I think its entirely plausible goku had a wake up call with his heart disease. Doesnt matter how tough you are if your heart just stops anyways. Thats when his focused shifted to finding someone who can take his place as earths protector.
@@xdrastig_4207 it was Z who contradicts that not super. The whole point of the buu saga is how neither of gokus successors had what it takes to do what goku does.
@@RedMoonLoopThe buu arc is a horribly placed mess whose main villain is a literal joke for most of its arc. Not only that but it straight up robs Gohan of the main character roll he’s work for sense the first arc (hell Gohan arguably is the main character of Z). The buu arc went back on Goku’s character growth and super followed suit.
Goku during the cell games acts like a person that found out he’s going to die and is on borrowed time, accepted it and is living out his last days carrying a very casual and strangely optimistic, borderline daydreamy view. In a weird way, he’s trying to set those up around him in preparation for him not being there anymore - in this case, having Gohan take over as the protector of earth. His realization that he goofed up, i take it, is akin to him understanding that it was way too soon to adopt such backseat approach to what was going on around him
I agree with the observation, but I also wonder if Goku was considering the possibility that Cell would have to kill him for Gohan to reach his true potential. I think a part of him considered that he wasn’t going to survive the Cell Games, which ended up being true.
I think there's another reason for giving Cell the Sensu bean: Gohan never had the confidence to win and even if he beat Cell, it will always be in the back of his mind that he likely only won because his daddy roughed up Cell for him. Even if Goku tells him otherwise, that doubt will always be there and will haunt him for the rest of his life. Giving Cell the Sensu bean would erase all doubt and Gohan would never be haunted by such a burden.
I doubt gohan would care at all about that burden. He’s not a warrior he only fights so he doesn’t have to. He just wants a good life without violence.
@Starlight-je6qj this is what i lean towards. cell already said he plans to destroy the earth after he wins the tournament so is no reason to let cell think they have an ace up their sleeve (gohan). we already saw what he did when he reverted back to second stage, how desperate he became so quickly
The thing that's kinda terrifying is that when you think about it for a moment, Goku almost created a monster worse than the one they had to deal with to begin with. All Gohan had ever known fighting as up to this point was bullies beating down on those too weak to fight back properly. He had experienced loss at the hands of such bullies several times before. Up to this point, he had always been too weak to fight back, too weak to protect everything he cared about. Then he became Super Saiyan 2. Now, he was stronger than Cell. He was the one in control. He was the one with the power. The very first thing to cross his mind after coming to this realization was that he was going to make Cell experience as much of what he himself had felt for so long as possible. He became straight up sadistic, insisting on making Cell suffer instead of just going to the kill. Let's say that Cell never tried to blow himself up after losing 18. Gohan continues bullying him until he's satisfied, and then finally ends it. What would that have meant for Gohan's character development? Never realizing in that moment that he screwed up, getting a taste of the thrill of what it feels like to be the bully with no immediate consequences. I'm convinced that if things had gone this way Gohan would have grown up into a straight up savage, and not the cool kind. The only thing stopping Gohan from going down a dark path was the fact that he got reality checked by Cell's sheer spite and realized that he messed up and shouldn't have been enjoying it so much.
I'm not sure if you've played the games but in xenoverse 2 this happens. The villain comes and turns gohan into some sadistic killer against cell, i cant remember how it ended though.
Being sadistic comes with ssj2 anyways, it's more progressive with each power level. But gohan is too pure hearted even more than goku maybe, irl he would never turn like that.
i disagree i feel he'd be in the ball park of trunks mindset of fighting but if worst comes to shove he will kill if the threat is there. his saiyan arrogance got the best of him but trunks mentality is scarred from his past.
5:20 The explanation of Cell's commitment to the tournament rules and showing honor toward Goku even while taunting him makes me think this came from him having a bit of Goku's literal DNA
If you were on Gohan's shoes, I would be shocked because how are you putting more faith in a kid that doesn't like to fight against someone who would've multiple times probably killed everyone.
I don't see why so many people have an issue with Goku as a father, Goku the man who loves fighting above all else chose to prioritize his son's growth and potential over himself and had complete blind faith that his son was completely capable of defeating Cell. He was so sure in his son beating Cell that he made sure to make Gohan's fight with Cell as fair as possible to help Gohan grow. Of course he miscalculated Gohan's willingness to fight but I don't think he can be entirely blamed for that, he spend a whole year with him inside the time chamber and apparently Gohan didn't show any obvious signs of him not wanting to fight, of course someone like Piccolo would know that Gohan doesn't like fighting, he literally threw Gohan into a fight that Gohan was COMPLETELY unprepared for and Gohan almost died because of it, meanwhile when Goku did it he placed Gohan in a fight he KNEW Gohan could win even if he didn't reach his full potential.
Yes but he also didnt understand his own kid like piccolo does. Gohan doesnt thirst for battle(which tbh was a retcon) so its a combination of bad writing and “goku being a bad father” , plus it doesnt help that goku isnt around his family much. It doesnt mean he doesnt care, hes still better than many fathers out there, but hes not the best either and the writers made things worse by contradicting gohans character. Gohan didnt question fighting frieza, the saiyans(aside from fear) , and preparing for the androids, as well as the fact Gohan trained harder than literally anyone to face cell, then suddenly he just wasnt into it? What??? They made gohan the main character of the arc only to also mess up his character. Thats why as good as cell arc is , its nowhere near namek arc level
Think of it this way: if you were walking down a back alley with your dad and a dude pulled a knife on you, and your dad gave the attacker a bigger knife to “challenge” you, what would you think of your dad? Cell wasn’t a training buddy, he was a monster who had killed millions of innocents and his prize for winning the tournament was to blow up the earth and everyone on it. Goku’s a shit father in the Cell games if you actually think about it. Same in the Buu saga onwards, actually. He was a good father up until the cell saga.
@@christopherbradley7149 so, by that definition, true as it is, Goku not giving cell a sensu bean and kindly asking Gohan to fight ( even though Gohan COULD HAVE said no ) means everyone is supposed to die instead then? Hmh, fine way to end Dragonball then cx
@@lonniegriggs723 We only know that in hindsight. Doesn't make it any less of a bad move on Goku's part. If Goku had been a better parent it would have been written differently anyway the series wouldn't have just ended lol
@@kuru-yami9416 The only bad thing Goku did as a dad was not understanding Gohan which many good fathers do.Other than that he spends time with Gohan whenever he's on earth and even brings him along whenever he trains.He always told Gohan to leave when an enemy was too powerful for him,He's a good dad overall and a better one than Vegeta or Piccolo. Gohan has never fought or kill anyone unless they're threatening his friends.Against Cell no one was getting hurt at that time and the Cell Games was treated as a sport.So obviously Gohan wouldn't be in the mood to fight.Gohan doesn't get any joy out of fighting like everyone else in DB does it's what makes him unique.And since you brought up Namek then i'm just gonna say Goku having a no kill rule is more of a retcon.
This was the single biggest thing I detested while watching Team Four Star's DBZA. The repeat gag of Goku being a bad dad was quite funny for awhile (and I'll always love pre-android saga DBZA). But later on, it literally stopped being written as comedy, and got incredibly dragged-out and uncomfortable. It was so bad by the Cell games, it really started feeling like to one or two of them on the writing team were projecting their own serious personal issues and/or bad relationships with their own fathers, because it got so needlessly preachy how much they insisted on beating this ded horse.
Goku is such a well loved character that we sometimes forget he belongs to a violent race of vicious, race obliterating brutes and got bonked on the head. Rewiring his brain. He acts like a human, but inside, he can be just as brutal, dangerous, and sadistic as Vegeta. He just chooses when to show it.
Saiyan scholar I have to say people like u is the reason why I can still say I am a db fan cuz u understand the anime alot better than people that just watch for power scaling sake
No, it's just that that's already implied and understood by everyone. Obviously the show is weird because a fallible human being wrote it. That's out of universe explanation. This is explaining the in universe reasoning behind it, for fun, because why not
I'm still amazed people seem to miss that little scene where Goku asked for a senzu bean and was about to jump in and take Gohan's place. Yet again these are the same people who claim Vegeta is a good father while in the same breath insulting Goku and calling him a terrible father. Last time I checked Goku never took off into space and left his child and wife, he also never used violence either on them and cared for them since day one.
Goku refused to have Shenron return him to his family twice, preferring to do other things then helping raise his family. Not defending Vegeta just saying.
@@spectrem Well one was done post cell since he thought he just brought trouble to his family and so was understandable. The other was him recovering from a brutal fight and then being Goku wanting to stay and learn for a while. It should be noted as soon as he knew Earth and Gohan was in danger he instantly came back using the new skill he learned and sorted Frieza out, if not for Trunks depending on Timeline. I think we can all understand him wanting some time to recover after Frieza on Namek. And he did plan to return soon. Goku spent most of the time he could with his family, it just seemed the universe itself tried to stop him most of the day.
