WHAT??? Thank you Anon, now I will not bother watching that stupid video. What a stupid guy this "BKC" is, how could your argument about a shitty tier like DPP OU boil down to "jus git gud bruv"? Embarassing, truly one of the embarassments of all time.
I started with dpp ou after mence was banned. It was a super magical time and then platinum and hgss were added. Things changed and I adapted. No other gen captures the love I had, probably because gen 5 had powercreep and so on.Loved the spirites and shoddy battle. Eventually moved on to Pokemon Online and then Smogon ladder itself. Good times, very sentimental, and I always think about it when playing the next new gen pokemon game and miss it!
I used to enjoy DPP OU a number of years ago at this time. I am one of a number of players who has stopped enjoying and playing the tier. I found that for most of my time, Jirachi and Tyranitar were some of the worst Pokemon to play against in the tier, and then they added Latias and then it meant most teams had one or more Pokemon that made me not enjoy playing games at all. Anyone who blames stuff on Lucario or Gyarados confuses me. I don't think we would have seen such a decline in DPP playerbase if the tier was as good as it used to be.
I only play post-preview gens so these vids are a cool insight into the older gens that I don't touch for the lack of knowledge surrounding them. BW, XY, SM and especially SS are all more centered around your skill in positioning and scouting your opponent's team vs something like DPP or SV where both are very important but fundamentally understanding teambuilding, team structures and tera types respectively, is so important to being successful in the tier. I feel like the tyrants success in SV this season really highlights that with how CTC built the teams all season and how dominant he was before getting banned. I think the issue is, like you said, the bar to enter ends up being way higher than other similar generations so people who are generally good at pokemon try to pick it up and do well but the lack of easily accessible information is the issue. With the team preview gens sans SV, what you said rings true, RBY and GSC is a lot more simple in teambuilding, ADV has had a huge resurgence in playerbase and interest thanks to Jimothy Cool and SV being current gen, DPP is uniquely inaccesible by being a pre-preview gen with the complexities of a post-preview gens while lacking a notable playerbase.
Gen 4 OU specifically has numerous bad traits like Iron head Jirachi, strong sleep users, and strong impact of paralysis. In gen 3 the sleep users are much worse and paralysis isn't as common. Also rock resists are a must in ADV and your first line of defense against ddtar/aero but in gen 4 you often need to check gyarados with non-water resists so flinches are more decisive. I like Gen 4 mechanics and it results in very good alt metagames (UU particularly) but I much prefer Gen 3's OU.
I feel like adv skarmory doesnt bullshit its way through games in nearly the same way as the flinch/para/confuse spam stuff does. I've never lost to a skarm and felt like it was unfair but ive definitely been immobilized by jirachi for like 7 turns straight and forfeited.
Im sure the best players still win, its not an uncompetitive metagame. I just personally dont find it fun to have the best mons in the meta fishing for hax literally every single game, to the point where its a defining characteristic of the tier
@@pokegarchomp Is it ignorant to call Irom Head Jirachi "fishing for hax" when the odds are in it's favor? 60% flinch rates are frustrating as is, along with Body Slam Paralysis as well bolstering the odds that much more. I won't say the metagame's uncompetitive, that's a lie. But it feels weird that the best mon in the tier can cheese through so many wins that you sometimes don't have as much control over
Like which ones? All the ones I see in the video are quite good. I will say that I think Platinum sprites are better than HGSS ones though (Scizor, Jolteon...), and unfortunately PokemonShowdown uses HGSS, not Platinum.
Funny how I decided to start DPP OU two days ago to freshen things up. It’s a great mix of “oh god what do I do against ___” followed by “thank god I have ___”. It’s pretty fun and for once I like Blissey.
I wish Jirachi was banned but whatever. The only other issue i have is the prevalence and necessity of stealth rock makes many pokemon almost outright unusable, which just isn't fun, so if we could magic boots into the game then it would be far and away my favourite metagame. Gen 4 is my favourite gen in general
Which mons would be OU viable without rocks? There aren't actually that many rock weak mons in OU, and the ones that are there would be busted without the passive damage from rocks (Gyarados, Zapdos, Togekiss). I mean I guess Moltres and Yanmega would be cool in OU, but many would argue that rocks are a necessity for metagame health.
