I have 1" foam and then 1/2" pressed board of some type that does not have much structure. I think it has Celotex. There is plywood in the corners. My question is related to starting the siding and if I need to make sure that I am able to nail into the studs when nailing in the board and batten siding? I know with 16" centers you will not nail in all pieces into studs, but you could start with a partial piece to make sure that some of the siding is into studs. I am doing the complete front of the house that has windows, doors, and garage doors, so you would never see both ends of the runs without walking the 70' feet between ends.. Thanks for your time.
I’m not sure that it can be made 100% correct, but there’s a couple methods that you could use. What you mentioned (nailing every other piece to studs) would help. Although if the pieces aren’t true to 8” there’s a chance you’ll wander off the studs. If it’s not too late to pad the windows and doors out, you could add some kind of padding horizontally that is nailed to the studs… then you’d have solid nailing on every piece.
Great video thanks. Everywhere I read it says to make sure to have at least 1" to 1 1/4" backing for the nails. You mentioned you only had 1/2" osb. Will that be fine? Was thinking I had to add 1" strap pining to the 1/2" plywood shed I was building. Thanks for your response.
Wherever I’ve installed board and batten no builder ever provided the backing I needed. In Southern NH we don’t get much for high wind speeds or anything too crazy so everyone just nails to the 1/2” osb without many issues. Now if the siding blows off the house then the manufacturer won’t warranty it. Also there might be a possibility that homeowners insurance won’t cover it, but I’m not sure about that? So the answer is if you want to keep the warranty then I’d follow their instructions. And if you’re in high wind areas it is also probably a good idea. Also I know some codes are much more stringent and inspectors will want to know what was done and will withhold Certificates of Occupancy for crazy things (not that you need it on a shed!). If you are going to add 1” sleepers behind the siding, it would also be a good idea to pad any windows and trim out that same 1” as well (and make sure to make it watertight!). This way the siding can still utilize the j-pockets in the windows, doors, etc. Hope this helps!
That is typically what I do as well. Get a feel for the job before you start and see where you need the highest quantity of long pieces - start with that wall and work your way to the wall with the highest quantity of small pieces… sometimes I’m able to side a house with less square feet of siding than the walls actually measure out to be (if you don’t deduct for windows). Sometimes the design of the house is not efficient for siding and you end up having to cut 12’ 6” pieces down to 6’ 6” and you never find a good place for the leftover 6’ piece (I’ve had it happen).
Hi! The app is Construction Master Pro… I think it is the same company that sells the physical calculators at most hardware stores. I prefer the app because I usually have my phone on me.
@siding school, I really appreciate your effort to explain the process so effectively. I am about to remove a 16ft garage door and fill in the opening with two 3.0 doors and 1.0 sidelights (ganged together). centered in the opening. The wall has a peak 20ft high centered on the wall with 9ft sides before angling to the peak. I will be using 8in board and batten siding by Provia. My questions regard determining the angle cut at the peak, setting up a drip edge vs overlapping for the longer runs, and the best way to begin a starter course when it has to cover the height of a cinder block. Would it be appropriate to use the angles previously cut for the horizontal siding the being replaced to set the cut angles? In some TH-cam videos, a drip edge is used to cover the end of the first row of vinyl before going higher. Is that the best way to achieve the best look for my wall or, can the vinyl be overlapped similar to horizontal siding as it goes up? The height from the new door to the peak center will be 14ft and I am concerned about the look of a horizontal line that might end up being only 2-3ft over the new door. 0:06 My dealer recommended a back to back J channel piece but I was concerned about holding water or if drilled to drain it, having the water get behind the lower course. Lastly, I will need to create a concrete sill to match the level of the cinder block that frames the concrete slab so that I can set the door at the right height before building a raised floor. What would you recommend for attaching the J channel to the current cinder blocks and concrete? I am assuming that that method will also require allowance for expansion and contraction. Thanks in advance from a retired vet that is still working on the never ending honey do list! She says it keeps me young….
