Masters in mechanical engineering: Ideally if one rad is an intake and one is an exhaust, then the liquid leaving the components would first go through the exhaust rad for initial cooling. Then the initially cooled liquid would go through the rad getting supplied with fresh air. This is based on the concept of counter flow heat exchangers.
So you mean first cool the hotter water 'a little' with the hot rad, and then finish off the cooling of the 'pre-cooled' fluid by moving it through the colder rad. That's good thinking!
Have worked in the chemical industry for the last 15 years or so and what you have described is basic heat exchanger principles. Have helped design a couple shell/tube exchangers myself and what you are describing will probanly give the best efficency for heat disapation. It will still depend alot on air exchange rates though. All my experience is with fluid to fluid heat transfer not so much air/fluid. Would love to see the testing on the different configurations.
It would be interesting to test it in a number of configurations. I would think the best way would actually be PUSH-PUSH. Let the top and bottom mesh provide intakes of cold air into the box, and push that cold air out through the rads. It seems like those two vents would be enough.
It doesn't look like the case supports it but seems like being able to put fans on the top and bottom would make it better either way so your not just counting on pos/neg pressure.
Same thoughts here, but I also feel like, all things being equal, the temp differences would be marginal, potentially slightly cooler with a cross flow due to the sheer airflow. It just seems like there would be some sort of equilibrium regardless of whether you have fresh intake air to both rads or blow through one into the other, much like how order of components in a loop don't make a difference...
Living in Anchorage, there's two reasons so much air cargo passes through Alaska. The first is it's actually a shorter flight than flying to LA, San Francisco, or even Seattle. The second reason is that it's significantly cheaper to fly into Anchorage or even Fairbanks because the landing fees charged to the airlines are less. UPS and FedEx both have big hubs here, as does Amazon Air.
Also, that route stays a lot closer to land, which is handy given contemporary aviation maintenance. To be fair, it was a good idea when aircraft were a lot more reliable.
" The first is it's actually a shorter flight than flying to LA, San Francisco, or even Seattle." The "Great Circle." 🙂 It's always the shortest path. Radio waves behave the same way.
I have filters on my system as well. They're the really fine mesh silverstone filters that almost look like silk. I actually find it way easier just to suck them off with a vacuum and a brush attachment. No screws, no removal. I built my system in 2015 and the inside is still clean.
I also just vacuum my filters. The dirt is on the outside so why not just use a vacuum to suck it off from the outside! :D if doing it regularly it wont build up enough to get inside.
If you look at a globe instead of a map, Alaska is basically right in between Asia and the rest of North America, so it makes perfect sense as a shipping hub.
In addition, flying over open ocean is actually considered rather dangerous. Both passenger and cargo airlines prefer to either hug the coast or island hop to always minimize the distance to the nearest safe landing site. If a plane has a problem, it's better to be able to land quickly and fix it than to end up with an anthropomorphic soccer ball as a best friend.
It is a substantially shorter distance to go first to Alaska and then LA. 99% Cant wrap their head around it because of the scale and type of maps that are mainstream
I would say the split flow (All fans exhausting) might be the easiest way to create the cooling, as long as you have enough passive intake to keep fresh air for the fans to pull from. However, another option that would really work nice, is have it a cross flow (1 set intake, the other exhaust), but have the exhaust radiator be the first part of water flow (to begin the cooling), and then have it go through the intake radiator (to get the freshest air for the final cooling).
Personally, I would have cool air come in through the top and bottom vents so it can go through the radiators and out of the box into the room. This will stop all heat from heating up the acrylic, pipes and pump. This makes more sense to me because acrylic can crack when it gets too hot, and pumps can fail when they get too hot. Protecting both is wise. This is why the two vent filters, top and bottom, leave a big hole when removed. They are not supposed to be removed, but the two side filters are.
This is such an elegant set up. You could have a tiny case on your desk and hide this in a corner somewhere but still have great cooling. My solution to a case too small for my loop was to get a giant 360x60mm radiator with push-pull fans and quick disconnects and run the wiring along this umbilicus back into my case. It wouldn't be that hard to move the reservoir / pump combo onto a fan mount attached to the radiator as well, if I wanted.
I believe the push pull or single direction flow would produce the results you stated by heating up one rad over the benefit of the other. The double intake is a good idea too, but I believe the increased air pressure within the box would reduce the capabilities of the fans. Sure there are upper and lower exhaust, but the performance is based on how efficiently it can exhaust the air. Especially with high performing fans. For me, I would make them both exhaust so that either radiator would constantly receive cooler or room temperature air making the lower and upper openings supply similar tempered air for both rads. It creates a vacuum for air draw. The intake would be consistent based on the performance of the fans rather than the ability to alleviate the pressure from the box.
First thought was to have both rads exhausting air but I think cross flow would be slightly better due to sheer airflow. I don't think there will be much, if any, difference blowing through one rad into another, at the end of the day you are removing heat from the same loop, rad's don't add any extra heat to the system.
Both exhaust and both intake have the same problem, restricting the fans. You either build positive or negative pressure inside the case, both of those reduces airflow across the rads. I think one intake one exhaust will perform the best, but I could also see where the three different configurations will all be pretty close in performance. I think all intake would work great with a 140 exhaust up top.
It was interesting to see the amps go up to 1.28 with the side panel on and the fans at max as soon as the side panel was removed it dropped to 1.22. The extra resistance makes the fans work harder. Not a huge jump but cool to see!
