7 WRESTLING TROPES That Don't Mean What They USED TO
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- DAVE KNOWS that things in wrestling don't always have the same meaning. However, as time has gone on, some things, more so than others, should still mean what they once did. Here is a list of things that mean less in the WWE, TNA, ROH and NJPW than they should.
- กีฬา
![โกหกเธอทั้งนั้น (Pinocchio) - SERIOUS BACON [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/P1HhTYwrR5A/mqdefault.jpg)
For me the MANAGER used to mean so much more.
Not only did you need a manager to build a good stable, but he brought brains and cunning to a match, a means by which to sneak in foreign objects, and as most managers were heels, the babyface was automatically outnumbered when a manager was involved and therefore his heroic comeback meant more or his defeat set up a good revenge storyline.
That's a real good! I should have had that on the list
Ben Dennis dude! I just wrote a mini manifesto on the same topic up there^^^^^^! Great minds think alike, I suppose!
Agreed! This could fix a great amount of the stale, boring and generic scripted promos.
This.
Absolutely. Bobby Heenan, Freddie Blassie, and Mr. Fuji usually played an integral part of their charge's matches. Even Paul Ellering played an important part of the Road Warriors's matches when they were heels
High flying acrobatic wrestlers like Lita. I know she didn't invent the style, but when I was a kid she was the first diva I ever saw throw out a hurricarana. Nowadays everyone and their dog is a Lita.
Yeah.. I am so sick of DIVES to the outside... that alone has been played out
clearspira L
@@DaveKnowsWrestling The very first dive to the outside I saw made me roll my eyes.
The superplex should be the trigger that the match is coming to a close
Agreed.. I hate Seth Rollins' superplex into the falcon arrow
This list is dead on! One thing I'd personally add is managers/valets. In the 80s-early to mid 90s, we had Bobby Heenan, Lou Albano, Freddie Blassie, Frenchy Martin, Jimmy Hart, The Grand Wizard, Sherri, Elizabeth, Sapphire...and they all did their jobs to perfection. The closest we have to that now is the amazing Paul Heyman/Brock Lesnar pairing. Yes, Miz has/had Maryse, and she was phenomenal in her role. She was trained and could take bumps if she had to, and just by being absolutely stunningly beautiful, she could heel it up. Outside of that, there is a major lack of managers and valets. The right mouthpiece could lend more credence to a lower mid-carder, could boost the profile of someone seemingly lost in the shuffle...but again, this kinda circles back to WWE somehow forgetting in the last 10 plus years how to make fans care about more than a small handful of people...sigh.
Managers are a good one too. I agree that the concept of how best to use a manager has become lost, as a whole, within the WWE, especially when there are so many who could benefit from it. Big Cass.. NEEDS a mouth piece, even more now that he's heel
Dave Knows Wrestling yes! His heel promos... feel, I dunno, forced? I dunno if that's the right word. I think the James Ellsworth and Carmella duo is hysterical. Managers for certain women would be interesting. I'd like there to be a "Paul Heyman Chick". I think Natalya would benefit greatly from the heel rub of a Heyman.
Paul bearer?
Agree / Ditto
I agree with everything you said brother...one thing I'd like to add is the tag rope
Oh Dude! Tag Ropes!! Yes, absolutely
What about tag ropes?
AGREED!!!
Good call on the tag rope bro
Yep. Nobody works the tag ropes any more. That's a huge gimmick in selling the tag! Use it! How can you sell the Hot Tag without selling the tag rope!! FFS!
As a wrestling company, here's a good way of balancing things. Divide your total roster equally among scores 0-10 in different categories. Say it's easy and you have 11 on the roster - you get one of each number, for each attribute. Take endurance. Someone gets the 10 endurance, but someone also has to get 0 endurance. Someone also has to get the 5. Everyone else has to take up the other numbers. This forces a balance. You have 22 on the roster? Well then you have two of each number to dole out. You can increase and decrease these ratings (by moving wrestlers up and down charts organized by who gets what rating), but only if what happens on your show provides an actual reason to do so - you can't just do it because "we like this one now". And have only as many different attributes as can actually mean something distinct from each other - no use having likeability at the same time as charisma, for instance (yes they can be distinct but they'd more often be identical).
