Game Designer Explains: Why Sonic Mania Succeeded, where Superstars Failed
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Sonic Mania and Sonic Superstars are often compared to one another because they were made as a retro throwback to Sonic's origins as a really good speed-based platformer. But why then is Sonic Mania held up in such high regard, and Sonic Superstars seen as a simply failed imitator. Find out in this video as I discuss the 2 games, and explain their subtle differences from the lens of a game design, showing why one is seen as superior to the other.
TIMESTAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
1:30 - Music
6:37 - Level Design
12:54 - Bosses
15:46 - Conclusion
►SOCIAL MEDIA Instagram: plexitier_a... Tiktok: / plexitier_on_yt Twitter: / plexi_tier
Sonic Mania footage: • SONIC MANIA Full Gamep... - เกม
![Sonic Mania Plus LOST BITS | MORE Unused Content and Debug Mode Secrets [TetraBitGaming]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F30_44zolHY/mqdefault.jpg)
People who think Mania is worse because it has less original zones have no idea how quality works 😂
Quality over originality.
I don't think it's a strength or weakness
Or maybe they have a different opinion lol
It’s literally the same as the people who say that 4 is better than mania
They always go on about quantity and never quality
@@alphetti4348 4 has 8 levels
The best way to describe Superstars is that it feels like a lost 3DS game. Had it released on the handheld in like 2016, I don’t think it would be getting dogged on as much, even when it has a $60 price tag and is an overall below average experience.
And it wasn’t like they needed Headcannon or Evening Star to develop it. Mania was the perfect blueprint to make a brilliant successor that was more than just Mania with new levels and 4-player co-op. It feels like they knew that people were gonna buy it because of Mania’s success and cranked it out to try and rival Mario Wonder.
Which is funny, because I hear people keep comparing it to Mario Wonder, even though that game wasn't rushed in the slightest.
@@Plexi.TAt least Mario Wonder knew what it wanted to be from start to finish didn’t come off as just “New Super Mario Bros but with a new coat of paint and level shifting gimmick”
The only real praise/defense I’ve seen people make for Superstars is its ambition rather than its execution of those ambitions. Which if that’s all people wanted out of Superstars, a Mania like experience with original levels, then I’m glad they’re expectations were met. However, the comparison between Mania’s execution of its concepts compared to Superstars’ is night and day and I can go back to Mania first before Superstars. Sorry this reply was long btw.
@Butwhythough881 It's OK, I'm completely fine with long responses. I also want to stress that I don't think Superstars is a bad video game, it's just WAY too expensive, and doesn't live up to my (and many other peoples) expectations of what a "3-D" classic Sonic game should look and feel like.
@@Plexi.T I understand that. I don’t think Superstars is terrible either. It falls into the same category as Sonic 4 Episode 2. It’s fine enough for what it does do, but I wouldn’t put it any higher than being a substandard experience for me. If it had the same price tag as Mania and better execution of its ambitions, mainly the new levels and bosses, i’d consider it to be a better experience for me.
Oh for sure Superstars feels like it was meant to be on 3DS, the screen feels so zoomed in and you barely react to enemies while you’re speeding through levels. And this is coming from someone who likes the Advance and Rush games. Wish those games could remade with a 16:9 aspect ratio.
It also doesn't help that Superstar came out 3 days before Super Mario Bros. Wonder. That game also has issues with bosses for different reason and yet, the game as an whole is still an heck of alot better than Superstar. Goes to show that once again Sonic is trying to outweigh Mario for doing different things to beat it's rival and he still fails.
Yeah, Sonic is at his best when he tries to be different and stand out from the crowd. I still consider the story book games some of Sonic's best characterization.
Yeah not really, like I think most of y'all forget that he's still a popular IP, the game sold 2 million units it took mania 1 year to reach 1 mil
@@hype5456 Sonic got 2 movies between Mania and Superstars, so obviously Superstars is gonna sell more.
I really don’t enjoy wonder.
@@sandman8920 Wonder top 3 2D mario game
the catapillar boss aside, i'd argue that in Mania, even all of the bosses that make you wait to hit the boss easily makes up for it by still making playing the game entertaining during that window of time.
Hydrocity act 1 was fun
So was chemical act 2
Studiopolis act 1 is a prime example of this fr
@@shellder_gaming Hydrocity act 1 and 2 stage song is 🔥🔥🔥
You also have more control over the pace of boss combat. If you are passive then your fights take longer. Most of SuperStars bosses are effective auto scrollers.
