why do SMT fans care SO MUCH about Persona comparisons? Persona is a good series, and its popular, its hardly a bad thing to be compared to. SMT fans are actually allergic to success
@@naboume466 gameplay, art style, direction. P3R was made for people to jump from p5 to P3, if you look at the criticism of the game, the harshest one are OG P3 fans lamenting how some of the most idiocincratic elements of P3 were removed in favor of P5s
I always get a special tingle in my heart when JohneAwesome sits down and releases a serious discussion video, like a parent sitting you down for an important talk
Wait till the hood finds out they made 4 WHOLE PERSONA GAMES before persona 5 🙏😭 Guys please I understand persona 2 is a duology, if we wanted to be technical persona 5 has a direct sequel in strikers, and a bout a dozen spinoffs, same with 4. I was just generalizing the number of numbered games-
regardless of the actual differences in the minutia, the superficial persona comparisons are something atlus definitely wants just so the game sells. hoping it's good, i didn't care much in the project re:fantasy days but i've been seriously looking forward to it since the first proper trailer dropped.
@@Kaisona2017 Because at the end of the day their target audience is first and foremost Japan, meaning titles will be taking the side of what sounds cool to the Japanese ear, not to foreigners' with wildly different opinions.
I dunno man. If you can cast tarukaja in a press turn battle... It might be a megaten. I think Atlas wants us to respect this as its own brand, but it's definitely wearing it's SMT lineage on its sleeve
I think Atlus becoming really famous because of Persona 5 was both a blessing and a curse. Every game they make now is going to be called or compared to * recent Persona game * even if it's very different etc.
It is never a curse, P3R did better than P5 and was a remake. It is only a good thing, people just say this due to being new in the series and Persona 6 has yet to happen.
I consider it a curse. I was called an ATLUS fanboy since the PS days because I would spend hundreds of hours on games like Kartia and Thousand Arms, but now all ATLUS does is pump out Persona clones because it's successful and makes them money.
I played the demo and to me it looks like something in-between Persona and SMT. Less conversations/world/interactions more fighting, but not SMT where you do nothing but fight 90% of the game.
I feel like there's absolutely MORE world/interactions than persona tbh. The amount of people in the main city alone I talked to or tuned in to a convo was staggering. Made the entire place feel alive and the atmosphere was peak.
I dunno, I feel like this is arguing against a stance that barely exists, people can and will call the game stuff like “Medieval Persona” because that’s the easiest way to convey and sell a general audience on the game rather than saying “a new original medieval Atlus RPG that has familiar elements to past titles”, they’re not really literal when they say it
There are people that believe it's an actual constructive criticism saying that "this game feels too much like Persona" when that doesn't explain or solve anything. Bloodblorne felt like a faster Dark Souls but I still loved it, Elden Ring is a more polished Dark Souls with open world elements yet I still loved the game but people are now pitching a fit about Metaphor
I just think its kinda funny to think about how the game was teased years ago vs its current form They were talking like this game was the logical evolution of the RPG genre, a game that will break conventions and be revolutionary in its niche. And comes the first trailer, Persona calendar system and social sim elements Of course everything is distinct, of course theres major differences, but we still got a game with soejima monsters being summoned by young people that that the protagonists can created deeper bods with to fight demons with a calendar system and a system based on exploting elemental weakness Its not like, a bad thing or anything but the buildup to the game if you been there from day one was a little hyperbolic based on what they actually ended up making
Idk why people always think the major release from atlus has to be in the megaten universe hahaha their interviews and magazine articles has multiple times when they say it’s not a megaten🎉 but a long hour of Johne is a blessing ❤❤❤❤
Not to make more Persona comparisons, but halfway through this video, I realized that Metaphor's MC looks like Aigis and P3's MC (somehow) had a kid and I can't unsee it now...😂
thanks for spreading awareness on this issue. detractors are having a field day trying to smother this game's success because it's unfortunately very easy to do so in a game that's 100+ hours with trailers that don't even show the tip of the iceberg as to prevent spoilers. i hope enough people get to talking about this game's differences so that people won't continue to jump to conclusions. the demo releasing today will surely help sway people over.
I love the Persona games but Metaphor is a direct response to my main issue with Persona games, which is having 1 day of combat and 29 days of school. In Metaphor, YOU choose what to do and when. The weakness mechanic is actually tactical, where it doesnt end the current turn and halves a future turn, thus if u can get 3 crits or weak hits, then u have doubled ur turns to 6, BUT only if u do it tactically, as if u mess up by say accidentally passing on a half turn, that turn is wasted. Then the Archetype system allows ALL party members to change their "persona"? That is crazy! Teammates are no longer confined to their specific role that Atlas has locked them into. Metaphor is similar enough to Persona, that it is familiar and easy to pick up and play, but there r so many differences that make it unique. Its more tactical and doesn't have the drawn out school sections; Metaphor is my dream Persona game.
"The Persona-like." It takes mechanics from both SMT and Persona. Game review, "try not to bring up any persona-similiarities" challenge. IGN Reviewer/journalist: 😰😰😰
There's honestly even a bit of Etrian Odyssey in there, though not much. But ofc any game with a remote semblance to Persona is compared to Persona. Even SMT gets compared to Persona. It’s like no other turn based JRPG exists.
I have been playing the demo and I absolutely love it. My favorite game of all time was p5/p5r but so far Metaphor has completely blown it out of the water for me. I think the story is much better, and as you said I like how proactive you are. The characters are all really interesting so far. I love that the protagonist is voiced in important cut scenes like the other characters. To me I think they took the amazing work they did on games like P5/P5R and made them even better and added a bunch of new stuff. I love the Archetype system so much more than the Persona system because it gives you a lot more control regarding your teammates and how you all work together, I also like that it is simpler than the persona system as there are less of them but from what I have seen do a much better job of differentiating each archetype from each other where Personas all feel mostly the same and very limited even though there are so many more of them.
Atlus didn’t do much to differentiate this game from Persona in their marketing, but it's almost an incredulous situation as it is that doing so even feels necessary. I mean, sure, if Persona were the first turn based JRPG of its kind ever and the genre had very few games, yeah everything else would feel like a clone of it due to lack of variety...but it's not? It's battle mechanics were derivative of another Atlus IP from its very inception (it eventually did other things to set itself apart), but nobody calls Persona games SMT clones...in fact they damn near called SMTV a Persona clone instead. Next you'll tell me every shooter ever made is just Fortnite, and all foods are bread.
