Doug Brignole on Back Training for Bodybuilding
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Doug and Ric discuss three specific back exercises that develop the back and they are not what you think
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So sad these two have gone. Ric was getting up there. But doug was a relatively young man. Rip guys.
Doug took the jab.
@rockon8174 he took the jab a YEAR before he passed...the juice from the jab is essentially useless after a few months. It runs it's course.
Miss Doug so much
Both these legends are unfortunately not alive today. You will always be remembered.
Find you guys so calming to listen too...i regualrly listen to your interviews...just sad your both gone but not forgoten...miss you both and thank you for your interesting conversations.. from the uk
Doug, is the encyclopedia of muscle operation. Everytime Ric has him on I always learn a new method of movement, I have been bodybuilding for 45-years and when you think you know it, a genius named Doug Brignole comes along and shows you how little you really know, great show Ric!
Best bodybuilding channel on youtube, but you have to know what your doing to appreciate it.
Doug has a few recent pod casts and videos on here,I could listen to him all day
Doug Brignole always a wealth of information!!!!
That is so sad and such a loss that both of these guys are gone.
I am blind, so following Mr dogs program, is extremely difficult, I work out hard, even though I am blind, I will just stick with, the traditional stuff, I love your show Rick, God bless you, and are you do
God bless YOU Kevin!
God bless you
God bless you Kev
Nearly blind myself. Getting there soon.
Its tough but doable now.
God bless.
Doug : " Nothing Ever Stays The Same" 👍 Except Mike O'Hearn 😄
😂
Doug is the best bodybuilding coach in the business by a mile !!!
Great to see Doug as always.
Thank you so much gentlemen for this enlightening conversation, two iconic stars of the movement. Rest in peace Ric!
the old school camera quality make this channel one out of a billion
Please do the same type of Video for chest and arms and legs
Following is my approach
A. Learn the muscles of the back.
C. Study their structure in regards to their origins, insertions, and actions.
D. From C select exercises for two rules of muscles. They only work on the joints they cross. Muscles work best in the direction of their fibers.
The above is beneficial for choosing cable and dumbbell isolation exercises. It also aids in applying lever arms to muscle joints.
Man, I can't believe Doug also passed away :( RIP
Hi Ric...tks for having Doug on again... Our personal fav!
Working out at home is so nice, especially as you get older. No waiting.
Ric, you’re a legend mate. Nothing to prove 👍 thank you for sharing your priceless knowledge and experience - Because of you guys, As a 38 year old,I changed my attitude to become more mindful of longevity and doing the right exercises, Great video as always guys - many thanks take care 💪
Always enjoy when you have Doug on your show Ric.
Ric, you got my interest when you talked about a workout for us older guys (I’m a fit 70, 6’ at 200 lbs) that just want to look good, feel good and stay healthy, and not a “Competition” workout.
I’d like to hear more of your viewpoint about that.
Thank you!
Love the show, you got me back to working out last year.
Doug’s trying to give information to full spectrum of weight trainers and Ric brings it back to his situation. I know it’s Ric’s Channel but he should do more to let Doug speak complete idea’s before interrupting.
Ric isn’t his usual self in this video….. check his earlier interview with Doug
Still watching Ric 2021! RIP brother.
So good to see Ric here, I miss this guy, I never met him, but followed his videos, it’s like going home seeing him here 😭☺️
Doug’s the man , rip Ric, miss him 😔
Thanks to Doug and his book I’m finally getting results every session and my joint pains are disappearing
Makes Athlean X Jeff look mediocre and bro science
Athlean X IS broscience! His chest workout is ridiculous. Why on earth would you need to do 4 pressing movements? The science is clear that bench pressing has only one benefit: load. Therefore, you should bench at whichever angle gives you the greatest amount of load which for most people is decline, but some prefer flat bench due to shoulder pain on the decline bench. Then, he has dips instead of decline bench despite the fact that the decline bench allows for WAAAY more load than a dip ever could allow for with the added benefit of an easier form to perform. Finally, he has crossovers after every bench movement which again makes no sense. Low to high crossovers are okay, but his angle is too high and unnecessary for chest. The decline crossovers are basically horizontal crossovers at an angle so they're not necessary. I know what he's trying to do, but it's not as effective as other methods.