Thank you for your service! You could definitely use the existing pieces of horizontal gable siding to determine the angle of your board and batten cuts… just use a square and cut off the whole angled part and use the squared part of the triangle held perpendicular to the edge of the board and batten to get your angle. That way you’ll get the reverse angle of the horizontal siding. Then save the new transferred angle to mark the remaining pieces. For separating the upper and lower pieces of siding I would not recommend overlapping the board and batten. The more pieces you put together like that it starts to make the siding go crooked because you lose a tiny bit of reveal on each overlap. Back to back J-Channel is and okay solution also most siding manufacturers make a vinyl ‘H’ lineal that has J pockets on 2 sides they are either 3.5” or 5.5” that you could use instead of double J-Channels I would consider installing this band or H channel lower down at the eave line or bird box level… in either case I wouldn’t worry much about water getting behind the siding… that is a normal occurrence and it will build up until it runs out the ends and/or spills out the face. The nail holes in the back of the J Channel are higher than the face - so it’ll spill out the front before going behind. Now as far as water infiltration in general - you should really have an air vapor barrier that will protect the house underneath, because vinyl siding is not 100% water tight. The air vapor barrier will do most of the work and is your #1 defense against the elements. There are methods to keep more water out by using Z flashing on top of an H channel or in between double J channels, those methods can be helpful but not completely necessary if the weather barrier underneath is properly installed. To connect J-Channel to concrete I would probably use a good hammer drill and masonry tapcons. I would recommend shimming with pressure treated wood as needed to bring in plane with the wall above and continuing the air vapor barrier to below the shims. And yep I would recommend installing the j channel so it can move a little. Hope this helps! Good luck!
Outstanding reply! Thanks. One last question, when fitting the pieces to the wall, how do you handle a transition if the first piece measures out to have a cut in the batten? I understand using a return or undersill for the flat areas but, the batten has me puzzled. Would I need a deeper J channel and the undersill to hold 8n place? Again, thank you.
As long as it doesn’t interfere in another place (like a door) I’d shift the layout 4” over if I’m using a 8” siding piece. That should put the flat part of the siding into the corners on either side while still maintaining even starting and ending reveals. Sometimes there’s little to be done about the “batten” part landing in an opening or against a door - in those cases I would consider getting a dual undersill if additional support is needed.
There’s so much up and down and moving when installing board and batten that I find it easier to not drag a hose around. The staple sometimes interferes with the next piece of siding and I’m not sure stapling meets the requirements from the manufacturer. Also there’s the top staple that needs to be exactly at the top of the slot and it’s hard to get an exact placement vertically with a staple gun.
Water will collect until it spills over the top of the J or runs out either end (some people drill 1/4” weep holes every 16” or so to help drain). Debris will collect over time, so it should be cleaned out periodically. I’m not aware of any methods to not use J at the bottom of vinyl board and batten siding.
Hmmm my siding guy wants to use just drip at the bottom for that reason...guess he installs ends flush to bottom drip and leaves a gap at top for expansion. Will discuss this again with him....
To the best of my knowledge that type of install isn’t going to carry a manufacturer warranty. They say the majority of expansion happens downwards (but I think if it is able to expand upwards it probably will). Maybe he’s working with a brand of siding I’m not familiar with and they have alternative installation options. It’ll probably work out fine as long as it is able to expand and contract. Good luck! 👍🏼
Nice! I might not give you the response you’re looking for but…. It depends heavily on the job, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s like saying “how much does a car cost?”. It depends on how fast you are and how much you need to make to make some profit. Siding is usually figured “by the square”, which is 10’x10’ (or 100 sq ft). If it is really simple, the least I would do board and batten for is $175 per sq with soffit and metal wrap included. The more detailed work could get to $400 a sq or even more. Estimating is a very tricky thing to do and I don’t know if anyone has a perfect formula for it. I usually figure out the job by the square then just follow my gut for how long I actually think it will take and see what I would end up with by the day. If you’re making less than $500 gross income per day working by yourself you might as well go get a job working for someone else and let them deal with all the headaches (depending on where you live in the country that number could change drastically). Good luck!
Thanks! I didn’t really start the channel for self promotion cause I have and can get plenty of work. I guess it’s a good idea to try to expand my business though! Right now I’m recovering from back surgery and I have a month or so before I can do much. I’m working out of Southern NH btw. If you want me to quote a job for you feel free to email at brandonconstructs at gmail.com
@sidingschool any suggestion on how to fix battens that did not clip in? I have 2 battens on a 18' wall that I found were not clipped in. One is flying in the breeze the other is a little more secure but can come apart. I don't want to have to pull the whole thing down.