I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Sonic Mania, but I can already see which one will age better.
Sonic Mania is a game that can be enjoyed from beginning to end, while Sonic Superstars can hardly be enjoyed for more than two stages without interruptions.
Yeah, in mania, the stage gimmicks and bosses feel so natural, while super stars feels really forced and intrusive.
The game is just very inconsistent with itself overall
@@Plexi.Tnah, i disagree: superstars levels can flow just as much as other 2d sonic games. Pinball carnivall and frozen base are good examples
@@lupinthenerd439 i disagree. Those interruptions OP is talking about are those god-damned boss fights! I hate them so much!
@@esmooth919 I thought they meant the levels themselves.
The Shocking Thing is that Mania sold around one million copies while superstars sold around 4.3 million copies
That's f*king insane. I'm sad that that's the case lol.
@@Plexi.T I guess that's the power of advertising. I imagine Mania was mostly advertised through the Sonic Twitter account which is somewhat niche, whereas Superstars was advertised more broadly because Mania was successful so I doubt numbers tell the whole story. I wouldn't lose hope though, Paper Mario Sticker Star was a huge downgrade from previous paper mario games, and still sold a ton because fans didn't realize it was a downgrade until after they bought it. But the sequel, Paper Mario Color Splash, sold abysmally because even on the Wii U which was mostly owned by diehard Nintendo fans, they weren't going to fall for the same thing twice. I think way too many people bought Superstars because everyone hyped up Mania, and then some people got frustrated they wasted $60 and are trying to cope hard lol
@@Ganonmustdie2 you're right. Sonic Mania should have collabed with IHOP if it wanted more sales 💀
@@Plexi.T Sonic Superstars collabed with IHOP?!
😶. Look up Bickurbox12, he made a video about it.
Personally, Maina has more replay value than Superstars, people like to harp on Mania for not having more original zones (which was because Sega wanted them, not the devs) but those zones are much much better quality-wise than Superstars. That's not to say Superstars itself is a terrible game.
Sonic Superstar brings that sonic 4 vibe to the function nobody asked for.
I said ina different comment section that Sonic Superstars feels like an upscaled/remaster Wii game and they jumped me. I still stand by my word 💯
I don’t like Superstars because of it’s bosses they take WAY to long to beat and the final bosses of each story are unreasonably difficult having 2-3 phases all taking at least 7 hits to beat before the next phase and it takes so long to hit between attacks they also have instant kill attacks they drag on too long.
Yeah, I can tell that the game devs were thinking longer makes harder, when designing the bosses for this game.
The thing about Fang's theme is that, while it doesn't sound "bad" to me, what it _does_ sound like is... confused. Were I to hear it without that context, I would not be able to tell what it's supposed to be for, and the _last_ thing I'd guess is "bounty hunter boss music". Considering my view of what makes music significant in the first place? That's an even _worse_ failure than sounding bad.
what confuses me as a game composer is the length of some of the tracks.
the game scenario has bosses that are actually quite long while the game music for those boss encounters is designed to sound very simple, short and repetitive.. like, i say this with no exaggeration, you can get into a 10 minute fight with fang and his song is a 30 second loop.
i just think that's not.. good. his theme from triple trouble (the *8-BIT* game he originated from) is longer than his theme in superstars. like what the heck?
Now try to compare it to his themes in Triple Trouble 16-Bit and SRB2.
…Yeah, *not even close.*
This video is called "Game Designer Explains" so I was expecting you to talk more about game design.
Most of it is about aesthetic and concepts. The music commentary is also lacking knowledge about the subject (i.e. what soundchips are)
For me, the title really lead me to except something else. If it had been "my thoughts on superstars" I think I would have more prepared for this kind of video.
Your video is perfectly fine! Just know that a title like that can lead to a certain expectation different from the actual content.
Have good day and keep at it! 🙂
Christian Whitehead seemed to want to make more original stages for Mania, but Sega mandated his team bring back classic stages, and that he include the Phantom Ruby to tie into Sonic Forces. So he did his best to put a new spindash on each of those stages and wrote a better story than Forces involving the Phantom Ruby and the origin of the Hard-Boiled Heavies.
Side note: The Hard-Boiled Heavies are some of the most well-thought out and cool designed baddies since Mephiles, Chaos, Metal Sonic and even Shadow.
Infinite, The Generic Deadly Six, and The Amorphous Purple Asteroid from Frontiers got nothing on The Heavy King.