@@schroederluck7984 Ot's not about 'this mon would be OU if not for rocks' and more about 'i'd love to try this mon for fun but literally can't'. Talking less about balance at the highest level of play and more about fun and creativity
i'm pretty new to dpp competitively but i never understood why people called it madhouse, i didn't feel like i was losing vs people playing badly more regularly than others tiers, and most of my tournament losses i felt my opponent played better than i did
I started with gen 6 back in 2015, became a dpp fan later but recently I’ve really grown to appreciate adv, I always slept on pre-gen 4 because no physical special split but it’s actually kinda cool to work with
my favorite thing about dpp is theres way less switching than in team preview gens. hidden teams encourages you not to reveal your other pokemon until you have to. also its just way cooler and is how pokemon is meant to be played imo. breloom is absolute cancer though
Actually working on my own personal DPPt OU format, adding new Pokémon into the tier and seeing if they are healthy. As of right now, I've added Great Tusk (without Booster). He's a kill or be killed Pokémon, great for HO, and yet he has some utility with Knock Off, Spin and Stealth Rocks. The catch, is they will only be allowed access to Gen4 moves unless they have a signature move. So Tusk runs things like Adamant @Scarf../Leftovers Head Smash Earthquake Megahorn Ice Fang/Close Combat../Bulk Up
really funny to see this video as someone who doesn’t watch/pay attention to many competitive players besides you, since i just about only know dpp as a great meta
my thoughts on dpp ou is that im glad it exists but im equally glad that i don't have to play it lol. at this point the power level was getting high enough that it had stopped feeling completely reasonable to defend against the terrifying unknown sweepers in the back, but it was still just about doable so for the players that can handle it it's a very unique experience that sets itself apart nicely from the other old gens. gens 1 and 5 just do their own thing, then gen 2 is about being methodical, gen 3 is balance simulator, and gen 4 is ruthlessly aggressive, between 2 and 4 there's a good experience for everyone it's just personal preference. and just to be clear, when i said that it's not completely reasonable to answer the threat in the back, i wasn't saying that's a bad thing about the tier or that it's all just matchup, the point was that dpp sets itself apart by forcing you to really think about it. the entire premise of complaining about a fundamental aspect of an old tier is just insane to me, like are you trying to convince people to stop playing a tier they enjoy? or are you worried that gamefreak will go back to no preview in gen 10? just play the tiers you enjoy
2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
It used to be my favorite gen, but ADV has aged way better. The game you showed featured two teams built around abusing and protecting itself from para spam and the game still ultimately came down to an untimely full para and that about sums up the state of DPP OU for the past few years. Bringing back Latias was a mistake because now no one wants to do anything about the two biggest elephants in the room, Jirachi and Clef.
Just ban Iron Head and it'll be good. ...Okay, I can't just leave it at that one-liner. Iron Head's pretty anomalous as far as meta-breaking things go: it's absolute horseshit on Jirachi and specifically Jirachi, but literally nothing else in the tier even runs it. Some might complain that banning Iron Head from only Jirachi is way too specific as a complex ban, but it doesn't even have to be a complex ban. Just ban Iron Head itself from DPP OU, and boom, you've massively improved the tier with basically no collateral damage. (Some have also obviously proposed just banning Jirachi outright, but I feel like that would have drastic consequences on the tier, especially with Latias running around.)
This should be the approach. Iron Head isn't really used on anything else so this ban would mostly target Jirachi. Plus players trying to emulate Iron Head + Para Jirachi with Zen Headbutt are going to get walled by Darks and Pyschics like Tyranitar, Umbreon, and to a lesser extent Latias. Being forced to U-Turn out for any damage, taking up a moveslot that could be used for hazards, Protect, or Wish, constraining the set just to use a STAB move with iffy coverage against alot of OU. Magnezone would also resist this flinch move, still making it a viable flinch absorber and potential Jirachi trapper if it can get past the obligatory Fire Punches. Edit: spelling
@@Elijah-hz9ls You would have to ban all flinch moves on Jirachi, including Zen Headbutt. Possibly all flinch moves on Pokemon with Serene Grace as an ability, which would impact Togekiss (Air Slash, Headbutt, Zen Headbutt) and Dunsparce (Headbutt, Zen Headbutt) to make this full proof, something I'd be fine with. That's honestly the most practical and obvious solution. But unfortunately, the decision makers behind all of this are operating under the understanding that "complex bans" like the one I'm suggesting are inherently unhealthy for the overall metagame. Not sure what's so "complex" about it though, read the forums when you get the chance, these people talk like lawyers and forget its a niche competive Pokémon community that's almost 20 years old. It's really ridiculous sometimes and shouldn't be as serious as it is. Banning Iron Head outright is the best compromise. If the trade off for making something as spammed like Jirachi less polarizing, oppressive, and while giving it a higher skill ceiling (ParaFlinch Jirachi would fall out of favor, Lead Stealth Rock Jirachi, Wish + Protect Jirachi, and Calm Mind Super-Rachi would rise up in usage. You would see more variety with Jirachi instead of weirdos trying to Iron Head your Magnezone to death because that's the meta) is that stuff like Registeel or Scizor are deprived of a STAB option, then I could live with that. It's really dumb that we'd be forced into this approach by really stupid tiering policy, and unproblematic members of the meta like steel types that enjoy access to Iron Head would be impacted , but it is what it is.
I played gen 2 when I was a teenager but you couldn't call that "competitive" so, gen 4 OU was actually the first gen played competitively. Loved it. Not having bullshit gimmicks was awesome, I miss when Pokemon was like that.
