Reminds me of many many years ago one of my last instruction flights my instructor had me fly to Cincinnati. It was a real mess with a lot of "maintain maximum air speed" and a couple of go arounds trying to fit us between the big boys. After we exited the runway and I stopped sweating my instructor asked "what did you learn from this" I said "not to fly into the busy places in a small plane' He said "exactly!!!".
If going to an intensely busy airport in a light aircraft is so important, find out when it's slow time is and show up then. Know how to recognize your own fatigue level and leave or demand some form of priority.
Retired controller. This pilot got jobbed so many times by these controllers who are apparently afraid to slow down the big jets. Controller skills very lacking. This pilot got jacked around unfairly and was actually apologizing to these idiots. Shame on them.
The pilot could have asked for help or vectors but instead got in over her head and lost control of the plane. The only thing the controller could have done was vectored her out of the airspace.
@@johnmajane3731 Thats the attitude here in the UK, basically GA not welcome, eventually there will be no GA to the delight of some and the dismay of others. The controllers did mess her around a lot - but at the same time, she didn't seem to be able to land with a cross wind and she did not fly the airplane which is #1 rule of aviation. A tight downwind turn without sufficient airspeed is a killer which can creep up on anyone when there is a high cockpit workload and THEY caused that high cockpit workload by lack of judgement, we can clearly see that the jets will beat her to the runway - why do they keep hoping they won't?
Yeah, but her inability to fly the aircraft properly in busy airspace was the main contributor. The cirrus isn’t an airplane for everybody and regardless of ATC, stalling an aircraft is the pilots responsibility.
@@michaelconvery8871 the Cirrus will spin and she lost control. Probably not enough time for it to register and pull the chute, sadly she and her passengers perished.
It could have all been avoided with either word - negative or unable. I know it's a busy airport but she was "cleared to land". The jet should have gone around.
Yes, it could have all been avoided with either word - negative or unable. Unfortunately, the pilot asserted neither. Instead, the pilot demonstrated a tragic inability to maintain an assigned airspeed (expected of a Cirrus) on the first approach, or to fly a simple traffic pattern on the subsequent second and third approaches. I don't see how ATC has any blame here.
@@DanKeys-m8u here are three words that could’ve avoided that: Southwest go around. He had cleared her to land. That means he gave her the runway. It was hers. And numerous times he sent her around because of jet traffic.
Sad, but what country. do we live in? You think a controller is going to have a huge jet go around with all the passengers on board paying money, for a small aircraft? I doubt that would happen. She's trying to land at an airport with HUGE jets flying 80-100mph faster than her... Yeah, in theory she was first, but in the real world, that makes no difference. This would be like me riding my Ebike on the freeway, expecting to keep up with traffic. She stalled - that's why she crashed. Not because she was vectored all around. Fly the aircraft first.
I remember this incident well. I live in the Houston area. As a student pilot in the 1980's, I flew in and out of Hobby many times. I was scared at first but got used to the busyness since I flew often, based across town though. I had go arounds and one time nearly flipped when on short final for 13L with an MD80 holding @90 degrees between 13L and 13R. The hot air was rising into my path. Another time, in a C152, on approach to 13L, told to keep speed up, Gulfstream behind. I didn't slow down soon enough, was asked if I could hold short of 22 due to traffic starting takeoff roll. I foolishly said yes. Skidded to a stop while an MD80 took off right in front of me! That airport has had MANY colisions and incursions over the years. Witnessed several very close calls. Sad what happened to the Cirrus crew.
I cannot understand or believe ATC made the Cirrus abort her landing and go around to give landing priority to following commercial traffic. ATC then followed up with a continuous stream of confusing and diversionary instructions. The FAA owns every bit of this event and is responsible for all who died. The only mistake the Cirrus pilotnmade was in failing to reject ATC's instruction to go around after being cleared to land. Unless other aircraft were still on the runway that real estate belonged to her until she taxied clear of it.
I agree so many confusing instructions runway 4 no runway 35 no go around downwind a no turn base girl must got confused af with airliners flying around also..
@@CanVeyn I whole heartedly agree with you. I was sitting in my recliner watching this video and I WAS CONFUSED. What an absolute shame. Those two controllers must carry a heavy burden because of this pilot's loss of life.
If controller gives instructions that differ from previous instructions they must honor the previous acknowledged instruction. I would have ignored the go around and landed.
I believe the controller was the main cause, instructing her to go around and make unnecessary wrong turns. It's frustrating to watch, as she was complying with his instructions in controlled airspace.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky U r a tool - She followed the controllers insane instructions to a T, until she got so confused by them, she forgot to fly her aircraft. She probably even went down on purpose just to end the insanity once and for all!
Two words fix all of this. "Negative, unable". These guys are accustomed to talking to equipment that comes out of the sky like a Baldwin piano if you need it to. That Cirrus won't do that very well.
@@Flight_Follower you're delusional if you think the pilot wasn't at fault here. She has no business being in a cockpit if she can't even follow basic instruction. She didn't even line up for 35 downwind correctly on the first request
What did the controller do that was ignorant? Where do you control aircraft? What did the pilot do that was incompetent, other than fail yo take the controller's suggestions. And crashing.
The fact that Dana Gray (the pilot) was so polite / patient on the radio and that SHE apologized to the controllers for the "confusion" just hurts. She wasn't the one who was causing the confusion. I hope they all three rest in peace!
Whoever you want to blame, if you are the pilot and the situation is getting too hectic, tell the controller you need what amounts to a time out. Take time to re-evaluate. Landing somewhere else may be the best option.
The abyssmal state of current ATC started with the ATSAP program in the mid oughts. It was the get-out-of-jail-free card instituted because the FAA screwed up the hiring pipeline and caved to DEI. No one was held responsible for operational errors afterwards and this is the end result.
The pilot’s decision to attempt a landing at a very busy Class B airport is perplexing. Why in the world didn’t they plan to land at one of the many GA airports in the Houston area? This was a cluster all around and an accident waiting to happen.
Don’t go into a busy class B. When they start maneuvering you between heavies, tell them you would like to leave the area and land somewhere else or wait until it slows down. If you get into wake turbulence, you’re done for. If you’re in a slick plane, you need to learn how to forward slip with full flaps and get that thing coming down. Get very familiar with your airplane before going into busy airspace.
Or maybe fly sailplanes for a year or two before moving up to power. Soar where there's a ride operation, get some acro training, get the CFIG, fly the tow plane, etc. Aside from becoming a skilled and competent pilot - and having a lot of fun - you can use many glider hours towards the private or commercial ticket. And with all the networking you can do at a glider port you can avoid the expense of a flight school as well. That's what my friends and I all did and it worked out very well for all of us.
NTSB final report is out. Pilot stalled and spun the plane onto the ground due to improper go-around procedure. ATC was a bit too much at times, but not the reason of her crash. She did not have a current BFR, basically no BFR since earning her PPL. Curious if this was a rental or how did Insurance allow this? Very sad, but it’s a reminder that you as the pilot are PIC and need to be safe out there. Unable, or vector for re-sequencing, or landing at a different airport are all very valid options when things are becoming too much. She should have never accepted 35 with those winds.
Unfortunately as a lower time pilot, these are times when we need to be more assertive with controllers. They told her to go back to 4 when she was lined up with 4 they cleared her to land 35 then made it seem that she was in the wrong! This is just messed up!
To all pilots: If you’re having problems with controllers bouncing you all over the place just leave. There are at least 10-20 other airfields within 5-10 minutes of Hobby that could be used. Yeah, the pilot had the right and was even cleared to land but I wouldn’t take being bumped off landings. Yes the pilot was partially responsible for this crash but so are the controllers. They should have bumped one of the other planes and given the small airplane priority. The pilot was flying a sick relative to get treatment at MD Anderson cancer center. What I don’t understand is why the pilot didn’t use one of the other airfields. In the time it took doing go arounds she could have landed with zero pressure at so many other airfields.
