ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 เม.ย. 2024
- On the 17th of April 2022, a user known as Skoe99 said that he had verified a level called The Third Variant, otherwise known as TTV. Most of the time, this would just be a small nice verification that would be congratulated, and probably placed on the list in the future. But some members, including myself, knew that this went far, far beyond that. Because just ten days later, The Third Variant would be placed… at the #1 spot on the Challenge List. It was actually the hardest challenge, and possibly hardest level ever made.
And for 5 months, this level reigned on it’s own at the top. It was clear that TTV would most likely remain at the top for a long, long time. Reality always struck. But… this reality wasn’t true. TTV was never the hardest challenge ever verified. Not only was it technically much, much easier, but Skoe had done the unthinkable and hacked the verification… accidentally. This is the story of Skoe99.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
02:14 Skoe's Origin
07:00 The Variants
10:58 False Reality
31:05 Aftermath
MUSIC USED:
Cyclone - Arcanoid
Mario Kart Wii - DK Summit
Celeste - Scattered and Lost
Celeste - Celestial Resort (Good Karma Mix)
Cyclone - Arcanoid
Shin Megami Tensei IV - Tokyo
Celeste - Celestial Resort (Good Karma Mix)
Kirby 64 - Pop Star
Celeste - Resurrections
Metroid Prime - Chozo Ruins Depths
Celeste - Quiet and Falling - เกม
i've seen some people angry at my use of the word 'cheating' or 'hacking' in the title and video, calling it slanderous due to that. i would like to explain why i phrased it this way, as i did not mean for it to be slanderous at all. i will be changing the title to be more aware of this regardless, because i understand the concern, but i'd like to explain myself as well.
i am not using 'cheating' or 'hacking' as an implication that he did it intentionally, or in a way that is malicious by origin. by no means do i think he did it intentionally at all. im using it to describe when a player has an objective extreme advantage over others in an unfair manner. the way in which he verified the third variant, even if unintentional, would be considered cheated and hacked. this is only a negative connotation if you think it is malicious by origin. even though this is the case, i have made sure to emphasise that he did not do it maliciously. that is why the 'cheater' in the title is in quotation marks. that is why the thumbnail points out that he did it accidentally. that is why, by the end of the video, i emphasise the fact that people felt bad for him, and that he should not be given any negativity for what happened.
none of us (myself, blanket addict, syzzi, etc.) were biased against skoe. we knew he did not mean to do it. the conversations in which the possibility of him hacking or other things were not direct accusations; they were theoretical scenarios we were coming up with to try and understand what was happening. the story was about trying to uncover what actually happened, and which scenario is true. in the end, skoe was never actually a cheater in the first place. that is what the actual meaning of the story is if you watch it all.
and since it has been brought up, id like to make it clear that i know skoe commited credit card fraud and scammed people with mega hack (this is not an accusation, there is concrete proof of this). i thought that this would be an extremely out of context and strange situation to include in a video which is completely unrelated to it. im sorry if it seems like im making out skoe to be a good person by the end; this is just the story i wanted to tell.
I felt like you did a good job of explaining that the runs were cheated but the cheater wasn't doing it on purpose. If someone secretly injected a boxer with steroids he still would have had an unjust advantage, even if it was without their knowledge.
11/10 video man, as a non geometry dash player this was an extremely good watch that I couldn't pull myself away from.
completely understandable, nice vid man
Good on you for changing the wording. I also thought that calling it cheating, even in the video felt harsh.
If it's unintentional and unforeseeable for the player then it's not cheating. It's different from people who "accidentally" leave their mods running.
I think your response is fair and addresses the concerns people have with the title.
I think to label someone a cheater, they need to be aware of the fact that they are cheating. if you played a board game with your family and someone broke a rule by mistake you wouldn't call them a cheater. they cheated sure but they didn't mean to and they wouldn't intentionally do it. I cant articulate this well and it is annoying. I just don't think the word cheater is remotely appropriate.
The whiplash I got at that final paragraph lmao
I feel super bad for skoe, imagine learning one day that every major achievement youve had in gd was accidentally hacked and meant basically nothing...
after that he started selling stolen megahack clients lol
@@scullyanka ? whar
@@kab43your comment translates to pp
@@scullyanka damn nvm then
@@scullyanka ???
I have a problem with the way "bugged" and "hacked"/"cheated" are used interchangeably in this video. It's represented like a callout video on a prolific hacker, when really it was a poor victim of an obscure bug.
The verification was not "hacked" - it was simply "bugged." Intent matters.