I built a relay circuit for my old external water box, and then used a 12v power brick that cost like $15-$20 to power the pump and the fans. The relay was hooked to a USB cable, and then I set the bios to only turn on the USB ports when the system is powered on. I had a bypass switch on the external cooler so I could force the power on if I wanted, but otherwise, when the computer turned on, it turned on the external box (that was behind a wall). Gave me amazing cooling with virtually no sound through the wall and virtually no heat impact in my gaming room since the hot air was in a completely different space that was insulated, and only the tubes and the USB had to go through the wall. It's a SUPER simple build that ran almost perfectly quiet and didn't heat soak the room.
@@elviscera4661Thanks, the USB 5v triggering a 12V relay worked like a champ with the bios configuration change to only turn on USB power when the computer turned on.
I have a single loop, CPU and GPU setup with front and top rads. My loop runs from pump-GPU-CPU-top rad-to front rad and then back to res. The logic for the loop was the air coming through the front rad would basically precool the top rad fluid and then the front rad would further cool the fluid before being dumped back into the res and recycled.
2:54 if I remember Anchorage is used for air cargo as a intermediate stop for fuel (and maybe clearance). Cargo airlines are far more spoke-hub since they rather run the planes with less range for larger cargo payload. I think for CA packages UPS for example actually flies from Anchorage to SoCal, but I’m in WA, and UPS flies from Anchorage to their Worldhub in Louisville Kentucky before flying back to Seattle
Thanks for this one, Jay. I understand why you would want a box for quickly grabbing a ready to go loop, but I think part of the fun for me is making sure my components fit with each other inside the case.
I'd like to see that test video, for sure. I think I'd set them both exhausting outward, that way they're both pulling fresh air in from the top and bottom. But, like you said, it'll take some testing to see which is more efficient. Bet a cross flow ends up being the most efficient way to do it in the long run, however. It might be pumping heated air into the other rad, but I would also be the fastest way to move air through the entire system.
I think cross flow for airflow might be best as well. A rad heating up air flowing into another rad is still removing heat from the same system, it's not adding any extra heat to the system, at least that's what I think
Mine was too. Jay's how to's on this are pretty useful. Having a pair of calipers, CAD software, and knowing how to use them to measure and plan your bends also helps.
would be really nice to see a comparison through this little box for the fan direction options! shouldnt be a lot of work, as it would be just turning the fans around (i hope^^)
Yes! Do that video, it would be cool to see which air flow does better. 2 out of 3 of my computers are water cooled. The only one that isn't is the one for my smart bicycle trainer. Love playing with water cooling stuff. I also never run filters on my computers. I have an air compressor with a water catch, so I just blow them out every 6 months.
Jay, looking at an actual globe you’ll see that the shortest path would be Australia, Alaska then LA. Up and over the arctic circle is a shorter flight than traveling east from Australia to California.
A lot of seeming silly shipping routes have a lot to do with logistics as well... it would be way more inefficient and much more difficult to orchestrate if companies had to make a bunch of point to point shipping routes. Things get shipped from local areas, up to a hub, across to another hub, then down to the recipient's local area.
@@MacroAggressorin this case I believe it would be more for refueling. It’s quite a distance from the southern hemisphere to North America. When I moved from McChord AFB in Washington state to Japan the plane landed in Alaska for refuel before heading over the other side of the globe.
There's a really good reason why they fly via Alaska. Anchorage is a cargo hub and has both big cargo rooms for things to be stored and a big customs checkpoint. Cargo planes also don't have as big fuel tanks as normal passenger airplanes, so they need to refuel more regularly. Cargo planes also don't have that many passengers that might be annoyed at a several day trip to take the extra route that is better for economic reasons for cargo than going across the Pacific Ocean.
This is cool and has lots of potential, I think it will be most efficient with it pulling air in on both sides and exhausting through both ends if any way possible, either by adding feet on bottom or placing it on it's back so it can exhaust through both ends
The way i would use this is with cross flow. But what i would do is something different. The "front" radiator would be the cold coolant one, and the "back" radiator would be the hot coolant. So that way, you have the hot side getting colder air helping it get colder faster
This looks super interesting. Would make water cooling my build a LOT easier. FYI it always goes to Alaska cause believe it or not, it's actually shorter distance to go that way than straight across. Sounds weird, trust me I know, but they actually have a name for it, the Great Circle Route.
I would love that accompanying my ssf build, when I had one. silverstone rz03. I cut it and put 120+240 rads. Then I switched to bq 802. As for air going through multiple radiators... I think as long as the air is cooler than rads, it will never warm them up. At worst the thermal transfer will be less efficient with air warmed by the first rad.
I would say that going to Alaska first allows them to "hug" the coast on most on the travel, so if there are any accidents, they will be easier to find and rescue. Also, alaska is closer to australia than california, so it could be for re-fueling reasons.