I agree, From all the changes in approach these Controllers gave, made it quite challenging for this young girl. This accident should never have happened, the pilot eventually got distracted, was trying for a tight pattern to finally land, I'm sure her left wing dipped past 30 degrees, and she got the sure death situation, every pilot wants to avoid. "Low and Slow". It's ok to do a tight pattern, however keep throttle above normal rpms for that pattern until your out of the turn, and on final. Lots of runway to slow down on.......N552AT signing off!!!
@AlbertHess-xy7ky so.....nothing better than a clean go around!!! As a pilot you don't blow an approach, you determine the factors, and make a decision!
makes me sick every time i hear this one. that poor woman - God rest her soul. I wish she would have broken off and gone to one of 4 nearby airports. I only landed at Hobby once in our Merlin and it was too busy.
I flew through Hobby's radar service area back in the 90's and we were treated like second class citizens as a small light aircraft in a busy airspace. After contacting air traffic multiple times, simply looking to be acknowledged in a effort to avoid collisions with other aircraft, we were finally responded to and rudely told that they were busy and didn't have time for us. Just maintain altitude and heading and proceed with caution. Shortly thereafter, a NASA T-38 flew across our windshield close enough to leave pucker marks in the seat. I'm sure they thought it was funny!
Come on, doing a go around or maneuvering her off of final makes complete sense with a 737 closing behind her. Unfortunately she was a bit high on the 2nd attempt, and I guess on the 3rd attempt.
@@jasonkimball7617 No, they should have sent the first 737 around. She has just as much priority as any jet. She was there first and was lower. Putting her on to a runway with that strong of a quartering tailwind was an even bigger problem. Her mistake was accepting runway 35 to begin with. She needed to instist on a downwind back around for 4.
@@jasonkimball7617 do you know the rules? I started flying in 1974... during my 6 years in the Navy, 3 college degrees, 10 FAA licenses, 8 type ratings, 15 different models, a now 50 year pilot having retired from United Airlines after 30 years as a captain. Retired on B-777-200 ER... what do you think ATC does? THEY SEPARATE TRAFFIC... THEIR ONLY JOB.... THEY FAILED.
@@johnaclark1 she was lower but her airplane was much more maneuverable. And she did NOT have a strong tailwind on 35, the tailwind component was 3 knots. There was nothing wrong with 35, crosswind was 18 knots. Vs 14 knot crosswind on runway 4. Why do you think runway 4 would have been so different?
@@SKIPWOOD-UA777CAPT The rules? I am sorry, I dont know of any rule prohibiting ATC from directing more maneuverable traffic off final when a much faster and heavier jet is right behind them. They did successfully keep separation in my opinion.
Obviously this is highly edited, but I don't put this all on the controller. The pilot is the captain of the aircraft. In my opinion, she was way too passive, and clearly had more airplane than she could handle. As soon as she heard that there would be a 18 knot crosswind on 35, she should have told ATC that she needed 4. Or the other SE runway there. Way to submissive to ATC, for lack of a better word. She has as much right to runway 4 as any airliner. They can go around just as easy as she can.
While the controller was monologing the pilot became overloaded and retracted the flaps too early for the last attempt at a go around and stalled. Many factors at play in this one.
As a courtesy for flow in light aircraft at busy airline terminals I would keep my speed up until short final. The runways plenty long enough to manage speed.
I'm trying to understand why they gave her runway 35 with a direct crosswind. She could have followed the commercial jets to runway 4. This is the second video I've watched where Hobby controllers gave two female Cirrus pilots the run around which ended BADLY!
Flown in to that airport many times in a Cherokee 140 or Cessna 172. There is a lot of much faster traffic to deal with. A slow plane causes the controllers grief. I’m fortunate my instructor Garion S. Taught me how to “Slip”!
Low experience pilot. High Performance plane. Get there itis. Very busy class B airport which she was unfamiliar with. Not familiar with the Houston area, plenty of feeder airports available for GA (she was from Oklahoma). Controller trying to sequence during a period of heavy, fast arrivals. Windy. The full tape is available. The controller did back off on sternness and made an effort to "instruct" her rather than direct her. While maneuvering she lost control at low altitude during a banking turn. Cross wind turned to tailwind. Air speed dropped, stall speed increased. She stalled the plane and spun into parking lot. She lost the basics of flying, controlling the plane. Unfortunately the main issue is her attempting a trip above her capability/experience level. Licensed pilot since 1979.
@@ohiyesa2328 More like a wrongful death. I couldn't tell you what the proper procedure is, or if there is a regulation or not, I am not a lawyer, I'm not legally judging either side. I'm just saying it wouldn't be surprising if this ended up in a wrongful death lawsuit. I'm pretty sure saying "pilot in command" isn't the whole of the law. Responsible doesn't necessarily mean felony or even total responsibility. I would say ATC had a plurality of responsibility for this accident. But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I'm not a jury. My solution is just to replace everyone with computers though.
@@jtjames79 You are 100% wrong. ATC assumes no responsibility, it is ALL on the pilot. This pilot had no business flying into this airport. 3rd generation pilot here as well. If you knew the FAR you would know.
This why you use those (usually abundant) municipal, community and executive air parks located around most US metropolitan areas. Just too much going on at HOU or MIA or La Guardia for your average GA pilot.
@@ZERO-911what on earth does this have to do with DEI? Of course you’re an old hag, spitting out literal misinformation without any facts to back them up.
Seems like approach was handling the sequence to Runway 4 and that was the best runway for the wind. The controller could have given her to approach for sequence, even though they don't like it much. I used to circle small slower aircraft near the base and slip them in when I could. In the end, she was pilot in command going into busy airspace. The controller was not at fault.
Seems to me that she stalled, trying to fly a tight pattern after missed at low airspeed, pitch high and extreme bank angles. Sad she got tossed around that much. Class B's aren't fun in a small GA aircraft.
Pilot had to juggle a terrible runway assignment, gusting quartering tailwind, turbulence, wake turbulence hazards, multiple go-arounds, being stuck low to the ground in high heat, and the indecisiveness of the controller. That is a lot. Most people would be shaking even with only half of that thrown at them.
It seems like ATC should have been more in control of the situation and let her land the first time. The jet overtaking her should have been told to go around. She had clearance to land. ATC turned her too soon on the next go around and she was too high to land.
She was clearly task saturated. Can't think clearly so logical decisions are not made when someone is overwhelmed like simply diverting to a different airport or using the parachute after stalling.
is not the first time theres one video from other cirrus piloted by a woman either,if she was in a turn whit not enough speed thats what hapend no mater which plane your fliyng you go down, so she was in aproach not enough altitude to deploy rhe parachute,a good instructor always told you fly the plane first, the tower is not in comand and sometimes if they don have radar they dont know where your plane is as in this case,aniway what a stupid lost, sorry for her family RIP
@@SteveGad You pull it if you know you’ve got it… but yeah she was clearly task saturated. The video leaves out the main issue was retracting flaps at insufficient airspeed. That plane dropped into that parking lot like a stone. Ideal situation for the parachute when there’s no chance of recovery but sadly again, task saturation is a mf.
She should have said something when they told her to go around after being cleared to land. Then when they told her to keep it tight. She was overloaded. Should have said I want to land the first time. She was not watching her speed and was to busy with ATC and crazy instructions.
If a busy airport does not have a runway layout that allows simultaneous operation of fast and slow aircraft, they should only allow one or the other. (FAR 2024.6.16)
Turn left, turn right. uumm, its going to be tight, careful of turbulance, can you do this, i need you to um, cleared to land runway 4, turn right around about 040 heading, if you can um, cleared to land runway 35, i'll fit you in, they are catching you up, speed up, you might be a bit high, cleared to land runway 4, turn right cleared to land runway 35, straighten up........... Obviously a forensic examination will be needed to determine what was the main cause of this accident.
