This is good, it's very clear that you understand Dragonball for the story and characters, not just for the increasing powers and explosions. I sincerely hope this gets much exposure.
Goku and Vegeta are some of the best written characters in all of fiction and manga. Really loved how you truly understand Dragon Ball, and grateful that now i can too
Personally, love Goku has a normal, sayian nature when it comes to having a mate. Bardock and Gine we’re an exception, but he’s very much the normal Sayian. Where as Vegeta has concept of family and bloodline, because he was a royal.
@@thehausofmGine is canon and a character that Akira Toriyama created. The version of Bardock from dragonball minus is also canon. While Akira Toriyama didn't create the character of Bardock, he did make the version of Bardock from dragonball minus that was later adapted in dragonball super Broly.
For the Goku Black, it could be a symbolism of power stolen from others without the experiences or the connections would always be inferior. While for Granolah arc, it seems like a more personal version of Goku's arc in Namek but instead of Goku only honoring the Saiyans as a collective, now he's honoring his father, his flesh and blood
I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head with that theory, I mean Vegeta made it pretty clear when talking to Black why he was inferior to Goku and thereby no match for Vegeta himself. And it was the fact that he stole Goku's body without having experienced firsthand the trials and tribulations said body has gone through.
A great character analysis of Goku's character. Although, I don't agree with the assessment that Goku wanted to fight Frieza again after the battle on Namek. Goku hated Frieza during that time, particularly after becoming a super saiyan, and made it clear that he never wanted to fight Frieza again after their fight on Namek, regardless of any updates from dragonball super. Ultimately while fighting is an important aspect of who Goku is, there's more to Goku than that, and I am glad that this analysis touches upon that.
@@thebilby602 I don't even know where people saw that Goku let Freeza live just to fight him again. I wonder if they even read the manga. Goku let Frieza live because he doesn't like to kill people and because he wanted to shatter Frieza's pride by overpowering him and letting him live with the shame of having been beaten by a ''monkey''. Goku wanted to humiliate and show the feeling of fear to Freeza. After that, he stopped the fight and he thought that there was no point in continuing. Goku NEVER expressed a desire of having a rematch with Freeza. On the contrary, he said that he doesn't want to ever meet Freeza again. The actual quotes of Goku from the manga : ''Now that you know what fear feels like, there no sense in defeating you. Go and live with the shame. Go find a hole to cower in.'' ''Don't cause any trouble anymore...and don't let me EVER see you again.''
@@SlimySlatt You're right. It's one of Goku's moments of reading someone wrong, in my opinion- If he felt Frieza would retaliate I doubt he'd have any doubts about killing him
The only point i disagree is the Gero one: gero isn't innocent he was in red ribbon. That was the first sign of goku saying "i want to fight more than anything", vegeta got spared also because of his heritage and frieza got neutralized when goku decided to spare him he wasn't a threat, he was vastly inferior and got mutilated on top of that, indeed that's why he decided to stay dead, he sees himself as active threat and caused indirectly the death of thousands because he knew what would happen
This is without a doubt, a thorough and well put "Analysis" in every sense of the word. Well analysed, analyser. Never stop the madness and go Kaioken x20
Goku wants to be the hardest strongest broken anime character in existences of dragon ball super and his true powers to protect his true friends and family
Ima be real-I wasn’t sure how much I wanted to let you cook, when mentioning saiyans as part of Goku’s characterization in the dragonball era. It is somewhat strange, especially given the mention about beerus and frieza as retroactive. But! It’s clear that you understand the character and characters. Your narration is smooth in the fullest sense of the word. Even handed verbalization and script construction that never wants for breath- not by virtue of being fast but by being so tightly written it’s really difficult to want to stop or pick at a sentence or take. It’s really a complete and lovely analysis.
