Hi, it has been a few years since you made this video and I have just discovered it while trying to determine if there was modern ammo for a Remington Label. The Remington I think is produced for the Balle D ammo which means the later Balle N cartridge is just too powerful for the rifle. You said that this modern PPU ammo is made to the Balle D spec. Are you very sure about this? I am wanting to shoot my Remington Lebel, so if you are sure about this, then I will try it out. Thanks for your excellent video!
Of course the PPU load is not identical to the Ball D loading as it has a "cup & core" bullet instead of a solid brass bullet. Cup and core bullets generate less chamber pressure than a solid brass bullet as they are more easily engraved by the rifling. The issue, as I understand it, is that the Ball N load required a different throat in the barrel due to the heaver bullet which had a different shape. The PPU load should be fine in any 8mm Lebel rifle/carbine that is in good condition. If I had a Lebel I would not hesitate to use the PPU ammo in it. Remember that PPU makes this stuff for the civilian market and wants it to be usable in as many guns as possible.
Actually, I have been to a couple of reloading forums since I made the comment above. The guys there confirm that the PPU is a load that will not stress out the Remington Lebels. It is, as you say, not strictly speaking Balle D; but, it is compatible. So thanks for your video and information. :) @@314299
I understand the ring around the primer but have to wonder if that will weaken the primer pocket. May not be an issue depending on case life of 5 to 8 uses.
What would you reload these with for a standard ball load? Something like a 200 grain bullet with 46 grains of IMR 3031 is what I can find as my only semi reliable data. Seems to be almost no data existent on this round.
I wonder if that's the same fmj projectile ppu uses for their mauser loads. It would make sense, I'd imagine ppu sells a lot more 8mm mauser than they do 8mm lebel.
I did! Screw that guy, though; I can't get over him blowing up a perfectly serviceable Ross Rifle. Wanton and destructive vandalism. They aren't making those anymore! >:-|
SamEEE12 the guy as saved more than enough old forgotten firearm to have the right to do a destructive demonstration. And it was at the beginning of is channel.
Good video and now know where to go for the Lebel ammo i was chasing !!! Only knock is wish you did your measuring in standard metric opposed to outdated US imperial...:)
Outdated? Nope. All my reloading manuals are in Avoirdupois/Imperial units, even the newest ones. These systems are still quite a popular measurement system in the remaining free(ish) parts of the world. Conversion to the International System of Units is easily accomplished by computer for those who have troubles understanding old, traditional measures.
Hi, I acquired an 1886 Lebel when I was deployed to Afghanistan. I've completely disassembled every part of the trigger and bolt and thoroughly cleaned and oiled it. I got some PPU bullets and I'm ready to fire it. Is there anything else I need to check before I fire it? I don't want it blowing in my face. Thanks!
If everything looks good and the bolt number matches the receiver you are probably good to go. Ideally you would have the headspace checked out by a gunsmith, but finding one with 8mm Lebel headspace gauges is going to be difficult.
How does 8mm Lebel compare to the Mauser in terms of velocity, power and recoil? You should do a chronograph test. I left out accuracy because that most depends on the shooter, but feel free to add it if you deem it relevant. Anyways that’s probably the weirdest round I’ve ever seen. I though that 7,62 Russian was weird due to its rimmed shape, but 8mm Lebel makes it look rimless by comparison. It looks like a pyramid.
Yes, the Lebel round is weird looking, which is not surprising since it is basically a necked down 11mm Gras black powder case. PPU gives this 200 grain load a velocity rating of 2297. Original 198 gr "Balle D" is rated at 2400 fps, so the PPU load is a bit milder than the original load. 8mm Mauser loads with the similar 198 grain bullet are a bit faster at 2600 fps. At some point I hope to cronograph some of this ammo to see how it performs compared to the published specifications.
@@314299Interesting. According to Ian from Forgotten Weapons, he says that the Balle D had a muzzle velocity of 700 mts/sec or 2297 ft/s. I wonder if it's shot from a Lebel or a Berthier. See "French Ammo Forgotten Weapons" for more. Most 8mm mauser ammo is anemic, but the S&B matches the specs you mentioned.
Ballistic Coefficient is 0.568. This ammo works great in either rifle Lebel or Berthier - made me want to wear a kepi & have some peanut butter & baguette
I was surprised that they did not go with a "standard" 8mm bullet of .323", after all PPU loads a .264" bullet in their 6.5 Carcano when it actually needs a .266" bullet.
Thank goodness for PPU.
Yes those of us who like the old surplus stuff would be in a tough sport without them.
Hi, it has been a few years since you made this video and I have just discovered it while trying to determine if there was modern ammo for a Remington Label. The Remington I think is produced for the Balle D ammo which means the later Balle N cartridge is just too powerful for the rifle.
You said that this modern PPU ammo is made to the Balle D spec. Are you very sure about this?
I am wanting to shoot my Remington Lebel, so if you are sure about this, then I will try it out.
Thanks for your excellent video!
Of course the PPU load is not identical to the Ball D loading as it has a "cup & core" bullet instead of a solid brass bullet. Cup and core bullets generate less chamber pressure than a solid brass bullet as they are more easily engraved by the rifling. The issue, as I understand it, is that the Ball N load required a different throat in the barrel due to the heaver bullet which had a different shape. The PPU load should be fine in any 8mm Lebel rifle/carbine that is in good condition. If I had a Lebel I would not hesitate to use the PPU ammo in it. Remember that PPU makes this stuff for the civilian market and wants it to be usable in as many guns as possible.