You know, the first thing that came to my mind was when John brought up proactive time manage while working around a calendar as a time limit...was the older Atelier games. Be late for your boat ride and fuck up your entire run unless you reload an older save, good times...
i would never consider smt to be persona clones, but smtV took quite a few things from persona, not saying it borrowed but more of modernised alongside persona
It seems that a lot of people did not watch the promotional material for metaphor. Katsura hashino himself states that metaphor uses the press turn system and has a bond system like persona. It's weird seeing comments that are phrased as if the similarities were something atlus was trying to hide lol.
Mataphor looks like a fusion between SMT, Persona, fuga: melodies of steel, a pinch of warriors combat, A Job Style system, and all made with watercolor paintings. I am so into this.
It gets mechanics from other smaller atlus series as well like etrian odyssey (formations and the classes) and Digital Devil saga (team skills that take up more than 1 turn, + archetypes are more similar to dds demon transformations than personas) Its basically the fusion of ALL atlus series + a few unique things, its Absolute peak
While persona 4 was my first persona game and first M rated game when I was 12 and has remained my favorite of both persona and SMT I am a fan of both and have played and beaten most of them and I have to say SMT 5 Vengeance is a close second it’s my dream to one day help everyone experience the joys of persona 4 and the rest of the persona and SMT series 😊
Persona is rated T in Japan. It's only M because of Mara. Actually, most ATLUS games have a Japanese T raging. Mara is what effs them over in the West.
There's literally an Archetype called "Soul Hacker" Persona exists, is popular, and will be compared to this because obviously. Such a stupid complaint.
Okay, JohnE's "Atlus has always been putting esoteric and fringe elements into their games like Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, cannibalism, sexism, plagiarism..." got a pretty good chuckle out of me lmao.
Having archetypes instead of persona’s gotta be the distinction people draw from this game. Every MegaTen title has the same enemies and this is the only one that doesn’t feature any of them, you can’t tell me it’s a reskin
@@MrOdaddy2011 It's not criticism though. It's just a preference. Anyone who enjoys Persona 5 will enjoy this, those that don't or are tired of it naturally won't. As for myself, I'm incredibly happy they're going a more Persona 5 style approach with this.
When you have a popular product, you have two options: 1) Keep making the same thing, or 2) try to make something different. Continuing to make the same thing is safe and practical, but there's a long-term risk of stagnation (i.e., "copy /paste"). Trying to make something different may alienate customers, who may accuse you of being incompetent, abandoning successful formulas, selling out, ignoring your fanbase, etc. I hope Metaphor strikes a good balance. It seems promising.
I'm really interested that Johne here is dipping his toes into this style of content, it fits his humor really well & honestly it's just a really good video, don't got much more to say than that
I love Persona 5 but have no real interest in playing the rest of the MegaTen franchise. Metaphor however, caught my interest somehow (cause I genuinely don't play RPG's) and after playing a few hours into the Demo, I'm looking forward to it. There's a lot to compare to Persona, but I feel it gives a sense of welcoming familiarity rather than a "Been there done that".
"Here are all the differences... i think since the game aint out yet!" Alot of this is just asking if X system truly will function like persona. Nothing burger imo. Its definetly close enough to each other to warrant comparison imo. I already know ill enjoy it
I think they are deriving from multiple previous releases. The gameplay systems in the actual turn based combat are reminiscent of Digital Devil Saga more than Persona. I haven't played enough Atlus games to give more examples but I'm sure there are. I don't think looking back is that bad if they use that reminiscence to move forward.
I feel like Metafore is the merging of all the best parts of ATLUS's previous works in one game. The press turn battle system from SMT, the slice of life and social side of Persona, the creativity in the world they've always had and hell, even the beta concept for Persona 5. This is ATLUS taking everything that worked from their other games and putting it all into a new IP.
They knew what they were doing, this game is basically the Persona 6 we had been waiting, but now in an interesting setting instead of just another group of students. You have: - Persona awakenings - Press turn battle system with the same affinities as Persona - A "Morgana-like" companion - Bonds - Social stats - Structure of the dungeons like Persona 5 (there are even the save rooms) - Time management - Graphic and menu style very Persona to say the least. And if we're lucky next year we will have Persona 7, I couldn't be happier.
So i think the issue is that people were expecting a wild departure from the usual formula People wanted this to be the 3rd Pillar of Atlus games with Atlus sort leaning more into the comparison (Like they remind you often whose writing the game) I thinks its an issue for some because even the P5 Spin Off titles feel more distinct and those games have the exact same cast from P5 Scrambles Tatica and P5X(yes seriously) feel like a good balance of Persona and there own thing Metaphor in marketing at least isnt making fans feel like this is a new twist on the formula but an old twist with paint Its not the mechanics or even the similar looking protagonist its the vibe Metaphor hasnt given players the feeling that this is meant to be a pillar of Atlus that moving foward Metaphor like SMT will forge a path on its own It feels safe like player will play it enjoy it but it wont set a blaze for more Metaphor
Funny and informative. Thank you. Had to laugh at that point : "I'm running for president, I set my own schedule". You would have sold me on this game right there, if I hadn't preordered it a long time ago.
After playing the whole demo it is persona in a different setting gameplay and mechanics wise it’s v similar the main difference in combat is that you can change party members archetypes and each one is an investment kind of like a job system
I figured there'd be differences, obviously, albeit Atlus' marketing wasn't helping things. I just found it bizarre how they were so insistent on this not being MegaTen when so much of its DNA is blatantly from MegaTen/Persona- moreso than something like Catherine, which constantly gets called MegaTen despite Atlus and some fans' insistence its not. I guess in Atlus' eyes, Metaphor is distinct because it doesn't use the classic demons and it's not set in Japan? It's just strange to me. Regardless, the biggest issue is just Atlus' marketing with this game. I was following it for a bit but they just showed nothing that made it look like the exciting fresh idea they were hyping it up as for so many years. I don't think it looks bad, per se, but I felt no inclination to keep up with it or save up for it so I can buy it right away. I think they were trying to play it safe with the marketing, make casual fans go "oh so it's like p5 that's sick i'm gonna get it" but it's kinda backfired for some who are struggling to see what sets it apart from other MegaTen games.
