You're a machine Dr. Grande. How do you keep putting out so much content so frequently? I suppose since you're not diagnosing anyone, only speculating, it shaves a few minutes off the production. Congrats on the success and great content. ;)
I've always wondered why he used Patty's computer to do a search on how to destroy a hard drive, rather than on his own, which he did end up destroying.
Here's theory #4: He had something on his harddrive about someone else. This someone else told him to destroy the harddrive, perhaps threatening to kill him if he does not destroy it. He destroyed it but then that someone killed him anyway, just to be sure.
Interesting and scary. Dont think I've heard this theory before. I wonder if there was a substantial life insurance policy on him. For some reason, this case made me think of a NY man that paid someone to kill him so his family would receive benefits. This could explain why his body was never recovered.
While I do think suicide is by far the most likely outcome here, the hard drive is really confusing. There have long been rumors that Sandusky engaged in behavior that involved more than just himself - like other powerful men may have been involved in some way with his crimes. Could the hard drive have had some evidence he had closer ties with Sandusky than thought? I think it's highly unlikely, but far from impossible. The fact that Sandusky has always maintained his innocence means he's unlikely to ever expose any possible larger conspiracy.
I don't know about the genetics, but having a brother commit suicide must seriously mess with your mind, long-term. Like, the whole point and value of life probably must come into question repeatedly...
You never know what's under the surface. I have known 10 people who have committed suicide. My stepbrother committed suicide in his 30s. He had been molested by his Boy Scout troop leader years before.
Sarah Albers brings up a very relevant point - we have no idea what his family of origin story might be - with a brother who offed himself chances are it may have not been very pleasant.
His brother jumped off a bridge over a river and parked his car in a public lot (a park, I believe), very similar. That's either a strong indicator of suicide, or of someone wanting to give that impression.
As a native of Lewisburg I can say this was one of the strangest things that’s happened here. I live one block away from where his car was found and from the abandoned train track/bridge. The Susquehanna river is a half a block away. The river here is very shallow and there is a dam further down stream. It’s extremely rare not to recover someone who has drowned in this part of the river, so long as there are no flood conditions (which there wasn’t at the time). It would be difficult for an adult to drown in this part of the river. Sadly his family may never know what happened to him. Other than legally being declared deceased there’s no closure. .
Wow, you were so close to this case in a sense, it has baffled me I feel like he might’ve taken his life but because he was so intelligent, he might have made it look like that was the last area he was in so he could’ve left the area to take matters into his own hands, so his body could not be found maybe possibly to spare his loved ones The immediate knowledge of his suicide and may be for insurance purposes, however, it could’ve been Foul Play yet how would people who were after him know that he would not be at work and find him miles away? Unless they were following him & instructed him to dispose of his laptop & took info from it But It just doesn’t add up entirely in either scenario!
Hi Dr. Grande. You put so much time into your videos. I appreciate that your content is done on an average of 17 minutes but is packed with the pertinent information. I love your analysis of the cases you cover. My favorite channel by far. Thanks you for all your hard work.
@@zenawarrior7442 yes, i did. Thank you for the reply. I asked because there was a couple of times in my life where i thought i might have been a little depressed, but wasnt quite sure. Im so lucky to not be afflicted in that way, because it feels so terrible and dark when it happens.
@@BucketHeadianHagg Very welcome. I'm no Dr G lol but I know more people are affected than we realize. It is dark & scary...very hard to see past those times. Glad you are OK. Thx for messaging 💚💚
This happened where I live. I recently listened to two podcasts about this. But in the end it’s still a mystery. Also, the street of shops in Lewisburg is awesome. Wonderful stores of all types of antiques and interesting finds.
It always amazes me when items belonging to a missing person are found in obscure places and turned over to police. I've found tons of trash in various places over the years and never once thought to turn it in to police because it might be connected to some horrifying crime.
Ah, but how about now you HAVE heard all these stories??! Only interesting thing I found was a number plate...I reported, police came, it was from a stolen van and police took it, and the drink came with it.🙂🇬🇧
I think illegal dumping is a way more common crime than conspiratorial murder. This trash must have had something exceptional about it is all I can think because there’s a lot of junk that no one would bother noticing police about. You’re right for sure about that.
Or, this is s rural area without a lot of news, and so everyone was aware of the missing DA and the fact that his laptop was found without a hard drive, so when people saw one, they thought "Oh, this might belong to that missing guy"
Lol, Street of shops! The way Dr.Grande "analyses" the mind of the person who gave the street its name, hahaha! This my kind of humor, keep them coming Doc!
I live by the street of shops, funny enough it's not actually a "street of shops" it's all in one giant building that holds tons of different vendors things with all the junk/antiques in the basement. I loved listening to him talk about my home towns!
@@daniellewert6864 Your description of it makes the streetname even weirder, lol! I can imagine that it is funny to hear him talk about your hometown. Greetings from Limburg, the Netherlands!
4:09 I'm actually surprised *Street of Shops* became the bud of this episodes obligatory levity, as opposed to the surname *Fornicola,* which leaves little to speculation as to the nature of her relationship with the subject. That being...... - *FORNICATORY!* 😄
I have always had my own theory in this case. I believe somewhere somehow he decided to leave the country and start over. He wanted to do his retirement away from everything that was going on in his life currently. I believe he found somebody in the network of people that obviously he has to work with due to his employment, and found someone that could get him an ID, maybe he traded some deals within a court system for some cash, met with someone to get a passport and some information, and headed off overseas. I still think he’s alive, living somewhere else. He definitely had the connections to be able to do that. I believe the cigarette smoke was the individual that he was meeting up with to obtain a passport, money, etc. The hard drive contained information about probably helping somebody, and or contacting this individual, so it had to be destroyed. I don’t think there’s any evidence that he’s actually dead and that there’s more evidence pointing to the fact that he took off.
I agree with you He must have started a new life in an other country I think he had another bank account with a lot of money on it He had never loved his job.
I think this is one of the few disappearance cases where "He skipped town to start a new life" has an actual chance of being true. But who knows. I doubt it's murder - too many hints beforehand (internet searches, hard drive, "not going to ber here").
I live in State College, PA and I remember this case. I don’t recall hearing that his brother had committed suicide so that is really interesting. It’s one of our great mysteries along with the disappearance of Cindy Song.
Also, a State College resident and I agree that this is like Cindy Song. I remember hearing from the get go about his brother though. I wonder if either case will ever be solved.
Lololololololololololololololololol. The more treacherous the position, the “responsibilities of that position will eventually run a toll on one’s life. As continuing to make money and stay in whatever position (after that experience runs its toll) isn’t everyone’s interest. Especially if and when someone physically and mentally starts to feel sick from what they can sense. Trust and believe that when they are well aware of who they’ve been during their life time and know how to put 2 and 2 together……….and they’re smart. They will adjust accordingly.
As DA he easily could have accepted cash for favors, leaving no records of such transactions behind. EDIT (after reading PhilLesh69 reply): The fact that he was adept at storing up his own wealth under other peoples' names also means he could have had additional sources of undetectable resources. Convicts and criminals out to kill him, ex-wives collecting monthly checks...seems like disappearing without a trace was a good retirement plan and that he would be the kind of person to take his time setting everything up in advance. Only speculating about what might be happening in a situation like this, of course.
A guy who shielded assets by putting them under other people's names knows how to make blind and untraceable transactions. He hired a night mover. They met in a flea market parking lot and talked in his car before he got into the mover's vehicle.
@@maureeningleston1501 I still feel around 70-80% likely he committed suicide. I will admit though, his finances leave me confused. His job paid $200k/years with great benefits. Even with 2 divorces, I can't see how he had next to no real assets. My suspicion is he had some addiction people didn't know about - most likely gambling, possibly drugs. Even if that were the case, we need to keep in mind that he was about to retire and given his long tenure as DA, he almost certainly had a six figure a year pension in retirement. It's hard to see someone faking their death to start a new life, giving up a fat pension.
