago and bought the Naxos Hong Kong Philharmonic Wagner Ring becuase i had read so much about its quality and so far it's only on cd (as far as I know).
So far I'm liking what I hear in this new Ring. Is it the best Ring ever? no--you can get much better historical productions.For example the Kupfer-Barenboim Bayreuth Ring is still one of the best of all time both in staging and in sound. The Barcelona Ring staging was as close to modern Star Wars as you could get--very entertaining to watch on video. However I will say that the Hong Kong Ring in my opinion is the best sounding Ring of the contemporary era (last 15-20 years or so) Your mileage may vary--i know many that say the modern Lepage Metropolitan Opera from several years ago is the best sung of the contemporary era, but i think the Hong Kong sounds better. The orchestra especially sounds wonderful. I agree with Dave you cant go wrong by buying it. It's worth your money.
Have you heard the Pristine remastering of the Furtwangler LaScala RING?
It is vastly improved over all the other versions of these performances that I have previously heard which are indeed in dismal sound.
Yes, and it's still dismal. Better than before, yes, but it's still a case of garbage in, garbage out, even if it's marginally better garbage.
I own 15 Ring Cycles on CD and my top three would be in line with Dave’s:
• Solti
• Bohm
• Keilberth 1955
Dear David! I have a consult. Years ago I bought Tristan und Isolde, by Solti (DECCA). It is quite good in general, but the Tristan is Fritz Uhl... and I just feel that he undersings his parts. Maybe just baceause the rol wasn't for him. Have you heard this version? What do you think? My listening skills are still quite raw... so I'm gonna be glad with your insights. THanks in advance! Luciano.
PS: by the way, which Tristan und Isolde would you recommend to a newbie?
Please see my IDEAL Wagner opera video for a good Tristan recommendation!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks a lot!
@@DavesClassicalGuide See how all the Wagner crazies are behaving ourselves???? We promise to behave if you do a Tristan talk!!!!!!
My first CD Ring was Bohm and I don't regret it for a first ring.
Listened to it the most, but found a flaw (hopefully a newer release has ironed it out). Part of the draw of the Ring cycle was that it's one of the few works including a contra-bass trombone, which didn't disappoint. I had access to Dover scores of the Ring, so was a little surprised to hear silence from the bass clarinet for the entire cycle. The bass clarinet is noticeable in his Tristan recording, maybe made the same year. Switched temporarily to the Boulez recording and was able to hear the the bass clarinet part that way.
I have just started listening and viewing the Opera North staged concert performance, courtesy BBC, 2017, via TH-cam - I have some reasonable quality Audioengine speakers, and my ears at age 75 are too old to worry about hifi frequencies above 8k. . I've never heard any of the Ring Cycle previously, so as to the quality of the singing and orchestra compared to the CDs boxes discussed, I am not qualified to comment, but as a gentle introduction to the music with subtitles and no distracting "stage business", just some appropriate and imaginative visual effects, I shall see how things go. I see that the English National Opera are undertaking a new Ring Cycle, which I presume will be sung in English. As I live in NZ, I'm unlikely to be able to see this in person, but I hope that the Cycle will be recorded.
I feel privileged to have actually known an interpreter of one of those essential roles so crucial to the complete Wagner Experience: I have loved the Solti Ring since those distant days when the individual operas were first being released, each of which was a revelation to those of us beginning to get hooked on Wagner, and had access only to a small handful of earlier complete performances (the Furtwangler studio Walkure and the Norwegian Gotterdammerung with Flagstad are the ones I recall). Years later I was hired by Marilyn Tyler, head of opera studies at U. of New Mexico and former lyric soprano, to join the performing faculty of a new summer opera program she was spearheading (I use the word advisedly) in Rome. Even more years later, I happened to glance one day at the cast list of the Solti Walkure and realized that she had been one of those singers, doing ( guess which role) Grimgerde, of course!
A few favorite moments from the Solti ring which I've ever heard bettered:
Rheingold: The shrieks of the Nibelungs, Donner's Hammer Flagstad in "Wotan, Gemahl' Neidlinger in Alberich's curse
Siegfried: Roland Berger's dragon-summoning horn solo in Act 2
Gotterdammerung: Gottlob Frick's pitch-black Hagen, my favorite interpretation of a role which has been singularly fortunate on recordings.
The absolutely demented orchestra tantrum which Solti unleashes after Brunhilde's soliloquy which begins the final scene of Act 2.
