BSJ decided to "smurf" by live coaching a 1.6k student in his ranked crusader bracket, heavily micro-managing his gameplay using the techniques and skill learnt from his 9k bracket ranked games to control the map and apply pressure. This was Part 1, with the live gameplay. Part 2 coming tomorrow, with the post-game discussion and full game analysis. Obviously this is not exactly the same as prior episodes, but let us know what you think of this format, any feedback and constructive feedback is welcomed.
Suggested this in the discord, one way we can do future educational smurfs is to have a private lobby with members from the discord, perhaps patreon users, who are within lower brackets. That way BSJ can play in the most accurate representation of those brackets without breaking any surfing rules.
I think it's more like "look at these primitive human, and how he plays" Because the way his brain works is totally different. And you can see it when he micro manages "Look at the map while walking" "Take this wave quickly".
Student did even better. He dropped the branch, picked up neutral item, send it to base and picked up that branch again. No gold waisted and it was fast, but ofc he could have done it even faster.. maybe in the future..
This is such an elegant solution to the "smurfing dilemma". Also I think it's much more interesting than watching BSJ actually smurfing, since it shows clearly that the decision making is the main factor that leads to a win. Very nice Mr.BSJ, keep it up!
Not really man first and foremost cs is pretty average, he never taught how to conserve mana especially on vs whose mana hungry, you can see how he spams his w and e and him not reacting to it, lane pressure at top around 10 mins where theres a fight and theres a siege creep told his student to leave the lane is a bad pressure yeah he cant push with right click but he should at least clear the wave and/or glyph the top and push it ez ..should have rushed faceboots against razor for link either yeah windlace is good but you k ow maybe its an NA thing
@@xtianebernal 15 minutes in his level is already over 90000 thousand, it's like master from hxh awakened gon and killua's nen instantly, this dude is awakening immortal in this herald in 40 min
After the reddit uproar against "ethical smurfing", BSJ comes back with a rare case of a human using 100% of his brain capacity. What a gigachad, I love this!
food for algho. Honestly though, this video is fantastic. I started it without expecting to finish it but actually watched the whole thing. Keep it up sensei BSJ
I wonder if the way BSJ speaks could be part of the problem. "TP bot" sounds perfectly fine to me, but "you are going to TP bot" sounds like I'm somebody's slave.
@@felipec like he’s trying to hypnotize him 😂 yeah I think he just really can’t help it sometimes watching the low mmr unfold infront of his eyes which he can’t really control
This has taught me one crucial thing, farm then fight or fight then farm constantly, don't wait anywhere, don't afk waiting on something just be as efficient as humanly possible and you will climb
Loved watching your thoughts throughout the game, a very clear cut strategy of avoiding your killl threats and dancing around the map forcing them to overextend. Thank you for the content BSJ
A lot of truth in that, I've played with a lot of people who are half or 1/4th of my rank and some of them can play really good, even outlasthit me in lane (perhaps that says more about me though lol) or they generally can make good plays, but they decide to take bad fights, or not help their team, or farm way too much. Or they dont build items that are crucial, and their draft kinda sucks. Those decisions can make a person with a 4k-ish mechanical skillset to be in 2k.
Im not sure if anyone commented this already, it would be nice to see this same coaching mechanism but for different positions (specially the support positions) Really loved this one (both parts), keep the amazing content up ma dude!
I have been following this channel for a long time, ever since I heard about you through GL. I think you're awesome, definitely the best coach for the "average" to "skilled" players out there. Also: This is the FUNNEST, yet educational content you have posted in a long time. Please more!
Top class video. Thank you! Most videos touch upon a single topic. And its easy to think, ok I'll do that. But when you're in game, you either forget that or there are tons of other mistakes you make. This format drives home what people do wrong and what the right thing to do next is. Extremely helpful.
This video highlights an issue that I've had when a high MMR friend tried to coach me: the more the coach tells the student what to do, the more the student's own decision making is shut down. 20:50 he fucks up because he's not focusing on the fight, he's focusing on trying to interpret BSJs instructions. 22:50 is another example. The student obviously knows that he needs BoTs before he can TP, but BJS's insistence that he go "right now" overrides his own decision making and he pushes the button immediately. It's a mistake that happens constantly in coached games - listening to instructions disrupts your ability to think properly. I think, in coached games, the focus needs to be not on winning the game, but on making specific improvements to areas of play that have already been identified as weak. Just trying to win by following the coaches instructions leads to playing "guess what coach is thinking" instead of playing dota.