If you want an easy way to control the fans, Noctua has a manual pwm generator that is basically an inline fan controller that you could use to control all the fans and the pump. The NA-FC1
I definitely would love to see what options work best. It is kinda an interesting set up. That said I do see a very limited user base for this. Frankly what I would love to see is more well done open and wall mount options done in mind with water cooling though. That is probably the one way I could see this being really interesting is combined with an open air PC set up. I have actually been considering an open system for my next PC and can't decide between bench style or wall mount. The amazing part about this would be that it would get rid of most of the issue of the open PC of the loudness by containing your fans. I just wish it had a way to wall mount it. Seriously that would look damn good wall mounted next to a wall mounted PC, especially if you designed it so you could run the water behind the wall mounted PC and into this from the back. My biggest issue with all the open design computers is they tend to look terrible with water cooling. My other thinking is an open air desk set up that I could use this on one side of the monitor with the P3 on the far side. The monitor should hide the tube run between them and it would look pretty damn sick I think. Not sure how well a D5 would work with that long of a tube run though. Is that something you could test is how well this would work with longer tubes.
I finally remembered that Thermaltake had this idea years ago with the P100 and P200 cases, now granted these were to go with the W100 and W200 cases but it was the same idea of separating the heat extraction components from the computer components. The P (Pedestal) could be mounted to either the top or bottom of the W (Workstation) case, top being the better location, to separate the heat from the computer itself. The could accept up to a 600mm radiator or dual 560mm.
Instead of doing them both as intake I would do them both as exhaust to get a negative pressure going similar to how people do with a lot of sff builds. Then also test it as regular one Intake and one exhaust.
Stuff goes through Alaska because the flat projection of the earth warps flight lines. It’s not that far out of the way and Anchorage is a huge cargo hub. All of the large cargo carriers have massive operations there.
Flights from most countries in Asia will go through Alaska because the plane flies over, or near, the North Pole if that is the shortest distance. No idea why a plane from Australia would fly to Alaska though.
External water cooling is so much more convenient, in my opinion, since you have everything but the blocks outside your system. And it allows you to have as much cooling capacity as you want without being restrained by any particular chassis and internal configuration. And you can change your chassis as well without having to worry about the water cooling setup.
FedEx has an around the world delivery trip that starts/ends in Alaska. I a pilot friend that commutes to Alaska for a ten day trip that drops off / picks up packages for FedEx to Asia . If you measure the trips using great circle routes, the Northwest is not that much further than CA.
yessssss please test the orientations! this is the kinda thing that people get very passionate about but really, I'm not sure many have ever had a chance to test themselves. I'd be super curious to know the results.
Small suggestion towards the "testing limited by radiator"; You could use three 420mm radiators with soft tube connection. So you just quick connect to the test system and start measuring. 😊
Hi Jay! You have third option, both radiators side be exchaust, air in be from bottom or top, even you can add anothers fans on botto and top as intake.
This looks super interesting. The last time I ordered something from Singularity Computers it went to Japan, alaska, LA, NYC, then it made the 4 hours north fom NYC to me.
Australia to LA is actually a shorter flight to go over the pole than over the Pacific Ocean. It's something to do with "great Circles" of something. It's also a lot safer as the trip over the pole as they are always closer to an airport more than the trip over the Pacific.
Top and bottom pulling air in and radiators exhaust facing out. This way, the cooler inside temp helps cool the distraction plate. If possible place rad fans on the outside.
Bring the fluid into the case on the exhuast side, push fluid out of the case on intake side and make flow through. Some heat will dissipate through convection but it will go through the coldest radiator before leaving to pc.
I have the fans of both my front and top rads set to exhaust. Then I flipped my rear 140mm exhaust fan around for intake with a dust filter. I also attached three tiny noctua fans as intake on the back with dust filters. My temps are insanely good with this config. My case is a Corsair Air 540.
There is a reason things go to Alaska, they have a massive handling facility there. And its a constant there where they can easily get to from almost anywhere. Over the pole to the US from Australia to Alaska to Cali pretty easy.,
Jay - as a retired chemical engineer who was an executive project manager for a large engineering firm that did many industrial/refinery projects that used air coolers (think of 25' wide x 200' long), here is my recommendation. Set the air coolers to draw air in from the box and exhaust to the outside. Put the biggest fans you can on the top and bottom of the case to draw air in from the outside and push into the box. Set the intake fans to run twice as fast as the air cooler exhaust fans. This way you always have cool air entering into the air coolers and hot air exhausted to the atmosphere.
I worked with Daniel because I needed a dual Arterial 360 Waterbox, when he only had the OG Arterial 560 Waterbox. It's been a god-send (aka Daniel-send) for my high-powered, water-cooled HTPC. Use an HDPLEX 200W DC-ATX banned PSU powering everything, using a Koolance ExosV2 control board/PSU Trigger and an Aquero handling everything headless. Two push/pull 60mm thick rads with no internal components like PSU, PCIe, GPUs, etc to cause airflow turbulence passing right through. It's actually incredibly quiet... It's the bee's god damn knees.
I would personally have the fans blowing into the box and cause a positive pressure venting out of the top and bottom. Added bonus is in winter if you have it on your desk the exhaust out the bottom will help keep your hands warm.
I dont think positive pressure matters as much here when compared to a pc case, there are not other intakes than the filtered one on the top and bottom and I dont see any other holes/gaps.
3:00 alaska is the same distance or closer from asia, so it's a drop off / stop over / refueling hub. Like, from Melbourne to Anchorage is 7'770 miles, Melbourne to LAX is 7'967 miles, and most other stops after LAX are going to be east bound, so they stop at the nearer destination, head southeast, continue east, rather than go to LAX, go backwards (northwest against the jet stream), then east again.