@@PrecociousFriand and this super analytical, intelligent DA searched how to destroy a hard drive... on a computer, the hard drive of which he did not destroy? If he intended on disappearing without a trace, wouldn't he have conducted that search on the laptop he was about to fry and ditch in a river?
These unsolved cases where people just vanish are fascinating. I wonder if there is a bar somewhere where all of the people that do start a new life hang out at.
Probably in the Bahamas. Unrelated to that though, after World War II a lot of people did use the chaos and population displacements to do just that. I read something about two people who fabricated stories about being Holocaust survivors meeting each other and each being afraid the other would spot holes in their story because each one thought the other had really been at the camp they were pretending to have been prisoners of. I decided it’s not worth all that sneaking around; I’ll just face my problems.
Yeah there is 👀……………..and they sit and discuss all their regrets with each other, while analyzing the trajectory of all the awful experiences that led them to choose a disappearing act over everything.
This was a super interesting case. Good job, Dr Grande! I hope they find him living like a king somewhere someday. Also, I love the color combo of your shirt, and how the lines match up so perfectly!
Most district attorney's are corrupt that's why they are stressed they don't give a crap about Justice and I hope they burn in hell for destroying innocent good lives with corruption
I'm leaning towards theory number 3 also. If he was losing weight, perhaps he got an awful diagnosis about his health and wanted to go on his own terms. Very sad and puzzling case! Really great video, Dr. Grande!
I love how you explain all of the theories and how probable each one is in relation to the case. Thank you for your analysis Dr Grande! Always informative!💙💙
My theory, at least for the destruction of the hard drive is that there was probably something on it that if people knew about, would damage his image. It wouldn't have to be illegal, it could just be some kink that people would think is weird and he'd forever be associated with it.
I love this channel… shocking yet interesting subject matter delivered in such a soothing, calm voice! I suffer with anxiety, but fascinated by true crime and psychology!
It sounds like he met with a "night mover" in that parking lot, where they briefly sat together in his car and discussed the relocation process and exchanged payment before he got into another vehicle to "disappear" in.
I'd like to think so, too. Unless his weight loss was caused by a terminal illness. He hang out in Slovakia. He's smart enough to be paid in cash for legal advice? And store it away somewhere?
@45 Jugga🥷🏾 but the money has to be moved off shore, so there would be records of big amount of money being taken from the account he gets his salary paid into
@45 Jugga🥷🏾 very unlikely and just no motive for it. If he wanted to he could just resigned from his job and move to Slovenia or wherever. No reason for him to go through all pf that
This is a good point. The fact that he was not married at the time and his body was never recovered means we'll probably never know. I do think it 70-80%~ likely suicide was what happened here. Nearly everything points towards that.
Agreed. Weight loss and looking frail sounds pretty sick to me. If you didn't want anyone to know, you'd just go to a doctor out of your area. Plenty of people choose suicide over prolonged illness and misery. Sad either way.
@@itsmackenzie I saw that too, but forgot about it! Sure been a long time, poor guy. I don't think he is alive.... either by choice or murdered. We don't know what people are thinking, no matter how normal they act. But, then having a smoker in the car, would not make sense either! I hate cig smoke too....my car has never been smoked in and you could tell in a second if so someone did....not to mention I would knock them silly!! 😬
I usually disregard the "new life" theory as extremely unlikely, but in this case, I'm not so sure... He seemed smart and organized enough to do this. And maybe he actually had more money than we think (for instance, properties in the name of other people or something like that). I'm not saying this is the most likely theory, but it seems plausible.
@@rabefamily9146 Ray's family petitioned the court to have him legally determined to be deceased. I would imagine that his pension then went to his step-daughter or to Patty
@@cottontails9003 Yes, it’s our professional American football team’s name lol. They’re the Houston Texans (the Texans from Houston), like the Miami Dolphins, but with no imagination. It would be like calling the Miami team “The Miami Floridians.”
@@Autumn_Forest_ We have Rugby league here ,.my favourite team is called the rabbito. We also have the roosters,the titans ,the storms ,bull dogs,the warrior and the bronco also the cowboys and on and on it goes. Thank you Nakidz
@@cottontails9003 See, those are nice names (we have many of the same names for our teams). They just dropped the ball (pardon the pun) on the Texans. What a boring name! When I first heard it, I was like 😳🤔🤨👎.
I strongly agree that he ended his own life. I think he was methodical and as such, he planned his ending in the same manner. Destroying the hard drive was part of his plan. Furthermore, reports from people saying that he wasn’t depressed are irrelevant because depression is easy to hide, unfortunately. In addition, for people with depression there is usually one or very few factors that keep them going. Maybe for Ray that was his profession, without which life would lose its purpose. Excellent analysis Dr. Grande, thank you.❤️
@@rejaneoliveira5019 You're so welcome! Just telling it like it is. It's wonderful to be able to have an intelligent discussion on a mysterious and perplexing subject.
There are "nighttime moving companies" in Japan, and I'm sure here as well, who help people move into completely new lives leaving little or no trace behind. _It all started in a bar in Paris, back in 2008, when a friend told Lena Mauger a story. It was about a Japanese couple who had disappeared. They hadn’t died. They weren’t kidnapped. They just deliberately vanished in the middle of the night without explanation._ _And this wasn’t just a one-off, mysterious occurrence. According to Mauger’s friend, it was a phenomenon. In Japan, thousands of people each year became johatsu - “evaporated people” - driven underground by the stigma of debt, job loss, divorce, even just failing an exam._
The cigarette smoke and ashes in the car are puzzling. I'd have thought suicide, if not for that. I don't think he was running away to start a new life, either. Anything's possible, this is a real head scratcher. Thanks for this intriguing case, Dr.Grande. And for wearing that shirt! Love the colors and it really looks great on you!! 🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🙂
@@erikparent8176 Nothing in this one adds up. It could be any of the scenarios Dr. Grande gave. Good evidence FOR all three and AGAINST all three. Hmm. Yes, better call Scotland Yard on this one! 🧐 🔍🔎🔦
There’s a concept in psychology about eu-stress and dis-tress. Distress is self-explanatory but eustress is associated with ostensibly positive events, like getting married, welcoming a child, retiring etc. though these are positive events for most people, they still signal a significant change in their lives; there are new habits and patterns that have to be established and it often accompanies changes to one’s financial situation. I’m in my 30s though so retirement sounds like a lot of fun to me 🤣
I saw him being interviewed in an episode of: The FBI Files on TV. It was about a case of a 17 yr old girl who disappeared, but was later found to have been killed by a truck driver she hitched a ride with.
Dr. Grande, you had mentioned that Ray became frail and had lost some weight, and when questioned about a date to set for a trial he replied he wouldn't be here. I can't tell you, other than intuitively, but was Ray physically ill and going through treatments? Does his medical records provide any clues?
I remember hearing this story before and I thought then that he was murdered by someone he thought he could trust. Now, however, I think he took off. They never found his body and the fact that the hard drive was destroyed doesn't point to an outsider but does to a person in the know; like an attorney. It surely is a mystery. I wonder if you have any inclination to do the story on the Alex Murdaugh case which is going on right now.That is one strange case.
Wow! That was a curious tale. I hope he's living a secret life somewhere but it seems unlikely. Doc, please do a video on what's happening in Texas with the ban on abortion and the $10,000 reward for turning people in😩 Would love your calming analysis of the situation! Love all the content🙌💙🌈💙
In my country we have a ban on abortion except in 3 cases: 1. Mother's life is in danger 2. Mother was raped 3. Mother has the knowledge that her baby is retarded or very ill, so much so the kid would be a burden on her life and the kid will always require being cared for, it cannot live on its own. We are pretty much a conservative nation and I like it. There's no racism here, no xenophobia nor homophobia. It's all a myth that being conservative is somehow being backwards, we love our nation and country, we have plenty of Vietnamese here, 300.000 Tatars who are Muslims but consider themselves Poles and love our country, recently we have more tourists than usual because we don't have lockdowns and masks are needed only in public transport and businesses that require it, and I like it. Although, like in USA, the leftist European media attacks us on every turn, that our government is authoritarian and does not abide the law, both claims are of course ridiculous, they don't live here, we do. Our left has been infected with ideas from USA and when they can't get their way, they go abroad to complain to daddy and Eurodeputives from the left always vote against our interests, which makes them traitors in our eyes. Jews hate us, because our president signed a law, that forbids them to try and get estates, as our president said: "we will not pay for German crimes during WW2". It's rather terrifying that we beat communism, only to see the West succumb to it.