Hi, Unfortunately I don’t know of a better method than taking the wall back to the unclipped pieces. That being said you could try knife the piece maybe an inch from the nail fin edge of the piece so you could remove about 7” of it - if it is an 8” piece (careful not to cut the housewrap underneath, or tape it if you do). Then take a new piece and cut the nail fin part of the clip off and so it can fit in between the bottom of the next piece and the piece you left behind from knifing the last piece off…. There’s really no way to nail it using this method though, so before installing the new piece it would be a good idea to use a flexible adhesive in the bottom clip of the new piece. (Sorry it’s kind of hard to explain, hopefully you get the idea) There’s no guarantee the new piece will stay in place using this method and unless it is a ton of work to remove the siding I wouldn’t try it. Most of the time ripping siding back and correcting the mistake doesn’t take as long as you’d think. The pieces are mostly cut to size already and they are already physically close to where they need to be. I may try to do a video on this.
Hi Michael, I use the Construction Master Pro Calc app. For me it was worth the money cause I usually have my phone on me and I don’t have to leave what I’m doing to go grab a calculator.
how wide apart are the Battons on this product. The ones at Homedepot I see are only like 5" apart and to me it looked cheap. These seem like they're 8 or so inches apart and has a better look
Hi Heather, I didn’t have to trim around the windows. They are a “New England” style casing with a “J” pocket already built in… there’s a few different styles of trim to choose from for exterior built in trim, I would ask your supplier for choices.
On page 62 there’s what they refer to as Lineal pieces. These might work for you against a window. Also many companies make PVC trim that matches regular wood trim profiles but don’t require painting or upkeep. chrome://external-file/siding-pocket-productcatalog-04-08-664-US-EN-2305.pdf
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I have 1" foam and then 1/2" pressed board of some type that does not have much structure. I think it has Celotex. There is plywood in the corners. My question is related to starting the siding and if I need to make sure that I am able to nail into the studs when nailing in the board and batten siding? I know with 16" centers you will not nail in all pieces into studs, but you could start with a partial piece to make sure that some of the siding is into studs. I am doing the complete front of the house that has windows, doors, and garage doors, so you would never see both ends of the runs without walking the 70' feet between ends.. Thanks for your time.
I’m not sure that it can be made 100% correct, but there’s a couple methods that you could use. What you mentioned (nailing every other piece to studs) would help. Although if the pieces aren’t true to 8” there’s a chance you’ll wander off the studs. If it’s not too late to pad the windows and doors out, you could add some kind of padding horizontally that is nailed to the studs… then you’d have solid nailing on every piece.
board n batten manufacturer please love the look
never mind I found it 13:23 LOL thanks
Yeah, I believe that job I used Certainteed 8” Board and Batten siding. Comes in 10’ and 12’6” lengths.
Super helpful - thank you.
You’re welcome!
Nice job i would like to learn how installing sidding
Thanks! I think you’ll find my channel helpful!
Great video thanks. Everywhere I read it says to make sure to have at least 1" to 1 1/4" backing for the nails. You mentioned you only had 1/2" osb. Will that be fine? Was thinking I had to add 1" strap pining to the 1/2" plywood shed I was building. Thanks for your response.
Wherever I’ve installed board and batten no builder ever provided the backing I needed. In Southern NH we don’t get much for high wind speeds or anything too crazy so everyone just nails to the 1/2” osb without many issues. Now if the siding blows off the house then the manufacturer won’t warranty it. Also there might be a possibility that homeowners insurance won’t cover it, but I’m not sure about that? So the answer is if you want to keep the warranty then I’d follow their instructions. And if you’re in high wind areas it is also probably a good idea. Also I know some codes are much more stringent and inspectors will want to know what was done and will withhold Certificates of Occupancy for crazy things (not that you need it on a shed!).
If you are going to add 1” sleepers behind the siding, it would also be a good idea to pad any windows and trim out that same 1” as well (and make sure to make it watertight!). This way the siding can still utilize the j-pockets in the windows, doors, etc.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for your response. Very helpful and I appreciate your quick response.
I would side all the long walls first and windows and doors toward the end less waste
That is typically what I do as well. Get a feel for the job before you start and see where you need the highest quantity of long pieces - start with that wall and work your way to the wall with the highest quantity of small pieces… sometimes I’m able to side a house with less square feet of siding than the walls actually measure out to be (if you don’t deduct for windows). Sometimes the design of the house is not efficient for siding and you end up having to cut 12’ 6” pieces down to 6’ 6” and you never find a good place for the leftover 6’ piece (I’ve had it happen).
whats the name of that calculator app!
Hi! The app is Construction Master Pro… I think it is the same company that sells the physical calculators at most hardware stores. I prefer the app because I usually have my phone on me.
