Indy Style Wrestling
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2017
- DAVE KNOWS Indie or Indy Style Wrestling is very popular among hardcore wrestling fans. But also, that it does have its detractors as well who prefer the WWE style. Today, Dave looks at the concepts and tries to define the hard to define nature of Independent Wrestling and its rich history
- กีฬา
![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #2 SS8 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RMhUgxxD49Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Typical WWE Raw main event match these days:
-staring contest
-collar & elbow tie up
-brief exchange of holds and counters
-punches and kicks
-corner chops
-DIVE
-Brawl at ringside
-Selling
COMMERCIAL BREAK
-Heel applies resthold
-extended period of slow, methodical offensive flurry by heel
-Crowd silent
-Babyface fights out of resthold
-Babyface makes comeback
-Big moves, leading to many false finishes
-DIVE
-Mild "this is awesome!" chant
COMMERCIAL BREAK
-Brawling up the aisle
-Bumps into LED board
-Countout tease, but both it in nick of time
-Someone else's music hits, leading to distraction roll-up finish
-Winner's hand raised, couple of replays then IMMEDIATELY cut away
Very Accurate. Too Sweet!
The hell you been watching.
The Black X Planet Every Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Sami Zayn, Roman Reigns, Finn Bálor and Kevin Owens match on Raw and Smackdown. So yeah, I know exactly what I'm watching.
Lucius Too Sweet no you dont because these last several RAWS never ended up with someone's music hitting lmao.
That's your counter argument? One little aspect not being present doesn't discount the fact a VAST majority of WWE matches are constructed that way, distraction finish or not.
So yeah, argue with me all you like it won't change squat.
Independent Wrestling is the laboratory of professional wrestling. You experiment in the indies, and then take what your results to the big leagues if you get hired by them. Usually it's a good mix, but sometimes you get a bad mix.
Pretty good analogy
No Sir I disagree with your statement about the Indies. As much as I hate to say this and as much as I enjoyed ECW(Pre WWe)It is the reason for a lot of what we have on AEW passing it's self off as Wrestling. So of those guys on their roster haven't even been to Wrestling School and don't plan on going. So here we are Now.
This>>
@@izzymagnesium2205 Do you really like what Both Promotions are doing right now?
Speech +10
The DDT never lost its essence to me. I always thought if anyone other than Jake Roberts or Raven used the DDT, it would not be a finisher. If Jake or Raven did it, then it’s a finisher. Same with the Superkick. If HBK does it, it’s a finisher, if anyone else does it, it’s not. For me, it was always about WHO was using that move, instead of the move itself.
I do agree with that, I've rationalized it in my head that way too. The only reason why the Sharpshooter doesn't end everyone anymore is because Bret or Sting aren't the ones doing it. But still, I still rather they not misuse the move in the first place
shiningwizard327 agreed
This is why they need 'finisher showdowns' winner keeps the move
Bret vs Sting : Sharp Shooter Showdown
@@DaveKnowsWrestling True, so may people apply the sharpshooter/scorpion deathlock wrong, no wonder they can't get a finish. It's like the smash punch in boxing. Unless your name is Razor Ruddick, you're just throwing a sloppy hook.
Don't forget the badass Impaler DDT by Gangrel
this channel is seriously underrated...
keep up the good work...
Thank you so much and I hope word spreads
I was reminded, when you brought up finishers, a story Austin and Big Show shared.
I can't quite remember it all(just look up Austin Big Show overseas story). But what I can remember fairly clearly, was a match they had. Show said how Austin hit the stunner once, and Austin had Show kick out. Show was like "serious?". So, at the 2 and 1/2 count, he did. Austin worked the shock. A few moves later, another stunner. Again, Austin had him kick out, and again Show was stunned(so to speak). Austin kept intensely working the shock and rage. Five more stunners and four more kickouts, Austin finally won. Show said Austin got him over in a way he never expected, and better than had he won.☺
It's one thing to "go over" by winning, but you can also "go over" by making the winner look as though it took everything they had to beat you.☺
Loving the videoes, btw. Kinda binge-watching😀.
That match never aired on TV, Austin wasn't that dumb lol Having an opponent kick out of 5 finishers would have destroyed the stunner as a move and it's exactly what happens in the likes of AEW now. It's just lazy, talentless wrestling.
The main problem with indie wrestling is that every match tries to be a 7 stars match
The no selling is the big issue for me I just saw a man fall off a huge fucking ladder and pancake another dude through a table how the actual fuck are either them standing right now let alone running around like nothing happened just a minute later.