Well above anything else, Goku likes to fight at full strength and to win those fights. He had approached Gohan in the wrong manner once he realized Gohan's potential. Just because someone has that potential doesn't mean you can push your own ideals to be the best and strongest on them, hence Piccolo's outburst. After the Cell games Goku kinda let Gohan do his thing and didn't interfere with what he wanted.
You know what I meant. All throughout the Buu Saga, Super onwards he doesn't really insert himself into Gohan's life when it comes to the battling. Infact even before he found out Gohans potential he didn't, but once he saw a glimpse of Gohan becoming SSJ2 he changed.@@arrownoir
He had this "i know im ginna die soon" vibe the whole time after the heart virus. Its like he knew he would take a way out if it eas there and someone could win
Goku is a bad father because he regularly "goes out for milk" and doesn't come back for 3 years at a time. 😂 He also screwed up Gohan's school entry interview.
Another reason for Goku's mindset during the Cell Saga is because he was a proud father at the time. He was like that dad during a sports game cheering about how that's his son when he makes a touchdown, or something. He had immense pride in Gohan and even projected some of himself onto Gohan like a lot of real world parents do, especially after seeing his great fighting potential. Of course once he realized that wasn't the life Gohan wanted, he was ready to fight Cell himself even if he knew he couldn't beat him at the time.
It's not really a matter of good or bad fatherhood. Gohan ascending to SSJ2 was the only chance they had. Even if Goku or Gohan could squeeze out a win against Cell as SSJ1, they wouldn't be powerful enough to completely destroy him before Cell got desperate and destroyed the planet (like Goku witnessed Frieza do). They couldn't afford a repeat of what happened with Frieza on Namek (or what Frieza tried on Earth in Ressurection F). They needed somebody to completely overwhelm Cell. Gohan was the only option. Giving Cell the senzu bean was instrumental in that. If a weakened Cell lost to SSJ1 Gohan, Earth would be in the line of fire. Goku needed Cell to be stronger than Cell to start. That's the only way Cell might entertain letting Gohan power up. It was a huge gamble, but it was the only chance they had. It was a genius move by Goku. Without it, they are all dead.
The weirdest part was that if Gohan was stronger in the time chamber, why didn't Goku capitalize on it and try to train against him so he could beat Cell himself? It just felt like a wasted opportunity that he finally found someone stronger than him as well as the best possible environment to go all out.
Goku reached his physical limit, he even says that training any longer would be counterproductive and redundant, that’s why him and Gohan left the chamber early. He also doesn’t have Gohan’s latent potential, where Gohan’s rage can boost his power far beyond what Goku could do. Outside of Gohan’s anger, the Z Fighters had no real winning strategy or chance of surviving
The time chamber gives diminishing returns. Trunks mentions how Vegeta figured out how to take his next step pretty early on in their time in the chamber, but he wanted to stay the full year anyway. Goku understood this, so they left early. There wasn't really a point in staying the whole year.
That's the exact reason why Goku didn't go into the time chamber a second time Because 1)Diminishing returns of the time chamber 2)Gohan's potential which Goku had seen
I think we also need to ask. Did cell actually need the Senzu bean after the fight with Goku?I know he looked tired and all, but he was also hiding a lot of his power and suppressing a lot more than goku even imagined. I just dont see how goku could have pushed cell to that far where taking a senzu actually did anything noticeable.
What you’re saying is head canon. It’s clearly shown that the senzu bean allowed Cell to regain the power necessary to be above Gohan. So yes, he needed that senzu bean. He never should’ve gotten it in the first place.
I know dbz is inconsistent about this but I always thought that if you took damage while suppressed you’d still keep that damage even if you went to 100%
Even with the senzu, Gohan was still stronger. Goku just tossed it because they like even fights, and Gohan didn't flinch at him doing it. Only the others, who didn't know Gohan's true strenght
If Goku woulda Gaven himself a senzu bean instead of cell, the same thing would happen but this time Goku would actually be able to help since he isn’t out of breath and with Goku being there to help Gohan, Gohan would be more confident, so if they’re both at full power teaming up on a weakened cell they should be able to take him out, and if not vegeta and trunks can help last minute
Except... no. Cell wasn't weakened. At all. Goku going all out barely scratched him. Even if all four Saiyans jumped him at once, Cell would have slaughtered all of them.
@@LunacorvaBut cell was tired, Gohan is stronger than Goku by a long shot, as when Cell is doing his blow to Gohan, everyone states that if that happened to Goku, he would've died and Gohan came out walking as if it barely even hurt him, Goku was also giving it his all while Gohan still thought Goku was holding back. Cell was more surprised with Gohan's strength than Goku's. Vegeta and Trunks should be relative in power after their second trip to the TC. Even if Cell was unscathed, he was still tired. Take for example, Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren, yes Jiren wasn't scratched but he was still tired, how else did he get punched by Blue Vegeta when Blue Goku before couldn't even do jackshit and this came more apparent when both used Evo and Kaioken
When it comes to malicious opponents, Goku has gotten softer on them in Z. Sparing their lives instead of killing them, even when they deserve it, but only after he completely dominated them. I don't think humiliation is the actual intent, but that is what he does. Knowing Gohan's gentle nature, I think Goku assumed that Gohan would do the same for Cell, and to help show Cell how unevenly they were matched, to aid in the humiliation, is part of the motivation for giving him the sensu bean. Also since he knew Gohan wasn't in much danger going in, it could also be seen as a confidence booster for his son.
I think Goku giving Cell the Senzu Bean was to be a confidence and motivation booster to Gohan. Goku acknowledges his son as the strongest person there and needed a way to let Gohan know he didn't need any advantages against his opponent to win. Yes Gohan was scared to fight, but Goku assumed that Gohan would start to fight and realize how much of a chance he had against Cell. I think something everyone forgets is, Goku never knew how much Gohan disliked fighting. At the beginning of the series, Gohan was a scaredy cat, but after his training with Piccolo, Goku never got to see a Gohan ever falter in the face of despair. To Goku, Gohan took up fighting and was able to answer the call against Raditz, Vegeta, Captain Ginyu, and Frieza. And in his training with Piccolo and Gohan and in the Chamber with just Gohan, Goku saw his son as someone with great potential, great motivation, but low confidence. Goku never knew the Gohan who ran away from Saibamen, from Nappa. He never saw that initial training with Piccolo that let Piccolo know that Gohan would not answer that call. That Gohan was truly proactive enough to become the main protagonist of the series. And Piccolo was right. Goku was right about the Cell games, but Piccolo was right about Gohan all along that he knows how to get Gohan motivated to react.
Thank you 👏 There’s nothing left to add to this, but for perspective I’ll add - Goku would understand firsthand how it felt being capable of protecting earth as an adolescent
I’m sorry, but the leaps in logic in this video are driving me crazy. Realistically speaking, Goku is a bad father. Yes, he knew Gohan COULD win. But he could not have known Gohan WOULD win. He had no way of even knowing Cell’s full power since he never revealed it before fighting Gohan. There were multiple times Gohan was in real danger of dying to Cell, and Goku put him in this situation. His 11 year old son. No good father would actually do this. But fine, I accept that it was likely their only chance to survive. But this does not excuse the senzu bean, and your reasoning does not make sense. Both the manga and anime go out of their way to show Cell winded after his fight with Goku. The senzu clearly did something. But even if it is true that it ultimately made no difference, why even risk it? A good father would not have done that. I fully believe SSJ1 Gohan could have killed the weakened Cell considering how much stronger he was than Goku. But Goku put sportsmanship over the safety of his own son. He was not a good father in this arc, and the arguments to the contrary in this video are shockingly flimsy compared to the usual for this channel.
WHY is Kibito Kai separated in Dragon Ball Diapers when he went to Namek to separate in Super?? (If this is supposed to take place in the 1 year gap of the Buu arc and Battle of Gods arc)
23:55 “sacrificing yourself is using all your life force to amp your attacks” HMM!! I like this read a lot-it confers with the fact that Roshi flat-out died in DB when he did the Mafuba Wave against Demon King Piccolo. He believed it was their only hope, and fully intended on sacrificing himself as his master did to save the world, only he missed the electric jar. Kind of cool how Tien, the failed too-pure son of the Crane school of assassins, is the one who mastered the Mafuba Wave and was able to perform it (at least to practice) in a way that it wouldn’t kill him. It’s like-the rift that caused Crane and Roshi to separate was Mutaito’s sacrifice at the hands of the Mafuba Wave, and while Roshi carried on Mutaito’s legacy and Crane rejected it seeking material things like power in exchange for the immaterial like morality or reason, it was a confluence of both masters that saved the day. Tien’s native goodness, which Roshi recognizes in him, and his natural aptitude for highly-dangerous Ki powers/passion and drive to succeed, which Crane and Tao recognize in him, are what led Tien to develop his understanding of the Mafuba Wave technique, ultimately righting the wrong done by Demon King Piccolo so long ago against both Crane’s and Roshi’s master. It’s cool, it’s like a nice little bow.