@siding school, I really appreciate your effort to explain the process so effectively.
I am about to remove a 16ft garage door and fill in the opening with two 3.0 doors and 1.0 sidelights (ganged together).
centered in the opening. The wall has a peak 20ft high centered on the wall with 9ft sides before angling to the peak. I will be using 8in board and batten siding by Provia.
My questions regard determining the angle cut at the peak, setting up a drip edge vs overlapping for the longer runs, and the best way to begin a starter course when it has to cover the height of a cinder block.
Would it be appropriate to use the angles previously cut for the horizontal siding the being replaced to set the cut angles?
In some TH-cam videos, a drip edge is used to cover the end of the first row of vinyl before going higher. Is that the best way to achieve the best look for my wall or, can the vinyl be overlapped similar to horizontal siding as it goes up? The height from the new door to the peak center will be 14ft and I am concerned about the look of a horizontal line that might end up being only 2-3ft over the new door. 0:06 My dealer recommended a back to back J channel piece but I was concerned about holding water or if drilled to drain it, having the water get behind the lower course.
Lastly, I will need to create a concrete sill to match the level of the cinder block that frames the concrete slab so that I can set the door at the right height before building a raised floor. What would you recommend for attaching the J channel to the current cinder blocks and concrete? I am assuming that that method will also require allowance for expansion and contraction.
Thanks in advance from a retired vet that is still working on the never ending honey do list! She says it keeps me young….
Thank you for your service!
You could definitely use the existing pieces of horizontal gable siding to determine the angle of your board and batten cuts… just use a square and cut off the whole angled part and use the squared part of the triangle held perpendicular to the edge of the board and batten to get your angle. That way you’ll get the reverse angle of the horizontal siding. Then save the new transferred angle to mark the remaining pieces.
For separating the upper and lower pieces of siding I would not recommend overlapping the board and batten. The more pieces you put together like that it starts to make the siding go crooked because you lose a tiny bit of reveal on each overlap. Back to back J-Channel is and okay solution also most siding manufacturers make a vinyl ‘H’ lineal that has J pockets on 2 sides they are either 3.5” or 5.5” that you could use instead of double J-Channels I would consider installing this band or H channel lower down at the eave line or bird box level… in either case I wouldn’t worry much about water getting behind the siding… that is a normal occurrence and it will build up until it runs out the ends and/or spills out the face. The nail holes in the back of the J Channel are higher than the face - so it’ll spill out the front before going behind. Now as far as water infiltration in general - you should really have an air vapor barrier that will protect the house underneath, because vinyl siding is not 100% water tight. The air vapor barrier will do most of the work and is your #1 defense against the elements. There are methods to keep more water out by using Z flashing on top of an H channel or in between double J channels, those methods can be helpful but not completely necessary if the weather barrier underneath is properly installed.
To connect J-Channel to concrete I would probably use a good hammer drill and masonry tapcons. I would recommend shimming with pressure treated wood as needed to bring in plane with the wall above and continuing the air vapor barrier to below the shims. And yep I would recommend installing the j channel so it can move a little.
Hope this helps! Good luck!
Outstanding reply! Thanks. One last question, when fitting the pieces to the wall, how do you handle a transition if the first piece measures out to have a cut in the batten? I understand using a return or undersill for the flat areas but, the batten has me puzzled. Would I need a deeper J channel and the undersill to hold 8n place?
Again, thank you.
As long as it doesn’t interfere in another place (like a door) I’d shift the layout 4” over if I’m using a 8” siding piece. That should put the flat part of the siding into the corners on either side while still maintaining even starting and ending reveals. Sometimes there’s little to be done about the “batten” part landing in an opening or against a door - in those cases I would consider getting a dual undersill if additional support is needed.
Thank you for the information and response. I hope you have a great and prosperous 2024!
@@scottrhoades9056 You too!
Not sure if I missed it, but why are you nailing and not stapling the board and batten?
There’s so much up and down and moving when installing board and batten that I find it easier to not drag a hose around. The staple sometimes interferes with the next piece of siding and I’m not sure stapling meets the requirements from the manufacturer. Also there’s the top staple that needs to be exactly at the top of the slot and it’s hard to get an exact placement vertically with a staple gun.
Will water collect and debris collect in the j channel along the skirt (?) ?
Water will collect until it spills over the top of the J or runs out either end (some people drill 1/4” weep holes every 16” or so to help drain). Debris will collect over time, so it should be cleaned out periodically. I’m not aware of any methods to not use J at the bottom of vinyl board and batten siding.