26:40 especially got me. No he did not cheat. It's stated right before it was a bug. Cheating is malicious in origin
Yeah. Unfortunately, calling Skoe an accidental bug abuser just doesn't have the same shock value and style as saying he cheated unintentionally. People search "Cheater", not "bug abuser", and it would be exhausting for someone to carefully choose each word when they have to pump out content on a deadline, when they may have other time constraints like work, a pet, shopping, etc. What's more is that playing into that shock value retains attention. You won't see anyone scrolling and reading a long comment like mine here. Loaded words matter unfortunately.
I totally agree in principle though, there is a person on the other end of every sentence, and me personally, I do everything in my power to be careful about implications and connotations. But those who make content habitually don't have that same luxury. I'll type out a reply for 5-20 minutes. Re-read the original comment, re-read my reply carefully, then hit send. I don't imagine a content creator can be that careful...
@@snowarmth I wouldn't even say calling it abuse fits. That also largely implies intent. It's obvious there wasn't any intent to cheat or abuse anything, it was completely unknown.
He's a victim. Not a cheater. Not an abuser. Not a hacker. Just a victim of unfortunate circumstances.
@@snowarmth Taking the time to say an extra word or slightly reword something to be less malicious does not take that long. This video sounds like a slanderous hit piece at multiple points, news/drama creators have the obligation to not be malicious when covering topics as to not misinform their audience about a situation.
Bad excuses in an attempt to justify clickbait and intentionally misleading statements @@snowarmth
As a computer programmer, this is something I THINK might be happening:
It's probably an issue with vsync. Let me explain. Most screen recorders such as obs record at either 30 or 60 fps and the way they work is they essentially capture your screen at 60 fps (pretty much as if you used vsync) and if you want the recording to be 30 fps, they just skip every other frame. This is done so that the video doesn't have any vertical tears (this is what vsync is for btw). GD is a mess when it comes to the way its coded, I can imagine. I don't know how GD is coded, but let's add up 2 things: Rob being a solo developer and likely his code isn't the most organized thing, and somebody making a mod for his game, megahack, that can interfere with pretty much everything in game, even to the extend of changing the fps the game is supposed to run at, all the time. It's probably something along the lines of OBS recording the screen at 60 fps (vsync), and because GD is spaghetti code and doesn't mind being run at 60 fps (it's meant to do that anyway, at least it was in 2.1) it just allows it to happen (but only what matters for the recording, so doesn't change the inner physics of the game at 360 fps vs 60 fps, because that doesn't matter as far as OBS is concerned) and megahack isn't coded to counteract on that so just allows it. It has to be a combination of GD being spaghetti and OBS wanting vsync. About the discord screenshare thing, wasn't the video supposed to say that when he screenshared he would be consistent instead of when he watched a screenshare? Either way discord could maybe somehow interfere with that as well, as could watching any video (which mostly play at 30 fps or 60 fps) which plays on a piece of software that isn't made specifically to play videos (so google chrome doesn't count, but discord or idk, something like league of legends client might somehow disrupt that). Overall, it is inconclusive, it needs more testing, the question though is: is it actually all that worth it to go through all the effort?
Hope my message is at least a bit understandable haha
cool
I aint readin all that
edit: i did
@@GDhatenal i'm not
edit: i did
Can someone just explain it to me but simple?
no it was when he was watching a screenshare
Can I just say that blanket addict is the absolute goat for trying to find the root cause of the problem rather than just saying they cheated and putting an end to it.
They remind me of how scientists always push for a why until they hit a brick wall and cant go any further, such dedication to working out the bug is admirable for sure.
real
This is such a fantastic video. Super interesting topic. Thanks for sharing
AEOn WHATT
8 MINUTES AGOOO?
OMG AEON YOU ARE SOOOO FAMOUS I JUST MET YOU OMG CAN I SEND YOU FRIEND PLZ PLZ PLZ???
aeon guy
i agree
this video deserves a far more interesting title, and after watching it really doesn't seem accurate to call Skoe a cheater, either. this is about the bug, this bizarre intractable bug that makes all this happen is so intriguing, i really hope this blows up so people can see it.
any suggestions? (like anything u can come up with)
@@alexplaysgd Can I try suggesting?
'The most mysterious glitch in GD history'
It is just slightly altered version of the current title.
Maybe something like "how a verification found the weirdest Geometry dash glitch"
Very similar but might put less blame on Skoe:
Skoe99: The Most Mysterious "Cheater" In Geometry Dash History
I think the title's fine because the thumbnail explains it well
I am somewhere in this video
0:19
Yeah
Me too 3:33
Same 1:56:24
@@Tex582lol
That bug is so fucking freaky, for all we know there are thousands of players who unknowingly have this bug actively limiting their performance at the game
It makes sense that this bug went unnoticed for so long. It *had* to take an extremely specific context (beating frame perfect challenges), specific setup (be it the mouse or the screenshare), and this community to finally be investigated.