Before this video I thought it was just goku being ridiculous and wanting to escalate the situation by giving cell a sensu bean, but now I think his decision was more of a founded boast of Gohan’s hidden power.
I think there was two factors playing into Goku's death by Semi-perfect Cell's self-destruct. First, Goku had been beaten down by the Cell Jrs like 10 minutes prior, and in all depictions of the fight Goku had been shown barely able to stand by the time Gohan had unlocked Super Saiyan 2. So he had been drastically weakened by that point. Second, Cell's self destruct attack was likely not a "normal" self destruct. He was artificially created by a human scientist to defeat an incredibly powerful fighting force, so he wasn't a normal creature by any means. He likely had some sort of enhanced self destruct move programmed in by Dr.Gero, as a failsafe incase Cell came across an opponent he couldn't defeat. And if we look at Android 16, he honestly believed he could kill Perfect Cell with his self destruct attack, and not only could he sense power levels, Cell actually believed he was about to die so there is no reason to believe that Cell couldn't produce an even bigger explosion with his higher power. Plus He had absorbed Android 17, so he was likely able to use his bomb with his own self destruct. It's also likely Cell gained a small zenkai boost from eating the sensu bean, making his attack a bit stronger.
@@aka-fusion8909nah it wouldn't have lasted long at all at that point it probably would've killed him the strain on his body probably from using it would've been too much unless he didn't leave the time chamber early and carried on training for the rest of the time they had maybe
Goku would've died if he tried to stack Kaioken on top of Super Sayain. Goku admitted this in his fight against Hit that if he hadn't remastered Ki control with his god powers, his body would've been ripped apart.
That was a reach with that senzu bean argument lol rolled my eyes when you talked about sportsmanship, coupled with those other things. Yeah, I guess haha
I think a plausable reason for the Cell explosion being so strong could be the cell memory. Just like how when he comes back, his super Perfect cell due to his cells "remembering" the former power when he regenerated. Maybe the self destruct works off that residual power level, a multiplier of his max known power rather then whatever he currently has left in the tank.
If he’s weird for giving Cell a senzu my head canon is that he did that so that Cell would push Gohan into ssj2 and to show he wasn’t bluffing by giving Cell the senzu it made him carry it out and make Gohan become ssj2 so it made sense if Goku didn’t do that then Cell would’ve probably killed Gohan out of desperation or killed Gohan and called Goku’s bluff so stop blaming Goku for that guys
nah goku is a bad father and everyone knows it and repeats this fact. Glad they do. Chi chi had to ask him to get a job to help support their family. Also Goku giving cell a sensu bean is diabolical. No matter how you try to spin it. Horrible dad. He also smiled as Gohan got beat on for an hour by cell 🤮
We need to see this with the eyes of akira toriyama. He wanted to end dragonball with the cell saga. In the Chamber of time goku saw gohans unlimited potencial. But the only one who could unlock it was cell. So goku gave Cell the senzu bean otherwise gohan would have defeated cell at this point. Goku fought cell first so gohan learns his movements and fighting style after the fight goku was sure that with gohan together he could defeat cell so he gave up to use cell to unlock gohans hidden power that was his whole plan. But he didn't consider that gohan doesn't like fighting. And of course he couldn't know about cells abilities like producing cell jr. and therefore endangering his friends. Gokus plan was a gamble but i think it was worth the risk because in the time chamber i am sure that goku thought that he peaked and it was not enough for cell in the end but gohan ssj 2 that goku saw for a short time in the time chamber was at least two times as strong as him.
theres 0 sources for that claim lol. any of the "cell was supposed to be the last villain" or "gohan was taken out because the fans outrage" was all a myth. no credible source to these claims@@christianv.8448
Here’s something not a lot of people consider about Goku’s psychology at the time. He had been a Super Saiyan for a YEAR STRAIGHT at that point he gave the senzu to Cell. My understanding is that canonically, being in Super Saiyan form entails being in a heightened state of emotion, and that maintaining the form means holding that heightened state of emotion, which is why emotional shocks can knock people out of or into Super Saiyan form. So, for over a year, Goku and his son Gohan have been working to “progressively overload” their emotional state, until they could be emotionally where Goku is when Krillin is killed by Frieza, but physically and mentally just living normal day-to-day life. Super Saiyan is kind of like Kaioken, but with emotion, instead of with heart rate. Goku can grit his teeth and flex his muscles and raise his heartrate and say KAIOKEN! and get a power-up for as long as he can maintain the flex, or he can grit his teeth and summon significant enough emotion and flex his muscles and say FRIEZAAAAA! and get a power up for as long as he can maintain the emotion. Is there any wonder why this pure-of-heart, never-faced-impure-intentions-before, half-ape adult manchild may have somewhat clouded thoughts about his priorities in the Cell Games when you consider that he’s had to remember how it felt when Krillin was killed every day, had to specifically dwell upon the feeling, and had to help his son reach a similar state of emotional pique?
I think Toriyama and therefore Goku wanted to pass the torch, Gohan outclassed Goku in power which was eluded to since Raditz. So he saw fit that Gohan is fit to take over being the protector if earth needed one. If Goku died to Cell in some way, Gohan would be there with an earth that no longer had Goku there to draw enemies specifically for him. Genuinely it would've been interesting to see Gohan actually recognise he has this power he should try to keep up with it and be that protagonist. Even if for a short while, perhaps Gohan could've trained or forcibly made Vegeta train with him so Gohan could ease off fighting and pursue his own life.
TFS on their abridged had goku explaining himself to piccolo, in a surprisingly clear mind, even if misguided. I’d like to believe that was his thought process on DBZ original
This is a very good video. You think reasonably and logically. I still do not care, giving cell a sensu just before he fights your kid is a horrible idea.
I feel like the main reason he gave cell the senzu bean was so he would have the same courtesy with gohan the same way he offered Goku a senzu, so just in case Gohan wasn't able to extract all of his power he made it a sport, and when Piccolo talked to him he realized it didn't matter how many times Cell allowed the senzu bean probably Gohan would not get mad, so he tried to help as he also realized he was betting on torturing his son, wich didn't seem aparent to him at first glance because he doesn't associate fighting with torture and Gohan felt like a seasoned fighter by then.
The fact that this show from 30 years ago can be content for todays let’s you know they did their job good bad or ugly no other anime will have this impact or longevity
Goku isn’t weird. I think he’s trying to be a father but he has NO CLUE WTF THAT MEANS. The best he can do is relate it to fighting, the ONLY THING HE ACTUALLY KNOWS. Goku was a very proud father after the time chamber I think he had 100% faith in his son “as a fighter”. Unfortunately though, he can’t fathom a reality where someone doesn’t like fighting especially his own son.
Problem is Gohan DOES like fighting. That’s the thing. Yes he’s more mild than Goku. But to say he isn’t a fighter isn’t quite the whole truth. Gohan likes to be there for his friends, which requires fighting, also remember in the Buu arc Gohan signed up for the world tournament. Gohan likes to fight. Just not as much as Goku. That’s something both Goku and Piccolo didn’t accurately assess
@@vinsanity3510 He doesn't dislike fighting. He sees it more as a responsibility. He needs to fight because he has the power to protect, so he should. Like Spider-Man "with great power comes great responsibility." I'm sure he has fun sparring and stuff, but he approaches fights against villains very differently than Goku.
@@shmeebs387 exactly. He doesn’t dislike fighting anymore, but he definitely does not like it either. He sees it as a responsibility not like Goku who just loves fighting. Goku in fact absolutely irresponsible because of his love of fighting.
If they all jumped him and used the senzu beans I think it would have turned out more or less the same. They'd need a team attack with an instant transmission way up into the the air instant transmission out and hit cell with a Kamehameha, big bang, final flash on standby.
all this crumbles when u consider that goku is putting the entire world in danger of being destroyed over "sportsmanship" and "believing in his son". like the earth's wellbeing is insignificant when put next to the sacredness of battle and believing in his son.
Ya i still wont give Goku a pass here, the boys strength is irrelevant no good father had their son fight their battles for them. At Cells weakened state he should have popped a senzu and Goku,Vegeta,and trunks not give him a chance and put the bug down. Thats the practical real world scenario but that dosent Cell(pun intended ik lol)So ppl need to needlessly die in a pointless manner for plot and drama. I dont call him a terrible father but i wont call him a good father either.
Goku gave Gohan a senzu because in his head it would have been very light work for Gohan (and it was once he transformed and got the rage boost on top). His mistake was thinking Gohan had the heart for fighting like he did.
I would like to think that the reason he gave the been to his enemy is because he wanted his son to feel the experience of an enemy in full power to help him bring out his own full power. Otherwise there’s no sense of danger.
Idk man do you they kind of retconned Gohan? Like all of a sudden he's a pacist when Gohan was always ok with fighting when it meant to protect the earth or the future? I mean how was Goku suppose to know that when Gohan was always eager to train or fight for the right cause?
