How I fixed my BIGGEST ISSUE with Minecraft (with Datapacks/Plugins)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ม.ค. 2025
- Today, we tackle what is my personal biggest issue with Minecraft; the progression from wooden tools to iron tools. It is far too quick and can make repeat playthroughs unchallenging, repetitive and boring. So... I'm gonna change that.
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Hey there! Thanks for watching this video! I’d love to hear some feedback here in the comments! The server is actively being worked on and Id love to hear your ideas!
Also, I’d like to take a moment to point out the criticism that the title of this video is clickbait because I “used mods” to make this. I did not. I used a plugin and my own datapack. A plugin is not a mod as it is server side, not client side. There are no modifications happening client side. This is done so that anyone can enjoy the server without having to install any mods.
So, if the semantics of mods vs plugin vs datapacks really bothers you, then I’m sorry. If the title was clickbait, I would have said “vanilla Minecraft.” Anyway, that’s my one nitpick about my own essay. Perhaps I could have conveyed that better, but hey, ya win some, ya lose some.
Does this server change village trades or the enchanting system?
Yes to both
Will you also make this project available for singleplayer or make a version for singleplayer minecraft? i really like what you''re doing with this project that gives minecraft a much needed progression overhaul, and like how vanilla-like it is. Other mods often go crazy with adding a bunch of useless extra tool tiers that dont do anything unique for progression. I really want to be able to play this in singleplayer.... :)
Where can we get the datapacks and plugins?
I'm going to add some criticism and compliments:
-It would be far better to implement a updated health system that either has a mineral that increases your health or a progression achievement system. It is very unbalanced. Starting with 3 hearts does not account for how AI, generation, or general randomness in the game. When I die ingame it's never because of complacently, well EvP in Minecraft has always felt awful to me.
Most of the time I would die in this game is because of a ghast hitting a piglin for example, or a zombie hitting me through a wall. Simply lowering max health doesn't solve that issue. It would be better to focus on interactivity between losing health than simply lowering it.
The regeneration idea is fine, it seems nice as a toggle option but it would probably be far better to just make base regen slower.
-I like the idea alot for varying weapons and effects, but you should add more building related tools. Imagine a tool that tilts blocks, one that lets you place farther, just options for that creativity aspect for Minecraft help a lot. Terraria has plenty of options to help you build ingame compared. You could add accessories to the game that still feel vanilla, such as the crab claw that was in development.
-Your solution for long term players breaking progression would simply not work without extreme restrictions. That's just putting a metal bar on the solution. If you want to give a genuine solution to this, you'd need to implement a level system. Let's say you need "level 7" to wear iron armor.
"9 Iron bits can be combined for one Iron ingot" so you invented iron Nuggets
Yes, basically except that iron has to be smelted in a forge and not just crafted in a table. Think of it as iron nuggets with extra steps haha
@@TheGeekFactorthat is basically better than wolf or gregtech new horizon progression,you should play them first at least early early game
@@TheGeekFactor Than just have iron ore drop iron nuggets...
Why an ingot? Why not raw iron?
Raw iron nugget?
9:04 ah yes, my favorite healing potion: dandelion opium soup
Haha I just needed some kind of simple, renewable potion. Opium, dandelion soup seemed to be the quickest, most reliable option lol
Just like babushka used to make 🤤
My mans is basically describing a slightly dumbed down Terrafirmacraft mod
Yeah
So he just wants to play vintage story lol. Literally the devs from there made an entire new game and its amazing.
@@samsonthemanson what's the game called?
@@MantasVEVOvintage story.
my ass ain't surviving 10 seconds with 3 hearts
Haha it’s pretty tough at first! Definitely gotta do some strip mining on the first night
@@TheGeekFactor I got a mod in my custom modpack that adds in this limited health mechanic. Despite how hard it's been to play with, I can confirm it adds a really nice layer of challenge and it's actually terrifying to go get iron during the first two days or so
Fŕfr
@@TheGeekFactor That doesn't sound like good gameplay. Why force players into the least fun part of the game?
@@omegahaxors9-11You mean an essential part of the game? You don’t NEED to strip-mine, but it’s certainly the most efficient way to do it. It’s the same as literally everything else in Minecraft. There’s definitively efficient ways to do things, but you aren’t forced to do it that way.
honestly my favorite part of mc is the exploration. then i settle down and things get really boring without someone to play with...
As someone who has been playing minecraft since 2013/2014, minecraft has become very boring, I once played with 5 people in one world (my 2 neighbors and 3 nephews). we started getting bored after 1-2 hours
Literally real life lol
@@Random66860 u have been playing for 10 years, ofc u would be bored
@@Sniff_Lord yes
It's on you to make the fun in Minecraft. The game has many different genres built into it to add flavor to the sandbox nature of it. I like exploring too, but don't set yourself up for disappointment.
...And the issue of inventory management grows
True!!!! A big request since the beta has been some form of backpacks
@@TheGeekFactor Just make custom armor pieces that increase inventory space
@@eeee-m6l impossible within the context of datapacks unfortunately, plugins maybe
@@eeee-m6l There is a mod called satchel that does exactly that. Wish mojang would stop being so stubborn with all the shulker thing
@@TheGeekFactor Backpacks should have been vanilla since 1.0
"Sharing your tools is banned"
"Theft and murder is legal outside of claims"
Oh no, I have stepped outsife my claim without my armor on and with my precious tools on my person! I sure hope my friend right here won't betray and kill me to get them!
My immediate thoughts, there's not a way to control the transfer of items unless there's a hefty and constantly active moderation team surveying each player's interactions. And even then, a bit of theatre would do the trick!
@@rokaq5163 or every tool,weapon or armor is soulbound to the one who crafted it
I think your changes to the health system do not take into account the fact that it makes so many of the preexisting mobs insanely difficult to fight without any real armor or a shield in a way that is not positive for “true survival”
Yeah skeletons are a pain in the ass even with iron armor.
"Tedious" is the word you are looking for, not "difficult"
Yeah sounds like difficulty for the sake of difficulty alone.
It sounds like the idea was "how can we fix progression" not "how can we fix progression and make it fun"
I'd rather play through core keeper or terraria
A few ideas are good though
-build diversity: different materials being good at different things
-healing (almost)
Completely depending on potions/apples seems cool on paper.
But up until you get to that point what do you do? Never get hit?
Resting in a bed should Regen health, food should Regen health at a snails paste at the cost of more hunger
While a lot of these ideas are creative, they just don't fit Minecraft.
Yes, the bed crafting is cool, but the progression seems overcomplicated.
I once opposed the idea of copper and bronze tools, but that's what we need.
Make iron appear less on the surface and require bronze, and add copper/bronze replacement for iron utilities
(Example: copper shield breaks super fast, copper bucket can't hold lava).
For insane regeneration speed, it shouldn't be disabled, or even slowed that much. Better idea is to make it consume more of your food bar, and speaking of it, it should drop quicker.
You want to make food drop even quicker? That shit's already draining way too fast.
@@witherschat I want it to drop faster when player is regenerating.
But honestly, it'd be nice to have food become a real issue for the first two hours of the game.
@@polishscribe674 Food is slready an annoyance from the moment your little spawn saturation bonus runs out to the moment you decide to stop playing a world.
I could see an improvement being slower drain from running around and faster drain from regen.
@@witherschat no, food isn't an annoyance. Setting up a small farm or hunting for some wild pigs solves the problem easily.
Are you really too impatient for the base of every survival game - gathering food?
@@polishscribe674 I have pretty severe ADHD. It's a disability that, among other things, causes me to often lose focus and start jumping around without being fully conscious of it. I burn through food at high speed while doing literally nothing. So yes, it is in fact an annoyance.
I mean I get it. I would've honestly just added copper tools and removed stone tools. But if you're adding shit like Zinc and Carbon into the number of resources you have to keep track of, you're commiting the exact same mistakes that make the one million and one tech mods suck ass. You understood the problem but the solution was misguided, and just made another bad tech mod.
I don’t think it’s that complicated. There are a total of 8 bits. All of which come from the three alternative stones. It’s incredibly simple to understand. But hey, it’s not for everyone and I appreciate the comment!