Thanks man, I only take his nature into consideration when talking OG dragonball since by author statements we know he at least had an ex terrestrial idea from the piccolo saga onwards, which if you notice is when we first see the image of ozaru behind his fist, and plus he always had a non human origin even if it originally was something more akin to the sun wukung legends being born from an egg or just a weird ape boy so I at least believe that his nature being different to everyone else was always a point in Toriyamas mind but that might just be, plus Super came decades afterwards and we don’t even know is Toriyama himself wrote that bit about Beerus and Freiza since it could be Toyotaro, All that aside, so happy you enjoyed the video, thanks for giving me an hour of your time and watching to the end
Great video but I think once you get to Super you somewhat miss the mark a few times but the general idea is spot on. For example, I don't think you give Goku during the Moro arc enough credit(likely due to only reading the arc just the one time as it slowly released month to month). Goku gives Moro a senzu as a test. Because he's very aware that he can beat him regardless at this point. It isn't the same as Buu or Zamasu where no options were left because Goku was still in complete control of the fight. Giving Moro a senzu here is a test to make sure he is someone that absolutely must be killed to be stopped. Moro of course fails this test instantly and is promptly beaten again. Goku then asks him if he has ever trained and Moro answers that he has not. Goku is disappointed by this knowing that he will never get to fight Moro at his absolute best because he is much too dangerous to be allowed to go free. Already knowing that he will have to kill him, Goku can't help but give him one last chance to return to prison quietly or be killed. Note that allowing him to go free is NOT an option here. Moro then again proves that he is too dangerous to be kept alive leaving absolutely no doubt about it and that is when Goku kills him. Goku does all this despite the fact that Merus(who he has come to care about greatly over the course of this arc) just vanished from existence because of Moro. I think this says a lot about how far he has come not only since those early days in Dragon Ball when he killed King Piccolo after the deaths of people he cares about, but also since he fought Freeza on Namek. Because allowing Moro to go free was not an option despite how disappointed he was that he would never be able to fight a Moro that has trained and honed himself. This arc in my opinion is the best arc to come out of the Super manga and a lot of why I feel that way is specifically for what it did with Goku. The anime's version of the tournament of power is still my favorite Super arc overall though as of right now. And one last thing. What Goku says in Super Hero does not imply that he doesn't know what meditation is. Goku is questioning the fact that it is ALL Vegeta's been doing for long enough that he thinks he may get weaker if he doesn't move his body and physically train as well. Doing nothing but meditating being effective training is what Goku is doubting here, not the act of meditation itself. That said I feel this scene is the result of this dynamic they're kinda forcing between Goku and Vegeta where Goku's the slower one to figure things out with the reasoning being because he's dumb and I am not a fan of it. Just feel the need to clarify that because I feel this has been misinterpreted by a lot of people.
That's what I love about this whole thing. Goku doesn't knows he not going to fight moro again it's either be killed right now or slowly rot in solitary confinement for a thousand years until you die of old age
Fantastic analysis brother, you understand gokus character and Akira Toriyamas intentions with Gokus character very well, hope to see your vegeta analysis soon!
This is Phenomenal. The only tidbit ur off on is the Buu Arc. Goku was the Strongest. Just bcuz he is the Strongest, he was never above seeking help when needed. Vegeta offered the perfect solution. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
What the fuck else was goku supposed to do in the cell saga no one was strong enough to beat cell. Like is everyone supposed to die because gohan restricts his own strength? Lol
different writers I guess. GT after all was made without any output from Toriyama. And although Super was it'd been years since he'd ended the manga so must have had new ideas for how to take his character
Actually in the anime scaling their is a argument to be made that kid buu is the strongest majin as the narrator and goku himself states kid buu is on a different level then all the previous buus which includes the ones gotenks and Gohan fought and kid buu overpowers the spirit bomb which has all the z fighters energy combined with the earth and universe. From a powerscaling sense I would call kid buu potentially the second strongest character in the buu saga only being outdone by vegito but being stronger then gotenks,goku who he was toying with,and Gohan from mutiple statements both in and out of universe about kid buu being the strongest. I think the manga is a different story but the anime version definitely has a lot of arguments being in kid buu favor. I think videos like this get my point across more clearly th-cam.com/video/9GJJRLTm1lA/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared th-cam.com/video/G7HXFEnoID0/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared th-cam.com/video/_0BrnLBh3Mk/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