@@freebachelor5060 Yes i agree totally! As Doug says , no need to waste unnecessary effort in the gym doing multiple exercises when all you need is the one or two exercises which meet all the criteria , and have you pulling the insertion toward the origin, and yes agree on dips, double cable that mimics the dip movement gives you far superior range of motion without the strain on the rotator cuff, these work the vertical fibers and the decline or flat dumbell presses work the majority of fibers with superior range of motion......Doug's way and biomechanics /physics is about training smart rather than just hard, whereas Jeff's way, hmmm not so!!
Thanks so much Ric and Doug. I am so grateful to you for sharing your knowledge.
Nothing better than this. I come back and watch again.
Doug's book is fantastic!
If your over 50 you will benefit from it's content. Train smart , live long !!! Keep Pumpin 💪
thanks ric
Great info from Doug. Just by doing the motions themselves without any weight you can feel the activation of the targeted muscles.
I will also say that I did a lat workou yesterday and my gym has the MAG grips for pulldowns...they also provide an amzing pump so I highly recommend them..but really looking fwd to trying Doug's exercises next workout.
Wow I love this.
Another great video. Realistic. I love hearing you guys talk.
Always awesome to hear these great physiological based tips. Applying it to my PT business in LA has been helpful in many ways. Keep it up big Ric
The book of Doug is fabulous, just bought the PDF cause I didn't want to wait anymore for the book, I can't stop reading! Funny thing is when you read, you can just hear him talk.:)
Just done Doug’s back workout. Will take a few sessions to get the technique perfected but I’m impressed already. Felt right
Rip Ric and Doug you are missed ....NZ
I agree with Doug - generally - but I also maintain that working out should be FUN. So they're are certain exercises I just love..
I 'm 61 years old and I' still the strongest guy in the gym and LOVE my chinups. I don't hang weights off me any more, but I refuse to give it up. I love your show and I truly appreciate what you've done and appreciate all your guests. God bless you and all of your wonderful guests.
Also, don't miss a workout, brother. Not even one.
Chinups at 61? No shoulder issues from those dead hang pulls?
Love the knowledge and the information Doug. Ill be using these techniques leading up to the AAU Universe in 3 weeks. Love that shrug variation too! Thanks to you and Rick!🙏
Thanks! Fantastiskt like usual! My favorite 2 gentlemen! Have a nice weekend! From your ironbrother in Sweden.☺
Hi Doug good sound scientific advice !!! It seems to me that as guys age particularly over 50, delts seems to be the muscle that suffers the most ! Arms chest and back muscle mass appears to be easier to maintain to some degree even at 60 on some guys !!!!! but i rarely see guys 50 plus with thick ROUND delts ? Do you agree? And besides shoulder injuries obviously can you give any insight to why delts "dissappear'?
Thank you Ric and Doug always so informative Doug is AWESOME!!
Great old vid here but man, the amount of volume he is doing is insane. I can't sit there doing scapular retractions for 10 sets.. I'd rather do 3 diff exercises for 2-3 sets for variety.
Doug is a genius.
"I'm falling apart." - right in the feels.
I bought Doug's book a few weeks ago and I love it! Brilliant stuff!
Age is but a number . Both of you look great . Long live the both of you.
Looking good doug ! I bought your book. It's a wealth of information. Love all your shows Ric !
miss you Ric.....
As always a great session.
Ric's reaction at 24:18 is priceless... Luv these guys...
hey Doug, just make sure your book is on Audible - most people (like me) have a book playing while driving, prepping dinner, etc. and we go to Audible & pay for it. ✌
RIP to them both
Thanks Rick you are fantastic from Eddie born 1960, you the best 🏋️♀️
brilliant show
Does the high rep method he mentions (i.e. 50, 40, 30 ,20 ,10) work well for natural lifters?
Throughout my training years, I have been under the impression that the stronger you get in the ~6 to 12 rep range, the bigger you will be. For example, who will have bigger legs, the person who squats 405x10 or the person who squats 225x10 for a max?
I am willing to give it a try if this is a different route to hypertrophy and more importantly, training while reducing injury and joint pain. Thanks for all the good info.
R.I.P. ric
I'd like to see a video of the cable lat pull Doug talks about. I want to make sure it's done properly.
Yes, $40 to work out at Golds Venice but everyone was nice and like an old fashioned gym
I just found out that Doug has a video course at smart training 365. I will be getting that course for sure.
You funny rick, thanks all the story's and wisdom
RIP Ric 🙏🏻💪🏼🏋🏻♀️
Miss Ric
Worked scapular retraction movement into my workout (placed incline bench with vertical back facing away from cybex machine) along with two-sided lat pull-in off dual pulley setup but with minimal results over last 3-months. Abandoning for now and going back to Vince Gironda's high bench dumbbell row - one of the best all round back thickeners imho - where you pull in arms into side on eccentric part, but switching the lat pull-ins to narrower cybex machine for better stretch. Here's hoping!