Ok guys hear me put. BSJ "smurf" apprentice vs. Speeed's "smurf" apprentice. One apprentice per rank, live. The winner of the series gets all the love from Jenkins pudge lol
Man had some slick plays, especially early I think he got a bit nervous later on. The coaching style I think works really well, you can't micromanage in fights and they talked about that in there but map movement and awareness, item decisions, etc. It makes a massive difference to have better movements and item choices.
At that rank with the farm hes having constantly pushing and not dying, he couldve bought dagon and greaves and still win that game. The biggest impact is really what bsj said at the end about pushing and having enemy chasing him around. He was making him constantly taking any opportunity to clear waves, die less, and check what's happening around the mall frequently. But tbh I think the spec and dawn had pretty good response too considering the bracket. Bsj had to tell him to look at the map and the spec and dawn was clearly doing that.
BSJ really great at being coach, my heart aching watching the creep cs during the laning stage. BRO YOUR CS DUDE DO IT PROPERLY, I'll will scream at your ear.
Omg, i waited so mutch for this. The new format of the smurf series is better now becouse i can finally understand the micro details on the gameplay of an 9k player
The anxiety levels on this video are thru the roof!!! My bro is abt 5k, I'm crusader... When he micros me like this, it makes me pully hair out. You learn a lot because the mentality of a higher MMR player is way different from the noobs... But.. I feel the anxiety bruh!!
Damn .. that’s exactly what im doing 😂 I’m Divine 3,my little bro is crusader 1, he always get mad at me cause he feels like im pressuring him too much by watching he play and coach him..
I often watch Bulldog to see how he plays the map and he does what BSJ is telling the student to do. I noticed that after he got BoTs, not one teamfight occurred on the direside of the map since waves were constantly pushed in and the enemy team could not clear waves as fast. Opponents were never able to group up as 5 to take an objective since the other 2 lanes were always pushed in
I like the witch blade on void for that bit of extra magic dot and even though you use spells for farm, the added attack speed is nice for clearing. PLus the armor comes in handy against people like razor
that poor guy was thinking may be it is too much to play the game how can i type all chat... bsj giving him no time.... choking him literally.... he must be taking a long break after this game...
This is so much more informative than watching a replay analysis because hind sight is easy, but this was real time decision making, funny part is making those movement just a tad slower gets you flamed, but making them right wins you the game, interesting,..
I’m climbing now. People in this bracket will flame others even if you’re clearly better than them or carrying. I never rage at these people because at the end of the day I’m climbing and they’ll be where they’ve always been
The first part where BSJ was locked on the students camera was better. Looking around the map is part of their 1.6k mechanics and it is funny to hear BSJ say "show me bot show me bot!" - cool video
Love the work as always BSJ, I’ve learnt a lot from watching you play and teach and just trying to get into that mindset of thinking about the game more. I’d really love if you could somehow do a matchups guide, like obviously not every hero but maybe some general rules of thumb of counters etc because you have such good knowledge of that
Holy shit is this really 1k mmr? What the fuck? Its actually better than archon. Team is literally looking at you, spec dawn uses SS to save or initiate when Void needs shit. Man. Its literally better than archon lmaoo
@@naqi_zariz I got my farm and xp sapped by both support picks and died the 1st time on spec at like 20 mins in and asked why I don't have items T.T. The griefing is next level and I find not having unfriendly players is literally the biggest component for success in this bracket.