Lieder specialist Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau totally losing it over the same music, during the quarrel with Hagen near the end of Act 3 ("angst und unheil greife dich immer!)
Any time la Nilsson uncorks her top B or C.
Sounds right to me! Thanks for sharing your experience with Grimgerde!
I just found your channel. SO grateful that you do this. It is clear that you would have made an excellent conductor if you had chosen that path. However we NEED critics who themselves are artists, which you clearly are. I have already started telling my classical music friends about your channel and they're hooked. We've spent the last few days sharing/discussing your video. Thank you for doing this!
Welcome aboard! Thanks very much!
I kind of thought Solti would be left for the end. I am awaiting the Solti/London Box which should be here next Friday. Will you review it also?
What do you think?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I pre-ordered it. While I like Chicago/Solti recordings with regard to overall orchestral sound, IMHO, at times, the brass of Chicago can be a bit too much. With certain repertoire, London's brass would be more suitable. For example, the Elgar works.
The Membran release of the Rome Furtwangler sounds OK to me - at least no worse than others from that era. But the Milan one is probably beyond hope - only worth dipping into to sample Flagstad's Brunnhilde.
I will now date myself and say that when I was finally able to purchase my first Ring cycle, there was Solti and there was Karajan (brand new) - and that was it. The general opinion among my music student peers was that Solti had the better singers, but that Karajan had worked magic with the orchestra. Choose your poison! I took Karajan at the time, but later got Solti and others (including Böhm).
Sorry to say this, but I cannot share your opinion about Barenboim. I have heard him conduct a number of times with various orchestras and was at the Staatsoper Berlin for his Ring (soon after his Bayreuth Ring). For whatever reason, he leaves me absolutely cold whatever he conducts. So if he‘s conducting, I don‘t go. Chacon à son goût, as a relatively famous person in a relatively famous opera/operetta has been known to sing.
I remember when Solti and Böhm came out on CD. Bought them - and bought many others after that. Always thinking with the later ones "not quite...".
Who conducted the Anna Russell version?
BTW you should do a vid on the best opera composed by an 11 yr old. What do you think?
If I had to choose two sets, it would be Keilberth and Solti.
Daniel Barenboim's 1992 Bayreuth Laser Ring on DVD is my favourite recording. Sounds incredible, with a fantastic cast, especially Anne Evans as Brunhilde. Sotli's Ring has that 1950s Alfred Hitchcock movie music sound which I find off putting and I don't like the addition of the sound effects. Also Hans Hoffer sounds like he has a cold and they should have stuck with George London from Rheingold.
I believe the steerhorns in Hagen's call to the vassals were made specially for the recording.
I'm a Furtwangler fanatic but I refuse to listen to his Ring Cycle and live Bruckner recordings because the sound is just atrocious. I wish he had been born 30 years later because then at least he might have left us with recordings in decent stereo. With that said, his Beethoven is sublime and his studio recording of the Schumann 4th is electrifying. Sorry for getting off topic. Vickers and Janowitz are a match made in heaven in Karajan's Die Walkure recording. Thanks for another great talk!
I agree with the Furtwängler sound. One has to keep concentration high in order to listen to his Rings. But while the La Scala Ring is just inaudible, the Rome Ring is in fact not so terrible, still on the bad side of course. It is s pity, he is such a wonderful Wagner conductor, but his legacy is limited to this. But had he been born 30 years later he would have been a totally different conductor. It is rather fair to say: why didn't he live another 20 years? Toscanini kept conducting superbly until he was 85, Stokowsky until 90, Walter and Klemperer 87 or 88 ...
Furtwängler did only one brilliant live recording at Bayreuth and it was Beethoven’s Ninth of all things!
@@luciodemeio1 Listen to his Die Walkure with the Vienna Philharmonic recorded in the mid 50s.
@@luciodemeio1 I believe it was pneumonia that did him in when he was 68.
@@edwinbelete76 He was very careless about his own health. Few weeks before dying he had sore throat and cough; in these conditions he ... went for walks in a fog !!! No wonder he developed pneumonia and, with no antibiotics available yet in those days, he died of it. They tried to save him with a blood transfusion in Baden-Baden, but with no avail.