Now, as to making these attributes mean something - fix storyline and match outcome consequences to them! Someone with higher speed might be shown to outmanoeuvre someone with a power advantage to victory, but they aren't going to be shown to outlift or outpush them to victory. And this is where it gets to the special occasions. Each attribute should have at least one special occasion. Only a wrestler rated a 10 can possibly do it (and they still won't do it anywhere near all the time), and... anyone else never can. For an endurance rating, that's gonna mean kicking out of another wrestler's finisher (or surviving a weapon strike). For a power rating, that's gonna mean some great feat of strength like lifting two people. For a speed rating, it could mean closing off the escape path of a wrestler that's trying to run away from a situation. Stuff like that. Impressive stuff that really can't happen very often in order to mean something.
This'll keep your occasions honest. And if you want a move that can threaten the end of a match but still be shown quite often? Well that's what your wrestler's signiature moves are for, dummy! They should end matches too, that's another thing that should be brought back - it shouldn't *require* a finisher for a match to end. That's way too predictable. A signiature move should be able to do it, as well as pretty much any random move after enough of a beating.
This system would also be a helpful illustration as to what archetypes you are or aren't covering (more archetypes = greater storytelling potential) and could be directly ported to any video games you might make, like... "these are the official stats that mean something" (and not just "everyone's kinda great at everything I guess"). You could easily see, for instance, if two wrestlers were filling exactly the same role, potential-wise. And unless you want to make a storyline out of that (which you could), you could also easily see how you could realistically distinguish between them, and then do things on your show in order to justify nudging that attribute apart and creating that distinction.
Some kind of system like that in order to force consistency, and limit ceiling-pushing. Wouldn't have to be exactly that, but that's what I'd do.
I gotta say coming across these 5 years old videos is nice when I'm in a mood to relearn booking.
1- To me, the only reason a Superplex wouldn't end the match is a double-down situation, where the wrestler delivering it is just as hurt as the one taking it, or at least enough so that crawling over for the pin gave the poor sod who took it time to kick out. A guy powerbombing in the powerbomb-superplex combo has less of an excuse though.
2- The critique of indy wrestling promotions everywhere. To be fair, one of the first matches I saw was Team Cena vs. The Nexus. Problem is, selling isn't booked, so it's not something I have to learn.
3- Schmozzes happen every day now. I don't think a full card on any show happens with no crooked finishes. Nowadays, a schmoz is a classic move from a chickenshit heel, or a manager. It's the default. I don't think it can return to its old status because a heel winning fairly is often kinda bad, especially to end a feud.
4- Yeah, I can relate. But no-selling chair shots is older than my first watch in wrestling. Recently I watched Markyd123's video about Jeff Jarrett taking a Superkick Con-chair-to and still winning the match. That was in 2003. At least I'm sure that can be recovered, but scarcity for foreign objects is key to preserving their supposed power.
5- Oh, yeah, turning at all was different. Hogan and Slaughter were something different. I admit I was guilty of some mad shit. I don't think everyone should stay face or heel forever, but once you turn, turning back should be off the table for three years at least, not three weeks. (This opinion does not count the turn being a huge 'SIKE!' like Daniel Bryan in the Wyatt Family.)
6- And now I understand the distinction between the titles. It is proper important though, that the midcard titles are NOT seen as "eh, it's JUST the intercontinental championship", because when you do, the title has lost value and you need something like a John Cena US Open Challenge to build the title's prestige back.
7- I think the view on kicking out of finishers that is expressed here is... a bit extreme. I'd save finisher kick-outs for PPV matches though. If someone kicks out of a finisher on weekly TV, it just destroys the finisher because it shows a difference in the levels of the wrestlers involved, and if Wrestler#1 can kick out of Wrestler#2's finisher, why did he even take it in the first place, considering he's so much better that he should've countered the finisher, or, even better, squashed him.
Those are my random thoughts.
I love this channel! Keep up the great work
Thank you so much for the support!
This kinda relates to selling, escaping submissions. They crawl to the rope a bit too quickly and too frequently for my tastes. Also heels can’t submit faces anymore. During Natalya’s recent heel run I can’t recall her submitting anyone and she has the freakin sharpshooter which is supposed to be near insta kill.
Wow.. good one. I totally agree with this and yes it bothers me too
I recently watched a Harley Race NWA match against El Halcon from 1979. Oh, the good ol' days! It was a two-out-of-three-falls match. One fall came via an atomic kneedrop. One was via a hanging suplex. One was via a belly-to-back suplex. It was "boring" by today's standards, but if a non-wrestling fan was watching it, they might actually believe it was an actual shoot.