Oh man. Simply awesome point about “Because Cell let Goku surrender and forfeit his match and was sportsmanlike about it, and that’s really important to Goku”. That’s, I mean, fuck, that’s all you need to understand why he’d do that. That’s just something he would and does do in OG Dragon Ball.
The thing is, his son is weird because he wanted to be there with his dad. He wanted to fight and protect his friends, and for the show to act like that wasn’t the case when he volunteered to go with his dad’s best friend to another planet I don’t know it just seems like a change in character that was done so at the last minute.
In Buddhist mythology, Asura(Vanara included, which are apes Wu Kong/Goku are based off of) don't like receiving aid when in combat. And want their opponents to fight at full strength due to some sort of martial pride and are above slaying a weakened foe. I believe this is why Zorro from one piece also hates receiving aid.
You know, the whole thing about Semi-Perfect Cell's explosion really does make you think... I mean, him coming back as Super-Perfect Cell after blowing himself up _might_ play a part in his explosion being so stupidly strong, but... man, them not even trying to make a barrier or anything around him really does seem dumb. It couldn't possibly be that they didn't know how to make a Ki Barrier, because they're all, relatively speaking, Ki masters. And Cell was hardly fighting anymore, so any honor code really should've gone out the window by then... Guess it really is just a "Rule of Cool" thing to have it go the way it did.
Tbf 17 is the only one capable of creating a decent ki barrier like we'd seen to that point and mostly cause he has infinite energy idk if in universe it woulda Been possible to contain it
Man not even much gonna lie. On some real shit goku is down to earth as they come. Peep, now this is just a thought. What if Goku was letting Gohan relax so Gohan can settle in the fact that you can only train so much for a foe that you don’t understand. And that if the outcome is evident time together is still something aim for. Taking everything in that brings you thanks is reflection on what motivates an individual to continue to dig deeper. Physical training can only do so much. Time to train the heart and spirit. Because Goku understands his son and understands those bonds make him strong. Therefore enjoy everyone because it’s real why might not enjoy because we might not be able to again if we fail. Could be sensed in silence. However even though goku did give cell a sensu bean. And that’s messed up. But as cell was would Gohan have vanquished cell completely. Goku didn’t anticipate Gohan would become a monster and he compensated it by offering his life for his mistake past, present and future. Free thought
believing Gohan can win and knowing Gohan can win are 2 different things. Goku only believed he could win, until Gohan was encouraged to let go and fight to protect lives was it knowing
Goku dying to semi-perfect Cell's explosion is def one of those moments you kinda have to accept for storytelling purposes. And reallt, a lot of moments in Dragon Ball are like that. Think Roshi destroying the moon in OG Dragon Ball compared to how power increases even in that same series. It makes little sense, but it is canon. Toriyama himself said power levels are bullshit. He made that system to make fun of the idea a hero's power could be measured in numbers, when the Z Senshi's true power is fuelled by their passions, their bonds, and desire to protect Earth. Also, I assumed that stopping a certain level of energy/damage takes exerting an equal amount of ki force. Thats how inertia works in real life. To be invincible Goku would have to constantly maintain a "skin" of ki with planet-busting levels of energy ever second. He's not an Android, he's going to gas out eventually and collapse from exhaustion
Goku wanted Gohan to know that he didn't need to always depend on him to save the day. He gave Cell a Senzu that way Gohan wouldn't have seen the victory as a charity, like if Krillin ended up stabbing Vegeta as he crawled into his space pod in retreat. Yeah, he would have technically been the one who killed Vegeta but definitely having the complex that Goku is still desperatly needed. Goku knew Gohan could break on through and push his limits, he can be a great scholar AND be the defender against evil when Goku's time has come. He most likely reflected on the heart virus and how him dying in the future timeline was the definitive reason they failed. Goku always had a plan and found a way to triumph, without him they couldn't succeed so he had to hand the reigns over while he was alive.
Also, keep in mind, the reason why he had a hard time finding the juniors it’s because he wasn’t at full power. He was still exhausted, tired, and weak from the last fight with the main guy.
TBH i Believe if Trunks trained with Gohan and Goku trained with Vegeta things would be more smooth also if they defeated cell without ssj2 gohan that would lead to a different outcome a weaker Gohan means less energy Majin Buu gets and if Goku is still alive then considering if they revived Vegeta then he will get his Fight with Goku and that will put his mind at ease which makes the Majin Buu Saga avoidable the story would be the same but can or cannot be with SSJ3
Not weird. He knew he would not always be around to protect Earth and after seeing Gohan's hidden power he knew he was the one. He knew Cell was the needed push to unleash his power the way Frieza unleashed Goku's Ssj form. Not weird and click bait thumbnail
Pretty sure this was an effect of the heart disease on a mental level. Goku realized he was a mortal and tried to get the next generation ready. He gave cell the senzu to demonstrate sportmanship considering at any time this dude could fly to space and blow up earth.
You are hitting a very important point about fairness/honour, Cell had 0 reason to not blow up the planet or give a week of training. Cell wanted to fight. Take the 2 other main enemy of z, Freeza and Buu, both blew up the planet when things got rough or they stopped caring about fighting.
I think a fighter's durability is matched by their ki that they can dedicate to that durability and ability to withstand damage. Vegeta was able to be hurt to within an inch of his life by lowering his defenses against Krillin's attack. Krillin was nowhere near Vegeta in strength. Had Vegeta kept his guard up, would Krillin's blast just bounce right off him? Goku had maybe one second, theoretically he could have put his defenses up for it. But, Toriyama wanted Goku to die here, so he did.
Not gonna lie, I never once thought too in depth on these things cause at the end of the day it's just a show for entertainment. That being said, I don't see outcome 2 even coming close to happening mainly because gohan always had it in him to go ssj2 it just took seeing someone dying in front of him to snap, so tbh gohan seeing trunks die in front of him would've definitely been more than enough especially cause he knew trunks better than 16, and that's only if his dad dying in vain doesn't do it or seeing piccolo die doesn't do it. At that point gohan is mainly a time ticking bomb that cell THINKS isn't worth any concern over since to him ssj2 ain't even a thing and thinks gohan at ssj is all there is.
I think its entirely plausible goku had a wake up call with his heart disease. Doesnt matter how tough you are if your heart just stops anyways. Thats when his focused shifted to finding someone who can take his place as earths protector.
yeah it's kind of a shame SUPER FUCKING FORGOT ABOUT THE WHOLE POINT OF THE FRANCHISE AFTER NAMECC
@@xdrastig_4207 it was Z who contradicts that not super. The whole point of the buu saga is how neither of gokus successors had what it takes to do what goku does.
I never thought about that aspect of it in that way but it does make complete sense though, definitely a great observation 💯.
@@xdrastig_4207 Buu arc
@@RedMoonLoopThe buu arc is a horribly placed mess whose main villain is a literal joke for most of its arc. Not only that but it straight up robs Gohan of the main character roll he’s work for sense the first arc (hell Gohan arguably is the main character of Z).
The buu arc went back on Goku’s character growth and super followed suit.
Goku during the cell games acts like a person that found out he’s going to die and is on borrowed time, accepted it and is living out his last days carrying a very casual and strangely optimistic, borderline daydreamy view. In a weird way, he’s trying to set those up around him in preparation for him not being there anymore - in this case, having Gohan take over as the protector of earth. His realization that he goofed up, i take it, is akin to him understanding that it was way too soon to adopt such backseat approach to what was going on around him
Really good observation.
I agree with the observation, but I also wonder if Goku was considering the possibility that Cell would have to kill him for Gohan to reach his true potential.
I think a part of him considered that he wasn’t going to survive the Cell Games, which ended up being true.
Excellent observation.
I think there's another reason for giving Cell the Sensu bean:
Gohan never had the confidence to win and even if he beat Cell, it will always be in the back of his mind that he likely only won because his daddy roughed up Cell for him. Even if Goku tells him otherwise, that doubt will always be there and will haunt him for the rest of his life.
Giving Cell the Sensu bean would erase all doubt and Gohan would never be haunted by such a burden.
I doubt gohan would care at all about that burden. He’s not a warrior he only fights so he doesn’t have to. He just wants a good life without violence.
@@sleepy9102 I agree Gohan wouldn't worry about that but he'll still think he's weaker than Goku.
@Starlight-je6qj this is what i lean towards. cell already said he plans to destroy the earth after he wins the tournament so is no reason to let cell think they have an ace up their sleeve (gohan). we already saw what he did when he reverted back to second stage, how desperate he became so quickly
@Starlight-je6qj No it was very bad and nearly got them killed several times
@@sleepy9102 well yeah but at that point in the arc goku doesn't know that so it's completely plausible that this comment was what goku was thinking
The thing that's kinda terrifying is that when you think about it for a moment, Goku almost created a monster worse than the one they had to deal with to begin with. All Gohan had ever known fighting as up to this point was bullies beating down on those too weak to fight back properly. He had experienced loss at the hands of such bullies several times before. Up to this point, he had always been too weak to fight back, too weak to protect everything he cared about. Then he became Super Saiyan 2. Now, he was stronger than Cell. He was the one in control. He was the one with the power. The very first thing to cross his mind after coming to this realization was that he was going to make Cell experience as much of what he himself had felt for so long as possible. He became straight up sadistic, insisting on making Cell suffer instead of just going to the kill.