Other players might have been experiencing this constantly but never noticed because they weren't playing precise enough gameplay, or would've just kept it to themselves thinking it was not worth considering.
Since it's an issue GD-specific, it might be the way the app interacts with software or hardware that is causing this. Other computers/input devices/operating systems should probably be tested further.
I was not a part of the exposing team, but I had a feeling something was wrong with skoe. Especially his video about moving the frameperfects until they were consistent. That seemed pretty much exactly the same way as I was making a 60fps frameperfect challenge.
To this day my most popular video abuses this same bug. Being a victim of it was brutal lmao. Also excellent video please make more!!!!!!
the man himself? so glad you found the video, i would've dmed for you to check but i didnt know if you were active anymore LOL
Wait thats what MM stands for? Cool
yo wsp
@@alexplaysgdhi
I never expected gd to have a digital equivalent of wearing down an snes controller making mario kart easier
what is that
@@FlafyDev In snes mario kart theres a trick you can do to make drifting better by pressing right and left at the same time. But you can only do that on a regular controller if the nub behind the d-pad wears down, making it pretty much a natural controller mod that gives people an advantage.
@@Izzythemaker127 interesting
is it allowed?
@@FlafyDevIn super mario kart speedruns there is a seperate category for people who wear down their controller and people who don’t
holy shit ur right.....
i have a decently short attention span, and i actually watched this all the way through. this was very fun to watch, very well edited, and a pretty cool topic. good job on this! :)
Gobsleep
You should improve it
NO@@gmdFrame
Yea
YEAH
This is an insanely good video for a channel of this size, very few gd videos keep me hooked until the end in the modern day. Nice work!
Agreed
W
W matmart
yessir W agreed MatMart
didn't realize he only had 4k subs till you mentioned it
This is genuinely so depressing
Imagine figuring out how your entire life was just a lie
*just a bug*
this needs way more attention. i saw it all the way through and couldn't help but feel bad for skoe
But after that he (Skoe) started stealing other bank accounts and buying megahacks from then and then reselling it for 3$
@@Normal_Account-fr5rw where is the info on that?
@@ZombieWolf2113 Basically, i can't type the link or name of the video for some reason, but i'll try again, you can watch this source, type in search "lintery skoe" and you'' probably see the video, there are english subtitles in there.
@@ZombieWolf2113 I would type the source but it just won't work because my message would get instantly deleted but i'll try again, type lintery and after that type skoe and you'll find lintery's video about that thing (video has subtitles)
@@ZombieWolf2113 I somehow can't type it, i was trying to type the link or title of the video but it just won't let me to .-.
Amazing editing, especially 0:31 gave me chills
On my previous pc I experienced this bug with obs. Back then I had no idea why regular levels felt significantly easier off recording. I somehow figured out it didn't happen in windowed mode so I switched to it. On my current pc it thankfully doesn't happen and I'm able to play on fullscreen. Great video
Great video! I remember when this was verified, and next thing I know he “accidentally cheated” . I had no idea what it meant and was super curious. Glad to have it explained in such an insane video!
the code for this game is genuinely so cooked i remember playing on a gdps and i would get CONSTANT LAG SPIKES until i started a discord screenshare which for some reason fixed the problem.
Sounds more like the discord call forced Vsync on. Without Vsync and a VRR display any frame rate changes will appear as a stutter. Most games people fix this by turning on Vsync which forces the game to only output frames when it aligns with the monitor. Likely the discord call forced it on by default even if you never turned it on in game.
my game literally just wont even start on my pc-no fix has worked
@@lakthederg what kind of hardware do you use? Could be a driver issue.
@@Skylancer727 Intel CPU, AMD GPU
i have a friend of mine who had the same bug and it was due to the obs codec, if u use the x264 codec it causes the bug to occur but it only happens with x264, not with nvenc or any other codec, maybe discord also uses x264 and that was why it maked molten be more consistent when watching a screen share, at least thats what it makes the most sence for me. edit: now that i think about it when i watch a screenshare or start a screenshare myself sometimes i get lagspikes (also it caused the bug to occur on my laptop that only had x264 codec), and the only way of fixing the lagspikes is by changing the discord processor affinity to the 2 of the end on the task manager, maybe that has something to do with x264 because (if im not wrong) it uses the cpu to render the video/screenshare, i did a little bit of testing and the bug didnt occur when i had a nvidia gpu that had the nvenc codec (i was using it with obs), maybe the bug doesnt happen when you have the nvidia codec or any codec that isnt x264. hope it helps!
is there a video of the friend testing on the click precision test and showing that it only happens on x264 codec
@@alexplaysgd I can ask if he has one
If this is true then this could be a CPU timing related bug that is caused by how GD calculates the frame data
Good to see someone had the same thought process as me! It might very well be the means of which the screen is captured that causes odd timing behaviour within the games code.