Yes, please do that video about radiator direction. I have a friend who is constantly trying to do weird fan layouts to get outside air on his CPU and GPU rads (for a dual AIO system) and he doesn't believe me when I tell him it doesn't matter and he should just do the best layout for airflow.
I think going with a horizontal push from one side and pull from the other would get you greater air speed (which would in turn affect the heat exchange rate), while pushing in from both sides is going to waste energy on turbulence even if you have a top-mounted exit fan. You should definitely try it both ways and report the results.
Alaska is a direct market so there are many shipments coming in from all over the world. When I was there in the 80's there were many thing from all over the world that you could not get in the lower 48 states. It is mainly because nothing is made in Alaska everything is shipped in even food.
You should test not only push pull config, but the order in which the radiators are. If the first one in the loop is the one taking air from the inside it may perform better.
I personally would love that video because there are always scenarios where it isnt black and white one right way. I might learn something with you testing fan configurations on this box. Personally I think both intakes will perform best and exhaust from positive pressure, but it would be fun to see the differences
That's crazy. 2 months ago I was looking at the market trying to find a water box and no one had one except from this one company that wanted $800 for it, I ended up building one using two hardware labs xflow 420 mm rads. It was the best thing ever and I also don't have to worry when I choose a new case because just to have to install my pass-through bracket and some water blocks and we're off to the races
Got to admit the very first thought that came to mind when i saw the waterbox was OMG itx-case with distro-plate!! And now i can't get that idea out of my head and i want an itx-case with a distro-plate.
Shipping goes to Alaska for customs and sorting. Land is cheaper up there so they can have a hub there cheaper, and then send planes out across the lower 48.
This is basically what i done with a thermaltake tower900 the front chamber is a2.5 gallon aquarium as the res. feeding 2 d5 pumps and 2 alphacool monstra 480 rads in the back and 8 noctua fans on the rads. The cooling rower feeds 2 pcs 1 which is my workstation pc and the other is my gaming pc. Temps are always very very stable and its generally pretty quiet..
Regarding fan installation (just my two cents :-)) : put the case on a higher stand and set all fans to exhaust. It will drag cool air from top and bottom and press it through the rads. Cheers from Austria!
I'd like to see the configuration testing video for sure. I'd also love to see Jay do a water cooled small form factor build with quick disconnects where all the guts were in this enclosure.
Rads on both sides drawing in and exhaust fans top and bottom (if there's room), or reverse it with intake fans top and bottom and exhaust out through radiator fans. You might end up with negative pressure but more total airflow, and without circulating hot air into the case.
The radiator pulling air in will not have a negative effect on the exhaust. Basically, the temperature difference should cancel each other out. The reason for this is that the first radiator cools the water down. Therefore, the water going to the second (intake) radiator would be colder, thus needing less cool air to cool it down. With that, even if that air heats up, it should be around the same temperature if not cooler than the first (exhaust) radiator.
you should do a video on testing the difference in fan orientations and do like opposing crossflow so for example both tops fans would be pulling air to left and both bottoms would pull to the right giving even amount of cold and hot air between both rads
I'd do intake on one side and the bottom, exhaust on the other side and leave the top open. That should give the "front" rad fresh cool air and the "rear" rad would get a higher volume of mixed air to play with. I feel like it could give 0.002% better efficiency
Masters in mechanical engineering: Ideally if one rad is an intake and one is an exhaust, then the liquid leaving the components would first go through the exhaust rad for initial cooling. Then the initially cooled liquid would go through the rad getting supplied with fresh air. This is based on the concept of counter flow heat exchangers.
So you mean first cool the hotter water 'a little' with the hot rad, and then finish off the cooling of the 'pre-cooled' fluid by moving it through the colder rad. That's good thinking!
That's what I was thinking, thank you.
I was thinking the same thing, with cross flow cooling. Seems like that would give maximum air flow without the fans working against each other.
Have worked in the chemical industry for the last 15 years or so and what you have described is basic heat exchanger principles. Have helped design a couple shell/tube exchangers myself and what you are describing will probanly give the best efficency for heat disapation. It will still depend alot on air exchange rates though. All my experience is with fluid to fluid heat transfer not so much air/fluid. Would love to see the testing on the different configurations.
Duh
This is common sense
Definitely do that video! Then have Nick 3D print some fan adapter plates and mount an exhaust fan up top to assist pulling/pushing air out.
It would be interesting to test it in a number of configurations. I would think the best way would actually be PUSH-PUSH. Let the top and bottom mesh provide intakes of cold air into the box, and push that cold air out through the rads. It seems like those two vents would be enough.
Yeah, that's what I figure as well. But I'd love him to test all 3 configs.
i was going to suggest this too
It doesn't look like the case supports it but seems like being able to put fans on the top and bottom would make it better either way so your not just counting on pos/neg pressure.
Same thoughts here, but I also feel like, all things being equal, the temp differences would be marginal, potentially slightly cooler with a cross flow due to the sheer airflow. It just seems like there would be some sort of equilibrium regardless of whether you have fresh intake air to both rads or blow through one into the other, much like how order of components in a loop don't make a difference...
I absolutely would go push on the rads, and if needed I would want the "rear" plexiglass replaced with a mesh filter.
Living in Anchorage, there's two reasons so much air cargo passes through Alaska. The first is it's actually a shorter flight than flying to LA, San Francisco, or even Seattle. The second reason is that it's significantly cheaper to fly into Anchorage or even Fairbanks because the landing fees charged to the airlines are less. UPS and FedEx both have big hubs here, as does Amazon Air.