Might be related to Shin Megami Tensei roughly translates to True Goddess Reincarnation, so the demons in every SMT game is the part of the game that objectively makes SMT SMT. Metaphor goes in a different direction where the enemies are more fantastical and take some inspiration from Hieronymus Bosch’s paintings.
@@bradleyhampton7966 while i think the demons are part of it, that's not really why. Firstly, SMT is a pun- the series started with the Digital Devil Story series, with the first novel (and subsequently, the Atlus game adaptation) being Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, named after the central heroine in the story being a reincarnation of the goddess Izanami. While the novels would continue under the Digital Devil Story name, Atlus used the Megami Tensei name for their own followups, and the series has been almost entirely unrelated to the novels since MT2. Shin Megami Tensei was a soft reboot of sorts to emphasize this fact, and the title is a pun- while the literal translation is "True Goddess Reincarnation", Shin is also a common word for "New", which many Japanese SFC games used to denote their SFC entries apart from earlier Famicom entries (think of it sorta like how in the west, many SNES games would slap the name "Super" at the start of the title to denote they were the SNES entries.) Atlus was just following that trend in a cheeky way. The Megami Tensei title has hardly actually had relevance to the theming of the series for a long time, more evident with the fact in Japan most spinoffs of the series didn't even carry the megaten name (something the west didn't have confidence in until Persona 4 Arena Ultimax). Secondly, there are Megaten games where the demons take a backseat or don't appear at all, such as Digital Devil Saga and Tokyo Mirage Sessions. So I don't think people would be confused if they just called Metaphor a Megaten spinoff even without the iconic demons showing up. (Again some people still call Catherine a Megaten spinoff and that's in the same boat)
@@thenightwriter619 I guess that is fair, SMT is more than one element, and it’s all subjective on what feels like SMT what doesn’t. I just want people to give the game a chance because I think it will be a great game. It does share some of SMT’s DNA, but that doesn’t mean it should be overlooked.
After playing the demo they do have a thing where choosing the right dialogue option gives you a bonus but not towards the character’s relationship. They give you bonus currency that you can use for Archetypes
Ngl I thought this video was going to say something like “metaphor is to similar to persona” thank you for doing the opposite i was about to click off after like 10 seconds if I heard something annoying like that. Yes they are completely different like how SMT is now very different from persona. Ugh I hate sometimes how popular p5 is for this reason
I think this is Atlus improving and iterating in a better way of their most successful systems they've used since. It's not all bad when game companies reuse a lot of their assets to produce new stories and worlds to explore in
After playing the demo, I think a lot of it is this exactly and I love it. It has some social elements and calendar progression from Persona, the Press Turn combat and customisable MC from SMT, Archetypes bear some similarities to DDS while also being somewhat unique, then there are otherwise novel elements like the front/back row mechanic, Synthesis skills, overworld action elements etc. (I also like that MC's weapon changes depending on archetype, I haven't seen that since OG P3) All I know is I can't wait for the game to come out and I'm losing patience. I watched nearly 0 pre-release material, but playing the demo really got me hooked. I just need the game to be out now lol.
I played Persona 5 when it came out and it juat wasn't for me. The dependancy on just the Social Links and being made to stay in a single City felt extremely stifling. It got boring so quickly. I love Fantasy as a Genre and the whole "Road Trip" idea is super cool! The Politics idea is also really unique. I'm super excited and the Demo confirmed my interest!
New Atlus fans: Persona 6?? OG Atlus fans: Devil summoner?, Devil Survivor?, Devil children?, Digital Devil Saga?(ok that’s a stretch), new ip?, oh I guess it could be persona related Yes children Atlus used to make games other than persona and SMT
Its not so much an identity crisis as it is a spin off.... They created the UI and style of Persona, which people like and because its their intellectual property, they can experiement with it and try other settings/scenarios if they so choose. I really don't get why a handful of people have a problem with its similarity to Persona, when ther are HORDES of games in other genres similar to each other. How many games look and play like Call of Duty, or Fortnite, or many other titles? Yet for some reason a few people seem to have issue with Atlus using their created style to give something new a try. I think the game is going to be outstanding. And I'd MUCH rather have a game similar to another game I really like, than no game at all or another dime a dozen action rpg. Other series didnt want to be similar to past games, and ended up being lame, like Final Fantasy. Atlus, at least, sticks to their traditional genre and gives turn based classic RPG fans what they want, instead of trying to please everyone and switching to a bargain bin button masher..... Not to mention those who had early hands on time with it say the similarities are superficial at best, and its its own IP more than its not.
I honestly wouldn’t say SMT and Persona are radically different, they are pretty similar. Thematically, they are drastically different. Gameplay wise, they are fairly similar. At least way more than your octopath traveler, Pokemon, or Dragon Quest. So it makes sense Metaphor also looks similar. I get SMT fans desperately want it to be a completely original IP but thats just not gonna happen. Luckily, I would say the differences of Metaphor does equate to rhe difference between SMT and Persona, which is big deal for Atlus fans. But to any normal person, it looks like Persona lul. At the same time, I do appreciate this video because noting the differences is important.
SMT and Persona are very different, basically only combat and fusion are same with minor differences. 90% of persona is social link stuff, 90% of smt is fighting.
Playing the demo: I love it. I am prolonging it so it won't end. 😅. But I can't lie, I find so much familiarity with Persona 5 though. It isn't a negative for me. But come on 😂. But story wise I feel this will be brand new, with twists and turns.
Just finished the demo. Already my GOTY. It does have similarities to Persona of course. But the overall themes, atmosphere, settings and not having a daily routine life is so much different. Looking forward to oct 11 to continue playing
I think this is a problem of any anime like JRPG nowdays, all of them are compared to Persona 5, it seems to be the curse of the game was so good for its time that any future game needs to be compare to it.
Same thing happened to SMT games and complained that is not like persona when SMT is older than Persona, and Persona is a Spin off SMT Usually SMT games are harder games
The demo dropped today, and it is awesome, it has pieces from all their titles and I'm sure there will be new stuff as we get the whole game in a few weeks. This game is going to be EPIC.