Actually, I have been to a couple of reloading forums since I made the comment above. The guys there confirm that the PPU is a load that will not stress out the Remington Lebels. It is, as you say, not strictly speaking Balle D; but, it is compatible. So thanks for your video and information.
:)
@@314299
Lebel cruise missile. Looks like a nice match style bullet!
Glad they started producing the earlier cartridge style.
Yeah it's nice to see some proper type brass.
Thanks for the info i just bought a berthier forestry carbine.
I understand the ring around the primer but have to wonder if that will weaken the primer pocket. May not be an issue depending on case life of 5 to 8 uses.
What would you reload these with for a standard ball load? Something like a 200 grain bullet with 46 grains of IMR 3031 is what I can find as my only semi reliable data. Seems to be almost no data existent on this round.
I know this is an old video, but did you ever get around to trying the ammunition? Thank you
Actually no I have not as I need a clip for my Berthier rifle.
I wonder if that's the same fmj projectile ppu uses for their mauser loads. It would make sense, I'd imagine ppu sells a lot more 8mm mauser than they do 8mm lebel.
They list the 8mm Mauser FMJBT load as a 198 grain, not 200, so most likely slightly different.
Ian of forgotten weapon just did a video about the 1886 Lebel.
Do you suppose anyone will make a comment on his video to tell people about my video?
314299 Shooting Channel I suppose its already done.
314299 Shooting Channel Lol
I did! Screw that guy, though; I can't get over him blowing up a perfectly serviceable Ross Rifle. Wanton and destructive vandalism. They aren't making those anymore! >:-|
SamEEE12 the guy as saved more than enough old forgotten firearm to have the right to do a destructive demonstration. And it was at the beginning of is channel.
Also you know if it'll fit in the 1886 lebel rifles that isn't ball N Marked because the Surplus will not fit in the chamber
It should fit the unmodified original chamber.
Good video and now know where to go for the Lebel ammo i was chasing !!!
Only knock is wish you did your measuring in standard metric opposed to outdated US imperial...:)
Outdated? Nope. All my reloading manuals are in Avoirdupois/Imperial units, even the newest ones. These systems are still quite a popular measurement system in the remaining free(ish) parts of the world. Conversion to the International System of Units is easily accomplished by computer for those who have troubles understanding old, traditional measures.
Hopefully new videos soon .But probably just as cold there as hear n the states
It's been a cold winter so far.
Hi, I acquired an 1886 Lebel when I was deployed to Afghanistan. I've completely disassembled every part of the trigger and bolt and thoroughly cleaned and oiled it. I got some PPU bullets and I'm ready to fire it. Is there anything else I need to check before I fire it? I don't want it blowing in my face. Thanks!
If everything looks good and the bolt number matches the receiver you are probably good to go. Ideally you would have the headspace checked out by a gunsmith, but finding one with 8mm Lebel headspace gauges is going to be difficult.
@@314299 ok thanks... I'm thinking of securing the rifle on a rifle sled and using a string pulling the trigger from safe distance.
How does 8mm Lebel compare to the Mauser in terms of velocity, power and recoil? You should do a chronograph test.
I left out accuracy because that most depends on the shooter, but feel free to add it if you deem it relevant.
Anyways that’s probably the weirdest round I’ve ever seen. I though that 7,62 Russian was weird due to its rimmed shape, but 8mm Lebel makes it look rimless by comparison. It looks like a pyramid.
Yes, the Lebel round is weird looking, which is not surprising since it is basically a necked down 11mm Gras black powder case.
PPU gives this 200 grain load a velocity rating of 2297. Original 198 gr "Balle D" is rated at 2400 fps, so the PPU load is a bit milder than the original load. 8mm Mauser loads with the similar 198 grain bullet are a bit faster at 2600 fps.
At some point I hope to cronograph some of this ammo to see how it performs compared to the published specifications.
@@314299Interesting. According to Ian from Forgotten Weapons, he says that the Balle D had a muzzle velocity of 700 mts/sec or 2297 ft/s. I wonder if it's shot from a Lebel or a Berthier. See "French Ammo Forgotten Weapons" for more.
Most 8mm mauser ammo is anemic, but the S&B matches the specs you mentioned.
Ballistic Coefficient is 0.568. This ammo works great in either rifle Lebel or Berthier - made me want to wear a kepi & have some peanut butter & baguette
That BC is pretty impressive.
great video, Thanks
Glad you like it. I hope to go and shoot some of this ammo soon.
So can you full length size these or just neck size. Double tapered sizing die?
You can do either. Full length dies have the double taper in them to restore the round to original profile.
How much was it per box?
$49 a box.
314299 Shooting Channel $49 CAD or USD?
I have the older style of brass :)
Does not matter much to those of us who have no Lebel rifles.
yeah who wants that outdated crap :D
I am from ex yougoslavia more precisaly from todays croatia
Yeah 8mm lebel is 326 dia bullets lol
I was surprised that they did not go with a "standard" 8mm bullet of .323", after all PPU loads a .264" bullet in their 6.5 Carcano when it actually needs a .266" bullet.
314299 Shooting Channel odd