You use a semicolon when the sentence in front is like a synonym or the same as the second sentence. Its the middle of a point and a comma. When the sentences are too connected to seperate them with a point but not connected enough to connect them with a comma. Thats how my teacher explained it to me and what i remember.
Really random but can we PLEASE ban Dynamic Punch. I know you aren't in control of this but this is really my only big issue with the tier and it's been bothering me for quite some time
the thing that i dont really get about dpp is teambuilding. conventions around what constitutes acceptable counterplay to a lot of waters in particular (starmie, offcune, kingdra, etc) are sorta hard to wrap my head around coming from adv and preview gens, as well as the lead metagame (seems to matter way more than adv)
We love Gen4 OU because it is more tactical and strategic. I havent played it in a while but for about a year I played it a lot and actually enjoyed it. You are right BKC you do have to youse your brains. Now I mostly just do randbats with a nice joint when Im relaxing. 😊 EDIT: Custap berry Machamp brings a shit eating grin to my face 😅
Now, I'm by no means a dppt EXPERT but i am someone who's loved the tier and played for years and years now and i can give the decently educated take of "yeah that's pretty much it", with a few more things. Weavile eats all hazards about as well as lax takes a dynamicpunch (being, it can't) and outright folds to skarmory, scizor, and can't do a whole lot to bronzong or rachi either. It's vulnerable to getting chipped down by omnipresent sand, and the one niche it DOES have has gotten significantly worse as the years have gone by, since 2 of the main targets are now banned in today's meta (priority revengekilling dragons)
I thought this guy was supposed to be knowledgeable, but I finished the video and nothing he has said truly means anything. It’s just packed with buzzwords to obfuscate its lack of substance. BKC actually perfectly describes my problem with this video himself at around 5:45, “a lot of what passes for competitive pokemon discourse involves uninformed players very confidently making aggressive assertions that are also very incorrect.”
I believe the constant praise he receives has made him self-indulgent and lackadaisical when it comes to getting to a point. He seems less concerned with- and unwilling to actually make proclamations, and more with just scattering tidbits that he's got on his mind which he doesn't feel like attempting to cohere into an actual argument. Nothing wrong with speaking off the cuff, but meandering only to lead up to partway of the purported destination is deflating for someone expectant like you and I. Perhaps simply this is just a commentary channel, effectively. Best to temper the expectations from hereon.
I don't know if i totally agree with what you said, but I also felt a lack of substance in the video. It felt more of a critique of the people having the "DPP is bad" opinion rather than a critique of the opinion itself, which lead to the most of the discourse being "play more DPP, don't expect to be good by just coming into the tier and getting team passed, play better". Coming from someone who has no opinion on DPP ftr.
2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1
@@yourdagan Your comment is how BKC thinks he sounds like when he talks.
This video should have been titled "Why some tournament players criticize DPP OU". I'm not a fan of the tier myself, but my gripes weren't echoed by the views being rebutted nor the little bit of "Why it's actually a good tier" tacked on at the end. I just don't feel like the statement was followed through on.
I think we should be able to “manipulate” power creep. Smogon or not. The modern remakes have already done this. Legends, bdsp, let’s go even. All arbitrarily shuffling the deck. In a more influential way than the mons built to flip the board: weather, tapus and rilla, magic bounce. Trappers. Trapping itself is influenced by game mechanics. It’s not even a correct slop of balanced. Rby, wrap, gsc trash, adv, oh yaaa, dpp then on, it’s a problem. And then by what gen 6 ghosts are ghost immune and we haven’t even had the chance to use terra to evade trapping, terra ghosting. We can terra dark to avoid pursuit. Like a Hoopa U lived a mega scept suit. Despite a -1, due to terra dark. Yet the game is not advanced enough to spend the gimmick, just to switch. Because Pokémon does not realize the power in its hands, and the limits of how bitchmade players can be. “Strongest game freak money hungry CEO vs weakest stall enjoyer” this is how you get 1 step closer to creating a better game, why vgc should be 6v6. The mons are already getting too much for singles itself. Dpp marks trapping being crazy, as well as a handful of mons outlawed from standard play. Ok how did these games wrench the old gens w/ the new gen sauce. Let’s go: easily did it correctly. Brought back alolans, megas, correct ish movesets. Ya no items no hazards. But no hyper beam or speed crits. That’s like a 8/10 job for mixing RBY correctly BDSP! My god. They sent rain back in time by 1 gen. And did the reverse scar vio. And somehow did that backwards. -alongside rain, mons gained the fairy typing, ya same