Hey Bsj I've taken a break from Dota for a couple months being hardstuck at my MMR.... The emotions are too strong for me, but when I randomly watch ppl like you play and how you dissect the game, and give your best regardless of what ur teammates are doing it maKes me wanna come back idk lol maybe one day, anyways thx for doing what u do man, and keep going and staying humble- Jordan from the uk
I would probably end up in a really bad head space if I had someone coaching me live. It's one thing to look back at my shitty plays and be told that they're bad and I should have done something else and it's another thing to be told in the moment lmao
Underlining from what i see : As a mid, mobile as much as you can if you are not dominating. To split the enemy and prevent them to push. While giving your carry a space
I learned alot from this game only. I mean ALOT. From movement to spellcasting and things and I realized that there is soo much space in lower brackets. Thanks for uploading this vid
Hey BSJ, thanks for the video man, I'm in Herald II, I try to do like this and I won 3 of my 4 games, even tho I still do some misplay, or just wrong tp, but it does help me a lot especially most player in my bracket really like to fight without item. Thanks for the educational video
This is way waaay better than old format, cause we plebs do all this kinda mistakes without we even recognize it, this format let us to fvck up and get commented it's different when you the who smurf it just look flawless without we understand what differentiate us plebs and 9k
BSJ decided to "smurf" by live coaching a 1.6k student in his ranked crusader bracket, heavily micro-managing his gameplay using the techniques and skill learnt from his 9k bracket ranked games to control the map and apply pressure. This was Part 1, with the live gameplay. Part 2 coming tomorrow, with the post-game discussion and full game analysis. Obviously this is not exactly the same as prior episodes, but let us know what you think of this format, any feedback and constructive feedback is welcomed.
This is even better than the original series! How do I apply?
Suggested this in the discord, one way we can do future educational smurfs is to have a private lobby with members from the discord, perhaps patreon users, who are within lower brackets. That way BSJ can play in the most accurate representation of those brackets without breaking any surfing rules.
I prefer this style of smurf, since it shows whats important at macro comp to mechanics, keep up the good content bro
This is a lot more interesting and educational
I liked both versions, but this one is certainly less controversial. Great content!
I love how BSJ uses "It's very interesting" as a substitute to "really fucking bad"
xDDD true
I think it's more like "look at these primitive human, and how he plays" Because the way his brain works is totally different. And you can see it when he micro manages "Look at the map while walking" "Take this wave quickly".
fr hahaha
i was thinking the same thing.. i like how he keep things low key.. no cussin and etc.
LMFAO
BSJ: Drop the branch, just murder the branch, I don't want to fucking see it again, just drop and murder it!
Student:
BSJ: ಠ_ಠ
Student has balls though not going to lie.
YOU HAD ONE FUCKIN JOB
Student did even better. He dropped the branch, picked up neutral item, send it to base and picked up that branch again. No gold waisted and it was fast, but ofc he could have done it even faster.. maybe in the future..
@Anon Commenter Your middle finger
Yeah he did it 😂
This is such an elegant solution to the "smurfing dilemma". Also I think it's much more interesting than watching BSJ actually smurfing, since it shows clearly that the decision making is the main factor that leads to a win. Very nice Mr.BSJ, keep it up!
That's BSJ doing replay commentary on his own game XD
BSJ you have no idea how long we have waited for this Pogies.
I think I've learned more from this format than almost any other format you have done in the past. I'd love to see more of this.
There should be a series of this. Man I’m loving it learning so much
This is an ingenious way to explain the 9k mindset. WP BSJ
Not really man first and foremost cs is pretty average, he never taught how to conserve mana especially on vs whose mana hungry, you can see how he spams his w and e and him not reacting to it, lane pressure at top around 10 mins where theres a fight and theres a siege creep told his student to leave the lane is a bad pressure yeah he cant push with right click but he should at least clear the wave and/or glyph the top and push it ez ..should have rushed faceboots against razor for link either yeah windlace is good but you k ow maybe its an NA thing
@@ardendavid5515 Thats mechanics and micro, not mindset and macro.
you can actually see him picking it up and getting better as the game goes on
Halfway through this comment and i thought it's about the branch.
@@xtianebernal 15 minutes in his level is already over 90000 thousand, it's like master from hxh awakened gon and killua's nen instantly, this dude is awakening immortal in this herald in 40 min
@@SpaceMarine113 Lmao
After the reddit uproar against "ethical smurfing", BSJ comes back with a rare case of a human using 100% of his brain capacity. What a gigachad, I love this!
BSJ using human brain as a smurf Gigachad
bsj is da man
Jesus christ the fact that you unironically speak like that and use the word “gigachad” screams 4chan no life
@@cornhub2445 the fact you commented what you did screams no life who greatly overestimates how much people value his input xd
@@youtubesucksspotifyshallri9600 lol another redditor mad😭
food for algho.