Are you talking about Lio Rush?
I like it but they water down the main event. By the time the main event comes around, you've already seen everything and can't say wow anymore.
I totally get you on that
I’m so happy you did that video with Brian Zayne (WWW) your content is good and in-depth. Dave, I guess you do know wrestling lol. You got my sub bro. Now it’s time to binge watch all of your videos. Thank god I don’t work tomorrow 😁 you’re gonna blow up soon Dave keep up the good work.
Thank you so much and thanks to BZ... it's great to know you like the channel and I am very happy you're here!!
I think your point of view expressed in this video is correct and well stated. I remember the first time I saw lighter weight, acrobatic wrestlers--- it was Jushin Liger and Sean Waltman. I was impressed; it was a breath a fresh air. Several years later, WCW really invested in a robust cruiserweight division and I loved those matches. I do think that many modern wrestlers now have taken those acrobatic spots too far and are neglecting the fundamentals. Like you said, a good balance is best.
We need a Honest Promo on John Cena. Perhaps one for the Cena lover and one for the Cena hater.
I intend to make sure John Cena gets his turn
5:52 love how true this is. Comedy and other "not fit for the mainstream" wrestlers are big in AEW right now
Yes dave agree with u indy style has it pros and cons but right now I love it better than the wwe
Nothing wrong with that.. seems we are on the same page yet again
I agree too
Coming over from Wrestling With Wregret and I have to admit that I'm already liking the videos. Very informative and interesting, keep up the good work!
Hey Welcome!! Thank you so much and very good to know! Glad that you came over from Brian's channel and it's great to have you as part of the team!!
The Indy Style has been changed due to TH-cam. Every match is a advert to get the next booking, or a call from the WWE. Also nobody buys T-Shirts from the boring guy nobody remembers.
All fair points for sure
I honestly sooner watch an independent show than the big time. Especially here in the UK. One of the reasons being it’s easy to get a front row ticket to an independent show. Independent wrestling rules.
A case could be made that AEW is televised indie wrestling, with indie phenoms like Young Bucks, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy and most recently, Danhausen, making up the cast.
My main criticism of Indie wrestling style is that there are too many spotfests that kill off in ring psychology, a majority of Indie wrestlers are cruiserweight spot monkeys that are great in ring workers but lack personality, charisma and a larger than life character, a majority of Indie wrestling matches lack storytelling and make no sense, the high injury rate, the constant no selling, false finishes and the 5 star match rating system.
Great video and very informative you really deserve more subs
Thank you so much Michael!
After listening Dave,It dawned on me that it could exist if the proponents of it used the basics of old school psychology and blend it into the high flying style of today and it might work. Instead of not going to wrestling school or learning what I think is wrestling in my backyard and present it as wrestling and then complain when someone doesn't get it.
I do very much agree that if only the foundations were solid, everything would be great
Really enjoy your channel, keep it up!
Thank you so much and glad you are here
It's so nice to find a wrestling channel that doesn't make me cringe half the time also CHIKARA FTW!!!!!!!
Thanks for being here and for the support! And what's wrong with Chikara?
ftw=for the win. I have been a diehard Chikarmy member for 15 years.
Oh.. I was thinking FTW as in the Taz kind of way
I miss the early 2000s, when indy wrestlers were imitating Strong Style and King's Road, and spotfests were looked down on.
I like your opinions a lot. They are well thought out and explained in an interesting way. Great channel, glad Wrestling with Wregret featured you cause I hadn't heard of you but I'm a subscriber now.
Thank you so much and thanks to BZ for getting me out there. Glad you like the channel and welcome!
Dave Knows Wrestling your welcome. I'm just glad I have another show I like to watch as much as www. And honest promos, cheaper pop culture, and Kay Faye science and really funny ideas. It seems you in fact know wrestling lol.
Thank you! And you like Cheaper Pop Culture?! Yay, someone likes that show!
Dave Knows Wrestling yeah it's pretty funny. I like to hear about the older stuff since I started watching wrestling in the late 90s and didn't know much about those guys like Roddy Piper and Hogan because I was really young and all about Stone Cold and DX. Go suspended from school from flipping someone off and telling someone to suck it but I was only in third grade and didn't know what they meant haha.
AWESOME! That's badass!
Indie Pro Wrestling main source of information in the 80s and 90s was the magazine Pro Wrestling Illustrated (PWI). Known in the industry as the dirt sheets. They also advertised tape trading of Japan & Mexico, kept Kayfabe but inform who’s were rising stars across Indies Japan Mexico WCW and who were leaving the WWF&WCW, and who originally slammed Andre the Giant. The term Five Star matches, which usually going to the long chain matches without outside interferences.