I have heard this argument before and I really disagree, in the manga which is the first and canon story there is not a single argument to him being stronger than any other form but fat Buu/Mr Buu, as well Buu gains power reflective of the people he absorbs so of course he loses power when he loses all the people he'd absorbed that's basic common sense, also Goku states he could of beat Fat buu in SJJ3, but that he'd not stand a chance against Super buu, yet then goes on to say if he goes full power he thinks he can beat kid buu, meaning Goku himself is saying super buu is a lot stronger than Kid buu, even if we use the anime this makes even less sense since Goku fights kid buu in regular old SSJ and doesn't immediately die even though as said he needed SSJ3 to beat the weaker Fat Buu (in the manga he doesn't fight in SSJ because he knows he would instantly lose), and well the lines about him being the strongest buu are mistranslations, the original japense doesn't say anything of the sorts so not even the anime supports this, also the spirit bomb argument is also flawed since that's a misunderstanding of how the spirit bomb operates, it didn't take the ki of the z fighters it took their genki, genki is different from ki, so just because you are strong doesn't mean you give more genki so the spirt bomb being pushed back by kid buu doesn't tell us anything about how strong the people giving their genki is, I mean think about it any one of the z fighters could give more ki than the whole of earth so why did they need everyone on earth to give their genki, that just not how the spirit bomb works, also Kid buu doesn't even push it back its explained that Goku is struggling to release the energy so no buu isn't resisting Goku is just struggling to use the attack properly, There just isn't any argument for Kid buu being stronger and even if there was it would be outweighed by the multiple arguments saying he isn't, here are some other points I didn't have time to cover in this reply www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6xvhls/i_dont_get_how_super_buu_is_stronger_than_kid_buu/ th-cam.com/video/7Snb6ukEuv8/w-d-xo.html www.quora.com/Which-Buu-is-stronger-Kid-Buu-or-Super-Buu-Gohan-Absorbed
@SephTheSin it depends on which continuity you use as the Anime upright has its own canon and different scaling, then manga with its own separate statements and feats. I did preference earlier that the manga is different. I was simply saying the anime version of the characters would be stronger. I agree with the manga verisons of Gohan for the most part not counting vegito being stronger then goku and kid buu (Though a argument can be made for the manga but I'm not going to debate that). It basically goes like this Anime Kid buu>Goku>Vegeta>Gohan>Gotenks and the manga it goes like Gohan>Gotenks>Kid buu>Goku>Vegeta I will say the buu arc scaling is not as black and white like in the manga but in the anime specifically yes I will say kid buu in just waaaay stronger then his manga counterpart. This is pretty consistent throughout most of dragonball when it comes to Z and later Super of the anime upright having better feats than the manga. People really don't get how huge of the difference between the anime and manga scaling for the various arcs throughout the dragonball anime. I'll end this by saying if you just use the manga and completely ignore the anime, then I can see the argument for having kid buu waaaay weaker then where I scale him but just not the anime version. you're free to disagree but that's my stance on the matter anime stronger manga weaker.
Yes the two have different scaling but the anime also suggests kid buu is weaker, what evidence is there for him to be stronger than super buu? As there doesn't seem to be any at all, the statements by Goku or the narrator that he is stronger are MISTAKES since they are not in the original Japan and only in the dub, hence they are an error and can't be used as evidence unless your suggesting the english dub is a separate canon to the rest of the anime which is pretty insane, the spirit bomb works the same in the anime as it does in the manga so that's not evidence either, goku in the anime says he doesn't stand a chance against super buu yet also in the anime goes to fight kid buu and holds his own for a bit, which would make no sense, if kid buu was stronger than super buu then why can Goku fight him somewhat evenly yet admits both he and Vegeta even working together would be no match for Super buu, unless there is another piece of evidence I don't know about everything in the anime also points to him being weaker, this video here proves this in 5 minutes, th-cam.com/video/0mkqZc_p2-0/w-d-xo.html there is not a single piece of evidence for this idea that kid buu is stronger, because it makes literally no sense either lore wise or by how the story is written
What the hell are you going on about. This debate has been over for years at this point. Even one of the animes screenwriters came out and said that even in the anime Super Buu with gohan absorbed was the strongest buu form, its just down right stupid to think pure buu is stronger. Goku was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting Super Buu but he was going head to head with Pure buu. You didn't even need to use statements, logic or common sense you can just watch the pretty pictures and you'd see pure buu is in no universe anywhere close to Super buu in strength
@SephTheSin When inside super buu goku was literally smaller then a ant and your power is relative to your size from what I remember and goku didn't know he or vegeta would be able to return to normal which is why he suggested fusion and as just super saiyans held their own with their biggest disadvantage being they were fighting inside super buu. You can also make the argument both goku and vegeta just got stronger as the fights continue through Zenkais. The kidbuu vs buuhan video I link went into more details and the counter arguments you brought up. Also, in the subbed verison of kai, he literally said he's on a completely different level than all the previous buus. I just now rewatched it. Kid buu is also implied to be toying with goku not taking him seriously throughout the fight . I'm not going to continue to argue backforth on this since all I'm saying is their is a argument to be made for kid buu in the anime. I'll end this off by saying agree to disagree. Also solid video by the way despite any disagree I might have otherwise
Just started watching and I'm 10 minutes in. This is a very good video and I'm learning quite a few things I never thought about. But you should stop saying "This idea pops up in this saga but we will talk about it later", you say it constantly and it's redundant to do so. It would be better if you referred back when you get to the saga and only mention something like this once or twice, since it's breaking the pacing otherwise.