Let's say that Cell never tried to blow himself up after losing 18. Gohan continues bullying him until he's satisfied, and then finally ends it. What would that have meant for Gohan's character development? Never realizing in that moment that he screwed up, getting a taste of the thrill of what it feels like to be the bully with no immediate consequences. I'm convinced that if things had gone this way Gohan would have grown up into a straight up savage, and not the cool kind. The only thing stopping Gohan from going down a dark path was the fact that he got reality checked by Cell's sheer spite and realized that he messed up and shouldn't have been enjoying it so much.
I'm not sure if you've played the games but in xenoverse 2 this happens. The villain comes and turns gohan into some sadistic killer against cell, i cant remember how it ended though.
Being sadistic comes with ssj2 anyways, it's more progressive with each power level. But gohan is too pure hearted even more than goku maybe, irl he would never turn like that.
i disagree i feel he'd be in the ball park of trunks mindset of fighting but if worst comes to shove he will kill if the threat is there. his saiyan arrogance got the best of him but trunks mentality is scarred from his past.
5:20 The explanation of Cell's commitment to the tournament rules and showing honor toward Goku even while taunting him makes me think this came from him having a bit of Goku's literal DNA
_The sole fact that Goku believed in Gohan, like,_
Imagine having a father who believed in you *AS MUCH* as Goku did. _I'd love that._
If you were on Gohan's shoes, I would be shocked because how are you putting more faith in a kid that doesn't like to fight against someone who would've multiple times probably killed everyone.
I do have a father like that, fathers are supposed to believe in you lol
@@darkgenics true, but I'm solely focusing on the faith factor here.
@@Davidpostingshid yeah, well, *we don't all have that, brother.*
@@Davidpostingshid Weird flex okay
I don't see why so many people have an issue with Goku as a father, Goku the man who loves fighting above all else chose to prioritize his son's growth and potential over himself and had complete blind faith that his son was completely capable of defeating Cell. He was so sure in his son beating Cell that he made sure to make Gohan's fight with Cell as fair as possible to help Gohan grow. Of course he miscalculated Gohan's willingness to fight but I don't think he can be entirely blamed for that, he spend a whole year with him inside the time chamber and apparently Gohan didn't show any obvious signs of him not wanting to fight, of course someone like Piccolo would know that Gohan doesn't like fighting, he literally threw Gohan into a fight that Gohan was COMPLETELY unprepared for and Gohan almost died because of it, meanwhile when Goku did it he placed Gohan in a fight he KNEW Gohan could win even if he didn't reach his full potential.
Yes but he also didnt understand his own kid like piccolo does. Gohan doesnt thirst for battle(which tbh was a retcon) so its a combination of bad writing and “goku being a bad father” , plus it doesnt help that goku isnt around his family much. It doesnt mean he doesnt care, hes still better than many fathers out there, but hes not the best either and the writers made things worse by contradicting gohans character. Gohan didnt question fighting frieza, the saiyans(aside from fear) , and preparing for the androids, as well as the fact Gohan trained harder than literally anyone to face cell, then suddenly he just wasnt into it? What??? They made gohan the main character of the arc only to also mess up his character. Thats why as good as cell arc is , its nowhere near namek arc level
Think of it this way: if you were walking down a back alley with your dad and a dude pulled a knife on you, and your dad gave the attacker a bigger knife to “challenge” you, what would you think of your dad?
Cell wasn’t a training buddy, he was a monster who had killed millions of innocents and his prize for winning the tournament was to blow up the earth and everyone on it.
Goku’s a shit father in the Cell games if you actually think about it. Same in the Buu saga onwards, actually. He was a good father up until the cell saga.
@@christopherbradley7149 so, by that definition, true as it is, Goku not giving cell a sensu bean and kindly asking Gohan to fight ( even though Gohan COULD HAVE said no ) means everyone is supposed to die instead then? Hmh, fine way to end Dragonball then cx
@@lonniegriggs723 We only know that in hindsight. Doesn't make it any less of a bad move on Goku's part. If Goku had been a better parent it would have been written differently anyway the series wouldn't have just ended lol
@@kuru-yami9416 The only bad thing Goku did as a dad was not understanding Gohan which many good fathers do.Other than that he spends time with Gohan whenever he's on earth and even brings him along whenever he trains.He always told Gohan to leave when an enemy was too powerful for him,He's a good dad overall and a better one than Vegeta or Piccolo.
Gohan has never fought or kill anyone unless they're threatening his friends.Against Cell no one was getting hurt at that time and the Cell Games was treated as a sport.So obviously Gohan wouldn't be in the mood to fight.Gohan doesn't get any joy out of fighting like everyone else in DB does it's what makes him unique.And since you brought up Namek then i'm just gonna say Goku having a no kill rule is more of a retcon.
This was the single biggest thing I detested while watching Team Four Star's DBZA. The repeat gag of Goku being a bad dad was quite funny for awhile (and I'll always love pre-android saga DBZA). But later on, it literally stopped being written as comedy, and got incredibly dragged-out and uncomfortable. It was so bad by the Cell games, it really started feeling like to one or two of them on the writing team were projecting their own serious personal issues and/or bad relationships with their own fathers, because it got so needlessly preachy how much they insisted on beating this ded horse.
Goku is such a well loved character that we sometimes forget he belongs to a violent race of vicious, race obliterating brutes and got bonked on the head. Rewiring his brain. He acts like a human, but inside, he can be just as brutal, dangerous, and sadistic as Vegeta. He just chooses when to show it.
thats goku! 👍
@@dankura Yup I don't go with any of that new shit in the Broly movie🍿
Saiyan scholar I have to say people like u is the reason why I can still say I am a db fan cuz u understand the anime alot better than people that just watch for power scaling sake
Just remember; the answer will always be: Toriyama forgot, or doesn't care XD
Goku got a new lawyer to fight off the bad father allegations
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I feel like you guys just dont say its toriyama's writing.
For real
No, it's just that that's already implied and understood by everyone. Obviously the show is weird because a fallible human being wrote it. That's out of universe explanation. This is explaining the in universe reasoning behind it, for fun, because why not
@TheHaddonfieldRegistry i feel you but breh.
I'm still amazed people seem to miss that little scene where Goku asked for a senzu bean and was about to jump in and take Gohan's place. Yet again these are the same people who claim Vegeta is a good father while in the same breath insulting Goku and calling him a terrible father. Last time I checked Goku never took off into space and left his child and wife, he also never used violence either on them and cared for them since day one.
Thiss
Goku refused to have Shenron return him to his family twice, preferring to do other things then helping raise his family. Not defending Vegeta just saying.
@@spectrem Well one was done post cell since he thought he just brought trouble to his family and so was understandable.
The other was him recovering from a brutal fight and then being Goku wanting to stay and learn for a while. It should be noted as soon as he knew Earth and Gohan was in danger he instantly came back using the new skill he learned and sorted Frieza out, if not for Trunks depending on Timeline.
I think we can all understand him wanting some time to recover after Frieza on Namek. And he did plan to return soon.
Goku spent most of the time he could with his family, it just seemed the universe itself tried to stop him most of the day.
All I heard is I'm a Goku fanboy, stop pointing out the flaws of my supposed hero.
To be Vegeta never left for space in the manga
I can imagine that if Goku would throw Gohan to Cell, Then Bardock would have threw Goku to Frieza 😅😅
Bardock: hey son wanna take a shot at Freeza
Goku: k dad
Goku: hey son wanna take a shot at Cell
Gohan: No, dad
@@Suleiman2000 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well above anything else, Goku likes to fight at full strength and to win those fights. He had approached Gohan in the wrong manner once he realized Gohan's potential. Just because someone has that potential doesn't mean you can push your own ideals to be the best and strongest on them, hence Piccolo's outburst.
After the Cell games Goku kinda let Gohan do his thing and didn't interfere with what he wanted.
How could he interfere? He was dead.
@arrownoir was just thinking the same 😂😂
You know what I meant. All throughout the Buu Saga, Super onwards he doesn't really insert himself into Gohan's life when it comes to the battling.
Infact even before he found out Gohans potential he didn't, but once he saw a glimpse of Gohan becoming SSJ2 he changed.@@arrownoir
@@ghoztly7099 yep, that tracks for how he treats Gohan in GT as well
Why did Goku give Cell the senzu bean?
*to extend the saga for 4 more episodes*
Why Goku to feel sorry for a serial killer like Cell who drains people lifes to be fed?
He had this "i know im ginna die soon" vibe the whole time after the heart virus. Its like he knew he would take a way out if it eas there and someone could win
Goku is a bad father because he regularly "goes out for milk" and doesn't come back for 3 years at a time. 😂 He also screwed up Gohan's school entry interview.