Also, that route stays a lot closer to land, which is handy given contemporary aviation maintenance. To be fair, it was a good idea when aircraft were a lot more reliable.
" The first is it's actually a shorter flight than flying to LA, San Francisco, or even Seattle."
The "Great Circle." 🙂 It's always the shortest path. Radio waves behave the same way.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
I have filters on my system as well. They're the really fine mesh silverstone filters that almost look like silk. I actually find it way easier just to suck them off with a vacuum and a brush attachment. No screws, no removal. I built my system in 2015 and the inside is still clean.
I also just vacuum my filters. The dirt is on the outside so why not just use a vacuum to suck it off from the outside! :D if doing it regularly it wont build up enough to get inside.
At least it will never get blue balled.
If you look at a globe instead of a map, Alaska is basically right in between Asia and the rest of North America, so it makes perfect sense as a shipping hub.
In addition, flying over open ocean is actually considered rather dangerous. Both passenger and cargo airlines prefer to either hug the coast or island hop to always minimize the distance to the nearest safe landing site.
If a plane has a problem, it's better to be able to land quickly and fix it than to end up with an anthropomorphic soccer ball as a best friend.
It is a substantially shorter distance to go first to Alaska and then LA. 99% Cant wrap their head around it because of the scale and type of maps that are mainstream
It's a perfekt stright line if you look at it on Flat Earth map .
And thet makes mutch more sens .
@@Timmytimmy707Look at an actual real map of the world and it'll make even more sense.
@@Timmytimmy707 🤣
I would say the split flow (All fans exhausting) might be the easiest way to create the cooling, as long as you have enough passive intake to keep fresh air for the fans to pull from.
However, another option that would really work nice, is have it a cross flow (1 set intake, the other exhaust), but have the exhaust radiator be the first part of water flow (to begin the cooling), and then have it go through the intake radiator (to get the freshest air for the final cooling).
I say totally geek out on it! Positive flow VS negative flow as well as cross flow
Personally, I would have cool air come in through the top and bottom vents so it can go through the radiators and out of the box into the room. This will stop all heat from heating up the acrylic, pipes and pump. This makes more sense to me because acrylic can crack when it gets too hot, and pumps can fail when they get too hot. Protecting both is wise. This is why the two vent filters, top and bottom, leave a big hole when removed. They are not supposed to be removed, but the two side filters are.
This is such an elegant set up. You could have a tiny case on your desk and hide this in a corner somewhere but still have great cooling. My solution to a case too small for my loop was to get a giant 360x60mm radiator with push-pull fans and quick disconnects and run the wiring along this umbilicus back into my case. It wouldn't be that hard to move the reservoir / pump combo onto a fan mount attached to the radiator as well, if I wanted.
I believe the push pull or single direction flow would produce the results you stated by heating up one rad over the benefit of the other. The double intake is a good idea too, but I believe the increased air pressure within the box would reduce the capabilities of the fans. Sure there are upper and lower exhaust, but the performance is based on how efficiently it can exhaust the air. Especially with high performing fans. For me, I would make them both exhaust so that either radiator would constantly receive cooler or room temperature air making the lower and upper openings supply similar tempered air for both rads. It creates a vacuum for air draw. The intake would be consistent based on the performance of the fans rather than the ability to alleviate the pressure from the box.
First thought was to have both rads exhausting air but I think cross flow would be slightly better due to sheer airflow. I don't think there will be much, if any, difference blowing through one rad into another, at the end of the day you are removing heat from the same loop, rad's don't add any extra heat to the system.
Both exhaust and both intake have the same problem, restricting the fans. You either build positive or negative pressure inside the case, both of those reduces airflow across the rads.
I think one intake one exhaust will perform the best, but I could also see where the three different configurations will all be pretty close in performance. I think all intake would work great with a 140 exhaust up top.
Yes Yes Yes to doing more videos around this waterbox!
What I like about this is you can keep your beautiful system right up on your desk where you can look at it, but move the heat and noise away
It was interesting to see the amps go up to 1.28 with the side panel on and the fans at max as soon as the side panel was removed it dropped to 1.22. The extra resistance makes the fans work harder. Not a huge jump but cool to see!
I built a relay circuit for my old external water box, and then used a 12v power brick that cost like $15-$20 to power the pump and the fans. The relay was hooked to a USB cable, and then I set the bios to only turn on the USB ports when the system is powered on. I had a bypass switch on the external cooler so I could force the power on if I wanted, but otherwise, when the computer turned on, it turned on the external box (that was behind a wall). Gave me amazing cooling with virtually no sound through the wall and virtually no heat impact in my gaming room since the hot air was in a completely different space that was insulated, and only the tubes and the USB had to go through the wall. It's a SUPER simple build that ran almost perfectly quiet and didn't heat soak the room.
Using a relay to power on a relay to power on the separate power supply is a nice idea, better than just a power strip.
@@elviscera4661Thanks, the USB 5v triggering a 12V relay worked like a champ with the bios configuration change to only turn on USB power when the computer turned on.
For your test bed, how about dual intake, but remove the front glass. Or replace the front glass with mesh
I have a single loop, CPU and GPU setup with front and top rads. My loop runs from pump-GPU-CPU-top rad-to front rad and then back to res. The logic for the loop was the air coming through the front rad would basically precool the top rad fluid and then the front rad would further cool the fluid before being dumped back into the res and recycled.