@@TheGeekFactor I have come to realize my attitude was harsh, and I apologize for that. There's just lots of design decisions that I disagree with. Like the addition of new ores or alloys, knowing that so many of minecraft's existing resources already have very barren utility. Or the addition of "Liminal Resources" that only exist to be the middle step to crafting one or two things and has no value whatoever by itself. Or new resources that do the exact same thing as something that already exists, like the iron bits that are effectively just iron nuggets with a different name.
Iron bits are functionally different than iron nuggets due to their implementation. Not only is iron more rare in the world, but the ore now drops 0-9 bits which have to then be smelted in a forge. That alone is radically different from nuggets.
@@TheGeekFactorI think it's a matter of nuggets are segments of an ingot. Nuggets are for chains and lanterns I think, and they make ingots. So since players are used to nuggets having bits seems jarring and an addition for the sake of it. Why not give nuggets all the functionality of bits instead of making a new resource?
I don't care either way just clarifying what the confusion may be.
this definitely isn’t vanilla minecraft… that being said this is so awesome and I would love for this to be a game mode and I would totally play this as someone stuck in the instant progression burnout loop.
It's supposed to change vanilla, just think of it as what Minecraft would've been if progression was directed by this guy
I feel like this time around you took a good segment of progression and overcomplicated it needlessly. I like the way Iron is now. I play survival, yeah, but I'm a builder. If I wanted to spend 4x as long making a single tool, I'd play a different game. In Minecraft it makes sense you get Iron tools fast because anything below is borderline unusable for anything larger than a starter hut.
Exactly these changes he proposes are not flexible they just make you play only in one way. The rigged nature of those changes discourage playing other playstyles and being creative because you are constantly trying not to die making it extremely hard to focus on doing anything else.
The thing is Minecraft is not ment to be exclusively survival it is a more sandbox adventure type game with survival elements. The game gives you the freedom to choose what you want to do with only some barriers to overcome throughout the game. Thats why a vast majority of the games content is optional it is soposed to be a adventure of your own making with a simple progression path that is the foundation of your adventure.
Its a game that does not tell you what to do. You choose to do what you find fun
@@Gigi4u the nature of these changes is to facilitate a more complex and progression focused survival game for his server. If you don't like these changes because you admit you're more of a builder, than clearly the changes arent for you. As someone that really loved vintage story for its progression, I would welcome changes like these.
Not saying you are wrong, just that its obvious that players who approach Minecraft for different reasons will have different wants out of how the game functions.
I have honestly always loved the concept of alloys in the game so that you are always choosing between different strengths and weaknesses.
I agree it feels a bit complicated with the whole forge system but I think that other than that it's perfectly fine for people who play the game for the survival aspect and not the building. I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't be immediately building a mega base or even a smaller, high detailed one. If you want to go into it immediately building just play creative.
@@enozlliks7794 you just need to be a skilled builder to make a nice house/fort aut of common materials. It's not that hard.
Also the reason why a good chunk of builders prefer playing in survival is because of the limitations the mode has. No infinite blocks and no flying for most of the game. It makes players resource manage and think about how they will build something with the limited resources and gravity imposed on them.
A great example is hermitcraft were they defeat the dragon in episode 2 or 3 but chose to keep playing because it's fun building, resource managing and plan out future builds.
Survivals rules are just flexible enough to allow for a lot of creativity to be had playing it.
@@Gigi4u Well a lot of this is just subjective. I personally don't like having to deal with getting all the blocks I need, then having to halt building because I realized I don't have enough of something particular or got a new idea. I just don't like having to maticulously plan everything out, but I understand that some people enjoy that. You still have vanilla mc where you can break the progression to build whatever. So, I don't think that having a more survival and progression focused plugin is bad.
Keep in mind the recipes are simple for a reason, back 14 years ago no one knew anything and there was no recipe book.
Minecraft's progression was you figuring out how to craft wood/stone tools. And figuring that out from scratch was HARD.
This isn't a critique, more highlighting that most of these systems were added 12-13 years ago for a very different looking game and audience.
He could just add an command to the server as a form of guided book, like Terraria do (but this time you can acess it anywhere)
And that’s why we have a recipe and guide book haha
You can't ban the ability to shere items since that is apart of survival working together to survive especially with the stuff you have done
Something I usually do is pretty simple. Having a mod which changes the stone tool recipe to use actual stone and iron smelting into nuggets
Better kill iron golems
As simple as that is, it feels like it would fix early progression, even if only a little bit. But that would go a long way.
What mod?
@@antonionegrea3554 I forgot to mention, but I play on 1.12.2 I use better vanilla for stone tools and hardcore mining for the iron. Note that this also changes gold and diamond spawns
I have yet to find mods like this for modern minecraft, but I believe that these implementations can easily be coded with enough effort. Itd make the new over abundance of ores now have a good counter without changing the core game much at all also while adding little. In the 1.12.2 mod, diamonds drop diamond shard, comparible to iron nuggets as they must be crafted by 9. Also in the mod is rich ore viens that drop normally. However, this doesn't really go long in making mining more interesting, but just prolongs the process. If I were to add something, id suggest maybe adding more process to making armor and tools like shown in the video with the lava cauldron.
At this point you don't survive, you thrive, and to quote a youtuber, survival is more of a "conquest" or "conquering" gamemode, youre more focused on ocupying pieces of land or structures and filling it with torches to stop mobs and items for general survival
14:32 why not use galvanized square steel?
and cover it with eco friendly wood venneers
I kind of feel like all of this just made the game more grind-y. While yes it’s more difficult to progress through, the difficulty comes from making crafting recipes more complicated and tedious.
For example, you made the case that beds are “too easy” to get, but now it’s much harder to get beds and (since you respawn infinitely in Minecraft) it is basically just a huge inconvenience that makes the game annoying. So instead of being able to settle in a place you actually want, you’re stuck near spawn unless you want to run for hundreds of blocks to get your items back. It doesn’t do anything aside from anchor you to the spawn since respawns are infinite anyways and this feature discourages exploration if the player just doesn’t get a bunch of chickens for feathers early on.
I think a better fix for a more survival based version of Minecraft is to just make the mobs harder. They don’t need more health or anything, but keeping them a consistent threat throughout all levels of play is a great way of actually making players afraid to go get iron or diamonds in a dark cave. For example, all spiders could potentially poison the player instead of just cave spiders. Skeletons could have a faster rate of fire. Zombies could be faster than other mobs or spawn with leather armor for slightly more defense. Maybe all mobs are faster, stronger, or spawn more in darker light levels or lower Y levels like deeper in caves. Instead of just messing with crafting recipes, making the mobs earn the title of “monsters” makes it so that even leather armor is more worth using if it means not dying to monsters in caves.
Now, going into caves to get iron becomes a real challenge you want to be prepared for, otherwise you end up dying a lot. Rather than saying “you’re so weak because you have nothing” it’s “you have nothing because you’re so weak.” So now, you still have the option of getting great early-game equipment, but the risk is greatly increased because monsters are way harder to ignore.
If you didn't die 1000 times that wouldn't be an issue lol
That's the point, making MC a survival game, where not dying matters, unlike in current mc where dying is a small deal, even more so like a lot of people play using keepinventory. Not saying it's wrong, just a different kind of game. Current survival MC, as he explained, is not really survival at all but creative with extra steps.
Look, you could even say that current survival mc is just creative with extra steps lmao, so I don't think it's fair to say this is bad just because it's regular survival mc but with extra steps, even though it kinda is, it's more complex and different than that.
Also, keep in mind the dude is using plugins and datapacks, there's limits to what he can or can't do.
@@DeMooniC The thing is dying DOESN’T matter even with the changes. What they suggested doesn’t make dying suddenly matter again if you just choose to play optimally and stay near spawn. Respawning is still infinite, so making crafting recipes harder so that you die more often and don’t have beds does almost nothing except take extra time and limits where you want to go during your playthrough. Traveling far becomes harder if you consider that a “fix”, but it also makes seeds where you spawn in deserts and stuff way more difficult. The fun of Minecraft is being able to just walk to a place you like more, but now you can’t do that unless you have a good enough chicken farm. It just makes playing the game more annoying and discards stuff which use to be fun like exploring since now you’re locked in one spot without a bed.
Yes, Minecraft IS a survival game, but it also encourages exploration and wants you to go where you like. This change compromises one aspect for improving the other, and my point is it makes it “more of a survival game” by ignoring all the other stuff it affects.