Honestly though, this video is fantastic. I started it without expecting to finish it but actually watched the whole thing. Keep it up sensei BSJ
Food for algho must be 4 or more than 4 words
Same
sayme
Ok after watching im getting anxiety for that poor guy lol. Im an ER nurse and even during codes I dont feel this much anxiety even with intense docs.
LMAO I was getting stressed watching
I wonder if the way BSJ speaks could be part of the problem. "TP bot" sounds perfectly fine to me, but "you are going to TP bot" sounds like I'm somebody's slave.
@@felipec like he’s trying to hypnotize him 😂 yeah I think he just really can’t help it sometimes watching the low mmr unfold infront of his eyes which he can’t really control
@@Brotherbeef I want daddy jamma to slam my cheeks coaching me
was about to get a code blue
This has taught me one crucial thing, farm then fight or fight then farm constantly, don't wait anywhere, don't afk waiting on something just be as efficient as humanly possible and you will climb
Bsj : Get out ! Get out !
*Runs towards enemy* 😂 that got me
After I watched this, I lost 3 straight games and 1 LP game. Thanks BSJ
bot
Loved watching your thoughts throughout the game, a very clear cut strategy of avoiding your killl threats and dancing around the map forcing them to overextend. Thank you for the content BSJ
This is a sick way to do smurfing without smurfing. Proves that majority of low mmr players (including myself) just need better decision making
well obviously dota2 is about decision making. That is what the game is about.
A lot of truth in that, I've played with a lot of people who are half or 1/4th of my rank and some of them can play really good, even outlasthit me in lane (perhaps that says more about me though lol) or they generally can make good plays, but they decide to take bad fights, or not help their team, or farm way too much. Or they dont build items that are crucial, and their draft kinda sucks. Those decisions can make a person with a 4k-ish mechanical skillset to be in 2k.
@@davidbock6276 That and clicking your buttons well
I like this type of "smurf" video. Would like to see a video in offlane.
Yes please do offlane
This is PERFECT CONTENT! More of this live smurf coaching please!
BSJ, this live coaching format is the most beneficial to me. This video was great! Please do more of this, thanks so much!
that ward on inventory burns my eyes, Plant the damn thing please lol.
This series has been one of your best ideas for content. I'd love to see it from the different roles (support especially) to really drive it home.
Man, i need a support version of this xD
TLDR:
have a 9k mindset by having an actual 9k coach you.
Im not sure if anyone commented this already, it would be nice to see this same coaching mechanism but for different positions (specially the support positions)
Really loved this one (both parts), keep the amazing content up ma dude!
who in their right mind would want to play like a 9K if this is what the gameplay/your team mates are like holy fuck
I have been following this channel for a long time, ever since I heard about you through GL. I think you're awesome, definitely the best coach for the "average" to "skilled" players out there.
Also: This is the FUNNEST, yet educational content you have posted in a long time.
Please more!
Love your videos BSJ, they help me through rough times.
Examples of rough times?
@@StriderGG $
Top class video. Thank you! Most videos touch upon a single topic. And its easy to think, ok I'll do that. But when you're in game, you either forget that or there are tons of other mistakes you make. This format drives home what people do wrong and what the right thing to do next is.
Extremely helpful.
13:47
"Gosh that was terrible, f*ck!"
Ogre: Pay attention next time!
This is a fantastic video)) I could really relate to the student and his hesitations at times. Please keep the series up!
This video highlights an issue that I've had when a high MMR friend tried to coach me: the more the coach tells the student what to do, the more the student's own decision making is shut down. 20:50 he fucks up because he's not focusing on the fight, he's focusing on trying to interpret BSJs instructions.
22:50 is another example. The student obviously knows that he needs BoTs before he can TP, but BJS's insistence that he go "right now" overrides his own decision making and he pushes the button immediately. It's a mistake that happens constantly in coached games - listening to instructions disrupts your ability to think properly.
I think, in coached games, the focus needs to be not on winning the game, but on making specific improvements to areas of play that have already been identified as weak. Just trying to win by following the coaches instructions leads to playing "guess what coach is thinking" instead of playing dota.
dude this is one year later but i agree 100%. i cant watch this video, its so annoying. his tone makes me want to rip my skin off lmfao.
BSJ you are a god at coaching!!! Really appreciate your videos.