WWF squashing the territory’s of talent, cross country tours which money from indie house shows, and Cable TV. With Vince getting USA and TBS superstation a local uhf station that took advantage of the emerging market cable tv showed it’s local NWA Georgia championship wrestling into World Championship Wrestling. ESPN third tier used to show AWA (85-90)and GWF
(91-94).
Now with Cable taking out the local pro wrestling local uhf Saturday evening spot. The real change when Eastern Championship Wrestling dumps the dwindling name of NWA (Turner bought out NWA Jim crocket promotion and named it wcw) for Extreme Championship Wrestling. PWI magazine would have pages of bloody jade mask barb wire matches and hot pin ups of ecw vixens (predecessors to the divas). ECW also introduce more five Star match materials from The best Giajin, Gringo and local wrestlers from Japan &Mexico who would get sign to wcw, -eddie guerrero dean malenko rey mysterio jericho benoit and WWF brought exposure to ECW so we got more exposure to that kind of wrestling like Sabu, Taz and RVD. ECW getting a PPV and use of the internet wrote the book for TNA first years and Ring of Honor for bringing indie style across tv.
Now with Indie wrestling the main focus is pro wrestling without a Titantron local tv or story sketches the main focus is wrestling and thanks to TH-cam pro wrestling is getting a revise now those old Japanese and Mexican and old territory’s tapes are being put online and we’re seeing more crazy wrestling moves and stars turning guys like CM Punk, Danial Bryan, Young Bucks, Human Tornado, Necro Butcher, Hard Gay and Kenny Omega into household names for marks without the WWE and of a few of them got signed.
Dave, how much influence would you say Puroresu has in the Indies today? I remember it being a very prevalent influence in the early 2000s since many on the scene would go to Japan since all the major companies aside from WWE went defunct. Also, do you think this affected the psychology as well? Japanese Strong Style philosophy tends to be a more "put in everything you got, move past the pain" kind of thought process versus American style which is more of a roller coaster when done right. Thoughts?
I don't necessarily have a problem with Independent Wrestling It's not my thing but I don't dislike it The HUGE problem I have is the entitled attitude their fans and some of them have They were a 6 time LMNOPXW champion so they should be WWE Champion on their first day,anything less is beneath them. Like Colt Cabana and his fans The biggest crowd he wrestled in front of was like 60 people in a gym,he's main eventing in front of 20 people at a car dealership He makes it to WWE and they want him winning the wwe title at Wrestlemania in the main event his first month?
I do agree Taz had no business even being in the title picture that fast but WWE never did him any favors the way they booked him. His first match they did it perfectly and screwed it up every step of the way after.
Taz was totally buried. I do agree though that some indie fans can be too impatient and unrealistic about their guy's place in the industry
FUNNY THAT THIS IS THE MAIN STYLE GOING WHILE WRESTLING IS HAVING ITS MOST LUCRATIVE YEARS…
🔥🔥🔥🔥
Dave love the gremlins reference
Why thank you
I 🤬 hated it when they started spamming superkicks
For me, anything that waters down the superkick as a finisher is okay in my book... up to a point at least
@@DaveKnowsWrestling lulz
Two or three superkicks is one thing
Ten in a match is absurd
Ah, the crowds. SUPER DRAGON! SUPER DRAGON! SUPER DRAGON! (repeat even after he gets in your face and tells you to shut up)
Darlin, you know that was a Rip Rogers tweet- Orton just re-tweeted it. People only cared once Randy tweeted it because no one cares what Rip "enhancement talent for the enhancement talent" Rogers thinks about anything. 😂😂
Yes, Sweetie, I merely said that Randy tweeted it, which he did.. and Orton works better as the antagonist for an Indie vid... but thank you for keeping me honest
Dave Knows Wrestling Aaaand now I feel like one of those obnoxious, smarky types. *beats head against wall* *but gently because I'm vain*
Do not feel bad.. you should know you're good by me
I love independent wrestling. However there is some wrestlers and promotions that get on my nerves. The wrestlers that get on my nerves the most are the ones that had only been wrestling professionally for less than a year and only had like 5 matches and get all pissy that WWE hasn’t called them so they get all bitter and act all smark-ish with a “fuck you look what I can do” attitude. And also the ones that were in WWE and were let go so now they’re back on the indie circuit and can’t help but gotta talk shit in almost every promo they have. And I’m like “Boy shut up! Just wrestle. Wanna show them what they are missing? Do it in the ring with your wrestling instead of your mouth. Cause you come off as a big baby.” And the promotions that get on my nerves are the ones that act like they’re the best but draw like 50 people a show and gotta get guys that were in WWE to appear on their show. They don’t have to be a former world champion in WWE they were there. Examples: Gilberg, Mean Street Posse, Head Bangers.