for LgPE, poison heal, magic guard Zam! The demon of BW. Yet soul dew does not go back to being the lati Uber pass, no perma sand, no pursuit, ttar as well as the rest of the mons are too crippled. Yet scald and knock are not going back to not existing or going back to being haryiama’s thing And no levitate gengar. Can’t regain an ability you lost. Nor megas or alolan. Zapdos becomes uu again, cuz his movepool is dawg shit. The chomp treatment. Now if galarian zapdos was brought back, he’d be cooking w/ the same moves. Every dpp OU ban would explode into an AG Mon, alongside dpp farceus. Garchomp: he’s stuck to Sandveil again (articuno lost pressure but he didn’t lose Rocky helmet HMMMM 🗿) he was deadass supposed to have “sandveil mega Garchomp” in a game foreign to Kyurem black level fire power barring Deoxys and titans. Anywhere but Ubers He’d also gain perma sand, something sand force mega chomp never had again, kings rock, loaded dice, for old chomp. Mence: gains moxie, a mega. Oh I guess mega ray also gets revived nvm still a trash Uber mega hehehaha. Oh the next bit is mainly just “gimmick mashing” At least the prior related to ruleset change. “Mega gengar, he had 1 gen to abuse levitate. But Yk what he gained after the gen he lost it? A gmax” Slowbro, he’s got more alternate forms than charizard. “Mega galarian slowking” And then shoving modern mons and gens entirely into older gens. Doing that and reverse just sounds too much to theory. -How many new OU titans can u throw at GSC snorlax. While said mons endure “reverse power creep technique” snorlax is literally the gojo of Pokémon. Gsc snorlax vs rby Tauros, mewtwo, Ttar, skarm lose weather, spikes, gain a mega. Oh Tauros would have 3 other Tauros to have fun hyper beaming. If let’s go happened later. Or even rby mewtwo is a good match up. This was literally once “the strongest Mon in history vs the strongest Mon of today” until snorlax somehow crashed out from sleeping so hard.
okay it's completely valid to hate DPP OU in your words the hisuan samurott is hated by the people who play the teir and I think it got banned but I remember off the top of my head.
no preview is simply a very high burden of entry for people that play DPP on occasion but not all the time. and the percentage of these players is going up.
It feels like only now people are bothering to try to see the value of Hail in metas with permanent weather, and that value is unfortunately the fact that it is not a better weather up. But in gens where you do have great weather synergy (which is Gens 4-5), and Abomasnow is decent enough until you get Alolan Ninetales in general, Hail is fine but just merely very challenging and a paradigm shift.
I played competitive 6 only, but for what it's worth, I thought having team preview has been more a bane than a boon. Kinda like a "genie's out the bottle" type of situation.
I hope the lack of semicolon preview in the title leaves someone irrationally blaming DPP OU
lmfao
I see BKC is dipping his toes into TH-cam shorts
I tried to complain about the semicolon just now but I flinched and couldn’t move
Sucks you didn't nail that 40%. Just a bad matchup.
Unfortunate does not begin to describe
The semicolon usage is great. Perfect use of a good symbol
Sounds like a skill issue
I think dpp OU is good because I remember my good friend Ryan gosling telling me how much he loved dpp OU
That was literally me. You’re welcome.
ADHD version: BKC diagnoses DPP haters with "skill issue."
WHAT??? Thank you Anon, now I will not bother watching that stupid video.
What a stupid guy this "BKC" is, how could your argument about a shitty tier like DPP OU boil down to "jus git gud bruv"? Embarassing, truly one of the embarassments of all time.
It says alot about the state of this ADHD generation that BKC released a 25 minute video
I started with dpp ou after mence was banned. It was a super magical time and then platinum and hgss were added. Things changed and I adapted. No other gen captures the love I had, probably because gen 5 had powercreep and so on.Loved the spirites and shoddy battle. Eventually moved on to Pokemon Online and then Smogon ladder itself. Good times, very sentimental, and I always think about it when playing the next new gen pokemon game and miss it!
Well said sleeve I feel the same.
Edit: I started right after Garchomp got banned
You seem to be a bit confused because Mence was banned after Platinum and HGSS were already added. Are you thinking of Garchomp?
I used to enjoy DPP OU a number of years ago at this time. I am one of a number of players who has stopped enjoying and playing the tier. I found that for most of my time, Jirachi and Tyranitar were some of the worst Pokemon to play against in the tier, and then they added Latias and then it meant most teams had one or more Pokemon that made me not enjoy playing games at all. Anyone who blames stuff on Lucario or Gyarados confuses me.
I don't think we would have seen such a decline in DPP playerbase if the tier was as good as it used to be.
I can agree with most of this, but i think it's dumb that smogon bans evasion strats but allows a 60% of iron head flinching.
DPP OU is great because without it we wouldn't have DPP UU.
It made the best ubers gen too. Is there anything dpp ou can't do?
