The best way to describe Superstars is that it feels like a lost 3DS game. Had it released on the handheld in like 2016, I don’t think it would be getting dogged on as much, even when it has a $60 price tag and is an overall below average experience. And it wasn’t like they needed Headcannon or Evening Star to develop it. Mania was the perfect blueprint to make a brilliant successor that was more than just Mania with new levels and 4-player co-op. It feels like they knew that people were gonna buy it because of Mania’s success and cranked it out to try and rival Mario Wonder.
@@Plexi.TAt least Mario Wonder knew what it wanted to be from start to finish didn’t come off as just “New Super Mario Bros but with a new coat of paint and level shifting gimmick” The only real praise/defense I’ve seen people make for Superstars is its ambition rather than its execution of those ambitions. Which if that’s all people wanted out of Superstars, a Mania like experience with original levels, then I’m glad they’re expectations were met. However, the comparison between Mania’s execution of its concepts compared to Superstars’ is night and day and I can go back to Mania first before Superstars. Sorry this reply was long btw.
@Butwhythough881 It's OK, I'm completely fine with long responses. I also want to stress that I don't think Superstars is a bad video game, it's just WAY too expensive, and doesn't live up to my (and many other peoples) expectations of what a "3-D" classic Sonic game should look and feel like.
@@Plexi.T I understand that. I don’t think Superstars is terrible either. It falls into the same category as Sonic 4 Episode 2. It’s fine enough for what it does do, but I wouldn’t put it any higher than being a substandard experience for me. If it had the same price tag as Mania and better execution of its ambitions, mainly the new levels and bosses, i’d consider it to be a better experience for me.
Oh for sure Superstars feels like it was meant to be on 3DS, the screen feels so zoomed in and you barely react to enemies while you’re speeding through levels. And this is coming from someone who likes the Advance and Rush games. Wish those games could remade with a 16:9 aspect ratio.
I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Sonic Mania, but I can already see which one will age better. Sonic Mania is a game that can be enjoyed from beginning to end, while Sonic Superstars can hardly be enjoyed for more than two stages without interruptions.
the catapillar boss aside, i'd argue that in Mania, even all of the bosses that make you wait to hit the boss easily makes up for it by still making playing the game entertaining during that window of time.
You also have more control over the pace of boss combat. If you are passive then your fights take longer. Most of SuperStars bosses are effective auto scrollers.
From the perspective of an amateur game designer, I felt like forced nothing periods can work, on the basis that the entire point is to create a feeling of tension from the player through putting them in a kind of “endurance test” in a way, as well as be a test of good timing so that players aren’t just mindlessly cheesing their way through bosses. That being said, it’s not easy to pull off because of the risk in creating boring stall scenarios, and that is often due to the bosses have repetitive patterns. Games like Super Bomberman R are notorious for this.
The thing about Fang's theme is that, while it doesn't sound "bad" to me, what it _does_ sound like is... confused. Were I to hear it without that context, I would not be able to tell what it's supposed to be for, and the _last_ thing I'd guess is "bounty hunter boss music". Considering my view of what makes music significant in the first place? That's an even _worse_ failure than sounding bad.
what confuses me as a game composer is the length of some of the tracks. the game scenario has bosses that are actually quite long while the game music for those boss encounters is designed to sound very simple, short and repetitive.. like, i say this with no exaggeration, you can get into a 10 minute fight with fang and his song is a 30 second loop. i just think that's not.. good. his theme from triple trouble (the *8-BIT* game he originated from) is longer than his theme in superstars. like what the heck?
It is objectively terrible, literally any person that considers themselves an amateur musician could do something better than *that*. Sound selection is TERRIBLE, arrangement is bad and it's horribly short.
This video is called "Game Designer Explains" so I was expecting you to talk more about game design. Most of it is about aesthetic and concepts. The music commentary is also lacking knowledge about the subject (i.e. what soundchips are) For me, the title really lead me to except something else. If it had been "my thoughts on superstars" I think I would have more prepared for this kind of video. Your video is perfectly fine! Just know that a title like that can lead to a certain expectation different from the actual content. Have good day and keep at it! 🙂
Christian Whitehead seemed to want to make more original stages for Mania, but Sega mandated his team bring back classic stages, and that he include the Phantom Ruby to tie into Sonic Forces. So he did his best to put a new spindash on each of those stages and wrote a better story than Forces involving the Phantom Ruby and the origin of the Hard-Boiled Heavies. Side note: The Hard-Boiled Heavies are some of the most well-thought out and cool designed baddies since Mephiles, Chaos, Metal Sonic and even Shadow. Infinite, The Generic Deadly Six, and The Amorphous Purple Asteroid from Frontiers got nothing on The Heavy King. Whitehead did an interesting interview on the Heavies and how their names and personas were manifested by the Phantom Ruby. The animal in Heavy King’s Egg Robo saw itself as a king, hence the name, personality and appearance. Brilliant!
@@EWOODJ ... but it's not shallow? At least you acknowledge that. Implying that it's not "that deep" implies that it's deep but not in a way where it's not too deep.
Personally, Maina has more replay value than Superstars, people like to harp on Mania for not having more original zones (which was because Sega wanted them, not the devs) but those zones are much much better quality-wise than Superstars. That's not to say Superstars itself is a terrible game.
@MisterSandmanAU mania is a collection of past levels and new levels with a new look while superstars is a direct sequel to the classics. There completely different concepts
Sonic Mania is still one of my favorite Sonic games, & I still play it to this very day. I wanted to like Superstars, but the boss fights are the reason why I stopped playing it anymore, and the music quality is all over the place.
I think the greatest irony of Superstars' music is that the Genesis titles don't even have what Johnny VS describes as the console's signature "twang", but it goes out lf it's way to be as twangy as possible.
And i don't think they did a particular good job at emulating that either, the Genesis chip had a grit to it, while Superstars sounds like they just loaded up 'fm synth 3' preset.
What that hack Jun Senoue fails to realise is that back in the 90s, the game composers weren't trying to "sound retro", they were trying to make the absolute best possible tunes for what they had.
I don’t like Superstars because of it’s bosses they take WAY to long to beat and the final bosses of each story are unreasonably difficult having 2-3 phases all taking at least 7 hits to beat before the next phase and it takes so long to hit between attacks they also have instant kill attacks they drag on too long.
@@Plexi.T I guess that's the power of advertising. I imagine Mania was mostly advertised through the Sonic Twitter account which is somewhat niche, whereas Superstars was advertised more broadly because Mania was successful so I doubt numbers tell the whole story. I wouldn't lose hope though, Paper Mario Sticker Star was a huge downgrade from previous paper mario games, and still sold a ton because fans didn't realize it was a downgrade until after they bought it. But the sequel, Paper Mario Color Splash, sold abysmally because even on the Wii U which was mostly owned by diehard Nintendo fans, they weren't going to fall for the same thing twice. I think way too many people bought Superstars because everyone hyped up Mania, and then some people got frustrated they wasted $60 and are trying to cope hard lol
The thing with Mania is, even though over half the game is stages from past Sonic games, the way each stage is designed and reimagined puts an emphasis on variety and arguably making these stages even better than their original counterparts, so it doesn’t feel like you are going through “uninspired” rehashed levels. I haven’t played Superstars yet, but it looks like it suffers from just going through standard level design motions without anything to make them stand out. It’s basically Sonic 4 all over again.
@@Mrdepression9 it was only marginally better at best. The physics still sucked and the level design was forgettable, not to mention its completely unsatisfying ending both on a regular run and a completionist one.
2:48 That sounds like some beta version of Fang's theme, because it sounds so bland and repetitive as if there's no polish applied to not waste much time on idea and melody which could be boring later on...
I still don't understand why people have problems with press factory, I mean, the background and the platforms have a counter to indicate when the floor will make you jump, you just have to catch the rhythm. I don't mind the instant death in act two because they give you a generous amount of time to push a button
Sonic mania was the first sonic game i played since sonic mega collection so i was excited when i saw another classic game coming but now im just back to mania
i would rather play a sonic game that have zones from older games that are fun from start to finish without any bad one and a soundtrack that is pure gold than a game with original zones but barely one of them is above average and the quality rise and drop from time to time and a soundtrack that i can count how many good tracks there are on one hand.
Mania’s levels - Reuses old levels but still maintains their fun factor and keeps/tweak/expands the original level designs. All while including 4 incredible original zones that are creative and unique. Superstars levels - Carnival, Factory, Desert, Robot fortress, Jungle, Water Palace. No uniqueness or stylistic flare. All corporate friendly, with one or two exceptions. In short, sometimes less is more.