Gotta be honest, was in a shoes of the student, it's really stressful and takes 100% of your focus to follow directions like this
Ok guys hear me put. BSJ "smurf" apprentice vs. Speeed's "smurf" apprentice. One apprentice per rank, live. The winner of the series gets all the love from Jenkins pudge lol
yesss i want it
lol speed aint got shit
please 💯
speeed is an irrelevant clickbait grifter
@@milesrout
Speeed is a 300 immortal player, what rank are you again?
This is PERFECT CONTENT! More of this live smurf coaching please! thank you
Man had some slick plays, especially early I think he got a bit nervous later on.
The coaching style I think works really well, you can't micromanage in fights and they talked about that in there but map movement and awareness, item decisions, etc. It makes a massive difference to have better movements and item choices.
At that rank with the farm hes having constantly pushing and not dying, he couldve bought dagon and greaves and still win that game.
The biggest impact is really what bsj said at the end about pushing and having enemy chasing him around. He was making him constantly taking any opportunity to clear waves, die less, and check what's happening around the mall frequently.
But tbh I think the spec and dawn had pretty good response too considering the bracket. Bsj had to tell him to look at the map and the spec and dawn was clearly doing that.
This is what I always hoped coaching videos would be like.
Really love this kind of content!
“You’re only scared of razor” as he’s running away from a lvl9 disruptor
BSJ really great at being coach, my heart aching watching the creep cs during the laning stage. BRO YOUR CS DUDE DO IT PROPERLY, I'll will scream at your ear.
Thank you for coaching us 👍
Omg, i waited so mutch for this. The new format of the smurf series is better now becouse i can finally understand the micro details on the gameplay of an 9k player
The anxiety levels on this video are thru the roof!!!
My bro is abt 5k, I'm crusader... When he micros me like this, it makes me pully hair out.
You learn a lot because the mentality of a higher MMR player is way different from the noobs... But.. I feel the anxiety bruh!!
Damn .. that’s exactly what im doing 😂 I’m Divine 3,my little bro is crusader 1, he always get mad at me cause he feels like im pressuring him too much by watching he play and coach him..
This has to be the one of the best contents or realistic coaching and educating dota for low brackets
I often watch Bulldog to see how he plays the map and he does what BSJ is telling the student to do. I noticed that after he got BoTs, not one teamfight occurred on the direside of the map since waves were constantly pushed in and the enemy team could not clear waves as fast. Opponents were never able to group up as 5 to take an objective since the other 2 lanes were always pushed in
Wow, dude, I learned much more than I’ve been playing for many years
I will be so pressured being manage like this HAHA
same man
This seems like a better way for learning? But props to the guy he has a quick reactions and followed bsj quite smoothly
Learned more 4 minutes in than I have from any of your other style videos. This is great.
Very affective coaching right here 5:45 Kekw
I am new to this channel, and I am loving it truly, I am all about aggressive plays and banana's mentality is mad !
nice format, better than bsj playing, I felt bad for the player though. Seems stressful to follow order so directly
I like the witch blade on void for that bit of extra magic dot and even though you use spells for farm, the added attack speed is nice for clearing. PLus the armor comes in handy against people like razor
that poor guy was thinking may be it is too much to play the game how can i type all chat... bsj giving him no time.... choking him literally.... he must be taking a long break after this game...
Idk, that looked fun to me
This is so much more informative than watching a replay analysis because hind sight is easy, but this was real time decision making, funny part is making those movement just a tad slower gets you flamed, but making them right wins you the game, interesting,..
I’m climbing now. People in this bracket will flame others even if you’re clearly better than them or carrying. I never rage at these people because at the end of the day I’m climbing and they’ll be where they’ve always been
The first part where BSJ was locked on the students camera was better. Looking around the map is part of their 1.6k mechanics and it is funny to hear BSJ say "show me bot show me bot!" - cool video
Love the work as always BSJ, I’ve learnt a lot from watching you play and teach and just trying to get into that mindset of thinking about the game more. I’d really love if you could somehow do a matchups guide, like obviously not every hero but maybe some general rules of thumb of counters etc because you have such good knowledge of that
As a 1K this was the most helpful video. Being able to see decision making in real time is so helpful.
imagine being 1k your trash hahaha
@@KidTrigger His trash what? What bout his trash?
@@KidTrigger ah yes you again
It was pretty useful to see the mindset during the coaching, where to go or what to care about
MUCH better than smurfing yourself. Really like this!