When the meta shift to Clefable everywhere and Jirachi iron head flinch, it sucks now
I only play post-preview gens so these vids are a cool insight into the older gens that I don't touch for the lack of knowledge surrounding them. BW, XY, SM and especially SS are all more centered around your skill in positioning and scouting your opponent's team vs something like DPP or SV where both are very important but fundamentally understanding teambuilding, team structures and tera types respectively, is so important to being successful in the tier. I feel like the tyrants success in SV this season really highlights that with how CTC built the teams all season and how dominant he was before getting banned. I think the issue is, like you said, the bar to enter ends up being way higher than other similar generations so people who are generally good at pokemon try to pick it up and do well but the lack of easily accessible information is the issue. With the team preview gens sans SV, what you said rings true, RBY and GSC is a lot more simple in teambuilding, ADV has had a huge resurgence in playerbase and interest thanks to Jimothy Cool and SV being current gen, DPP is uniquely inaccesible by being a pre-preview gen with the complexities of a post-preview gens while lacking a notable playerbase.
Gen 4 OU specifically has numerous bad traits like Iron head Jirachi, strong sleep users, and strong impact of paralysis. In gen 3 the sleep users are much worse and paralysis isn't as common. Also rock resists are a must in ADV and your first line of defense against ddtar/aero but in gen 4 you often need to check gyarados with non-water resists so flinches are more decisive.
I like Gen 4 mechanics and it results in very good alt metagames (UU particularly) but I much prefer Gen 3's OU.
I feel like adv skarmory doesnt bullshit its way through games in nearly the same way as the flinch/para/confuse spam stuff does. I've never lost to a skarm and felt like it was unfair but ive definitely been immobilized by jirachi for like 7 turns straight and forfeited.
Im sure the best players still win, its not an uncompetitive metagame. I just personally dont find it fun to have the best mons in the meta fishing for hax literally every single game, to the point where its a defining characteristic of the tier
@@pokegarchomp Is it ignorant to call Irom Head Jirachi "fishing for hax" when the odds are in it's favor? 60% flinch rates are frustrating as is, along with Body Slam Paralysis as well bolstering the odds that much more. I won't say the metagame's uncompetitive, that's a lie. But it feels weird that the best mon in the tier can cheese through so many wins that you sometimes don't have as much control over
the biggest problem i have with gen 4 ou is that some of the back sprites are horrendous
Like which ones? All the ones I see in the video are quite good. I will say that I think Platinum sprites are better than HGSS ones though (Scizor, Jolteon...), and unfortunately PokemonShowdown uses HGSS, not Platinum.
latias @@DJFracus
@@DJFracusmetagross
Funny how I decided to start DPP OU two days ago to freshen things up. It’s a great mix of “oh god what do I do against ___” followed by “thank god I have ___”. It’s pretty fun and for once I like Blissey.
I wish Jirachi was banned but whatever. The only other issue i have is the prevalence and necessity of stealth rock makes many pokemon almost outright unusable, which just isn't fun, so if we could magic boots into the game then it would be far and away my favourite metagame. Gen 4 is my favourite gen in general
Which mons would be OU viable without rocks? There aren't actually that many rock weak mons in OU, and the ones that are there would be busted without the passive damage from rocks (Gyarados, Zapdos, Togekiss). I mean I guess Moltres and Yanmega would be cool in OU, but many would argue that rocks are a necessity for metagame health.
@@schroederluck7984 Ot's not about 'this mon would be OU if not for rocks' and more about 'i'd love to try this mon for fun but literally can't'. Talking less about balance at the highest level of play and more about fun and creativity
@@jaykovar8231 which mons you referring to specifically that you wanna try? Like scyther or something lol
@@schroederluck7984zard mayb
Sis you really suggest heavy duty boots for gen 4??? Lmaoo cmon dude
In Memoriam: Froslass
BKC the entire video: "Git gud"
i'm pretty new to dpp competitively but i never understood why people called it madhouse, i didn't feel like i was losing vs people playing badly more regularly than others tiers, and most of my tournament losses i felt my opponent played better than i did
Amazing timing i was about to sleep so now i can sleep calmly 😴
The semicolon titles make their return; awesome.
I started with gen 6 back in 2015, became a dpp fan later but recently I’ve really grown to appreciate adv, I always slept on pre-gen 4 because no physical special split but it’s actually kinda cool to work with
Everything got fucked up with landorus-therian.
my favorite thing about dpp is theres way less switching than in team preview gens. hidden teams encourages you not to reveal your other pokemon until you have to. also its just way cooler and is how pokemon is meant to be played imo. breloom is absolute cancer though
Actually working on my own personal DPPt OU format, adding new Pokémon into the tier and seeing if they are healthy.
As of right now, I've added Great Tusk (without Booster). He's a kill or be killed Pokémon, great for HO, and yet he has some utility with Knock Off, Spin and Stealth Rocks.