Bro I'm excited for this game man. I now a lot of people was introduced when persona 5 so it's easy to try to compare but man a new IP?? I'm so down for Atlus cooking up something new and creative man
This better be good and not flop or I’ll be very disappointed and maybe even angry. The Atlus game fans have been buttering this game up. I’m probably gonna wait a couple weeks after it comes out to see how good it is before I buy, but I think I will and I am excited.
Persona 5 is a very good game not only with the story behind it but the gameplay as well,but with Metaphor Re Fantazio they out done themselves.Wacth out the cat is out of the bag.The big question is will they be able to produce another Great Title after Metaphor and am not talking about Persona 6.
My stupid ass knew nothing about how archetypes work, but now that I do I'm kinda hyped actually. Must play the demo and see the basics for myself. Even if it was like Persona (and it very apparently isn't), I don't really see that being that bad of a thing, as I'd just be expecting Atlus to use the good tried and tested parts of those games and utilize them to great success.
Holy shit Johne this video was FIREEEEEEEEEEE!! i stg some the people bitchin about Metaphor/Persona similarities have played like 1 maybe 2 rpgs in their life D,,,,,,x
I think the one reason I didn't really enjoy the demo of M:RF is simply. I no longer like the fantasy setting. I've grown bored of the fantasy setting as a whole and it's just no longer interesting to me.
You do know they are capable of creating something, that would look WAY different even on the surface level? How about we start actually designing characters, that DO NOT remind us of a certain game that was released in February this year? Main protagonist with a short blue hair, AGAIN, the rest are Mitsuru-elf, Akihiko with horns, fairy Yukari, rabbit Koromaru. This may be a stretch but its eerly similar.
The best comparison for me is DOS 2 and BG3 both games are similar in terms of base but everything else is very different but BG3 took things to the next level and after playing the demo metaphor seems like to be doing just that! It’s absolutely incredible and it really seems like katsura hoshino and his teams are getting the budget and resources that they finally deserve the game is shaping up to be an all time classic.
My biggest issue is there’s no little hand enemies that absolutely bust down to ‘Its Going Down’ during combat. Like… that’s one of the biggest draws to the series for a lot of people and I’m worried how well sales will be if there’s no hand enemies absolutely grooving to ‘babybabybabybabybaby!’
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
Please leave a LIKE so we don't get fifty more P5 spin offs
Sorry I’m still holding out for P5 Arena 😔🙏
why do SMT fans care SO MUCH about Persona comparisons? Persona is a good series, and its popular, its hardly a bad thing to be compared to.
SMT fans are actually allergic to success
When are we gonna get persona six
im dislking so we get more p5 spinoffs because i want more akechi
We’re still missing the Cart racing game
Same people who say any new Atlus game is like Persona 5 would be the same ones who say "is this Final Fantasy?" to every new Square Enix JRPG 💀
Meanwhile Persona 5 fans about SMT5: Its not like Persona 😢
I mean, its Atlus fault, P3R was more P5 than P3
@@diegorojas8959How? what makes P3R more P5 than P3?
@@naboume466 gameplay, art style, direction. P3R was made for people to jump from p5 to P3, if you look at the criticism of the game, the harshest one are OG P3 fans lamenting how some of the most idiocincratic elements of P3 were removed in favor of P5s
@@naboume466 a whole bunch of stuff was added from p5r to p3r. I love p5 and think the og p3s are a bit dated so i enjoyed the changes
I always get a special tingle in my heart when JohneAwesome sits down and releases a serious discussion video, like a parent sitting you down for an important talk
True, they’re some of my favourites
Wait till the hood finds out they made 4 WHOLE PERSONA GAMES before persona 5 🙏😭
Guys please I understand persona 2 is a duology, if we wanted to be technical persona 5 has a direct sequel in strikers, and a bout a dozen spinoffs, same with 4. I was just generalizing the number of numbered games-
AcTuAlLy 🤓 it's 5 games
there are only 2 though? 🤨
???? Persona is extremely popular, all 5 games. This joke makes no sense.
Less people have played SMT 1-5
@@ye9945 I think more people have played SMT 3-5 than persona 1 tbh.
@@rfmerrill Obviously? It’s ancient and has not aged well. It’s also not currently on any official markets.
"You are doing the disturbing" DISTURBING THE PEACE
LOOK INTO MY EYES!!
DON'T YOU MAKE ME
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction DONT YOU MAKE ME DO THIS
If you want to battle, then I’ll take it to the street
FEAR’S AWAKE, ANGER BEATS LOUD, FACE REALITY! NEVER BEAT CHARITY!
regardless of the actual differences in the minutia, the superficial persona comparisons are something atlus definitely wants just so the game sells. hoping it's good, i didn't care much in the project re:fantasy days but i've been seriously looking forward to it since the first proper trailer dropped.
I just don’t get why they made it Refantazio. ReFantasy rolled off the tongue way better. Metaphor: ReFantasy.
@@Kaisona2017 Because at the end of the day their target audience is first and foremost Japan, meaning titles will be taking the side of what sounds cool to the Japanese ear, not to foreigners' with wildly different opinions.
@Kaisona2017 ReFantasy sounds generic unlike ReFantazio
Happy to say, after playing through the prolouge, it is peak
@@Kaisona2017refantazio sounds better, tbh
Arhetypes have much more in common with Etrian Odyssey classes, than Personas or Demons
I think so as well, the tactician in particular reminds me of the sovereign
And Digital Devil Saga (Atma Avatars)
Someon of culture love etrian oddesey
After having played the demo... No they definitely do not
This is more SMT DDS than Persona.
I dunno man. If you can cast tarukaja in a press turn battle... It might be a megaten. I think Atlas wants us to respect this as its own brand, but it's definitely wearing it's SMT lineage on its sleeve
I think Atlus becoming really famous because of Persona 5 was both a blessing and a curse. Every game they make now is going to be called or compared to * recent Persona game * even if it's very different etc.
It is never a curse, P3R did better than P5 and was a remake. It is only a good thing, people just say this due to being new in the series and Persona 6 has yet to happen.
I think there’s fair comparisons to be made as this game is structured pretty much like a persona game. Combat wise it’s DDS
It's the same thing with everybody and their mother comparing everything to dark souls honestly
I consider it a curse. I was called an ATLUS fanboy since the PS days because I would spend hundreds of hours on games like Kartia and Thousand Arms, but now all ATLUS does is pump out Persona clones because it's successful and makes them money.