Also, yes, base survival is creative with extra steps, but this version just ADDS even more steps. Saying “it’s not fair” as a comparison makes no sense because (even if you’re right in comparison to creative) the actual problem is it over-complicates crafting recipes to add gameplay time. I’m not comparing it to creative. The problem isn’t “survival compared to creative” it’s “this survival vs original survival.” Excusing game design that compromises aspects of the game just because “well creative exists” isn’t a good defense.
Their actual goal is to make getting iron and stuff more difficult, and stronger mobs is one way of doing it that doesn’t compromise aspects of the game like exploration. Since caving is one of the best ways of getting iron, making caving difficult with mobs is a good solution and makes it more dangerous to go through ALL levels of play (making diamond/netherite more valuable) rather than just the beginning. Yeah spawns are still infinite, but if the monsters are strong enough to make you not want to go caving until you’re stronger then that fulfills what they wanted. Yeah maybe you CAN put a bed nearby and continue spawning, but it punishes you for doing that because you’re probably going to die more often while you try and get your stuff back.
Last thing: sure they use datapacks, but how difficult is it on a datapack to affect the damage a monster does? Blaming the creativity of the solution on the limitations in this circumstance doesn’t make sense
The problem with making mobs stronger as the players gets more equipment is that it compromises multiplayer making the game more difficult for anyone who joins a server which has progressed to later levels (and is already an issue with elytras and netherite templates) but also havign the difficulty consistent takes away one of they key elements of progression which is feeling stronger. It takes away the main reward.
I think a solution would be having more challenges like trial chambers or deep dark become available overtime. You can challenge them whenever to keep MC's open endedness but gear them towards mid game or late game depending on what the challenge is.
Or actually make mansions and nether fortresses...actually interesting challenges which require some thought.
@@NoMustang273 I think this is actually a really valid critique.
I 1000% agree with making the other challenges in the game actual challenges over upscaling the difficulty overall because to me that’s way funner.
One thing that might fix my suggestion could just be having players who have already been on the world for a while offering armor to their friends.
Another solution could be making diamond and netherite more useful than they already are to scale with the new difficulty. That way they feel just as strong and rewarding.
One point I brought up was making monsters get more dangerous depending on what Y level you’re at. Chances are that the deeper you are in a cave, the more you’re progressing the game in terms of iron/diamonds/strongholds/etc. The intention would be that new players would be safe staying on the surface as they get settled in, and making the choice to go deeper down for resources increases the risk of coming across more dangerous monsters. This would make it so that new players aren’t always in active danger and they have to make the choice to hunt for dangerous resources but be rewarded for their efforts
@@crolithebard4964 I think those suggestions sound really good. Caves are arguably the best "dungeons" in the gae because they involve building and combat since you need to traverse dangerous terrain and deal with mobs.
I think the game also needs more horizontal progression and better weapon diversity. I wish they made tridents and maces to an extent viable alternatives to swords and axes. Plus more enemies like the Breeze which are trickier to fight would help a ton to make the combat part of the game more fun. Perhaps do more stuff with enchantments perhaps.
I think it's admittedly difficult to fix Minecraft's progression without possibly hurting the building aspect because right now, the main goal of better gear is to get more items for whatever you need. The game is ultimately about building which is what a lot of these "fixes" miss so I think when implementing these additional changes, the main goal should be to make the combat loop satisfying in and of itself so it doesn't necessarily need to overshadow everything else and players aren't forced to engage with it if they aren't interested.
The changes are too drastic, it's like you've stripped the spinal cord out of Minecraft.
Yes, to you, these changes may be appealing, but to truly "fix" Minecraft you need to make changes that appeal to a wider scale, millions of people even.
My idea is that the core beginning progression should remain the same BUT give the option to the player to make alternatives before going straight to Iron by balancing a few mechanics.
For example cows and horses should drop more leather and rabbits should always drop hide, spawn in more biomes and produce more than one offspring when bred, in this way players have the option to make leather armor first.
But of course more leather means getting bookshelves faster for the enchanting table, to fix this issue we raise the number of maximum bookshelves required for a max level from 15 to 22, also the enchanting table shouldn't register bookshelves behind other blocks.
Chainmail on the other hand should be craftable using iron ingots and nuggets so that they can fit between leather and iron.
Gold tools and armor should have buffed durability so that they're not useless anymore but not enough so that they're better than iron, and also gold pickaxes should be able to mine gold too.
And since everyone complains about villages, they should be more sparse with less hay bales laying around and less food in their chests. Blacksmith chests are also nerfed: iron armor is replaced with chainmail, iron tools with stone tools, ingots being replaced with nuggets, diamonds removed or replaced with iron/gold ingots and obsidian replaced with flint or coal so that it's harder to get to the Nether early.
Well, there’s a reason I said I fixed “my biggest issue” with Minecraft and not “the biggest issue.” The biggest issue is clearly performance. Java is shit. Haha my $1000 computer can barely record and play Java edition at the same time even with sodium.
But yeah, I am totally aware that these changes are not for everyone and I actively encourage people who don’t like this kind of thing to stay away. Play games that are fun for you. If it’s too hard or too complicated, that’s fine. Just not for you.
@@TheGeekFactorGet lunar client, which comes with optifine.
@@Yukisnow449 Optifine is way less optimized than Sodium.
@@Yukisnow449 Don't use LC. OptiFine is ass nowadays. If he cannot get decent FPS on a $1000 computer, that's most likely an issue of the way his MC is setup (not playing the blame game btw, just is usually the case).
Like for example, I use PrismLauncher, allocate 16gb of RAM to Minecraft so that the garbage collection doesn't be annoying and stutter all the time (although 4-8gb should be fine!), use various optimisation mods (some listed below) and my PC cost was around AUD$1000 iirc.
I can *easily* get 240 FPS (my refresh rate is 240hz) with my specs on 32 chunk render distance (no distant horizons/nvidium/bobby). With Nvidium and Bobby (never got around to testing Distant Horizons yet), I get minimum 240 fps like vanilla, it can go up to 1000 fps depending on how many entities. Usually it sits between 400-600 fps.
My relevent hardware:
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro (x64) [build 19045.4529/22H2]
Motherboard: GIGABYTE B360M H (BIOS version F15b)
CPU: i7-8700 (not OC'd, using default clocks whcich are 3.2ghz and 4.2ghz boost)
GPU: (NVIDIA) MSI RTX 2060 SUPER Gaming X
RAM: 16GB DDR4 SDRAM Dual-Channel 1200MHz (some Corsair shit, it's pretty bad clock for today's standards)
Good Fabric optimisation mods:
Concurrent Chunk Management Engine (improves chunk performance)
Debugify (fixes some small bugs in MC, very very rarely breaks a mod or two)
Dynamic FPS (caps FPS when game is in the background)
EntityCulling (culls/hides entities behind walls so the game doesn't render them)
FerriteCore (huge memory usage optimisations, VERY GOOD for low RAM)
ImmediatelyFast (optimises immediate mode rendering functionality)
Lithium (general performance improvements)
More Culling (culls/hides other things like item frames, very tweakable)
Nvidium (only for NVIDIA GPUs, basically replaces Sodium's whole rendering backend and uses NVIDIA's mesh shaders)
Particle Core (particles optimisation and culling)
Nvidium and Distant Horizons are interchangable and I'd recommend testing both out SEPERATELY.
(Nvidium requires NVIDIA gpu >= 16xx series and Distant Horizons works with all GPUs using LOD scaling)
Other Fabric mods I'd recommend (and with descriptions):
Bobby (bypass server-sided render distance limits by caching chunks) - can be buggy rarely
Cubes Without Borders (borderless fullscreen for Minecraft, not a rat like some other mods are)
Spark (profile your minecraft to see which mods are causing the most FPS issues, highly recommend)
@@Yukisnow449 thats not his point
I need to make a second comment because I just finished the video
This is not Minecraft anymore. This is a separate game entirely. Like what you said about the wiki thing, it's very reminiscent of Terraria, which is infamous for people relying on its wiki. By fundamentally changing the game in the ways you have (complicating everything, like beds, armor, tools, health), you're basically forcing players to play one way, which is your way. By discouraging players to play how they want, it sort of kills the game for them, like famers, explorers, redstoners, etc. It's a sandbox game, not a survival game. I know you've gotten many comments like this one, so I'm sorry if it's repetitive, but I had to say something.