2:54 if I remember Anchorage is used for air cargo as a intermediate stop for fuel (and maybe clearance). Cargo airlines are far more spoke-hub since they rather run the planes with less range for larger cargo payload. I think for CA packages UPS for example actually flies from Anchorage to SoCal, but I’m in WA, and UPS flies from Anchorage to their Worldhub in Louisville Kentucky before flying back to Seattle
Yes, compare different airflow. Like server racks in a data center.
Thanks for this one, Jay. I understand why you would want a box for quickly grabbing a ready to go loop, but I think part of the fun for me is making sure my components fit with each other inside the case.
of course we want you to do that video! educational videos sprinkled in are always welcome
I use a shop vac mini to clean my filters attached. Plus it doesn't blow it all over the place.🤔🤔 Work smarter not harder.😉😉
I'd like to see that test video, for sure. I think I'd set them both exhausting outward, that way they're both pulling fresh air in from the top and bottom. But, like you said, it'll take some testing to see which is more efficient. Bet a cross flow ends up being the most efficient way to do it in the long run, however. It might be pumping heated air into the other rad, but I would also be the fastest way to move air through the entire system.
I think cross flow for airflow might be best as well. A rad heating up air flowing into another rad is still removing heat from the same system, it's not adding any extra heat to the system, at least that's what I think
My toxic trait is thinking my first build ever is going to have a custom straight line water cooling loop
I don't see why that wouldn't be possible. If you take care of it you'll be fine
Yep, my first was a hard line custom build. It worked great, I'm collecting parts for my next build.
Mine was too. Jay's how to's on this are pretty useful. Having a pair of calipers, CAD software, and knowing how to use them to measure and plan your bends also helps.
@alexandrumihailescu2252 because it can nearly 2x or 3x the price of your build depending on the specs 😂
That’s why my second build was
would be really nice to see a comparison through this little box for the fan direction options!
shouldnt be a lot of work, as it would be just turning the fans around (i hope^^)
+1 for the flow testing of cross vs all intake. That is a common argument I get into with case layout between my coworkers and me.
Yes! Do that video, it would be cool to see which air flow does better. 2 out of 3 of my computers are water cooled. The only one that isn't is the one for my smart bicycle trainer. Love playing with water cooling stuff. I also never run filters on my computers. I have an air compressor with a water catch, so I just blow them out every 6 months.
Yes! Definitely want to see the difference with different fan configurations
Jay, looking at an actual globe you’ll see that the shortest path would be Australia, Alaska then LA. Up and over the arctic circle is a shorter flight than traveling east from Australia to California.
A lot of seeming silly shipping routes have a lot to do with logistics as well... it would be way more inefficient and much more difficult to orchestrate if companies had to make a bunch of point to point shipping routes. Things get shipped from local areas, up to a hub, across to another hub, then down to the recipient's local area.
It’s called the great circle route. Which indeed is the shortest route to take. 👍🏻
@@MacroAggressorin this case I believe it would be more for refueling. It’s quite a distance from the southern hemisphere to North America. When I moved from McChord AFB in Washington state to Japan the plane landed in Alaska for refuel before heading over the other side of the globe.
@@tomharvey7258you got it. 😊
@@douglashornick4388 Good point.
Pretty cool! looking forward to the next follow up vid.
I agree both pushing out and pulling from the filters for fresh air
I liked seeing the powersupply increase the power draw when the side panel was added when the fans were on high setting.
Singularity needs to make a case that circulates thermal paste because it cools way better than water does.
There's a really good reason why they fly via Alaska. Anchorage is a cargo hub and has both big cargo rooms for things to be stored and a big customs checkpoint. Cargo planes also don't have as big fuel tanks as normal passenger airplanes, so they need to refuel more regularly. Cargo planes also don't have that many passengers that might be annoyed at a several day trip to take the extra route that is better for economic reasons for cargo than going across the Pacific Ocean.
This is cool and has lots of potential, I think it will be most efficient with it pulling air in on both sides and exhausting through both ends if any way possible, either by adding feet on bottom or placing it on it's back so it can exhaust through both ends
The way i would use this is with cross flow. But what i would do is something different. The "front" radiator would be the cold coolant one, and the "back" radiator would be the hot coolant. So that way, you have the hot side getting colder air helping it get colder faster
This looks super interesting. Would make water cooling my build a LOT easier. FYI it always goes to Alaska cause believe it or not, it's actually shorter distance to go that way than straight across. Sounds weird, trust me I know, but they actually have a name for it, the Great Circle Route.
I would love that accompanying my ssf build, when I had one. silverstone rz03. I cut it and put 120+240 rads. Then I switched to bq 802.
As for air going through multiple radiators... I think as long as the air is cooler than rads, it will never warm them up. At worst the thermal transfer will be less efficient with air warmed by the first rad.
LOOK AT THEIR POWERBOARD!!! I just visited their website and it's amazing! I'd love one!!
I would say that going to Alaska first allows them to "hug" the coast on most on the travel, so if there are any accidents, they will be easier to find and rescue.
Also, alaska is closer to australia than california, so it could be for re-fueling reasons.
If you want an easy way to control the fans, Noctua has a manual pwm generator that is basically an inline fan controller that you could use to control all the fans and the pump. The NA-FC1
I definitely would love to see what options work best. It is kinda an interesting set up. That said I do see a very limited user base for this. Frankly what I would love to see is more well done open and wall mount options done in mind with water cooling though. That is probably the one way I could see this being really interesting is combined with an open air PC set up.