Whitehead did an interesting interview on the Heavies and how their names and personas were manifested by the Phantom Ruby. The animal in Heavy King’s Egg Robo saw itself as a king, hence the name, personality and appearance. Brilliant!
It ain’t that deep.
@@EWOODJ ... but it's not shallow? At least you acknowledge that. Implying that it's not "that deep" implies that it's deep but not in a way where it's not too deep.
Sonic mania was the first sonic game i played since sonic mega collection so i was excited when i saw another classic game coming but now im just back to mania
sonic superstar has that sonic 4 kinda vibe
Nah it is not THAT bad
@@jaydenc367 idk it just reminds me of it
@@brownberryking Ok then
The best thing I can say about Superstars is that it's an improved version of Sonic 4. Which ain't sayin much.
Definitely not that bad . At least super stars has classic physics
Superstars definetly lacks a proper direction, or rather what it wants to be exactly, wich definetly hurt the game in the long run
I haven't Mania played that much but I agree it's I played Superstars and notice it's glaring issues
1. It's Bosses: Mania handled them really them really well quick , easy and simple to understand while superstars it's bosses take really long , have too many patterns , long invinciblity frames especially the ones later on in the game to point where they take long than actual stage itself Classic sonic bosses are supposed to be simple , quick , and easy to understand not have long repetitive patterns Superstars bosses don't fit for a Classic Sonic game
The Music: Mania had an amazing soundtrack some of them are Sonic CD JP Quality especially in the Act 2s such Metallic Madness Act 2 Studiopolis Act 1&2 , Green Hill , Press Garden I could go on and on but you get the idea while Superstars has an inconsistent soundtrack Some of them are really good such as Lagoon City Act 1 , 2 and Act Amy Lagoon City Act 2 is literally a Modern day Sonic CD Stage Some of sound like Baby Toys or Sonic 4 music such as Fang Boss Fight in Sonic and Some speak for themselves such as Press Factory Act 1 overall the Soundtrack is a mixed bag
Gameplay: Mania took everything that made The Classic Sonic games so special and reinvent them in a Modern way it's gimmicks felt natural and part of level itself it's physics are one to one with the other classics but in a smooth 60fps
It's special and bonus stages are really fun every character feels fun to play as while superstars some parts of what made the classics special but also took some unfun elements as well it's gimmicks don't feel natural and part of the level itself but feels forced it's special and bonus stages are alright it's special stages are boring in my opinion not as fun as mania' s but still good smooth physics but not as smooth as mania every character feels fun to play but sonic's drop dashing feels nerfed and knuckles gliding and exploration felt fun in mania since you have to explore for the giant rings and elemental shields while in superstars exploration feels pointless you don't get any elemental shields rather than a basic shield and a magnet shield and it's giant rings you collect one per level in mania you can collect five emeralds in one level while in superstars you collect one per level
Overall Presention: I and many people prefer mania over superstars but that doesn't mean it's bad but superstars is not worth the full price Mania is worth 60$ if you ask me Mania is smooth from being to end while superstars had some rocks on it's way
Side Note 1 : My only grip with Mania is that it reuses old zones from previous Sonic games
Side Note 2 : That comment took very long to type
What do you think of my opinion any points of mine that were over exaggerated or all were facts
@@carolineneh2791I’m pretty sure I agree with basically everything you said. The weirdest part of superstar’s music is that tee lopes made most of the good tracks, and Jun Senoue made all the “bad” tracks (“bad” since some people enjoy some of those songs). I’m just kinda confused on why they didn’t just have Tee Lopes do all the music since they do such a good job. Also, some of the emerald powers are fun to use and work well, but a vast majority of them I just kinda ignored. The stage design kinda felt like it was from sonic cd if that makes any sense, and while that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I was hoping for something better (also I hate golden capital act 2 with a passion). Multiplayer mode is also kinda broken and jank, but I honestly kinda expected that.
Just happened to come across this video and i have to say, not only do I agree with most of your points but kudos to you for really illustrating your points well.
I think one additional point that I would mention that Superstars really lacked was speed. The player has maybe 2 or 3 short opportunities across all of the levels to reach top speed for at least 5 seconds. While we definitely understand its a platforming game, I feel like Superstars really muddled that sense of speed that Mania and Generations got right.
sonic superstars failed for stupid reasons honestly its not even because people are tired of classic sonic gameplay
Yeah, I agree. It's not terrible, but it's definitely not worth the $60, lol.