@@Butwhythough881 I disagree, the water palace robot fortress, desert, etc have stylistic flare and uniqueness. I don`t see how it`s "corporate friendly".
Just happened to come across this video and i have to say, not only do I agree with most of your points but kudos to you for really illustrating your points well. I think one additional point that I would mention that Superstars really lacked was speed. The player has maybe 2 or 3 short opportunities across all of the levels to reach top speed for at least 5 seconds. While we definitely understand its a platforming game, I feel like Superstars really muddled that sense of speed that Mania and Generations got right.
A local theater should do a production of "Waiting for Godot", except this version would be "Waiting for the Opportunity to Attack the Sonic Superstars Boss".
i dont understand how the entire internet suddenly forgot how amazing sonic mania is. the game aint changed since the dlc-- why is everybody acting like mania is mid or smtn? ntm how people were glazing it(deservedly) within the first 2 years of it's release
I’m guessing the reason the bosses in Superstars have such a long stall time is because of the multiplayer aspect, but I wish they just gave bosses more health instead of longer stalling
their a mod someone working on that showed what it would look like if Rush Sonic was in Superstars and I gotta say, it looks far more better than this, like it was made to be one but then they decided to drop Classic into it
I spent a LOT of time on that Metal Fighter battle in _Superstars_ so I learned plenty of tricks. You can hit the Metal Fighter when it's charging at you.
As for Mania zones, we have 1 from Sonic 1, 2 from Sonic 2 and CD, 3 from Sonic 3&K, (Angel Island doesn't count), and 4 originals. I heard the reason why there are only 4 original zones in Mania is because of SEGA's mandates. So that is another knock against SEGA. Another knock against Superstars is there is no score. Sure you get some points from smashing the badnicks and from finishing the acts but there is no score in display which makes speedruning and ring hoarding pointless because there is no score. And sure there is no live system either but you could get the coins from every 50K points but it's not here. I heard that originally Christian Whitehead team was developing their own Sonic project but it was canceled and replaced by the Arzest dev team. A team that hasn't exactly proven to be amazing and with Superstars they have proven that they are not an amazing dev team. This could be a knock towards SEGA but I imagine that Takashi Iizuka had a hand in this. I mean he was part of Sonic Superstars development. Lastly, Team Evening Star (the Christian Whitehead team) did make Penny's Big Breakaway. Just letting you know.
Honestly, if you asked me which one of the 2 Sonic games would I like to replay after beating, it would be Sonic Mania. Every time I had some ask to play a sonic game and they said sonic superstars, I would be disappointed because I know that I'm going to be bored to tears. To make matters worse, this game came out around the time Super mario wonders, and Spider-man 2 came out.
I haven't Mania played that much but I agree it's I played Superstars and notice it's glaring issues 1. It's Bosses: Mania handled them really them really well quick , easy and simple to understand while superstars it's bosses take really long , have too many patterns , long invinciblity frames especially the ones later on in the game to point where they take long than actual stage itself Classic sonic bosses are supposed to be simple , quick , and easy to understand not have long repetitive patterns Superstars bosses don't fit for a Classic Sonic game The Music: Mania had an amazing soundtrack some of them are Sonic CD JP Quality especially in the Act 2s such Metallic Madness Act 2 Studiopolis Act 1&2 , Green Hill , Press Garden I could go on and on but you get the idea while Superstars has an inconsistent soundtrack Some of them are really good such as Lagoon City Act 1 , 2 and Act Amy Lagoon City Act 2 is literally a Modern day Sonic CD Stage Some of sound like Baby Toys or Sonic 4 music such as Fang Boss Fight in Sonic and Some speak for themselves such as Press Factory Act 1 overall the Soundtrack is a mixed bag Gameplay: Mania took everything that made The Classic Sonic games so special and reinvent them in a Modern way it's gimmicks felt natural and part of level itself it's physics are one to one with the other classics but in a smooth 60fps It's special and bonus stages are really fun every character feels fun to play as while superstars some parts of what made the classics special but also took some unfun elements as well it's gimmicks don't feel natural and part of the level itself but feels forced it's special and bonus stages are alright it's special stages are boring in my opinion not as fun as mania' s but still good smooth physics but not as smooth as mania every character feels fun to play but sonic's drop dashing feels nerfed and knuckles gliding and exploration felt fun in mania since you have to explore for the giant rings and elemental shields while in superstars exploration feels pointless you don't get any elemental shields rather than a basic shield and a magnet shield and it's giant rings you collect one per level in mania you can collect five emeralds in one level while in superstars you collect one per level Overall Presention: I and many people prefer mania over superstars but that doesn't mean it's bad but superstars is not worth the full price Mania is worth 60$ if you ask me Mania is smooth from being to end while superstars had some rocks on it's way Side Note 1 : My only grip with Mania is that it reuses old zones from previous Sonic games Side Note 2 : That comment took very long to type
@@carolineneh2791I’m pretty sure I agree with basically everything you said. The weirdest part of superstar’s music is that tee lopes made most of the good tracks, and Jun Senoue made all the “bad” tracks (“bad” since some people enjoy some of those songs). I’m just kinda confused on why they didn’t just have Tee Lopes do all the music since they do such a good job. Also, some of the emerald powers are fun to use and work well, but a vast majority of them I just kinda ignored. The stage design kinda felt like it was from sonic cd if that makes any sense, and while that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I was hoping for something better (also I hate golden capital act 2 with a passion). Multiplayer mode is also kinda broken and jank, but I honestly kinda expected that.
My stance is that Superstars just feels exhausting to play, it's not AWFUL, but with the slow bosses and every 2 or so levels being a one act gauntlet it just feels far longer than it actually is. I can blast through over half of Mania easily in one session, but I could barely get through 3 acts of Superstars before calling it a break
Top 10 reason why mania is so much better than superstar: numero 1: better boss theme. Thank for watching. (edit: mania's soundtrack is enough to beat superstars so ye)
@@Mrdepression9 I mean if you only tell ONE single good point from mania those superstars fans will oof in the speed of light ha ha. (i hate how sh*t superstar's bosses is compare to mania).
Unpopular opinion as it seems but I actually REALLY like Superstars soundtrack and I wouldn't not want the retro style music in the game. Even though the Mania music typically has a higher quality and more going on and I respect that and love it, I like a lot of the simpler tunes in Superstars that sound like they were from the Genesis as well. I actually do agree that Lagoon City act 2 is the best song in Superstars but I disagree that it wouldn't be a standout in Mania, I like it better than many of the songs in Mania.
completely agree on the superstars bosses. I wanna be to blaze in there as Super Sonic damage rush the boss to death in like 5 seconds then move on. And then on later on they give us fake victories on bosses that already took me several attempts to beat. I just completely lost interest about halfway Trip's run because I kept dying and just wasn't having fun anymore
While I would agree to an extent that Mania is better, there are biases here like which game has better music. That will purely depend on taste. Sonic superstars is also trying out concept, leaning away from the traditional formula (multi branching to support 4 players at once. It does really succeed, but it's seeing what the market wants. If I use the engine from Super Mario World and target the retro market with a new Mario game, it's not likely that I won't hit a home run. So I try something like Super Mario Wonder and, even that game relies on New Super Mario Bros. Sonic, like all games, needs an evolution in the 2D space, so it will be a balancing act. Mania plays it safe, refining a true tested formula, but isn't really a step in a new direction. More of a nostalgia plus experience. Still a good game, but this won't help Sega sell more Sonic in the long run.
I see the "Superstars is better than Mania" comment surprisingly regularly, and it's got to be one of the most shit tier takes I've ever seen regarding Sonic. The kind of thing that makes me want to keep my distance from this fanbase.
4:09 Love how they put a wanted poster for fang in the background, maybe that’s where superstars got it’s revive fang thing cuz I’m sure they forgot about triple trouble
People have played in those same classic zones, with the same gimmicks, and heard the same songs for 20 years now (though mania has some fire remixes). Having new zones, new songs, no lives, 3D visuals, not annoying special stages/ ring locations, having gold enemies to find, and being able to swap characters between acts goes a long way for some people (I’m people). I also can’t understand why people hate press factory so much. Just jump, I thought it was really fun playing around it. and momentum jumps with the bounces are fun. Only stages I really would say are wack is the final stage, though I don’t like pretty much any final stage in classic games, and golden capital act 2. Lava reef, oil ocean, metallic madness, Titan monarch , and press garden act 1 can all kick rocks. Almost all bosses from both games can kick rocks. metal sonic, mean bean, hydrocity, and the green guy can stay from mania. the water bosses, the piggy bank, and press factory 2 can stay from superstars. Everyone else is just straight annoying.