The catch, is they will only be allowed access to Gen4 moves unless they have a signature move. So Tusk runs things like
Adamant @Scarf../Leftovers
Head Smash
Earthquake
Megahorn
Ice Fang/Close Combat../Bulk Up
really funny to see this video as someone who doesn’t watch/pay attention to many competitive players besides you, since i just about only know dpp as a great meta
no team preview can also punish experience. I can just pick "wrong" and then win because my opponent was playing around what was "Right"
DPP OU is a worse version of DPP Ubers; here's why
my thoughts on dpp ou is that im glad it exists but im equally glad that i don't have to play it lol. at this point the power level was getting high enough that it had stopped feeling completely reasonable to defend against the terrifying unknown sweepers in the back, but it was still just about doable so for the players that can handle it it's a very unique experience that sets itself apart nicely from the other old gens. gens 1 and 5 just do their own thing, then gen 2 is about being methodical, gen 3 is balance simulator, and gen 4 is ruthlessly aggressive, between 2 and 4 there's a good experience for everyone it's just personal preference. and just to be clear, when i said that it's not completely reasonable to answer the threat in the back, i wasn't saying that's a bad thing about the tier or that it's all just matchup, the point was that dpp sets itself apart by forcing you to really think about it. the entire premise of complaining about a fundamental aspect of an old tier is just insane to me, like are you trying to convince people to stop playing a tier they enjoy? or are you worried that gamefreak will go back to no preview in gen 10? just play the tiers you enjoy
It used to be my favorite gen, but ADV has aged way better. The game you showed featured two teams built around abusing and protecting itself from para spam and the game still ultimately came down to an untimely full para and that about sums up the state of DPP OU for the past few years. Bringing back Latias was a mistake because now no one wants to do anything about the two biggest elephants in the room, Jirachi and Clef.
Team preview kids must lose their marbles when rachi rain dances halfway thru the game
Just ban Iron Head and it'll be good.
...Okay, I can't just leave it at that one-liner. Iron Head's pretty anomalous as far as meta-breaking things go: it's absolute horseshit on Jirachi and specifically Jirachi, but literally nothing else in the tier even runs it. Some might complain that banning Iron Head from only Jirachi is way too specific as a complex ban, but it doesn't even have to be a complex ban. Just ban Iron Head itself from DPP OU, and boom, you've massively improved the tier with basically no collateral damage. (Some have also obviously proposed just banning Jirachi outright, but I feel like that would have drastic consequences on the tier, especially with Latias running around.)
it is unfortunate that Iron Head is Jirachi's only physical steel move
@@chauncymarlowe3710 if Iron Head gets banned it'll be similar to ADV Jirachi, would still be viable IMO although obviously weaker
This should be the approach. Iron Head isn't really used on anything else so this ban would mostly target Jirachi. Plus players trying to emulate Iron Head + Para Jirachi with Zen Headbutt are going to get walled by Darks and Pyschics like Tyranitar, Umbreon, and to a lesser extent Latias. Being forced to U-Turn out for any damage, taking up a moveslot that could be used for hazards, Protect, or Wish, constraining the set just to use a STAB move with iffy coverage against alot of OU. Magnezone would also resist this flinch move, still making it a viable flinch absorber and potential Jirachi trapper if it can get past the obligatory Fire Punches.
Edit: spelling
@@notjack2491Iron Head is used on Registeel in UU and OU. Just ban Iron Head + Jirachi, that would make the tier so much better.
@@Elijah-hz9ls You would have to ban all flinch moves on Jirachi, including Zen Headbutt. Possibly all flinch moves on Pokemon with Serene Grace as an ability, which would impact Togekiss (Air Slash, Headbutt, Zen Headbutt) and Dunsparce (Headbutt, Zen Headbutt) to make this full proof, something I'd be fine with. That's honestly the most practical and obvious solution. But unfortunately, the decision makers behind all of this are operating under the understanding that "complex bans" like the one I'm suggesting are inherently unhealthy for the overall metagame. Not sure what's so "complex" about it though, read the forums when you get the chance, these people talk like lawyers and forget its a niche competive Pokémon community that's almost 20 years old. It's really ridiculous sometimes and shouldn't be as serious as it is. Banning Iron Head outright is the best compromise. If the trade off for making something as spammed like Jirachi less polarizing, oppressive, and while giving it a higher skill ceiling (ParaFlinch Jirachi would fall out of favor, Lead Stealth Rock Jirachi, Wish + Protect Jirachi, and Calm Mind Super-Rachi would rise up in usage. You would see more variety with Jirachi instead of weirdos trying to Iron Head your Magnezone to death because that's the meta) is that stuff like Registeel or Scizor are deprived of a STAB option, then I could live with that. It's really dumb that we'd be forced into this approach by really stupid tiering policy, and unproblematic members of the meta like steel types that enjoy access to Iron Head would be impacted , but it is what it is.
I played gen 2 when I was a teenager but you couldn't call that "competitive" so, gen 4 OU was actually the first gen played competitively. Loved it. Not having bullshit gimmicks was awesome, I miss when Pokemon was like that.