@@Plexi.T def not worth 60 i got it for 49 with dlc
@@waff69I got the premium edition half its price
it's not classic burnout, it's bad game burnout
@@Chillipeffer for me its a classic burnout the game is fine but i have a hard time finding it interesting
There was only one real reason to play Sonic Superstars and that's Amy Rose. the one thing that Mania abandoned.
i played sonic superstars but i quit because of the bosses i would rather play origins or mania cause at least the bosses are better
Yeah, those things go on for like 30 minutes a pop lmao 🤣
I’m guessing the reason the bosses in Superstars have such a long stall time is because of the multiplayer aspect, but I wish they just gave bosses more health instead of longer stalling
Top 10 reason why mania is so much better than superstar:
numero 1: better boss theme.
Thank for watching.
(edit: mania's soundtrack is enough to beat superstars so ye)
👌
Why "numero" in spanish lol
@@tatsukimasu sorry if I get spanish wrong ha ha 😂
I think the greatest irony of Superstars' music is that the Genesis titles don't even have what Johnny VS describes as the console's signature "twang", but it goes out lf it's way to be as twangy as possible.
And i don't think they did a particular good job at emulating that either, the Genesis chip had a grit to it, while Superstars sounds like they just loaded up 'fm synth 3' preset.
@@GarryLarryBarry lmao! Not FM synth 3 preset!
Producers in the house!
I still don't understand why people have problems with press factory, I mean, the background and the platforms have a counter to indicate when the floor will make you jump, you just have to catch the rhythm. I don't mind the instant death in act two because they give you a generous amount of time to push a button
The genesis sound isn’t even bad, it’s just that whoever is in charge of using it, doesn’t know how to use it
The game looked great in the trailers but I was really disappointed when I played it
Exactly my point lmao. At least make it look as good as Sonic Generations, why is that game still one of the best Sonic game unironically 😅
PlexiTier, I love your channel so much, I just had to subscribe!
It's simple, really. Superstars isn't fun, Mania is.
i would rather play a sonic game that have zones from older games that are fun from start to finish without any bad one and a soundtrack that is pure gold than a game with original zones but barely one of them is above average and the quality rise and drop from time to time and a soundtrack that i can count how many good tracks there are on one hand.
Mania’s levels - Reuses old levels but still maintains their fun factor and keeps/tweak/expands the original level designs. All while including 4 incredible original zones that are creative and unique.
Superstars levels - Carnival, Factory, Desert, Robot fortress, Jungle, Water Palace. No uniqueness or stylistic flare. All corporate friendly, with one or two exceptions.
In short, sometimes less is more.
@@Butwhythough881 I disagree, the water palace robot fortress, desert, etc have stylistic flare and uniqueness. I don`t see how it`s "corporate friendly".
A local theater should do a production of "Waiting for Godot", except this version would be "Waiting for the Opportunity to Attack the Sonic Superstars Boss".
2:48 That sounds like some beta version of Fang's theme, because it sounds so bland and repetitive as if there's no polish applied to not waste much time on idea and melody which could be boring later on...
Nah that’s an insult to betas cause even those sound 10x more interesting than that
It sounds like a soundtrack from sonic 4.
@@yes.2780 hey the sonic 4 metal sonic fight theme was pretty good
@@Astro-9707 yup
the level design in both Mania and Generations suit sonic well.
Sonic Mania started as a passion project primarily produced by known members of the Sonic ROM hacking community. Superstars is a corporate product.
People have played in those same classic zones, with the same gimmicks, and heard the same songs for 20 years now (though mania has some fire remixes). Having new zones, new songs, no lives, 3D visuals, not annoying special stages/ ring locations, having gold enemies to find, and being able to swap characters between acts goes a long way for some people (I’m people).
I also can’t understand why people hate press factory so much. Just jump, I thought it was really fun playing around it. and momentum jumps with the bounces are fun. Only stages I really would say are wack is the final stage, though I don’t like pretty much any final stage in classic games, and golden capital act 2. Lava reef, oil ocean, metallic madness, Titan monarch , and press garden act 1 can all kick rocks.
Almost all bosses from both games can kick rocks. metal sonic, mean bean, hydrocity, and the green guy can stay from mania. the water bosses, the piggy bank, and press factory 2 can stay from superstars. Everyone else is just straight annoying.
"New means good". The reason why people have played those same things for 20 to 30 years IS because they want to play it again and a Mania is plenty of a remix.
Awesome video and a great analysis on both games!