Like for example that ign review of SMT V
I played the demo and to me it looks like something in-between Persona and SMT. Less conversations/world/interactions more fighting, but not SMT where you do nothing but fight 90% of the game.
I feel like there's absolutely MORE world/interactions than persona tbh. The amount of people in the main city alone I talked to or tuned in to a convo was staggering. Made the entire place feel alive and the atmosphere was peak.
I dunno, I feel like this is arguing against a stance that barely exists, people can and will call the game stuff like “Medieval Persona” because that’s the easiest way to convey and sell a general audience on the game rather than saying “a new original medieval Atlus RPG that has familiar elements to past titles”, they’re not really literal when they say it
There are people that believe it's an actual constructive criticism saying that "this game feels too much like Persona" when that doesn't explain or solve anything. Bloodblorne felt like a faster Dark Souls but I still loved it, Elden Ring is a more polished Dark Souls with open world elements yet I still loved the game but people are now pitching a fit about Metaphor
It doesn’t have an identity crisis. It has elements of many Atlus titles for its anniversary.
I just think its kinda funny to think about how the game was teased years ago vs its current form
They were talking like this game was the logical evolution of the RPG genre, a game that will break conventions and be revolutionary in its niche. And comes the first trailer, Persona calendar system and social sim elements
Of course everything is distinct, of course theres major differences, but we still got a game with soejima monsters being summoned by young people that that the protagonists can created deeper bods with to fight demons with a calendar system and a system based on exploting elemental weakness
Its not like, a bad thing or anything but the buildup to the game if you been there from day one was a little hyperbolic based on what they actually ended up making
I have an idea why they look the same because Atlas made them both
😮
This is an earth shattering fact! How can this be!??!
Idk why people always think the major release from atlus has to be in the megaten universe hahaha their interviews and magazine articles has multiple times when they say it’s not a megaten🎉 but a long hour of Johne is a blessing ❤❤❤❤
Obviously most people don’t read those be fr
Oh so thats why you wanted a doctor phil impression...
Not to make more Persona comparisons, but halfway through this video, I realized that Metaphor's MC looks like Aigis and P3's MC (somehow) had a kid and I can't unsee it now...😂
Always thought they looked like Makoto Yuki if he was more alive
@@whackareal I think the haircut, one yellow eye and the headset kinda give Aigis vibes too.
PixieKari, British Narukami, Chidoriburg
And he talk
They were my headcanon couple before the end of P3 😢
thanks for spreading awareness on this issue. detractors are having a field day trying to smother this game's success because it's unfortunately very easy to do so in a game that's 100+ hours with trailers that don't even show the tip of the iceberg as to prevent spoilers. i hope enough people get to talking about this game's differences so that people won't continue to jump to conclusions.
the demo releasing today will surely help sway people over.
I love the Persona games but Metaphor is a direct response to my main issue with Persona games, which is having 1 day of combat and 29 days of school. In Metaphor, YOU choose what to do and when.
The weakness mechanic is actually tactical, where it doesnt end the current turn and halves a future turn, thus if u can get 3 crits or weak hits, then u have doubled ur turns to 6, BUT only if u do it tactically, as if u mess up by say accidentally passing on a half turn, that turn is wasted.
Then the Archetype system allows ALL party members to change their "persona"? That is crazy! Teammates are no longer confined to their specific role that Atlas has locked them into.
Metaphor is similar enough to Persona, that it is familiar and easy to pick up and play, but there r so many differences that make it unique. Its more tactical and doesn't have the drawn out school sections; Metaphor is my dream Persona game.
"The Persona-like."
It takes mechanics from both SMT and Persona.
Game review, "try not to bring up any persona-similiarities" challenge.
IGN Reviewer/journalist: 😰😰😰
There's honestly even a bit of Etrian Odyssey in there, though not much.
But ofc any game with a remote semblance to Persona is compared to Persona. Even SMT gets compared to Persona. It’s like no other turn based JRPG exists.
If the story is good, I don’t care. Too bad it’s not good tho
You haven't played bro@@t_bone2145
@@t_bone2145You haven’t even played Metaphor yet.
@@MinatotheGreenLantern you know there’s a demo out now right?
I'm really excited for this series either way, I know it's gonna be a fun time!
Agreed!
It's excellent. Anyone saying it has an "identity crisis" doesn't enjoy fun.
just finished the Demo, it was really fun and the battle is very satisfying also the UIs are really beautiful
I thank you JohneAwesome for making this video you’re truly doing amazing work here
Persona: Rip off your mask. Weak shit.
Metaphor: Rip out your heart and use it as a microphone. Peak Cinema.
I-I-I cant date my followers????🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺😨😨
sorry this is how you found out
and this is the biggest reason why this game is NOT like persona. lol
@@dorin497 thank God
@@dorin497that is not the biggest difference at all
WHAT!!!!!?
I have been playing the demo and I absolutely love it. My favorite game of all time was p5/p5r but so far Metaphor has completely blown it out of the water for me. I think the story is much better, and as you said I like how proactive you are. The characters are all really interesting so far. I love that the protagonist is voiced in important cut scenes like the other characters. To me I think they took the amazing work they did on games like P5/P5R and made them even better and added a bunch of new stuff. I love the Archetype system so much more than the Persona system because it gives you a lot more control regarding your teammates and how you all work together, I also like that it is simpler than the persona system as there are less of them but from what I have seen do a much better job of differentiating each archetype from each other where Personas all feel mostly the same and very limited even though there are so many more of them.
12 minutes of explanation of why Metaphor is generally a new SMT spin-off (Megaten) game like Digital Devil Saga :D
Atlus didn’t do much to differentiate this game from Persona in their marketing, but it's almost an incredulous situation as it is that doing so even feels necessary.
I mean, sure, if Persona were the first turn based JRPG of its kind ever and the genre had very few games, yeah everything else would feel like a clone of it due to lack of variety...but it's not? It's battle mechanics were derivative of another Atlus IP from its very inception (it eventually did other things to set itself apart), but nobody calls Persona games SMT clones...in fact they damn near called SMTV a Persona clone instead.