Yes, the controller was very messy. However, she was flying the plane. Large and busy airports have flow of jets roughly flying at the same speed. Throw a slow single engine piston in the mix and it creates chaos.
This was the second plane crash that I looked at when I first got into researching plane crashes. I felt bad for her she wasn't assertive enough and they should have let her land the one time she was actually lined up that one time and sent the commercial plane around because it can to a go around much faster then her. I read the docket with the plane monitoring data and watched the investigation video on Airsafety Institute. Each time she was forced to go around she kept raising the flaps to get down below the minimum speed allowed. I belive she was going straight the majority of the time or should probably would have crashed early on because she was on the edge of flaps up stall speed. When they made her do that last go around she made the turn without retracting flaps resulting in a stall spin into a car in the parking lot below. Watching it spin and impact was crazy, the impact was so hard it set off the rocket for the CAPS parachute system. She was a fairly low time pilot but her instructor said she was a good pilot but it was so busy and she was trying to get there to see a family member receiving cancer treatment so I'm sure she had a lot on her plate. The CAPS parachute is there because SR series has nasty stall characteristics which result in a violent spin. Based on looking at her speeds if she was at or above 500 feet when it dropped the wing if she pulled the shoot they would have more then likely still been alive because I've seen a mid-air with a SR and he pulled the parachute and both occupants survived it was spilt in half. The other metroliner plane also landed with half the rear portion missing. I wish she would have pulled the parachute yes it sucks to damage the plane but you're life is more valuable let the insurance have it and go buy another one.
As tower controller I can say that finding a gap for much slower aircraft to land between much faster commercial traffic can be difficult. She should orbit before base turn I wait for sufficient gap.
This woman was professional and calm. What happened to her is sickening and I’m sorry but those controllers ought to be seriously reprimanded or fired. Any pilot could have made the same mistake she did and stall spun that plane given the chaotic instructions from ATC. Seriously makes me sick listening to this.
The controller didn’t help but ultimately the pilot is responsible for flying the plane. She could have been more assertive and requested Runway 4 with those winds even if she had to wait for a slot. She could have diverted to a less busy airport.
I remember listening to the disturbing tape following this crash but with no graphics/map to see. Confusing instructions for a pilot who was polite and humble and flying a high-performance airplane in Class B. As I recall, they were flying from Oklahoma to see a critically ill hospitalized relative. Maybe Hobby was closer to the hospital? Seems like the tragegy could have been avoided with a pre-flight decision to fly into a GA airport.
Controllers tend to assume that all pilots are competent and in full control of their aircraft. Student pilots and low-time pilots should inform controllers that they're students or let them know when they're overloaded or highly stressed. Obviously, there's a natural disinclination to do so on the part of pilots, but instructors should encourage them to do so, even declaring an emergency if necessary. Had this lady done so, the controller would probably have assisted her better. Instead, 3 people are dead and he has to live with this accident.
I learned about this tragedy a few years ago, so every time I fly to a busy air space on a Cessna, I don't configure the plane for landing until I'm giving a clear direction to land.
This is sickening. Not enough time to land before another heavy is resulting in yet another go-around. The stress to a GA pilot each go-around increases. How can a GA airplane continually be treated like a ‘left over’? Do controllers have another to take over? Someone to manage when things aren’t working.. and to give better spacing?
Terribly misleading video title. It is the case that the controller made a judgement call that didn't work out on spacing and instructed the Cirrus to go-around, but ATC's job is to "facilitate the safe and efficient flow of air traffic" and it's no less safe and much more efficient for a Cirrus to go-around than it is for a 737 to go-around. It has nothing to do with "rights". As others have pointed out, it's the pilot's responsibility to fly the plane. Pilots need to own these kinds of tragic mistakes and not offload their responsibility to someone who's not in the cockpit. If you can't see how this pilot bears the overwhelming burden of fault for this outcome, then please avoid any operations within a cockpit yourself, for everyone's sake. There is no expectation on any pilot or any controller's part that conducting a go-around is anything other than a routine, and in many cases preferable, flight maneuver. There is no pilot or investigator that will contribute a "go-around" as the principle cause of an accident in a similar scenario. This is clearly an inability to handle the increased workload related to high density traffic airspaces and no doubt there were external pressure factors aggravating the pilot's fitness to fly. They call the SR20 series a technically advanced aircraft for a reason.
Agree totally. I think this accident also stresses the importance of the checklist. I would assume the Cirrus has an electronic one, but even a flip chart checklist would have helped. All those missed approaches and giving a clearance while she was attempting another one, probably had a hand in her missing the flap setting. The controllers messed this one up big time.
You just said "the pilot messed this up. The controllers messed this one up big time" The controller isn't flying the plane. You got it right the first time. "Pilot missed the flap setting" was all you had to say.
Yeah, i got traffic behind you. Nah, just go around, because those people are much much more important. If i was the captain of this Cirrus, i would have put it down and would have said: Nope, not accepting the go around for someone who is BEHIND me.
This literally happened to me yestersay, the controller gave us so many different directions, had us almost break bravo air space. It was terrible all the way around l
That last controller seemed to be thinking out loud, telling her to be ready to duck in front of a commercial flight for runway 4, or maybe he might squeeze her in behind that flight, but maybe there wasn't room, so maybe he would reroute her to 35. That was more information than she could process and still fly the plane.
The pilot was in over head, it was clear. The controller probably could have vectored her away so she could get composed. The pilot also should have asked for help. She finally screwed up and spun it in.
Quite while ago MSP stopped allowing small GA aircraft. I was a passenger in small aircraft twice for approach and landing at MSP. In recent years I have flown commercial in and out of MSP. There is no way I would land at MSP. There are multiple satellite airports in the Twin Cities metro that are more agreeable to GA.
@@Flight_Follower Of course that doesn't include the right to operate at a military airport except in an emergency or via special permission obviously.
@@davidsine4390 MSP is class B airspace. The restrictions are somewhat lengthy, so I won’t list them here. And then there are fees. MSP operates at or near capacity 24/7. Getting tangled up with commercial jets is ill-advised. Flying around the Twin Cities area the rule is “Stay Clear”.
When she was on her last final for 35, is there any information as to why the controller turned her left when she was about halfway down 35, right before the crash? Nevermind. The crash was in June, 2016. The final report blamed ATC and the pilot; the pilot for lack of assertiveness for one thing. Also she apparently retracted the flaps below flaps-up stall speed and went down. Interesting read about a terrible tragedy.
I was in the left downwind for 34L at MCAS El Toro as a solo student pilot in a Cessna 152. The controller instructed me to exit the pattern and fly 1/2 mile to the NW and fly a 360⁰ holding pattern over a landmark that I confirmed. The controller said he had an inbound flight of 3 US Marine Corps F-4 Phantoms that he had to accommodate due to their speed and how they would do mid field breaks like they would when landing on a carrier. He then very quickly said "sorry about that, we'll bring you back into the pattern as soon as they clear the runway". He contacted me to bring back into the pattern and advised of "wake turbulence". I was very dismayed at the controllers in this video by how they were trying to squeeze her Cirrus between landing 737's. I understand there was volume in the airspace but this pilot's aircraft was NOT managed properly by the tower. What an absolute shame.
there were a lot of mistakes here. She and the controller both seemed overwhelmed. to make matters worse landing 35 would have been a hell of a crosswind for her.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong here but it seemed to me that the first diversion away from a basic comms understanding between tower and pilot was when the controller asked the pilot to make a LEFT turn heading 30 degrees, immediately after instructing the pilot to make a right turn to base following the passing commercial flight. I sort of expected the pilot to ask in the moment if that was a change to the approach plan she was just instructed to follow. She just went along with it though, so maybe I’m wrong?