No this void spirit is noob it’s much better if bsj Smurf’s himself
Holy shit is this really 1k mmr? What the fuck? Its actually better than archon. Team is literally looking at you, spec dawn uses SS to save or initiate when Void needs shit. Man. Its literally better than archon lmaoo
Bsj doing amazing work man. The student wasn't as bad as I thought he would be too. Mechanic-wise, I thought 1k would've been way worse
Lotta good players in low brackets that are good at like one thing, one role etc but don't cover the rest of their bases
@@josephreynolds2401 yeah, that's a good way of putting what I think of them
@@naqi_zariz I got my farm and xp sapped by both support picks and died the 1st time on spec at like 20 mins in and asked why I don't have items T.T.
The griefing is next level and I find not having unfriendly players is literally the biggest component for success in this bracket.
13:43 BSJ holding his anger. I can feel it, too hahaha
Hey Bsj I've taken a break from Dota for a couple months being hardstuck at my MMR.... The emotions are too strong for me, but when I randomly watch ppl like you play and how you dissect the game, and give your best regardless of what ur teammates are doing it maKes me wanna come back idk lol maybe one day, anyways thx for doing what u do man, and keep going and staying humble- Jordan from the uk
I would probably end up in a really bad head space if I had someone coaching me live. It's one thing to look back at my shitty plays and be told that they're bad and I should have done something else and it's another thing to be told in the moment lmao
Underlining from what i see :
As a mid, mobile as much as you can if you are not dominating. To split the enemy and prevent them to push. While giving your carry a space
This kind of videoes from BSJ it's great, cuz it shows you everything...
17:33 That actually got me hyped that he pulled that off!
I can't help but love BSJ for his neurotic personality
This video taught me way more than any of the educational smurfs.
really well done with the lvl 6 double blink to get away tho that was good micros!
This is so much more educational than the BSJ smurfing series!
I don't even play much anymore but this is one of the greatest videos to learn from
“I’ve got so much to talk to you about. I’m gonna use this to talk about things that people do to lose games”
0:09 He`s right until your team mates start to feed LMAO
Coming from scotts channel an its funny how humble u have to be to take coaching from great players who cant fathom how we make such bad plays
why's it always seem like my mid is afk for the entire game and the enemy's mid is getting coached by BSJ
Probably he is lmao
Smurf is everwhere now
Dude I know that at 33 minutes Disruptor's team was SCREAMING at him for not dropping static storm.
BSJ thank you ! i have learnt a lot . For 9 years i am at 2k bracket. I hope one day i will get out of this bracket.
More of this please! Learned a ton!
This was really cool to watch! More of these please.
Imagine how pressured the student was when bsj was shouting HAHAHHA
Ngl props to the guy actually playing, i bet most cant even play the game with so much backseating. Even of that is the premise of this series.
Best BSJ video I've seen.
Ingenious format
New hands-free mode looks dope
pretty cool video, its fun TPing around the map
I learned alot from this game only. I mean ALOT. From movement to spellcasting and things and I realized that there is soo much space in lower brackets. Thanks for uploading this vid
Bsj keep this up, best video from you so far, we get to hear all the ways you are thinking
I heard the voice in this thinking it was Miniac and went to his DOTA painting video and he confirmed it. How funny!
Hey BSJ, thanks for the video man, I'm in Herald II, I try to do like this and I won 3 of my 4 games, even tho I still do some misplay, or just wrong tp, but it does help me a lot especially most player in my bracket really like to fight without item. Thanks for the educational video
Excellent stuff. Can't wait to see more like this.
You have soo much knowledge about Dota2, and i'm glad i watched this video.
Amazing job from both of you , teacher & student
big thumb UP
This is way waaay better than old format, cause we plebs do all this kinda mistakes without we even recognize it, this format let us to fvck up and get commented it's different when you the who smurf it just look flawless without we understand what differentiate us plebs and 9k
As a thrash 1.8k mmr, i learned so much in this video. Thanks BSJ
love the format! it's way better than the old one. But different mmr brackets- students would also be nice
Great format not ruining games and proving the point
BSJ: run away
Student: astral step towards base but into razor
BSJ: *GRABS HEAD IN HORROR*
“I don’t care about this fight “ 10 seconds later when team mates are dead “ walk to the fight” .. sorry had to say it because I get bad for the guy