Maybe what's happening is x264 uses CPU encode/decode. Encoding or decoding at 60 FPS means the CPU has to follow a strict timing aligned with 60 FPS. Then CPU has to send this stream to the GPU to forward to the monitor, potentially effecting the timing of the GPU or v.sync
9:50 It’s important to note that the taiko timings are much easier when they’re evenly spaced. TTV jumps look and sound evenly spaced, but the gaps vary slightly in size
This is so incredibly interesting. I remember when TTV was on the list, and then when it got taken off. I supposed it was hacked, but I didn't know it went this deep A alignment bug with so many layers of complexity, it just is so interesting. Great video.
This is a known issue with some GPUs and mixed refresh rate setups. If you have video playing on a 60hz monitor (youtube, obs preview, discord screenshare etc), it'll mess up whatever's running on the higher refresh rate monitor. It affects games other than GD too, you can feel it in FPS games because moving your mouse doesn't feel as smooth even if the fps is high.
Holy shit this video is so good. Keep up the good work you deserve so much more than 3k subs. Instantly subscribing
This seems like an issue with how Windows interacts with games and where the mouse is to direct resources.
So, for example, if you have Overwatch 2 open, and you have framerate unlimited. When you move the mouse off the window, you go from unlimited frame rate to 60.
This would also explain why it only happens with the mouse, but NOT why it happens only in exclusive fullscreen mode unless the exclusive fullscreen mode is 'fake.' Where it simply restricts your mouse but acts exactly as borderless windowed mode does. This is part of why people recommend that you disable an option called 'fullscreen optimizations' in an application's properties.
Then there's things such as game bar and game mode. Overlay softwares causing issues and pulling resources from the original processes, or changing how the 'mouse' is detected to the application. This is an issue that also happens in the OW2 game, where using an overlay and then going back into the game causes you to lose track of your mouse. This would partially explain why discord screensharing has some effect.
Lastly, window's resource management. If this only happens when someone is recording with OBS, it could be due to the application having a higher priority and leeching resources from the program silently, and/or moving the program's resources to a different core.
So basically: Try changing the application properties to not have fullscreen optimizations on, disable all overlay softwares, use a mouse that doesn't have a sensor, or lower the DPI to nothing(so that you can't move the cursor) and see of this produces more consistent results than what you had before.
This is one of the best documentary style videos I have EVER watched, not just on the topic of geometry dash but in general, I don't normally comment on videos, but I really do look forward to what you create in the future, because the editing, story telling and everything, absolutely peak content creation. I had genuine chills from this video and moments had confused me and thrown me for a loop. I cannot wait to see future videos.
Great video. I am hmwelccomed, the person with the WR at ttv with the bug. I'm the guy that Tatujo mentioned at 14:25 that got 92%. In fact, I might still have all my record videos privated on my original channel. But well, this doesn't matter, I'm glad you made a full analyzing video explaining about the situation on the right way. Congrats! 👏
When i saw TTV was not on the list anymore i was clueless of what happened. People said TTV suddenly was much easier but i never understood how. I watched the video until the end and now the information has came together. W vid.
The words “hacked” and “illegitimate” are used incorrectly. It’s a bug, call it that. Everything that was done was done within the rules of the game, it’s just the game has a bug. This isn’t true currently but it will be true once the bug is figured out, once people figure out how this bug works they can replicate it with their copies as well, that just means the levels weren’t as challenging as previously thought, it’s not “illegitimate” or “hacked” it’s just a bug that the devs would need to fix
I always tried to find a video covering the third variant, only the fact that it was removed, but now there is one, good stuff
27:07 i would also feel bad for him if he wouldn't start scamming people and selling megahack copies with stolen money
i felt like mentioning the credit card fraud would be kind of unrelated but yea
its unrelated and irrelevant in this situation
??? LMAO
I have never been so interested watching a video essay over a video game controversy. This is such a good video, good work man.
i genuinally feel bad for skoe like he put effort in and beat it because of a bug. I deal with the same type of stuff kinda, just irl. It's the same thing as you studying for hours for tests and failing all of them, which I deal with a lot.
Hope it goes better for you.