"New means good". The reason why people have played those same things for 20 to 30 years IS because they want to play it again and a Mania is plenty of a remix.
I think Studiopolis Act 2 blows Act 1 out of the water, but both are quality tracks. I also preferred Press Garden Act 1 to Act 2. I think it goes to show how varied the tracks were, and how much each one aimed at particular tastes in music.
I really hate how desperately people want to compare games they like. You don't need to justify why you like something, it doesn't have to be quantifiably better. I like Superstars a lot, I like how it handles multiple playable characters and the chaos emerald powers, but its still rough in a lot of areas and is fairly buggy. There's nothing wrong with liking it anyways
I think the biggest problem sonic fans have is that they always compare one game to another game and then instantly when the masses agree with that comparison everyone else just hates it. Superstars is not a bad game. It has its problem sure, but when you compare it to how much we enjoyed mania then that’s where the distain comes in. Just enjoy what you have while you have it you paid money for it.
You calling yourself a "game designer" Doesn't justify the bias in this video. You don't explain ANYTHING from a technical standpoint, and your comparison between Generations and Superstars is wrong, since Generations pulls heavily from past games, including 3D ones, whereas Arzest pulls from past idea that Naoto Ohshima had on him that never made it into Sonic games. The two can't be compared at all. Naoto was looking to create and authentic 2D experience with 3D graphics, not a 2.5D gameplay experience in general. Superstars looks good on everything outside of the Switch and gets the job done. Sonic controls far better in Superstars than he does in both, Generations and Mania. (Mania has a problem with making Sonic run backwards while hitting springs at times.) Sure Mania's more polished, but that doesn't make Superstars a failure when it's ONLY major flaw are the bosses.
Man, the music reminds me so much of the Sonic 4 episode 1's music! My ears! _L-Leave me alone!_ *Ring * I hope they can manage to try to do original music with those instruments like they did in Episode 2 instead of "trying to sound nostalgic"
With all due respect, your coverage of this game's music is full of misinformation. This part of the video is just absolutely abysmal, and I'll be making a timestamp breakdown as to why. 1:47 You start by stating that musical tastes are pretty subjective, which is true. You immediately follow up by saying that Sonic Mania's music is simply better, with next to no elaboration as to why. You've already contradicted yourself in the first sentence. 2:02 You then proceed to cherrypick the music, using Tee Lopes' most popular song, followed by Jun Senoue's least popular song, and nothing else. Completely skipping over any Jun Senoue compositions that are well-liked (Sky Temple, Cyber Station, Press Factory Act 2, Battle Mode Menu, etc. etc.) Not to mention *18 other people* worked on the soundtrack besides those two. And they get zero mention here. 4:42 Here's where it stops being opinionated rambling, and becomes blatant misinformation. You claim that Sonic Forces' classic music was "ruined" by Sonic Team "mimic"ing the synth from the Genesis era. This is simply false. Sonic Forces used REAL GENESIS RECORDINGS for classic Sonic. Tomoya Ohtani has stated this himself. Him and Hataya made the songs using real hardware and custom patches. There's not much else to say, you're just wrong here. 5:29 "Sonic Mania has a vastly more faithful retro art aesthetic" No it doesn't. Genesis games did not look like Sonic Mania, with it's sharp pixels and complete lack of composite video effects. But that's off-topic. 5:50 "HD soundchip" HD. Soundchip. What is that? Seriously, what is that??? That is not a thing that exists. Do you actually think video game consoles still use soundchips??? 6:18 Lastly, this is yet another case of misinformation. "Sonic Generations doesn't do the synthesizer thing" Are you saying Generations didn't use synths? Practically the entire soundtrack was made using synthesizers. Not only that, but Korg Triton, *THE SAME EXACT SYNTH SONIC 4 EPISODE I USED* is also in the game, and is present in several songs. Listen, I get that you're not very musically inclined, I'm not that much either. But... don't say stuff like this then. If you're gonna call yourself a "game developer", you should at least know that "HD soundchip" is a rather silly phrase.
All they had to do was make it online co-op and it would’ve had my 10/10 Sonic 4 episode 2 already achieved this ages ago and it remains a guilty pleasure of mine to this day
am i the only one who doesn't have any issues whatsoever aside from price? the songs sound good (on classic sonic overall, forces included) aside from like, 1 or 2 that are avarage, the levels and bosses are pretty fun from what i remember my only issue is price that goes for most, if not all mainline sonic games
also that super mario example can be used for literally 99% of the games in media, just replacing mario with something else💀 like seriously how petty do you need to be to use that example unironically
Before I start this video, all I'm gonna say is, I saw a ton of promotion for Mania before its release. I didn't even see a TH-cam ad for Superstars until 2 weeks after. :/
Conclusion : sonic mania looks like a pice of art, meanwhile sonic superstars looks like a cheap platform game that you probably you would found as that platformer game that came free with a ps5.
Your deconstruction of the "level design" felt a bit too shallow for a video whose title starts with "Game Designer Explains:". I feel like there is much, much more than just stage gimmicks when it comes to sonic level design. The fact that you didn't even mention the structuring and principles that have consistently appeared in 2D sonic level design way past the genesis games, and how they differ between mania and superstars gives the impression that you don't really have the best understanding of what makes a "sonic" level tick; the flow between speed and platforming, multi-tiered intertwining level design, passivity traps, interesting use of terrain curvature, rewarding use of physics based movement, these are things that are all present in both of these games, yet differ in very subtle ways that do end up setting them apart from each other. These are all very nuanced elements that feed into the fundamental idea of rewarding active and skillful play with speed and ultimately define what a 2D sonic game is. I suggest you go look these things up because i think there is a very interesting discussion to be had with how mania and superstars' levels *truly* differ from one another. Basically what I'm telling you is that you should watch all of Pariah695's early "Sonic was Always Good" videos because I've been pretty much parroting a bunch of things he's taught me about sonic LOL please watch his videos they are incredibly comprehensive
Yeah, I know I could have been a lot more detailed and specific with my analysis. I didn't want the video to be longer than what it already is, so I decided to sort of simplify the details. I plan on making a much more deep, and detailed level design video that I want to be at least 1 hour long, and that'll be on the Final Level of every Sonic game. Hopefully I'm able to do better with my analysis in that video.
Mania is only held up in high regard by classic purists that are stuck in the past, which based on Mania's actual sales are a vocal minority. Mania itself just feels like nostalgia bait, especially when half the game is just the same unoriginal levels. It's a game catered to the journalists and oldheads. At least Superstars tries to be its own thing in most regards. The real problem with that game is the price tag. Even with Superstars being way overpriced it still managed to sell way more than Mania ever did and at a much faster pace.
I disagree. Though music taste is subjective, I prefer the level design in Superstars over Mania's. Mania's level design overly relies on slopes and loops to carry Sonic through. I swear about 50% of Mania's gameplay is simply "press down and watch Sonic go". It makes the game feel very automated. The more I replayed Mania it got old for me. I haven't played this game in years, and even still I only have 6 playthroughs on this game. Also, I'm not a fan of all of the fanservice in that game. The Puyo Puyo boss in particular feels like a pace-breaker. Superstars meanwhile has a greater focus on raw platforming. There's still a healthy amount of rolling and physics, but I'd say it's really only about 20% of the game. As a result, I feel a lot more involved in the gameplay, which makes it more satisfying for me. I also love the emerald powers, which offer new ways to engage with the levels. Admitedly, the idea of messing with the camera to give 2D levels a 3D feel WAS a good idea in Generations that I wish Superstars used as well. But when it boils down to actually playing the game, the changing camera doesn't really affect the platforming in any meaningful way. At the end of the day, it's still just 2D Sonic gameplay. I feel like I simply care a lot more about raw gameplay than about visuals and presentation, hence why I prefer Superstars's level design. I want platforming and multiple pathways, which I think Superstars delivers on with spades. Superstars feels a lot more like an actual platformer compared to Mania, which only wants to brag about how it was able to replicate classic physics. The boss fights are definately a point for fair criticism, but TBH, once I started using the emerald powers on them, they became much easier to handle. If you use these correctly, you don't have to wait for long to get an opening on the bosses, making them faster and more acceptable. They don't bother me so much now. I actually enjoy a healthy amount of them because I feel like they have some interesting gimmicks. The only few I flat out hate are the Sand Sanctuary boss, the auto-scroller with Fang in Golden Capital and the purple dragon. Last thing. What the hell was that point about Press Factory having annoying gimmicks? That's literally my favorite zone in Superstars. If the press machine bothers you, just jump when you hear the sound que of the machine so it won't send you upwards. It's just a skill issue you have. So yes, I DO prefer Superstars over Mania, but I feel like it's the result of different preferences in game design. Just because you're a game designer, doesn't mean your preferred approach to game design is objectively the right one.