The mode is literally called survival mode. Also just as people are allowed to play Minecraft the way they want to play, people can also add and change things they want to. There's no problem with that
@@jeremy7372 okay, but this is turning Minecraft into something it isn't. Just play a different game at that point.
@@jeremy7372 It’s perfectly fine to turn the game into this if you want to play this way. It is *NOT* fine to go "holier than thou" and say you've "fixed" vanilla Minecraft by tuning it to one playstyle and erasing every other.
@@Chris_Elric minecraft is a sandbox game. part of playing in a sandbox is setting things up the way you like them.
thats why, even in purely vanilla minecraft, you can input seeds, and prior to loading the world you can even set ALOT of gamerules. including toggling phantom spawns, fire tick, keep inventory, etc. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what he's doing, especially so long as he is up front about it so that people know what they're getting into when they choose to log in.
@@sillyking1991 doesn't change the fact that I don't like his ideas. It defeats the point of it being a sandbox game.
21:28 You had me all the way until you said no cooperation
Yea, like how will you have communities if nobody can help each other? Progression isn’t eradicated cause some rich guy gave somebody an iron pickaxe.
@@VengefulAzana and even a rich guy in most cases won't give you OP gear or something
Especially since he builds this whole "harsh mechanics encourage cooperation" narrative earlier in the video.
How do you take a game RIPE with opportunities to do dumb things with friends and REMOVE COOPERATION FROM PROGRESSION????!!??
Progression feels too complicated now imo. If you HAVE to have a wiki just so players can play your game, there are improvements to be made.
Like, maybe instead of trying to salvage the low-tier tools and completely removing the high tier ones, flatten them out a bit. Make wood/stone/gold less bad, and have stone/iron require something extra on top of the normal requirements. Flint for stone tools is a great idea. Maybe Iron could require some additional "thing" too. Split progression is cool, but I think when you're mixing alloys it starts to venture a liiittle too much into the "requires 5 wiki pages to understand" territory.
Biggest complaint with your current system is how pistons, rails, and similar cost 9x more iron. Doesn't feel like the mid-game nerf to iron armor and tools justifies the price hike for these blocks. Heck, a single minecart now costs more than a vanilla anvil.
14:48 "Carbon doesn't really exist in minecraft"
Diamonds: am I a joke to you?
Coal, charcoal, and every plant in existence: are we a joke to you?!
@@HellCromeE *yes*
I think it’s pretty clear that I mean a “carbon item” doesn’t exist lol
@@TheGeekFactor the carbon element block in education edition: 😐
@@TheGeekFactor that could still be substituted for diamond or coal that's what most modpacks that add steel do (atleast the vanilla plus ones anyway)
I'm not too into the low hearts early on, as I'm someone who really sucks at Minecraft combat and such, so I tend to die even with the current set of hearts. This could potentially keep me from doing anything unless it's ironed out a bit. Which, leads to a bit of a criticism I have with Minecraft, where in, it's hard early on and gets easier as you level up. Like, the harder mobs should be harder to get to. Most overworld mobs should be pretty easy, right? I don't know. Like, I don't think the game needs to be easier, just more balanced for the early game. In fact, it can be harder for the late game, as after I get full diamond, everything becomes a breeze, which... also sucks.
Imo all that really needs to change is to make copper tools and armour, make iron require copper, and make iron spawn a bit lower. I would also love if you require shears to get wool, and for villages to only spawn 500 blocks out
THIS. But also make it so stone tools require natural stone instead of cobblestone to craft. The furnace recipe wouldn’t change so it would add that extra little step and make wooden tools feel like they’ve got more time in the spotlight.
Did you just "muh society" in a video about block game being to easy? It isn't a "societal norm" to want the best stuff you can get, it's an innate human trait. Do you really think cave men were sat there, looking at their copper/bronze adorned neighbours and thinking "I don't need earthly possessions"?
Yes. Also, having the best is not an innate human trait. There are plenty of people who are content with what they have in life. There are cultures that breed such heavy materialist mentalities. And I think it has downstream effects to things like our media. That’s not a far fetched statement. lol it’s more founded than your “innate human trait” statement
BUT there I go all debate bro on a Minecraft video when I really shouldn’t waste my time with someone who triggered to the point of commenting about something totally irrelevant to the point of the video. Love ya. ❤️
@@TheGeekFactor Firstly, going debate bro is fine when someone is challenging you. That isn't a problem.
Secondly, I think saying that materialistic ideals are socially founded is just as valid as saying that minimalism is socially founded. I personally think it is far more natural to attempt to secure the highest living standard you possibly can and to maintain it, which is the cause for almost every war out there. There are only three known animals that actively war with each other, and I don't think it's a coincidence that humans and our closest living relative (chimps) are on that very exclusive list. The only thing those three have in common is a tendancy to hoard and store resources. If you're wondering, ants are the third, btw. I know, the imagery of ants going to war is kinda funny, but they have full on battle plans going on. Look into it. It's really interesting.
@@Handles_AreStupid Thanks for mentioning that chimps and ants go to war. I'm gonna have fun learning about this.
@@TheGeekFactor I don't think it's a coincidence that 99% of human cultures develop (even independently) into some form of heavy materialistic optimizing mentality. It's almost like it's an innate human trait...
that's why Tinkers Iguana Tweaks exists. Just by changing the early progression can make a really good experience. Instead of making a wooden pick and speedrun the stone pickaxe, you need to make a custom flint pickaxe from tinkers construct, then leveling it up to level 2 (ig it was Clumsy) to finally mine the next tier
coal is carbon
You should make a modpack that fixes the mc progression.
there already are,gregtech new horizon
Almost every progression mod
There are tons of mods out there that already do this. I can’t code worth shit, so I recommend looking into some others
Glourious Greggificated tools are the best tools.
@@Fangamer1254 no,actually the twilight forest iron wood pickaxe is better than most of gregtech tool in gtnh for some reason
this seems pretty dang good
my one issue is just that there are so many "bits" you can get, it feels hard to keep track of. amethyst armor was a bit of a jumpscare beacause i had never heard of anything like it previously in the vid.
and i think fully fledged textures would help a bunch
love this, hope it goes really far, would love to play :>
OH YOU SHOULD TOTALLY ALSO DISABLE ELYTRA AND BUFF MINECARTS
@@MorrisonScott Yeah elytra is busted
(sigh's in orespawn amethyst)
Man, it feels so wrong looking at the gameplay from the left hand knowing that the right and left look completely wrong. Something Mojang never bothered to fix but really should. Since never understood why the right is a cube while the left is a rectangle.
Love the video though.
Why does it look wrong? I play left because I am lefthanded myself...
@@steffen6987The model of the hand and the animations. My Lil Sis is left handed while I'm right handed however in game. The animations were clearly designed with right in mind same goes to the left hand it wasn't ment to exist.
I would recommend reading rather than skimming since I explained that further down
See, I hear you, but then I remember that Mojang has right handed players hold the bow in their right hand and that has always bugged me
@@TheGeekFactor i mean, TBF, in minecraft you fire a bow one handed, so it makes perfect sense that the bow would be held in the players chosen dominant hand xD
My man just re-invented tconstruct.
My group just started a new server and we have more diamonds than iron. We live near the top of a mountain with no iron to be found, just copper all around. We dug down to the deepslate and find much more diamond than any iron so its actually the limiting factor. Need some for a bucket, a pick for the diamond, cant make hoppers for farms, but our tools and armor are turning blue quick. Its a very strange dynamic.
>delete wooden pickaxe and axe, because they doesn't make sence
>make stone tools require flint instead of cobble
ez
Why wooden tools doesn't make sense
@@Random66860 try to choop a tree with a wooden axe irl or break stone with a wooden pickaxe irl. thats the logic
@@efraingonzalez772 those are both very doable things...we don't do it because....why would we metal is so readily available, and far *better* at doing it. but you could absolutely craft a low quality pick/axe out of wood. and relatively speaking, it would suck about as badly as it does in the game itself.
these are all great ideas and I like how you’ve approached it. But I feel like all that needs to change in terms of progression is to add copper tools/armor, make copper pickaxes required to mine iron ore, and change the stone tool recipes to require natural stone instead of cobblestone to craft (the furnace recipe would remain unchanged). Just my thoughts though, don’t know if all that would work in practice.
You're making the new pack designer mistake of nerfing everything and then forcing players to do things your way which in this case is especially egregious because of how overcomplicated it presents itself as. It's not fun. It's much healthier to give the player options and only remove stuff if it overshadows other things in the pack, because some things simply cannot be balanced.