I totally hear, I do think sour grapes comes across poorly
7:49 nice Gremlins reference
Thank you
I wonder whatever happened to the YOUNGBUCKS and DUSTY’s kids?
Better question is what happened to Generation Me and Goldust and Stardust
💯‼️🔥🤘👏👍
Cool vid. It depends on the Indy. WCPW was good. (Their booker is gone so we'll see.) While I hate the Jr. match with Osprey and Ricochets. I did like Osprey's match with Martain Kirby in WCPW and Osprey's match with Rey Jr. Haven't seen the Vader one. And I've seen some good match's and some fueds in Indy feds. Like Cortney Rush vs Cherry Bomb which led into Courtney becoming well one of the best characters on Impact wrestling right now. This started in Smash wrestling. Still some matches use waaay to many high spots and not enough selling. Or when they sale they don't do it right. Or work a crowd right. But, others are pretty good. And to much flippy sh** can get old. It's like with to much Hardcore matches. They become a fire cracker in a war zone. After a bit it has no impact. If they can hit the big stuff when it matters it can be great. If a guy or gal can sale well then hit the moves right they can be great. It's all about making the crowd pop when you want them too. Some indy wrestlers do this well. Others just turn it into a gym routine. And does the indy promoter know how to book it right. Is the guy or gal calling the match the one that can get a good match out of their opponent. Indy, WWE , ROH, or Impact or Japan or other wrestling country al;l matters if they and the promoter knows what their doing. And how the match was built too. Though some Indy match can turn into what Rip Rogers said. (I blame ECW.) It depends.
Exactly, Indie is such a broad term, but I thought to try as best as I could to sum it all up. And like you, I do prefer some feds over others
When Vince said that he did 2 things. 1: He ruined the wrestling business and 2:He screwed everyone in the future cause he didn't want to pay the athletic commissions.
There are def a lot of ppl who say the same thing
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Well as we agreed before it could work if it was paired with good story telling and ring psychology but it seems that some of the Indies through that out and most of the writers in the WWE seem more interested in writing a tv show than promoting wrestling with some sense. Oh and yes I know wrestling is a work Lol.
I have a good analogy for this. Modern Indy wrestling is like Naruto, a 7/10 story with 10/10 moments.
What's up with the audio? It sounds like you're standing a hundred feet away from the mic in the middle of an empty warehouse.
Umm would you believe that I did it on purpose to give it an Indie feel?
It maybe was true before AEW
Damnn 0:00-0:45 was awesome tbh🔥🔥 .
Btw 100th comment bitches.
Thank Rip Rogers for originating that... and congrats on number 100!
Lol thanks 😬
And R.I.P rogers..
My favorite Indy promotion is Combat Zone Wrestling,IWA MS,Game changer wrestling and IWA Deep South
The indy wrestling style is meant for one purpose - to get over and get notice. There's a lot of spots to garner buzz for the performers and the promotion as a whole.
...Dive
Dive!
The Young Bucks now actually use a lot less dangerous spots then some others in the independent scene.They rely more on working the crowd now.They do some dives but they are not as crazy as some of the other stuff we see now.
That's fair, I'll give you that
Chikara is awesome
Yeah it is!
I strongly disagree with the concept of "move sets". Well, maybe if you're Sakura Hirota, Leva Bates or someone else emulating someone different every other match, maybe then move sets are an acceptable cheat. Otherwise, I think wrestlers should have "styles". Their own personal styles beyond general ones like "strong", "shoot" and such. Personal styles that see them use moves that work for them. The CAW in my video games, those have move sets that are the same every time I push the button unless I manually go to the options menu and change them but flesh and blood pro wrestlers should be far less rigid than that. Rest holds are fine too, just don't make it look like you're resting unless that's the point. If you've been wrestling a long time, against multiple opponents, etc by all means let us know you're desperate for a breather. Otherwise if your hold isn't designed to hurt someone, put them to sleep or pin their shoulders to the mat, make it look like you're trying to get them in a position to do one of those things(or maybe Gorgeous George/exotic stuff, just create the illusion you're trying something). It may not be easy, but it's also not that complicated.