Next you'll tell me every shooter ever made is just Fortnite, and all foods are bread.
You know, the first thing that came to my mind was when John brought up proactive time manage while working around a calendar as a time limit...was the older Atelier games.
Be late for your boat ride and fuck up your entire run unless you reload an older save, good times...
The Term Doom clone was common back before games like Battlefeild and Call of Duty.
i would never consider smt to be persona clones, but smtV took quite a few things from persona, not saying it borrowed but more of modernised alongside persona
That’s clearly the PS3 protag. Not Joker. Cmon people!
It’s Persona 3-2. Clearly. c.c
It seems that a lot of people did not watch the promotional material for metaphor. Katsura hashino himself states that metaphor uses the press turn system and has a bond system like persona. It's weird seeing comments that are phrased as if the similarities were something atlus was trying to hide lol.
Mataphor looks like a fusion between SMT, Persona, fuga: melodies of steel, a pinch of warriors combat, A Job Style system, and all made with watercolor paintings.
I am so into this.
It gets mechanics from other smaller atlus series as well like etrian odyssey (formations and the classes) and Digital Devil saga (team skills that take up more than 1 turn, + archetypes are more similar to dds demon transformations than personas)
Its basically the fusion of ALL atlus series + a few unique things, its Absolute peak
Wont lie this is more of the smt x fire emblem game that we wanted over whatever toyko mirage sessions was
W vid cuz I don’t want this game coming out just for people to do what they did to smt5 and say it isn’t persona 5
It's just Persona clone?! I WONT BUY IT
It's not persona?! I WILL REFUND
@@shutup1037just do what ur name says ‘shut up’
Smt 5 was trash it wont be the same metaphor is better because its more like persona 5
@@seanymeredith69 no
@@WhySoSeriousSenpai people always scream SMT fans are etilists but here we are 😂
While persona 4 was my first persona game and first M rated game when I was 12 and has remained my favorite of both persona and SMT I am a fan of both and have played and beaten most of them and I have to say SMT 5 Vengeance is a close second it’s my dream to one day help everyone experience the joys of persona 4 and the rest of the persona and SMT series 😊
Persona is rated T in Japan. It's only M because of Mara. Actually, most ATLUS games have a Japanese T raging. Mara is what effs them over in the West.
@@backupschmliff1156 that is hilarious 😂
I didn’t know how much I wanted this. Make more game commentary videos! I love this ❤
There's literally an Archetype called "Soul Hacker"
Persona exists, is popular, and will be compared to this because obviously. Such a stupid complaint.
Okay, JohnE's "Atlus has always been putting esoteric and fringe elements into their games like Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, cannibalism, sexism, plagiarism..." got a pretty good chuckle out of me lmao.
love these discussion videos you put out time to time they’re great
Thank you i'd love to make more!
People underestimate the impact Etrian Odyssey had on this. I'm glad you mentioned it!
There are obviously differences , but after the demo it’s literally persona 6 lol and I love it it’s not a bad think
Having archetypes instead of persona’s gotta be the distinction people draw from this game. Every MegaTen title has the same enemies and this is the only one that doesn’t feature any of them, you can’t tell me it’s a reskin
Its literally Digital devil saga but in medieval times
I feel like people are just actively looking out for things to complain about at this point
Exactly. Played the demo really enjoyed it and I'm invested in the story and characters now. Similarities really don't matter to me.
People have a lot of growing and healing to do after the pandemic. I think it's a deeper feeling that needs to be tended to.
Sounds like you're making excuses for valid criticism by not addressing the argument
@@MrOdaddy2011is the valid criticism in the room with us now?
@@MrOdaddy2011 It's not criticism though. It's just a preference. Anyone who enjoys Persona 5 will enjoy this, those that don't or are tired of it naturally won't. As for myself, I'm incredibly happy they're going a more Persona 5 style approach with this.
Well the persona aligations don't help if the protagonist looks like if aigis and makoto had a kid
Truly the Dark Souls of the Demon souls of the MegaTen of the Final Fantasy of the Persona franchise.
Wait...
When you have a popular product, you have two options: 1) Keep making the same thing, or 2) try to make something different.
Continuing to make the same thing is safe and practical, but there's a long-term risk of stagnation (i.e., "copy /paste").
Trying to make something different may alienate customers, who may accuse you of being incompetent, abandoning successful formulas, selling out, ignoring your fanbase, etc.
I hope Metaphor strikes a good balance. It seems promising.
Wait till the hood finds out this is actually DDS3.
I'm really interested that Johne here is dipping his toes into this style of content, it fits his humor really well & honestly it's just a really good video, don't got much more to say than that
I love Persona 5 but have no real interest in playing the rest of the MegaTen franchise. Metaphor however, caught my interest somehow (cause I genuinely don't play RPG's) and after playing a few hours into the Demo, I'm looking forward to it.
There's a lot to compare to Persona, but I feel it gives a sense of welcoming familiarity rather than a "Been there done that".
8:08
YOU FIGHT THE DRAGON OF YOU DON'T SNEAK?????
I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE A GAME OVER SCREEN😭😭😭😭
I WANT TO FIGHT THE DRAGON
If you beat it you get a pretty nice Warrior greatsword. I fought it and won after a few retries.
The setting, premise, story and a robust battle system made me pre-order at full price. After playing the demo, I'm hooked!
"Here are all the differences... i think since the game aint out yet!" Alot of this is just asking if X system truly will function like persona. Nothing burger imo. Its definetly close enough to each other to warrant comparison imo. I already know ill enjoy it
I think they are deriving from multiple previous releases. The gameplay systems in the actual turn based combat are reminiscent of Digital Devil Saga more than Persona. I haven't played enough Atlus games to give more examples but I'm sure there are. I don't think looking back is that bad if they use that reminiscence to move forward.
I feel like Metafore is the merging of all the best parts of ATLUS's previous works in one game. The press turn battle system from SMT, the slice of life and social side of Persona, the creativity in the world they've always had and hell, even the beta concept for Persona 5. This is ATLUS taking everything that worked from their other games and putting it all into a new IP.
They knew what they were doing, this game is basically the Persona 6 we had been waiting, but now in an interesting setting instead of just another group of students.