isn't it just a retention thing. Like how you need a hook at the start of the video you need to keep teasing future parts of the video to keep people watching to get to that part. TH-cam has become so dictated by algorithms and retention stats that I guess smaller channels need to do everything they can to keep retention up so the videos perform well, just my two sense but I guess that's why
This is why prefer Vegeta, not Goku. Although, Goku is a Symbol of Hope and Good. Vegeta is exactly not that. Vegeta never cared for the Thrill of the Fight much. He just wanted to win no matter what. Never giving up in the process. Tho Goku shares this trait. But Vegeta just has the wits about him too. Goku, to me just is a dumb Brute sometimes. Sry.
Although I agree with most of things you said. I will say this we can try to say super Goku is just more chill and not dumb and makes excuses but no, he's a dumbass. Forgeting the pin to seal zamasu, apparently never kissing chi chi, not knowing about meditation (super super hero movie), etc. Super is not the best continuation of the idea you're potraying. But, the orginal and Z I agree with! --------------- Side note the god form can be achieved through training that's how vegeta got it. Edit: I see you made some of the same points lol
Him not kissing Chichi doesn't seem like it's solely on him. Even in Dragon Ball, it's consistent that he isn't the best with love and human emotions like that, so it would make sense that he wasn't familiar with things like kissing. Now, the fact that Chichi never told him about this is a bit weird.
i think the joke in Super about Goku not kissing chichi is actually something lost in translation. Goku was more likely talking about Trunks giving a senzu bean mouth to mouth. and vegeta thinking Goku is referring to the Act of kissing. so the joke is Goku and Vegeta are talking about different things. due to how the japanese language works.
Great video, great analysis, only issue is you used the FAR worse version of the Beerus Slapping Bulma scene. The movie had better delivery and the actual line was better too lol. "How... DARE YOU!!! THAT'S MY BULMAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
This is good, it's very clear that you understand Dragonball for the story and characters, not just for the increasing powers and explosions. I sincerely hope this gets much exposure.
Thanks, glad you appreciated the video
Goku, isn't just a character. He's a symbol, for everything human. A true representative of what it means to, live a meaningful and worthwhile life.
Idk annoy the human part but ok
"Human" yeah right
An alien being a symbol for everything human is great. Even being a parent he’s a Saiyan in how he forgot about pan
Goku and Vegeta are some of the best written characters in all of fiction and manga.
Really loved how you truly understand Dragon Ball, and grateful that now i can too
Personally, love Goku has a normal, sayian nature when it comes to having a mate. Bardock and Gine we’re an exception, but he’s very much the normal Sayian. Where as Vegeta has concept of family and bloodline, because he was a royal.
Gine not canon and neither is that soft version of bardok
@@thehausofmnah they’re canon. Cope
@@thehausofmGine is canon and a character that Akira Toriyama created. The version of Bardock from dragonball minus is also canon. While Akira Toriyama didn't create the character of Bardock, he did make the version of Bardock from dragonball minus that was later adapted in dragonball super Broly.
@@thehausofm So DB Minus, DBS Broly, and the DBS Manga aren't cannon?