This approach is perfectly fine for some modpacks, because you download the pack knowing what to expect. But it's not "fixing vanilla", it's turning vanilla into worse [insert every other extrinsically motivated game]
@@witherschat Glad you brought that up because that's a point that really gets under my skin. Instead of taking what's there and trying to make a unique experience a lot of people will immediately jettison any chance at creative liberty by beelining towards "What if it was more like [favorite game]" and it's like how about instead of ruining the game you currently have you just go play that other game instead.
The tool sets thing reminds me of the tinkers survival mod, where you can craft diff weapons and tools that are similar but have different functionalities, like having a bone blade will help you pierce armor whereas having a wooden blade will let you repair it better and such
4:08 Yeah I was thinking something similar. Im playing through a survival world right now, and I used to feel so vulnerable when fighting mobs at night time, the transition to me now having fully diamond enchanted with a shield and crossbow just pales in comparison to what came before, especially because I had one iron set and that's all I needed before becoming pretty stacked.
if each material would have a one item which would be best in its category for certain purpose it could be interesting, also nerfing iron by making its appearance rarer and boosting stats of items made with gold would alrdy fix a lot, or just introduce copper items.. perhaps also boosting wooden stuff a tiny bit and nerfing stoned things as well would make the game more balanced
I personally would likely not play with these changes, but I appaud the effort and creativity.
I’m just waiting for the, “Minecraft is a sandbox game,” people who ignore the survival rps parts of Minecraft to come outta the woodwork and say this video is invalid.
They are already here lmfao (not me, just in case lol)
Hehehe. Sounds like you want Minecraft players to experience Vintage Story.
Shhhh don’t tell them
Okay, look. Just hear me out: copper tools.
Bronze would be better but as a way of combining copper and a new element tin
This would work as a cool mod, but i don't think it would work well in vanilla, you basically made simplified terrafirmacraft. Cool datapack though.
this is an issue, in older versions of minecraft, (I'm talking about versions prior to beta 1.7.3) iron wasnt as common as now, if you wanted to collect 32 iron ingots you had to mine for at least 1,5 hour
Yeah I remember it was much harder lol, now it's free af u don't even need to go deep into a cave at all since you find it on mountains or near the surface very often.
I completely disagree with the progression being a flaw, imagine this scenario: you just got full diamond armor and tools with a couple good enchantments so you decide you can go into the nether, something goes horribly wrong and you lose all of your diamonds. You've Essentially lost everything you have, sire you still have a base and acouple things in a chest but its barely anything, so now if we use your progression idea a player in this very common scenario will take so long to regain that power that you might as well just make a new world, but with mojangs progression its just a good 30 minutes and then you're back to where you were! Minecrafts punishment for failure is so brutal that a short progression system is the only way to go
I think that could be solved by an enchantment or just always having you keep armor on death
Yea what these videos fail to account for is the more ridged and complex the tool progression becomes the worse it will be loosing you items.
In regular survival the feeling of loosing your good items is horrible.
Yes recrafting decent level tools isn't that hard but getting you specialized tools like the enchanted ones is a whole chore in of itself. So i think the games difficulty is fine. Loosing you stuff is already pushing enough.
Yeah and I typically don't play games to feel absolute dread and have to grind for hours just to get back to having fun
You can always set keepinventory on....
@@antonionegrea3554 True, but the game is balanced now not to be too aggravating with it off. I've played with both and enjoy both, but making keep inventory almost mandatory isn't a good idea in my opinion.
I was going to suggest terrafirmacraft since it also focuses on the early game, but it looks like you already know about vintage story which is basically terrafirmacraft.
I wanted to do something similar to TFC without the super hardcore survival mechanics, and I wanted it to be plugins only on the server side, so anyone could join
@@TheGeekFactor Yeah we noticed.
Really cool video! I love it when people take it upon themselves to fix the issues they have with a game. It's something I wish one could do with any game, but most of them make themselves difficult to modify. A lot of people get into game development through modding.
You thought through all of your ideas very well! I like that even though progression is much more gradual and deliberate in your data pack, it still feels like Minecraft. You're still left-clicking blocks to get resources that you can craft together in a GUI, inexplicably able to morph steel plates into a bucket with your bare hands. This contrasts with Vintage Story, which takes a more realistic approach and has you physically knap stone, mold clay, and forge metal to get what you want, everything feeling like a major process. Yet despite your take on Minecraft's progression still feeling like vanilla, it's much more fully realized and challenging, while offering freedom of choice with which tools and armor you want to craft. It's all really cool. I'm looking forward to seeing where you take your data pack!
I was going to post this comment earlier in the day, but I wanted to try to offer suggestions for the issues you mentioned at the end of the video. I'm really struggling, though. They're really tough issues that stem from the way the rest of the mechanics are designed. But as an aspiring game dev, I feel compelled to try.
You mentioned the data pack's difficulty scaring off a lot of new players, as well as exploration being heavily discouraged until you have a bed and decent gear. With the player having only three hearts by default, it's gonna be difficult any way you slice it. But new players might be more willing to learn and explore if you made death less punishing?
Every game needs to strike a balance between difficulty and punishment. I don't think a ton of people realize how far separated these ideas actually are. Just for clarity, difficulty is how hard a challenge is to overcome, and punishment is what happens to the player should they fail. I generally like it when games are very hard, and dislike it when games are very punishing. As I said, your data pack is very difficult at the beginning, but this can be balanced by reducing the punishment. I have a few possible suggestions:
- Lose fewer items on death. Players can spend a ton of time and resources creating their gear, and the fear of losing that to a difficult challenge can be paralyzing. Maybe make it so that players keep their inventory or lose only half of their items on death. Alternatively, put their stuff in a chest on death like some modpacks do so that players don't need to recollect their stuff within five minutes or can even decide to forget it and try again later. If you want more competition, you can let other players steal that chest!
- I don't think it's a bad thing if players can easily set their spawn early on, especially on a multiplayer server where players will often walk thousands of blocks away from spawn before making their base. My main issue with beds is that they let you skip the night, circumventing the game's challenge early game. Maybe provide a way for players to set their spawn easily, but not skip the night.
Of course, you don't want the punishment to be _too_ lax. Otherwise players have no incentive to actually try to survive in their survival game. Difficulty vs. punishment can be a very difficult balance.
You also said that you want players to cooperate with a little bit of competition mixed in. I thought of a potentially fun way to do it. Make chests within a player's claimed chunks untouchable by other players, but let players craft an Interest Chest. These will slowly duplicate any items you put in them... But other players can steal freely! Interest Chests cannot be placed in claimed chunks, meaning a player can't easily protect theirs. Let players craft traps, like mob spawners, that they can place to defend their Interest Chest. I suspect players would have a lot of fun trying to keep their Interest Chest safe while raiding those of other players. I'm not familiar enough with data packs to know what the limits are so I don't know how feasible this is, but it would provide some controlled, opt-in competition.
I'm not sure if these are the kinds of ideas you're looking for. Minecraft means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, so the direction I want to take the game probably differs from the direction you want to take it in some way. But even if my ideas don't mesh with your vision, hopefully they at least get the gears turning.
There’s a couple things I’ve done to try and ease up on new players. One is offer a very cheap absorption potion that can temporarily boost health. Another is offer leather armor from an NPC near spawn for an insanely cheap price, allowing players to quickly get that extra health they need.
I am in talks with my devs about making a “soul bound” enchantment that allows players to keep tools and armor on death.
Enchanting itself is getting a massive overhaul. I’m trying to model it after Skyrim’s enchanting system using souls from enemies combined with scrolls for enchantments to get specific enchanted books and then using an anvil to put them on. It’s a long process that will need tons of testing, but yeah generally I want the experience to be challenging, but rewarding. If you put in the effort, you should feel good about that. That sort of logic is what I enjoy in games, so I want to replicate that for others
What you could do for enchanting is make it require a "material sacrifice" and the material you use could influence what enchantment you get. (Amethyst shard gives fortune, etc.) And there could also be a new recipe book for when you discover material combos
12:00 Diamonds were actually more in line with the progression but they got buffed like 4 times to what they are today, leaving everything else behind.
If i want overcomplicated survival Minecraft, ill just play Terraria.