I'm not to well versed into geometry dash but Love content like this deep diving into themes of cheating or issues with games. You managed to keep my interest throughout the whole 32 minutes and honestly love the way you speak, articulate and explain the story. Earned my sub, hope you keep going and get a better mic because that alone would raise the quality enormously!
This is probably the best gd video I've ever seen. It was really entertaining and interesting and I subbed instantly. I wanna see more gd videos like this. Keep up the work my man🔥
I was always so confused about ttv and how there was a bug that made it basically 60hz somehow. Great video :D
Its worth mentioning that fullscreen renders differently, as it bypasses some of the windowing systems windows uses (and presumably its the same on other systems).
Its also worth noting that input timings are very inconsistist in general on a PC.
Input centric communities like the mouse acceleration discord talk about how reducing the programs you have in the background is important if you want more consistent latency.
Aswell as what drivers are being used.
Interface protocol can also matter.
Also if you have looked into the settings graphics cards have there are alot of settings that reference "input". Which is because the way inputs work goes through many many layers.
Chips, windows, and other computer things were simply not made for consistent latency or "no pauses".
You have to understand that to 99.9999% of everyone else who utilizes computers for a task do not benefit from consistent latencies.
They value low latency and low peak latency, but NOT extremely consistent latency.
And when they do they code the software to be proveable and deterministic.
And they typically use a much simplier foundation like versions of linux. And even then thats many times too complicated of a foundation. Thread context switching prioritization is extremely complicated even in linux for example.
And even then thats when the programs know whats happening. External inpufs are even more complicated because they cannot be predicted. So the way they work is different and there has been changes over time in how they work, between waiting for a jump and rewriting the jump pointer, to polling at certain frequencies, ect.
Because this game seems to be so timing based, I would think its very likely that hardware differences and differences in what programs the players use in the background while playing decently impact who is a "good player" vs not a good player.
I feel really bad for him. He just didn’t know
After that he started selling stolen megahack clients
great vid, this and ur cbf vid are the type of technical content this game's starving for as of rn, imo u've alr proven urself as a notable channel and one i love :)
This is the perfect GD video. It's such a breath of fresh air from typical GD brain rot content or copy paste documentaries. It's genuinely interesting and actually as complicated as you make it seem. And the best part is it's something that’s genuinely significant to the GD community instead of talking about an old impossible levels verification. Well done!
Edit: Also congrats to everyone who put effort into actually dissecting this problem.
The background music and line delivery really add to the atmosphere. Great video
In all three cases, some sort of desktop video capture software was being used, either by OBS or Discord. Also, one had OBS unminimized, meaning the capture was actively being replayed, I think Discord has at least a small monitor of what's being captured when you're screen sharing, and there's also the chance that Skoe99 also had his capture of his gameplay open in OBS.
I might ask for the CPU and GPU models these players are using, as well as their OBS capture settings (and look up what Discord uses). This could have to do with one of a few things:
1) This may be influenced by the type of encoding they're using for the capture (hardware accelerated or software)
2) If it is hardware accelerated, are they all using the same "brand" of GPU (AMD, Nvidia, Intel), as each brand has it's own accelerator
3) This could also have to do with having the captured output being actively represented on your desktop as well, through some weird glitch regarding how that data is managed by OBS/Discord
this video is insanely high quality and i really enjoyed watching it. good shit man, ill keep an eye out for your future content
Really well put together video, I believe you’ll have 10k if you continue to deliver such good content for a few months
Incredible video; summarizes so well an investigation that was so chaotic with new question marks popping up almost every day. It surprises me how quickly it felt like ttv was forgotten; maybe it's because it always *felt* like something was up just because of how ridiculous the level is, even if there was no evidence that the verification was anything but legitimate, but as someone who's been a part of the wider gaming community for basically my entire life, I think this is genuinely the most insane thing I've seen. For me, investigating this bug was both fun just because of the novelty of it and infuriating because of how it felt like we were never getting anywhere. I hope more people, both in the gd community and in the gaming community at large, learn about this situation from this video; I'd love it if someone could find an actual explanation for this bug at some point, even if it seems unlikely with 2.2 being out and the new physics presumably getting rid of the bug.
I love this type of video, incredible work. The closest thing I’ve experienced to this is septagon’s video about the hardest conceivable level in gd, which is a video I return to often because it’s so interesting to me. I sure do love a good hyperspecific documentary about a niche in geometry dash which is already a niche itself in gaming which is already a niche itself in recreational activities. What is life?
This video was very well made, keep up the good work!
i regret not watching this sooner, wow!!! watched every second start to finish, amazing work :)
i love the simplistic intimidation that the third varient had. it sucks that bug happened but it was definitely an interesting period of the game. great video
this video was amazing, and really interesting too. i don't keep up with the challenge community very much so i hadn't heard about this before. can't wait to see what you make next!