@@thehausofm they are. Good or not.
"that's why he's the GoAt the GOATTT"
GOATKU
For the Goku Black, it could be a symbolism of power stolen from others without the experiences or the connections would always be inferior. While for Granolah arc, it seems like a more personal version of Goku's arc in Namek but instead of Goku only honoring the Saiyans as a collective, now he's honoring his father, his flesh and blood
I like that. I think you might be right.
I'm pretty sure you hit the nail on the head with that theory, I mean Vegeta made it pretty clear when talking to Black why he was inferior to Goku and thereby no match for Vegeta himself. And it was the fact that he stole Goku's body without having experienced firsthand the trials and tribulations said body has gone through.
This was actually a very good take on Goku, the connection you made with super now makes better sense. Well done
Thanks glad you enjoyed
A great character analysis of Goku's character. Although, I don't agree with the assessment that Goku wanted to fight Frieza again after the battle on Namek. Goku hated Frieza during that time, particularly after becoming a super saiyan, and made it clear that he never wanted to fight Frieza again after their fight on Namek, regardless of any updates from dragonball super. Ultimately while fighting is an important aspect of who Goku is, there's more to Goku than that, and I am glad that this analysis touches upon that.
Why did he want to spare Frieza then? Just because he knew Frieza wouldn't be able to do anything to him?
@@thebilby602 I don't even know where people saw that Goku let Freeza live just to fight him again. I wonder if they even read the manga. Goku let Frieza live because he doesn't like to kill people and because he wanted to shatter Frieza's pride by overpowering him and letting him live with the shame of having been beaten by a ''monkey''.
Goku wanted to humiliate and show the feeling of fear to Freeza. After that, he stopped the fight and he thought that there was no point in continuing.
Goku NEVER expressed a desire of having a rematch with Freeza.
On the contrary, he said that he doesn't want to ever meet Freeza again.
The actual quotes of Goku from the manga :
''Now that you know what fear feels like, there no sense in defeating you. Go and live with the shame. Go find a hole to cower in.''
''Don't cause any trouble anymore...and don't let me EVER see you again.''
@@SlimySlatt You're right. It's one of Goku's moments of reading someone wrong, in my opinion- If he felt Frieza would retaliate I doubt he'd have any doubts about killing him
The only point i disagree is the Gero one: gero isn't innocent he was in red ribbon. That was the first sign of goku saying "i want to fight more than anything", vegeta got spared also because of his heritage and frieza got neutralized when goku decided to spare him he wasn't a threat, he was vastly inferior and got mutilated on top of that, indeed that's why he decided to stay dead, he sees himself as active threat and caused indirectly the death of thousands because he knew what would happen
This is without a doubt, a thorough and well put "Analysis" in every sense of the word. Well analysed, analyser. Never stop the madness and go Kaioken x20
Goku wants to be the hardest strongest broken anime character in existences of dragon ball super and his true powers to protect his true friends and family
Goku is actually a well developed and very consistent character.
Ima be real-I wasn’t sure how much I wanted to let you cook, when mentioning saiyans as part of Goku’s characterization in the dragonball era.
It is somewhat strange, especially given the mention about beerus and frieza as retroactive.
But! It’s clear that you understand the character and characters. Your narration is smooth in the fullest sense of the word. Even handed verbalization and script construction that never wants for breath- not by virtue of being fast but by being so tightly written it’s really difficult to want to stop or pick at a sentence or take.
It’s really a complete and lovely analysis.
Thanks man, I only take his nature into consideration when talking OG dragonball since by author statements we know he at least had an ex terrestrial idea from the piccolo saga onwards, which if you notice is when we first see the image of ozaru behind his fist, and plus he always had a non human origin even if it originally was something more akin to the sun wukung legends being born from an egg or just a weird ape boy so I at least believe that his nature being different to everyone else was always a point in Toriyamas mind but that might just be, plus Super came decades afterwards and we don’t even know is Toriyama himself wrote that bit about Beerus and Freiza since it could be Toyotaro,
All that aside, so happy you enjoyed the video, thanks for giving me an hour of your time and watching to the end
@@SephTheSin Huh! You learn something new when you pause and listen to folk! Let that be a lesson to me. Love that. Keep it up. 😄
"The person that changed Goku the most"
Me: Emperor Pilaf
"The Turtle hermit himself"
Me: oh
Great video but I think once you get to Super you somewhat miss the mark a few times but the general idea is spot on. For example, I don't think you give Goku during the Moro arc enough credit(likely due to only reading the arc just the one time as it slowly released month to month).