When I was teenager I wish somebody told me do not do behind the neck presses the only pressing I can do flat dumbbell press I’m in my 40s
40 bucks for a daily?? Wow! There's a YMCA that just opened up where I live here near Thousand Oaks and they want 90 bucks a month.. What happened to affordable gyms??
Get a job you communist
I miss this guy ….. Rip
Tell that to Dorian Yates or Ronnie?👀
Lol
This might be a dumb question, but does the rotator cuff group not count as back?
the rotator cuff muscles all connect from the scapula to the shoulder capsule, so I'd put them in the 'shoulder' category
@@wetsandwich33 awesome, thanks!
In B4 Brignole lat pull ins
Would 6 sets per body part eg- 6 sets for your lats, 6 sets for your traps, 6 sets for your rear delta, 6 sets for your chest enough to get decent results? I know Doug does 10 sets and he said 4 sets isn’t enough but I don’t have the time to do 10 sets per body part. I would have to get into the gym more days per week than I am able to to achieve that. I train4 days per week.
I’m not looking out complete but definitely want to a body that gets attention and also to be healthy as I move into my 40s and beyond
Gold's, it's all about being full; full muscles, full car park..
I agree with Ric family first
Idk about y’all but I don’t mind getting extra rear delt work lol
Rick, you look fantastic, even for a twenty-years younger man.
He was in bad shape .He passed away shortly after this.
Brignole doesn't mention the fact that the lats are shoulder extensors as well as adductors (and have lots of other functions, as well, including assisting in lateral flexion of the lumbar spine). Extensors pull the arm back from the front. That's why rows do work well for the lats. In fact, if you look at his pull-in, the path of the movement is not just down and in. It is down, in, AND back. The exercise starts with the arm up (at 30 degrees) and slightly to the front (at 40 degrees). So you ARE pulling down AND back. And if you look at how he demonstrates the movement, he includes a small lateral lumbar spine flexion at the end. So the pull-in incorporates a number of functions he does not mention and even claims other muscles (rear delts) do. Is the pull-in sufficient by itself? I don't see why it would be, even on Doug's own biomechanical theory. This is because there is a tremendous variation in the orientation of the lat fibers, with the lower lats oriented at something like a 70 degree angle, and the uppermost fibers being close to horizontal. In fact, years ago, in a video he did for IronMan, he said that the row is the best width builder for the upper lats. So, there are reasons to be skeptical about what Doug is saying here.
Doug mentioned in the Mark Bell interview that he previously did a lot of rowing and felt the t-bar rows were a very important and necessary exercise for back width... but as his thinking on how to approach exercises evolved, he reluctantly dropped all rowing exercises from his routines.
Since dropping all t-bar rowing (or any other kind of vertical rows), he said he saw absolutely no difference in his back development whatsoever over time... he now wishes he had dropped them all much sooner in favor of lat pull-ins and scapular retractions because they deliver the same results that rowing did and more efficiently.
@@davepazz580 I am skeptical.For one thing, it is much easier to maintain a muscle than to build it in the first place. Would Brignole have built his width in the first place without rows (and regular chins or pulldowns, for that matter)? Maybe, but doubtful. I don't set a lot of store by EMG studies, but those studies indicate that rows give the lats a lot of work. In any event, neither rows nor his pull-in give you optimal lengthening of the lats. If you want to stretch the lats fully, raise the arm in front or slightly across the body, not to the side as in Brignole's pull-in. Try it . Raise one arm to the start position of a pull-in, with the non-working hand on your lat. Move the raised arm to the front and then slightly across your body. You'll feel your lat getting more taught as it lengthens. I'll say one thing more about pull-ins: getting the form right is not as easy as Brignole claimed, and if you mess it up (by having too much or or too little external rotation of the shoulder), you can actually tweak something. I know because it's happened to me. I am happy for those in the cult of Doug who have succeeded with Brignole's methods. I even do a few of his exercises--I spent the $50 or whatever for his book. But I don't believe it all.
I was also quite skeptical myself, but now I just don't see any logical reason why doing lat pull-ins and scapular retractions (and obviously, training those movements very hard and consistently over time using progressive resistance) *wouldn't* make one develop their back muscles as well as anything else.