I never said I was objectively right because I'm a game designer lol. I was just explaining why most people dislike Superstars, and why the comparisons to Mania are a little justified considering the game is Triple Mania's price.
@@Plexi.T I'll give you that. While I do prefer Superstars over Mania, I don't think the game is worth 60$. Frontiers was sold at the same price and that game has about 5 times as much content as Superstars. I'd say Superstars is worth 40$ at best. However, nowadays, you can find it at a fairer price on Steam or what-have-you.
Well uhh Superstars is the game where i hardlocked myself i literally cannot beat a stage due to the quality of the PC port and i cannot do a thing about it. Never happened in mania. I am bad at this.
Mania is the better game, but we can at least respect superstars for the new things they tried to do. It’s the first of its kind, mechanics will probably be refined in the future
I prefer Superstars to Mania for the simple fact that it is a "modern" game. It brought many improvements that make the experience more "playable", like the respawning Chaos Emeralds, being able to replay stages before finishing the game, actual multiplayer and much more. The lack of those things made sense in the 90s (without saves) but now are just annoying limitations. But still, I love both games and totally see why people prefer Mania to Superstars, but calling it a "Bad Game" is just the usual blind hate that the Sonic Community has always had.
Here’s what I think the simplest way to wrap up the differences is: Sonic Mania was made by fans of an original formula for Sonic gameplay and seeked to perfect what was already really good, whereas Sonic Superstars was intended to make a brand new formula that’s highly experimental compared to what they knew worked already, so they weren’t able to compare it to what everyone knew worked from before because nothing quite like it CAME before. Don’t fix what ain’t broken, just give it a new coat of paint and some polish. Even some older 3D sonic game mechanics would be great to have back if they were reimplemented well, had good level design, and weren’t in a sort of mediocre game.
5:04 honestly, the only "classic" song i feel like they slapped at doing was iron fortress, that was pretty fucking good ngl. me and my friends like that one
i liked the game but i know ill just be harassed and told im wrong, which is a shame that its come to that in this day and age i liked most of the main story, bosses aside, its just trips story i hated but i find myself enjoying all of the regular versions of the main stages obviously i dont prefer it over mania, but i still had fun again though, ill be called stupid or something
Just started Sonic Superstars and reached Zone 8. This game's flow and level design is weird. Really thought they would never mess up a side scrolling sonic game after Sonic Mania's success. Some Zones only have 1 act and the special stages are zero fun. Game movement feels weird and not a single boss is fun since you have wait to hit them. The emerald powers are a super cool concept, but some are very situational. Would have been better to have new shield monitor powers like S3&K ones. The best use of the powers is to bypass hit windows against bosses with clone power and red fire ball power. At least we have 4 playable characters.
![[TH] 2024 PMGC League | Survival Stage วันที่ 1 | PUBG MOBILE Global Championship](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FVFT-PFwU80/mqdefault.jpg)
The best way to describe Superstars is that it feels like a lost 3DS game. Had it released on the handheld in like 2016, I don’t think it would be getting dogged on as much, even when it has a $60 price tag and is an overall below average experience.
And it wasn’t like they needed Headcannon or Evening Star to develop it. Mania was the perfect blueprint to make a brilliant successor that was more than just Mania with new levels and 4-player co-op. It feels like they knew that people were gonna buy it because of Mania’s success and cranked it out to try and rival Mario Wonder.
Which is funny, because I hear people keep comparing it to Mario Wonder, even though that game wasn't rushed in the slightest.
@@Plexi.TAt least Mario Wonder knew what it wanted to be from start to finish didn’t come off as just “New Super Mario Bros but with a new coat of paint and level shifting gimmick”
The only real praise/defense I’ve seen people make for Superstars is its ambition rather than its execution of those ambitions. Which if that’s all people wanted out of Superstars, a Mania like experience with original levels, then I’m glad they’re expectations were met. However, the comparison between Mania’s execution of its concepts compared to Superstars’ is night and day and I can go back to Mania first before Superstars. Sorry this reply was long btw.
@Butwhythough881 It's OK, I'm completely fine with long responses. I also want to stress that I don't think Superstars is a bad video game, it's just WAY too expensive, and doesn't live up to my (and many other peoples) expectations of what a "3-D" classic Sonic game should look and feel like.
@@Plexi.T I understand that. I don’t think Superstars is terrible either. It falls into the same category as Sonic 4 Episode 2. It’s fine enough for what it does do, but I wouldn’t put it any higher than being a substandard experience for me. If it had the same price tag as Mania and better execution of its ambitions, mainly the new levels and bosses, i’d consider it to be a better experience for me.
Oh for sure Superstars feels like it was meant to be on 3DS, the screen feels so zoomed in and you barely react to enemies while you’re speeding through levels. And this is coming from someone who likes the Advance and Rush games. Wish those games could remade with a 16:9 aspect ratio.
I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Sonic Mania, but I can already see which one will age better.
Sonic Mania is a game that can be enjoyed from beginning to end, while Sonic Superstars can hardly be enjoyed for more than two stages without interruptions.
Yeah, in mania, the stage gimmicks and bosses feel so natural, while super stars feels really forced and intrusive.
The game is just very inconsistent with itself overall
@@Plexi.Tnah, i disagree: superstars levels can flow just as much as other 2d sonic games. Pinball carnivall and frozen base are good examples
@@lupinthenerd439 i disagree. Those interruptions OP is talking about are those god-damned boss fights! I hate them so much!
@@esmooth919 I thought they meant the levels themselves.
the catapillar boss aside, i'd argue that in Mania, even all of the bosses that make you wait to hit the boss easily makes up for it by still making playing the game entertaining during that window of time.
Hydrocity act 1 was fun
So was chemical act 2
Studiopolis act 1 is a prime example of this fr
You also have more control over the pace of boss combat. If you are passive then your fights take longer. Most of SuperStars bosses are effective auto scrollers.
From the perspective of an amateur game designer, I felt like forced nothing periods can work, on the basis that the entire point is to create a feeling of tension from the player through putting them in a kind of “endurance test” in a way, as well as be a test of good timing so that players aren’t just mindlessly cheesing their way through bosses.
That being said, it’s not easy to pull off because of the risk in creating boring stall scenarios, and that is often due to the bosses have repetitive patterns. Games like Super Bomberman R are notorious for this.
The thing about Fang's theme is that, while it doesn't sound "bad" to me, what it _does_ sound like is... confused. Were I to hear it without that context, I would not be able to tell what it's supposed to be for, and the _last_ thing I'd guess is "bounty hunter boss music". Considering my view of what makes music significant in the first place? That's an even _worse_ failure than sounding bad.
what confuses me as a game composer is the length of some of the tracks.
the game scenario has bosses that are actually quite long while the game music for those boss encounters is designed to sound very simple, short and repetitive.. like, i say this with no exaggeration, you can get into a 10 minute fight with fang and his song is a 30 second loop.
i just think that's not.. good. his theme from triple trouble (the *8-BIT* game he originated from) is longer than his theme in superstars. like what the heck?
Now try to compare it to his themes in Triple Trouble 16-Bit and SRB2.
…Yeah, *not even close.*
It is objectively terrible, literally any person that considers themselves an amateur musician could do something better than *that*.
Sound selection is TERRIBLE, arrangement is bad and it's horribly short.
Its bad
This video is called "Game Designer Explains" so I was expecting you to talk more about game design.
Most of it is about aesthetic and concepts. The music commentary is also lacking knowledge about the subject (i.e. what soundchips are)
For me, the title really lead me to except something else. If it had been "my thoughts on superstars" I think I would have more prepared for this kind of video.
Your video is perfectly fine! Just know that a title like that can lead to a certain expectation different from the actual content.
Have good day and keep at it! 🙂
yo its noah copeland
agreed, the video felt like "mania is better" because yes
Hey its the guy who created the best 2D Fangame!
Yeah I agree this video was misleading
Aye, the man himself
Christian Whitehead seemed to want to make more original stages for Mania, but Sega mandated his team bring back classic stages, and that he include the Phantom Ruby to tie into Sonic Forces. So he did his best to put a new spindash on each of those stages and wrote a better story than Forces involving the Phantom Ruby and the origin of the Hard-Boiled Heavies.
Side note: The Hard-Boiled Heavies are some of the most well-thought out and cool designed baddies since Mephiles, Chaos, Metal Sonic and even Shadow.
Infinite, The Generic Deadly Six, and The Amorphous Purple Asteroid from Frontiers got nothing on The Heavy King.