Funnily enough, SRB2 feels more like a proper sequel to Mania than Superstars ever did, just plop some character mods related to the classic series in there as well as a momentum mod and you're pretty much all set. I say this because a lot of the design processes that makes Mania great also applies there. And even if you don't vibe with the whole semi-3D aesthetic, there's also Sonic Galactic which so far looks to be an even more direct follow up to Mania. Superstars though feels more like the type of game that would've been released on the 3DS with reused assets from Generations, not bad but very underwhelming in comparison to any of those games.
Personally the saddest part about all of this to me though is that they overall did my boy Fang pretty dirty, and Trip is introduced in a not so great game. It's sad because at this rate I don’t think *any* of the characters that are still stuck in the "classic" series will leave it despite still being just as popular and well liked, all because of stupid made up reasons. Don't get me wrong I get that they want that series to have more of its own identity, (Whatever that means) but it's still so jarring that characters like Fang, Mighty, and Ray aren't in any of the "modern" games while three members of the Chaotix are. I'm sure Trip won't be added to those either, so her addition in such a mid game like this is even stranger. It all makes no sense, especially since both sides of Sonic are, you know, still supposed to all be a part of the same timeline. But that's all a discussion for another day.
Oh well, at least Triple Trouble 16-Bit also treated Fang nicely. *Moral of the story: Fang is typically in the best Sonic fan games because he's the best Sonic character.* It's just a shame the same can't be said for him in an official one… (Unless you count Mania, but that wasn't really him and Mania started off as a fan game itself, could ya tell?)
15:14 Civilization VI reference? I really enjoyed watching this Video. This editing style and interesting theme really caught my attention.
Side note: I think the Classic Sonic Pixel style with great Sprites, Animations, Music, etc. is just really Nostalgic or just… Sonic for us! That is the huge Diffrence. Even tho Generations is great, Adventure is great, and yes, I also think Sonic Forces isn’t „Bad“, Classic Sonic is just awesome.
Thanks, I'm really glad you enjoyed the video 😊
Your deconstruction of the "level design" felt a bit too shallow for a video whose title starts with "Game Designer Explains:". I feel like there is much, much more than just stage gimmicks when it comes to sonic level design. The fact that you didn't even mention the structuring and principles that have consistently appeared in 2D sonic level design way past the genesis games, and how they differ between mania and superstars gives the impression that you don't really have the best understanding of what makes a "sonic" level tick; the flow between speed and platforming, multi-tiered intertwining level design, passivity traps, interesting use of terrain curvature, rewarding use of physics based movement, these are things that are all present in both of these games, yet differ in very subtle ways that do end up setting them apart from each other. These are all very nuanced elements that feed into the fundamental idea of rewarding active and skillful play with speed and ultimately define what a 2D sonic game is. I suggest you go look these things up because i think there is a very interesting discussion to be had with how mania and superstars' levels *truly* differ from one another. Basically what I'm telling you is that you should watch all of Pariah695's early "Sonic was Always Good" videos because I've been pretty much parroting a bunch of things he's taught me about sonic LOL please watch his videos they are incredibly comprehensive
Yeah, I know I could have been a lot more detailed and specific with my analysis. I didn't want the video to be longer than what it already is, so I decided to sort of simplify the details. I plan on making a much more deep, and detailed level design video that I want to be at least 1 hour long, and that'll be on the Final Level of every Sonic game. Hopefully I'm able to do better with my analysis in that video.
completely agree on the superstars bosses. I wanna be to blaze in there as Super Sonic damage rush the boss to death in like 5 seconds then move on. And then on later on they give us fake victories on bosses that already took me several attempts to beat. I just completely lost interest about halfway Trip's run because I kept dying and just wasn't having fun anymore
i liked the game but i know ill just be harassed and told im wrong, which is a shame that its come to that in this day and age
i liked most of the main story, bosses aside, its just trips story i hated
but i find myself enjoying all of the regular versions of the main stages
obviously i dont prefer it over mania, but i still had fun
again though, ill be called stupid or something
It's completely ok to like the game lol. Like I said, it's not bad, just I think Mania is better.
I think people including myself for why some people prefer Superstars because of how dehydrated we were for new classic Sonic content or at the very least wanting to see more from classic Sonic than just a use of nostalgia which SEGA only viewed as which they still see it in some cases, I prefer Superstars in most cases despite I can acknowledge it’s very noticeable flaws but that doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate Mania at all, I still love Mania and that game next to Origins is why I have such a big preference on classic Sonic, I guess I felt a little burnt out from the game as a whole after so long.