I think you're spot on here - with Solti or Böhm (my personal favourite simply because it's so exciting) it's pretty much a done deal. There's one other that I very much enjoy and which you didn't mention: Sawallisch and the Bavarian State Opera live on EMI (it's still around second-hand). Well worth a spin and conducted in an admirably Böhm-like way. Glad you didn't spend any time on the how-slow-can-you-go school of Ring conducting - step forward the Knappertsbusch cultists. One other that has some good moments is Haitink's EMI Ring (some very nice orch playing too), even if he doesn't have the dramatic drive of Böhm, Solti or Sawallisch, or the imagination of Barenboim. Anyhow, a great video. Thanks for it.
I'm fond of the Sawallisch EMI Ring. It's not in my top tier, but Sawallisch is always reliable, and he had a fine cast at his disposal. Hildegard Behrens as Brünnhilde might not be to everyone's taste, but I always liked her as a vocal actress, and she's her usual committed self here.
Boooooo ! 😉 Go (slow) Kna !
I'm enjoying this video and discussion in many ways, but especially welcome is that pulling out my historical recordings (Clemens Krauss and a Knappertsbusch Gotterdammerung) and sampling them made me realize I can get rid of them and gain significant space on my shelf. Sure, it's nice to hear that Astrid Varnay had a great voice, but the sonics make for very bad listening. And if Furtwangler's sonics don't even make the cut here, I can't imagine what that must sound like. So, with Solti, Karajan, Janowski and Barenboim, I now have room for Bohm and von Zweden. How do you say "Enough!" in German?
Genug!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Danke!
Just listening to the van Zweden Die Walker. Its a belter! Great singing and characterisation plus a wonderful flowing accompaniment from Van Zweden and the HKPO.
The Van Zweden Ring is superb for a newer recording.
I pick out parts of Solti's and Karajan's recordings. For Die Walkure, there is HVK's with Jon Vickers' glorious Sigmund and Janowitz' Sieglinde - gorgeously sung and acted, plus the loveliest Magic Fire music. For Siegfried, I turn to Solti because he captures the darkness of the opera, contrasted with a luminous final scene before and after Siegfried has woken up Brunnhilde. Also, Windgassen is superb at conveying the heroid moron that is Siegfried. For Gotterdamerung, again I go with Solti, again because he captures the dramatic and the lyrical wonderfully. Solti's inimitable intensity is very well suited for The Ring. Honorable mention: Bohm's Ring is very exciting and well worth a listen. Rysanek's famous scream when Sigmund pulls out the sword is fantastic.
My Ring recordings go back to the 1930’s Potted ring on HMV Black Label, ( Pearl reissue on CD and Original 78 rpm-records)the conducting being shared between Albert Coates, Leo Blech, and Heger? The La Scala Ring is ok if you get a cleaned up version of it. It has more fire than the Rome Ring. As far as “Modern” Cycles are concerned I’ve always had a great love for the 1966 Bohm Cycle ( I’ve owned this on Vinyl and now have it on CD) I prefer the Solti Cycle to the Karajan Cycle. I also rather like the ENO recording in English under Goodall. I’m a great Rita Hunter fan.
What a pity you wouldn't give us your favourite and the objective best 2nd Norn ... so disappointing! 🤣
My three rings are historical recordings from the 1950s. Furtwängler and La Scala, which is the weakest of the three. Keilberth 1953, released by The Intense Media at a very low price. It features Hans Hotter, Martha Mödl and Wolfgang Windgassen, among others. One of my best value for money buys ever. And the 1956 Bayreuth conducted by Hans Knappertsbusch, about the finest you can get, with Hotter, Varnay and Windsgassen.
I'll have to add more to my collection, provided the price is within reach.
Great singing and great conducting and great sound? For me, it would be Barenboim/Kupfer. But I must hasten to add that I have listened to very few complete cycles. As such, my opinion is very biased and limited (I am not a completist at all where Wagner is concerned - I own just Das Rheingold from Karajan's Ring, which I find wonderful), and therefore I am happy to sample recommendations. I also listen with pleasure to Marek Janowski (Wotan is a letdown for me here), and also, even, Goodall, even though the latter does not have the greatest sound, to my ears. Last but not least, Solti's Ring. I have it on Blu-ray audio, which sounds just stunning (even though my stereo system is not really 'high-end', it is quite adequate, and I do hear a big difference, which does add to the enjoyment).
Hello, big fan! Is it my laptop or is your video "jiggling" every few seconds? Not seeing it on other youtubes
Looks like it jiggles--thanks for telling me. I'll try too look into it (although I have no idea how this stuff works)!