Not even close to the same, but go for it
"I forced the player to do this"
"This forces the player to do this"
Okay, I understand wanting Minecraft's survival aspects to be cared for a bit more, but forcing players to do stuff in the game built around the idea of being a sandbox, is a bad decision.
Different opinion, I suppose. If this were objectively true, then survival mode shouldn’t exist all
@@TheGeekFactor No. The only things forced in Survival is Hunger and Crafting, everything else is completely optional. _(with the caveat i may be forgetting certain aspects)_
Not everything is well designed _(Phantom and The End)_ but outside of a small subset of poorly designed features, there is nothing limiting you in Minecraft and that's how it should be... at least in a Sandbox mode.
A new Sandbox mode to take the place of the current Survival mode could allow the Survival game mode to be a pure survival experience which requires players to linearly progress their way through the world without being as easy. It can't be too annoying or tedious, the latter being what you did with this Datapack. We want players to give it a chance and have an experience where they can go "I'll play this later" _not_ "Man, this is way too punishing." It's survival, not Hardcore, it should be tolerable for a large majority.
I respect your opinions and believe you did a great job creating a Datapack because I don't have much experience doing so and it seems a bit difficult. I simply believe what you did was too harsh, tedious and complicated for players being willing to hear you out.
I would encourage you to look at the game “vintage story.” It is a game that perfectly encapsulates how limitation can breed creativity, especially in a sandbox.
Forcing limitations on players makes the reward that much sweeter. It’s about the process, not the result
So the thing about minecrafts progression is that it's not the main focus of the game. Building is.
Id say most relatively experienced players could beat the ender dragon the "final boss" in under 2 hour
The reason you get iron so fast is because its the requirement for like 99% of the resources in the game, thus letting players build with almost anything they want at the very start.
Man i would really love to play your datapack with my friends. I think you have the right vision about how to improve the survival aspect in minecraft and i would love to see more of your work onto this game. Keep the good work bro
The fun part to me, is that this issue is even more nuanced than TheGeekFactor says. I can get to iron quickly because I've been playing since release version 1.4.7, sure, but unlike a good majority of players, I can still just casually die to a group of two skeletons in full enchanted iron or full unenchanted diamond or netherite. The issue for me isn't that the early game is made too easy by this factor, and being forced to survive on even less health would make the game even less playable for me. While all of these factors are great for people who don't suck at PvE and PvP, they're not great for me, but that's okay! After watching this video, I've come just a bit closer to realizing what may work better for my own early game experience, and I'm really appreciative for that!
While I do believe that Minecraft’s progression is often rushed through, immediately cutting the player down to 3 hearts, is a bit much, while just removing natural regeneration is a pretty big challenge, especially for new players, that’s another thing, these changes for new players can be insanely difficult and not fun, so, I’d personally suggest changing 3 hearts to 5 hearts, it’s still pretty hard but you could always implement some sort of difficulty, I don’t know I’m not a programmer, when it comes to enchants, I have a few suggestions, take some inspiration from the greatest game of all time (shadow fight 2) you can make it so you have an npc give you random enchants (you decide those) and in return, you’d pay the npc in… I don’t know, you decide that. please consider my suggestions
What you could do for sharpness is use the grinder to increase sharpness. Then sharpness 5 would only last for a few hits until it goes to sharpness 4 then it stays at 4 for a while until it goes to 3 etc then it could go negative with bluntness as well so if you want the best gear you have to constantly maintain you sword like how soldiers did when campaigning
In my total conversion mod, I removed wooden tools altogether and replace them with pebbles you collect from the ground. You can use these pebbles for multiple things, such as throwing them as an early game ranged weapon that deals minimal damage or as decoration in the late game. However, their primary use early on is or making stone tools. This deals with the completely useless wooden tier nicely, from personal experience and feedback from playtesters.
As for Iron, I made it spawn deeper than sea level, so you actually have to go out of your way looking for it. Similarly, diamond is found in the newly implemented deeper caves with new threats such as beefy ogres and ghosts that go through walls and inflict blindness.
I also made gold not suck by simply making it a tier between iron and diamond.
I find this system works much better, whilst still keeping the spirit of the original alive. As an added bonus, my two dimensions have extra ores that can be used to make tools which serve as a direct upgrade to diamond (diamond tool stats but with extra benefits, e.g. the nether ore is just diamond tools that become more effective the more they are damaged, so you are incentivized in keeping them at low health)
The ultimate tool tier will be one crafted from materials found in all three dimensions (overworld, nether and skylands)
How exaclty would that "collectin on the ground" look like?
for villagers you could make it so u cant kidnap them and u have to protect and treat them for better trades, u could also make it so u have to upgrade villages with housing and wall ect to get better trades. for enchanting u could make certain items needed like a blaze rod for fire prot, a conduit for aqua affinity and an anvil for unbreaking
I feel like too much of the progression relies on only mining and using the same cauldron. Giving rare enemies a purpose for killing them and adding more crafting systems would be good.
For guiding the player on progression, an in game solution that might work could be a crafting tree
If there's two place where gold is worthless, it's Minecraft & Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Finally someone said it! It goes from wood INSTANTLY to stone (most people only make a wood pickaxe), and then to iron shortly after... And then its a fair grind to get to diamond. The gap between the tiers is so inconsistent. And the _durability_ between iron and diamond is a huge jump. Iron tools have 250, while diamond has 1561... That's *6 times* as much durability as iron! It almost feels like there's a missing tier that should be between them... I'm SO glad someone finally gets it!
(Perhaps gold was originally going to fill that gap, but then was changed? Idk but its interesting to speculate).
Nah, diamond tools were just buffed a ton to better match how difficult they were to obtain. They used to be only twice as durable as iron (technically the same durability as iron now, iron had half it's current durability at the time), but in the alpha days that was bumped up since the durability of diamond tools should mirror the effort it takes to get them. And even back then gold tools were still garbage lol
Gold would make the most sense for this idea I think
Shoutout to the most useful wooden tool, the wooden Hoe.
You likely don't carry a hoe around everywhere, but when you need one it's right there for a few wood.
everything you mentioned should be possible with pure datapacks and a resourcepack for the cauldron GUI
I do think this is cool… buuut you gotta let the players with cool stuff give it to some weaker players. Yes it destroys progression, but it also forms bonds and just kinda resembles real life.. like- humans build off each other’s progression, and the idea of making everyone do their own thing only happened because of capitalism. Soooo I don’t think that’s a good idea…
Plus those experienced players could even make a small transaction that’d come with it, like “give me x amount of supplies for this armor/weapon” leading to more interesting and varied negotiations.
These are some really cool and creative fixes!
In vanilla without any tweaking my way of twisting progression a slightly different way has usually been to just do away with wooden tools completely and not allowing myself to break wood without an axe, meaning I have to obtain the first stones and wood with creeper blasts which sometimes made things pretty frustrating in hardcore but definitely exciting at the same time. Having to look for flint for early tools is something I think could be pretty cool also, but most of all I've always sorely been missing copper/bronze tools, so I'm glad you're adding them here! Normally I'm not a big multiplayer guy at all, but if anything makes me wanna try playing on a public server, it would be stuff like this
Why are you treating a sandbox progression like an rpg survival/open world progression? And let's not talk about Terraria, it's and amazing game, but it's an rpg first and sandbox second. They are related but very different genres, games often fall on a gradient between the two. Minecraft is mostly a sandbox, so at the very least you need to include farm progression (starting with simpler ones to efficiently get enough resources to build more complex ones). Even if you did, unlike in rpgs, one can lose progress in minecraft so easily that tool and armor progression can't be too long time wise for long-term worlds, people are already often choosing to not get netherite because they don't want to lose it. Also, unlike in an rpg, progression is not really the central piece of most sandboxes, they are allowed to be simple. Sandboxes by definition rely on intrinsic motivations a lot more than other genres. If you lock most of the actual content with a harsher progression system, you are changing the game genre.
Like... these are not bad ideas, but they don't belong in vanilla. They could be a plugin, a mod, anything, but on the scale from sandbox to rpg they shift Minecraft to rpg a little too much to preserve its identity.
Also, the weaker tiers of tools and armor are mostly used in maps and minigames. Nowadays you can set protection and damage values directly, so it's not as useful, but most still rely on them.
Also, different areas of the world have different difficulties, feeling weak and helpless is defined not only by your gear, but also by where you are (ig yous skill level as well). Having just iron in a big unlit cave can be terrifying, maybe even unenchanted diamond if you're not very good at the game.