Haven't played the game for a little while but this popped up in my recommendations and ended up being very interesting. Good job :)
That must be crushing. I can’t imagine how having all that work ripped away must have felt. o7 to all involved
This is the biggest oopsie daisy I think the gd community has ever seen
Well it feels like something I is establishing an imput buffer, it was mentioned that it can shift by a frame did that fall evenly between moving a frame earlier or later, other questions was it found to happen on multiple different operating systems.my actual next thing to check would be that although the people still had the bug with different mice were the people who had the bug using the same driver on their computer to interpret mouse inputs. The fact the input locking was verified to only happen on GD makes this being the culprit sound unlikely too me but it's still what I would check next.
How wild. It's so weird that this happened. I feel bad for skoe. I hope that, whatever he's doing, he's doing well.
BRO i remember being friends with molten at the time and watching this situation go down. im really glad this strange situation was finally brought to light. what an interesting period of time to witness. I have a feeling it may straight up be a hardware interaction. also the priority tasking when it comes to computers could be an important factor as well. in short you computer treats opened programs as something that needs to be running if not minimized. so it's probably somewhere in the code for GD but it allows geometry dash to be fps limited with another program open. as for the mouse, it depends on what type he was using.
Fantastic video, the topic is really interesting and you do a great job explaining it. Also, props to you for changing the wording of the title and the thumbnail instead of being stubborn and leaving as it was. I personally didn't see it, but saw other comments and your pinned message talking about it, and I think it shows great integrity. I definitely agree with everyone in the comments saying that Skoe shouldn't be labeled as a cheater. A cheater is someone who cheats on purpose, Skoe only cheated accidentally. It's like being able to say something stupid without actually being stupid (this is not a slight at you, it's just the best example I could think of). All in all, great video, and good on you for having integrity and changing the title and thumbnail, I definitely look forward to seeing what else you put out!
This video is so good and I like that finally someone what happened to TTV and skoe99 why he quit why was it removed the video is amazing keep up and dam do I fell bad for skoe all his big and hardworking achivments were demolished by a single bug he didnt know he had
i really liked this video. Usually I can't watch a GD video without getting bored but this one was really interesting. Definitely earned a sub!
Pretty sure skoe felt "if they think im cheating, fuck em, im just gonna sell and buy clients. don't care about the gameplay anymore. fuck their shitty logic of "oh its your mouse, you cheated because of recording using OBS or because of your mouse"." Also, how the fuck does a "version with realigned clicks" work?? That makes it seem like people might as well never play GD at all. Or even bother submitting any runs because the stupid verification rules make it impossible or not worth your time. how's anyone supposed to know what a "version with realigned clicks" is?
About discord screensharing, when i screenshare on discord, i notice the discord priority would automatically change from normal to high in task manager but i don't think this would be the cause of that bug at all though it just doesn't seem to have any correlation in any way
blanket addict mvp of the video, one of the most interesting gd vids i have ever watched, up there with samis sc vid and stormflies element 111 rg vid, i hope this gets you the attention you deserve mr alex
Mouse polling rate.
The moment you said he only experienced this when using mouse and not on keyboard made a lightbulb appear above my head lmao.
I don't remember the specifics, but there is a CS:GO video about how mouse latency works on some devices. Basically it aligns with specific Hz value that is tied to the device's input driver. Search up for mouse polling rate if you want a more specific explanation, im just citing it from memory lmao.
This situation was frustrating to me because I immediately knew it was hacked but couldn't prove how. Just the fact he could do TTV but couldn't do Final Destination made no sense and something was obviously off from the start. Amazing video though, very thorough and explains the situation in an easy to understand way!
How can one avoid this bug? I'm trying to beat Prefinal Perfection (even tried to realign every jump to different positions) but can't be sure because the bug could be still active
Edit, I'm using the arrows on my keyboard on an Inspiron 3511, MHv7.1.1.3, sometimes use OBS (other softwares like ffmpeg or Action just kills the FPS completely)
Such an amazing video, was hocked till the end
this is actually one of the most emotional gd videos ive ever watched LOL this topic is really interesting n this videos great
i hope skoe molten mm9k and everyone is doing well man 💀💀
I think I know why this has happened...
I have a low end computer, so lots of things lag it, if I am in a Discord screenshare and play gd, my game will lag significantly.
I think this all happens because of the slight lag caused by two tabs using fps for each other's purpose.
With a lower frame rate you become more consistent, and two apps being used at the same time lowers your frame rate making jumps more consistent. I have a reason to believe that computer mice lower your frame rate as well.