Whitehead did an interesting interview on the Heavies and how their names and personas were manifested by the Phantom Ruby. The animal in Heavy King’s Egg Robo saw itself as a king, hence the name, personality and appearance. Brilliant!
It ain’t that deep.
@@EWOODJ ... but it's not shallow? At least you acknowledge that. Implying that it's not "that deep" implies that it's deep but not in a way where it's not too deep.
*lol* lame
Wow. A bot, with a bot name above. Something worthless to seriously acknowledge.
@@mcihay246 you call it like you see it, and I appreciate that. Way too many bot accounts these days
Personally, Maina has more replay value than Superstars, people like to harp on Mania for not having more original zones (which was because Sega wanted them, not the devs) but those zones are much much better quality-wise than Superstars. That's not to say Superstars itself is a terrible game.
Superstars definetly lacks a proper direction, or rather what it wants to be exactly, wich definetly hurt the game in the long run
I know exactly what it wants to be, a sequel to Mania but in 3D. So you are wrong pal.
@benmalsky9834 its not even a sequel to mania, otherwise it would be called mania 2. U missed the point brother
@@CatWarior22 what is this take
by your logic super mario world isnt a sequel to mario 3, or sonic & knuckles isnt a sequel to sonic 3
@MisterSandmanAU mania is a collection of past levels and new levels with a new look while superstars is a direct sequel to the classics. There completely different concepts
Sonic Mania started as a passion project primarily produced by known members of the Sonic ROM hacking community. Superstars is a corporate product.
Exactly
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I said ina different comment section that Sonic Superstars feels like an upscaled/remaster Wii game and they jumped me. I still stand by my word 💯
People who think Mania is worse because it has less original zones have no idea how quality works 😂
Quality over originality.
I don't think it's a strength or weakness
Or maybe they have a different opinion lol
It’s literally the same as the people who say that 4 is better than mania
They always go on about quantity and never quality
@@alphetti4348 4 has 8 levels
Sonic Mania is still one of my favorite Sonic games, & I still play it to this very day. I wanted to like Superstars,
but the boss fights are the reason why I stopped playing it anymore, and the music quality is all over the place.
I think the greatest irony of Superstars' music is that the Genesis titles don't even have what Johnny VS describes as the console's signature "twang", but it goes out lf it's way to be as twangy as possible.
And i don't think they did a particular good job at emulating that either, the Genesis chip had a grit to it, while Superstars sounds like they just loaded up 'fm synth 3' preset.
@@GarryLarryBarry lmao! Not FM synth 3 preset!
Producers in the house!
What that hack Jun Senoue fails to realise is that back in the 90s, the game composers weren't trying to "sound retro", they were trying to make the absolute best possible tunes for what they had.
I don't have a problem with most of these issues , i just wish if it was cheaper
fair.
I don’t like Superstars because of it’s bosses they take WAY to long to beat and the final bosses of each story are unreasonably difficult having 2-3 phases all taking at least 7 hits to beat before the next phase and it takes so long to hit between attacks they also have instant kill attacks they drag on too long.
Yeah, I can tell that the game devs were thinking longer makes harder, when designing the bosses for this game.
Holy hell, didn’t expect to see you here Shawn! :0
I feel the same. If the bosses were less frustrating it would be a solid 6 out of 10.
The genesis sound isn’t even bad, it’s just that whoever is in charge of using it, doesn’t know how to use it
It's all Jun senoue
The Shocking Thing is that Mania sold around one million copies while superstars sold around 4.3 million copies
That's f*king insane. I'm sad that that's the case lol.
@@Plexi.T I guess that's the power of advertising. I imagine Mania was mostly advertised through the Sonic Twitter account which is somewhat niche, whereas Superstars was advertised more broadly because Mania was successful so I doubt numbers tell the whole story. I wouldn't lose hope though, Paper Mario Sticker Star was a huge downgrade from previous paper mario games, and still sold a ton because fans didn't realize it was a downgrade until after they bought it. But the sequel, Paper Mario Color Splash, sold abysmally because even on the Wii U which was mostly owned by diehard Nintendo fans, they weren't going to fall for the same thing twice. I think way too many people bought Superstars because everyone hyped up Mania, and then some people got frustrated they wasted $60 and are trying to cope hard lol
@@Ganonmustdie2 you're right. Sonic Mania should have collabed with IHOP if it wanted more sales 💀
@@Plexi.T Sonic Superstars collabed with IHOP?!
😶. Look up Bickurbox12, he made a video about it.
The thing with Mania is, even though over half the game is stages from past Sonic games, the way each stage is designed and reimagined puts an emphasis on variety and arguably making these stages even better than their original counterparts, so it doesn’t feel like you are going through “uninspired” rehashed levels.
I haven’t played Superstars yet, but it looks like it suffers from just going through standard level design motions without anything to make them stand out. It’s basically Sonic 4 all over again.
Sonic Superstar brings that sonic 4 vibe to the function nobody asked for.
Tbf ep 2 was way better than ep 1 but it was basically a sequal to ep 1 so people hate it lol
When I said that when Superstars was announced, the fanboys almost eaten me alive. Surprise surprise, it's mediocrity again.
@@Mrdepression9 it was only marginally better at best. The physics still sucked and the level design was forgettable, not to mention its completely unsatisfying ending both on a regular run and a completionist one.
@Ratty524 good point, super sonic is the best part of the game lmao
@@Frustratedartist2Actually, It's Medio *city*
sonic superstar has that sonic 4 kinda vibe
Nah it is not THAT bad
@@Jdudec367 idk it just reminds me of it
@@brownberryking Ok then
The best thing I can say about Superstars is that it's an improved version of Sonic 4. Which ain't sayin much.
Definitely not that bad . At least super stars has classic physics
2:48 That sounds like some beta version of Fang's theme, because it sounds so bland and repetitive as if there's no polish applied to not waste much time on idea and melody which could be boring later on...
Nah that’s an insult to betas cause even those sound 10x more interesting than that
It sounds like a soundtrack from sonic 4.
@@yes.2780 hey the sonic 4 metal sonic fight theme was pretty good
@@astro_9707 yup
I still don't understand why people have problems with press factory, I mean, the background and the platforms have a counter to indicate when the floor will make you jump, you just have to catch the rhythm. I don't mind the instant death in act two because they give you a generous amount of time to push a button
because sonic fans love to bitch
Sonic mania was the first sonic game i played since sonic mega collection so i was excited when i saw another classic game coming but now im just back to mania
i would rather play a sonic game that have zones from older games that are fun from start to finish without any bad one and a soundtrack that is pure gold than a game with original zones but barely one of them is above average and the quality rise and drop from time to time and a soundtrack that i can count how many good tracks there are on one hand.
Mania’s levels - Reuses old levels but still maintains their fun factor and keeps/tweak/expands the original level designs. All while including 4 incredible original zones that are creative and unique.
Superstars levels - Carnival, Factory, Desert, Robot fortress, Jungle, Water Palace. No uniqueness or stylistic flare. All corporate friendly, with one or two exceptions.
In short, sometimes less is more.
@@Butwhythough881 I disagree, the water palace robot fortress, desert, etc have stylistic flare and uniqueness. I don`t see how it`s "corporate friendly".
I mean, I would say EVEN Sonic '06 has a better soundtrack than Superstars. And that game is practically the worst 3D game in this franchise lol
Just happened to come across this video and i have to say, not only do I agree with most of your points but kudos to you for really illustrating your points well.
I think one additional point that I would mention that Superstars really lacked was speed. The player has maybe 2 or 3 short opportunities across all of the levels to reach top speed for at least 5 seconds. While we definitely understand its a platforming game, I feel like Superstars really muddled that sense of speed that Mania and Generations got right.
the level design in both Mania and Generations suit sonic well.
A local theater should do a production of "Waiting for Godot", except this version would be "Waiting for the Opportunity to Attack the Sonic Superstars Boss".
i dont understand how the entire internet suddenly forgot how amazing sonic mania is. the game aint changed since the dlc-- why is everybody acting like mania is mid or smtn? ntm how people were glazing it(deservedly) within the first 2 years of it's release
i played sonic superstars but i quit because of the bosses i would rather play origins or mania cause at least the bosses are better
Yeah, those things go on for like 30 minutes a pop lmao 🤣
I’m guessing the reason the bosses in Superstars have such a long stall time is because of the multiplayer aspect, but I wish they just gave bosses more health instead of longer stalling
Lights,camera,action🗣🔥
sonic superstars failed for stupid reasons honestly its not even because people are tired of classic sonic gameplay
Yeah, I agree. It's not terrible, but it's definitely not worth the $60, lol.