@@belladonnahigh9206 Are you Polish? I wish Ireland were like the eastern European bloc. They seem to be the only EU members fighting against the EU. The UK left, but everyone else just goes along with their hideous ideas. One of the reasons Ireland even had an abortion referendum was pressure from the EU.
@@lynncrf yep, I'm from Poland. It is like you say it is, everyone goes with the flow except for us, Hungary and 2 other countries I think. We're fighting strong for our values and tradition. Unfortunately our left has gone off the rails, like the rest of the Western left, including Northern America. Canada is where the disease started, spread to USA and everything USA does, the left in Europe copies this and it's terrible. The amount of propaganda against our country is immense, they accuse us of not following the law, racism, alphabet community phobia. Nothing they claim in their little articles is true, our constitution forbids forming fascist, nazi or communist parties, so they should look in the mirror first. They want us to be like them, and are pissed off we're largely conservative. And if someone is killed here "it's because we're conservative", again look in the mirror and see how many deaths and rapes are occurring in their "paradises". Some idiot in an article in US called our party far-right, totalitarian etc. I don't think he was ever here. All unfounded lies. Twitter removed one of ours politicians simply for saying there are only two sexes. You just can't be left alone, leftism is creeping into our country, but I hope we will prevail. What the left is doing is just double standards. Cheers my Irish friend.
Wow Dr Grande, quite a mystery this time. Great presentation of the known facts. I would go with a combination of both your first and second theorys. I think Ray may have had an upcoming case where his life and/or the life of his girlfriend was possibly threatened by the convicted person or associates over a period of time. The deal was that if he handed over the laptop with the hard drive removed which contained unshared files of incriminating evidence to this person at an agreed meeting place, Street of Shops, they would back off and leave him alone. With all this looming it might explain why he lost weight due to stress and fear of what was happening. He may well have been anxious and depressed too. He subsequently met with this person who got into his car smoking a cigarette but instead of just taking the computer he also killed or disabled Ray enough to move him to his own vehicle along with the laptop and hard drive without leaving evidence behind apart from the cigarette ash in the Mini Cooper. He then took the destroyed hard drive and laptop and ditched them in the river and disposed of Ray's body somewhere that it has never been found. So many possibilities for a man who spent his life making enemies with the lowest of the low. It often baffles me that there are not more violent crimes against District Attorneys because of this - perhaps there are? Thank you Dr Grande for telling this complex tale so well as usual. You are very busy these days 😁
I understand your logic and why you reached the conclusion you did about Ray but I would like to think that Ray just wanted to start a new life. The part that seems strange to me is that they never found his body. If he had been murdered they would have found the remains of a skeleton somewhere or a bone fragment from his body been taken to a wooded area an animal. Had he thrown himself into the river that in spite of being shallow water from what I gathered from your presentation, the river would have carried it to some destination and it eventually would have washed up. Ray was not stupid, if he was going to drown himself I don't think he threw himself into the shallow end of the pool as they say, that wouldn't really be conducive for an unsuccessful outcome of killing oneself, if that's what one wanted to do. I hope Ray just "ran away from home," & somewhere in some obscure town he has an Antique Store that specializes in Vintage Cameras.
HI, thank you for this video, as well as for all of them, I enjoy how professional you are and informative. RE: Ray Gricar. I live a few towns away from Lewisburg, and this case created quite a stir locally, it was actually very shocking. The local assumption has been that he was killed and someone else destroyed the hard drive: his background as a DA indicated his familiarity with people who were likely to be prosecuted by him and people there talked about the mafia/drug dealers who 'had it in for him'. I was told that he was very happy with his partner and that they were considering getting married. There are many places around there to dispose of a body, one that was mentioned was a steep drop off at Shikellamy State Park. It would have been impossible for this are to be searched it is so steep: also impossible for dogs to search here. Re: the cigarette smoke smell: he adored his car and would never had had a smoker in it. Perhaps it is just too hard to accept a suicide for him !
@@peccantis It is also common to go with Gricar (greekar).. My name is the same, it's pronounced Chernelich, but in English I would use Cernelic (Sernelik).
Cigarette ashes in the car are the biggest clue that he wasn’t alone in the car. suicide or not someone sat in his car and I’m inclined to believe he was deliberately killed
I grew up and still live in the town he was the DA at in bellefonte. I was just a teen when he went missing but I remember it was a huge local news story and still is. People think it might have been someone he sent to prison that might’ve killed him. I still can’t believe he hasn’t been found. We live in a very small town so this situation was very surprising.
Oddly enough, in my small hometown of less than ten thousand people I know of two sets of brothers who committed suicide, and I wonder if there may be a genetic disposition for suicide in some people. I have no idea if this was just a sad coincidence but I find those cases odd. Could Ray have been genetically predisposed to consider suicide a viable alternative? Anyone else ever run into this type of shared self destructive behavior? Great job as always, Doctor.
@@Sea.and.sky. no one can make you kill yourself. I’m not trying to be combative I just think the blame is misplaced here. Otherwise I guess it’s my fault my ex killed himself after our breakup right?
When assessing a person for suicide you always ask if family members have committed suicide. It’s an indicator for higher risk. It may be learned behavior, genetic vulnerability, or whatever. Kurt Cobain had 2 uncles who killed themselves.
Yeah, and I'm also unconvinced the cigarettes is any real evidence of murder. His car was found unlocked, so literally anyone (homeless person or junkie) could have taken shelter in his car at some point and smoked. I also think it's entirely possible he *did* smoke on occasion, but was extremely secretive about it. People going to great lengths to hide habits like smoking is far more common than many believe.
Couldn't Patty have done the search? Why assume it was him? Why wouldn't he search on his laptop? I think it was homicide. I have watched other accounts, you did a great job.
His family and those close to him were looked at strongly by the authorities and all ruled out as suspects. I think this was almost certainly suicide, bu if it was murder I think it far more likely it was someone unrelated to him who had an axe to grind, or someone he was involved with something shady with. Even though he was divorced twice, the fact that he had no assets despite having a $200k/year job with benefits makes little sense unless there was more going on - like a gambling problem others didn't know about.
@@chad3232132 suicide is the least likely in this situation.I’ve watched retired detectives talk about this and the two best theories were he ran away from this life or he was murdered. They even said suicide wasn’t likely at all.
OK. I think I’m at the end of the line. I’ve listened too every single Dr Grande podcast to date. Please, get more out ASAP as they are coincidentally perfectly timed to walking my dog. They make otherwise boring dog walks kind of fun. How about a Leopold and Loeb or a Richard Hickock and Perry Smith podcast? Thanks in advance.
Feeling a bit protective here! This man works as hard as any one ever! His work is polished and as regular as clockwork! Many many older videos to rewatch! I do not feel that it is quite fair to expect more!