In the video Molten and mm9000 had always had a second app being used, like Discord and obs.
Hopefully this is helpful!! :)
I wouldn’t be surprised if this bug was related to something with gd itself. it’s coded pretty horribly and it’d probably take a lot of digging (if possible) and obviously rigorous testing. i remember being in a dlhq call when ttv got removed from the challenge list and i got told about most of the things, such as the bug and click precision test, but watching this video said everything that was needed. fantastic work :)
Never thought this would be such an interesting topic, great video 👍
this is actually super interesting, thanks for making this video
Bro has 60fps flowing through his vains, brother made a new challenge and aligned it to 60fps, somehow
Edit: Aslo my hypothesis is that something has to do with geometry dash physics and how it calcualtes outside forces with fps, cuz molten needed to watch a screenschare its most likely something to do with ht physics and the fps caused by these surcumstances, like moltens case somehow interfering with the game, and cuz its only been on geometry dash it pretty much has to be something with the game
super good video!!!! u did itt :3
I'm so happy for u Alex ^^
I think the most likely cause is that his mouse was causing some sort of delay on his pc, and only in gd because most games in general dont work like gd in terms of inputs. Of course, I could be wrong about this, and it could be something entirely else. Either way, this video is great and keep up the good work!
I just saw the entire video, fantastic topic, amazing summarization (is that how you say it?) and great video overall, you earned that subscription without even needing to ask in the video!
I got it. The monitor is set to 59.x hertz, this is a common thing for some monitors and laptops, as there is not always an option for exactly 60, and if it gradually offsets the fps, it could change the numbers displayed in both the first and second test. If the game is locked to 60 or 360, but the monitor is 59 or 354, these will gradually diverge.
Really interesting topic, covered well. I'm wondering if the objection to your use of the cheat cuts mostly down NT/ND lines? But the video itself feels sympathetic, with a well-paced narrative and with an appropriate level of detail. It doesnt paint anyone as a villain, just victims. Great video, subscribed.
wdym by nt/nd lines? sorry
@@alexplaysgd "NT" and "ND" are short for "neurotypical" and "neurodivergent".
Neurodivergent means people whose brains function differently to the "typical" way that most people's brains work.
Autism, ADHD, dyslexia are examples of neurodivergence.
I wonder:
- Are the people who objected to your choice of words are mostly neurodivergent? In this case, autism specifically.
- Are most of the people who understood what you meant are neurotypical? (Not neurodivergent.)
Many autistic people will default to reading things in a very literal way. They can struggle to correctly interpret tone and implication.
Writing content in a way that is clear and accessible to autistic people is a skillset. It has to be very explicit and ideally concise.
Avoid relying on subtext, implication, idioms, etc. You can't rely on "how" you say something to communicate. The meaning has to be clear from the words you use.
Does that make sense?
Honestly this is the most interesting video I’ve ever seen about geometry dash. Fantastic video.
Great video this was an insanely enthralling mystery from a side of the GD community I know nothing about
really great, well made video. keep it up man!
this is likely hook-related. discord and obs screenshares work by "hooking" into the process which makes the game run some extra code to capture the screen. the fact it affects gd when fullscreen also clues me in, as fullscreen is the only mode where screen capture utilities don't use window capture methods (functions, routines, etc. reusable pieces of code). if they were to play in windowed or borderless fullscreen i doubt this bug would occur.
The discord scenerio is especially interesting since it brings potential for baud rate and insanely obscure multi step interactions between recieving lots of data packets and that messing with gd
This video was crazy to watch, I've never ever seen anything like this...
Amazing video, honestly.
That's pretty interesting. There could be various reasons for the input polling rate to be limited to 60hz, and you can likely trigger it in many ways. A lot of windows components and some third-party software is built to assume a 60hz display and thus only polls mouse input 60 times a second. To get a higher polling rate to the game, the entire stack (mouse driver, various windows components, the game, anything that hooks the game like OBS and Discord Overlay, etc) needs to not artificially limit its mouse input to 60hz and that's just never guaranteed. Heck, even AV software could be limiting it. You'll never be able to fully prevent this, so the best you can do is get people to test their own setup and prevent them from playing aligned maps if their setup quantizes their mouse input.
30:50 - the bug is probably due to how windows handles different frames, or, some kind of graphics driver issue. If you have two monitors with different refresh rates it can also sometimes cause shenanigans when using fullscreen modes in games. My best guess would be that in some way, inputs are being tied to the offhand monitor, which would be set to 60hz/60fps.