Thank you for saying something about the selling or the lack thereof selling to me because one of the most important things involved in wrestling cuz if I don't believe that that move hurt then what am I doing
Yeah... I've almost given up on it, almost no one sells anymore. Sami Zayn does, but then we never see him
Excellent video. I agree with the Finishing moves part. Now its fair to say that there's no such thing as a finishing move, it's all "signature moves". Back when I first started watching wwe in '99 Gangrel was my first favourite and you know when he hit his inpailar ddt it was lights out lol.
The impaler was a well protected finisher
Excellent video
Dude I know I'm late but I love ur videos man you are good dave knows how to make vids!!!!
Thank you so much and you're not late, you're right on time, welcome aboard!
Dave definitely knows what he is talking about!!!! I'll spread the word about your videos.
Thank you King, that is so kind, thanks for the support. You rock!
On your topic of selling, I think that's a byproduct of the last generation of wrestlers preferring to work heel all the time, because:
- it's easier
- they don't need to sell.
Thus no one knows how to be a good 👶 anymore, and with it, how to sell.
Also, because everyone works heel, you get too many heel/heel matches, (Like on AEW 09/16/20 with Ivelisse vs. ThunderRosa) that look like $h!t because they both want to get all their stuff in, and neither wants to sell.
My favorite Title in Wrestling...the TV Title. You might not see the World Title change hands or be defended on TV, but almost every Saturday night on Crockett/WCW you'd see Arn Anderson or whoever the TV Champion was at the time defend his belt. It was something to look forward to at 6:05 Turner Time.
I love matches where wrestlers try to get there finisher multiply and fail when used right. Match that comes to mind Omega Vs Okada I. Omega tried alot in the match to get his finisher and fail which I feel protects the finisher and makes it look even more dangerous as that makes it look like it would have ended the matching he got it on. But I know loads of match's have tried this and it wasn't executed as well. The story became the struggle for omega to finish the match even in the second match the story was the fact omega could connect his finisher in the first and that's why he lost.
I also remember when dives to the outside and off the top ropes were desperation moves by tried or hurt wrestlers. And if they miss the match was pretty much over
ive been sharing your videos to try to get you more subs
Thank you much.. you must be on fire because I am doing very well. You are an amazing person. Thank you again
I definitely agree about the Superplex.. thats a very dangerous move that should end 99% of matches but were so used to it the move kinda loses the impact of a match. I know Neville used it a few times to end matches on 205 which I thought was cool. Selling is definitely important. Some wrestlers sell so well and believable even smart wrestling fans can debate if they are really hurt or not. Thats when its good (not good being hurt i mean) You schooled me on the wrestling term "SCHMOZ" I know what you mean as far as what it means just didnt know the wrestling term. And yeah finishers arent really protected anymore. I dont agree with once every decade someone can kick out but 90% of the time.. a finisher should end a match. Like really big stars like The Rock, Stone Cold, John Cena, AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Chris Jericho, Seth Rollins.. can maybe kick out of a finisher once in a blue moon on maybe like a big ppv match.. but not like once every match. 90% of finishers should finish a match. Thats why its called a finisher.
Awesome that we're on the same page. I'm sure there are plenty more things that don't mean what they used to outside of this list
Superplex I agree. IC I agree. Finisher? Ehhh. To an extent. I think finishers should end the match most of the time. However, I believe it's boring to always treat them like the end all be all unless it's Batista Bomb level. Or Tombstone. A move like Rock Bottom or FU or most submissions. They really can't be any more furocious than a flying cross body let alone a body slam. I believe it is still should be protected. But, I like the story of finish not being enough. Shouldn't be done nearly as often though. And people shouldn't have one finisher ever. And matches shouldn't end on finishers most of the time. Any big move should be able to get a pin. Not just finishers and roll ups. It takes away any suspense.
If there is one thing that made me fully stop watching WWE. And not counting only caring about Cena. That's the obvious one. But the one thing is the amount of heel turns. It was so forced and didn't ever make sense. Was fun when Michaels went temporary heel. He was so fun. But take Jericho. A fan favorite. Everyone loves him. Style is fun. Yet tries to be a heel anyways. So you take a naturally over Babyface which isn't common to find, and just make him a heel which is extremely common.