Another reason for Goku's mindset during the Cell Saga is because he was a proud father at the time. He was like that dad during a sports game cheering about how that's his son when he makes a touchdown, or something. He had immense pride in Gohan and even projected some of himself onto Gohan like a lot of real world parents do, especially after seeing his great fighting potential. Of course once he realized that wasn't the life Gohan wanted, he was ready to fight Cell himself even if he knew he couldn't beat him at the time.
Weird? The pinnacle of Goku.
dude I love your take on stuff I never thought of some of the stuff you bring up lol thanks for the content
I mean, i interpreted this as some kinda push from Toriyama to make Gohan the MC
It's not really a matter of good or bad fatherhood. Gohan ascending to SSJ2 was the only chance they had. Even if Goku or Gohan could squeeze out a win against Cell as SSJ1, they wouldn't be powerful enough to completely destroy him before Cell got desperate and destroyed the planet (like Goku witnessed Frieza do). They couldn't afford a repeat of what happened with Frieza on Namek (or what Frieza tried on Earth in Ressurection F). They needed somebody to completely overwhelm Cell. Gohan was the only option.
Giving Cell the senzu bean was instrumental in that. If a weakened Cell lost to SSJ1 Gohan, Earth would be in the line of fire. Goku needed Cell to be stronger than Cell to start. That's the only way Cell might entertain letting Gohan power up. It was a huge gamble, but it was the only chance they had. It was a genius move by Goku. Without it, they are all dead.
Orrr… hear me out… Krillin COULD HAVE just pressed the button!!.. lol
The weirdest part was that if Gohan was stronger in the time chamber, why didn't Goku capitalize on it and try to train against him so he could beat Cell himself? It just felt like a wasted opportunity that he finally found someone stronger than him as well as the best possible environment to go all out.
Goku reached his physical limit, he even says that training any longer would be counterproductive and redundant, that’s why him and Gohan left the chamber early. He also doesn’t have Gohan’s latent potential, where Gohan’s rage can boost his power far beyond what Goku could do. Outside of Gohan’s anger, the Z Fighters had no real winning strategy or chance of surviving
The time chamber gives diminishing returns. Trunks mentions how Vegeta figured out how to take his next step pretty early on in their time in the chamber, but he wanted to stay the full year anyway. Goku understood this, so they left early. There wasn't really a point in staying the whole year.
@@shmeebs387 💯
That's the exact reason why Goku didn't go into the time chamber a second time
Because
1)Diminishing returns of the time chamber
2)Gohan's potential which Goku had seen
I think we also need to ask. Did cell actually need the Senzu bean after the fight with Goku?I know he looked tired and all, but he was also hiding a lot of his power and suppressing a lot more than goku even imagined. I just dont see how goku could have pushed cell to that far where taking a senzu actually did anything noticeable.
What you’re saying is head canon. It’s clearly shown that the senzu bean allowed Cell to regain the power necessary to be above Gohan. So yes, he needed that senzu bean. He never should’ve gotten it in the first place.
I know dbz is inconsistent about this but I always thought that if you took damage while suppressed you’d still keep that damage even if you went to 100%
@@defaultname7685 Unless you transform, which inexplicably has healing properties and resets you back to 100%
Even with the senzu, Gohan was still stronger.
Goku just tossed it because they like even fights, and Gohan didn't flinch at him doing it.
Only the others, who didn't know Gohan's true strenght
If Goku woulda Gaven himself a senzu bean instead of cell, the same thing would happen but this time Goku would actually be able to help since he isn’t out of breath and with Goku being there to help Gohan, Gohan would be more confident, so if they’re both at full power teaming up on a weakened cell they should be able to take him out, and if not vegeta and trunks can help last minute
Except... no. Cell wasn't weakened. At all. Goku going all out barely scratched him. Even if all four Saiyans jumped him at once, Cell would have slaughtered all of them.
@@LunacorvaBut cell was tired, Gohan is stronger than Goku by a long shot, as when Cell is doing his blow to Gohan, everyone states that if that happened to Goku, he would've died and Gohan came out walking as if it barely even hurt him, Goku was also giving it his all while Gohan still thought Goku was holding back. Cell was more surprised with Gohan's strength than Goku's. Vegeta and Trunks should be relative in power after their second trip to the TC. Even if Cell was unscathed, he was still tired. Take for example, Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren, yes Jiren wasn't scratched but he was still tired, how else did he get punched by Blue Vegeta when Blue Goku before couldn't even do jackshit and this came more apparent when both used Evo and Kaioken
@@darkgenicsdude thank you!!
When it comes to malicious opponents, Goku has gotten softer on them in Z. Sparing their lives instead of killing them, even when they deserve it, but only after he completely dominated them. I don't think humiliation is the actual intent, but that is what he does. Knowing Gohan's gentle nature, I think Goku assumed that Gohan would do the same for Cell, and to help show Cell how unevenly they were matched, to aid in the humiliation, is part of the motivation for giving him the sensu bean. Also since he knew Gohan wasn't in much danger going in, it could also be seen as a confidence booster for his son.
I think Goku giving Cell the Senzu Bean was to be a confidence and motivation booster to Gohan. Goku acknowledges his son as the strongest person there and needed a way to let Gohan know he didn't need any advantages against his opponent to win. Yes Gohan was scared to fight, but Goku assumed that Gohan would start to fight and realize how much of a chance he had against Cell.
I think something everyone forgets is, Goku never knew how much Gohan disliked fighting. At the beginning of the series, Gohan was a scaredy cat, but after his training with Piccolo, Goku never got to see a Gohan ever falter in the face of despair. To Goku, Gohan took up fighting and was able to answer the call against Raditz, Vegeta, Captain Ginyu, and Frieza. And in his training with Piccolo and Gohan and in the Chamber with just Gohan, Goku saw his son as someone with great potential, great motivation, but low confidence. Goku never knew the Gohan who ran away from Saibamen, from Nappa. He never saw that initial training with Piccolo that let Piccolo know that Gohan would not answer that call. That Gohan was truly proactive enough to become the main protagonist of the series. And Piccolo was right. Goku was right about the Cell games, but Piccolo was right about Gohan all along that he knows how to get Gohan motivated to react.
Thank you 👏
There’s nothing left to add to this, but for perspective I’ll add - Goku would understand firsthand how it felt being capable of protecting earth as an adolescent
goku played cell. giving him a senzu made cell calmer and less desperate. cornered cell would kill everyone
I’m sorry, but the leaps in logic in this video are driving me crazy.
Realistically speaking, Goku is a bad father. Yes, he knew Gohan COULD win. But he could not have known Gohan WOULD win. He had no way of even knowing Cell’s full power since he never revealed it before fighting Gohan. There were multiple times Gohan was in real danger of dying to Cell, and Goku put him in this situation. His 11 year old son. No good father would actually do this.
But fine, I accept that it was likely their only chance to survive. But this does not excuse the senzu bean, and your reasoning does not make sense. Both the manga and anime go out of their way to show Cell winded after his fight with Goku. The senzu clearly did something. But even if it is true that it ultimately made no difference, why even risk it? A good father would not have done that.
I fully believe SSJ1 Gohan could have killed the weakened Cell considering how much stronger he was than Goku. But Goku put sportsmanship over the safety of his own son. He was not a good father in this arc, and the arguments to the contrary in this video are shockingly flimsy compared to the usual for this channel.
Exactly smh
WHY is Kibito Kai separated in Dragon Ball Diapers when he went to Namek to separate in Super?? (If this is supposed to take place in the 1 year gap of the Buu arc and Battle of Gods arc)
You found a plot hole within the first 60 second trailer 😂😂😂
Simple daima takes place during or after DBS
I was under the impression it was to take place around the end of Super and before the end of Z.
Goku died a man who learned a lesson
23:55 “sacrificing yourself is using all your life force to amp your attacks” HMM!!
I like this read a lot-it confers with the fact that Roshi flat-out died in DB when he did the Mafuba Wave against Demon King Piccolo. He believed it was their only hope, and fully intended on sacrificing himself as his master did to save the world, only he missed the electric jar.
Kind of cool how Tien, the failed too-pure son of the Crane school of assassins, is the one who mastered the Mafuba Wave and was able to perform it (at least to practice) in a way that it wouldn’t kill him. It’s like-the rift that caused Crane and Roshi to separate was Mutaito’s sacrifice at the hands of the Mafuba Wave, and while Roshi carried on Mutaito’s legacy and Crane rejected it seeking material things like power in exchange for the immaterial like morality or reason, it was a confluence of both masters that saved the day. Tien’s native goodness, which Roshi recognizes in him, and his natural aptitude for highly-dangerous Ki powers/passion and drive to succeed, which Crane and Tao recognize in him, are what led Tien to develop his understanding of the Mafuba Wave technique, ultimately righting the wrong done by Demon King Piccolo so long ago against both Crane’s and Roshi’s master. It’s cool, it’s like a nice little bow.
0:20
GUYS!!! GUYS!!!
HE SAID THE WORD!!!