I'd put the odds something like this. 70% chance of suicide - Just about everything lines up with this for me. His brother committed suicide, which has a well known genetic component. He struggled financially (despite a very good, well paying job). He had multiple failed marriages. It sounds as though he suffered from depression. The evidence suggests he (not someone else) knowingly destroyed hard drives prior to leaving. He also left hints about suicide, which were apparently interpreted incorrectly by others. All of it points heavily to suicide. 20% chance he was murdered - Given his occupation he would have had no shortage of enemies. 10% chance he faked his death and left to start a new life - Seems *highly* unlikely. He had next to no assets and basically left with nothing. Also, he was about to retire and a long-term DA would have had a very large pension. I cannot imagine he'd up and leave all that behind for no apparent reason. A few other observations: Evidence of cigarettes in his car - I'm not at all convinced this is significant evidence of foul play and there are multiple possibilities. Even though people insisted Ray hated cigarettes, many people are smokers who go to great lengths to hide their habit. I had an uncle who smoked for 40 years and literally *nobody* in my family knew he smoked in public until he died and the cigarettes were found on him. Ray was known as a very private person and in a stressful job, which makes the idea of him being a private smoker more likely. Another possibility is that since his car was abandoned unlocked someone else, like a vagrant or junkie, took shelter in it at some point and smoked in the car. The Sandusky case - This is mere speculation, but it has long been rumored that Sandusky was involved in a larger conspiracy of abusing children, with other powerful people involved in the abuse. Potentially someone like say, a district attorney. I am *highly* doubtful this is the case, but I have suspected there is a chance Ray was involved with Sandusky more than people think, and that the hard drive may have contained something shady, such as evidence of his involvement with Sandusky. Like I said, I think this is unlikely but worth mentioning. Ray's finances - Even with two divorces, his complete lack of any assets makes little sense. His job pays about $200k a year with great benefits. There's no reason why he should have struggled financially unless there was more going on - like a gambling addiction or drugs.
He may have been a perfectionist and regretted his handling of Sandusky in some way. Maybe he felt he made a bad decision or allowed himself to be pressured. This guilt wouldn’t help his depression. The laptop is a puzzle though. Why not just leave it at work if he had nothing to hide.
@@rabefamily9146 As far as the hard drive goes, I can speak to personal experience as someone who has suffered from extreme bouts of depression, suicidal thoughts, and some actual attempts. There have been a few times when I wiped my computer hard drives and even destroyed electronic devices prior to a considered or planned suicide attempt. There has never been in anything remotely criminal/illegal on my computers. My own purpose for destroying that information was more about preventing family or friends from finding out more mundane things - like what porn I'm interested in and other web surfing interests they may find strange or confusing. It's more about wanting to keep personal things personal and not polluting the image loved ones had of me after death. That may seem odd considering suicide by definition is probably far more shocking to loved ones than something like finding out what the deceased person's porn habits are, but it was my thinking when suicidal. Extreme depression and suicide typically aren't entirely rational. It could be the case that Ray was destroying evidence to cover up some past criminal misconduct, or it could be something extremely mundane, like what I was trying to hide.
You win the internet today! 🏆🥇 Excellent analysis, that for some reason escaped my pea brain! I've gotta believe they tested them🚬 but maybe not! Great detective work! 🔍👣
You're a machine Dr. Grande. How do you keep putting out so much content so frequently? I suppose since you're not diagnosing anyone, only speculating, it shaves a few minutes off the production. Congrats on the success and great content. ;)
A machine 🤖 a perfect descriptive 😆 Dr. Grande is awesome.
Rooting 4 a day he will actually Diagnose some1 in a live program!!!
Oh every1 is an arm-chair psychiatrist these days ...
wikipedia
He sounds like a machine
I've always wondered why he used Patty's computer to do a search on how to destroy a hard drive, rather than on his own, which he did end up destroying.
Excellent point!
Maybe Patty did the searching. Maybe she was blackmailing him about info on the hard drive. Maybe she destroyed both hard drive and him....
@@corigram Not so far-fetched.
Ray was in on something pretty heavy poor guy
@@corigram 😂😂
"He was fluent in Slovenian". That's a phrase you don't hear everyday, or in your entire life.
Melania and Baron.
@@DCOM20. Hot only if your idea of attractive is a face full of botox with a constant scowl.
@@lisas8244 Hillary got Botox?
We all know about the constant scowl.
It's just a language. People speak it.
Its one of the hardest languages to learn in the whole world. Ampak ja, drugače pa marsikdo govori slovensko, itak :)
Here's theory #4: He had something on his harddrive about someone else. This someone else told him to destroy the harddrive, perhaps threatening to kill him if he does not destroy it. He destroyed it but then that someone killed him anyway, just to be sure.
Interesting and scary. Dont think I've heard this theory before. I wonder if there was a substantial life insurance policy on him. For some reason, this case made me think of a NY man that paid someone to kill him so his family would receive benefits. This could explain why his body was never recovered.
That's a good theory.
It makes sense. It explains why he seemed to be waiting for someone, the fact that someone smoked in his car, why his body was never found...
While I do think suicide is by far the most likely outcome here, the hard drive is really confusing. There have long been rumors that Sandusky engaged in behavior that involved more than just himself - like other powerful men may have been involved in some way with his crimes. Could the hard drive have had some evidence he had closer ties with Sandusky than thought? I think it's highly unlikely, but far from impossible. The fact that Sandusky has always maintained his innocence means he's unlikely to ever expose any possible larger conspiracy.
Sorry, off the topic;
Your profile photo is beautiful!
Omg!! I am so hype to see you’re covering this! I live in Bellefonte, PA and the Ray Gricar case is a huge local mystery!!
Hey neighbor! Bellefonte here, too!👋🏻
@@prittyflutterbystar that is so awesome!!!
I don't know about the genetics, but having a brother commit suicide must seriously mess with your mind, long-term. Like, the whole point and value of life probably must come into question repeatedly...
You never know what's under the surface. I have known 10 people who have committed suicide. My stepbrother committed suicide in his 30s. He had been molested by his Boy Scout troop leader years before.
Sarah Albers brings up a very relevant point - we have no idea what his family of origin story might be - with a brother who offed himself chances are it may have not been very pleasant.
His brother jumped off a bridge over a river and parked his car in a public lot (a park, I believe), very similar. That's either a strong indicator of suicide, or of someone wanting to give that impression.
Losing a sibling with whom you are very close is devastating. 😔
And yet he didn’t believe it was suicide.
As a native of Lewisburg I can say this was one of the strangest things that’s happened here. I live one block away from where his car was found and from the abandoned train track/bridge. The Susquehanna river is a half a block away. The river here is very shallow and there is a dam further down stream. It’s extremely rare not to recover someone who has drowned in this part of the river, so long as there are no flood conditions (which there wasn’t at the time). It would be difficult for an adult to drown in this part of the river. Sadly his family may never know what happened to him. Other than legally being declared deceased there’s no closure.
.
Oh and yes, sometimes the folks here lack imagination when naming business. Don’t drink the river water!
Wow, you were so close to this case in a sense, it has baffled me I feel like he might’ve taken his life but because he was so intelligent, he might have made it look like that was the last area he was in so he could’ve left the area to take matters into his own hands, so his body could not be found maybe possibly to spare his loved ones The immediate knowledge of his suicide and may be for insurance purposes, however, it could’ve been Foul Play yet how would people who were after him know that he would not be at work and find him miles away? Unless they were following him & instructed him to dispose of his laptop & took info from it But It just doesn’t add up entirely in either scenario!
I live fairly close maybe 30min from Lewisburg. I was at Penn State at the time this happened it was crazy.
One of the things that are very effective of Dr. Grande's presentation style is repeating/clarifying certain points to ensure understanding.
Hi Dr. Grande. You put so much time into your videos. I appreciate that your content is done on an average of 17 minutes but is packed with the pertinent information. I love your analysis of the cases you cover.
My favorite channel by far. Thanks you for all your hard work.
THIS!
Great points on depression. It's been said attorneys are in top 10 careers for high stress. Happy Sunday & thanks Dr G😊💚💚
Do you think it's possible for someone to be depressed and not even realize it? Maybe attributing it to something else by mistake?
@@BucketHeadianHagg Not sure if you mean me but yes I do. It's a sneaky thing. 💕
@@zenawarrior7442 yes, i did. Thank you for the reply. I asked because there was a couple of times in my life where i thought i might have been a little depressed, but wasnt quite sure. Im so lucky to not be afflicted in that way, because it feels so terrible and dark when it happens.
@@BucketHeadianHagg Very welcome. I'm no Dr G lol but I know more people are affected than we realize. It is dark & scary...very hard to see past those times. Glad you are OK. Thx for messaging 💚💚
This happened where I live. I recently listened to two podcasts about this. But in the end it’s still a mystery. Also, the street of shops in Lewisburg is awesome. Wonderful stores of all types of antiques and interesting finds.