Goku gives Moro a senzu as a test. Because he's very aware that he can beat him regardless at this point. It isn't the same as Buu or Zamasu where no options were left because Goku was still in complete control of the fight. Giving Moro a senzu here is a test to make sure he is someone that absolutely must be killed to be stopped. Moro of course fails this test instantly and is promptly beaten again. Goku then asks him if he has ever trained and Moro answers that he has not. Goku is disappointed by this knowing that he will never get to fight Moro at his absolute best because he is much too dangerous to be allowed to go free. Already knowing that he will have to kill him, Goku can't help but give him one last chance to return to prison quietly or be killed. Note that allowing him to go free is NOT an option here. Moro then again proves that he is too dangerous to be kept alive leaving absolutely no doubt about it and that is when Goku kills him.
Goku does all this despite the fact that Merus(who he has come to care about greatly over the course of this arc) just vanished from existence because of Moro. I think this says a lot about how far he has come not only since those early days in Dragon Ball when he killed King Piccolo after the deaths of people he cares about, but also since he fought Freeza on Namek. Because allowing Moro to go free was not an option despite how disappointed he was that he would never be able to fight a Moro that has trained and honed himself.
This arc in my opinion is the best arc to come out of the Super manga and a lot of why I feel that way is specifically for what it did with Goku. The anime's version of the tournament of power is still my favorite Super arc overall though as of right now.
And one last thing.
What Goku says in Super Hero does not imply that he doesn't know what meditation is. Goku is questioning the fact that it is ALL Vegeta's been doing for long enough that he thinks he may get weaker if he doesn't move his body and physically train as well. Doing nothing but meditating being effective training is what Goku is doubting here, not the act of meditation itself. That said I feel this scene is the result of this dynamic they're kinda forcing between Goku and Vegeta where Goku's the slower one to figure things out with the reasoning being because he's dumb and I am not a fan of it. Just feel the need to clarify that because I feel this has been misinterpreted by a lot of people.
Oh I completely agree
That's what I love about this whole thing. Goku doesn't knows he not going to fight moro again it's either be killed right now or slowly rot in solitary confinement for a thousand years until you die of old age
Fantastic analysis brother, you understand gokus character and Akira Toriyamas intentions with Gokus character very well, hope to see your vegeta analysis soon!
Great video I feel like people keep thinking goku is just a fighting fanatic rather than a symbol of peacr
Doesn't the video literally go over how Goku learns he shouldn't be a symbol of peace and instead rely on others and power of connections
Phenomenal breakdown❤
Thanks glad you enjoyed
@@SephTheSin good job! it goes to show that you understand goku as a charcter. Goku is a fantastic written character but people don’t see that.
This is Phenomenal. The only tidbit ur off on is the Buu Arc. Goku was the Strongest. Just bcuz he is the Strongest, he was never above seeking help when needed. Vegeta offered the perfect solution. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
What the fuck else was goku supposed to do in the cell saga no one was strong enough to beat cell. Like is everyone supposed to die because gohan restricts his own strength? Lol
when i was younger i couldnt understand why all the saiyans didnt power up to max and attack cell at once. especially while in his second form
Is this the guy KJM was talking about?
Cause KJM put a non working link and the name Sephtheartist which is a dead channel.
KJM sent me here and boy do I love your breakdown
Feels like there are different gokus from GT, super, and Z
different writers I guess. GT after all was made without any output from Toriyama. And although Super was it'd been years since he'd ended the manga so must have had new ideas for how to take his character
Great video
Sick, saving to my watch later thanks
Hope you enjoy it when you get round to it man
Actually in the anime scaling their is a argument to be made that kid buu is the strongest majin as the narrator and goku himself states kid buu is on a different level then all the previous buus which includes the ones gotenks and Gohan fought and kid buu overpowers the spirit bomb which has all the z fighters energy combined with the earth and universe. From a powerscaling sense I would call kid buu potentially the second strongest character in the buu saga only being outdone by vegito but being stronger then gotenks,goku who he was toying with,and Gohan from mutiple statements both in and out of universe about kid buu being the strongest.