I love how the video opens with all of 4 words planned out before he needs to reach for what hes trying to say
You use a semicolon when the sentence in front is like a synonym or the same as the second sentence. Its the middle of a point and a comma. When the sentences are too connected to seperate them with a point but not connected enough to connect them with a comma. Thats how my teacher explained it to me and what i remember.
im convinced (just clicked the video)
4:07 starmie always letting me down
Really random but can we PLEASE ban Dynamic Punch. I know you aren't in control of this but this is really my only big issue with the tier and it's been bothering me for quite some time
ban Iron Head
the thing that i dont really get about dpp is teambuilding. conventions around what constitutes acceptable counterplay to a lot of waters in particular (starmie, offcune, kingdra, etc) are sorta hard to wrap my head around coming from adv and preview gens, as well as the lead metagame (seems to matter way more than adv)
i love dpp OU, it was my first meta... xy ou is nice too. i like the fast pace
Jirachi Iron Head
We love Gen4 OU because it is more tactical and strategic.
I havent played it in a while but for about a year I played it a lot and actually enjoyed it. You are right BKC you do have to youse your brains. Now I mostly just do randbats with a nice joint when Im relaxing. 😊
EDIT: Custap berry Machamp brings a shit eating grin to my face 😅
>more tactical and strategic
Speak for yourself, I’m running boom metagross lead every game
Hippowdown/ skarmory core players can gc
It is most likely cause I suck, but I really just don’t like Iron Head Jirachi
can someone explain why weavile is so unseen? Is it because no good ice physical moves with the combination of steel still resisting dark
Now, I'm by no means a dppt EXPERT but i am someone who's loved the tier and played for years and years now and i can give the decently educated take of "yeah that's pretty much it", with a few more things. Weavile eats all hazards about as well as lax takes a dynamicpunch (being, it can't) and outright folds to skarmory, scizor, and can't do a whole lot to bronzong or rachi either. It's vulnerable to getting chipped down by omnipresent sand, and the one niche it DOES have has gotten significantly worse as the years have gone by, since 2 of the main targets are now banned in today's meta (priority revengekilling dragons)
Cant wait for "Usum OU is better; here's why"
what would be the negative of having open teamsheet bo1 formats ?
I thought this guy was supposed to be knowledgeable, but I finished the video and nothing he has said truly means anything. It’s just packed with buzzwords to obfuscate its lack of substance.
BKC actually perfectly describes my problem with this video himself at around 5:45,
“a lot of what passes for competitive pokemon discourse involves uninformed players very confidently making aggressive assertions that are also very incorrect.”
I believe the constant praise he receives has made him self-indulgent and lackadaisical when it comes to getting to a point.
He seems less concerned with- and unwilling to actually make proclamations, and more with just scattering tidbits that he's got on his mind which he doesn't feel like attempting to cohere into an actual argument. Nothing wrong with speaking off the cuff, but meandering only to lead up to partway of the purported destination is deflating for someone expectant like you and I.
Perhaps simply this is just a commentary channel, effectively. Best to temper the expectations from hereon.
I don't know if i totally agree with what you said, but I also felt a lack of substance in the video. It felt more of a critique of the people having the "DPP is bad" opinion rather than a critique of the opinion itself, which lead to the most of the discourse being "play more DPP, don't expect to be good by just coming into the tier and getting team passed, play better".
Coming from someone who has no opinion on DPP ftr.
@@yourdagan Your comment is how BKC thinks he sounds like when he talks.
DPP = Budget ADV
Not even close
DPP OU goated
hey bkc, i dont know if you’ve discussed it before but what are your thoughts on gen 8 OU?
Free Froslass
Honestly DPP Ou is still my favorite meta game of all gens
DPP OU is my second favorite OU metagame tbh.
more dpp ubers too
This video should have been titled "Why some tournament players criticize DPP OU".
I'm not a fan of the tier myself, but my gripes weren't echoed by the views being rebutted nor the little bit of "Why it's actually a good tier" tacked on at the end. I just don't feel like the statement was followed through on.
what microphone do you use?
I just wish Iron Head had Rock Slide accuracy
SEMICOLON IS BACK!
YIPPEE
The fact you had to compare iron head Jirachi and dynamic punch twave teams to Latios in BW speaks volumes lmao
A daring use of a semicolon befitting a video this bold
5 minutes in and still have gone into 0 detail about your points
I think we should be able to “manipulate” power creep.
Smogon or not. The modern remakes have already done this. Legends, bdsp, let’s go even. All arbitrarily shuffling the deck. In a more influential way than the mons built to flip the board: weather, tapus and rilla, magic bounce. Trappers. Trapping itself is influenced by game mechanics. It’s not even a correct slop of balanced. Rby, wrap, gsc trash, adv, oh yaaa, dpp then on, it’s a problem. And then by what gen 6 ghosts are ghost immune and we haven’t even had the chance to use terra to evade trapping, terra ghosting.
We can terra dark to avoid pursuit. Like a Hoopa U lived a mega scept suit. Despite a -1, due to terra dark.