You are told to go around when you are not in a position to land. She could have landed anywhere she wanted if she hac declared an emergency, so embarrassing....
The husband pilot flying it was not flying according to the high winds. Not turning according to the GRM rules. She was on the radio, not flying it from right seat. First, He was told to go around and head to right downwing leg to land to the west. To give a chance of both airplanes landing on diff runways. Safe to do on big runways. The idiot didnt correct for the wind and ended too close to the runway to land on that runway to the west, so the controller had to plan another approach for the dummy. And he did the dam same mistake 2 more times. and had to do 2 go arounds due he failed to position the airplane well by not correcting for the winds in turns. Student pilot dam errors all over. Bad Pilot failed to correct for the high winds and put the airplane where the controller said 3 times. Had to go around due that too. Then on second go around, the idiot cancelled ALL THE FLAPS at too low speed, which stalled the airplane. The arsehole killed them all. And ignorants here put all the blame on the controller for his 3 GRM student pilot errors and student pilot 2 go around errors too. That guy did about 5 student pilot errors i counted. Retired CFI. I taught high winds GRM and more.
The inexperienced Sirius pilot mixing with heavies on approach is the issue here. The Sirius pilot hasn’t got the skill set to be doing this sort of flying which is very demanding. The priority must go to the big jets. What a nightmare scenario for ATC to have slow light aircraft mixing in with arriving 737’s. ATC should also be very wary of giving ‘low and tight’ instructions to Sirius pilots as it puts those pilots at risk of a stall and spin.
If any of you are pilots with the mindset that a controller , merely by dialogue, has some magical power to cause loss of control of a perfectly good airplane in VFR conditions, then please surrender your license
Last year I was flying into Appleton during the Airventure, so lots of traffic. I was in C172, so the most popular single out there. Controller yells at me that I can't be doing 100 knots on final, sends me around twice. It's like he never worked C172 before. 80 on the final is my normal speed, flying 100 I am already going faster than normal, I am ahead of other traffic and have priority, so sending me around twice was uncool and unsafe.
She has the same right to land at that public airport as any other aircraft. Further, the controller lacks the authority to direct her to another airport. His job is to get all aircraft where they want to go safely. In this, he failed. Ultimately, her crash was due to her own lack of proficiency and complacency, but the controller made plenty of mistakes.
What a shame and utter disgrace! This controller just killed people and that’s why pilots need to say “Negative” loud and clear when getting jerked around like this! RIP
Very sad. She should have asked for accommodation and/or the controllers should have recognized she was having difficulty in the high traffic environment and created an easier approach scenario for her. Flying into a busy mixed use airport in a high performance airplane requires a level of skill and awareness that is not available in much flight training. And if you think that you have unlimited right of way as a pilot, you are simply not well trained enough and a danger to yourself, your passengers, and everyone around you. Until you declare an emergency, or at least ask for special treatment, you are expected to safely and seamlessly participate in the system or you will be given a number to call and a VERY uncomfortable interview with our friends at the FAA. Very few pilots recognize/admit that their ego exceeds their skill and training and won't ask for accommodation for their lack of ability.
I know this might be unpopular and this incident absolutely IS the fault of ATC…but dude, what a horrible trip to have on your conscience. I’d be willing to bet that he replays this over and over in his mind on a near daily basis. I know that I would probably be inconsolable if I felt that my actions had contributed to a tragic loss of life. The victims and their families always come first…but I can’t help it…I have human empathy. I feel for the guys in the tower, too. They’ll be haunted for life…
@@zachansen8293 You don’t see how this insane ground track and ridiculous chain of events was occasioned by ATC working these people all over the place?
@@manifestgtr But it was safe. I don't care how crazy it looks. Everything ATC did was safe with a competent pilot. Remember, she crashed on a go-around because she raised her flaps too early and stalled. She didn't stall from having to suddenly turn to avoid traffic or anything.
![[FINALE] 💸ที่แท้พ่อเป็นผู้ถือหุ้นบริษัทพันล้าน เขากลับใจตอนนี้ก็สายไปแล้ว🙇🏻♂️#ละครคุณธรรม #short](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yFwgjTFISUI/mqdefault.jpg)
Reminds me of many many years ago one of my last instruction flights my instructor had me fly to Cincinnati. It was a real mess with a lot of "maintain maximum air speed" and a couple of go arounds trying to fit us between the big boys. After we exited the runway and I stopped sweating my instructor asked "what did you learn from this" I said "not to fly into the busy places in a small plane' He said "exactly!!!".
If going to an intensely busy airport in a light aircraft is so important, find out when it's slow time is and show up then.
Know how to recognize your own fatigue level and leave or demand some form of priority.
Your Instructor is so right.
TMT Too Much Traffic
Good controllers know how to adjust the flow to accommodate general aviation. I am retired ATC and this was a totally avoidable disaster.
Absolutely no need to fly a small aircraft into a busy airport, why risk the safety of all involved to say I have landed at this airport…..
Retired controller. This pilot got jobbed so many times by these controllers who are apparently afraid to slow down the big jets. Controller skills very lacking. This pilot got jacked around unfairly and was actually apologizing to these idiots. Shame on them.
RIP
The pilot could have asked for help or vectors but instead got in over her head and lost control of the plane. The only thing the controller could have done was vectored her out of the airspace.
@@johnmajane3731 Thats the attitude here in the UK, basically GA not welcome, eventually there will be no GA to the delight of some and the dismay of others. The controllers did mess her around a lot - but at the same time, she didn't seem to be able to land with a cross wind and she did not fly the airplane which is #1 rule of aviation. A tight downwind turn without sufficient airspeed is a killer which can creep up on anyone when there is a high cockpit workload and THEY caused that high cockpit workload by lack of judgement, we can clearly see that the jets will beat her to the runway - why do they keep hoping they won't?
Yeah, but her inability to fly the aircraft properly in busy airspace was the main contributor. The cirrus isn’t an airplane for everybody and regardless of ATC, stalling an aircraft is the pilots responsibility.
@@michaelconvery8871 the Cirrus will spin and she lost control. Probably not enough time for it to register and pull the chute, sadly she and her passengers perished.
As I recall, the FAA's final report on this accident chiefly blamed the pilot and was much too kind to the controllers.
As a 30 year commercial pilot, I would have been confused by their handling and changes!
It could have all been avoided with either word - negative or unable. I know it's a busy airport but she was "cleared to land". The jet should have gone around.
So many mistakes and miscommunications or miscoordinations
Yes, it could have all been avoided with either word - negative or unable.
Unfortunately, the pilot asserted neither.
Instead, the pilot demonstrated a tragic inability to maintain an assigned airspeed (expected of a Cirrus) on the first approach, or to fly a simple traffic pattern on the subsequent second and third approaches.
I don't see how ATC has any blame here.
@@DanKeys-m8u here are three words that could’ve avoided that: Southwest go around. He had cleared her to land. That means he gave her the runway. It was hers. And numerous times he sent her around because of jet traffic.
agree but she was not ready to land on at least two trips over the runway
Sad, but what country. do we live in? You think a controller is going to have a huge jet go around with all the passengers on board paying money, for a small aircraft? I doubt that would happen. She's trying to land at an airport with HUGE jets flying 80-100mph faster than her... Yeah, in theory she was first, but in the real world, that makes no difference. This would be like me riding my Ebike on the freeway, expecting to keep up with traffic. She stalled - that's why she crashed. Not because she was vectored all around. Fly the aircraft first.
I remember this incident well. I live in the Houston area. As a student pilot in the 1980's, I flew in and out of Hobby many times. I was scared at first but got used to the busyness since I flew often, based across town though. I had go arounds and one time nearly flipped when on short final for 13L with an MD80 holding @90 degrees between 13L and 13R. The hot air was rising into my path. Another time, in a C152, on approach to 13L, told to keep speed up, Gulfstream behind. I didn't slow down soon enough, was asked if I could hold short of 22 due to traffic starting takeoff roll. I foolishly said yes. Skidded to a stop while an MD80 took off right in front of me! That airport has had MANY colisions and incursions over the years. Witnessed several very close calls. Sad what happened to the Cirrus crew.