My immediate thoughts on this bug came to the os. I don't play GD so I don't know whether you can play it on an alternate os like MacOS or Linux based systems. But I could imagine that the os or a specific driver is doing something weird when a game is running and reset the inputs to 60 fps. And that this may contribute to the fact, that some experience it and some do not...
Have the effected players been asked for their Steam System Information (the data that gets sent to Steam if you choose to contribute to the Steam Hardware Survey), and for a Windows device manager report?
• Do they happen to use AMD graphics cards? I vaguely remember the AMD Radeon software having a power saving option that reduced FPS in response to it not detecting user input after a short time (kb, mouse, controller).
• FreeSync or GSync monitors (adaptive refresh rate displays)?
• Do the affected players use Bluetooth wireless mice? Maybe BT input polling rate for mouse clicks somehow is affected by FPS on Windows.
• I've also experienced weird bugs previously when i was running two monitors that had different refresh rates and/or resolutions, especially back when I had a PC with multiple graphics cards (integrated GPU as well as a discrete, gaming one).
• Hardware video encoding/decoding often locks the associated device's framerate to playback or recording speed. It might even be enough to just have a browser tab open with a paused video in the background, depending on browser, hardware, software, drivers, etc. (This wouldn't explain the input polling oddities by itself, but might explain why the bug happens intermittently for some affected players.)
• back in the day, I had a soundcard (remember those?) that used PCI, not PCIe. It would cause the strangest bugs in unexpected areas. If I had the audio sampling rate set to certain values (44.1 kHz?), it would cause my keyboard inputs to become jittery, and my WiFi card would start dropping packets for a fraction of a second every second.
• Gremlins
My new set of ideas includes: Hardware accelleration between Discord and Geometry Dash causing a bottleneck somewhere that stops the computer from reading mouse inputs at a specific time; Geometry Dash being set as high priority in the task manager or windows fullscreen optimization; and testing the various devices using different monitors, a controller, a wireless mouse, a wired mouse, a drawing tablet, and a simulated mouse.
Never knew how this actually worked above just aligning all jumps to 60fps, cool video
Perfect use of celeste music! I love that game and its OST ♥
might be a pc thing, all the circumstances could be traced back to the pc not being strong enough to handle watching a screenshare or obs, and maybe skoe just had an old pc, doesnt really explain why its mouse only but it might be something
1: did it get fixed in 2.2?
2: ask robtop himself to seek the secret
bug probably cant even occur on 2.2 since you need fps bypass, which kinda works in 2.2 but not the same way it did in 2.1
OH MY GOD THIS VIDEO IS LIKE AMAZING?? One of the most entertaining videos I've ever seen about GD, the topic is so interesting, you told the story in such a good way and the editing is exactly what the video needed. I've been knowing you since the tutorial you made for megahack replay and it's crazy for me to now be entertained for half an hour just watching you tell a story
Also talking about the topic, I remember when I came back to the game like 2 years ago watching the verification of this and didn't really understanding it (the fps values, how did Cursed and Trick beat it...), especially the removal of the level some months later. What happened is surreal, it must have felt really really misterious at the time. Feel really sorry for Skoe too, this probably felt terrible.
Real
One idea is that this could be because of RAM.
Considering when recording with OBS or watching a screenshare usually takes up some RAM on a computer, maybe there is something to do with that. Maybe skoe's computer isn't the best with RAM, or it could be that he had some other things open other than GD.
When I play Geometry Dash, I usually only share my screen on discord or watch a screenshare for a short while because the game feels much smoother for me when it's the only thing showing movement on my screen.
man i quit gd like a week before ttv was verified and came back to it like 3 months after they removed it from the list
Geometry Dash players try not to demonize people who did nothing wrong challenge - Difficulty: Impossible
I feel bad for skoe ngl.. imagine getting into the challenge community then when u play most challenge its impossible for you, and then when h try to align it it just became unverified, hacked... Seeing your biggest achievement being a Lie! If he play it normally its impossible, if he align the click then it hacked. Imagine if we were him we were him... It would prolly be so heart breaking.
Great Vid btw.
This kinda reminds me of how for some time windows would lock all games to 60fps as soon as something like OBS preview or a Discord stream was running on the other screen - WITHOUT showing it on any FPS counters, you could just see it.
My theory is that when you have something that records a desktop live then it locks the fps somehow on the mouse and uses it onto the other programs making the level easier, this might be completely wrong or kind of correct
I wonder if this relates to, for example, the nvidia control panel. I know it can sometimes do some wacky stuff to games. I'm not sure if amd would do something similar, but maybe it's worth asking those players what hardware they're playing on. Also, is it only reproducable on windows? Not sure if gd runs in linux, but that might be worth a shot for the players affected by the bug.