One of my favorite video of yours, very cohesive explanations that make a lot of sense
Before this video I thought it was just goku being ridiculous and wanting to escalate the situation by giving cell a sensu bean, but now I think his decision was more of a founded boast of Gohan’s hidden power.
I think there was two factors playing into Goku's death by Semi-perfect Cell's self-destruct.
First, Goku had been beaten down by the Cell Jrs like 10 minutes prior, and in all depictions of the fight Goku had been shown barely able to stand by the time Gohan had unlocked Super Saiyan 2. So he had been drastically weakened by that point.
Second, Cell's self destruct attack was likely not a "normal" self destruct. He was artificially created by a human scientist to defeat an incredibly powerful fighting force, so he wasn't a normal creature by any means. He likely had some sort of enhanced self destruct move programmed in by Dr.Gero, as a failsafe incase Cell came across an opponent he couldn't defeat. And if we look at Android 16, he honestly believed he could kill Perfect Cell with his self destruct attack, and not only could he sense power levels, Cell actually believed he was about to die so there is no reason to believe that Cell couldn't produce an even bigger explosion with his higher power. Plus He had absorbed Android 17, so he was likely able to use his bomb with his own self destruct.
It's also likely Cell gained a small zenkai boost from eating the sensu bean, making his attack a bit stronger.
Lovely 🎉
19:28
Trunks: "oh, hey, mom! Just playing knights and dragons, with some friends!"😊
I think Goku gave Cell a Senzu bean so that Gohan would feel backed into a corner and awaken his hidden potential
Yup. He drops this clue in the HTC when talks about the next level and Gohan holding the key to unlocking it.
Goku knew Gohan was going to surpass him in the chamber before they even walked through the door.
conclusion: goku is a good father...just not a perfect one
Saiyan saga Goku the student
Friza Saga Goku Master Exam
Cell saga. Goku the master
Buu saga Goku the Teacher
GT. Goku the Veteran
He should have used kiaoken since he mastered ssj
Super kaioken Goku can prolly take out ssj2 gohan and cell at the same time
it depends times 4 yep times 2 nope@@aka-fusion8909
@@aka-fusion8909nah it wouldn't have lasted long at all at that point it probably would've killed him the strain on his body probably from using it would've been too much unless he didn't leave the time chamber early and carried on training for the rest of the time they had maybe
Would've been kool to see back then though definitely
Goku would've died if he tried to stack Kaioken on top of Super Sayain. Goku admitted this in his fight against Hit that if he hadn't remastered Ki control with his god powers, his body would've been ripped apart.
That was a reach with that senzu bean argument lol rolled my eyes when you talked about sportsmanship, coupled with those other things. Yeah, I guess haha
I think a plausable reason for the Cell explosion being so strong could be the cell memory.
Just like how when he comes back, his super Perfect cell due to his cells "remembering" the former power when he regenerated. Maybe the self destruct works off that residual power level, a multiplier of his max known power rather then whatever he currently has left in the tank.
If he’s weird for giving Cell a senzu my head canon is that he did that so that Cell would push Gohan into ssj2 and to show he wasn’t bluffing by giving Cell the senzu it made him carry it out and make Gohan become ssj2 so it made sense if Goku didn’t do that then Cell would’ve probably killed Gohan out of desperation or killed Gohan and called Goku’s bluff so stop blaming Goku for that guys
nah goku is a bad father and everyone knows it and repeats this fact. Glad they do. Chi chi had to ask him to get a job to help support their family. Also Goku giving cell a sensu bean is diabolical. No matter how you try to spin it. Horrible dad. He also smiled as Gohan got beat on for an hour by cell 🤮
We need to see this with the eyes of akira toriyama. He wanted to end dragonball with the cell saga. In the Chamber of time goku saw gohans unlimited potencial. But the only one who could unlock it was cell. So goku gave Cell the senzu bean otherwise gohan would have defeated cell at this point.
Goku fought cell first so gohan learns his movements and fighting style after the fight goku was sure that with gohan together he could defeat cell so he gave up to use cell to unlock gohans hidden power that was his whole plan. But he didn't consider that gohan doesn't like fighting. And of course he couldn't know about cells abilities like producing cell jr. and therefore endangering his friends.
Gokus plan was a gamble but i think it was worth the risk because in the time chamber i am sure that goku thought that he peaked and it was not enough for cell in the end but gohan ssj 2 that goku saw for a short time in the time chamber was at least two times as strong as him.
Nah that’s a myth
@@AllMight6 He literally said it himself. That he wanted to end it there xD
theres 0 sources for that claim lol. any of the "cell was supposed to be the last villain" or "gohan was taken out because the fans outrage" was all a myth. no credible source to these claims@@christianv.8448
His Frieza Cells took over at the end bulking up and trying to destroy the planet.
Here’s something not a lot of people consider about Goku’s psychology at the time. He had been a Super Saiyan for a YEAR STRAIGHT at that point he gave the senzu to Cell.
My understanding is that canonically, being in Super Saiyan form entails being in a heightened state of emotion, and that maintaining the form means holding that heightened state of emotion, which is why emotional shocks can knock people out of or into Super Saiyan form. So, for over a year, Goku and his son Gohan have been working to “progressively overload” their emotional state, until they could be emotionally where Goku is when Krillin is killed by Frieza, but physically and mentally just living normal day-to-day life.
Super Saiyan is kind of like Kaioken, but with emotion, instead of with heart rate. Goku can grit his teeth and flex his muscles and raise his heartrate and say KAIOKEN! and get a power-up for as long as he can maintain the flex, or he can grit his teeth and summon significant enough emotion and flex his muscles and say FRIEZAAAAA! and get a power up for as long as he can maintain the emotion.
Is there any wonder why this pure-of-heart, never-faced-impure-intentions-before, half-ape adult manchild may have somewhat clouded thoughts about his priorities in the Cell Games when you consider that he’s had to remember how it felt when Krillin was killed every day, had to specifically dwell upon the feeling, and had to help his son reach a similar state of emotional pique?
I think Toriyama and therefore Goku wanted to pass the torch, Gohan outclassed Goku in power which was eluded to since Raditz.
So he saw fit that Gohan is fit to take over being the protector if earth needed one.
If Goku died to Cell in some way, Gohan would be there with an earth that no longer had Goku there to draw enemies specifically for him.
Genuinely it would've been interesting to see Gohan actually recognise he has this power he should try to keep up with it and be that protagonist.
Even if for a short while, perhaps Gohan could've trained or forcibly made Vegeta train with him so Gohan could ease off fighting and pursue his own life.
When Goku gives cell a senzu bean is when dragon ball super begins imo. Goku just isn’t the same afterwards, he just has the dragon ball super mindset
TFS on their abridged had goku explaining himself to piccolo, in a surprisingly clear mind, even if misguided. I’d like to believe that was his thought process on DBZ original
This is a very good video. You think reasonably and logically. I still do not care, giving cell a sensu just before he fights your kid is a horrible idea.
I feel like the main reason he gave cell the senzu bean was so he would have the same courtesy with gohan the same way he offered Goku a senzu, so just in case Gohan wasn't able to extract all of his power he made it a sport, and when Piccolo talked to him he realized it didn't matter how many times Cell allowed the senzu bean probably Gohan would not get mad, so he tried to help as he also realized he was betting on torturing his son, wich didn't seem aparent to him at first glance because he doesn't associate fighting with torture and Gohan felt like a seasoned fighter by then.
The fact that this show from 30 years ago can be content for todays let’s you know they did their job good bad or ugly no other anime will have this impact or longevity
You know sometimes I think people forget that og dragonball exist. This was just goku passing on the turtle school duty to protect the world
Goku wanted his son to be a tournament winner.
Cell Games Goku wasn’t weird.. *insert Homelander* “It was Perfect. Just perfect”
All is my opinion. Dropping a sub!
Goku isn’t weird.
I think he’s trying to be a father but he has NO CLUE WTF THAT MEANS.
The best he can do is relate it to fighting, the ONLY THING HE ACTUALLY KNOWS.
Goku was a very proud father after the time chamber I think he had 100% faith in his son “as a fighter”. Unfortunately though, he can’t fathom a reality where someone doesn’t like fighting especially his own son.
Problem is Gohan DOES like fighting. That’s the thing. Yes he’s more mild than Goku. But to say he isn’t a fighter isn’t quite the whole truth. Gohan likes to be there for his friends, which requires fighting, also remember in the Buu arc Gohan signed up for the world tournament. Gohan likes to fight. Just not as much as Goku. That’s something both Goku and Piccolo didn’t accurately assess
@@djmaydraws3862 he doesn’t LIKE fighting he likes hanging with his dad and piccolo so that means he’s probably going to something involving fighting.
@@vinsanity3510 He doesn't dislike fighting. He sees it more as a responsibility. He needs to fight because he has the power to protect, so he should. Like Spider-Man "with great power comes great responsibility." I'm sure he has fun sparring and stuff, but he approaches fights against villains very differently than Goku.