@@Plexi.T def not worth 60 i got it for 49 with dlc
@@waff64I got the premium edition half its price
it's not classic burnout, it's bad game burnout
@@Chillipeffer for me its a classic burnout the game is fine but i have a hard time finding it interesting
Sonic Superstars should have been a successor to Rush Adventure/Colors DS/Generations 3DS
Especially rush adventure.
their a mod someone working on that showed what it would look like if Rush Sonic was in Superstars and I gotta say, it looks far more better than this, like it was made to be one but then they decided to drop Classic into it
@@JadenFox9 Oh thank god
The game looked great in the trailers but I was really disappointed when I played it
Exactly my point lmao. At least make it look as good as Sonic Generations, why is that game still one of the best Sonic game unironically 😅
It had me unconvinced since the trailers honestly
I was not disappointed
I am very easy to please, and it delivered
i was legit sad while playing it tbh
I spent a LOT of time on that Metal Fighter battle in _Superstars_ so I learned plenty of tricks. You can hit the Metal Fighter when it's charging at you.
As for Mania zones, we have 1 from Sonic 1, 2 from Sonic 2 and CD, 3 from Sonic 3&K, (Angel Island doesn't count), and 4 originals. I heard the reason why there are only 4 original zones in Mania is because of SEGA's mandates. So that is another knock against SEGA.
Another knock against Superstars is there is no score. Sure you get some points from smashing the badnicks and from finishing the acts but there is no score in display which makes speedruning and ring hoarding pointless because there is no score. And sure there is no live system either but you could get the coins from every 50K points but it's not here.
I heard that originally Christian Whitehead team was developing their own Sonic project but it was canceled and replaced by the Arzest dev team. A team that hasn't exactly proven to be amazing and with Superstars they have proven that they are not an amazing dev team. This could be a knock towards SEGA but I imagine that Takashi Iizuka had a hand in this. I mean he was part of Sonic Superstars development.
Lastly, Team Evening Star (the Christian Whitehead team) did make Penny's Big Breakaway. Just letting you know.
Honestly, if you asked me which one of the 2 Sonic games would I like to replay after beating, it would be Sonic Mania. Every time I had some ask to play a sonic game and they said sonic superstars, I would be disappointed because I know that I'm going to be bored to tears. To make matters worse, this game came out around the time Super mario wonders, and Spider-man 2 came out.
I haven't Mania played that much but I agree it's I played Superstars and notice it's glaring issues
1. It's Bosses: Mania handled them really them really well quick , easy and simple to understand while superstars it's bosses take really long , have too many patterns , long invinciblity frames especially the ones later on in the game to point where they take long than actual stage itself Classic sonic bosses are supposed to be simple , quick , and easy to understand not have long repetitive patterns Superstars bosses don't fit for a Classic Sonic game
The Music: Mania had an amazing soundtrack some of them are Sonic CD JP Quality especially in the Act 2s such Metallic Madness Act 2 Studiopolis Act 1&2 , Green Hill , Press Garden I could go on and on but you get the idea while Superstars has an inconsistent soundtrack Some of them are really good such as Lagoon City Act 1 , 2 and Act Amy Lagoon City Act 2 is literally a Modern day Sonic CD Stage Some of sound like Baby Toys or Sonic 4 music such as Fang Boss Fight in Sonic and Some speak for themselves such as Press Factory Act 1 overall the Soundtrack is a mixed bag
Gameplay: Mania took everything that made The Classic Sonic games so special and reinvent them in a Modern way it's gimmicks felt natural and part of level itself it's physics are one to one with the other classics but in a smooth 60fps
It's special and bonus stages are really fun every character feels fun to play as while superstars some parts of what made the classics special but also took some unfun elements as well it's gimmicks don't feel natural and part of the level itself but feels forced it's special and bonus stages are alright it's special stages are boring in my opinion not as fun as mania' s but still good smooth physics but not as smooth as mania every character feels fun to play but sonic's drop dashing feels nerfed and knuckles gliding and exploration felt fun in mania since you have to explore for the giant rings and elemental shields while in superstars exploration feels pointless you don't get any elemental shields rather than a basic shield and a magnet shield and it's giant rings you collect one per level in mania you can collect five emeralds in one level while in superstars you collect one per level
Overall Presention: I and many people prefer mania over superstars but that doesn't mean it's bad but superstars is not worth the full price Mania is worth 60$ if you ask me Mania is smooth from being to end while superstars had some rocks on it's way
Side Note 1 : My only grip with Mania is that it reuses old zones from previous Sonic games
Side Note 2 : That comment took very long to type
What do you think of my opinion any points of mine that were over exaggerated or all were facts
@@carolineneh2791I’m pretty sure I agree with basically everything you said. The weirdest part of superstar’s music is that tee lopes made most of the good tracks, and Jun Senoue made all the “bad” tracks (“bad” since some people enjoy some of those songs). I’m just kinda confused on why they didn’t just have Tee Lopes do all the music since they do such a good job. Also, some of the emerald powers are fun to use and work well, but a vast majority of them I just kinda ignored. The stage design kinda felt like it was from sonic cd if that makes any sense, and while that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I was hoping for something better (also I hate golden capital act 2 with a passion). Multiplayer mode is also kinda broken and jank, but I honestly kinda expected that.
My stance is that Superstars just feels exhausting to play, it's not AWFUL, but with the slow bosses and every 2 or so levels being a one act gauntlet it just feels far longer than it actually is. I can blast through over half of Mania easily in one session, but I could barely get through 3 acts of Superstars before calling it a break
Top 10 reason why mania is so much better than superstar:
numero 1: better boss theme.
Thank for watching.
(edit: mania's soundtrack is enough to beat superstars so ye)
👌
Why "numero" in spanish lol
@@tatsukimasu sorry if I get spanish wrong ha ha 😂
Drop dash
@@Mrdepression9 I mean if you only tell ONE single good point from mania those superstars fans will oof in the speed of light ha ha. (i hate how sh*t superstar's bosses is compare to mania).
Unpopular opinion as it seems but I actually REALLY like Superstars soundtrack and I wouldn't not want the retro style music in the game. Even though the Mania music typically has a higher quality and more going on and I respect that and love it, I like a lot of the simpler tunes in Superstars that sound like they were from the Genesis as well.
I actually do agree that Lagoon City act 2 is the best song in Superstars but I disagree that it wouldn't be a standout in Mania, I like it better than many of the songs in Mania.
PlexiTier, I love your channel so much, I just had to subscribe!
completely agree on the superstars bosses. I wanna be to blaze in there as Super Sonic damage rush the boss to death in like 5 seconds then move on. And then on later on they give us fake victories on bosses that already took me several attempts to beat. I just completely lost interest about halfway Trip's run because I kept dying and just wasn't having fun anymore
While I would agree to an extent that Mania is better, there are biases here like which game has better music. That will purely depend on taste. Sonic superstars is also trying out concept, leaning away from the traditional formula (multi branching to support 4 players at once. It does really succeed, but it's seeing what the market wants. If I use the engine from Super Mario World and target the retro market with a new Mario game, it's not likely that I won't hit a home run. So I try something like Super Mario Wonder and, even that game relies on New Super Mario Bros. Sonic, like all games, needs an evolution in the 2D space, so it will be a balancing act. Mania plays it safe, refining a true tested formula, but isn't really a step in a new direction. More of a nostalgia plus experience. Still a good game, but this won't help Sega sell more Sonic in the long run.
Bro basically said " u can have your opinion, but its just wrong" 😂
Awesome video and a great analysis on both games!
5:05 AHHHHH MY EARS OWWWW anyways good video you earned my sub
Fang the Sniper's theme only has an issue that it is trying to mimic ancient ass Gamegear instrumentals. The melody itself is fine.
I see the "Superstars is better than Mania" comment surprisingly regularly, and it's got to be one of the most shit tier takes I've ever seen regarding Sonic. The kind of thing that makes me want to keep my distance from this fanbase.
ok bye
Just play the games. No need to watch videos like these.
4:09 Love how they put a wanted poster for fang in the background, maybe that’s where superstars got it’s revive fang thing cuz I’m sure they forgot about triple trouble
3:48 looks game journalist gameplay
Brotha needs to charge the spin dash
Ionk care I like superstars 🤷♂️ my main problem with it is the speed but once you get super that’s no longer a problem 🤷♂️
People have played in those same classic zones, with the same gimmicks, and heard the same songs for 20 years now (though mania has some fire remixes). Having new zones, new songs, no lives, 3D visuals, not annoying special stages/ ring locations, having gold enemies to find, and being able to swap characters between acts goes a long way for some people (I’m people).