Over reliance on heels and misuse of babyfaces are the reason wrestling is boring to me now. And pushing people wrong. And DQs all the time...... And long boring promos........ And killing pushes randomly......... And not catering to what's cool and instead become a cartoon character....... Okay a lot of stuff lol
Fantastic list!
I got another one coming out dedicated to you and yours, thanks for the topic idea
Hell in a Cell used to mean much more. It used to serve as the climax of a feud.
Or either a TLC match or Money In The Bank contest, being put on a major WWE PPV, not it's own monthly (stand alone) show.
The Undertaker, especially in his early years, got accused of no selling despite it being his gimmick. But he wasn’t no selling as much as underselling. His long hair hid his facial expressions and that made it even harder to gauge his reaction to attacks. Mark did a great job with this, selling just enough to look extremely tough but not farcical. Better than the Goldberg head shake.
Yeah his career went downhill for sure, after WM30 I didn't even care
*A WRESTLEMANIA MAINEVENT*
Wow.. sad but true
Hell In A Cell, this match used to mean something. Turning this gimmick match into a yearly PPV definitely watered it down. This match was a last resort to end bitter rivalries, not just thrown together because it's the month of October.
I think that one more thing should be special matches like hell in a cell and tlc. They aren't the same anymore.
That is very true
finishers should be hard to execute and only kicked out of if the wrestler takes too long to pin
Agreed
6:47 the answer to you question is: The Small Package (or School Boy or inside cradle). This move is sacred. This technique is gold.
Crap, I just now realized that almost every single WCW Nitro ended in a “schmoz”
For me, it's a tie between wrestlers having managers and cage matches.
Yeah, good calls on both
2. Was spot on bro! You were right on all points you made. The racism was a good point. If a man commits murder in a hotel, and no one is around to hear it. Does it still count a murder?
Thank you for that. And as for your other point.. I think it depends on how Vince feels about them
Not just the superplex but remember when DDTs were a finisher? Now, guys get back up after being DDTed through tables, on the steel steps, or on solid concrete. If hitting the mat flat backed from a power bomb can end a match then it only makes sense that having your forehead driven into the mat should be a match ender as well.
The DDT is definitely a move that has been watered down. However, at least some guys are trying their best to bring it back
you NEED more subs!
Always ready for more, but really happy for the great ones that I have
Good selling is missing but it doesn't mean it can't be subtle. My favorite sell ever is Jumbo Tsuruta selling Misawa's elbow for the first time. Instead of yelling or screaming, he laid down on the concrete face down for a few minutes. As Tsuruta was the Ace, this made people legitimately concerned for him to the point where they were paying more attention to him than to the match.
Subtle selling still counts, but it's consistency that's the issue
Which match was that in?
I'd say gimmick matches. Cage, Ladder and Street Fights used to be saved as genuine feud-enders, now they're just another step usually in a procession of rematches..
Yeah they mean nothing at all now
I don't usually have a problem with kicking out of finishers as long as it serves the purpose of the storyline but I don't like when it's on so many matches
I can get behind it as a part of a story, but I think that it's so rare for that story to come up
This is GREAT
Thanks!!
Proper selling is a great point. I love Dolph Zigglar, but i swear, you could put him in a figure 4, and he would still grab on to the back of his neck after the match.
That is a great point about Dolph.. I call that the lazy late career Steve Austin sell
btw, just found your channel in the last week or so, and i just can't watch enough. You really know your stuff, and I love that you actually respond. Keep up the great work, Dave and company!
Love your videos man! Just subscribed. Why do you use the Kick, Push instrumental in all your videos?
Thank you so much for the subscribe. I didn't know I was, I was misinformed
Dave Knows Wrestling lol I was just wondering.
With the selling portion all I could think about was Shawn Michaels with overselling against Hogan 😄😄😄
Well that begs the question... "selling" meant making it convincing to the marks. So if over the top selling really selling?
What about Suicide Dives and Planchas? Used to be something broken out maybe once a night. Now you have to have two a match.
Yeah true that and I even think once a night is too much
I give the miz credit for trying to bring the ic title back to that spot but after that not really to a degree
He did do a great job with it
@@DaveKnowsWrestling that's one thing you can argue was the silver lining in the Brock universal title situation it forced wwe to give full focus on the ic belt which wouldn't have happened with the main champion being a full timer
Wins and losses...Now it doesn't matter if you lose 80% of your matches. You can just do well in some sort of tournament or battle royal and get a title shot. Also, you can lose 5 matches to the champ... but until 3 PPVs have passed, you're guaranteed at least 2 more shots at the title. Meanwhile, a guy can go on a 6-month win streak... and not sniff a major push.