You have:
- Persona awakenings
- Press turn battle system with the same affinities as Persona
- A "Morgana-like" companion
- Bonds
- Social stats
- Structure of the dungeons like Persona 5 (there are even the save rooms)
- Time management
- Graphic and menu style very Persona to say the least.
And if we're lucky next year we will have Persona 7, I couldn't be happier.
So i think the issue is that people were expecting a wild departure from the usual formula
People wanted this to be the 3rd Pillar of Atlus games with Atlus sort leaning more into the comparison (Like they remind you often whose writing the game)
I thinks its an issue for some because even the P5 Spin Off titles feel more distinct and those games have the exact same cast from P5
Scrambles Tatica and P5X(yes seriously) feel like a good balance of Persona and there own thing
Metaphor in marketing at least isnt making fans feel like this is a new twist on the formula but an old twist with paint
Its not the mechanics or even the similar looking protagonist its the vibe
Metaphor hasnt given players the feeling that this is meant to be a pillar of Atlus that moving foward Metaphor like SMT will forge a path on its own
It feels safe like player will play it enjoy it but it wont set a blaze for more Metaphor
No romance is Metaphor is one big change vs Pesona games.
Funny and informative. Thank you. Had to laugh at that point : "I'm running for president, I set my own schedule". You would have sold me on this game right there, if I hadn't preordered it a long time ago.
doing my part in stopping the iron curtain of persona 5
After playing the whole demo it is persona in a different setting gameplay and mechanics wise it’s v similar the main difference in combat is that you can change party members archetypes and each one is an investment kind of like a job system
I figured there'd be differences, obviously, albeit Atlus' marketing wasn't helping things. I just found it bizarre how they were so insistent on this not being MegaTen when so much of its DNA is blatantly from MegaTen/Persona- moreso than something like Catherine, which constantly gets called MegaTen despite Atlus and some fans' insistence its not. I guess in Atlus' eyes, Metaphor is distinct because it doesn't use the classic demons and it's not set in Japan? It's just strange to me.
Regardless, the biggest issue is just Atlus' marketing with this game. I was following it for a bit but they just showed nothing that made it look like the exciting fresh idea they were hyping it up as for so many years. I don't think it looks bad, per se, but I felt no inclination to keep up with it or save up for it so I can buy it right away. I think they were trying to play it safe with the marketing, make casual fans go "oh so it's like p5 that's sick i'm gonna get it" but it's kinda backfired for some who are struggling to see what sets it apart from other MegaTen games.
Might be related to Shin Megami Tensei roughly translates to True Goddess Reincarnation, so the demons in every SMT game is the part of the game that objectively makes SMT SMT.
Metaphor goes in a different direction where the enemies are more fantastical and take some inspiration from Hieronymus Bosch’s paintings.
@@bradleyhampton7966 while i think the demons are part of it, that's not really why. Firstly, SMT is a pun- the series started with the Digital Devil Story series, with the first novel (and subsequently, the Atlus game adaptation) being Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, named after the central heroine in the story being a reincarnation of the goddess Izanami. While the novels would continue under the Digital Devil Story name, Atlus used the Megami Tensei name for their own followups, and the series has been almost entirely unrelated to the novels since MT2. Shin Megami Tensei was a soft reboot of sorts to emphasize this fact, and the title is a pun- while the literal translation is "True Goddess Reincarnation", Shin is also a common word for "New", which many Japanese SFC games used to denote their SFC entries apart from earlier Famicom entries (think of it sorta like how in the west, many SNES games would slap the name "Super" at the start of the title to denote they were the SNES entries.) Atlus was just following that trend in a cheeky way. The Megami Tensei title has hardly actually had relevance to the theming of the series for a long time, more evident with the fact in Japan most spinoffs of the series didn't even carry the megaten name (something the west didn't have confidence in until Persona 4 Arena Ultimax).
Secondly, there are Megaten games where the demons take a backseat or don't appear at all, such as Digital Devil Saga and Tokyo Mirage Sessions. So I don't think people would be confused if they just called Metaphor a Megaten spinoff even without the iconic demons showing up. (Again some people still call Catherine a Megaten spinoff and that's in the same boat)
@@thenightwriter619 I guess that is fair, SMT is more than one element, and it’s all subjective on what feels like SMT what doesn’t.
I just want people to give the game a chance because I think it will be a great game. It does share some of SMT’s DNA, but that doesn’t mean it should be overlooked.
After playing the demo they do have a thing where choosing the right dialogue option gives you a bonus but not towards the character’s relationship. They give you bonus currency that you can use for Archetypes
Wait, you can get bonus MAG from dialog options? Where is this?
Thank you for this video man it’s become tiresome to convince people it’s actually not medieval persona clone
Ngl I thought this video was going to say something like “metaphor is to similar to persona” thank you for doing the opposite i was about to click off after like 10 seconds if I heard something annoying like that. Yes they are completely different like how SMT is now very different from persona. Ugh I hate sometimes how popular p5 is for this reason
I think this is Atlus improving and iterating in a better way of their most successful systems they've used since. It's not all bad when game companies reuse a lot of their assets to produce new stories and worlds to explore in
After playing the demo, I think a lot of it is this exactly and I love it. It has some social elements and calendar progression from Persona, the Press Turn combat and customisable MC from SMT, Archetypes bear some similarities to DDS while also being somewhat unique, then there are otherwise novel elements like the front/back row mechanic, Synthesis skills, overworld action elements etc. (I also like that MC's weapon changes depending on archetype, I haven't seen that since OG P3)
All I know is I can't wait for the game to come out and I'm losing patience. I watched nearly 0 pre-release material, but playing the demo really got me hooked. I just need the game to be out now lol.
I played Persona 5 when it came out and it juat wasn't for me. The dependancy on just the Social Links and being made to stay in a single City felt extremely stifling.
It got boring so quickly.
I love Fantasy as a Genre and the whole "Road Trip" idea is super cool! The Politics idea is also really unique.
I'm super excited and the Demo confirmed my interest!
New Atlus fans: Persona 6??
OG Atlus fans: Devil summoner?, Devil Survivor?, Devil children?, Digital Devil Saga?(ok that’s a stretch), new ip?, oh I guess it could be persona related
Yes children Atlus used to make games other than persona and SMT
Its not so much an identity crisis as it is a spin off.... They created the UI and style of Persona, which people like and because its their intellectual property, they can experiement with it and try other settings/scenarios if they so choose. I really don't get why a handful of people have a problem with its similarity to Persona, when ther are HORDES of games in other genres similar to each other. How many games look and play like Call of Duty, or Fortnite, or many other titles? Yet for some reason a few people seem to have issue with Atlus using their created style to give something new a try.