I read all of this, and I remind you that this is MY personal solution. That’s the beauty of Minecraft. I don’t want vanilla Minecraft to be this when I can just make it myself. This is for my project, my art, so really, I have Mojang to thank for the amazing platform where I am able to create these things
the aether fixes this part of progression by making wooden tools have the ability to duplicate naturally generating base materials, a skyroot shovel will give you two of anything that shovels are most efficient at for each naturally generating one you mine, and a skyroot pickaxe will do the same for non-ore pickaxe things, and the axe is the same for logs, so in my aether only world yes i have a zanite (iron equivalent) pickaxe, but I also carry a skyroot pickaxe with me for every non-ore thing.
Iron bits simulates the experience of playing on a modpack.
It's always nice seeing how different people think up different solutions.
For me, I almost always have Silent's Tools installed, and I always have whatever the highest tier pick I have and a stone pick on me, since I can use the stone pick to do the bulk of the mining and then repair it when I need to, and use the high tier pick for mining ores. It keeps my stone tools relevant while continuously pushing forward my better tools, and since I can always swap out the handle, grip, tip, etc, I can also keep making the stone tool incrementally better.
I feel like if something created to change the progression was added in an update they should make it optional, for example, Survival Mode opens a new bar that allows to switch between different types of Survival: Classic, Pure Survival, Extreme Survival. Classic, of course, gives you that experience you're used to without any changes; Pure Survival implements 50% of the features presented in this video or any thatMojang adds; the Extreme Survival (Which is a requirement when you switch to Hardcore Mode) has all the features presented. I feel as if this is the way to go as it gives the player a choice. Also, I think that if copper tools were added, they should have special abilities that happen when the tools get struck by lighting.
"Carbon doesn't exist in Minecraft" bro has never heard of coal
There is no "carbon" item. That is very obviously what I meant...
This is exactly the reason, why I don't play Minecraft anymore. The exciting phase in the beginning is so damn short and once I have good gear I kind of lose interest.
I have one issue with the premise of your issue: Minecraft is not a survival game. Even though the gamemode is called survival, that's only because that's the core difference when going from creative. In actuality, Minecraft is an adventure game, where you explore unknown areas and find interesting environments and structures. Examples of real survival games would be Don't Starve or Darkest Dungeon. The point of Minecraft is not to struggle staying afloat, but it's to discover and make things your own
The beauty of Minecraft is that it can be whatever we want. Compared to alpha, it’s currently lacking a good survival experience so I’m happy to see someone working to make their own “real” survival.
I deeply agree with this. Survival mode is about as survival as microwaving ramen is making pasta. Adding more bars like thirst or stamina don't fix these issues. I've found myself stuck sometimes unable to progress past stone tools in multiplayer scenarios because there's no iron remaining in an area (we had an iron farm but I would have to go thousands of blocks out to find more ores) but at the same time I like to be left at the most basic tier surviving with basic tools exploring the world. It feels more rewarding sometimes to do choose to do that but without any focus on rewarding the player for going out of their way to do it is exactly what my problem is. I'm not gonna beat the ender dragon a million times and go out of my way to experience all of what minecraft has to offer ESPECIALLY since there's so little of it.
Yes.
Minecraft is more like a sanbox game but with certian limitations
A good example of survival game is Ark Survival Evolved when it first came out.
i don’t really get this take honestly. it’s almost as misdirected as the notion of survival minecraft being a sandbox game. it’s a survival rpg sandbox, with only the sandbox element and some later-stage rpg elements actually having been fleshed out. i don’t think anything all that aggressive really needs to be done to fix the early game progression, but one or two simple steps to just keep the player at stone tools for a little bit longer could go a long way.
crazy that this man fixed minecraft progression so well a lot of features are great i mean yeah there are some flaws like the missing enchanting and fishing but the new tools and the health from armor like that is actually really good i hope you will take your time for implementing more / new features
Fishing has its own, custom loot table in the server. Much more fair and balanced. It’s also like the only way to get prismarine blocks haha!
In terms of enchanting… I think that will be saved for the next video… :D
This is why making crafting takes 15 days to craft is possible solution
I am a plugin developer so I don't know exactly what you can do with datapacks. However it may be possible to add custom nbt tags on players, if you can do that then you can make certain items have requirements to use via custom player nbt.
I've never seen Minecraft as a Survival game. It's a Sandbox that has a Survival mode meant for your creativity over difficulty.
i always thought having a toolset you need before you can break trees is a cool idea; not being able to break trees with your fist
Remove wooden tools entirely because it doesn't make sense to chop a tree down with a WOODEN AXE. How about adding like little stone pieces you pick up off the ground then you can make a crude stone axe to chop down trees. It will be slower until you get enough materials until you build a grinder to upgrade from a crude stone axe to a sharp stone axe and then you have to upgrade your tools until your able to mine iron. Something like that.
I don't wanna read a wiki to craft something like terraria, that's just bad design
Brother… that’s literally Minecraft. How do you craft an observer without looking it up? Need I remind you that Minecraft would be nigh impossible without prior knowledge. The recipe book was only added YEARS after the game came out and it was ridiculously hard to remember all the things you had to do and craft.
Prior to ruined nether portals (and even with their existence, it’s still tough) how are you supposed to figure out a nether portal? You fucking couldn’t without prior knowledge
i think the early game can be extended and deeper (relatively) by simply making certain crafting recipes more complex and maybe open more ways for there to be crafting “progression” idk just something i thought abt
Honestly.
As Minecraft beta progressed, they turned Minecraft from Minecraft in to a mediocre at best RPG and mediocre at best survival game. I think trying to turn it in to a slightly less mediocre RPG or survival game is wrong headed, and the idea of simply extending the 'hobo' period of games has been tried by many mod authors and never really fixes the issue. I've seen it many times in minecraft modding and plenty in modding other games. You cannot fix the core gameplay by just making the period you have nothing to your name even longer. The issue persists. The moment you are no longer a hobo, the game is over. The act of gathering the gear was the gameplay and not using it. Woops!
I salute the yesteryear of tech mods that simply added nth level progression steps to everything. All forgotten.
Either there needs to be commitment to real things to do with gear or everyone needs to admit turning Minecraft in to a survival RPG in the firstplace was a mistake.
You're taking great steps towards making your own version of Minecraft, one that follows your vision of a better experience, and for that you have my congratulations and my respect. I do want to point out, however, that this alienates a hefty portion of the playerbase, and I believe you did well in warning potentially interested people that this would be a "brutal" experience. I love the simplicity and swiftness of those first 15 minutes in-game, simply because I love building. I love being able to make my little cozy corner on the map and expand my reach by making outposts, improved villages, pathways and roads...
My ideal Minecraft survival game is one that allows me to start doing just that from the get-go, and the current state of it is just what I like. Just to give you a fair example of what my approach to playing looks like, I follow a pretty simple cycle of gather-organize-build-explore. I gather as many resources as my inventory can hold, I organize them neatly and, as I require more space or my trips to some places become more usual, I build roads and storage vaults to hold my riches. Then, once I'm done categorizing my goods and embellishing my base, I go out and explore in search for new materials.
My most recent example of this was when I decided to build a caravan to live in, as I had leaned heavily into a farm aesthetic and I wanted to complete the look of my base with a traditional wagon that would serve as living quarters. I gathered as much wood and cloth as I could, I organized it in temporary chests, I started building until I needed new materials, and I got out to find them. In the way towards a dark forest where I had been extracting some wood, I realized that the path was kinda treacherous, and so I decided to spend the next 3 hours building a massive tunnel, bore through the mountain, big enough to make it seem as if my 11 block tall caravan had crossed it at some point (track marks included, of course) and had to go back to gathering!
If the initial progression didn't allow me to stack up on basic resources and building materials quickly, I would spend an unreasonable amount of time to build my very first outpost, which is simply not what I'm looking for in a game of Minecraft. I even build houses for my horses, dogs and cats, little cages for my parrots and fishtanks for axolotls. I used my first heavy core to simulate a ball in my dog's home!
Some players will find your version of Minecraft exactly what they were looking for, but I'm sorry to say that those players won't be me, or anyone who shares my vision of the game. Beat of luck, you're making something great here and I wish it meets huge success head on.