I cannot understand or believe ATC made the Cirrus abort her landing and go around to give landing priority to following commercial traffic. ATC then followed up with a continuous stream of confusing and diversionary instructions. The FAA owns every bit of this event and is responsible for all who died. The only mistake the Cirrus pilotnmade was in failing to reject ATC's instruction to go around after being cleared to land. Unless other aircraft were still on the runway that real estate belonged to her until she taxied clear of it.
I agree so many confusing instructions runway 4 no runway 35 no go around downwind a no turn base girl must got confused af with airliners flying around also..
There were so many confusions
@@CanVeyn I whole heartedly agree with you. I was sitting in my recliner watching this video and I WAS CONFUSED.
What an absolute shame. Those two controllers must carry a heavy burden because of this pilot's loss of life.
If controller gives instructions that differ from previous instructions they must honor the previous acknowledged instruction. I would have ignored the go around and landed.
You a pilot ?
I believe the controller was the main cause, instructing her to go around and make unnecessary wrong turns. It's frustrating to watch, as she was complying with his instructions in controlled airspace.
I agree with you. That was unnecessary !
She failed to comply with the controller's instructions.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky
And controller did nothing to make her job easier.
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky U r a tool - She followed the controllers insane instructions to a T, until she got so confused by them, she forgot to fly her aircraft. She probably even went down on purpose just to end the insanity once and for all!
She’s well beyond the airplane from the start. Hard to put all the blame on the controller.
As a 35 year career pilot... I'm at a loss for words, there's just too many things wrong here.
Exactly sir. There are so many 😔
Two words fix all of this. "Negative, unable". These guys are accustomed to talking to equipment that comes out of the sky like a Baldwin piano if you need it to. That Cirrus won't do that very well.
@@Flight_Follower you're delusional if you think the pilot wasn't at fault here. She has no business being in a cockpit if she can't even follow basic instruction. She didn't even line up for 35 downwind correctly on the first request
@@smudent2010 pls consider the wind gusting 18 knots
I'm at a loss for how much safety was sacrifice by ATC for the prioritization of commercial aircraft.
I am an air traffic controller myself. What they have done here is pure ignorant and respectless control! Not impressed!
What is "ignorant and respectless control"? If this is the English you use as a controller, then you have shown us why we have a problem.
@@jimw1615 You are being a total jerk, dude.
@@claycassin8437 It is certainly nice to know there are two of us in this world. Thank you for your observation.
We expect better from a controller
What did the controller do that was ignorant? Where do you control aircraft? What did the pilot do that was incompetent, other than fail yo take the controller's suggestions. And crashing.
The fact that Dana Gray (the pilot) was so polite / patient on the radio and that SHE apologized to the controllers for the "confusion" just hurts. She wasn't the one who was causing the confusion. I hope they all three rest in peace!
Whoever you want to blame, if you are the pilot and the situation is getting too hectic, tell the controller you need what amounts to a time out. Take time to re-evaluate. Landing somewhere else may be the best option.
The abyssmal state of current ATC started with the ATSAP program in the mid oughts. It was the get-out-of-jail-free card instituted because the FAA screwed up the hiring pipeline and caved to DEI. No one was held responsible for operational errors afterwards and this is the end result.
The pilot’s decision to attempt a landing at a very busy Class B airport is perplexing. Why in the world didn’t they plan to land at one of the many GA airports in the Houston area? This was a cluster all around and an accident waiting to happen.
Wow unbeliavble how they confused this poor pilot, ATC made this approach incredible dangerous they should be held liable !!!
Don’t go into a busy class B. When they start maneuvering you between heavies, tell them you would like to leave the area and land somewhere else or wait until it slows down. If you get into wake turbulence, you’re done for. If you’re in a slick plane, you need to learn how to forward slip with full flaps and get that thing coming down. Get very familiar with your airplane before going into busy airspace.
You should know how to sideslip any light aircraft. Comes with the territory. Maybe it isn't practiced as much nowadays..
@@Ripper13F1V forward slip, yeah some people are afraid of it
Or maybe fly sailplanes for a year or two before moving up to power. Soar where there's a ride operation, get some acro training, get the CFIG, fly the tow plane, etc. Aside from becoming a skilled and competent pilot - and having a lot of fun - you can use many glider hours towards the private or commercial ticket. And with all the networking you can do at a glider port you can avoid the expense of a flight school as well. That's what my friends and I all did and it worked out very well for all of us.
@@Ripper13F1V It's got a parachute. It's safe to fly even if you lack basic flying skills.....
Cirrus pilot seems totally cooperative and unflappable, what a shame things went the way they did…
I agree!
She clearly got "flapped" as she crashed her plane. But it wasn't completely unreasonable, for sure.
NTSB final report is out. Pilot stalled and spun the plane onto the ground due to improper go-around procedure. ATC was a bit too much at times, but not the reason of her crash. She did not have a current BFR, basically no BFR since earning her PPL. Curious if this was a rental or how did Insurance allow this? Very sad, but it’s a reminder that you as the pilot are PIC and need to be safe out there. Unable, or vector for re-sequencing, or landing at a different airport are all very valid options when things are becoming too much. She should have never accepted 35 with those winds.
She seems very calm and confident. Controllers clueless.
Unfortunately as a lower time pilot, these are times when we need to be more assertive with controllers. They told her to go back to 4 when she was lined up with 4 they cleared her to land 35 then made it seem that she was in the wrong! This is just messed up!
To all pilots: If you’re having problems with controllers bouncing you all over the place just leave. There are at least 10-20 other airfields within 5-10 minutes of Hobby that could be used. Yeah, the pilot had the right and was even cleared to land but I wouldn’t take being bumped off landings. Yes the pilot was partially responsible for this crash but so are the controllers. They should have bumped one of the other planes and given the small airplane priority. The pilot was flying a sick relative to get treatment at MD Anderson cancer center. What I don’t understand is why the pilot didn’t use one of the other airfields. In the time it took doing go arounds she could have landed with zero pressure at so many other airfields.
I agree,
From all the changes in approach these Controllers gave, made it quite challenging for this young girl. This accident should never have happened, the pilot eventually got distracted, was trying for a tight pattern to finally land, I'm sure her left wing dipped past 30 degrees, and she got the sure death situation, every pilot wants to avoid. "Low and Slow". It's ok to do a tight pattern, however keep throttle above normal rpms for that pattern until your out of the turn, and on final. Lots of runway to slow down on.......N552AT signing off!!!
She blew the first approach.
@AlbertHess-xy7ky so.....nothing better than a clean go around!!! As a pilot you don't blow an approach, you determine the factors, and make a decision!
"I'd like to land right now please or I'll declare mayday due to loss of situational awareness..."
Not impressed with ATC.
pilot is a nitmit.
She was not aware she lost situational awareness.
@@TheBeingReal she retracted the flaps to soon while conducting a go-around..
@@TheBeingReal that’s true
@@TheBeingReal she lost something.
makes me sick every time i hear this one. that poor woman - God rest her soul. I wish she would have broken off and gone to one of 4 nearby airports. I only landed at Hobby once in our Merlin and it was too busy.
I flew through Hobby's radar service area back in the 90's and we were treated like second class citizens as a small light aircraft in a busy airspace. After contacting air traffic multiple times, simply looking to be acknowledged in a effort to avoid collisions with other aircraft, we were finally responded to and rudely told that they were busy and didn't have time for us. Just maintain altitude and heading and proceed with caution. Shortly thereafter, a NASA T-38 flew across our windshield close enough to leave pucker marks in the seat. I'm sure they thought it was funny!