I also can’t understand why people hate press factory so much. Just jump, I thought it was really fun playing around it. and momentum jumps with the bounces are fun. Only stages I really would say are wack is the final stage, though I don’t like pretty much any final stage in classic games, and golden capital act 2. Lava reef, oil ocean, metallic madness, Titan monarch , and press garden act 1 can all kick rocks.
Almost all bosses from both games can kick rocks. metal sonic, mean bean, hydrocity, and the green guy can stay from mania. the water bosses, the piggy bank, and press factory 2 can stay from superstars. Everyone else is just straight annoying.
"New means good". The reason why people have played those same things for 20 to 30 years IS because they want to play it again and a Mania is plenty of a remix.
"old bad, new good!"
I think Studiopolis Act 2 blows Act 1 out of the water, but both are quality tracks. I also preferred Press Garden Act 1 to Act 2. I think it goes to show how varied the tracks were, and how much each one aimed at particular tastes in music.
I really hate how desperately people want to compare games they like. You don't need to justify why you like something, it doesn't have to be quantifiably better. I like Superstars a lot, I like how it handles multiple playable characters and the chaos emerald powers, but its still rough in a lot of areas and is fairly buggy. There's nothing wrong with liking it anyways
Respectable. Like, MASSIVE RESPECT 👍
talking about classic sonic music I just love from Generations Crisis City Act 1, where the crunched guitar kinda slaps
You DO know that the classic forces tracks use a real SEGA Genesis right?????
Damn!!!
They must've used the limited edition KFC deep fried SEGA Genesis, with the authentic smell of oil and cholesterol
The most musically ignorant Sonic fan of them all, we all know the YM2612.
And some of it was composed by one of CD's composers.
@@Cretaceous158 Damn!!!!!
Their motivation must've been as strong as the music's sound quality
@@The_Catz_Lord they are decent compositions, although the arrangement sucks, other than Chemical Flow.
I think I’m the only human who likes sonic superstars. I put it right behind sonic mania ngl
There was only one real reason to play Sonic Superstars and that's Amy Rose. the one thing that Mania abandoned.
I think the biggest problem sonic fans have is that they always compare one game to another game and then instantly when the masses agree with that comparison everyone else just hates it. Superstars is not a bad game. It has its problem sure, but when you compare it to how much we enjoyed mania then that’s where the distain comes in. Just enjoy what you have while you have it you paid money for it.
when i was playing it i never compared it to mania, and it still felt bad and i didnt have much fun
You calling yourself a "game designer" Doesn't justify the bias in this video. You don't explain ANYTHING from a technical standpoint, and your comparison between Generations and Superstars is wrong, since Generations pulls heavily from past games, including 3D ones, whereas Arzest pulls from past idea that Naoto Ohshima had on him that never made it into Sonic games. The two can't be compared at all. Naoto was looking to create and authentic 2D experience with 3D graphics, not a 2.5D gameplay experience in general. Superstars looks good on everything outside of the Switch and gets the job done. Sonic controls far better in Superstars than he does in both, Generations and Mania. (Mania has a problem with making Sonic run backwards while hitting springs at times.) Sure Mania's more polished, but that doesn't make Superstars a failure when it's ONLY major flaw are the bosses.
You summed it up well, but I would add one thing: All three games are amazing
FACTS!!!
@@Hyp3rSonic OPINIONS!!!
@@benmalsky9834huh?
@@benmalsky9834I was agreeing with what they said. About the whole "game designer" thing? I'm confused
Man, the music reminds me so much of the Sonic 4 episode 1's music! My ears!
_L-Leave me alone!_ *Ring *
I hope they can manage to try to do original music with those instruments like they did in Episode 2 instead of "trying to sound nostalgic"
I don't think Superstars is evn half as bad as this essay try to depict it. Mania is the better game yes, but Superstars is enjoyable at least
For many ppl, $60 is A LOT
Thank you. I HATE it when people call it a bad game, it’s not at all.
@@KirikkSiSq true but still
@@benmalsky9834Well it's not a bad game but we gotta agree, the bosses are garbage.
@@jeremiahgreen5632 It would be better if the bosses were shorter.
Sonic mania is the first and only sonic game ive played so far and i absolutly loved it from the moment i picked it up
With all due respect, your coverage of this game's music is full of misinformation.
This part of the video is just absolutely abysmal, and I'll be making a timestamp breakdown as to why.
1:47
You start by stating that musical tastes are pretty subjective, which is true. You immediately follow up by saying that Sonic Mania's music is simply better, with next to no elaboration as to why. You've already contradicted yourself in the first sentence.
2:02
You then proceed to cherrypick the music, using Tee Lopes' most popular song, followed by Jun Senoue's least popular song, and nothing else. Completely skipping over any Jun Senoue compositions that are well-liked (Sky Temple, Cyber Station, Press Factory Act 2, Battle Mode Menu, etc. etc.)
Not to mention *18 other people* worked on the soundtrack besides those two. And they get zero mention here.
4:42
Here's where it stops being opinionated rambling, and becomes blatant misinformation. You claim that Sonic Forces' classic music was "ruined" by Sonic Team "mimic"ing the synth from the Genesis era. This is simply false. Sonic Forces used REAL GENESIS RECORDINGS for classic Sonic. Tomoya Ohtani has stated this himself. Him and Hataya made the songs using real hardware and custom patches. There's not much else to say, you're just wrong here.
5:29
"Sonic Mania has a vastly more faithful retro art aesthetic"
No it doesn't. Genesis games did not look like Sonic Mania, with it's sharp pixels and complete lack of composite video effects. But that's off-topic.
5:50
"HD soundchip"
HD. Soundchip.
What is that? Seriously, what is that??? That is not a thing that exists. Do you actually think video game consoles still use soundchips???
6:18
Lastly, this is yet another case of misinformation. "Sonic Generations doesn't do the synthesizer thing"
Are you saying Generations didn't use synths? Practically the entire soundtrack was made using synthesizers. Not only that, but Korg Triton, *THE SAME EXACT SYNTH SONIC 4 EPISODE I USED* is also in the game, and is present in several songs.
Listen, I get that you're not very musically inclined, I'm not that much either. But... don't say stuff like this then.
If you're gonna call yourself a "game developer", you should at least know that "HD soundchip" is a rather silly phrase.
LOL yeah, failure in video format.
All they had to do was make it online co-op and it would’ve had my 10/10
Sonic 4 episode 2 already achieved this ages ago and it remains a guilty pleasure of mine to this day
I am in the wrong for enjoying both? Like... by equal? 😞
No, you are allowed to enjoy both.
@@ahmedhasan4966Thank you!
Are we gonna ignore the fact that it came out the same day Mario Wonder did? It was kinda obvious the game wasn’t gonna do so great
Sonic and the Fallen Star is both original and fun to play.
PLEASE PLAY FALLEN STAR, it’s great! ❤
This fandom is great keep doing this is why your best fandom
am i the only one who doesn't have any issues whatsoever aside from price? the songs sound good (on classic sonic overall, forces included) aside from like, 1 or 2 that are avarage, the levels and bosses are pretty fun from what i remember
my only issue is price
that goes for most, if not all mainline sonic games
also that super mario example can be used for literally 99% of the games in media, just replacing mario with something else💀 like seriously how petty do you need to be to use that example unironically
I got a glitch in Sonic Mania chemical Plant were if you hit a Robotnik Box and then go in a pipe you'd be blasted into the air.
I haven't watched you in awhile, your voice got deep lmao
uh, thanks lol 😅
Before I start this video, all I'm gonna say is, I saw a ton of promotion for Mania before its release. I didn't even see a TH-cam ad for Superstars until 2 weeks after. :/
Conclusion : sonic mania looks like a pice of art, meanwhile sonic superstars looks like a cheap platform game that you probably you would found as that platformer game that came free with a ps5.
Well said 👏
I think we have to settle on either 'htting it out the park' or 'blowing it out the water', though I admire your mixing of the two:)
My opinion before actually watching the video:
If you want an original game, play Superstars. If you want a good game, play Mania.
If you want a good game, play both. Both are equally amazing.
hey, whats the music that plays in the outro? 19:14
the special stage theme for Sonic Superstars
@@Plexi.T ty
I like superstars better
It's simple, really. Superstars isn't fun, Mania is.
They are BOTh fun, BOTH great games.
If Superstars gets the Plus treatment and some more content, I'll be more than happy to give it another shot!