I think the manga is a different story but the anime version definitely has a lot of arguments being in kid buu favor.
I think videos like this get my point across more clearly
th-cam.com/video/9GJJRLTm1lA/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
th-cam.com/video/G7HXFEnoID0/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
th-cam.com/video/_0BrnLBh3Mk/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
I have heard this argument before and I really disagree, in the manga which is the first and canon story there is not a single argument to him being stronger than any other form but fat Buu/Mr Buu, as well Buu gains power reflective of the people he absorbs so of course he loses power when he loses all the people he'd absorbed that's basic common sense, also Goku states he could of beat Fat buu in SJJ3, but that he'd not stand a chance against Super buu, yet then goes on to say if he goes full power he thinks he can beat kid buu, meaning Goku himself is saying super buu is a lot stronger than Kid buu, even if we use the anime this makes even less sense since Goku fights kid buu in regular old SSJ and doesn't immediately die even though as said he needed SSJ3 to beat the weaker Fat Buu (in the manga he doesn't fight in SSJ because he knows he would instantly lose), and well the lines about him being the strongest buu are mistranslations, the original japense doesn't say anything of the sorts so not even the anime supports this, also the spirit bomb argument is also flawed since that's a misunderstanding of how the spirit bomb operates, it didn't take the ki of the z fighters it took their genki, genki is different from ki, so just because you are strong doesn't mean you give more genki so the spirt bomb being pushed back by kid buu doesn't tell us anything about how strong the people giving their genki is, I mean think about it any one of the z fighters could give more ki than the whole of earth so why did they need everyone on earth to give their genki, that just not how the spirit bomb works, also Kid buu doesn't even push it back its explained that Goku is struggling to release the energy so no buu isn't resisting Goku is just struggling to use the attack properly,
There just isn't any argument for Kid buu being stronger and even if there was it would be outweighed by the multiple arguments saying he isn't,
here are some other points I didn't have time to cover in this reply
www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/6xvhls/i_dont_get_how_super_buu_is_stronger_than_kid_buu/
th-cam.com/video/7Snb6ukEuv8/w-d-xo.html
www.quora.com/Which-Buu-is-stronger-Kid-Buu-or-Super-Buu-Gohan-Absorbed
@SephTheSin it depends on which continuity you use as the Anime upright has its own canon and different scaling, then manga with its own separate statements and feats. I did preference earlier that the manga is different. I was simply saying the anime version of the characters would be stronger. I agree with the manga verisons of Gohan for the most part not counting vegito being stronger then goku and kid buu (Though a argument can be made for the manga but I'm not going to debate that).
It basically goes like this Anime Kid buu>Goku>Vegeta>Gohan>Gotenks
and the manga it goes like Gohan>Gotenks>Kid buu>Goku>Vegeta
I will say the buu arc scaling is not as black and white like in the manga but in the anime specifically yes I will say kid buu in just waaaay stronger then his manga counterpart. This is pretty consistent throughout most of dragonball when it comes to Z and later Super of the anime upright having better feats than the manga.
People really don't get how huge of the difference between the anime and manga scaling for the various arcs throughout the dragonball anime.
I'll end this by saying if you just use the manga and completely ignore the anime, then I can see the argument for having kid buu waaaay weaker then where I scale him but just not the anime version.
you're free to disagree but that's my stance on the matter anime stronger manga weaker.