I do agree with a lot of the points you made in this video tho, and I do hope those critics will carry over onto the sequel but it doesn’t seem like will be getting it anytime soon since SEGA doesn’t consider it a success despite selling well, the issue being that SEGA went into Superstars expecting the same financial result as Frontiers which there were a few reasons that wouldn't be the case and because of it it seems like SEGA is gonna leave Classic sonic for a long while which is unfortunate, hope I’m wrong tho because despite Superstars flaws there’s a lot of potential to be fixed up if given a second chance.
While I feel Superstars was definitely overhated, it doesn’t stand a chance against Mania and Generations, I enjoyed how Sonic looked and his animations, but there were things I didn’t like, such as that frame rate thing you brought up. Superstars was a good game in my opinion, I mean when me and my friends played Multiplayer nobody knew who was who and where we were, it was great, but it doesn’t compare to the greats of Classic Sonic
hey, whats the music that plays in the outro? 19:14
the special stage theme for Sonic Superstars
@@Plexi.T ty
Mario: Grassland, Ocean, Desert, Forest, Ice World, Fire World, Boss.
Sonic: Green Hill, Chemical Plant, Pinball, Sky Sanctuary, City Escape, Metal Sonic, Rooftop Run, Metropolis, Death Egg, Boss.
Sonic Superstars: Grassland, Ocean, Desert, Forest, Ice World, Fire World, Boss.
Really original in its complete unoriginality.
Yes! Someone is finally bringing this up!!! Thank you!!!
😐 It’s not like Mania had a choice like Superstars. After all Mania was marked as “returning to the past” since it was ment to be an anniversary game.
I don't have a problem with most of these issues , i just wish if it was cheaper
fair.
the thing to say about the music: If you look in the files, and even in the credits, some jun senoue sonic 4 style versions of bridge island and other tracks are still leftover in the games data, and the credits also still uses these versions, implying the game was so rushed that not even the music was finished
Lovely video!
Please what song did you use during the ending segment XD
The special stage theme for Sonic Superstars
@@Plexi.T thank you!
@@shinbeet.5708 np! 👍
I spent a LOT of time on that Metal Fighter battle in _Superstars_ so I learned plenty of tricks. You can hit the Metal Fighter when it's charging at you.
My opinion before actually watching the video:
If you want an original game, play Superstars. If you want a good game, play Mania.
Also notice how the trailer has the background BLURRED, so that it doesn't visually confuse with the active stage. This is an important element that is lacking from the actual game... a sense of actual seperation of active and non active sections of the level on screen.
sonic fans try to like sonic games challenge: impossible
am i the only one who doesn't have any issues whatsoever aside from price? the songs sound good (on classic sonic overall, forces included) aside from like, 1 or 2 that are avarage, the levels and bosses are pretty fun from what i remember
my only issue is price
that goes for most, if not all mainline sonic games
also that super mario example can be used for literally 99% of the games in media, just replacing mario with something else💀 like seriously how petty do you need to be to use that example unironically
4:09 Love how they put a wanted poster for fang in the background, maybe that’s where superstars got it’s revive fang thing cuz I’m sure they forgot about triple trouble
The sonic fandom is stupid :)
🤨
As a sonic fan, I can agree
Fantastic video, but is it me or at 14:32 Eggman's Mech look yellowish here in this video, when all other videos of it it's pure red?
I see the "Superstars is better than Mania" comment surprisingly regularly, and it's got to be one of the most shit tier takes I've ever seen regarding Sonic. The kind of thing that makes me want to keep my distance from this fanbase.
This fandom is great keep doing this is why your best fandom
I just got superstars the other day and have been personally loving it. I never could get into sonic mania for some reason
Hey wait going by the end of this video....do you in fact have any connections to the game known as Spark the electric jester by any chance? 👀
Good video! The amount of people on Twitter saying superstars is better than mania was crazy. Hopefully they know what to do better when designing a new classic sonic game in the future
Thank you, mate. I really appreciate it. I think I might even have some of those people in the comments right now 😅
I think we have to settle on either 'htting it out the park' or 'blowing it out the water', though I admire your mixing of the two:)
4:30 it was definitely worth sending more time on, call me a glazer but the mania ost is too beautiful.