@@shmeebs387 exactly. He doesn’t dislike fighting anymore, but he definitely does not like it either. He sees it as a responsibility not like Goku who just loves fighting. Goku in fact absolutely irresponsible because of his love of fighting.
@@djmaydraws3862he literally ask piccolo and goku to go serious against him when they were training prior the androids.
Wow, Cell really didn’t get any kind of Zenkai boost from the senzu bean, huh? Maybe that’s another reason Goku wasn’t so worried?
If they all jumped him and used the senzu beans I think it would have turned out more or less the same. They'd need a team attack with an instant transmission way up into the the air instant transmission out and hit cell with a Kamehameha, big bang, final flash on standby.
all this crumbles when u consider that goku is putting the entire world in danger of being destroyed over "sportsmanship" and "believing in his son". like the earth's wellbeing is insignificant when put next to the sacredness of battle and believing in his son.
Ya i still wont give Goku a pass here, the boys strength is irrelevant no good father had their son fight their battles for them. At Cells weakened state he should have popped a senzu and Goku,Vegeta,and trunks not give him a chance and put the bug down. Thats the practical real world scenario but that dosent Cell(pun intended ik lol)So ppl need to needlessly die in a pointless manner for plot and drama. I dont call him a terrible father but i wont call him a good father either.
Goku gave Gohan a senzu because in his head it would have been very light work for Gohan (and it was once he transformed and got the rage boost on top). His mistake was thinking Gohan had the heart for fighting like he did.
Smirked at "pitch perfect timing"
I would like to think that the reason he gave the been to his enemy is because he wanted his son to feel the experience of an enemy in full power to help him bring out his own full power. Otherwise there’s no sense of danger.
Idk man do you they kind of retconned Gohan? Like all of a sudden he's a pacist when Gohan was always ok with fighting when it meant to protect the earth or the future? I mean how was Goku suppose to know that when Gohan was always eager to train or fight for the right cause?
Oh man. Simply awesome point about “Because Cell let Goku surrender and forfeit his match and was sportsmanlike about it, and that’s really important to Goku”. That’s, I mean, fuck, that’s all you need to understand why he’d do that. That’s just something he would and does do in OG Dragon Ball.
The thing is, his son is weird because he wanted to be there with his dad. He wanted to fight and protect his friends, and for the show to act like that wasn’t the case when he volunteered to go with his dad’s best friend to another planet I don’t know it just seems like a change in character that was done so at the last minute.
Cellf-destruction?
BOO THIS MAN!!!!!!!!
Or girl. Whatever
Class is in session.
Sorry dawg I’m 9 minutes late
In Buddhist mythology, Asura(Vanara included, which are apes Wu Kong/Goku are based off of) don't like receiving aid when in combat. And want their opponents to fight at full strength due to some sort of martial pride and are above slaying a weakened foe. I believe this is why Zorro from one piece also hates receiving aid.
Goku was a great father. His only mistake was not figuring out Gohan's proper trigger to release his full power
You know, the whole thing about Semi-Perfect Cell's explosion really does make you think... I mean, him coming back as Super-Perfect Cell after blowing himself up _might_ play a part in his explosion being so stupidly strong, but... man, them not even trying to make a barrier or anything around him really does seem dumb. It couldn't possibly be that they didn't know how to make a Ki Barrier, because they're all, relatively speaking, Ki masters. And Cell was hardly fighting anymore, so any honor code really should've gone out the window by then... Guess it really is just a "Rule of Cool" thing to have it go the way it did.
Tbf 17 is the only one capable of creating a decent ki barrier like we'd seen to that point and mostly cause he has infinite energy idk if in universe it woulda Been possible to contain it
He isn't a bad father, he just can be a little socially naive. That doesn't make him a bad person by any stretch.
Man not even much gonna lie. On some real shit goku is down to earth as they come. Peep, now this is just a thought. What if Goku was letting Gohan relax so Gohan can settle in the fact that you can only train so much for a foe that you don’t understand. And that if the outcome is evident time together is still something aim for. Taking everything in that brings you thanks is reflection on what motivates an individual to continue to dig deeper. Physical training can only do so much. Time to train the heart and spirit. Because Goku understands his son and understands those bonds make him strong. Therefore enjoy everyone because it’s real why might not enjoy because we might not be able to again if we fail. Could be sensed in silence. However even though goku did give cell a sensu bean. And that’s messed up. But as cell was would Gohan have vanquished cell completely. Goku didn’t anticipate Gohan would become a monster and he compensated it by offering his life for his mistake past, present and future. Free thought
I noticed that he was alpha when he got out of time chamber but then fumbled the fight
He was also nerfed lol
What is the exact song name at the very beginning of Chapter 1 ‘Gokus Critical Options’
believing Gohan can win and knowing Gohan can win are 2 different things. Goku only believed he could win, until Gohan was encouraged to let go and fight to protect lives was it knowing
Goku dying to semi-perfect Cell's explosion is def one of those moments you kinda have to accept for storytelling purposes. And reallt, a lot of moments in Dragon Ball are like that. Think Roshi destroying the moon in OG Dragon Ball compared to how power increases even in that same series. It makes little sense, but it is canon. Toriyama himself said power levels are bullshit. He made that system to make fun of the idea a hero's power could be measured in numbers, when the Z Senshi's true power is fuelled by their passions, their bonds, and desire to protect Earth.
Also, I assumed that stopping a certain level of energy/damage takes exerting an equal amount of ki force. Thats how inertia works in real life. To be invincible Goku would have to constantly maintain a "skin" of ki with planet-busting levels of energy ever second. He's not an Android, he's going to gas out eventually and collapse from exhaustion
I feel like goku dying could be a Catalyst for him becoming ssj2
Goku wanted Gohan to know that he didn't need to always depend on him to save the day. He gave Cell a Senzu that way Gohan wouldn't have seen the victory as a charity, like if Krillin ended up stabbing Vegeta as he crawled into his space pod in retreat. Yeah, he would have technically been the one who killed Vegeta but definitely having the complex that Goku is still desperatly needed. Goku knew Gohan could break on through and push his limits, he can be a great scholar AND be the defender against evil when Goku's time has come. He most likely reflected on the heart virus and how him dying in the future timeline was the definitive reason they failed. Goku always had a plan and found a way to triumph, without him they couldn't succeed so he had to hand the reigns over while he was alive.
It was originally planned for Gohan to take over the series.
Also, keep in mind, the reason why he had a hard time finding the juniors it’s because he wasn’t at full power. He was still exhausted, tired, and weak from the last fight with the main guy.
TBH i Believe if Trunks trained with Gohan and Goku trained with Vegeta things would be more smooth
also if they defeated cell without ssj2 gohan that would lead to a different outcome a weaker Gohan means less energy Majin Buu gets and if Goku is still alive then considering if they revived Vegeta then he will get his Fight with Goku and that will put his mind at ease
which makes the Majin Buu Saga avoidable
the story would be the same but can or cannot be with SSJ3
2:48 thats funny that piccolo thinks that way.. because thats why he trained gohan to fight against the sayians 😂
Goku WAS strong enough, he just didn't realize he needed to destroy all of Cell's cells.
Not weird. He knew he would not always be around to protect Earth and after seeing Gohan's hidden power he knew he was the one. He knew Cell was the needed push to unleash his power the way Frieza unleashed Goku's Ssj form. Not weird and click bait thumbnail
Pretty sure this was an effect of the heart disease on a mental level. Goku realized he was a mortal and tried to get the next generation ready.
He gave cell the senzu to demonstrate sportmanship considering at any time this dude could fly to space and blow up earth.
You are hitting a very important point about fairness/honour, Cell had 0 reason to not blow up the planet or give a week of training. Cell wanted to fight. Take the 2 other main enemy of z, Freeza and Buu, both blew up the planet when things got rough or they stopped caring about fighting.
Is the music from legacy of goku?
I think a fighter's durability is matched by their ki that they can dedicate to that durability and ability to withstand damage. Vegeta was able to be hurt to within an inch of his life by lowering his defenses against Krillin's attack. Krillin was nowhere near Vegeta in strength. Had Vegeta kept his guard up, would Krillin's blast just bounce right off him? Goku had maybe one second, theoretically he could have put his defenses up for it. But, Toriyama wanted Goku to die here, so he did.
What if cell had extra life energy to detonate from all the people he absorbed?
DBZ is the story of Gohan, at least until the end of Cell Saga.
Not gonna lie, I never once thought too in depth on these things cause at the end of the day it's just a show for entertainment. That being said, I don't see outcome 2 even coming close to happening mainly because gohan always had it in him to go ssj2 it just took seeing someone dying in front of him to snap, so tbh gohan seeing trunks die in front of him would've definitely been more than enough especially cause he knew trunks better than 16, and that's only if his dad dying in vain doesn't do it or seeing piccolo die doesn't do it. At that point gohan is mainly a time ticking bomb that cell THINKS isn't worth any concern over since to him ssj2 ain't even a thing and thinks gohan at ssj is all there is.