Yes the two have different scaling but the anime also suggests kid buu is weaker, what evidence is there for him to be stronger than super buu? As there doesn't seem to be any at all, the statements by Goku or the narrator that he is stronger are MISTAKES since they are not in the original Japan and only in the dub, hence they are an error and can't be used as evidence unless your suggesting the english dub is a separate canon to the rest of the anime which is pretty insane, the spirit bomb works the same in the anime as it does in the manga so that's not evidence either, goku in the anime says he doesn't stand a chance against super buu yet also in the anime goes to fight kid buu and holds his own for a bit, which would make no sense, if kid buu was stronger than super buu then why can Goku fight him somewhat evenly yet admits both he and Vegeta even working together would be no match for Super buu, unless there is another piece of evidence I don't know about everything in the anime also points to him being weaker,
this video here proves this in 5 minutes, th-cam.com/video/0mkqZc_p2-0/w-d-xo.html
there is not a single piece of evidence for this idea that kid buu is stronger, because it makes literally no sense either lore wise or by how the story is written
What the hell are you going on about. This debate has been over for years at this point. Even one of the animes screenwriters came out and said that even in the anime Super Buu with gohan absorbed was the strongest buu form, its just down right stupid to think pure buu is stronger. Goku was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting Super Buu but he was going head to head with Pure buu. You didn't even need to use statements, logic or common sense you can just watch the pretty pictures and you'd see pure buu is in no universe anywhere close to Super buu in strength
@SephTheSin When inside super buu goku was literally smaller then a ant and your power is relative to your size from what I remember and goku didn't know he or vegeta would be able to return to normal which is why he suggested fusion and as just super saiyans held their own with their biggest disadvantage being they were fighting inside super buu. You can also make the argument both goku and vegeta just got stronger as the fights continue through Zenkais. The kidbuu vs buuhan video I link went into more details and the counter arguments you brought up. Also, in the subbed verison of kai, he literally said he's on a completely different level than all the previous buus. I just now rewatched it. Kid buu is also implied to be toying with goku not taking him seriously throughout the fight .
I'm not going to continue to argue backforth on this since all I'm saying is their is a argument to be made for kid buu in the anime.
I'll end this off by saying agree to disagree. Also solid video by the way despite any disagree I might have otherwise
holy shit this was good thank you
Glad you enjoyed
So, what ypu are saying is that goku's friends are his power?
Who else came here from KJM
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good video, but after the namek saga part the points become a lot more disagreeable imo
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Pause at 27:28
Just started watching and I'm 10 minutes in. This is a very good video and I'm learning quite a few things I never thought about.
But you should stop saying "This idea pops up in this saga but we will talk about it later", you say it constantly and it's redundant to do so. It would be better if you referred back when you get to the saga and only mention something like this once or twice, since it's breaking the pacing otherwise.
isn't it just a retention thing. Like how you need a hook at the start of the video you need to keep teasing future parts of the video to keep people watching to get to that part. TH-cam has become so dictated by algorithms and retention stats that I guess smaller channels need to do everything they can to keep retention up so the videos perform well, just my two sense but I guess that's why
Ngl now i understand why db gt fails kinda flat
This is why prefer Vegeta, not Goku. Although, Goku is a Symbol of Hope and Good. Vegeta is exactly not that. Vegeta never cared for the Thrill of the Fight much. He just wanted to win no matter what. Never giving up in the process. Tho Goku shares this trait. But Vegeta just has the wits about him too. Goku, to me just is a dumb Brute sometimes. Sry.
51:19 pause
Yo im here from kjmproductions.
Although I agree with most of things you said. I will say this we can try to say super Goku is just more chill and not dumb and makes excuses but no, he's a dumbass. Forgeting the pin to seal zamasu, apparently never kissing chi chi, not knowing about meditation (super super hero movie), etc. Super is not the best continuation of the idea you're potraying. But, the orginal and Z I agree with!
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Side note the god form can be achieved through training that's how vegeta got it.
Edit:
I see you made some of the same points lol
Him not kissing Chichi doesn't seem like it's solely on him. Even in Dragon Ball, it's consistent that he isn't the best with love and human emotions like that, so it would make sense that he wasn't familiar with things like kissing. Now, the fact that Chichi never told him about this is a bit weird.
i think the joke in Super about Goku not kissing chichi is actually something lost in translation.
Goku was more likely talking about Trunks giving a senzu bean mouth to mouth. and vegeta thinking Goku is referring to the Act of kissing.
so the joke is Goku and Vegeta are talking about different things. due to how the japanese language works.
Great video, great analysis, only issue is you used the FAR worse version of the Beerus Slapping Bulma scene. The movie had better delivery and the actual line was better too lol.
"How... DARE YOU!!! THAT'S MY BULMAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
Thanks man, that was just due to copyright I am afraid, the movie scene got copyright claimed so had to use the anime on instead