Your consistent uploads really make my day, hopefully you’re staying safe, healthy, and happy though, Dr. Grande. And thank you for your hard work. 😇
Why safe ? Elaborate please
It always amazes me when items belonging to a missing person are found in obscure places and turned over to police. I've found tons of trash in various places over the years and never once thought to turn it in to police because it might be connected to some horrifying crime.
Ah, but how about now you HAVE heard all these stories??! Only interesting thing I found was a number plate...I reported, police came, it was from a stolen van and police took it, and the drink came with it.🙂🇬🇧
I think illegal dumping is a way more common crime than conspiratorial murder. This trash must have had something exceptional about it is all I can think because there’s a lot of junk that no one would bother noticing police about. You’re right for sure about that.
Or, this is s rural area without a lot of news, and so everyone was aware of the missing DA and the fact that his laptop was found without a hard drive, so when people saw one, they thought "Oh, this might belong to that missing guy"
Probably because a horrifying crime hasn't happened in your area so you wouldn't be aware of what might be an important clue.
Same here. An old broken hard drive in a river.. it woulda never even register beyong my retina. Am I irresponsible?
Lol, Street of shops! The way Dr.Grande "analyses" the mind of the person who gave the street its name, hahaha!
This my kind of humor, keep them coming Doc!
I live by the street of shops, funny enough it's not actually a "street of shops" it's all in one giant building that holds tons of different vendors things with all the junk/antiques in the basement. I loved listening to him talk about my home towns!
@@daniellewert6864 Your description of it makes the streetname even weirder, lol!
I can imagine that it is funny to hear him talk about your hometown.
Greetings from Limburg, the Netherlands!
4:09 I'm actually surprised *Street of Shops* became the bud of this episodes obligatory levity, as opposed to the surname *Fornicola,* which leaves little to speculation as to the nature of her relationship with the subject. That being...... - *FORNICATORY!* 😄
I have always had my own theory in this case. I believe somewhere somehow he decided to leave the country and start over. He wanted to do his retirement away from everything that was going on in his life currently. I believe he found somebody in the network of people that obviously he has to work with due to his employment, and found someone that could get him an ID, maybe he traded some deals within a court system for some cash, met with someone to get a passport and some information, and headed off overseas. I still think he’s alive, living somewhere else. He definitely had the connections to be able to do that. I believe the cigarette smoke was the individual that he was meeting up with to obtain a passport, money, etc. The hard drive contained information about probably helping somebody, and or contacting this individual, so it had to be destroyed. I don’t think there’s any evidence that he’s actually dead and that there’s more evidence pointing to the fact that he took off.
I believed that’s what happened, 100%
Same. The Slovenian connections and fluency are very intriguing
I agree with you He must have started a new life in an other country I think he had another bank account with a lot of money on it He had never loved his job.
I was actually a student at Penn State when this happened. Some of the details are different but I think he skipped town too.
I think this is one of the few disappearance cases where "He skipped town to start a new life" has an actual chance of being true. But who knows. I doubt it's murder - too many hints beforehand (internet searches, hard drive, "not going to ber here").
I listen to your videos every night. Your voice, at this point, is like ASMR for me. Thanks for your daily videos! 🥂
I agree! Very soothing voice and always relaxes me
Same...it's 3 am.
I live in State College, PA and I remember this case. I don’t recall hearing that his brother had committed suicide so that is really interesting. It’s one of our great mysteries along with the disappearance of Cindy Song.
Also, a State College resident and I agree that this is like Cindy Song. I remember hearing from the get go about his brother though. I wonder if either case will ever be solved.
I was a student at Penn State at the time it was so weird.
Good morning Dr. Grande and all of his subscribers! I hope y’all have a great day.
Destroying evidence then disappearing doesn’t make you look suspicious at all.
Lololololololololololololololololol. The more treacherous the position, the “responsibilities of that position will eventually run a toll on one’s life. As continuing to make money and stay in whatever position (after that experience runs its toll) isn’t everyone’s interest. Especially if and when someone physically and mentally starts to feel sick from what they can sense. Trust and believe that when they are well aware of who they’ve been during their life time and know how to put 2 and 2 together……….and they’re smart. They will adjust accordingly.
As DA he easily could have accepted cash for favors, leaving no records of such transactions behind.
EDIT (after reading PhilLesh69 reply):
The fact that he was adept at storing up his own wealth under other peoples' names also means he could have had additional sources of undetectable resources.
Convicts and criminals out to kill him, ex-wives collecting monthly checks...seems like disappearing without a trace was a good retirement plan and that he would be the kind of person to take his time setting everything up in advance.
Only speculating about what might be happening in a situation like this, of course.
I think you might be onto something, that would explain how he could afford to start a new life and "delete" his old one.
A guy who shielded assets by putting them under other people's names knows how to make blind and untraceable transactions. He hired a night mover. They met in a flea market parking lot and talked in his car before he got into the mover's vehicle.
@@maureeningleston1501 I still feel around 70-80% likely he committed suicide. I will admit though, his finances leave me confused. His job paid $200k/years with great benefits. Even with 2 divorces, I can't see how he had next to no real assets. My suspicion is he had some addiction people didn't know about - most likely gambling, possibly drugs. Even if that were the case, we need to keep in mind that he was about to retire and given his long tenure as DA, he almost certainly had a six figure a year pension in retirement. It's hard to see someone faking their death to start a new life, giving up a fat pension.
This was my thought. I think he just stashed cash, and arranged to disappear. That makes the most sense to me.
@@PrecociousFriand and this super analytical, intelligent DA searched how to destroy a hard drive... on a computer, the hard drive of which he did not destroy?
If he intended on disappearing without a trace, wouldn't he have conducted that search on the laptop he was about to fry and ditch in a river?
These unsolved cases where people just vanish are fascinating. I wonder if there is a bar somewhere where all of the people that do start a new life hang out at.
Probably in the Bahamas. Unrelated to that though, after World War II a lot of people did use the chaos and population displacements to do just that. I read something about two people who fabricated stories about being Holocaust survivors meeting each other and each being afraid the other would spot holes in their story because each one thought the other had really been at the camp they were pretending to have been prisoners of. I decided it’s not worth all that sneaking around; I’ll just face my problems.
That bar is called The Second Chance.😊
Yeah there is 👀……………..and they sit and discuss all their regrets with each other, while analyzing the trajectory of all the awful experiences that led them to choose a disappearing act over everything.
This was a super interesting case. Good job, Dr Grande! I hope they find him living like a king somewhere someday. Also, I love the color combo of your shirt, and how the lines match up so perfectly!
Being an district attorney is very stressful, could be that the stress got to him.
Great video Dr Grande!!! Have a rest Sunday!
Most district attorney's are corrupt that's why they are stressed they don't give a crap about Justice and I hope they burn in hell for destroying innocent good lives with corruption
Or maybe it was the fact that he was"dirty" and THAT'S why he wanted to disappear
So he had 2 ex wives that were draining him dry financially. Yes, can't understand why he'd want to completely disappear and restart a new life.
Did anyone track his finances , if he withdrew money and took off 😁?
Lesson for all: be VERY CAREFUL who you marry!
😮😄
@@elizabethcompton738 Rather, don't get married at all.
😂😂😂 that’s what I thought as well.
I'm leaning towards theory number 3 also. If he was losing weight, perhaps he got an awful diagnosis about his health and wanted to go on his own terms. Very sad and puzzling case!
Really great video, Dr. Grande!
I love how you explain all of the theories and how probable each one is in relation to the case. Thank you for your analysis Dr Grande! Always informative!💙💙
My theory, at least for the destruction of the hard drive is that there was probably something on it that if people knew about, would damage his image. It wouldn't have to be illegal, it could just be some kink that people would think is weird and he'd forever be associated with it.
Great thorough analysis, weighing all possibilities. Analytical and intelligent.
I love this channel… shocking yet interesting subject matter delivered in such a soothing, calm voice! I suffer with anxiety, but fascinated by true crime and psychology!
I thought Sandusky immediately. Love your work Dr G✌️💙
Your speculations are awesome!