My understanding is that she retracted her flaps while turning during a go around and stalled.
first come first serve... what is wrong with this controller?
UA777Capt.... started flying in 1974.... I don't recall anything worse than this.
Come on, doing a go around or maneuvering her off of final makes complete sense with a 737 closing behind her. Unfortunately she was a bit high on the 2nd attempt, and I guess on the 3rd attempt.
@@jasonkimball7617 No, they should have sent the first 737 around. She has just as much priority as any jet. She was there first and was lower. Putting her on to a runway with that strong of a quartering tailwind was an even bigger problem. Her mistake was accepting runway 35 to begin with. She needed to instist on a downwind back around for 4.
@@jasonkimball7617 do you know the rules? I started flying in 1974... during my 6 years in the Navy, 3 college degrees, 10 FAA licenses, 8 type ratings, 15 different models, a now 50 year pilot having retired from United Airlines after 30 years as a captain. Retired on B-777-200 ER... what do you think ATC does? THEY SEPARATE TRAFFIC... THEIR ONLY JOB.... THEY FAILED.
@@johnaclark1 she was lower but her airplane was much more maneuverable. And she did NOT have a strong tailwind on 35, the tailwind component was 3 knots. There was nothing wrong with 35, crosswind was 18 knots. Vs 14 knot crosswind on runway 4. Why do you think runway 4 would have been so different?
@@SKIPWOOD-UA777CAPT The rules? I am sorry, I dont know of any rule prohibiting ATC from directing more maneuverable traffic off final when a much faster and heavier jet is right behind them. They did successfully keep separation in my opinion.
So many things went wrong here. But you must establish a positive rate of climb on a go around before retracting your flaps to 0 Degrees. Very sad. 😢
Obviously this is highly edited, but I don't put this all on the controller. The pilot is the captain of the aircraft. In my opinion, she was way too passive, and clearly had more airplane than she could handle. As soon as she heard that there would be a 18 knot crosswind on 35, she should have told ATC that she needed 4. Or the other SE runway there. Way to submissive to ATC, for lack of a better word. She has as much right to runway 4 as any airliner. They can go around just as easy as she can.
While the controller was monologing the pilot became overloaded and retracted the flaps too early for the last attempt at a go around and stalled. Many factors at play in this one.
It is All on the controller! She had a right to that runway on the 1st approach when she was sent around to accommodate the airliner.
Yeah the bellends here saying it her fault need a reality check... always thought guy on finals had right of way ... fook the 737 ....
@@WWPlaysHoldem Wrong, youre a moron and I hope youre not a pilot
@@nsvo9038 Pilot error
Sad, but she was still in control of the plane. I wonder What was her Alternate flight Plan was?
As a courtesy for flow in light aircraft at busy airline terminals I would keep my speed up until short final. The runways plenty long enough to manage speed.
Yes. Of course.. Most logical 😂
🎉😂Yes
I'm trying to understand why they gave her runway 35 with a direct crosswind. She could have followed the commercial jets to runway 4. This is the second video I've watched where Hobby controllers gave two female Cirrus pilots the run around which ended BADLY!
Flown in to that airport many times in a Cherokee 140 or Cessna 172. There is a lot of much faster traffic to deal with. A slow plane causes the controllers grief. I’m fortunate my instructor Garion S. Taught me how to “Slip”!
All planes have the right to fly, just because you're rich or making money doesn't give you priority.
Low experience pilot. High Performance plane. Get there itis. Very busy class B airport which she was unfamiliar with. Not familiar with the Houston area, plenty of feeder airports available for GA (she was from Oklahoma). Controller trying to sequence during a period of heavy, fast arrivals. Windy. The full tape is available. The controller did back off on sternness and made an effort to "instruct" her rather than direct her. While maneuvering she lost control at low altitude during a banking turn. Cross wind turned to tailwind. Air speed dropped, stall speed increased. She stalled the plane and spun into parking lot. She lost the basics of flying, controlling the plane. Unfortunately the main issue is her attempting a trip above her capability/experience level. Licensed pilot since 1979.
Thank you for your understanding. Its irritating me how people are condeming the controller with murder
@@ohiyesa2328 More like a wrongful death.
I couldn't tell you what the proper procedure is, or if there is a regulation or not, I am not a lawyer, I'm not legally judging either side.
I'm just saying it wouldn't be surprising if this ended up in a wrongful death lawsuit.
I'm pretty sure saying "pilot in command" isn't the whole of the law.
Responsible doesn't necessarily mean felony or even total responsibility.
I would say ATC had a plurality of responsibility for this accident.
But maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. I'm not a jury.
My solution is just to replace everyone with computers though.
@@jtjames79 You are 100% wrong. ATC assumes no responsibility, it is ALL on the pilot. This pilot had no business flying into this airport. 3rd generation pilot here as well. If you knew the FAR you would know.
@@benjigault9043 And that's exactly why they should be replaced by computers.
If ATC responsibility is superfluous, then ATC's job is superfluous.
@@jtjames79 clearly you are not a pilot. There is no way ATC could just be replaced by computers. Laughable at best.
This why you use those (usually abundant) municipal, community and executive air parks located around most US metropolitan areas. Just too much going on at HOU or MIA or La Guardia for your average GA pilot.
Yeah
It's still up to the pilot to fly the plane in a competent manner, no matter how many go-arounds it takes. RIP
@@ZERO-911Any credibility you have was diminished by the gratuitous and tedious reference to DEI.
@@jednick Amen to that! I'm surprised he didn't add, let's go Brandon!
@@ZERO-911 You are an absolute Moron (upper case for a reason)
@@ZERO-911what on earth does this have to do with DEI? Of course you’re an old hag, spitting out literal misinformation without any facts to back them up.
so well said. The controller did all he can do to help a clown pilot.
Seems like approach was handling the sequence to Runway 4 and that was the best runway for the wind. The controller could have given her to approach for sequence, even though they don't like it much. I used to circle small slower aircraft near the base and slip them in when I could. In the end, she was pilot in command going into busy airspace. The controller was not at fault.
Would it been a good idea to depart pattern when it got hectic ? Regardless who was right or wrong.
To regain control,relax,& try again
Seems to me that she stalled, trying to fly a tight pattern after missed at low airspeed, pitch high and extreme bank angles. Sad she got tossed around that much. Class B's aren't fun in a small GA aircraft.
Pilot had to juggle a terrible runway assignment, gusting quartering tailwind, turbulence, wake turbulence hazards, multiple go-arounds, being stuck low to the ground in high heat, and the indecisiveness of the controller. That is a lot. Most people would be shaking even with only half of that thrown at them.
Very well said. Stressful situation for a Pilot
'I dont know which way youre going now' - WHAT?!?!
presumably the radar takes time to update on a slow plane in a turn. Better to not give incorrect instructions.
It seems like ATC should have been more in control of the situation and let her land the first time. The jet overtaking her should have been told to go around. She had clearance to land. ATC turned her too soon on the next go around and she was too high to land.
The jet could go around. The controller could adjust her easily in the first try too
The worst part is this plane was equipped with an emergency parachute that in the midst of all the chaos, never got deployed.
She was clearly task saturated. Can't think clearly so logical decisions are not made when someone is overwhelmed like simply diverting to a different airport or using the parachute after stalling.
Yes, she was task saturated. As she lost control, ATC is telling her to straighten it up. Sad situation.
is not the first time theres one video from other cirrus piloted by a woman either,if she was in a turn whit not enough speed thats what hapend no mater which plane your fliyng you go down, so she was in aproach not enough altitude to deploy rhe parachute,a good instructor always told you fly the plane first, the tower is not in comand and sometimes if they don have radar they dont know where your plane is as in this case,aniway what a stupid lost, sorry for her family RIP
@@SteveGad You pull it if you know you’ve got it… but yeah she was clearly task saturated. The video leaves out the main issue was retracting flaps at insufficient airspeed. That plane dropped into that parking lot like a stone. Ideal situation for the parachute when there’s no chance of recovery but sadly again, task saturation is a mf.