Jun Senoue is the one to blame to those horrible tracks, he could just take his guitar out to the party and cook some sweet tracks but stayed (or made him stay, we still dont know how things work internally) sticked to that awful genesis chiptune
The Genesis has an awesome chiptune if used correctly. The problem is Jun himself doesn’t know how to compose 16-bit music. Games like Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Streets of Rage 2 prove the system can sound amazing in the right hands.
@@lutherh6090 The worst thing is : he did fucking compose 16 Bit music ! Mostly the Act Clear in S3K and Green Grove and Panic Puppet in S3DB/FI.
So true about the music. Used to listen Sonic Mania's music for couple of months on Spotify after completing the game and sometimes I come back to it. To make a point - I can't remember another time I ever used to listen to music from any game outside playing it.
And Studiopolis is SO GOOD - my favorite zone AND favorite music.
Meanwhile, Sonic Superstars... Just stopped playing after couple of zones. And music overall is extremely underwhelming. Like you said - medium at best. Even the Digital Foundry had used to talk about it back in the day.
This is why Sega needs to have more mainline games made by fans of the franchise.
Sega: *Handed home runs with Colors Ultimate, Origins, and Superstars.
Also Sega: *Uses the baseball bat to knock themselves out with each swing instead.
Mania is a superior game in almost every meaningful way. The fact some people don't understand why is simply testament to why not everyone can do a job like this: Be a game designer, game artist, game musician, level designer, etc.
Not related, but can you change the brightness in Superstars or smth like that
What kind of games do you make?
Everyone is tired of the sonic games trying to make genesis like and sega keeps pulling this bs.
To be fair, Sonic Frontier went in a whole new direction, but I get your point.
@@Plexi.T Sorry, maybe i should have wrote 2D Sonic games on that.
Tbh, frontiers aside from boss fights kind of was a little boring.
i am a huge sonic fan, but i literally cannot get into sonic superstars. i'm so glad i'm not the only one...its just frustrating that it was $60! like i want to play so i get my money's worth but its hard to get into.
Conclusion : sonic mania looks like a pice of art, meanwhile sonic superstars looks like a cheap platform game that you probably you would found as that platformer game that came free with a ps5.
Well said 👏
LONG ASS boss fights with no checkpoints. That’s why it failed.
Even though, I did enjoy superstars quite a bit. Mania is so much better that it's embarrassing that Superstars is the follow up. Nice video, I do say tho Lagoon City in Superstars is definitely the highlight and enjoyed the level design of it a lot and the aestetics of it. I honestly think Superstars would be a better game by tenfold if the game was 2D pixel art.
I can get what you mean. But honestly a 3-D classic Sonic game with the level design and graphical work of Sonic Generations makes be salivate as well. 🤤
Sonic Superstars should have been a successor to Rush Adventure/Colors DS/Generations 3DS
Especially rush adventure.
their a mod someone working on that showed what it would look like if Rush Sonic was in Superstars and I gotta say, it looks far more better than this, like it was made to be one but then they decided to drop Classic into it
@@JadenFox9 Oh thank god
I honestly think had they made the multiplayer split screen and different path ways like when you see characters in the background that would have been at least some saving grace also no online co-op of the main story was weird to me even if they added co-op only stages with drop in and out game play that didn't stop the flow.
I like superstars better
i still think 3k is better than mania but overall, mania is the better game by not having a single zone that you would call ''bad'' or ''boring'' but even if you say ''new zones are better than reused zones'', superstars is not and never will be better than mania
(also mania was very buggy at launch but the game was so good that people mostly ignored it)
I actually liked superstars more then mainia but that's probably just me
These 3D side scroll Son8c Games feel like a fast version of little big planet. 3D belongs in a 360° realm.
I haven't watched you in awhile, your voice got deep lmao
uh, thanks lol 😅
The reason why this superstar failed for me is because no 16 bit sprite animation, lvl design ...
And bad ost
Sonic Mania just doesnt have the staying power of the other games because all it does past the initial playthrough is remind me of the originals I could be playing instead.
Aside from that Superstars level design is fantastic. Its a wonderful game to Time Attack. Its also more feature rich than Mania and moves 2D Sonic forward. Not just clinging to the past, when we JUST had Sonic Generations.
I love both games but I barely go back to Mania. Would rather play og Sonic 1 2 CD and 3
Alot of the issues with superstars musically boils down to One key thesis "Imitation Vs Inspiration"
Where superstars fails at its worst is with the tracks made by Jun Sunoe, and even with the rest of the Sound team that aim to lightly imitate the work of tee lopes,
But at its best Superstars And Mania Carry the inspiration of the classic era,
Also Compositionally it just kinda sucks.