If you actually diagnosed someone, we couldn't handle it. 🤷🏻♀️
That was a brilliant video. Thank you Dr Grande ,
It sounds like he met with a "night mover" in that parking lot, where they briefly sat together in his car and discussed the relocation process and exchanged payment before he got into another vehicle to "disappear" in.
except theres no record of money being taken from his account around that time more than usual
I'd like to think so, too. Unless his weight loss was caused by a terminal illness. He hang out in Slovakia. He's smart enough to be paid in cash for legal advice? And store it away somewhere?
@45 Jugga🥷🏾 but the money has to be moved off shore, so there would be records of big amount of money being taken from the account he gets his salary paid into
@45 Jugga🥷🏾 very unlikely and just no motive for it. If he wanted to he could just resigned from his job and move to Slovenia or wherever. No reason for him to go through all pf that
@@sponish0 the count they know of
"I guess it was an early day for him." --literally this close to shooting my drink out my nose with that line.
“Maybe she gave him a car and he drove away” 😂🙌🏻
I remember reading about this case. Maybe one day there will be an answer. People just don't disappear into thin air.
Jimmy Hoffa.
@@mircat28 well you got a point. But it’s undoubtable he was murdered
They do it everyday.
@@corigram Jimmy Hoffa's body has never been found
Love your channel, you are SO calm.
The street of shops bit cracked me up “maybe it was an early day for him” 😂
Once again, top notch content and comedy from Dr. Grande!
I think i might’ve seen you laugh for the first time ever while you were explaining the lack of creativity in whomever named the “street of shops” 😂👍
Grande laughs quite a bit with his 2 colleagues on his podcast, The Murder Part. Highly recommend it.
@@brendaforevergreen7436 thank you, i have not listened to his podcast yet but will do 🙏🤙
Check out his video on the politician involved with the thrupple. The outtakes at the end are hilarious!
nice peach colors today happening :) Bella Grande Media is awesome :) nice plant placements :) intressesting analysis
Wall is kinda bleak.
I find the cases of people vanishing with no trace really intriguing.
Even on a Sunday Dr. Grande has a new video! Many thanks Dr.!
I wonder if his loss of weight was due to a terminal illness which contributed to his decision to take his life.
This is a good point. The fact that he was not married at the time and his body was never recovered means we'll probably never know. I do think it 70-80%~ likely suicide was what happened here. Nearly everything points towards that.
I'm certain police would have followed up on that angle by talking to Ray's physician. Severe depression can cause weight loss also.
@@fashiondiva6972 LOL Right?!! LOVE your comment.
Pretty obvious it wasn’t suicide
Agreed. Weight loss and looking frail sounds pretty sick to me. If you didn't want anyone to know, you'd just go to a doctor out of your area. Plenty of people choose suicide over prolonged illness and misery. Sad either way.
Nah because I’ll never be convinced that this had nothing to do with the penn state stuff lol. Thanks for covering this one, doc!!?
Absolutely right.💯
Ray’s story should be made into a drama movie ….
I wonder why it hasn’t
🤔
@@Overthoughts because there is no ending
@@hooper4581 They could make one up. The Coen's just might get another Fargo out of it.
There was an episode of 'Disappeared' on him. I know it's not the same as a movie.
@@itsmackenzie I saw that too, but forgot about it! Sure been a long time, poor guy. I don't think he is alive.... either by choice or murdered.
We don't know what people are thinking, no matter how normal they act. But, then having a smoker in the car, would not make sense either! I hate cig smoke too....my car has never been smoked in and you could tell in a second if so someone did....not to mention I would knock them silly!! 😬
Thank you for your production & excellent content
I usually disregard the "new life" theory as extremely unlikely, but in this case, I'm not so sure... He seemed smart and organized enough to do this. And maybe he actually had more money than we think (for instance, properties in the name of other people or something like that).
I'm not saying this is the most likely theory, but it seems plausible.
Yes. I like this theory best myself.
Agreed.
Abandoned pension though?
@@rabefamily9146 Ray's family petitioned the court to have him legally determined to be deceased. I would imagine that his pension then went to his step-daughter or to Patty
Witness protection?
Good evening, Dr. Grande. I'm binge watching you! I'm from Pennsylvania, and Thank You for covering this!
My theory is that he was there to purchase a new dust filter for his Hoover Max Extract Pressure Pro model 60.
That's a quality vacuum, there's no doubt about that!🧹
Nice. I’m rewatching for the third time. 🚌💙
Turbo suck
Thank you DOC - I enjoy your streams, delivery of info and sense of HUMOR
The guy who named “Street of Shops” is likely related to the guy who named the Houston Texans football team.
Nakidz: I'm from Australia, what is the name of the Houston Texans, or is that the name?????.
@@cottontails9003 Yes, it’s our professional American football team’s name lol. They’re the Houston Texans (the Texans from Houston), like the Miami Dolphins, but with no imagination. It would be like calling the Miami team “The Miami Floridians.”
@@Autumn_Forest_ We have Rugby league here ,.my favourite team is called the rabbito. We also have the roosters,the titans ,the storms ,bull dogs,the warrior and the bronco also the cowboys and on and on it goes. Thank you Nakidz
@@cottontails9003 See, those are nice names (we have many of the same names for our teams). They just dropped the ball (pardon the pun) on the Texans. What a boring name! When I first heard it, I was like 😳🤔🤨👎.
@@Autumn_Forest_ oilers was a great name
Thanks, Dr. Grande, for doing this one. I love your show.
I strongly agree that he ended his own life. I think he was methodical and as such, he planned his ending in the same manner. Destroying the hard drive was part of his plan. Furthermore, reports from people saying that he wasn’t depressed are irrelevant because depression is easy to hide, unfortunately. In addition, for people with depression there is usually one or very few factors that keep them going. Maybe for Ray that was his profession, without which life would lose its purpose.
Excellent analysis Dr. Grande, thank you.❤️
Great and thoughtful comment. I appreciate people who are good at analyzing the facts, as you are.
@@lisas8244 Thank you, that’s a very kind thing to say.🙂
@@rejaneoliveira5019 You're so welcome! Just telling it like it is. It's wonderful to be able to have an intelligent discussion on a mysterious and perplexing subject.
This is a curious case. Enjoyed the vid, Dr Grande.
There are "nighttime moving companies" in Japan, and I'm sure here as well, who help people move into completely new lives leaving little or no trace behind.
_It all started in a bar in Paris, back in 2008, when a friend told Lena Mauger a story. It was about a Japanese couple who had disappeared. They hadn’t died. They weren’t kidnapped. They just deliberately vanished in the middle of the night without explanation._
_And this wasn’t just a one-off, mysterious occurrence. According to Mauger’s friend, it was a phenomenon. In Japan, thousands of people each year became johatsu - “evaporated people” - driven underground by the stigma of debt, job loss, divorce, even just failing an exam._
Being from PA I recall this happening😢 Thank you for your analysis ✌️ I have to agree 💯
Even though the *D.A.* went missing, our *Daily Analysis* from Dr. Grande keeps on coming. DA, vs *D.A.*. Thankyou Dr. Grande.🌹😇🌹❗️
🙂
This is a tough one but once again fantastic work 👏🏼
The cigarette smoke and ashes in the car are puzzling. I'd have thought suicide, if not for that. I don't think he was running away to start a new life, either. Anything's possible, this is a real head scratcher. Thanks for this intriguing case, Dr.Grande.
And for wearing that shirt! Love the colors and it really looks great on you!! 🧡🧡🧡🧡🧡🙂
Time to call in Sherlock Holmes because your right!
Some things dont add up!
A real who dunnit!
🔍👀🎭 😉😘
@@erikparent8176 Nothing in this one adds up. It could be any of the scenarios Dr. Grande gave. Good evidence FOR all three and AGAINST all three. Hmm. Yes, better call Scotland Yard on this one! 🧐 🔍🔎🔦
@@JustDr.S Might as well call Interpol. Lol
@@cottontails9003 lol. Yeah, them too! Might as well get the whole world in on it! Love your user name, btw. ❤
Thanks for using the suggestion. Informative as always.