The prostitution of the DDT and Superkick. Now, these aren't even transitional or setup moves for a finisher... when at one time, if you got hit with one, you needed help crawling out of the ring minutes after the pin.
Totally agree with you on that
@@DaveKnowsWrestling BTW, awesome videos (though I've only watch 4 so far). I know quite a few people who should enjoy them as well.
Also no selling came out of shoot wrestling I think. It was popular in Japan to prove that you can take the shoot portion of a match.
Well that wouldn't be selling.. it would be actually hurting
Dave Knows Wrestling true unfortunately (see: Shibata vs Okada)
Yes, yes indeed.
I agree about finishers. Roman kicking out of Cenas top rope attitude adjustment immediately was a huge mistake and killed a great match for me. If tour going to kick out of a finisher the ref sgould be distracted a minute after it lands so the kick out isnt immediate.
I agree, I hated the Top Rope AA kick out... but I disagree because I wasn't really enjoying it much before then.. but to each their own
Hogan made a career kicking out of finishers. LOL
wrestling as a whole used to mean more...
post 2000 WWE has been trying too hard to "entertain" the fans (not saying there was no good wresting ), what they don't realize is a great wrestling match is the most entertaining aspect of pro wrestling..
I'm happy they're changing that these days
I agree that things are changing, but I do feel like it's one step forward, one step back sometimes. In a few short years we went from CM Punk and Daniel Bryan to Roman Reigns and Goldberg. However, at least we have Kevin Owens and AJ Styles. So there's always improvement, but there's also always set backs.
agreed but we had Batista and Dwayne around the same time as Bryan and punk
that type of thing has always happened
I'll take Boo-tista and the Rock any day over Reigns and Goldberg
I love dave
You're great too
a ref's authority
Good point
The over use of weapons is the one thing that we can blane Paul Heyman for. As great as his booking ideas in ECW were, the over use of weapons killed their effectiveness.
I hear you... but I also don't. That's a tough call
Good Points
Thanks
To be true and honest I believe the Attitude era was responsible for the downfall of the Intercontinental Championship.That title was the second most important championship back in the day,and it still can be again if the WWE once again treat the title with prestige and respect it had.
Yeah, I definitely think we can say it happened during that time period, but the early stages of it when Austin and the Rock and Shamrock had it were good
I'm a try not to rant but I would want the money in the bank back on wrestlemania. When I was younger that was cool because it was a new concept unheard of before and seeing both brands go at it was insane at the time. Now they dedicate a whole ppv to it and it's not even the main event. Gimmick ppvs should go away as well. The Elimination Chamber and Hell in a Cell should be used as the ultimate way to settle a score.
YES.. TLC, HIC need to go away because they are pointless now
I HATE false finishes too!!!!
YES!!
Bret Hart, still my favorite seller.
Great pick
samy zayn sells pretty good
Hart was great. Much of the time he’d play possum and attack when his overconfident opponent turned his back.
King of the ring
Yeah.. sad how bad KOTR has fallen
It's ok for multiple finishers, but they should be carried off on a stretcher after the match. Or at least more kayfabe injuries.
I'm okay with it as long as multiples are for EXTREMELY rare occasions and yes, it should result in hospitalizations. I remember as a kid, two DDTs and I thought you should be tried for attempted murder
I absolutley hate how the I.C. title is treated these days😠. Also with part timer Brock Lesnar having the Universal belt goin the same way😭.
What's worse is the Universal title is new
Real tag team
True
I think pinouts on finishers should be on big time pay-per-views not on regular Monday and Tuesday shows
I can hear you on that
You need to link your patreon on all your videos to get more subs. Most people wont know u have it
Good advice.. I do need to get on that
In shibata's defence, it's not that he doesn't sell moves in a way that makes the moves seem weak or ineffectual, his face expression and subtle body gestures suggest that he IS in pain(considering his wrestling style, everyone knows he probably actually is...always), but his characterwork demands that he overcomes those moves with ones that strikes even harder
Sincerely, a fanboy
Like I touched on in the video, I know this was part of his story and he doesn't do it all the time, but he is guilty of some very bad no selling. I've seen him take vertical suplexes and just stand straight up after like nothing happened. Also, for old school people like me, the idea is that wrestling moves are supposed to look more painful than they are.. not the other way around. The fact that something might actually hurt and he powers through it is bad to me. My biggest gripe is that he didn't always do this. I think it bothers me because I think he's better than that
Jesus I loathe the table spot!