Thank you for understanding that this is my personal “fix” to Minecraft. I like games to be hard…. Brutally hard in ways that I can overcome. Not everyone is into that and I respect those who aren’t. Nobody’s version of Minecraft is objectively better than another
You say enchanting and villagers are too op but thats why i like having certain books being locked by exploring. I like making a little town with all the villagers i need and needing to grind emeralds.
It feels worth it and its a goal
You interested in the Villager rebalance?
I've thought about some ideas for enchanting. For one, you should be able to level up any enchanting you already have. You have Unbreaking 1? Cool, you can upgrade that to an Unbreaking 3. Next, in order to enchant an item you have to find an enchanting book for the spell in order to know the enchantment recipe. You can find some in mines, some in some dungeons, some from villagers, and some are in the enchantment table by default. Maybe a random amount, idk. After that, you might need to do some puzzle in order to unlock the spell, where in you're practicing the magic. But that could be more mod-y than a datapack could handle.
When you find an enchanted book, it has stuff written in it which describes the lore behind the enchantment, as well as what it does. You'll find the books in areas that'll make sense for them. Aquatic ones in the Underwater Guardian Temples, mining ones in mines, and whatever else really fits the others. Maybe the text will be unreadable until you get enough xp, then it'll be translated into whatever language you're on. Though that might be a headache to get done.
Maybe you can skip a few early levels of enchanting, but you'll probably just go one up after you either use the tool enough or find a new book, but I think just the book you have having the upgrades already works, you just need to wait to get them or something. Maybe the pages are hidden until you solve another puzzle, which is randomized, but has the same sort of rules for each enchantment spell. Or maybe you just wait to get a higher XP level. Like 10 for low level, 30 for second, and 100 for the higher level enchantments. You don't spend all of those levels, you just can't read the book until then or something.
Maybe you'll also have to sacrifice some items in order to upgrade the spell, I don't know. That one I'm really not sure about, but I'll hear what everyone thinks.
I don't think making minecraft more realistic is the solution here, the early game should make you feel helpless yes, BUT a lot of the ore changes are just unnecessary
I like the health change tho, some way of starting with and then ending with more health is good, I just feel like adding tedium into getting stone and iron is just- not the way to go, I mean, if you want that experience I think it's great for a mod, but not the base game
I think copper is a good candidate for a tier between iron and stone, it's more common than iron but obviously less common than stone, and copper legitimately has NO use early game, and even still after has no use
I know the devs don't wanna do it, but in my opinion, the jump between stone and iron feels TOO far, and the jump between iron and diamond is also really far, and there needs to be a tier between them too, (I'd say gold if ruined portals didn't exist)
I think you focused here too much on adding realism into the game to make it harder, but I think it'd be more minecraft to actually do the opposite, minecraft should be goofy and unrealistic
so here's my idea for minecraft progression in full
1
make leather more common, cows should drop more of it, and hide should be usable as leather. This way leather armor is easier and more accessable to get
1 1/2
add an item like the gem hearts in terraria allowing you to get 10 hearts max, and add another kind of item that's harder to get that increases your health to 20 hearts, this way you add more to both the early and midgame
2
copper should be a tier between iron and stone, and chainmail will stay rare and stay at it's current strength (you'll see why)
3
between iron and diamond we add some kind of alloy, I think rosegold would be fun because I like that color, crafted with gold and copper
4
and then diamond/netherite is the baseline tier for endgame, this is where split horizontal progression starts
5
there's 3 classes that already fit into minecraft's damage types/weapons and that's a melee class, an archer/hunter class, and a mage class, so lets create 3 armor sets for each
using chainmail armor, leather armor, and netherite armor, you can create a knight's armor set, this will scale up all your melee damage, especially that of swords, this also is the strongest armor set defense wise, stronger than diamond/netherite
using diamonds, emeralds, and lapis you can create some sort of magic bar, (I'm not good at naming things) and with those bars you can craft a mage armor set, increasing all magic damage (ofc, adding more magic weapons into the game) and giving you a little sentry when the full set is worn, this set provides a similar amount of DR as diamonds do currently
Then using redstone and diamonds with leather armor, you can craft some sort of archery set, which will increase the damage and speed of all projectiles thrown, and provide complete silence when walking, which allows you to not be detected by mobs unless seen (I don't think mobs can hear you, the only one that can I think is the warden, extending sound alertedness to other mobs should also be done)
I know making leather more common makes max enchantment tables easier to get, but since good enchantments require level 30 or more I think it's fine, not that enchanting should stay the same, but levels being required to enchant makes more common bookcases not a big deal
by this point mobs would be hella easy to deal with as well so adding some extra bosses and other gameplay progression should also be done as well
I agree about leather armor. It's pretty difficult to get a hold of it in the game so people always get iron armor as their first set because there is no incentive to get leather. You have to find cows and caves are much quicker to find making leather armor useless unless you spawn near a village with it or have tons of cows spawn next to you
I really like this approach, every step of the progression makes sense. Although it changes minecraft to its core, the hearth system etc, also it adds too many garbage items that could be summarized and the cauldron system is even more complex than brewing stands that already require checking a wiki to known the potions. Overall is a good idea but it has obvious flaws
I think that instead of the armor giving more life, an item would be better, like an amulet, that would require some of the "magical items" like gold, lapiz, amethist, flowers, and we could expand this to other aspects like more strenght, haste, speed, night vision, etc.
I am currently playing through a sky block world. It’s brutal only having access to iron through zombies. That experience made me appreciate the default progression on a normal world. Stone and wood tools are just no fun to use. They break blocks too slowly and shatter after a stack or a stack and a half of mining. I would rather spend my time mining or building than constantly recrafting trash tools that break blocks at a subpar speed.
I rarely play Minecraft as a survival game. For me it’s more of a building game with the occasional action adventure elements with the bonus of being able to create farms and factories through redstone and abused game mechanics.
I play Skyblock for the added challenge and slower progression so I am willing to sit through the boring moments for the sense of accomplishment. When I play regular survival I am not playing for challenge or to survive, but to build and thrive. The early game grind just slows down my ambition and goals.
Your implementation feels more like a game mode that is dedicated to the challenge and thus has a different set of expectations going into the mode. I respect it in that context, but I would never want this to become the default experience. I would hate playing new worlds or servers if I had to slog through the early game just to do the things I actually want to do. I do like how you increased the durability of the tools, but I feel all the extra items added would be a little annoying simply because Minecraft already has a massive inventory problem. Maybe if stack sizes were increased by 2X or 4X then that would fix that headache. Though that is another issue entirely.
if stone tools use flint then why are they less efficient than copper
I actually LOVE the idea of smelting metals together to make better metals, but the reason most games (MMORPGs & mobile games) start with rapid progression & little to no sense of imminent failure & punishment is because a lot of people just plain quit immediately if challenged. Being anti-risk is a common human trait that disincentivizes things like eating spicy food, gambling, dating questionable men, touching hot things, avoiding drugs & alcohol, & not jumping off roofs. Developers know this & reward gamers with rapid progression in early game, which makes the body create addictive dopamine hormones that give people a natural high.
do you plan on making this into a mod at some point?
i cant really play on servers because i live in autralia and ping to us servers is unplayable
This plugin isn't my sort of thing, but I can totally see where you're coming from with these changes. I might try it. I'm more of a builder and intrinsicly motivated, so I'm interested to see how my playstyle would work here.
"why have it at all?"
for custom maps? so people don't have to retexture stone sword to look it's made from wood
one thing i wanna say is, if we see minecraft's progression from a casual player's view, i don't think it's that bad. in a way, the ability to go from wood to iron in 2 minutes isn't hidden behind a trial of some sort, it's hidden behind knowledge. i know a good amount of players who would get stuck in wood tools for 3 hours, then 5 whole days in stone if it wasn't for the fact that im playing with them, and the fact that i know that you can get diamond in the first hour or so. the knowledge i have of the game is what gives me the advantage. most people don't even realise that, to get stone, you can just mine 4 blocks down. they wanna find a cave instead of just mining your first tree and inmediately mining down. and that's fine. that's what separates an experienced player from a casual player in minecraft.
I think I have some more reasonable changes, for one Copper Armor and tools should be added as a prerequisite to get iron, chainmail should be craftable with chains, and chainmail and leather armor should have the ability to be combined as was planned many years ago to act as a stop-gap that’s as strong as diamond while being less durable and having less enchanting potential.