Your deconstruction of the "level design" felt a bit too shallow for a video whose title starts with "Game Designer Explains:". I feel like there is much, much more than just stage gimmicks when it comes to sonic level design. The fact that you didn't even mention the structuring and principles that have consistently appeared in 2D sonic level design way past the genesis games, and how they differ between mania and superstars gives the impression that you don't really have the best understanding of what makes a "sonic" level tick; the flow between speed and platforming, multi-tiered intertwining level design, passivity traps, interesting use of terrain curvature, rewarding use of physics based movement, these are things that are all present in both of these games, yet differ in very subtle ways that do end up setting them apart from each other. These are all very nuanced elements that feed into the fundamental idea of rewarding active and skillful play with speed and ultimately define what a 2D sonic game is. I suggest you go look these things up because i think there is a very interesting discussion to be had with how mania and superstars' levels *truly* differ from one another. Basically what I'm telling you is that you should watch all of Pariah695's early "Sonic was Always Good" videos because I've been pretty much parroting a bunch of things he's taught me about sonic LOL please watch his videos they are incredibly comprehensive
Yeah, I know I could have been a lot more detailed and specific with my analysis. I didn't want the video to be longer than what it already is, so I decided to sort of simplify the details. I plan on making a much more deep, and detailed level design video that I want to be at least 1 hour long, and that'll be on the Final Level of every Sonic game. Hopefully I'm able to do better with my analysis in that video.
So... What game did you design?
Mania is only held up in high regard by classic purists that are stuck in the past, which based on Mania's actual sales are a vocal minority. Mania itself just feels like nostalgia bait, especially when half the game is just the same unoriginal levels. It's a game catered to the journalists and oldheads.
At least Superstars tries to be its own thing in most regards. The real problem with that game is the price tag. Even with Superstars being way overpriced it still managed to sell way more than Mania ever did and at a much faster pace.
Fang has his Triple Trouble theme integrated into the new track.
triple trouble 16 bit did a better job
I disagree. Though music taste is subjective, I prefer the level design in Superstars over Mania's. Mania's level design overly relies on slopes and loops to carry Sonic through. I swear about 50% of Mania's gameplay is simply "press down and watch Sonic go". It makes the game feel very automated. The more I replayed Mania it got old for me. I haven't played this game in years, and even still I only have 6 playthroughs on this game. Also, I'm not a fan of all of the fanservice in that game. The Puyo Puyo boss in particular feels like a pace-breaker.
Superstars meanwhile has a greater focus on raw platforming. There's still a healthy amount of rolling and physics, but I'd say it's really only about 20% of the game. As a result, I feel a lot more involved in the gameplay, which makes it more satisfying for me. I also love the emerald powers, which offer new ways to engage with the levels. Admitedly, the idea of messing with the camera to give 2D levels a 3D feel WAS a good idea in Generations that I wish Superstars used as well. But when it boils down to actually playing the game, the changing camera doesn't really affect the platforming in any meaningful way. At the end of the day, it's still just 2D Sonic gameplay. I feel like I simply care a lot more about raw gameplay than about visuals and presentation, hence why I prefer Superstars's level design. I want platforming and multiple pathways, which I think Superstars delivers on with spades.
Superstars feels a lot more like an actual platformer compared to Mania, which only wants to brag about how it was able to replicate classic physics.
The boss fights are definately a point for fair criticism, but TBH, once I started using the emerald powers on them, they became much easier to handle. If you use these correctly, you don't have to wait for long to get an opening on the bosses, making them faster and more acceptable. They don't bother me so much now. I actually enjoy a healthy amount of them because I feel like they have some interesting gimmicks. The only few I flat out hate are the Sand Sanctuary boss, the auto-scroller with Fang in Golden Capital and the purple dragon.
Last thing. What the hell was that point about Press Factory having annoying gimmicks? That's literally my favorite zone in Superstars. If the press machine bothers you, just jump when you hear the sound que of the machine so it won't send you upwards. It's just a skill issue you have.
So yes, I DO prefer Superstars over Mania, but I feel like it's the result of different preferences in game design. Just because you're a game designer, doesn't mean your preferred approach to game design is objectively the right one.
I never said I was objectively right because I'm a game designer lol. I was just explaining why most people dislike Superstars, and why the comparisons to Mania are a little justified considering the game is Triple Mania's price.
@@Plexi.T I'll give you that. While I do prefer Superstars over Mania, I don't think the game is worth 60$. Frontiers was sold at the same price and that game has about 5 times as much content as Superstars. I'd say Superstars is worth 40$ at best. However, nowadays, you can find it at a fairer price on Steam or what-have-you.
@@roiitzkovich4545 *lol* 5x more crap, maybe
@@TheSultan1470 disagree
@@TheSultan1470 Frontiers clears Superstars, please stop being stupid.
Well uhh Superstars is the game where i hardlocked myself i literally cannot beat a stage due to the quality of the PC port and i cannot do a thing about it. Never happened in mania.
I am bad at this.
It's still sad that fans made a better game than the studio headed by THE MAN THAT CREATED SONIC IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Wrongo. BOTH games are good. Superstars IS a good game!
They are both equally great.
@@benmalsky9834 I never claimed Superstars was bad... I simply think mania is still the overall better game
Yes! Someone is finally bringing this up!!! Thank you!!!
Everyone is tired of the sonic games trying to make genesis like and sega keeps pulling this bs.
To be fair, Sonic Frontier went in a whole new direction, but I get your point.
@@Plexi.T Sorry, maybe i should have wrote 2D Sonic games on that.
Tbh, frontiers aside from boss fights kind of was a little boring.
This would have been such a good video of you hadn't eluded to being a game designer at every opportunity. You can say it once, and we'll get it
Mania is the better game, but we can at least respect superstars for the new things they tried to do.
It’s the first of its kind, mechanics will probably be refined in the future
Sonic 4:
What kind of games do you make?
sonic colors and sonic superstars fighting over the "legitimately good game that sonic fans will actually try to convince you is bad" award
superstars was never good, beating it felt like a chore
Agree
@@pokade3659respectfully disagree
@@Hyp3rSonic i respect your opinion, have a good day/night
Both these games are trash tier
Where the fuck is the follow up to sonic mania? We need another 2d 16 bit sonic game its been 6 years.
I prefer Superstars to Mania for the simple fact that it is a "modern" game. It brought many improvements that make the experience more "playable", like the respawning Chaos Emeralds, being able to replay stages before finishing the game, actual multiplayer and much more. The lack of those things made sense in the 90s (without saves) but now are just annoying limitations.
But still, I love both games and totally see why people prefer Mania to Superstars, but calling it a "Bad Game" is just the usual blind hate that the Sonic Community has always had.
Here’s what I think the simplest way to wrap up the differences is:
Sonic Mania was made by fans of an original formula for Sonic gameplay and seeked to perfect what was already really good, whereas Sonic Superstars was intended to make a brand new formula that’s highly experimental compared to what they knew worked already, so they weren’t able to compare it to what everyone knew worked from before because nothing quite like it CAME before.
Don’t fix what ain’t broken, just give it a new coat of paint and some polish. Even some older 3D sonic game mechanics would be great to have back if they were reimplemented well, had good level design, and weren’t in a sort of mediocre game.
The sonic fandom is stupid :)
🤨
As a sonic fan, I can agree
5:04 honestly, the only "classic" song i feel like they slapped at doing was iron fortress, that was pretty fucking good ngl. me and my friends like that one
i liked the game but i know ill just be harassed and told im wrong, which is a shame that its come to that in this day and age
i liked most of the main story, bosses aside, its just trips story i hated
but i find myself enjoying all of the regular versions of the main stages
obviously i dont prefer it over mania, but i still had fun
again though, ill be called stupid or something
It's completely ok to like the game lol. Like I said, it's not bad, just I think Mania is better.
Just started Sonic Superstars and reached Zone 8. This game's flow and level design is weird. Really thought they would never mess up a side scrolling sonic game after Sonic Mania's success. Some Zones only have 1 act and the special stages are zero fun. Game movement feels weird and not a single boss is fun since you have wait to hit them. The emerald powers are a super cool concept, but some are very situational. Would have been better to have new shield monitor powers like S3&K ones. The best use of the powers is to bypass hit windows against bosses with clone power and red fire ball power. At least we have 4 playable characters.
Superstars is great game. Stop yapping bullshit. 💀
Oh, nah, bro, woke up today and chose to defend the worst takes 😂
Yes it's great, it just did somethings worst than Mania, it's incredible how Sonic fans still don't know what a "Bad Game" is
@@elimBaz Seeing how they constantly defend Sonic 2006 and Black Knight, they DEFINITELY don't know what a "bad game" is.
@@Plexi.T I dunno, man
People say Colors is worse then 06, so I'd say there's some competition