I have actually been considering an open system for my next PC and can't decide between bench style or wall mount. The amazing part about this would be that it would get rid of most of the issue of the open PC of the loudness by containing your fans. I just wish it had a way to wall mount it. Seriously that would look damn good wall mounted next to a wall mounted PC, especially if you designed it so you could run the water behind the wall mounted PC and into this from the back. My biggest issue with all the open design computers is they tend to look terrible with water cooling.
My other thinking is an open air desk set up that I could use this on one side of the monitor with the P3 on the far side. The monitor should hide the tube run between them and it would look pretty damn sick I think. Not sure how well a D5 would work with that long of a tube run though. Is that something you could test is how well this would work with longer tubes.
I finally remembered that Thermaltake had this idea years ago with the P100 and P200 cases, now granted these were to go with the W100 and W200 cases but it was the same idea of separating the heat extraction components from the computer components.
The P (Pedestal) could be mounted to either the top or bottom of the W (Workstation) case, top being the better location, to separate the heat from the computer itself. The could accept up to a 600mm radiator or dual 560mm.
Instead of doing them both as intake I would do them both as exhaust to get a negative pressure going similar to how people do with a lot of sff builds. Then also test it as regular one Intake and one exhaust.
I’ve been running an Active Aqua water chiller for going on 2 months now. Game changing not having radiators temps are amazing.
Stuff goes through Alaska because the flat projection of the earth warps flight lines. It’s not that far out of the way and Anchorage is a huge cargo hub. All of the large cargo carriers have massive operations there.
Yes it would be awesome to see the difference in temps with different radiator setups!!!!
Flights from most countries in Asia will go through Alaska because the plane flies over, or near, the North Pole if that is the shortest distance. No idea why a plane from Australia would fly to Alaska though.
External water cooling is so much more convenient, in my opinion, since you have everything but the blocks outside your system. And it allows you to have as much cooling capacity as you want without being restrained by any particular chassis and internal configuration. And you can change your chassis as well without having to worry about the water cooling setup.
FedEx has an around the world delivery trip that starts/ends in Alaska. I a pilot friend that commutes to Alaska for a ten day trip that drops off / picks up packages for FedEx to Asia . If you measure the trips using great circle routes, the Northwest is not that much further than CA.
yessssss please test the orientations! this is the kinda thing that people get very passionate about but really, I'm not sure many have ever had a chance to test themselves. I'd be super curious to know the results.
Must be time for case manufacturers to put the grommets back into the back of the cases like they use to for external use.
Small suggestion towards the "testing limited by radiator"; You could use three 420mm radiators with soft tube connection. So you just quick connect to the test system and start measuring. 😊
Run both sides to push out and draw your cool air from top & bottom.
So bring cool air in and all heat out.
100%. I. Need. Tests!!!! Really though, it would be cool to see the dynamics of the thermals across different set ups.
Definitely down for the video on the radiators affecting each other; I have some theories, but I would definitely love to see the results.
Hi Jay! You have third option, both radiators side be exchaust, air in be from bottom or top, even you can add anothers fans on botto and top as intake.
This looks super interesting. The last time I ordered something from Singularity Computers it went to Japan, alaska, LA, NYC, then it made the 4 hours north fom NYC to me.
Australia to LA is actually a shorter flight to go over the pole than over the Pacific Ocean. It's something to do with "great Circles" of something.
It's also a lot safer as the trip over the pole as they are always closer to an airport more than the trip over the Pacific.
Top and bottom pulling air in and radiators exhaust facing out. This way, the cooler inside temp helps cool the distraction plate. If possible place rad fans on the outside.
Seeing the comparative test between both orientations of the coolers would be awesome to see.
Bring the fluid into the case on the exhuast side, push fluid out of the case on intake side and make flow through. Some heat will dissipate through convection but it will go through the coldest radiator before leaving to pc.
@JaysTwoCents 3 mins in.......The earth isn't flat only the map is, love you guyz!
I have the fans of both my front and top rads set to exhaust. Then I flipped my rear 140mm exhaust fan around for intake with a dust filter. I also attached three tiny noctua fans as intake on the back with dust filters. My temps are insanely good with this config. My case is a Corsair Air 540.
There is a reason things go to Alaska, they have a massive handling facility there. And its a constant there where they can easily get to from almost anywhere. Over the pole to the US from Australia to Alaska to Cali pretty easy.,
Hope everything is going well Jay. Thanks for continuing to put out content.
Jay - as a retired chemical engineer who was an executive project manager for a large engineering firm that did many industrial/refinery projects that used air coolers (think of 25' wide x 200' long), here is my recommendation. Set the air coolers to draw air in from the box and exhaust to the outside. Put the biggest fans you can on the top and bottom of the case to draw air in from the outside and push into the box. Set the intake fans to run twice as fast as the air cooler exhaust fans. This way you always have cool air entering into the air coolers and hot air exhausted to the atmosphere.
I worked with Daniel because I needed a dual Arterial 360 Waterbox, when he only had the OG Arterial 560 Waterbox. It's been a god-send (aka Daniel-send) for my high-powered, water-cooled HTPC. Use an HDPLEX 200W DC-ATX banned PSU powering everything, using a Koolance ExosV2 control board/PSU Trigger and an Aquero handling everything headless. Two push/pull 60mm thick rads with no internal components like PSU, PCIe, GPUs, etc to cause airflow turbulence passing right through. It's actually incredibly quiet... It's the bee's god damn knees.