I think the game is going to be outstanding. And I'd MUCH rather have a game similar to another game I really like, than no game at all or another dime a dozen action rpg. Other series didnt want to be similar to past games, and ended up being lame, like Final Fantasy. Atlus, at least, sticks to their traditional genre and gives turn based classic RPG fans what they want, instead of trying to please everyone and switching to a bargain bin button masher.....
Not to mention those who had early hands on time with it say the similarities are superficial at best, and its its own IP more than its not.
Yeah, the archetypes reminded me more of the classes we see in XC3
I’m glad you talked about the difference in undertones and world building I think way too many people are missing that
Amazing, well thought and beautifully presented analysis bro. Keep em coming!
Straight up facts. Made tons of great points here, glad I watched it! Loved the editing and the skits too, high production value
I honestly wouldn’t say SMT and Persona are radically different, they are pretty similar. Thematically, they are drastically different. Gameplay wise, they are fairly similar. At least way more than your octopath traveler, Pokemon, or Dragon Quest.
So it makes sense Metaphor also looks similar. I get SMT fans desperately want it to be a completely original IP but thats just not gonna happen. Luckily, I would say the differences of Metaphor does equate to rhe difference between SMT and Persona, which is big deal for Atlus fans. But to any normal person, it looks like Persona lul.
At the same time, I do appreciate this video because noting the differences is important.
SMT and Persona are very different, basically only combat and fusion are same with minor differences. 90% of persona is social link stuff, 90% of smt is fighting.
I saw a post where someone said the mc looks like if makoto(p3mc) and aigis had a child
Now i cant unseenit
The real question, is this JohneAwesome or JohneAI?
Playing the demo: I love it. I am prolonging it so it won't end. 😅. But I can't lie, I find so much familiarity with Persona 5 though. It isn't a negative for me. But come on 😂. But story wise I feel this will be brand new, with twists and turns.
You can take a bath therefore it's Trails of Cold Steel 5 featuring Persona 5.
Persona fans when they realize it isn't the only JRPG out there:
Just finished the demo. Already my GOTY. It does have similarities to Persona of course. But the overall themes, atmosphere, settings and not having a daily routine life is so much different. Looking forward to oct 11 to continue playing
I think this is a problem of any anime like JRPG nowdays, all of them are compared to Persona 5, it seems to be the curse of the game was so good for its time that any future game needs to be compare to it.
honestly, i love that they don't get it. let's try to keep keep atlus games a niche hobby
I've seen ppl call smt5 persona. People see atlus and automatically call the game p5.
True, its fucking annoying
I'm Loving the Demo.
I think Metaphor has the potential to be better than SMT and Persona.
Johne thank you. This video was 100% needed it brings sadness to my excitement for the game when someone just says "fantasy persona"
Same thing happened to SMT games and complained that is not like persona when SMT is older than Persona, and Persona is a Spin off SMT
Usually SMT games are harder games
The demo dropped today, and it is awesome, it has pieces from all their titles and I'm sure there will be new stuff as we get the whole game in a few weeks. This game is going to be EPIC.
Bro I'm excited for this game man. I now a lot of people was introduced when persona 5 so it's easy to try to compare but man a new IP?? I'm so down for Atlus cooking up something new and creative man
This better be good and not flop or I’ll be very disappointed and maybe even angry. The Atlus game fans have been buttering this game up. I’m probably gonna wait a couple weeks after it comes out to see how good it is before I buy, but I think I will and I am excited.
Persona 5 is a very good game not only with the story behind it but the gameplay as well,but with Metaphor Re Fantazio they out done themselves.Wacth out the cat is out of the bag.The big question is will they be able to produce another Great Title after Metaphor and am not talking about Persona 6.
I don't think it's persona, but it definitely is related, and has persona's blood pumping through its metaphorical veins. That's for sure
My stupid ass knew nothing about how archetypes work, but now that I do I'm kinda hyped actually. Must play the demo and see the basics for myself. Even if it was like Persona (and it very apparently isn't), I don't really see that being that bad of a thing, as I'd just be expecting Atlus to use the good tried and tested parts of those games and utilize them to great success.
i love megaten but its gonna be so nice playing an atlus rpg that doesn't have the same demons ive seen in every title
Holy shit Johne this video was FIREEEEEEEEEEE!! i stg some the people bitchin about Metaphor/Persona similarities have played like 1 maybe 2 rpgs in their life D,,,,,,x
I'm fully expecting "Persona without the soul" type reviews when this game drops. I love Persona, but Persona's explosion in popularity was a mistake.
I think the one reason I didn't really enjoy the demo of M:RF is simply. I no longer like the fantasy setting. I've grown bored of the fantasy setting as a whole and it's just no longer interesting to me.
You do know they are capable of creating something, that would look WAY different even on the surface level? How about we start actually designing characters, that DO NOT remind us of a certain game that was released in February this year? Main protagonist with a short blue hair, AGAIN, the rest are Mitsuru-elf, Akihiko with horns, fairy Yukari, rabbit Koromaru. This may be a stretch but its eerly similar.
Lord Johne has graced us with another discussion video.
The best comparison for me is DOS 2 and BG3 both games are similar in terms of base but everything else is very different but BG3 took things to the next level and after playing the demo metaphor seems like to be doing just that! It’s absolutely incredible and it really seems like katsura hoshino and his teams are getting the budget and resources that they finally deserve the game is shaping up to be an all time classic.
Are you gonna do a let’s play on metaphor at all? I would love to watch it
yep!
@@JohneAwesome oh thank you!! I love watching your persona type games and stuff
My biggest issue is there’s no little hand enemies that absolutely bust down to ‘Its Going Down’ during combat.
Like… that’s one of the biggest draws to the series for a lot of people and I’m worried how well sales will be if there’s no hand enemies absolutely grooving to ‘babybabybabybabybaby!’
Bro the demo is CRAZY GOOD. I don’t see why people critique atlus for using a similar combat system when that system kicks ass