The announce table has had enough
What I’ll give to a table spot is that it looks cool (besides being way too overused) and can break the fall if done right. Used in a similar fashion to stuntmen falling through stacks of cardboard boxes to break their falls.
For the record, the WWE announce tables are designed to collapse, whereas the folding tables are real, but the steel support frame is removed almost 100% of the time.
Everything you said is now stale is because of one man...John Cena. He’s kicking out of a serious ass kicking and ends up winning. But forget it because he’ll be gone soon, he’ ruined the WWE enough. HELL IN A CELL used to mean something. It was something special and when you saw it you knew you were gonna see something special. Then they bought back BAD BLOOD and that match was always there an no it has it’s own PPV. It was awesome to see Charolette and Banks compete in a HEL IN A CELL match but everyone else is like “meh:. Especially since we’re in the PG era, or more like the rust bucket era.
I miss basic stage design. Less is more WWE. The old Ross set up with just a stage and a titantron was awesome now the stage and the ring setup looks like toys in a child's bedroom
Well I am pretty sure that's cause that's what they're trying to sell
@@DaveKnowsWrestling oh I'm aware, but I still miss it. I think the sets they use look way to over the top
Turns in the current Women's Division are as meaningless as can be, Natalia will change without comment between two matches if Vince wants her to.
Or Sasha and Bayley.
(4:22)
Stop giving AEW ideas!
1st off Match psychology , secondly true emotion being emitted dont happen enough at all anymore too many matches these days have no story and the majority of them dont mean anything to win or lose. Too many matches for the sake of having matches to fill a card. Thirdly, credible challengers ,being champion doesnt matter when you have someone like rollins for example have 3 or 4 title defenses in a row against corbin or even more recently the street profits vs andrade and garza. 4 - feuds that dont lead to anything and where the result leads to nothing like rollins and mysterio right now when rey wins the last match of the feud and wins the feud does that make him a contender for a title or is it on to the next and rollins the loser will get the title match.
Dives and the 30 Day Rule
Whoa! 2 very good answers
Yeah, dives because, well they need to, along with all other highspots, be rare, I mean take Big E's Spear through the ropes for example, there was a point where he did it literally every week. Not to mention it's like your CGI example, the more they're done, the less awesome they are, thanks Generation Me for ruining spots and dives as well as the Super Kick, then there's the 30 Day Rule. That's self-explanatory right there, even in the 80s the champions defended every month, usually on Free TV since only a few PPVs a year
I think title belts are an attraction. Unlike the idiot writers who think they don't mean anything. When I was young the attractions as far as WWE was concerned, were the IC title, World title, Andre the Giant and maybe Roddy Piper. Title belts make the action make sense. When you see wrestlers without goals you'll ask, "why are they fighting?" Then change the channel.
I like the thought process, that the title itself is the attraction. Good thinking
Pay-per-Views, when I was a kid, there were only 4 of them in the WWF, they aren't so special any more now that there are like 20 of them.
AGREED!
Wrestling managers. AEW has tried to bring them back but not consistently. In 2022, CHRISTIAN CAGE could become one of the best, if AEW lets him!
I didn't even view them as managers. I called it the AEW Big Brother Program. It was like all these veterans just holding the new kids by the hand and taking them to the ring and dropping them off at school
I'm so tired of kickingn out of finishers. Im tired of guys kicking out of everything period. So many false finishes now. It's totally out of control. Then guys kick out of finishers on top of a dozen false FINISHES? F that wwe.....
I miss guys getting a pinfall off of nonfinishers
For sure. It makes it seem like anything can happen.
Suicide dives
For REAL... Enough with the Tope
Didn't Hogan and Warrior both kick out of each others finishers at Mania 6? Nine whole years before Austin and Rock.
But they didn't go through with it.. also finishers weren't what they were by the Attitude Era. Don't think it would have had the same impact. During 1990 you could still win off of a non-wrestler. By the end of the 90s it was like the only way you could win. Now you might win off of them. The Attitude Era was the sweet spot for finisher kick outs to mean something... at least in my opinion