I would personally have the fans blowing into the box and cause a positive pressure venting out of the top and bottom. Added bonus is in winter if you have it on your desk the exhaust out the bottom will help keep your hands warm.
I dont think positive pressure matters as much here when compared to a pc case, there are not other intakes than the filtered one on the top and bottom and I dont see any other holes/gaps.
The unravel was marvelous.
Yes Jay, go for all scenarios.
This would be cool to see done with fans in passthrough, all positive and all negative pressure to see if there is any difference on temps
I would Allow the intake be the top and and bottom, and set the fans to blow out through the radiators. That way it's always cool air coming in.
I would do pull, pull, so cool air comes from top and bottom trough the rads and out the two side, make the video very cool 👍
3:00 alaska is the same distance or closer from asia, so it's a drop off / stop over / refueling hub. Like, from Melbourne to Anchorage is 7'770 miles, Melbourne to LAX is 7'967 miles, and most other stops after LAX are going to be east bound, so they stop at the nearer destination, head southeast, continue east, rather than go to LAX, go backwards (northwest against the jet stream), then east again.
Yes, please do that video about radiator direction. I have a friend who is constantly trying to do weird fan layouts to get outside air on his CPU and GPU rads (for a dual AIO system) and he doesn't believe me when I tell him it doesn't matter and he should just do the best layout for airflow.
I think going with a horizontal push from one side and pull from the other would get you greater air speed (which would in turn affect the heat exchange rate), while pushing in from both sides is going to waste energy on turbulence even if you have a top-mounted exit fan.
You should definitely try it both ways and report the results.
Alaska is a direct market so there are many shipments coming in from all over the world. When I was there in the 80's there were many thing from all over the world that you could not get in the lower 48 states. It is mainly because nothing is made in Alaska everything is shipped in even food.
Yes I would love to see a video like that, where you show how different orientations effect cooling
You should test not only push pull config, but the order in which the radiators are. If the first one in the loop is the one taking air from the inside it may perform better.
best idea i've seen to keep the heat out of the pc case , cool any cpu or gpu .. nice !
Love to see the different orientations video! Great work asd always Jay!
I personally would love that video because there are always scenarios where it isnt black and white one right way. I might learn something with you testing fan configurations on this box. Personally I think both intakes will perform best and exhaust from positive pressure, but it would be fun to see the differences
That's crazy. 2 months ago I was looking at the market trying to find a water box and no one had one except from this one company that wanted $800 for it, I ended up building one using two hardware labs xflow 420 mm rads. It was the best thing ever and I also don't have to worry when I choose a new case because just to have to install my pass-through bracket and some water blocks and we're off to the races
Yes, to the two rad tests. Just remember to block the vents to prevent fresh air from coming from the top and bottom.
Got to admit the very first thought that came to mind when i saw the waterbox was OMG itx-case with distro-plate!! And now i can't get that idea out of my head and i want an itx-case with a distro-plate.
Shipping goes to Alaska for customs and sorting. Land is cheaper up there so they can have a hub there cheaper, and then send planes out across the lower 48.
for the Alaska part; its because Alaska has a MASSIVE shipping/freight/flight hub that can be utilized before sending to the rest of the USA/CAN
Perfect way to test your ac cooling. Put your ac to the top as intake and exhaust out the radiators
Do the fan permutation video please!
This is basically what i done with a thermaltake tower900 the front chamber is a2.5 gallon aquarium as the res. feeding 2 d5 pumps and 2 alphacool monstra 480 rads in the back and 8 noctua fans on the rads. The cooling rower feeds 2 pcs 1 which is my workstation pc and the other is my gaming pc. Temps are always very very stable and its generally pretty quiet..
Regarding fan installation (just my two cents :-)) : put the case on a higher stand and set all fans to exhaust. It will drag cool air from top and bottom and press it through the rads. Cheers from Austria!
I'd like to see the configuration testing video for sure. I'd also love to see Jay do a water cooled small form factor build with quick disconnects where all the guts were in this enclosure.
Rads on both sides drawing in and exhaust fans top and bottom (if there's room), or reverse it with intake fans top and bottom and exhaust out through radiator fans. You might end up with negative pressure but more total airflow, and without circulating hot air into the case.
The radiator pulling air in will not have a negative effect on the exhaust.
Basically, the temperature difference should cancel each other out.
The reason for this is that the first radiator cools the water down. Therefore, the water going to the second (intake) radiator would be colder, thus needing less cool air to cool it down.
With that, even if that air heats up, it should be around the same temperature if not cooler than the first (exhaust) radiator.
My guess would be IN from top and bottom, then OUT from both rads on the side.
The fan orientation video is a great idea Jay!
you should do a video on testing the difference in fan orientations and do like opposing crossflow so for example both tops fans would be pulling air to left and both bottoms would pull to the right giving even amount of cold and hot air between both rads
I'd do intake on one side and the bottom, exhaust on the other side and leave the top open. That should give the "front" rad fresh cool air and the "rear" rad would get a higher volume of mixed air to play with. I feel like it could give 0.002% better efficiency
yes please do the different fan orientations to find out which is most effecient! glhf fam!