A lot of my issues with the Ost, is that its the most inconsistent and also the most non sonic feeling songs in the franchise.
@@MelakiraMusici'm gonna be quite frank with you, some of those songs sound way worse than what we've got in S4EP1, at least they sounded like they were _trying._ but when i take a listen to Fang's theme in Superstars... i genuinely cannot grasp the thought that Jun, one of the most talented musicians for the Sonic games is able to make songs sound this barebones.
"the rest of the Sound team that aim to lightly imitate the work of tee lopes"
Mitsuyoshi sounds a lot closer to Jun Senoue
Nagata used Genesis hardware recordings, which would make it closer to Jun Senoue
Maeda sounded closer to Jun
Itoh sounded closer to Jun
And most of the other composers, such as Takahiro Kai, had their own entirely unique styles.
Soma does sound like Tee Lopes in some areas, but that's about it. If you look at the actual soundtrack, you're just blatantly false.
For someone with "music" in their username, I'd expect some better insight.
People really comparing peak mania to garbage sonic superstar
What are people on
I don't know and I don't want it 😂
Fang has his Triple Trouble theme integrated into the new track.
Sonic Superstars is okay, and kinda fun… but the boss fights SUCK and there’s too much mandatory waiting.
Mania is a masterpiece.
Also Titanic Monarch is from 3D Blast, kind of.
Mania had a few levels that kinda drag at least on the first few times you play through them, but that's about it. Super Stars found a way to annoy me in every level lol.
I got a glitch in Sonic Mania chemical Plant were if you hit a Robotnik Box and then go in a pipe you'd be blasted into the air.
I love both games. I think both add cool stuff to the mix and they are great gaming experiences. Was 70€/$ an absolute abuse for Sonic Superstars? Yes, it was. Nonetheless, a really cool game with new levels and dynamics. I think Sonic Superstars is the right way to go with modern Sonic 2D, but I agree that it could learn some things of Sonic Generations in terms of gamechanging dynamics. I would love a Sonic Superstars 2 where the characters had more powers, as in Sonic Advance (knuckles had his fire fists, tails a tail attack, etc.) + Sonic 3 power shields that only Sonic had to be generalized to all the characters. Sonic Mania was excelent but I also think that Sonic Superstars is great and have A LOT to offer, the animations are so cool and it very fun to play with.
The problem with the retro compositions is that a lot of newer musicians don't know how to utilize the Sega Genesis sound chip very well. They use sound fonts, and none of the percussion from Sonic 3&Knuckles.
It would be like if I took all the instruments from Green Hills zone and used only those to make music for new zones.
Even the original musicians did better than than.
Damn, that was a really succinct, and well-argued point that I completely agree with. I feel like they should stick to making more modern -sounding tracks for the classic levels, in order to make them stand out more.
@Plexi.T I mean, I definitely enjoyed and appreciated the updated styles and aesthetics of Sonic Mania soundtrack. It's definitely great.
I just also think that musicians could do a better job with making new music on actual Sega Genesis hardware.
I made an original track for WoodZone from Sonic 2 beta.
Though I used the actual drums from Sonic 2, I custom designed every single instrument from scratch, and it plays off the original hardware.
Hopefully I'll finish and post it sometime.
@@Plexi.T Oh! I remember I made this track 8 years ago. It'll play only on Genesis hardware:
th-cam.com/video/lvzDXrzpXws/w-d-xo.htmlsi=bwNFQ1Ss_Ig8LE0r
@@Plexi.TJun senoue had concert that time, he didnt have time to polish the music. He only had limited resources.
Mania was made by fans that actually love the franchise, that's the reason.
Maybe if ppl weren’t expecting this game to be as good as mania when THEY ARENT EVEN IN THE SAME DIMENSION, AND THEY WERENT MADE BY THE SAME DEVS
Bro's like "Fuck the copyright strikes im putting all the music in this lets go".
Respect
And also, Sega is pretty lenient when it comes to that stuff.
@@Plexi.T sega arent the problem, its the randos flagging it under remixes and whatnot
@@Plexi.T oh shit sorry you're the guy that made the video ^^ loved it and ive subbed. You cool
Finally someone understands why sonic mania is better than superstars and take no second thought why its better
I enjoy both Sonic Mania and Superstars, but I think Mania is still better.
Leave it up to the sonic fandom to hate on a previously beloved game out of nowhere for no reason