Regardless of anything else... regardless of biomechanics or efficient loading of one exercise vs. another, ect. it boils down to the fact that the lat pull-in is simply another pull movement that engages the lats - so why would it somehow *not* develop the lats?
Especially when you combine this with scapular pulls (which is pretty much like a weighted "rowing" movement)... how would it be possible to focus like crazy on these 2 exercises and somehow, your lat muscles will remain the same?
Just doesn't make any sense to me... and if just want to "stretch" the lats as much as possible, yes that requires another movement - but this is about development.
EMG studies are only useful to find out some curiosities about exercises, such as that standard pull-ups actually "activate" the chest muscles... but nobody in their right mind would advocate doing pull-ups to develop their chest specifically.
In the time I've spent with lat pull-ins, I've had no problems with form and proper execution whatsoever, but I guess that's an individual issue... but for me, it looks pretty straight-forward and actually feels very natural.
There are indeed other aspects of Brignole's methods that don't sit well with me (such as training frequency, ideal workout splits, sets and reps, etc.) his arguments for those aspects of training don't really convince me...
But for exercise selection, so far I see no real issues...
@@davepazz580 I didn't say the lat pull-in is worthless for developing the lats.There just are better choices. Not all exercises that "engage[]" the lats are equal. That also was Brignole's point, by the way. I also think there's a good basis to conclude that, because of the multiple origins of the lat fibers and the different orientations of the fibers, there is no reason to believe that a single exercise is going to be optimal for the lats. But hey, if you like the pull-in and want to do just that and the scapular retraction exercise, have at it.
Finally
I have a garage gym with just barbells and dumb bells. What can I do to simulate these back movements?
Unfortunately not much... you need a pulley machine from above at least.
Stay hard my friends😅
😔❤🙏
Maybe Rick has a touch of that Polymyalgia Rheumatica condition.
Inflammatory disease which results in muscle ache and stiffness around shoulder.
Caused by hereditary and environmental conditions. Pain in shoulders, neck, upper arms, and buttocks are the main symptoms. Medication and physical therapy are the treatment options.
Science 🧪
Yeah, I think no subway in L.A. thanks to the likes of Henry Ford (or similar) who bought and shutdown the rail network.
Doug is incorrect. I doubt if any top bodybuilder would agree with him. Anyone top bodybuilder that has a great back believes in deadlifts & heavy rows. He may have a weak back in general.
Michael Del Signore Highly incorrect. As Doug said conventional back exercise do work, but what he’s advising is the most natural biomechanical movement for that muscle that is safest! Heavy deadlifting and rows can lead to lots of injuries. Look at many retired pros and you’ll see what I’m saying is true
I can not believe people fall for what this clown is saying. The isolation exercises he describes is already part of the compound movement for example the isolation exercise he describes for the spinal erector muscle is already part of the deadlift.
I hope the spinal exercise he described is NOT part of your deadlift. He already mentioned you train the erect when u deadlift but isometrically.
@@malcolmjelani3588 Wrong, it is not an isometric exercise. When you come up from a deadlift you have as much movement as he is showing in his goofy isolation exercise for the spinal erectors.
@@MrDarrelln64 wrong. If you are flexing the spinal erectors in a deadlift, you’re going to get hurt. His exercise uses less weight and get the same result. You’re closed minded and nothing you’re saying is science based. You’re married to shit technique.
@@malcolmjelani3588 Yes, I agree you do not want to go through a complete flexing like he is doing when doing a deadlift and your right if you hyper extend that way on a heavy deadlift you could get injured, but a regular deadlift is all you need to build a big strong powerful back. I have been lifting for 41 years and have a degree in exercise science. I know what I am talking about. Believe me he is just trying to sell his book. There are some good things Doug says, but I mainly disagree with the extremely high repetitions he recommends and how much he puts down compound movements. All of the great bodybuilders got their built from compound movements. I think what he says is good for an older lifter but what he recommends is not the best way to build muscle. He did not build his physique the way he trains now. He has said that he trained heavy with compound movements when he was younger. He looks good for his age but when he was younger he had a rugged powerful look that only comes from lifting heavy with basic compound movements. Steve Holeman the former editor and chief of Iron Man magazine is the most accurate when it comes to the science of exercise, Ben Halsall knows what he is talking about. Jerry Brainum is very good and Athlean X is very good. Follow these guys and stop being fooled by guys like Doug Brignole.
@@MrDarrelln64 ok.
Print the book already don't be cheap
It's already in print...