I would have never guessed retirement could be a stressful transition. I always thought it was happy time. Dang. Great video Dr. Grande
There’s a concept in psychology about eu-stress and dis-tress. Distress is self-explanatory but eustress is associated with ostensibly positive events, like getting married, welcoming a child, retiring etc. though these are positive events for most people, they still signal a significant change in their lives; there are new habits and patterns that have to be established and it often accompanies changes to one’s financial situation.
I’m in my 30s though so retirement sounds like a lot of fun to me 🤣
@@esteemedmortal5917 thanks. That makes sense. Im in my 30s too and counting down the days to retirement 😂😂
I saw him being interviewed in an episode of: The FBI Files on TV. It was about a case of a 17 yr old girl who disappeared, but was later found to have been killed by a truck driver she hitched a ride with.
Dr. Grande, you had mentioned that Ray became frail and had lost some weight, and when questioned about a date to set for a trial he replied he wouldn't be here. I can't tell you, other than intuitively, but was Ray physically ill and going through treatments? Does his medical records provide any clues?
As a resident of Central Pennsylvania, this case is very intriguing to me. So many puzzling facts ...
I remember hearing this story before and I thought then that he was murdered by someone he thought he could trust. Now, however, I think he took off. They never found his body and the fact that the hard drive was destroyed doesn't point to an outsider but does to a person in the know; like an attorney. It surely is a mystery.
I wonder if you have any inclination to do the story on the Alex Murdaugh case which is going on right now.That is one strange case.
Very interesting case. Thank you Dr. Grande.
Grande keeping this dress shirt company in business. Give my boy a sponsorship.
Its beyond me why he does not have a clothing sponsorship!
Dr. G. needs an agent!
Love your videos!
Wow! That was a curious tale. I hope he's living a secret life somewhere but it seems unlikely.
Doc, please do a video on what's happening in Texas with the ban on abortion and the $10,000 reward for turning people in😩 Would love your calming analysis of the situation! Love all the content🙌💙🌈💙
In my country we have a ban on abortion except in 3 cases:
1. Mother's life is in danger
2. Mother was raped
3. Mother has the knowledge that her baby is retarded or very ill, so much so the kid would be a burden on her life and the kid will always require being cared for, it cannot live on its own.
We are pretty much a conservative nation and I like it. There's no racism here, no xenophobia nor homophobia. It's all a myth that being conservative is somehow being backwards, we love our nation and country, we have plenty of Vietnamese here, 300.000 Tatars who are Muslims but consider themselves Poles and love our country, recently we have more tourists than usual because we don't have lockdowns and masks are needed only in public transport and businesses that require it, and I like it. Although, like in USA, the leftist European media attacks us on every turn, that our government is authoritarian and does not abide the law, both claims are of course ridiculous, they don't live here, we do. Our left has been infected with ideas from USA and when they can't get their way, they go abroad to complain to daddy and Eurodeputives from the left always vote against our interests, which makes them traitors in our eyes. Jews hate us, because our president signed a law, that forbids them to try and get estates, as our president said: "we will not pay for German crimes during WW2". It's rather terrifying that we beat communism, only to see the West succumb to it.
It's not banned it's just not allowed after six weeks. Just drive to Cali for your abortions. They encourage them and will probably do it for free.
@@belladonnahigh9206 Are you Polish? I wish Ireland were like the eastern European bloc. They seem to be the only EU members fighting against the EU. The UK left, but everyone else just goes along with their hideous ideas. One of the reasons Ireland even had an abortion referendum was pressure from the EU.
@@lynncrf yep, I'm from Poland. It is like you say it is, everyone goes with the flow except for us, Hungary and 2 other countries I think. We're fighting strong for our values and tradition. Unfortunately our left has gone off the rails, like the rest of the Western left, including Northern America. Canada is where the disease started, spread to USA and everything USA does, the left in Europe copies this and it's terrible. The amount of propaganda against our country is immense, they accuse us of not following the law, racism, alphabet community phobia. Nothing they claim in their little articles is true, our constitution forbids forming fascist, nazi or communist parties, so they should look in the mirror first. They want us to be like them, and are pissed off we're largely conservative. And if someone is killed here "it's because we're conservative", again look in the mirror and see how many deaths and rapes are occurring in their "paradises". Some idiot in an article in US called our party far-right, totalitarian etc. I don't think he was ever here. All unfounded lies. Twitter removed one of ours politicians simply for saying there are only two sexes.
You just can't be left alone, leftism is creeping into our country, but I hope we will prevail. What the left is doing is just double standards.
Cheers my Irish friend.
Wow Dr Grande, quite a mystery this time. Great presentation of the known facts. I would go with a combination of both your first and second theorys. I think Ray may have had an upcoming case where his life and/or the life of his girlfriend was possibly threatened by the convicted person or associates over a period of time. The deal was that if he handed over the laptop with the hard drive removed which contained unshared files of incriminating evidence to this person at an agreed meeting place, Street of Shops, they would back off and leave him alone. With all this looming it might explain why he lost weight due to stress and fear of what was happening. He may well have been anxious and depressed too. He subsequently met with this person who got into his car smoking a cigarette but instead of just taking the computer he also killed or disabled Ray enough to move him to his own vehicle along with the laptop and hard drive without leaving evidence behind apart from the cigarette ash in the Mini Cooper. He then took the destroyed hard drive and laptop and ditched them in the river and disposed of Ray's body somewhere that it has never been found. So many possibilities for a man who spent his life making enemies with the lowest of the low. It often baffles me that there are not more violent crimes against District Attorneys because of this - perhaps there are? Thank you Dr Grande for telling this complex tale so well as usual. You are very busy these days 😁
"Maybe she gave him a car and he drove away, who knows" lmao Dr Grande couldn't resist an opportunity to make a jab at Oprah
Thanks, Doc.
It’s time we all put our heads together to Name That Cactus! Who’s with me? I vote for ‘Noreen’.
Snarlsjeen, could call it Aussie.
@@cottontails9003 love it
Betty 🌵😉
It's always Cact-_us._ What about Cac-_them?_
4:57 That subtle whiff gets me every time, Doctor.
I understand your logic and why you reached the conclusion you did about Ray but I would like to think that Ray just wanted to start a new life. The part that seems strange to me is that they never found his body. If he had been murdered they would have found the remains of a skeleton somewhere or a bone fragment from his body been taken to a wooded area an animal. Had he thrown himself into the river that in spite of being shallow water from what I gathered from your presentation, the river would have carried it to some destination and it eventually would have washed up.
Ray was not stupid, if he was going to drown himself I don't think he threw himself into the shallow end of the pool as they say, that wouldn't really be conducive for an unsuccessful outcome of killing oneself, if that's what one wanted to do.
I hope Ray just "ran away from home," & somewhere in some obscure town he has an Antique Store that specializes in Vintage Cameras.
This is one of the most interesting cases I've ever heard about.
Hmmm. Frail. "I won't be there any more". Could it also be that he was terminally ill and went to end his life away from his usual surroundings?
The Breaking Bad Scenario Lol
HI, thank you for this video, as well as for all of them, I enjoy how professional you are and informative. RE: Ray Gricar. I live a few towns away from Lewisburg, and this case created quite a stir locally, it was actually very shocking. The local assumption has been that he was killed and someone else destroyed the hard drive: his background as a DA indicated his familiarity with people who were likely to be prosecuted by him and people there talked about the mafia/drug dealers who 'had it in for him'. I was told that he was very happy with his partner and that they were considering getting married. There are many places around there to dispose of a body, one that was mentioned was a steep drop off at Shikellamy State Park. It would have been impossible for this are to be searched it is so steep: also impossible for dogs to search here. Re: the cigarette smoke smell: he adored his car and would never had had a smoker in it. Perhaps it is just too hard to accept a suicide for him !
If he has Slovenian roots as is found online, his name would be originally pronounced Gričar (greechar).
Interesting, thank you!
And being fluent in Slovenian, "Gree-car" may have been a concession to avoid the endless "creature" jokes.