Thanks! I will be watching your various videos.
Hmmm my siding guy wants to use just drip at the bottom for that reason...guess he installs ends flush to bottom drip and leaves a gap at top for expansion. Will discuss this again with him....
To the best of my knowledge that type of install isn’t going to carry a manufacturer warranty. They say the majority of expansion happens downwards (but I think if it is able to expand upwards it probably will). Maybe he’s working with a brand of siding I’m not familiar with and they have alternative installation options.
It’ll probably work out fine as long as it is able to expand and contract. Good luck! 👍🏼
I'm getting ready to do my first batton vinyl job. How do you charge to install this type of siding.
Nice! I might not give you the response you’re looking for but…. It depends heavily on the job, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. It’s like saying “how much does a car cost?”. It depends on how fast you are and how much you need to make to make some profit. Siding is usually figured “by the square”, which is 10’x10’ (or 100 sq ft). If it is really simple, the least I would do board and batten for is $175 per sq with soffit and metal wrap included. The more detailed work could get to $400 a sq or even more.
Estimating is a very tricky thing to do and I don’t know if anyone has a perfect formula for it. I usually figure out the job by the square then just follow my gut for how long I actually think it will take and see what I would end up with by the day. If you’re making less than $500 gross income per day working by yourself you might as well go get a job working for someone else and let them deal with all the headaches (depending on where you live in the country that number could change drastically).
Good luck!
Are you nailing through any foam insulation or just your wrap and sheeting? OSB or plywood?
I am nailing through 1/2” osb. No foam insulation.
Brandon, amazing channel you have. Where is your self promotion? I would love to get a quote from you i think we are fairly close to each other
Thanks! I didn’t really start the channel for self promotion cause I have and can get plenty of work. I guess it’s a good idea to try to expand my business though! Right now I’m recovering from back surgery and I have a month or so before I can do much. I’m working out of Southern NH btw. If you want me to quote a job for you feel free to email at brandonconstructs at gmail.com
@sidingschool any suggestion on how to fix battens that did not clip in? I have 2 battens on a 18' wall that I found were not clipped in. One is flying in the breeze the other is a little more secure but can come apart. I don't want to have to pull the whole thing down.
Hi, Unfortunately I don’t know of a better method than taking the wall back to the unclipped pieces. That being said you could try knife the piece maybe an inch from the nail fin edge of the piece so you could remove about 7” of it - if it is an 8” piece (careful not to cut the housewrap underneath, or tape it if you do). Then take a new piece and cut the nail fin part of the clip off and so it can fit in between the bottom of the next piece and the piece you left behind from knifing the last piece off…. There’s really no way to nail it using this method though, so before installing the new piece it would be a good idea to use a flexible adhesive in the bottom clip of the new piece. (Sorry it’s kind of hard to explain, hopefully you get the idea)
There’s no guarantee the new piece will stay in place using this method and unless it is a ton of work to remove the siding I wouldn’t try it. Most of the time ripping siding back and correcting the mistake doesn’t take as long as you’d think. The pieces are mostly cut to size already and they are already physically close to where they need to be.
I may try to do a video on this.
WHat's the name of the app you use for calculating this stuff?
Hi Michael, I use the Construction Master Pro Calc app. For me it was worth the money cause I usually have my phone on me and I don’t have to leave what I’m doing to go grab a calculator.
how wide apart are the Battons on this product. The ones at Homedepot I see are only like 5" apart and to me it looked cheap. These seem like they're 8 or so inches apart and has a better look
The pieces are 8” wide and the “batten” part is 1.5” so that makes the flat part in between the battens 6.5”.
Did you have to use J trim around the windows? I don't see any and am wondering if there are different styles/sizes of trim. Thanks
Hi Heather, I didn’t have to trim around the windows. They are a “New England” style casing with a “J” pocket already built in… there’s a few different styles of trim to choose from for exterior built in trim, I would ask your supplier for choices.
Is there a website or any other info on the style of j-casing that you used? Thanks
On page 62 there’s what they refer to as Lineal pieces. These might work for you against a window. Also many companies make PVC trim that matches regular wood trim profiles but don’t require painting or upkeep.
chrome://external-file/siding-pocket-productcatalog-04-08-664-US-EN-2305.pdf
nice front door what brand?
The brand is Grand Entry Doors. That is the only arched top door I’ve installed or seen on a residential house.