Otherwise I agree with what you had to say in this video.
Interesting points. I don't think we have the same definition of the word moveset, but I think we are coming from a similar place in mentality overall
This style is killing the business
Comedy and cosplay wrestling is new style
I can see that
As a guy who goes strictly to Indy shows, I enjoy the intimacy of the shows. Smaller crowds, smaller venues, makes it more sociable. Heck, I've seen footage of local pros booking a BLOCK PARTY for a kids' high school graduation.
True, the connection you can get with the crowd is something you can never get outside of the indies
@@DaveKnowsWrestling And the connection with the wrestlers. It feels like buddies hanging out. Then a couple of them run off and do something crazy, like a Deathmatch.
Intimacy! That’s the word. I was trying to find the exact way to describe the reason why I love independent wrestling so much.
You forgot Diving
Ah of course!
Indie wrestling is the best style
Both styles are great, might this become a debate
Also they is the loser wrestlers on the indie circuit that have been stuck in small promotions that draw like 20-50 people a show and are mad at some wrestlers that are popular amongst fans all because they don’t like how they present themselves. One example is what happened to Grim, El Hefe Rojo, & Jay Evans from Grims Toy Show at an indie event in New Jersey.
I think we have similar mindsets. I always appreciate the do the best you can and not worry about anyone else
Meh, indie wrestling today seem meh compared to the 2000s Indies scene.
Ya know, I really agree to that. I am not liking where it seems the indie scene is going at this point
So Vince McMahon kind of created the independent wrestling scene?
Vince Sr. if anybody, but it existed before him too
If he didn't "expose kayfabe" in '89, the independents would have never existed in the first place.
And before someone comes up to me with "thuh territories", is having state athletic commissions prohibit the "fun things in pro wrestling" a good time to you?
Randy Orton is right
To be fair, it was a retweet from Rip Rogers. Randy got flack for retweeting it and I think it works better coming from him as an intro to this video
Indy Style < WWE Style
It would be excellent is someone could execute a perfect wrestling style that's somewhere between Young Bucks and Bob Backlund? You could probably even call that person the Excellence of Execution. If somebody like that actually did exist, he would probably be known as the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
That would be great, but there's no way that you could ever make a style that would please everyone
It's at the point now that its influence cannt be denied anymore, WWE buying Evolve shows that. NXT was basically an indie promotion within WWE until recently.
Yep it's the future for sure
I love indy i think its better then wwe. Becuase indy is more like sport and wwe just entertainment
There are a lot of ppl who prefer the indies
Pac vs Pentagon was better than all of Orton bouts in years if ever... Indie.
I can't think of any Orton bout to contest it
like anything indy wrestling has its good and bad points and we have heard it all before and will continue to hear it again and again. i understand that wwe has a certain way of doing things and that isn't a bad thing. the problem is they are often bad at pulling something good and it leaves a sour taste. a lot of this has been blamed on vince as nxt does a much better job than the main roster has in the same time period.
i personally think wwe is consistently under performing and i thinks due to over exposure and the lack of freedom the wrestlers receive. the wwe has a great roster and many of these talents are not displayed in a good light and the ones that are get stale really quick. way back when it was rare to have a wrestlers with more than five 5 championship reigns now there are numerous wrestlers with over 10. i understand that things evolve over time but its not always for the better
Kenny Omega lately has been bugging me. Idk that's him necessarily. Or the ppl he wrestles or what. But on your statement of you feel it should take only 1 finisher n match over.. Omega I swear hits the V-Trigger and 1 Winged Angel like 20 times a match! Yet still. The match goes on! AEW REVOLUTION was a good example of how that plays out. Omega and Hangman Page v Young Bucks.. not to take anything away from any of these guys.. but a solid half hour match they put on was just RIDDLED with false finishes and Finishing moves! It was gettin old and quick... it was a great match. But with ALL THOSE FINISHERS AND FALSE FINISHES! It about took me completely out of the match. My friend and I were getting bored! It was ridiculous.
You get no argument from me, Kenny is a prime example of finishers galore
Omega hits only one 1 Winged Angel per match. No one has ever escaped from Kenny's finisher, only Kota Ibushi.
With the popularity of MMA trying to make pro wrestling look realistic is just stupid.
There has to be something that sets it apart, and the big spots do that like nothing else.
If I want to watch skillful fighting I'm gonna watch UFC because there is no comparison there.
Traditionalists are annoying across disciplines.
I hate this style so much. This style is gonna reek in AEW.
Indy style is trash as it never gets over with the crowd