Yet the game is not advanced enough to spend the gimmick, just to switch. Because Pokémon does not realize the power in its hands, and the limits of how bitchmade players can be. “Strongest game freak money hungry CEO vs weakest stall enjoyer” this is how you get 1 step closer to creating a better game, why vgc should be 6v6. The mons are already getting too much for singles itself.
Dpp marks trapping being crazy, as well as a handful of mons outlawed from standard play.
Ok how did these games wrench the old gens w/ the new gen sauce.
Let’s go: easily did it correctly. Brought back alolans, megas, correct ish movesets. Ya no items no hazards. But no hyper beam or speed crits. That’s like a 8/10 job for mixing RBY correctly
BDSP! My god. They sent rain back in time by 1 gen. And did the reverse scar vio. And somehow did that backwards.
-alongside rain, mons gained the fairy typing, ya same for LgPE, poison heal, magic guard Zam! The demon of BW.
Yet soul dew does not go back to being the lati Uber pass, no perma sand, no pursuit, ttar as well as the rest of the mons are too crippled. Yet scald and knock are not going back to not existing or going back to being haryiama’s thing
And no levitate gengar. Can’t regain an ability you lost. Nor megas or alolan.
Zapdos becomes uu again, cuz his movepool is dawg shit. The chomp treatment. Now if galarian zapdos was brought back, he’d be cooking w/ the same moves.
Every dpp OU ban would explode into an AG Mon, alongside dpp farceus.
Garchomp: he’s stuck to Sandveil again (articuno lost pressure but he didn’t lose Rocky helmet HMMMM 🗿) he was deadass supposed to have
“sandveil mega Garchomp” in a game foreign to Kyurem black level fire power barring Deoxys and titans. Anywhere but Ubers
He’d also gain perma sand, something sand force mega chomp never had again, kings rock, loaded dice, for old chomp.
Mence: gains moxie, a mega. Oh I guess mega ray also gets revived nvm still a trash Uber mega hehehaha.
Oh the next bit is mainly just “gimmick mashing”
At least the prior related to ruleset change.
“Mega gengar, he had 1 gen to abuse levitate. But Yk what he gained after the gen he lost it? A gmax”
Slowbro, he’s got more alternate forms than charizard.
“Mega galarian slowking”
And then shoving modern mons and gens entirely into older gens. Doing that and reverse just sounds too much to theory.
-How many new OU titans can u throw at GSC snorlax. While said mons endure “reverse power creep technique” snorlax is literally the gojo of Pokémon.
Gsc snorlax vs rby Tauros, mewtwo, Ttar, skarm lose weather, spikes, gain a mega. Oh Tauros would have 3 other Tauros to have fun hyper beaming. If let’s go happened later.
Or even rby mewtwo is a good match up. This was literally once “the strongest Mon in history vs the strongest Mon of today” until snorlax somehow crashed out from sleeping so hard.
Oh god this would also bring back explosion. Prime explosion, in the hands of LANDO, gene!
I would be booming everyone. No matter the gimmick.
okay it's completely valid to hate DPP OU in your words the hisuan samurott is hated by the people who play the teir and I think it got banned but I remember off the top of my head.
no preview is simply a very high burden of entry for people that play DPP on occasion but not all the time. and the percentage of these players is going up.
Brb reading "A Degrassi Book: Joey Jeremiah"
I like how tera in gen 9 also rewards meta knowledge and safer, scouting plays kinda like the way non-team preview does in DPP.
BKC
TRUE!
offense, defense, balance, all 3 are completely viable in dpp
They hated Kevin, because he told them the truth
Basically, DPP = High Skill Ceiling
I know its not entirely the point but Fakes played that game brilliantly, BKC couldn't have picked a better replay to show off skill in DPP
The semicolon is Good; here's why
If you think DPP OU is bad, you probably just have a skill issue (I would know, I eat shit the moment I don't have team preview in constructed play)
Hail in Gen 4 is viable, rachi isn’t as meta, the world is healing.
It feels like only now people are bothering to try to see the value of Hail in metas with permanent weather, and that value is unfortunately the fact that it is not a better weather up. But in gens where you do have great weather synergy (which is Gens 4-5), and Abomasnow is decent enough until you get Alolan Ninetales in general, Hail is fine but just merely very challenging and a paradigm shift.
i love dpp i just wish they would drop mence💔
ban iron head and clef and we good
My fave pokemon salamence being banned makes me not wanna play😃
Many people have been saying this
Yes. The best generation.
Beta Kame Cnowledge
Ban clef an u have a good tier
Day 1 of asking for more BW Ubers content
It's good till it's isn't. "someone said probably ever" 2024
;
ewww the names on the team of the frist game
Balance is severely overrated imo
Every OU is bad :)
43995 Imelda Tunnel
I played competitive 6 only, but for what it's worth, I thought having team preview has been more a bane than a boon. Kinda like a "genie's out the bottle" type of situation.
;