@@peccantis It is also common to go with Gricar (greekar).. My name is the same, it's pronounced Chernelich, but in English I would use Cernelic (Sernelik).
Excellent analysis ☺️
Cigarette ashes in the car are the biggest clue that he wasn’t alone in the car. suicide or not someone sat in his car and I’m inclined to believe he was deliberately killed
I first read about this guy in connection with Penn State -- Jerry Sandusky situation.
I lived in State College when this happened. It’s a real mystery
I grew up and still live in the town he was the DA at in bellefonte. I was just a teen when he went missing but I remember it was a huge local news story and still is. People think it might have been someone he sent to prison that might’ve killed him. I still can’t believe he hasn’t been found. We live in a very small town so this situation was very surprising.
Oddly enough, in my small hometown of less than ten thousand people I know of two sets of brothers who committed suicide, and I wonder if there may be a genetic disposition for suicide in some people. I have no idea if this was just a sad coincidence but I find those cases odd. Could Ray have been genetically predisposed to consider suicide a viable alternative? Anyone else ever run into this type of shared self destructive behavior? Great job as always, Doctor.
Nah he didn't commit suicide... unless he managed to hang himself or something in my basement...
Both my ex and his brother committed suicide within a year of each other, I think you’re definitely on to something
@@Sea.and.sky. no one can make you kill yourself. I’m not trying to be combative I just think the blame is misplaced here. Otherwise I guess it’s my fault my ex killed himself after our breakup right?
Agreed. My husbands mother had her first husband and their son commit suicide(not at the same time)
When assessing a person for suicide you always ask if family members have committed suicide. It’s an indicator for higher risk. It may be learned behavior, genetic vulnerability, or whatever. Kurt Cobain had 2 uncles who killed themselves.
VERY Interesting episode. Thanks.
Destroying his HDD makes murder seem unlikely.
Yeah, and I'm also unconvinced the cigarettes is any real evidence of murder. His car was found unlocked, so literally anyone (homeless person or junkie) could have taken shelter in his car at some point and smoked. I also think it's entirely possible he *did* smoke on occasion, but was extremely secretive about it. People going to great lengths to hide habits like smoking is far more common than many believe.
He couldn't have been murdered because of one of his cases, and the murderer destroy the hard drive to muddle the reason?
Excellent! 👌❤️
Dr. Grande, it would be great if you could analyze the case of the Isdal Woman.
AND JENNIFER FERGATE/FURGATE (whatever her name was)
I was gonna suggest this guy for a video topic. You beat me to it!
Love the “Street of Shops” aside from Dr Grande haha
Lol right? The only thing lazier from whoever named street of shops would be “shop street” lol
probably the most mysterious case ive heard of in this channel.
Couldn't Patty have done the search? Why assume it was him? Why wouldn't he search on his laptop? I think it was homicide. I have watched other accounts, you did a great job.
His family and those close to him were looked at strongly by the authorities and all ruled out as suspects. I think this was almost certainly suicide, bu if it was murder I think it far more likely it was someone unrelated to him who had an axe to grind, or someone he was involved with something shady with. Even though he was divorced twice, the fact that he had no assets despite having a $200k/year job with benefits makes little sense unless there was more going on - like a gambling problem others didn't know about.
@@chad3232132 suicide is the least likely in this situation.I’ve watched retired detectives talk about this and the two best theories were he ran away from this life or he was murdered. They even said suicide wasn’t likely at all.
I'm from Bellefonte and my mom was friends with Patty back in the 90s when I was a kid. She was a mess I don't think she had anything to do with it.
@@daniellewert6864 What do you mean she was a mess? Do you mean after he died? She definitely seemed devastated on Disappeared.
How much more considerate it would be if people who choose to end their own life would at least leave a note.
OK. I think I’m at the end of the line. I’ve listened too every single Dr Grande podcast to date. Please, get more out ASAP as they are coincidentally perfectly timed to walking my dog. They make otherwise boring dog walks kind of fun. How about a Leopold and Loeb or a Richard Hickock and Perry Smith podcast? Thanks in advance.
Feeling a bit protective here! This man works as hard as any one ever! His work is polished and as regular as clockwork! Many many older videos to rewatch! I do not feel that it is quite fair to expect more!
@@bthomson I think it was mostly meant to be a compliment lol
It's Perry Smith.
Stigggs, are you a therapist or a writer? I’m ashamed to say I’m behind by 3 weeks.
Wishing you and yours a lovely holiday weekend. 😊
i have wondered about this case in the past. mysterious
I'd put the odds something like this.
70% chance of suicide - Just about everything lines up with this for me. His brother committed suicide, which has a well known genetic component. He struggled financially (despite a very good, well paying job). He had multiple failed marriages. It sounds as though he suffered from depression. The evidence suggests he (not someone else) knowingly destroyed hard drives prior to leaving. He also left hints about suicide, which were apparently interpreted incorrectly by others. All of it points heavily to suicide.
20% chance he was murdered - Given his occupation he would have had no shortage of enemies.
10% chance he faked his death and left to start a new life - Seems *highly* unlikely. He had next to no assets and basically left with nothing. Also, he was about to retire and a long-term DA would have had a very large pension. I cannot imagine he'd up and leave all that behind for no apparent reason.
A few other observations:
Evidence of cigarettes in his car - I'm not at all convinced this is significant evidence of foul play and there are multiple possibilities. Even though people insisted Ray hated cigarettes, many people are smokers who go to great lengths to hide their habit. I had an uncle who smoked for 40 years and literally *nobody* in my family knew he smoked in public until he died and the cigarettes were found on him. Ray was known as a very private person and in a stressful job, which makes the idea of him being a private smoker more likely. Another possibility is that since his car was abandoned unlocked someone else, like a vagrant or junkie, took shelter in it at some point and smoked in the car.
The Sandusky case - This is mere speculation, but it has long been rumored that Sandusky was involved in a larger conspiracy of abusing children, with other powerful people involved in the abuse. Potentially someone like say, a district attorney. I am *highly* doubtful this is the case, but I have suspected there is a chance Ray was involved with Sandusky more than people think, and that the hard drive may have contained something shady, such as evidence of his involvement with Sandusky. Like I said, I think this is unlikely but worth mentioning.
Ray's finances - Even with two divorces, his complete lack of any assets makes little sense. His job pays about $200k a year with great benefits. There's no reason why he should have struggled financially unless there was more going on - like a gambling addiction or drugs.
This comment should be pinned by the channel creator.
Good analysis.
He may have been a perfectionist and regretted his handling of Sandusky in some way. Maybe he felt he made a bad decision or allowed himself to be pressured. This guilt wouldn’t help his depression. The laptop is a puzzle though. Why not just leave it at work if he had nothing to hide.
@@rabefamily9146 As far as the hard drive goes, I can speak to personal experience as someone who has suffered from extreme bouts of depression, suicidal thoughts, and some actual attempts. There have been a few times when I wiped my computer hard drives and even destroyed electronic devices prior to a considered or planned suicide attempt. There has never been in anything remotely criminal/illegal on my computers. My own purpose for destroying that information was more about preventing family or friends from finding out more mundane things - like what porn I'm interested in and other web surfing interests they may find strange or confusing. It's more about wanting to keep personal things personal and not polluting the image loved ones had of me after death. That may seem odd considering suicide by definition is probably far more shocking to loved ones than something like finding out what the deceased person's porn habits are, but it was my thinking when suicidal. Extreme depression and suicide typically aren't entirely rational. It could be the case that Ray was destroying evidence to cover up some past criminal misconduct, or it could be something extremely mundane, like what I was trying to hide.
@@chad3232132 Interesting point.
Thank you Dr. Grande, now I’m completely consumed thinking all three endings are possible. 😂
Did they ever try n get dna of the cigarette buds?
You win the internet today! 🏆🥇
Excellent analysis, that for some reason escaped my pea brain!
I've gotta believe they tested them🚬 but maybe not!
Great detective work! 🔍👣
@@erikparent8176 they may not have gotten any hits on the database but atleast they coulda found out if there was a female there
@@eldritchia
Yupper! 😀