@@TheDude818 not at less than 500 ft no time to use it ,or for it to deploy
She should have said something when they told her to go around after being cleared to land. Then when they told her to keep it tight. She was overloaded. Should have said I want to land the first time. She was not watching her speed and was to busy with ATC and crazy instructions.
If a busy airport does not have a runway layout that allows simultaneous operation of fast and slow aircraft, they should only allow one or the other. (FAR 2024.6.16)
Turn left, turn right. uumm, its going to be tight, careful of turbulance, can you do this, i need you to um, cleared to land runway 4, turn right around about 040 heading, if you can um, cleared to land runway 35, i'll fit you in, they are catching you up, speed up, you might be a bit high, cleared to land runway 4, turn right cleared to land runway 35, straighten up...........
Obviously a forensic examination will be needed to determine what was the main cause of this accident.
Terrible ATC- standards across the country have become appalling
Terrible pilot standards across the country. This pilot should never have gone into class B airspace.
Both failed but you would expect all ATC to be proficient and not necessarily the case with all pilots. He could have done much better.
What are you talking about? She couldn't even comprehend basic instructions. She couldn't line herself up for a runway. This is on her. Stop simping
Yes, the controller was very messy. However, she was flying the plane. Large and busy airports have flow of jets roughly flying at the same speed. Throw a slow single engine piston in the mix and it creates chaos.
Totally agree but different type aircraft is what makes the job fun in my opinion. Anyone can say cleared to land, a good controller can work it out
Sounds like she had her hands full flying the Cirrus, let alone handling ATC. Very tragic.
This was the second plane crash that I looked at when I first got into researching plane crashes. I felt bad for her she wasn't assertive enough and they should have let her land the one time she was actually lined up that one time and sent the commercial plane around because it can to a go around much faster then her. I read the docket with the plane monitoring data and watched the investigation video on Airsafety Institute. Each time she was forced to go around she kept raising the flaps to get down below the minimum speed allowed. I belive she was going straight the majority of the time or should probably would have crashed early on because she was on the edge of flaps up stall speed. When they made her do that last go around she made the turn without retracting flaps resulting in a stall spin into a car in the parking lot below. Watching it spin and impact was crazy, the impact was so hard it set off the rocket for the CAPS parachute system. She was a fairly low time pilot but her instructor said she was a good pilot but it was so busy and she was trying to get there to see a family member receiving cancer treatment so I'm sure she had a lot on her plate. The CAPS parachute is there because SR series has nasty stall characteristics which result in a violent spin. Based on looking at her speeds if she was at or above 500 feet when it dropped the wing if she pulled the shoot they would have more then likely still been alive because I've seen a mid-air with a SR and he pulled the parachute and both occupants survived it was spilt in half. The other metroliner plane also landed with half the rear portion missing. I wish she would have pulled the parachute yes it sucks to damage the plane but you're life is more valuable let the insurance have it and go buy another one.
As tower controller I can say that finding a gap for much slower aircraft to land between much faster commercial traffic can be difficult. She should orbit before base turn I wait for sufficient gap.
This woman was professional and calm. What happened to her is sickening and I’m sorry but those controllers ought to be seriously reprimanded or fired. Any pilot could have made the same mistake she did and stall spun that plane given the chaotic instructions from ATC. Seriously makes me sick listening to this.
My condolences to the family. Class B or not, lets just be grateful that many more souls weren't lost.
The controller didn’t help but ultimately the pilot is responsible for flying the plane. She could have been more assertive and requested Runway 4 with those winds even if she had to wait for a slot. She could have diverted to a less busy airport.
As a retired tower and TRACON controller, I was horrified at what this controller did,
I remember listening to the disturbing tape following this crash but with no graphics/map to see. Confusing instructions for a pilot who was polite and humble and flying a high-performance airplane in Class B. As I recall, they were flying from Oklahoma to see a critically ill hospitalized relative. Maybe Hobby was closer to the hospital? Seems like the tragegy could have been avoided with a pre-flight decision to fly into a GA airport.
Controllers tend to assume that all pilots are competent and in full control of their aircraft. Student pilots and low-time pilots should inform controllers that they're students or let them know when they're overloaded or highly stressed. Obviously, there's a natural disinclination to do so on the part of pilots, but instructors should encourage them to do so, even declaring an emergency if necessary. Had this lady done so, the controller would probably have assisted her better. Instead, 3 people are dead and he has to live with this accident.
The cirrus and hobby were a handful for this young lady. I wish she would have picked sugarland instead. RIP
That was very sad.
Yeah🥲🥲
by the pilot, yes
How is this “ the controllers fault “ ??!
He said left when she first went left
I learned about this tragedy a few years ago, so every time I fly to a busy air space on a Cessna, I don't configure the plane for landing until I'm giving a clear direction to land.
What "clear instruction to land" are you talking about beyond clearance? They aren't holding your hand the whole way in.
Commercial get priority ATC didn't cause her to fly into your ground
Aviate, communicate, and something else
This is sickening.
Not enough time to land before another heavy is resulting in yet another go-around. The stress to a GA pilot each go-around increases.
How can a GA airplane continually be treated like a ‘left over’?
Do controllers have another to take over? Someone to manage when things aren’t working.. and to give better spacing?
Terribly misleading video title.
It is the case that the controller made a judgement call that didn't work out on spacing and instructed the Cirrus to go-around, but ATC's job is to "facilitate the safe and efficient flow of air traffic" and it's no less safe and much more efficient for a Cirrus to go-around than it is for a 737 to go-around. It has nothing to do with "rights". As others have pointed out, it's the pilot's responsibility to fly the plane. Pilots need to own these kinds of tragic mistakes and not offload their responsibility to someone who's not in the cockpit.
If you can't see how this pilot bears the overwhelming burden of fault for this outcome, then please avoid any operations within a cockpit yourself, for everyone's sake. There is no expectation on any pilot or any controller's part that conducting a go-around is anything other than a routine, and in many cases preferable, flight maneuver.
There is no pilot or investigator that will contribute a "go-around" as the principle cause of an accident in a similar scenario.
This is clearly an inability to handle the increased workload related to high density traffic airspaces and no doubt there were external pressure factors aggravating the pilot's fitness to fly.
They call the SR20 series a technically advanced aircraft for a reason.
WTF is ATC playing at!!! If i had been that pilot i definitely would be questioning his decisions. Absolutely shocking.
PILOT IN COMMAND, she never was...., beginning with flying into an airport she obviously was no qualified to be in.
Agree totally. I think this accident also stresses the importance of the checklist. I would assume the Cirrus has an electronic one, but even a flip chart checklist would have helped. All those missed approaches and giving a clearance while she was attempting another one, probably had a hand in her missing the flap setting. The controllers messed this one up big time.
You just said "the pilot messed this up. The controllers messed this one up big time"
The controller isn't flying the plane. You got it right the first time. "Pilot missed the flap setting" was all you had to say.
Yeah, i got traffic behind you.
Nah, just go around, because those people are much much more important.
If i was the captain of this Cirrus, i would have put it down and would have said: Nope, not accepting the go around for someone who is BEHIND me.
This literally happened to me yestersay, the controller gave us so many different directions, had us almost break bravo air space. It was terrible all the way around l
That last controller seemed to be thinking out loud, telling her to be ready to duck in front of a commercial flight for runway 4, or maybe he might squeeze her in behind that flight, but maybe there wasn't room, so maybe he would reroute her to 35. That was more information than she could process and still fly the plane.
The pilot was in over head, it was clear. The controller probably could have vectored her away so she could get composed. The pilot also should have asked for help. She finally screwed up and spun it in.