A question, if you don't mind: there have been true miracles achieved with remastering; think of Toscanini's Beethoven 7th with the NYP (1937 !!) or Furtwängler's 1952 Eroica and 1947 Beethoven 5th, but there are many more out there. Why something of that level cannot be reached with Furtwängler's Ring (either of them)?
Because the sound simply sucks. Miracles can be achieved if there is good sound that can be brought out using the right source material and the right technology; but if it's not there to begin with, there is nothing you can do. Regarding Furt's Rings, I don't know what's really there, but so far no one's managed to dig up any buried treasure.
Thank you for this. Any suggestions for DVD sets, with subtitles?
No, sorry. I don't watch DVDs generally, but if you look at the comments you will see several useful discussions of them and I'm sure others will chime in!
I think the Barenboim/Kupfer dvd is fabulous, I really like Kupfer's production and Barenboim conducts the living daylights out of the work as David said
@@simontoussaint7555 Thank you very much!!
if you compare the stories of these operas to the stories of the Dvorak Symphonic Poems they are no more outlandish. Yet it seems like people are much more willing to deal with the opera stories in practical terms than the Symphonic Poems. Magic powers, curses, strange creatures living underwater etc. are ell there!
I have the complete Solti set on vinyl now...I change the LPs more often than my underwear. Ummm......yeah. But there is something special and amazing about this recording on vinyl.
Same here!🤣
What are the best Ring recordings with Flagstad ? As a lead or lesser character?
There’s a complete Götterdämmerung that she recorded with the Oslo Philharmonic with Ølvin Fjelstadt conducting, and Set Savnholm singing Siegfried. Its mono sound, but for the moments you want to hear Flagstad sing, it serves its purpose.
Svanholm is one of the best recorded Siegfrieds, so its worth hearing for him as well.
Dave, what do you think about Levine's and Haitink's Ring cycles?
I don't need either.
While not Ring related, I read about a Wagnerian insult which is, " May you be stuck in a performance of Parsifal.... without a sandwich!".
What are the studio recordings of the Ring Cycle?
YOU DID IT!
You whittled away the dross, gave some mention to the kaleidoscope of those 'other' concerns/factions/cults, and kept it to the work, the singers, orchestras, conductors and the recordings which were the result;
AND, to my great appreciation, mentioned the Leonie 'post coital scream' thing.
Live, in the house, I was a great Rysanek fan.
SF Opera did a Walküre in 1976. Rysanek, Vickers, Roberta Knie, Hans Sotin, Ruth Hesse and Clifford Grant.
I did standing room for each performance; I was more enthusiastic then.
It was a production where the mortals were the Gods. NOT to belittle the others...
but the Rysanek/Vickers element was a pretty sizzling example of 'it does not get better than this'.
At one performance, as Siegmund pulls it out and Leonie Sieglinde let's out her famous multi-layered-with-meaning-shriek, staggers backwards in awe, ecstasy and general OMGodness.....
Well, there was a tree stump coffee table in exact center stage.
It seems that Mrs. Hunding was so in the throes that she must have forgotten herself because over she went.
Backing into the coffee table, she did it with such force that what we saw was a near perfect cartwheel of legs and skirt in the air in flamboyant, wild, circular motion.
The audience did a collective gasp, heard over the orchestra, and down she went.
Thankfully she was not hurt and, stage animal that she was, she instantly came crawling into an on her knees position at said coffee table, ready for more of what ever Siegmund had to offer.
She turned that near disaster into an 'in the moment' bit of colossal proportions.
Wagner - Walküre - Sieglinde - la Rysanek !
A really fine presentation, David.
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing that epic bit of opera insanity with us!
Interesting that you mentioned Jaap von Sweden's Ring as being similar to von Karajan's. Not only did von Sweden use a lieder singer (Goerne) for Wotan, so did Karajan, with Fischer-Dieskau.
Something you might have mentioned in recommending the Solti Ring as the hands-down best choice for a first recording, is the whole Culshaw-Ring-Resounding-Stereo aspect, with every special effect following Wagner's specifications to a T: the full set of precisely tuned anvils, authentic alpenhorns, an enormous thunder machine, and on and on. Those might be non-musical factors, but as you point out, Wagner was a man of the theater, and he pulled out all the stops in The Ring.