Quite while ago MSP stopped allowing small GA aircraft. I was a passenger in small aircraft twice for approach and landing at MSP. In recent years I have flown commercial in and out of MSP. There is no way I would land at MSP. There are multiple satellite airports in the Twin Cities metro that are more agreeable to GA.
Thanks for sharing the information.
I could be wrong but it's my understanding that any airport receiving federal funding cannot prohibit general aviation aircraft from operating there.
@@davidsine4390 I am not aware of the information
@@Flight_Follower Of course that doesn't include the right to operate at a military airport except in an emergency or via special permission obviously.
@@davidsine4390 MSP is class B airspace. The restrictions are somewhat lengthy, so I won’t list them here. And then there are fees. MSP operates at or near capacity 24/7. Getting tangled up with commercial jets is ill-advised. Flying around the Twin Cities area the rule is “Stay Clear”.
So how many times did she get a landing clearance? What exactly does "cleared to land" mean now DEI FAA?
What a stupid fucking comment!!!
When she was on her last final for 35, is there any information as to why the controller turned her left when she was about halfway down 35, right before the crash?
Nevermind. The crash was in June, 2016. The final report blamed ATC and the pilot; the pilot for lack of assertiveness for one thing. Also she apparently retracted the flaps below flaps-up stall speed and went down. Interesting read about a terrible tragedy.
I was in the left downwind for 34L at MCAS El Toro as a solo student pilot in a Cessna 152. The controller instructed me to exit the pattern and fly 1/2 mile to the NW and fly a 360⁰ holding pattern over a landmark that I confirmed.
The controller said he had an inbound flight of 3 US Marine Corps F-4 Phantoms that he had to accommodate due to their speed and how they would do mid field breaks like they would when landing on a carrier.
He then very quickly said "sorry about that, we'll bring you back into the pattern as soon as they clear the runway".
He contacted me to bring back into the pattern and advised of "wake turbulence".
I was very dismayed at the controllers in this video by how they were trying to squeeze her Cirrus between landing 737's. I understand there was volume in the airspace but this pilot's aircraft was NOT managed properly by the tower. What an absolute shame.
there were a lot of mistakes here. She and the controller both seemed overwhelmed. to make matters worse landing 35 would have been a hell of a crosswind for her.
After dealing with controllers and big iron I tend to stay away from airports with commercial traffic unless not busy
That is properly harrowing. I’ve never seen that before.
Thats totally F'd up...That poor woman, husband also? So senseless.
Somebody correct me if I’m wrong here but it seemed to me that the first diversion away from a basic comms understanding between tower and pilot was when the controller asked the pilot to make a LEFT turn heading 30 degrees, immediately after instructing the pilot to make a right turn to base following the passing commercial flight. I sort of expected the pilot to ask in the moment if that was a change to the approach plan she was just instructed to follow. She just went along with it though, so maybe I’m wrong?
Wow this was painful
I’m speechless here!!!!
It's so pathetic to hear, I know
How many times are you expected to go around until you have had enough and declare an emergency to land?
You are told to go around when you are not in a position to land. She could have landed anywhere she wanted if she hac declared an emergency, so embarrassing....
The husband pilot flying it was not flying according to the high winds. Not turning according to the GRM rules. She was on the radio, not flying it from right seat. First, He was told to go around and head to right downwing leg to land to the west. To give a chance of both airplanes landing on diff runways. Safe to do on big runways. The idiot didnt correct for the wind and ended too close to the runway to land on that runway to the west, so the controller had to plan another approach for the dummy. And he did the dam same mistake 2 more times. and had to do 2 go arounds due he failed to position the airplane well by not correcting for the winds in turns. Student pilot dam errors all over.
Bad Pilot failed to correct for the high winds and put the airplane where the controller said 3 times. Had to go around due that too.
Then on second go around, the idiot cancelled ALL THE FLAPS at too low speed, which stalled the airplane. The arsehole killed them all. And ignorants here put all the blame on the controller for his 3 GRM student pilot errors and student pilot 2 go around errors too. That guy did about 5 student pilot errors i counted. Retired CFI. I taught high winds GRM and more.
The inexperienced Sirius pilot mixing with heavies on approach is the issue here. The Sirius pilot hasn’t got the skill set to be doing this sort of flying which is very demanding. The priority must go to the big jets. What a nightmare scenario for ATC to have slow light aircraft mixing in with arriving 737’s. ATC should also be very wary of giving ‘low and tight’ instructions to Sirius pilots as it puts those pilots at risk of a stall and spin.
This is unbelievable! This was a typical SNAFU as can only be preformed by the FAA.
If any of you are pilots with the mindset that a controller , merely by dialogue, has some magical power to cause loss of control of a perfectly good airplane in VFR conditions, then please surrender your license
Last year I was flying into Appleton during the Airventure, so lots of traffic. I was in C172, so the most popular single out there. Controller yells at me that I can't be doing 100 knots on final, sends me around twice. It's like he never worked C172 before. 80 on the final is my normal speed, flying 100 I am already going faster than normal, I am ahead of other traffic and have priority, so sending me around twice was uncool and unsafe.
They made the cirrus go around while on short final? for traffic behind them!!? Cirrus has the right of way! This is absolutely horrible.
The Cirrus had no right of way. It was in controlled airspace. You follow the controller's directions or you leave the area.
She should have been directed to another field, as Hobby is way too occupied dealing with big birds, with the smaller birds being a lesser priority.
Ahh no
She has the same right to land at that public airport as any other aircraft. Further, the controller lacks the authority to direct her to another airport. His job is to get all aircraft where they want to go safely. In this, he failed.
Ultimately, her crash was due to her own lack of proficiency and complacency, but the controller made plenty of mistakes.
@@skydvrboy
👍
How many controllers were talking to her telling her to do different things. Pretty sure I heard 2-3 different controllers
What a shame and utter disgrace! This controller just killed people and that’s why pilots need to say “Negative” loud and clear when getting jerked around like this! RIP
You're hysterical. That controller didn't kill anyone.
Unable to face such a sad situation in France as small bees are not allowed to land on big airports.
Those controllers must have been part of the DEI hiring program. They are terrible!
It sounded like there were more than one controller talking to her at the same time giving different and conflicting directions.
Very sad. She should have asked for accommodation and/or the controllers should have recognized she was having difficulty in the high traffic environment and created an easier approach scenario for her. Flying into a busy mixed use airport in a high performance airplane requires a level of skill and awareness that is not available in much flight training. And if you think that you have unlimited right of way as a pilot, you are simply not well trained enough and a danger to yourself, your passengers, and everyone around you. Until you declare an emergency, or at least ask for special treatment, you are expected to safely and seamlessly participate in the system or you will be given a number to call and a VERY uncomfortable interview with our friends at the FAA. Very few pilots recognize/admit that their ego exceeds their skill and training and won't ask for accommodation for their lack of ability.
3:18 that's sad and she's the one that felt she needed to apologize.
The tower seems to be on drugs. Too many cooks. Pick a runway, Gentlemen.
I know this might be unpopular and this incident absolutely IS the fault of ATC…but dude, what a horrible trip to have on your conscience. I’d be willing to bet that he replays this over and over in his mind on a near daily basis. I know that I would probably be inconsolable if I felt that my actions had contributed to a tragic loss of life. The victims and their families always come first…but I can’t help it…I have human empathy. I feel for the guys in the tower, too. They’ll be haunted for life…
lol how do you know?
She is the pilot in command not atc
How is setting your flaps wrong on a go around ATCs fault?
@@zachansen8293
You don’t see how this insane ground track and ridiculous chain of events was occasioned by ATC working these people all over the place?
@@manifestgtr But it was safe. I don't care how crazy it looks. Everything ATC did was safe with a competent pilot. Remember, she crashed on a go-around because she raised her flaps too early and stalled. She didn't stall from having to suddenly turn to avoid traffic or anything.